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North Shropshire: Betting with a clean slate – politicalbetting.com

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    The New Zealand proposals are certainly interesting.
  • RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    RobD said:

    And many say Starmer is not responsible. But Labour is polling 40 now, when Corbyn left it was as low as 26.

    Starmer has rebuilt the 40% coalition that is essentially key to Labour forcing a Hung Parliament. If he can built to 43% he’ll be onto majority territory.

    I have never underestimated how good he could be.

    Why so excitable? Starmer was at 40%+ late last year.
    It is the Tory share against that 40% which is key though.
    But what's that go to to with Starmer apparently having rebuilt the 40% coalition, which was already there 12 months ago.
    I would suggest that with right leader and policies, as shown by Drakeford in Wales last year, Labour can get a result it could only dream about, so 40% is not necessarily top dollar.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Verstappen on soft tyres tomorrow, Hamilton on the mediums. Makes final qualifying even more key. If MV is not on pole so he can dance away on the faster tyre he is going to be in trouble.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Commiserations to @RochdalePioneers

    If it’s any consolation (almost certainly not) we are ALL going to get Omicron or know someone very close who gets it, in the next few weeks

    Best bet is to view all plans as “contingent”. Make everything cancellable with full refund. Expect nothing for certain

    eg I’m still meant to be flying to Ibiza tomorrow. Will it happen? 🤷‍♂️

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    I assume then you are against legalisation of cannabis?
    No, that's fine. All I do is Marlboro Golds.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    These Red Wall sub-samples from the latest YouGov spell smelly pants time for Conservative strategists. Looks like their vote is retreating to their traditional heartland: the south of England.

    North: Lab 45% Con 32%
    Midlands/Wales: Lab 37% Con 35%
    London: Lab 47% Con 24%
    Rest of South: Con 38% Lab 34%
    Scotland: SNP 51% Con 26% Lab 13%

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/dpbft003db/TheTimes_VI_211209_W.pdf

    So Conservatives actually up in Scotland on 2019 then, even if down in England and still ahead in their heartland of the South.

    The Conservatives can win a narrow majority or most seats without the Northern RedWall they got in 2019 but they do need to win the Midlands/Wales to do so. Fortunately on those numbers the Tories are still doing better in the Midlands/Wales than they are nationally, even if Labour are now narrowly ahead there
    Scottish Conservative voting intention = significant
    SNP voting intention = irrelevant

    What a strange world True Blue Tories inhabitant.
    Is there a world where the Conservatives get a higher % in Scotland than in the rest of the country? I can't even begin to work out the consequences of that happening but I'm certain it would be hilarious.
    Mass full frontal lobotomy would be the precondition.
    I dunno, a successful cannibalism of their English vote by a resurgent Faragist party, plus a little increase in tactical Tories north of the wall... it just within the realms of the possible. It would be madly fascinating.
    Aha. I kind of misread your post. Now I see what you mean.

    It would require the Scons to get up to the mid 30s at the same time as Tory support nosedived in their southern English heartland. I just can’t envisage it. History tells us that SCon support has a ceiling below 30, and I’m struggling to see a scenario where they are super popular in Scotland while simultaneously personae non grata in the Home Counties.
    You're probably right. I just love the idea of it. A red England and a blue and yellow Scotland would be... wild.
    Like the Romanian Air Force roundel.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    The New Zealand proposals are certainly interesting.
    They are - but they don't help me.
  • Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    These Red Wall sub-samples from the latest YouGov spell smelly pants time for Conservative strategists. Looks like their vote is retreating to their traditional heartland: the south of England.

    North: Lab 45% Con 32%
    Midlands/Wales: Lab 37% Con 35%
    London: Lab 47% Con 24%
    Rest of South: Con 38% Lab 34%
    Scotland: SNP 51% Con 26% Lab 13%

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/dpbft003db/TheTimes_VI_211209_W.pdf

    So Conservatives actually up in Scotland on 2019 then, even if down in England and still ahead in their heartland of the South.

    The Conservatives can win a narrow majority or most seats without the Northern RedWall they got in 2019 but they do need to win the Midlands/Wales to do so. Fortunately on those numbers the Tories are still doing better in the Midlands/Wales than they are nationally, even if Labour are now narrowly ahead there
    Scottish Conservative voting intention = significant
    SNP voting intention = irrelevant

    What a strange world True Blue Tories inhabitant.
    Is there a world where the Conservatives get a higher % in Scotland than in the rest of the country? I can't even begin to work out the consequences of that happening but I'm certain it would be hilarious.
    Mass full frontal lobotomy would be the precondition.
    I dunno, a successful cannibalism of their English vote by a resurgent Faragist party, plus a little increase in tactical Tories north of the wall... it just within the realms of the possible. It would be madly fascinating.
    Aha. I kind of misread your post. Now I see what you mean.

    It would require the Scons to get up to the mid 30s at the same time as Tory support nosedived in their southern English heartland. I just can’t envisage it. History tells us that SCon support has a ceiling below 30, and I’m struggling to see a scenario where they are super popular in Scotland while simultaneously personae non grata in the Home Counties.
    I can: SCUP campaign for indy. Of the nation as well as their own party.

    It's a formulatable scenario, but not terribly likely till a tipping point is reached for other reasins (self-preservation).
    Now you’re thinking outside the box!
  • Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    These Red Wall sub-samples from the latest YouGov spell smelly pants time for Conservative strategists. Looks like their vote is retreating to their traditional heartland: the south of England.

    North: Lab 45% Con 32%
    Midlands/Wales: Lab 37% Con 35%
    London: Lab 47% Con 24%
    Rest of South: Con 38% Lab 34%
    Scotland: SNP 51% Con 26% Lab 13%

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/dpbft003db/TheTimes_VI_211209_W.pdf

    Doesn't look particularly robust even in "Rest of South"
    The Midlands is becoming the Tory heartlands. Given I'd expect a sizeable Lab lead in Wales, they must be in front there.
    Still open to a convincing explanation as to why.
    Urban Midlands is still pretty red, between traditional urban voters, ethnic voters and universities. It is the medium sized towns and shires that have swallowed Brexitism. A lot is demographic* but also the decline of manufacturing and mining employment.

    *Starmer needs to be making inroads with grey voters as much or more than with geographic regions. If the over 65s switch substantially to Labour we are in landslide territory.
    Which is why the libertarians here are going to be very disappointed if they think Starmer will vote against vaxports.
    Lockdown, closing nightclubs, shutting down international travel etc. is most popular with Leave-voting pensioners who never frequent a club or an airport.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2021
    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    The New Zealand proposals are certainly interesting.
    I does raise an interesting issue, surely it goes against natural justice to have laws that only apply to adults of particular ages?

    I think they’ll find it very difficult to prosecute when it finally comes in. By then Adern will probably be long gone though, so implementation issues become someone else’s problem.

    It’s bad legislation, imo.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    DavidL said:

    Verstappen on soft tyres tomorrow, Hamilton on the mediums. Makes final qualifying even more key. If MV is not on pole so he can dance away on the faster tyre he is going to be in trouble.

    Really hoping both Mercs get in front. After the last race we know what the RBR strategy is going to be.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812




    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Might put a few quid on Labour majority

    Trouble is that it kind of relies upon Johnson still being in charge at the next election. I am not saying Starmer couldn't win against anyone else but it makes it far less likely. For all that I have time for Starmer, right now Labour's biggest asset is the man sat inside No.10.
    I think it is highly likely Johnson leads them into the next election
    You are probably right. But that is not really enough for me to commit any money to it. The rewards may be greater backing a horse this far out but the risks are also far greater.
    You can back me, I am a Horse :)
    The lady had a donkey that everyone admired,
    It was temporarily lazy,
    It was permanently tired,
    A leg on every corner,
    A balance in its head
    And a tail to let you know where it wanted to be fed.
    Neigh!

    Are you well David?
    Got my brain scan yesterday. Hopeful they will find one. Find out in 2 weeks.
    Why so long?

    Hope all turns out to be well.
    Dunno. 14 days means Christmas eve so we will see then.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited December 2021

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    These Red Wall sub-samples from the latest YouGov spell smelly pants time for Conservative strategists. Looks like their vote is retreating to their traditional heartland: the south of England.

    North: Lab 45% Con 32%
    Midlands/Wales: Lab 37% Con 35%
    London: Lab 47% Con 24%
    Rest of South: Con 38% Lab 34%
    Scotland: SNP 51% Con 26% Lab 13%

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/dpbft003db/TheTimes_VI_211209_W.pdf

    So Conservatives actually up in Scotland on 2019 then, even if down in England and still ahead in their heartland of the South.

    The Conservatives can win a narrow majority or most seats without the Northern RedWall they got in 2019 but they do need to win the Midlands/Wales to do so. Fortunately on those numbers the Tories are still doing better in the Midlands/Wales than they are nationally, even if Labour are now narrowly ahead there
    Scottish Conservative voting intention = significant
    SNP voting intention = irrelevant

    What a strange world True Blue Tories inhabitant.
    Is there a world where the Conservatives get a higher % in Scotland than in the rest of the country? I can't even begin to work out the consequences of that happening but I'm certain it would be hilarious.
    Mass full frontal lobotomy would be the precondition.
    I dunno, a successful cannibalism of their English vote by a resurgent Faragist party, plus a little increase in tactical Tories north of the wall... it just within the realms of the possible. It would be madly fascinating.
    Aha. I kind of misread your post. Now I see what you mean.

    It would require the Scons to get up to the mid 30s at the same time as Tory support nosedived in their southern English heartland. I just can’t envisage it. History tells us that SCon support has a ceiling below 30, and I’m struggling to see a scenario where they are super popular in Scotland while simultaneously personae non grata in the Home Counties.
    I can: SCUP campaign for indy. Of the nation as well as their own party.

    It's a formulatable scenario, but not terribly likely till a tipping point is reached for other reasins (self-preservation).
    Now you’re thinking outside the box!
    Just thinking about the notion that Unionist = modern Tory; that's literally the equivalent of arguing that the DUP are automatically Conservative & Unionist Party. Not least because Scotland was a hell of a lot more sectarian in the 1950s with a much worse political division based in part on immigration from Ireland and RC affiliation vs Protestant nativists. And 'Unionist' in Unionist then meant Ulster Unionism.

    PS There was that chap who used to sound off at the foot of the Mound in Edinburgh - John Cormack? Jack Glass? along such lines.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Leon said:

    I made this comment last night at about 11pm



    “I reckon its time to play PB PLAGUE PREDICTIONS BINGO

    The world is teetering on the abyss. This could all blow over in a week and we go back to worrying about Boris's bald patch OR human civilisation will be snuffed out like a candle at Christingle, probably around Christingle

    In that light, what do we predict? I'll go first


    Lockdown: YES

    Lockdown when: introduced incrementally, but fast. Plan C from about mid December, Plan Z (a harsh lockdown) from around Jan 1

    Lockdown how long: not long. It won't do much. 3-4 weeks

    UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000

    UK deaths in the same period: 49,000”


    Interestingly it turns out I am bang in the middle of expert predictions:


    “In the most optimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has low immune escape and booster jabs are highly effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    20.9 million infections
    175,000 hospital admissions
    24,700 deaths

    In the most pessimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has high immune escape and booster jabs are less effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    34.2 million infections
    492,000 hospital admissions
    74,900 deaths”

    Sometimes I scare MYSELF

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59621029

    "UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000"

    What does that mean? I presume you mean the total of UK daily new hospitalisations due to Covid? If so that's 310,000/15 weeks = 20,666 per week on average. (About 800 currently)
  • I think if you propose that the new Tory/ex Labour voters are anti lockdowns and vaccine passports, the Tories have fundamentally misunderstood their new voters.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    DavidL said:




    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Might put a few quid on Labour majority

    Trouble is that it kind of relies upon Johnson still being in charge at the next election. I am not saying Starmer couldn't win against anyone else but it makes it far less likely. For all that I have time for Starmer, right now Labour's biggest asset is the man sat inside No.10.
    I think it is highly likely Johnson leads them into the next election
    You are probably right. But that is not really enough for me to commit any money to it. The rewards may be greater backing a horse this far out but the risks are also far greater.
    You can back me, I am a Horse :)
    The lady had a donkey that everyone admired,
    It was temporarily lazy,
    It was permanently tired,
    A leg on every corner,
    A balance in its head
    And a tail to let you know where it wanted to be fed.
    Neigh!

    Are you well David?
    Got my brain scan yesterday. Hopeful they will find one. Find out in 2 weeks.
    Why so long?

    Hope all turns out to be well.
    Dunno. 14 days means Christmas eve so we will see then.
    Christmas Eve. That’s tough

    Best of British luck
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited December 2021
    Do we have any proposals for how the Foreign Office reductions will be distributed, yet?

    Here's a Euro-type jumping to conclusions and wandering out on a plank:

    The UK government is so deeply committed to building a global role for Britain that it is cutting its diplomatic service by 20%
    A 20% cut after several waves of previous cuts means prioritisation of UK diplomatic resources on a handful of key partners and adversaries at expense of a minimum to negligible UK diplomatic presence in large parts of the world, many of which are crucial to global development
    The FCDO is on track to becoming just another middle power diplomatic service, with the same reach and ambitions as Canadian or Italian counterparts. Which is still pretty OK in global comparison but does jar with FCDO and UK elite self image.
    It would all look a little less ridiculous if UK government and media rhetoric was willing to adjust to the actual extent of UK military capabilities and diplomatic resources

    https://twitter.com/APHClarkson/status/1469614560185307136

    The claim I don't believe without evidence is "cutting diplomatic service by 20%". Particularly as it is the weekend Times.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    I think if you propose that the new Tory/ex Labour voters are anti lockdowns and vaccine passports, the Tories have fundamentally misunderstood their new voters.

    They are anti lockdown but not anti vaccine passports
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    DavidL said:

    Might put a few quid on Labour majority

    Trouble is that it kind of relies upon Johnson still being in charge at the next election. I am not saying Starmer couldn't win against anyone else but it makes it far less likely. For all that I have time for Starmer, right now Labour's biggest asset is the man sat inside No.10.
    I think it is highly likely Johnson leads them into the next election
    You are probably right. But that is not really enough for me to commit any money to it. The rewards may be greater backing a horse this far out but the risks are also far greater.
    You can back me, I am a Horse :)
    The lady had a donkey that everyone admired,
    It was temporarily lazy,
    It was permanently tired,
    A leg on every corner,
    A balance in its head
    And a tail to let you know where it wanted to be fed.
    Neigh!

    Are you well David?
    “ Are you well David? “ It wasn’t that bad actually 😆

    I have worked more on the rhyme to capture the history of Johnson’s downfall begun in Friday nights angry night on PB
    From a beast of a night can come something sweet

    Boris Johnson ruled inept,
    To the rules, never once he kept;
    On this old rogue comeuppance crept -
    As he soundly above his party, slept.

    🖌


  • DavidL said:

    Verstappen on soft tyres tomorrow, Hamilton on the mediums. Makes final qualifying even more key. If MV is not on pole so he can dance away on the faster tyre he is going to be in trouble.

    It might be safer for Hamilton if he was not on the same row of the grid as Verstappen.
  • @MoonRabbit

    Hi Moon, I am sorry I did not immediately respond to your PM. But thank you for your kind words and suggestions for my mental health issues, which I am looking at now. I am still seeing the counsellor once a week which I am finding a great help
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    darkage said:

    TimT said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    And Liz Truss is hosting (and posing) a G7 summit in Liverpool expressing concern about Russian troops amassing on Ukraine's border

    The Foreign Office is planning to reduce staff numbers by 20% in a move that former ambassadors have said could severely damage Britain’s global reputation https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/foreign-office-to-cut-staff-by-20-in-four-years-xzwcpwlzj?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1639205919
    The FO is not fit for purpose as evidenced in the select committee last week
    Cutting headcount by 20% seems unlikely to help that. There's lots of room for savings though -> hire more locals abroad and be less generous with all the perks (free rent abroad, extra holiday allowances, free flights etc.)
    You'll get no-one of quality applying if your remove free rent abroad. You are already asking two-career households to effectively forego one career, and to maintain a house in London. The extra holiday allowance is to allow diplomats to spend at least some time in the UK so they continue to know the country they represent. The Dutch used to have separate Foreign Office and Diplomatic personnel, with the former permanently in the Hague and the latter serving permanently abroad until that led to Ambassadors who were representing what the NL was 30 years ago (and policy-makers who had little clue of the outside world).

    Again, how do you recruit quality personnel without free rent oversees, travel to maintain family ties, and time to spend in the country you are representing?

    Under Blair, the FCO core diplomatic personnel was slashed by over 50%. It lost is surge capacity. It now functions in permanent crisis mode. I think the NHS is finding out how damaging that is as an MO.
    This is the same story across government though. The way civil servants are treated is insulting. Second class travel. Domestically it is hreadbare travelodges with 'breakfast boxes'. Impossible to claim expenses. They put out calls for people to take up the opportunity of going to Iraq for 6 months and living in a portacabin. The diplomatic service is run more like a cheapskate church mission, than anything we may have previously thought of as a government service. This is all a legacy of austerity, it can be traced back to D Cameron and G Osborne. They may well come to be regarded as the men who ruined Britain.
    That matches my Civil Service experience, which involved a lot of travel. We went from being put up in decent (but not posh) hotels to Travelodge and Premier Inns. Expenses were scrutinised so vigorously that sometimes it was easier to pay out from your own pocket. If you lost a receipt, that was it - no element of trust. Travel arrangements aimed for the cheapest, rather than the most convenient. Of course, the job became less appealing, and therefore the quality of candidates worsened - and the pay freeze didn't help, either,

    I'd only add that this was largely to do with Cameron/Osborne and austerity, but was also a product of the MPs expenses backlash.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    These Red Wall sub-samples from the latest YouGov spell smelly pants time for Conservative strategists. Looks like their vote is retreating to their traditional heartland: the south of England.

    North: Lab 45% Con 32%
    Midlands/Wales: Lab 37% Con 35%
    London: Lab 47% Con 24%
    Rest of South: Con 38% Lab 34%
    Scotland: SNP 51% Con 26% Lab 13%

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/dpbft003db/TheTimes_VI_211209_W.pdf

    So Conservatives actually up in Scotland on 2019 then, even if down in England and still ahead in their heartland of the South.

    The Conservatives can win a narrow majority or most seats without the Northern RedWall they got in 2019 but they do need to win the Midlands/Wales to do so. Fortunately on those numbers the Tories are still doing better in the Midlands/Wales than they are nationally, even if Labour are now narrowly ahead there
    Scottish Conservative voting intention = significant
    SNP voting intention = irrelevant

    What a strange world True Blue Tories inhabitant.
    Scottish Tory MPs though can get Labour and LD Unionist tactical votes v the SNP, while their counterparts south of the border have no chance of getting any tactical votes except from maybe RefUK voters
    Ross is going to find it much harder persuading SLab and SLD supporters to lend the Tories their votes. Johnson is quite literally repulsive.
    Of course, that only applies if Boris is still PM. Don't think Douglas Ross will shed many tears if he isn't, judging by recent remarks.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited December 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    These Red Wall sub-samples from the latest YouGov spell smelly pants time for Conservative strategists. Looks like their vote is retreating to their traditional heartland: the south of England.

    North: Lab 45% Con 32%
    Midlands/Wales: Lab 37% Con 35%
    London: Lab 47% Con 24%
    Rest of South: Con 38% Lab 34%
    Scotland: SNP 51% Con 26% Lab 13%

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/dpbft003db/TheTimes_VI_211209_W.pdf

    So Conservatives actually up in Scotland on 2019 then, even if down in England and still ahead in their heartland of the South.

    The Conservatives can win a narrow majority or most seats without the Northern RedWall they got in 2019 but they do need to win the Midlands/Wales to do so. Fortunately on those numbers the Tories are still doing better in the Midlands/Wales than they are nationally, even if Labour are now narrowly ahead there
    Scottish Conservative voting intention = significant
    SNP voting intention = irrelevant

    What a strange world True Blue Tories inhabitant.
    Is there a world where the Conservatives get a higher % in Scotland than in the rest of the country? I can't even begin to work out the consequences of that happening but I'm certain it would be hilarious.
    Mass full frontal lobotomy would be the precondition.
    I dunno, a successful cannibalism of their English vote by a resurgent Faragist party, plus a little increase in tactical Tories north of the wall... it just within the realms of the possible. It would be madly fascinating.
    Aha. I kind of misread your post. Now I see what you mean.

    It would require the Scons to get up to the mid 30s at the same time as Tory support nosedived in their southern English heartland. I just can’t envisage it. History tells us that SCon support has a ceiling below 30, and I’m struggling to see a scenario where they are super popular in Scotland while simultaneously personae non grata in the Home Counties.
    I can: SCUP campaign for indy. Of the nation as well as their own party.

    It's a formulatable scenario, but not terribly likely till a tipping point is reached for other reasins (self-preservation).
    That would see the SCons collapse to below 2015 levels, given almost all their voters are Unionists and would switch to the LDs or SLab or RefUK if they did that. Hence it would never happen as in effect it would mean the SCons cease to exist.

    More realistically the only likely alternative is if we end up with a scenario where RefUK becomes the main rightwing party in England but the Conservatives remain the main rightwing party in Scotland, although that is still unlikely too. Remember in the 2019 European elections May's Conservatives got 11% in Scotland but only 9% across the UK while the Brexit Party got 30% UK wide but only 15% in Scotland
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    edited December 2021
    Smarkets has this market up "North Shropshire by-election: Lab v LD" and Lab are at 16!

    Anyone tempted?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    These Red Wall sub-samples from the latest YouGov spell smelly pants time for Conservative strategists. Looks like their vote is retreating to their traditional heartland: the south of England.

    North: Lab 45% Con 32%
    Midlands/Wales: Lab 37% Con 35%
    London: Lab 47% Con 24%
    Rest of South: Con 38% Lab 34%
    Scotland: SNP 51% Con 26% Lab 13%

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/dpbft003db/TheTimes_VI_211209_W.pdf

    Hell of a Scottish subsample especially with the footie referee inveighing against Mr J - but perhaps partly because of that.
    And that Scotland sample shows why Labour have a mountain to climb to even gain a majority of 1
    It's a fair point although worth pointing out that even without Scotland seats Blair would have won a majority in 1997 and 2001.

    (Edit: And even in 2005 Blair won an absolute majority of the combined England, Wales and NI seats).
    Blair was an exception though and won Tory seats in England no Labour leader had ever won before as he was more like an old school Liberal leader than a socialist or even a social democrat.

    Other than under Blair, since universal suffrage in 1918 Labour have only won a majority in England in 1945 and 1966
    Just a thought; the first Universal Suffrage election was 1929, when both men and women over 21 could vote.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Verstappen on soft tyres tomorrow, Hamilton on the mediums. Makes final qualifying even more key. If MV is not on pole so he can dance away on the faster tyre he is going to be in trouble.

    Really hoping both Mercs get in front. After the last race we know what the RBR strategy is going to be.
    Really smart slipstream by RB. That's going to be hard to beat.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    I assume then you are against legalisation of cannabis?
    No, that's fine. All I do is Marlboro Golds.
    So you are for a ban on cigarettes but think that cannabis should be legal?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    ping said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    The New Zealand proposals are certainly interesting.
    I does raise an interesting issue, surely it goes against natural justice to have laws that only apply to adults of particular ages?

    I think they’ll find it very difficult to prosecute when it finally comes in. By then Adern will probably be long gone though, so implementation issues become someone else’s problem.

    It’s bad legislation, imo.
    Natural justice for whom?

    Can't smokers get a benefit. Can still smokers get their self-killing habit pandered to.

    How would you make it reflect natural justice?

    You can't make them all go cold turkey.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Went to a fucking great DJ set at Electric Brixton last night, absolutely bouncing, packed dancefloor, packed bars. It was a little slice of normal among the gloom. My wife thought we'd be home by midnight but we finally made it back at 6am, a couple of our friends were still going at 5am when we left. There really is nothing quite like a big night out!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    I made this comment last night at about 11pm



    “I reckon its time to play PB PLAGUE PREDICTIONS BINGO

    The world is teetering on the abyss. This could all blow over in a week and we go back to worrying about Boris's bald patch OR human civilisation will be snuffed out like a candle at Christingle, probably around Christingle

    In that light, what do we predict? I'll go first


    Lockdown: YES

    Lockdown when: introduced incrementally, but fast. Plan C from about mid December, Plan Z (a harsh lockdown) from around Jan 1

    Lockdown how long: not long. It won't do much. 3-4 weeks

    UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000

    UK deaths in the same period: 49,000”


    Interestingly it turns out I am bang in the middle of expert predictions:


    “In the most optimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has low immune escape and booster jabs are highly effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    20.9 million infections
    175,000 hospital admissions
    24,700 deaths

    In the most pessimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has high immune escape and booster jabs are less effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    34.2 million infections
    492,000 hospital admissions
    74,900 deaths”

    Sometimes I scare MYSELF

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59621029

    "UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000"

    What does that mean? I presume you mean the total of UK daily new hospitalisations due to Covid? If so that's 310,000/15 weeks = 20,666 per week on average. (About 800 currently)
    Eh? It’s around 800 a DAY at the moment

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited December 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    These Red Wall sub-samples from the latest YouGov spell smelly pants time for Conservative strategists. Looks like their vote is retreating to their traditional heartland: the south of England.

    North: Lab 45% Con 32%
    Midlands/Wales: Lab 37% Con 35%
    London: Lab 47% Con 24%
    Rest of South: Con 38% Lab 34%
    Scotland: SNP 51% Con 26% Lab 13%

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/dpbft003db/TheTimes_VI_211209_W.pdf

    Hell of a Scottish subsample especially with the footie referee inveighing against Mr J - but perhaps partly because of that.
    And that Scotland sample shows why Labour have a mountain to climb to even gain a majority of 1
    It's a fair point although worth pointing out that even without Scotland seats Blair would have won a majority in 1997 and 2001.

    (Edit: And even in 2005 Blair won an absolute majority of the combined England, Wales and NI seats).
    Blair was an exception though and won Tory seats in England no Labour leader had ever won before as he was more like an old school Liberal leader than a socialist or even a social democrat.

    Other than under Blair, since universal suffrage in 1918 Labour have only won a majority in England in 1945 and 1966
    Just a thought; the first Universal Suffrage election was 1929, when both men and women over 21 could vote.
    Yes but it was giving all working class men the vote in 1918 which saw the Labour Party overtake the Liberals as the Tories main opponents (at least on voteshare and by 1922 on seats too), if anything back then more women voted Tory than Labour
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    These Red Wall sub-samples from the latest YouGov spell smelly pants time for Conservative strategists. Looks like their vote is retreating to their traditional heartland: the south of England.

    North: Lab 45% Con 32%
    Midlands/Wales: Lab 37% Con 35%
    London: Lab 47% Con 24%
    Rest of South: Con 38% Lab 34%
    Scotland: SNP 51% Con 26% Lab 13%

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/dpbft003db/TheTimes_VI_211209_W.pdf

    So Conservatives actually up in Scotland on 2019 then, even if down in England and still ahead in their heartland of the South.

    The Conservatives can win a narrow majority or most seats without the Northern RedWall they got in 2019 but they do need to win the Midlands/Wales to do so. Fortunately on those numbers the Tories are still doing better in the Midlands/Wales than they are nationally, even if Labour are now narrowly ahead there
    Scottish Conservative voting intention = significant
    SNP voting intention = irrelevant

    What a strange world True Blue Tories inhabitant.
    Scottish Tory MPs though can get Labour and LD Unionist tactical votes v the SNP, while their counterparts south of the border have no chance of getting any tactical votes except from maybe RefUK voters
    Ross is going to find it much harder persuading SLab and SLD supporters to lend the Tories their votes. Johnson is quite literally repulsive.
    Of course, that only applies if Boris is still PM. Don't think Douglas Ross will shed many tears if he isn't, judging by recent remarks.
    And HYUFD is also forgetting the point that the SNP can and will get tactical votes from anti-Tories of all colours. It's not as if the SNP don't want to ask the population first before declaring independence, in complete contrast to the Unionist policy on that scpect of the constitution. Look at Farooq's thought processes for one (highly rational) example, albeit dependent on how much longer Mr J continues in power.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    Hello from York. Mrs RP has Covid. My debauchery weekend is scrapped, all the money spent is sunk and instead I spend even more money to travel home for 10 days of isolation, nursing and likely the pox myself.

    Yay

    Sad. Best of. You've both been vaccinated, IIRC, so you can console yourselves with the TV.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Hello from York. Mrs RP has Covid. My debauchery weekend is scrapped, all the money spent is sunk and instead I spend even more money to travel home for 10 days of isolation, nursing and likely the pox myself.

    Yay

    Commiserations.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson’s term as prime minister threatens to turn a generation against the Conservatives https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-is-losing-the-young-says-bowie-b6d8sbkbv?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1639211477

    Even in 2019 the Tories lost under 39s, so Boris has never won the young anyway
    Yes he has - Carrie's only 33.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Went to a fucking great DJ set at Electric Brixton last night, absolutely bouncing, packed dancefloor, packed bars. It was a little slice of normal among the gloom. My wife thought we'd be home by midnight but we finally made it back at 6am, a couple of our friends were still going at 5am when we left. There really is nothing quite like a big night out!

    You are going to miss this when you go to Switzerland, where having your washing machine on after midnight is a criminal offence.....let alone raving it up until 6am.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    MattW said:

    Do we have any proposals for how the Foreign Office reductions will be distributed, yet?

    Here's a Euro-type jumping to conclusions and wandering out on a plank:

    The UK government is so deeply committed to building a global role for Britain that it is cutting its diplomatic service by 20%
    A 20% cut after several waves of previous cuts means prioritisation of UK diplomatic resources on a handful of key partners and adversaries at expense of a minimum to negligible UK diplomatic presence in large parts of the world, many of which are crucial to global development
    The FCDO is on track to becoming just another middle power diplomatic service, with the same reach and ambitions as Canadian or Italian counterparts. Which is still pretty OK in global comparison but does jar with FCDO and UK elite self image.
    It would all look a little less ridiculous if UK government and media rhetoric was willing to adjust to the actual extent of UK military capabilities and diplomatic resources

    https://twitter.com/APHClarkson/status/1469614560185307136

    The claim I don't believe without evidence is "cutting diplomatic service by 20%". Particularly as it is the weekend Times.

    I read that this morning. It occurred to me we should have a CANZUK diplomatic service

    That would be a pretty beefy diplomatic corps with ample resources worldwide. Annoyingly I guess we’d have to use a bit of French to appease the Quebecois
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    @MoonRabbit

    Hi Moon, I am sorry I did not immediately respond to your PM. But thank you for your kind words and suggestions for my mental health issues, which I am looking at now. I am still seeing the counsellor once a week which I am finding a great help

    No worries mate 👍🏻 May you get well soon and stay there for ever is my wish. It does mean I managed to send message properly and not just to myself thanks 🙂
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    "It is understood that Sunak was not at the event and was not aware of it taking place at the time."
    I live in a detached house in its own grounds. When a celebration occurs next door I can hear it from 100 metres away. Didn't Sunak or Johnson ask for the noise to be turned down? Or is Carrie's wallpaper so sound insulation efficient they couldn't hear anything?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Do we have any proposals for how the Foreign Office reductions will be distributed, yet?

    Here's a Euro-type jumping to conclusions and wandering out on a plank:

    The UK government is so deeply committed to building a global role for Britain that it is cutting its diplomatic service by 20%
    A 20% cut after several waves of previous cuts means prioritisation of UK diplomatic resources on a handful of key partners and adversaries at expense of a minimum to negligible UK diplomatic presence in large parts of the world, many of which are crucial to global development
    The FCDO is on track to becoming just another middle power diplomatic service, with the same reach and ambitions as Canadian or Italian counterparts. Which is still pretty OK in global comparison but does jar with FCDO and UK elite self image.
    It would all look a little less ridiculous if UK government and media rhetoric was willing to adjust to the actual extent of UK military capabilities and diplomatic resources

    https://twitter.com/APHClarkson/status/1469614560185307136

    The claim I don't believe without evidence is "cutting diplomatic service by 20%". Particularly as it is the weekend Times.

    I read that this morning. It occurred to me we should have a CANZUK diplomatic service

    That would be a pretty beefy diplomatic corps with ample resources worldwide. Annoyingly I guess we’d have to use a bit of French to appease the Quebecois
    Sacré bleu!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson’s term as prime minister threatens to turn a generation against the Conservatives https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-is-losing-the-young-says-bowie-b6d8sbkbv?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1639211477

    Even in 2019 the Tories lost under 39s, so Boris has never won the young anyway
    Yes he has - Carrie's only 33.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braden_Davy
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/angus-council-criticism-piles-high-as-second-troll-unmasked-3292871

    Obviously well aware of social media, but then da yoof are these days.

    THough he has been a Northumberland Partyt leader (for some reason missing from his Wiki) and Labour activist as well. Plenty of time for more travels.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021

    "It is understood that Sunak was not at the event and was not aware of it taking place at the time."
    I live in a detached house in its own grounds. When a celebration occurs next door I can hear it from 100 metres away. Didn't Sunak or Johnson ask for the noise to be turned down? Or is Carrie's wallpaper so sound insulation efficient they couldn't hear anything?
    As I understand it Sunak doesn't live in Downing Street. Boris on the other hand....he doesn't have a leg to stand on, as his diary says he was away during the day, but back in London the evening of the big piss up.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    How Boris became the Tories’ new political contagion | Evening Standard https://www.standard.co.uk/insider/how-boris-johnson-became-tories-new-political-contagion-b971162.html
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Verstappen on soft tyres tomorrow, Hamilton on the mediums. Makes final qualifying even more key. If MV is not on pole so he can dance away on the faster tyre he is going to be in trouble.

    Really hoping both Mercs get in front. After the last race we know what the RBR strategy is going to be.
    Really smart slipstream by RB. That's going to be hard to beat.
    As predicted. Could Mercedes not count on Bottas in his last race for them? The slipstream was the difference.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    I made this comment last night at about 11pm



    “I reckon its time to play PB PLAGUE PREDICTIONS BINGO

    The world is teetering on the abyss. This could all blow over in a week and we go back to worrying about Boris's bald patch OR human civilisation will be snuffed out like a candle at Christingle, probably around Christingle

    In that light, what do we predict? I'll go first


    Lockdown: YES

    Lockdown when: introduced incrementally, but fast. Plan C from about mid December, Plan Z (a harsh lockdown) from around Jan 1

    Lockdown how long: not long. It won't do much. 3-4 weeks

    UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000

    UK deaths in the same period: 49,000”


    Interestingly it turns out I am bang in the middle of expert predictions:


    “In the most optimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has low immune escape and booster jabs are highly effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    20.9 million infections
    175,000 hospital admissions
    24,700 deaths

    In the most pessimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has high immune escape and booster jabs are less effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    34.2 million infections
    492,000 hospital admissions
    74,900 deaths”

    Sometimes I scare MYSELF

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59621029

    "UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000"

    What does that mean? I presume you mean the total of UK daily new hospitalisations due to Covid? If so that's 310,000/15 weeks = 20,666 per week on average. (About 800 currently)
    Eh? It’s around 800 a DAY at the moment

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
    Apologies - yes sorry 5600 pw - I realised this. But my point is - that 5600 will average st 20,666 from now to the end of the first quarter is massive in itself but would necessitate a MUCH larger figure somewhere in that quarter to bring up the mean to 20,666.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    MaxPB said:

    Went to a fucking great DJ set at Electric Brixton last night, absolutely bouncing, packed dancefloor, packed bars. It was a little slice of normal among the gloom. My wife thought we'd be home by midnight but we finally made it back at 6am, a couple of our friends were still going at 5am when we left. There really is nothing quite like a big night out!

    You are going to miss this when you go to Switzerland, where having your washing machine on after midnight is a criminal offence.....let alone raving it up until 6am.
    Unless the Home Secretary tells me otherwise I'm still a UK citizen so it's not as though we couldn't come back to London for it. Zurich has got a couple of big super clubs but they tend to play eurotrash bollocks.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Talking of predictions, this one from me yesterday evening wasn't the hardest.

    I still think its unlikely the test will even go into day 5. I think the new ball is very likely to prove decisive and that Australia will have a relatively small total to knock off which they will in double quick time. But I am delighted that England have shown today that they are not complete pushovers and will not just roll over.

    Like @rcs1000 I am struggling to see a draw in any viable scenario. Maybe they got Ferguson to model it for them.
  • DavidL said:

    Talking of predictions, this one from me yesterday evening wasn't the hardest.

    I still think its unlikely the test will even go into day 5. I think the new ball is very likely to prove decisive and that Australia will have a relatively small total to knock off which they will in double quick time. But I am delighted that England have shown today that they are not complete pushovers and will not just roll over.

    Like @rcs1000 I am struggling to see a draw in any viable scenario. Maybe they got Ferguson to model it for them.

    Your prediction was dreadful I'm sorry to say.

    The new ball wasn't decisive, it was redundant, we'd already lost all the key wickets prior to the new ball.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    Farooq said:

    So on a scale of 1 to totally fucked, where sits the PM today?

    8. He's drinking in the last chance saloon and a crowd of voters from North Salop are waiting outside to have a word.
    The noisier ones want to run him out of town, but there are quieter ones who might just step in to save him.
    The problem with Brexit is, and has been since 2016, is that no-one has done the damage limitation on it. At some point people will have to face up to it and accept the UK will be cutting deals with a largely indifferent European Union with very little influence over the outcomes. We're not at the point yet.
    Was interesting to see the Daily Express put the boot in over trading performance. Brexit has taken the global issues of the last 18 months and made them significantly worse for us. And thats before the hellfest starts on 1st January. Despite us imposing the restrictions and red tape we demanded so much later than envisaged, we still do not remotely have the capacity to cope with the BA/HMRC workload that is about to smash us over the head.
    Thing is, damage limitation requires the UK to make concessions and publicly commit to them. Passively not doing things isn't going to work.

    An example. The US apparently won't drop steel tariffs until the UK comes to agreement with the EU over the Northern Ireland Protocol. Quietly dropping the idea of using A16 won't be enough to get the US tariffs removed. The UK will need to make some kind of commitment to not using it by agreeing something else, which happens to be same as the Irish and EU demands.

    The US tariffs aren't simply an embarrassment, in that the EU gets something the UK doesn't. UK steel firms are now at a competitive disadvantage because they have tariffs and the competition doesn't.

    So the Brexiteer government must decide if it prioritises the hypothetical possibility of calling Article 16 over the future of an important industry in Red Wall seats. This can't be fudged.

    On another topic it looks like the UK and Jersey will reissue the demanded French fishing licences, as predicted.

    There's no point discussing whether this is good or bad. I guess for different reasons both Remainers and Leavers think it's bad, which is why there's been no market for damage limitation up to now. It's simply how things are going to be from now on. But I can see people reacting badly.
  • DavidL said:

    Talking of predictions, this one from me yesterday evening wasn't the hardest.

    I still think its unlikely the test will even go into day 5. I think the new ball is very likely to prove decisive and that Australia will have a relatively small total to knock off which they will in double quick time. But I am delighted that England have shown today that they are not complete pushovers and will not just roll over.

    Like @rcs1000 I am struggling to see a draw in any viable scenario. Maybe they got Ferguson to model it for them.

    Following CricViz for your betting is a sure fire way to lose money.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    I assume then you are against legalisation of cannabis?
    No, that's fine. All I do is Marlboro Golds.
    So you are for a ban on cigarettes but think that cannabis should be legal?
    Well I'd vote for a ban on cigs through sheer personal interest. But on the principle, I do think the case for smoking being illegal is far stronger than for soft drugs or alcohol. Smoking has absolutely zero benefit or utility to anybody. It's 100% downside. On every level it's a bad thing. There are no redeeming factors. The one and only reason for it being legal is that it's legal now. If it were invented tomorrow it wouldn't have a chance of being allowed.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    "It is understood that Sunak was not at the event and was not aware of it taking place at the time."
    I live in a detached house in its own grounds. When a celebration occurs next door I can hear it from 100 metres away. Didn't Sunak or Johnson ask for the noise to be turned down? Or is Carrie's wallpaper so sound insulation efficient they couldn't hear anything?
    As I understand it Sunak doesn't live in Downing Street. Boris on the other hand....he doesn't have a leg to stand on, as his diary says he was away during the day, but back in London the evening of the big piss up.
    Does the Chancellor stay in the flat when he has been on the lash at a works party ... I mean late working breakfast?
  • F1: that's a tasty grid for the race.
  • MaxPB said:

    Went to a fucking great DJ set at Electric Brixton last night, absolutely bouncing, packed dancefloor, packed bars. It was a little slice of normal among the gloom. My wife thought we'd be home by midnight but we finally made it back at 6am, a couple of our friends were still going at 5am when we left. There really is nothing quite like a big night out!

    Had been looking forward to mine tonight at Brixton Academy, ah well. Will have to console myself with hours of Grand Prix tomorrow
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021

    "It is understood that Sunak was not at the event and was not aware of it taking place at the time."
    I live in a detached house in its own grounds. When a celebration occurs next door I can hear it from 100 metres away. Didn't Sunak or Johnson ask for the noise to be turned down? Or is Carrie's wallpaper so sound insulation efficient they couldn't hear anything?
    As I understand it Sunak doesn't live in Downing Street. Boris on the other hand....he doesn't have a leg to stand on, as his diary says he was away during the day, but back in London the evening of the big piss up.
    Does the Chancellor stay in the flat when he has been on the lash at a works party ... I mean late working breakfast?
    AFIK Dishy Rishi doesn't drink.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    I assume then you are against legalisation of cannabis?
    No, that's fine. All I do is Marlboro Golds.
    So you are for a ban on cigarettes but think that cannabis should be legal?
    Well I'd vote for a ban on cigs through sheer personal interest. But on the principle, I do think the case for smoking being illegal is far stronger than for soft drugs or alcohol. Smoking has absolutely zero benefit or utility to anybody. It's 100% downside. On every level it's a bad thing. There are no redeeming factors. The one and only reason for it being legal is that it's legal now. If it were invented tomorrow it wouldn't have a chance of being allowed.
    Zero utility? You don't think people enjoy smoking?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    edited December 2021

    MaxPB said:

    Went to a fucking great DJ set at Electric Brixton last night, absolutely bouncing, packed dancefloor, packed bars. It was a little slice of normal among the gloom. My wife thought we'd be home by midnight but we finally made it back at 6am, a couple of our friends were still going at 5am when we left. There really is nothing quite like a big night out!

    Had been looking forward to mine tonight at Brixton Academy, ah well. Will have to console myself with hours of Grand Prix tomorrow
    Ah man, sorry to hear that. Don't understand why anything is being cancelled, Brixton was bouncing last night.

    Edit - just saw why, hope your wife gets better soon! When my wife and I had it last year it wasn't pleasant for about a week, if it's any longer than that get a medical consultation.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    TOMMY'S OSCAR Win for Stodge.

    Jades NAP Lucky One free going front runner 😂 didn’t want to play with his friends today. Jumped well.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Hello from York. Mrs RP has Covid. My debauchery weekend is scrapped, all the money spent is sunk and instead I spend even more money to travel home for 10 days of isolation, nursing and likely the pox myself.

    Yay

    Sorry to hear. Hope nothing serious.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    I made this comment last night at about 11pm



    “I reckon its time to play PB PLAGUE PREDICTIONS BINGO

    The world is teetering on the abyss. This could all blow over in a week and we go back to worrying about Boris's bald patch OR human civilisation will be snuffed out like a candle at Christingle, probably around Christingle

    In that light, what do we predict? I'll go first


    Lockdown: YES

    Lockdown when: introduced incrementally, but fast. Plan C from about mid December, Plan Z (a harsh lockdown) from around Jan 1

    Lockdown how long: not long. It won't do much. 3-4 weeks

    UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000

    UK deaths in the same period: 49,000”


    Interestingly it turns out I am bang in the middle of expert predictions:


    “In the most optimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has low immune escape and booster jabs are highly effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    20.9 million infections
    175,000 hospital admissions
    24,700 deaths

    In the most pessimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has high immune escape and booster jabs are less effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    34.2 million infections
    492,000 hospital admissions
    74,900 deaths”

    Sometimes I scare MYSELF

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59621029

    "UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000"

    What does that mean? I presume you mean the total of UK daily new hospitalisations due to Covid? If so that's 310,000/15 weeks = 20,666 per week on average. (About 800 currently)
    Eh? It’s around 800 a DAY at the moment

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
    Apologies - yes sorry 5600 pw - I realised this. But my point is - that 5600 will average st 20,666 from now to the end of the first quarter is massive in itself but would necessitate a MUCH larger figure somewhere in that quarter to bring up the mean to 20,666.
    Total covid admissions so far. 600,000. I’m predicting omicron will add roughly 50% to that over the winter

    If I say so myself, I’m still impressed by my amateur epidemiology.

    This morning the best scientific brains in the country - virologists to mathematicians - came up with their predictions of deaths by omicron


    Best case: 24,700

    Worst case: 74,900


    Last night, hours before, at about 11pm after two gins and several wines, I predicted

    My case: 49,100

    Absolute bullseye. Smack bang in the middle. Quite frankly the government could save squillions by sacking all their modellers and hiring me to do it once a week after dinner for about an hour. They could pay me in Tikves Barovo
  • "It is understood that Sunak was not at the event and was not aware of it taking place at the time."
    I live in a detached house in its own grounds. When a celebration occurs next door I can hear it from 100 metres away. Didn't Sunak or Johnson ask for the noise to be turned down? Or is Carrie's wallpaper so sound insulation efficient they couldn't hear anything?
    As I understand it Sunak doesn't live in Downing Street. Boris on the other hand....he doesn't have a leg to stand on, as his diary says he was away during the day, but back in London the evening of the big piss up.
    Does the Chancellor stay in the flat when he has been on the lash at a works party ... I mean late working breakfast?
    AFIK Dishy Rishi doesn't drink.
    He does. Drinks the tears from the howls of anguish of Boris's team as he outmanoeuvres them again and again.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    I assume then you are against legalisation of cannabis?
    No, that's fine. All I do is Marlboro Golds.
    So you are for a ban on cigarettes but think that cannabis should be legal?
    Well I'd vote for a ban on cigs through sheer personal interest. But on the principle, I do think the case for smoking being illegal is far stronger than for soft drugs or alcohol. Smoking has absolutely zero benefit or utility to anybody. It's 100% downside. On every level it's a bad thing. There are no redeeming factors. The one and only reason for it being legal is that it's legal now. If it were invented tomorrow it wouldn't have a chance of being allowed.
    Zero utility? You don't think people enjoy smoking?
    Saves on pensions for HMG and the pension funds. Very utility.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    DavidL said:

    Verstappen on soft tyres tomorrow, Hamilton on the mediums. Makes final qualifying even more key. If MV is not on pole so he can dance away on the faster tyre he is going to be in trouble.

    I would think Hamilton will be reasonably happy to see him dance away at the start. The softs won’t last anywhere near as long as the mediums, so it then becomes a strategy battle.
    Obviously he would have preferred Merc 1/2, but after his poor first run in Q3 it wasn’t going to happen, and Bottas’ miserable effort compounded that.
    Starting on pole on the mediums vs Verstappen in p2 on the softs would have been much riskier.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Good to see Liverpool Victoria having their demutualisation sale of themselves to Bain capital rejected by members (me included) - Mutuals are the best model for a lot of business certainly financial business

    It was a very poor offer. Either the current management negotiated below value (perhaps because of conflicts of interest) or perhaps it was fair value because the current management mismanaged the company.

    Either way the current management had no business recommending that offer.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2021
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    I assume then you are against legalisation of cannabis?
    No, that's fine. All I do is Marlboro Golds.
    So you are for a ban on cigarettes but think that cannabis should be legal?
    Well I'd vote for a ban on cigs through sheer personal interest. But on the principle, I do think the case for smoking being illegal is far stronger than for soft drugs or alcohol. Smoking has absolutely zero benefit or utility to anybody. It's 100% downside. On every level it's a bad thing. There are no redeeming factors. The one and only reason for it being legal is that it's legal now. If it were invented tomorrow it wouldn't have a chance of being allowed.
    Zero utility? You don't think people enjoy smoking?
    We (I’m a smoker) enjoy satiating the craving. It’s not really enjoyment. We look forward to the calm, pleasant sensation after getting our fix.

    It’s a stupid, nasty, dangerous habit. Despite what I said in my previous post, I still wish smoking had been illegal when I was growing up. I almost certainly wouldn’t be addicted now.

    I just think there’s something wrong with the way NZ is going about it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Someone who understands F1 please help me. What's the significance of Verstappen having to start on softs?
  • There is some right old madness going on in Holland...

    Dutch website owner arrested for selling material which allowed people to avoid getting the COVID-19 vaccine by infecting themselves with the virus

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1469652338835169284?s=20
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Hamilton: "We are still on the front row, different tyres. It is great I can see where he is."

    I bet it is!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    I made this comment last night at about 11pm



    “I reckon its time to play PB PLAGUE PREDICTIONS BINGO

    The world is teetering on the abyss. This could all blow over in a week and we go back to worrying about Boris's bald patch OR human civilisation will be snuffed out like a candle at Christingle, probably around Christingle

    In that light, what do we predict? I'll go first


    Lockdown: YES

    Lockdown when: introduced incrementally, but fast. Plan C from about mid December, Plan Z (a harsh lockdown) from around Jan 1

    Lockdown how long: not long. It won't do much. 3-4 weeks

    UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000

    UK deaths in the same period: 49,000”


    Interestingly it turns out I am bang in the middle of expert predictions:


    “In the most optimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has low immune escape and booster jabs are highly effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    20.9 million infections
    175,000 hospital admissions
    24,700 deaths

    In the most pessimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has high immune escape and booster jabs are less effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    34.2 million infections
    492,000 hospital admissions
    74,900 deaths”

    Sometimes I scare MYSELF

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59621029

    "UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000"

    What does that mean? I presume you mean the total of UK daily new hospitalisations due to Covid? If so that's 310,000/15 weeks = 20,666 per week on average. (About 800 currently)
    Eh? It’s around 800 a DAY at the moment

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
    Apologies - yes sorry 5600 pw - I realised this. But my point is - that 5600 will average st 20,666 from now to the end of the first quarter is massive in itself but would necessitate a MUCH larger figure somewhere in that quarter to bring up the mean to 20,666.
    Total covid admissions so far. 600,000. I’m predicting omicron will add roughly 50% to that over the winter

    If I say so myself, I’m still impressed by my amateur epidemiology.

    This morning the best scientific brains in the country - virologists to mathematicians - came up with their predictions of deaths by omicron


    Best case: 24,700

    Worst case: 74,900


    Last night, hours before, at about 11pm after two gins and several wines, I predicted

    My case: 49,100

    Absolute bullseye. Smack bang in the middle. Quite frankly the government could save squillions by sacking all their modellers and hiring me to do it once a week after dinner for about an hour. They could pay me in Tikves Barovo
    Ok, I can see why you are panicking.

    I hope and think you are way off.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    .

    "It is understood that Sunak was not at the event and was not aware of it taking place at the time."
    I live in a detached house in its own grounds. When a celebration occurs next door I can hear it from 100 metres away. Didn't Sunak or Johnson ask for the noise to be turned down? Or is Carrie's wallpaper so sound insulation efficient they couldn't hear anything?
    As I understand it Sunak doesn't live in Downing Street. Boris on the other hand....he doesn't have a leg to stand on, as his diary says he was away during the day, but back in London the evening of the big piss up.
    Does the Chancellor stay in the flat when he has been on the lash at a works party ... I mean late working breakfast?
    AFIK Dishy Rishi doesn't drink.
    A wise man.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Someone who understands F1 please help me. What's the significance of Verstappen having to start on softs?

    Soft tyres degrade faster so it means he'll have to come in and pit earlier for the next set while Lewis can keep the same mediums on for 5-7 more laps, Lewis will also keep that advantage on the hards in the second stint where at the end of the race Max might struggle to keep his car on the road.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    "It is understood that Sunak was not at the event and was not aware of it taking place at the time."
    I live in a detached house in its own grounds. When a celebration occurs next door I can hear it from 100 metres away. Didn't Sunak or Johnson ask for the noise to be turned down? Or is Carrie's wallpaper so sound insulation efficient they couldn't hear anything?
    As I understand it Sunak doesn't live in Downing Street. Boris on the other hand....he doesn't have a leg to stand on, as his diary says he was away during the day, but back in London the evening of the big piss up.
    Does the Chancellor stay in the flat when he has been on the lash at a works party ... I mean late working breakfast?
    AFIK Dishy Rishi doesn't drink.
    He does. Drinks the tears from the howls of anguish of Boris's team as he outmanoeuvres them again and again.
    Drinking alcohol is, I understand, discouraged among Hindu's. Although I've known Hindu's who did, although rarely to excess.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    Hamilton: "We are still on the front row, different tyres. It is great I can see where he is."

    I bet it is!

    Quite a sly dig, that last part.
  • F1: Perez starts immediately behind Hamilton. There's a reasonable chance he and Norris can get ahead of the current champion. I still think Hamilton has a great shot, but this is a setback.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    My virulent anti-vaxxer friend is now on day 9 in ICU. He seems to be getting better, so will no doubt convince himself that it was better than getting jabbed.

    He and his wife were also rabidly anti-Trump. How they square the circle of being in the same camp as the Republican nutters is beyond me.

    Rather than smoking regs, more like those who used to drink and drive. You stood a real chance of being wiped out by some selfish arse who genuinely thought they drove just as well pissed as sober. Thankfully, Darwinism has pretty much seen off the remaining stump of those idiots. As it will Covid. Just don't expect a functioning NHS until it has.
    I don't understand how anyone can be anti-vaccinations. Mindboggling.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    "It is understood that Sunak was not at the event and was not aware of it taking place at the time."
    I live in a detached house in its own grounds. When a celebration occurs next door I can hear it from 100 metres away. Didn't Sunak or Johnson ask for the noise to be turned down? Or is Carrie's wallpaper so sound insulation efficient they couldn't hear anything?
    As I understand it Sunak doesn't live in Downing Street. Boris on the other hand....he doesn't have a leg to stand on, as his diary says he was away during the day, but back in London the evening of the big piss up.
    Does the Chancellor stay in the flat when he has been on the lash at a works party ... I mean late working breakfast?
    AFIK Dishy Rishi doesn't drink.
    He does. Drinks the tears from the howls of anguish of Boris's team as he outmanoeuvres them again and again.
    Drinking alcohol is, I understand, discouraged among Hindu's. Although I've known Hindu's who did, although rarely to excess.
    Have you ever met any Indian cricket fans? Restraint is not the first word that comes to mind.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Someone who understands F1 please help me. What's the significance of Verstappen having to start on softs?

    Soft tyres degrade faster so it means he'll have to come in and pit earlier for the next set while Lewis can keep the same mediums on for 5-7 more laps, Lewis will also keep that advantage on the hards in the second stint where at the end of the race Max might struggle to keep his car on the road.
    The word appears to be that he may be banking on a collision?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    ping said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    I assume then you are against legalisation of cannabis?
    No, that's fine. All I do is Marlboro Golds.
    So you are for a ban on cigarettes but think that cannabis should be legal?
    Well I'd vote for a ban on cigs through sheer personal interest. But on the principle, I do think the case for smoking being illegal is far stronger than for soft drugs or alcohol. Smoking has absolutely zero benefit or utility to anybody. It's 100% downside. On every level it's a bad thing. There are no redeeming factors. The one and only reason for it being legal is that it's legal now. If it were invented tomorrow it wouldn't have a chance of being allowed.
    Zero utility? You don't think people enjoy smoking?
    We (I’m a smoker) enjoy satiating the craving. It’s not really enjoyment. We look forward to the calm, pleasant sensation after getting our fix.

    It’s a stupid, nasty, dangerous habit. Despite what I said in my previous post, I still wish smoking had been illegal when I was growing up. I almost certainly wouldn’t be addicted now.

    I just think there’s something wrong with the way NZ is going about it.
    Yes, there’s a fair amount of research showing it’s as hard to quit as the most addictive hard drugs, but far less pleasurable.
  • Managed to bag a (relatively) cheap 1st class ticket York to Edinburgh. Then an hour fester in Edinburgh before the trundle back to Aberdeen then Inverurie then the drive home.

    Wifey says she is ok. Thumping headache and coughing but functional. Daughter has been fine for days, son will be happy to bin off the last week of school.

    Appreciate the positive messages everyone. Have taken the abrupt scrapping of my plans for more dollah with a wry smile - if I am lucky Hilton will give me back my points for tonight's stay having rung to cancel and telling they why.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    "It is understood that Sunak was not at the event and was not aware of it taking place at the time."
    I live in a detached house in its own grounds. When a celebration occurs next door I can hear it from 100 metres away. Didn't Sunak or Johnson ask for the noise to be turned down? Or is Carrie's wallpaper so sound insulation efficient they couldn't hear anything?
    As I understand it Sunak doesn't live in Downing Street. Boris on the other hand....he doesn't have a leg to stand on, as his diary says he was away during the day, but back in London the evening of the big piss up.
    Does the Chancellor stay in the flat when he has been on the lash at a works party ... I mean late working breakfast?
    AFIK Dishy Rishi doesn't drink.
    He does. Drinks the tears from the howls of anguish of Boris's team as he outmanoeuvres them again and again.
    Drinking alcohol is, I understand, discouraged among Hindu's. Although I've known Hindu's who did, although rarely to excess.
    You don't know that many then.
  • Bit of fun....

    COVID-19 Restrictions Generator
    https://koronawirus.lol/en/
  • Mr. Pointer, the soft tyre is faster by 0.6s or so a lap but will degrade more rapidly. If an early pit stop puts you behind traffic, that's bad. If you need to have 2 stops rather than 1 that may (depending on the circuit) cost you a lot of time.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Scott_xP said:

    How Boris became the Tories’ new political contagion | Evening Standard https://www.standard.co.uk/insider/how-boris-johnson-became-tories-new-political-contagion-b971162.html

    Which is why Hunt is in with a shout, as one of the tiny number of possible PMs who is not mad, and unassociated with this government.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    MaxPB said:

    Someone who understands F1 please help me. What's the significance of Verstappen having to start on softs?

    Soft tyres degrade faster so it means he'll have to come in and pit earlier for the next set while Lewis can keep the same mediums on for 5-7 more laps, Lewis will also keep that advantage on the hards in the second stint where at the end of the race Max might struggle to keep his car on the road.
    Thanks. Going to watch it live on TV for the first time in years, thanks to the C4/Sky deal.

    Hopefully I'll be able to work out what's going on.
  • I think one of the most effective things we could do is to make train tickets to from Scotland to England cheaper than flying
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Mr. Pointer, the soft tyre is faster by 0.6s or so a lap but will degrade more rapidly. If an early pit stop puts you behind traffic, that's bad. If you need to have 2 stops rather than 1 that may (depending on the circuit) cost you a lot of time.

    Thanks @Morris_Dancer. Do you think the 2 stops rather than 1 will come into play on this circuit?
  • BBC interviewers taking this line with newspapers are brave. We're entitled to ask them did they party in Portland Place last December during lockdown?

    https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/1469606730933932035?s=20
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    14:25 enjoyed that proper race, 🙂
  • Disappointing...

    409,760 booster vaccinations in Flag of United Kingdom exc Wales yesterday (372,557 the previous Friday)

    Flag of England 362,502
    Flag of Scotland 36,014
    NI 11,244

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1469675418055843842?s=20
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited December 2021
    Off topic: anyone heard from @Mortimer recently? I haven't seen him post for a while.

    Edit: I see he posted on 8 December, so he's alive an kicking!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How Boris became the Tories’ new political contagion | Evening Standard https://www.standard.co.uk/insider/how-boris-johnson-became-tories-new-political-contagion-b971162.html

    Which is why Hunt is in with a shout, as one of the tiny number of possible PMs who is not mad, and unassociated with this government.

    He has also had a "good COVID". Yes the criticism of why weren't better plans during his time at DoH (although it seems most expert stuff was about flu related outbreak), but during the past 18 months, he has done a better job than the opposition of constructive criticism.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How Boris became the Tories’ new political contagion | Evening Standard https://www.standard.co.uk/insider/how-boris-johnson-became-tories-new-political-contagion-b971162.html

    Which is why Hunt is in with a shout, as one of the tiny number of possible PMs who is not mad, and unassociated with this government.

    Hunt net favourable -25%, Sunak net favourable +3%.

    If Boris goes Sunak remains the only viable alternative who has a net positive rating still, at least with Yougov
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Jeremy_Hunt
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Rishi_Sunak
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    I made this comment last night at about 11pm



    “I reckon its time to play PB PLAGUE PREDICTIONS BINGO

    The world is teetering on the abyss. This could all blow over in a week and we go back to worrying about Boris's bald patch OR human civilisation will be snuffed out like a candle at Christingle, probably around Christingle

    In that light, what do we predict? I'll go first


    Lockdown: YES

    Lockdown when: introduced incrementally, but fast. Plan C from about mid December, Plan Z (a harsh lockdown) from around Jan 1

    Lockdown how long: not long. It won't do much. 3-4 weeks

    UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000

    UK deaths in the same period: 49,000”


    Interestingly it turns out I am bang in the middle of expert predictions:


    “In the most optimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has low immune escape and booster jabs are highly effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    20.9 million infections
    175,000 hospital admissions
    24,700 deaths

    In the most pessimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has high immune escape and booster jabs are less effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    34.2 million infections
    492,000 hospital admissions
    74,900 deaths”

    Sometimes I scare MYSELF

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59621029

    "UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000"

    What does that mean? I presume you mean the total of UK daily new hospitalisations due to Covid? If so that's 310,000/15 weeks = 20,666 per week on average. (About 800 currently)
    Eh? It’s around 800 a DAY at the moment

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
    Apologies - yes sorry 5600 pw - I realised this. But my point is - that 5600 will average st 20,666 from now to the end of the first quarter is massive in itself but would necessitate a MUCH larger figure somewhere in that quarter to bring up the mean to 20,666.
    Total covid admissions so far. 600,000. I’m predicting omicron will add roughly 50% to that over the winter

    If I say so myself, I’m still impressed by my amateur epidemiology.

    This morning the best scientific brains in the country - virologists to mathematicians - came up with their predictions of deaths by omicron


    Best case: 24,700

    Worst case: 74,900


    Last night, hours before, at about 11pm after two gins and several wines, I predicted

    My case: 49,100

    Absolute bullseye. Smack bang in the middle. Quite frankly the government could save squillions by sacking all their modellers and hiring me to do it once a week after dinner for about an hour. They could pay me in Tikves Barovo
    Ok, I can see why you are panicking.

    I hope and think you are way off.
    Yes, I might well be panicking (in terms of exaggerating the peril, I am actually sitting here calmly sipping tea), and of course I hope I am way over the top in my predix, and Omicron just fizzles away

    But what is interesting is how exactly my *panicked* and entirely amateur predictions align with those of the best epidemiological brains in the country

    I plucked mine of out of thin air after thinking for about 20minutes, slightly tipsy, near midnight. Theirs took days of pondering with computers and models in the labs, no doubt. Yet, precisely the same

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited December 2021
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    valleyboy said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “I’d strongly urge the government to drop the vote on vaccine passports.”

    Conservative MP, Tobias Ellwood says the government needs to “repair” trust with the British people, if they are going to bring in new COVID guidance.


    Get #COVID19 updates: https://trib.al/oqKZkSu https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1469636560987594761/video/1

    Hunting the unvaxxed is the new national sport - hasn't Ellwood heard?
    Ridiculous comment. No one's 'hunting' them - just preventing their stupidity impacting the sensible. A bit like the smoking regs.
    Well, I exaggerate for comic effect.

    There is no doubt that this group are being relegated to second-class citizens. Vax Passports will be popular despite vaccination always being set-up as a personal choice. An example of the tyranny of the majority if you like. It is disingenuous because our route out of this - vaccine discovery - was never predicated on everyone agreeing to take the vaccine (which was never going to happen and we knew it).

    I think someone deciding not to get vaccinated is making a big mistake and will try to persuade them otherwise by looking at all evidence and the pros and cons. But I truly dislike current mass sentiment over this issue, it's a nasty atmosphere.
    Apols for my over-reaction - took you too seriously.

    I'd be interested to know if/where you think my smoking analogy falls down?
    I think it's a pretty good analogy. I disagree that smoking should be banned wholesale but agree that it is acceptable that smoking shouldn't be allowed in a pub for example and, instead, an outside area can accommodate them.

    But if I'm totally honest with you I was opposed to the smoking ban in the first place. Just as when I was young I was opposed to mandatory seat belts. I've come on-board on both these issues given time, though I still don't think that the odd fag in a pub or trip to the shops unbelted should be policed draconianly.
    I am regularly grateful that it is.

    I gave up going to pubs in the 90s because I got fed up of coming home with my clothes, hair, and skin stinking, never mind the (probably low but not zero) passive-smoking risks.
    As I matured(sic) I hated smoking in pubs to the extent I rarely went in one. I was eternally grateful when the smoking ban came in. My wife and I are now very regular pub meal goers.
    Cannot understand how anyone(and I am an ex smoker) can enjoy someone puffing away next to them.
    I'd support a total legal ban on cigarettes. It's the only way to get me off the things and I bet that applies to many other addicts.
    I assume then you are against legalisation of cannabis?
    No, that's fine. All I do is Marlboro Golds.
    So you are for a ban on cigarettes but think that cannabis should be legal?
    Well I'd vote for a ban on cigs through sheer personal interest. But on the principle, I do think the case for smoking being illegal is far stronger than for soft drugs or alcohol. Smoking has absolutely zero benefit or utility to anybody. It's 100% downside. On every level it's a bad thing. There are no redeeming factors. The one and only reason for it being legal is that it's legal now. If it were invented tomorrow it wouldn't have a chance of being allowed.
    Zero utility? You don't think people enjoy smoking?
    I know they don't. It's quelling nicotine withdrawal pangs, hitting the clock on the next lot building up until they must be quelled again. The 'pleasure' is simply relief at the temporary removal of the twitchy anxious gnawing sensation the addiction itself creates. Smokers are rats on a wheel. Ruining their health, stinking up the place, throwing their money away. Many try to convince themselves otherwise for self-esteem purposes. But it's bollocks.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    MaxPB said:

    Someone who understands F1 please help me. What's the significance of Verstappen having to start on softs?

    Soft tyres degrade faster so it means he'll have to come in and pit earlier for the next set while Lewis can keep the same mediums on for 5-7 more laps, Lewis will also keep that advantage on the hards in the second stint where at the end of the race Max might struggle to keep his car on the road.
    Safety car could negate that, of course.
    And with Perez just behind on the softs, the start is not risk free. Also Red Bull have strategy options not longer available to Mercedes with Bottas so far back.
  • I think one of the most effective things we could do is to make train tickets to from Scotland to England cheaper than flying
  • Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    I made this comment last night at about 11pm



    “I reckon its time to play PB PLAGUE PREDICTIONS BINGO

    The world is teetering on the abyss. This could all blow over in a week and we go back to worrying about Boris's bald patch OR human civilisation will be snuffed out like a candle at Christingle, probably around Christingle

    In that light, what do we predict? I'll go first


    Lockdown: YES

    Lockdown when: introduced incrementally, but fast. Plan C from about mid December, Plan Z (a harsh lockdown) from around Jan 1

    Lockdown how long: not long. It won't do much. 3-4 weeks

    UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000

    UK deaths in the same period: 49,000”


    Interestingly it turns out I am bang in the middle of expert predictions:


    “In the most optimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has low immune escape and booster jabs are highly effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    20.9 million infections
    175,000 hospital admissions
    24,700 deaths

    In the most pessimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has high immune escape and booster jabs are less effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    34.2 million infections
    492,000 hospital admissions
    74,900 deaths”

    Sometimes I scare MYSELF

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59621029

    "UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000"

    What does that mean? I presume you mean the total of UK daily new hospitalisations due to Covid? If so that's 310,000/15 weeks = 20,666 per week on average. (About 800 currently)
    Eh? It’s around 800 a DAY at the moment

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
    Apologies - yes sorry 5600 pw - I realised this. But my point is - that 5600 will average st 20,666 from now to the end of the first quarter is massive in itself but would necessitate a MUCH larger figure somewhere in that quarter to bring up the mean to 20,666.
    Total covid admissions so far. 600,000. I’m predicting omicron will add roughly 50% to that over the winter

    If I say so myself, I’m still impressed by my amateur epidemiology.

    This morning the best scientific brains in the country - virologists to mathematicians - came up with their predictions of deaths by omicron


    Best case: 24,700

    Worst case: 74,900


    Last night, hours before, at about 11pm after two gins and several wines, I predicted

    My case: 49,100

    Absolute bullseye. Smack bang in the middle. Quite frankly the government could save squillions by sacking all their modellers and hiring me to do it once a week after dinner for about an hour. They could pay me in Tikves Barovo
    Ok, I can see why you are panicking.

    I hope and think you are way off.
    Lockdown: YES

    Lockdown when: 3rd Jan. (Hard lockdown, schools, pubs shut etc etc - the works)

    Lockdown how long: 8 weeks


    No idea about hospitalisations and deaths. I will have a look at the models when I have more time.


    The lockdown will cost Johnson his job I suspect.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    I made this comment last night at about 11pm



    “I reckon its time to play PB PLAGUE PREDICTIONS BINGO

    The world is teetering on the abyss. This could all blow over in a week and we go back to worrying about Boris's bald patch OR human civilisation will be snuffed out like a candle at Christingle, probably around Christingle

    In that light, what do we predict? I'll go first


    Lockdown: YES

    Lockdown when: introduced incrementally, but fast. Plan C from about mid December, Plan Z (a harsh lockdown) from around Jan 1

    Lockdown how long: not long. It won't do much. 3-4 weeks

    UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000

    UK deaths in the same period: 49,000”


    Interestingly it turns out I am bang in the middle of expert predictions:


    “In the most optimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has low immune escape and booster jabs are highly effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    20.9 million infections
    175,000 hospital admissions
    24,700 deaths

    In the most pessimistic scenario, which assumes Omicron has high immune escape and booster jabs are less effective, the model projects between 1 December and 31 April:
    34.2 million infections
    492,000 hospital admissions
    74,900 deaths”

    Sometimes I scare MYSELF

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59621029

    "UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000"

    What does that mean? I presume you mean the total of UK daily new hospitalisations due to Covid? If so that's 310,000/15 weeks = 20,666 per week on average. (About 800 currently)
    Eh? It’s around 800 a DAY at the moment

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
    Apologies - yes sorry 5600 pw - I realised this. But my point is - that 5600 will average st 20,666 from now to the end of the first quarter is massive in itself but would necessitate a MUCH larger figure somewhere in that quarter to bring up the mean to 20,666.
    Total covid admissions so far. 600,000. I’m predicting omicron will add roughly 50% to that over the winter

    If I say so myself, I’m still impressed by my amateur epidemiology.

    This morning the best scientific brains in the country - virologists to mathematicians - came up with their predictions of deaths by omicron


    Best case: 24,700

    Worst case: 74,900


    Last night, hours before, at about 11pm after two gins and several wines, I predicted

    My case: 49,100

    Absolute bullseye. Smack bang in the middle. Quite frankly the government could save squillions by sacking all their modellers and hiring me to do it once a week after dinner for about an hour. They could pay me in Tikves Barovo
    Ok, I can see why you are panicking.

    I hope and think you are way off.
    Yes, I might well be panicking (in terms of exaggerating the peril, I am actually sitting here calmly sipping tea), and of course I hope I am way over the top in my predix, and Omicron just fizzles away

    But what is interesting is how exactly my *panicked* and entirely amateur predictions align with those of the best epidemiological brains in the country

    I plucked mine of out of thin air after thinking for about 20minutes, slightly tipsy, near midnight. Theirs took days of pondering with computers and models in the labs, no doubt. Yet, precisely the same

    Tea ?? You feeling ok? 😂
This discussion has been closed.