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Leaving the sinking ship? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited February 2022 in General
Leaving the sinking ship? – politicalbetting.com

In a letter to the Prime Minister, Mirza writes: ‘I believe it was wrong for you to imply this week that Keir Starmer was personally responsible for allowing Jimmy Savile to escape justice. There was no fair or reasonable basis for that assertion.’https://t.co/8ErjvBWOrL

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    Scott_xP said:

    Moral courage from Munira who has done her best to make progress with a professional team throughout the horror since 11/20. It's also an unmistakeable signal the bunker is collapsing & *this PM is finished*.
    Flicker of moral courage from Cabinet & Cabinet Office asap please
    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1489262007043850243

    Bat signal to Dishy Rishi there.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    ·
    5m
    A senior Whitehall figure messages. 'Wow. One of, if not the most, level-headed and experienced people who was left'
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    Ibrahim al-Qurayshi blows himself up during raid on Syrian house, killing 13 - including SIX children

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10471299/U-S-confirms-counterterrorism-mission-northwest-Syria.html
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    edited February 2022
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Moral courage from Munira who has done her best to make progress with a professional team throughout the horror since 11/20. It's also an unmistakeable signal the bunker is collapsing & *this PM is finished*.
    Flicker of moral courage from Cabinet & Cabinet Office asap please
    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1489262007043850243

    Bat signal to Dishy Rishi there.
    Seize the crown now or forever regret the passing of the days.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022
    Wow.

    I did try to explain to @MexicanPete that the Savile comment was disgraceful and the lowest moment I can remember in all my years of watching Parliament.

    Even the Express is hammering Johnson today, on all fronts

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1560525/boris-johnson-news-jimmy-savile-keir-starmer-munira-mirza-quits-downing-street-latest

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1560474/royal-family-Air-Force-BAe-146-France-Dassault-Emmanuel-macron-Brexit
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Remarkable how it is the Women in No 10 who seem to have moral standards and are happy to resign while the men just do whatever is required to stay in place.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    I wonder if there is anyone in cabinet who BJ implicitly trusts who can tell him it's over and he's far better off resigning than being subjected to a flame-thrower attack on the bunker. Anyone? Ben Wallace, perhaps? Presume Nad, JRM et al would prefer to end up on the funeral pyre.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    Wow ; even the Living Marxism crowd have had enough.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,273
    Just Go, BoJo

    This is now unbearable
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    rottenborough said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Moral courage from Munira who has done her best to make progress with a professional team throughout the horror since 11/20. It's also an unmistakeable signal the bunker is collapsing & *this PM is finished*.
    Flicker of moral courage from Cabinet & Cabinet Office asap please
    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1489262007043850243

    Bat signal to Dishy Rishi there.
    Seize the crown now or forever regret the passing of the days.
    I think this is probably right. If he leaves it much longer, he's the one who will take the blame for the financial hit. He's just about got time to get out of No. 11 and seize the reins of power, but only just.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,148
    Cynically, better to jump than be pushed?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited February 2022
    Heathener said:

    rottenborough said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Moral courage from Munira who has done her best to make progress with a professional team throughout the horror since 11/20. It's also an unmistakeable signal the bunker is collapsing & *this PM is finished*.
    Flicker of moral courage from Cabinet & Cabinet Office asap please
    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1489262007043850243

    Bat signal to Dishy Rishi there.
    Seize the crown now or forever regret the passing of the days.
    I think this is probably right. If he leaves it much longer, he's the one who will take the blame for the financial hit. He's just about got time to get out of No. 11 and seize the reins of power, but only just.
    He missed the ideal opportunity last weekend. He could have resigned saying something about he disagrees with the PM over the NI rise, he wants an alternative approach (doesn't matter what the truth is, nobody believe Boris).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,820
    eek said:

    Remarkable how it is the Women in No 10 who seem to have moral standards and are happy to resign while the men just do whatever is required to stay in place.

    Might just be a statistical fluke. But if there are two more, it'll be down to 6.25% probability of the null hypothesis. Even one more would be suspicious. And the look of it, even now ...
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    edited February 2022
    eek said:

    Remarkable how it is the Women in No 10 who seem to have moral standards and are happy to resign while the men just do whatever is required to stay in place.

    Nadeen Dorries proves this wrong from one angle; Geoffrey Cox from the other.

    Edit: you did say Number 10; fair enough. Maybe there are no men?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,273
    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,820
    Heathener said:

    Wow.

    I did try to explain to @MexicanPete that the Savile comment was disgraceful and the lowest moment I can remember in all my years of watching Parliament.

    Even the Express is hammering Johnson today, on all fronts

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1560525/boris-johnson-news-jimmy-savile-keir-starmer-munira-mirza-quits-downing-street-latest

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1560474/royal-family-Air-Force-BAe-146-France-Dassault-Emmanuel-macron-Brexit

    Even so, the sensitivity is remarkable. Is it the photo of Mr Savile with Mrs T, or is it Mr S being entrusted with taking part in the Broadmoor task force under a Conservative administration, or is there something we don't know?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Remarkable how it is the Women in No 10 who seem to have moral standards and are happy to resign while the men just do whatever is required to stay in place.

    Might just be a statistical fluke. But if there are two more, it'll be down to 6.25% probability of the null hypothesis. Even one more would be suspicious. And the look of it, even now ...
    Frostie the snowman not count?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    Waitrose to scrap free newspapers for loyalty-card customers

    My weekly shop will now cost £597 up from £384 according to Chris Bryant calculations.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,820
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Remarkable how it is the Women in No 10 who seem to have moral standards and are happy to resign while the men just do whatever is required to stay in place.

    Might just be a statistical fluke. But if there are two more, it'll be down to 6.25% probability of the null hypothesis. Even one more would be suspicious. And the look of it, even now ...
    Frostie the snowman not count?
    No, cos he's obviously trying to be the next PM, I think? Not out of principle.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Dom wades in


    Dominic Cummings
    @ Dominic2306
    ·
    14m
    Moral courage from Munira who has done her best to make progress with a professional team throughout the horror since 11/20. It's also an unmistakeable signal the bunker is collapsing & *this PM is finished*.
    Flicker of moral courage from Cabinet & Cabinet Office asap please

    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1489262007043850243?s=20&t=qwQug-V6LQrJG9Mt5zDoVQ
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Cynically, better to jump than be pushed?

    Why was she in danger of the push? Or you mean be pushed by PM sunak?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It makes JRM, James Cleverly, and Michael Gove look like the utter pricks they are for defending Boris Johnson on this.

    To be fair to the Gover he has taken Boris out once. Someone else's turn, surely.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He won't leave with dignity. He doesn't do dignity.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited February 2022
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It makes JRM, James Cleverly, and Michael Gove look like the utter pricks they are for defending Boris Johnson on this.

    Its a bit of a regular occurrence with Boris. Go with something controversial, send out the troops to defend it, then back down. Worst of both worlds as a tactic.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,820
    Farooq said:

    Burgessian said:

    I wonder if there is anyone in cabinet who BJ implicitly trusts who can tell him it's over and he's far better off resigning than being subjected to a flame-thrower attack on the bunker. Anyone? Ben Wallace, perhaps? Presume Nad, JRM et al would prefer to end up on the funeral pyre.

    I hope not. I'd rather he was ejected violently. It would start to restore my faith in the Conservatives. They have a lot of ground to make up after these past few months. A punishing and tearful eviction would be a good start.
    Prised out of the Underground War Rooms on live TV?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    Not sure there ever was such an opportunity. May tried to, at the end, sell her Brexit deal on a promise she would quit at that point, which would have been a face saving exit perhaps, but it didn't work. No one would buy Boris quitting to spend more time with his young family, and any reason needs to be semi plausible. End of Covid? Doesn't work as his whole deal has been to get through it and then level us up, not merely get us through it.

    No, an undignified exist, now or later, seems the only option. Hence why he may as well stay on to the next election - if he is going to go down, might as well be the public that do it, and who knows, he could still eke it out.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Wow.

    I did try to explain to @MexicanPete that the Savile comment was disgraceful and the lowest moment I can remember in all my years of watching Parliament.

    Even the Express is hammering Johnson today, on all fronts

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1560525/boris-johnson-news-jimmy-savile-keir-starmer-munira-mirza-quits-downing-street-latest

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1560474/royal-family-Air-Force-BAe-146-France-Dassault-Emmanuel-macron-Brexit

    Even so, the sensitivity is remarkable. Is it the photo of Mr Savile with Mrs T, or is it Mr S being entrusted with taking part in the Broadmoor task force under a Conservative administration, or is there something we don't know?
    I think the way Munira explains it says it perfectly, so there's no need for me to add to her words.

    You just don't play political games with child abuse victims. I'm one myself. An evil older man.

    That's where the deep sensitivity lies.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,820
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Waitrose to scrap free newspapers for loyalty-card customers

    My weekly shop will now cost £597 up from £384 according to Chris Bryant calculations.

    A week?! How many papers do you buy??
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,273
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He won't leave with dignity. He doesn't do dignity.
    The fate of the Lulu Lytle wallpaper will be a brilliant footnote when this history is written. Will the next occupant dare to replace it, at vast expense? Or will they just have to live with it, like Bucharest enduring Ceaucescu’s Palace of the Idiots?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Heathener said:

    rottenborough said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Moral courage from Munira who has done her best to make progress with a professional team throughout the horror since 11/20. It's also an unmistakeable signal the bunker is collapsing & *this PM is finished*.
    Flicker of moral courage from Cabinet & Cabinet Office asap please
    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1489262007043850243

    Bat signal to Dishy Rishi there.
    Seize the crown now or forever regret the passing of the days.
    I think this is probably right. If he leaves it much longer, he's the one who will take the blame for the financial hit. He's just about got time to get out of No. 11 and seize the reins of power, but only just.
    He missed the ideal opportunity last weekend. He could have resigned saying something about he disagrees with the PM over the NI rise, he wants an alternative approach (doesn't matter what the truth is, nobody believe Boris).
    Disagree. Rishi is the heir apparent. He can't have blood on his hands. Too divisive. He needs a proxy who can be rewarded.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    p.s. I know we're apparently supposed to say we are 'survivors' but sometimes it sure as fuck feels like a victim.

    Pardon the language.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It makes JRM, James Cleverly, and Michael Gove look like the utter pricks they are for defending Boris Johnson on this.

    Its a bit of a regular occurrence with Boris. Go with something controversial, send out the troops to defend it, then back down. Worst of both worlds as a tactic.
    Not sure why they keep falling for it. JRM at least seems to enjoy going out to bat for the captain, but the others don't look as comfortable with it.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,296
    rcs1000 said:

    Cynically, better to jump than be pushed?

    It's hard to believe that she has only recently discovered Boris Johnson has a tendency to tell lies.
    And for partisan advantage too. Shocking really.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    Farooq said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It makes JRM, James Cleverly, and Michael Gove look like the utter pricks they are for defending Boris Johnson on this.

    Was Gove at it too? I missed that one. I have a lot of time for Gove's energetic and serious attempts to reform whatever he's tasked with, but he's always fought dirty which takes that shine off.
    Boris Johnson Has Nothing To Apologise For Over Jimmy Savile Slur, Says Michael Gove

    In an interview released last night, the prime minister controversially doubled down on the comment, saying: “As far I’m aware, it’s fairly accurate.”

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/michael-gove-boris-johnson-nothing-to-apologise-jimmy-savile-slur-starmer_uk_61fa2f33e4b02136b6ed7c96
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited February 2022
    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Waitrose to scrap free newspapers for loyalty-card customers

    My weekly shop will now cost £597 up from £384 according to Chris Bryant calculations.

    A week?! How many papers do you buy??
    You missed the joke. Bryant came up with a totally nonsense figure for a weekly shop in his constituency, I am taking the piss.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Burgessian said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It makes JRM, James Cleverly, and Michael Gove look like the utter pricks they are for defending Boris Johnson on this.

    To be fair to the Gover he has taken Boris out once. Someone else's turn, surely.
    He was right all along, wasn't he? The Party should have listened.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,911
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    Trump held on even when he had lost the EC in 2020 and refused to concede defeat until eventually Congress awarded the election to Biden.

    Corbyn even lost a VONC in 2016 amongst his MPs, refused to resign and went to a membership vote where he was re elected and stayed leader until defeat at the 2019 general election.

    Boris is as stubborn as Trump and Corbyn, he will not resign even if there is a VONC and even if he only wins it 50.5% to 49.5%
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Remarkable how it is the Women in No 10 who seem to have moral standards and are happy to resign while the men just do whatever is required to stay in place.

    Might just be a statistical fluke. But if there are two more, it'll be down to 6.25% probability of the null hypothesis. Even one more would be suspicious. And the look of it, even now ...
    Frostie the snowman not count?
    No, cos he's obviously trying to be the next PM, I think? Not out of principle.
    Rly? Needs to unlord himself and get selected and elected in a yet to be caused by election.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,273
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    Not sure there ever was such an opportunity. May tried to, at the end, sell her Brexit deal on a promise she would quit at that point, which would have been a face saving exit perhaps, but it didn't work. No one would buy Boris quitting to spend more time with his young family, and any reason needs to be semi plausible. End of Covid? Doesn't work as his whole deal has been to get through it and then level us up, not merely get us through it.

    No, an undignified exist, now or later, seems the only option. Hence why he may as well stay on to the next election - if he is going to go down, might as well be the public that do it, and who knows, he could still eke it out.
    My bet now is he will be VONC’d and he will lose. And maybe in a way that has a dignity of its own. He fought and lost, so he departs

    And it will be another dramatic chapter in the 7 trillion dollar memoirs

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,820
    edited February 2022
    Heathener said:

    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Wow.

    I did try to explain to @MexicanPete that the Savile comment was disgraceful and the lowest moment I can remember in all my years of watching Parliament.

    Even the Express is hammering Johnson today, on all fronts

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1560525/boris-johnson-news-jimmy-savile-keir-starmer-munira-mirza-quits-downing-street-latest

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1560474/royal-family-Air-Force-BAe-146-France-Dassault-Emmanuel-macron-Brexit

    Even so, the sensitivity is remarkable. Is it the photo of Mr Savile with Mrs T, or is it Mr S being entrusted with taking part in the Broadmoor task force under a Conservative administration, or is there something we don't know?
    I think the way Munira explains it says it perfectly, so there's no need for me to add to her words.

    You just don't play political games with child abuse victims. I'm one myself. An evil older man.

    That's where the deep sensitivity lies.
    Ah - quite so. Thank you very much. I'd assumed that the Conservatives would be only too happy with that Savilian comment by Mr J given that they have seemed happy with plenty of other terminological inexactitudes over the years from Mr J at PMQ, but evidently not.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    kle4 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It makes JRM, James Cleverly, and Michael Gove look like the utter pricks they are for defending Boris Johnson on this.

    Its a bit of a regular occurrence with Boris. Go with something controversial, send out the troops to defend it, then back down. Worst of both worlds as a tactic.
    Not sure why they keep falling for it. JRM at least seems to enjoy going out to bat for the captain, but the others don't look as comfortable with it.
    Its beyond me. It happens so many times. Its one thing having a PM decide controversial policies, but you have to be certain if you go out to bat for them they aren't going to turn around in a couple of days and say just kidding.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Good for her. I admire her principled response to this. It was an outrageous slur.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,820
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Remarkable how it is the Women in No 10 who seem to have moral standards and are happy to resign while the men just do whatever is required to stay in place.

    Might just be a statistical fluke. But if there are two more, it'll be down to 6.25% probability of the null hypothesis. Even one more would be suspicious. And the look of it, even now ...
    Frostie the snowman not count?
    No, cos he's obviously trying to be the next PM, I think? Not out of principle.
    Rly? Needs to unlord himself and get selected and elected in a yet to be caused by election.
    Doesn't need to get the delording pliers out technically, I suppose. But yes, in practice quite so. Bit of a stretch to prove causality. So that data base of 2 females has to accommodate one male ... never mind, we only need 3 more females for a scientific certitude.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,712
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Waitrose to scrap free newspapers for loyalty-card customers

    My weekly shop will now cost £597 up from £384 according to Chris Bryant calculations.

    sssshit

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    Trump held on even when he had lost the EC in 2020 and refused to concede defeat until eventually Congress awarded the election to Biden.

    Corbyn even lost a VONC in 2016 amongst his MPs, refused to resign and went to a membership vote where he was re elected and stayed leader until defeat at the 2019 general election.

    Boris is as stubborn as Trump and Corbyn, he will not resign even if there is a VONC and even if he only wins it 50.5% to 49.5
    Which is precisely the reason why the mps will vonc the shit out of him if it comes to a vonc at all, rather than risk months of hideous death throes.
  • mr-claypolemr-claypole Posts: 218
    kle4 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It makes JRM, James Cleverly, and Michael Gove look like the utter pricks they are for defending Boris Johnson on this.

    Its a bit of a regular occurrence with Boris. Go with something controversial, send out the troops to defend it, then back down. Worst of both worlds as a tactic.
    Not sure why they keep falling for it. JRM at least seems to enjoy going out to bat for the captain, but the others don't look as comfortable with it.
    Even Jacob has been looking a bit bilious this week and A N Other defender clearly had to have a few drinks before the media round the other night
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    Not sure there ever was such an opportunity. May tried to, at the end, sell her Brexit deal on a promise she would quit at that point, which would have been a face saving exit perhaps, but it didn't work. No one would buy Boris quitting to spend more time with his young family, and any reason needs to be semi plausible. End of Covid? Doesn't work as his whole deal has been to get through it and then level us up, not merely get us through it.

    No, an undignified exist, now or later, seems the only option. Hence why he may as well stay on to the next election - if he is going to go down, might as well be the public that do it, and who knows, he could still eke it out.
    My bet now is he will be VONC’d and he will lose. And maybe in a way that has a dignity of its own. He fought and lost, so he departs

    And it will be another dramatic chapter in the 7 trillion dollar memoirs

    Not so dramatic as the one which covers when he reclaims his US citizenship and makes his run for the White House.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,820
    edited February 2022
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He won't leave with dignity. He doesn't do dignity.
    The fate of the Lulu Lytle wallpaper will be a brilliant footnote when this history is written. Will the next occupant dare to replace it, at vast expense? Or will they just have to live with it, like Bucharest enduring Ceaucescu’s Palace of the Idiots?
    Good quality emulsion paint should overpaint
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    Not sure there ever was such an opportunity. May tried to, at the end, sell her Brexit deal on a promise she would quit at that point, which would have been a face saving exit perhaps, but it didn't work. No one would buy Boris quitting to spend more time with his young family, and any reason needs to be semi plausible. End of Covid? Doesn't work as his whole deal has been to get through it and then level us up, not merely get us through it.

    No, an undignified exist, now or later, seems the only option. Hence why he may as well stay on to the next election - if he is going to go down, might as well be the public that do it, and who knows, he could still eke it out.
    My bet now is he will be VONC’d and he will lose. And maybe in a way that has a dignity of its own. He fought and lost, so he departs

    And it will be another dramatic chapter in the 7 trillion dollar memoirs

    As it seemed like the sort of thing Boris would do, I figured I'd google some Churchill quotes which might serve as title for his memoires. Frankly, I can easily see him glancing over the same list as inspiration for his leadership style, such as

    Never, never, never give up.
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts
    The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes
    It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time
    Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm

    He may have skipped over others, like

    The price of greatness is responsibility.
    One ought to be just before one is generous
    It’s not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what’s required
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    Trump held on even when he had lost the EC in 2020 and refused to concede defeat until eventually Congress awarded the election to Biden.

    Corbyn even lost a VONC in 2016 amongst his MPs, refused to resign and went to a membership vote where he was re elected and stayed leader until defeat at the 2019 general election.

    Boris is as stubborn as Trump and Corbyn, he will not resign even if there is a VONC and even if he only wins it 50.5% to 49.5%
    If the vote is called, and if he won't resign, I don't think there's any danger he'll win it. If they get to that stage, they'll surely have the sense to cut their losses.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    Johnson is taking an unconscionable time to die. However once gone, one wonders what percentage of the cabinet will be gone too... JRM, Dorries, Patel, Jack most likely to be put out of our misery, no matter what, and for that alone I wish the piranha tank would stop nibbling and actually make a meal of the albino gorilla.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited February 2022
    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    …..
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He won't leave with dignity. He doesn't do dignity.
    The fate of the Lulu Lytle wallpaper will be a brilliant footnote when this history is written. Will the next occupant dare to replace it, at vast expense? Or will they just have to live with it, like Bucharest enduring Ceaucescu’s Palace of the Idiots?
    I suppose it depends on who won.

    If it was Truss maybe she will just love it…

    If Sunak either he will refurb at his own expense to make a point - a fresh coat of paint for a fresh start - or I can see him keeping the Number 10 flat and not have his family move in. I’m sure they can afford to make their London home secure and they’ve got chequers (the cost no prob again).

    If Jeremy hunt then they just need to spray everything beige so not expensive.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,520
    Well done Miss Mirza. Nice to see someone showing some integrity.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    Farooq said:

    The most dignified exit Boris can hope for now is faking his own death

    Time to take a canoe into the North sea...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    Trump held on even when he had lost the EC in 2020 and refused to concede defeat until eventually Congress awarded the election to Biden.

    Corbyn even lost a VONC in 2016 amongst his MPs, refused to resign and went to a membership vote where he was re elected and stayed leader until defeat at the 2019 general election.

    Boris is as stubborn as Trump and Corbyn, he will not resign even if there is a VONC and even if he only wins it 50.5% to 49.5%
    What I do not understand with you is why you excuse the shame he is bringing to his office

    He will not survive this and the end could come very quickly

    And Munira Mirza statement is being featured on the BBC with text of her letter and it is damming
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,273
    Cicero said:

    Johnson is taking an unconscionable time to die. However once gone, one wonders what percentage of the cabinet will be gone too... JRM, Dorries, Patel, Jack most likely to be put out of our misery, no matter what, and for that alone I wish the piranha tank would stop nibbling and actually make a meal of the albino gorilla.

    In my sweet innocent childhood I remember Tito and Franco both taking a loooooong time-a-dyin
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Cicero said:

    Johnson is taking an unconscionable time to die. However once gone, one wonders what percentage of the cabinet will be gone too... JRM, Dorries, Patel, Jack most likely to be put out of our misery, no matter what, and for that alone I wish the piranha tank would stop nibbling and actually make a meal of the albino gorilla.

    Boris the Unflushable was cited this morning which I thought was brilliant.

    If he does go, with relatively little acrimony in terms of the margin (both big ifs) it's still going to take a lot to rebuild the Conservative brand from here. I'm not sure 2 years is sufficient with everything else hitting the fan but they have got to try.

    It needs someone who oozes competence, understands collegiality and gets the economy too. Because by heck we've got some choppy waters to navigate.
  • occasionalranteroccasionalranter Posts: 291
    Heathener said:

    p.s. I know we're apparently supposed to say we are 'survivors' but sometimes it sure as fuck feels like a victim.

    Pardon the language.

    You went through it: you get to call it what you like.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    Trump held on even when he had lost the EC in 2020 and refused to concede defeat until eventually Congress awarded the election to Biden.

    Corbyn even lost a VONC in 2016 amongst his MPs, refused to resign and went to a membership vote where he was re elected and stayed leader until defeat at the 2019 general election.

    Boris is as stubborn as Trump and Corbyn, he will not resign even if there is a VONC and even if he only wins it 50.5% to 49.5%
    What I do not understand with you is why you excuse the shame he is bringing to his office

    He will not survive this and the end could come very quickly

    And Munira Mirza statement is being featured on the BBC with text of her letter and it is damming
    And probably still not enough to generate 54 letters.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Farooq said:

    The most dignified exit Boris can hope for now is faking his own death

    Not a good time to go to the beach and leave your clothes on the sand.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,623
    Farooq said:

    The most dignified exit Boris can hope for now is faking his own death

    Stage an incident with a bulldozer?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,820
    edited February 2022
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Hmm, that's a thought, but it depends which summer you mean. Late 2020 yes, most certainly, late 2021 is pushing it surely.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    edited February 2022
    Remarkable to think this all began with taking a plane back from COP 26 to get pissed with Charles Moore at his club, and thinking that changing the rules to let a mate off was a capital idea.
    All the fatal flaws of the PM on display in one day.
    This time they counted.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Okay, now I’m really, really confused by this Jimmy Savile story!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It makes JRM, James Cleverly, and Michael Gove look like the utter pricks they are for defending Boris Johnson on this.

    Its a bit of a regular occurrence with Boris. Go with something controversial, send out the troops to defend it, then back down. Worst of both worlds as a tactic.
    He's like the Duke of York, no not that one, the one that marches people up a hill then back down again.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited February 2022
    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Hmm, that's a thought, but it depends which summer you mean. Late 2020 yes, most certainly, late 2021 is pushing it surely.
    Summer 2021 still be ok. You can absolutely say I have battled for over a year, as I am sure you have witnessed I have got better at times, then I have a particularly busy or demanding period and I regress. I feel deep empathy with all those suffering in a similar manner...Yadda yadda yadda.

    Now if he did say that I think he was probably lying / overplaying it. But 2020, he absolutely wasn't with it at times. Simple softball questions at those press conferences at times couldn't remember what they said 15s ago, forgot their name etc.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    I know it has been speculated already, but it really would be truly hilarious for the, presumed, new Tory MP to call out Boris in their victory speech.

    Louie French was a rebel in a vote within a couple of weeks of election.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Burgessian said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    Not sure there ever was such an opportunity. May tried to, at the end, sell her Brexit deal on a promise she would quit at that point, which would have been a face saving exit perhaps, but it didn't work. No one would buy Boris quitting to spend more time with his young family, and any reason needs to be semi plausible. End of Covid? Doesn't work as his whole deal has been to get through it and then level us up, not merely get us through it.

    No, an undignified exist, now or later, seems the only option. Hence why he may as well stay on to the next election - if he is going to go down, might as well be the public that do it, and who knows, he could still eke it out.
    My bet now is he will be VONC’d and he will lose. And maybe in a way that has a dignity of its own. He fought and lost, so he departs

    And it will be another dramatic chapter in the 7 trillion dollar memoirs

    Not so dramatic as the one which covers when he reclaims his US citizenship and makes his run for the White House.
    He can’t. Now he’s renounced it he needs to get back in the queue/line with everyone else.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,273
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Yes, me too

    @MaxPB made a good point on the last thread. The Savile thing looks like classic Crosby, but maybe it was totally mishandled by Boris, because he’s not functioning at even 50% capacity

    Because there are some questions to be asked about Starmer’s term as DPP, on various points, but the way Boris did it was blundering oafish and just damn ugly. Making it easy for Starmer to be aggrieved and making Boris look so bad he has had to say sorry 3 days later

    This is just crap basic politics, and the old Boris - the funny, campaigning Boris - would not have made these egregious errors

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Have to hold my hand up, genuinely did not think we'd get any letters (or equivalent actions, like an official resigning) over the Starmer attack.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Yes, me too

    @MaxPB made a good point on the last thread. The Savile thing looks like classic Crosby, but maybe it was totally mishandled by Boris, because he’s not functioning at even 50% capacity

    Because there are some questions to be asked about Starmer’s term as DPP, on various points, but the way Boris did it was blundering oafish and just damn ugly. Making it easy for Starmer to be aggrieved and making Boris look so bad he has had to say sorry 3 days later

    This is just crap basic politics, and the old Boris - the funny, campaigning Boris - would not have made these egregious errors

    It's not a Crosby thing.

    Savile damages the Tories as much as Labour, all those photos of Savile with Thatcher, who gave him a knighthood etc.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,820
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Hmm, that's a thought, but it depends which summer you mean. Late 2020 yes, most certainly, late 2021 is pushing it surely.
    Summer 2021 still be ok. You can absolutely say I have battled for over a year, as I am sure you have witnessed I have got better at times, then I have a particularly busy or demanding period and I regress. I feel deep empathy with all those suffering in a similar manner...Yadda yadda yadda.

    Now if he did say that I think he was probably lying / overplaying it. But 2020, he absolutely wasn't with it at times.
    Oh yes, I was wondering if he got covid deafness and wouldn't admit it - the non sequiturs in response to questions. But surely he should have taken sick leave. Mind this is the chap whose idea of health policy was to shake hands with a whole hospital, and then go and visit HMtQ when he went poorly.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited February 2022
    Good on Mirza if this was the reason for her resigning. Good on her in any event for resigning and saying this about Johnson's gutter politics Savile slur (since it needs saying) even if her reason for resigning was something else - eg that she'd become a marginal figure and judged her influence likely to be even more diminished with the threatened "Number 10 revamp".
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    Just Go, BoJo

    This is now unbearable

    Late to the party, but welcome all the same. Put your bottle of Moldovan plonk over there...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    In other partygate-related news: Sheffield City Council have appointed an investigator to look into Kate Josephs, its chief exec

    She was head of Cabinet Office covid-19 taskforce and was thrown a leaving do in dec 2020.

    Now under Met investigation

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/14/former-government-head-responsible-covid-rules-held-boozy-leaving/
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Hmm, that's a thought, but it depends which summer you mean. Late 2020 yes, most certainly, late 2021 is pushing it surely.
    Summer 2021 still be ok. You can absolutely say I have battled for over a year, as I am sure you have witnessed I have got better at times, then I have a particularly busy or demanding period and I regress. I feel deep empathy with all those suffering in a similar manner...Yadda yadda yadda.

    Now if he did say that I think he was probably lying / overplaying it. But 2020, he absolutely wasn't with it at times. Simple softball questions at those press conferences at times couldn't remember what they said 15s ago, forgot their name etc.
    It's all been downhill for Boris since about September 2021. If he had left then, Covid done, vaccinations in progress, Brexit done he would have gone out on a high.

    Instead it's now a question of if and when during which time the reputation of the Tory party as a whole is taking a hit because well nothing is going on.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    kle4 said:

    Have to hold my hand up, genuinely did not think we'd get any letters (or equivalent actions, like an official resigning) over the Starmer attack.

    It was positively a QAnon thing.

    I know some Tory MPs would never go down that route, not only is it bad morally, as the GOP have found, it ends up eating the moderate wing.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    He just cannot say sorry

    Seems someone on here has the same problem

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1489268901234057218?t=w0JFwX3Dpacku_R25tn-yA&s=19
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Yes, me too

    @MaxPB made a good point on the last thread. The Savile thing looks like classic Crosby, but maybe it was totally mishandled by Boris, because he’s not functioning at even 50% capacity

    Because there are some questions to be asked about Starmer’s term as DPP, on various points, but the way Boris did it was blundering oafish and just damn ugly. Making it easy for Starmer to be aggrieved and making Boris look so bad he has had to say sorry 3 days later

    This is just crap basic politics, and the old Boris - the funny, campaigning Boris - would not have made these egregious errors

    I think the Savile thing is more he got flustered and blurted it out. I imagine there have been discussions about how to attack Starmer and his time at CPS has been brought up.

    As I said on previous thread a more sophisticated attack would be "in wake of the scandal of the CPS failure to charge Savile, you took over as DPP but under your leadership the organisation continue to fail on ...more interested in hounding journalists than correctly investigating child sex crimes"

    That is how I imagine Crosby would do it. You have placed the link, set the narrative, but sticking to rough truth of the matter.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    Very clear that Munira Mirza thinks that the PM should go and, by resigning and publishing this letter, she is trying to facilitate that.

    Nearly everyone draws a line at some point.     https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1489270926994722827/photo/1
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Royal Air Force are chasing bears away again, same as yesterday.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/03/raf-scramble-typhoon-second-day-response-aircraft-approaching/
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    I already wanted Boris to go but any lingering reservations have gone out the window with this attack. He needs to go now.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    It turns out there is a cost to smearing your political opponent in an effort to protect yourself. Munira Mirza - who’s been at @BorisJohnson’s side since he was Mayor of London - quits over his attempt to link @Keir_Starmer & Jimmy Saville
    https://twitter.com/bbcr4today/status/1488471412134326275


    Includes a link to Raab perpetuating the smear...
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    There was a load of rubbish on LBC about how wonderful a tactic the Saville “dead cat” was and how it was all apparently true.

    What a load of rubbish - in no case do you use a profiling child sex abuser as some sort of political game.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    The Queen has been pleased to approve the appointment of Andrew Griffith MP as an unpaid Parliamentary Secretary (Minister for Policy and Head of the Prime Minister’s Policy Unit) in the Cabinet Office.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1489271863238959122
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,273
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Yes, me too

    @MaxPB made a good point on the last thread. The Savile thing looks like classic Crosby, but maybe it was totally mishandled by Boris, because he’s not functioning at even 50% capacity

    Because there are some questions to be asked about Starmer’s term as DPP, on various points, but the way Boris did it was blundering oafish and just damn ugly. Making it easy for Starmer to be aggrieved and making Boris look so bad he has had to say sorry 3 days later

    This is just crap basic politics, and the old Boris - the funny, campaigning Boris - would not have made these egregious errors

    It's not a Crosby thing.

    Savile damages the Tories as much as Labour, all those photos of Savile with Thatcher, who gave him a knighthood etc.
    But that supports my argument. If it wasn’t some plan that Boris mishandled, it means this just popped into his head and he launched into it, which is even worse. And he did it badly

    But I don’t buy it, There are focus groups - as I said before. - where this Savile stuff is seen as a black mark against Starmer (dating from 2021). I reckon desperate Tories said to Boris, look, here’s a possible grenade to throw, but be careful, however Boris being in a delusional frame of mine aimed the grenade at the ghost of Jeremy Corbyn and ended up detonating himself
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    kle4 said:

    Have to hold my hand up, genuinely did not think we'd get any letters (or equivalent actions, like an official resigning) over the Starmer attack.

    It was positively a QAnon thing.

    I know some Tory MPs would never go down that route, not only is it bad morally, as the GOP have found, it ends up eating the moderate wing.
    It doesn't just eat the moderate wing. It eats the mainstream wing because they become the new moderates. And then it eats the fairly conservative wing because they become the new moderates. And then it eats the outright conservatives who still believe in decency and democracy because they become the next new moderates.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Hmm, that's a thought, but it depends which summer you mean. Late 2020 yes, most certainly, late 2021 is pushing it surely.
    Summer 2021 still be ok. You can absolutely say I have battled for over a year, as I am sure you have witnessed I have got better at times, then I have a particularly busy or demanding period and I regress. I feel deep empathy with all those suffering in a similar manner...Yadda yadda yadda.

    Now if he did say that I think he was probably lying / overplaying it. But 2020, he absolutely wasn't with it at times. Simple softball questions at those press conferences at times couldn't remember what they said 15s ago, forgot their name etc.
    But why would he have gone then? A couple of months after May 2021 locals and Hartlepool when his fans thought he was going to live and reign forever, the rest of us feared he would, and the lone voice saying that Hartlepool was the peak and the ride down would be faster than anyone thought, was ridiculed? If he is clinging on now why in the name of God would he have gone then when wallpaper was the worst of his worries?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    Leon said:

    But that supports my argument. If it wasn’t some plan that Boris mishandled, it means this just popped into his head and he launched into it, which is even worse. And he did it badly

    He was advised not to do it on Monday. It was planned, and he did it. And fucked up.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    Paul Goodman
    @PaulGoodmanCH
    ·
    40m
    Hard to overstate what a personal rebuff this is to
    @BorisJohnson
    . Mirza is one of his longest-standing, loyal and most senior aides, having first worked with him when he was Mayor of London.

    https://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/1489262277446410244
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Yes, me too

    @MaxPB made a good point on the last thread. The Savile thing looks like classic Crosby, but maybe it was totally mishandled by Boris, because he’s not functioning at even 50% capacity

    Because there are some questions to be asked about Starmer’s term as DPP, on various points, but the way Boris did it was blundering oafish and just damn ugly. Making it easy for Starmer to be aggrieved and making Boris look so bad he has had to say sorry 3 days later

    This is just crap basic politics, and the old Boris - the funny, campaigning Boris - would not have made these egregious errors

    It's not a Crosby thing.

    Savile damages the Tories as much as Labour, all those photos of Savile with Thatcher, who gave him a knighthood etc.
    The Tories still haven't released their child grooming report have they?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,820
    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Hmm, that's a thought, but it depends which summer you mean. Late 2020 yes, most certainly, late 2021 is pushing it surely.
    Summer 2021 still be ok. You can absolutely say I have battled for over a year, as I am sure you have witnessed I have got better at times, then I have a particularly busy or demanding period and I regress. I feel deep empathy with all those suffering in a similar manner...Yadda yadda yadda.

    Now if he did say that I think he was probably lying / overplaying it. But 2020, he absolutely wasn't with it at times.
    Oh yes, I was wondering if he got covid deafness and wouldn't admit it - the non sequiturs in response to questions. But surely he should have taken sick leave. Mind this is the chap whose idea of health policy was to shake hands with a whole hospital, and then go and visit HMtQ when he went poorly.
    Edit: he didn't visit HMtQ of course. I just meant his idea was to do so till he was stopped.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    rottenborough said:

    Paul Goodman
    @PaulGoodmanCH
    ·
    40m
    Hard to overstate what a personal rebuff this is to
    @BorisJohnson
    . Mirza is one of his longest-standing, loyal and most senior aides, having first worked with him when he was Mayor of London.

    https://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/1489262277446410244

    It shows enormous character from this woman to do something so courageous while MPs and Cabinet Ministers hold back. One to watch for the future.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Boris needs a face-saving exit. The revolver on the mahogany table, with a tumbler of Highland Park

    If he’s not careful he will end up like Mussolini or Gadaffi (metaphorically). Not dignified

    He needs some excuse to resign that somehow seems principled. What could it be? Long Covid? He’s left it a bit late to suddenly start saying Oh I’m too ill. But what else is there?

    He missed the long covid boat. He shound have deployed that last summer.
    Yes, because he'd admit he's been unfit to be PM in at least one crucial sense, for a whole year and more [edit] if he now handed in his jotters.
    If he had gone in the summer, he could have claimed, I have been suffering from long COVID, I have good days and bad, I hoped that I would be able to get over it, but after consultation with my doctor they have suggested that high levels of demand placed on any PM is harming any chances of making a full recovery from this appalling illness.

    And the thing is I actually believe this has been the case.
    Yes, me too

    @MaxPB made a good point on the last thread. The Savile thing looks like classic Crosby, but maybe it was totally mishandled by Boris, because he’s not functioning at even 50% capacity

    Because there are some questions to be asked about Starmer’s term as DPP, on various points, but the way Boris did it was blundering oafish and just damn ugly. Making it easy for Starmer to be aggrieved and making Boris look so bad he has had to say sorry 3 days later

    This is just crap basic politics, and the old Boris - the funny, campaigning Boris - would not have made these egregious errors

    It's not a Crosby thing.

    Savile damages the Tories as much as Labour, all those photos of Savile with Thatcher, who gave him a knighthood etc.
    Indeed, my point earlier was that lots of people were ascribing it to Crosby but it doesn't feel like a Crosby tactic. It feels like something dreamt up by someone thinking "what would Lynton do?" and completely fucking up.

    I also don't buy the idea that Boris was flustered and said it in the heat of the moment. This was such an out of the blue attack on a subject no one in their right mind wants to approach (for reasons you outline) that it had to be calculated by Boris or one of his SPADs. Just someone without any real political antenna.
This discussion has been closed.