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There’s no need for a LAB-LD pact or progressive alliance – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    183,000 infections and keep in mind they don't count 'reinfections'. Imagine the figures if they did right now...
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Tonight Gallowgate is posting from Alnwick Castle

    Ooh, I went to the gardens. Castle closed according to NT.Going to watch Cov vs Millwall myself
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003

    Tonight Gallowgate is posting from Alnwick Castle

    I once forded the River Aln at Alnmouth. Was just talking about it to the little 'un this morning (there was a history program about Alnmouth on the TV).
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited December 2021
    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,905
    edited December 2021
    I can't believe we still have to say this: SPECIMEN DATE is what you need to look for.

    The current max is 145,000 on the 22nd.

    However, the 27th is currently at 135,000. I think it's likely that bumps up to at least 150,000 once all the tests are counted.

    I stand by my prediction of 230,000 at some point.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    edited December 2021
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Friend's stag do next week. In London. Triple vaxxed, but thinking might be best to postpone given elderly relatives hanging around post Christmas.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Isn't the money coming from the schools themselves? (Unless US high schools are very different from UK ones.)

    "Parents believing a book violates the bill may demand school officials remove it within 30 days. If the book is not removed during this time, the school employee tasked with getting rid of it will be terminated —subject to due process— and prohibited from working at another school for at least two years

    Parents may then seek “monetary damages,” according to the bill, including a minimum of $10,000 for each day the challenged book is not removed."
    Oh how I wish I could have asked my parents to challenge Return of the Native during A- level!
    The alternative was Wuthering Heights, one of the finest tales.
    Are you saying you're not a Hardy soul?
    He was certainly seeking a Durnover in his syllabus, that's for sure.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,638
    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Thanks for this.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    You say that only because you were so disappointed ...
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    That's identical to a https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/rakxun/my_career_of_treating_patients_has_ended/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

    Not implying anything but the anti-vax brigade are utterly delusional and I don't think it's fixable.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Isn't the money coming from the schools themselves? (Unless US high schools are very different from UK ones.)

    "Parents believing a book violates the bill may demand school officials remove it within 30 days. If the book is not removed during this time, the school employee tasked with getting rid of it will be terminated —subject to due process— and prohibited from working at another school for at least two years

    Parents may then seek “monetary damages,” according to the bill, including a minimum of $10,000 for each day the challenged book is not removed."
    Oh how I wish I could have asked my parents to challenge Return of the Native during A- level!
    The alternative was Wuthering Heights, one of the finest tales.
    Are you saying you're not a Hardy soul?
    He was certainly seeking a Durnover in his syllabus, that's for sure.
    I find your allusion excessively Obscure.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Isn't the money coming from the schools themselves? (Unless US high schools are very different from UK ones.)

    "Parents believing a book violates the bill may demand school officials remove it within 30 days. If the book is not removed during this time, the school employee tasked with getting rid of it will be terminated —subject to due process— and prohibited from working at another school for at least two years

    Parents may then seek “monetary damages,” according to the bill, including a minimum of $10,000 for each day the challenged book is not removed."
    Oh how I wish I could have asked my parents to challenge Return of the Native during A- level!
    The alternative was Wuthering Heights, one of the finest tales.
    Are you saying you're not a Hardy soul?
    He was certainly seeking a Durnover in his syllabus, that's for sure.
    Or perhaps he just wished to be far from the madding crowd of third rate Victorian novels?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970

    COVID summary

    - Cases still rising, though R has fallen back. R among the older groups is more prominent through

    image

    London's big R excursion, among the younger groups, seems to have collapsed. But cases are still rising in the older groups, there.

    image

    - Admissions are rising quite rapidly, following the increase in cases among the older groups
    - Deaths have lots of reporting delay still. Hard to say what is happening there, except that there will be a big fill in day for data at some point.

    image

    "Big fill in day" is perhaps not the best choice of words to describe backdated deaths.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Isn't the money coming from the schools themselves? (Unless US high schools are very different from UK ones.)

    "Parents believing a book violates the bill may demand school officials remove it within 30 days. If the book is not removed during this time, the school employee tasked with getting rid of it will be terminated —subject to due process— and prohibited from working at another school for at least two years

    Parents may then seek “monetary damages,” according to the bill, including a minimum of $10,000 for each day the challenged book is not removed."
    Oh how I wish I could have asked my parents to challenge Return of the Native during A- level!
    The alternative was Wuthering Heights, one of the finest tales.
    IN fairness, I'd slit my wrists if I had to reread Jude the Obscure again! But very soft spot for the Dorset novels. Had a happy day a few years back walking east of Dorchester and discovering the village church, the Roman Road of the poem, Egdon Pond and Hardy's birthplace. Oh to see the latrine where he sat and thought nihilistic thoughts.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    I think the whole of Europe needs to work in unison to say no public healthcare COVID treatment for vaccine refusers. Fuck them.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    That's identical to a https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/rakxun/my_career_of_treating_patients_has_ended/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

    Not implying anything but the anti-vax brigade are utterly delusional and I don't think it's fixable.
    Well, I did say I got it from reddit...
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    Saw Don't Look Up yesterday. Excellent. Required viewing for PB especially.

    Same here, and same here

    BTW I asked this the other day - any Veep fans here? Watched first 2 episodes the other night and it is certainly watchable, but does it improve from here on in?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    tlg86 said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Throw away the key.
    Name and shame them. With addresses. See how they like similar treatment

    The evil shits. I'm so fucking angry at these fuckwits. Murderous bastards.
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Throw away the key.
    Give em the jab....
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,905
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    I think the whole of Europe needs to work in unison to say no public healthcare COVID treatment for vaccine refusers. Fuck them.
    For the case described by the Nurse, it's even simpler.

    Do you consent to the following package of treatment for your covid-19 infection? Do you also agree to be vaccinated on recovery? Y/N

    N and they get palliative only.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    tlg86 said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Throw away the key.
    Give em the jab....
    With one of those needles used to inject antibiotics into cattle with mastitis?
  • Options
    moonshine said:

    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?

    I did. My financial circumstances are complicated.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    I think the whole of Europe needs to work in unison to say no public healthcare COVID treatment for vaccine refusers. Fuck them.
    For the case described by the Nurse, it's even simpler.

    Do you consent to the following package of treatment for your covid-19 infection? Y/N

    N and they get palliative only.
    N and send them back home to die, even palliative care is a waste of resources on these fucks.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,638
    The ratio of cases to deaths in the UK is notable.

    Today:
    new cases 183,037
    deaths 57

    Yesterday:
    new cases 168,306
    deaths 29

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    Some info from the latest set of updated Covid stats...

    Seven day case rates by specimen date (correct as of Christmas Eve):

    Northern Ireland: 1,273 per 100,000 population (change in case rate: +82%)
    England: 1,258 (+45%)
    Wales: 1,149 (+78%)
    Scotland: 1,077 (+59%)

    The percentage change in case rate for the UK as a whole may have peaked and gone into decline, in line with the English numbers, but the most recent value (+48%, as against +69% on the 19th and 20th) is obviously still substantial at this stage.

    Hospital data from Wales haven't been updated for a week, so the UK-wide numbers are now quite out of date, but England and Scotland have both reported today and the Covid patient totals there have started to take off. Scotland appears to be up about 26% and England 48% over the last seven days. As to how much of that rise consists of people admitted for Covid, and how much is down to those admitted for any other cause and then testing positive, because the disease is evidently now rampant all over the country, I've no idea.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    Andy_JS said:

    The ratio of cases to deaths in the UK is notable.

    Today:
    new cases 183,037
    deaths 57

    Yesterday:
    new cases 168,306
    deaths 29

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    No it's not - reporting delays means the data simply isn't accurate.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    moonshine said:

    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?

    I did. My financial circumstances are complicated.
    Is there a cunning way your child can avoid CGT if they sell when of age?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    And now I'm calm. ;)
  • Options
    Cue obvious jokes.
    Judging by the bios of the twats tweeting their Hogmanay in England plans, most of them are Rangers fans. Hope you enjoy helping those lads with their mental health, southron neighbours.



  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,638
    edited December 2021
    The Guardian front page headlines the 183,000 new cases but doesn't mention the low number of deaths at 57.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,304
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Saw Don't Look Up yesterday. Excellent. Required viewing for PB especially.

    Same here, and same here

    BTW I asked this the other day - any Veep fans here? Watched first 2 episodes the other night and it is certainly watchable, but does it improve from here on in?
    I watched a few also but gave up through no fault of the prog just too much to watch so also interested.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    They have a right to protest against the actions of the government. They don’t have the right to steal stuff.

    There’s no ‘human rights’ angle to theft, that could see them bailed for years as numerous court cases wind through, they could be in prison tomorrow if they’ve been stealing stuff.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,638
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    "Every vaccine is death" one of them seems to shout.

    It is literally the opposite of the truth. 2+2 equals 5 with this bunch of utter cranks.

  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Andy_JS said:

    The ratio of cases to deaths in the UK is notable.

    Today:
    new cases 183,037
    deaths 57

    Yesterday:
    new cases 168,306
    deaths 29

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Almost certainly due to backlogs in reporting.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    Andy_JS said:

    The Guardian front page headlines the 183,000 new cases but doesn't mention the low number of deaths at 57.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    I somehow doubt reporting death figures to a central point is high on the list of priorities for people at Christmas.

    Death figures have long data reporting lags at the best of times let alone Christmas.

    You can talk about them as much as you want but I would simply say - incomplete data...
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Endillion said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The ratio of cases to deaths in the UK is notable.

    Today:
    new cases 183,037
    deaths 57

    Yesterday:
    new cases 168,306
    deaths 29

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Almost certainly due to backlogs in reporting.
    Never mind reporting backlogs, today's new cases don't turn into deaths for, what, 2 weeks? It's meaningless to compare the numbers for the same day.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,638
    Is Scotland going to close the border to England? Because UK ministers have said they don't have a problem with Scottish revellers travelling to England, but Scottish ministers have indicated they don't approve of the idea.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    5% income tax surcharge for vaccine refusers.
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Surely this goes beyond the definition of lawful protest? To be accused of genocide by these thugs would make me so angry and heartbroken.
  • Options
    I'm very disappointed by the paucity of leading professional footballers promoting vaccination. I did see a report that Raheem Stirling has been vaxxed and though I haven't seen him actively promote it fair play to him for getting it done. Klopp's been the best of the managers on it.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Oddly, I can't find one in the Offences Against the Person Act.

    Impeding ministers of religion, yes (section 36) or of somebody fleeing or assisting in a shipwreck (section 17) but not administering medicine.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    edited December 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    Keep an eye on what's going on in Italy. As I mentioned earlier, there have been rumblings about removing the negative test exemption from the Italian Covid green pass scheme.

    Should that happen then no-one who can offer proof of vaccination, recovery from infection or a proper medical exemption will be able to remain in paid employment.

    Confronting the heel diggers with financial ruin in this way would be quick, easy to administer, and has the best chance of forcing them to bend. If they go through with it, it might work.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited December 2021

    I'm very disappointed by the paucity of leading professional footballers promoting vaccination. I did see a report that Raheem Stirling has been vaxxed and though I haven't seen him actively promote it fair play to him for getting it done. Klopp's been the best of the managers on it.

    Jude Bellingham....a very impressive young man. Putting much more established senior pros to shame.
  • Options

    I'm very disappointed by the paucity of leading professional footballers promoting vaccination. I did see a report that Raheem Stirling has been vaxxed and though I haven't seen him actively promote it fair play to him for getting it done. Klopp's been the best of the managers on it.

    Jude Bellingham....a very impressive young man.
    Oh yes, I forgot about him. A shining example to our lads.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,905
    Andy_JS said:

    Is Scotland going to close the border to England? Because UK ministers have said they don't have a problem with Scottish revellers travelling to England, but Scottish ministers have indicated they don't approve of the idea.

    Just crossed the border as you posted that. As we left the Land Of The Free, a rather spooky announcement and the arrival of a firm but polite conductor.

    Everyone has deployed the water/coffee/food and the masks remain off.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    Germany must be undertesting and/or underreporting severely

    24k cases, 274 deaths

    Likewise Poland

    15k cases, 755 deaths
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,548
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?

    I did. My financial circumstances are complicated.
    Is there a cunning way your child can avoid CGT if they sell when of age?
    Not easily, and the regs change so fast that it may not be worth it.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
    I didn't realise one was supposed to actually understand it. I thought Ulysses was simply a collection of words in a semi-random order that existed to test the patience of the reader.

    I made it about six pages in.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    I'm very disappointed by the paucity of leading professional footballers promoting vaccination. I did see a report that Raheem Stirling has been vaxxed and though I haven't seen him actively promote it fair play to him for getting it done. Klopp's been the best of the managers on it.

    Sadly, many sportsmen appear to take the opposite view. Klopp has indeed been brilliant. If it’s correct that certain ethnic communities have issues with vaccine uptake, then we need to get people those communities see as role models, out in support of vaccination.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,638
    Leon said:

    Germany must be undertesting and/or underreporting severely

    24k cases, 274 deaths

    Likewise Poland

    15k cases, 755 deaths

    They cannot be counting the majority of Omicron cases.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
    I didn't realise one was supposed to actually understand it. I thought Ulysses was simply a collection of words in a semi-random order that existed to test the patience of the reader.

    I made it about six pages in.
    It is the only novel I have read twice

    Tho I confess I couldn't get past the third paragraph of Finnegan's Wake
  • Options
    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    Keep an eye on what's going on in Italy. As I mentioned earlier, there have been rumblings about removing the negative test exemption from the Italian Covid green pass scheme.

    Should that happen then no-one who can offer proof of vaccination, recovery from infection or a proper medical exemption will be able to remain in paid employment.

    Confronting the heel diggers with financial ruin in this way would be quick, easy to administer, and has the best chance of forcing them to bend. If they go through with it, it might work.
    If that nurse story is true (i am exceptionally sceptical) - then surely the patient is refusing treatment, as is their right?

    They should therefore be kept comfortable and then allowed to die?
  • Options
    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Surely this goes beyond the definition of lawful protest? To be accused of genocide by these thugs would make me so angry and heartbroken.
    The Public Order Act Section 4 and 4a might be our friend here:

    Section 4: Fear or provocation of violence.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

    (a)uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or

    (b)distributes or displays to another person any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, or to provoke the immediate use of unlawful violence by that person or another, or whereby that person is likely to believe that such violence will be used or it is likely that such violence will be provoked...

    (4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.


    Section 4a:Intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

    (a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

    (b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

    (5)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.]


    That would appear to cover it, but six months several years down the line doesn't really cover it.

    Of course, given he is spouting pure lunacy it is possible somebody could try to section him under the Mental Health Act. That might work.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,548

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    Oh dear. It's owned by a French company.

    Ferry to Zeebrugge.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Friends we were with xmas eve have covid, one of who will need some oxygen at the hospital. She should be OK but its not an incidental admission.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,638
    Perhaps significant that the New Statesman runs an article like this.

    "I backed every lockdown – but the cost of another is simply too great
    For all our talk of saving lives, we have emptied life of joy, touch, conviviality.
    By Pravina Rudra"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2021/12/i-backed-every-lockdown-but-the-cost-of-another-is-simply-too-great
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Oddly, I can't find one in the Offences Against the Person Act.

    Impeding ministers of religion, yes (section 36) or of somebody fleeing or assisting in a shipwreck (section 17) but not administering medicine.
    Interesting. Thx.

    Maybe a hole in the law here.

    Imagine a scenario where a GP does a home visit. He needs to inject Mrs Miggins with something lifesaving but her son in law keeps knocking the syringe out of the good doctor's hand.

    That's a crime right?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    Even tho France now has more cases and deaths than the UK? What a sweet and friendly neighbour we have
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    If you want an example of the current inflationary pressures - Ikea has increased some prices by 50% see https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/29/ikea-hoists-its-prices-and-blames-covid-supply-pressures
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    edited December 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?

    I did. My financial circumstances are complicated.
    Is there a cunning way your child can avoid CGT if they sell when of age?
    Yes. Only buy investments that fall in value.
    Only other way are gifts 7 years or more before the last parent dies.

    Farmland used to be another method but I'm not sure it's still a valid approach...
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    Pulpstar said:

    Friends we were with xmas eve have covid, one of who will need some oxygen at the hospital. She should be OK but its not an incidental admission.

    Sorry to hear that. May I enquire the ages?

    IMO people are stretching the 'incidental admissions' excuse to breaking point.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    Is Scotland going to close the border to England? Because UK ministers have said they don't have a problem with Scottish revellers travelling to England, but Scottish ministers have indicated they don't approve of the idea.

    Expressing disapproval of an idea is not the same as forbidding it, except in the minds of hysterics. Even BJ is still trotting out his hollow entreaties that people should be careful.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995
    Leon said:

    Germany must be undertesting and/or underreporting severely

    24k cases, 274 deaths

    Likewise Poland

    15k cases, 755 deaths

    I'm sure they're both undertesting and underreporting (in that we'll see in fill in positives to come in the coming days). I also suspect they simply don't have the LFT culture we do in the UK.

    But I also suspect that the Germans are benefiting from timing: they started their surge a little earlier, which has resulted in people pulling back from social engagements, and which means their case count was on the way down:

    https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/germany/
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    To what end? They just registered 200k cases.
  • Options
    MattW said:

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    Oh dear. It's owned by a French company.

    Ferry to Zeebrugge.
    Doesn't France want to block that route off with wind turbines?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995
    MaxPB said:

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    To what end? They just registered 200k cases.
    We must do something.
    This is something.
    Therefore we must do this.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    5% income tax surcharge for vaccine refusers.
    Brutal triage.

    There's a case in Daily Mail website at moment. i didn't read details but seems some kid with a brain tumour who needs ICU has been bumped off by anti-vax refusers who are really ill with covid.

    Surely a doctor can prioritise the former?
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    To what end? They just registered 200k cases.
    Macron moule flexing.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995
    Leon said:

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    Even tho France now has more cases and deaths than the UK? What a sweet and friendly neighbour we have
    There's a big catch up in both numbers; I think you probably need to wait to see what real case numbers are next week.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    MaxPB said:

    France bans British residents of - for example, Belgium, from using EuroTunnel to drive from UK to Belgium as they have to transit France - and only French residents are allowed to land in France:

    https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

    To what end? They just registered 200k cases.
    Macron is up for re-election next year, and is trying to blame everything on the British?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    edited December 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Friends we were with xmas eve have covid, one of who will need some oxygen at the hospital. She should be OK but its not an incidental admission.

    I hope and pray your friend is OK. Hospitalisation is a real worry. Once you get into hospital the fatality rate is not trivial
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
    I didn't realise one was supposed to actually understand it. I thought Ulysses was simply a collection of words in a semi-random order that existed to test the patience of the reader.

    I made it about six pages in.
    Naah, that's Finnegans wake (no apostrophe). Ulysses is coherent grammatical English for the first 50 odd pages
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,336
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Surely this goes beyond the definition of lawful protest? To be accused of genocide by these thugs would make me so angry and heartbroken.
    The Public Order Act Section 4 and 4a might be our friend here:

    Section 4: Fear or provocation of violence.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

    (a)uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or

    (b)distributes or displays to another person any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, or to provoke the immediate use of unlawful violence by that person or another, or whereby that person is likely to believe that such violence will be used or it is likely that such violence will be provoked...

    (4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.


    Section 4a:Intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

    (a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

    (b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

    (5)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.]


    That would appear to cover it, but six months several years down the line doesn't really cover it.

    Of course, given he is spouting pure lunacy it is possible somebody could try to section him under the Mental Health Act. That might work.
    Abusive behaviour causing harassment or distress sounds like everyday behaviour on most internet blogs.
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Oddly, I can't find one in the Offences Against the Person Act.

    Impeding ministers of religion, yes (section 36) or of somebody fleeing or assisting in a shipwreck (section 17) but not administering medicine.
    Interesting. Thx.

    Maybe a hole in the law here.

    Imagine a scenario where a GP does a home visit. He needs to inject Mrs Miggins with something lifesaving but her son in law keeps knocking the syringe out of the good doctor's hand.

    That's a crime right?
    Murder I'd have thought. Wouldn't it be same if Mrs Muggins' son starved her to death?
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,905

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    5% income tax surcharge for vaccine refusers.
    Brutal triage.

    There's a case in Daily Mail website at moment. i didn't read details but seems some kid with a brain tumour who needs ICU has been bumped off by anti-vax refusers who are really ill with covid.

    Surely a doctor can prioritise the former?
    If I were the parents I'd finish them off myself.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    Andy_JS said:

    Perhaps significant that the New Statesman runs an article like this.

    "I backed every lockdown – but the cost of another is simply too great
    For all our talk of saving lives, we have emptied life of joy, touch, conviviality.
    By Pravina Rudra"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2021/12/i-backed-every-lockdown-but-the-cost-of-another-is-simply-too-great

    Increasingly, we view Covid as our Voldemort – neither can live while the other survives. Lockdowns have become a self-perpetuating safety mechanism – if we lock down, we don’t catch Covid so we need to continue to lock down to feel safe. The mentality reminds me of overzealous dieticians seeking to rid patients of food intolerances: “have you tried just not eating anything?” We’ll stay safe from Covid if we never leave the house. And yet, given the availability of vaccines, we would largely be locking down society because of the unvaccinated. If we weren’t already in for social implosion, that’s one way to kickstart it.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    As we are discussing stupid things have we covered Oklahoma trying to use the Texas abortion fines to remove books from Oklahoma schools

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/587517-oklahoma-lawmaker-introduces-book-banning-bill

    I'm so looking forward to the removal of every book from every school and watching the teachers try and teach from nothing.

    Unsurprisingly. Banning books gives them a certain cachet amongst young people.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/dec/23/us-book-bans-conservative-parents-reading
    Local bookseller on a book which wasn't even in the school library (except as an ebook):

    '“It was not easy to find a box full of 33 Snowfish, but we did,” he continues. “We sold all that we bought, and we kept a couple as loaners because we wanted to make sure any students in the community could see what the fuss was about. There will always be some around.”

    It’s now easier than ever to read 33 Snowfish in Spotsylvania county [...]'
    Oh it's publicity gold to an author when their book is banned - it wouldn't surprise me if agents sought to get their author's books banned just for the publicity it generates.
    When The Well of Loneliness was banned, Virginia Wolff and Compton Mackenzie were furious that Orlando and Extraordinary Women were not banned at the same time. They felt cheated out of the extra sales a court case would produce.

    Oddly, Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned at the same time, and not republished for 30 years. And when it was finally published in 1959 the trial caused sales to rocket. Huge numbers of copies were being passed round schools in the hope that they would find the naughty bits.

    The key thing linking them of course is that they were all otherwise notably undistinguished books.
    See also the Satanic Verses which I've found unreadable both times I've attempted to start it.
    The most comical one I worked on was Ulysses, which escaped a formal ban because the lawyer assessing it at the request of the Home Office admitted he had been totally unable to read it. Instead, they launched proceedings under various post office regulations as far as can be judged simply to annoy James Joyce.

    Quite amazingly, there is a record of an American magistrate who had somehow read and understood it.
    I didn't realise one was supposed to actually understand it. I thought Ulysses was simply a collection of words in a semi-random order that existed to test the patience of the reader.

    I made it about six pages in.
    It is the only novel I have read twice

    Tho I confess I couldn't get past the third paragraph of Finnegan's Wake
    When I'm sitting in an airport lounge, sleep deprived, unsure what time of day or night it is, then I find rereading novels is a perfect way to pass the time.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,200

    Pulpstar said:

    Friends we were with xmas eve have covid, one of who will need some oxygen at the hospital. She should be OK but its not an incidental admission.

    Sorry to hear that. May I enquire the ages?

    IMO people are stretching the 'incidental admissions' excuse to breaking point.
    So I don’t think this is really the case. Chris Hopson, head of NHS providers was very candid on this this morning on radio 5. Very noticeable trend in the admissions. So the idea that this is wishful thinking from uninformed people is not fair, its being observed and reported at the highest level.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995
    Sandpit said:

    Aussie press Covid joke of the day…


    Brilliant.
  • Options

    tlg86 said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Throw away the key.
    Name and shame them. With addresses. See how they like similar treatment

    The evil shits. I'm so fucking angry at these fuckwits. Murderous bastards.
    All it would take, perhaps, is one of those booked for a booster to die of covid in say three weeks time, to be a very very serious case against these individuals? Manslaughter?
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    TSE: is there some cunning tax efficient mechanism you used for that?

    I did. My financial circumstances are complicated.
    Is there a cunning way your child can avoid CGT if they sell when of age?
    Yes. Only buy investments that fall in value.
    Only other way are gifts 7 years or more before the last parent dies.

    Farmland used to be another method but I'm not sure it's still a valid approach...
    That's iht not cgt

    farmland still works for iht
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995
    ‘Lies,’ said Vorbis evenly. ‘And it would make no difference even if they were not lies. Truth lies within, not without. In the words of the Great God Om, as delivered through his chosen prophets. Our eyes may deceive us, but our God never will.’
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Aussie press Covid joke of the day…


    Brilliant.
    Brutal.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    FFS....

    A group of anti-vaccine activists led by Jeff Wyatt and Piers Corbyn entered an NHS test and trace centre in Milton Keynes today, shouted abuse at staff and took some of the equipment.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1476232714328154127?t=Egr5_GjC6RPUt3eFuIGCPQ&s=19

    Lock'em up.....

    Ooh, can we get them for theft? That’s a much easier decision for a magistrate to make.
    We don't want these bastards put away for theft, we want them put away for life. That's a but beyond the competency of a magistrate.
    PB lawyers: is there an offence of interfering with medical treatment?

    Must be something archaic that can be thrown at these loons?
    Surely this goes beyond the definition of lawful protest? To be accused of genocide by these thugs would make me so angry and heartbroken.
    The Public Order Act Section 4 and 4a might be our friend here:

    Section 4: Fear or provocation of violence.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

    (a)uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or

    (b)distributes or displays to another person any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, or to provoke the immediate use of unlawful violence by that person or another, or whereby that person is likely to believe that such violence will be used or it is likely that such violence will be provoked...

    (4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.


    Section 4a:Intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

    (a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

    (b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

    thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

    (5)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.]


    That would appear to cover it, but six months several years down the line doesn't really cover it.

    Of course, given he is spouting pure lunacy it is possible somebody could try to section him under the Mental Health Act. That might work.
    Abusive behaviour causing harassment or distress sounds like everyday behaviour on most internet blogs.
    That's hilariously wrong, Nick.

    There's a world of difference between abusive behaviour on a blog and abusive behaviour in person. Both are wrong, but the latter is an order of magnitude worse. I could call you a ***** **** on this blog and you may be offended. If I was to stand on the road outside your house and do it, you might be more concerned than offended.

    I think you'll find your Pavlovian defence of Corbyn has moved onto the 'wrong' brother ...
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    Summat more cheering

    "Around 1 in 23 of the population of NI have tested positive for COVID-19 in the last 30 days, nearly 2½ times higher than the winter 20/21 peak and rising. Despite this, the number of COVID patients in ICU is lower than it was at any point during August 2021."


    "Approximately 1 in 2,500 (and falling) of the people who tested positive for COVID-19 in Northern Ireland in the last 30 days now require a mechanical ventilation bed, around the same as in England. That's around a 90% fall from last winter and a 50% fall from last month."


    https://twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1476267845860397068?s=20
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An Italian nurse writes on Reddit:

    I am from the north of Italy and many of you will remember how our area was deeply hit at the beginning. I did my part joining the frontline (at the time I was assigned to surgery) without any protection, I recall putting trash bags over my uniform, 3 surgical mask on top of each other and accessing those rooms full of pronated people with chin lesions hooked to ventilators I've never even saw during nursing school. People confused and gasping from the lack of O2, people allucinating with burning fever, people without proper ventilation because there where simply no more machines.

    At the time I had already seen my share of deaths on duty since I graduated a few years ago, but there was something hunting in watching a person suffocating, eyes rotating and all, without being able to help them. It was excruciating, but those people never had a choice, they were infected in a time when we didn't know much nor we had the instruments we have now, so there was just sadness for their situation in my heart and the best I could do for them was providing the best care I was capable of, every day at 101% and I always went back home exhausted but I knew I made my part in trying to make those people less miserable and maybe contributing in saving a few of them.

    As many of us who were deeply affected and risked for months without proper gear, I got some professional help to cope with so much death.

    But now things have changed. Now most of ICU patients are Unvaxxed people who will literally try to rip your gear off when you approach them with a syringe (insuline syringe, cortisonic drugs are heavily used to try to keep the inflammation under control but will increase your sugar blood level) because they fear you will inoculate them with the vaccine. I am talking about barely alive people chained to 6 iv pumps with heavy drugs, a ventilator, with a catheter in every hole. But still they will spit on you, calling you a "government sheep" for trying to keep them alive. Keeping on all the gear you guys largely saw on TV for hours and hours to provide care to those people is making me consider to quit my job and never hear of an hospital again, expecially because they are yeeting themself into coffins but they obviously still cause societal harm and this is always in the back of my mind when providing care to them. They had a choice, they had time, they choose to not to be vaccinated, they are using hospitals funds and being generally horrible with the staff, while on the first wave people were grateful at us trying to give them some dignity, and covid caregiving wasn't as developed as now so it's a paradox but Unvaxxed people have also better care than those who were hit and died with the first wave because now hospitals are equipped and staff is far more experienced in the matter.

    Do you have any advice to try to cope with those people? Sorry for any typo I've might have written, I am on my phone.

    Assuming it is true: Bloody hell

    And still we pussy around with the anti-vaxxers. Grrr
    Maybe it's time for vaccine refuseniks to contribute towards the cost of their hospital treatment if they can afford to do so (and there were no medical reasons for them to refuse the jab).
    Tax them. Tax them all. If they're on benefits, reduce their benefits.
    5% income tax surcharge for vaccine refusers.
    Brutal triage.

    There's a case in Daily Mail website at moment. i didn't read details but seems some kid with a brain tumour who needs ICU has been bumped off by anti-vax refusers who are really ill with covid.

    Surely a doctor can prioritise the former?
    Tales of this kind are legion. If the NHS as a system isn't, in fact, prioritising Covid patients over everyone else, regardless of the circumstances, then it's doing a good impression of it.
This discussion has been closed.