Who is a Russia watcher on here. Is there any world in which Russia has legitimate claims to The Ukraine.
Keep it short and to the point here pls.
tia
No.* And "The Ukraine" is Putin's preferred term, not Ukraine's.
*well there is the world in which you get what you demand by overwhelming force.
Although of course when speaking Russian he can say no such thing.
The Ukrainian argument is based on English usage, not Russian or Ukrainian, neither of which languages have articles.
The argument is that as you do not generally use the word "the" to refer to countries in English, if you do so it makes it sound like a geographical area rather than a country.
Generally being the operative word there. There have always been a smattering, though over time they have fallen out of fashion. 'The Argentine' is the only other one which springs to mind in the vaguely modern era.
Not many articles attached to geographical areas either - the one which springs to mind is 'The Wirral'.
On a similar note, am I right that we have now started calling the capital city Kyiv rather than Kiev because the former is Ukrainian and the latter is Russian? If so, it isn't the only place where we call a city by the language its inhabitants don't use. In particular, we often seem to use French where the locals do not (e.g. we call it Bruges, as the French do, whereas the locals call it Brugge; we call it Basle, as the French do, while locals call it Basel.)
Interestingly, I think both German and French speakers refer to Switzerland with a definite article: Der Schweiz and La Suisse. In German, at least, it is not standard to do this to a country.
Also while I'm on about it: why does the Hague have a definite article?
And also why you're on about it what's up with street and road.
The Balls Pond Road and Carnaby Street as examples. Why is one "the" and the other not.
My theory is that roads which are named after their destination take the article, effectively "the road to Balls Pond". Streets don't normally go anywhere and are more purely intra-urban in nature.
The Hague is a direct translation, Den Hague or 's-Gravenhage, The (Count's) Hedge although haag probably means something more like enclosure or fortification in this context.
Only in London though. The Edgware Road, the Gloucester Road. You don't get that anywhere else. The Stockport Road, The Oldham Road? No.
That would explain my Liverpool Road. The East Lancs, mind.
How about the Scottie Road?
Indeed. And there's the Scotswood Road in Newcastle, too. And Westgate Road. Known as the West Road. Maybe it's just local habits?
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.
I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.
Putin apologist.
Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".
You are a disgrace.
If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
Who is a Russia watcher on here. Is there any world in which Russia has legitimate claims to The Ukraine.
Keep it short and to the point here pls.
tia
No.* And "The Ukraine" is Putin's preferred term, not Ukraine's.
*well there is the world in which you get what you demand by overwhelming force.
Although of course when speaking Russian he can say no such thing.
The Ukrainian argument is based on English usage, not Russian or Ukrainian, neither of which languages have articles.
The argument is that as you do not generally use the word "the" to refer to countries in English, if you do so it makes it sound like a geographical area rather than a country.
Generally being the operative word there. There have always been a smattering, though over time they have fallen out of fashion. 'The Argentine' is the only other one which springs to mind in the vaguely modern era.
Not many articles attached to geographical areas either - the one which springs to mind is 'The Wirral'.
On a similar note, am I right that we have now started calling the capital city Kyiv rather than Kiev because the former is Ukrainian and the latter is Russian? If so, it isn't the only place where we call a city by the language its inhabitants don't use. In particular, we often seem to use French where the locals do not (e.g. we call it Bruges, as the French do, whereas the locals call it Brugge; we call it Basle, as the French do, while locals call it Basel.)
Interestingly, I think both German and French speakers refer to Switzerland with a definite article: Der Schweiz and La Suisse. In German, at least, it is not standard to do this to a country.
Also while I'm on about it: why does the Hague have a definite article?
And also why you're on about it what's up with street and road.
The Balls Pond Road and Carnaby Street as examples. Why is one "the" and the other not.
My theory is that roads which are named after their destination take the article, effectively "the road to Balls Pond". Streets don't normally go anywhere and are more purely intra-urban in nature.
The Hague is a direct translation, Den Hague or 's-Gravenhage, The (Count's) Hedge although haag probably means something more like enclosure or fortification in this context.
Only in London though. The Edgware Road, the Gloucester Road. You don't get that anywhere else. The Stockport Road, The Oldham Road? No.
That would explain my Liverpool Road. The East Lancs, mind.
How about the Scottie Road?
Indeed. And there's the Scotswood Road in Newcastle, too. And Westgate Road. Known as the West Road. Maybe it's just local habits?
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.
I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.
Putin apologist.
Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".
You are a disgrace.
If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
I'm surprised you don't remember, but Russia has launched chemical and nuclear attacks against Britain in the last couple of decades. Perhaps acting with others to restrain a Russia willing to perform such acts *is* a vital interest for us?
Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
Agreed. Anyone who hasn't figured out that all Johnson does is talk the talk but never walk the walk just hasn't been paying attention. He is the most vacuous PM we have ad in my lifetime. One great bag of wind.
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.
I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.
Putin apologist.
Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".
You are a disgrace.
If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
Whether the Russians have invaded Ukraine or not has nothing to do with direct British military intervention.
Anyone on the Scottish nationalist side of things who says "oh working for RT is no worse than working for the BBC", take a look at this mess of a wreck of a pigsty of a disgrace.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧
Not a good day for Boris and his government.
However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.
All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
"Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."
Evidence?
Sounds positively libellous to me.
"The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) is a military-oriented body, which imposes conflict cessation rather than encouraging peace building. As such, it is not a sustainable mechanism for maintaining peace in the world. In the long term, we would take the UK out of NATO. "
I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.
I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.
Putin apologist.
Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".
You are a disgrace.
No she's not. She has a point of view which is pragmatic but dangerous in the longer term.
Your boy nor the EU haven't exactly covered themselves with glory today. Sequester the dodgy Russian money now. All of it!
There's pragmatic and there's dishonest.
Russian troops have invaded Ukraine. They are literally in Ukraine right now.
You might want to say "I don't care that Russian troops have invaded Ukraine" or "we should accept Russia's invasion" or other similar statements and claim it is "pragmatic" - I'd disagree, but we can agree to disagree.
But to say this is not an invasion is a lie, pure and simple. Russia has invaded Ukraine, that is a fact.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.
I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.
Putin apologist.
Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".
You are a disgrace.
No she's not. She has a point of view which is pragmatic but dangerous in the longer term.
Your boy nor the EU haven't exactly covered themselves with glory today. Sequester the dodgy Russian money now. All of it!
There's pragmatic and there's dishonest.
Russian troops have invaded Ukraine. They are literally in Ukraine right now.
You might want to say "I don't care that Russian troops have invaded Ukraine" or "we should accept Russia's invasion" or other similar statements and claim it is "pragmatic" - I'd disagree, but we can agree to disagree.
But to say this is not an invasion is a lie, pure and simple. Russia has invaded Ukraine, that is a fact.
She'll have to eat her words tomorrow however she defines today.
Agreed. Anyone who hasn't figured out that all Johnson does is talk the talk but never walk the walk just hasn't been paying attention. He is the most vacuous PM we have ad in my lifetime. One great bag of wind.
“ lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...BoZo has fluffed it again “
Did Big G really respond to that summing up of Boris today with “Putin apologist” or are there deleted bits just to make it look that bad?
A fortnight ago the #LevellingUp White Paper recognised that "the UK’s centralised governance model means local actors have too rarely been empowered". Last week, the Government announced it's "looking into concerns" after Haringey published its local magazine too frequently.
Isn't the actual allegation there (they it's not stated out loud) that a borough magazine acts as a party political publication for the party in power.
Apparently Pickles brought in legislation banning the publication of local magazines more than quarterly or something.
Probably because of the reasons you cite.
But it’s a good example of the utter lunacy of UK centralisation and why the country will never, in fact, level up.
Ah good old corpulent Pickles. ‘Town Hall Pravdas’ was his favourite term for them. What an idiot that fat fucker was. Now enobled. Naturally.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
Why does anyone give this old soak the time of day. He’d know all about lying. Architect of the dodgy dossier and helped the illegal war on Iraq and there was his evidence to the Hutton enquiry.
Weird flex that the country (capital) peaked a thousand years ago, but OK.
It's a response to Putin's questionable historical claims.
A dangerous one though: Kyiv (as I must get used to calling it) was basically the capital of Russia. Which in those days was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, in the Scandinavian tradition. To the extent that when the Mongols came knocking everyone left it to everyone else to defend the country and the cities got picked off one at a time. I'm not sure pointing this out actually helps the west's cause.
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.
I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.
Putin apologist.
Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".
You are a disgrace.
If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
I'm surprised you don't remember, but Russia has launched chemical and nuclear attacks against Britain in the last couple of decades. Perhaps acting with others to restrain a Russia willing to perform such acts *is* a vital interest for us?
Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
I am not delighted with the position in which Britain now finds herself, with a depleted army, and with what seem to be more than a few holes in our actual defence of the UK, and a nuclear deterrent that is dependent upon a foreign power. I would like us to have the world's best Navy, field a highly dangerous and adaptable airforce, and for when we said we were going to stop someone using the sea, for it to mean something. However, we are where we are, and it looks utterly stupid to make empty threats, or worse, to throw our limited resources at gaining some Ukrainian mud.
Like Mark said, building tidal capacity and no longer needing to import Russian gas (or have China build our nuclear), does a lot more for us in relation to Russia than riding around in a tank or barking at them from under a fur hat.
A fortnight ago the #LevellingUp White Paper recognised that "the UK’s centralised governance model means local actors have too rarely been empowered". Last week, the Government announced it's "looking into concerns" after Haringey published its local magazine too frequently.
Isn't the actual allegation there (they it's not stated out loud) that a borough magazine acts as a party political publication for the party in power.
Apparently Pickles brought in legislation banning the publication of local magazines more than quarterly or something.
Probably because of the reasons you cite.
But it’s a good example of the utter lunacy of UK centralisation and why the country will never, in fact, level up.
Ah good old corpulent Pickles. ‘Town Hall Pravdas’ was his favourite term for them. What an idiot that fat fucker was. Now enobled. Naturally.
Agreed. Anyone who hasn't figured out that all Johnson does is talk the talk but never walk the walk just hasn't been paying attention. He is the most vacuous PM we have ad in my lifetime. One great bag of wind.
“ lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...BoZo has fluffed it again “
Did Big G really respond to that summing up of Boris today with “Putin apologist” or are there deleted bits just to make it look that bad?
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧
Not a good day for Boris and his government.
However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.
All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
"Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."
Evidence?
Sounds positively libellous to me.
It's worth noting that I can't find any senior Green politicians in the UK on the list of signatories to the Stop the War Coalition statement on Ukraine.
I'm glad that the Greens can see the difference between Iraq and Ukraine, even if a worrying number of people don't.
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Bitch slapped by The Greens for promised Barrage at Putin being nothing more than a Pea shooter response is very definition of trolling 😧
Not a good day for Boris and his government.
However I will cross reference this with Snookie, my green friend on the ground in Bristol and report back to you. 👍🏻
Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on.
All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
That’s what I suspect too, which is why I am going to talk to her ground troops…
"Lucas doesn’t give the slightest crap about Putin invading Ukraine, she’ll quite happily be cheering him on."
Evidence?
Sounds positively libellous to me.
"The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) is a military-oriented body, which imposes conflict cessation rather than encouraging peace building. As such, it is not a sustainable mechanism for maintaining peace in the world. In the long term, we would take the UK out of NATO. "
That ain't evidence for her cheering Putin on - just for her being deeply misguided.
Who is a Russia watcher on here. Is there any world in which Russia has legitimate claims to The Ukraine.
Keep it short and to the point here pls.
tia
No.* And "The Ukraine" is Putin's preferred term, not Ukraine's.
*well there is the world in which you get what you demand by overwhelming force.
Although of course when speaking Russian he can say no such thing.
The Ukrainian argument is based on English usage, not Russian or Ukrainian, neither of which languages have articles.
The argument is that as you do not generally use the word "the" to refer to countries in English, if you do so it makes it sound like a geographical area rather than a country.
Generally being the operative word there. There have always been a smattering, though over time they have fallen out of fashion. 'The Argentine' is the only other one which springs to mind in the vaguely modern era.
Not many articles attached to geographical areas either - the one which springs to mind is 'The Wirral'.
On a similar note, am I right that we have now started calling the capital city Kyiv rather than Kiev because the former is Ukrainian and the latter is Russian? If so, it isn't the only place where we call a city by the language its inhabitants don't use. In particular, we often seem to use French where the locals do not (e.g. we call it Bruges, as the French do, whereas the locals call it Brugge; we call it Basle, as the French do, while locals call it Basel.)
Interestingly, I think both German and French speakers refer to Switzerland with a definite article: Der Schweiz and La Suisse. In German, at least, it is not standard to do this to a country.
Also while I'm on about it: why does the Hague have a definite article?
And also why you're on about it what's up with street and road.
The Balls Pond Road and Carnaby Street as examples. Why is one "the" and the other not.
My theory is that roads which are named after their destination take the article, effectively "the road to Balls Pond". Streets don't normally go anywhere and are more purely intra-urban in nature.
The Hague is a direct translation, Den Hague or 's-Gravenhage, The (Count's) Hedge although haag probably means something more like enclosure or fortification in this context.
Only in London though. The Edgware Road, the Gloucester Road. You don't get that anywhere else. The Stockport Road, The Oldham Road? No.
That would explain my Liverpool Road. The East Lancs, mind.
How about the Scottie Road?
Indeed. And there's the Scotswood Road in Newcastle, too. And Westgate Road. Known as the West Road. Maybe it's just local habits?
I really think he missed his chance. Will we look back 5 years from now and say, 'Remember when Rishi Sunak was a shoo-in for PM?'
Another in a long line of bottlers.
To be fair to Rishi, and David Miliband, and others in the same boat, they were waiting for a moment which never quite came. It's relatively easy to be the most attractive candidate to replace a PM. It's hard, but not impossible, to engineer the downfall of a Prime Minister. It's very very hard to do both at once. The trick is to be the most attractive candidate to replace a Prime Minister at the point a vacancy arises.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
Putin is an implacable enemy of both the EU and the UK. Brexit was hitting two birds with one stone.
Agreed. Anyone who hasn't figured out that all Johnson does is talk the talk but never walk the walk just hasn't been paying attention. He is the most vacuous PM we have ad in my lifetime. One great bag of wind.
“ lacklustre, insipid, tepid, threadbare...BoZo has fluffed it again “
Did Big G really respond to that summing up of Boris today with “Putin apologist” or are there deleted bits just to make it look that bad?
I was about to explain... then I thought nah. I prefer the misinterpretation.
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Weird flex that the country (capital) peaked a thousand years ago, but OK.
It's a response to Putin's questionable historical claims.
A dangerous one though: Kyiv (as I must get used to calling it) was basically the capital of Russia. Which in those days was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, in the Scandinavian tradition. To the extent that when the Mongols came knocking everyone left it to everyone else to defend the country and the cities got picked off one at a time. I'm not sure pointing this out actually helps the west's cause.
Except it wasn't Russia back then. What we now call Russia is something very different indeed.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.
There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
I’d like to be corrected, but I do believe when we Brexited we made EU weaker. We took away from the EU a wealth of foreign policy resources: membership in all the key global networks and institutions, a first-rate foreign service, our brilliant military and intelligence apparatus, world-class universities and media, and lots of money out of the EU coffers. We mustn’t air brush out of history that UK did have a great influence when inside the EU. UK was the driving and liberalising force when it came to the Single Market, enlargement, competition and trade, as well as good influence on EU foreign policy, particularly under Lady Thatcher and Mr Blair.
I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.
I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.
Putin apologist.
Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".
You are a disgrace.
If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
I'm surprised you don't remember, but Russia has launched chemical and nuclear attacks against Britain in the last couple of decades. Perhaps acting with others to restrain a Russia willing to perform such acts *is* a vital interest for us?
Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
I am not delighted with the position in which Britain now finds herself, with a depleted army, and with what seem to be more than a few holes in our actual defence of the UK, and a nuclear deterrent that is dependent upon a foreign power. I would like us to have the world's best Navy, field a highly dangerous and adaptable airforce, and for when we said we were going to stop someone using the sea, for it to mean something. However, we are where we are, and it looks utterly stupid to make empty threats, or worse, to throw our limited resources at gaining some Ukrainian mud.
Like Mark said, building tidal capacity and no longer needing to import Russian gas (or have China build our nuclear), does a lot more for us in relation to Russia than riding around in a tank or barking at them from under a fur hat.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
Why does anyone give this old soak the time of day. He’d know all about lying. Architect of the dodgy dossier and helped the illegal war on Iraq and there was his evidence to the Hutton enquiry.
That doesn't make him wrong in this case, however. The real untold story here is the large number of names redacted from the Russia report, and the significant number of these linked to organisations like Vote Leave, through figures like Matthew Eliot, and others. There is a genuine Russian influence at work there.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
I’d like to be corrected, but I do believe when we Brexited we made EU weaker. We took away from the EU a wealth of foreign policy resources: membership in all the key global networks and institutions, a first-rate foreign service, our brilliant military and intelligence apparatus, world-class universities and media, and lots of money out of the EU coffers. We mustn’t air brush out of history that UK did have a great influence when inside the EU. UK was the driving and liberalising force when it came to the Single Market, enlargement, competition and trade, as well as good influence on EU foreign policy, particularly under Lady Thatcher and Mr Blair.
That argument might make sense if the UK were sitting on its hands, doing nothing. Instead it is taking a harder stance, or certainly a quicker stance, than the EU.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
I’d like to be corrected, but I do believe when we Brexited we made EU weaker. We took away from the EU a wealth of foreign policy resources: membership in all the key global networks and institutions, a first-rate foreign service, our brilliant military and intelligence apparatus, world-class universities and media, and lots of money out of the EU coffers. We mustn’t air brush out of history that UK did have a great influence when inside the EU. UK was the driving and liberalising force when it came to the Single Market, enlargement, competition and trade, as well as good influence on EU foreign policy, particularly under Lady Thatcher and Mr Blair.
I'd agree with a lot of that, although I have a lot more reservations about Kosovo than is the standard view. There's still total media silence in the UK, and in the EU more on generally, on Hashim Thaci, leader of the KLA and one time hero of the West, 's upcoming trial for war crimes, for instance.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.
There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
Having a discussion isn't the same as defending or influencing a view within a large and powerful organisation, though.
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
Putin is an implacable enemy of both the EU and the UK. Brexit was hitting two birds with one stone.
Correction: Putin is an implacable enemy of both NATO and the UK.
I've never seen anything to say Putin is anti-EU, on the contrary he is extremely anti-NATO and the EU were undermining NATO.
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Russia shouldn’t invade anyone but Ukraine isn’t a single unified country, in the same way Spain has its Basque problem. The EU stoked the fire burning in Eastern Ukraine on the Russia borders by pushing for membership & Nato expansion. https://t.co/TqF1xnLsPP
Weird flex that the country (capital) peaked a thousand years ago, but OK.
It's a response to Putin's questionable historical claims.
A dangerous one though: Kyiv (as I must get used to calling it) was basically the capital of Russia. Which in those days was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, in the Scandinavian tradition. To the extent that when the Mongols came knocking everyone left it to everyone else to defend the country and the cities got picked off one at a time. I'm not sure pointing this out actually helps the west's cause.
Except it wasn't Russia back then. What we now call Russia is something very different indeed.
Well yes. It was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, for example. And most countries are pretty different to their counterparts from 1000 years ago. The name has sort of endured. And the language, sort of. And the religion. Which is as much as you can say about many countries. I certainly don't want to be going down the Ukraine-is-part-of-Russia route. Historical ownership of land means very little. Ukraine is no more Russian than it is Lithuanian. My point is that the USA pointing to the dazzling splendour of 10th century Kyiv is a dangerous road to go down and doesn't necessarily serve their argument well. Which is daft, as Putin's rhetorical positions are so easy to take apart.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.
There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
Why does anyone give this old soak the time of day. He’d know all about lying. Architect of the dodgy dossier and helped the illegal war on Iraq and there was his evidence to the Hutton enquiry.
That doesn't make him wrong in this case, however. The real untold story here is the large number of names redacted from the Russia report, and the significant number of these linked to organisations like Vote Leave, through figures like Matthew Eliot, and others. There is a genuine Russian influence at work there.
There are *always* various networks at play.
The UK is a middle-ranked power, but definitely worth influencing. Of course Russia, China, Israel, various Gulf States and indeed the USA all have various networks at play.
The problem with Russia is that it is obviously affecting - even at the margins - the very thing thanks makes “us” different from “them”: our democracy.
I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.
I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.
Putin apologist.
Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".
You are a disgrace.
If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
I'm surprised you don't remember, but Russia has launched chemical and nuclear attacks against Britain in the last couple of decades. Perhaps acting with others to restrain a Russia willing to perform such acts *is* a vital interest for us?
Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
I am not delighted with the position in which Britain now finds herself, with a depleted army, and with what seem to be more than a few holes in our actual defence of the UK, and a nuclear deterrent that is dependent upon a foreign power. I would like us to have the world's best Navy, field a highly dangerous and adaptable airforce, and for when we said we were going to stop someone using the sea, for it to mean something. However, we are where we are, and it looks utterly stupid to make empty threats, or worse, to throw our limited resources at gaining some Ukrainian mud.
Like Mark said, building tidal capacity and no longer needing to import Russian gas (or have China build our nuclear), does a lot more for us in relation to Russia than riding around in a tank or barking at them from under a fur hat.
That does not address my point.
It explains my original position, which you attacked.
To address your point further, yes, I do take the Russian side far more often than is usual here. I put that down to my starting point being that Russia and the USA are both foreign powers. Many, if not most here, are attached to 'The West' as a concept, with NATO as its military wing, but I question deeply whether 'The West' exists to support all its constituent parts or merely to cement American dominance. I do not see that dominance as necessarily a good thing, and back in the day, America didn't see British power as a good thing - they had a plan to invade the British Empire as late as the 30's.
Traditionally, the guiding aim of British foreign policy has always been the 'balance of powers', so I'm not afraid of a powerful Russia. However, I am strongly opposed to Russia invading its near neighbours, whilst being realistic about what we can achieve to stop them.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
I’d like to be corrected, but I do believe when we Brexited we made EU weaker. We took away from the EU a wealth of foreign policy resources: membership in all the key global networks and institutions, a first-rate foreign service, our brilliant military and intelligence apparatus, world-class universities and media, and lots of money out of the EU coffers. We mustn’t air brush out of history that UK did have a great influence when inside the EU. UK was the driving and liberalising force when it came to the Single Market, enlargement, competition and trade, as well as good influence on EU foreign policy, particularly under Lady Thatcher and Mr Blair.
I'd agree with a lot of that, although I have a lot more reservations about Kosovo than the standard view. There's still total media silence on Hashim Thaci, leader of the KLA, 's upcoming trial for war crimes, for instance.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.
There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
Having a discussion isn't the same as defending or influencing a view within a large and powerful organisation, though.
But European defence isn't a primary competence of the European Union. Sanctions are, but as I'm sure you'll have noticed member states such as Germany are acting independently because it's quicker.
Putin might have gained through the political instability of Brexit as a process, but to suggest it's had anything more than a trivial impact on European defence is incorrect.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.
There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
Well said.
There's no evidence at all Putin was anti-EU or wanted the UK out of the EU. There are die-hard Remain zealots who project their own viewpoints on it, but all Putin ever speaks about is NATO not the EU - and if anything the EU was undermining "braindead" NATO until Putin has just breathed new life into it.
Remainers may want to credit the EU with all NATO's successes but those of us in the real world know it is NATO that is the power that matters, not the EU.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
Why does anyone give this old soak the time of day. He’d know all about lying. Architect of the dodgy dossier and helped the illegal war on Iraq and there was his evidence to the Hutton enquiry.
That doesn't make him wrong in this case, however. The real untold story here is the large number of names redacted from the Russia report, and the significant number of these linked to organisations like Vote Leave, through figures like Matthew Eliot, and others. There is a genuine Russian influence at work there.
There are *always* various networks at play.
The UK is a middle-ranked power, but definitely worth influencing. Of course Russia, China, Israel, various Gulf States and indeed the USA all have various networks at play.
The problem with Russia is that it is obviously affecting - even at the margins - the very thing thanks makes “us” different from “them”: our democracy.
We need transparency.
There are always indeed, but this time, this particular group was linked to a once-in-a-century strategic change for Britain, which, their Head of State having openly declared his support for, definitely should have been further investigated.
That doesn't make him wrong in this case, however. The real untold story here is the large number of names redacted from the Russia report, and the significant number of these linked to organisations like Vote Leave, through figures like Matthew Eliot, and others. There is a genuine Russian influence at work there.
Exactly.
It's a measure of just how bad BoZo is that Alastair Fucking Campbell can reasonably criticise him
The general gist of the UKs approach (and others) is to try to punish the narrow strata that consist of Putin's friends. I think Boris said the other day that it was important that the Russian people didn't think that we thought of them as our enemy. This is surely a mistaken plan. I think we should start viewing all Russian citizens as responsible for Putin.
I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.
I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.
Putin apologist.
Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".
You are a disgrace.
If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
I'm surprised you don't remember, but Russia has launched chemical and nuclear attacks against Britain in the last couple of decades. Perhaps acting with others to restrain a Russia willing to perform such acts *is* a vital interest for us?
Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
I am not delighted with the position in which Britain now finds herself, with a depleted army, and with what seem to be more than a few holes in our actual defence of the UK, and a nuclear deterrent that is dependent upon a foreign power. I would like us to have the world's best Navy, field a highly dangerous and adaptable airforce, and for when we said we were going to stop someone using the sea, for it to mean something. However, we are where we are, and it looks utterly stupid to make empty threats, or worse, to throw our limited resources at gaining some Ukrainian mud.
Like Mark said, building tidal capacity and no longer needing to import Russian gas (or have China build our nuclear), does a lot more for us in relation to Russia than riding around in a tank or barking at them from under a fur hat.
That does not address my point.
It explains my original position, which you attacked.
To address your point further, yes, I do take the Russian side far more often than is usual here. I put that down to my starting point being that Russia and the USA are both foreign powers. Many, if not most here, are attached to 'The West' as a concept, with NATO as its military wing, but I question deeply whether 'The West' exists to support all its constituent parts or merely to cement American dominance. I do not see that dominance as necessarily a good thing, and back in the day, America didn't see British power as a good thing - they had a plan to invade the British Empire as late as the 30's.
Traditionally, the guiding aim of British foreign policy has always been the 'balance of powers', so I'm not afraid of a powerful Russia. However, I am strongly opposed to Russia invading its near neighbours, whilst being realistic about what we can achieve to stop them.
Jessop keeps attacking people for their views on Russia but never states what actions he/she wants the West to take to stop them. Weak sanction announcement aside I think the West has taken as strong a line as it can on Ukraine.
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Russia shouldn’t invade anyone but Ukraine isn’t a single unified country, in the same way Spain has its Basque problem. The EU stoked the fire burning in Eastern Ukraine on the Russia borders by pushing for membership & Nato expansion. https://t.co/TqF1xnLsPP
I’m surprised how much of that mad thinking is being expressed in UK these days. And by the right of centre, on GB news not the socialist left.
A new diplomatic inititiative by @EmmanuelMacron is now very unlikely. @Elysee believes Putin – after misleading Macron in three conversations on Sunday & Monday – has dynamited diplomatic route with his choregraphed security council meeting & apocalyptic TV address yesterday 1/
The Tory problem with the huge donations they have received from very wealthy Russians is that everyone knows these were not made out of any kind of disinterested benevolence. As money buys access, influence and favour, why would it also not buy freedom from sanctions?
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
I’d like to be corrected, but I do believe when we Brexited we made EU weaker. We took away from the EU a wealth of foreign policy resources: membership in all the key global networks and institutions, a first-rate foreign service, our brilliant military and intelligence apparatus, world-class universities and media, and lots of money out of the EU coffers. We mustn’t air brush out of history that UK did have a great influence when inside the EU. UK was the driving and liberalising force when it came to the Single Market, enlargement, competition and trade, as well as good influence on EU foreign policy, particularly under Lady Thatcher and Mr Blair.
I'd agree with a lot of that, although I have a lot more reservations about Kosovo than the standard view. There's still total media silence on Hashim Thaci, leader of the KLA, 's upcoming trial for war crimes, for instance.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.
There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
Having a discussion isn't the same as defending or influencing a view within a large and powerful organisation, though.
But European defence isn't a primary competence of the European Union. Sanctions are, but as I'm sure you'll have noticed member states such as Germany are acting independently because it's quicker.
Putin might have gained through the political instability of Brexit as a process, but to suggest it's had anything more than a trivial impact on European defence is incorrect.
But if Britain was in the EU now it would be arguing for a particular view *within EU institutions*, and influencing the tone of meetings, and such like. These things do matter, and there's no getting away from that, I would say.
Sky announcing a lot more sanctions up the UK's sleeve announced by Liz Truss.
Why didn't Boris announce them in Parliament? Weird.
Agree. I thought it a poor response and some confusing answers given. I accept what @Farooq says about diplomacy, but still not impressed with level of sanctions nor the confusing answers given to MPs questions.
On the other hand I thought the MPs were generally very good from all side with some very good questions asked.
The EU hasn't agreed their suite of sanctions yet (Hungary playing silly buggers).
And nobody has woken Biden up yet, so the Yanks can't tell us theirs either.....
I know, and although I am pro EU, they haven't always been good at strong responses (one of the problems when it is a compromise answer from a group, and where the individual countries can respond better).
However I am frustrated that Boris gave one particular answer that was so confusing and at the same time important re whether further sanctions only applied if Putin made further inroads into Ukraine and not if he stayed put. Umpteen MPs asked if he meant that or not and nobody got a straight answer. I think all the MPs thought he didn't mean it and that it would be unacceptable if Putin stayed where he was in Ukraine. However no answer actually cleared it up and if one answer started to clarify it the next would confuse matters again. The MPs on all sides seemed very frustrated.
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Should have moved to just weekly updates. Really no need for the 5 days a week now.
Sure, if you want the anti-Tory wing of the media to bang on endlessly about "what are they hiding?"...
The same wing already claiming Boris is being totally reckless and happy for poor people to die, so I don't think it will add much to that particular narrative angle.
🚨🚨🇬🇧🤡🇪🇺🇬🇧🤡🇪🇺🚨🚨 This is a story about how No.10 quietly shot down @Jacob_Rees_Mogg the new #brexit opportunities minister…and a story that begs questions over just how low the bar for ministerial competence appears to be set. Stay with me. /1
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.
There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
Well said.
There's no evidence at all Putin was anti-EU or wanted the UK out of the EU. There are die-hard Remain zealots who project their own viewpoints on it, but all Putin ever speaks about is NATO not the EU - and if anything the EU was undermining "braindead" NATO until Putin has just breathed new life into it.
Remainers may want to credit the EU with all NATO's successes but those of us in the real world know it is NATO that is the power that matters, not the EU.
LOL indeed, as they say ; taking all of 20 seconds to find an example comprehensively disproving this.
Putin tells May to implement "the Will of the People"
Who is a Russia watcher on here. Is there any world in which Russia has legitimate claims to The Ukraine.
Keep it short and to the point here pls.
tia
No.* And "The Ukraine" is Putin's preferred term, not Ukraine's.
*well there is the world in which you get what you demand by overwhelming force.
Although of course when speaking Russian he can say no such thing.
The Ukrainian argument is based on English usage, not Russian or Ukrainian, neither of which languages have articles.
The argument is that as you do not generally use the word "the" to refer to countries in English, if you do so it makes it sound like a geographical area rather than a country.
Generally being the operative word there. There have always been a smattering, though over time they have fallen out of fashion. 'The Argentine' is the only other one which springs to mind in the vaguely modern era.
Not many articles attached to geographical areas either - the one which springs to mind is 'The Wirral'.
On a similar note, am I right that we have now started calling the capital city Kyiv rather than Kiev because the former is Ukrainian and the latter is Russian? If so, it isn't the only place where we call a city by the language its inhabitants don't use. In particular, we often seem to use French where the locals do not (e.g. we call it Bruges, as the French do, whereas the locals call it Brugge; we call it Basle, as the French do, while locals call it Basel.)
Interestingly, I think both German and French speakers refer to Switzerland with a definite article: Der Schweiz and La Suisse. In German, at least, it is not standard to do this to a country.
Also while I'm on about it: why does the Hague have a definite article?
And also why you're on about it what's up with street and road.
The Balls Pond Road and Carnaby Street as examples. Why is one "the" and the other not.
My theory is that roads which are named after their destination take the article, effectively "the road to Balls Pond". Streets don't normally go anywhere and are more purely intra-urban in nature.
The Hague is a direct translation, Den Hague or 's-Gravenhage, The (Count's) Hedge although haag probably means something more like enclosure or fortification in this context.
Only in London though. The Edgware Road, the Gloucester Road. You don't get that anywhere else. The Stockport Road, The Oldham Road? No.
That would explain my Liverpool Road. The East Lancs, mind.
How about the Scottie Road?
Indeed. And there's the Scotswood Road in Newcastle, too. And Westgate Road. Known as the West Road. Maybe it's just local habits?
Nope. Its actual name is West Road, it turns into Westgate Road as you near town.
Yes. But the bit in town is known as West Road too.
The general gist of the UKs approach (and others) is to try to punish the narrow strata that consist of Putin's friends. I think Boris said the other day that it was important that the Russian people didn't think that we thought of them as our enemy. This is surely a mistaken plan. I think we should start viewing all Russian citizens as responsible for Putin.
Most Russian people have no power to influence Putin or to remove him. We know that democracy is a pure sham in Russia.
I'd definitely be broadening the net of Russians targeted by sanctions, though, to all who enable, facilitate and support Putin within the Russian economy, military, security and intelligence apparatus, and foreign policy.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
Why does anyone give this old soak the time of day. He’d know all about lying. Architect of the dodgy dossier and helped the illegal war on Iraq and there was his evidence to the Hutton enquiry.
That doesn't make him wrong in this case, however. The real untold story here is the large number of names redacted from the Russia report, and the significant number of these linked to organisations like Vote Leave, through figures like Matthew Eliot, and others. There is a genuine Russian influence at work there.
Quite frankly I take what he says with a large pinch of salt. Everything always comes back to Brexit with him and, quite frankly, he seems as hysterical as Cadwalladr on this issue.
Weird flex that the country (capital) peaked a thousand years ago, but OK.
It's a response to Putin's questionable historical claims.
A dangerous one though: Kyiv (as I must get used to calling it) was basically the capital of Russia. Which in those days was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, in the Scandinavian tradition. To the extent that when the Mongols came knocking everyone left it to everyone else to defend the country and the cities got picked off one at a time. I'm not sure pointing this out actually helps the west's cause.
Except it wasn't Russia back then. What we now call Russia is something very different indeed.
Well yes. It was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, for example. And most countries are pretty different to their counterparts from 1000 years ago. The name has sort of endured. And the language, sort of. And the religion. Which is as much as you can say about many countries. I certainly don't want to be going down the Ukraine-is-part-of-Russia route. Historical ownership of land means very little. Ukraine is no more Russian than it is Lithuanian. My point is that the USA pointing to the dazzling splendour of 10th century Kyiv is a dangerous road to go down and doesn't necessarily serve their argument well. Which is daft, as Putin's rhetorical positions are so easy to take apart.
When I was looking up the protagonists in The Great, this is eighteenth century, and I was surprised by how German they were. I think the borders then were Germany, Prussia and then Russia, no Ukraine? Was Nationalism the same thing in those days?
In the play I was in Kyiv changes hands very quickly. First there is Hetmen. Are the Hetmen the old German influence from that old age where in The Great `Germany provides Russia with its Royal family? And then Ukraine Nationalists held Kyiv. And then the reds. And there were other players in this 1918 to 21 war as well. An army of black people from Africa trying to control Kyiv.
Weird flex that the country (capital) peaked a thousand years ago, but OK.
It's a response to Putin's questionable historical claims.
A dangerous one though: Kyiv (as I must get used to calling it) was basically the capital of Russia. Which in those days was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, in the Scandinavian tradition. To the extent that when the Mongols came knocking everyone left it to everyone else to defend the country and the cities got picked off one at a time. I'm not sure pointing this out actually helps the west's cause.
Except it wasn't Russia back then. What we now call Russia is something very different indeed.
Well yes. It was one of the freer and more liberal countries of the world, for example. And most countries are pretty different to their counterparts from 1000 years ago. The name has sort of endured. And the language, sort of. And the religion. Which is as much as you can say about many countries. I certainly don't want to be going down the Ukraine-is-part-of-Russia route. Historical ownership of land means very little. Ukraine is no more Russian than it is Lithuanian. My point is that the USA pointing to the dazzling splendour of 10th century Kyiv is a dangerous road to go down and doesn't necessarily serve their argument well. Which is daft, as Putin's rhetorical positions are so easy to take apart.
What has happened is that the Rus were one people. When Kiev fell, Rus was splintered into different states, eventually much of it was centred on Vladimir-Suzdal and then Moscow. The west fell under the rule of Poland-Lithuania although Galicia and Volhynia were independent for a while and there were independent Cossacks such as the Zaporizhian host. Part of Ukraine was Ottoman or ruled by the Khans of Crimea (in fact those places later conquered by the Russians and given Greek names). The languages diverged, with the western language more influenced by Polish and Latin, the eastern by Greek and Church Slavonic.
But most of this is a very long time ago. it is a bit like redrawing the English, French, Danish and Norwegian borders based on the situation in England in the 11th century.
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Russia shouldn’t invade anyone but Ukraine isn’t a single unified country, in the same way Spain has its Basque problem. The EU stoked the fire burning in Eastern Ukraine on the Russia borders by pushing for membership & Nato expansion. https://t.co/TqF1xnLsPP
I’m surprised how much of that mad thinking is being expressed in UK these days. And by the right of centre, on GB news not the socialist left.
Caroline Lucas @CarolineLucas · 40m PM's list of sanctions against Moscow doesn’t go nearly far enough. When I asked him for a proper investigation into Kremlin meddling in our own politics, he said he’s not aware of any
Presumably that's because he hasn't bothered to look. Has he even read the Russia Report?
Russia shouldn’t invade anyone but Ukraine isn’t a single unified country, in the same way Spain has its Basque problem. The EU stoked the fire burning in Eastern Ukraine on the Russia borders by pushing for membership & Nato expansion. https://t.co/TqF1xnLsPP
I’m surprised how much of that mad thinking is being expressed in UK these days. And by the right of centre, on GB news not the socialist left.
To be fair, taking Russia out of the equation for a moment, I don't think its inaccurate to say that Ukraine has problems with minority areas in the same way that Spain does with the Basque country, Catalonia, etc - and indeed that many or even most countries do. However, the fact that Spain has problems of how to deal with minority areas wouldn't mean that Russia (or France, or anyone else) could legitimately march in and annex them.
International borders are highly contentious. But the principle must be that they are only changed with the consent of the country concerned and the people concerned. To do otherwise is to invite constant war.
I would have supported the rights of the people of the Crimea to have separated from the Ukraine and, should they have decided it, its subsequent union with Russia, right up to the point where Russia unilaterally decided to annex it.
But the primary principle must be that these things are not simply done by force.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.
There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
Well said.
There's no evidence at all Putin was anti-EU or wanted the UK out of the EU. There are die-hard Remain zealots who project their own viewpoints on it, but all Putin ever speaks about is NATO not the EU - and if anything the EU was undermining "braindead" NATO until Putin has just breathed new life into it.
Remainers may want to credit the EU with all NATO's successes but those of us in the real world know it is NATO that is the power that matters, not the EU.
LOL indeed, as they say.
Putin tells May to implement "the Will of the People"
Putin may well have been pro-Brexit, but nobody being pro-Brexit would have given me a moment's hesitation in voting for it. I knew why I was voting. I am not some weak minded trend-follower who'd be swayed by David Attenborough or Judi Dench telling me to vote Remain or be put off by Nick Griffin and Putin weighing in on the other side. Bugger that.
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
Why does anyone give this old soak the time of day. He’d know all about lying. Architect of the dodgy dossier and helped the illegal war on Iraq and there was his evidence to the Hutton enquiry.
That doesn't make him wrong in this case, however. The real untold story here is the large number of names redacted from the Russia report, and the significant number of these linked to organisations like Vote Leave, through figures like Matthew Eliot, and others. There is a genuine Russian influence at work there.
Quite frankly I take what he says with a large pinch of salt. Everything always comes back to Brexit with him and, quite frankly, he seems as hysterical as Cadwalladr on this issue.
I don't see any hysteria on this particular topic, just a fair amount of evidence, and a lot of unanswered questions.
Given we have now ended all restrictions, do we really need a constant update on Covid cases every day?
I'd say given we have ended all restrictions - i.e. we're doing something different - it's of even more interest. I think the news will continue to be good. But should I be wrong I don't want to be oblivious to it.
- Cases down. R below 1. Scotland is near 1 - why? Some indication it is falling back, though. - Admission down. - MV beds down - In hospital down - Deaths down
Johnson is a tactical dilettante who bounces around from lie to lie, broken promise to broken promise, vacuous threat to vacuous threat. Putin plays the long game all the time and will be thanking those in 🇷🇺who worked so hard to buy the Tory Party, help get Brexit and weaken🇬🇧 https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
As much as I don't like Johnson, I'm tired of people like Campbell and Adonis trying to pin this crisis on Brexit. Considering the main competence of Western defence in Europe remains with NATO, I have little doubt that Russia would have continued regardless of whether Britain was in or out of the EU.
But it doesn't help at all, that Britain is out of the EU, and communication and co-ordination with a reasonable-size power is thus weakened .
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
That's a load of rubbish I'm afraid. The UK government has been very careful not to let leaving the EU affect our commitment as a country to the defence of Europe. Our friends inside the EU in the Baltic and Poland are very grateful for the actions we've been taking.
There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
Well said.
There's no evidence at all Putin was anti-EU or wanted the UK out of the EU. There are die-hard Remain zealots who project their own viewpoints on it, but all Putin ever speaks about is NATO not the EU - and if anything the EU was undermining "braindead" NATO until Putin has just breathed new life into it.
Remainers may want to credit the EU with all NATO's successes but those of us in the real world know it is NATO that is the power that matters, not the EU.
LOL indeed, as they say.
Putin tells May to implement "the Will of the People"
Putin may well have been pro-Brexit, but nobody being pro-Brexit would have given me a moment's hesitation in voting for it. I knew why I was voting. I am not some weak minded trend-follower who'd be swayed by David Attenborough or Judi Dench telling me to vote Remain or be put off by Nick Griffin and Putin weighing in on the other side. Bugger that.
Indeed, everyone will have their own reasons for their views, but I was just responding to the ( false ) charge that there was no evidence of his support.
I do think tough sanctions and asset seizure is required. But if Putin goes no further (and I don't call this an invasion) I think we should stop right there. A lot of noise and then we hope that three, six, months from now the separatists states have been another casualty of oligarchy but war in Europe has been avoided.
I recognise however that we're dealing with a madman.
Putin apologist.
Russian troops are literally in Ukraine right now. How is that "not an invasion".
You are a disgrace.
If you're charging into the cannon's mouth yourself, I think you can justify calling someone else a disgrace. If you're playing armchair generals, not so much. It is a valid view that British blood and treasure should be kept to defend Britain and her vital interests.
I'm surprised you don't remember, but Russia has launched chemical and nuclear attacks against Britain in the last couple of decades. Perhaps acting with others to restrain a Russia willing to perform such acts *is* a vital interest for us?
Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
I am not delighted with the position in which Britain now finds herself, with a depleted army, and with what seem to be more than a few holes in our actual defence of the UK, and a nuclear deterrent that is dependent upon a foreign power. I would like us to have the world's best Navy, field a highly dangerous and adaptable airforce, and for when we said we were going to stop someone using the sea, for it to mean something. However, we are where we are, and it looks utterly stupid to make empty threats, or worse, to throw our limited resources at gaining some Ukrainian mud.
Like Mark said, building tidal capacity and no longer needing to import Russian gas (or have China build our nuclear), does a lot more for us in relation to Russia than riding around in a tank or barking at them from under a fur hat.
That does not address my point.
It explains my original position, which you attacked.
To address your point further, yes, I do take the Russian side far more often than is usual here. I put that down to my starting point being that Russia and the USA are both foreign powers. Many, if not most here, are attached to 'The West' as a concept, with NATO as its military wing, but I question deeply whether 'The West' exists to support all its constituent parts or merely to cement American dominance. I do not see that dominance as necessarily a good thing, and back in the day, America didn't see British power as a good thing - they had a plan to invade the British Empire as late as the 30's.
Traditionally, the guiding aim of British foreign policy has always been the 'balance of powers', so I'm not afraid of a powerful Russia. However, I am strongly opposed to Russia invading its near neighbours, whilst being realistic about what we can achieve to stop them.
Jessop keeps attacking people for their views on Russia but never states what actions he/she wants the West to take to stop them. Weak sanction announcement aside I think the West has taken as strong a line as it can on Ukraine.
I have stated my view on what should be done on a couple of occasions.
Russia's aggressive foreign actions need stopping. Preferably before they gobble up Ukraine; certainly before they threaten other neighbouring states.
- Cases down. R below 1. Scotland is near 1 - why? Some indication it is falling back, though. - Admission down. - MV beds down - In hospital down - Deaths down
Surely "this message was unanimously approved...."
- Cases down. R below 1. Scotland is near 1 - why? Some indication it is falling back, though. - Admission down. - MV beds down - In hospital down - Deaths down
Comments
All she is interested in doing today, is making a narrow and partisan point about UK political party funding.
Was it really because of the Olympics?
https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1496146205985882117
https://ria.ru/20220222/sovfed-1774427106.html
Then again, you always seem to pick the Russian side on things. Remember MH17?
Evidence?
Sounds positively libellous to me.
Russian troops have invaded Ukraine. They are literally in Ukraine right now.
You might want to say "I don't care that Russian troops have invaded Ukraine" or "we should accept Russia's invasion" or other similar statements and claim it is "pragmatic" - I'd disagree, but we can agree to disagree.
But to say this is not an invasion is a lie, pure and simple. Russia has invaded Ukraine, that is a fact.
Just as Putin would have wanted, and indeed was very open about wanting.
Did Big G really respond to that summing up of Boris today with “Putin apologist” or are there deleted bits just to make it look that bad?
I'm not sure pointing this out actually helps the west's cause.
Although the odds aren't wildly generous, it's getting quite soon now, and Morrison looks to be toastier than over-toasted toast.
I put it down to verge-of-non-phoney-war hysteria.
Like Mark said, building tidal capacity and no longer needing to import Russian gas (or have China build our nuclear), does a lot more for us in relation to Russia than riding around in a tank or barking at them from under a fur hat.
I'm glad that the Greens can see the difference between Iraq and Ukraine, even if a worrying number of people don't.
It's relatively easy to be the most attractive candidate to replace a PM. It's hard, but not impossible, to engineer the downfall of a Prime Minister. It's very very hard to do both at once.
The trick is to be the most attractive candidate to replace a Prime Minister at the point a vacancy arises.
https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1496129233302835207?t=SOyYzyTzBjTig97j8NM5uA&s=19
If you want an apologist for Russian aggression, you want Farage:
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1493305167940313088?t=PlBLqf_Yh1aqZBix8bVYhw&s=19
What we now call Russia is something very different indeed.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/whats-new/record/65a19809-ffac-4cf7-b4fd-f1a3dad5cac2
There seems to be this view amongst some elements of the Remain camp that we're not even able to have a discussion with the EU any more because we left which is a total myth. Just because we're outside the club doesn't mean we don't have common interests that we can still pool together on.
Nothing to say condemning Russia for invading Ukraine, everything to say about UK party funding.
I've never seen anything to say Putin is anti-EU, on the contrary he is extremely anti-NATO and the EU were undermining NATO.
https://twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/1496015423569022979?t=nonu79IcIBd0u1kpxx1Ffw&s=19
Russia shouldn’t invade anyone but Ukraine isn’t a single unified country, in the same way Spain has its Basque problem. The EU stoked the fire burning in Eastern Ukraine on the Russia borders by pushing for membership & Nato expansion. https://t.co/TqF1xnLsPP
And most countries are pretty different to their counterparts from 1000 years ago.
The name has sort of endured. And the language, sort of. And the religion. Which is as much as you can say about many countries.
I certainly don't want to be going down the Ukraine-is-part-of-Russia route. Historical ownership of land means very little. Ukraine is no more Russian than it is Lithuanian. My point is that the USA pointing to the dazzling splendour of 10th century Kyiv is a dangerous road to go down and doesn't necessarily serve their argument well. Which is daft, as Putin's rhetorical positions are so easy to take apart.
The UK is a middle-ranked power, but definitely worth influencing. Of course Russia, China, Israel, various Gulf States and indeed the USA all have various networks at play.
The problem with Russia is that it is obviously affecting - even at the margins - the very thing thanks makes “us” different from “them”: our democracy.
We need transparency.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-60479678
Another good day for the MET / CPS.
To address your point further, yes, I do take the Russian side far more often than is usual here. I put that down to my starting point being that Russia and the USA are both foreign powers. Many, if not most here, are attached to 'The West' as a concept, with NATO as its military wing, but I question deeply whether 'The West' exists to support all its constituent parts or merely to cement American dominance. I do not see that dominance as necessarily a good thing, and back in the day, America didn't see British power as a good thing - they had a plan to invade the British Empire as late as the 30's.
Traditionally, the guiding aim of British foreign policy has always been the 'balance of powers', so I'm not afraid of a powerful Russia. However, I am strongly opposed to Russia invading its near neighbours, whilst being realistic about what we can achieve to stop them.
Putin might have gained through the political instability of Brexit as a process, but to suggest it's had anything more than a trivial impact on European defence is incorrect.
There's no evidence at all Putin was anti-EU or wanted the UK out of the EU. There are die-hard Remain zealots who project their own viewpoints on it, but all Putin ever speaks about is NATO not the EU - and if anything the EU was undermining "braindead" NATO until Putin has just breathed new life into it.
Remainers may want to credit the EU with all NATO's successes but those of us in the real world know it is NATO that is the power that matters, not the EU.
It's a measure of just how bad BoZo is that Alastair Fucking Campbell can reasonably criticise him
https://twitter.com/mij_europe/status/1496139952966578181?s=21
However I am frustrated that Boris gave one particular answer that was so confusing and at the same time important re whether further sanctions only applied if Putin made further inroads into Ukraine and not if he stayed put. Umpteen MPs asked if he meant that or not and nobody got a straight answer. I think all the MPs thought he didn't mean it and that it would be unacceptable if Putin stayed where he was in Ukraine. However no answer actually cleared it up and if one answer started to clarify it the next would confuse matters again. The MPs on all sides seemed very frustrated.
"Outrageous Russian Aggression"
You just don't want to see it because you've convinced yourself the Greens are synonymous with Corbynites. But they aren't.
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1496129713227579411
Putin tells May to implement "the Will of the People"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyksXSOnwQ0
Morrison also leads Albanese 40% to 35% still as preferred PM and the later was more predictive of the result in 2019 than the 2PP
https://essentialreport.com.au/reports/federal-political-insights
https://ria.ru/20220222/soglasie-1774434602.html
I'd definitely be broadening the net of Russians targeted by sanctions, though, to all who enable, facilitate and support Putin within the Russian economy, military, security and intelligence apparatus, and foreign policy.
I think the borders then were Germany, Prussia and then Russia, no Ukraine?
Was Nationalism the same thing in those days?
In the play I was in Kyiv changes hands very quickly. First there is Hetmen. Are the Hetmen the old German influence from that old age where in The Great `Germany provides Russia with its Royal family?
And then Ukraine Nationalists held Kyiv. And then the reds.
And there were other players in this 1918 to 21 war as well. An army of black people from Africa trying to control Kyiv.
But most of this is a very long time ago. it is a bit like redrawing the English, French, Danish and Norwegian borders based on the situation in England in the 11th century.
However, the fact that Spain has problems of how to deal with minority areas wouldn't mean that Russia (or France, or anyone else) could legitimately march in and annex them.
International borders are highly contentious. But the principle must be that they are only changed with the consent of the country concerned and the people concerned. To do otherwise is to invite constant war.
I would have supported the rights of the people of the Crimea to have separated from the Ukraine and, should they have decided it, its subsequent union with Russia, right up to the point where Russia unilaterally decided to annex it.
But the primary principle must be that these things are not simply done by force.
I think the news will continue to be good. But should I be wrong I don't want to be oblivious to it.
- Cases down. R below 1. Scotland is near 1 - why? Some indication it is falling back, though.
- Admission down.
- MV beds down
- In hospital down
- Deaths down
Russia's aggressive foreign actions need stopping. Preferably before they gobble up Ukraine; certainly before they threaten other neighbouring states.