While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Could Putin save Boris? It would, surely, be impossible for Boris to stand down and for there to be a power transition while we at war. I know it happened in 1940, but that was in a very different era
Boris has also been relatively tough on Putin like his hero Churchill was with Hitler, he has never been into appeasement
John Rentoul @JohnRentoul Michael Ellis, speaking for govt, says: “I would urge the House to wait for the police to complete that work” 12:40 pm · 25 Jan 2022·Twitter for iPhone
Hunt could come out against Johnson and change the game now, conceivably.
Not at the party, not a supporter of Boris, but the leading plausible alternative candidate to the relative insiders of Truss and Sunak.
I don't think party members will support Hunt.
That may depend on the timing. If the Tories get a massive hammering at the local elections there might, just might, be a need to find someone who is seen as experienced and credible. Hopefully all but the most swivel-eyed members have moved on from their obsession with Leavers and Remainers and perhaps they realise they need someone who can actually govern.
Hunt polls almost as badly with the public as Truss and Patel and Gove.
You may as well keep Boris if you are a Tory if those are the alternatives.
Though personally I don't mind Hunt
It won’t be a Remainer. The division is still there so Hunt has no chance. Tho, like you, I am not personally averse
You know those people who told other people to delete (phone) records of the parties must be shitting bricks right now as the police have become involved.
Destroying evidence is a crime.
As I’m not a lawyer would you or Cyclefree clarify if that’s relevant here? I’m clear that destroying evidence during a police investigation is a crime however does the Gray investigation have the same legal status as a police investigation?
I suppose what I’m asking is, would destroying evidence/clearing embarrassing photos, be a legal offence in the parameter’s of the Gray investigation rather than just something that can be remarked upon and if the evidence was removed before the police investigation was announced can they be in legal trouble for destroying evidence?
Does a burglar get in more legal trouble, if he burnt the swag bag he used for the burglary, if he did it straight after the burglary as opposed to after being subject to a police investigation it’s a separate crime if he sneaks out at night and destroys this evidence?
The following are examples of acts which may constitute the offence, although General Charging Practice, above in this guidance and Charging Practice for Public Justice Offences, above in this guidance should be carefully considered before preferring a charge of perverting the course of justice:
persuading, or attempting to persuade, by intimidation, harm or otherwise, a witness not to give evidence, to alter his evidence or to give false evidence; interference with jurors with a view to influencing their verdict; false alibis and interference with evidence or exhibits, for example blood and DNA samples; providing false details of identity to the police or courts with a view to avoiding the consequences of a police investigation or prosecution; giving false information, or agreeing to give false information, to the police with a view to frustrating a police inquiry; for example, lying as to who was driving when a road traffic accident occurred; lending a driving licence to another to produce to the police following a notice to produce, thereby avoiding an offence of driving whilst disqualified being discovered; agreeing to give false evidence; concealing or destroying evidence concerning a police investigation to avoid arrest; assisting others to evade arrest for a significant period of time; and making a false allegation which wrongfully exposes another person to the risk of arrest, imprisonment pending trial, and possible wrongful conviction and sentence.
As the BBC states we are talking about a possible PCN here, not some kind of grand larceny 20 stretch.
Indeed, everyone going bonkers about possible ‘offences’ on the level of a parking ticket.
Meanwhile, there’s more than £4bn missing from the Covid recovery fund, and it looks like there’s a war about to break out in Eastern Europe.
Lets look at the £4bn write off. If your suggestion is that we need to leave the accused and his team in place because its a Big Scandal, there is a problem.
Exactly who set in place the fast track PPE route to allow non-incorporated companies owned by Tories to bid without tender for £107m contracts they had no ability to fulfil? And then chose not to bother asking for the money back?
Johnson is complicit in the open corruption of PPE contracts. He is hardly the right person to start an investigation. He should be *the subject* of the investigation
Multiple sources confirm Boris Johnson didn’t tell his cabinet of the police investigation *despite knowing before cabinet started the announcement was imminent*
This has caused Cabinet incredulity, I understand.
No10 says it was too “sensitive” to share with cabinet
The only choice for Tories is now is to VONC the Bozza
That would clear the air: to an extent. If Boris wins, so be it, he carries on (and we wait for the cops to report), if not, we’re off to the races, because he’s gone
Just letting it all suppurate is calamitous
I don't think it does clear the air if the VONC fails. It makes Tory MPs complicit. It only clears (and then only to an extent) if Johnson goes and they say "see, actions have consequences".
Good point. It is difficult to believe any government is happening. Ukraine and the huge current delays at borders should be the headlines in the news.
I worked for a certain large oil company, with a famous and prominent landmark London office. A tower, from the days when towers were unusual.
In the aftermath of 7/11 they commissioned a report from an external consultancy. An unusually stupid external consultancy.
The report was on the world wide effect on said oil company if the HQ building was destroyed.
The fools in the external company diligently reported that it would have no noticeable effect on the operations of the oil company. Which implied that profits would go up - since without the cost of the HQ and staff.....
The report was, of course, denounced as useless. And the external company marked as "do not use".
By the directors sitting on the top floor of said building.
Are convenience stores open 16 hours a day really that dangerous?
Could Putin save Boris? It would, surely, be impossible for Boris to stand down and for there to be a power transition while we at war. I know it happened in 1940, but that was in a very different era
Boris has also been relatively tough on Putin like his hero Churchill was with Hitler, he has never been into appeasement
Johnson's stance with Putin is nothing like Churchill's stance with Hitler. Nor should it be, as the circumstances are different.
Has a sitting Prime Minister ever been investigated by the police for crimes whilst in office before? I recall Blair was questioned under caution in 2004/5. Is this the same thing?
Johnson should resign. It is completely unacceptable to be even in this position, let alone try to think you can brazen it out.
Blair did indicate that if he had been charged he would have resigned immediately.
Good point. It is difficult to believe any government is happening. Ukraine and the huge current delays at borders should be the headlines in the news.
I worked for a certain large oil company, with a famous and prominent landmark London office. A tower, from the days when towers were unusual.
In the aftermath of 7/11 they commissioned a report from an external consultancy. An unusually stupid external consultancy.
The report was on the world wide effect on said oil company if the HQ building was destroyed.
The fools in the external company diligently reported that it would have no noticeable effect on the operations of the oil company. Which implied that profits would go up - since without the cost of the HQ and staff.....
The report was, of course, denounced as useless. And the external company marked as "do not use".
By the directors sitting on the top floor of said building.
Are convenience stores open 16 hours a day really that dangerous?
Multiple sources confirm Boris Johnson didn’t tell his cabinet of the police investigation *despite knowing before cabinet started the announcement was imminent*
This has caused Cabinet incredulity, I understand.
No10 says it was too “sensitive” to share with cabinet
If I were an undecided Tory MP, I think this morning's events would make me more, not less, likely to send a letter to Mr. Brady.
From my perspective (as a Tory MP) the Met investigation means that this stink is going to carry on for months, if not longer. I was hoping that Sue Gray would draw a line under it, one way or another. But no. I'm already sick of it, it will mean we get slaughtered in the May elections, and even if the story fades from the press it won't fade from the public's mindset. They've already made their mind up: Partygate was bad and Boris is neither to be trusted nor believed.
You know those people who told other people to delete (phone) records of the parties must be shitting bricks right now as the police have become involved.
Destroying evidence is a crime.
As I’m not a lawyer would you or Cyclefree clarify if that’s relevant here? I’m clear that destroying evidence during a police investigation is a crime however does the Gray investigation have the same legal status as a police investigation?
I suppose what I’m asking is, would destroying evidence/clearing embarrassing photos, be a legal offence in the parameter’s of the Gray investigation rather than just something that can be remarked upon and if the evidence was removed before the police investigation was announced can they be in legal trouble for destroying evidence?
Does a burglar get in more legal trouble, if he burnt the swag bag he used for the burglary, if he did it straight after the burglary as opposed to after being subject to a police investigation it’s a separate crime if he sneaks out at night and destroys this evidence?
The Gray investigation does not have the same status as a police one.
Remember that the police will be investigating breaches of the applicable Coronavirus Regulations. As the various reports on the CPS and Parliamentary reviews I've attached upthread show, they have often not got this right in the past when they have tried to bring prosecutions. Getting everything right this time will be critical.
@Cyclefree Can you explain why Gray can't report until after the police investigation? I assume it is to prevent prejudicing a prosecution, but I don't understand why as anything in the report can be refuted or confirmed in court and if the report had been produced last week I assume that wouldn't stop a prosecution.
It's down to the Terms of Reference I understand.
An internal disciplinary report could certainly be concluded and action taken. But the problem here is that if you uncover evidence of a potential crime and you report it to the police then the police will want their investigation to take precedence.
We had just this issue in the Adoboli case. Disciplinary proceedings against some of his colleagues could only take place once it was confirmed that the police would not be charging them. The final FCA report into the bank was not published until after the conclusion of the criminal trial etc.
When the original Case investigation was set up I suspect little thought was given to the implications hence the current mess.
Would Cummings stunt that upset you yesterday of refusing to be interviewed would be harder to pull off if the Police are now involved?
Pro-lockdown but then questions the equity of mandatory vaccines for NHS staff on the basis that only 6/10 black people have had their second jab compared with 9/10 white people.
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
If I were an undecided Tory MP, I think this morning's events would make me more, not less, likely to send a letter to Mr. Brady.
From my perspective (as a Tory MP) the Met investigation means that this stink is going to carry on for months, if not longer. I was hoping that Sue Gray would draw a line under it, one way or another. But no. I'm already sick of it, it will mean we get slaughtered in the May elections, and even if the story fades from the press it won't fade from the public's mindset. They've already made their mind up: Partygate was bad and Boris is neither to be trusted nor believed.
You know those people who told other people to delete (phone) records of the parties must be shitting bricks right now as the police have become involved.
Destroying evidence is a crime.
As I’m not a lawyer would you or Cyclefree clarify if that’s relevant here? I’m clear that destroying evidence during a police investigation is a crime however does the Gray investigation have the same legal status as a police investigation?
I suppose what I’m asking is, would destroying evidence/clearing embarrassing photos, be a legal offence in the parameter’s of the Gray investigation rather than just something that can be remarked upon and if the evidence was removed before the police investigation was announced can they be in legal trouble for destroying evidence?
Does a burglar get in more legal trouble, if he burnt the swag bag he used for the burglary, if he did it straight after the burglary as opposed to after being subject to a police investigation it’s a separate crime if he sneaks out at night and destroys this evidence?
The Gray investigation does not have the same status as a police one.
Remember that the police will be investigating breaches of the applicable Coronavirus Regulations. As the various reports on the CPS and Parliamentary reviews I've attached upthread show, they have often not got this right in the past when they have tried to bring prosecutions. Getting everything right this time will be critical.
@Cyclefree Can you explain why Gray can't report until after the police investigation? I assume it is to prevent prejudicing a prosecution, but I don't understand why as anything in the report can be refuted or confirmed in court and if the report had been produced last week I assume that wouldn't stop a prosecution.
It's down to the Terms of Reference I understand.
An internal disciplinary report could certainly be concluded and action taken. But the problem here is that if you uncover evidence of a potential crime and you report it to the police then the police will want their investigation to take precedence.
We had just this issue in the Adoboli case. Disciplinary proceedings against some of his colleagues could only take place once it was confirmed that the police would not be charging them. The final FCA report into the bank was not published until after the conclusion of the criminal trial etc.
When the original Case investigation was set up I suspect little thought was given to the implications hence the current mess.
Q: "Does the PM think it's permissible to break the law for 10 minutes?" No.10 "I'm not going to pass judgement on that." Q: "Did the PM regularly meet his interior designer at 2pm on a work day at the height of a pandemic?" No.10: "I'm not aware who Lulu Lytle was there to meet" https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1485958854236114944
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
The only choice for Tories is now is to VONC the Bozza
That would clear the air: to an extent. If Boris wins, so be it, he carries on (and we wait for the cops to report), if not, we’re off to the races, because he’s gone
Just letting it all suppurate is calamitous
I don't think it does clear the air if the VONC fails. It makes Tory MPs complicit. It only clears (and then only to an extent) if Johnson goes and they say "see, actions have consequences".
Actions don't have consequences though. Being the wrong type of person has consequences. Consequences are for the little people.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Q: "Does the PM think it's permissible to break the law for 10 minutes?" No.10 "I'm not going to pass judgement on that." Q: "Did the PM regularly meet his interior designer at 2pm on a work day at the height of a pandemic?" No.10: "I'm not aware who Lulu Lytle was there to meet" https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1485958854236114944
Wasn't it Lulu Lytle's work day? And he was the client.
Here we go Crabbe, saying no leadership while Ukraine is in trouble.
Well, we're certainly getting no leadership..
I wouldn't have thought he was the most natural ally of Boris, but if @AlastairMeeks had him down as in any way hostile, I guess Daily Politics should change that row to, at worst, neutral.
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
I saw that yesterday, didn't make any sense - if the report is correct and the driver hit both of them then it was, at best, an extremely cack-handed attempt to help.
Will be interesting when the full details emerge as it just looks bizarre at present. Tragic for all those involved, of course.
Edit: even down to the eyewitness quote of a "girl being attacked by a gentleman", somewhat oxymoronic, that.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
Yes, this should be leading the headlines. Not normal.
I'm finding the lack of reporting of this utterly baffling. This is every bit as horrific as the Everard case, or the Neesa case, yet there seems to be an almost total lack of press interest. its all about stupid No 10 wankers who convinced themselves that their little drinkies at work etc were fine, while drafting laws for the plebs. I know a lot of people are would up by the 'parties', but the stabbing and running over seem to me to be more newsworthy right now.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Q: "Does the PM think it's permissible to break the law for 10 minutes?" No.10 "I'm not going to pass judgement on that." Q: "Did the PM regularly meet his interior designer at 2pm on a work day at the height of a pandemic?" No.10: "I'm not aware who Lulu Lytle was there to meet" https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1485958854236114944
Wasn't it Lulu Lytle's work day? And he was the client.
That's probably why she said she wasn't at the party as a guest.
Could Putin save Boris? It would, surely, be impossible for Boris to stand down and for there to be a power transition while we at war. I know it happened in 1940, but that was in a very different era
Boris has also been relatively tough on Putin like his hero Churchill was with Hitler, he has never been into appeasement
Johnson's stance with Putin is nothing like Churchill's stance with Hitler. Nor should it be, as the circumstances are different.
Indeed. One is a dictator committing genocide and atrocities who is invading European countries and a serious threat to world peace.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Note, I say FROWN not SCREAM. I am not trying to scare the flakier PBers. But this is a cause for some modest concern
You are making the same mistake again (are you channeling @Chris ?) Its time to rely on the protections we have.
Anecdote from a colleague. His daughter had delta back in November - mildy ill, but pre pandemic would not have been off school (sore throat). Tested positive last week (assumed omicron). NO SYMPTOMS. Can you think of another situation where someone in effectively perfect health is locked at home for 5 days? Its madness.
Omicron 2 will be the same.
Look at our MV beds. Declining, and in fact showed no spike from omicron at all.
Chill, enjoy your knapping in the sun, and stop trying to stir up people about covid...
Has a sitting Prime Minister ever been investigated by the police for crimes whilst in office before? I recall Blair was questioned under caution in 2004/5. Is this the same thing?
Johnson should resign. It is completely unacceptable to be even in this position, let alone try to think you can brazen it out.
I believe that's incorrect as a point of fact. It was considered over cash for honours, but ultimately Blair's interviews were NOT under caution (some aides were questioned under caution).
In general terms, interviews under caution are for suspects, and those not under caution are for witnesses. In that case, Blair was fairly clearly between those two positions. It'd be ludicrous to say he was simply someone who was in the same building at the time as there was a benefit to him as Labour leader if donations were obtained from people wanting honours. But there wasn't really the direct evidence of personal involvement (whether because he wasn't or was bloody careful in terms of emails etc to keep it all at arm's length) and Downing Street would have argued strongly that there shouldn't be the implication (and Police didn't have the basis to say) that Blair was under suspicion himself.
Johnson is in a different situation in that there is no argument he was at several relevant events and the potential offences include attending, not merely organising, events in breach of the rules in place. So while any offences are less serious than cash for peerages in terms of legal consequences, it's clearer that he's a suspect in the case of some events at Downing Street, and not merely a witness.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Note, I say FROWN not SCREAM. I am not trying to scare the flakier PBers. But this is a cause for some modest concern
You are making the same mistake again (are you channeling @Chris ?) Its time to rely on the protections we have.
Anecdote from a colleague. His daughter had delta back in November - mildy ill, but pre pandemic would not have been off school (sore throat). Tested positive last week (assumed omicron). NO SYMPTOMS. Can you think of another situation where someone in effectively perfect health is locked at home for 5 days? Its madness.
Omicron 2 will be the same.
Look at our MV beds. Declining, and in fact showed no spike from omicron at all.
Chill, enjoy your knapping in the sun, and stop trying to stir up people about covid...
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Note, I say FROWN not SCREAM. I am not trying to scare the flakier PBers. But this is a cause for some modest concern
You are making the same mistake again (are you channeling @Chris ?) Its time to rely on the protections we have.
Anecdote from a colleague. His daughter had delta back in November - mildy ill, but pre pandemic would not have been off school (sore throat). Tested positive last week (assumed omicron). NO SYMPTOMS. Can you think of another situation where someone in effectively perfect health is locked at home for 5 days? Its madness.
Omicron 2 will be the same.
Look at our MV beds. Declining, and in fact showed no spike from omicron at all.
Chill, enjoy your knapping in the sun, and stop trying to stir up people about covid...
Also - so far in the UK 436 cases (detected). First case in December. If it was outcompeting the original omicron, it would surely be far more prevalent by now.
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
Yes, this should be leading the headlines. Not normal.
I'm finding the lack of reporting of this utterly baffling. This is every bit as horrific as the Everard case, or the Neesa case, yet there seems to be an almost total lack of press interest. its all about stupid No 10 wankers who convinced themselves that their little drinkies at work etc were fine, while drafting laws for the plebs. I know a lot of people are would up by the 'parties', but the stabbing and running over seem to me to be more newsworthy right now.
It's not even the lead story on London News, this is:
You know those people who told other people to delete (phone) records of the parties must be shitting bricks right now as the police have become involved.
Destroying evidence is a crime.
As I’m not a lawyer would you or Cyclefree clarify if that’s relevant here? I’m clear that destroying evidence during a police investigation is a crime however does the Gray investigation have the same legal status as a police investigation?
I suppose what I’m asking is, would destroying evidence/clearing embarrassing photos, be a legal offence in the parameter’s of the Gray investigation rather than just something that can be remarked upon and if the evidence was removed before the police investigation was announced can they be in legal trouble for destroying evidence?
Does a burglar get in more legal trouble, if he burnt the swag bag he used for the burglary, if he did it straight after the burglary as opposed to after being subject to a police investigation it’s a separate crime if he sneaks out at night and destroys this evidence?
The Gray investigation does not have the same status as a police one.
Remember that the police will be investigating breaches of the applicable Coronavirus Regulations. As the various reports on the CPS and Parliamentary reviews I've attached upthread show, they have often not got this right in the past when they have tried to bring prosecutions. Getting everything right this time will be critical.
@Cyclefree Can you explain why Gray can't report until after the police investigation? I assume it is to prevent prejudicing a prosecution, but I don't understand why as anything in the report can be refuted or confirmed in court and if the report had been produced last week I assume that wouldn't stop a prosecution.
It's down to the Terms of Reference I understand.
An internal disciplinary report could certainly be concluded and action taken. But the problem here is that if you uncover evidence of a potential crime and you report it to the police then the police will want their investigation to take precedence.
We had just this issue in the Adoboli case. Disciplinary proceedings against some of his colleagues could only take place once it was confirmed that the police would not be charging them. The final FCA report into the bank was not published until after the conclusion of the criminal trial etc.
When the original Case investigation was set up I suspect little thought was given to the implications hence the current mess.
Would Cummings stunt that upset you yesterday of refusing to be interviewed would be harder to pull off if the Police are now involved?
Yes.
It depends. If you are interviewed under caution you are told that you don't have to say anything. For suspects the right never to say anything at all throughout the entire process is sacrosanct.
Q: "Does the PM think it's permissible to break the law for 10 minutes?" No.10 "I'm not going to pass judgement on that." Q: "Did the PM regularly meet his interior designer at 2pm on a work day at the height of a pandemic?" No.10: "I'm not aware who Lulu Lytle was there to meet" https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1485958854236114944
Wasn't it Lulu Lytle's work day? And he was the client.
That's probably why she said she wasn't at the party as a guest.
She's probably going to say she was waitressing.
She's probably going to say that the PM was her client and she wanted to talk to him about her work.
The question as per the above: "Did the PM regularly meet his interior designer at 2pm on a work day at the height of a pandemic?" was supposed to be a killer blow but just highlights after a moment's thought (try it sometime) that speaking to your client about XXX is likely to have been a perfectly legitimate activity.
It's sexist of the questioner (though of course not you, Chris) to see it all from the man's perspective.
Edit: although the "waitressing" comment does show a worrying tendency on your part.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Now that is interesting - could Cressida be trying to ensure herself and her force come out of it all a bit better ? What is all this police testimony that she seems so interested in, exactly.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Note, I say FROWN not SCREAM. I am not trying to scare the flakier PBers. But this is a cause for some modest concern
You are making the same mistake again (are you channeling @Chris ?) Its time to rely on the protections we have.
Anecdote from a colleague. His daughter had delta back in November - mildy ill, but pre pandemic would not have been off school (sore throat). Tested positive last week (assumed omicron). NO SYMPTOMS. Can you think of another situation where someone in effectively perfect health is locked at home for 5 days? Its madness.
Omicron 2 will be the same.
Look at our MV beds. Declining, and in fact showed no spike from omicron at all.
Chill, enjoy your knapping in the sun, and stop trying to stir up people about covid...
We need to stop testing well people.....
Exactly what I told my colleague, and he agreed. Its now ridiculous.
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
Yes, this should be leading the headlines. Not normal.
I'm finding the lack of reporting of this utterly baffling. This is every bit as horrific as the Everard case, or the Neesa case, yet there seems to be an almost total lack of press interest. its all about stupid No 10 wankers who convinced themselves that their little drinkies at work etc were fine, while drafting laws for the plebs. I know a lot of people are would up by the 'parties', but the stabbing and running over seem to me to be more newsworthy right now.
It's not even the lead story on London News, this is:
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
That could be an interesting development. Cabinet Office: We can't possibly release the report as it would prejudice the ongoing police investigation Police: No it really won't. And it would be beneficial if it was released in full as it would aid our investigation by flushing out all of these issues Minister: Which is why we can't possibly release the report as it would prejudice the ongoing police investigation
If the Gray report has to be published at the Met's request, it contains damning stuff as we already know and then the Met go at it this is a disaster for Team Accused. And they can't possibly hide behind "we can't release this because police" when the police are asking them to release it.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Note, I say FROWN not SCREAM. I am not trying to scare the flakier PBers. But this is a cause for some modest concern
You are making the same mistake again (are you channeling @Chris ?) Its time to rely on the protections we have.
Anecdote from a colleague. His daughter had delta back in November - mildy ill, but pre pandemic would not have been off school (sore throat). Tested positive last week (assumed omicron). NO SYMPTOMS. Can you think of another situation where someone in effectively perfect health is locked at home for 5 days? Its madness.
Omicron 2 will be the same.
Look at our MV beds. Declining, and in fact showed no spike from omicron at all.
Chill, enjoy your knapping in the sun, and stop trying to stir up people about covid...
We need to stop testing well people.....
@Anabobazina I think it was who many moons ago summed it up perfectly which, with minor adaptation is valid today - we are a nation of healthy people trying to avoid other healthy people for fear of a test being shown to be positive.
You know those people who told other people to delete (phone) records of the parties must be shitting bricks right now as the police have become involved.
Destroying evidence is a crime.
As I’m not a lawyer would you or Cyclefree clarify if that’s relevant here? I’m clear that destroying evidence during a police investigation is a crime however does the Gray investigation have the same legal status as a police investigation?
I suppose what I’m asking is, would destroying evidence/clearing embarrassing photos, be a legal offence in the parameter’s of the Gray investigation rather than just something that can be remarked upon and if the evidence was removed before the police investigation was announced can they be in legal trouble for destroying evidence?
Does a burglar get in more legal trouble, if he burnt the swag bag he used for the burglary, if he did it straight after the burglary as opposed to after being subject to a police investigation it’s a separate crime if he sneaks out at night and destroys this evidence?
The Gray investigation does not have the same status as a police one.
Remember that the police will be investigating breaches of the applicable Coronavirus Regulations. As the various reports on the CPS and Parliamentary reviews I've attached upthread show, they have often not got this right in the past when they have tried to bring prosecutions. Getting everything right this time will be critical.
@Cyclefree Can you explain why Gray can't report until after the police investigation? I assume it is to prevent prejudicing a prosecution, but I don't understand why as anything in the report can be refuted or confirmed in court and if the report had been produced last week I assume that wouldn't stop a prosecution.
It's down to the Terms of Reference I understand.
An internal disciplinary report could certainly be concluded and action taken. But the problem here is that if you uncover evidence of a potential crime and you report it to the police then the police will want their investigation to take precedence.
We had just this issue in the Adoboli case. Disciplinary proceedings against some of his colleagues could only take place once it was confirmed that the police would not be charging them. The final FCA report into the bank was not published until after the conclusion of the criminal trial etc.
When the original Case investigation was set up I suspect little thought was given to the implications hence the current mess.
Thank you. Not sure I really understand though.
I should have said why I don't understand. The police might want their investigation to take precedence, but can they insist on it particularly as a police investigation will at worse result in a fine and there are more important national issues involved. Why does Gray have to submit to this? Can't she tell them to get stuffed.
It is also not unreasonable to get different outcomes particularly as you will have different levels of proof. Gray could come up with a damning report without there being any successful criminal case. I presume for instance that criminal and civil cases can happen in parallel or is that not the case?
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Note, I say FROWN not SCREAM. I am not trying to scare the flakier PBers. But this is a cause for some modest concern
Third beer downed, I presume.
Sadly, no. Stony sober. Had to go into central Colombo to get my train ticket for Galle
Soon gym, then gin, however!
Two beers to stony sober in a matter of an hour or so is some physiological processing.
Lol no. What I mean is: two beers does not get me remotely drunk, as I am such a heavy boozer. It’s like inhaling three champagne bubbles, for most people
That could be an interesting development. Cabinet Office: We can't possibly release the report as it would prejudice the ongoing police investigation Police: No it really won't. And it would be beneficial if it was released in full as it would aid our investigation by flushing out all of these issues Minister: Which is why we can't possibly release the report as it would prejudice the ongoing police investigation
If the Gray report has to be published at the Met's request, it contains damning stuff as we already know and then the Met go at it this is a disaster for Team Accused. And they can't possibly hide behind "we can't release this because police" when the police are asking them to release it.
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
Yes, this should be leading the headlines. Not normal.
No idea, but the press generally likes stories where it is clear who is on which side, and where there are clear goodies and baddies. Maybe there isn't enough to go on yet to tell whether this is a story that readers/viewers will find absorbing.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Note, I say FROWN not SCREAM. I am not trying to scare the flakier PBers. But this is a cause for some modest concern
Third beer downed, I presume.
Sadly, no. Stony sober. Had to go into central Colombo to get my train ticket for Galle
Soon gym, then gin, however!
Two beers to stony sober in a matter of an hour or so is some physiological processing.
Lol no. What I mean is: two beers does not get me remotely drunk, as I am such a heavy boozer. It’s like inhaling three champagne bubbles, for most people
I couldn't do the beers (however many) over a nice lunch and then hit the gym. Get all the exercise, etc out of the way then yes gin fine.
Has Johnson asked Dick to do this - to buy him some time?
I doubt that. Sue Gray was uncomfortable in the position she'd been placed in and has done this to spread the load and the spotlight. That's what I think has happened. It's come from her.
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
Yes, this should be leading the headlines. Not normal.
I'm finding the lack of reporting of this utterly baffling. This is every bit as horrific as the Everard case, or the Neesa case, yet there seems to be an almost total lack of press interest. its all about stupid No 10 wankers who convinced themselves that their little drinkies at work etc were fine, while drafting laws for the plebs. I know a lot of people are would up by the 'parties', but the stabbing and running over seem to me to be more newsworthy right now.
It's not even the lead story on London News, this is:
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
Yes, this should be leading the headlines. Not normal.
I'm finding the lack of reporting of this utterly baffling. This is every bit as horrific as the Everard case, or the Neesa case, yet there seems to be an almost total lack of press interest. its all about stupid No 10 wankers who convinced themselves that their little drinkies at work etc were fine, while drafting laws for the plebs. I know a lot of people are would up by the 'parties', but the stabbing and running over seem to me to be more newsworthy right now.
It's not even the lead story on London News, this is:
Maybe the press know that the perpetrator knew the victim, but even so, it should be getting more attention than it is.
Also the whole aspect of the driver being arrested for seemingly using his car to try to save her. If its as reported he is a hero.
That's not inconsistent with the driver being arrested, to be honest.
If you've got a body, a weapon (the car) and a person controlling the weapon (the driver) that's just standard. It's sensible from the perspective of the driver that they are legally represented and, in the interview, have all the protections afforded to a suspect. The fact that, on the face of it, they may well have a good case that they have not committed an offence doesn't actually change that.
I recall some years ago, near where I lived at the time, a mentally ill neighbour broke into a family's home and attacked the people there. The attacker himself was stabbed to death by the father of the household. It was all deeply tragic and I believe the father was very sympathetically treated by Police. But, formally, there was an arrest, interview under caution, and release without charge.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Note, I say FROWN not SCREAM. I am not trying to scare the flakier PBers. But this is a cause for some modest concern
You are making the same mistake again (are you channeling @Chris ?) Its time to rely on the protections we have.
Anecdote from a colleague. His daughter had delta back in November - mildy ill, but pre pandemic would not have been off school (sore throat). Tested positive last week (assumed omicron). NO SYMPTOMS. Can you think of another situation where someone in effectively perfect health is locked at home for 5 days? Its madness.
Omicron 2 will be the same.
Look at our MV beds. Declining, and in fact showed no spike from omicron at all.
Chill, enjoy your knapping in the sun, and stop trying to stir up people about covid...
If I want to stir people up, I am very capable of doing that, as you know
My saying “this is cause for some modest concern” is really not wild scare-mongering. I am just stating the facts, meagre as they are
We have a new variant (or sub variant - opinions differ). It seems to have some troubling properties - super transmissible, even more infectious than Original Omicron, BUT there are also lots of hopeful signs that it is no worse than Omicron, and will just fade into the general run of Covid, as it slowly becomes endemic. However this variant may make that progression bumpier than we hoped
That Parisian article gets it about right. Absolutely no need to panic yet, at all. But concerned vigilance? Yes
Your attitude seems to be: we just ignore any Covid developments now, and then it will completely go away. Recent history tells us this is not sensible
Has Johnson asked Dick to do this - to buy him some time?
I doubt that. Sue Gray was uncomfortable in the position she'd been placed in and has done this to spread the load and the spotlight. That's what I think has happened. It's come from her.
I think that's a good call. Waking up every day as you noted earlier to see that the entire UK government hinges upon your report must be unnerving to say the least. I think she laid off some risk and put her umbrella up.
That could be an interesting development. Cabinet Office: We can't possibly release the report as it would prejudice the ongoing police investigation Police: No it really won't. And it would be beneficial if it was released in full as it would aid our investigation by flushing out all of these issues Minister: Which is why we can't possibly release the report as it would prejudice the ongoing police investigation
If the Gray report has to be published at the Met's request, it contains damning stuff as we already know and then the Met go at it this is a disaster for Team Accused. And they can't possibly hide behind "we can't release this because police" when the police are asking them to release it.
How many days till it leaks anyway?
At this rate we will find it gets leaked by the Met...
Some suspicion this morning at "have the Met done Boris a favour". Its the opposite. Roused from their position of "its all a bit old news" with realisation of the reputational damage, they appear to be going for it. Listening to Dick's statements earlier they simply cannot now treat the accused any differently to any other people they nicked for doing the same.
So instead of favours its the opposite. They aren't going to give an inch of cover to the spinner trying to pretend that nothing can now be released or even discussed whilst the met do their jobs.
Won't be long before HY is joining the "defund the police" demands from nobbers like Fabricant and the rest of the lickspittle sycophant wing of the Tory party.
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
Yes, this should be leading the headlines. Not normal.
I'm finding the lack of reporting of this utterly baffling. This is every bit as horrific as the Everard case, or the Neesa case, yet there seems to be an almost total lack of press interest. its all about stupid No 10 wankers who convinced themselves that their little drinkies at work etc were fine, while drafting laws for the plebs. I know a lot of people are would up by the 'parties', but the stabbing and running over seem to me to be more newsworthy right now.
There is some confusion over ethnicity and age, as well
An early Guardian report - quoting eye-witnesses - said the knife-wielder was young and black and the woman was the same age - 20s - and white. The driver was a bit older
In more recent reports all references to ethnicity have gone and the man and woman are in their 40s?! Quite odd
But of course eye-witness accounts are notoriously various
I think that what needs to happen now, in order for government to continue, is Boris to stand down as PM and let Raab take over while the investigation takes place. If the police find Boris has committed no offence, he can take over again in due course.
(I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that you think I might have been influenced in that conclusion by my bet at 44/1 on Raab Next PM).
The only choice for Tories is now is to VONC the Bozza
That would clear the air: to an extent. If Boris wins, so be it, he carries on (and we wait for the cops to report), if not, we’re off to the races, because he’s gone
Guardian reporting the Gray report might be split in half, with the part covering events that were not deemed illegal published before the police investigation and the part dealing with events deemed illegal only published later. Presumably the government spin will be "Gray finds govt did nothing wrong" when the first part is published. I mean, they can't possibly think we're that stupid...
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
Yes, this should be leading the headlines. Not normal.
I'm finding the lack of reporting of this utterly baffling. This is every bit as horrific as the Everard case, or the Neesa case, yet there seems to be an almost total lack of press interest. its all about stupid No 10 wankers who convinced themselves that their little drinkies at work etc were fine, while drafting laws for the plebs. I know a lot of people are would up by the 'parties', but the stabbing and running over seem to me to be more newsworthy right now.
It's not even the lead story on London News, this is:
Maybe the press know that the perpetrator knew the victim, but even so, it should be getting more attention than it is.
Also the whole aspect of the driver being arrested for seemingly using his car to try to save her. If its as reported he is a hero.
That's not inconsistent with the driver being arrested, to be honest.
If you've got a body, a weapon (the car) and a person controlling the weapon (the driver) that's just standard. It's sensible from the perspective of the driver that they are legally represented and, in the interview, have all the protections afforded to a suspect. The fact that, on the face of it, they may well have a good case that they have not committed an offence doesn't actually change that.
I recall some years ago, near where I lived at the time, a mentally ill neighbour broke into a family's home and attacked the people there. The attacker himself was stabbed to death by the father of the household. It was all deeply tragic and I believe the father was very sympathetically treated by Police. But, formally, there was an arrest, interview under caution, and release without charge.
Absolutely, and I hope that is what is happening here. Its more the press/media blackout I'm finding wierd, even if just to have her friends and relatives saying nice things about her.
"But at the lobby briefing the spokesman implied that the Gray inquiry would be effectively split in two. The findings relating to events that were not deemed illegal might be published soon, he implied. But the other findings would be held back, the spokesman told journalists."
This is very amusing if Cressida Dick is countering it.
That could be an interesting development. Cabinet Office: We can't possibly release the report as it would prejudice the ongoing police investigation Police: No it really won't. And it would be beneficial if it was released in full as it would aid our investigation by flushing out all of these issues Minister: Which is why we can't possibly release the report as it would prejudice the ongoing police investigation
If the Gray report has to be published at the Met's request, it contains damning stuff as we already know and then the Met go at it this is a disaster for Team Accused. And they can't possibly hide behind "we can't release this because police" when the police are asking them to release it.
The Police would be right in this respect.
What Downing Street actually mean is not that Sue Gray reporting would prejudice the investigation but that it would make it harder for Johnson (and others) to run certain lines of defence (e.g. harder in practice to say "well, prove I was there on the evening of the 12th" when Sue Gray has said "on the evening of the 12th...") So it's to protect Johnson personally, not to protect the integrity of a Police investigation.
It's a misconception that as soon as Police investigate a crime, nobody can say anything about it. Just look at how widely reported unsolved cases are. Many can recall Dr Shipman himself choosing to give a public statement when he was under investigation and had been arrested. Things change when charges are laid, but there's absolutely no "Police are looking into this so nobody can say anything" rule.
Has Johnson asked Dick to do this - to buy him some time?
I doubt that. Sue Gray was uncomfortable in the position she'd been placed in and has done this to spread the load and the spotlight. That's what I think has happened. It's come from her.
I think that's a good call. Waking up every day as you noted earlier to see that the entire UK government hinges upon your report must be unnerving to say the least. I think she laid off some risk and put her umbrella up.
Yes, the Met don't care whether she publishes the Report this week or not. But she cares. She doesn't want to. Don't blame her at all. Ridiculous position she'd been put in. Tory MPs can act if they want to. They know he's a wrong un. Don't need Sue Gray or the cops to tell them that.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Note, I say FROWN not SCREAM. I am not trying to scare the flakier PBers. But this is a cause for some modest concern
You are making the same mistake again (are you channeling @Chris ?) Its time to rely on the protections we have.
Anecdote from a colleague. His daughter had delta back in November - mildy ill, but pre pandemic would not have been off school (sore throat). Tested positive last week (assumed omicron). NO SYMPTOMS. Can you think of another situation where someone in effectively perfect health is locked at home for 5 days? Its madness.
Omicron 2 will be the same.
Look at our MV beds. Declining, and in fact showed no spike from omicron at all.
Chill, enjoy your knapping in the sun, and stop trying to stir up people about covid...
If I want to stir people up, I am very capable of doing that, as you know
My saying “this is cause for some modest concern” is really not wild scare-mongering. I am just stating the facts, meagre as they are
We have a new variant (or sub variant - opinions differ). It seems to have some troubling properties - super transmissible, even more infectious than Original Omicron, BUT there are also lots of hopeful signs that it is no worse than Omicron, and will just fade into the general run of Covid, as it slowly becomes endemic. However this variant may make that progression bumpier than we hoped
That Parisian article gets it about right. Absolutely no need to panic yet, at all. But concerned vigilance? Yes
Your attitude seems to be: we just ignore any Covid developments now, and then it will completely go away. Recent history tells us this is not sensible
Not so long ago you lauded me for 'calling' omicron right. Maybe I was just lucky?
I am fine with being sensible, but I think the term 'variant of interest' is correct. I do not expect anything much to come of it for the reasons above - we have now reached a very good point with protection against serious consequences from covid, and this WILL apply to BA2. The role of the boosters was mainly about trying to reduce the number of infections, not because they would all need ICU etc, but to avoid the disruption that we have seen with people forced to be off work. The underlying protections were still good for most. They still are.
While we are all focused on partygate, Omicron OMG, alias BA2, is still out there, lurking. It has completely overtaken BA1 infections in Denmark, and is rising exponentially, from a low base, in the Netherlands, UK, Germany and France. Is this something to worry about?
Yes, perhaps:
“After contracting Omicron, “we could potentially recontaminate ourselves with BA.2”, warns Olivier Véran #BA2 #Variant”
I see nothing to worry about. The main reason for omicron version 1 (classic) being such a paper tiger in the UK is the high level of protection from vaccination and prior infection (97% of adults with antibodies). Its entirely possible that omicron version 2 may re-infect some who have had omicron 1. So what? Chances of it being severe are exceptionally low, for the reasons discussed many times on here.
Hmm
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
Note, I say FROWN not SCREAM. I am not trying to scare the flakier PBers. But this is a cause for some modest concern
You are making the same mistake again (are you channeling @Chris ?) Its time to rely on the protections we have.
Anecdote from a colleague. His daughter had delta back in November - mildy ill, but pre pandemic would not have been off school (sore throat). Tested positive last week (assumed omicron). NO SYMPTOMS. Can you think of another situation where someone in effectively perfect health is locked at home for 5 days? Its madness.
Omicron 2 will be the same.
Look at our MV beds. Declining, and in fact showed no spike from omicron at all.
Chill, enjoy your knapping in the sun, and stop trying to stir up people about covid...
If I want to stir people up, I am very capable of doing that, as you know
My saying “this is cause for some modest concern” is really not wild scare-mongering. I am just stating the facts, meagre as they are
We have a new variant (or sub variant - opinions differ). It seems to have some troubling properties - super transmissible, even more infectious than Original Omicron, BUT there are also lots of hopeful signs that it is no worse than Omicron, and will just fade into the general run of Covid, as it slowly becomes endemic. However this variant may make that progression bumpier than we hoped
That Parisian article gets it about right. Absolutely no need to panic yet, at all. But concerned vigilance? Yes
Your attitude seems to be: we just ignore any Covid developments now, and then it will completely go away. Recent history tells us this is not sensible
It is possible to be in a state of concerned vigilance and to believe that all the current set of measures have to be dropped immediately. I've finally got COVID and the self isolation rules I am having to follow have caused financial losses for me, and problems for the organisation I am working for and various other issues that would in normal times be unthinkable. What I have got is mild flu. It is not a justification for failing to meet my work and personal commitments. I don't see the point of any of it. I only know I've got it because I took an LFT test for assymptomatic as I didn't have any of the 'main covid' symptoms. I've basically been penalised for following the rules.
Edit - and to add - whenever I call someone to tell them I can't do something because I've got covid I get the sense they don't believe me. Covid has obviously become the excuse of choice for liars and skivers.
Is it just possible that tory voters are much more angry at Boris for rising gas bills and soaring inflation than they are about parties?
Not my experience on the doorstep, frankly. People have cost of living worries certainly, and want to know how the Government will respond, but that's not the source of the (very real) anger.
MPs claiming it isn't coming up and is all Westminster bubble are lying. It really is as simple as it seems.
Guardian reporting the Gray report might be split in half, with the part covering events that were not deemed illegal published before the police investigation and the part dealing with events deemed illegal only published later. Presumably the government spin will be "Gray finds govt did nothing wrong" when the first part is published. I mean, they can't possibly think we're that stupid...
Has Johnson asked Dick to do this - to buy him some time?
I doubt that. Sue Gray was uncomfortable in the position she'd been placed in and has done this to spread the load and the spotlight. That's what I think has happened. It's come from her.
I think that's a good call. Waking up every day as you noted earlier to see that the entire UK government hinges upon your report must be unnerving to say the least. I think she laid off some risk and put her umbrella up.
Yes, the Met don't care whether she publishes the Report this week or not. But she cares. She doesn't want to. Don't blame her at all. Ridiculous position she'd been put in. Tory MPs can act if they want to. They know he's a wrong un. Don't need Sue Gray or the cops to tell them that.
You do know that subordinate and relative clauses are not the work of the devil don't you. Or are we supposed to imagine Robert Hardy as Churchill reading out your post.
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
Yes, this should be leading the headlines. Not normal.
I'm finding the lack of reporting of this utterly baffling. This is every bit as horrific as the Everard case, or the Neesa case, yet there seems to be an almost total lack of press interest. its all about stupid No 10 wankers who convinced themselves that their little drinkies at work etc were fine, while drafting laws for the plebs. I know a lot of people are would up by the 'parties', but the stabbing and running over seem to me to be more newsworthy right now.
It's not even the lead story on London News, this is:
Maybe the press know that the perpetrator knew the victim, but even so, it should be getting more attention than it is.
Also the whole aspect of the driver being arrested for seemingly using his car to try to save her. If its as reported he is a hero.
That's not inconsistent with the driver being arrested, to be honest.
If you've got a body, a weapon (the car) and a person controlling the weapon (the driver) that's just standard. It's sensible from the perspective of the driver that they are legally represented and, in the interview, have all the protections afforded to a suspect. The fact that, on the face of it, they may well have a good case that they have not committed an offence doesn't actually change that.
I recall some years ago, near where I lived at the time, a mentally ill neighbour broke into a family's home and attacked the people there. The attacker himself was stabbed to death by the father of the household. It was all deeply tragic and I believe the father was very sympathetically treated by Police. But, formally, there was an arrest, interview under caution, and release without charge.
Absolutely, and I hope that is what is happening here. Its more the press/media blackout I'm finding wierd, even if just to have her friends and relatives saying nice things about her.
Maybe more will come out?
There’s been an arrest, so the whole thing is instantly sub judice isn’t it?
Guardian reporting the Gray report might be split in half, with the part covering events that were not deemed illegal published before the police investigation and the part dealing with events deemed illegal only published later. Presumably the government spin will be "Gray finds govt did nothing wrong" when the first part is published. I mean, they can't possibly think we're that stupid...
Comments
@JohnRentoul
Michael Ellis, speaking for govt, says: “I would urge the House to wait for the police to complete that work”
12:40 pm · 25 Jan 2022·Twitter for iPhone
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1485955689902231554
There we go... kick into the long grass
https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1485956620223975432
Exactly who set in place the fast track PPE route to allow non-incorporated companies owned by Tories to bid without tender for £107m contracts they had no ability to fulfil? And then chose not to bother asking for the money back?
Johnson is complicit in the open corruption of PPE contracts. He is hardly the right person to start an investigation. He should be *the subject* of the investigation
This has caused Cabinet incredulity, I understand.
No10 says it was too “sensitive” to share with cabinet
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1485956847597236227
"Oh, they'll have the same."
📈8pt lead for Labour
🌳Con 32 (-)
🌹Lab 40 (-1)
🔶LDM 11 (-)
🌍Grn 4 (-)
🎗️SNP (-)
◻️Other (-)
2,232 UK adults 21-23 Jan
(Changes from 14-16 Jan) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1485958306137092097/photo/1
From my perspective (as a Tory MP) the Met investigation means that this stink is going to carry on for months, if not longer. I was hoping that Sue Gray would draw a line under it, one way or another. But no. I'm already sick of it, it will mean we get slaughtered in the May elections, and even if the story fades from the press it won't fade from the public's mindset. They've already made their mind up: Partygate was bad and Boris is neither to be trusted nor believed.
So my letter's going in today.
https://twitter.com/Dr_D_Robertson?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
Pro-lockdown but then questions the equity of mandatory vaccines for NHS staff on the basis that only 6/10 black people have had their second jab compared with 9/10 white people.
Anybody else surprised that the stabbing to death of a woman followed by the running over of her murderer by a car, allegedly in an attempt to save her, has received so little attention? Is this effing normal?
https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60088244?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA
https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1485958545568944131
No.10 "I'm not going to pass judgement on that."
Q: "Did the PM regularly meet his interior designer at 2pm on a work day at the height of a pandemic?"
No.10: "I'm not aware who Lulu Lytle was there to meet"
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1485958854236114944
Westminster voting intention:
LAB: 40% (-1)
CON: 32% (-)
LDEM: 11% (-)
GRN: 4% (-)
via @SavantaComRes, 21 - 23 Jan
Chgs. w/ 16 Jan
Oh.
It doesn’t have to be severe for it to cause a lot of problems. If Omicron OMG is totally outpacing Omicron Classic then Omicron OMG must be fucking incredibly transmissible, or very evasive of immunity.
So it will infect everyone. Again. That means an awful lot of people getting really quite sick all over again. Even if they don’t go to hospital (as you say)
Tho it is worth noting that Danish hospitalisations are soaring:
https://twitter.com/mediccoin/status/1484879469215195137?s=21
More reassuringly, their ICU levels are low and stable, however there is some dispute as to how indicative this is, as Denmark has a different policy on ICUs than most
Also a frown-inducing rise in younger people with BA2:
“Omicron, BA2, Denmark: Admissions in the babies soaring in Denmark: as high as the 80+ age group! record highs by what looks like as much as 40x?”
https://twitter.com/enemyinastate/status/1485779630980227075?s=21
Note, I say FROWN not SCREAM. I am not trying to scare the flakier PBers. But this is a cause for some modest concern
Will be interesting when the full details emerge as it just looks bizarre at present. Tragic for all those involved, of course.
Edit: even down to the eyewitness quote of a "girl being attacked by a gentleman", somewhat oxymoronic, that.
Labour 304, Conservatives 251, LDs 19
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=32&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=2&Green=3&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
On this occasion nothing to do with Boris
Soon gym, then gin, however!
She's probably going to say she was waitressing.
The other was Adolf Hitler.
Anecdote from a colleague. His daughter had delta back in November - mildy ill, but pre pandemic would not have been off school (sore throat). Tested positive last week (assumed omicron). NO SYMPTOMS. Can you think of another situation where someone in effectively perfect health is locked at home for 5 days? Its madness.
Omicron 2 will be the same.
Look at our MV beds. Declining, and in fact showed no spike from omicron at all.
Chill, enjoy your knapping in the sun, and stop trying to stir up people about covid...
In general terms, interviews under caution are for suspects, and those not under caution are for witnesses. In that case, Blair was fairly clearly between those two positions. It'd be ludicrous to say he was simply someone who was in the same building at the time as there was a benefit to him as Labour leader if donations were obtained from people wanting honours. But there wasn't really the direct evidence of personal involvement (whether because he wasn't or was bloody careful in terms of emails etc to keep it all at arm's length) and Downing Street would have argued strongly that there shouldn't be the implication (and Police didn't have the basis to say) that Blair was under suspicion himself.
Johnson is in a different situation in that there is no argument he was at several relevant events and the potential offences include attending, not merely organising, events in breach of the rules in place. So while any offences are less serious than cash for peerages in terms of legal consequences, it's clearer that he's a suspect in the case of some events at Downing Street, and not merely a witness.
Sam Coates Sky
@SamCoatesSky
Am told by sources the Met Police want the whole Sue Gray report published - there is surprise that government has decided it won’t be
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60125408
Maybe the press know that the perpetrator knew the victim, but even so, it should be getting more attention than it is.
The question as per the above: "Did the PM regularly meet his interior designer at 2pm on a work day at the height of a pandemic?" was supposed to be a killer blow but just highlights after a moment's thought (try it sometime) that speaking to your client about XXX is likely to have been a perfectly legitimate activity.
It's sexist of the questioner (though of course not you, Chris) to see it all from the man's perspective.
Edit: although the "waitressing" comment does show a worrying tendency on your part.
Cabinet Office: We can't possibly release the report as it would prejudice the ongoing police investigation
Police: No it really won't. And it would be beneficial if it was released in full as it would aid our investigation by flushing out all of these issues
Minister: Which is why we can't possibly release the report as it would prejudice the ongoing police investigation
If the Gray report has to be published at the Met's request, it contains damning stuff as we already know and then the Met go at it this is a disaster for Team Accused. And they can't possibly hide behind "we can't release this because police" when the police are asking them to release it.
https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1485962642145619974
It is also not unreasonable to get different outcomes particularly as you will have different levels of proof. Gray could come up with a damning report without there being any successful criminal case. I presume for instance that criminal and civil cases can happen in parallel or is that not the case?
If you've got a body, a weapon (the car) and a person controlling the weapon (the driver) that's just standard. It's sensible from the perspective of the driver that they are legally represented and, in the interview, have all the protections afforded to a suspect. The fact that, on the face of it, they may well have a good case that they have not committed an offence doesn't actually change that.
I recall some years ago, near where I lived at the time, a mentally ill neighbour broke into a family's home and attacked the people there. The attacker himself was stabbed to death by the father of the household. It was all deeply tragic and I believe the father was very sympathetically treated by Police. But, formally, there was an arrest, interview under caution, and release without charge.
My saying “this is cause for some modest concern” is really not wild scare-mongering. I am just stating the facts, meagre as they are
We have a new variant (or sub variant - opinions differ). It seems to have some troubling properties - super transmissible, even more infectious than Original Omicron, BUT there are also lots of hopeful signs that it is no worse than Omicron, and will just fade into the general run of Covid, as it slowly becomes endemic. However this variant may make that progression bumpier than we hoped
That Parisian article gets it about right. Absolutely no need to panic yet, at all. But concerned vigilance? Yes
Your attitude seems to be: we just ignore any Covid developments now, and then it will completely go away. Recent history tells us this is not sensible
Some suspicion this morning at "have the Met done Boris a favour". Its the opposite. Roused from their position of "its all a bit old news" with realisation of the reputational damage, they appear to be going for it. Listening to Dick's statements earlier they simply cannot now treat the accused any differently to any other people they nicked for doing the same.
So instead of favours its the opposite. They aren't going to give an inch of cover to the spinner trying to pretend that nothing can now be released or even discussed whilst the met do their jobs.
Won't be long before HY is joining the "defund the police" demands from nobbers like Fabricant and the rest of the lickspittle sycophant wing of the Tory party.
The UQ indicated support for Boris from across the conservative benches and he is now live speaking on Ukraine in the house
Doesn't sound like it does it?
An early Guardian report - quoting eye-witnesses - said the knife-wielder was young and black and the woman was the same age - 20s - and white. The driver was a bit older
In more recent reports all references to ethnicity have gone and the man and woman are in their 40s?! Quite odd
But of course eye-witness accounts are notoriously various
(I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that you think I might have been influenced in that conclusion by my bet at 44/1 on Raab Next PM).
Were then, are now.
Boris is going nowhere.
Maybe more will come out?
This is very amusing if Cressida Dick is countering it.
What Downing Street actually mean is not that Sue Gray reporting would prejudice the investigation but that it would make it harder for Johnson (and others) to run certain lines of defence (e.g. harder in practice to say "well, prove I was there on the evening of the 12th" when Sue Gray has said "on the evening of the 12th...") So it's to protect Johnson personally, not to protect the integrity of a Police investigation.
It's a misconception that as soon as Police investigate a crime, nobody can say anything about it. Just look at how widely reported unsolved cases are. Many can recall Dr Shipman himself choosing to give a public statement when he was under investigation and had been arrested. Things change when charges are laid, but there's absolutely no "Police are looking into this so nobody can say anything" rule.
I am fine with being sensible, but I think the term 'variant of interest' is correct. I do not expect anything much to come of it for the reasons above - we have now reached a very good point with protection against serious consequences from covid, and this WILL apply to BA2. The role of the boosters was mainly about trying to reduce the number of infections, not because they would all need ICU etc, but to avoid the disruption that we have seen with people forced to be off work. The underlying protections were still good for most. They still are.
Edit - and to add - whenever I call someone to tell them I can't do something because I've got covid I get the sense they don't believe me. Covid has obviously become the excuse of choice for liars and skivers.
MPs claiming it isn't coming up and is all Westminster bubble are lying. It really is as simple as it seems.