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Ipsos-MORI net Johnson satisfaction rating slumps to minus 46% – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited February 2022 in General
imageIpsos-MORI net Johnson satisfaction rating slumps to minus 46% – politicalbetting.com

Although there has been something of an uptick for the Tories in some voting polls the latest from Ipsos-MORI in tonight’s London Standard is very bad for Johnson. A total of 70% said they were dissatisfied with him compared with just 24% saying they were satisfied.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    First.
  • Upper second
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    🚨NADHIM ZAHAWI EMBROILED IN GREENSILL/GUPTA SCANDAL🚨

    Steel baron wrote to senior Tory thanking him for his “personally instrumental” role in facilitating loans now subject to fraud investigation.

    💣from @cynthiao (w/ help from @PickardJE and me): https://www.ft.com/content/fe8c33e7-a846-4f98-ab33-68b580c6896f
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    Scoop: Sanjeev Gupta calls Zahawi "instrumental" in getting Covid loan approvals.... First, the missing texts between Zahawi and Cameron. Now, the missing comms between Zahawi and Gupta.https://www.ft.com/content/fe8c33e7-a846-4f98-ab33-68b580c6896f with @bondhack @PickardJE
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    FPT on LDs:

    I would say mainstream Lib Dem opinion is equidistant from the current manifestation of the Tories, and Corbynism. Even in the last election though, the overriding issue of Brexit pushed more to vote tactically for Labour than for the Tories.

    With Starmer heading Labour they are now clearly closer to the Lib Dems than the government is. To bring them back into equidistance you'd need something like a Rory Stewart-led Tory party with a positive attitude to Europe and the JRMs, Patels, Raabs and the rest of that shower in the backbench wilderness.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,826
    edited January 2022
    FPT on UC policy and what the Tory voter really, really wants:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Presumably this is good news?

    Boris Johnson’s satisfaction rating has hit a record low amid the "Partygate" storm - falling to the same level as Theresa May’s worst score in her final months, exclusive @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard finds... standard.co.uk/news/politics

    Voting figures are:

    Lab 40 (+1)
    Con 31 (-3)
    Lib 13 (+2)
    Grn 9 (+2)

    Green figure seems very high to me.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124.html
    HYUFD please explain !
    Labour lead still under 10% (and the previous poll from Ipsos Mori was 3rd-10th December last year, mainly before partygate)
    You need to bear in mind there's a lot of Green votes for Labour to squeeze. At least half of that vote will go Labour at an actual GE.
    If Corbyn is not reinstated by Starmer? Wishful thinking.

    Plus remember Boris still has RefUK to squeeze further
    Yes Boris is going to squeeze further a party that is polling so dreadfully they're not even named in the results. 😂

    You'll grasp any straw won't you. You're the only person on the site who actually thinks RefUK are a serious party or relevant at all.
    Labour will squeeze Green voters on the day. No one on the left will give up a chance of kicking Boris and the Tories out if it looks like they can. If someone like Rishi takes over and get the Tories up to 41 or 42 points Labour will struggle to do it.
    You honestly think Sunak is going to get 41% to 42% after forcing skilled workers to take unskilled jobs just a month after redundancy from reports today and after he will responsible for the NI rise in April? Not to mention Sunak backed Brexit just like Boris so he is not going to appeal to remainers Cameron won but no longer voting Tory as he will not appeal to the redwall Boris won in 2019
    People may not like the decisions that Sunak is making as Chancellor, but it's perfectly possible to win whilst being unpopular midterm for hard decisions made by a chancellor (Poll tax/1992). What people won't accept is rank hypocrisy and incompetence - (Back to basics/1997)
    Major scrapped Thatcher's poll tax.

    We face the Sunak NI rise in April and Sunak's UC change today hitting skilled workers.

    Boris is not directly responsible for those
    Boris's name is all over the NI rise (while Sunak was conspicuous by his absence in every announcement about it)

    The UC change is a mis-step based on a complete misunderstand on how the economy works (hardly surprising given that the treasury is clueless on how the real world works) but if the Tories think it's a vote winner let them continue trying to introduce it.

    Remember it can take 6 weeks for a company to onboard someone after they've got the job. Applying and interviews can easily be the same time frame again.

    So if you apply for a job on day 1 it would take 3 months before you began at DWP / any other civil service department. That would be my test for a reasonable time frame.
    It was Sunak who announced it as Chancellor and Boris will ensure Sunak is responsible for the NI rise and UC change
    Which one will announce the reintroduction of workhouses?

    Red meat for the faithful.
    I'm reminded of this (quoting wiki):

    "the 1536 Act for Punishment of Sturdy Vagabonds and Beggars was passed. This more severe law stated that those caught outside of their parish without work would be punished by being whipped through the streets. If caught a second time they could lose an ear and if caught a third time they could be executed"

    Three for one - inclouding a spot of flage and the death penalty. Just the kind of Henry VIII legislation they are calling for in the streets of Epping.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨NADHIM ZAHAWI EMBROILED IN GREENSILL/GUPTA SCANDAL🚨

    Steel baron wrote to senior Tory thanking him for his “personally instrumental” role in facilitating loans now subject to fraud investigation.

    💣from @cynthiao (w/ help from @PickardJE and me): https://www.ft.com/content/fe8c33e7-a846-4f98-ab33-68b580c6896f

    Oops...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
  • Conservative MPs would do well to look at the leadership approval ratings.

    What the polls are saying to me is that this isn't 1995 - it's perfectly salvageable for the Tories as Labour are some way from sealing the deal but they have this very big dead weight on them, and the longer he stays the more he contaminates the brand.

    I know the response is "but 2019". However, 2022 Johnson simply isn't 2019 Johnson - the joke isn't funny any more for most people. Also, of course, 2022 Starmer isn't 2019 Corbyn.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    FPT
    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Presumably this is good news?

    Boris Johnson’s satisfaction rating has hit a record low amid the "Partygate" storm - falling to the same level as Theresa May’s worst score in her final months, exclusive @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard finds... standard.co.uk/news/politics

    Voting figures are:

    Lab 40 (+1)
    Con 31 (-3)
    Lib 13 (+2)
    Grn 9 (+2)

    Green figure seems very high to me.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124.html
    HYUFD please explain !
    Labour lead still under 10% (and the previous poll from Ipsos Mori was 3rd-10th December last year, mainly before partygate)
    You need to bear in mind there's a lot of Green votes for Labour to squeeze. At least half of that vote will go Labour at an actual GE.
    If Corbyn is not reinstated by Starmer? Wishful thinking.

    Plus remember Boris still has RefUK to squeeze further
    Yes Boris is going to squeeze further a party that is polling so dreadfully they're not even named in the results. 😂

    You'll grasp any straw won't you. You're the only person on the site who actually thinks RefUK are a serious party or relevant at all.
    Labour will squeeze Green voters on the day. No one on the left will give up a chance of kicking Boris and the Tories out if it looks like they can. If someone like Rishi takes over and get the Tories up to 41 or 42 points Labour will struggle to do it.
    You honestly think Sunak is going to get 41% to 42% after forcing skilled workers to take unskilled jobs just a month after redundancy from reports today and after he will responsible for the NI rise in April? Not to mention Sunak backed Brexit just like Boris so he is not going to appeal to remainers Cameron won but no longer voting Tory as he will not appeal to the redwall Boris won in 2019
    People may not like the decisions that Sunak is making as Chancellor, but it's perfectly possible to win whilst being unpopular midterm for hard decisions made by a chancellor (Poll tax/1992). What people won't accept is rank hypocrisy and incompetence - (Back to basics/1997)
    Major scrapped Thatcher's poll tax.

    We face the Sunak NI rise in April and Sunak's UC change today hitting skilled workers.

    Boris is not directly responsible for those
    Boris's name is all over the NI rise (while Sunak was conspicuous by his absence in every announcement about it)

    The UC change is a mis-step based on a complete misunderstand on how the economy works (hardly surprising given that the treasury is clueless on how the real world works)
    I don't think the UC change is a good policy, yet I also don't think it will be unpopular. You know who really hates the long term unemployed? The working poor. Bringing in policies to reduce long term unemployment and benefits dependency will probably be fairly popular.
    Is 1 month long term unemployed? Yes many of the working poor think long term unemployed are too often freeloading, but not sure they will see this policy as addressing that.

    Also completely clashes with the government claiming we have full employment and soaring pay. If so, why the need for the changes?
    The government’s argument will be the fact we have a million vacancies, soaring pay and full employment, is exactly why they are making the changes.

    They don’t want today’s equivalent of buggy whip makers, sitting on the dole for months waiting for new buggy whipping jobs that will never come along.

    With the exception of the disabled, there’s no reason for anyone to be unemployed at the moment, even if it’s only working a few days a week for minimum wage.
    Buggy whip aside. It is totally impossible to apply for and then begin a job in education in under 4 weeks.
    I don't know how the NHS works, but I can't see it being much different. Most newly advertised jobs have at least 2 weeks before even a closing date for applications.
    Politically it plays well. But it is utterly impractical.
    The government’s argument is that there are a million jobs out there, many of them mostly unskilled such as driving, retail and hospitality, that people can be doing while they apply for jobs that better suit their skills, rather than rely totally on government to support them with handouts.
    Outside of possibly driving - the shops and hospitality industry really don't want people who will disappear as soon as anything better comes along.

    The people making this policy don't understand the real world.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited January 2022
    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
    We are going to end up with a wealth tax as it's virtual impossible to avoid it.

    Given that everything else is taxed to the point the laffer curve goes Nope you are having a laugh.

    I suspect that even this forthcoming Employer NI increase is a step 2 far and we will start to see a whole set of dodgy deals to mitigate it. Employee NI is hard to avoid, even with the new IR35 rules there are ways to reduce the employer NI side of things.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Conservative MPs would do well to look at the leadership approval ratings.

    What the polls are saying to me is that this isn't 1995 - it's perfectly salvageable for the Tories as Labour are some way from sealing the deal but they have this very big dead weight on them, and the longer he stays the more he contaminates the brand.

    I know the response is "but 2019". However, 2022 Johnson simply isn't 2019 Johnson - the joke isn't funny any more for most people. Also, of course, 2022 Starmer isn't 2019 Corbyn.

    Spot on
  • Seems apt here.


  • Quite the poll from Ipsos MORI.

    If I read the stats right, every PM with ratings this bad has either been deposed before the next election or lost the election.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Scott_xP said:

    Scoop: Sanjeev Gupta calls Zahawi "instrumental" in getting Covid loan approvals.... First, the missing texts between Zahawi and Cameron. Now, the missing comms between Zahawi and Gupta.https://www.ft.com/content/fe8c33e7-a846-4f98-ab33-68b580c6896f with @bondhack @PickardJE

    The stench surrounding this Conservative Party is on a scale unlike anything I can recall in this country.

    I thought Tony Blair's cronyism and cash for honours was bad enough, and John Major's sleaze regime, but this is something else.

    Corruption on an industrial scale because the man at the top is bereft of one iota of morality.

  • Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    One for TSE

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60158264

    Lampard is now favourite to get the Everton job so I suspect the story is going to go

    Lampard gets the job
    Everton are relegated (highly likely given the issues, the time left to fix things and Newcastle's spending)
    Rooney arrives in the Summer to return them to glory.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
    Cutting spending of course, being illegal.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Seems apt here.


    Amazing to think that on that poll, Lib+Grn is fewer than ten points behind the Tory score.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
    We are going to end up with a wealth tax as it's virtual impossible to avoid it.

    Given that everything else is taxed to the point the laffer curve goes Nope you are having a laugh.

    I suspect that even this forthcoming Employer NI increase is a step 2 far and we will start to see a whole set of dodgy deals to mitigate it. Employee NI is hard to avoid, even with the new IR35 rules there are ways to reduce the employer NI side of things.
    I think a 1-2% asset tax on certain classes of assets is on the cards. As I've said for years, the Tories would do well to get ahead of it and propose one with exemptions on primary residences and total shareholdings under £500k. Labour certainly wouldn't be as generous on shareholdings and may not exempt primary residences.
  • eek said:

    One for TSE

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60158264

    Lampard is now favourite to get the Everton job so I suspect the story is going to go

    Lampard gets the job
    Everton are relegated (highly likely given the issues, the time left to fix things and Newcastle's spending)
    Rooney arrives in the Summer to return them to glory.

    If Lampard relegated Everton I think I might die from pissing myself laughing.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    Seems apt here.


    A very good point and that's certainly how I would look at it as a voter
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited January 2022

    Seems apt here.


    Great point, well spotted. And with tactical voting and the LibDems particular defenestrations in mind in target seats in London and Home Counties, I'd say there's even more reason for tory pessimism.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    eek said:

    One for TSE

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60158264

    Lampard is now favourite to get the Everton job so I suspect the story is going to go

    Lampard gets the job
    Everton are relegated (highly likely given the issues, the time left to fix things and Newcastle's spending)
    Rooney arrives in the Summer to return them to glory.

    Nah, I reckon Everton will stay up.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    eek said:

    One for TSE

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60158264

    Lampard is now favourite to get the Everton job so I suspect the story is going to go

    Lampard gets the job
    Everton are relegated (highly likely given the issues, the time left to fix things and Newcastle's spending)
    Rooney arrives in the Summer to return them to glory.

    It's not the time. It's the utter lack of available money under FFP.
    We still need to offload players for cash this window, despite Digne.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
    We are going to end up with a wealth tax as it's virtual impossible to avoid it.

    Given that everything else is taxed to the point the laffer curve goes Nope you are having a laugh.

    I suspect that even this forthcoming Employer NI increase is a step 2 far and we will start to see a whole set of dodgy deals to mitigate it. Employee NI is hard to avoid, even with the new IR35 rules there are ways to reduce the employer NI side of things.
    I think a 1-2% asset tax on certain classes of assets is on the cards. As I've said for years, the Tories would do well to get ahead of it and propose one with exemptions on primary residences and total shareholdings under £500k. Labour certainly wouldn't be as generous on shareholdings and may not exempt primary residences.
    Labour aren't going to tax people's homes, certainly not those under a million quid or something.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Roger said:

    Seems apt here.


    A very good point and that's certainly how I would look at it as a voter
    Assumes the majority of LD voters would put Labour as their second choice. Most of the LD supporters I know wouldn't necessarily do so.
  • eek said:

    One for TSE

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60158264

    Lampard is now favourite to get the Everton job so I suspect the story is going to go

    Lampard gets the job
    Everton are relegated (highly likely given the issues, the time left to fix things and Newcastle's spending)
    Rooney arrives in the Summer to return them to glory.

    Nah, I reckon Everton will stay up.
    I think Watford are safe thanks to the Hodgson appointment.

    I think Newcastle end up being safe if they do a trolley dash before the transfer deadline.

    Burnley might be safe if they win the majority of their games in hand.

    Norwich I fear are doomed despite Dean Smith's good work.

    I think Everton should be safe but if DCL or Richarilson end up getting injured I think they might be screwed.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    edited January 2022

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
    We are going to end up with a wealth tax as it's virtual impossible to avoid it.

    Given that everything else is taxed to the point the laffer curve goes Nope you are having a laugh.

    I suspect that even this forthcoming Employer NI increase is a step 2 far and we will start to see a whole set of dodgy deals to mitigate it. Employee NI is hard to avoid, even with the new IR35 rules there are ways to reduce the employer NI side of things.
    I think a 1-2% asset tax on certain classes of assets is on the cards. As I've said for years, the Tories would do well to get ahead of it and propose one with exemptions on primary residences and total shareholdings under £500k. Labour certainly wouldn't be as generous on shareholdings and may not exempt primary residences.
    Labour aren't going to tax people's homes, certainly not those under a million quid or something.
    A million quid is easy to hit in London and the SE. My parents home is a bog standard 4 bedroom semi in a nice suburb and a house on their road sold for more than a million. That's why I said the Tories should get ahead of it and exempt all primary residences, Labour will likely have some kind of limit and would be unlikely to include shareholdings above a low value threshold.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904

    Quite the poll from Ipsos MORI.
    If I read the stats right, every PM with ratings this bad has either been deposed before the next election or lost the election.

    And yet, young HY constantly reminds us that every other possible Conservative Leader would do even worse. I am sure he is right..... He always is......

    The problem that the Conservatives have is that Boris Johnson has not just contaminated the brand, he has absolutely poisoned it and killed it off. There is no way back for them.

    All the Conservatives I know have switched over to the Lib Dems. There may be some who have switched to the Labour Party - but not round here. Tactical voting is working with a vengeance - and the electors are doing it spontaneously.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Rogue Poll. My personal sense is that the Tories are nudging ahead again, and Boris is recovering fast
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,826

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912
    edited January 2022
    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen
  • Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    I've often said Wales is worse than Afghanistan.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Leon said:

    Rogue Poll. My personal sense is that the Tories are nudging ahead again, and Boris is recovering fast

    Is that the well researched opinion of Taxi drivers in Colombo?
  • Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    It looks like the Prime Minister has forgotten to let the Daily Post know his itinerary. Cynics will think this is so Number 10 can later supply the media with approved footage.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,826

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    I've often said Wales is worse than Afghanistan.
    Better steam trains and laverbread. And they let you drink beer.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    Conservative MPs would do well to look at the leadership approval ratings.

    What the polls are saying to me is that this isn't 1995 - it's perfectly salvageable for the Tories as Labour are some way from sealing the deal but they have this very big dead weight on them, and the longer he stays the more he contaminates the brand.

    I know the response is "but 2019". However, 2022 Johnson simply isn't 2019 Johnson - the joke isn't funny any more for most people. Also, of course, 2022 Starmer isn't 2019 Corbyn.

    There again the number saying they don't want Johnson as PM isn't far away from the number saying they will vote for someone other than the Tories so perhaps the the leader contamination has already contaminated the Party brand.

    I would be very surprised if the Party can remained unscathed from what the public have seen recently
  • Andy_JS said:

    Roger said:

    Seems apt here.


    A very good point and that's certainly how I would look at it as a voter
    Assumes the majority of LD voters would put Labour as their second choice. Most of the LD supporters I know wouldn't necessarily do so.
    I would have thought under Johnson, the vast majority of LD voters prefer Starmer to Johnson at a national level (even if they are not mad keen on Labour). Of course there are some areas like Eastleigh and Hazel Grove where lots of voters vote LD at a local level and are still supporting the Tories nationally.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912
    edited January 2022

    Quite the poll from Ipsos MORI.

    If I read the stats right, every PM with ratings this bad has either been deposed before the next election or lost the election.

    Wrong, Brown was not before 2010 and got a hung parliament not an outright defeat.

    Major was not pre 1997 either and like Boris no alternative Tory leaders led Labour in the hypothetical polls then either
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Quite the poll from Ipsos MORI.

    If I read the stats right, every PM with ratings this bad has either been deposed before the next election or lost the election.

    Wrong, Brown was not before 2010 and got a hung parliament not an outright defeat.

    Major was not pre 1997 either and like Boris no alternative Tory leaders led Labour in the hypothetical polls then either
    Loses election = Loss of power.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨NADHIM ZAHAWI EMBROILED IN GREENSILL/GUPTA SCANDAL🚨

    Steel baron wrote to senior Tory thanking him for his “personally instrumental” role in facilitating loans now subject to fraud investigation.

    💣from @cynthiao (w/ help from @PickardJE and me): https://www.ft.com/content/fe8c33e7-a846-4f98-ab33-68b580c6896f

    Oops...
    I wonder if he will fall back on the "wait for sue gray" response

  • Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    It looks like the Prime Minister has forgotten to let the Daily Post know his itinerary. Cynics will think this is so Number 10 can later supply the media with approved footage.
    Security
  • MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
    We are going to end up with a wealth tax as it's virtual impossible to avoid it.

    Given that everything else is taxed to the point the laffer curve goes Nope you are having a laugh.

    I suspect that even this forthcoming Employer NI increase is a step 2 far and we will start to see a whole set of dodgy deals to mitigate it. Employee NI is hard to avoid, even with the new IR35 rules there are ways to reduce the employer NI side of things.
    I think a 1-2% asset tax on certain classes of assets is on the cards. As I've said for years, the Tories would do well to get ahead of it and propose one with exemptions on primary residences and total shareholdings under £500k. Labour certainly wouldn't be as generous on shareholdings and may not exempt primary residences.
    I'm sceptical the average voter cares about shareholdings. People have homes, so might aspire to having better homes; most do not directly hold shares and probably would not even know how to go about it.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.
    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20

    Liz Truss is the Lib Dems secret weapon. She switched over to the Conservatives, and ever since then has worked untiringly to bring them into ever ,ore disrepute... Not easy, when B Johnson is doing it so well all by himself. Go, Liz, go...!!!!!! You can do it!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    I've often said Wales is worse than Afghanistan.
    Snowdonia did double for the NW Frontier in Carry On Up The Khyber.

    Perhaps Johnson is just after some tiffin.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    Leon said:

    Rogue Poll. My personal sense is that the Tories are nudging ahead again, and Boris is recovering fast

    Is that the well researched opinion of Taxi drivers in Colombo?
    No, it is a sub-sample of the Taxi drivers. Just the Albanian ones, driving London Cabs.

    And we all know what OGH thinks about unrepresentative sub-samples...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,826
    edited January 2022
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    I've often said Wales is worse than Afghanistan.
    Jallallabadd
    Well, they filmed 'Carry on up the Khyber' in North Wales.

    Edit: Foxy got there before me!!
  • Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    It looks like the Prime Minister has forgotten to let the Daily Post know his itinerary. Cynics will think this is so Number 10 can later supply the media with approved footage.
    Security
    Believe that and you'll believe anything. The only reason Boris is there is for a photo-op, not a secret meeting to discuss Ukraine with Presidents Putin and Biden.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    In a way I find HY's attitude rather comforting. If enough tories don't think they now have a problem that's all the better for the Opposition.

    It was exactly the same in 1992-7. People thought that because John Major had pulled the cat out of the bag at the last minute with his stunning, and totally surprising, victory in 1992 that he would repeat the feat five years later.

    Stay arrogant and myopic. Suits me.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
    We are going to end up with a wealth tax as it's virtual impossible to avoid it.

    Given that everything else is taxed to the point the laffer curve goes Nope you are having a laugh.

    I suspect that even this forthcoming Employer NI increase is a step 2 far and we will start to see a whole set of dodgy deals to mitigate it. Employee NI is hard to avoid, even with the new IR35 rules there are ways to reduce the employer NI side of things.
    I think a 1-2% asset tax on certain classes of assets is on the cards. As I've said for years, the Tories would do well to get ahead of it and propose one with exemptions on primary residences and total shareholdings under £500k. Labour certainly wouldn't be as generous on shareholdings and may not exempt primary residences.
    I'm sceptical the average voter cares about shareholdings. People have homes, so might aspire to having better homes; most do not directly hold shares and probably would not even know how to go about it.
    Retirement savings.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912
    edited January 2022
    Heathener said:

    In a way I find HY's attitude rather comforting. If enough tories don't think they now have a problem that's all the better for the Opposition.

    It was exactly the same in 1992-7. People thought that because John Major had pulled the cat out of the bag at the last minute with his stunning, and totally surprising, victory in 1992 that he would repeat the feat five years later.

    Stay arrogant and myopic. Suits me.

    Yet had Portillo or Heseltine led the Tories in 1997 they would also have lost to Blair as badly as Major did.

    Had Redwood led the Tories in 1997 even more Tory MPs would have lost their seats than did under Major
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    "I'm Liz - fly me!"
  • Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    In a way I find HY's attitude rather comforting. If enough tories don't think they now have a problem that's all the better for the Opposition.

    It was exactly the same in 1992-7. People thought that because John Major had pulled the cat out of the bag at the last minute with his stunning, and totally surprising, victory in 1992 that he would repeat the feat five years later.

    Stay arrogant and myopic. Suits me.

    Yet had Portillo or Heseltine led the Tories in 1997 they would also have lost to Blair as badly as Major did.

    Had Redwood led the Tories in 1997 even more Tory MPs would have lost their seats than did under Major
    There's no way of knowing that. Your certainty about what might have happened or what might happen is misplaced at best.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    I'm not going to click the link because the indy website is a hot mess of adverts and popups, so perhaps someone can bravely don a tin hat and delve in to tell me what's wrong with flying Quantas?
    Depending how many bods she took with her, no cheaper and less flexibility? She's a twat but this doesn't look a great point
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    It looks like the Prime Minister has forgotten to let the Daily Post know his itinerary. Cynics will think this is so Number 10 can later supply the media with approved footage.
    Security
    Security isn't a dirty word, Blackadder. "Crevice" is a dirty word, but security isn't.
  • Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    In his words - getting on with the job
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912

    HYUFD said:

    Quite the poll from Ipsos MORI.

    If I read the stats right, every PM with ratings this bad has either been deposed before the next election or lost the election.

    Wrong, Brown was not before 2010 and got a hung parliament not an outright defeat.

    Major was not pre 1997 either and like Boris no alternative Tory leaders led Labour in the hypothetical polls then either
    Loses election = Loss of power.
    Loss of power yes, not loss of an election, that would have required the Tories to have won a majority as they did in 2015 or 2019.

    In theory at least the LDs could have gone with Brown in 2010 instead of Cameron and Brown stayed in power
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    I believe both Kantar and, I think Survation today, are suggesting much smaller poll leads. I think without Boris the Tories would swiftly move right back in the game - [despite HYUFD who no doubt will tell me shortly for the umpteenth time that Sunak will poll worse]
    I take the point on board about leader ratings but I also note a tendency on the party line here to favour pollsters who agree with them and downplay those which don't. Undoubtedly on voting intention there has been a narrowing and it's silly to ignore it. #BBI!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,826

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    In his words - getting on with the job
    Of being photographed. Aye right.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited January 2022

    Leon said:

    Rogue Poll. My personal sense is that the Tories are nudging ahead again, and Boris is recovering fast

    Is that the well researched opinion of Taxi drivers in Colombo?
    I just have a telepathic link with the British people, I think. It’s no more or less complex than that. Even as I sit at the pool bar of my insanely luxurious hotel overlooking the UNESCO listed ramparts of Galle town, Sri Lanka, sipping my dry martini, I can somehow STILL sense what they are thinking in Swindon, St Andrews and Stoke Newington. It’s a gift, I suppose. I don’t like to boast about it. Not my thing, vulgar boasting

    Anyway, cheers PB






  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Day one of the nationwide victory lap?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    FPT, @MaxPB said there were only 1.5 million on UC.

    The actual figure is 5.7 million. The roll out is roughly 60% complete, so the eventual figure could be around 9.5 million.

    Of the 5.7 million, 1.7 million are searching for work. Another 1.3 million are expected to search for more work or prepare for it, for a total of 3 million.

    There is a reasonably strong positive correlation between being on unemployment related benefits and labour vote share, last I checked. I might run that code on UC only and see what crops up.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    A nothing story, I wonder if the same people leaking this leaked the one about the working lunch she had.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quite the poll from Ipsos MORI.

    If I read the stats right, every PM with ratings this bad has either been deposed before the next election or lost the election.

    Wrong, Brown was not before 2010 and got a hung parliament not an outright defeat.

    Major was not pre 1997 either and like Boris no alternative Tory leaders led Labour in the hypothetical polls then either
    Loses election = Loss of power.
    Loss of power yes, not loss of an election, that would have required the Tories to have won a majority as they did in 2015 or 2019.

    In theory at least the LDs could have gone with Brown in 2010 instead of Cameron and Brown stayed in power
    Someone 'phone Gordon and tell him he didn't lose the 2010 election after all. He'll be thrilled to hear it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    The thread header is wrong. Thatcher did have lower ratings than Boris with Mori in 1990, as did Major in 1994 and as did May as mentioned in 2019 and Blair and Brown had similar in 2007 and in 2009.
    'However, it is not as bad as John Major’s low point of 76/17 in August 1994, or Margaret Thatcher’s of 76/20 in March 1990.

    It is also similar to Tony Blair’s lowest in Jan 2007 of 68/25, while his successor Gordon Brown had results at this level at his low points in 2008/9.'
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-satisfaction-rating-partygate-record-low-ipsos-mori-poll-b979124

    As for being seen as an election winner. Labour's lead is still under 10% with Mori today and lower with other pollsters. All alternative Tory leaders to Boris poll worse v Starmer than Boris does bar Sunak. Sunak does fractionally better but how long that lasts if he continues to make unpopular decisions like he did over UC today which will hit skilled workers facing redundancy remains to be seen

    Thatcher got deposed and Major got the Tories wiped out. I'm not sure your examples are very helpful.
    Thatcher only got deposed as polls showed a Major led Tories leading Kinnock Labour while the Tories under her trailed.

    No alternative Tory leader led Blair's Labour pre 1997 and no alternative leader leads Starmer Labour in hypothetical polls now either, even Sunak
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Ipsos Mori

    England
    Lab 44%
    Con 38%
    LD 11%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 23%
    Lab 16%
    LD 10%

    Wales
    Lab 54%
    PC 19%
    Con 15%

    (Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard; 19-25 January; 1,059)
  • Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    I'm not going to click the link because the indy website is a hot mess of adverts and popups, so perhaps someone can bravely don a tin hat and delve in to tell me what's wrong with flying Quantas?
    I have flown Qantas several times including one direct Heathrow to Sydney and they are an excellent airline
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,826
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
    We are going to end up with a wealth tax as it's virtual impossible to avoid it.

    Given that everything else is taxed to the point the laffer curve goes Nope you are having a laugh.

    I suspect that even this forthcoming Employer NI increase is a step 2 far and we will start to see a whole set of dodgy deals to mitigate it. Employee NI is hard to avoid, even with the new IR35 rules there are ways to reduce the employer NI side of things.
    I think a 1-2% asset tax on certain classes of assets is on the cards. As I've said for years, the Tories would do well to get ahead of it and propose one with exemptions on primary residences and total shareholdings under £500k. Labour certainly wouldn't be as generous on shareholdings and may not exempt primary residences.
    I'm sceptical the average voter cares about shareholdings. People have homes, so might aspire to having better homes; most do not directly hold shares and probably would not even know how to go about it.
    Retirement savings.
    I wonder if 'shareholdings' includes unit trusts (which many folk might not think of as them)? And pension pots? A crucial issue for any party formulating such a tax.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    If she's flying 50 people to Australia that's a waste of public money in itself.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
    We are going to end up with a wealth tax as it's virtual impossible to avoid it.

    Given that everything else is taxed to the point the laffer curve goes Nope you are having a laugh.

    I suspect that even this forthcoming Employer NI increase is a step 2 far and we will start to see a whole set of dodgy deals to mitigate it. Employee NI is hard to avoid, even with the new IR35 rules there are ways to reduce the employer NI side of things.
    I think a 1-2% asset tax on certain classes of assets is on the cards. As I've said for years, the Tories would do well to get ahead of it and propose one with exemptions on primary residences and total shareholdings under £500k. Labour certainly wouldn't be as generous on shareholdings and may not exempt primary residences.
    I'm sceptical the average voter cares about shareholdings. People have homes, so might aspire to having better homes; most do not directly hold shares and probably would not even know how to go about it.
    Retirement savings.
    Again, I doubt most voters directly hold shares, even if they have money in pension funds and investment trusts that do. For that reason, I doubt such a measure, if ever proposed, would be politically sensitive. Similarly, crypto and NFTs are not mainstream.

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    In his words - getting on with the job
    Of being photographed. Aye right.
    Now you're being silly. Has no other politician ever taken photo opps?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912
    TimS said:

    FPT on LDs:

    I would say mainstream Lib Dem opinion is equidistant from the current manifestation of the Tories, and Corbynism. Even in the last election though, the overriding issue of Brexit pushed more to vote tactically for Labour than for the Tories.

    With Starmer heading Labour they are now clearly closer to the Lib Dems than the government is. To bring them back into equidistance you'd need something like a Rory Stewart-led Tory party with a positive attitude to Europe and the JRMs, Patels, Raabs and the rest of that shower in the backbench wilderness.

    Yes but that risks Farage coming back to lead RefUK and the Tories being replaced by RefUK as the main opposition if Stewart came back on a BINO Brexit ticket
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
    We are going to end up with a wealth tax as it's virtual impossible to avoid it.

    Given that everything else is taxed to the point the laffer curve goes Nope you are having a laugh.

    I suspect that even this forthcoming Employer NI increase is a step 2 far and we will start to see a whole set of dodgy deals to mitigate it. Employee NI is hard to avoid, even with the new IR35 rules there are ways to reduce the employer NI side of things.
    I think a 1-2% asset tax on certain classes of assets is on the cards. As I've said for years, the Tories would do well to get ahead of it and propose one with exemptions on primary residences and total shareholdings under £500k. Labour certainly wouldn't be as generous on shareholdings and may not exempt primary residences.
    I'm sceptical the average voter cares about shareholdings. People have homes, so might aspire to having better homes; most do not directly hold shares and probably would not even know how to go about it.
    Retirement savings.
    I wonder if 'shareholdings' includes unit trusts (which many folk might not think of as them)? And pension pots? A crucial issue for any party formulating such a tax.
    You don't want to hit pension pots but ISAs are probably fair game.

    What you quickly discover is how much wealth is actually stored in primary residences so that will become an inevitable means of attack.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
  • Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    I'm not going to click the link because the indy website is a hot mess of adverts and popups, so perhaps someone can bravely don a tin hat and delve in to tell me what's wrong with flying Quantas?
    "Scheduled flights were available for the same itinerary, but it is understood the private flight was chosen for ‘security considerations’ amid fears that conversations could be overheard by other passengers."
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited January 2022
    Heathener said:

    In a way I find HY's attitude rather comforting. If enough tories don't think they now have a problem that's all the better for the Opposition.

    It was exactly the same in 1992-7. People thought that because John Major had pulled the cat out of the bag at the last minute with his stunning, and totally surprising, victory in 1992 that he would repeat the feat five years later.

    Stay arrogant and myopic. Suits me.

    The thing is, though, if "noisy protest" is banned in the meantime ; the axe is taken to more institutions ; the liar-in-chief gets away scot-free again and corrosive public cynicism increases ; and more people end up destitute as a result of at once callous and economically idiotic social policies ; a lot of us will suffer. I'd prefer to see Johnson out now, even if that increases the chances of a Tory victory next time round. He's uniquely dangerous to all our well-being.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Ipsos Mori

    England
    Lab 44%
    Con 38%
    LD 11%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 23%
    Lab 16%
    LD 10%

    Wales
    Lab 54%
    PC 19%
    Con 15%

    (Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard; 19-25 January; 1,059)

    Don't those splits just show the idiocy of sub-samples?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    I've often said Wales is worse than Afghanistan.
    Dunno about Wales, but Wick, yes, definitely


    “I’d rather risk beheading by Taliban than live in Wick”

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/8113251/afghanistan-refugee-taliban-scotland/
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    In his words - getting on with the job
    Of being photographed. Aye right.
    Actual interview in the media

    And that is how I knew he was here as the Great Orme was in the background
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,826
    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    I've often said Wales is worse than Afghanistan.
    Better steam trains and laverbread. And they let you drink beer.
    It's like the famous Umm Qasr line:

    "Umm Qasr is a city similar to Southampton," UK ex-defence minister Geoff Hoon said in the Commons yesterday. "He's either never been to Southampton, or he's never been to Umm Qasr" says a British squaddie patrolling Umm Qasr. Another soldier added: "There's no beer, no prostitutes and people are shooting at us. It's more like Portsmouth".
    I hadn't come across that before - it's great.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912
    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    The other half of the equation is exactly where else in Europe is he planning to go.

    The last time I looked outside of London the next most cost effective place was Sofia (productivity way lower but wages low enough to compensate). So it will be another one for Dublin where they wave most people through.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    You can get away with this stuff when taxes are low and people feel prosperous

    When they are the highest in 70 years, and people are choosing between heat and eat, not so much.

    Same with Sunak's furlough fraud. People will not forgive and they will not tolerate. Nor should they.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Boris Johnson - Net favourability

    London -21
    Midlands -22
    South -28
    North -42
    England -30

    Wales -54
    Scotland -58
    N Ireland -77

    (Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard; 19-25 January; 1,059)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    FPT on LDs:

    I would say mainstream Lib Dem opinion is equidistant from the current manifestation of the Tories, and Corbynism. Even in the last election though, the overriding issue of Brexit pushed more to vote tactically for Labour than for the Tories.

    With Starmer heading Labour they are now clearly closer to the Lib Dems than the government is. To bring them back into equidistance you'd need something like a Rory Stewart-led Tory party with a positive attitude to Europe and the JRMs, Patels, Raabs and the rest of that shower in the backbench wilderness.

    Yes but that risks Farage coming back to lead RefUK and the Tories being replaced by RefUK as the main opposition if Stewart came back on a BINO Brexit ticket
    I thought you said Brexit is done.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Off-topic but one that MaxPB and others will understand

    Mike Butcher
    @mikebutcher
    Big tech entrepreneur messages me: "Stuck at the UK border (non-UK, EU, US) in LHR for 4+ hrs. Last time it was 2.5+. Kids crying all around. Officers drift in & out. Barely a quarter booths occupied. I was thinking of opening an office in London, but now I doubt I will." #Brexit

    I've known Mike for 25 years so this is a true story it ain't point scoring and shows how the little things matter.

    This shit happened before Brexit, the issue is always the same - e-gates have stopped working and right now the incessant checks on COVID stuff at the border. The US border in SF is pretty awful too right now, I know some people who just went and were stuck for hours.

    Anyone who is basing investment decisions on COVID travel probably makes pretty poor decisions overall, though that doesn't excuse the border agents not being staffed properly or actually working.
    Yes, this is a complaint by someone who maybe isn’t travelling much

    Frontiers are a mess everywhere. Ironically, the easiest one I’ve encountered since Covid began is here, Sri Lanka, at Colombo airport
  • HYUFD said:

    New poll from gold standard Survation has Boris slashing the Labour lead to just 5% and a 2.5% swing to the Tories since the last poll
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1486697056773283842?s=20

    Could be now or never for Dom..
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Eabhal said:

    FPT, @MaxPB said there were only 1.5 million on UC.

    The actual figure is 5.7 million. The roll out is roughly 60% complete, so the eventual figure could be around 9.5 million.

    Of the 5.7 million, 1.7 million are searching for work. Another 1.3 million are expected to search for more work or prepare for it, for a total of 3 million.

    There is a reasonably strong positive correlation between being on unemployment related benefits and labour vote share, last I checked. I might run that code on UC only and see what crops up.

    So 1.7m people are affected by this policy then? I thought it was 1.5m at last count due to a big fall in claimants, but sure even at 1.7m people it's not a huge number directly and as I said, indirectly people tend to be in favour of fewer unemployed/freeloaders/scroungers (delete as appropriate). Whether or not it's a good policy is up for debate, I don't think it's going to hurt Rishi as HYFUD likes to claim, though. The most anti-scrounger people are working poor and lower-middle income people, what a lot of us would term red wall voters.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    FPT on LDs:

    I would say mainstream Lib Dem opinion is equidistant from the current manifestation of the Tories, and Corbynism. Even in the last election though, the overriding issue of Brexit pushed more to vote tactically for Labour than for the Tories.

    With Starmer heading Labour they are now clearly closer to the Lib Dems than the government is. To bring them back into equidistance you'd need something like a Rory Stewart-led Tory party with a positive attitude to Europe and the JRMs, Patels, Raabs and the rest of that shower in the backbench wilderness.

    Yes but that risks Farage coming back to lead RefUK and the Tories being replaced by RefUK as the main opposition if Stewart came back on a BINO Brexit ticket
    I thought you said Brexit is done.
    Story keeps changing.
  • Heathener said:

    And so it goes on ... and on ... and on

    Simon Calder
    EXCLUSIVE
    Taxpayers spent £500,000 pounds so the foreign secretary didn't have to fly to, from and within Australia on
    Qantas
    .
    Instead, Liz Truss travelled 22,000 miles by private government Airbus A321, creating almost 500 tonnes of CO2 emissions.

    https://twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1486663145137614856?s=20


    This is silly

    She would have had a team with her including security which has been suggested could have been 50 or more

    If she's flying 50 people to Australia that's a waste of public money in itself.
    All diplomatic trips have staff and security and no different if labour were in power

    It is a silly story
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,826
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    I've often said Wales is worse than Afghanistan.
    Dunno about Wales, but Wick, yes, definitely


    “I’d rather risk beheading by Taliban than live in Wick”

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/8113251/afghanistan-refugee-taliban-scotland/
    “We are Muslim but have no halal food, no Islamic centre and no Afghan community in Wick.”

    Rather different reasons from you for your irrational dislike of that fine burgh.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    There seems to be a report on gambling companies and their tracking of customers out

    https://twitter.com/cleanupgambling/status/1486595809038770176

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Boris has come to visit us

    Well, North Wales

    LIVE: Boris Johnson visits North Wales ahead of publication of Sue Gray report

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/live-boris-johnson-visits-north-22891437#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Well, he's obviously even more worried than when he went to Afghanistan to escape discomfort in the HoC.
    I've often said Wales is worse than Afghanistan.
    Dunno about Wales, but Wick, yes, definitely


    “I’d rather risk beheading by Taliban than live in Wick”

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/8113251/afghanistan-refugee-taliban-scotland/
    “We are Muslim but have no halal food, no Islamic centre and no Afghan community in Wick.”

    Rather different reasons from you for your irrational dislike of that fine burgh.
    He would literally rather be BEHEADED than live in Wick.

    Who can blame him. i have been there

    *shudder*
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    algarkirk said:

    MaxPB said:

    True this.


    Hold on, that comparison is BS because you can't compare right to centre+left. As we saw in 2010, the centre can end up siding with either wing.

    What's most dangerous for the Tories is the Lab+Green score being so high. When it comes down to it leftist voters will be given the opportunity to kick the Tories out and they won't sabotage that by voting Green.
    There is a but. If you regard LD as centre, equally unallied with left or right it leaves 2 puzzles:

    1) Why are there almost no Lab v LD seats, while there are loads of Con v LD seats - the obvious explanation being that in parts of the country the LDs take the position of the non Tory vote, but not the position of the non Lab vote

    2) Why is it assumed (rightly I think) that the LDs will in some way prop up a Labour government but not a Tory one, following the fall out after 2010.

    It's much easier when you're out of power to make a case for change. It's easier to imagine the Lib Dems aligning with the party that's taking power than the one that's on the verge of losing it.
    Plus the fact that the Conservatives have lurched in a more authoritarian direction that doesn't suit Lib Dem sensibilities. That's not so much a left-right thing. 2010 was about finances, but the next election will be about other things as well.
    The next election will very likely be about tax and finances. We're in a big hole and taxes will have to go up, Labour have an opportunity here to propose taxing older people and ensuring working people aren't squeezed even further. I think the Lib Dems might be interested in that too.
    We are going to end up with a wealth tax as it's virtual impossible to avoid it.

    Given that everything else is taxed to the point the laffer curve goes Nope you are having a laugh.

    I suspect that even this forthcoming Employer NI increase is a step 2 far and we will start to see a whole set of dodgy deals to mitigate it. Employee NI is hard to avoid, even with the new IR35 rules there are ways to reduce the employer NI side of things.
    I think a 1-2% asset tax on certain classes of assets is on the cards. As I've said for years, the Tories would do well to get ahead of it and propose one with exemptions on primary residences and total shareholdings under £500k. Labour certainly wouldn't be as generous on shareholdings and may not exempt primary residences.
    Labour aren't going to tax people's homes, certainly not those under a million quid or something.
    A million quid is easy to hit in London and the SE. My parents home is a bog standard 4 bedroom semi in a nice suburb and a house on their road sold for more than a million. That's why I said the Tories should get ahead of it and exempt all primary residences, Labour will likely have some kind of limit and would be unlikely to include shareholdings above a low value threshold.
    Yeah my house is worth well over a million. If Labour wanted to really exempt all but the properly wealthy they could go with £2mn or something, but then you're only going after a few people and it starts to look vindictive or politics of envy stuff. I'm guessing most people in £1mn homes are either nailed on Tories or nailed on Labour, and there aren't many in marginal seats, so maybe it doesn't matter. My point is, they're not going to tax the homes of 'normal' voters. The sensible thing would be a thorough reform of property taxation including the abolition of council tax and SDLT both of which are crappy taxes.
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