Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

The mood in former Soviet states – politicalbetting.com

1456810

Comments

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,021
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Has anybody seen anything out of the Swiss re sanctions so far? Whilst the UK is a big player re Russian money it would help if the Swiss also clamped down or does their “neutrality” supersede this?

    Also would be helpful if Greece and Turkey put pressure on their halves of Cyprus as a huge hub for Russian money and corporate structures along with Malta and Montenegro.

    German banking is interesting to look at as well.
    Well yes. Just this morning I turned down a project where the client was a Russian national using Commerzbank to hold ridiculous amounts of funds and I cannot tell you the sizes I’ve seen sitting at Deutsche in Frankfurt over the last few years.
    I have seen some data in the past.....

    When DB finally goes down, it's going to do to German politics what the Italian scandals did there - wipe out all the usual suspects.....
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,942
    Has anybody commented that today is palindromic and an ambigram - 2022022.
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,469

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Applicant said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So now that Russia are the official baddies can we now have publication of the report into their meddling in our affairs? Surely we can all then collectively boo Putin and put right the damage he has done...

    Do you mean this report published in July 2020?

    https://isc.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/CCS207_CCS0221966010-001_Russia-Report-v02-Web_Accessible.pdf
    No, that is the limited ISC one that urged Downing Street to order a full enquiry and implement a framework to protect us from future attacks. Big Dog refused. We need the proper report that the ISC says we need to investigate Russian meddling in elections and referendums which Downing Street refuses to look at.

    Why is Big Dog afraid of investigating Russia? Aren't they now the big bad who need to be Stopped? How can we stop them if he won't even look at it? Especially when the limited report showed meddling in the Scottish Independence vote - its totally logical to assume further meddling in the Brexit vote and both of the rerun elections of 2017 and 2019.

    Here is the reality. The Tories take a lot of money from Russians. The Tories benefited from Russian state meddling in our democratic processes. The Tories say Russia is bad but are happy to take their money and their assistance because the Tories are brazenly corrupt.

    So take everything the Big Dog says about Russia with a pinch of salt. They are his mates.
    Do the Tories take Russian money though? I keep hearing this trotted out - is there any evidence of it? I'm tempted to treat this with a pinch of salt, like the Russia-interfered-in-the-2016-US-election meme. It seems on the face if it unlikely. And if so, money from which Russians? Money from the Russian state, or from their fugitives?
    I concede that it also seemed unlikely that Barry Gardiner was taking money from China, or that apparently everyone is taking money from Qatar.
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/quarter-boris-johnsons-cabinet-took-25123091

    That's one report. There are others. Temerko himself came to a hustings in Stockton South in 2015 to see what his money was being spent on.

    If the government are serious about going after Russian money and influence to deter Putin, it would be a good start to stop taking Russian money and influence themselves.
    Temerko is a British citizen.
    Yes, and? Abramovich manages to be Israeli, Portuguese and Russian. Does each new nationality wipe a little more of his background away?

    Your argument is truly in bad faith.
    Yes, yes it does. That's the whole point of allowing people to acquire nationality.

    Unless you're a blood and soil racist.
    You're an absurdity on this front. Nationality does not supersede intent nor does it wash away uncomfortable backgrounds.

    'Blood and soil racist' come on Phil. Some of us wonder where Russian energy moguls acquired their wealth.

    https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-01-12/owner-of-tory-donor-company-chaired-firm-linked-to-russian-corruption-allegations

    As we have a right to when they are donating millions to the Conservative party.

    Don't you see what has happened to the Russian state over the decades? Would you like aspects of it to appear here?
    Sorry but this is nasty racism and xenophobia.

    Do you accept that people who emigrate here and take citizenship here are real British citizens?

    Or are they second class people with aspersions to be cast upon based upon where they were born?

    Either you accept immigrants who've taken up a life and citizenship here or you don't. If Temerko is Russian to you, you're no better than the National Front.
    I am asking:

    Where did his wealth come from and why is he giving such a lot of it to the Conservative Party?

    That he is a citizen has no bearing on these questions. And does not excuse anyone of actions under another passport.

    (Can you argue more than one angle? Because you seem to have prepared heuristics that you beat the conversation down to. Not a man of nuances Mr Roberts)
    He's the director of a British company and has been holding high positions in businesses for decades now.

    What evidence do you have of dodgy money other than racism? Is it news to you that directors of successful businesses might be wealthy?
    Someone on the payroll then
    You mean like Alex Salmond at RT?

    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/
    Cretinous
    That's way below your usual standard of invective.

    C--

    Try harder.
    Seems pretty par for the course. Malcolm is a perfect example of a Nationalist thug, except that instead of throwing rocks through fellow Scots' windows he frequently haunts a political site where he has no hope of engaging in articulate debate because he has zero capability in debating, which makes him amusing, though not in a way that he would like. I suppose the one thing you can say for Salmond is that though he is reputed (by his own QC) to be a sex pest and a bully he is/was pretty articulate unlike his thuggish followers. We can also add No1 Useful idiot to Putin to his dubious CV.

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Applicant said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So now that Russia are the official baddies can we now have publication of the report into their meddling in our affairs? Surely we can all then collectively boo Putin and put right the damage he has done...

    Do you mean this report published in July 2020?

    https://isc.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/CCS207_CCS0221966010-001_Russia-Report-v02-Web_Accessible.pdf
    No, that is the limited ISC one that urged Downing Street to order a full enquiry and implement a framework to protect us from future attacks. Big Dog refused. We need the proper report that the ISC says we need to investigate Russian meddling in elections and referendums which Downing Street refuses to look at.

    Why is Big Dog afraid of investigating Russia? Aren't they now the big bad who need to be Stopped? How can we stop them if he won't even look at it? Especially when the limited report showed meddling in the Scottish Independence vote - its totally logical to assume further meddling in the Brexit vote and both of the rerun elections of 2017 and 2019.

    Here is the reality. The Tories take a lot of money from Russians. The Tories benefited from Russian state meddling in our democratic processes. The Tories say Russia is bad but are happy to take their money and their assistance because the Tories are brazenly corrupt.

    So take everything the Big Dog says about Russia with a pinch of salt. They are his mates.
    Do the Tories take Russian money though? I keep hearing this trotted out - is there any evidence of it? I'm tempted to treat this with a pinch of salt, like the Russia-interfered-in-the-2016-US-election meme. It seems on the face if it unlikely. And if so, money from which Russians? Money from the Russian state, or from their fugitives?
    I concede that it also seemed unlikely that Barry Gardiner was taking money from China, or that apparently everyone is taking money from Qatar.
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/quarter-boris-johnsons-cabinet-took-25123091

    That's one report. There are others. Temerko himself came to a hustings in Stockton South in 2015 to see what his money was being spent on.

    If the government are serious about going after Russian money and influence to deter Putin, it would be a good start to stop taking Russian money and influence themselves.
    Temerko is a British citizen.
    Yes, and? Abramovich manages to be Israeli, Portuguese and Russian. Does each new nationality wipe a little more of his background away?

    Your argument is truly in bad faith.
    Yes, yes it does. That's the whole point of allowing people to acquire nationality.

    Unless you're a blood and soil racist.
    You're an absurdity on this front. Nationality does not supersede intent nor does it wash away uncomfortable backgrounds.

    'Blood and soil racist' come on Phil. Some of us wonder where Russian energy moguls acquired their wealth.

    https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-01-12/owner-of-tory-donor-company-chaired-firm-linked-to-russian-corruption-allegations

    As we have a right to when they are donating millions to the Conservative party.

    Don't you see what has happened to the Russian state over the decades? Would you like aspects of it to appear here?
    Sorry but this is nasty racism and xenophobia.

    Do you accept that people who emigrate here and take citizenship here are real British citizens?

    Or are they second class people with aspersions to be cast upon based upon where they were born?

    Either you accept immigrants who've taken up a life and citizenship here or you don't. If Temerko is Russian to you, you're no better than the National Front.
    I am asking:

    Where did his wealth come from and why is he giving such a lot of it to the Conservative Party?

    That he is a citizen has no bearing on these questions. And does not excuse anyone of actions under another passport.

    (Can you argue more than one angle? Because you seem to have prepared heuristics that you beat the conversation down to. Not a man of nuances Mr Roberts)
    He's the director of a British company and has been holding high positions in businesses for decades now.

    What evidence do you have of dodgy money other than racism? Is it news to you that directors of successful businesses might be wealthy?
    Someone on the payroll then
    You mean like Alex Salmond at RT?

    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/
    Cretinous
    That's way below your usual standard of invective.

    C--

    Try harder.
    Seems pretty par for the course. Malcolm is a perfect example of a Nationalist thug, except that instead of throwing rocks through fellow Scots' windows he frequently haunts a political site where he has no hope of engaging in articulate debate because he has zero capability in debating, which makes him amusing, though not in a way that he would like. I suppose the one thing you can say for Salmond is that though he is reputed (by his own QC) to be a sex pest and a bully he is/was pretty articulate unlike his thuggish followers. We can also add No1 Useful idiot to Putin to his dubious CV.

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Applicant said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So now that Russia are the official baddies can we now have publication of the report into their meddling in our affairs? Surely we can all then collectively boo Putin and put right the damage he has done...

    Do you mean this report published in July 2020?

    https://isc.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/CCS207_CCS0221966010-001_Russia-Report-v02-Web_Accessible.pdf
    No, that is the limited ISC one that urged Downing Street to order a full enquiry and implement a framework to protect us from future attacks. Big Dog refused. We need the proper report that the ISC says we need to investigate Russian meddling in elections and referendums which Downing Street refuses to look at.

    Why is Big Dog afraid of investigating Russia? Aren't they now the big bad who need to be Stopped? How can we stop them if he won't even look at it? Especially when the limited report showed meddling in the Scottish Independence vote - its totally logical to assume further meddling in the Brexit vote and both of the rerun elections of 2017 and 2019.

    Here is the reality. The Tories take a lot of money from Russians. The Tories benefited from Russian state meddling in our democratic processes. The Tories say Russia is bad but are happy to take their money and their assistance because the Tories are brazenly corrupt.

    So take everything the Big Dog says about Russia with a pinch of salt. They are his mates.
    Do the Tories take Russian money though? I keep hearing this trotted out - is there any evidence of it? I'm tempted to treat this with a pinch of salt, like the Russia-interfered-in-the-2016-US-election meme. It seems on the face if it unlikely. And if so, money from which Russians? Money from the Russian state, or from their fugitives?
    I concede that it also seemed unlikely that Barry Gardiner was taking money from China, or that apparently everyone is taking money from Qatar.
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/quarter-boris-johnsons-cabinet-took-25123091

    That's one report. There are others. Temerko himself came to a hustings in Stockton South in 2015 to see what his money was being spent on.

    If the government are serious about going after Russian money and influence to deter Putin, it would be a good start to stop taking Russian money and influence themselves.
    Temerko is a British citizen.
    Yes, and? Abramovich manages to be Israeli, Portuguese and Russian. Does each new nationality wipe a little more of his background away?

    Your argument is truly in bad faith.
    Yes, yes it does. That's the whole point of allowing people to acquire nationality.

    Unless you're a blood and soil racist.
    You're an absurdity on this front. Nationality does not supersede intent nor does it wash away uncomfortable backgrounds.

    'Blood and soil racist' come on Phil. Some of us wonder where Russian energy moguls acquired their wealth.

    https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-01-12/owner-of-tory-donor-company-chaired-firm-linked-to-russian-corruption-allegations

    As we have a right to when they are donating millions to the Conservative party.

    Don't you see what has happened to the Russian state over the decades? Would you like aspects of it to appear here?
    Sorry but this is nasty racism and xenophobia.

    Do you accept that people who emigrate here and take citizenship here are real British citizens?

    Or are they second class people with aspersions to be cast upon based upon where they were born?

    Either you accept immigrants who've taken up a life and citizenship here or you don't. If Temerko is Russian to you, you're no better than the National Front.
    I am asking:

    Where did his wealth come from and why is he giving such a lot of it to the Conservative Party?

    That he is a citizen has no bearing on these questions. And does not excuse anyone of actions under another passport.

    (Can you argue more than one angle? Because you seem to have prepared heuristics that you beat the conversation down to. Not a man of nuances Mr Roberts)
    He's the director of a British company and has been holding high positions in businesses for decades now.

    What evidence do you have of dodgy money other than racism? Is it news to you that directors of successful businesses might be wealthy?
    Someone on the payroll then
    You mean like Alex Salmond at RT?

    https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/
    Cretinous
    That's way below your usual standard of invective.

    C--

    Try harder.
    Seems pretty par for the course. Malcolm is a perfect example of a Nationalist thug, except that instead of throwing rocks through fellow Scots' windows he frequently haunts a political site where he has no hope of engaging in articulate debate because he has zero capability in debating, which makes him amusing, though not in a way that he would like. I suppose the one thing you can say for Salmond is that though he is reputed (by his own QC) to be a sex pest and a bully he is/was pretty articulate unlike his thuggish followers. We can also add No1 Useful idiot to Putin to his dubious CV.
    I quite like Malcolm.

    He’s never rude to me.
    Perhaps you have never said anything vaguely critical of Salmond or Scottish Nationalism. He is a vile and rude little man, but then what should one expect from the number 1 fanboy of someone as repulsive as Salmond?
    Malc's been rude to me but I still quite like him. Strange, dunno why?

    Salmond? Everyone knew what he was like, certainly Sturgeon will have done, but his chutzpah and indispensability pre-IndyRef, kept him safely in place. One of the ironies is the Nicola holier-than-thou act, given the way so many women were so badly let down by the whole avoidable Salmond charade which she, effectively, tolerated. And given her status as THE powerful woman in ScotGov, must have made so much more difficult for other women to challenge.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    I always knew this French punning contest would fizzle out - not so much a Bayonne as a Quimper.....

    Any more of that and you'll be taken away in the back of a Vannes.
    Sounds rather Vichy.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,434
    Decent bit of trolling from the US Embassy.
    Not very diplomatic.
    https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKyiv/status/1496115593149358081
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,236
    Polruan said:

    I always knew this French punning contest would fizzle out - not so much a Bayonne as a Quimper.....

    You're on your Rhône now.
    Loire having a laugh.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,639
    LDLF said:

    TOPPING said:

    Who is a Russia watcher on here. Is there any world in which Russia has legitimate claims to The Ukraine.

    Keep it short and to the point here pls.

    tia

    No.

    But, outside the legitimate worldview, a Russian nationalist might claim that it was always part of their fantasy 'greater Russia' and would place great cultural importance to it, and no doubt Putin is playing on this emotional attachment.

    Russia in the early Middle Ages had its capital in Kiev, and Kievan Rus was, by the standards of the day, relatively progressive and decentralised. Then the Mongols invaded, and ever since, Moscow became the centre of power and centralised autocracy the order of the day. As has already been said Kiev was for centuries part of Lithuania, later in personal union with Poland, until Catherine the Great's Russia partitioned it in the late 18th century.
    tyvm
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,942
    slade said:

    Has anybody commented that today is palindromic and an ambigram - 2022022.

    The next will be Feb 8th 2080.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    THOSE WHO ARE FRIENDS AND APOLOGISTS OF THE AGGRESSOR ARE ALSO THE AGGRESSOR.

    All sort of tough painful Decisions to be made today, for a range of governments and other organisations to prove, rather than say, they oppose Mad Vlad’s aggression (not just the tanks on someone else’s sovereign land, but his disgraceful remarks threatening everybody in his crazed address)

    Gazprom feature heavily, as it’s four of their pipelines which now should not be used, but also they should be cut off from UEFA completely and champions league final moved. Ditto F1 have to take action pronto, strip Putin of his race and look at the funding from his regime.

    Boris needs to do 2 things to prove he is serious, he needs to be vocal that Nord cannot be used by Europe, not just announce our sanctions today but speak up and say Gazprom/Putin pipelines cannot be used, but also be more straight with us that what he is calling for does impact us, as where UK gets it’s Gas must now have heavy competition for it, Boris already got off to a bad start today talking spin and bollocks about this part to the British People. He can’t try to make out the sanctions and counter sanctions won’t hurt us, he needs to be straight with us about this.

    Western Europe (not the UK - we get most of our gas from North Sea and Norway) can't stop using Russian gas altogether. Going... er.. cold turkey would stuff a fair number of countries.

    Not using Nord Stream 2 is the key - it is designed so that Russia can send gas to Western Europe, while cutting off the Near Abroad (aka the bits Russia wants to steal back). So if it goes into operation, Putin can play off Western and Eastern Europe.

    Sounds like the German government is pausing that, according to a report in the Independent.
    It sounds also that Germany is getting serious about changing the longer term direction of energy policy, too.
    While that won't make any immediate impact, it could significantly reduce dependency on Russian gas over time.
    Germany keeping the nuclear plants running, at least until there’s other sources of electricity to replace them, might be a reasonable starting point.
    Everyone getting their arses in gear with the deployment of renewables would also be a good idea, both for the climate and for geopolitical stability. Enough of the foot dragging.
    With a supportive government, we could have 8-10 tidal power stations on stream by the early 2030's, many of them starting partial production sooner. Each when complete the energy output of a Sizewell C. Popular. Creating 80,000 jobs in the process. And dependable electricity for centuries to come, at a fraction of the cost of nuclear. Without the waste along the way, without the risk of Chernobyl/Fukushima disaster along the way, without the massive costs of dismantling them at the end of their useful life.

    C'mon Boris, you said you supported them on your hustings tour of Wales. Now deliver them. That is the sharpest kick you can give to Putin's shins.
    Have you tried bribing somebody? I'm joking but I'm not.
    Sadly, new industries don't have the sort of money to out-compete with nuclear....
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760

    boulay said:

    Has anybody seen anything out of the Swiss re sanctions so far? Whilst the UK is a big player re Russian money it would help if the Swiss also clamped down or does their “neutrality” supersede this?

    Also would be helpful if Greece and Turkey put pressure on their halves of Cyprus as a huge hub for Russian money and corporate structures along with Malta and Montenegro.

    German banking is interesting to look at as well.
    Some people were talking up barrage of sanctions making Putin think twice or at least a strong punishment a few weeks ago. I think you are nailing in that post why sanctions been such a weak response in the past, too easily by passed. Not enough uniting as one, reacting firm as one.
  • Options
    Polruan said:

    I always knew this French punning contest would fizzle out - not so much a Bayonne as a Quimper.....

    You're on your Rhône now.
    No, we Caen keep this going for hours.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Decent bit of trolling from the US Embassy.
    Not very diplomatic.
    https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKyiv/status/1496115593149358081

    Weird flex that the country (capital) peaked a thousand years ago, but OK.
  • Options
    "Shares in Russia's two biggest banks have gone up, after the UK government left them out of sanctions."
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209
    The one thing that I don't get amidst all the Russian strategic planning is: why go now? Why not wait a few more years, until NordStream2 was a thing?

    What's the rush?
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,567
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Who is a Russia watcher on here. Is there any world in which Russia has legitimate claims to The Ukraine.

    Keep it short and to the point here pls.

    tia

    No.*
    And "The Ukraine" is Putin's preferred term, not Ukraine's.

    *well there is the world in which you get what you demand by overwhelming force.
    Although of course when speaking Russian he can say no such thing.

    The Ukrainian argument is based on English usage, not Russian or Ukrainian, neither of which languages have articles.

    The argument is that as you do not generally use the word "the" to refer to countries in English, if you do so it makes it sound like a geographical area rather than a country.
    Generally being the operative word there.
    There have always been a smattering, though over time they have fallen out of fashion. 'The Argentine' is the only other one which springs to mind in the vaguely modern era.

    Not many articles attached to geographical areas either - the one which springs to mind is 'The Wirral'.

    On a similar note, am I right that we have now started calling the capital city Kyiv rather than Kiev because the former is Ukrainian and the latter is Russian? If so, it isn't the only place where we call a city by the language its inhabitants don't use. In particular, we often seem to use French where the locals do not (e.g. we call it Bruges, as the French do, whereas the locals call it Brugge; we call it Basle, as the French do, while locals call it Basel.)

    Interestingly, I think both German and French speakers refer to Switzerland with a definite article: Der Schweiz and La Suisse. In German, at least, it is not standard to do this to a country.

    Also while I'm on about it: why does the Hague have a definite article?
    And also why you're on about it what's up with street and road.

    The Balls Pond Road and Carnaby Street as examples. Why is one "the" and the other not.
    My theory is that roads which are named after their destination take the article, effectively "the road to Balls Pond". Streets don't normally go anywhere and are more purely intra-urban in nature.

    The Hague is a direct translation, Den Hague or 's-Gravenhage, The (Count's) Hedge although haag probably means something more like enclosure or fortification in this context.
    Only in London though. The Edgware Road, the Gloucester Road. You don't get that anywhere else. The Stockport Road, The Oldham Road? No.
    That would explain my Liverpool Road.
    The East Lancs, mind.
    How about the Scottie Road?
    Indeed. And there's the Scotswood Road in Newcastle, too. And Westgate Road. Known as the West Road.
    Maybe it's just local habits?
    The coast road.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Polruan said:

    I always knew this French punning contest would fizzle out - not so much a Bayonne as a Quimper.....

    You're on your Rhône now.
    No, we Caen keep this going for hours.
    You Le Mans!
  • Options

    "Shares in Russia's two biggest banks have gone up, after the UK government left them out of sanctions."

    Interesting that anyone cares!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,021

    The one thing that I don't get amidst all the Russian strategic planning is: why go now? Why not wait a few more years, until NordStream2 was a thing?

    What's the rush?

    Putin's internal political position? Maybe his health? Maybe his age?
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    The one thing that I don't get amidst all the Russian strategic planning is: why go now? Why not wait a few more years, until NordStream2 was a thing?

    What's the rush?

    Putin's 69. Maybe he's afraid he doesn't have many more years left.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,360

    The one thing that I don't get amidst all the Russian strategic planning is: why go now? Why not wait a few more years, until NordStream2 was a thing?

    What's the rush?

    Because the West is becoming less dependent on Russia by the day? The combination of renewables and LNG fundamentally tips the board away from Russia.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,510
    Last wk the Home Sec announced she’s closing the T1 visa scheme saying it was a route for “kleptocrats” into the UK. On that basis for a piece on Friday we asked the Conservative Party if they plan to review money donated by T1s who have become UK citizens.This is what they said. https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1496148819028946957/photo/1
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited February 2022

    The one thing that I don't get amidst all the Russian strategic planning is: why go now? Why not wait a few more years, until NordStream2 was a thing?

    What's the rush?

    The safety of Putin's position , and his eye on his legacy ? I think it could be.
  • Options
    Applicant said:

    I always knew this French punning contest would fizzle out - not so much a Bayonne as a Quimper.....

    Any more of that and you'll be taken away in the back of a Vannes.
    Sounds rather Vichy.
    Ignore him. He's guilty, but in Seine.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,179
    Applicant said:

    Polruan said:

    I always knew this French punning contest would fizzle out - not so much a Bayonne as a Quimper.....

    You're on your Rhône now.
    No, we Caen keep this going for hours.
    You Le Mans!
    Give over a Lille bit. There's Rheims of this now
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,567
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Who is a Russia watcher on here. Is there any world in which Russia has legitimate claims to The Ukraine.

    Keep it short and to the point here pls.

    tia

    No.*
    And "The Ukraine" is Putin's preferred term, not Ukraine's.

    *well there is the world in which you get what you demand by overwhelming force.
    Although of course when speaking Russian he can say no such thing.

    The Ukrainian argument is based on English usage, not Russian or Ukrainian, neither of which languages have articles.

    The argument is that as you do not generally use the word "the" to refer to countries in English, if you do so it makes it sound like a geographical area rather than a country.
    Generally being the operative word there.
    There have always been a smattering, though over time they have fallen out of fashion. 'The Argentine' is the only other one which springs to mind in the vaguely modern era.

    Not many articles attached to geographical areas either - the one which springs to mind is 'The Wirral'.

    On a similar note, am I right that we have now started calling the capital city Kyiv rather than Kiev because the former is Ukrainian and the latter is Russian? If so, it isn't the only place where we call a city by the language its inhabitants don't use. In particular, we often seem to use French where the locals do not (e.g. we call it Bruges, as the French do, whereas the locals call it Brugge; we call it Basle, as the French do, while locals call it Basel.)

    Interestingly, I think both German and French speakers refer to Switzerland with a definite article: Der Schweiz and La Suisse. In German, at least, it is not standard to do this to a country.

    Also while I'm on about it: why does the Hague have a definite article?
    And also why you're on about it what's up with street and road.

    The Balls Pond Road and Carnaby Street as examples. Why is one "the" and the other not.
    My theory is that roads which are named after their destination take the article, effectively "the road to Balls Pond". Streets don't normally go anywhere and are more purely intra-urban in nature.

    The Hague is a direct translation, Den Hague or 's-Gravenhage, The (Count's) Hedge although haag probably means something more like enclosure or fortification in this context.
    Only in London though. The Edgware Road, the Gloucester Road. You don't get that anywhere else. The Stockport Road, The Oldham Road? No.
    That would explain my Liverpool Road.
    The East Lancs, mind.
    How about the Scottie Road?
    Indeed. And there's the Scotswood Road in Newcastle, too. And Westgate Road. Known as the West Road.
    Maybe it's just local habits?
    The coast road.
    Heathener said:

    Guido Fawkes
    @GuidoFawkes

    Rishi’s Approval Rating Goes Negative


    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1496137082858885130

    Wow.

    I really think he missed his chance. Will we look back 5 years from now and say, 'Remember when Rishi Sunak was a shoo-in for PM?'
    Another in a long line of bottlers.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,217

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,880

    Alex Salmond's Alba party asks West to think about 'Russia's security interests' in Ukrainian crisis
    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19942995.alex-salmonds-alba-party-asks-west-think-russias-security-interests-ukrainian-crisis/

    And there it is.

    Anyone on the Scottish nationalist side of things who says "oh working for RT is no worse than working for the BBC", take a look at this mess of a wreck of a pigsty of a disgrace.
  • Options

    The one thing that I don't get amidst all the Russian strategic planning is: why go now? Why not wait a few more years, until NordStream2 was a thing?

    What's the rush?

    Putin's position and eye on his legacy ? I think it could be.
    I'm more intrigued by why they didn't go a few weeks earlier when the weather was more suitable and there was still some element of surprise.

    Was it really because of the Olympics?
  • Options
    slade said:

    slade said:

    Has anybody commented that today is palindromic and an ambigram - 2022022.

    The next will be Feb 8th 2080.
    Around the time that Tory MPs finally get around to axing Johnson.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,639

    I always knew this French punning contest would fizzle out - not so much a Bayonne as a Quimper.....

    Don't be too premature. The Jura's still out.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,715

    Heathener said:

    And now for an unpopular view.

    I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.

    I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.

    Putin apologist.

    Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".

    You are a disgrace.
    If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,434

    Nigelb said:

    Decent bit of trolling from the US Embassy.
    Not very diplomatic.
    https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKyiv/status/1496115593149358081

    Weird flex that the country (capital) peaked a thousand years ago, but OK.
    It's a response to Putin's questionable historical claims.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,168
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Who is a Russia watcher on here. Is there any world in which Russia has legitimate claims to The Ukraine.

    Keep it short and to the point here pls.

    tia

    No.*
    And "The Ukraine" is Putin's preferred term, not Ukraine's.

    *well there is the world in which you get what you demand by overwhelming force.
    Although of course when speaking Russian he can say no such thing.

    The Ukrainian argument is based on English usage, not Russian or Ukrainian, neither of which languages have articles.

    The argument is that as you do not generally use the word "the" to refer to countries in English, if you do so it makes it sound like a geographical area rather than a country.
    Generally being the operative word there.
    There have always been a smattering, though over time they have fallen out of fashion. 'The Argentine' is the only other one which springs to mind in the vaguely modern era.

    Not many articles attached to geographical areas either - the one which springs to mind is 'The Wirral'.

    On a similar note, am I right that we have now started calling the capital city Kyiv rather than Kiev because the former is Ukrainian and the latter is Russian? If so, it isn't the only place where we call a city by the language its inhabitants don't use. In particular, we often seem to use French where the locals do not (e.g. we call it Bruges, as the French do, whereas the locals call it Brugge; we call it Basle, as the French do, while locals call it Basel.)

    Interestingly, I think both German and French speakers refer to Switzerland with a definite article: Der Schweiz and La Suisse. In German, at least, it is not standard to do this to a country.

    Also while I'm on about it: why does the Hague have a definite article?
    And also why you're on about it what's up with street and road.

    The Balls Pond Road and Carnaby Street as examples. Why is one "the" and the other not.
    My theory is that roads which are named after their destination take the article, effectively "the road to Balls Pond". Streets don't normally go anywhere and are more purely intra-urban in nature.

    The Hague is a direct translation, Den Hague or 's-Gravenhage, The (Count's) Hedge although haag probably means something more like enclosure or fortification in this context.
    Only in London though. The Edgware Road, the Gloucester Road. You don't get that anywhere else. The Stockport Road, The Oldham Road? No.
    That would explain my Liverpool Road.
    The East Lancs, mind.
    How about the Scottie Road?
    Indeed. And there's the Scotswood Road in Newcastle, too. And Westgate Road. Known as the West Road.
    Maybe it's just local habits?
    The coast road.
    Heathener said:

    Guido Fawkes
    @GuidoFawkes

    Rishi’s Approval Rating Goes Negative


    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1496137082858885130

    Wow.

    I really think he missed his chance. Will we look back 5 years from now and say, 'Remember when Rishi Sunak was a shoo-in for PM?'
    Another in a long line of bottlers.
    Are you saying he’s a Nancy with fear in his Brest?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,510
    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760
    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,880
    TOPPING said:

    I always knew this French punning contest would fizzle out - not so much a Bayonne as a Quimper.....

    Don't be too premature. The Jura's still out.
    That reminds me, I never did Paris the attacks you made against me earlier on pronunciation.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,407
    Putin has asked the federal council to approve the use of the Russian military abroad, i.e. in Ukraine proper.

    https://ria.ru/20220222/sovfed-1774427106.html
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,340



    Heathener said:

    And now for an unpopular view.

    I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.

    I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.

    Putin apologist.

    Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".

    You are a disgrace.
    If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
    I'm surprised you don't remember, but Russia has launched chemical and nuclear attacks against Britain in the last couple of decades. Perhaps acting with others to restrain a Russia willing to perform such acts *is* a vital interest for us?

    Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,927

    Scott_xP said:

    lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...

    BoZo has fluffed it again

    Putin apologist
    Agreed. Anyone who hasn't figured out that all Johnson does is talk the talk but never walk the walk just hasn't been paying attention. He is the most vacuous PM we have ad in my lifetime. One great bag of wind.
  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
    "Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."

    Evidence?

    Sounds positively libellous to me.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,880

    Putin has asked the federal council to approve the use of the Russian military abroad, i.e. in Ukraine proper.

    https://ria.ru/20220222/sovfed-1774427106.html

    I'm not if there's a Ukraine improper, but I can tell you that Russian troops are already in Ukraine, right now.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,021



    Heathener said:

    And now for an unpopular view.

    I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.

    I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.

    Putin apologist.

    Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".

    You are a disgrace.
    If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
    Whether the Russians have invaded Ukraine or not has nothing to do with direct British military intervention.
  • Options
    Farooq said:

    Alex Salmond's Alba party asks West to think about 'Russia's security interests' in Ukrainian crisis
    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19942995.alex-salmonds-alba-party-asks-west-think-russias-security-interests-ukrainian-crisis/

    And there it is.

    Anyone on the Scottish nationalist side of things who says "oh working for RT is no worse than working for the BBC", take a look at this mess of a wreck of a pigsty of a disgrace.
    Salmond is well and truly down the rabbit hole.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    TOPPING said:

    I always knew this French punning contest would fizzle out - not so much a Bayonne as a Quimper.....

    Don't be too premature. The Jura's still out.
    It's getting rather Corse now.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760

    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
    "Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."

    Evidence?

    Sounds positively libellous to me.
    Over to you Sandpit, you posted the line.
  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
    "Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."

    Evidence?

    Sounds positively libellous to me.
    "The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) is a military-oriented body, which imposes conflict cessation rather than encouraging peace building. As such, it is not a sustainable mechanism for maintaining peace in the world. In the long term, we would take the UK out of NATO. "
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,852
    edited February 2022

    Heathener said:

    And now for an unpopular view.

    I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.

    I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.

    Putin apologist.

    Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".

    You are a disgrace.
    No she's not. She has a point of view which is pragmatic but dangerous in the longer term.

    Your boy nor the EU haven't exactly covered themselves with glory today. Sequester the dodgy Russian money now. All of it!
    There's pragmatic and there's dishonest.

    Russian troops have invaded Ukraine. They are literally in Ukraine right now.

    You might want to say "I don't care that Russian troops have invaded Ukraine" or "we should accept Russia's invasion" or other similar statements and claim it is "pragmatic" - I'd disagree, but we can agree to disagree.

    But to say this is not an invasion is a lie, pure and simple. Russia has invaded Ukraine, that is a fact.
  • Options
    Applicant said:

    TOPPING said:

    I always knew this French punning contest would fizzle out - not so much a Bayonne as a Quimper.....

    Don't be too premature. The Jura's still out.
    It's getting rather Corse now.
    It'd be good if someone Dreux a conclusion to it.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited February 2022
    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,595
    .

    Heathener said:

    And now for an unpopular view.

    I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.

    I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.

    Putin apologist.

    Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".

    You are a disgrace.
    No she's not. She has a point of view which is pragmatic but dangerous in the longer term.

    Your boy nor the EU haven't exactly covered themselves with glory today. Sequester the dodgy Russian money now. All of it!
    There's pragmatic and there's dishonest.

    Russian troops have invaded Ukraine. They are literally in Ukraine right now.

    You might want to say "I don't care that Russian troops have invaded Ukraine" or "we should accept Russia's invasion" or other similar statements and claim it is "pragmatic" - I'd disagree, but we can agree to disagree.

    But to say this is not an invasion is a lie, pure and simple. Russia has invaded Ukraine, that is a fact.
    She'll have to eat her words tomorrow however she defines today.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760
    OllyT said:

    Scott_xP said:

    lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...

    BoZo has fluffed it again

    Putin apologist
    Agreed. Anyone who hasn't figured out that all Johnson does is talk the talk but never walk the walk just hasn't been paying attention. He is the most vacuous PM we have ad in my lifetime. One great bag of wind.
    “ lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...BoZo has fluffed it again “

    Did Big G really respond to that summing up of Boris today with “Putin apologist” or are there deleted bits just to make it look that bad?
  • Options

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/jackshawlpc/status/1496119617630220289?s=21

    A fortnight ago the #LevellingUp White Paper recognised that "the UK’s centralised governance model means local actors have too rarely been empowered". Last week, the Government announced it's "looking into concerns" after Haringey published its local magazine too frequently.

    Isn't the actual allegation there (they it's not stated out loud) that a borough magazine acts as a party political publication for the party in power.
    Apparently Pickles brought in legislation banning the publication of local magazines more than quarterly or something.

    Probably because of the reasons you cite.

    But it’s a good example of the utter lunacy of UK centralisation and why the country will never, in fact, level up.
    Ah good old corpulent Pickles. ‘Town Hall Pravdas’ was his favourite term for them. What an idiot that fat fucker was. Now enobled. Naturally.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,880

    OllyT said:

    Scott_xP said:

    lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...

    BoZo has fluffed it again

    Putin apologist
    Agreed. Anyone who hasn't figured out that all Johnson does is talk the talk but never walk the walk just hasn't been paying attention. He is the most vacuous PM we have ad in my lifetime. One great bag of wind.
    “ lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...BoZo has fluffed it again “

    Did Big G really respond to that summing up of Boris today with “Putin apologist” or are there deleted bits just to make it look that bad?
    He really did. It was a pretty thoughtless post given that Scott was essentially saying Boris should do more against Putin.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,567
    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    Why does anyone give this old soak the time of day. He’d know all about lying. Architect of the dodgy dossier and helped the illegal war on Iraq and there was his evidence to the Hutton enquiry.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,674
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Decent bit of trolling from the US Embassy.
    Not very diplomatic.
    https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKyiv/status/1496115593149358081

    Weird flex that the country (capital) peaked a thousand years ago, but OK.
    It's a response to Putin's questionable historical claims.
    A dangerous one though: Kyiv (as I must get used to calling it) was basically the capital of Russia. Which in those days was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, in the Scandinavian tradition. To the extent that when the Mongols came knocking everyone left it to everyone else to defend the country and the cities got picked off one at a time.
    I'm not sure pointing this out actually helps the west's cause.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,434
    (OT) Is anyone betting on the Australian federal election ?

    Although the odds aren't wildly generous, it's getting quite soon now, and Morrison looks to be toastier than over-toasted toast.
  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
    "Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."

    Evidence?

    Sounds positively libellous to me.
    On a similar note.



    I put it down to verge-of-non-phoney-war hysteria.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,715



    Heathener said:

    And now for an unpopular view.

    I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.

    I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.

    Putin apologist.

    Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".

    You are a disgrace.
    If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
    I'm surprised you don't remember, but Russia has launched chemical and nuclear attacks against Britain in the last couple of decades. Perhaps acting with others to restrain a Russia willing to perform such acts *is* a vital interest for us?

    Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
    I am not delighted with the position in which Britain now finds herself, with a depleted army, and with what seem to be more than a few holes in our actual defence of the UK, and a nuclear deterrent that is dependent upon a foreign power. I would like us to have the world's best Navy, field a highly dangerous and adaptable airforce, and for when we said we were going to stop someone using the sea, for it to mean something. However, we are where we are, and it looks utterly stupid to make empty threats, or worse, to throw our limited resources at gaining some Ukrainian mud.

    Like Mark said, building tidal capacity and no longer needing to import Russian gas (or have China build our nuclear), does a lot more for us in relation to Russia than riding around in a tank or barking at them from under a fur hat.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,894

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/jackshawlpc/status/1496119617630220289?s=21

    A fortnight ago the #LevellingUp White Paper recognised that "the UK’s centralised governance model means local actors have too rarely been empowered". Last week, the Government announced it's "looking into concerns" after Haringey published its local magazine too frequently.

    Isn't the actual allegation there (they it's not stated out loud) that a borough magazine acts as a party political publication for the party in power.
    Apparently Pickles brought in legislation banning the publication of local magazines more than quarterly or something.

    Probably because of the reasons you cite.

    But it’s a good example of the utter lunacy of UK centralisation and why the country will never, in fact, level up.
    Ah good old corpulent Pickles. ‘Town Hall Pravdas’ was his favourite term for them. What an idiot that fat fucker was. Now enobled. Naturally.
    Another duff appointment by Cameron.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,894

    OllyT said:

    Scott_xP said:

    lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...

    BoZo has fluffed it again

    Putin apologist
    Agreed. Anyone who hasn't figured out that all Johnson does is talk the talk but never walk the walk just hasn't been paying attention. He is the most vacuous PM we have ad in my lifetime. One great bag of wind.
    “ lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...BoZo has fluffed it again “

    Did Big G really respond to that summing up of Boris today with “Putin apologist” or are there deleted bits just to make it look that bad?
    I thought it was quite uncharacteristic of BigG.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,778

    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
    "Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."

    Evidence?

    Sounds positively libellous to me.
    It's worth noting that I can't find any senior Green politicians in the UK on the list of signatories to the Stop the War Coalition statement on Ukraine.

    I'm glad that the Greens can see the difference between Iraq and Ukraine, even if a worrying number of people don't.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,434

    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
    "Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."

    Evidence?

    Sounds positively libellous to me.
    "The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) is a military-oriented body, which imposes conflict cessation rather than encouraging peace building. As such, it is not a sustainable mechanism for maintaining peace in the world. In the long term, we would take the UK out of NATO. "
    That ain't evidence for her cheering Putin on - just for her being deeply misguided.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,674
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Who is a Russia watcher on here. Is there any world in which Russia has legitimate claims to The Ukraine.

    Keep it short and to the point here pls.

    tia

    No.*
    And "The Ukraine" is Putin's preferred term, not Ukraine's.

    *well there is the world in which you get what you demand by overwhelming force.
    Although of course when speaking Russian he can say no such thing.

    The Ukrainian argument is based on English usage, not Russian or Ukrainian, neither of which languages have articles.

    The argument is that as you do not generally use the word "the" to refer to countries in English, if you do so it makes it sound like a geographical area rather than a country.
    Generally being the operative word there.
    There have always been a smattering, though over time they have fallen out of fashion. 'The Argentine' is the only other one which springs to mind in the vaguely modern era.

    Not many articles attached to geographical areas either - the one which springs to mind is 'The Wirral'.

    On a similar note, am I right that we have now started calling the capital city Kyiv rather than Kiev because the former is Ukrainian and the latter is Russian? If so, it isn't the only place where we call a city by the language its inhabitants don't use. In particular, we often seem to use French where the locals do not (e.g. we call it Bruges, as the French do, whereas the locals call it Brugge; we call it Basle, as the French do, while locals call it Basel.)

    Interestingly, I think both German and French speakers refer to Switzerland with a definite article: Der Schweiz and La Suisse. In German, at least, it is not standard to do this to a country.

    Also while I'm on about it: why does the Hague have a definite article?
    And also why you're on about it what's up with street and road.

    The Balls Pond Road and Carnaby Street as examples. Why is one "the" and the other not.
    My theory is that roads which are named after their destination take the article, effectively "the road to Balls Pond". Streets don't normally go anywhere and are more purely intra-urban in nature.

    The Hague is a direct translation, Den Hague or 's-Gravenhage, The (Count's) Hedge although haag probably means something more like enclosure or fortification in this context.
    Only in London though. The Edgware Road, the Gloucester Road. You don't get that anywhere else. The Stockport Road, The Oldham Road? No.
    That would explain my Liverpool Road.
    The East Lancs, mind.
    How about the Scottie Road?
    Indeed. And there's the Scotswood Road in Newcastle, too. And Westgate Road. Known as the West Road.
    Maybe it's just local habits?
    The coast road.
    Heathener said:

    Guido Fawkes
    @GuidoFawkes

    Rishi’s Approval Rating Goes Negative


    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1496137082858885130

    Wow.

    I really think he missed his chance. Will we look back 5 years from now and say, 'Remember when Rishi Sunak was a shoo-in for PM?'
    Another in a long line of bottlers.
    To be fair to Rishi, and David Miliband, and others in the same boat, they were waiting for a moment which never quite came.
    It's relatively easy to be the most attractive candidate to replace a PM. It's hard, but not impossible, to engineer the downfall of a Prime Minister. It's very very hard to do both at once.
    The trick is to be the most attractive candidate to replace a Prime Minister at the point a vacancy arises.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,894

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    Putin is an implacable enemy of both the EU and the UK. Brexit was hitting two birds with one stone.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,595

    OllyT said:

    Scott_xP said:

    lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...

    BoZo has fluffed it again

    Putin apologist
    Agreed. Anyone who hasn't figured out that all Johnson does is talk the talk but never walk the walk just hasn't been paying attention. He is the most vacuous PM we have ad in my lifetime. One great bag of wind.
    “ lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...BoZo has fluffed it again “

    Did Big G really respond to that summing up of Boris today with “Putin apologist” or are there deleted bits just to make it look that bad?
    I was about to explain... then I thought nah. I prefer the misinterpretation.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,434
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Decent bit of trolling from the US Embassy.
    Not very diplomatic.
    https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKyiv/status/1496115593149358081

    Weird flex that the country (capital) peaked a thousand years ago, but OK.
    It's a response to Putin's questionable historical claims.
    A dangerous one though: Kyiv (as I must get used to calling it) was basically the capital of Russia. Which in those days was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, in the Scandinavian tradition. To the extent that when the Mongols came knocking everyone left it to everyone else to defend the country and the cities got picked off one at a time.
    I'm not sure pointing this out actually helps the west's cause.
    Except it wasn't Russia back then.
    What we now call Russia is something very different indeed.
  • Options
    RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited February 2022

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.

    There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    I’d like to be corrected, but I do believe when we Brexited we made EU weaker. We took away from the EU a wealth of foreign policy resources: membership in all the key global networks and institutions, a first-rate foreign service, our brilliant military and intelligence apparatus, world-class universities and media, and lots of money out of the EU coffers. We mustn’t air brush out of history that UK did have a great influence when inside the EU. UK was the driving and liberalising force when it came to the Single Market, enlargement, competition and trade, as well as good influence on EU foreign policy, particularly under Lady Thatcher and Mr Blair.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,340



    Heathener said:

    And now for an unpopular view.

    I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.

    I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.

    Putin apologist.

    Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".

    You are a disgrace.
    If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
    I'm surprised you don't remember, but Russia has launched chemical and nuclear attacks against Britain in the last couple of decades. Perhaps acting with others to restrain a Russia willing to perform such acts *is* a vital interest for us?

    Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
    I am not delighted with the position in which Britain now finds herself, with a depleted army, and with what seem to be more than a few holes in our actual defence of the UK, and a nuclear deterrent that is dependent upon a foreign power. I would like us to have the world's best Navy, field a highly dangerous and adaptable airforce, and for when we said we were going to stop someone using the sea, for it to mean something. However, we are where we are, and it looks utterly stupid to make empty threats, or worse, to throw our limited resources at gaining some Ukrainian mud.

    Like Mark said, building tidal capacity and no longer needing to import Russian gas (or have China build our nuclear), does a lot more for us in relation to Russia than riding around in a tank or barking at them from under a fur hat.
    That does not address my point.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited February 2022
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    Why does anyone give this old soak the time of day. He’d know all about lying. Architect of the dodgy dossier and helped the illegal war on Iraq and there was his evidence to the Hutton enquiry.
    That doesn't make him wrong in this case, however. The real untold story here is the large number of names redacted from the Russia report, and the significant number of these linked to organisations like Vote Leave, through figures like Matthew Eliot, and others. There is a genuine Russian influence at work there.
  • Options

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    I’d like to be corrected, but I do believe when we Brexited we made EU weaker. We took away from the EU a wealth of foreign policy resources: membership in all the key global networks and institutions, a first-rate foreign service, our brilliant military and intelligence apparatus, world-class universities and media, and lots of money out of the EU coffers. We mustn’t air brush out of history that UK did have a great influence when inside the EU. UK was the driving and liberalising force when it came to the Single Market, enlargement, competition and trade, as well as good influence on EU foreign policy, particularly under Lady Thatcher and Mr Blair.
    That argument might make sense if the UK were sitting on its hands, doing nothing. Instead it is taking a harder stance, or certainly a quicker stance, than the EU.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited February 2022

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    I’d like to be corrected, but I do believe when we Brexited we made EU weaker. We took away from the EU a wealth of foreign policy resources: membership in all the key global networks and institutions, a first-rate foreign service, our brilliant military and intelligence apparatus, world-class universities and media, and lots of money out of the EU coffers. We mustn’t air brush out of history that UK did have a great influence when inside the EU. UK was the driving and liberalising force when it came to the Single Market, enlargement, competition and trade, as well as good influence on EU foreign policy, particularly under Lady Thatcher and Mr Blair.
    I'd agree with a lot of that, although I have a lot more reservations about Kosovo than is the standard view. There's still total media silence in the UK, and in the EU more on generally, on Hashim Thaci, leader of the KLA and one time hero of the West, 's upcoming trial for war crimes, for instance.
    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.

    There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
    Having a discussion isn't the same as defending or influencing a view within a large and powerful organisation, though.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,691
    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That's incorrect and libelous. Lucas has consistently spoken out against Russian expansionism.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,217

    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
    "Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."

    Evidence?

    Sounds positively libellous to me.
    Over to you Sandpit, you posted the line.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/carolinelucas

    Nothing to say condemning Russia for invading Ukraine, everything to say about UK party funding.
  • Options

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    Putin is an implacable enemy of both the EU and the UK. Brexit was hitting two birds with one stone.
    Correction: Putin is an implacable enemy of both NATO and the UK.

    I've never seen anything to say Putin is anti-EU, on the contrary he is extremely anti-NATO and the EU were undermining NATO.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    Putin has asked the federal council to approve the use of the Russian military abroad, i.e. ,\in Ukraine proper.

    https://ria.ru/20220222/sovfed-1774427106.html

    But he told us yesterday that Ukraine proper does not exist and is part of Russia. So he must mean somewhere else ...
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,117
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
    "Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."

    Evidence?

    Sounds positively libellous to me.
    Indeed Lucas was quite clear in her condemnation of Russia, and calling for stronger action:

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1496129233302835207?t=SOyYzyTzBjTig97j8NM5uA&s=19

    If you want an apologist for Russian aggression, you want Farage:

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1493305167940313088?t=PlBLqf_Yh1aqZBix8bVYhw&s=19
    Or Aaron Banks:

    https://twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/1496015423569022979?t=nonu79IcIBd0u1kpxx1Ffw&s=19

    Russia shouldn’t invade anyone but Ukraine isn’t a single unified country, in the same way Spain has its Basque problem. The EU stoked the fire burning in Eastern Ukraine on the Russia borders by pushing for membership & Nato expansion. https://t.co/TqF1xnLsPP
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,674
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Decent bit of trolling from the US Embassy.
    Not very diplomatic.
    https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKyiv/status/1496115593149358081

    Weird flex that the country (capital) peaked a thousand years ago, but OK.
    It's a response to Putin's questionable historical claims.
    A dangerous one though: Kyiv (as I must get used to calling it) was basically the capital of Russia. Which in those days was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, in the Scandinavian tradition. To the extent that when the Mongols came knocking everyone left it to everyone else to defend the country and the cities got picked off one at a time.
    I'm not sure pointing this out actually helps the west's cause.
    Except it wasn't Russia back then.
    What we now call Russia is something very different indeed.
    Well yes. It was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, for example.
    And most countries are pretty different to their counterparts from 1000 years ago.
    The name has sort of endured. And the language, sort of. And the religion. Which is as much as you can say about many countries.
    I certainly don't want to be going down the Ukraine-is-part-of-Russia route. Historical ownership of land means very little. Ukraine is no more Russian than it is Lithuanian. My point is that the USA pointing to the dazzling splendour of 10th century Kyiv is a dangerous road to go down and doesn't necessarily serve their argument well. Which is daft, as Putin's rhetorical positions are so easy to take apart.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.

    There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
    The wish is father to the thought.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,894

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    Why does anyone give this old soak the time of day. He’d know all about lying. Architect of the dodgy dossier and helped the illegal war on Iraq and there was his evidence to the Hutton enquiry.
    That doesn't make him wrong in this case, however. The real untold story here is the large number of names redacted from the Russia report, and the significant number of these linked to organisations like Vote Leave, through figures like Matthew Eliot, and others. There is a genuine Russian influence at work there.
    There are *always* various networks at play.

    The UK is a middle-ranked power, but definitely worth influencing. Of course Russia, China, Israel, various Gulf States and indeed the USA all have various networks at play.

    The problem with Russia is that it is obviously affecting - even at the margins - the very thing thanks makes “us” different from “them”: our democracy.

    We need transparency.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,501
    edited February 2022
    Sasha Johnson: Charges dropped over black rights activist shooting
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-60479678

    Another good day for the MET / CPS.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,715



    Heathener said:

    And now for an unpopular view.

    I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.

    I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.

    Putin apologist.

    Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".

    You are a disgrace.
    If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
    I'm surprised you don't remember, but Russia has launched chemical and nuclear attacks against Britain in the last couple of decades. Perhaps acting with others to restrain a Russia willing to perform such acts *is* a vital interest for us?

    Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
    I am not delighted with the position in which Britain now finds herself, with a depleted army, and with what seem to be more than a few holes in our actual defence of the UK, and a nuclear deterrent that is dependent upon a foreign power. I would like us to have the world's best Navy, field a highly dangerous and adaptable airforce, and for when we said we were going to stop someone using the sea, for it to mean something. However, we are where we are, and it looks utterly stupid to make empty threats, or worse, to throw our limited resources at gaining some Ukrainian mud.

    Like Mark said, building tidal capacity and no longer needing to import Russian gas (or have China build our nuclear), does a lot more for us in relation to Russia than riding around in a tank or barking at them from under a fur hat.
    That does not address my point.
    It explains my original position, which you attacked.

    To address your point further, yes, I do take the Russian side far more often than is usual here. I put that down to my starting point being that Russia and the USA are both foreign powers. Many, if not most here, are attached to 'The West' as a concept, with NATO as its military wing, but I question deeply whether 'The West' exists to support all its constituent parts or merely to cement American dominance. I do not see that dominance as necessarily a good thing, and back in the day, America didn't see British power as a good thing - they had a plan to invade the British Empire as late as the 30's.

    Traditionally, the guiding aim of British foreign policy has always been the 'balance of powers', so I'm not afraid of a powerful Russia. However, I am strongly opposed to Russia invading its near neighbours, whilst being realistic about what we can achieve to stop them.
  • Options
    RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    I’d like to be corrected, but I do believe when we Brexited we made EU weaker. We took away from the EU a wealth of foreign policy resources: membership in all the key global networks and institutions, a first-rate foreign service, our brilliant military and intelligence apparatus, world-class universities and media, and lots of money out of the EU coffers. We mustn’t air brush out of history that UK did have a great influence when inside the EU. UK was the driving and liberalising force when it came to the Single Market, enlargement, competition and trade, as well as good influence on EU foreign policy, particularly under Lady Thatcher and Mr Blair.
    I'd agree with a lot of that, although I have a lot more reservations about Kosovo than the standard view. There's still total media silence on Hashim Thaci, leader of the KLA, 's upcoming trial for war crimes, for instance.
    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.

    There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
    Having a discussion isn't the same as defending or influencing a view within a large and powerful organisation, though.
    But European defence isn't a primary competence of the European Union. Sanctions are, but as I'm sure you'll have noticed member states such as Germany are acting independently because it's quicker.

    Putin might have gained through the political instability of Brexit as a process, but to suggest it's had anything more than a trivial impact on European defence is incorrect.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,501
    edited February 2022
    Should have moved to just weekly updates. Really no need for the 5 days a week now.
  • Options
    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.

    There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
    Well said.

    There's no evidence at all Putin was anti-EU or wanted the UK out of the EU. There are die-hard Remain zealots who project their own viewpoints on it, but all Putin ever speaks about is NATO not the EU - and if anything the EU was undermining "braindead" NATO until Putin has just breathed new life into it.

    Remainers may want to credit the EU with all NATO's successes but those of us in the real world know it is NATO that is the power that matters, not the EU.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited February 2022

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    Why does anyone give this old soak the time of day. He’d know all about lying. Architect of the dodgy dossier and helped the illegal war on Iraq and there was his evidence to the Hutton enquiry.
    That doesn't make him wrong in this case, however. The real untold story here is the large number of names redacted from the Russia report, and the significant number of these linked to organisations like Vote Leave, through figures like Matthew Eliot, and others. There is a genuine Russian influence at work there.
    There are *always* various networks at play.

    The UK is a middle-ranked power, but definitely worth influencing. Of course Russia, China, Israel, various Gulf States and indeed the USA all have various networks at play.

    The problem with Russia is that it is obviously affecting - even at the margins - the very thing thanks makes “us” different from “them”: our democracy.

    We need transparency.
    There are always indeed, but this time, this particular group was linked to a once-in-a-century strategic change for Britain, which, their Head of State having openly declared his support for, definitely should have been further investigated.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,510

    That doesn't make him wrong in this case, however. The real untold story here is the large number of names redacted from the Russia report, and the significant number of these linked to organisations like Vote Leave, through figures like Matthew Eliot, and others. There is a genuine Russian influence at work there.

    Exactly.

    It's a measure of just how bad BoZo is that Alastair Fucking Campbell can reasonably criticise him
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,870
    The general gist of the UKs approach (and others) is to try to punish the narrow strata that consist of Putin's friends. I think Boris said the other day that it was important that the Russian people didn't think that we thought of them as our enemy. This is surely a mistaken plan. I think we should start viewing all Russian citizens as responsible for Putin.
  • Options



    Heathener said:

    And now for an unpopular view.

    I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.

    I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.

    Putin apologist.

    Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".

    You are a disgrace.
    If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
    I'm surprised you don't remember, but Russia has launched chemical and nuclear attacks against Britain in the last couple of decades. Perhaps acting with others to restrain a Russia willing to perform such acts *is* a vital interest for us?

    Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
    I am not delighted with the position in which Britain now finds herself, with a depleted army, and with what seem to be more than a few holes in our actual defence of the UK, and a nuclear deterrent that is dependent upon a foreign power. I would like us to have the world's best Navy, field a highly dangerous and adaptable airforce, and for when we said we were going to stop someone using the sea, for it to mean something. However, we are where we are, and it looks utterly stupid to make empty threats, or worse, to throw our limited resources at gaining some Ukrainian mud.

    Like Mark said, building tidal capacity and no longer needing to import Russian gas (or have China build our nuclear), does a lot more for us in relation to Russia than riding around in a tank or barking at them from under a fur hat.
    That does not address my point.
    It explains my original position, which you attacked.

    To address your point further, yes, I do take the Russian side far more often than is usual here. I put that down to my starting point being that Russia and the USA are both foreign powers. Many, if not most here, are attached to 'The West' as a concept, with NATO as its military wing, but I question deeply whether 'The West' exists to support all its constituent parts or merely to cement American dominance. I do not see that dominance as necessarily a good thing, and back in the day, America didn't see British power as a good thing - they had a plan to invade the British Empire as late as the 30's.

    Traditionally, the guiding aim of British foreign policy has always been the 'balance of powers', so I'm not afraid of a powerful Russia. However, I am strongly opposed to Russia invading its near neighbours, whilst being realistic about what we can achieve to stop them.
    Jessop keeps attacking people for their views on Russia but never states what actions he/she wants the West to take to stop them. Weak sanction announcement aside I think the West has taken as strong a line as it can on Ukraine.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
    "Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."

    Evidence?

    Sounds positively libellous to me.
    Indeed Lucas was quite clear in her condemnation of Russia, and calling for stronger action:

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1496129233302835207?t=SOyYzyTzBjTig97j8NM5uA&s=19

    If you want an apologist for Russian aggression, you want Farage:

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1493305167940313088?t=PlBLqf_Yh1aqZBix8bVYhw&s=19
    Or Aaron Banks:

    https://twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/1496015423569022979?t=nonu79IcIBd0u1kpxx1Ffw&s=19

    Russia shouldn’t invade anyone but Ukraine isn’t a single unified country, in the same way Spain has its Basque problem. The EU stoked the fire burning in Eastern Ukraine on the Russia borders by pushing for membership & Nato expansion. https://t.co/TqF1xnLsPP
    I’m surprised how much of that mad thinking is being expressed in UK these days. And by the right of centre, on GB news not the socialist left.
  • Options
    A new diplomatic inititiative by @EmmanuelMacron is now very unlikely. @Elysee believes Putin – after misleading Macron in three conversations on Sunday & Monday – has dynamited diplomatic route with his choregraphed security council meeting & apocalyptic TV address yesterday 1/

    https://twitter.com/mij_europe/status/1496139952966578181?s=21
  • Options
    The Tory problem with the huge donations they have received from very wealthy Russians is that everyone knows these were not made out of any kind of disinterested benevolence. As money buys access, influence and favour, why would it also not buy freedom from sanctions?
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    .

    Should have moved to just weekly updates. Really no need for the 5 days a week now.
    Sure, if you want the anti-Tory wing of the media to bang on endlessly about "what are they hiding?"...
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited February 2022
    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    I’d like to be corrected, but I do believe when we Brexited we made EU weaker. We took away from the EU a wealth of foreign policy resources: membership in all the key global networks and institutions, a first-rate foreign service, our brilliant military and intelligence apparatus, world-class universities and media, and lots of money out of the EU coffers. We mustn’t air brush out of history that UK did have a great influence when inside the EU. UK was the driving and liberalising force when it came to the Single Market, enlargement, competition and trade, as well as good influence on EU foreign policy, particularly under Lady Thatcher and Mr Blair.
    I'd agree with a lot of that, although I have a lot more reservations about Kosovo than the standard view. There's still total media silence on Hashim Thaci, leader of the KLA, 's upcoming trial for war crimes, for instance.
    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117

    As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
    But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .

    Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
    That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.

    There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
    Having a discussion isn't the same as defending or influencing a view within a large and powerful organisation, though.
    But European defence isn't a primary competence of the European Union. Sanctions are, but as I'm sure you'll have noticed member states such as Germany are acting independently because it's quicker.

    Putin might have gained through the political instability of Brexit as a process, but to suggest it's had anything more than a trivial impact on European defence is incorrect.
    But if Britain was in the EU now it would be arguing for a particular view *within EU institutions*, and influencing the tone of meetings, and such like. These things do matter, and there's no getting away from that, I would say.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,761
    edited February 2022

    kjh said:

    Sky announcing a lot more sanctions up the UK's sleeve announced by Liz Truss.

    Why didn't Boris announce them in Parliament? Weird.

    Agree. I thought it a poor response and some confusing answers given. I accept what @Farooq says about diplomacy, but still not impressed with level of sanctions nor the confusing answers given to MPs questions.

    On the other hand I thought the MPs were generally very good from all side with some very good questions asked.
    The EU hasn't agreed their suite of sanctions yet (Hungary playing silly buggers).

    And nobody has woken Biden up yet, so the Yanks can't tell us theirs either.....
    I know, and although I am pro EU, they haven't always been good at strong responses (one of the problems when it is a compromise answer from a group, and where the individual countries can respond better).

    However I am frustrated that Boris gave one particular answer that was so confusing and at the same time important re whether further sanctions only applied if Putin made further inroads into Ukraine and not if he stayed put. Umpteen MPs asked if he meant that or not and nobody got a straight answer. I think all the MPs thought he didn't mean it and that it would be unacceptable if Putin stayed where he was in Ukraine. However no answer actually cleared it up and if one answer started to clarify it the next would confuse matters again. The MPs on all sides seemed very frustrated.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,778
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    40m
    PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any

    Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧

    Not a good day for Boris and his government.

    However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
    Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.

    All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
    That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
    "Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."

    Evidence?

    Sounds positively libellous to me.
    Over to you Sandpit, you posted the line.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/carolinelucas

    Nothing to say condemning Russia for invading Ukraine, everything to say about UK party funding.
    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1496058020639518721

    "Outrageous Russian Aggression"

    You just don't want to see it because you've convinced yourself the Greens are synonymous with Corbynites. But they aren't.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,501
    edited February 2022
    Applicant said:

    .

    Should have moved to just weekly updates. Really no need for the 5 days a week now.
    Sure, if you want the anti-Tory wing of the media to bang on endlessly about "what are they hiding?"...
    The same wing already claiming Boris is being totally reckless and happy for poor people to die, so I don't think it will add much to that particular narrative angle.
This discussion has been closed.