1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Even without the lockdown restrictions is it conceivable that 100 people could have a party in what is effectively the prime minister's back garden without the prime minister being informed and security issues being considered ?
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Who would have thought it? Signal your plan to blame it all on the Civil Service, and they rally round? Mystifying.
Yep. I was mystified when Sunday Times basically reported that Johnson's big plan is to dump all the shit on the civil servants and spads and clear the whole lot of them out asap.
Can't think of better circumstances for even more leaks, photos, emails and so on.
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
We are not going to send troops. Probably some members of the Hereford Boat Club will be wandering about Ukraine, but not more than that. Simply a matter of numbers, what is possible and what the Ukrainians need. The Ukrainians have tons of troops. And have been fighting fairly steadily in a semi-hot war over the past couple of years.
A lot of anti-tank weapons, properly used, could make it messy for the Russians. The Americans are also arming them at a rate of knots.
The Ukrainians are going to fight no matter what.
Arming the Ukrainians is about them killing and maiming more Russians if they invade. This might be partially a deterrent - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham was a big thing in Russia. It might be a token. It might be a big help.
It also means that we are not directly involved - think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state.
If we take the German approach, and sell them to the Russians, then it will be a question of what next, on Putins shopping list.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Who would have thought it? Signal your plan to blame it all on the Civil Service, and they rally round? Mystifying.
Yep. I was mystified when Sunday Times basically reported that Johnson's big plan is to dump all the shit on the civil servants and spads and clear the whole lot of them out asap.
Can't think of better circumstances for even more leaks, photos, emails and so on.
Think about how Boris got into this mess, he did the same to Big Dom....and then Big Dom waited, spending his lockdown time watching War Games and then unloaded global thermo-nuclear war.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Who would have thought it? Signal your plan to blame it all on the Civil Service, and they rally round? Mystifying.
Yep. I was mystified when Sunday Times basically reported that Johnson's big plan is to dump all the shit on the civil servants and spads and clear the whole lot of them out asap.
Can't think of better circumstances for even more leaks, photos, emails and so on.
Think about how Boris got into this mess, he did the same to Big Dom....and then Big Dom waited, spending his lockdown time watching War Games and then unloaded global thermo-nuclear war.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Who would have thought it? Signal your plan to blame it all on the Civil Service, and they rally round? Mystifying.
Yep. I was mystified when Sunday Times basically reported that Johnson's big plan is to dump all the shit on the civil servants and spads and clear the whole lot of them out asap.
Can't think of better circumstances for even more leaks, photos, emails and so on.
Think about how Boris got into this mess, he did the same to Big Dom....and then Big Dom waited, spending his lockdown time watching War Games and then unloaded global thermo-nuclear war.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Who would have thought it? Signal your plan to blame it all on the Civil Service, and they rally round? Mystifying.
Yep. I was mystified when Sunday Times basically reported that Johnson's big plan is to dump all the shit on the civil servants and spads and clear the whole lot of them out asap.
Can't think of better circumstances for even more leaks, photos, emails and so on.
Think about how Boris got into this mess, he did the same to Big Dom....and then Big Dom waited, spending his lockdown time watching War Games and then unloaded global thermo-nuclear war.
The only way to win is not to play.
Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess?
Go is better. And thus the circle of PB is complete.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Who would have thought it? Signal your plan to blame it all on the Civil Service, and they rally round? Mystifying.
Yep. I was mystified when Sunday Times basically reported that Johnson's big plan is to dump all the shit on the civil servants and spads and clear the whole lot of them out asap.
Can't think of better circumstances for even more leaks, photos, emails and so on.
Think about how Boris got into this mess, he did the same to Big Dom....and then Big Dom waited, spending his lockdown time watching War Games and then unloaded global thermo-nuclear war.
The only way to win is not to play.
Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess?
I want to play "Theaterwide Biotoxic and Chemical Warfare"
Reasons are yet clear, but two UK C-17 with military aid for Ukraine avoiding German airspace will give a devastating signal to Central and Eastern European allies.
Brexit is dead. You know what else is dead? Levelling up.
Boris doesn’t care enough to focus on the details, and Rishi is actively hostile to it.
IPPR North’s report today is brutal. - Most Levelling Up promises are broken - Paltry new spend of £32 pp v £413 in austerity cuts - 95p in every £1 spent by central government four years ago is now 96p. - Jobs and proverty data show north/south divide is getting worse.
I am not sure any of this electorally salient, and the “North” and “Midlands” don’t seem to vote in their own economic interests, but it is worth noting.
And this is why Sunak is the wrong choice. I hope he does not get the role.
"Levelling up" as an ambition was about the only one of Boris's promises that was remotely worthwhile. A pity if even the promise of it disappears.
Boris Johnson continues to be incredibly lucky IMO. There are probably enough Tory MPs wanting to remove him right now, but it won't happen because the potential leadership challengers wouldn't want to take over just before a potentially bad set of local election results in May. But that means Johnson has a chance of getting out of jail by performing unexpectedly well (relative to expectations) in those same elections. A very fortunate set of circumstances for him once again.
Boris Johnson continues to be incredibly lucky IMO. There are probably enough Tory MPs wanting to remove him right now, but it won't happen because the potential leadership challengers wouldn't want to take over just before a potentially bad set of local election results in May. But that means Johnson has a chance of getting out of jail by performing unexpectedly well (relative to expectations) in those same elections. A very fortunate set of circumstances for him once again.
Reasons are yet clear, but two UK C-17 with military aid for Ukraine avoiding German airspace will give a devastating signal to Central and Eastern European allies.
Clearances for military aircraft are an absolutely pain in the dick and routes are often planned to need fewer rather than more. That's not to say that Germany didn't refuse - I don't know.
Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling (as tories like to call it).
A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.
Ukraine can win, but only by being asymmetrical. Large formations would play into the Russians hands, after all the Ukrainan steppe is ideal for such things. Small moving bands, fighting in the cities and moving quickly could well turn an invasion into a running sore, and not one that the Russian conscripts would like.
That was pretty much the Chechen plan from 2000 on. It didn't go that well for them.
Ukraine has a much bigger population, and will get both weapons and intelligence from the West. The Chechens had mountains and fanaticism, but not much else.
I don't think Russia can sustain a long war, though could probably complete the Donbas annexation and perhaps expand it a little, but not much more.
The Russians "won" in Chechnya by destroying everything. Not sure even the East Politics types in Germany would stomach that in the Ukraine.
More to the point, would the Russian public? They obviously had no qualms about annihilating the Muslim Chechens, but they might not be so happy about the same being done to the Ukrainians, who are culturally and linguistically about as close to the Russians as it’s possible to get, except for the Belarussians. Of course, Putin doesn’t have to worry about public opinion as a Western government does, but even he might find there are limits to what his people will accept.
If Putin goes in, he’ll be looking to secure the Russian-speaking crescent around the east and south of Ukraine, but he’ll leave the Ukrainian-speaking north and west as a rump.
Boris Johnson continues to be incredibly lucky IMO. There are probably enough Tory MPs wanting to remove him right now, but it won't happen because the potential leadership challengers wouldn't want to take over just before a potentially bad set of local election results in May. But that means Johnson has a chance of getting out of jail by performing unexpectedly well (relative to expectations) in those same elections. A very fortunate set of circumstances for him once again.
Reasons are yet clear, but two UK C-17 with military aid for Ukraine avoiding German airspace will give a devastating signal to Central and Eastern European allies.
Clearances for military aircraft are an absolutely pain in the dick and routes are often planned to need fewer rather than more. That's not to say that Germany didn't refuse - I don't know.
Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling (as tories like to call it).
A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.
Ukraine can win, but only by being asymmetrical. Large formations would play into the Russians hands, after all the Ukrainan steppe is ideal for such things. Small moving bands, fighting in the cities and moving quickly could well turn an invasion into a running sore, and not one that the Russian conscripts would like.
That was pretty much the Chechen plan from 2000 on. It didn't go that well for them.
Ukraine has a much bigger population, and will get both weapons and intelligence from the West. The Chechens had mountains and fanaticism, but not much else.
I don't think Russia can sustain a long war, though could probably complete the Donbas annexation and perhaps expand it a little, but not much more.
The Russians "won" in Chechnya by destroying everything. Not sure even the East Politics types in Germany would stomach that in the Ukraine.
More to the point, would the Russian public? They obviously had no qualms about annihilating the Muslim Chechens, but they might not be so happy about the same being done to the Ukrainians, who are culturally and linguistically about as close to the Russians as it’s possible to get, except for the Belarussians. Of course, Putin doesn’t have to worry about public opinion as a Western government does, but even he might find there are limits to what his people will accept.
If Putin goes in, he’ll be looking to secure the Russian-speaking crescent around the east and south of Ukraine, but he’ll leave the Ukrainian-speaking north and west as a rump.
Maybe. He doesn’t need to invade “western Ukraine”, just degrade its military enough for it to come to terms
Reasons are yet clear, but two UK C-17 with military aid for Ukraine avoiding German airspace will give a devastating signal to Central and Eastern European allies.
Brexit is dead. You know what else is dead? Levelling up.
Boris doesn’t care enough to focus on the details, and Rishi is actively hostile to it.
IPPR North’s report today is brutal. - Most Levelling Up promises are broken - Paltry new spend of £32 pp v £413 in austerity cuts - 95p in every £1 spent by central government four years ago is now 96p. - Jobs and proverty data show north/south divide is getting worse.
I am not sure any of this electorally salient, and the “North” and “Midlands” don’t seem to vote in their own economic interests, but it is worth noting.
And this is why Sunak is the wrong choice. I hope he does not get the role.
"Levelling up" as an ambition was about the only one of Boris's promises that was remotely worthwhile. A pity if even the promise of it disappears.
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
We are not going to send troops. Probably some members of the Hereford Boat Club will be wandering about Ukraine, but not more than that. Simply a matter of numbers, what is possible and what the Ukrainians need. The Ukrainians have tons of troops. And have been fighting fairly steadily in a semi-hot war over the past couple of years.
A lot of anti-tank weapons, properly used, could make it messy for the Russians. The Americans are also arming them at a rate of knots.
The Ukrainians are going to fight no matter what.
Arming the Ukrainians is about them killing and maiming more Russians if they invade. This might be partially a deterrent - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham was a big thing in Russia. It might be a token. It might be a big help.
It also means that we are not directly involved - think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state.
If we take the German approach, and sell them to the Russians, then it will be a question of what next, on Putins shopping list.
Wasn’t it also the case in the recent Armenia-Azerbaijan spat that the Russians found that the arms they’d supplied to the Armenians didn’t do very well against the NATO-spec stuff the Turks gave the Azeris?
Reasons are yet clear, but two UK C-17 with military aid for Ukraine avoiding German airspace will give a devastating signal to Central and Eastern European allies.
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
We are not going to send troops. Probably some members of the Hereford Boat Club will be wandering about Ukraine, but not more than that. Simply a matter of numbers, what is possible and what the Ukrainians need. The Ukrainians have tons of troops. And have been fighting fairly steadily in a semi-hot war over the past couple of years.
A lot of anti-tank weapons, properly used, could make it messy for the Russians. The Americans are also arming them at a rate of knots.
The Ukrainians are going to fight no matter what.
Arming the Ukrainians is about them killing and maiming more Russians if they invade. This might be partially a deterrent - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham was a big thing in Russia. It might be a token. It might be a big help.
It also means that we are not directly involved - think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state.
If we take the German approach, and sell them to the Russians, then it will be a question of what next, on Putins shopping list.
Wasn’t it also the case in the recent Armenia-Azerbaijan spat that the Russians found that the arms they’d supplied to the Armenians didn’t do very well against the NATO-spec stuff the Turks gave the Azeris?
I was under the impression the main reason the Azeris beat the Armenians was the use of drones (supplied by Turkey) in anti-armour operations.
A lot of anti-tank weapons, properly used, could make it messy for the Russians. The Americans are also arming them at a rate of knots.
We destroyed a grand total of two Iraqi tanks with ATGMs across both Gulf Wars.
Hezbollah have destroyed five Israeli tanks over about 15 years despite firing (literally) thousands of ATGM rounds at them.
The two British C-17 loads of NLAW aren't going to make any difference beyond the politics of the gesture.
Azerbaijan and Turkey recently showed us what the gold standard in anti armour warfare looks like and it didn't involve people running around with short range shoulder launched ATGMs.
Boris Johnson continues to be incredibly lucky IMO. There are probably enough Tory MPs wanting to remove him right now, but it won't happen because the potential leadership challengers wouldn't want to take over just before a potentially bad set of local election results in May. But that means Johnson has a chance of getting out of jail by performing unexpectedly well (relative to expectations) in those same elections. A very fortunate set of circumstances for him once again.
🙂. You keep posting this, over and over, but there is a flaw in it.
The new leader bounce could help the elections be not such a bad set.
Even if it was, they’d just blame it on Boris, nor would they get the blame, so new into the post, how can it ALL be their fault after Boris so clearly drove into the ditch.
Even if there is no bounce as there has been before, it was terrible results, and they got all the blame for Boris driving it into the ditch - all a bit hypothetical and contrary to proven history - they now have the gig and can get on with it, so it’s hardly that off putting!
Sorry, you need far stronger reasoning he survive till May than that Andy.
Boris Johnson continues to be incredibly lucky IMO. There are probably enough Tory MPs wanting to remove him right now, but it won't happen because the potential leadership challengers wouldn't want to take over just before a potentially bad set of local election results in May. But that means Johnson has a chance of getting out of jail by performing unexpectedly well (relative to expectations) in those same elections. A very fortunate set of circumstances for him once again.
I don't think any of the leadership contenders will worry for a single second about taking over just before the local elections. A better than expected result is something for which they can take credit. A terrible result is one for which they can blame their predecessor. Neither is massively important - it's a local election, will lead some headlines on 6th May, and that's it. The British public are not PB.com - they are not obsessive on that sort of thing.
I mean it's important in that it determines control of quite a few significant local authorities, but that's true whoever is in Number 10. It won't define a new PM's term in office.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Even without the lockdown restrictions is it conceivable that 100 people could have a party in what is effectively the prime minister's back garden without the prime minister being informed and security issues being considered ?
Whilst I get your point I thought the invite went to 100 but only 30 turned up. Which means there are 70 civil servants/politicians who either had more sense or are now thanking their lucky stars they really did have something more pressing they had to do.
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
We are not going to send troops. Probably some members of the Hereford Boat Club will be wandering about Ukraine, but not more than that. Simply a matter of numbers, what is possible and what the Ukrainians need. The Ukrainians have tons of troops. And have been fighting fairly steadily in a semi-hot war over the past couple of years.
A lot of anti-tank weapons, properly used, could make it messy for the Russians. The Americans are also arming them at a rate of knots.
The Ukrainians are going to fight no matter what.
Arming the Ukrainians is about them killing and maiming more Russians if they invade. This might be partially a deterrent - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham was a big thing in Russia. It might be a token. It might be a big help.
It also means that we are not directly involved - think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state.
If we take the German approach, and sell them to the Russians, then it will be a question of what next, on Putins shopping list.
Wasn’t it also the case in the recent Armenia-Azerbaijan spat that the Russians found that the arms they’d supplied to the Armenians didn’t do very well against the NATO-spec stuff the Turks gave the Azeris?
I was under the impression the main reason the Azeris beat the Armenians was the use of drones (supplied by Turkey) in anti-armour operations.
Drones played a part - but as I understand it the Azeris used them as part of a hit and run, attritional style effort - instead of a hard frontline, letting the Armenians drive forward and then hammering them when they could.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Who would have thought it? Signal your plan to blame it all on the Civil Service, and they rally round? Mystifying.
Yep. I was mystified when Sunday Times basically reported that Johnson's big plan is to dump all the shit on the civil servants and spads and clear the whole lot of them out asap.
Can't think of better circumstances for even more leaks, photos, emails and so on.
Think about how Boris got into this mess, he did the same to Big Dom....and then Big Dom waited, spending his lockdown time watching War Games and then unloaded global thermo-nuclear war.
Can Bozzatron mix? I find it hard to imagine him laying down some nagging prog house like some overweight version of Sasha.
Boris Johnson continues to be incredibly lucky IMO. There are probably enough Tory MPs wanting to remove him right now, but it won't happen because the potential leadership challengers wouldn't want to take over just before a potentially bad set of local election results in May. But that means Johnson has a chance of getting out of jail by performing unexpectedly well (relative to expectations) in those same elections. A very fortunate set of circumstances for him once again.
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Even without the lockdown restrictions is it conceivable that 100 people could have a party in what is effectively the prime minister's back garden without the prime minister being informed and security issues being considered ?
Whilst I get your point I thought the invite went to 100 but only 30 turned up. Which means there are 70 civil servants/politicians who either had more sense or are now thanking their lucky stars they really did have something more pressing they had to do.
I do find the low turnout quite interesting. Given that there was sod all else to do, it does rather suggest that two-thirds of guests thought, "What the actual f***? You're kidding - not touching that with a bargepole".
There has been a lot of talk about a "culture" at Downing Street in recent days. I doubt Sue Gray will cover this in her report, but it does seem to me quite possible that this was not in fact a majority position that Johnson failed to rein in, but a minority position he helped create and that most steered clear of.
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
Anybody here seen my old friend Abraham? Can you tell me where he's gone? He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young You know I just looked around and he's gone
Anybody here seen my old friend John? Can you tell me where he's gone? He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young I just looked around and he's gone
Anybody here seen my old friend Martin? Can you tell me where he's gone? He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young I just looked around and he's gone
Didn't you love the things that they stood for? Didn't they try to find some good for you and me? And we'll be free Some day soon, it's gonna be one day
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby? Can you tell me where he's gone? I thought I saw him walkin' up over the hill With Abraham, Martin, and John
It is pure joy to observe the collapse of the crooked clown from overseas.
Pure joy.
Rishi can probably steady the ship for a while but at the end of the day the whole Tory party are complicit in enabling the debauch of government and need a long period in Opposition for the sake of the country.
Including one R Sunak;
"The Tories are in deep peril. Only Boris Johnson can save us" Rishi Sunak, Robert Jenrick, Oliver Dowden
Their utility against a determined Russian attack might be relatively limited (as is the current number Ukraine possesses).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/15/ukraine-russia-drones-turkey/ … But while the drones were a “game-changer” in other battles between countries with less sophisticated military hardware, it’s unlikely they would make much of a difference against Russia, Lee said. Russia’s Defense Ministry has already posted images of training exercises for how to counter Bayraktar TB2 drones. “If Ukraine gets into a fight with Russia, Russia will destroy them,” Lee said. “Russia could shoot them down, or even before that, they can destroy the airfields where TB2s operate, or they can destroy the ground control station.”…
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
The Ukrainians will fight, because it's their country.
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
The Ukrainians will fight, because it's their country.
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
Yeah I do understand the point you are making. But at the end of the day though when the final whistle goes everyonecshakes hands, and 70 years later we are all proudly posing in our German and Japanese cars (because they won the war against our car industry).
Don’t you ever thinking though It’s not a paintballing event. People will be trying to live their lives in the proxy war zone. What about them? They will turn into refugees. We will have to deflect them away with our sonar weapons. Why do we do such counterintuitive things to our own security and influence have all these proxy wars? Is proxy wars really last resort? Why don’t we have lots more peace deals?
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
The Ukrainians will fight, because it's their country.
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
Yeah I do understand the point you are making. But at the end of the day though when the final whistle goes everyonecshakes hands, and 70 years later we are all proudly posing in our German and Japanese cars (because they won the war against our car industry).
Don’t you ever thinking though It’s not a paintballing event. People will be trying to live their lives in the proxy war zone. What about them? They will turn into refugees. We will have to deflect them away with our sonar weapons. Why do we do such counterintuitive things to our own security and influence have all these proxy wars? Is proxy wars really last resort? Why don’t we have lots more peace deals?
Most wars are stupid. Historically the majority of wars were started by the side that lost. My favourite is the War of the Triple Alliance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War. As PJ O'Rourke observed, over a century later, Paraguay is one South American country that doesn't feel crowded. "We fought like madmen, because we loved our country insanely".....
The problem comes down to - what do you do when someone decides he wants to steal a country? Let him? Or fight?
And when he has stolen that one, what does he think of next? Tea, biscuits, which country next?
“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war."
Anybody here seen my old friend Abraham? Can you tell me where he's gone? He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young You know I just looked around and he's gone
Anybody here seen my old friend John? Can you tell me where he's gone? He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young I just looked around and he's gone
Anybody here seen my old friend Martin? Can you tell me where he's gone? He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young I just looked around and he's gone
Didn't you love the things that they stood for? Didn't they try to find some good for you and me? And we'll be free Some day soon, it's gonna be one day
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby? Can you tell me where he's gone? I thought I saw him walkin' up over the hill With Abraham, Martin, and John
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
The Ukrainians will fight, because it's their country.
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
Yeah I do understand the point you are making. But at the end of the day though when the final whistle goes everyonecshakes hands, and 70 years later we are all proudly posing in our German and Japanese cars (because they won the war against our car industry).
Don’t you ever thinking though It’s not a paintballing event. People will be trying to live their lives in the proxy war zone. What about them? They will turn into refugees. We will have to deflect them away with our sonar weapons. Why do we do such counterintuitive things to our own security and influence have all these proxy wars? Is proxy wars really last resort? Why don’t we have lots more peace deals?
Most wars are stupid. Historically the majority of wars were started by the side that lost. My favourite is the War of the Triple Alliance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War. As PJ O'Rourke observed, over a century later, Paraguay is one South American country that doesn't feel crowded. "We fought like madmen, because we loved our country insanely".....
The problem comes down to - what do you do when someone decides he wants to steal a country? Let him? Or fight?
And when he has stolen that one, what does he think of next? Tea, biscuits, which country next?
“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war."
So our Problems Putin, you are very sure of that. And I don’t disagree. He says it’s us. I’m not saying fascist pig bastard as Farooq poetically called him isn’t an enemy or a problem. he is. Like you said his over funded spy team and killings on our soil. But firstly is he a worthy enemy? Secondly are we addicted to proxy wars like Syria to try and thrawt his growing influence? And thirdly, we have to ask, do we encroach a bit much at times as well, making the bear agitated?
Defence is about getting the detente right? And war also comes as soft power. Like against the Chinese and Russians to an extent, have us so reliant on oil pipe lines and investment in infrastructure, and political party funding, and allowing them to own media, are we even awake to their soft power engagement?
you say Ukrainians will fight because it’s their country. But a complicated sort of country? You explained it yourself to us very well. The border, where it’s Eastern orthodox religion and Slav ethnicity, and rest lots of Catholic with polish and Lithuanian empire history is you explained yourself few weeks ago, complicated, and difficult for a peace deal.
Difficult questions.
But does a fight actually answer the difficult questions in any durable way?
And if we are keen for a bit of revenge, and it’s a proxy war, lots of geopolitical power games proxy war, is it even still that same fight trying to answer those same timeless questions?
And the people living in the “theatre” for years. 😕
Do you see what I mean?
I might look at this and regret it when sobered up, I’m shooting from the hip. Because I’m not a pacifist. Just one proxy war after another isn’t really the last resort open to us is it, in dealing with Putin? Unless you say it is.
I’m going to call it a night now. But it’s been fun 🙋♀️
Russia has started a slow departure of Russian diplomats in Ukraine. Additional Russian consulates have been told to be ready to leave, according to officials to NYT."
Anybody here seen my old friend Abraham? Can you tell me where he's gone? He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young You know I just looked around and he's gone
Anybody here seen my old friend John? Can you tell me where he's gone? He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young I just looked around and he's gone
Anybody here seen my old friend Martin? Can you tell me where he's gone? He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young I just looked around and he's gone
Didn't you love the things that they stood for? Didn't they try to find some good for you and me? And we'll be free Some day soon, it's gonna be one day
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby? Can you tell me where he's gone? I thought I saw him walkin' up over the hill With Abraham, Martin, and John
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
The Ukrainians will fight, because it's their country.
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
Yeah I do understand the point you are making. But at the end of the day though when the final whistle goes everyonecshakes hands, and 70 years later we are all proudly posing in our German and Japanese cars (because they won the war against our car industry).
Don’t you ever thinking though It’s not a paintballing event. People will be trying to live their lives in the proxy war zone. What about them? They will turn into refugees. We will have to deflect them away with our sonar weapons. Why do we do such counterintuitive things to our own security and influence have all these proxy wars? Is proxy wars really last resort? Why don’t we have lots more peace deals?
Most wars are stupid. Historically the majority of wars were started by the side that lost. My favourite is the War of the Triple Alliance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War. As PJ O'Rourke observed, over a century later, Paraguay is one South American country that doesn't feel crowded. "We fought like madmen, because we loved our country insanely".....
The problem comes down to - what do you do when someone decides he wants to steal a country? Let him? Or fight?
And when he has stolen that one, what does he think of next? Tea, biscuits, which country next?
“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war."
So our Problems Putin, you are very sure of that. And I don’t disagree. He says it’s us. I’m not saying fascist pig bastard as Farooq poetically called him isn’t an enemy or a problem. he is. Like you said his over funded spy team and killings on our soil. But firstly is he a worthy enemy? Secondly are we addicted to proxy wars like Syria to try and thrawt his growing influence? And thirdly, we have to ask, do we encroach a bit much at times as well, making the bear agitated?
Defence is about getting the detente right? And war also comes as soft power. Like against the Chinese and Russians to an extent, have us so reliant on oil pipe lines and investment in infrastructure, and political party funding, and allowing them to own media, are we even awake to their soft power engagement?
you say Ukrainians will fight because it’s their country. But a complicated sort of country? You explained it yourself to us very well. The border, where it’s Eastern orthodox religion and Slav ethnicity, and rest lots of Catholic with polish and Lithuanian empire history is you explained yourself few weeks ago, complicated, and difficult for a peace deal.
Difficult questions.
But does a fight actually answer the difficult questions in any durable way?
And if we are keen for a bit of revenge, and it’s a proxy war, lots of geopolitical power games proxy war, is it even still that same fight trying to answer those same timeless questions?
And the people living in the “theatre” for years. 😕
Do you see what I mean?
I might look at this and regret it when sobered up, I’m shooting from the hip. Because I’m not a pacifist. Just one proxy war after another isn’t really the last resort open to us is it, in dealing with Putin? Unless you say it is.
I’m going to call it a night now. But it’s been fun 🙋♀️
The answer to all of that, is - indeed.
There are guarantees in war - Death, horror, desolation.
What would make Putin stop? Saying please? Abandoning the Eastern half of Europe, and hoping that is his last demand?
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
The Ukrainians will fight, because it's their country.
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
Yeah I do understand the point you are making. But at the end of the day though when the final whistle goes everyonecshakes hands, and 70 years later we are all proudly posing in our German and Japanese cars (because they won the war against our car industry).
Don’t you ever thinking though It’s not a paintballing event. People will be trying to live their lives in the proxy war zone. What about them? They will turn into refugees. We will have to deflect them away with our sonar weapons. Why do we do such counterintuitive things to our own security and influence have all these proxy wars? Is proxy wars really last resort? Why don’t we have lots more peace deals?
Most wars are stupid. Historically the majority of wars were started by the side that lost. My favourite is the War of the Triple Alliance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War. As PJ O'Rourke observed, over a century later, Paraguay is one South American country that doesn't feel crowded. "We fought like madmen, because we loved our country insanely".....
The problem comes down to - what do you do when someone decides he wants to steal a country? Let him? Or fight?
And when he has stolen that one, what does he think of next? Tea, biscuits, which country next?
“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war."
So our Problems Putin, you are very sure of that. And I don’t disagree. He says it’s us. I’m not saying fascist pig bastard as Farooq poetically called him isn’t an enemy or a problem. he is. Like you said his over funded spy team and killings on our soil. But firstly is he a worthy enemy? Secondly are we addicted to proxy wars like Syria to try and thrawt his growing influence? And thirdly, we have to ask, do we encroach a bit much at times as well, making the bear agitated?
Defence is about getting the detente right? And war also comes as soft power. Like against the Chinese and Russians to an extent, have us so reliant on oil pipe lines and investment in infrastructure, and political party funding, and allowing them to own media, are we even awake to their soft power engagement?
you say Ukrainians will fight because it’s their country. But a complicated sort of country? You explained it yourself to us very well. The border, where it’s Eastern orthodox religion and Slav ethnicity, and rest lots of Catholic with polish and Lithuanian empire history is you explained yourself few weeks ago, complicated, and difficult for a peace deal.
Difficult questions.
But does a fight actually answer the difficult questions in any durable way?
And if we are keen for a bit of revenge, and it’s a proxy war, lots of geopolitical power games proxy war, is it even still that same fight trying to answer those same timeless questions?
And the people living in the “theatre” for years. 😕
Do you see what I mean?
I might look at this and regret it when sobered up, I’m shooting from the hip. Because I’m not a pacifist. Just one proxy war after another isn’t really the last resort open to us is it, in dealing with Putin? Unless you say it is.
I’m going to call it a night now. But it’s been fun 🙋♀️
The answer to all of that, is - indeed.
There are guarantees in war - Death, horror, desolation.
What would make Putin stop? Saying please? Abandoning the Eastern half of Europe, and hoping that is his last demand?
What makes him stop? You are talking about where do we draw the line? In our diplomacy, European security, best achieved via detente? I’ll have a go.
To start with what makes him stop, we need to know what makes him tick.
Let’s use your example. You are suggesting Ukraine and Latvia as much and the same thing, so Putin wants to grab them in much the same way for much the same reasons? But Latvia is mostly Protestant and then Catholic. Ukraine much more complicated, Orthodox, but various types. Just Orthodox, but not just Just Orthodox. We haven’t got all night. Latvians Letts it be known are Baltic, not even Western Slavs. Ukrainians are very much considered Eastern Slavs. And we learn a lesson from History, the agitating French created the Crimean War with agreement with Ottomans allowing Catholic jurisdiction over Orthodox lands. So we should know to make allowances Mother Russia gets touchy over this? Early twentieth century the Germanic’s were duffing up the southern Slavs and dragged Mother Russia into something that escalated into the First World War.
I think my paragraph, by all means take it apart, if accurate gives clear guidelines what from our standpoint are no go’s for them, and what bits are a headache for both parties.
As for Putins claim there was agreement with west NATO would not encroach, and we have broken it, I think we have been sensible not to over Ukraine. We could have signed them up for NATO and flooded place with watch towers by now. As far as I’m aware we have been careful not to provoke. In a way it could be a historic surprise if Russia doesn’t want all of Ukraine considering it Slav and orthodox make up and only wants now to partition and a cleaner border. If that really is all Russia wants, maybe Ukraine and West could negotiated border and lived in peace to see how it works. But too late now as we have clearly chosen proxy war.
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
The Ukrainians will fight, because it's their country.
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
Yeah I do understand the point you are making. But at the end of the day though when the final whistle goes everyonecshakes hands, and 70 years later we are all proudly posing in our German and Japanese cars (because they won the war against our car industry).
Don’t you ever thinking though It’s not a paintballing event. People will be trying to live their lives in the proxy war zone. What about them? They will turn into refugees. We will have to deflect them away with our sonar weapons. Why do we do such counterintuitive things to our own security and influence have all these proxy wars? Is proxy wars really last resort? Why don’t we have lots more peace deals?
Most wars are stupid. Historically the majority of wars were started by the side that lost. My favourite is the War of the Triple Alliance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War. As PJ O'Rourke observed, over a century later, Paraguay is one South American country that doesn't feel crowded. "We fought like madmen, because we loved our country insanely".....
The problem comes down to - what do you do when someone decides he wants to steal a country? Let him? Or fight?
And when he has stolen that one, what does he think of next? Tea, biscuits, which country next?
“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war."
So our Problems Putin, you are very sure of that. And I don’t disagree. He says it’s us. I’m not saying fascist pig bastard as Farooq poetically called him isn’t an enemy or a problem. he is. Like you said his over funded spy team and killings on our soil. But firstly is he a worthy enemy? Secondly are we addicted to proxy wars like Syria to try and thrawt his growing influence? And thirdly, we have to ask, do we encroach a bit much at times as well, making the bear agitated?
Defence is about getting the detente right? And war also comes as soft power. Like against the Chinese and Russians to an extent, have us so reliant on oil pipe lines and investment in infrastructure, and political party funding, and allowing them to own media, are we even awake to their soft power engagement?
you say Ukrainians will fight because it’s their country. But a complicated sort of country? You explained it yourself to us very well. The border, where it’s Eastern orthodox religion and Slav ethnicity, and rest lots of Catholic with polish and Lithuanian empire history is you explained yourself few weeks ago, complicated, and difficult for a peace deal.
Difficult questions.
But does a fight actually answer the difficult questions in any durable way?
And if we are keen for a bit of revenge, and it’s a proxy war, lots of geopolitical power games proxy war, is it even still that same fight trying to answer those same timeless questions?
And the people living in the “theatre” for years. 😕
Do you see what I mean?
I might look at this and regret it when sobered up, I’m shooting from the hip. Because I’m not a pacifist. Just one proxy war after another isn’t really the last resort open to us is it, in dealing with Putin? Unless you say it is.
I’m going to call it a night now. But it’s been fun 🙋♀️
The answer to all of that, is - indeed.
There are guarantees in war - Death, horror, desolation.
What would make Putin stop? Saying please? Abandoning the Eastern half of Europe, and hoping that is his last demand?
What makes him stop? You are talking about where do we draw the line? In our diplomacy, European security, best achieved via detente? I’ll have a go.
To start with what makes him stop, we need to know what makes him tick.
Let’s use your example. You are suggesting Ukraine and Latvia as much and the same thing, so Putin wants to grab them in much the same way for much the same reasons? But Latvia is mostly Protestant and then Catholic. Ukraine much more complicated, Orthodox, but various types. Just Orthodox, but not just Just Orthodox. We haven’t got all night. Latvians Letts it be known are Baltic, not even Western Slavs. Ukrainians are very much considered Eastern Slavs. And we learn a lesson from History, the agitating French created the Crimean War with agreement with Ottomans allowing Catholic jurisdiction over Orthodox lands. So we should know to make allowances Mother Russia gets touchy over this? Early twentieth century the Germanic’s were duffing up the southern Slavs and dragged Mother Russia into something that escalated into the First World War.
I think my paragraph, by all means take it apart, if accurate gives clear guidelines what from our standpoint are no go’s for them, and what bits are a headache for both parties.
As for Putins claim there was agreement with west NATO would not encroach, and we have broken it, I think we have been sensible not to over Ukraine. We could have signed them up for NATO and flooded place with watch towers by now. As far as I’m aware we have been careful not to provoke. In a way it could be a historic surprise if Russia doesn’t want all of Ukraine considering it Slav and orthodox make up and only wants now to partition and a cleaner border. If that really is all Russia wants, maybe Ukraine and West could negotiated border and lived in peace to see how it works. But too late now as we have clearly chosen proxy war.
Putin, according to people who have met him, is a Greater Russian Nationalist - he believes that Russia should rule the largest territorial boundaries it ever had. It is more about empires than ethnicity.
Chechnya was never Slavic, for example.
"Clean border" - no, you don't want to say things like that. That's how Stalin and Hitler thought - we get a big broom and push all the "wrong" people over "there"..... Oh dear we seem to have broken a few. Never mind.....
As to Ukraine - there is quite a bit of dispute as to how much the people "liberated" by that nice Mr Putin, already, really wanted to be back in Mother Russia.
And why does Russia get to partition Ukraine? Without going through all that bothersome asking people stuff?
Or are we back in the Age of Empires? If so, I have a list of minor territorial modifications I would like. Starting with France - I want the whole lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Troyes
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
The Ukrainians will fight, because it's their country.
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
Yeah I do understand the point you are making. But at the end of the day though when the final whistle goes everyonecshakes hands, and 70 years later we are all proudly posing in our German and Japanese cars (because they won the war against our car industry).
Don’t you ever thinking though It’s not a paintballing event. People will be trying to live their lives in the proxy war zone. What about them? They will turn into refugees. We will have to deflect them away with our sonar weapons. Why do we do such counterintuitive things to our own security and influence have all these proxy wars? Is proxy wars really last resort? Why don’t we have lots more peace deals?
Most wars are stupid. Historically the majority of wars were started by the side that lost. My favourite is the War of the Triple Alliance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War. As PJ O'Rourke observed, over a century later, Paraguay is one South American country that doesn't feel crowded. "We fought like madmen, because we loved our country insanely".....
The problem comes down to - what do you do when someone decides he wants to steal a country? Let him? Or fight?
And when he has stolen that one, what does he think of next? Tea, biscuits, which country next?
“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war."
So our Problems Putin, you are very sure of that. And I don’t disagree. He says it’s us. I’m not saying fascist pig bastard as Farooq poetically called him isn’t an enemy or a problem. he is. Like you said his over funded spy team and killings on our soil. But firstly is he a worthy enemy? Secondly are we addicted to proxy wars like Syria to try and thrawt his growing influence? And thirdly, we have to ask, do we encroach a bit much at times as well, making the bear agitated?
Defence is about getting the detente right? And war also comes as soft power. Like against the Chinese and Russians to an extent, have us so reliant on oil pipe lines and investment in infrastructure, and political party funding, and allowing them to own media, are we even awake to their soft power engagement?
you say Ukrainians will fight because it’s their country. But a complicated sort of country? You explained it yourself to us very well. The border, where it’s Eastern orthodox religion and Slav ethnicity, and rest lots of Catholic with polish and Lithuanian empire history is you explained yourself few weeks ago, complicated, and difficult for a peace deal.
Difficult questions.
But does a fight actually answer the difficult questions in any durable way?
And if we are keen for a bit of revenge, and it’s a proxy war, lots of geopolitical power games proxy war, is it even still that same fight trying to answer those same timeless questions?
And the people living in the “theatre” for years. 😕
Do you see what I mean?
I might look at this and regret it when sobered up, I’m shooting from the hip. Because I’m not a pacifist. Just one proxy war after another isn’t really the last resort open to us is it, in dealing with Putin? Unless you say it is.
I’m going to call it a night now. But it’s been fun 🙋♀️
The answer to all of that, is - indeed.
There are guarantees in war - Death, horror, desolation.
What would make Putin stop? Saying please? Abandoning the Eastern half of Europe, and hoping that is his last demand?
What makes him stop? You are talking about where do we draw the line? In our diplomacy, European security, best achieved via detente? I’ll have a go.
To start with what makes him stop, we need to know what makes him tick.
Let’s use your example. You are suggesting Ukraine and Latvia as much and the same thing, so Putin wants to grab them in much the same way for much the same reasons? But Latvia is mostly Protestant and then Catholic. Ukraine much more complicated, Orthodox, but various types. Just Orthodox, but not just Just Orthodox. We haven’t got all night. Latvians Letts it be known are Baltic, not even Western Slavs. Ukrainians are very much considered Eastern Slavs. And we learn a lesson from History, the agitating French created the Crimean War with agreement with Ottomans allowing Catholic jurisdiction over Orthodox lands. So we should know to make allowances Mother Russia gets touchy over this? Early twentieth century the Germanic’s were duffing up the southern Slavs and dragged Mother Russia into something that escalated into the First World War.
I think my paragraph, by all means take it apart, if accurate gives clear guidelines what from our standpoint are no go’s for them, and what bits are a headache for both parties.
As for Putins claim there was agreement with west NATO would not encroach, and we have broken it, I think we have been sensible not to over Ukraine. We could have signed them up for NATO and flooded place with watch towers by now. As far as I’m aware we have been careful not to provoke. In a way it could be a historic surprise if Russia doesn’t want all of Ukraine considering it Slav and orthodox make up and only wants now to partition and a cleaner border. If that really is all Russia wants, maybe Ukraine and West could negotiated border and lived in peace to see how it works. But too late now as we have clearly chosen proxy war.
Before you ask, I’ll ask you. How does a Rabbit sleep under a Wolf Moon? Not very well.
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
The Ukrainians will fight, because it's their country.
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
Yeah I do understand the point you are making. But at the end of the day though when the final whistle goes everyonecshakes hands, and 70 years later we are all proudly posing in our German and Japanese cars (because they won the war against our car industry).
Don’t you ever thinking though It’s not a paintballing event. People will be trying to live their lives in the proxy war zone. What about them? They will turn into refugees. We will have to deflect them away with our sonar weapons. Why do we do such counterintuitive things to our own security and influence have all these proxy wars? Is proxy wars really last resort? Why don’t we have lots more peace deals?
Most wars are stupid. Historically the majority of wars were started by the side that lost. My favourite is the War of the Triple Alliance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War. As PJ O'Rourke observed, over a century later, Paraguay is one South American country that doesn't feel crowded. "We fought like madmen, because we loved our country insanely".....
The problem comes down to - what do you do when someone decides he wants to steal a country? Let him? Or fight?
And when he has stolen that one, what does he think of next? Tea, biscuits, which country next?
“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war."
So our Problems Putin, you are very sure of that. And I don’t disagree. He says it’s us. I’m not saying fascist pig bastard as Farooq poetically called him isn’t an enemy or a problem. he is. Like you said his over funded spy team and killings on our soil. But firstly is he a worthy enemy? Secondly are we addicted to proxy wars like Syria to try and thrawt his growing influence? And thirdly, we have to ask, do we encroach a bit much at times as well, making the bear agitated?
Defence is about getting the detente right? And war also comes as soft power. Like against the Chinese and Russians to an extent, have us so reliant on oil pipe lines and investment in infrastructure, and political party funding, and allowing them to own media, are we even awake to their soft power engagement?
you say Ukrainians will fight because it’s their country. But a complicated sort of country? You explained it yourself to us very well. The border, where it’s Eastern orthodox religion and Slav ethnicity, and rest lots of Catholic with polish and Lithuanian empire history is you explained yourself few weeks ago, complicated, and difficult for a peace deal.
Difficult questions.
But does a fight actually answer the difficult questions in any durable way?
And if we are keen for a bit of revenge, and it’s a proxy war, lots of geopolitical power games proxy war, is it even still that same fight trying to answer those same timeless questions?
And the people living in the “theatre” for years. 😕
Do you see what I mean?
I might look at this and regret it when sobered up, I’m shooting from the hip. Because I’m not a pacifist. Just one proxy war after another isn’t really the last resort open to us is it, in dealing with Putin? Unless you say it is.
I’m going to call it a night now. But it’s been fun 🙋♀️
The answer to all of that, is - indeed.
There are guarantees in war - Death, horror, desolation.
What would make Putin stop? Saying please? Abandoning the Eastern half of Europe, and hoping that is his last demand?
What makes him stop? You are talking about where do we draw the line? In our diplomacy, European security, best achieved via detente? I’ll have a go.
To start with what makes him stop, we need to know what makes him tick.
Let’s use your example. You are suggesting Ukraine and Latvia as much and the same thing, so Putin wants to grab them in much the same way for much the same reasons? But Latvia is mostly Protestant and then Catholic. Ukraine much more complicated, Orthodox, but various types. Just Orthodox, but not just Just Orthodox. We haven’t got all night. Latvians Letts it be known are Baltic, not even Western Slavs. Ukrainians are very much considered Eastern Slavs. And we learn a lesson from History, the agitating French created the Crimean War with agreement with Ottomans allowing Catholic jurisdiction over Orthodox lands. So we should know to make allowances Mother Russia gets touchy over this? Early twentieth century the Germanic’s were duffing up the southern Slavs and dragged Mother Russia into something that escalated into the First World War.
I think my paragraph, by all means take it apart, if accurate gives clear guidelines what from our standpoint are no go’s for them, and what bits are a headache for both parties.
As for Putins claim there was agreement with west NATO would not encroach, and we have broken it, I think we have been sensible not to over Ukraine. We could have signed them up for NATO and flooded place with watch towers by now. As far as I’m aware we have been careful not to provoke. In a way it could be a historic surprise if Russia doesn’t want all of Ukraine considering it Slav and orthodox make up and only wants now to partition and a cleaner border. If that really is all Russia wants, maybe Ukraine and West could negotiated border and lived in peace to see how it works. But too late now as we have clearly chosen proxy war.
Putin, according to people who have met him, is a Greater Russian Nationalist - he believes that Russia should rule the largest territorial boundaries it ever had. It is more about empires than ethnicity.
Chechnya was never Slavic, for example.
"Clean border" - no, you don't want to say things like that. That's how Stalin and Hitler thought - we get a big broom and push all the "wrong" people over "there"..... Oh dear we seem to have broken a few. Never mind.....
As to Ukraine - there is quite a bit of dispute as to how much the people "liberated" by that nice Mr Putin, already, really wanted to be back in Mother Russia.
And why does Russia get to partition Ukraine? Without going through all that bothersome asking people stuff?
Or are we back in the Age of Empires? If so, I have a list of minor territorial modifications I would like. Starting with France - I want the whole lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Troyes
I’m not saying your wrong. I’m certainly debated out now.
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
The Ukrainians will fight, because it's their country.
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
Yeah I do understand the point you are making. But at the end of the day though when the final whistle goes everyonecshakes hands, and 70 years later we are all proudly posing in our German and Japanese cars (because they won the war against our car industry).
Don’t you ever thinking though It’s not a paintballing event. People will be trying to live their lives in the proxy war zone. What about them? They will turn into refugees. We will have to deflect them away with our sonar weapons. Why do we do such counterintuitive things to our own security and influence have all these proxy wars? Is proxy wars really last resort? Why don’t we have lots more peace deals?
Most wars are stupid. Historically the majority of wars were started by the side that lost. My favourite is the War of the Triple Alliance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War. As PJ O'Rourke observed, over a century later, Paraguay is one South American country that doesn't feel crowded. "We fought like madmen, because we loved our country insanely".....
The problem comes down to - what do you do when someone decides he wants to steal a country? Let him? Or fight?
And when he has stolen that one, what does he think of next? Tea, biscuits, which country next?
“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war."
So our Problems Putin, you are very sure of that. And I don’t disagree. He says it’s us. I’m not saying fascist pig bastard as Farooq poetically called him isn’t an enemy or a problem. he is. Like you said his over funded spy team and killings on our soil. But firstly is he a worthy enemy? Secondly are we addicted to proxy wars like Syria to try and thrawt his growing influence? And thirdly, we have to ask, do we encroach a bit much at times as well, making the bear agitated?
Defence is about getting the detente right? And war also comes as soft power. Like against the Chinese and Russians to an extent, have us so reliant on oil pipe lines and investment in infrastructure, and political party funding, and allowing them to own media, are we even awake to their soft power engagement?
you say Ukrainians will fight because it’s their country. But a complicated sort of country? You explained it yourself to us very well. The border, where it’s Eastern orthodox religion and Slav ethnicity, and rest lots of Catholic with polish and Lithuanian empire history is you explained yourself few weeks ago, complicated, and difficult for a peace deal.
Difficult questions.
But does a fight actually answer the difficult questions in any durable way?
And if we are keen for a bit of revenge, and it’s a proxy war, lots of geopolitical power games proxy war, is it even still that same fight trying to answer those same timeless questions?
And the people living in the “theatre” for years. 😕
Do you see what I mean?
I might look at this and regret it when sobered up, I’m shooting from the hip. Because I’m not a pacifist. Just one proxy war after another isn’t really the last resort open to us is it, in dealing with Putin? Unless you say it is.
I’m going to call it a night now. But it’s been fun 🙋♀️
The answer to all of that, is - indeed.
There are guarantees in war - Death, horror, desolation.
What would make Putin stop? Saying please? Abandoning the Eastern half of Europe, and hoping that is his last demand?
What makes him stop? You are talking about where do we draw the line? In our diplomacy, European security, best achieved via detente? I’ll have a go.
To start with what makes him stop, we need to know what makes him tick.
Let’s use your example. You are suggesting Ukraine and Latvia as much and the same thing, so Putin wants to grab them in much the same way for much the same reasons? But Latvia is mostly Protestant and then Catholic. Ukraine much more complicated, Orthodox, but various types. Just Orthodox, but not just Just Orthodox. We haven’t got all night. Latvians Letts it be known are Baltic, not even Western Slavs. Ukrainians are very much considered Eastern Slavs. And we learn a lesson from History, the agitating French created the Crimean War with agreement with Ottomans allowing Catholic jurisdiction over Orthodox lands. So we should know to make allowances Mother Russia gets touchy over this? Early twentieth century the Germanic’s were duffing up the southern Slavs and dragged Mother Russia into something that escalated into the First World War.
I think my paragraph, by all means take it apart, if accurate gives clear guidelines what from our standpoint are no go’s for them, and what bits are a headache for both parties.
As for Putins claim there was agreement with west NATO would not encroach, and we have broken it, I think we have been sensible not to over Ukraine. We could have signed them up for NATO and flooded place with watch towers by now. As far as I’m aware we have been careful not to provoke. In a way it could be a historic surprise if Russia doesn’t want all of Ukraine considering it Slav and orthodox make up and only wants now to partition and a cleaner border. If that really is all Russia wants, maybe Ukraine and West could negotiated border and lived in peace to see how it works. But too late now as we have clearly chosen proxy war.
Putin, according to people who have met him, is a Greater Russian Nationalist - he believes that Russia should rule the largest territorial boundaries it ever had. It is more about empires than ethnicity.
Chechnya was never Slavic, for example.
"Clean border" - no, you don't want to say things like that. That's how Stalin and Hitler thought - we get a big broom and push all the "wrong" people over "there"..... Oh dear we seem to have broken a few. Never mind.....
As to Ukraine - there is quite a bit of dispute as to how much the people "liberated" by that nice Mr Putin, already, really wanted to be back in Mother Russia.
And why does Russia get to partition Ukraine? Without going through all that bothersome asking people stuff?
Or are we back in the Age of Empires? If so, I have a list of minor territorial modifications I would like. Starting with France - I want the whole lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Troyes
I’m not saying your wrong. I’m certainly debated out now.
War it is.
Yuk. 😕
I leave it with a thought.
Since the Ukrainians are being sold out by the Germans - why don't we do a swap?
The Russians can have Germany, as long as they leave Ukraine alone. Why wouldn't that be an idea?
The Ukrainians can have a nice peace. And the Germans who like selling stuff to Mr Putin can get on with their thing.
1. “Absolutely nothing the British do will make any material difference to the outcome of a Russia - Ukraine armed conflict so this is pure virtue signalling” - Dura Ace
2. “. A big pile of up-to-date portable anti-tank weapons could make a difference. Turn it into an attritional battle in depth.“ - Malmesbury
3. “is a Russian invasion of the Ukraine the one thing that could save Johnson? The ultimate dead cat?” - Ben Pointer
We have PBers who can properly answer the questions I am sure 🙂
we have taken option to send troops - the Daily Mail claim we have, so can we clear that one up, is the Mail lying?
at least latest technology to kill as many Russians as possible if they invade? To act as a military deterrent? Or virtue signalling?
If you go do you go all in to save Ukraine from Putin, with allies, or what is the value of just a token measure? I can understand value of trying to save Ukraine and it’s West leaning democracy, but a token effort just flags up our business is quite the opposite of genuinely answering their pleas for help? underlines we are not really willing to fight for Ukraine, or acting with many like minded allies when the Ukraines who resist are slaughtered in front of us on news Channel?
Should we do anything to encourage them to slaughter themselves 😕
Surely any military move, especially when we commit troops, or even small ones like this has a purpose, value and gains to make, you can appear in front reporters explain what you are getting into and exit strategy to get out? So can rule out unlike other government business this week this nothing to do with Operation Save the Dog, our commitment and action carefully planned?
I fully support Boris and Biden, or whoever is in charge, taking whatever measures are necessary to defend Ukraine against that fascist pig bastard Putin. Democracies need to stick together against totalitarian aggression. We should have dealt with this back in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine. Our collective failure then has lead to this present danger. If we don't deal with it this time, we'll be back in another situation in another few years. And then who will it be? Lithuania? Finland?
but you completely blind to my point yet again - we are not really all in though are we? Wr are not properly defending the democracy of Ukraine against the fascist pig bastard. We are going to let him get away with annexing more of it.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
If we send a NATO army into Ukraine, then that is WWIII. At that point Putin can't back down. So if he starts losing, he knows it curtains for him, so he might risk escalation...
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
“think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state. “.
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
The Ukrainians will fight, because it's their country.
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
Yeah I do understand the point you are making. But at the end of the day though when the final whistle goes everyonecshakes hands, and 70 years later we are all proudly posing in our German and Japanese cars (because they won the war against our car industry).
Don’t you ever thinking though It’s not a paintballing event. People will be trying to live their lives in the proxy war zone. What about them? They will turn into refugees. We will have to deflect them away with our sonar weapons. Why do we do such counterintuitive things to our own security and influence have all these proxy wars? Is proxy wars really last resort? Why don’t we have lots more peace deals?
Most wars are stupid. Historically the majority of wars were started by the side that lost. My favourite is the War of the Triple Alliance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War. As PJ O'Rourke observed, over a century later, Paraguay is one South American country that doesn't feel crowded. "We fought like madmen, because we loved our country insanely".....
The problem comes down to - what do you do when someone decides he wants to steal a country? Let him? Or fight?
And when he has stolen that one, what does he think of next? Tea, biscuits, which country next?
“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war."
So our Problems Putin, you are very sure of that. And I don’t disagree. He says it’s us. I’m not saying fascist pig bastard as Farooq poetically called him isn’t an enemy or a problem. he is. Like you said his over funded spy team and killings on our soil. But firstly is he a worthy enemy? Secondly are we addicted to proxy wars like Syria to try and thrawt his growing influence? And thirdly, we have to ask, do we encroach a bit much at times as well, making the bear agitated?
Defence is about getting the detente right? And war also comes as soft power. Like against the Chinese and Russians to an extent, have us so reliant on oil pipe lines and investment in infrastructure, and political party funding, and allowing them to own media, are we even awake to their soft power engagement?
you say Ukrainians will fight because it’s their country. But a complicated sort of country? You explained it yourself to us very well. The border, where it’s Eastern orthodox religion and Slav ethnicity, and rest lots of Catholic with polish and Lithuanian empire history is you explained yourself few weeks ago, complicated, and difficult for a peace deal.
Difficult questions.
But does a fight actually answer the difficult questions in any durable way?
And if we are keen for a bit of revenge, and it’s a proxy war, lots of geopolitical power games proxy war, is it even still that same fight trying to answer those same timeless questions?
And the people living in the “theatre” for years. 😕
Do you see what I mean?
I might look at this and regret it when sobered up, I’m shooting from the hip. Because I’m not a pacifist. Just one proxy war after another isn’t really the last resort open to us is it, in dealing with Putin? Unless you say it is.
I’m going to call it a night now. But it’s been fun 🙋♀️
The answer to all of that, is - indeed.
There are guarantees in war - Death, horror, desolation.
What would make Putin stop? Saying please? Abandoning the Eastern half of Europe, and hoping that is his last demand?
What makes him stop? You are talking about where do we draw the line? In our diplomacy, European security, best achieved via detente? I’ll have a go.
To start with what makes him stop, we need to know what makes him tick.
Let’s use your example. You are suggesting Ukraine and Latvia as much and the same thing, so Putin wants to grab them in much the same way for much the same reasons? But Latvia is mostly Protestant and then Catholic. Ukraine much more complicated, Orthodox, but various types. Just Orthodox, but not just Just Orthodox. We haven’t got all night. Latvians Letts it be known are Baltic, not even Western Slavs. Ukrainians are very much considered Eastern Slavs. And we learn a lesson from History, the agitating French created the Crimean War with agreement with Ottomans allowing Catholic jurisdiction over Orthodox lands. So we should know to make allowances Mother Russia gets touchy over this? Early twentieth century the Germanic’s were duffing up the southern Slavs and dragged Mother Russia into something that escalated into the First World War.
I think my paragraph, by all means take it apart, if accurate gives clear guidelines what from our standpoint are no go’s for them, and what bits are a headache for both parties.
As for Putins claim there was agreement with west NATO would not encroach, and we have broken it, I think we have been sensible not to over Ukraine. We could have signed them up for NATO and flooded place with watch towers by now. As far as I’m aware we have been careful not to provoke. In a way it could be a historic surprise if Russia doesn’t want all of Ukraine considering it Slav and orthodox make up and only wants now to partition and a cleaner border. If that really is all Russia wants, maybe Ukraine and West could negotiated border and lived in peace to see how it works. But too late now as we have clearly chosen proxy war.
Putin, according to people who have met him, is a Greater Russian Nationalist - he believes that Russia should rule the largest territorial boundaries it ever had. It is more about empires than ethnicity.
Chechnya was never Slavic, for example.
"Clean border" - no, you don't want to say things like that. That's how Stalin and Hitler thought - we get a big broom and push all the "wrong" people over "there"..... Oh dear we seem to have broken a few. Never mind.....
As to Ukraine - there is quite a bit of dispute as to how much the people "liberated" by that nice Mr Putin, already, really wanted to be back in Mother Russia.
And why does Russia get to partition Ukraine? Without going through all that bothersome asking people stuff?
Or are we back in the Age of Empires? If so, I have a list of minor territorial modifications I would like. Starting with France - I want the whole lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Troyes
What, of course, is insane about this is, is that YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE IN YOUR COUNTRY WHO DON'T WANT TO BE IN YOUR COUNTRY.
I mean, this isn't rocket science. If you invade Ukraine, then the resources of the Russian state will be used to handle the inevitable low level insurgency in Ukraine. In the 1950s, Britain realized that ruling all these countries that didn't want to be ruled by you, was a major economic negative. How hard is this to understand?
Brexit is dead. You know what else is dead? Levelling up.
Boris doesn’t care enough to focus on the details, and Rishi is actively hostile to it.
IPPR North’s report today is brutal. - Most Levelling Up promises are broken - Paltry new spend of £32 pp v £413 in austerity cuts - 95p in every £1 spent by central government four years ago is now 96p. - Jobs and proverty data show north/south divide is getting worse.
I am not sure any of this electorally salient, and the “North” and “Midlands” don’t seem to vote in their own economic interests, but it is worth noting.
Perhaps you should visit some of those constituencies which went Conservative in 2019 and see all the new housing estates being built.
As for jobs, different places have different levels.
But you've got full employment in the mining areas for the first time since anyone can remember.
The critics of “Leveling Up” think it’s only about public spending, preferably on huge projects such as trains to London. That’s a very Civil Service mindset, which is how we got to this position in the first place. What most people in these areas want are good opportunities, and the sense that government are actually listenening to them rather than insulting them.
Brexit is dead. You know what else is dead? Levelling up.
Boris doesn’t care enough to focus on the details, and Rishi is actively hostile to it.
IPPR North’s report today is brutal. - Most Levelling Up promises are broken - Paltry new spend of £32 pp v £413 in austerity cuts - 95p in every £1 spent by central government four years ago is now 96p. - Jobs and proverty data show north/south divide is getting worse.
I am not sure any of this electorally salient, and the “North” and “Midlands” don’t seem to vote in their own economic interests, but it is worth noting.
Perhaps you should visit some of those constituencies which went Conservative in 2019 and see all the new housing estates being built.
As for jobs, different places have different levels.
But you've got full employment in the mining areas for the first time since anyone can remember.
The critics of “Leveling Up” think it’s only about public spending, preferably on huge projects such as trains to London. That’s a very Civil Service mindset, which is how we got to this position in the first place. What most people in these areas want are good opportunities, and the sense that government are actually listenening to them rather than insulting them.
Things I’ve learned this morning: Her Majesty has four “Counsellors of State“, people who deputise for her on official duties, sign routine documents and welcome ambassadors.
The problem she has, is that two of them are Harry and Andrew, and they’re appointed for decades thanks to the order of succession. She wants to step back from the duties herself, but obviously doesn’t want the two black sheep anywhere near anything. Perhaps Anne and Edward would step up, if they could remove Harry and Andrew from the succession line.
What a horrible last year or two she’s had, losing her husband and two of her senior family.
Brexit is dead. You know what else is dead? Levelling up.
Boris doesn’t care enough to focus on the details, and Rishi is actively hostile to it.
IPPR North’s report today is brutal. - Most Levelling Up promises are broken - Paltry new spend of £32 pp v £413 in austerity cuts - 95p in every £1 spent by central government four years ago is now 96p. - Jobs and proverty data show north/south divide is getting worse.
I am not sure any of this electorally salient, and the “North” and “Midlands” don’t seem to vote in their own economic interests, but it is worth noting.
Perhaps you should visit some of those constituencies which went Conservative in 2019 and see all the new housing estates being built.
As for jobs, different places have different levels.
But you've got full employment in the mining areas for the first time since anyone can remember.
The critics of “Leveling Up” think it’s only about public spending, preferably on huge projects such as trains to London. That’s a very Civil Service mindset, which is how we got to this position in the first place. What most people in these areas want are good opportunities, and the sense that government are actually listenening to them rather than insulting them.
Caring Tories?
Good luck selling that.
The Tories are not calling them deplorables, so they’re already up.
David Miliband @DMiliband · 8h I worked in 10 Downing Street for 4 years (1997-2001). There were receptions in the state rooms, working dinners with dignitaries, but I don’t remember a single party, DJ etc. There was much more reverence than revelry. This idea “they’re all at it” is nonsense
David Miliband @DMiliband · 8h I worked in 10 Downing Street for 4 years (1997-2001). There were receptions in the state rooms, working dinners with dignitaries, but I don’t remember a single party, DJ etc. There was much more reverence than revelry. This idea “they’re all at it” is nonsense
David Miliband @DMiliband · 8h I worked in 10 Downing Street for 4 years (1997-2001). There were receptions in the state rooms, working dinners with dignitaries, but I don’t remember a single party, DJ etc. There was much more reverence than revelry. This idea “they’re all at it” is nonsense
When Russia has an entrenched falling-to-stagnant population, why does Putin want Lebensraum?
Shall I tell you something really amazing about Russia?
In 1998, a solid 88% of Russia's exports were of primary commodities: i.e. oil, gas, coal, wood (and a small amount of agriculture). Most of the rest was of refined commodities. And then there was a very small percentage that was export of "defence" products to Russian client states.
And at that time, Russia's exports were slightly greater than Belgium's.
In the past twenty years, we've had a commodities supercycle. Oil sells for 10x the price it did back in 1998. Gas is up a lot. Coal ditto.
Yet more than 85% of Russia's exports are still primary commodities. And Belgium has overtaken them.
When Russia has an entrenched falling-to-stagnant population, why does Putin want Lebensraum?
Shall I tell you something really amazing about Russia?
In 1998, a solid 88% of Russia's exports were of primary commodities: i.e. oil, gas, coal, wood (and a small amount of agriculture). Most of the rest was of refined commodities. And then there was a very small percentage that was export of "defence" products to Russian client states.
And at that time, Russia's exports were slightly greater than Belgium's.
In the past twenty years, we've had a commodities supercycle. Oil sells for 10x the price it did back in 1998. Gas is up a lot. Coal ditto.
Yet more than 85% of Russia's exports are still primary commodities. And Belgium has overtaken them.
And yet they have upgraded their nukes, and can still destroy the world. Unlike Belgium.
Putin has two hobbies - accumulating money (of which he has more than anyone in Belgium) and war.
Ukraine will fight any invasion, whether we help them ir not. He is, IMO, slightly less likely to invade if we help them now.
When Russia has an entrenched falling-to-stagnant population, why does Putin want Lebensraum?
If Vovka carves out Novorossiya Redux from south eastern Ukraine then he gets 10s of millions more Russians - as he sees it.
The current situation of Russian occupied Crimea and the Grand Theft Auto statelets of Donetsk and Luhansk isn't stable or sustainable so it's going to collapse into something that is.
One might be tempted to conclude that Ukraine's 2014 borders are the preferred stable solution but the time to ensure that was 2014 not 2022.
There certainly are very patchy parts of the NHS, and not all Trusts are well lead. It is going to take a lot of work to make the NHS fit again post covid. The challenges are immense. The biggest problems are going to be recruitment, retention and training of staff, all of which require major effort and do not produce short term results.
Instead, what we will get are another round of management reforms initiated by the management consultancies so beloved by politicians. I look forward to of being told how to run my clinics by wet behind the ears graduates from business school who have never had a proper job, and who have no understanding of common conditions like diabetes.
Not much about the Cummings allegations this morning on PB... FWIW I think he's got more than just this, he's lucky the media are giving him so much airtime (after all he is a disgrunted ex-employee/contractor).
Not much about the Cummings allegations this morning on PB... FWIW I think he's got more than just this, he's lucky the media are giving him so much airtime (after all he is a disgrunted ex-employee/contractor).
Cummings was Johnsons right hand man at the time, and Gray needs to interview him. At which point there is only one conclusion to be drawn.
I think that he is one of the most hateful people ever in British politics. Johnson chose his nemesis and only has himself to blame.
There certainly are very patchy parts of the NHS, and not all Trusts are well lead. It is going to take a lot of work to make the NHS fit again post covid. The challenges are immense. The biggest problems are going to be recruitment, retention and training of staff, all of which require major effort and do not produce short term results.
Instead, what we will get are another round of management reforms initiated by the management consultancies so beloved by politicians. I look forward to of being told how to run my clinics by wet behind the ears graduates from business school who have never had a proper job, and who have no understanding of common conditions like diabetes.
Sounds about right. Meanwhile there was something in the news recently about nurses who came out of retirement having to quit again because of pension rules. Not to mention sacking unvaccinated staff, and the training deficit, especially for surgeons (similar to lorry drivers last year: suspend training for the pandemic then hit an entirely foreseeable shortage when the old'uns retire).
When Russia has an entrenched falling-to-stagnant population, why does Putin want Lebensraum?
Shall I tell you something really amazing about Russia?
In 1998, a solid 88% of Russia's exports were of primary commodities: i.e. oil, gas, coal, wood (and a small amount of agriculture). Most of the rest was of refined commodities. And then there was a very small percentage that was export of "defence" products to Russian client states.
And at that time, Russia's exports were slightly greater than Belgium's.
In the past twenty years, we've had a commodities supercycle. Oil sells for 10x the price it did back in 1998. Gas is up a lot. Coal ditto.
Yet more than 85% of Russia's exports are still primary commodities. And Belgium has overtaken them.
And yet they have upgraded their nukes, and can still destroy the world. Unlike Belgium.
Putin has two hobbies - accumulating money (of which he has more than anyone in Belgium) and war.
Ukraine will fight any invasion, whether we help them ir not. He is, IMO, slightly less likely to invade if we help them now.
I see Putin as being similar to Erdogan in Turkey. Both are very different characters to when they first won power, when they were both more moderate. But having got power, they realise they quite like it and its trappings. So it becomes a case of ensuring they keep that power, and they become increasingly authoritarian and anti-democratic.
When Russia has an entrenched falling-to-stagnant population, why does Putin want Lebensraum?
Shall I tell you something really amazing about Russia?
In 1998, a solid 88% of Russia's exports were of primary commodities: i.e. oil, gas, coal, wood (and a small amount of agriculture). Most of the rest was of refined commodities. And then there was a very small percentage that was export of "defence" products to Russian client states.
And at that time, Russia's exports were slightly greater than Belgium's.
In the past twenty years, we've had a commodities supercycle. Oil sells for 10x the price it did back in 1998. Gas is up a lot. Coal ditto.
Yet more than 85% of Russia's exports are still primary commodities. And Belgium has overtaken them.
And yet they have upgraded their nukes, and can still destroy the world. Unlike Belgium.
Putin has two hobbies - accumulating money (of which he has more than anyone in Belgium) and war.
Ukraine will fight any invasion, whether we help them ir not. He is, IMO, slightly less likely to invade if we help them now.
I don't disagree with any of that.
It's like with Hitler - if we'd been willing to fight for the Saarland, then the whole Second World War might have been avoided.
Is @TheScreamingEagles running this one - or just writing the Guardian headlines ?
No comment.
One of the reasons I have doubts about Liz Truss is I was told before Christmas her leadership campaign is called Project Valkyrie after the Norse figures.
They seem oblivious to why calling an operation to oust a terrible leader called Valkyrie is ominous.
Things I’ve learned this morning: Her Majesty has four “Counsellors of State“, people who deputise for her on official duties, sign routine documents and welcome ambassadors.
The problem she has, is that two of them are Harry and Andrew, and they’re appointed for decades thanks to the order of succession. She wants to step back from the duties herself, but obviously doesn’t want the two black sheep anywhere near anything. Perhaps Anne and Edward would step up, if they could remove Harry and Andrew from the succession line.
What a horrible last year or two she’s had, losing her husband and two of her senior family.
There certainly are very patchy parts of the NHS, and not all Trusts are well lead. It is going to take a lot of work to make the NHS fit again post covid. The challenges are immense. The biggest problems are going to be recruitment, retention and training of staff, all of which require major effort and do not produce short term results.
Instead, what we will get are another round of management reforms initiated by the management consultancies so beloved by politicians. I look forward to of being told how to run my clinics by wet behind the ears graduates from business school who have never had a proper job, and who have no understanding of common conditions like diabetes.
Sounds about right. Meanwhile there was something in the news recently about nurses who came out of retirement having to quit again because of pension rules. Not to mention sacking unvaccinated staff, and the training deficit, especially for surgeons (similar to lorry drivers last year: suspend training for the pandemic then hit an entirely foreseeable shortage when the old'uns retire).
I am not sure what pension rules would be a problem. "Retire and Return" has been pretty standard for some years. There needs to be a 28 day gap in service, but such staff are cheaper for the employing Trust as there is no employer superannuation to pay.
The problem of retention is more at the junior end. The attrition rates of junior nurses and doctors have always been high, but worse recently. Poor retention of domestic graduates is why training is such a constant, and immigration from places like the Philippines so nessecary.
When Russia has an entrenched falling-to-stagnant population, why does Putin want Lebensraum?
Shall I tell you something really amazing about Russia?
In 1998, a solid 88% of Russia's exports were of primary commodities: i.e. oil, gas, coal, wood (and a small amount of agriculture). Most of the rest was of refined commodities. And then there was a very small percentage that was export of "defence" products to Russian client states.
And at that time, Russia's exports were slightly greater than Belgium's.
In the past twenty years, we've had a commodities supercycle. Oil sells for 10x the price it did back in 1998. Gas is up a lot. Coal ditto.
Yet more than 85% of Russia's exports are still primary commodities. And Belgium has overtaken them.
And yet they have upgraded their nukes, and can still destroy the world. Unlike Belgium.
Putin has two hobbies - accumulating money (of which he has more than anyone in Belgium) and war.
Ukraine will fight any invasion, whether we help them ir not. He is, IMO, slightly less likely to invade if we help them now.
I see Putin as being similar to Erdogan in Turkey. Both are very different characters to when they first won power, when they were both more moderate. But having got power, they realise they quite like it and its trappings. So it becomes a case of ensuring they keep that power, and they become increasingly authoritarian and anti-democratic.
Putin who, when faced with term limits as prime minister, became president and switched legislative control to that office? Who from the beginning asserted a Russian sphere of influence over former Soviet states? That Putin?
Scotland's Sir Andy Murray is embarrassing himself right now, the chap from the country with the Cross of St George as a flag is showing how tennis should be played.
There certainly are very patchy parts of the NHS, and not all Trusts are well lead. It is going to take a lot of work to make the NHS fit again post covid. The challenges are immense. The biggest problems are going to be recruitment, retention and training of staff, all of which require major effort and do not produce short term results.
Instead, what we will get are another round of management reforms initiated by the management consultancies so beloved by politicians. I look forward to of being told how to run my clinics by wet behind the ears graduates from business school who have never had a proper job, and who have no understanding of common conditions like diabetes.
Sounds about right. Meanwhile there was something in the news recently about nurses who came out of retirement having to quit again because of pension rules. Not to mention sacking unvaccinated staff, and the training deficit, especially for surgeons (similar to lorry drivers last year: suspend training for the pandemic then hit an entirely foreseeable shortage when the old'uns retire).
I am not sure what pension rules would be a problem. "Retire and Return" has been pretty standard for some years. There needs to be a 28 day gap in service, but such staff are cheaper for the employing Trust as there is no employer superannuation to pay.
The problem of retention is more at the junior end. The attrition rates of junior nurses and doctors have always been high, but worse recently. Poor retention of domestic graduates is why training is such a constant, and immigration from places like the Philippines so nessecary.
O/T this is a terrible idea, Raab should be fired into the heart of the sun for this.
Magistrates are to be given tougher sentencing powers, allowing them to jail offenders for up to a year, under plans to reduce a backlog of cases clogging the crown courts.
The reform, which will be announced today by Dominic Raab, the justice secretary, will double the maximum prison sentence that can be handed down in magistrates’ courts in England and Wales.
Penal reform campaigners described the measure as “the height of irresponsibility”, warning that it would stretch the prison system to breaking point.
Justice ministry officials predicted that the reform — which is due to come into effect within months — would free up 2,000 sitting days at crown courts and shift about 500 trials to magistrates each year.
Ministers acknowledged that it had to an extent been forced on the government, which was struggling to deal with the impact of the pandemic on the justice system.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Who would have thought it? Signal your plan to blame it all on the Civil Service, and they rally round? Mystifying.
Yep. I was mystified when Sunday Times basically reported that Johnson's big plan is to dump all the shit on the civil servants and spads and clear the whole lot of them out asap.
Can't think of better circumstances for even more leaks, photos, emails and so on.
Think about how Boris got into this mess, he did the same to Big Dom....and then Big Dom waited, spending his lockdown time watching War Games and then unloaded global thermo-nuclear war.
The only way to win is not to play.
Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess?
I want to play "Theaterwide Biotoxic and Chemical Warfare"
Isn't that what Carrie experiences when Peppa has been at a work meeting and gets jiggy?
Scotland's Sir Andy Murray is embarrassing himself right now, the chap from the country with the Cross of St George as a flag is showing how tennis should be played.
O/T this is a terrible idea, Raab should be fired into the heart of the sun for this.
Magistrates are to be given tougher sentencing powers, allowing them to jail offenders for up to a year, under plans to reduce a backlog of cases clogging the crown courts.
The reform, which will be announced today by Dominic Raab, the justice secretary, will double the maximum prison sentence that can be handed down in magistrates’ courts in England and Wales.
Penal reform campaigners described the measure as “the height of irresponsibility”, warning that it would stretch the prison system to breaking point.
Justice ministry officials predicted that the reform — which is due to come into effect within months — would free up 2,000 sitting days at crown courts and shift about 500 trials to magistrates each year.
Ministers acknowledged that it had to an extent been forced on the government, which was struggling to deal with the impact of the pandemic on the justice system.
They need to do something to fix the ever increasing backlog of court cases - now you could spend money and do it properly but this Government will go for the cheapest fix instead because hey - they don't expect to end up there themselves so they don't care.
O/T this is a terrible idea, Raab should be fired into the heart of the sun for this.
Magistrates are to be given tougher sentencing powers, allowing them to jail offenders for up to a year, under plans to reduce a backlog of cases clogging the crown courts.
The reform, which will be announced today by Dominic Raab, the justice secretary, will double the maximum prison sentence that can be handed down in magistrates’ courts in England and Wales.
Penal reform campaigners described the measure as “the height of irresponsibility”, warning that it would stretch the prison system to breaking point.
Justice ministry officials predicted that the reform — which is due to come into effect within months — would free up 2,000 sitting days at crown courts and shift about 500 trials to magistrates each year.
Ministers acknowledged that it had to an extent been forced on the government, which was struggling to deal with the impact of the pandemic on the justice system.
Stupid but also clever in that it looks like red meat to Save Big Dog but also reminds the backbench electorate of Raab's claim to the Number 10 crown.
When Russia has an entrenched falling-to-stagnant population, why does Putin want Lebensraum?
Shall I tell you something really amazing about Russia?
In 1998, a solid 88% of Russia's exports were of primary commodities: i.e. oil, gas, coal, wood (and a small amount of agriculture). Most of the rest was of refined commodities. And then there was a very small percentage that was export of "defence" products to Russian client states.
And at that time, Russia's exports were slightly greater than Belgium's.
In the past twenty years, we've had a commodities supercycle. Oil sells for 10x the price it did back in 1998. Gas is up a lot. Coal ditto.
Yet more than 85% of Russia's exports are still primary commodities. And Belgium has overtaken them.
And yet they have upgraded their nukes, and can still destroy the world. Unlike Belgium.
Putin has two hobbies - accumulating money (of which he has more than anyone in Belgium) and war.
Ukraine will fight any invasion, whether we help them ir not. He is, IMO, slightly less likely to invade if we help them now.
I see Putin as being similar to Erdogan in Turkey. Both are very different characters to when they first won power, when they were both more moderate. But having got power, they realise they quite like it and its trappings. So it becomes a case of ensuring they keep that power, and they become increasingly authoritarian and anti-democratic.
Putin who, when faced with term limits as prime minister, became president and switched legislative control to that office? Who from the beginning asserted a Russian sphere of influence over former Soviet states? That Putin?
Yes, that Putin. The term limits thing came about he'd been in power for eight years, so it hardly smashes my thesis. And any Russian leader would try to assert a sphere of influence over the former Russian states. He sort-of inherited the Second Chechen War, and the Russo-Georgian war occurred about eight or nine years later.
As I said: they get power, then decide they quite like it. I'm far from convinced they envisaged their current positions when they first got power.
Erdogan's current economic vandalism is a good example.
A serious speech by the UK defence secretary on Ukraine, in which he not only takes down the Kremlin’s bogus arguments, but also shows what British foreign policy, if undertaken with competence, can stand for.
Not much about the Cummings allegations this morning on PB... FWIW I think he's got more than just this, he's lucky the media are giving him so much airtime (after all he is a disgrunted ex-employee/contractor).
Cummings was Johnsons right hand man at the time, and Gray needs to interview him. At which point there is only one conclusion to be drawn.
I think that he is one of the most hateful people ever in British politics. Johnson chose his nemesis and only has himself to blame.
What I love about Cummings is that this is all about him yet is nothing at all about him.
He is clearly out to enact revenge on a man he sees as completely unfit and unsuitable to be PM. And he himself has broken any concept of trust with the public after his Barnard Castle coverup. But we don't need to question what Cummings says or thinks.
What he can prove - the damning evidence - is far more compelling than any opinion he could give. We can discount Cummings and his POV because he is able to trowel on more damaging revelations with evidence.
Who would have thought that doing stupid and politically damaging things could be politically damaging? Clearly Peppa didn't. School is in and the teacher has his red pen out ...
There certainly are very patchy parts of the NHS, and not all Trusts are well lead. It is going to take a lot of work to make the NHS fit again post covid. The challenges are immense. The biggest problems are going to be recruitment, retention and training of staff, all of which require major effort and do not produce short term results.
Instead, what we will get are another round of management reforms initiated by the management consultancies so beloved by politicians. I look forward to of being told how to run my clinics by wet behind the ears graduates from business school who have never had a proper job, and who have no understanding of common conditions like diabetes.
Sounds about right. Meanwhile there was something in the news recently about nurses who came out of retirement having to quit again because of pension rules. Not to mention sacking unvaccinated staff, and the training deficit, especially for surgeons (similar to lorry drivers last year: suspend training for the pandemic then hit an entirely foreseeable shortage when the old'uns retire).
I am not sure what pension rules would be a problem. "Retire and Return" has been pretty standard for some years. There needs to be a 28 day gap in service, but such staff are cheaper for the employing Trust as there is no employer superannuation to pay.
The problem of retention is more at the junior end. The attrition rates of junior nurses and doctors have always been high, but worse recently. Poor retention of domestic graduates is why training is such a constant, and immigration from places like the Philippines so nessecary.
Well done Britain, but what on Earth are Germany playing at here? “Staying neutral” starting to look very like supporting the Russians. European unity looking very much in danger this morning.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak · 4m As we reported tonight two former officials remember Cummings discussing warning the PM on May 20th, 2020, that he shouldn't go ahead with the event in the garden - No 10 have totally disputed this version of events
Who would have thought it? Signal your plan to blame it all on the Civil Service, and they rally round? Mystifying.
Yep. I was mystified when Sunday Times basically reported that Johnson's big plan is to dump all the shit on the civil servants and spads and clear the whole lot of them out asap.
Can't think of better circumstances for even more leaks, photos, emails and so on.
Think about how Boris got into this mess, he did the same to Big Dom....and then Big Dom waited, spending his lockdown time watching War Games and then unloaded global thermo-nuclear war.
The only way to win is not to play.
Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess?
I want to play "Theaterwide Biotoxic and Chemical Warfare"
Isn't that what Carrie experiences when Peppa has been at a work meeting and gets jiggy?
Well done Britain, but what on Earth are Germany playing at here? “Staying neutral” starting to look very like supporting the Russians. European unity looking very much in danger this morning.
Germany might be trying to play both sides, or maybe there has just been a change in leadership. Can it ride the tiger (or the bear)?
Well done Britain, but what on Earth are Germany playing at here? “Staying neutral” starting to look very like supporting the Russians. European unity looking very much in danger this morning.
I think Germany have zero choice in the matter - they have serious energy issues created by closing all their nuclear power stations. And while gas is only a short term fix, it's the only fix they have.
Talking about energy, was in one of our favourite restaurants at the weekend (for reference it's not big, about 35 seats).
Gas and Electricity costs have gone from £400 a month to £1600 a month and there is likely to be another increase. Anyone who isn't on a capped domestic rate is suffering at the moment and there is no end in sight.
Comments
Can't think of better circumstances for even more leaks, photos, emails and so on.
A lot of anti-tank weapons, properly used, could make it messy for the Russians. The Americans are also arming them at a rate of knots.
The Ukrainians are going to fight no matter what.
Arming the Ukrainians is about them killing and maiming more Russians if they invade. This might be partially a deterrent - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham was a big thing in Russia. It might be a token. It might be a big help.
It also means that we are not directly involved - think of it as a FuckYouVeryMuch for the murders committed in the UK by the Russian state.
If we take the German approach, and sell them to the Russians, then it will be a question of what next, on Putins shopping list.
And thus the circle of PB is complete.
"Levelling up" as an ambition was about the only one of Boris's promises that was remotely worthwhile. A pity if even the promise of it disappears.
If Putin goes in, he’ll be looking to secure the Russian-speaking crescent around the east and south of Ukraine, but he’ll leave the Ukrainian-speaking north and west as a rump.
Hezbollah have destroyed five Israeli tanks over about 15 years despite firing (literally) thousands of ATGM rounds at them.
The two British C-17 loads of NLAW aren't going to make any difference beyond the politics of the gesture.
Azerbaijan and Turkey recently showed us what the gold standard in anti armour warfare looks like and it didn't involve people running around with short range shoulder launched ATGMs.
The new leader bounce could help the elections be not such a bad set.
Even if it was, they’d just blame it on Boris, nor would they get the blame, so new into the post, how can it ALL be their fault after Boris so clearly drove into the ditch.
Even if there is no bounce as there has been before, it was terrible results, and they got all the blame for Boris driving it into the ditch - all a bit hypothetical and contrary to proven history - they now have the gig and can get on with it, so it’s hardly that off putting!
Sorry, you need far stronger reasoning he survive till May than that Andy.
I mean it's important in that it determines control of quite a few significant local authorities, but that's true whoever is in Number 10. It won't define a new PM's term in office.
All we are doing is, as Malmsy said “two fingers for the novochuk killings you bastard” and then looking away as he annexes away.
We never agree Farooq. You need to think about it.
I fuck with that albatross art. It goes hard.
There has been a lot of talk about a "culture" at Downing Street in recent days. I doubt Sue Gray will cover this in her report, but it does seem to me quite possible that this was not in fact a majority position that Johnson failed to rein in, but a minority position he helped create and that most steered clear of.
So we are going to fight a poxy war, if it comes to war. The Russians and Ukrainians will do the dying.
The deterrent for Putin is that he will be sending his troops into a meat grinder. After a while, even a dictatorial government has to show *some* success.
I’ve watched a lot of Second World War films, Kelly’s Heroes I’ve watched lots of times, but it’s all moved on a bit since then hasn’t it.
Abraham. Martin, John & Bobby (Dion 1968)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL81tPHp82g&list=RDZL81tPHp82g&start_radio=1
ABRAHAM, MARTIN and JOHN
Robert Holler
Anybody here seen my old friend Abraham?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young
You know I just looked around and he's gone
Anybody here seen my old friend John?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young
I just looked around and he's gone
Anybody here seen my old friend Martin?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed a lot of people but it seems the good they die young
I just looked around and he's gone
Didn't you love the things that they stood for?
Didn't they try to find some good for you and me?
And we'll be free
Some day soon, it's gonna be one day
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up over the hill
With Abraham, Martin, and John
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayraktar_TB2
Their utility against a determined Russian attack might be relatively limited (as is the current number Ukraine possesses).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/15/ukraine-russia-drones-turkey/
… But while the drones were a “game-changer” in other battles between countries with less sophisticated military hardware, it’s unlikely they would make much of a difference against Russia, Lee said. Russia’s Defense Ministry has already posted images of training exercises for how to counter Bayraktar TB2 drones.
“If Ukraine gets into a fight with Russia, Russia will destroy them,” Lee said. “Russia could shoot them down, or even before that, they can destroy the airfields where TB2s operate, or they can destroy the ground control station.”…
Yes that is helpful, thank you, 🙂 because I remember the Salisbury poisoning that was bang out of order! Me and Everyone in my family were shouting at the TV screen and shouting at Corbyn the traitor!
Meat grinder though. Yuk.
Correct me where I’m wrong. Is this really the best way of getting our own back? Putin has made clear he’s annexing. We have made clear we are letting him. So why does there have to be a fight? I mean What’s the reality in outcome from fight first agree second rather than just peacefully agree?
I am not sure it will properly stop for years. It just moves the front line into other peoples gardens, schools, hospitals? People will just end up living miserably in a war zone getting killed as they attempt to live their lives. It’s going to be horrible and sad for all of us watching it on the news. ☹️
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Afghan_War
The Russians lost in the end, because the number of young men with no legs became noticeable even in a dictatorship.
This was how the Cold War was waged - start fighting directly and 24-36 hours in, the nuclear missiles are flying. Killing each other by proxy is so much more civilised.
This is about making the cost to Putin (and Russia) of Ukrainian real estate really high.
The alternative is fighting Putin when he decides there is a piece of another country he could really, really likes. Like, say, Latvia.
Don’t you ever thinking though It’s not a paintballing event. People will be trying to live their lives in the proxy war zone. What about them? They will turn into refugees. We will have to deflect them away with our sonar weapons. Why do we do such counterintuitive things to our own security and influence have all these proxy wars? Is proxy wars really last resort? Why don’t we have lots more peace deals?
The problem comes down to - what do you do when someone decides he wants to steal a country? Let him? Or fight?
And when he has stolen that one, what does he think of next? Tea, biscuits, which country next?
“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war."
Defence is about getting the detente right? And war also comes as soft power. Like against the Chinese and Russians to an extent, have us so reliant on oil pipe lines and investment in infrastructure, and political party funding, and allowing them to own media, are we even awake to their soft power engagement?
you say Ukrainians will fight because it’s their country. But a complicated sort of country? You explained it yourself to us very well. The border, where it’s Eastern orthodox religion and Slav ethnicity, and rest lots of Catholic with polish and Lithuanian empire history is you explained yourself few weeks ago, complicated, and difficult for a peace deal.
Difficult questions.
But does a fight actually answer the difficult questions in any durable way?
And if we are keen for a bit of revenge, and it’s a proxy war, lots of geopolitical power games proxy war, is it even still that same fight trying to answer those same timeless questions?
And the people living in the “theatre” for years. 😕
Do you see what I mean?
I might look at this and regret it when sobered up, I’m shooting from the hip. Because I’m not a pacifist. Just one proxy war after another isn’t really the last resort open to us is it, in dealing with Putin? Unless you say it is.
I’m going to call it a night now. But it’s been fun 🙋♀️
@Global_Mil_Info
Russia has started a slow departure of Russian diplomats in Ukraine. Additional Russian consulates have been told to be ready to leave, according to officials to NYT."
There are guarantees in war - Death, horror, desolation.
What would make Putin stop? Saying please? Abandoning the Eastern half of Europe, and hoping that is his last demand?
To start with what makes him stop, we need to know what makes him tick.
Let’s use your example. You are suggesting Ukraine and Latvia as much and the same thing, so Putin wants to grab them in much the same way for much the same reasons? But Latvia is mostly Protestant and then Catholic. Ukraine much more complicated, Orthodox, but various types. Just Orthodox, but not just Just Orthodox. We haven’t got all night.
Latvians Letts it be known are Baltic, not even Western Slavs. Ukrainians are very much considered Eastern Slavs. And we learn a lesson from History, the agitating French created the Crimean War with agreement with Ottomans allowing Catholic jurisdiction over Orthodox lands. So we should know to make allowances Mother Russia gets touchy over this? Early twentieth century the Germanic’s were duffing up the southern Slavs and dragged Mother Russia into something that escalated into the First World War.
I think my paragraph, by all means take it apart, if accurate gives clear guidelines what from our standpoint are no go’s for them, and what bits are a headache for both parties.
As for Putins claim there was agreement with west NATO would not encroach, and we have broken it, I think we have been sensible not to over Ukraine. We could have signed them up for NATO and flooded place with watch towers by now. As far as I’m aware we have been careful not to provoke.
In a way it could be a historic surprise if Russia doesn’t want all of Ukraine considering it Slav and orthodox make up and only wants now to partition and a cleaner border. If that really is all Russia wants, maybe Ukraine and West could negotiated border and lived in peace to see how it works. But too late now as we have clearly chosen proxy war.
Chechnya was never Slavic, for example.
"Clean border" - no, you don't want to say things like that. That's how Stalin and Hitler thought - we get a big broom and push all the "wrong" people over "there"..... Oh dear we seem to have broken a few. Never mind.....
As to Ukraine - there is quite a bit of dispute as to how much the people "liberated" by that nice Mr Putin, already, really wanted to be back in Mother Russia.
And why does Russia get to partition Ukraine? Without going through all that bothersome asking people stuff?
Or are we back in the Age of Empires? If so, I have a list of minor territorial modifications I would like. Starting with France - I want the whole lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Troyes
War it is.
Yuk. 😕
Since the Ukrainians are being sold out by the Germans - why don't we do a swap?
The Russians can have Germany, as long as they leave Ukraine alone. Why wouldn't that be an idea?
The Ukrainians can have a nice peace. And the Germans who like selling stuff to Mr Putin can get on with their thing.
Where have you all been for the past decade?
I mean, this isn't rocket science. If you invade Ukraine, then the resources of the Russian state will be used to handle the inevitable low level insurgency in Ukraine. In the 1950s, Britain realized that ruling all these countries that didn't want to be ruled by you, was a major economic negative. How hard is this to understand?
Good luck selling that.
The problem she has, is that two of them are Harry and Andrew, and they’re appointed for decades thanks to the order of succession. She wants to step back from the duties herself, but obviously doesn’t want the two black sheep anywhere near anything. Perhaps Anne and Edward would step up, if they could remove Harry and Andrew from the succession line.
What a horrible last year or two she’s had, losing her husband and two of her senior family.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10412099/Palace-officials-mull-ways-axing-Andrew-Harry-two-four-Counsellors-State.html
Sajid Javid plans NHS revolution modelled on academy schools
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sajid-javid-plans-nhs-revolution-modelled-academy-schools-w9v7j5kwm (£££)
I often think it would be a kindness to future royal generations to axe the whole thing.
No Twitter
No T20 cricket
Undoubtedly a happier time.
In 1998, a solid 88% of Russia's exports were of primary commodities: i.e. oil, gas, coal, wood (and a small amount of agriculture). Most of the rest was of refined commodities. And then there was a very small percentage that was export of "defence" products to Russian client states.
And at that time, Russia's exports were slightly greater than Belgium's.
In the past twenty years, we've had a commodities supercycle. Oil sells for 10x the price it did back in 1998. Gas is up a lot. Coal ditto.
Yet more than 85% of Russia's exports are still primary commodities. And Belgium has overtaken them.
Putin has two hobbies - accumulating money (of which he has more than anyone in Belgium) and war.
Ukraine will fight any invasion, whether we help them ir not. He is, IMO, slightly less likely to invade if we help them now.
The current situation of Russian occupied Crimea and the Grand Theft Auto statelets of Donetsk and Luhansk isn't stable or sustainable so it's going to collapse into something that is.
One might be tempted to conclude that Ukraine's 2014 borders are the preferred stable solution but the time to ensure that was 2014 not 2022.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/18/operation-rinka-rebel-tories-up-pressure-on-boris-johnson-to-resign-downing-street-parties
Is @TheScreamingEagles running this one - or just writing the Guardian headlines ?
Places like Kharkiv are more Ukranian than they used to be as a result. Though Ukraine also has its demographic challenges.
Instead, what we will get are another round of management reforms initiated by the management consultancies so beloved by politicians. I look forward to of being told how to run my clinics by wet behind the ears graduates from business school who have never had a proper job, and who have no understanding of common conditions like diabetes.
I think that he is one of the most hateful people ever in British politics. Johnson chose his nemesis and only has himself to blame.
It's like with Hitler - if we'd been willing to fight for the Saarland, then the whole Second World War might have been avoided.
One of the reasons I have doubts about Liz Truss is I was told before Christmas her leadership campaign is called Project Valkyrie after the Norse figures.
They seem oblivious to why calling an operation to oust a terrible leader called Valkyrie is ominous.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Valkyrie
The problem of retention is more at the junior end. The attrition rates of junior nurses and doctors have always been high, but worse recently. Poor retention of domestic graduates is why training is such a constant, and immigration from places like the Philippines so nessecary.
https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/pensions-and-retirement/7000-doctors-and-nurses-may-quit-nhs-by-march-unless-pension-penalties-are-suspended-1405481
Magistrates are to be given tougher sentencing powers, allowing them to jail offenders for up to a year, under plans to reduce a backlog of cases clogging the crown courts.
The reform, which will be announced today by Dominic Raab, the justice secretary, will double the maximum prison sentence that can be handed down in magistrates’ courts in England and Wales.
Penal reform campaigners described the measure as “the height of irresponsibility”, warning that it would stretch the prison system to breaking point.
Justice ministry officials predicted that the reform — which is due to come into effect within months — would free up 2,000 sitting days at crown courts and shift about 500 trials to magistrates each year.
Ministers acknowledged that it had to an extent been forced on the government, which was struggling to deal with the impact of the pandemic on the justice system.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/magistrates-power-jail-offenders-for-a-year-dominic-raab-reform-drqtwb2pj
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1483257277192802314?s=20
As I said: they get power, then decide they quite like it. I'm far from convinced they envisaged their current positions when they first got power.
Erdogan's current economic vandalism is a good example.
https://twitter.com/AntonSpisak/status/1483231441488130050?s=20
He is clearly out to enact revenge on a man he sees as completely unfit and unsuitable to be PM. And he himself has broken any concept of trust with the public after his Barnard Castle coverup. But we don't need to question what Cummings says or thinks.
What he can prove - the damning evidence - is far more compelling than any opinion he could give. We can discount Cummings and his POV because he is able to trowel on more damaging revelations with evidence.
Who would have thought that doing stupid and politically damaging things could be politically damaging? Clearly Peppa didn't. School is in and the teacher has his red pen out ...
The 16hr rule only applies to those without a 28 day break in service.
The new German foreign minister, Annalena Baerbock, sought to reassure a nervous Ukraine that she will not allow Germany to compromise on the basic principles of Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty when she meets the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, in Moscow for the first time on Tuesday.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/17/russia-ukraine-attack-german-minister-annalena-baerbock
And while gas is only a short term fix, it's the only fix they have.
Gas and Electricity costs have gone from £400 a month to £1600 a month and there is likely to be another increase. Anyone who isn't on a capped domestic rate is suffering at the moment and there is no end in sight.
Dominic Raab: “I’m not going to speculate on hypothetical situations.”
Raab: “There was speculation that the May 20 party was held in my honour to thank me, it’s just ridiculous.”
@KayBurley: So it was a party!
“No, exactly, er, no, er, the, no no no no. This is the claim that was made, it was nonsense, I wasn’t invited and I didn’t attend.”
https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/1483341767869177856