Starmer calling for RT to be banned which I agree with. Turned it on out of curiosity last night and was disgusted by the propaganda being churned out by news "reporters" with British accents.
Presumably Johnson will now stop Russia laundering its dirty money through London, as he threatened to do just two days ago. Johnson does now say sanctions didn't go far enough in 2014 following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which Johnson blamed Ukraine for provoking.
If we're playing the blame game we should perhaps include those many environmentalists who did so much to stymie gas exploration and production in the West, and in the process deliver Europe to a madman.
When Russian tanks are rolling across Europe, combatting climate change doesn't seem so important, right? How many divisions does David Attenborough have?
Let's not play the blame game. Let's demand action now. Boris HAS to freeze the Russian money in London. He cannot claim to be tough on Putin until he does. We should hold him to account here.
Yes. NordStream2 was Germany's ace card in the economic fight against Russia, and it looks like they've just played it. Time for Boris to follow suit.
“ Germany halts approval of Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline from Russia “.
Played card in what way? A mere short term pause? Or is that it on Germany taking Nord2 now?
Still wondering about Putin's state of mind after yesterday's rant. Perhaps it boils down to a choice of 3:
1. He's gone mad. It's quite possible he really does plan on recreating the USSR and will invade NATO states to achieve it. In which case RIP the Northern Hemisphere
2. He's a genius game theorist, who is now acting the madness card in order to scare Ukraine and the West into really believing 1, and secure what he really wants which is de facto acceptance of his annexation of Donbass and a more favourable negotiated settlement with NATO
3. He's in a weak and wavering position, not quite sure what to do next, and flailing about trying to make up tactics on the hoof.
What was extremely bizarre was the very public coercion and prodding of his senior officials into giving assent, and joint responsibility, for the plan, on camera.
That suggests to me that his position, and consensus within the government, is much more precarious than it looks.
That "Security Council" meeting was wacky.... Short of actually holding it in a dormant volcano.....
So now that Russia are the official baddies can we now have publication of the report into their meddling in our affairs? Surely we can all then collectively boo Putin and put right the damage he has done...
No, that is the limited ISC one that urged Downing Street to order a full enquiry and implement a framework to protect us from future attacks. Big Dog refused. We need the proper report that the ISC says we need to investigate Russian meddling in elections and referendums which Downing Street refuses to look at.
Why is Big Dog afraid of investigating Russia? Aren't they now the big bad who need to be Stopped? How can we stop them if he won't even look at it? Especially when the limited report showed meddling in the Scottish Independence vote - its totally logical to assume further meddling in the Brexit vote and both of the rerun elections of 2017 and 2019.
Here is the reality. The Tories take a lot of money from Russians. The Tories benefited from Russian state meddling in our democratic processes. The Tories say Russia is bad but are happy to take their money and their assistance because the Tories are brazenly corrupt.
So take everything the Big Dog says about Russia with a pinch of salt. They are his mates.
Do the Tories take Russian money though? I keep hearing this trotted out - is there any evidence of it? I'm tempted to treat this with a pinch of salt, like the Russia-interfered-in-the-2016-US-election meme. It seems on the face if it unlikely. And if so, money from which Russians? Money from the Russian state, or from their fugitives? I concede that it also seemed unlikely that Barry Gardiner was taking money from China, or that apparently everyone is taking money from Qatar.
That's one report. There are others. Temerko himself came to a hustings in Stockton South in 2015 to see what his money was being spent on.
If the government are serious about going after Russian money and influence to deter Putin, it would be a good start to stop taking Russian money and influence themselves.
Temerko is a British citizen.
Yes, and? Abramovich manages to be Israeli, Portuguese and Russian. Does each new nationality wipe a little more of his background away?
Your argument is truly in bad faith.
Yes, yes it does. That's the whole point of allowing people to acquire nationality.
Unless you're a blood and soil racist.
You're an absurdity on this front. Nationality does not supersede intent nor does it wash away uncomfortable backgrounds.
'Blood and soil racist' come on Phil. Some of us wonder where Russian energy moguls acquired their wealth.
As we have a right to when they are donating millions to the Conservative party.
Don't you see what has happened to the Russian state over the decades? Would you like aspects of it to appear here?
Sorry but this is nasty racism and xenophobia.
Do you accept that people who emigrate here and take citizenship here are real British citizens?
Or are they second class people with aspersions to be cast upon based upon where they were born?
Either you accept immigrants who've taken up a life and citizenship here or you don't. If Temerko is Russian to you, you're no better than the National Front.
I am asking:
Where did his wealth come from and why is he giving such a lot of it to the Conservative Party?
That he is a citizen has no bearing on these questions. And does not excuse anyone of actions under another passport.
(Can you argue more than one angle? Because you seem to have prepared heuristics that you beat the conversation down to. Not a man of nuances Mr Roberts)
He's the director of a British company and has been holding high positions in businesses for decades now.
What evidence do you have of dodgy money other than racism? Is it news to you that directors of successful businesses might be wealthy?
Still wondering about Putin's state of mind after yesterday's rant. Perhaps it boils down to a choice of 3:
1. He's gone mad. It's quite possible he really does plan on recreating the USSR and will invade NATO states to achieve it. In which case RIP the Northern Hemisphere
2. He's a genius game theorist, who is now acting the madness card in order to scare Ukraine and the West into really believing 1, and secure what he really wants which is de facto acceptance of his annexation of Donbass and a more favourable negotiated settlement with NATO
3. He's in a weak and wavering position, not quite sure what to do next, and flailing about trying to make up tactics on the hoof.
What was extremely bizarre was the very public coercion and prodding of his senior officials into giving assent, and joint responsibility, for the plan, on camera.
That suggests to me that his position, and consensus within the government, is much more precarious than it looks.
That "Security Council" meeting was wacky.... Short of actually holding it in a dormant volcano.....
Yes, like some sort of public threat as a last resort, rather than anything coming from a position of genuine security.
It also had some of the atmosphere of a Stalinist show-trial, particularly when he very publicly corrected Naryshkin. He in turn played his part, and stuttered into agreement. This part reminded me of the documentary on the funeral of Stalin that I saw recently, with Beria rocking from side to side chaotically, and threatening anyone that thought they could use this as "to undermine the Soviet state, or help our enemies."
Just imagine if Labour had won the last election and it was Jeremy Corbyn speaking in the house now ...
If Le Pen, Trump and Corbyn were Presidents of France and the USA and PM of the UK respectively, NATO would likely already have broken up and Putin would have relatively friendly leaders in all the key western military powers. He could easily have recaptured most of the old USSR already and maybe gone beyond into much of Eastern Europe with little fear of even economic sanctions let alone military action
Starmer calling for RT to be banned which I agree with. Turned it on out of curiosity last night and was disgusted by the propaganda being churned out by news "reporters" with British accents.
I'm not sure I agree. Though it would be interesting to compare and contrast opinions on this and the blocking of Deranged Schoolteacher (and chums) in the 80s
THOSE WHO ARE FRIENDS AND APOLOGISTS OF THE AGGRESSOR ARE ALSO THE AGGRESSOR.
All sort of tough painful Decisions to be made today, for a range of governments and other organisations to prove, rather than say, they oppose Mad Vlad’s aggression (not just the tanks on someone else’s sovereign land, but his disgraceful remarks threatening everybody in his crazed address)
Gazprom feature heavily, as it’s four of their pipelines which now should not be used, but also they should be cut off from UEFA completely and champions league final moved. Ditto F1 have to take action pronto, strip Putin of his race and look at the funding from his regime.
Boris needs to do 2 things to prove he is serious, he needs to be vocal that Nord cannot be used by Europe, not just announce our sanctions today but speak up and say Gazprom/Putin pipelines cannot be used, but also be more straight with us that what he is calling for does impact us, as where UK gets it’s Gas must now have heavy competition for it, Boris already got off to a bad start today talking spin and bollocks about this part to the British People. He can’t try to make out the sanctions and counter sanctions won’t hurt us, he needs to be straight with us about this.
Boris needs to tell Europe what it can and cannot do? Erm.
Erm what? He’s been saying this for the last three weeks already. Havn’t you noticed?
He has to say it again today, now it’s not if, but for real.
Why? Leadership. What he has been asking Europe to do does impact us, and it needs that honesty to us from our leader. This lunchtimes salvo from Boris is on behalf of all of us, the British, and it needs that honesty from leadership, “this action we never wanted to take, and yes, it will hurt every household and business in the UK.”
Leadership is building we are all in it together, and being honest where there will be pain, we bear it together.
What part of this don’t you understand?
Boris can't level with anybody. As he's incapable of knowing, let alone telling the truth. I don't understand why Boris has the gall to pose as some kind of leader of European policy when he pissed off out of it. Yes I do. It's cakeism. For a supposed LD you're a mighty fan of the PM and the Tory Party.
“ For a supposed LD you're a mighty fan of the PM and the Tory Party.”
Really? I merely set out the measure of good leadership we should expect from a Primeminister Boris needs to make today. He has to be straight with the British people, the action not he but “we” are taking will hurt every household and business in the UK. If he avoids/spins this I will flag it up.
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
Always is a Tory called before Blackford, frequently May.
Alternates opposition/government, so LOTO then a leading Tory backbencher (like May), then Blackford is always third (or fourth in PMQs if a government backbencher is first).
The Queen has cancelled her planned virtual engagements for Tuesday as she continues to experience Covid symptoms.
A Buckingham Palace spokesperson said: “As Her Majesty is still experiencing mild cold-like symptoms she has decided not to undertake her planned virtual engagements today, but will continue with light duties.’’
THOSE WHO ARE FRIENDS AND APOLOGISTS OF THE AGGRESSOR ARE ALSO THE AGGRESSOR.
All sort of tough painful Decisions to be made today, for a range of governments and other organisations to prove, rather than say, they oppose Mad Vlad’s aggression (not just the tanks on someone else’s sovereign land, but his disgraceful remarks threatening everybody in his crazed address)
Gazprom feature heavily, as it’s four of their pipelines which now should not be used, but also they should be cut off from UEFA completely and champions league final moved. Ditto F1 have to take action pronto, strip Putin of his race and look at the funding from his regime.
Boris needs to do 2 things to prove he is serious, he needs to be vocal that Nord cannot be used by Europe, not just announce our sanctions today but speak up and say Gazprom/Putin pipelines cannot be used, but also be more straight with us that what he is calling for does impact us, as where UK gets it’s Gas must now have heavy competition for it, Boris already got off to a bad start today talking spin and bollocks about this part to the British People. He can’t try to make out the sanctions and counter sanctions won’t hurt us, he needs to be straight with us about this.
Boris needs to tell Europe what it can and cannot do? Erm.
Erm what? He’s been saying this for the last three weeks already. Havn’t you noticed?
He has to say it again today, now it’s not if, but for real.
Why? Leadership. What he has been asking Europe to do does impact us, and it needs that honesty to us from our leader. This lunchtimes salvo from Boris is on behalf of all of us, the British, and it needs that honesty from leadership, “this action we never wanted to take, and yes, it will hurt every household and business in the UK.”
Leadership is building we are all in it together, and being honest where there will be pain, we bear it together.
What part of this don’t you understand?
Boris can't level with anybody. As he's incapable of knowing, let alone telling the truth. I don't understand why Boris has the gall to pose as some kind of leader of European policy when he pissed off out of it. Yes I do. It's cakeism. For a supposed LD you're a mighty fan of the PM and the Tory Party.
“ For a supposed LD you're a mighty fan of the PM and the Tory Party.”
Really? I merely set out the measure of good leadership we should expect from a Primeminister Boris needs to make today. He has to be straight with the British people, the action not he but “we” are taking will hurt every household and business in the UK. If he avoids/spins this I will flag it up.
Well. It won't much. Because it isn't much. Words not action is the PM's default setting.
Starmer calling for RT to be banned which I agree with. Turned it on out of curiosity last night and was disgusted by the propaganda being churned out by news "reporters" with British accents.
I'm not sure I agree. Though it would be interesting to compare and contrast opinions on this and the blocking of Deranged Schoolteacher (and chums) in the 80s
Plus of course those on GB news saying the same thing as flagged in this thread. Ban GB news too for saying same? Or they can say the same thing not be banned?
Bad misstep from Starmer, I’m with you on this one Malmsy.
As with all insane twisted nonsense available on internet, we need British people to apply their own even handed properly educated discerning minds to everything they read and hear, not go down the banning old and new media route Willy nilly In my opinion.
Starmer’s I’ll thought out reactionary twit moment.
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
The Queen has cancelled her planned virtual engagements for Tuesday as she continues to experience Covid symptoms.
A Buckingham Palace spokesperson said: “As Her Majesty is still experiencing mild cold-like symptoms she has decided not to undertake her planned virtual engagements today, but will continue with light duties.’’
Always is a Tory called before Blackford, frequently May.
Alternates opposition/government, so LOTO then a leading Tory backbencher (like May), then Blackford is always third (or fourth in PMQs if a government backbencher is first).
I thought statements usually went to the third party leader before any backbencher. Maybe May as former PM has a privileged position.
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
THOSE WHO ARE FRIENDS AND APOLOGISTS OF THE AGGRESSOR ARE ALSO THE AGGRESSOR.
All sort of tough painful Decisions to be made today, for a range of governments and other organisations to prove, rather than say, they oppose Mad Vlad’s aggression (not just the tanks on someone else’s sovereign land, but his disgraceful remarks threatening everybody in his crazed address)
Gazprom feature heavily, as it’s four of their pipelines which now should not be used, but also they should be cut off from UEFA completely and champions league final moved. Ditto F1 have to take action pronto, strip Putin of his race and look at the funding from his regime.
Boris needs to do 2 things to prove he is serious, he needs to be vocal that Nord cannot be used by Europe, not just announce our sanctions today but speak up and say Gazprom/Putin pipelines cannot be used, but also be more straight with us that what he is calling for does impact us, as where UK gets it’s Gas must now have heavy competition for it, Boris already got off to a bad start today talking spin and bollocks about this part to the British People. He can’t try to make out the sanctions and counter sanctions won’t hurt us, he needs to be straight with us about this.
Boris needs to tell Europe what it can and cannot do? Erm.
Erm what? He’s been saying this for the last three weeks already. Havn’t you noticed?
He has to say it again today, now it’s not if, but for real.
Why? Leadership. What he has been asking Europe to do does impact us, and it needs that honesty to us from our leader. This lunchtimes salvo from Boris is on behalf of all of us, the British, and it needs that honesty from leadership, “this action we never wanted to take, and yes, it will hurt every household and business in the UK.”
Leadership is building we are all in it together, and being honest where there will be pain, we bear it together.
What part of this don’t you understand?
Boris can't level with anybody. As he's incapable of knowing, let alone telling the truth. I don't understand why Boris has the gall to pose as some kind of leader of European policy when he pissed off out of it. Yes I do. It's cakeism. For a supposed LD you're a mighty fan of the PM and the Tory Party.
We left the EU, but we are still part of Europe. European nations are still our friends and allies.
I agree. Although often on PB (and elsewhere) many folk do not seem to regard European nations as our friends and allies, particularly France and Germany. Anti-European rhetoric still looms large, sadly.
Always is a Tory called before Blackford, frequently May.
Alternates opposition/government, so LOTO then a leading Tory backbencher (like May), then Blackford is always third (or fourth in PMQs if a government backbencher is first).
I thought statements usually went to the third party leader before any backbencher. Maybe May as former PM has a privileged position.
Or maybe I'm confused.
No, it always alternates. If its not May, it will usually be the Tory chair of the relevant Select Committee (or similar).
EG on Covid it will go Sir Keir then Hunt then Blackford. Blackford always follows a Tory, never Sir Keir.
Always is a Tory called before Blackford, frequently May.
Alternates opposition/government, so LOTO then a leading Tory backbencher (like May), then Blackford is always third (or fourth in PMQs if a government backbencher is first).
I thought statements usually went to the third party leader before any backbencher. Maybe May as former PM has a privileged position.
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
Always is a Tory called before Blackford, frequently May.
Alternates opposition/government, so LOTO then a leading Tory backbencher (like May), then Blackford is always third (or fourth in PMQs if a government backbencher is first).
I thought statements usually went to the third party leader before any backbencher. Maybe May as former PM has a privileged position.
Or maybe I'm confused.
On statement yesterday it went Starmer>May>Blackford.
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
Why just five? We should cut off the entire Russian banking sector.
That’s coming, but requires international agreement in order to do it properly.
Who needs a Russian bank when Deutsche or Credit Suisse will wave it through? Any idiot with two eyes knows there's plenty of Russian money in the City we have spectacularly failed to deal with.
5 banks have also been identified to have a knock-on economic effect on the country - for example Promyzaz handles 70% of state contracts of the Russian Ministry of Defence. The PM made is clear today more sanctions will come if Putin launches a 'full scale war of aggression.'
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
Starmer calling for RT to be banned which I agree with. Turned it on out of curiosity last night and was disgusted by the propaganda being churned out by news "reporters" with British accents.
I'm not sure I agree. Though it would be interesting to compare and contrast opinions on this and the blocking of Deranged Schoolteacher (and chums) in the 80s
I'm not normally one for banning media outlets, but Ofcom banned CGTN recently and it's not too long ago that we banned Press TV. RT seems to be just as bad now if not worse and I can't see it getting better.
Germany recently banned the German language edition from broadcasting in Germany but it did have consequences for Deutsche Welle TV in Moscow.
THOSE WHO ARE FRIENDS AND APOLOGISTS OF THE AGGRESSOR ARE ALSO THE AGGRESSOR.
All sort of tough painful Decisions to be made today, for a range of governments and other organisations to prove, rather than say, they oppose Mad Vlad’s aggression (not just the tanks on someone else’s sovereign land, but his disgraceful remarks threatening everybody in his crazed address)
Gazprom feature heavily, as it’s four of their pipelines which now should not be used, but also they should be cut off from UEFA completely and champions league final moved. Ditto F1 have to take action pronto, strip Putin of his race and look at the funding from his regime.
Boris needs to do 2 things to prove he is serious, he needs to be vocal that Nord cannot be used by Europe, not just announce our sanctions today but speak up and say Gazprom/Putin pipelines cannot be used, but also be more straight with us that what he is calling for does impact us, as where UK gets it’s Gas must now have heavy competition for it, Boris already got off to a bad start today talking spin and bollocks about this part to the British People. He can’t try to make out the sanctions and counter sanctions won’t hurt us, he needs to be straight with us about this.
LOL, Boris will put sanctions on a couple of pensioners in Siberia and claim he si being tough. No way the Tories will shut their laundry.
So now that Russia are the official baddies can we now have publication of the report into their meddling in our affairs? Surely we can all then collectively boo Putin and put right the damage he has done...
No, that is the limited ISC one that urged Downing Street to order a full enquiry and implement a framework to protect us from future attacks. Big Dog refused. We need the proper report that the ISC says we need to investigate Russian meddling in elections and referendums which Downing Street refuses to look at.
Why is Big Dog afraid of investigating Russia? Aren't they now the big bad who need to be Stopped? How can we stop them if he won't even look at it? Especially when the limited report showed meddling in the Scottish Independence vote - its totally logical to assume further meddling in the Brexit vote and both of the rerun elections of 2017 and 2019.
Here is the reality. The Tories take a lot of money from Russians. The Tories benefited from Russian state meddling in our democratic processes. The Tories say Russia is bad but are happy to take their money and their assistance because the Tories are brazenly corrupt.
So take everything the Big Dog says about Russia with a pinch of salt. They are his mates.
Do the Tories take Russian money though? I keep hearing this trotted out - is there any evidence of it? I'm tempted to treat this with a pinch of salt, like the Russia-interfered-in-the-2016-US-election meme. It seems on the face if it unlikely. And if so, money from which Russians? Money from the Russian state, or from their fugitives? I concede that it also seemed unlikely that Barry Gardiner was taking money from China, or that apparently everyone is taking money from Qatar.
That's one report. There are others. Temerko himself came to a hustings in Stockton South in 2015 to see what his money was being spent on.
If the government are serious about going after Russian money and influence to deter Putin, it would be a good start to stop taking Russian money and influence themselves.
Temerko is a British citizen.
Yes, and? Abramovich manages to be Israeli, Portuguese and Russian. Does each new nationality wipe a little more of his background away?
Your argument is truly in bad faith.
Yes, yes it does. That's the whole point of allowing people to acquire nationality.
Unless you're a blood and soil racist.
You're an absurdity on this front. Nationality does not supersede intent nor does it wash away uncomfortable backgrounds.
'Blood and soil racist' come on Phil. Some of us wonder where Russian energy moguls acquired their wealth.
As we have a right to when they are donating millions to the Conservative party.
Don't you see what has happened to the Russian state over the decades? Would you like aspects of it to appear here?
Sorry but this is nasty racism and xenophobia.
Do you accept that people who emigrate here and take citizenship here are real British citizens?
Or are they second class people with aspersions to be cast upon based upon where they were born?
Either you accept immigrants who've taken up a life and citizenship here or you don't. If Temerko is Russian to you, you're no better than the National Front.
I am asking:
Where did his wealth come from and why is he giving such a lot of it to the Conservative Party?
That he is a citizen has no bearing on these questions. And does not excuse anyone of actions under another passport.
(Can you argue more than one angle? Because you seem to have prepared heuristics that you beat the conversation down to. Not a man of nuances Mr Roberts)
He's the director of a British company and has been holding high positions in businesses for decades now.
What evidence do you have of dodgy money other than racism? Is it news to you that directors of successful businesses might be wealthy?
"The U.S. is going to have a significant announcement of its own later today, including sanctions that we will impose in response to what Russia did yesterday." -- Jon Finer, Deputy National Security Advisor
So now that Russia are the official baddies can we now have publication of the report into their meddling in our affairs? Surely we can all then collectively boo Putin and put right the damage he has done...
No, that is the limited ISC one that urged Downing Street to order a full enquiry and implement a framework to protect us from future attacks. Big Dog refused. We need the proper report that the ISC says we need to investigate Russian meddling in elections and referendums which Downing Street refuses to look at.
Why is Big Dog afraid of investigating Russia? Aren't they now the big bad who need to be Stopped? How can we stop them if he won't even look at it? Especially when the limited report showed meddling in the Scottish Independence vote - its totally logical to assume further meddling in the Brexit vote and both of the rerun elections of 2017 and 2019.
Here is the reality. The Tories take a lot of money from Russians. The Tories benefited from Russian state meddling in our democratic processes. The Tories say Russia is bad but are happy to take their money and their assistance because the Tories are brazenly corrupt.
So take everything the Big Dog says about Russia with a pinch of salt. They are his mates.
Do the Tories take Russian money though? I keep hearing this trotted out - is there any evidence of it? I'm tempted to treat this with a pinch of salt, like the Russia-interfered-in-the-2016-US-election meme. It seems on the face if it unlikely. And if so, money from which Russians? Money from the Russian state, or from their fugitives? I concede that it also seemed unlikely that Barry Gardiner was taking money from China, or that apparently everyone is taking money from Qatar.
That's one report. There are others. Temerko himself came to a hustings in Stockton South in 2015 to see what his money was being spent on.
If the government are serious about going after Russian money and influence to deter Putin, it would be a good start to stop taking Russian money and influence themselves.
Temerko is a British citizen.
Yes, and? Abramovich manages to be Israeli, Portuguese and Russian. Does each new nationality wipe a little more of his background away?
Your argument is truly in bad faith.
Yes, yes it does. That's the whole point of allowing people to acquire nationality.
Unless you're a blood and soil racist.
You're an absurdity on this front. Nationality does not supersede intent nor does it wash away uncomfortable backgrounds.
'Blood and soil racist' come on Phil. Some of us wonder where Russian energy moguls acquired their wealth.
As we have a right to when they are donating millions to the Conservative party.
Don't you see what has happened to the Russian state over the decades? Would you like aspects of it to appear here?
Sorry but this is nasty racism and xenophobia.
Do you accept that people who emigrate here and take citizenship here are real British citizens?
Or are they second class people with aspersions to be cast upon based upon where they were born?
Either you accept immigrants who've taken up a life and citizenship here or you don't. If Temerko is Russian to you, you're no better than the National Front.
I am asking:
Where did his wealth come from and why is he giving such a lot of it to the Conservative Party?
That he is a citizen has no bearing on these questions. And does not excuse anyone of actions under another passport.
(Can you argue more than one angle? Because you seem to have prepared heuristics that you beat the conversation down to. Not a man of nuances Mr Roberts)
He's the director of a British company and has been holding high positions in businesses for decades now.
What evidence do you have of dodgy money other than racism? Is it news to you that directors of successful businesses might be wealthy?
Mr. Applicant, while I don't necessarily agree with Mr. xP on much, I'm not a fan of encouraging people to leave the site unless they're behaving in a reprehensible or legally questionable manner.
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
If you want to make your best contribution to PB yet, you can take an extended break.
Mr. Applicant, while I don't necessarily agree with Mr. xP on much, I'm not a fan of encouraging people to leave the site unless they're behaving in a reprehensible or legally questionable manner.
Nor am I, when they make a positive contribution to the site - or even a neutral one.
BTW, I fixed the quote for you. It was a hassle, but it's important to help people follow the discussion.
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
Starmer calling for RT to be banned which I agree with. Turned it on out of curiosity last night and was disgusted by the propaganda being churned out by news "reporters" with British accents.
I'm not sure I agree. Though it would be interesting to compare and contrast opinions on this and the blocking of Deranged Schoolteacher (and chums) in the 80s
Plus of course those on GB news saying the same thing as flagged in this thread. Ban GB news too for saying same? Or they can say the same thing not be banned?
Bad misstep from Starmer, I’m with you on this one Malmsy.
As with all insane twisted nonsense available on internet, we need British people to apply their own even handed properly educated discerning minds to everything they read and hear, not go down the banning old and new media route Willy nilly In my opinion.
Starmer’s I’ll thought out reactionary twit moment.
I'm not a fan of GB News but it doesn't knowingly spread information to create a narrative for an invasion and the discussions on there do have some balance.
It shouldn't be illegal to view RT, but it shouldn't be as easily accessible on British television as it is now.
If you want to make your best contribution to PB yet, you can take an extended break.
Mr. Applicant, while I don't necessarily agree with Mr. xP on much, I'm not a fan of encouraging people to leave the site unless they're behaving in a reprehensible or legally questionable manner.
Nor am I, when they make a positive contribution to the site - or even a neutral one.
BTW, I fixed the quote for you. It was a hassle, but it's important to help people follow the discussion.
If you want to make your best contribution to PB yet, you can take an extended break.
Mr. Applicant, while I don't necessarily agree with Mr. xP on much, I'm not a fan of encouraging people to leave the site unless they're behaving in a reprehensible or legally questionable manner.
Nor am I, when they make a positive contribution to the site - or even a neutral one.
BTW, I fixed the quote for you. It was a hassle, but it's important to help people follow the discussion.
Britain's supposedly tough new sanctions regime is less robust than that of the US and would only catch 13 out of 35 oligarchs on Navalny's list, according to legal advice cited by @margarethodge. Boris Johnson disputes this. Interesting. Who is right? https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1496109751544991744
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
Why just five? We should cut off the entire Russian banking sector.
That’s coming, but requires international agreement in order to do it properly.
Who needs a Russian bank when Deutsche or Credit Suisse will wave it through? Any idiot with two eyes knows there's plenty of Russian money in the City we have spectacularly failed to deal with.
When previous “tough barrage of” sanctions were announced, the first Ukraine invasion, the Salisbury atrocity, with hindsight they were approved to amount to not much. After Salisbury the US sanctioned one Russia operator in UK, the UK didn’t, pick the bones out of that - in other cases MCMafia transferred ownership to others, got fake passports, and everyone carried on as business as usual - we can only judge the Boris Barrage over time - well done Boris/that’s crap Boris is meaningless today.
Except. Listening to how the Ukraines feel about it. Let’s listen to their response to this barrage against Putin.
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
The credibility issue I think with the UK response to the latest Russian invasion is that it is a very partial implementation of sanctions other countries, notably the US, have had in place for years.
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
Britain's supposedly tough new sanctions regime is less robust than that of the US and would only catch 13 out of 35 oligarchs on Navalny's list, according to legal advice cited by @margarethodge. Boris Johnson disputes this. Interesting. Who is right? https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1496109751544991744
Now that time has moved on from the post I feel better about the possibility of another Cicero and fall of a republic gag. Was funnier at the time of the Trump coup attempt.
Starmer calling for RT to be banned which I agree with. Turned it on out of curiosity last night and was disgusted by the propaganda being churned out by news "reporters" with British accents.
I'm not sure I agree. Though it would be interesting to compare and contrast opinions on this and the blocking of Deranged Schoolteacher (and chums) in the 80s
Plus of course those on GB news saying the same thing as flagged in this thread. Ban GB news too for saying same? Or they can say the same thing not be banned?
Bad misstep from Starmer, I’m with you on this one Malmsy.
As with all insane twisted nonsense available on internet, we need British people to apply their own even handed properly educated discerning minds to everything they read and hear, not go down the banning old and new media route Willy nilly In my opinion.
Starmer’s I’ll thought out reactionary twit moment.
I'm not a fan of GB News but it doesn't knowingly spread information to create a narrative for an invasion and the discussions on there do have some balance.
It shouldn't be illegal to view RT, but it shouldn't be as easily accessible on British television as it is now.
I’m not proposing banning GBnews because a few Faragists on there spouting a RT type spin, quite the opposite I’m pointing out how naively reactionary that is as was Starmer’s response.
At best now, Johnson has put himself in a position where he will be following, not leading. It just looks incredibly weak. And that's the generous interpretation.
China will be watching the action we take or not against Putin to decide whether they can take action against Taiwan
It’s a great lesson from history, the letters and documents the NAZI Germans passed around to embolden each other by pointing out the international community did NOTHING about Attaturks Armenian Genocide.
The best thing about two-channel TV in the 50s and 60s was an educative dose of current affairs being spooned out nightly among the popular entertainments. With the onset of streaming and niche podcasts people can now avoid it altogether if they chose, and cast their vote every four or five years based on how 'likeable' the party leaders may be.
It's striking that the only 'opposition' to Boris' statement is from MPs urging him to go further (including the Labour and Lib Dem leaders).
It means from a domestic political perspective, the government has free rein to escalate sanctions at will.
Only because of who was (and wasn't/hasn't been) called by the speaker!
The Speaker is duty bound to allow the expression of the full range of opinions within the House (and he's pretty good at it tbf). If the Stop The West-ers aren't asking questions, it's because they aren't trying to.
Comments
Played card in what way? A mere short term pause? Or is that it on Germany taking Nord2 now?
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-01-12/owner-of-tory-donor-company-chaired-firm-linked-to-russian-corruption-allegations
Edit: Yes. Yes he did.
It also had some of the atmosphere of a Stalinist show-trial, particularly when he very publicly corrected Naryshkin. He in turn played his part, and stuttered into agreement. This part reminded me of the documentary on the funeral of Stalin that I saw recently, with Beria rocking from side to side chaotically, and threatening anyone that thought they could use this as "to undermine the Soviet state, or help our enemies."
Like Abramovich.
He said sanctions will 'come down like a steel trap in the event of the first Russian toecap crossing into more sovereign Ukrainian territory'
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1496103964626010113
They don't. BoZo is a liar
Really? I merely set out the measure of good leadership we should expect from a Primeminister Boris needs to make today. He has to be straight with the British people, the action not he but “we” are taking will hurt every household and business in the UK. If he avoids/spins this I will flag it up.
Sanctions on five Russian banks and three "high net worth individuals" Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire who controls the Volga Group, Boris Rotenberg, co-owners of SMP Bank, and his nephew Igor Rotenberg, all already sanctioned by US
Five Russian banks to be sanctioned by UK - Rossiya (which has been important investor in Crimea), IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank
https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1496104164920893446
If you don't think banks are a serious element to be sanctioning, you clearly don't remember what happens when banks struggle like in 2007/08.
The best sanction to be announced is the death of Nord Stream 2 but that's not for the UK PM to announce in Parliament.
Alternates opposition/government, so LOTO then a leading Tory backbencher (like May), then Blackford is always third (or fourth in PMQs if a government backbencher is first).
Words not action is the PM's default setting.
Bad misstep from Starmer, I’m with you on this one Malmsy.
As with all insane twisted nonsense available on internet, we need British people to apply their own even handed properly educated discerning minds to everything they read and hear, not go down the banning old and new media route Willy nilly In my opinion.
Starmer’s I’ll thought out reactionary twit moment.
Or maybe I'm confused.
Germany just cut a bollock off and Boris has taken away a Harrods store card from three folk in Kensington.
https://twitter.com/BrianSpanner1/status/1496105257793122306
BoZo has fluffed it again
EG on Covid it will go Sir Keir then Hunt then Blackford. Blackford always follows a Tory, never Sir Keir.
Have EU actually agreed any sanctions they can announce yet?
A reminder that Aaron Banks who bankrolled Brexit with money from sources that have never been disclosed..has been an agent for Russia for years. https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1496046691706978306/photo/1
My parents had great fun trying to get an electrician who had buggered up the wiring to mend the problem. Lazy sod.
https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/1496105242299097089
https://www.swift.com/about-us/legal/compliance-0/swift-and-sanctions#what-is-the-role-of-swift-in-relation-to-financial-sanctions-that-are-imposed-by-regulators?
SWIFT isn't owned by the US and/or the UK
You guys just can't get enough...
Germany recently banned the German language edition from broadcasting in Germany but it did have consequences for Deutsche Welle TV in Moscow.
https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-broadcaster-rt-ordered-stop-germany-program/
https://twitter.com/Morning_Joe/status/1496104969157722115
https://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1496108553253404675
BTW, I fixed the quote for you. It was a hassle, but it's important to help people follow the discussion.
It shouldn't be illegal to view RT, but it shouldn't be as easily accessible on British television as it is now.
China will be watching the action we take or not against Putin to decide whether they can take action against Taiwan
https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1496109751544991744
Except. Listening to how the Ukraines feel about it. Let’s listen to their response to this barrage against Putin.
It means from a domestic political perspective, the government has free rein to escalate sanctions at will.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Worldwide_Interbank_Financial_Telecommunication
Matthew Eliot was a founding member, and still the government's key fixer for donations. Key Brexiters like Rosindell and Whittingdale too.