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Ipsos-MORI net Johnson satisfaction rating slumps to minus 46% – politicalbetting.com

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  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Leon said:

    Rogue Poll. My personal sense is that the Tories are nudging ahead again, and Boris is recovering fast

    My personal sense is that while Boris may have recovered (a bit) with wavering Tory MPs, he certainly hasn't with the great British public. And he won't either. If he survives a VONC there may be a sense of closure but it will be temporary. If he survives til a General Elections the Tories will get a walloping as the voters will just want the back of him. It's basically over.

    (And I don't suppose Dom is likely to give up either. The pratfalls will keep coming.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    In his words - getting on with the job
    Of being photographed. Aye right.
    Actual interview in the media

    And that is how I knew he was here as the Great Orme was in the background
    They have those things called computers that put pics in the background ...
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,296
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20


    What did I say about ten minutes ago?


    I told you: I am plugged into the British national psyche. It is uncanny
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    In his words - getting on with the job
    Of being photographed. Aye right.
    Actual interview in the media

    And that is how I knew he was here as the Great Orme was in the background
    And the great something else in the foreground.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    If she's flying 50 people to Australia that's a waste of public money in itself.
    All diplomatic trips have staff and security and no different if labour were in power

    It is a silly story
    50 people is silly, completely wasteful.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
  • rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    I have it on good authority that if Heathrow could pay to have its own officers at passport control, it would do so. But they have to be Border Force instead.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited January 2022
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    FPT, @MaxPB said there were only 1.5 million on UC.

    The actual figure is 5.7 million. The roll out is roughly 60% complete, so the eventual figure could be around 9.5 million.

    Of the 5.7 million, 1.7 million are searching for work. Another 1.3 million are expected to search for more work or prepare for it, for a total of 3 million.

    There is a reasonably strong positive correlation between being on unemployment related benefits and labour vote share, last I checked. I might run that code on UC only and see what crops up.

    So 1.7m people are affected by this policy then? I thought it was 1.5m at last count due to a big fall in claimants, but sure even at 1.7m people it's not a huge number directly and as I said, indirectly people tend to be in favour of fewer unemployed/freeloaders/scroungers (delete as appropriate). Whether or not it's a good policy is up for debate, I don't think it's going to hurt Rishi as HYFUD likes to claim, though. The most anti-scrounger people are working poor and lower-middle income people, what a lot of us would term red wall voters.
    It is hardly scrounging to apply for jobs matching your skillset for 3 months before having to widen your search to still claim benefits after recent redundancy. Sunak now wants to slash that to just 1 month.

    For all but the poorest and unskilled, for whom it will make no difference, this would be a worry if they ever lost their job and had few savings. Highly skilled and medium skilled workers would have to apply for unskilled, low pay jobs after just a month of claiming

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    Heathrow is pretty efficient to get airside, but the border is variable. When the e-gates are working it's not an issue for basically anyone coming from the e-gates approved countries. When they aren't it can take literally hours to get through. I've waited 6 hours before in the UK queue and when we got to the desk the border person said my wife would have to go and queue up separately because she's a Swiss citizen and needs to go into the non-UK queue. I bitched at him and eventually he scanned her passport and let us through, but said that from then we should queue separately. Idiot.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    In his words - getting on with the job
    Of being photographed. Aye right.
    Actual interview in the media

    And that is how I knew he was here as the Great Orme was in the background
    They have those things called computers that put pics in the background ...
    I know I am aged but not that aged or stupid not to recognise a live broadcast from my home county
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,296

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    If she's flying 50 people to Australia that's a waste of public money in itself.
    Interesting to see another negative briefing out about Liz Truss splashing the cash. Someone trying to damage her leadership chances?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    rkrkrk said:

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    If she's flying 50 people to Australia that's a waste of public money in itself.
    Interesting to see another negative briefing out about Liz Truss splashing the cash. Someone trying to damage her leadership chances?
    Team Boris, I'd guess.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    In his words - getting on with the job
    Of being photographed. Aye right.
    Actual interview in the media

    And that is how I knew he was here as the Great Orme was in the background
    They have those things called computers that put pics in the background ...
    I know I am aged but not that aged or stupid not to recognise a live broadcast from my home county
    Fair enough!
  • Leon said:

    Rogue Poll. My personal sense is that the Tories are nudging ahead again, and Boris is recovering fast

    My personal sense is that while Boris may have recovered (a bit) with wavering Tory MPs, he certainly hasn't with the great British public. And he won't either. If he survives a VONC there may be a sense of closure but it will be temporary. If he survives til a General Elections the Tories will get a walloping as the voters will just want the back of him. It's basically over.

    (And I don't suppose Dom is likely to give up either. The pratfalls will keep coming.)
    There was a report that Sue Gray has demanded Cummings hands over all the information he has and maybe that is why photos have been submitted
  • HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    Must be a rogue poll, an outlier.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    eek said:

    One for TSE

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60158264

    Lampard is now favourite to get the Everton job so I suspect the story is going to go

    Lampard gets the job
    Everton are relegated (highly likely given the issues, the time left to fix things and Newcastle's spending)
    Rooney arrives in the Summer to return them to glory.

    Nah, I reckon Everton will stay up.
    Heathener said:

    In a way I find HY's attitude rather comforting. If enough tories don't think they now have a problem that's all the better for the Opposition.

    It was exactly the same in 1992-7. People thought that because John Major had pulled the cat out of the bag at the last minute with his stunning, and totally surprising, victory in 1992 that he would repeat the feat five years later.

    Stay arrogant and myopic. Suits me.

    They say Tories have but two states of mind: complacency, and panic.

    Many of them are panicking.

    Some of them are complacent.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    Proof than Johnson is electoral catnip, and hats off to you for promoting the narrative.

    Johnson beating Omicron this week has probably helped too.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    I have it on good authority that if Heathrow could pay to have its own officers at passport control, it would do so. But they have to be Border Force instead.
    It’s baffling. Same the last time I flew to the US. Rich country, one and a half hour queues, three quarters of the booths closed. And not to do with covid paperwork - that was all done by the airlines. And, as has been said, it’s bad for our reputation.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    I'm not going to click the link because the indy website is a hot mess of adverts and popups, so perhaps someone can bravely don a tin hat and delve in to tell me what's wrong with flying Quantas?
    "Scheduled flights were available for the same itinerary, but it is understood the private flight was chosen for ‘security considerations’ amid fears that conversations could be overheard by other passengers."
    Colour me wholly unconvinced.
    No idea about the economics of private flights versus public, but the given excuse sounds flimsy.
    Also - 50 people means 50 x the risk of a covid foulup (someone being negative but incubating). Which would be undiplomatic.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    eek said:

    There seems to be a report on gambling companies and their tracking of customers out

    https://twitter.com/cleanupgambling/status/1486595809038770176

    I should add the report is useful just to see what data is being collected - it's a surprising amount being fed to a lot of different companies.

    https://cleanupgambling.com/news/cracked-labs
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    Must be a rogue poll, an outlier.
    The Tories are odds on with all the bookies to get most seats at the next election.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Heathener said:

    In a way I find HY's attitude rather comforting. If enough tories don't think they now have a problem that's all the better for the Opposition.

    It was exactly the same in 1992-7. People thought that because John Major had pulled the cat out of the bag at the last minute with his stunning, and totally surprising, victory in 1992 that he would repeat the feat five years later.

    Stay arrogant and myopic. Suits me.

    Yes.
    And was recently watching the election night coverage from 1997.
    That expectation was only extinguished with the exit poll for some
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    Heathrow is pretty efficient to get airside, but the border is variable. When the e-gates are working it's not an issue for basically anyone coming from the e-gates approved countries. When they aren't it can take literally hours to get through. I've waited 6 hours before in the UK queue and when we got to the desk the border person said my wife would have to go and queue up separately because she's a Swiss citizen and needs to go into the non-UK queue. I bitched at him and eventually he scanned her passport and let us through, but said that from then we should queue separately. Idiot.
    When the e-gates are open, but merely temperamental, I’ve had good luck asking the attendant if I can just try another e-gate lane rather than get dumped into the big queue. Both times they have said yes, and both times the new gate was fine.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Do we have the tables for this poll

    Fieldwork 4th to 21st January? Is that normal

    9% would seem right over that time period

    We could do with another poll where fieldwork was this last week
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    I have it on good authority that if Heathrow could pay to have its own officers at passport control, it would do so. But they have to be Border Force instead.
    Being 1 of the 3 Border Force staff at Durham Tees on a Friday night must have been 1 of the cushiest jobs available. It was literally letting in the same 100 people every week
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    If she's flying 50 people to Australia that's a waste of public money in itself.
    All diplomatic trips have staff and security and no different if labour were in power

    It is a silly story
    I don't agree. The restaurant thing was a silly story. Clearly if you are entertaining foreign dignitaries then you should be able to take them to a decent restaurant.

    This insistence on flying around the world on the part of Johnson and co by private plane seems to be rooted in vanity. But I'm not sure it is a good look. In fact, it looks more like a misjudgement, given the salience of the environment as a political issue, and the fact that the same politicians who are flying around the world by private plane at great financial and environmental cost are also rolling out green taxes and a net zero agenda, impacting adversely on things like energy bills and the cost of motoring.


  • Do we have the tables for this poll

    Fieldwork 4th to 21st January? Is that normal

    9% would seem right over that time period

    We could do with another poll where fieldwork was this last week

    This seems more upto date

    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?t=9WvfOvQ9nNd-LWwpF7DLWA&s=19
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    darkage said:

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    If she's flying 50 people to Australia that's a waste of public money in itself.
    All diplomatic trips have staff and security and no different if labour were in power

    It is a silly story
    I don't agree. The restaurant thing was a silly story. Clearly if you are entertaining foreign dignitaries then you should be able to take them to a decent restaurant.

    This insistence on flying around the world on the part of Johnson and co by private plane seems to be rooted in vanity. But I'm not sure it is a good look. In fact, it looks more like a misjudgement, given the salience of the environment as a political issue, and the fact that the same politicians who are flying around the world by private plane at great financial and environmental cost are also rolling out green taxes and a net zero agenda, impacting adversely on things like energy bills and the cost of motoring.


    In other words, like parties during lockdown.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    dixiedean said:

    Heathener said:

    In a way I find HY's attitude rather comforting. If enough tories don't think they now have a problem that's all the better for the Opposition.

    It was exactly the same in 1992-7. People thought that because John Major had pulled the cat out of the bag at the last minute with his stunning, and totally surprising, victory in 1992 that he would repeat the feat five years later.

    Stay arrogant and myopic. Suits me.

    Yes.
    And was recently watching the election night coverage from 1997.
    That expectation was only extinguished with the exit poll for some
    1997 was my best night in Politics ever.

    I did enjoy the exit poll release in 2017 too
  • algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    Must be a rogue poll, an outlier.
    The Tories are odds on with all the bookies to get most seats at the next election.

    Yes, but Johnson is odds on not to be leading them at the next election, and those are not unrelated.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
    Is it really necessary to bring up Sunak's height yet again? There are many things you could criticise him for, but his height isn't one of them.

    It really is moronic – I'm on the short side of six foot but the tallness or shortness of politicians is entirely irrelevant to my vote.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324
    edited January 2022
    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    Heathrow is pretty efficient to get airside, but the border is variable. When the e-gates are working it's not an issue for basically anyone coming from the e-gates approved countries. When they aren't it can take literally hours to get through. I've waited 6 hours before in the UK queue and when we got to the desk the border person said my wife would have to go and queue up separately because she's a Swiss citizen and needs to go into the non-UK queue. I bitched at him and eventually he scanned her passport and let us through, but said that from then we should queue separately. Idiot.
    You think security at Heathrow is good?

    I recently travelled to Johannesburg from London via Zurich. I went through all the normal security checks without problem.

    At Johannesburg I attempted to board a local plane down to Pietermaritzburg but the girl on security was troubled by my hand luggage, a small attache case. She emptied it, shook it out, and listened to my words of reassurance but she was convinced 'there's something in there'. She then took a penknife to one of the penholder pockets and withdrew a four inch long bullet. I recognised it immediately. It came from my Dad's war momentos and I'd put it in the case a few months previous intending to have it checked out by a local gunsmith, but I'd forgotten all about it and it wasn't visible so I overlooked it when I decided to use the case on the trip.

    Happily the SA police accepted my story but it was an awkward moment, and left me pondering how this live round had escaped scrutiny at Heathrow/Zurich/Joburg.

    I think the round was for a WW2 machine gun but I'll never find out now because I left it with the cops in Joburg.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Rogue Poll. My personal sense is that the Tories are nudging ahead again, and Boris is recovering fast

    This worries me - the first ripples of a sea change in British politics often manifest in Sri Lanka.
    No, the first ripples of a sea change in UK politics usually manifest in MY HEAD, wherever I may be

    I distinctly remember being by the Iguazu Falls in Argentina when I realised, correctly, that Boris was heading for an 80 seat majority

    It was about an hour after the release of the exit poll, when I got back to my hotel and checked
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    Proof than Johnson is electoral catnip, and hats off to you for promoting the narrative.

    Johnson beating Omicron this week has probably helped too.
    And he's about to see off Putin, force him to cave. Or bravely fight him if he doesn't cave. Either way it's go go go for the Magnificent Muscly Man!
  • algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    Must be a rogue poll, an outlier.
    The Tories are odds on with all the bookies to get most seats at the next election.

    Since there are only 2 parties who realistically can win "most seats", it is possible for both to be odds-on, say 10/11 (or 5/6 for greedy bookies) each.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    Heathrow is pretty efficient to get airside, but the border is variable. When the e-gates are working it's not an issue for basically anyone coming from the e-gates approved countries. When they aren't it can take literally hours to get through. I've waited 6 hours before in the UK queue and when we got to the desk the border person said my wife would have to go and queue up separately because she's a Swiss citizen and needs to go into the non-UK queue. I bitched at him and eventually he scanned her passport and let us through, but said that from then we should queue separately. Idiot.
    You think security at Heathrow is good?

    I recently travelled to Johannesburg from London via Zurich. I went through all the normal security checks without problem.

    At Johannesburg I attempted to board a local plane down to Pietermaritzburg but the girl on security was troubled by my hand luggage, a small attache case. She emptied it, shook it out, and listened to my words of reassurance but she was convinced 'there's something in there'. She then took a penknife to one of the penholder pockets and withdrew a four inch long bullet. I recognised it immediately. It came from my Dad's war momentoes and I'd put it in the case a few months previous intending to have it checked out by a local gunsmith, but I'd forgotten all about it and it wasn't visible so I overlooked it when I decided to use the case on the trip.

    Happily the SA police accepted my story but it was an awkward moment, and left me pondering how this live round had escaped scrutiny at Heathrow/Zurich/Joburg.

    I think the round was for a WW2 machine gun but I'll never find out now because I left it with the cops in Joburg.

    Presumably because you didn't have the correct gun to fire it!
  • Leon said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
    Is it really necessary to bring up Sunak's height yet again? There are many things you could criticise him for, but his height isn't one of them.

    It really is moronic – I'm on the short side of six foot but the tallness or shortness of politicians is entirely irrelevant to my vote.
    The bloke's got a good two or three inches on me, to be fair.

    I think the same is true in terms of his height as well.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    Leon said:

    Rogue Poll. My personal sense is that the Tories are nudging ahead again, and Boris is recovering fast

    My personal sense is that while Boris may have recovered (a bit) with wavering Tory MPs, he certainly hasn't with the great British public. And he won't either. If he survives a VONC there may be a sense of closure but it will be temporary. If he survives til a General Elections the Tories will get a walloping as the voters will just want the back of him. It's basically over.

    (And I don't suppose Dom is likely to give up either. The pratfalls will keep coming.)
    There was a report that Sue Gray has demanded Cummings hands over all the information he has and maybe that is why photos have been submitted
    Not wanting to quibble, but does she have the authority to do that? AFAIAA Cummings is a private citizen and she is neither a lawyer nor a warranted officer.
    Can Sue Gray demand my phone?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited January 2022

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    If she's flying 50 people to Australia that's a waste of public money in itself.
    All diplomatic trips have staff and security and no different if labour were in power

    It is a silly story
    Not to mention that it’s a 24 hour trip in each direction, so there would be an expectation of work being done in flight, requiring secure communication lines etc. It might be a good idea for the Foreign Secretary to receive several sensitive briefings per day as to the situation in Ukraine at the moment, for example.

    Booking out biz class on a commercial jet wouldn’t be a million miles away from £500k anyway, and they’ll get some of the costs back from charging journalists and other non-government staff who were on the plane.

    If it were Ms Truss and her assistant, with only the pilots for company and enjoying the G&T for two days, then the complainants might have a point. These delegations are always dozens of people.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    Do we have the tables for this poll

    Fieldwork 4th to 21st January? Is that normal

    9% would seem right over that time period

    We could do with another poll where fieldwork was this last week

    This seems more upto date

    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?t=9WvfOvQ9nNd-LWwpF7DLWA&s=19
    Oh yes I see Ipsos Mori in the header is more than 3 weeks old

    Survation one seems to be more like you would expect given SKS peaked 8 days ago!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Combining the lists, here's the all time worst ratings for either party's leaders across 45 years of MORI polls:
    1.Corbyn (Sep 19): -60
    2.Major (Aug 94): -59
    3=Thatcher (Mar 90): -56
    3= Foot (Aug 82): -56
    5. Brown (Jul 08): -51
    6. Johnson (Jan 22): -46

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1486713816356249612
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    I'm afraid I don't buy the argument that Conservative Party voters have given up on the party forever. The latest polls suggest some are drifting back, albeit tentatively. Think it is too early to be making these kinds of sweeping statements.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1486664408046702596
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
    Is it really necessary to bring up Sunak's height yet again? There are many things you could criticise him for, but his height isn't one of them.

    It really is moronic – I'm on the short side of six foot but the tallness or shortness of politicians is entirely irrelevant to my vote.
    It’s not a fucking criticism. It’s just a fact, Voters often vote for the most superficial of reasons. They don’t like bald men, and they don’t like short men. They’re not that keen on shouty women

    Don’t blame me, blame the intrinsic failings of democracy
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    dixiedean said:

    Heathener said:

    In a way I find HY's attitude rather comforting. If enough tories don't think they now have a problem that's all the better for the Opposition.

    It was exactly the same in 1992-7. People thought that because John Major had pulled the cat out of the bag at the last minute with his stunning, and totally surprising, victory in 1992 that he would repeat the feat five years later.

    Stay arrogant and myopic. Suits me.

    Yes.
    And was recently watching the election night coverage from 1997.
    That expectation was only extinguished with the exit poll for some
    1997 was my best night in Politics ever.

    I did enjoy the exit poll release in 2017 too
    They were also my top 2 - 1997 first, 2017 a close second.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324
    edited January 2022
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    Heathrow is pretty efficient to get airside, but the border is variable. When the e-gates are working it's not an issue for basically anyone coming from the e-gates approved countries. When they aren't it can take literally hours to get through. I've waited 6 hours before in the UK queue and when we got to the desk the border person said my wife would have to go and queue up separately because she's a Swiss citizen and needs to go into the non-UK queue. I bitched at him and eventually he scanned her passport and let us through, but said that from then we should queue separately. Idiot.
    You think security at Heathrow is good?

    I recently travelled to Johannesburg from London via Zurich. I went through all the normal security checks without problem.

    At Johannesburg I attempted to board a local plane down to Pietermaritzburg but the girl on security was troubled by my hand luggage, a small attache case. She emptied it, shook it out, and listened to my words of reassurance but she was convinced 'there's something in there'. She then took a penknife to one of the penholder pockets and withdrew a four inch long bullet. I recognised it immediately. It came from my Dad's war momentoes and I'd put it in the case a few months previous intending to have it checked out by a local gunsmith, but I'd forgotten all about it and it wasn't visible so I overlooked it when I decided to use the case on the trip.

    Happily the SA police accepted my story but it was an awkward moment, and left me pondering how this live round had escaped scrutiny at Heathrow/Zurich/Joburg.

    I think the round was for a WW2 machine gun but I'll never find out now because I left it with the cops in Joburg.

    Presumably because you didn't have the correct gun to fire it!
    SA Police are widely maligned and probably with good reason but the two I dealt with were perfect gents. My SA friends to a man and woman said they were surprised they didn't at least put me in the cells until I offered a few hundred rand 'compensation', but no. They were faultlessly civil and proper.

    I've had worse experiences with the fuzz over here.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    dixiedean said:

    Heathener said:

    In a way I find HY's attitude rather comforting. If enough tories don't think they now have a problem that's all the better for the Opposition.

    It was exactly the same in 1992-7. People thought that because John Major had pulled the cat out of the bag at the last minute with his stunning, and totally surprising, victory in 1992 that he would repeat the feat five years later.

    Stay arrogant and myopic. Suits me.

    Yes.
    And was recently watching the election night coverage from 1997.
    That expectation was only extinguished with the exit poll for some
    I remember meeting some girls in the university bar on the late afternoon of 1 May 1997, they were all dressed in red and had been out door knocking all day and for every day the week prior.

    They were completely nervous and wouldn't even entertain my suggestion that they might walk it. They were downing halves of lager and shots of vodka to settle their nerves. Anyway, one of them invited me to a house party that night, which I attended.

    At the party, nobody even wanted to believe the exit poll. It was only after enough seats had fallen that the dancing began.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
    Is it really necessary to bring up Sunak's height yet again? There are many things you could criticise him for, but his height isn't one of them.

    It really is moronic – I'm on the short side of six foot but the tallness or shortness of politicians is entirely irrelevant to my vote.
    It’s not a fucking criticism. It’s just a fact, Voters often vote for the most superficial of reasons. They don’t like bald men, and they don’t like short men. They’re not that keen on shouty women

    Don’t blame me, blame the intrinsic failings of democracy
    My favorite was the guy who wouldn't vote for Neil Kinnock because of the color of his hair. He had nothing against redheads, it's just that he thought it would be awkward when he had to travel to hot, sunny places. 'Redheads burn easily' he said, in all seriousness.

    Well, I suppose it's true, but....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
    Is it really necessary to bring up Sunak's height yet again? There are many things you could criticise him for, but his height isn't one of them.

    It really is moronic – I'm on the short side of six foot but the tallness or shortness of politicians is entirely irrelevant to my vote.
    It’s not a fucking criticism. It’s just a fact, Voters often vote for the most superficial of reasons. They don’t like bald men, and they don’t like short men. They’re not that keen on shouty women

    Don’t blame me, blame the intrinsic failings of democracy
    Again, is there any evidence, from the UK, that the height of the candidate makes much difference to the outcome? I keep reading this but I’m yet to see any data supporting it.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Heathener said:

    In a way I find HY's attitude rather comforting. If enough tories don't think they now have a problem that's all the better for the Opposition.

    It was exactly the same in 1992-7. People thought that because John Major had pulled the cat out of the bag at the last minute with his stunning, and totally surprising, victory in 1992 that he would repeat the feat five years later.

    Stay arrogant and myopic. Suits me.

    Yes.
    And was recently watching the election night coverage from 1997.
    That expectation was only extinguished with the exit poll for some
    1997 was my best night in Politics ever.

    I did enjoy the exit poll release in 2017 too
    They were also my top 2 - 1997 first, 2017 a close second.
    Me too things can only get better really resonated

    Securuty, prosperity and erm and er erm and erm respect not so much

    https://twitter.com/olafdoesstuff/status/1478344439143800832
  • The Ipsos MORI fieldwork was the 19th to 25th of January inclusive.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    A 5% lead isn't enough for Labour at this stage. Not good for Starmer at all.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    Heathrow is pretty efficient to get airside, but the border is variable. When the e-gates are working it's not an issue for basically anyone coming from the e-gates approved countries. When they aren't it can take literally hours to get through. I've waited 6 hours before in the UK queue and when we got to the desk the border person said my wife would have to go and queue up separately because she's a Swiss citizen and needs to go into the non-UK queue. I bitched at him and eventually he scanned her passport and let us through, but said that from then we should queue separately. Idiot.
    You think security at Heathrow is good?

    I recently travelled to Johannesburg from London via Zurich. I went through all the normal security checks without problem.

    At Johannesburg I attempted to board a local plane down to Pietermaritzburg but the girl on security was troubled by my hand luggage, a small attache case. She emptied it, shook it out, and listened to my words of reassurance but she was convinced 'there's something in there'. She then took a penknife to one of the penholder pockets and withdrew a four inch long bullet. I recognised it immediately. It came from my Dad's war momentoes and I'd put it in the case a few months previous intending to have it checked out by a local gunsmith, but I'd forgotten all about it and it wasn't visible so I overlooked it when I decided to use the case on the trip.

    Happily the SA police accepted my story but it was an awkward moment, and left me pondering how this live round had escaped scrutiny at Heathrow/Zurich/Joburg.

    I think the round was for a WW2 machine gun but I'll never find out now because I left it with the cops in Joburg.

    Presumably because you didn't have the correct gun to fire it!
    SA Police are widely maligned and probably with good reason but the two I dealt with were perfect gents. My SA friends to a man and woman said they were surprised they didn't at least put me in the cells until I offered a few hundred rand 'compensation', but no. They were faultlessly civil and proper.

    I've had worse experiences with the fuzz over here.
    With all due respect, you consider Cape Town to be “reasonably safe” despite it having the highest murder rate in Africa, the highest murder rate outside the Americas, and a top ten ranking for global homicides

    https://www.worldatlas.com/cities/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Scott_xP said:

    Combining the lists, here's the all time worst ratings for either party's leaders across 45 years of MORI polls:
    1.Corbyn (Sep 19): -60
    2.Major (Aug 94): -59
    3=Thatcher (Mar 90): -56
    3= Foot (Aug 82): -56
    5. Brown (Jul 08): -51
    6. Johnson (Jan 22): -46

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1486713816356249612

    So Boris not even in the top 5!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    edited January 2022

    The Ipsos MORI fieldwork was the 19th to 25th of January inclusive.

    Why does their graph say VI -Jan 4 Jan 22 just a mistake?

    https://twitter.com/KellyIpsosMORI/status/1486699574211358723/photo/1
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    FPT, @MaxPB said there were only 1.5 million on UC.

    The actual figure is 5.7 million. The roll out is roughly 60% complete, so the eventual figure could be around 9.5 million.

    Of the 5.7 million, 1.7 million are searching for work. Another 1.3 million are expected to search for more work or prepare for it, for a total of 3 million.

    There is a reasonably strong positive correlation between being on unemployment related benefits and labour vote share, last I checked. I might run that code on UC only and see what crops up.

    So 1.7m people are affected by this policy then? I thought it was 1.5m at last count due to a big fall in claimants, but sure even at 1.7m people it's not a huge number directly and as I said, indirectly people tend to be in favour of fewer unemployed/freeloaders/scroungers (delete as appropriate). Whether or not it's a good policy is up for debate, I don't think it's going to hurt Rishi as HYFUD likes to claim, though. The most anti-scrounger people are working poor and lower-middle income people, what a lot of us would term red wall voters.
    I don't disagree, though I think it will be more like 3 million. This has bedroom tax/zero-hours contract written all over it.

    Fwiw, I loved my zero hours contract at uni. I flatly refused to attend a weekend shift before an exam, and was promptly given as many hours as I wanted after they finished.

    They are great if there is huge demand for (your) labour, as there is now. If not...

    That's also why furlough/ £20 uplift was such smart politics. It was the only time unemployment benefits would've hurt lots of Tory-minded people.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    Proof than Johnson is electoral catnip, and hats off to you for promoting the narrative.

    Johnson beating Omicron this week has probably helped too.
    And he's about to see off Putin, force him to cave. Or bravely fight him if he doesn't cave. Either way it's go go go for the Magnificent Muscly Man!
    I'm resigned to the stronger, faster even more brazen Johnson. Happy days.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Sandpit said:

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    If she's flying 50 people to Australia that's a waste of public money in itself.
    All diplomatic trips have staff and security and no different if labour were in power

    It is a silly story
    Not to mention that it’s a 24 hour trip in each direction, so there would be an expectation of work being done in flight, requiring secure communication lines etc. It might be a good idea for the Foreign Secretary to receive several sensitive briefings per day as to the situation in Ukraine at the moment, for example.

    Booking out biz class on a commercial jet wouldn’t be a million miles away from £500k anyway, and they’ll get some of the costs back from charging journalists and other non-government staff who were on the plane.

    If it were Ms Truss and her assistant, with only the pilots for company and enjoying the G&T for two days, then the complainants might have a point. These delegations are always dozens of people.
    Possibly. It is right that questions are asked, the Independent are on to something here.

    Would the same considerations have applied for Johnsons return trip to London from COP26?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/03/johnson-takes-private-jet-from-cop26-to-london-to-attend-dinner

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited January 2022

    The Ipsos MORI fieldwork was the 19th to 25th of January inclusive.

    Why does their graph say VI - 4 Jan 22 just a mistake?

    https://twitter.com/KellyIpsosMORI/status/1486699574211358723/photo/1
    No, the January 04 refers to January 2004, what that is the voting intention from January 2004 onwards.

    They chose that month because that's when the Hutton report was published.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Arguing the toss over polling is PB at its most tedious. One poll is bad for Boris, one is marginally better for him. So what? The polls are irrelevant because he’s going nowhere come rain or shine. The PCP are hopeless.
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Combining the lists, here's the all time worst ratings for either party's leaders across 45 years of MORI polls:
    1.Corbyn (Sep 19): -60
    2.Major (Aug 94): -59
    3=Thatcher (Mar 90): -56
    3= Foot (Aug 82): -56
    5. Brown (Jul 08): -51
    6. Johnson (Jan 22): -46

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1486713816356249612

    So Boris not even in the top 5!
    Give it time.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Combining the lists, here's the all time worst ratings for either party's leaders across 45 years of MORI polls:
    1.Corbyn (Sep 19): -60
    2.Major (Aug 94): -59
    3=Thatcher (Mar 90): -56
    3= Foot (Aug 82): -56
    5. Brown (Jul 08): -51
    6. Johnson (Jan 22): -46

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1486713816356249612

    So Boris not even in the top 5!
    Yet.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    Heathrow is pretty efficient to get airside, but the border is variable. When the e-gates are working it's not an issue for basically anyone coming from the e-gates approved countries. When they aren't it can take literally hours to get through. I've waited 6 hours before in the UK queue and when we got to the desk the border person said my wife would have to go and queue up separately because she's a Swiss citizen and needs to go into the non-UK queue. I bitched at him and eventually he scanned her passport and let us through, but said that from then we should queue separately. Idiot.
    You think security at Heathrow is good?

    I recently travelled to Johannesburg from London via Zurich. I went through all the normal security checks without problem.

    At Johannesburg I attempted to board a local plane down to Pietermaritzburg but the girl on security was troubled by my hand luggage, a small attache case. She emptied it, shook it out, and listened to my words of reassurance but she was convinced 'there's something in there'. She then took a penknife to one of the penholder pockets and withdrew a four inch long bullet. I recognised it immediately. It came from my Dad's war momentoes and I'd put it in the case a few months previous intending to have it checked out by a local gunsmith, but I'd forgotten all about it and it wasn't visible so I overlooked it when I decided to use the case on the trip.

    Happily the SA police accepted my story but it was an awkward moment, and left me pondering how this live round had escaped scrutiny at Heathrow/Zurich/Joburg.

    I think the round was for a WW2 machine gun but I'll never find out now because I left it with the cops in Joburg.

    Presumably because you didn't have the correct gun to fire it!
    SA Police are widely maligned and probably with good reason but the two I dealt with were perfect gents. My SA friends to a man and woman said they were surprised they didn't at least put me in the cells until I offered a few hundred rand 'compensation', but no. They were faultlessly civil and proper.

    I've had worse experiences with the fuzz over here.
    With all due respect, you consider Cape Town to be “reasonably safe” despite it having the highest murder rate in Africa, the highest murder rate outside the Americas, and a top ten ranking for global homicides

    https://www.worldatlas.com/cities/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world.html
    That will be because of the Cape Flats. When I lived in SA (97), Cape Town around the City Centre was reasonably safe, in SA terms, and certainly well policed. However, the Cape Flats were considered far more dangerous than Soweto and Alexandra in Jo'Burg (all relative though).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Do we have the tables for this poll

    Fieldwork 4th to 21st January? Is that normal

    9% would seem right over that time period

    We could do with another poll where fieldwork was this last week

    Have you joined the Pidcock Popular Front yet? Power to the people!
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Combining the lists, here's the all time worst ratings for either party's leaders across 45 years of MORI polls:
    1.Corbyn (Sep 19): -60
    2.Major (Aug 94): -59
    3=Thatcher (Mar 90): -56
    3= Foot (Aug 82): -56
    5. Brown (Jul 08): -51
    6. Johnson (Jan 22): -46

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1486713816356249612

    So Boris not even in the top 5!
    I thought that and not sure @Scott_xP realised it
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    If she's flying 50 people to Australia that's a waste of public money in itself.
    All diplomatic trips have staff and security and no different if labour were in power

    It is a silly story
    Not to mention that it’s a 24 hour trip in each direction, so there would be an expectation of work being done in flight, requiring secure communication lines etc. It might be a good idea for the Foreign Secretary to receive several sensitive briefings per day as to the situation in Ukraine at the moment, for example.

    Booking out biz class on a commercial jet wouldn’t be a million miles away from £500k anyway, and they’ll get some of the costs back from charging journalists and other non-government staff who were on the plane.

    If it were Ms Truss and her assistant, with only the pilots for company and enjoying the G&T for two days, then the complainants might have a point. These delegations are always dozens of people.
    Possibly. It is right that questions are asked, the Independent are on to something here.

    Would the same considerations have applied for Johnsons return trip to London from COP26?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/03/johnson-takes-private-jet-from-cop26-to-london-to-attend-dinner

    I suspect Boris would have preferred that he never heard (and acted upon) the suggestions in that meeting.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    Heathrow is pretty efficient to get airside, but the border is variable. When the e-gates are working it's not an issue for basically anyone coming from the e-gates approved countries. When they aren't it can take literally hours to get through. I've waited 6 hours before in the UK queue and when we got to the desk the border person said my wife would have to go and queue up separately because she's a Swiss citizen and needs to go into the non-UK queue. I bitched at him and eventually he scanned her passport and let us through, but said that from then we should queue separately. Idiot.
    You think security at Heathrow is good?

    I recently travelled to Johannesburg from London via Zurich. I went through all the normal security checks without problem.

    At Johannesburg I attempted to board a local plane down to Pietermaritzburg but the girl on security was troubled by my hand luggage, a small attache case. She emptied it, shook it out, and listened to my words of reassurance but she was convinced 'there's something in there'. She then took a penknife to one of the penholder pockets and withdrew a four inch long bullet. I recognised it immediately. It came from my Dad's war momentoes and I'd put it in the case a few months previous intending to have it checked out by a local gunsmith, but I'd forgotten all about it and it wasn't visible so I overlooked it when I decided to use the case on the trip.

    Happily the SA police accepted my story but it was an awkward moment, and left me pondering how this live round had escaped scrutiny at Heathrow/Zurich/Joburg.

    I think the round was for a WW2 machine gun but I'll never find out now because I left it with the cops in Joburg.

    Presumably because you didn't have the correct gun to fire it!
    SA Police are widely maligned and probably with good reason but the two I dealt with were perfect gents. My SA friends to a man and woman said they were surprised they didn't at least put me in the cells until I offered a few hundred rand 'compensation', but no. They were faultlessly civil and proper.

    I've had worse experiences with the fuzz over here.
    With all due respect, you consider Cape Town to be “reasonably safe” despite it having the highest murder rate in Africa, the highest murder rate outside the Americas, and a top ten ranking for global homicides

    https://www.worldatlas.com/cities/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world.html
    By contrast, so far this month there have been just 2 or 3 homicides in London. That's an amazingly low figure for a city of 9 million people.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    A 5% lead isn't enough for Labour at this stage. Not good for Starmer at all.
    Without being accused of going all HYFUD (and, apologies HYFUD, you get a lot of abuse when you shouldn't), Labour should be having a double-digit lead at this point. What is probably even worse is they are struggling to break past 40%
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
    Is it really necessary to bring up Sunak's height yet again? There are many things you could criticise him for, but his height isn't one of them.

    It really is moronic – I'm on the short side of six foot but the tallness or shortness of politicians is entirely irrelevant to my vote.
    It’s not a fucking criticism. It’s just a fact, Voters often vote for the most superficial of reasons. They don’t like bald men, and they don’t like short men. They’re not that keen on shouty women

    Don’t blame me, blame the intrinsic failings of democracy
    Again, is there any evidence, from the UK, that the height of the candidate makes much difference to the outcome? I keep reading this but I’m yet to see any data supporting it.
    It’s not the UK but it took me 25 seconds to find this. I doubt we are any different


    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/02/19/in-politics-height-matters



    https://digitalcommons.spu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=honorsprojects

    Poland:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229805429_Politicians'_estimated_height_as_an_indicator_of_their_popularity
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Downing St today repeats its refusal that the PM intervened over Nowzad evacuation from Kabul...

    But No 10 refuses to confirm whether PM ever discussed the issue with Trudy Harrison at the time 🤔

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1486674148709523460
    https://twitter.com/kateemccann/status/1486434102127607810
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
    Is it really necessary to bring up Sunak's height yet again? There are many things you could criticise him for, but his height isn't one of them.

    It really is moronic – I'm on the short side of six foot but the tallness or shortness of politicians is entirely irrelevant to my vote.
    It’s not a fucking criticism. It’s just a fact, Voters often vote for the most superficial of reasons. They don’t like bald men, and they don’t like short men. They’re not that keen on shouty women

    Don’t blame me, blame the intrinsic failings of democracy
    It's a betting site. I come here because people don't let their personal values get in the way of their bank balance.

    Recognition of Drakeford's popularity is the best example of this.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    A 5% lead isn't enough for Labour at this stage. Not good for Starmer at all.
    Without being accused of going all HYFUD (and, apologies HYFUD, you get a lot of abuse when you shouldn't), Labour should be having a double-digit lead at this point. What is probably even worse is they are struggling to break past 40%
    Remember that the Lib Dems are now sat at 10-11% rather than the 5-6% they used to get.

    Not all anti-Tory traffic is to Labour.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    I see TSE is correct about fieldwork dates

    Do we know the previous poll dates that are referred to for change purposes

    I see 37% say Labour should get a new leader before the next General Election (was 34% last July), including 28% of Labour voters.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022
    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    A 5% lead isn't enough for Labour at this stage. Not good for Starmer at all.
    Without being accused of going all HYFUD (and, apologies HYFUD, you get a lot of abuse when you shouldn't), Labour should be having a double-digit lead at this point. What is probably even worse is they are struggling to break past 40%
    They did a week to two weeks ago, but the public's attention seems to be shifting. Unless Dom has something dramatic up his sleeve, Johnson could survive at least until May, if not a lot longer.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,785
    Mr. Leon, perhaps, but height doesn't affect competence. Basil II was not a tall man.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    Do we have the tables for this poll

    Fieldwork 4th to 21st January? Is that normal

    9% would seem right over that time period

    We could do with another poll where fieldwork was this last week

    Have you joined the Pidcock Popular Front yet? Power to the people!
    No i am a sleeper agent keeping my real views on SKS under wraps!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    MrEd said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    Heathrow is pretty efficient to get airside, but the border is variable. When the e-gates are working it's not an issue for basically anyone coming from the e-gates approved countries. When they aren't it can take literally hours to get through. I've waited 6 hours before in the UK queue and when we got to the desk the border person said my wife would have to go and queue up separately because she's a Swiss citizen and needs to go into the non-UK queue. I bitched at him and eventually he scanned her passport and let us through, but said that from then we should queue separately. Idiot.
    You think security at Heathrow is good?

    I recently travelled to Johannesburg from London via Zurich. I went through all the normal security checks without problem.

    At Johannesburg I attempted to board a local plane down to Pietermaritzburg but the girl on security was troubled by my hand luggage, a small attache case. She emptied it, shook it out, and listened to my words of reassurance but she was convinced 'there's something in there'. She then took a penknife to one of the penholder pockets and withdrew a four inch long bullet. I recognised it immediately. It came from my Dad's war momentoes and I'd put it in the case a few months previous intending to have it checked out by a local gunsmith, but I'd forgotten all about it and it wasn't visible so I overlooked it when I decided to use the case on the trip.

    Happily the SA police accepted my story but it was an awkward moment, and left me pondering how this live round had escaped scrutiny at Heathrow/Zurich/Joburg.

    I think the round was for a WW2 machine gun but I'll never find out now because I left it with the cops in Joburg.

    Presumably because you didn't have the correct gun to fire it!
    SA Police are widely maligned and probably with good reason but the two I dealt with were perfect gents. My SA friends to a man and woman said they were surprised they didn't at least put me in the cells until I offered a few hundred rand 'compensation', but no. They were faultlessly civil and proper.

    I've had worse experiences with the fuzz over here.
    With all due respect, you consider Cape Town to be “reasonably safe” despite it having the highest murder rate in Africa, the highest murder rate outside the Americas, and a top ten ranking for global homicides

    https://www.worldatlas.com/cities/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world.html
    That will be because of the Cape Flats. When I lived in SA (97), Cape Town around the City Centre was reasonably safe, in SA terms, and certainly well policed. However, the Cape Flats were considered far more dangerous than Soweto and Alexandra in Jo'Burg (all relative though).
    OMG the Cape Flats, Horrific. Like a concentration camp

    However, and sadly, the latest goss I hear from SA-born or linked friends is that even central Cape Town is not great, not any more


    What is amazing is that the worst city in SA for murders is ONLY the tenth worst in the world. The state of the violence in Latin America, especially Mexico, is just mind blowing; This is a society in collapse
  • Mr. Leon, perhaps, but height doesn't affect competence. Basil II was not a tall man.

    And Basil Fawlty, who this just made me think of, was very tall.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    Downing St today repeats its refusal that the PM intervened over Nowzad evacuation from Kabul...

    But No 10 refuses to confirm whether PM ever discussed the issue with Trudy Harrison at the time 🤔

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1486674148709523460
    https://twitter.com/kateemccann/status/1486434102127607810

    Once again Boris is trying to carefully dancing on the head of a very narrow pin.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    If she's flying 50 people to Australia that's a waste of public money in itself.
    All diplomatic trips have staff and security and no different if labour were in power

    It is a silly story
    Not to mention that it’s a 24 hour trip in each direction, so there would be an expectation of work being done in flight, requiring secure communication lines etc. It might be a good idea for the Foreign Secretary to receive several sensitive briefings per day as to the situation in Ukraine at the moment, for example.

    Booking out biz class on a commercial jet wouldn’t be a million miles away from £500k anyway, and they’ll get some of the costs back from charging journalists and other non-government staff who were on the plane.

    If it were Ms Truss and her assistant, with only the pilots for company and enjoying the G&T for two days, then the complainants might have a point. These delegations are always dozens of people.
    Possibly. It is right that questions are asked, the Independent are on to something here.

    Would the same considerations have applied for Johnsons return trip to London from COP26?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/03/johnson-takes-private-jet-from-cop26-to-london-to-attend-dinner

    There’s usually half a story to these things, but the arrangements are not usually made by the ministers directly, rather the civil service from the lead department and the security services. The minister insisting on an additional cost, for unspecified reasons of their own, might be worthy of investigation.

    One additional issue with Australia specifically might have been the Covid protocols - would the whole plane be potentially isolated if a random pax on a commercial flight tested positive on arrival? With a private flight, everyone’s movement can be accounted for in the days before the trip.

    But I will laugh along with everyone else at all the planes in Glasgow for COP26. Hypocrisy at its finest, from everyone who was there. As far as I know, no two leaders even tried to fly on the same plane, no-one except Johnson arrived by train, and as you say he left by plane to London.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    The Ipsos MORI fieldwork was the 19th to 25th of January inclusive.

    Why does their graph say VI - 4 Jan 22 just a mistake?

    https://twitter.com/KellyIpsosMORI/status/1486699574211358723/photo/1
    No, the January 04 refers to January 2004, what that is the voting intention from January 2004 onwards.

    They chose that month because that's when the Hutton report was published.
    Thank you for educating me
  • HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    FPT on LDs:

    I would say mainstream Lib Dem opinion is equidistant from the current manifestation of the Tories, and Corbynism. Even in the last election though, the overriding issue of Brexit pushed more to vote tactically for Labour than for the Tories.

    With Starmer heading Labour they are now clearly closer to the Lib Dems than the government is. To bring them back into equidistance you'd need something like a Rory Stewart-led Tory party with a positive attitude to Europe and the JRMs, Patels, Raabs and the rest of that shower in the backbench wilderness.

    Yes but that risks Farage coming back to lead RefUK and the Tories being replaced by RefUK as the main opposition if Stewart came back on a BINO Brexit ticket
    I thought you said Brexit is done.
    Story keeps changing.
    It’s a moveable feast.

    Strangely the feasting always seems to be going on somewhere else.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
    Is it really necessary to bring up Sunak's height yet again? There are many things you could criticise him for, but his height isn't one of them.

    It really is moronic – I'm on the short side of six foot but the tallness or shortness of politicians is entirely irrelevant to my vote.
    It’s not a fucking criticism. It’s just a fact, Voters often vote for the most superficial of reasons. They don’t like bald men, and they don’t like short men. They’re not that keen on shouty women

    Don’t blame me, blame the intrinsic failings of democracy
    Again, is there any evidence, from the UK, that the height of the candidate makes much difference to the outcome? I keep reading this but I’m yet to see any data supporting it.
    It’s not the UK but it took me 25 seconds to find this. I doubt we are any different


    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/02/19/in-politics-height-matters



    https://digitalcommons.spu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=honorsprojects

    Poland:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229805429_Politicians'_estimated_height_as_an_indicator_of_their_popularity
    Hence why I specifically stated the UK. Try again. We are constantly told on PB we shouldn't draw conclusions from other countries, remember.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    Mr. Leon, perhaps, but height doesn't affect competence. Basil II was not a tall man.

    He was a rat I believe
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    Heathrow is pretty efficient to get airside, but the border is variable. When the e-gates are working it's not an issue for basically anyone coming from the e-gates approved countries. When they aren't it can take literally hours to get through. I've waited 6 hours before in the UK queue and when we got to the desk the border person said my wife would have to go and queue up separately because she's a Swiss citizen and needs to go into the non-UK queue. I bitched at him and eventually he scanned her passport and let us through, but said that from then we should queue separately. Idiot.
    You think security at Heathrow is good?

    I recently travelled to Johannesburg from London via Zurich. I went through all the normal security checks without problem.

    At Johannesburg I attempted to board a local plane down to Pietermaritzburg but the girl on security was troubled by my hand luggage, a small attache case. She emptied it, shook it out, and listened to my words of reassurance but she was convinced 'there's something in there'. She then took a penknife to one of the penholder pockets and withdrew a four inch long bullet. I recognised it immediately. It came from my Dad's war momentoes and I'd put it in the case a few months previous intending to have it checked out by a local gunsmith, but I'd forgotten all about it and it wasn't visible so I overlooked it when I decided to use the case on the trip.

    Happily the SA police accepted my story but it was an awkward moment, and left me pondering how this live round had escaped scrutiny at Heathrow/Zurich/Joburg.

    I think the round was for a WW2 machine gun but I'll never find out now because I left it with the cops in Joburg.

    Presumably because you didn't have the correct gun to fire it!
    SA Police are widely maligned and probably with good reason but the two I dealt with were perfect gents. My SA friends to a man and woman said they were surprised they didn't at least put me in the cells until I offered a few hundred rand 'compensation', but no. They were faultlessly civil and proper.

    I've had worse experiences with the fuzz over here.
    With all due respect, you consider Cape Town to be “reasonably safe” despite it having the highest murder rate in Africa, the highest murder rate outside the Americas, and a top ten ranking for global homicides

    https://www.worldatlas.com/cities/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world.html
    That will be because of the Cape Flats. When I lived in SA (97), Cape Town around the City Centre was reasonably safe, in SA terms, and certainly well policed. However, the Cape Flats were considered far more dangerous than Soweto and Alexandra in Jo'Burg (all relative though).
    OMG the Cape Flats, Horrific. Like a concentration camp

    However, and sadly, the latest goss I hear from SA-born or linked friends is that even central Cape Town is not great, not any more


    What is amazing is that the worst city in SA for murders is ONLY the tenth worst in the world. The state of the violence in Latin America, especially Mexico, is just mind blowing; This is a society in collapse
    Mexico City is dodgy as f*ck. I was there in the late 90s and it was bad. I hear it is now x10 worse.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
    Is it really necessary to bring up Sunak's height yet again? There are many things you could criticise him for, but his height isn't one of them.

    It really is moronic – I'm on the short side of six foot but the tallness or shortness of politicians is entirely irrelevant to my vote.
    It’s not a fucking criticism. It’s just a fact, Voters often vote for the most superficial of reasons. They don’t like bald men, and they don’t like short men. They’re not that keen on shouty women

    Don’t blame me, blame the intrinsic failings of democracy
    Again, is there any evidence, from the UK, that the height of the candidate makes much difference to the outcome? I keep reading this but I’m yet to see any data supporting it.
    It’s not the UK but it took me 25 seconds to find this. I doubt we are any different


    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/02/19/in-politics-height-matters



    https://digitalcommons.spu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=honorsprojects

    Poland:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229805429_Politicians'_estimated_height_as_an_indicator_of_their_popularity
    Hence why I specifically stated the UK. Try again. We are constantly told on PB we shouldn't draw conclusions from other countries, remember.
    We are? Who tells us that? Lol

    What is their rationale? That the Brits are a different species of hominid?

    Height matters. Tall people succeed.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/tall-people-more-likely-to-be-successful-in-life-study-find-a6919431.html

    They succeed particularly in politics, where image is so important
  • I would caution about the euphoria overtaking the labour supporters with some calling GE24 as all over for the conservatives

    Rishi would change the narrative and I believe would be a very good PM and is my choice and has been for months

    Boris is an extraordinary politician, even unique, and his talent is winning elections, and indeed that is the only reason he is still in office

    I just think we all need to be careful not to underestimate Boris

    And a like from @HYUFD is assured
  • The Ipsos MORI fieldwork was the 19th to 25th of January inclusive.

    Why does their graph say VI - 4 Jan 22 just a mistake?

    https://twitter.com/KellyIpsosMORI/status/1486699574211358723/photo/1
    No, the January 04 refers to January 2004, what that is the voting intention from January 2004 onwards.

    They chose that month because that's when the Hutton report was published.
    Thank you for educating me
    I mean, bit silly of Ipsos Mori. No shortage of space in that line.
  • Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20


    What did I say about ten minutes ago?


    I told you: I am plugged into the British national psyche. It is uncanny
    I’d check the fuse on your plug to the Scottish section of the network.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    A 5% lead isn't enough for Labour at this stage. Not good for Starmer at all.
    Without being accused of going all HYFUD (and, apologies HYFUD, you get a lot of abuse when you shouldn't), Labour should be having a double-digit lead at this point. What is probably even worse is they are struggling to break past 40%
    They did a week to two weeks ago, but the public's attention seems to be shifting. Unless Dom has something dramatic up his sleeve, Johnson could survive at least until May, if not a lot longer.
    I've posted before that I find it hard to get excited too much about what he's done (cue for abuse) but it does feel as though the story is getting a bit lost in the weeds now and complicated - "so he had a party but what did the Policemen see and, wait, where do the dogs fit in?". That is usually when people lose interest.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    HYUFD: "But Boris's net satisfaction rating is still above -50%"
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
    Is it really necessary to bring up Sunak's height yet again? There are many things you could criticise him for, but his height isn't one of them.

    It really is moronic – I'm on the short side of six foot but the tallness or shortness of politicians is entirely irrelevant to my vote.
    It’s not a fucking criticism. It’s just a fact, Voters often vote for the most superficial of reasons. They don’t like bald men, and they don’t like short men. They’re not that keen on shouty women

    Don’t blame me, blame the intrinsic failings of democracy
    Again, is there any evidence, from the UK, that the height of the candidate makes much difference to the outcome? I keep reading this but I’m yet to see any data supporting it.
    It’s not the UK but it took me 25 seconds to find this. I doubt we are any different


    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/02/19/in-politics-height-matters



    https://digitalcommons.spu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=honorsprojects

    Poland:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229805429_Politicians'_estimated_height_as_an_indicator_of_their_popularity
    Hence why I specifically stated the UK. Try again. We are constantly told on PB we shouldn't draw conclusions from other countries, remember.
    We are? Who tells us that? Lol

    What is their rationale? That the Brits are a different species of hominid?

    Height matters. Tall people succeed.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/tall-people-more-likely-to-be-successful-in-life-study-find-a6919431.html

    They succeed particularly in politics, where image is so important
    Well I was told it several times by the likes of @JosiasJessop re: the South African omicron experience!!
  • Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    London Heathrow IME is normally one of the more efficient airport experiences. They've figured out that in security you should have multiple stations for people taking off shoes for each x-ray scanner, rather than making it go one-by-one. Why other countries can't do this, I do not know.
    Heathrow is pretty efficient to get airside, but the border is variable. When the e-gates are working it's not an issue for basically anyone coming from the e-gates approved countries. When they aren't it can take literally hours to get through. I've waited 6 hours before in the UK queue and when we got to the desk the border person said my wife would have to go and queue up separately because she's a Swiss citizen and needs to go into the non-UK queue. I bitched at him and eventually he scanned her passport and let us through, but said that from then we should queue separately. Idiot.
    You think security at Heathrow is good?

    I recently travelled to Johannesburg from London via Zurich. I went through all the normal security checks without problem.

    At Johannesburg I attempted to board a local plane down to Pietermaritzburg but the girl on security was troubled by my hand luggage, a small attache case. She emptied it, shook it out, and listened to my words of reassurance but she was convinced 'there's something in there'. She then took a penknife to one of the penholder pockets and withdrew a four inch long bullet. I recognised it immediately. It came from my Dad's war momentoes and I'd put it in the case a few months previous intending to have it checked out by a local gunsmith, but I'd forgotten all about it and it wasn't visible so I overlooked it when I decided to use the case on the trip.

    Happily the SA police accepted my story but it was an awkward moment, and left me pondering how this live round had escaped scrutiny at Heathrow/Zurich/Joburg.

    I think the round was for a WW2 machine gun but I'll never find out now because I left it with the cops in Joburg.

    Presumably because you didn't have the correct gun to fire it!
    SA Police are widely maligned and probably with good reason but the two I dealt with were perfect gents. My SA friends to a man and woman said they were surprised they didn't at least put me in the cells until I offered a few hundred rand 'compensation', but no. They were faultlessly civil and proper.

    I've had worse experiences with the fuzz over here.
    With all due respect, you consider Cape Town to be “reasonably safe” despite it having the highest murder rate in Africa, the highest murder rate outside the Americas, and a top ten ranking for global homicides

    https://www.worldatlas.com/cities/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world.html
    Never been to the Cape, Leon.

    My comments were based on personal experience rather than statistics, and my own subjective feelings of how safe it felt generally. I was mostly in and around Pietermaritzburg, and spent some time in Durban and the resorts north of Durban beach. Naturally I avoided the more obvious hotspots but even so I've been in much more threatening places in the UK.....Cold Blow Lane and The Shed End for starters.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    The public starting to agree with you and I (and seemingly almost no-one else on here), that the PM’s wife bringing a cake to the office on his birthday, really isn’t the big story the Lobby and Opposition are trying to spin here?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
    Polls show Johnson is less popular that the Conservative Party, and Sunak is more popular than the Conservative Party. It's reasonable to assume that the Conservatives would get a bit of a poll boost if they replaced Johnson with Sunak, if only temporarily.

    It might not solve the other problem that they have - what is their story? Why should people vote for them again after so many years in government? What are they for?

    Of course Conservatives should get rid of Johnson anyway.
    You just want him gone, I suspect

    Getting rid of Boris means getting rid of a proven election winner and a brilliant campaigner. Yes, his polling is in the Khazi but if any British politician can defeat the rules of politics, it is him

    This is not my personal opinion - I think morally he should quit. I am just looking at it objectively

    What if this is just some mad late Covid polling squall? Who is to say? It may pass in two weeks, or it may be a tectonic shift. We haven’t had a plague for.a century so normal rules don’t apply

    Meanwhile the billionaire Borrower Sunak is a total unknown. He might be an absolutely terrible campaigner, who knows, he might go out canvassing and get lost between some paving stones, as he is so small

    I can see why Tory MPs are extremely hesitant. Meanwhile, Labour aren’t that much of an alternative, A boring leader, no ideas
    Is it really necessary to bring up Sunak's height yet again? There are many things you could criticise him for, but his height isn't one of them.

    It really is moronic – I'm on the short side of six foot but the tallness or shortness of politicians is entirely irrelevant to my vote.
    It’s not a fucking criticism. It’s just a fact, Voters often vote for the most superficial of reasons. They don’t like bald men, and they don’t like short men. They’re not that keen on shouty women

    Don’t blame me, blame the intrinsic failings of democracy
    Again, is there any evidence, from the UK, that the height of the candidate makes much difference to the outcome? I keep reading this but I’m yet to see any data supporting it.
    It’s not the UK but it took me 25 seconds to find this. I doubt we are any different


    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/02/19/in-politics-height-matters



    https://digitalcommons.spu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=honorsprojects

    Poland:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229805429_Politicians'_estimated_height_as_an_indicator_of_their_popularity
    Hence why I specifically stated the UK. Try again. We are constantly told on PB we shouldn't draw conclusions from other countries, remember.
    We are? Who tells us that? Lol

    What is their rationale? That the Brits are a different species of hominid?

    Height matters. Tall people succeed.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/tall-people-more-likely-to-be-successful-in-life-study-find-a6919431.html

    They succeed particularly in politics, where image is so important
    ISTR @NickPalmer giving the example of, when canvassing, a voter specifically telling him that he (the voter) would vote for him (NP) because he was the taller candidate. Presumably that voter had also heard that voters favour taller candidates and understood it as an instruction.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    The public starting to agree with you and I (and seemingly almost no-one else on here), that the PM’s wife bringing a cake to the office on his birthday, really isn’t the big story the Lobby and Opposition are trying to spin here?
    Yeah, breaking the law then lying about it to parliament - who cares?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    I would caution about the euphoria overtaking the labour supporters with some calling GE24 as all over for the conservatives

    Rishi would change the narrative and I believe would be a very good PM and is my choice and has been for months

    Boris is an extraordinary politician, even unique, and his talent is winning elections, and indeed that is the only reason he is still in office

    I just think we all need to be careful not to underestimate Boris

    And a like from @HYUFD is assured

    Who are these euphoric Labour supporters who think GE24 is a done deal?

    And I see you are back on the Boris train again. Didn't take long.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    The Ipsos MORI fieldwork was the 19th to 25th of January inclusive.

    Well that doesnt fit my narrative.

    I might have to resort to Phils " Its an Outlier"

    Not really 9% over that period is not bad for Labour
This discussion has been closed.