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Lords a-leaping – politicalbetting.com

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Cyclefree said:

    The issue isn't protest. Or at least it shouldn't be. The issue ought to be disruption. We can all be high-minded about rights to free expression and assembly but extinction rebellion and insulate Britain DID cause major disruption i.e harm. People have a right to be angry about that. The Supreme Court might have exploded a legal grenade with its verdict that a certain level of disruption had to be tolerated in a free society. Well what does that mean exactly?

    Many liberty lovers would have applauded that but what if the consequence is the government introducing more draconian laws as a counter measure? Activists judges might actually be their own worst enemy in this. Of course I don't have any confidence in Patel who seems like a minister playing to the gallery in search of favourable tabloid headlines. But one has to understand why she has found such fertile territory.

    We already have plenty of laws to deal with disruption and public order offences.
    I remember an interesting situation.

    Way back in the 80s, the police and intelligence services used their infiltration of the NI terrorist groups and various criminal gangs to cultivate "Supergrasses" - people who who would give evidence against the really big fish in open court. Basically the American system - "You are looking at life. What have you got to say to help yourself".

    A bunch of noble, brilliant QCs fought desperately against such a terrible system. They managed to get it stuck down with rulings that the evidence was inadmissible.

    So the police, instead of catching armed robbers *before* their "jobs", lay in wait for them. And shot them dead.

    The Intelligence services did the same to the IRA - it was called "shoot to kill'.

    The noble, brilliant QCs complained about that, IIRC.

    But they never seemed to admit that there was a connection to their actions.

    The problem with constructing a constitution by legal/judicial activism* is Democracy.

    We have had centuries of telling people that voting is the ultimate power, that their elected representatives in Parliament can do *anything*.

    Something will have to give.....

    *The creation, in effect, of new law, via judicial judgement, of new meanings in old laws
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stakeknife-Britains-Secret-Agents-Ireland/dp/0862788439

    Is a very good book which it sounds like you have read (or perhaps you wrote it...)

    Explains a lot also about 14 Int and FRU whatever the hell they were.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Huge expectation about what today holds but important to remember only one man - Sir Graham Brady - knows how many letters are in.

    Rebels excitable, but possible they are talking up prospects / relying on colleagues who are bluffing.

    Either way today’s PMQs is one to watch.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1483706768001839105

    It will be interesting to see if the PB Tories "big up" Boris afterwards! "I thought he did rather well. Starmer was rubbish..."
    PB Tories are a pale shadow of their former selves nowadays; the days when PB Tories bestrode this forum like colossi of political commentary are over ;)
    Tories reinvent themselves, they now bestride it like colossi of penetrating non-aligned a-plague-on-all-their-houses commentary. Normal service to resume shortly.
  • Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wowsers.

    Boris Johnson partygate crisis: Poll gives Labour 32-point lead in London

    Exclusive: Eight Tory MPs could lose their seats in London if bombshell poll is replicated at next General Election


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/yougov-poll-labour-lead-london-boris-johnson-party-downing-st-plan-b-b977489.html

    Not that surprising given London, especially Inner London, was Remain central. The only reason most Tory MPs in Remain seats in London in 2019 held their seats was to keep out Corbyn, wealthy Remainers see Starmer as much less of a threat.

    Tories doing a bit better in Outer London though were a few areas like Hillingdon, Bexley and Havering voted Leave on 25% than Inner London, where every borough voted Remain and the Tories are on just 18%. That suggests the Tories could not only lose Wandsworth and Barnet in May but even lose Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea on a really bad night
    Last Starmer interview I read said that there was no question of Rejoining in his mind. We were OUT, end of.

    What that suggests is that, in his mind, apart from a few committed Europeans like myself banging on about it, he doesn't expect the EU to be an issue at the next, and indeed next but one election.

    So whether an area was Leave or Remain in 2016 will be immaterial. The issue will be the Governments overall competence.
    Nope. Brexit is still a major division, the latest Yougov has 53% of Remainers backing Labour and just 12% backing the Tories. However 56% of Leavers still back the Tories even under Boris wth just 20% backing Labour.

    Starmer would also of course at least take the UK back into a Customs Union with the EU unlike the Tories

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/01/18/voting-intention-con-31-lab-39-13-14-jan
    This may be a fallacy but I'm genuinely not sure if you're able to comprehend why.

    If you divided the country along a range of political and ethical issues you would find that the labels attached to 'Remain' and 'Leave' could equally be applied to other stances, beliefs and traits.

    It takes someone fixated on Brexit, which most of us have moved on from, to assume that the categories still apply. In fact, if you poll people on what currently matters to them in their everyday lives, the EU doesn't even feature in the top 20.

    It suits me fine if you're typical of other tories of your caste. It means that you'll completely miss the point and be out of power for a generation.
    On a point of order, @HYUFD is not a typical tory, indeed I believe he is unique as in all my years associated with the conservative party (60) I have never come across anyone like him
  • Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    Most people aren't SIM only, and of the MNOs EE and Three don't split the airtime and handset portions, Vodafone have just introduced the split that O2 have done for years.

    Of the MVNOs only Tesco Mobile and Sky split the bill between airtime and handset, those who have the handset split, the inflation plus 3.9% increase every year only applies to the airtime portion.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Defence minister James Heappey is one of the govt's best media perfomers but even he is struggling with @BorisJohnson's case today.
    Tells @BBCr4today the PM would have had the No10 drinks event in his diary, and "He would have been briefed on what he was going to, as he went"

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1483720496541745154
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wowsers.

    Boris Johnson partygate crisis: Poll gives Labour 32-point lead in London

    Exclusive: Eight Tory MPs could lose their seats in London if bombshell poll is replicated at next General Election


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/yougov-poll-labour-lead-london-boris-johnson-party-downing-st-plan-b-b977489.html

    Not that surprising given London, especially Inner London, was Remain central. The only reason most Tory MPs in Remain seats in London in 2019 held their seats was to keep out Corbyn, wealthy Remainers see Starmer as much less of a threat.

    Tories doing a bit better in Outer London though were a few areas like Hillingdon, Bexley and Havering voted Leave on 25% than Inner London, where every borough voted Remain and the Tories are on just 18%. That suggests the Tories could not only lose Wandsworth and Barnet in May but even lose Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea on a really bad night
    Last Starmer interview I read said that there was no question of Rejoining in his mind. We were OUT, end of.

    What that suggests is that, in his mind, apart from a few committed Europeans like myself banging on about it, he doesn't expect the EU to be an issue at the next, and indeed next but one election.

    So whether an area was Leave or Remain in 2016 will be immaterial. The issue will be the Governments overall competence.
    Nope. Brexit is still a major division, the latest Yougov has 53% of Remainers backing Labour and just 12% backing the Tories. However 56% of Leavers still back the Tories even under Boris wth just 20% backing Labour.

    Starmer would also of course at least take the UK back into a Customs Union with the EU unlike the Tories

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/01/18/voting-intention-con-31-lab-39-13-14-jan
    This may be a fallacy but I'm genuinely not sure if you're able to comprehend why.

    If you divided the country along a range of political and ethical issues you would find that the labels attached to 'Remain' and 'Leave' could equally be applied to other stances, beliefs and traits.

    It takes someone fixated on Brexit, which most of us have moved on from, to assume that the categories still apply. In fact, if you poll people on what currently matters to them in their everyday lives, the EU doesn't even feature in the top 20.

    It suits me fine if you're typical of other tories of your caste. It means that you'll completely miss the point and be out of power for a generation.
    The point then surely is that cultural conservative Leavers, many in Labour working class areas, who used to vote Labour went Conservative in 2017 and 2019 and many of them will now stick to voting Conservative regardless.

    Cultural liberal Remainers, some of whom might have voted for Cameron, are now almost universally backing Starmer or the LDs,

    That is now the big divide and the Tories are unlikely to win back any of the latter for a generation, so must ensure they keep the former, certainly from going to a 3rd party like RefUK
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Jonathan said:

    Curious challenge for Starmer today. How should he play it? Boris will come out swinging, desperately looking for a win. A dead, forward defensive shot, bat might be the right thing to do. Somber questions about Ukraine, deaths and the detail about the cost of living, anything to deny Boris oxygen. Finish one or two short to avoid Boris getting his sound bites in?

    If I were Starmer I would try and craft a “when did you last beat your wife” type question on Parties and then switch the rest of the questions to really detailed technical questions re inflation.

    The first question gets Boris tied up with excuses and maybe hangs himself re parties. By then changing to really detailed technical questions re inflation it should unbalance Boris as I imagine he would be prepped for Parties but then useless at detail re inflation/economy etc and show that not only is he in a mess with Parties but also doesn’t have a clue about technical detail that’s crucial to most of the country - so shifty AND useless.

    That’s presuming Starmer wants him gone….
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited January 2022

    Sandpit said:

    So that most people's mobile phone and broadband & landline bills going up around 10% in March/April.

    Which, for most of the population, is a couple of quid. Just because it’s your own largest monthly expenditure, doesn’t mean that everyone faces the same issue.
    Have you seen the prices here?

    iPhone 13 Pro 256GB on EE with 40 GB a month is £69 a month = Near £7 increase

    That's not even the top end iPhone.

    Same with broadband.

    So it really isn't a couple of quid increase for most people.

    The average monthly cost for the most popular smartphones in 2018 was £39.60 but in 2021, this increased to £47.20 on average per month. So we're looking at a £5 for mobiles and £8 for broadband.

    Think for hardworking families that have several kids, all with smart phones.

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-9732797/Popular-mobile-phones-cost-200-2018-contract-payments-increasing-8-month.htm
    Let them use Poco phones (h/t always to OGH).

    They are excellent I am looking at mine right this minute.

    Most up to date, cutting edge one: three or four hundred pounds.

    Go on...make the leap from i...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    This F...ing Tory Party are completely shameless. On Newsnight ... 'He didn't know it was against the rules that he himself had announced that week!!' These shameless sycophants are not even funny anymore

    The ones that bother me are the ones that claim to have only just noticed that Boris is unfit to be prime minister. He has always been dodgy and done a lot of harm.

    The problem we have is that so far this century, each PM has been worse than the last. Goodness knows who comes next.
    Funny you should say that.

    ‘Boris Johnson's replacement will likely be worse’

    In the meantime, Johnson will attempt to save his skin with a raft of right-wing populist policies designed to appeal to the pro-Brexit readers of the frothing Mail and Express who make up the Conservatives' core support. Just as happened with Brexit, everyone in the UK will have to suffer the consequences of the Conservatives acting as though the interests of the state are subordinate to the interests of the Conservative party, which is precisely what passes for a constitution in the UK allows them to do.

    We are in for further restrictions on the right to protest, the continuing demonisation of migrants and asylum seekers as convenient scapegoats, and yet more attacks upon any remaining institutions in the UK which are capable of restraining the wilder excesses of the Conservatives. The next Tory leader is likely to be even worse, he or she will embrace a full-throated Thatcherism, and emboldened by a surge in public support in England during their honeymoon period, will seek a snap election which could entrench Tory rule for decades to come.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/19857127.real-scottish-politics-boris-johnsons-replacement-will-likely-worse/

    There’s a lot of wild extrapolation in there. Particularly the “surge in public support in England” and “snap election” bit. Doesn’t seem quite right.
    CON MAJ is just 2/1. Perfectly feasible. If it hits 3/1 a lot of people will be eager buyers.
    “If”. Feasible, yes. But a “feasible” majority at the next GE and a likely snap election to “entrench Tory rule for decades come” are not remotely the same thing.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Looks like outdoor winter sports will be pretty much non-existent by the end of this century. Swedish meteorological research shows that most Scandinavian resorts, training facilities and competition venues will be pretty much unusable by 2100.

    The Alps and Scotland can forget it.

    We'll have vineyards in Scotland instead.
    We've had them in Roman times in the south, hence e.g. 'Vine Street'.

    The Scottish resorts have had great seasons recently because of fronts from the north-west leaving Scotland on the north side of the Polar Front Jet. This actually produces great winter conditions in the Scottish Highlands with considerable snowfall.

    This season hasn't been so great because with this high pressure stuck over southern Britain, the jet is running north of the UK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nadine, raging against the dying of the light...

    Exclusive:

    Nadine Dorries hits out at 'disloyal' plotters

    'The people who are doing this are being disloyal to PM, the party, their constituents and to the wider country

    'The only reason their constituents voted for them is because Boris Johnson was standing as PM'
    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483566263435677700/photo/1

    'Removing Boris Johnson will give us one thing: Keir Starmer as Prime Minister' says Nadine
    Why don't you just resign as a conservative as you are so full of negatively the party would not miss you and Dorries is a disaster and needs sending to the back benches

    And I can take your place as I rejoin as Boris leaves
    I don't hate the Tory leader and PM unlike you.

    I do not hate Boris but then I cannot support his behaviour over Paterson, wallpapergate and partygate, and the trashing of the conservative brand

    You seem to be happy to predict years in opposition for the party so why not resign as you can hardly promote the party
    I am always loyal to the party, even in 2001 when you were happily voting Labour
    You voted for Plaid and you simply could not canvass for the party with a new leader in view of your statements
    Utter rubbish, you have spent the last few weeks trashing the party and its leader.

    Plenty of Tories were loyal to Thatcher to the end in 1990, they still canvassed for Major in 1992
    It is Boris Johnson and his pals who have trashed the Conservative Party, not Big_G_NorthWales. You are just lashing out at imagined enemies. Quite sad to witness.
    No, it is Dominic Cummings. Who more likely than not will still usher in a decade or more of Labour rule, not the decade of Sunak and Gove rule he wants
    Er… it was the Conservative Party who employed Dominic Cummings. You cannot purchase the services of a witch doctor and then blame the ensuing bùrach on said witch doctor.

    Moral of tale: avoid sinister pedlars of dreams.
    Subject of tale: Brexit.
    It was Boris and Brexit which was the only reason the Tories got their first landslide majority in 2019 since Thatcher's in 1987
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    DougSeal said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    This F...ing Tory Party are completely shameless. On Newsnight ... 'He didn't know it was against the rules that he himself had announced that week!!' These shameless sycophants are not even funny anymore

    The ones that bother me are the ones that claim to have only just noticed that Boris is unfit to be prime minister. He has always been dodgy and done a lot of harm.

    The problem we have is that so far this century, each PM has been worse than the last. Goodness knows who comes next.
    Funny you should say that.

    ‘Boris Johnson's replacement will likely be worse’

    In the meantime, Johnson will attempt to save his skin with a raft of right-wing populist policies designed to appeal to the pro-Brexit readers of the frothing Mail and Express who make up the Conservatives' core support. Just as happened with Brexit, everyone in the UK will have to suffer the consequences of the Conservatives acting as though the interests of the state are subordinate to the interests of the Conservative party, which is precisely what passes for a constitution in the UK allows them to do.

    We are in for further restrictions on the right to protest, the continuing demonisation of migrants and asylum seekers as convenient scapegoats, and yet more attacks upon any remaining institutions in the UK which are capable of restraining the wilder excesses of the Conservatives. The next Tory leader is likely to be even worse, he or she will embrace a full-throated Thatcherism, and emboldened by a surge in public support in England during their honeymoon period, will seek a snap election which could entrench Tory rule for decades to come.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/19857127.real-scottish-politics-boris-johnsons-replacement-will-likely-worse/

    There’s a lot of wild extrapolation in there. Particularly the “surge in public support in England” and “snap election” bit. Doesn’t seem quite right.
    CON MAJ is just 2/1. Perfectly feasible. If it hits 3/1 a lot of people will be eager buyers.
    On Betfair a Tory majority government is the favourite at 15/8 according to Oddschecker. Lab minority look value at 3/1.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Looks like outdoor winter sports will be pretty much non-existent by the end of this century. Swedish meteorological research shows that most Scandinavian resorts, training facilities and competition venues will be pretty much unusable by 2100.

    The Alps and Scotland can forget it.

    Alps gone by 2050 apparently, Scotland has been fucked since about 1990

    I know people my age always perceive the world going to hell in a handcraft but this time it really is
    Disagree. Scotland has had some tremendous winters in recent years, but when the time comes for current infrastructure (lifts etc) to be replaced, it is profoundly unlikely that the finance boffins will judge it to be a wise use of capital.

    It was fun while it lasted. All my children and my sister’s children are great skiers, but I suspect that the next generation are going to have to get there kicks elsewhere, eg windsurfing.
    But that time has come and gone, I think the rail thingy at Aviemore/Cairngorm was decommissioned decades ago, no?

    Reliable cold and snow is the key.
  • Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nadine, raging against the dying of the light...

    Exclusive:

    Nadine Dorries hits out at 'disloyal' plotters

    'The people who are doing this are being disloyal to PM, the party, their constituents and to the wider country

    'The only reason their constituents voted for them is because Boris Johnson was standing as PM'
    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483566263435677700/photo/1

    'Removing Boris Johnson will give us one thing: Keir Starmer as Prime Minister' says Nadine
    Why don't you just resign as a conservative as you are so full of negatively the party would not miss you and Dorries is a disaster and needs sending to the back benches

    And I can take your place as I rejoin as Boris leaves
    I don't hate the Tory leader and PM unlike you.

    I do not hate Boris but then I cannot support his behaviour over Paterson, wallpapergate and partygate, and the trashing of the conservative brand

    You seem to be happy to predict years in opposition for the party so why not resign as you can hardly promote the party
    I am always loyal to the party, even in 2001 when you were happily voting Labour
    You voted for Plaid and you simply could not canvass for the party with a new leader in view of your statements
    Utter rubbish, you have spent the last few weeks trashing the party and its leader.

    Plenty of Tories were loyal to Thatcher to the end in 1990, they still canvassed for Major in 1992
    It is Boris Johnson and his pals who have trashed the Conservative Party, not Big_G_NorthWales. You are just lashing out at imagined enemies. Quite sad to witness.
    No, it is Dominic Cummings. Who more likely than not will still usher in a decade or more of Labour rule, not the decade of Sunak and Gove rule he wants
    Cummings is a mere catalyst.
    Johnson is both problem and cause.
    Exactly
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    I still think the strangest thing about Johnson is the fact that so many people insisted he was a clever man pretending to be a stupid man, rather than a stupid man pretending to be a clever man pretending to be a stupid man.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    This F...ing Tory Party are completely shameless. On Newsnight ... 'He didn't know it was against the rules that he himself had announced that week!!' These shameless sycophants are not even funny anymore

    The ones that bother me are the ones that claim to have only just noticed that Boris is unfit to be prime minister. He has always been dodgy and done a lot of harm.

    The problem we have is that so far this century, each PM has been worse than the last. Goodness knows who comes next.
    Funny you should say that.

    ‘Boris Johnson's replacement will likely be worse’

    In the meantime, Johnson will attempt to save his skin with a raft of right-wing populist policies designed to appeal to the pro-Brexit readers of the frothing Mail and Express who make up the Conservatives' core support. Just as happened with Brexit, everyone in the UK will have to suffer the consequences of the Conservatives acting as though the interests of the state are subordinate to the interests of the Conservative party, which is precisely what passes for a constitution in the UK allows them to do.

    We are in for further restrictions on the right to protest, the continuing demonisation of migrants and asylum seekers as convenient scapegoats, and yet more attacks upon any remaining institutions in the UK which are capable of restraining the wilder excesses of the Conservatives. The next Tory leader is likely to be even worse, he or she will embrace a full-throated Thatcherism, and emboldened by a surge in public support in England during their honeymoon period, will seek a snap election which could entrench Tory rule for decades to come.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/19857127.real-scottish-politics-boris-johnsons-replacement-will-likely-worse/

    There’s a lot of wild extrapolation in there. Particularly the “surge in public support in England” and “snap election” bit. Doesn’t seem quite right.
    CON MAJ is just 2/1. Perfectly feasible. If it hits 3/1 a lot of people will be eager buyers.
    “If”. Feasible, yes. But a “feasible” majority at the next GE and a likely snap election to “entrench Tory rule for decades come” are not remotely the same thing.
    Any Tory leader who called a snap general election now with a majority of 80 could not be forgiven.

    Even May had the excuse she only had a tiny majority and polls put her clearly ahead not behind
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nadine, raging against the dying of the light...

    Exclusive:

    Nadine Dorries hits out at 'disloyal' plotters

    'The people who are doing this are being disloyal to PM, the party, their constituents and to the wider country

    'The only reason their constituents voted for them is because Boris Johnson was standing as PM'
    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483566263435677700/photo/1

    'Removing Boris Johnson will give us one thing: Keir Starmer as Prime Minister' says Nadine
    Why don't you just resign as a conservative as you are so full of negatively the party would not miss you and Dorries is a disaster and needs sending to the back benches

    And I can take your place as I rejoin as Boris leaves
    I don't hate the Tory leader and PM unlike you.

    I do not hate Boris but then I cannot support his behaviour over Paterson, wallpapergate and partygate, and the trashing of the conservative brand

    You seem to be happy to predict years in opposition for the party so why not resign as you can hardly promote the party
    I am always loyal to the party, even in 2001 when you were happily voting Labour
    You voted for Plaid and you simply could not canvass for the party with a new leader in view of your statements
    Utter rubbish, you have spent the last few weeks trashing the party and its leader.

    Plenty of Tories were loyal to Thatcher to the end in 1990, they still canvassed for Major in 1992
    It is Boris Johnson and his pals who have trashed the Conservative Party, not Big_G_NorthWales. You are just lashing out at imagined enemies. Quite sad to witness.
    No, it is Dominic Cummings. Who more likely than not will still usher in a decade or more of Labour rule, not the decade of Sunak and Gove rule he wants
    Er… it was the Conservative Party who employed Dominic Cummings. You cannot purchase the services of a witch doctor and then blame the ensuing bùrach on said witch doctor.

    Moral of tale: avoid sinister pedlars of dreams.
    Subject of tale: Brexit.
    It was Boris and Brexit which was the only reason the Tories got their first landslide majority in 2019 since Thatcher's in 1987
    No absolutely untrue. Without Dominic Cummings Boris Johnson never would have come up with the Red Wall tactic of his own accord. He's far too inept.

    And Brexit was Cummings' hand as well.

    Boris was a mouthpiece for a much cleverer political operator.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Huge expectation about what today holds but important to remember only one man - Sir Graham Brady - knows how many letters are in.

    Rebels excitable, but possible they are talking up prospects / relying on colleagues who are bluffing.

    Either way today’s PMQs is one to watch.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1483706768001839105

    It will be interesting to see if the PB Tories "big up" Boris afterwards! "I thought he did rather well. Starmer was rubbish..."
    PB Tories are a pale shadow of their former selves nowadays; the days when PB Tories bestrode this forum like colossi of political commentary are over ;)
    Tories reinvent themselves, they now bestride it like colossi of penetrating non-aligned a-plague-on-all-their-houses commentary. Normal service to resume shortly.
    Somewhere in the distance, a faint light, just a glimpse, but yes there's something out there is our old party back. If we have to wait for Truss et al to wear themselves out so be it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited January 2022
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nadine, raging against the dying of the light...

    Exclusive:

    Nadine Dorries hits out at 'disloyal' plotters

    'The people who are doing this are being disloyal to PM, the party, their constituents and to the wider country

    'The only reason their constituents voted for them is because Boris Johnson was standing as PM'
    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483566263435677700/photo/1

    'Removing Boris Johnson will give us one thing: Keir Starmer as Prime Minister' says Nadine
    Why don't you just resign as a conservative as you are so full of negatively the party would not miss you and Dorries is a disaster and needs sending to the back benches

    And I can take your place as I rejoin as Boris leaves
    I don't hate the Tory leader and PM unlike you.

    I do not hate Boris but then I cannot support his behaviour over Paterson, wallpapergate and partygate, and the trashing of the conservative brand

    You seem to be happy to predict years in opposition for the party so why not resign as you can hardly promote the party
    I am always loyal to the party, even in 2001 when you were happily voting Labour
    You voted for Plaid and you simply could not canvass for the party with a new leader in view of your statements
    Utter rubbish, you have spent the last few weeks trashing the party and its leader.

    Plenty of Tories were loyal to Thatcher to the end in 1990, they still canvassed for Major in 1992
    It is Boris Johnson and his pals who have trashed the Conservative Party, not Big_G_NorthWales. You are just lashing out at imagined enemies. Quite sad to witness.
    No, it is Dominic Cummings. Who more likely than not will still usher in a decade or more of Labour rule, not the decade of Sunak and Gove rule he wants
    Er… it was the Conservative Party who employed Dominic Cummings. You cannot purchase the services of a witch doctor and then blame the ensuing bùrach on said witch doctor.

    Moral of tale: avoid sinister pedlars of dreams.
    Subject of tale: Brexit.
    It was Boris and Brexit which was the only reason the Tories got their first landslide majority in 2019 since Thatcher's in 1987
    No absolutely untrue. Without Dominic Cummings Boris Johnson never would have come up with the Red Wall tactic of his own accord. He's far too inept.

    And Brexit was Cummings' hand as well.

    Boris was a mouthpiece for a much cleverer political operator.
    Wrong, absolutely true.

    Without Boris Cummings would not have got Leave to 52% and the RedWall would never have voted Tory in 2019 either.

    The idea Cummings would have won the redwall with Gove as leader not Boris is laughable!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    GENERAL PB TIP ON VANILLA

    If you mention someone on vanilla then for some reason there is a paragraph break next. To avoid this you need to start a paragraph after that one.

    For example @HYUFD is not a proper Tory.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    For example @HYUFD is not a proper Tory.

    .
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    Yeah it's gaming and HD movies that cost. Work is text and spreadsheets which use next to nothing
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wowsers.

    Boris Johnson partygate crisis: Poll gives Labour 32-point lead in London

    Exclusive: Eight Tory MPs could lose their seats in London if bombshell poll is replicated at next General Election


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/yougov-poll-labour-lead-london-boris-johnson-party-downing-st-plan-b-b977489.html

    Not that surprising given London, especially Inner London, was Remain central. The only reason most Tory MPs in Remain seats in London in 2019 held their seats was to keep out Corbyn, wealthy Remainers see Starmer as much less of a threat.

    Tories doing a bit better in Outer London though were a few areas like Hillingdon, Bexley and Havering voted Leave on 25% than Inner London, where every borough voted Remain and the Tories are on just 18%. That suggests the Tories could not only lose Wandsworth and Barnet in May but even lose Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea on a really bad night
    Last Starmer interview I read said that there was no question of Rejoining in his mind. We were OUT, end of.

    What that suggests is that, in his mind, apart from a few committed Europeans like myself banging on about it, he doesn't expect the EU to be an issue at the next, and indeed next but one election.

    So whether an area was Leave or Remain in 2016 will be immaterial. The issue will be the Governments overall competence.
    Nope. Brexit is still a major division, the latest Yougov has 53% of Remainers backing Labour and just 12% backing the Tories. However 56% of Leavers still back the Tories even under Boris wth just 20% backing Labour.

    Starmer would also of course at least take the UK back into a Customs Union with the EU unlike the Tories

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/01/18/voting-intention-con-31-lab-39-13-14-jan
    This may be a fallacy but I'm genuinely not sure if you're able to comprehend why.

    If you divided the country along a range of political and ethical issues you would find that the labels attached to 'Remain' and 'Leave' could equally be applied to other stances, beliefs and traits.

    It takes someone fixated on Brexit, which most of us have moved on from, to assume that the categories still apply. In fact, if you poll people on what currently matters to them in their everyday lives, the EU doesn't even feature in the top 20.

    It suits me fine if you're typical of other tories of your caste. It means that you'll completely miss the point and be out of power for a generation.
    On a point of order, @HYUFD is not a typical tory, indeed I believe he is unique as in all my years associated with the conservative party (60) I have never come across anyone like him
    Councillor Delyth Miles, the National Chair of something or other within the Conservative Party was on TV last night, can't remember on what, and she was singing off HY's hymnsheet, claiming 60% plus of Party members still love Johnson. HY is very much not alone.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited January 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    So that most people's mobile phone and broadband & landline bills going up around 10% in March/April.

    Which, for most of the population, is a couple of quid. Just because it’s your own largest monthly expenditure, doesn’t mean that everyone faces the same issue.
    Have you seen the prices here?

    iPhone 13 Pro 256GB on EE with 40 GB a month is £69 a month = Near £7 increase

    That's not even the top end iPhone.

    Same with broadband.

    So it really isn't a couple of quid increase for most people.

    The average monthly cost for the most popular smartphones in 2018 was £39.60 but in 2021, this increased to £47.20 on average per month. So we're looking at a £5 for mobiles and £8 for broadband.

    Think for hardworking families that have several kids, all with smart phones.

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-9732797/Popular-mobile-phones-cost-200-2018-contract-payments-increasing-8-month.htm
    Let them use Poco phones (h/t always to OGH).

    They are excellent I am looking at mine right this minute.

    Most up to date, cutting edge one: three or four hundred pounds.

    Go on...make the leap from i...
    My bold prediction, Chinese phones will be banned in the UK and most of the West within the next few years.

    I know of a few banks who are looking at pulling their apps from all Chinese phones.

    To give Boris Johnson some credit he absolutely did the right thing banning Huawei from our mobile and broadband infrastructure.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Chris said:

    I still think the strangest thing about Johnson is the fact that so many people insisted he was a clever man pretending to be a stupid man, rather than a stupid man pretending to be a clever man pretending to be a stupid man.

    That surely is the strangest thing about the people who insisted he was a clever man pretending to be a stupid man, not the strangest thing about Johnson.

    There is nothing particularly strange about Johnson. He is and always was wholly unfit to be Prime Minister, is not a details man, delegates, which could be a good thing but at some point the captain has to have a vague idea of where the ship is going, and is only interested in what will play well for and benefit himself.

    Solipsistic twat but not particularly strange.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    I rarely get over 1GB/month, and that's only if I watch YouTube whilst out and about. It just shows how people can have very different use cases for their devices

    A friends gf (now ex...) got through over £100 of texts per month in the early 2000s. Some months it was much more.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    Applicant said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    This F...ing Tory Party are completely shameless. On Newsnight ... 'He didn't know it was against the rules that he himself had announced that week!!' These shameless sycophants are not even funny anymore

    The ones that bother me are the ones that claim to have only just noticed that Boris is unfit to be prime minister. He has always been dodgy and done a lot of harm.

    The problem we have is that so far this century, each PM has been worse than the last. Goodness knows who comes next.
    Funny you should say that.

    ‘Boris Johnson's replacement will likely be worse’

    In the meantime, Johnson will attempt to save his skin with a raft of right-wing populist policies designed to appeal to the pro-Brexit readers of the frothing Mail and Express who make up the Conservatives' core support. Just as happened with Brexit, everyone in the UK will have to suffer the consequences of the Conservatives acting as though the interests of the state are subordinate to the interests of the Conservative party, which is precisely what passes for a constitution in the UK allows them to do.

    We are in for further restrictions on the right to protest, the continuing demonisation of migrants and asylum seekers as convenient scapegoats, and yet more attacks upon any remaining institutions in the UK which are capable of restraining the wilder excesses of the Conservatives. The next Tory leader is likely to be even worse, he or she will embrace a full-throated Thatcherism, and emboldened by a surge in public support in England during their honeymoon period, will seek a snap election which could entrench Tory rule for decades to come.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/19857127.real-scottish-politics-boris-johnsons-replacement-will-likely-worse/

    "likely to be even worse (...) surge in public support in England (...) entrench Tory rule for decades"

    Something doesn't ring quite true.
    Wee Ginger Dug having a generic rant.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    So that most people's mobile phone and broadband & landline bills going up around 10% in March/April.

    Which, for most of the population, is a couple of quid. Just because it’s your own largest monthly expenditure, doesn’t mean that everyone faces the same issue.
    Have you seen the prices here?

    iPhone 13 Pro 256GB on EE with 40 GB a month is £69 a month = Near £7 increase

    That's not even the top end iPhone.

    Same with broadband.

    So it really isn't a couple of quid increase for most people.

    The average monthly cost for the most popular smartphones in 2018 was £39.60 but in 2021, this increased to £47.20 on average per month. So we're looking at a £5 for mobiles and £8 for broadband.

    Think for hardworking families that have several kids, all with smart phones.

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-9732797/Popular-mobile-phones-cost-200-2018-contract-payments-increasing-8-month.htm
    Let them use Poco phones (h/t always to OGH).

    They are excellent I am looking at mine right this minute.

    Most up to date, cutting edge one: three or four hundred pounds.

    Go on...make the leap from i...
    My bold prediction, Chinese phones will be banned in the UK and most of the West within the next few years.

    I know of a few banks who are looking at pulling their apps from all Chinese phones.

    To give Boris Johnson some credit he absolutely did the right thing banning Huawei from our mobile and 5G infrastructure.
    That would be a shame. They are cracking phones for users, cheap, fast, and, until I dropped mine on the kitchen floor last week, very durable.
  • Anyhoo, today and tomorrow is the first time I'm seeing the other half since before Christmas.

    I know how to time my breaks.

    Do you think she'll mind if I, erm, focus on the potential VOC?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    GENERAL PB TIP ON VANILLA

    If you mention someone on vanilla then for some reason there is a paragraph break next. To avoid this you need to start a paragraph after that one.

    For example @HYUFD is not a proper Tory.

    Vanilla is shit
    Don't please tell me you are one of those weird and properly strange people who like to read the latest comments at the top of the page.

    Eeesh.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Chris said:

    I still think the strangest thing about Johnson is the fact that so many people insisted he was a clever man pretending to be a stupid man, rather than a stupid man pretending to be a clever man pretending to be a stupid man.

    If you pretend to be something for very long, you become it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    So that most people's mobile phone and broadband & landline bills going up around 10% in March/April.

    Which, for most of the population, is a couple of quid. Just because it’s your own largest monthly expenditure, doesn’t mean that everyone faces the same issue.
    Have you seen the prices here?

    iPhone 13 Pro 256GB on EE with 40 GB a month is £69 a month = Near £7 increase

    That's not even the top end iPhone.

    Same with broadband.

    So it really isn't a couple of quid increase for most people.

    The average monthly cost for the most popular smartphones in 2018 was £39.60 but in 2021, this increased to £47.20 on average per month. So we're looking at a £5 for mobiles and £8 for broadband.

    Think for hardworking families that have several kids, all with smart phones.

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-9732797/Popular-mobile-phones-cost-200-2018-contract-payments-increasing-8-month.htm
    Let them use Poco phones (h/t always to OGH).

    They are excellent I am looking at mine right this minute.

    Most up to date, cutting edge one: three or four hundred pounds.

    Go on...make the leap from i...
    My bold prediction, Chinese phones will be banned in the UK and most of the West within the next few years.

    I know of a few banks who are looking at pulling their apps from all Chinese phones.

    To give Boris Johnson some credit he absolutely did the right thing banning Huawei from our mobile and 5G infrastructure.
    It'll be more than that: Chinese components (or major ones such as ICs) will eventually be banned. It's not just about the device, it's about the stuff that goes into it, and there are examples of chip-level exploits / back doors.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/jan/19/focus-on-phonics-to-teach-reading-is-failing-children-says-landmark-study

    A landmark study has described the way primary school pupils are taught to read in England as “uninformed and failing children”, calling on the government to drop its narrow focus on phonics.

    Researchers at UCL’s Institute of Education say the current emphasis on synthetic phonics, which teaches children to read by helping them to identify and pronounce sounds which they blend together to make words, is “not underpinned by the latest evidence”.


    What does the PB brains trust think of phonics? I learnt to read this way (early 90s) and so is my niece. There's obviously only so far it can go, but it seems a sensible way to get kids started.

    It's interesting, looking back, that there used to be a lot of love for phonics...

    2005: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4487734.stm
    2006: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4794696.stm
    2007: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6756295.stm

    Not sure what changed...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    I rarely get over 1GB/month, and that's only if I watch YouTube whilst out and about. It just shows how people can have very different use cases for their devices

    A friends gf (now ex...) got through over £100 of texts per month in the early 2000s. Some months it was much more.
    Last month I got through 290GB. The plan rolls over on the 3rd of each month and as of this morning I am up to 171GB
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    I've been thinking about why Boris did the car crash interview with Rigby yesterday. I thought this comment from The Times front page article was insightful. I think the argument is that the PMQs apology hadn't cut it with the public and so he had to take a punishment beating. "The most galling thing for Johnson may be that this is undeniably what is needed to save his leadership."

    It was probably one of the last plays he could make to try and turn things around. Unfortunately for him it seems to have only made his position worse.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    So that most people's mobile phone and broadband & landline bills going up around 10% in March/April.

    Which, for most of the population, is a couple of quid. Just because it’s your own largest monthly expenditure, doesn’t mean that everyone faces the same issue.
    Have you seen the prices here?

    iPhone 13 Pro 256GB on EE with 40 GB a month is £69 a month = Near £7 increase

    That's not even the top end iPhone.

    Same with broadband.

    So it really isn't a couple of quid increase for most people.

    The average monthly cost for the most popular smartphones in 2018 was £39.60 but in 2021, this increased to £47.20 on average per month. So we're looking at a £5 for mobiles and £8 for broadband.

    Think for hardworking families that have several kids, all with smart phones.

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-9732797/Popular-mobile-phones-cost-200-2018-contract-payments-increasing-8-month.htm
    Let them use Poco phones (h/t always to OGH).

    They are excellent I am looking at mine right this minute.

    Most up to date, cutting edge one: three or four hundred pounds.

    Go on...make the leap from i...
    My bold prediction, Chinese phones will be banned in the UK and most of the West within the next few years.

    I know of a few banks who are looking at pulling their apps from all Chinese phones.

    To give Boris Johnson some credit he absolutely did the right thing banning Huawei from our mobile and 5G infrastructure.
    It'll be more than that: Chinese components (or major ones such as ICs) will eventually be banned. It's not just about the device, it's about the stuff that goes into it, and there are examples of chip-level exploits / back doors.
    There’s a story in the tech press today, that the US Olympic accociation has told everyone travelling to China for the Winter Games to take a burner phone and a burner email address. There’s an Olympics Covid app everyone has to use, which is barely disguised spyware.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    I used 1.1GB in two hours when I used my phone as a hotspot for a teams call I joined from the M6/5/4 (my wife was driving), but I haven't had call to do that very often for the last couple of years. Even before the pandemic my usage varied considerably depending on whether I had access to reliable wifi.
  • Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wowsers.

    Boris Johnson partygate crisis: Poll gives Labour 32-point lead in London

    Exclusive: Eight Tory MPs could lose their seats in London if bombshell poll is replicated at next General Election


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/yougov-poll-labour-lead-london-boris-johnson-party-downing-st-plan-b-b977489.html

    Not that surprising given London, especially Inner London, was Remain central. The only reason most Tory MPs in Remain seats in London in 2019 held their seats was to keep out Corbyn, wealthy Remainers see Starmer as much less of a threat.

    Tories doing a bit better in Outer London though were a few areas like Hillingdon, Bexley and Havering voted Leave on 25% than Inner London, where every borough voted Remain and the Tories are on just 18%. That suggests the Tories could not only lose Wandsworth and Barnet in May but even lose Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea on a really bad night
    Last Starmer interview I read said that there was no question of Rejoining in his mind. We were OUT, end of.

    What that suggests is that, in his mind, apart from a few committed Europeans like myself banging on about it, he doesn't expect the EU to be an issue at the next, and indeed next but one election.

    So whether an area was Leave or Remain in 2016 will be immaterial. The issue will be the Governments overall competence.
    Nope. Brexit is still a major division, the latest Yougov has 53% of Remainers backing Labour and just 12% backing the Tories. However 56% of Leavers still back the Tories even under Boris wth just 20% backing Labour.

    Starmer would also of course at least take the UK back into a Customs Union with the EU unlike the Tories

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/01/18/voting-intention-con-31-lab-39-13-14-jan
    This may be a fallacy but I'm genuinely not sure if you're able to comprehend why.

    If you divided the country along a range of political and ethical issues you would find that the labels attached to 'Remain' and 'Leave' could equally be applied to other stances, beliefs and traits.

    It takes someone fixated on Brexit, which most of us have moved on from, to assume that the categories still apply. In fact, if you poll people on what currently matters to them in their everyday lives, the EU doesn't even feature in the top 20.

    It suits me fine if you're typical of other tories of your caste. It means that you'll completely miss the point and be out of power for a generation.
    On a point of order, @HYUFD is not a typical tory, indeed I believe he is unique as in all my years associated with the conservative party (60) I have never come across anyone like him
    Councillor Delyth Miles, the National Chair of something or other within the Conservative Party was on TV last night, can't remember on what, and she was singing off HY's hymnsheet, claiming 60% plus of Party members still love Johnson. HY is very much not alone.
    I heard her on 5 live just now and yes indeed, completely delusional
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Scott_xP said:

    Oops

    So James Heappey thinks it is the fault of the Civil Servants who ‘put it (20/5/20) in the PM’s diary’. Sorry, I thought we’d established the PM did not know this was a pre-arranged event until he saw the invite last week. Can we see the PM’s diary then please? #BBCBreakfast
    https://twitter.com/SixVpf/status/1483708639626080258

    I expect they'll say that Boris Johnson relied on other people to read his diary for him.
  • Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    I still think the strangest thing about Johnson is the fact that so many people insisted he was a clever man pretending to be a stupid man, rather than a stupid man pretending to be a clever man pretending to be a stupid man.

    If you pretend to be something for very long, you become it.
    So that applies to my legendary modesty, am I right?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    The issue isn't protest. Or at least it shouldn't be. The issue ought to be disruption. We can all be high-minded about rights to free expression and assembly but extinction rebellion and insulate Britain DID cause major disruption i.e harm. People have a right to be angry about that. The Supreme Court might have exploded a legal grenade with its verdict that a certain level of disruption had to be tolerated in a free society. Well what does that mean exactly?

    Many liberty lovers would have applauded that but what if the consequence is the government introducing more draconian laws as a counter measure? Activists judges might actually be their own worst enemy in this. Of course I don't have any confidence in Patel who seems like a minister playing to the gallery in search of favourable tabloid headlines. But one has to understand why she has found such fertile territory.

    We already have plenty of laws to deal with disruption and public order offences.
    I remember an interesting situation.

    Way back in the 80s, the police and intelligence services used their infiltration of the NI terrorist groups and various criminal gangs to cultivate "Supergrasses" - people who who would give evidence against the really big fish in open court. Basically the American system - "You are looking at life. What have you got to say to help yourself".

    A bunch of noble, brilliant QCs fought desperately against such a terrible system. They managed to get it stuck down with rulings that the evidence was inadmissible.

    So the police, instead of catching armed robbers *before* their "jobs", lay in wait for them. And shot them dead.

    The Intelligence services did the same to the IRA - it was called "shoot to kill'.

    The noble, brilliant QCs complained about that, IIRC.

    But they never seemed to admit that there was a connection to their actions.

    The problem with constructing a constitution by legal/judicial activism* is Democracy.

    We have had centuries of telling people that voting is the ultimate power, that their elected representatives in Parliament can do *anything*.

    Something will have to give.....

    *The creation, in effect, of new law, via judicial judgement, of new meanings in old laws
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stakeknife-Britains-Secret-Agents-Ireland/dp/0862788439

    Is a very good book which it sounds like you have read (or perhaps you wrote it...)

    Explains a lot also about 14 Int and FRU whatever the hell they were.
    I a just a fool who reads too much. And remembers everything except things that would make me rich. If I could photocopy law books into my brain the way I can remember obscure details of 19th Cent ship construction...

    Anyway... Yes. A brilliant example of state adaption to legal challenge. The Government lawyers were horrified by the earlier suggestions by the security services to handle it as an intelligence war. Hence the super grass efforts. When that was er... shot down, they went ahead

    Due to bugs and other technical intelligence, the security services turned a number of very high ranking terrorists. Since they couldn't be used for trials, they were used to plant more bugs - simply getting them to report on what they knew of upcoming attacks would have got them caught very quickly.

    So the question became - what do you do with this pile of intelligence? The answer was simple, really. You act on *some* of it. Deliberately framing particular people who *aren't* your agents - you act on what only the "framed" person would know. Eventually the internal security mob in the terrorist organisation catches on, and murders your fall guy. It helps when the internal intelligence outfit is being run by one of your agents....

    The interesting wrinkle was towards the end of the conflict. The people "framed" as being British agents turned out, curiously often, to be hardliners against the proposed peace process.......
  • boulay said:

    Jonathan said:

    Curious challenge for Starmer today. How should he play it? Boris will come out swinging, desperately looking for a win. A dead, forward defensive shot, bat might be the right thing to do. Somber questions about Ukraine, deaths and the detail about the cost of living, anything to deny Boris oxygen. Finish one or two short to avoid Boris getting his sound bites in?

    If I were Starmer I would try and craft a “when did you last beat your wife” type question on Parties and then switch the rest of the questions to really detailed technical questions re inflation.

    The first question gets Boris tied up with excuses and maybe hangs himself re parties. By then changing to really detailed technical questions re inflation it should unbalance Boris as I imagine he would be prepped for Parties but then useless at detail re inflation/economy etc and show that not only is he in a mess with Parties but also doesn’t have a clue about technical detail that’s crucial to most of the country - so shifty AND useless.

    That’s presuming Starmer wants him gone….
    I'm not sure he does now, but the Tory leadership isn't really in his hands.

    I'd make the theme "while the Conservatives are consumed in their own civil war, hard-working families face rising costs".

    I'd also get some jabs in at key Tory leadership contenders. If Sunak isn't there, that's an open goal, if he is then "nice to see the Chancellor turning up this time..." For Truss, "Surprised to see the Foreign Secretary here. Hasn't she got a 'fizz with Liz' party - or work event as the PM calls them - to organise?"
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    APOLOGY

    Whereas previously we, the 2019 intake of Conservative MPS PB Tories, were united in thinking that Boris Johnson was a breath of fresh air, a true leader, an incisive thinker, and someone who can cut through the fog of Westminster politics and deliver real benefits to the country, we now appreciate that he is a useless no hoper with no vision, ideas, or moral compass and we thoroughly reject his leadership.

    There you go, I fixed your typo.... :D:D
    I think you have taken a couple of years off the site, haven't you? And failed, in a Johnson like fashion, to do your homework about what changes occurred in your absence. The vast majority of pb tories were equivocal to hostile to Johnson even in 2019 and the only remaining one, HYUFD, has never applauded Johnson, only polls showing a Johnson lead
    No, I took about six months off but I was certainly around when Boris was elevated to PM to the cheers of the gallery on here and the expectation that the sunlit uplands were about to be delivered. Anyone who pointed out what a tw*t he was got a good shouting down.
    ALL LEAVER Tories in fact. HYUFD was infact an exception because unlike the real Boris cheerleaders he was still getting over Mrs May.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    TOPPING said:

    GENERAL PB TIP ON VANILLA

    If you mention someone on vanilla then for some reason there is a paragraph break next. To avoid this you need to start a paragraph after that one.

    For example @HYUFD is not a proper Tory.

    Same thing happens for me on the proper site: politicalbetting.com. Suspect it's a Vanilla-driven thing though.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Scott_xP said:

    As a junior politico I had to write briefs for a debate. A 5-pager for the Minister and MPs who read, and a 1-pager for MPs who like it shorter.

    Johnson was the shadow minister at the time. I got a note: the one-pager was too long. He needs 4-5 bullet points max.

    https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1483711385053839367
    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1483538781919760395

    I have a little bit of sympathy but only a little bit. Too much detail isn't good for getting your head around what to say in front of the media, and you should be able to summarise to that level.

    Of course, you also need the whole brief to actually understand any issue, and that's the key. And I expect old BJ to not even bother to get his head around the detail at all.

    The best quote on this was from one of his allies over the weekend, who said that Johnson was now so worried about his future that he had started actually reading his government papers.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Huge expectation about what today holds but important to remember only one man - Sir Graham Brady - knows how many letters are in.

    Rebels excitable, but possible they are talking up prospects / relying on colleagues who are bluffing.

    Either way today’s PMQs is one to watch.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1483706768001839105

    It will be interesting to see if the PB Tories "big up" Boris afterwards! "I thought he did rather well. Starmer was rubbish..."
    PB Tories are a pale shadow of their former selves nowadays; the days when PB Tories bestrode this forum like colossi of political commentary are over ;)
    Tories reinvent themselves, they now bestride it like colossi of penetrating non-aligned a-plague-on-all-their-houses commentary. Normal service to resume shortly.
    Somewhere in the distance, a faint light, just a glimpse, but yes there's something out there is our old party back. If we have to wait for Truss et al to wear themselves out so be it.
    I hope you do get your old party back - the one I used to vote for. The current version is a cancerous abomination and it needs to go.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    So that most people's mobile phone and broadband & landline bills going up around 10% in March/April.

    Which, for most of the population, is a couple of quid. Just because it’s your own largest monthly expenditure, doesn’t mean that everyone faces the same issue.
    Have you seen the prices here?

    iPhone 13 Pro 256GB on EE with 40 GB a month is £69 a month = Near £7 increase

    That's not even the top end iPhone.

    Same with broadband.

    So it really isn't a couple of quid increase for most people.

    The average monthly cost for the most popular smartphones in 2018 was £39.60 but in 2021, this increased to £47.20 on average per month. So we're looking at a £5 for mobiles and £8 for broadband.

    Think for hardworking families that have several kids, all with smart phones.

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-9732797/Popular-mobile-phones-cost-200-2018-contract-payments-increasing-8-month.htm
    Let them use Poco phones (h/t always to OGH).

    They are excellent I am looking at mine right this minute.

    Most up to date, cutting edge one: three or four hundred pounds.

    Go on...make the leap from i...
    It's another example of how being rich(er) saves money. Buy a phone outright and get a SIM only deal is always cheaper. But you have to have the upfront cash to buy outright.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    I still think the strangest thing about Johnson is the fact that so many people insisted he was a clever man pretending to be a stupid man, rather than a stupid man pretending to be a clever man pretending to be a stupid man.

    If you pretend to be something for very long, you become it.
    That can only work when the thing you pretend to be is within your capabilities. A clever person can become stupid but a stupid person is always going to be stupid even when pretending to be clever.
  • boulay said:

    Jonathan said:

    Curious challenge for Starmer today. How should he play it? Boris will come out swinging, desperately looking for a win. A dead, forward defensive shot, bat might be the right thing to do. Somber questions about Ukraine, deaths and the detail about the cost of living, anything to deny Boris oxygen. Finish one or two short to avoid Boris getting his sound bites in?

    If I were Starmer I would try and craft a “when did you last beat your wife” type question on Parties and then switch the rest of the questions to really detailed technical questions re inflation.

    The first question gets Boris tied up with excuses and maybe hangs himself re parties. By then changing to really detailed technical questions re inflation it should unbalance Boris as I imagine he would be prepped for Parties but then useless at detail re inflation/economy etc and show that not only is he in a mess with Parties but also doesn’t have a clue about technical detail that’s crucial to most of the country - so shifty AND useless.

    That’s presuming Starmer wants him gone….
    I'm not sure he does now, but the Tory leadership isn't really in his hands.

    I'd make the theme "while the Conservatives are consumed in their own civil war, hard-working families face rising costs".

    I'd also get some jabs in at key Tory leadership contenders. If Sunak isn't there, that's an open goal, if he is then "nice to see the Chancellor turning up this time..." For Truss, "Surprised to see the Foreign Secretary here. Hasn't she got a 'fizz with Liz' party - or work event as the PM calls them - to organise?"
    I understand Liz is off to Australia so not sure she will be at pmqs
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/jan/19/focus-on-phonics-to-teach-reading-is-failing-children-says-landmark-study

    A landmark study has described the way primary school pupils are taught to read in England as “uninformed and failing children”, calling on the government to drop its narrow focus on phonics.

    Researchers at UCL’s Institute of Education say the current emphasis on synthetic phonics, which teaches children to read by helping them to identify and pronounce sounds which they blend together to make words, is “not underpinned by the latest evidence”.


    What does the PB brains trust think of phonics? I learnt to read this way (early 90s) and so is my niece. There's obviously only so far it can go, but it seems a sensible way to get kids started.

    It's interesting, looking back, that there used to be a lot of love for phonics...

    2005: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4487734.stm
    2006: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4794696.stm
    2007: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6756295.stm

    Not sure what changed...

    Already discussed upthread - and indeed in the article you link:
    ...Wyse went on: “For the first time in more than 100 years we see that a balanced-instruction approach to the teaching of reading is no longer the norm in England. The majority of teachers are now reporting the more frequent use of the narrower synthetic phonics approach.

    “Our view is that the system doesn’t give teachers enough flexibility to do what they think is best for their pupils, nor to encourage pupils to enjoy reading.”

    Co-author Prof Alice Bradbury said research had showed that teachers feel pressured by the compulsory screening check. Results from a survey of 2,200 teachers found synthetic phonics was their main focus for teaching reading.

    All but one of the 936 comments from the survey were negative about the screening test, while one teacher described having to “live and breathe phonics” and another appealed for “reflection on the mass of skills involved in reading rather than solely focusing on phonics”.

    “Policy changes have led to changes in teaching, including more time being spent on phonics, the separation of phonics from other literacy activities, and a reliance on a small number of phonics schemes,” said Bradbury. “This is an important shift in how children are taught to read, a shift which is not underpinned by the research evidence.”...


    There is nothing wrong with phonics per se - the problem is the Gove insistence that it underpin all teaching of reading. His dogmatism has done a great deal of damage in education.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    Yeah but I bet you don’t watch Tik Tok or YouTube for hours a day.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    The big divide is between between people who download video on the go and those who use Wifi at home to per-download.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    I still think the strangest thing about Johnson is the fact that so many people insisted he was a clever man pretending to be a stupid man, rather than a stupid man pretending to be a clever man pretending to be a stupid man.

    If you pretend to be something for very long, you become it.
    So that applies to my legendary modesty, am I right?
    Yes, you have indeed become a supreme ironist.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    The issue isn't protest. Or at least it shouldn't be. The issue ought to be disruption. We can all be high-minded about rights to free expression and assembly but extinction rebellion and insulate Britain DID cause major disruption i.e harm. People have a right to be angry about that. The Supreme Court might have exploded a legal grenade with its verdict that a certain level of disruption had to be tolerated in a free society. Well what does that mean exactly?

    Many liberty lovers would have applauded that but what if the consequence is the government introducing more draconian laws as a counter measure? Activists judges might actually be their own worst enemy in this. Of course I don't have any confidence in Patel who seems like a minister playing to the gallery in search of favourable tabloid headlines. But one has to understand why she has found such fertile territory.

    We already have plenty of laws to deal with disruption and public order offences.
    I remember an interesting situation.

    Way back in the 80s, the police and intelligence services used their infiltration of the NI terrorist groups and various criminal gangs to cultivate "Supergrasses" - people who who would give evidence against the really big fish in open court. Basically the American system - "You are looking at life. What have you got to say to help yourself".

    A bunch of noble, brilliant QCs fought desperately against such a terrible system. They managed to get it stuck down with rulings that the evidence was inadmissible.

    So the police, instead of catching armed robbers *before* their "jobs", lay in wait for them. And shot them dead.

    The Intelligence services did the same to the IRA - it was called "shoot to kill'.

    The noble, brilliant QCs complained about that, IIRC.

    But they never seemed to admit that there was a connection to their actions.

    The problem with constructing a constitution by legal/judicial activism* is Democracy.

    We have had centuries of telling people that voting is the ultimate power, that their elected representatives in Parliament can do *anything*.

    Something will have to give.....

    *The creation, in effect, of new law, via judicial judgement, of new meanings in old laws
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stakeknife-Britains-Secret-Agents-Ireland/dp/0862788439

    Is a very good book which it sounds like you have read (or perhaps you wrote it...)

    Explains a lot also about 14 Int and FRU whatever the hell they were.
    I a just a fool who reads too much. And remembers everything except things that would make me rich. If I could photocopy law books into my brain the way I can remember obscure details of 19th Cent ship construction...

    Anyway... Yes. A brilliant example of state adaption to legal challenge. The Government lawyers were horrified by the earlier suggestions by the security services to handle it as an intelligence war. Hence the super grass efforts. When that was er... shot down, they went ahead

    Due to bugs and other technical intelligence, the security services turned a number of very high ranking terrorists. Since they couldn't be used for trials, they were used to plant more bugs - simply getting them to report on what they knew of upcoming attacks would have got them caught very quickly.

    So the question became - what do you do with this pile of intelligence? The answer was simple, really. You act on *some* of it. Deliberately framing particular people who *aren't* your agents - you act on what only the "framed" person would know. Eventually the internal security mob in the terrorist organisation catches on, and murders your fall guy. It helps when the internal intelligence outfit is being run by one of your agents....

    The interesting wrinkle was towards the end of the conflict. The people "framed" as being British agents turned out, curiously often, to be hardliners against the proposed peace process.......
    By the end it was easier to work out who wasn't an agent of some type.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Huge expectation about what today holds but important to remember only one man - Sir Graham Brady - knows how many letters are in.

    Rebels excitable, but possible they are talking up prospects / relying on colleagues who are bluffing.

    Either way today’s PMQs is one to watch.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1483706768001839105

    It will be interesting to see if the PB Tories "big up" Boris afterwards! "I thought he did rather well. Starmer was rubbish..."
    PB Tories are a pale shadow of their former selves nowadays; the days when PB Tories bestrode this forum like colossi of political commentary are over ;)
    Tories reinvent themselves, they now bestride it like colossi of penetrating non-aligned a-plague-on-all-their-houses commentary. Normal service to resume shortly.
    It's the hubris that always gets them, whether of the "May's majority is going to be mahoosive" of 2017 or the "After years of government, Boris still leads the polls" of last autumn...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    This F...ing Tory Party are completely shameless. On Newsnight ... 'He didn't know it was against the rules that he himself had announced that week!!' These shameless sycophants are not even funny anymore

    The ones that bother me are the ones that claim to have only just noticed that Boris is unfit to be prime minister. He has always been dodgy and done a lot of harm.

    The problem we have is that so far this century, each PM has been worse than the last. Goodness knows who comes next.
    Funny you should say that.

    ‘Boris Johnson's replacement will likely be worse’

    In the meantime, Johnson will attempt to save his skin with a raft of right-wing populist policies designed to appeal to the pro-Brexit readers of the frothing Mail and Express who make up the Conservatives' core support. Just as happened with Brexit, everyone in the UK will have to suffer the consequences of the Conservatives acting as though the interests of the state are subordinate to the interests of the Conservative party, which is precisely what passes for a constitution in the UK allows them to do.

    We are in for further restrictions on the right to protest, the continuing demonisation of migrants and asylum seekers as convenient scapegoats, and yet more attacks upon any remaining institutions in the UK which are capable of restraining the wilder excesses of the Conservatives. The next Tory leader is likely to be even worse, he or she will embrace a full-throated Thatcherism, and emboldened by a surge in public support in England during their honeymoon period, will seek a snap election which could entrench Tory rule for decades to come.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/19857127.real-scottish-politics-boris-johnsons-replacement-will-likely-worse/

    There’s a lot of wild extrapolation in there. Particularly the “surge in public support in England” and “snap election” bit. Doesn’t seem quite right.
    CON MAJ is just 2/1. Perfectly feasible. If it hits 3/1 a lot of people will be eager buyers.
    “If”. Feasible, yes. But a “feasible” majority at the next GE and a likely snap election to “entrench Tory rule for decades come” are not remotely the same thing.
    Indeed - but you have to factor in the SoctNat belief that the English are morally lower than the Scots. So they will vote for EVUL!!!!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited January 2022

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    The big divide is between between people who download video on the go and those who use Wifi at home to per-download.
    There's also a big divide between those in long distance relationships and those who have younger children and those who do not.

    A lot of my data usage is facetiming/video calling to see the people I love.

    I say that as someone who pre plague used 500GB a month in data.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    GENERAL PB TIP ON VANILLA

    If you mention someone on vanilla then for some reason there is a paragraph break next. To avoid this you need to start a paragraph after that one.

    For example @HYUFD is not a proper Tory.

    Vanilla is shit
    Don't please tell me you are one of those weird and properly strange people who like to read the latest comments at the top of the page.

    Eeesh.
    No, I just mean that Vanilla is shit. Doesn't matter whether you're reading on Vanilla or PB, the overall commenting functionality is low-key broken.
    All the options for comment systems are low-key broken - vanilla isn't actually that bad once you see the other options.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wowsers.

    Boris Johnson partygate crisis: Poll gives Labour 32-point lead in London

    Exclusive: Eight Tory MPs could lose their seats in London if bombshell poll is replicated at next General Election


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/yougov-poll-labour-lead-london-boris-johnson-party-downing-st-plan-b-b977489.html

    Not that surprising given London, especially Inner London, was Remain central. The only reason most Tory MPs in Remain seats in London in 2019 held their seats was to keep out Corbyn, wealthy Remainers see Starmer as much less of a threat.

    Tories doing a bit better in Outer London though were a few areas like Hillingdon, Bexley and Havering voted Leave on 25% than Inner London, where every borough voted Remain and the Tories are on just 18%. That suggests the Tories could not only lose Wandsworth and Barnet in May but even lose Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea on a really bad night
    Last Starmer interview I read said that there was no question of Rejoining in his mind. We were OUT, end of.

    What that suggests is that, in his mind, apart from a few committed Europeans like myself banging on about it, he doesn't expect the EU to be an issue at the next, and indeed next but one election.

    So whether an area was Leave or Remain in 2016 will be immaterial. The issue will be the Governments overall competence.
    Nope. Brexit is still a major division, the latest Yougov has 53% of Remainers backing Labour and just 12% backing the Tories. However 56% of Leavers still back the Tories even under Boris wth just 20% backing Labour.

    Starmer would also of course at least take the UK back into a Customs Union with the EU unlike the Tories

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/01/18/voting-intention-con-31-lab-39-13-14-jan
    This may be a fallacy but I'm genuinely not sure if you're able to comprehend why.

    If you divided the country along a range of political and ethical issues you would find that the labels attached to 'Remain' and 'Leave' could equally be applied to other stances, beliefs and traits.

    It takes someone fixated on Brexit, which most of us have moved on from, to assume that the categories still apply. In fact, if you poll people on what currently matters to them in their everyday lives, the EU doesn't even feature in the top 20.

    It suits me fine if you're typical of other tories of your caste. It means that you'll completely miss the point and be out of power for a generation.
    On a point of order, @HYUFD is not a typical tory, indeed I believe he is unique as in all my years associated with the conservative party (60) I have never come across anyone like him
    Councillor Delyth Miles, the National Chair of something or other within the Conservative Party was on TV last night, can't remember on what, and she was singing off HY's hymnsheet, claiming 60% plus of Party members still love Johnson. HY is very much not alone.
    I heard her on 5 live just now and yes indeed, completely delusional
    To be fair, the evidence seems to be that Tory activists haven't turned against Boris nearly as strongly as Conservative members and voters. The woman concerned will mostly mix and talk with activists, as will some of the lazier MPs (yes, Bone, that's you) who didn't make any effort at the weekend to take soundings outside their inner circle. Those that made an effort to seek views from those less active in politics are getting a different picture.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    I still think the strangest thing about Johnson is the fact that so many people insisted he was a clever man pretending to be a stupid man, rather than a stupid man pretending to be a clever man pretending to be a stupid man.

    If you pretend to be something for very long, you become it.
    So that applies to my legendary modesty, am I right?
    You do have to actually, you know, play at being what you're claiming to be. Just a little bit at least.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Roger said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    APOLOGY

    Whereas previously we, the 2019 intake of Conservative MPS PB Tories, were united in thinking that Boris Johnson was a breath of fresh air, a true leader, an incisive thinker, and someone who can cut through the fog of Westminster politics and deliver real benefits to the country, we now appreciate that he is a useless no hoper with no vision, ideas, or moral compass and we thoroughly reject his leadership.

    There you go, I fixed your typo.... :D:D
    I think you have taken a couple of years off the site, haven't you? And failed, in a Johnson like fashion, to do your homework about what changes occurred in your absence. The vast majority of pb tories were equivocal to hostile to Johnson even in 2019 and the only remaining one, HYUFD, has never applauded Johnson, only polls showing a Johnson lead
    No, I took about six months off but I was certainly around when Boris was elevated to PM to the cheers of the gallery on here and the expectation that the sunlit uplands were about to be delivered. Anyone who pointed out what a tw*t he was got a good shouting down.
    ALL LEAVER Tories in fact. HYUFD was infact an exception because unlike the real Boris cheerleaders he was still getting over Mrs May.
    I was one of the 9% who voted for May's Tories in the May 2019 European elections true, when the likes of Philip Thompson voted for Farage's Brexit Party.

    Even if I then voted for Boris in the leadership election and for the Boris led Tories in the December 2019 general election
  • boulay said:

    Jonathan said:

    Curious challenge for Starmer today. How should he play it? Boris will come out swinging, desperately looking for a win. A dead, forward defensive shot, bat might be the right thing to do. Somber questions about Ukraine, deaths and the detail about the cost of living, anything to deny Boris oxygen. Finish one or two short to avoid Boris getting his sound bites in?

    If I were Starmer I would try and craft a “when did you last beat your wife” type question on Parties and then switch the rest of the questions to really detailed technical questions re inflation.

    The first question gets Boris tied up with excuses and maybe hangs himself re parties. By then changing to really detailed technical questions re inflation it should unbalance Boris as I imagine he would be prepped for Parties but then useless at detail re inflation/economy etc and show that not only is he in a mess with Parties but also doesn’t have a clue about technical detail that’s crucial to most of the country - so shifty AND useless.

    That’s presuming Starmer wants him gone….
    I'm not sure he does now, but the Tory leadership isn't really in his hands.

    I'd make the theme "while the Conservatives are consumed in their own civil war, hard-working families face rising costs".

    I'd also get some jabs in at key Tory leadership contenders. If Sunak isn't there, that's an open goal, if he is then "nice to see the Chancellor turning up this time..." For Truss, "Surprised to see the Foreign Secretary here. Hasn't she got a 'fizz with Liz' party - or work event as the PM calls them - to organise?"
    I understand Liz is off to Australia so not sure she will be at pmqs
    In that case she "couldn't wait to get as far away as possible..."

    I know these are dreadful cheap shots, but Starmer needs to widen the damage. Johnson might well be on his way out, and Starmer needs to make it harder for a successor to get a bounce from that.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Looks like outdoor winter sports will be pretty much non-existent by the end of this century. Swedish meteorological research shows that most Scandinavian resorts, training facilities and competition venues will be pretty much unusable by 2100.

    The Alps and Scotland can forget it.

    We'll have vineyards in Scotland instead.
    Most problems bring opportunities. But I’m not sure that I really want to see the Costa del Lochaber when the Costa del Sol becomes part of the Sahara. Luckily ah’ll be lang deid.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    Yeah but I bet you don’t watch Tik Tok or YouTube for hours a day.
    ... while not in range of a wifi you can use.

    Who the hell needs to do that in this day and age?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    TOPPING said:

    GENERAL PB TIP ON VANILLA

    If you mention someone on vanilla then for some reason there is a paragraph break next. To avoid this you need to start a paragraph after that one.

    For example @HYUFD is not a proper Tory.

    Great example.
    However, the correct expression is HYUFD is not a real Tory.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    For the avoidance of doubt can I make absolutely it clear that my desire for a change of leadership has nothing to do with my 250/1 bet on PM Sunak with Ladbrokes

    Full disclosure always appreciated.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/jan/19/focus-on-phonics-to-teach-reading-is-failing-children-says-landmark-study

    A landmark study has described the way primary school pupils are taught to read in England as “uninformed and failing children”, calling on the government to drop its narrow focus on phonics.

    Researchers at UCL’s Institute of Education say the current emphasis on synthetic phonics, which teaches children to read by helping them to identify and pronounce sounds which they blend together to make words, is “not underpinned by the latest evidence”.


    What does the PB brains trust think of phonics? I learnt to read this way (early 90s) and so is my niece. There's obviously only so far it can go, but it seems a sensible way to get kids started.

    It's interesting, looking back, that there used to be a lot of love for phonics...

    2005: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4487734.stm
    2006: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4794696.stm
    2007: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6756295.stm

    Not sure what changed...

    Already discussed upthread - and indeed in the article you link:
    ...Wyse went on: “For the first time in more than 100 years we see that a balanced-instruction approach to the teaching of reading is no longer the norm in England. The majority of teachers are now reporting the more frequent use of the narrower synthetic phonics approach.

    “Our view is that the system doesn’t give teachers enough flexibility to do what they think is best for their pupils, nor to encourage pupils to enjoy reading.”

    Co-author Prof Alice Bradbury said research had showed that teachers feel pressured by the compulsory screening check. Results from a survey of 2,200 teachers found synthetic phonics was their main focus for teaching reading.

    All but one of the 936 comments from the survey were negative about the screening test, while one teacher described having to “live and breathe phonics” and another appealed for “reflection on the mass of skills involved in reading rather than solely focusing on phonics”.

    “Policy changes have led to changes in teaching, including more time being spent on phonics, the separation of phonics from other literacy activities, and a reliance on a small number of phonics schemes,” said Bradbury. “This is an important shift in how children are taught to read, a shift which is not underpinned by the research evidence.”...


    There is nothing wrong with phonics per se - the problem is the Gove insistence that it underpin all teaching of reading. His dogmatism has done a great deal of damage in education.
    Interesting. A friend of my sister's moved her daughter from one primary school to another recently. The girl is in year 1 and the school she was at was a complete mess. Apparently, it was something to do with them introducing a new method of teaching that sounded a lot like doing no teaching at all! (learn through play or something).
  • TOPPING said:

    .

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    APOLOGY

    Whereas previously we, the 2019 intake of Conservative MPS PB Tories, were united in thinking that Boris Johnson was a breath of fresh air, a true leader, an incisive thinker, and someone who can cut through the fog of Westminster politics and deliver real benefits to the country, we now appreciate that he is a useless no hoper with no vision, ideas, or moral compass and we thoroughly reject his leadership.

    There you go, I fixed your typo.... :D:D
    I think you have taken a couple of years off the site, haven't you? And failed, in a Johnson like fashion, to do your homework about what changes occurred in your absence. The vast majority of pb tories were equivocal to hostile to Johnson even in 2019 and the only remaining one, HYUFD, has never applauded Johnson, only polls showing a Johnson lead
    Problem is, as @Theuniondivvie points out with some justification, "PB Tory" is similar to "Metropolitan Elite" which cannot be shed it just is, regardless of the detail.

    For example, @kinabalu I'm sure likes champagne (who doesn't) and is a socialist (by his own admission). But even if his favourite tipple was mild & bitter he would nevertheless be a Champagne Socialist, perhaps to his chagrin.

    .
    I think I would grudgingly accept the term Champagne Socialist being applied to me even though I don't like Champagne.
    I’m a bench made shoe Bolshevik..
  • For the avoidance of doubt can I make absolutely it clear that my desire for a change of leadership has nothing to do with my 250/1 bet on PM Sunak with Ladbrokes

    I'd expect nothing less. The fact it could make the difference between a summer in the Bahamas and caravanning in Rhyl this year should not for a moment influence your editorial position.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nadine, raging against the dying of the light...

    Exclusive:

    Nadine Dorries hits out at 'disloyal' plotters

    'The people who are doing this are being disloyal to PM, the party, their constituents and to the wider country

    'The only reason their constituents voted for them is because Boris Johnson was standing as PM'
    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483566263435677700/photo/1

    'Removing Boris Johnson will give us one thing: Keir Starmer as Prime Minister' says Nadine
    Why don't you just resign as a conservative as you are so full of negatively the party would not miss you and Dorries is a disaster and needs sending to the back benches

    And I can take your place as I rejoin as Boris leaves
    I don't hate the Tory leader and PM unlike you.

    I do not hate Boris but then I cannot support his behaviour over Paterson, wallpapergate and partygate, and the trashing of the conservative brand

    You seem to be happy to predict years in opposition for the party so why not resign as you can hardly promote the party
    I am always loyal to the party, even in 2001 when you were happily voting Labour
    You voted for Plaid and you simply could not canvass for the party with a new leader in view of your statements
    Utter rubbish, you have spent the last few weeks trashing the party and its leader.

    Plenty of Tories were loyal to Thatcher to the end in 1990, they still canvassed for Major in 1992
    It is Boris Johnson and his pals who have trashed the Conservative Party, not Big_G_NorthWales. You are just lashing out at imagined enemies. Quite sad to witness.
    No, it is Dominic Cummings. Who more likely than not will still usher in a decade or more of Labour rule, not the decade of Sunak and Gove rule he wants
    Er… it was the Conservative Party who employed Dominic Cummings. You cannot purchase the services of a witch doctor and then blame the ensuing bùrach on said witch doctor.

    Moral of tale: avoid sinister pedlars of dreams.
    Subject of tale: Brexit.
    It was Boris and Brexit which was the only reason the Tories got their first landslide majority in 2019 since Thatcher's in 1987
    You gained Brexit and lost the world.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited January 2022

    For the avoidance of doubt can I make it absolutely clear that my desire for a change of leadership has nothing to do with my 250/1 bet on PM Sunak with Ladbrokes

    I'd like to state the fact I may appear to be enjoying Boris Johnson's difficulties is absolutely nothing to do with my £5,000 winnings.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    TOPPING said:

    .

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    APOLOGY

    Whereas previously we, the 2019 intake of Conservative MPS PB Tories, were united in thinking that Boris Johnson was a breath of fresh air, a true leader, an incisive thinker, and someone who can cut through the fog of Westminster politics and deliver real benefits to the country, we now appreciate that he is a useless no hoper with no vision, ideas, or moral compass and we thoroughly reject his leadership.

    There you go, I fixed your typo.... :D:D
    I think you have taken a couple of years off the site, haven't you? And failed, in a Johnson like fashion, to do your homework about what changes occurred in your absence. The vast majority of pb tories were equivocal to hostile to Johnson even in 2019 and the only remaining one, HYUFD, has never applauded Johnson, only polls showing a Johnson lead
    Problem is, as @Theuniondivvie points out with some justification, "PB Tory" is similar to "Metropolitan Elite" which cannot be shed it just is, regardless of the detail.

    For example, @kinabalu I'm sure likes champagne (who doesn't) and is a socialist (by his own admission). But even if his favourite tipple was mild & bitter he would nevertheless be a Champagne Socialist, perhaps to his chagrin.

    .
    I think I would grudgingly accept the term Champagne Socialist being applied to me even though I don't like Champagne.
    I’m a bench made shoe Bolshevik..
    Lobbs?
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    On the subject of an acting/caretaker/interim PM, this is interesting and useful from Wikipedia.


    Despite refusing "...to discuss a hypothetical situation" with BBC News in 2011,[15] the Cabinet Office is said to have said in 2006:[16]

    There is no single protocol setting out all of the possible implications. However, the general constitutional position is as set out below. There can be no automatic assumption about who The Queen would ask to act as caretaker Prime Minister in the event of the death of the Prime Minister. The decision is for her under the Royal Prerogative. However, there are some key guiding principles. The Queen would probably be looking for a very senior member of the Government (not necessarily a Commons Minister since this would be a short-term appointment). If there was a recognised deputy to the Prime Minister, used to acting on his behalf in his absences, this could be an important factor. Also important would be the question of who was likely to be in contention to take over long-term as Prime Minister. If the most senior member of the Government was him or herself a contender for the role of Prime Minister, it might be that The Queen would invite a slightly less senior non-contender. In these circumstances, her private secretary would probably take soundings, via the Cabinet Secretary, of members of the Cabinet, to ensure that The Queen invited someone who would be acceptable to the Cabinet to act as their chair during the caretaker period. Once the Party had elected a new leader, that person would, of course, be invited to take over as Prime Minister.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    For the avoidance of doubt can I make it absolutely clear that my desire for a change of leadership has nothing to do with my 250/1 bet on PM Sunak with Ladbrokes

    You might be getting winnings by end of the day!
  • For the avoidance of doubt can I make it absolutely clear that my desire for a change of leadership has nothing to do with my 250/1 bet on PM Sunak with Ladbrokes

    I'd like to state the fact I may appear to be enjoying Boris Johnson's difficulties is absolutely nothing to do with my £5,000 winnings.
    Or 4 sq m of wallpaper to the PM.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/jan/19/focus-on-phonics-to-teach-reading-is-failing-children-says-landmark-study

    A landmark study has described the way primary school pupils are taught to read in England as “uninformed and failing children”, calling on the government to drop its narrow focus on phonics.

    Researchers at UCL’s Institute of Education say the current emphasis on synthetic phonics, which teaches children to read by helping them to identify and pronounce sounds which they blend together to make words, is “not underpinned by the latest evidence”.


    What does the PB brains trust think of phonics? I learnt to read this way (early 90s) and so is my niece. There's obviously only so far it can go, but it seems a sensible way to get kids started.

    It's interesting, looking back, that there used to be a lot of love for phonics...

    2005: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4487734.stm
    2006: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4794696.stm
    2007: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6756295.stm

    Not sure what changed...

    Already discussed upthread - and indeed in the article you link:
    ...Wyse went on: “For the first time in more than 100 years we see that a balanced-instruction approach to the teaching of reading is no longer the norm in England. The majority of teachers are now reporting the more frequent use of the narrower synthetic phonics approach.

    “Our view is that the system doesn’t give teachers enough flexibility to do what they think is best for their pupils, nor to encourage pupils to enjoy reading.”

    Co-author Prof Alice Bradbury said research had showed that teachers feel pressured by the compulsory screening check. Results from a survey of 2,200 teachers found synthetic phonics was their main focus for teaching reading.

    All but one of the 936 comments from the survey were negative about the screening test, while one teacher described having to “live and breathe phonics” and another appealed for “reflection on the mass of skills involved in reading rather than solely focusing on phonics”.

    “Policy changes have led to changes in teaching, including more time being spent on phonics, the separation of phonics from other literacy activities, and a reliance on a small number of phonics schemes,” said Bradbury. “This is an important shift in how children are taught to read, a shift which is not underpinned by the research evidence.”...


    There is nothing wrong with phonics per se - the problem is the Gove insistence that it underpin all teaching of reading. His dogmatism has done a great deal of damage in education.
    Interesting. A friend of my sister's moved her daughter from one primary school to another recently. The girl is in year 1 and the school she was at was a complete mess. Apparently, it was something to do with them introducing a new method of teaching that sounded a lot like doing no teaching at all! (learn through play or something).
    A school I know of is apparently like that (not my little 'uns). They apparently do not have usual desks and chairs, and are very freeform in the teaching, moving between classrooms freely. The school gets quite good results, and a couple of parents who send their kids there love it.

    However: many of the kids from that school have problems when moving to the much more stringent routine of secondary school.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    TOPPING said:

    GENERAL PB TIP ON VANILLA

    If you mention someone on vanilla then for some reason there is a paragraph break next. To avoid this you need to start a paragraph after that one.

    For example @HYUFD is not a proper Tory.

    Great example.
    However, the correct expression is HYUFD is not a real Tory.
    If we are complaining about formatting, using italics now throws in an extra linefeed. The villain appears to be the CSS pseudo-element ::after being applied to the closing tag
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited January 2022

    For the avoidance of doubt can I make it absolutely clear that my desire for a change of leadership has nothing to do with my 250/1 bet on PM Sunak with Ladbrokes

    I have £100 winnings due to appear as soon as Boris is replaced as PM (fully green book). My reason for wanting him gone is not the meal out that will buy me but the removal of someone without a plan, who is utterly unable to make decisions and is frankly an embarrassment.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    Yeah but I bet you don’t watch Tik Tok or YouTube for hours a day.
    Don't know about Tik Tok but you can watch YouTube all day for free on a PC or smart tv.

    A rise in mobile phone costs might hit the mobile obsessives (predominantly the young ?) hard but will not be noticed by millions of others.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    I thought @HYUFD was the only Tory in the village?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    The big divide is between between people who download video on the go and those who use Wifi at home to per-download.
    There's also a big divide between those in long distance relationships and those who have younger children and those who do not.

    A lot of my data usage is facetiming/video calling to see the people I love.

    I say that as someone who pre plague used 500GB a month in data.
    My wife's family is mostly in Peru - so lots of WhatsApp* and other forms of video calls.

    She does them only from WifI/hardline internet connections - the idea of doing it on mobile data simply seems wrong to her. When she (and I) started using mobile data, it was extremely limited and expensive.

    The children on the other hand, use mobile data until they run out....

    *Trying to convert her over to Signal
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    A very strange time to decide to take on the BBC-the most respected news organisation in the country. Most likely just ham fistedness by Johnson and his backers but it's great to see the BBC's bite returning. They've been cowed by this government for too long and as a result were becoming insipid.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited January 2022

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    I rarely get over 1GB/month, and that's only if I watch YouTube whilst out and about. It just shows how people can have very different use cases for their devices

    A friends gf (now ex...) got through over £100 of texts per month in the early 2000s. Some months it was much more.
    Last month I got through 290GB. The plan rolls over on the 3rd of each month and as of this morning I am up to 171GB
    Wow. I didn't think that would even be possible with how much wifi there is available.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    Yeah but I bet you don’t watch Tik Tok or YouTube for hours a day.
    I certainly don’t touch TikTok (one of very few things Donald Trump had a good point about), and YouTube is reserved for the ipad on the wifi. HD video is watched on, funnily enough, the massive HD telly rather than a tiny phone screen.

    Obviously this child of the 1970s is getting old :disappointed:
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Roger said:

    A very strange time to decide to take on the BBC-the most respected news organisation in the country. Most likely just ham fistedness by Johnson and his backers but it's great to see the BBC's bite returning. They've been cowed by this government for too long and as a result were becoming insipid.

    The BBC is not just a news organisation.

    The license fee is not popular. Far from it.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    This F...ing Tory Party are completely shameless. On Newsnight ... 'He didn't know it was against the rules that he himself had announced that week!!' These shameless sycophants are not even funny anymore

    The ones that bother me are the ones that claim to have only just noticed that Boris is unfit to be prime minister. He has always been dodgy and done a lot of harm.

    The problem we have is that so far this century, each PM has been worse than the last. Goodness knows who comes next.
    Funny you should say that.

    ‘Boris Johnson's replacement will likely be worse’

    In the meantime, Johnson will attempt to save his skin with a raft of right-wing populist policies designed to appeal to the pro-Brexit readers of the frothing Mail and Express who make up the Conservatives' core support. Just as happened with Brexit, everyone in the UK will have to suffer the consequences of the Conservatives acting as though the interests of the state are subordinate to the interests of the Conservative party, which is precisely what passes for a constitution in the UK allows them to do.

    We are in for further restrictions on the right to protest, the continuing demonisation of migrants and asylum seekers as convenient scapegoats, and yet more attacks upon any remaining institutions in the UK which are capable of restraining the wilder excesses of the Conservatives. The next Tory leader is likely to be even worse, he or she will embrace a full-throated Thatcherism, and emboldened by a surge in public support in England during their honeymoon period, will seek a snap election which could entrench Tory rule for decades to come.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/19857127.real-scottish-politics-boris-johnsons-replacement-will-likely-worse/

    There’s a lot of wild extrapolation in there. Particularly the “surge in public support in England” and “snap election” bit. Doesn’t seem quite right.
    CON MAJ is just 2/1. Perfectly feasible. If it hits 3/1 a lot of people will be eager buyers.
    On Betfair a Tory majority government is the favourite at 15/8 according to Oddschecker. Lab minority look value at 3/1.

    Exactly. Scots cannot simply discount Con Maj and another decade of being ruled by the Tories, despite them losing every election in our country since the 1950s.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    Yeah but I bet you don’t watch Tik Tok or YouTube for hours a day.
    ... while not in range of a wifi you can use.

    Who the hell needs to do that in this day and age?
    My girlfriend uses many gigabytes a day listening to Spotify at work because they’re not allowed to have personal devices on WiFi
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    For the avoidance of doubt can I make it absolutely clear that my desire for a change of leadership has nothing to do with my 250/1 bet on PM Sunak with Ladbrokes

    You might be getting winnings by end of the day!
    Hope not. I’m enjoying this
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    boulay said:

    Jonathan said:

    Curious challenge for Starmer today. How should he play it? Boris will come out swinging, desperately looking for a win. A dead, forward defensive shot, bat might be the right thing to do. Somber questions about Ukraine, deaths and the detail about the cost of living, anything to deny Boris oxygen. Finish one or two short to avoid Boris getting his sound bites in?

    If I were Starmer I would try and craft a “when did you last beat your wife” type question on Parties and then switch the rest of the questions to really detailed technical questions re inflation.

    The first question gets Boris tied up with excuses and maybe hangs himself re parties. By then changing to really detailed technical questions re inflation it should unbalance Boris as I imagine he would be prepped for Parties but then useless at detail re inflation/economy etc and show that not only is he in a mess with Parties but also doesn’t have a clue about technical detail that’s crucial to most of the country - so shifty AND useless.

    That’s presuming Starmer wants him gone….
    I'm not sure he does now, but the Tory leadership isn't really in his hands.

    I'd make the theme "while the Conservatives are consumed in their own civil war, hard-working families face rising costs".

    I'd also get some jabs in at key Tory leadership contenders. If Sunak isn't there, that's an open goal, if he is then "nice to see the Chancellor turning up this time..." For Truss, "Surprised to see the Foreign Secretary here. Hasn't she got a 'fizz with Liz' party - or work event as the PM calls them - to organise?"
    Yes, I agree - very tempting to keep hammering away at parties, but I think the public boredom threshold has been reached and there are points to be won on the theme "While the Tories squabble about lies and parties, the economy is burning".

    I note the Guardian quote today from an anti-Johnson MP: "there are about 20 letters, “some sent, some in draft”. That doesn't sound as though the ballot will be triggered before Sue Gray's report, if it's coming as soon as Friday, as some predict.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    Yeah but I bet you don’t watch Tik Tok or YouTube for hours a day.
    Don't know about Tik Tok but you can watch YouTube all day for free on a PC or smart tv.

    A rise in mobile phone costs might hit the mobile obsessives (predominantly the young ?) hard but will not be noticed by millions of others.
    This is so out of touch with how people consume content these days. Not even just the “young”.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Massive day for Starmer.

    Land enough blows on Johnson and more letters will go in.

    Or does he row back, hoping they keep the man who will shortly be the most unpopular PM since polling began?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    Yeah but I bet you don’t watch Tik Tok or YouTube for hours a day.
    ... while not in range of a wifi you can use.

    Who the hell needs to do that in this day and age?
    My girlfriend uses many gigabytes a day listening to Spotify at work because they’re not allowed to have personal devices on WiFi
    Wise policy by employer. Information security is a huge problem for all organisations.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    The big divide is between between people who download video on the go and those who use Wifi at home to per-download.
    There's also a big divide between those in long distance relationships and those who have younger children and those who do not.

    A lot of my data usage is facetiming/video calling to see the people I love.

    I say that as someone who pre plague used 500GB a month in data.
    My wife's family is mostly in Peru - so lots of WhatsApp* and other forms of video calls.

    She does them only from WifI/hardline internet connections - the idea of doing it on mobile data simply seems wrong to her. When she (and I) started using mobile data, it was extremely limited and expensive.

    The children on the other hand, use mobile data until they run out....

    *Trying to convert her over to Signal
    I worry just how much data my eldest would use if he wasn't required to keep his mobile in his locker for most of the school day.
  • stjohn said:

    On the subject of an acting/caretaker/interim PM, this is interesting and useful from Wikipedia.


    Despite refusing "...to discuss a hypothetical situation" with BBC News in 2011,[15] the Cabinet Office is said to have said in 2006:[16]

    There is no single protocol setting out all of the possible implications. However, the general constitutional position is as set out below. There can be no automatic assumption about who The Queen would ask to act as caretaker Prime Minister in the event of the death of the Prime Minister. The decision is for her under the Royal Prerogative. However, there are some key guiding principles. The Queen would probably be looking for a very senior member of the Government (not necessarily a Commons Minister since this would be a short-term appointment). If there was a recognised deputy to the Prime Minister, used to acting on his behalf in his absences, this could be an important factor. Also important would be the question of who was likely to be in contention to take over long-term as Prime Minister. If the most senior member of the Government was him or herself a contender for the role of Prime Minister, it might be that The Queen would invite a slightly less senior non-contender. In these circumstances, her private secretary would probably take soundings, via the Cabinet Secretary, of members of the Cabinet, to ensure that The Queen invited someone who would be acceptable to the Cabinet to act as their chair during the caretaker period. Once the Party had elected a new leader, that person would, of course, be invited to take over as Prime Minister.

    So looking for the most senior non contenders. Doesnt rule out many, would be much easier to find a no mark contender.

    Will it be Dorries or Shapps!?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    The issue isn't protest. Or at least it shouldn't be. The issue ought to be disruption. We can all be high-minded about rights to free expression and assembly but extinction rebellion and insulate Britain DID cause major disruption i.e harm. People have a right to be angry about that. The Supreme Court might have exploded a legal grenade with its verdict that a certain level of disruption had to be tolerated in a free society. Well what does that mean exactly?

    Many liberty lovers would have applauded that but what if the consequence is the government introducing more draconian laws as a counter measure? Activists judges might actually be their own worst enemy in this. Of course I don't have any confidence in Patel who seems like a minister playing to the gallery in search of favourable tabloid headlines. But one has to understand why she has found such fertile territory.

    We already have plenty of laws to deal with disruption and public order offences.
    I remember an interesting situation.

    Way back in the 80s, the police and intelligence services used their infiltration of the NI terrorist groups and various criminal gangs to cultivate "Supergrasses" - people who who would give evidence against the really big fish in open court. Basically the American system - "You are looking at life. What have you got to say to help yourself".

    A bunch of noble, brilliant QCs fought desperately against such a terrible system. They managed to get it stuck down with rulings that the evidence was inadmissible.

    So the police, instead of catching armed robbers *before* their "jobs", lay in wait for them. And shot them dead.

    The Intelligence services did the same to the IRA - it was called "shoot to kill'.

    The noble, brilliant QCs complained about that, IIRC.

    But they never seemed to admit that there was a connection to their actions.

    The problem with constructing a constitution by legal/judicial activism* is Democracy.

    We have had centuries of telling people that voting is the ultimate power, that their elected representatives in Parliament can do *anything*.

    Something will have to give.....

    *The creation, in effect, of new law, via judicial judgement, of new meanings in old laws
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stakeknife-Britains-Secret-Agents-Ireland/dp/0862788439

    Is a very good book which it sounds like you have read (or perhaps you wrote it...)

    Explains a lot also about 14 Int and FRU whatever the hell they were.
    I a just a fool who reads too much. And remembers everything except things that would make me rich. If I could photocopy law books into my brain the way I can remember obscure details of 19th Cent ship construction...

    Anyway... Yes. A brilliant example of state adaption to legal challenge. The Government lawyers were horrified by the earlier suggestions by the security services to handle it as an intelligence war. Hence the super grass efforts. When that was er... shot down, they went ahead

    Due to bugs and other technical intelligence, the security services turned a number of very high ranking terrorists. Since they couldn't be used for trials, they were used to plant more bugs - simply getting them to report on what they knew of upcoming attacks would have got them caught very quickly.

    So the question became - what do you do with this pile of intelligence? The answer was simple, really. You act on *some* of it. Deliberately framing particular people who *aren't* your agents - you act on what only the "framed" person would know. Eventually the internal security mob in the terrorist organisation catches on, and murders your fall guy. It helps when the internal intelligence outfit is being run by one of your agents....

    The interesting wrinkle was towards the end of the conflict. The people "framed" as being British agents turned out, curiously often, to be hardliners against the proposed peace process.......
    By the end it was easier to work out who wasn't an agent of some type.
    Indeed - which may or may not have been part of the plan - it caused many of the terrorists to become disillusioned with terrorism.

    Join up to fight the Evul Brits or the Evul Catholics, great. Join up to murder your own side in a never ending series of hunt-the-tout, with the added fun of being accused of being a tout... not so much.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    @Sandpit in 2018 the average monthly phone bill, according to OFCOM was £45.60 per month. It’s probably higher now.

    We’ve had this debate before and how some networks separate the phone payment plan and the phone plan, but not all by any stretch of the imagination.

    So your “couple of quid” is actually £5, which is not insignificant.

    Maybe it’s just mine that’s a tiny phone bill then!

    Tesco Mobile charges £7.50 for unlimited calls, SMS and 2GB/month data. If you prefer 10GB data, it’s £11 a month.
    https://www.tescomobile.com/shop/sim-only-deals/sim-only-contracts
    2GB of data is nowt. Even 10GB is fairly low.
    I work in IT, and use about 500MB/month of data on average.
    Yeah but I bet you don’t watch Tik Tok or YouTube for hours a day.
    ... while not in range of a wifi you can use.

    Who the hell needs to do that in this day and age?
    My girlfriend uses many gigabytes a day listening to Spotify at work because they’re not allowed to have personal devices on WiFi
    Wise policy by employer. Information security is a huge problem for all organisations.
    Well yeah, but the point was re. WiFi usage vs mobile data.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Looks like outdoor winter sports will be pretty much non-existent by the end of this century. Swedish meteorological research shows that most Scandinavian resorts, training facilities and competition venues will be pretty much unusable by 2100.

    The Alps and Scotland can forget it.

    Alps gone by 2050 apparently, Scotland has been fucked since about 1990

    I know people my age always perceive the world going to hell in a handcraft but this time it really is
    Disagree. Scotland has had some tremendous winters in recent years, but when the time comes for current infrastructure (lifts etc) to be replaced, it is profoundly unlikely that the finance boffins will judge it to be a wise use of capital.

    It was fun while it lasted. All my children and my sister’s children are great skiers, but I suspect that the next generation are going to have to get there kicks elsewhere, eg windsurfing.
    But that time has come and gone, I think the rail thingy at Aviemore/Cairngorm was decommissioned decades ago, no?

    Reliable cold and snow is the key.
    There is a heck of a lot more sport infrastructure in the Scottish hills than just the rail thingy. There are 5 resorts with extensive lift and slope networks. As long as the infrastructure lasts, fine. But I cannot see it being replaced or extended.
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