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There’s no need for a LAB-LD pact or progressive alliance – politicalbetting.com

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  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,271
    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    COVID summary

    - Cases still rising, though R has fallen back. R among the older groups is more prominent through

    image

    London's big R excursion, among the younger groups, seems to have collapsed. But cases are still rising in the older groups, there.

    image

    - Admissions are rising quite rapidly, following the increase in cases among the older groups
    - Deaths have lots of reporting delay still. Hard to say what is happening there, except that there will be a big fill in day for data at some point.

    image

    "Big fill in day" is perhaps not the best choice of words to describe backdated deaths.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Isn't the money coming from the schools themselves? (Unless US high schools are very different from UK ones.)

    "Parents believing a book violates the bill may demand school officials remove it within 30 days. If the book is not removed during this time, the school employee tasked with getting rid of it will be terminated —subject to due process— and prohibited from working at another school for at least two years

    Parents may then seek “monetary damages,” according to the bill, including a minimum of $10,000 for each day the challenged book is not removed."
    Oh how I wish I could have asked my parents to challenge Return of the Native during A- level!
    The alternative was Wuthering Heights, one of the finest tales.
    IN fairness, I'd slit my wrists if I had to reread Jude the Obscure again! But very soft spot for the Dorset novels. Had a happy day a few years back walking east of Dorchester and discovering the village church, the Roman Road of the poem, Egdon Pond and Hardy's birthplace. Oh to see the latrine where he sat and thought nihilistic thoughts.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    I think the whole of Europe needs to work in unison to say no public healthcare COVID treatment for vaccine refusers. Fuck them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,147
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    That's identical to a https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/rakxun/my_career_of_treating_patients_has_ended/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

    Not implying anything but the anti-vax brigade are utterly delusional and I don't think it's fixable.
    Well, I did say I got it from reddit...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    Saw Don't Look Up yesterday. Excellent. Required viewing for PB especially.

    Same here, and same here

    BTW I asked this the other day - any Veep fans here? Watched first 2 episodes the other night and it is certainly watchable, but does it improve from here on in?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    tlg86 said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Throw away the key.
    Name and shame them. With addresses. See how they like similar treatment

    The evil shits. I'm so fucking angry at these fuckwits. Murderous bastards.
  • tlg86 said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Throw away the key.
    Give em the jab....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    I think the whole of Europe needs to work in unison to say no public healthcare COVID treatment for vaccine refusers. Fuck them.
    For the case described by the Nurse, it's even simpler.

    Do you consent to the following package of treatment for your covid-19 infection? Do you also agree to be vaccinated on recovery? Y/N

    N and they get palliative only.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    tlg86 said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Throw away the key.
    Give em the jab....
    With one of those needles used to inject antibiotics into cattle with mastitis?
  • moonshine said:

    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?

    I did. My financial circumstances are complicated.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    I think the whole of Europe needs to work in unison to say no public healthcare COVID treatment for vaccine refusers. Fuck them.
    For the case described by the Nurse, it's even simpler.

    Do you consent to the following package of treatment for your covid-19 infection? Y/N

    N and they get palliative only.
    N and send them back home to die, even palliative care is a waste of resources on these fucks.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    The ratio of cases to deaths in the UK is notable.

    Today:
    new cases 183,037
    deaths 57

    Yesterday:
    new cases 168,306
    deaths 29

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Some info from the latest set of updated Covid stats...

    Seven day case rates by specimen date (correct as of Christmas Eve):

    Northern Ireland: 1,273 per 100,000 population (change in case rate: +82%)
    England: 1,258 (+45%)
    Wales: 1,149 (+78%)
    Scotland: 1,077 (+59%)

    The percentage change in case rate for the UK as a whole may have peaked and gone into decline, in line with the English numbers, but the most recent value (+48%, as against +69% on the 19th and 20th) is obviously still substantial at this stage.

    Hospital data from Wales haven't been updated for a week, so the UK-wide numbers are now quite out of date, but England and Scotland have both reported today and the Covid patient totals there have started to take off. Scotland appears to be up about 26% and England 48% over the last seven days. As to how much of that rise consists of people admitted for Covid, and how much is down to those admitted for any other cause and then testing positive, because the disease is evidently now rampant all over the country, I've no idea.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Andy_JS said:

    The ratio of cases to deaths in the UK is notable.

    Today:
    new cases 183,037
    deaths 57

    Yesterday:
    new cases 168,306
    deaths 29

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    No it's not - reporting delays means the data simply isn't accurate.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    moonshine said:

    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?

    I did. My financial circumstances are complicated.
    Is there a cunning way your child can avoid CGT if they sell when of age?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    And now I'm calm. ;)
  • Cue obvious jokes.
    Judging by the bios of the twats tweeting their Hogmanay in England plans, most of them are Rangers fans. Hope you enjoy helping those lads with their mental health, southron neighbours.



  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    edited December 2021
    The Guardian front page headlines the 183,000 new cases but doesn't mention the low number of deaths at 57.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Saw Don't Look Up yesterday. Excellent. Required viewing for PB especially.

    Same here, and same here

    BTW I asked this the other day - any Veep fans here? Watched first 2 episodes the other night and it is certainly watchable, but does it improve from here on in?
    I watched a few also but gave up through no fault of the prog just too much to watch so also interested.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    They have a right to protest against the actions of the government. They don’t have the right to steal stuff.

    There’s no ‘human rights’ angle to theft, that could see them bailed for years as numerous court cases wind through, they could be in prison tomorrow if they’ve been stealing stuff.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    "Every vaccine is death" one of them seems to shout.

    It is literally the opposite of the truth. 2+2 equals 5 with this bunch of utter cranks.

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Andy_JS said:

    The ratio of cases to deaths in the UK is notable.

    Today:
    new cases 183,037
    deaths 57

    Yesterday:
    new cases 168,306
    deaths 29

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Almost certainly due to backlogs in reporting.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Andy_JS said:

    The Guardian front page headlines the 183,000 new cases but doesn't mention the low number of deaths at 57.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    I somehow doubt reporting death figures to a central point is high on the list of priorities for people at Christmas.

    Death figures have long data reporting lags at the best of times let alone Christmas.

    You can talk about them as much as you want but I would simply say - incomplete data...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Endillion said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The ratio of cases to deaths in the UK is notable.

    Today:
    new cases 183,037
    deaths 57

    Yesterday:
    new cases 168,306
    deaths 29

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Almost certainly due to backlogs in reporting.
    Never mind reporting backlogs, today's new cases don't turn into deaths for, what, 2 weeks? It's meaningless to compare the numbers for the same day.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Is Scotland going to close the border to England? Because UK ministers have said they don't have a problem with Scottish revellers travelling to England, but Scottish ministers have indicated they don't approve of the idea.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    5% income tax surcharge for vaccine refusers.
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Surely this goes beyond the definition of lawful protest? To be accused of genocide by these thugs would make me so angry and heartbroken.
  • I'm very disappointed by the paucity of leading professional footballers promoting vaccination. I did see a report that Raheem Stirling has been vaxxed and though I haven't seen him actively promote it fair play to him for getting it done. Klopp's been the best of the managers on it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Oddly, I can't find one in the Offences Against the Person Act.

    Impeding ministers of religion, yes (section 36) or of somebody fleeing or assisting in a shipwreck (section 17) but not administering medicine.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    edited December 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    Keep an eye on what's going on in Italy. As I mentioned earlier, there have been rumblings about removing the negative test exemption from the Italian Covid green pass scheme.

    Should that happen then no-one who can offer proof of vaccination, recovery from infection or a proper medical exemption will be able to remain in paid employment.

    Confronting the heel diggers with financial ruin in this way would be quick, easy to administer, and has the best chance of forcing them to bend. If they go through with it, it might work.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021

    I'm very disappointed by the paucity of leading professional footballers promoting vaccination. I did see a report that Raheem Stirling has been vaxxed and though I haven't seen him actively promote it fair play to him for getting it done. Klopp's been the best of the managers on it.

    Jude Bellingham....a very impressive young man. Putting much more established senior pros to shame.
  • I'm very disappointed by the paucity of leading professional footballers promoting vaccination. I did see a report that Raheem Stirling has been vaxxed and though I haven't seen him actively promote it fair play to him for getting it done. Klopp's been the best of the managers on it.

    Jude Bellingham....a very impressive young man.
    Oh yes, I forgot about him. A shining example to our lads.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Andy_JS said:

    Is Scotland going to close the border to England? Because UK ministers have said they don't have a problem with Scottish revellers travelling to England, but Scottish ministers have indicated they don't approve of the idea.

    Just crossed the border as you posted that. As we left the Land Of The Free, a rather spooky announcement and the arrival of a firm but polite conductor.

    Everyone has deployed the water/coffee/food and the masks remain off.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,271
    Germany must be undertesting and/or underreporting severely

    24k cases, 274 deaths

    Likewise Poland

    15k cases, 755 deaths
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?

    I did. My financial circumstances are complicated.
    Is there a cunning way your child can avoid CGT if they sell when of age?
    Not easily, and the regs change so fast that it may not be worth it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,147
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
    I didn't realise one was supposed to actually understand it. I thought Ulysses was simply a collection of words in a semi-random order that existed to test the patience of the reader.

    I made it about six pages in.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    I'm very disappointed by the paucity of leading professional footballers promoting vaccination. I did see a report that Raheem Stirling has been vaxxed and though I haven't seen him actively promote it fair play to him for getting it done. Klopp's been the best of the managers on it.

    Sadly, many sportsmen appear to take the opposite view. Klopp has indeed been brilliant. If it’s correct that certain ethnic communities have issues with vaccine uptake, then we need to get people those communities see as role models, out in support of vaccination.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Leon said:

    Germany must be undertesting and/or underreporting severely

    24k cases, 274 deaths

    Likewise Poland

    15k cases, 755 deaths

    They cannot be counting the majority of Omicron cases.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,271
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
    I didn't realise one was supposed to actually understand it. I thought Ulysses was simply a collection of words in a semi-random order that existed to test the patience of the reader.

    I made it about six pages in.
    It is the only novel I have read twice

    Tho I confess I couldn't get past the third paragraph of Finnegan's Wake
  • pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    Keep an eye on what's going on in Italy. As I mentioned earlier, there have been rumblings about removing the negative test exemption from the Italian Covid green pass scheme.

    Should that happen then no-one who can offer proof of vaccination, recovery from infection or a proper medical exemption will be able to remain in paid employment.

    Confronting the heel diggers with financial ruin in this way would be quick, easy to administer, and has the best chance of forcing them to bend. If they go through with it, it might work.
    If that nurse story is true (i am exceptionally sceptical) - then surely the patient is refusing treatment, as is their right?

    They should therefore be kept comfortable and then allowed to die?
  • France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Surely this goes beyond the definition of lawful protest? To be accused of genocide by these thugs would make me so angry and heartbroken.
    The Public Order Act Section 4 and 4a might be our friend here:

    Section 4: Fear or provocation of violence.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

    (a)uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or

    (b)distributes or displays to another person any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, or to provoke the immediate use of unlawful violence by that person or another, or whereby that person is likely to believe that such violence will be used or it is likely that such violence will be provoked...

    (4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.


    Section 4a:Intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

    (a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

    (b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

    (5)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.]


    That would appear to cover it, but six months several years down the line doesn't really cover it.

    Of course, given he is spouting pure lunacy it is possible somebody could try to section him under the Mental Health Act. That might work.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    Oh dear. It's owned by a French company.

    Ferry to Zeebrugge.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Friends we were with xmas eve have covid, one of who will need some oxygen at the hospital. She should be OK but its not an incidental admission.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Perhaps significant that the New Statesman runs an article like this.

    "I backed every lockdown – but the cost of another is simply too great
    For all our talk of saving lives, we have emptied life of joy, touch, conviviality.
    By Pravina Rudra"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2021/12/i-backed-every-lockdown-but-the-cost-of-another-is-simply-too-great
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Oddly, I can't find one in the Offences Against the Person Act.

    Impeding ministers of religion, yes (section 36) or of somebody fleeing or assisting in a shipwreck (section 17) but not administering medicine.
    Interesting. Thx.

    Maybe a hole in the law here.

    Imagine a scenario where a GP does a home visit. He needs to inject Mrs Miggins with something lifesaving but her son in law keeps knocking the syringe out of the good doctor's hand.

    That's a crime right?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,271

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    Even tho France now has more cases and deaths than the UK? What a sweet and friendly neighbour we have
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    If you want an example of the current inflationary pressures - Ikea has increased some prices by 50% see https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/29/ikea-hoists-its-prices-and-blames-covid-supply-pressures
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited December 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?

    I did. My financial circumstances are complicated.
    Is there a cunning way your child can avoid CGT if they sell when of age?
    Yes. Only buy investments that fall in value.
    Only other way are gifts 7 years or more before the last parent dies.

    Farmland used to be another method but I'm not sure it's still a valid approach...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Pulpstar said:

    Friends we were with xmas eve have covid, one of who will need some oxygen at the hospital. She should be OK but its not an incidental admission.

    Sorry to hear that. May I enquire the ages?

    IMO people are stretching the 'incidental admissions' excuse to breaking point.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Is Scotland going to close the border to England? Because UK ministers have said they don't have a problem with Scottish revellers travelling to England, but Scottish ministers have indicated they don't approve of the idea.

    Expressing disapproval of an idea is not the same as forbidding it, except in the minds of hysterics. Even BJ is still trotting out his hollow entreaties that people should be careful.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,147
    Leon said:

    Germany must be undertesting and/or underreporting severely

    24k cases, 274 deaths

    Likewise Poland

    15k cases, 755 deaths

    I'm sure they're both undertesting and underreporting (in that we'll see in fill in positives to come in the coming days). I also suspect they simply don't have the LFT culture we do in the UK.

    But I also suspect that the Germans are benefiting from timing: they started their surge a little earlier, which has resulted in people pulling back from social engagements, and which means their case count was on the way down:

    https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/germany/
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    To what end? They just registered 200k cases.
  • MattW said:

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    Oh dear. It's owned by a French company.

    Ferry to Zeebrugge.
    Doesn't France want to block that route off with wind turbines?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,147
    MaxPB said:

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    To what end? They just registered 200k cases.
    We must do something.
    This is something.
    Therefore we must do this.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    5% income tax surcharge for vaccine refusers.
    Brutal triage.

    There's a case in Daily Mail website at moment. i didn't read details but seems some kid with a brain tumour who needs ICU has been bumped off by anti-vax refusers who are really ill with covid.

    Surely a doctor can prioritise the former?
  • MaxPB said:

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    To what end? They just registered 200k cases.
    Macron moule flexing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,147
    Leon said:

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    Even tho France now has more cases and deaths than the UK? What a sweet and friendly neighbour we have
    There's a big catch up in both numbers; I think you probably need to wait to see what real case numbers are next week.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    MaxPB said:

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    To what end? They just registered 200k cases.
    Macron is up for re-election next year, and is trying to blame everything on the British?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,271
    edited December 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Friends we were with xmas eve have covid, one of who will need some oxygen at the hospital. She should be OK but its not an incidental admission.

    I hope and pray your friend is OK. Hospitalisation is a real worry. Once you get into hospital the fatality rate is not trivial
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
    I didn't realise one was supposed to actually understand it. I thought Ulysses was simply a collection of words in a semi-random order that existed to test the patience of the reader.

    I made it about six pages in.
    Naah, that's Finnegans wake (no apostrophe). Ulysses is coherent grammatical English for the first 50 odd pages
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Surely this goes beyond the definition of lawful protest? To be accused of genocide by these thugs would make me so angry and heartbroken.
    The Public Order Act Section 4 and 4a might be our friend here:

    Section 4: Fear or provocation of violence.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

    (a)uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or

    (b)distributes or displays to another person any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, or to provoke the immediate use of unlawful violence by that person or another, or whereby that person is likely to believe that such violence will be used or it is likely that such violence will be provoked...

    (4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.


    Section 4a:Intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

    (a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

    (b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

    (5)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.]


    That would appear to cover it, but six months several years down the line doesn't really cover it.

    Of course, given he is spouting pure lunacy it is possible somebody could try to section him under the Mental Health Act. That might work.
    Abusive behaviour causing harassment or distress sounds like everyday behaviour on most internet blogs.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Oddly, I can't find one in the Offences Against the Person Act.

    Impeding ministers of religion, yes (section 36) or of somebody fleeing or assisting in a shipwreck (section 17) but not administering medicine.
    Interesting. Thx.

    Maybe a hole in the law here.

    Imagine a scenario where a GP does a home visit. He needs to inject Mrs Miggins with something lifesaving but her son in law keeps knocking the syringe out of the good doctor's hand.

    That's a crime right?
    Murder I'd have thought. Wouldn't it be same if Mrs Muggins' son starved her to death?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    5% income tax surcharge for vaccine refusers.
    Brutal triage.

    There's a case in Daily Mail website at moment. i didn't read details but seems some kid with a brain tumour who needs ICU has been bumped off by anti-vax refusers who are really ill with covid.

    Surely a doctor can prioritise the former?
    If I were the parents I'd finish them off myself.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Andy_JS said:

    Perhaps significant that the New Statesman runs an article like this.

    "I backed every lockdown – but the cost of another is simply too great
    For all our talk of saving lives, we have emptied life of joy, touch, conviviality.
    By Pravina Rudra"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2021/12/i-backed-every-lockdown-but-the-cost-of-another-is-simply-too-great

    Increasingly, we view Covid as our Voldemort – neither can live while the other survives. Lockdowns have become a self-perpetuating safety mechanism – if we lock down, we don’t catch Covid so we need to continue to lock down to feel safe. The mentality reminds me of overzealous dieticians seeking to rid patients of food intolerances: “have you tried just not eating anything?” We’ll stay safe from Covid if we never leave the house. And yet, given the availability of vaccines, we would largely be locking down society because of the unvaccinated. If we weren’t already in for social implosion, that’s one way to kickstart it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,147
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
    I didn't realise one was supposed to actually understand it. I thought Ulysses was simply a collection of words in a semi-random order that existed to test the patience of the reader.

    I made it about six pages in.
    It is the only novel I have read twice

    Tho I confess I couldn't get past the third paragraph of Finnegan's Wake
    When I'm sitting in an airport lounge, sleep deprived, unsure what time of day or night it is, then I find rereading novels is a perfect way to pass the time.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Pulpstar said:

    Friends we were with xmas eve have covid, one of who will need some oxygen at the hospital. She should be OK but its not an incidental admission.

    Sorry to hear that. May I enquire the ages?

    IMO people are stretching the 'incidental admissions' excuse to breaking point.
    So I don’t think this is really the case. Chris Hopson, head of NHS providers was very candid on this this morning on radio 5. Very noticeable trend in the admissions. So the idea that this is wishful thinking from uninformed people is not fair, its being observed and reported at the highest level.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,147
    Sandpit said:

    Aussie press Covid joke of the day…


    Brilliant.
  • tlg86 said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Throw away the key.
    Name and shame them. With addresses. See how they like similar treatment

    The evil shits. I'm so fucking angry at these fuckwits. Murderous bastards.
    All it would take, perhaps, is one of those booked for a booster to die of covid in say three weeks time, to be a very very serious case against these individuals? Manslaughter?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?

    I did. My financial circumstances are complicated.
    Is there a cunning way your child can avoid CGT if they sell when of age?
    Yes. Only buy investments that fall in value.
    Only other way are gifts 7 years or more before the last parent dies.

    Farmland used to be another method but I'm not sure it's still a valid approach...
    That's iht not cgt

    farmland still works for iht
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,147
    ‘Lies,’ said Vorbis evenly. ‘And it would make no difference even if they were not lies. Truth lies within, not without. In the words of the Great God Om, as delivered through his chosen prophets. Our eyes may deceive us, but our God never will.’
  • rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Aussie press Covid joke of the day…


    Brilliant.
    Brutal.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Surely this goes beyond the definition of lawful protest? To be accused of genocide by these thugs would make me so angry and heartbroken.
    The Public Order Act Section 4 and 4a might be our friend here:

    Section 4: Fear or provocation of violence.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

    (a)uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or

    (b)distributes or displays to another person any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, or to provoke the immediate use of unlawful violence by that person or another, or whereby that person is likely to believe that such violence will be used or it is likely that such violence will be provoked...

    (4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.


    Section 4a:Intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

    (a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

    (b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

    (5)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.]


    That would appear to cover it, but six months several years down the line doesn't really cover it.

    Of course, given he is spouting pure lunacy it is possible somebody could try to section him under the Mental Health Act. That might work.
    Abusive behaviour causing harassment or distress sounds like everyday behaviour on most internet blogs.
    That's hilariously wrong, Nick.

    There's a world of difference between abusive behaviour on a blog and abusive behaviour in person. Both are wrong, but the latter is an order of magnitude worse. I could call you a ***** **** on this blog and you may be offended. If I was to stand on the road outside your house and do it, you might be more concerned than offended.

    I think you'll find your Pavlovian defence of Corbyn has moved onto the 'wrong' brother ...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,271
    Summat more cheering

    "Around 1 in 23 of the population of NI have tested positive for COVID-19 in the last 30 days, nearly 2½ times higher than the winter 20/21 peak and rising. Despite this, the number of COVID patients in ICU is lower than it was at any point during August 2021."


    "Approximately 1 in 2,500 (and falling) of the people who tested positive for COVID-19 in Northern Ireland in the last 30 days now require a mechanical ventilation bed, around the same as in England. That's around a 90% fall from last winter and a 50% fall from last month."


    https://twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1476267845860397068?s=20
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    5% income tax surcharge for vaccine refusers.
    Brutal triage.

    There's a case in Daily Mail website at moment. i didn't read details but seems some kid with a brain tumour who needs ICU has been bumped off by anti-vax refusers who are really ill with covid.

    Surely a doctor can prioritise the former?
    Tales of this kind are legion. If the NHS as a system isn't, in fact, prioritising Covid patients over everyone else, regardless of the circumstances, then it's doing a good impression of it.
  • Provably law-breaking antivaxxers should be publicly shot.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
    I didn't realise one was supposed to actually understand it. I thought Ulysses was simply a collection of words in a semi-random order that existed to test the patience of the reader.

    I made it about six pages in.
    You are missing out on one of life's wondrous literary experiences.

    There is nothing fabulous about parading anti-intellecualism.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Pulpstar said:

    Friends we were with xmas eve have covid, one of who will need some oxygen at the hospital. She should be OK but its not an incidental admission.

    Sorry to hear that. May I enquire the ages?

    IMO people are stretching the 'incidental admissions' excuse to breaking point.
    So I don’t think this is really the case. Chris Hopson, head of NHS providers was very candid on this this morning on radio 5. Very noticeable trend in the admissions. So the idea that this is wishful thinking from uninformed people is not fair, its being observed and reported at the highest level.
    I didn't say that incidental admissions are not an important portion of the picture. I'm saying the attitude on here that rises in cases can be somehow ignored because of 'incidentals' is wrong.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Provably law-breaking antivaxxers should be publicly shot.

    With needles.
  • Leading Italian anti-vaxxer dies...

    ...of covid.

    Who would have thunk it could happen?

    F*ck him.

    Evolution in action.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Provably law-breaking antivaxxers should be publicly shot.

    With bullets or with the vaccine?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,147
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
    I didn't realise one was supposed to actually understand it. I thought Ulysses was simply a collection of words in a semi-random order that existed to test the patience of the reader.

    I made it about six pages in.
    You are missing out on one of life's wondrous literary experiences.

    There is nothing fabulous about parading anti-intellecualism.
    I'm not proud I didn't understand it.

    But I equally note that I will be far from the only person who failed to finish it. At what point does the author bear some responsibility, or is it all on the reader?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Leading Italian anti-vaxxer dies...

    ...of covid.

    Who would have thunk it could happen?

    F*ck him.

    Evolution in action.
    I don't want to fuck antivaxxers, there's a higher risk of getting Covid off them.
  • Provably law-breaking antivaxxers should be publicly shot.

    With needles.
    I didn't mean with bullets, but did think the lack of clarification might be a bit more menacing!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    ydoethur said:

    Provably law-breaking antivaxxers should be publicly shot.

    With bullets or with the vaccine?
    Some of them would prefer the bullet.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,317

    Cue obvious jokes.
    Judging by the bios of the twats tweeting their Hogmanay in England plans, most of them are Rangers fans. Hope you enjoy helping those lads with their mental health, southron neighbours.



    Nothing or nobody could cure those knuckle draggers.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Is everyone worried that anti vaxxers will put pressure on the NHS thus locking everyone down.

    @JosiasJessop called them murderous bastards. Who are they murdering.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
    I didn't realise one was supposed to actually understand it. I thought Ulysses was simply a collection of words in a semi-random order that existed to test the patience of the reader.

    I made it about six pages in.
    It is the only novel I have read twice

    Tho I confess I couldn't get past the third paragraph of Finnegan's Wake
    When I'm sitting in an airport lounge, sleep deprived, unsure what time of day or night it is, then I find rereading novels is a perfect way to pass the time.
    A very religious uni friend said something about the bible. He had read it many times, and at times of stress, or boredom, he would pick up a bible and read it: it relaxed him, and the familiarity of the text was like talking to a friend and time would fly.

    He also said that reading a different version of the bible was rather jarring, as he noticed the differences.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    TOPPING said:

    Is everyone worried that anti vaxxers will put pressure on the NHS thus locking everyone down.

    @JosiasJessop called them murderous bastards. Who are they murdering.

    Themselves - and anyone else who dies because ICU beds are taken / blocked by anti-vaxxers who would otherwise have not been so seriously ill.
This discussion has been closed.