There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
And across prominent loudmouth right wing media figures and their fellow travellers too. Purely anecdotally of course. And fairly accepted too.
FPT it’s a very slippery slope when you start judging people for needing the NHS. When does it end?
@Leon guzzles booze like nobody’s business. That’s a positive act that is likely to be an NHS resource drain in the future. Driving a car at 120mph is also a positive act. Refusing a vaccine is an omission.
It feels profoundly wrong to force people to put something into their own body.
I say this as someone who has had an operation cancelled 3 times already due to NHS pressures. 4th attempt is currently scheduled for Monday.
Except you're talking about compulsion in a situation of dire national emergency as if it were a totally novel and unprecedented moral outrage. It isn't.
Not so very long ago, millions of our forebears were conscripted to fight in wars. When society was faced with an existential threat, it demanded, amongst other things, that young people fight in battles and get blown up, shot through the head or drown in icy cold seas. And if you were called up then, unless you had a very good excuse (e.g. a reserved occupation or being medically unfit) then you bloody well went. The small minority of hardcore pacifists who refused to do service of any kind were complete social pariahs who ended up imprisoned.
Fast forward a few decades and now it's considered unforgivable to ask people to have a scratch on the arm every three or six months so as to try and avoid the entire bloody country ending up under house arrest for months on end, with the education of the nation's children wrecked, otherwise viable businesses driven to the wall en masse, and the state hurtling every closer to the cliff edge of bankruptcy into the bargain.
And if the cost of your repeated cancelled operations was that you ended up dead, I doubt your surviving relatives would feel so sanguine about this problem.
I still profoundly disagree. I think people are panicking and trying to find someone, anyone, to ‘blame’ and in doing so are retreating to a level of authoritarianism to impose this panic on others.
The country does not need to be under house arrest. We’re very highly vaccinated. Thats good. The odd person who isn’t isnt going to make a difference.
But of course keep blaming others
You're just too fucking stupid to understand how vaccination works. It only works if a certain high percentage agree to do it. That's it. Otherwise everyone suffers and the disease wins.
Your miserable IQ is too low to grasp this central fact
Rubbish. I’m vaccinated therefore my immune system is better placed to fight off covid. I couldn’t give two hoots if other people are or not. Not my problem not my business.
Oh god. Oh my fucking good god
Go to bed man
I always guessed you didn't have much of a brain. i never guessed you actually don't possess a BRAIN-STEM
I think you're both wrong. The new variant is so transmissable the vaccines won't stop the spread (AIUI), even if the DAs of the world get it. So the traditional, herd immunity argument is out - this is like the common cold now.
However, if the DAs start filling up the hospitals then operations like the one GG is getting (and me too, next week) will be cancelled as the NHS collapses under the pressure.
I don't think that's true at all.
Pfizer showed that the triple vaxxed had exactly the same immune response to Omicron that the double vaxxed had to Alpha. Now, this was a small scale antibody test, but it's highly suggestive of the fact that those who have had all three jabs are going to be fine.
Anti-vaxxering is a strange coalition of across the political spectrum. Definitely strong in far right and far left, and then soft left non-white communities.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
And across prominent loudmouth right wing media figures and their fellow travellers too. Purely anecdotally of course. And fairly accepted too.
Didn't say no right wing people and they are just as wrong. However last figures I saw indicated some communities had as low as 60 to 70% vax rate among black and asian. A few right wing twitterers with a few hundred followers hardly count and are offset by all the left wing twitterers of the same mind
We know the unvaxxed basically take up a huge proportion of critical care facilities. They also stay longer, next to age - and noone can change their age it's the single biggest factor in healthcare clogging. I think we're moving to a point where the choices are basically
i) Healthcare system collapses. ii) Mandatory vaccination. iii) More lockdowns for all.
4) more nhs staff
1,3,and 4 means everyone else having to pay for their decisions how about no
We have to pay for lots of decisions. Obesity, alcohol, drugs, sports, bosses stressing out their workers. This line of thinking is a ridiculous slippery slope.
And we tax smokers on that basis. We can't really tax food effectively, so a £100 tax rebate for BMI less than 30?
Alcohol is harder still. Scotland tried it.
Its a myth that we don't tax food.
There's no tax on fresh food that you cook and prepare at home.
Takeaways, deliveries, restaurant food etc is almost always taxed at 20% VAT as are most treats like chocolate.
Something tells me that in general fatties are paying a lot more VAT on their food because of this.
Well, exactly. Hence "effectively".
The taxes we have in place clearly haven't had any impact on obesity levels.
FPT it’s a very slippery slope when you start judging people for needing the NHS. When does it end?
@Leon guzzles booze like nobody’s business. That’s a positive act that is likely to be an NHS resource drain in the future. Driving a car at 120mph is also a positive act. Refusing a vaccine is an omission.
It feels profoundly wrong to force people to put something into their own body.
I say this as someone who has had an operation cancelled 3 times already due to NHS pressures. 4th attempt is currently scheduled for Monday.
Unlike obesity, smoking, drinking, vaccination is very very simple and easy. Might be worth holding off till the polyvalent vaccines come out before mandating anything if you're going down that route though. And you don't have to mandate it. Having a bank account isn't mandated but life can be inconvenient without one.
Its not simple or easy for @Dura_Ace though is it Its not simple or easy for people who have been brainwashed into believing conspiracy theories. The answer is education not authoritarianism.
No it is easy for Dura_Ace because he is a total hypocrite....he hides behind tested on animals so no, but will quite happily repaint his cars when needed I am sure despite car paint being tested on animals
Regardless the answer is always education not authoritarianism.
1. How many years are we expected to suffer whilst the efforts to talk these people down continue? 2. What if they don't work?
What if what don’t work?
At the end of the day we’re going to have to deal with covid forever now. Its time to accept that and get on with it.
Oh for God's sake, the second question refers to the first.
No matter. Yes, we are going to have to deal with Covid forever, but no, the Government isn't going to do that by following the anarcho-libertarian path of letting everybody get it at once and letting the sick perish so that the survivors can then get on with life as it was before. At least, not unless it's forced to because the population is in open revolt or the country is bankrupt, and we're still some way from those scenarios.
If the hospitals are in a bad enough way, or if they think there's enough evidence to suggest that things are heading in that direction, then ministers will keep piling on the restrictions to avert disaster. The best weapon in our arsenal in the battle to avoid those restrictions is the vaccines. The more people refuse the vaccines, the more Covid patients there are, and the more likely it becomes that the restrictions keep getting worse and worse.
After nearly two years of this unending disaster these ought not to be difficult concepts to grasp.
Lol. Its now anarcho-libertarian to believe vaccines shouldn't be forced? Christ.
You utter the words "we're going to have to deal with covid forever" as if this magically makes all of the problems go away. What is your alternative means of dealing with a vast pool of completely unprotected plague bearers whose falling down sick left, right and centre threatens the rest of us with endless cycles of restrictions so that they don't cause the hospitals to fall over? Some trite bullshit about education over authoritarianism, as if talking to the heel diggers slowly and patiently about their "concerns" (which are more often than not rooted in madcap yet passionately believed in rubbish about Bill Gates' microchips and all the rest of that kind of Facebook conspiracy nonsense) is going to coax them out of the rabbit holes they've gone down in any reasonable period of time, if it all.
You've no answers at all, just an apparent willingness to let them all get the disease so that this nightmare can be over and done with. The flaw with that cunning plan, as we always keep coming back to, is that the Government won't deny the refusers medical care, so if they flood in (or threaten to do so) in large enough numbers, the lockdown levers start being pulled in an effort to choke off the flow.
The point of compulsion is to try to break the cycle of lockdowns. Not to be wantonly cruel to the anti-vaxxers or to violate their human rights, simply to prevent their choices from immiserating the rest of us. If the blessed hospitals weren't in danger of falling over because of them then none of the rest of us would need to care if they got sick and kicked the bucket. Unfortunately, this is not the situation in which we find ourselves.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
Take a look at the data.
The older people are the more likely they are to be vaccinated.
Now how does voting change among the age bands ?
You might also compare vaccination rates by ethnicity or deprivation.
As to the US Democrats I don't think its a stretch to describe them as the leftist party in that country just as the Republicans are the rightest party (though that bit might suggest they are the correct party).
And in the USA those politicians making vaccinations mandatory are Democrats.
Whereas in the UK the plan to make vaccination compulsory among NHS workers has been opposed by the Labour party.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
Makes sense that there is anti- or at least non-vax skew for these groups.
On the other hand, might not a similar skew among young or at least youngish right-leaning (if not thinking) libertarians skew the balance toward the other side of the ideological line, and then some?
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
Makes sense that there is anti- or at least non-vax skew for these groups.
On the other hand, might not a similar skew among young or at least youngish right-leaning (if not thinking) libertarians skew the balance toward the other side of the ideological line, and then some?
The young demographic I believe skew very much leftward in outlook
FPT it’s a very slippery slope when you start judging people for needing the NHS. When does it end?
@Leon guzzles booze like nobody’s business. That’s a positive act that is likely to be an NHS resource drain in the future. Driving a car at 120mph is also a positive act. Refusing a vaccine is an omission.
It feels profoundly wrong to force people to put something into their own body.
I say this as someone who has had an operation cancelled 3 times already due to NHS pressures. 4th attempt is currently scheduled for Monday.
Unlike obesity, smoking, drinking, vaccination is very very simple and easy. Might be worth holding off till the polyvalent vaccines come out before mandating anything if you're going down that route though. And you don't have to mandate it. Having a bank account isn't mandated but life can be inconvenient without one.
Its not simple or easy for @Dura_Ace though is it Its not simple or easy for people who have been brainwashed into believing conspiracy theories. The answer is education not authoritarianism.
No it is easy for Dura_Ace because he is a total hypocrite....he hides behind tested on animals so no, but will quite happily repaint his cars when needed I am sure despite car paint being tested on animals
Regardless the answer is always education not authoritarianism.
1. How many years are we expected to suffer whilst the efforts to talk these people down continue? 2. What if they don't work?
What if what don’t work?
At the end of the day we’re going to have to deal with covid forever now. Its time to accept that and get on with it.
Oh for God's sake, the second question refers to the first.
No matter. Yes, we are going to have to deal with Covid forever, but no, the Government isn't going to do that by following the anarcho-libertarian path of letting everybody get it at once and letting the sick perish so that the survivors can then get on with life as it was before. At least, not unless it's forced to because the population is in open revolt or the country is bankrupt, and we're still some way from those scenarios.
If the hospitals are in a bad enough way, or if they think there's enough evidence to suggest that things are heading in that direction, then ministers will keep piling on the restrictions to avert disaster. The best weapon in our arsenal in the battle to avoid those restrictions is the vaccines. The more people refuse the vaccines, the more Covid patients there are, and the more likely it becomes that the restrictions keep getting worse and worse.
After nearly two years of this unending disaster these ought not to be difficult concepts to grasp.
Lol. Its now anarcho-libertarian to believe vaccines shouldn't be forced? Christ.
You utter the words "we're going to have to deal with covid forever" as if this magically makes all of the problems go away. What is your alternative means of dealing with a vast pool of completely unprotected plague bearers whose falling down sick left, right and centre threatens the rest of us with endless cycles of restrictions so that they don't cause the hospitals to fall over? Some trite bullshit about education over authoritarianism, as if talking to the heel diggers slowly and patiently about their "concerns" (which are more often than not rooted in madcap yet passionately believed in rubbish about Bill Gates' microchips and all the rest of that kind of Facebook conspiracy nonsense) is going to coax them out of the rabbit holes they've gone down in any reasonable period of time, if it all.
You've no answers at all, just an apparent willingness to let them all get the disease so that this nightmare can be over and done with. The flaw with that cunning plan, as we always keep coming back to, is that the Government won't deny the refusers medical care, so if they flood in (or threaten to do so) in large enough numbers, the lockdown levers start being pulled in an effort to choke off the flow.
The point of compulsion is to try to break the cycle of lockdowns. Not to be wantonly cruel to the anti-vaxxers or to violate their human rights, simply to prevent their choices from immiserating the rest of us. If the blessed hospitals weren't in danger of falling over because of them then none of the rest of us would need to care if they got sick and kicked the bucket. Unfortunately, this is not the situation in which we find ourselves.
We have a highly vaccinated population. Those who are unvaxxed are going to get covid soon and then if they survive they will then have a level of protection for when they next get it, and so on. There isn't a never-ending supply of unvaccinated britons.
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
FPT it’s a very slippery slope when you start judging people for needing the NHS. When does it end?
@Leon guzzles booze like nobody’s business. That’s a positive act that is likely to be an NHS resource drain in the future. Driving a car at 120mph is also a positive act. Refusing a vaccine is an omission.
It feels profoundly wrong to force people to put something into their own body.
I say this as someone who has had an operation cancelled 3 times already due to NHS pressures. 4th attempt is currently scheduled for Monday.
Except you're talking about compulsion in a situation of dire national emergency as if it were a totally novel and unprecedented moral outrage. It isn't.
Not so very long ago, millions of our forebears were conscripted to fight in wars. When society was faced with an existential threat, it demanded, amongst other things, that young people fight in battles and get blown up, shot through the head or drown in icy cold seas. And if you were called up then, unless you had a very good excuse (e.g. a reserved occupation or being medically unfit) then you bloody well went. The small minority of hardcore pacifists who refused to do service of any kind were complete social pariahs who ended up imprisoned.
Fast forward a few decades and now it's considered unforgivable to ask people to have a scratch on the arm every three or six months so as to try and avoid the entire bloody country ending up under house arrest for months on end, with the education of the nation's children wrecked, otherwise viable businesses driven to the wall en masse, and the state hurtling every closer to the cliff edge of bankruptcy into the bargain.
And if the cost of your repeated cancelled operations was that you ended up dead, I doubt your surviving relatives would feel so sanguine about this problem.
I still profoundly disagree. I think people are panicking and trying to find someone, anyone, to ‘blame’ and in doing so are retreating to a level of authoritarianism to impose this panic on others.
The country does not need to be under house arrest. We’re very highly vaccinated. Thats good. The odd person who isn’t isnt going to make a difference.
But of course keep blaming others
You're just too fucking stupid to understand how vaccination works. It only works if a certain high percentage agree to do it. That's it. Otherwise everyone suffers and the disease wins.
Your miserable IQ is too low to grasp this central fact
Rubbish. I’m vaccinated therefore my immune system is better placed to fight off covid. I couldn’t give two hoots if other people are or not. Not my problem not my business.
Oh god. Oh my fucking good god
Go to bed man
I always guessed you didn't have much of a brain. i never guessed you actually don't possess a BRAIN-STEM
I think you're both wrong. The new variant is so transmissable the vaccines won't stop the spread (AIUI), even if the DAs of the world get it. So the traditional, herd immunity argument is out - this is like the common cold now.
However, if the DAs start filling up the hospitals then operations like the one GG is getting (and me too, next week) will be cancelled as the NHS collapses under the pressure.
I don't think that's true at all.
Pfizer showed that the triple vaxxed had exactly the same immune response to Omicron that the double vaxxed had to Alpha. Now, this was a small scale antibody test, but it's highly suggestive of the fact that those who have had all three jabs are going to be fine.
But still spread it?
Well, if you have it to any extent, you are going to be shedding viral material.
*But*, all the evidence is that the less severe the infection, the less viral shedding there is. (You cough and sneeze when you're sick because that's the way the virus spreads itself, by making you expel it at high velocities.)
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
70% of cases is the stat Tim Spector used only yesterday. Case rates among vaccinated has remained pretty constant background level, all the recent rise have been driven by unvaccinated.
But very bad of Times to still be using 90% figure for hospitalizations even last week....I remember when they were the paper of record!
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
And across prominent loudmouth right wing media figures and their fellow travellers too. Purely anecdotally of course. And fairly accepted too.
Didn't say no right wing people and they are just as wrong. However last figures I saw indicated some communities had as low as 60 to 70% vax rate among black and asian. A few right wing twitterers with a few hundred followers hardly count and are offset by all the left wing twitterers of the same mind
Well now. I'm the same as @Farooq. That doesn't "feel" right. So 2 things. Firstly. Voting Labour doesn't necessarily make you left wing. You should have met my Dad! Many black and Asians do. But they aren't any more left or right wing than average I reckon. They vote Labour for identity. Many others vote Tory without being right of centre. Secondly. There aren't any stats I could find of any kind for vaccine refusal by political party. Maybe there are. Or ought to be. So it remains a moot point very much unproven.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
Forgive me when I say I'm wholly unconvinced by that. But I honestly haven't thought about it before today so there may be something in it for all I know. Just my gut feeling says it's wrong.
UK anti vaxxery is mainly Greens, Blacks, quite lot of Muslims, a few orthodox Jews, a few rightwing libertarians, and just total loons
That swings Left, for sure, in toto. If you don't realise this you are either dim or in denial
America seems much more complex, where the antivax sentiment is, contrarily, less race-centred and more politics-oriented
Germany is different again, there a lot of it is driven by middle class Green homeopaths with some faint ancestral links to Nazism (Hitler was Green)
More importantly, France shows that much antivax sentiment is exceedingly feeble, wherever it comes from. It was thought to be madly antivax but then Macron imposed vaxports on everything and now it has one of the better uptakes in the entire world
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
70% of cases is the stat Tim Spector used only yesterday. Case rates among vaccinated has remained pretty constant background level, all the recent rise have been driven by unvaccinated.
But very bad of Times to still be using 90% figure for hospitalizations even last week....I remember when they were the paper of record!
For clarity and with apologies I wasn't referencing eh 70% of cases at all. I haven't seen any data on that. Only the 90% of hospitalisations as it has been popping up on my newsfeed a lot the last few days.
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
70% of cases is the stat Tim Spector used only yesterday. Case rates among vaccinated has remained pretty constant background level, all the recent rise have been driven by unvaccinated.
But very bad of Times to still be using 90% figure for hospitalizations even last week....I remember when they were the paper of record!
For clarity and with apologies I wasn't referencing eh 70% of cases at all. I haven't seen any data on that. Only the 90% of hospitalisations as it has been popping up on my newsfeed a lot the last few days.
I did think it was very very high, I thought perhaps it was actually those in ICU rather than overall hospitalisations. But it was two weeks running on the front of the Sunday Times, so I presumed it was correct.
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
Forgive me when I say I'm wholly unconvinced by that. But I honestly haven't thought about it before today so there may be something in it for all I know. Just my gut feeling says it's wrong.
UK anti vaxxery is mainly Greens, Blacks, quite lot of Muslims, a few orthodox Jews, a few rightwing libertarians, and just total loons
That swings Left, for sure, in toto. If you don't realise this you are either dim or in denial
America seems much more complex, where the antivax sentiment is, contrarily, less race-centred and more politics-oriented
Germany is different again, there a lot of it is driven by middle class Green homeopaths with some faint ancestral links to Nazism (Hitler was Green)
More importantly, France shows that much antivax sentiment is exceedingly feeble, wherever it comes from. It was thought to be madly antivax but then Macron imposed vaxports on everything and now it has one of the better uptakes in the entire world
Did the Israelis ever manage to convince the ultra-orthodox lot to get vaccinated?
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
Forgive me when I say I'm wholly unconvinced by that. But I honestly haven't thought about it before today so there may be something in it for all I know. Just my gut feeling says it's wrong.
UK anti vaxxery is mainly Greens, Blacks, quite lot of Muslims, a few orthodox Jews, a few rightwing libertarians, and just total loons
That swings Left, for sure, in toto. If you don't realise this you are either dim or in denial
America seems much more complex, where the antivax sentiment is, contrarily, less race-centred and more politics-oriented
Germany is different again, there a lot of it is driven by middle class Green homeopaths with some faint ancestral links to Nazism (Hitler was Green)
More importantly, France shows that much antivax sentiment is exceedingly feeble, wherever it comes from. It was thought to be madly antivax but then Macron imposed vaxports on everything and now it has one of the better uptakes in the entire world
Did the Israelis ever manage to convince the ultra-orthodox lot to get vaccinated?
Nope, as far as I can tell. Yet again they indulged them
Given that the report is two doses of AZN provide zero protection from infection of Omicron, would be interesting to know what percentage of those who got double AZN have since had their booster. I think about 45-50% of the population had AZN first time around.
I am in the tiny tiny "control group" of people who have had triple Moderna. I think only about 3-4% of people had Moderna first time around. Hope it works!!!
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
Does anyone know what percentage of current UK covid admissions are vaxxed? Can’t seem to find the stats
36% unvaxxed, 64% vaxxed. But far more unvaxxed in ICUs.
It was 2:1 unvaccinated to vaccinated out of 68 in Doncaster & Bassetlaw hospitals at the start of December:
Overall the age range is between 25 and 95, and the unvaccinated to vaccinated ratio sits at around two thirds of those with us currently have opted not to get the jab to one third that has.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
Awkwardly, that map probably also correlates to voter turnout. For all you know, people who vote either way are pro-vaccine, and people who don't vote at all are antivaxxers.
More evidence is needed for me to firmly agree or disagree.
This took me literally 3 seconds to google. You are a moron
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
Forgive me when I say I'm wholly unconvinced by that. But I honestly haven't thought about it before today so there may be something in it for all I know. Just my gut feeling says it's wrong.
UK anti vaxxery is mainly Greens, Blacks, quite lot of Muslims, a few orthodox Jews, a few rightwing libertarians, and just total loons
That swings Left, for sure, in toto. If you don't realise this you are either dim or in denial
America seems much more complex, where the antivax sentiment is, contrarily, less race-centred and more politics-oriented
Germany is different again, there a lot of it is driven by middle class Green homeopaths with some faint ancestral links to Nazism (Hitler was Green)
More importantly, France shows that much antivax sentiment is exceedingly feeble, wherever it comes from. It was thought to be madly antivax but then Macron imposed vaxports on everything and now it has one of the better uptakes in the entire world
Did the Israelis ever manage to convince the ultra-orthodox lot to get vaccinated?
Nope, as far as I can tell. Yet again they indulged them
I'd have thought the ultra orthodox would all have had Covid by now, given their preponderance for large gatherings exceeds even that of the staff of 10 Downing St.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
Forgive me when I say I'm wholly unconvinced by that. But I honestly haven't thought about it before today so there may be something in it for all I know. Just my gut feeling says it's wrong.
UK anti vaxxery is mainly Greens, Blacks, quite lot of Muslims, a few orthodox Jews, a few rightwing libertarians, and just total loons
That swings Left, for sure, in toto. If you don't realise this you are either dim or in denial
America seems much more complex, where the antivax sentiment is, contrarily, less race-centred and more politics-oriented
Germany is different again, there a lot of it is driven by middle class Green homeopaths with some faint ancestral links to Nazism (Hitler was Green)
More importantly, France shows that much antivax sentiment is exceedingly feeble, wherever it comes from. It was thought to be madly antivax but then Macron imposed vaxports on everything and now it has one of the better uptakes in the entire world
Did the Israelis ever manage to convince the ultra-orthodox lot to get vaccinated?
Nope, as far as I can tell. Yet again they indulged them
I'd have thought the ultra orthodox would all have had Covid by now, given their preponderance for large gatherings exceeds even that of the staff of 10 Downing St.
Apparently the Armish in the US thought they had got herd immunity, for similar reasons....but then obviously Omicron has come along.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
Forgive me when I say I'm wholly unconvinced by that. But I honestly haven't thought about it before today so there may be something in it for all I know. Just my gut feeling says it's wrong.
UK anti vaxxery is mainly Greens, Blacks, quite lot of Muslims, a few orthodox Jews, a few rightwing libertarians, and just total loons
That swings Left, for sure, in toto. If you don't realise this you are either dim or in denial
America seems much more complex, where the antivax sentiment is, contrarily, less race-centred and more politics-oriented
Germany is different again, there a lot of it is driven by middle class Green homeopaths with some faint ancestral links to Nazism (Hitler was Green)
More importantly, France shows that much antivax sentiment is exceedingly feeble, wherever it comes from. It was thought to be madly antivax but then Macron imposed vaxports on everything and now it has one of the better uptakes in the entire world
Did the Israelis ever manage to convince the ultra-orthodox lot to get vaccinated?
Nope, as far as I can tell. Yet again they indulged them
I'd have thought the ultra orthodox would all have had Covid by now, given their preponderance for large gatherings exceeds even that of the staff of 10 Downing St.
Apparently the Armish in the US thought they had got herd immunity, for similar reasons....but then obviously Omicron has come along.
Wonder how disease severity in the previously vaccinated vs the previously infected.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
Forgive me when I say I'm wholly unconvinced by that. But I honestly haven't thought about it before today so there may be something in it for all I know. Just my gut feeling says it's wrong.
UK anti vaxxery is mainly Greens, Blacks, quite lot of Muslims, a few orthodox Jews, a few rightwing libertarians, and just total loons
That swings Left, for sure, in toto. If you don't realise this you are either dim or in denial
America seems much more complex, where the antivax sentiment is, contrarily, less race-centred and more politics-oriented
Germany is different again, there a lot of it is driven by middle class Green homeopaths with some faint ancestral links to Nazism (Hitler was Green)
More importantly, France shows that much antivax sentiment is exceedingly feeble, wherever it comes from. It was thought to be madly antivax but then Macron imposed vaxports on everything and now it has one of the better uptakes in the entire world
Did the Israelis ever manage to convince the ultra-orthodox lot to get vaccinated?
Nope, as far as I can tell. Yet again they indulged them
I'd have thought the ultra orthodox would all have had Covid by now, given their preponderance for large gatherings exceeds even that of the staff of 10 Downing St.
In Israel they are paradoxically protected by the aggressive, proactive health policies of the Jewish State, which say the whole country is willing to endure quarantine partly to protect this annoying but iconic minority which will not get jabbed
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
It is fairly accepted that anti vax sentiment is prevalent in black and asian communities and amongst green voters which predominantly vote labour or other parties of the left. Though not aware of any polls or stats so purely anecdotal
Forgive me when I say I'm wholly unconvinced by that. But I honestly haven't thought about it before today so there may be something in it for all I know. Just my gut feeling says it's wrong.
UK anti vaxxery is mainly Greens, Blacks, quite lot of Muslims, a few orthodox Jews, a few rightwing libertarians, and just total loons
That swings Left, for sure, in toto. If you don't realise this you are either dim or in denial
America seems much more complex, where the antivax sentiment is, contrarily, less race-centred and more politics-oriented
Germany is different again, there a lot of it is driven by middle class Green homeopaths with some faint ancestral links to Nazism (Hitler was Green)
More importantly, France shows that much antivax sentiment is exceedingly feeble, wherever it comes from. It was thought to be madly antivax but then Macron imposed vaxports on everything and now it has one of the better uptakes in the entire world
Did the Israelis ever manage to convince the ultra-orthodox lot to get vaccinated?
In the US one of the lasting hangovers from the infamous Tuskegee Experiments and similar outrages, is significant anti-vax sentiment, or maybe more correctly vaccine-phobia. Native Americans are also somewhat wary, stemming back as far as small-pox infected blankets in colonial times.
There is also correlation re: lower levels of educational attainment, which disproportionately affects minorites, and is a major factor as well with non-college educated Whites.
ADDENDUM - Think some of these same (or similar) dynamic may also be at work in UK demography re: vaccination?
And wonder IF this is also a significant factor with some sections of Jewish communities, in particular Orthodox esp. ultras, with memories of Nazi experiments combined with the educational attainment skew, with Orthodox somewhat lower on that scale, at least with respect to non-religious ed?
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
Take a look at the data.
The older people are the more likely they are to be vaccinated.
Now how does voting change among the age bands ?
You might also compare vaccination rates by ethnicity or deprivation.
As to the US Democrats I don't think its a stretch to describe them as the leftist party in that country just as the Republicans are the rightest party (though that bit might suggest they are the correct party).
And in the USA those politicians making vaccinations mandatory are Democrats.
Whereas in the UK the plan to make vaccination compulsory among NHS workers has been opposed by the Labour party.
My initial comment is thus proved.
Far from proven. Please see my reply to pagan about the ecological fallacy. I don't think proxies work here.
The denial is amusing.
The fact remains that UK Labour opposes compulsory vaccination for health care workers but the US Democrats support compulsory vaccination for health care workers.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
For example I haven't cast a vote since 2010 because the only offerings I get is tory, labour or lib dem and I don't think any are worth voting for. Does not make me apolitical
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
Ok, here's a proper reply.
Firstly, there's people of all persuasions on here right now talking about this, and it seems to divide people on the right and left. Secondly, Democrat voters are more than half the voters of the US, so definitionally not all of them are "leftists". Unless "leftist" means something mighty peculiar in your world.
Intriguing claim in your second post there, about non-vaccinated in the UK being "predominantly on the left". Any source for that claim, I haven't heard it before.
Take a look at the data.
The older people are the more likely they are to be vaccinated.
Now how does voting change among the age bands ?
You might also compare vaccination rates by ethnicity or deprivation.
As to the US Democrats I don't think its a stretch to describe them as the leftist party in that country just as the Republicans are the rightest party (though that bit might suggest they are the correct party).
And in the USA those politicians making vaccinations mandatory are Democrats.
Whereas in the UK the plan to make vaccination compulsory among NHS workers has been opposed by the Labour party.
My initial comment is thus proved.
Far from proven. Please see my reply to pagan about the ecological fallacy. I don't think proxies work here.
The denial is amusing.
The fact remains that UK Labour opposes compulsory vaccination for health care workers but the US Democrats support compulsory vaccination for health care workers.
I have come to the melancholy conclusion that Farooq is genuinely quite stupid.
He or she seemed to be a promising young commenter. But, sigh, no
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
Which considering how few of the population (especially at risk population) are unvaccinated goes to show the importance of the vaccines.
It also means that mandatory vaccination (and Vaxports etc) is a complete waste of time in a UK context as well as deeply illiberal - if you could snap your fingers to vaccinate all the remaining unvaxed right now, it would reduce the hospital load by less than one doubling - so at the current growth rate of Omicron, it buys you about a day.
The UK has had a stellar vaccine uptake, particularly in at risk groups - getting the last few stragglers really isn't worth getting excersised about.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
Very true. But when it comes to elections - and thus political betting - the fews of non-voters only have impact a) to the degree they affect those who DO vote; and/or b) to the extent that they get agitated enough to actually vote despite their native sloth, anarchism, whatever.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
And too lazy to get a jab. So in summary we don't know what their politics are and we don't know why they aren't jabbed. Are you sure you're sure about the left-right thing? It's looking shakier than ever.
Nope you are just digging to find reasons to deny it frankly. Even those that dont vote have leanings politically whether they are too lazy to vote or not. If 70% lean left then anti vax is predominantly a left wing thing here on balance of probability. Look at our most prominent anti vaxxer...dura_ace....considers corbyn a bit too right wing
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
Very true. But when it comes to elections - and thus political betting - the fews of non-voters only have impact a) to the degree they affect those who DO vote; and/or b) to the extent that they get agitated enough to actually vote despite their native sloth, anarchism, whatever.
We aren't talking about elections so have no idea what you are wittering about. The subject is do most anti vaxxers in the uk tend to lean left. I think the balance of probabilities indicates they do. No one is talking about elections
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
For example I haven't cast a vote since 2010 because the only offerings I get is tory, labour or lib dem and I don't think any are worth voting for. Does not make me apolitical
In your case, your impact is on others, to the extent that you actually influence their voting decisions.
Certainly you have some impact on PB. Though whether enough to, say, power a toaster, is another question. But it's NOT zero.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
Certainly a minority but its how big a minority compared to a different minority.
Say 95% of Conservative voters have been vaccinated and 85% of Labour voters.
The non-vaccinated are a small minority of each but the Labour minority would be three times 15%:5% as large as that of the Conservatives.
I wonder if people are struggling to accept this because it is so different to the situation in the USA, where anti-vaxxery is so predominant among Trump supporters and where Democrats from Biden downwards are pushing compulsory vaccination.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
Very true. But when it comes to elections - and thus political betting - the fews of non-voters only have impact a) to the degree they affect those who DO vote; and/or b) to the extent that they get agitated enough to actually vote despite their native sloth, anarchism, whatever.
We aren't talking about elections so have no idea what you are wittering about. The subject is do most anti vaxxers in the uk tend to lean left. I think the balance of probabilities indicates they do. No one is talking about elections
But then you did!
EDIT - it's all intertwined, interrelated anyway. As shown by references to Trump voters.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
Certainly a minority but its how big a minority compared to a different minority.
Say 95% of Conservative voters have been vaccinated and 85% of Labour voters.
The non-vaccinated are a small minority of each but the Labour minority would be three times 15%:5% as large as that of the Conservatives.
I wonder if people are struggling to accept this because it is so different to the situation in the USA, where anti-vaxxery is so predominant among Trump supporters and where Democrats from Biden downwards are pushing compulsory vaccination.
I wonder if its an effect of this is not a government I voted for so going to resist...in the us the democrats are in power therefore republicans are antivax, here the tories are in power so left leaning people are antivax
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
Very true. But when it comes to elections - and thus political betting - the fews of non-voters only have impact a) to the degree they affect those who DO vote; and/or b) to the extent that they get agitated enough to actually vote despite their native sloth, anarchism, whatever.
We aren't talking about elections so have no idea what you are wittering about. The subject is do most anti vaxxers in the uk tend to lean left. I think the balance of probabilities indicates they do. No one is talking about elections
But then you did!
No I merely pointed out that saying those that dont vote aren't necessarily apolitical
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
Very true. But when it comes to elections - and thus political betting - the fews of non-voters only have impact a) to the degree they affect those who DO vote; and/or b) to the extent that they get agitated enough to actually vote despite their native sloth, anarchism, whatever.
We aren't talking about elections so have no idea what you are wittering about. The subject is do most anti vaxxers in the uk tend to lean left. I think the balance of probabilities indicates they do. No one is talking about elections
But then you did!
No I merely pointed out that saying those that dont vote aren't necessarily apolitical
No argument with that thesis.
In my experience many folks very passionate about their politics are confirmed non-voters. With the one feeding the other.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
Very true. But when it comes to elections - and thus political betting - the fews of non-voters only have impact a) to the degree they affect those who DO vote; and/or b) to the extent that they get agitated enough to actually vote despite their native sloth, anarchism, whatever.
We aren't talking about elections so have no idea what you are wittering about. The subject is do most anti vaxxers in the uk tend to lean left. I think the balance of probabilities indicates they do. No one is talking about elections
But then you did!
No I merely pointed out that saying those that dont vote aren't necessarily apolitical
No argument with that thesis.
In my experience many folks very passionate about their politics are confirmed non-voters. With the one feeding the other.
As soon as a party that is economically liberal and socially liberal stands in my constituency I will vote again. Sadly I get a choice of left, lefter, and lefter still
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
Which considering how few of the population (especially at risk population) are unvaccinated goes to show the importance of the vaccines.
It also means that mandatory vaccination (and Vaxports etc) is a complete waste of time in a UK context as well as deeply illiberal - if you could snap your fingers to vaccinate all the remaining unvaxed right now, it would reduce the hospital load by less than one doubling - so at the current growth rate of Omicron, it buys you about a day.
The UK has had a stellar vaccine uptake, particularly in at risk groups - getting the last few stragglers really isn't worth getting excersised about.
I'm really not sure your mathematics are right there.
Especially since I believe the unvaccinated can be more likely to go into ICU, and more likely to be hospitalised for longer, so admissions alone are not the only figure that matters.
A case that ends up in ICU for a fortnight is much more of an issue than a case that ends up precautionary in hospital for 24-48 hours then discharged.
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
The name of the pollster is Focaldata (and client Times Radio).
Rather oddly, they compare their results with an unpublished “internal poll” last week. The Conservatives are down 4 points since 2-3 December.
Although they claim to be bona fide (“Focaldata is a registered member of the British Polling Council (BPC) and the Market Research Society (MRS)”) they appear to fail to follow BPC rules, ie no detailed tables have been published.
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
I thought they had a team of experts to advise them?
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
I thought they had a team of experts to advise them?
A team of experts in the background is absolutely worthless when the people making the decisions are “thick” and “poorly educated”.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
And too lazy to get a jab. So in summary we don't know what their politics are and we don't know why they aren't jabbed. Are you sure you're sure about the left-right thing? It's looking shakier than ever.
Nope you are just digging to find reasons to deny it frankly. Even those that dont vote have leanings politically whether they are too lazy to vote or not. If 70% lean left then anti vax is predominantly a left wing thing here on balance of probability. Look at our most prominent anti vaxxer...dura_ace....considers corbyn a bit too right wing
Look, you don't need to get hung up on the word "apolitical". Discard it and replace with "non voters" if you like. The point was you can't know about their political views without either some kind of survey or them voting. My post about the "apolitical" correlating to antivax is obviously completely unproven and suffers from the ecological fallacy, but the fact that it is exactly the same format as your argument is the point. You really need to understand the ecological fallacy before you carry on with this, because once you do you'll see you need better evidence. And lastly (I know, I know, I really am going to bed now though) I'm not even sure you're wrong. Far from it, you may well be right. But your methodology is fatally flawed. As for switching to "look at Dura_Ace", that switching your flawed methodology for a poll of size 1, with selection bias. Come on, we ALL know that's not science.
It also has 15% voting for the "Basis" party. This doesn't seem right, only 1.6% voted Basis, so even if 100% of Basis voters are unvaccinated (likely as it is an antivax party) turnout amongst unvaccinated would have to be half that of vaccinated for this to be possible. Similarly the AfD figure would imply all AfD voters being unvaccinated (very unlikely), or very low turnout among unvaccinated. So I'm not sure what's going on here.
Still, it does show only 3% voted Green, which is the most popular party for 18-25 year olds, which would support your idea.
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
Indeed it’s fascinating to read US news right now. Mainly it’s inflation, a storm that killed 2, Russia-Ukraine and abortion in Texas. Covid is being reported largely through the prism of the uk.
But wait I hear you say. The US had its head up its arse in Feb-March 2020, allowing for a historic one way trading bet for anyone aware of what was happening in Italy.
So let’s refer to the South African news. Some race issues, a retiring MP, Zuma, cricket, poaching… there’s a story about “trace levels of omicron found in Cape Town waste water” and another about the difficulty of enforcing any covid restrictions on the beach.
Either our country has gone entirely fucking mad. Or the whole lot of you doomcasters should stop wasting your time betting on a bye election and use every scrap of available liquidity to buy deep out the money NYSE puts with expiry about 6-8 weeks from now.
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
Which considering how few of the population (especially at risk population) are unvaccinated goes to show the importance of the vaccines.
It also means that mandatory vaccination (and Vaxports etc) is a complete waste of time in a UK context as well as deeply illiberal - if you could snap your fingers to vaccinate all the remaining unvaxed right now, it would reduce the hospital load by less than one doubling - so at the current growth rate of Omicron, it buys you about a day.
The UK has had a stellar vaccine uptake, particularly in at risk groups - getting the last few stragglers really isn't worth getting excersised about.
Yes, but we can tax the sh*ts extra to make them pay for their stupidity/cowardice/lack of care for others.
They are causing extra harm to the country. They should pay for it (fiscally).
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
I thought they had a team of experts to advise them?
A team of experts in the background is absolutely worthless when the people making the decisions are “thick” and “poorly educated”.
cf Brexit
Problem is, in Gove and Johnson we are governed by ex hacks, backed up by second rate media and comms people. The PM’s personal sounding board at home is an art history grad that worked in Pr.
In Sunak & Javid we have backgrounds who should be capable of absorbing technical info outside their expertise and executing decisions. But they’re greasy pole climbers.
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
Which considering how few of the population (especially at risk population) are unvaccinated goes to show the importance of the vaccines.
It also means that mandatory vaccination (and Vaxports etc) is a complete waste of time in a UK context as well as deeply illiberal - if you could snap your fingers to vaccinate all the remaining unvaxed right now, it would reduce the hospital load by less than one doubling - so at the current growth rate of Omicron, it buys you about a day.
The UK has had a stellar vaccine uptake, particularly in at risk groups - getting the last few stragglers really isn't worth getting excersised about.
Yes, but we can tax the sh*ts extra to make them pay for their stupidity/cowardice/lack of care for others.
They are causing extra harm to the country. They should pay for it (fiscally).
Starmer repeatedly used the word “lies” about the prime minister in the clip broadcast by Radio 4’s Midnight News. I was a bit taken aback. This is highly unusual language. He must be very, very confident that the case against BJ is rock solid.
There's a contrast between the tolerance of anti-vaxxers among some leftists in the UK compared to the support for compulsory vaccination among Democrats in the USA.
Strange, strange post.
I see you cannot make a proper reply.
Perhaps the difference I pointed out upsets you ?
Here's another difference between the UK and USA on vaccination:
In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left, in the USA the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the right.
Which I'll suggest highlights the difference between the UK and USA voters of the right.
"In the UK the non-vaccinated are predominantly on the left." Are you entirely sure of that?
Age correlates closely to vaccination status.
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
You raise an interesting point. My only counter would be that outright vaccine refusers are a minority of any demographic cohort. Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk. It is late. I will consider this overnight.
If a particular age cohort votes 70% left (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be left leaning. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
If a particular age cohort doesn't vote 50% (the young) and also has the highest percentage of vaccine refusers then on the balance of probabilities is that most of those anti vaxxers will be apolitical. You would need strong proof the other way to not make the assumption.
Well see the reason that is wrong because even those that don't bother to vote often have political leanings. They aren't apolitical merely too fucking lazy to vote
And too lazy to get a jab. So in summary we don't know what their politics are and we don't know why they aren't jabbed. Are you sure you're sure about the left-right thing? It's looking shakier than ever.
Nope you are just digging to find reasons to deny it frankly. Even those that dont vote have leanings politically whether they are too lazy to vote or not. If 70% lean left then anti vax is predominantly a left wing thing here on balance of probability. Look at our most prominent anti vaxxer...dura_ace....considers corbyn a bit too right wing
Look, you don't need to get hung up on the word "apolitical". Discard it and replace with "non voters" if you like. The point was you can't know about their political views without either some kind of survey or them voting. My post about the "apolitical" correlating to antivax is obviously completely unproven and suffers from the ecological fallacy, but the fact that it is exactly the same format as your argument is the point. You really need to understand the ecological fallacy before you carry on with this, because once you do you'll see you need better evidence. And lastly (I know, I know, I really am going to bed now though) I'm not even sure you're wrong. Far from it, you may well be right. But your methodology is fatally flawed. As for switching to "look at Dura_Ace", that switching your flawed methodology for a poll of size 1, with selection bias. Come on, we ALL know that's not science.
It also has 15% voting for the "Basis" party. This doesn't seem right, only 1.6% voted Basis, so even if 100% of Basis voters are unvaccinated (likely as it is an antivax party) turnout amongst unvaccinated would have to be half that of vaccinated for this to be possible. Similarly the AfD figure would imply all AfD voters being unvaccinated (very unlikely), or very low turnout among unvaccinated. So I'm not sure what's going on here.
Still, it does show only 3% voted Green, which is the most popular party for 18-25 year olds, which would support your idea.
The point being you can't just say 18-25 year olds have the lowest rate of vaccination in Germany The Greens are the most popular party among 18-25 year olds. Therefore the unvaccinated lean Green.
No, you need some more evidence.
What that poll also seems to say is that while both the SPD and Greens have hardly any unvaccinated voters to lose, their rightwing coalition partners the FDP do have a few.
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
I thought they had a team of experts to advise them?
A team of experts in the background is absolutely worthless when the people making the decisions are “thick” and “poorly educated”.
cf Brexit
This reads like an old-fashioned argument against democracy.
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
Indeed it’s fascinating to read US news right now. Mainly it’s inflation, a storm that killed 2, Russia-Ukraine and abortion in Texas. Covid is being reported largely through the prism of the uk.
But wait I hear you say. The US had its head up its arse in Feb-March 2020, allowing for a historic one way trading bet for anyone aware of what was happening in Italy.
So let’s refer to the South African news. Some race issues, a retiring MP, Zuma, cricket, poaching… there’s a story about “trace levels of omicron found in Cape Town waste water” and another about the difficulty of enforcing any covid restrictions on the beach.
Either our country has gone entirely fucking mad. Or the whole lot of you doomcasters should stop wasting your time betting on a bye election and use every scrap of available liquidity to buy deep out the money NYSE puts with expiry about 6-8 weeks from now.
The by-election is far more important. The Tories are probably going to lose it, and that means a leadership challenge to Boris Johnson. I wonder what percentage of the public have even heard of Liz Truss? She could be prime minister in a few months' time.
FPT it’s a very slippery slope when you start judging people for needing the NHS. When does it end?
@Leon guzzles booze like nobody’s business. That’s a positive act that is likely to be an NHS resource drain in the future. Driving a car at 120mph is also a positive act. Refusing a vaccine is an omission.
It feels profoundly wrong to force people to put something into their own body.
I say this as someone who has had an operation cancelled 3 times already due to NHS pressures. 4th attempt is currently scheduled for Monday.
Hope the op is as scheduled and goes well for you!
I’m glad I had my cancer a couple of decades ago. A friend of mine is going through her year in hell right now and it has brought back a lot of otherwise suppressed memories. In retrospect, I had an easy time of it.
It's a huge majority to overturn so that feels like the most likely outcome but these are strange and febrile times...
I spend a bit of time on a UK motorbike FB group and I've almost never seen politics mentioned in the years I've been on it. However this week I've seen...
"I liked Boris at first and gave him the benefit of the doubt but now I think he's a ****." "Boris is a ****." "He's an absolute ****."
etc. That is 'cut through'.
I concur.
I’ve noticed that friends and acquaintances who normally never mention politics are, unprompted, voicing strong political opinions. The general population seems to be awakening from a restless slumber. They look grumpy.
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
Indeed it’s fascinating to read US news right now. Mainly it’s inflation, a storm that killed 2, Russia-Ukraine and abortion in Texas. Covid is being reported largely through the prism of the uk.
But wait I hear you say. The US had its head up its arse in Feb-March 2020, allowing for a historic one way trading bet for anyone aware of what was happening in Italy.
So let’s refer to the South African news. Some race issues, a retiring MP, Zuma, cricket, poaching… there’s a story about “trace levels of omicron found in Cape Town waste water” and another about the difficulty of enforcing any covid restrictions on the beach.
Either our country has gone entirely fucking mad. Or the whole lot of you doomcasters should stop wasting your time betting on a bye election and use every scrap of available liquidity to buy deep out the money NYSE puts with expiry about 6-8 weeks from now.
The by-election is far more important. The Tories are probably going to lose it, and that means a leadership challenge to Boris Johnson. I wonder what percentage of the public have even heard of Liz Truss? She could be prime minister in a few months' time.
You are talking at cross purposes. Moonshine is highlighting what he sees as a massive opportunity on the US equity markets (where I happen to disagree with his analysis). He contrasts this with the thin financial gruel of this by election market.
You on the other hand are talking solely about politics (and are also probably wrong).
However, the oddest aspect of this exchange is that moonshine is responding to his own post with “indeed”!! Did he forget to log out and log in?
70% of cases? That doesn't sounds right to me. Not with such a large proportion vaccinated. Can't read the article, paywalled.
Sadly these numbers are far out of date. Fullfact picked up on them after they were used in the Economist last month and then a few days ago on TV. It was the case for a while in the middle of the summer that 90% of those in hospital were unvaccinated but that proportion dropped steadily through the last summer and autumn as Delta became more prevalent and as more people got double jabbed. Currently around 36% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
Which considering how few of the population (especially at risk population) are unvaccinated goes to show the importance of the vaccines.
It also means that mandatory vaccination (and Vaxports etc) is a complete waste of time in a UK context as well as deeply illiberal - if you could snap your fingers to vaccinate all the remaining unvaxed right now, it would reduce the hospital load by less than one doubling - so at the current growth rate of Omicron, it buys you about a day.
The UK has had a stellar vaccine uptake, particularly in at risk groups - getting the last few stragglers really isn't worth getting excersised about.
Yes, but we can tax the sh*ts extra to make them pay for their stupidity/cowardice/lack of care for others.
They are causing extra harm to the country. They should pay for it (fiscally).
Quite a chart. Scottish govt has implemented over £500m of income tax increases (equivalent to >£5bn in UK terms) These have netted *nothing* in additional revenues relative to no devolution. Scottish incomes have risen more slowly, and income tax base has shrunk, relative to UK
FPT it’s a very slippery slope when you start judging people for needing the NHS. When does it end?
@Leon guzzles booze like nobody’s business. That’s a positive act that is likely to be an NHS resource drain in the future. Driving a car at 120mph is also a positive act. Refusing a vaccine is an omission.
It feels profoundly wrong to force people to put something into their own body.
I say this as someone who has had an operation cancelled 3 times already due to NHS pressures. 4th attempt is currently scheduled for Monday.
Except you're talking about compulsion in a situation of dire national emergency as if it were a totally novel and unprecedented moral outrage. It isn't.
Not so very long ago, millions of our forebears were conscripted to fight in wars. When society was faced with an existential threat, it demanded, amongst other things, that young people fight in battles and get blown up, shot through the head or drown in icy cold seas. And if you were called up then, unless you had a very good excuse (e.g. a reserved occupation or being medically unfit) then you bloody well went. The small minority of hardcore pacifists who refused to do service of any kind were complete social pariahs who ended up imprisoned.
Fast forward a few decades and now it's considered unforgivable to ask people to have a scratch on the arm every three or six months so as to try and avoid the entire bloody country ending up under house arrest for months on end, with the education of the nation's children wrecked, otherwise viable businesses driven to the wall en masse, and the state hurtling every closer to the cliff edge of bankruptcy into the bargain.
And if the cost of your repeated cancelled operations was that you ended up dead, I doubt your surviving relatives would feel so sanguine about this problem.
Yes, exactly
I confess my patience has ENTIRELY snapped with vax refuseniks like Dura, however entertaining he might be, on occasion. It especially snaps when he starts opining on bloody politics. To continue your analogy, it is like some conscientious objector in 1944 complaining about the awful tactics during D Day and demanding resignations. Jeez no. Do one. Fuck. Right. Off. Never speak again
But my anger - which is genuine - is running away with me, and I will rein it in, for the sake of the site. And the mods. FWIW I have the same anger to refuseniks in my personal life, I now find it very hard not to slap them. This is not "personal"
Singapore will no longer pay for hospitalisation for unvaccinated COVID patients. All arrivals have to have been double jabbed AND have insurance for hospital treatment for COVID.
Some light reading for Andrew Windsor, formerly known as a prince.
- “Despite assertions that there is no reason to pursue these abuse cases following Epstein’s death, the cases do not end just because the alleged ringleader cannot be convicted. Former US Attorney General Bill Barr said, “Any co-conspirators should not rest easy. The victims deserve justice and they will get it.” Many others, including the “powerful men, moguls, media giants” Sternheim spoke of have yet to be charged or tried for their alleged abuses in connection with this case.”
Singapore will no longer pay for hospitalisation for unvaccinated COVID patients. All arrivals have to have been double jabbed AND have insurance for hospital treatment for COVID.
How bad is the situation in Singapore's hospitals?
"An MP has lodged a bid for the controversial renaming of an historic Scots pub called the ‘Black Bitch’ to be debated in Parliament.
Linlithgow MP Martyn Day tabled the early day motion after major pub chain Greene King confirmed plans to change the name of the town’s bar to more “inclusive” title the Black Hound.
The move has sparked outrage in the town, with a petition calling for the name to remain gathering more than 6,000 signatures in a matter of days and former First Minister Alex Salmond wading into the row."
Vox pops are a good indicator or programs with a TV audience. HIGNFY has an audience that's there for a laugh. Tonight's seemed worked up in a way I can't remember seeing before.. A change has taken place.
It wasn't a year old Christmas Party. It was a repulsion against privilege and entitlement. Why it happened this week I can't say. But that's the way zeitgeist works. Several things at the same time that you can't put your finger on.
For me it was Johnson 's grin Allegra's smirk and the policeman's costume but it could just be the weather.
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
Indeed it’s fascinating to read US news right now. Mainly it’s inflation, a storm that killed 2, Russia-Ukraine and abortion in Texas. Covid is being reported largely through the prism of the uk.
But wait I hear you say. The US had its head up its arse in Feb-March 2020, allowing for a historic one way trading bet for anyone aware of what was happening in Italy.
So let’s refer to the South African news. Some race issues, a retiring MP, Zuma, cricket, poaching… there’s a story about “trace levels of omicron found in Cape Town waste water” and another about the difficulty of enforcing any covid restrictions on the beach.
Either our country has gone entirely fucking mad. Or the whole lot of you doomcasters should stop wasting your time betting on a bye election and use every scrap of available liquidity to buy deep out the money NYSE puts with expiry about 6-8 weeks from now.
I don't trade stonks, I just buy companies I like and sit on them forever, or sometimes I let my cat pick them from the Nikkei listing page. But last time they were quite weird: Nothing happened for a while and we were all staring at them wondering why they weren't crashing, had the markets not noticed the incoming global pandemic or what. Then they finally did an almighty crash, and everything seemed to make sense, in a world where pb readers knew what was going on ahead of time but the rest of the world was dozy... but then they bounced back and proceeded to go to record highs.
I don't think just knowing what was happening in Italy would have got you to profitable trades. Working out that the market was going to shit the bed wasn't enough, you also had to know that it was going to unshit it.
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
Indeed it’s fascinating to read US news right now. Mainly it’s inflation, a storm that killed 2, Russia-Ukraine and abortion in Texas. Covid is being reported largely through the prism of the uk.
But wait I hear you say. The US had its head up its arse in Feb-March 2020, allowing for a historic one way trading bet for anyone aware of what was happening in Italy.
So let’s refer to the South African news. Some race issues, a retiring MP, Zuma, cricket, poaching… there’s a story about “trace levels of omicron found in Cape Town waste water” and another about the difficulty of enforcing any covid restrictions on the beach.
Either our country has gone entirely fucking mad. Or the whole lot of you doomcasters should stop wasting your time betting on a bye election and use every scrap of available liquidity to buy deep out the money NYSE puts with expiry about 6-8 weeks from now.
I don't trade stonks, I just buy companies I like and sit on them forever, or sometimes I let my cat pick them from the Nikkei listing page. But last time they were quite weird: Nothing happened for a while and we were all staring at them wondering why they weren't crashing, had the markets not noticed the incoming global pandemic or what. Then they finally did an almighty crash, and everything seemed to make sense, in a world where pb readers knew what was going on ahead of time but the rest of the world was dozy... but then they bounced back and proceeded to go to record highs.
I don't think just knowing what was happening in Italy would have got you to profitable trades. Working out that the market was going to shit the bed wasn't enough, you also had to know that it was going to unshit it.
Spot on!
The fundamental flaw with all these superficially wise insights into equity market trades is that you have to be right *TWICE*.
FPT it’s a very slippery slope when you start judging people for needing the NHS. When does it end?
@Leon guzzles booze like nobody’s business. That’s a positive act that is likely to be an NHS resource drain in the future. Driving a car at 120mph is also a positive act. Refusing a vaccine is an omission.
It feels profoundly wrong to force people to put something into their own body.
I say this as someone who has had an operation cancelled 3 times already due to NHS pressures. 4th attempt is currently scheduled for Monday.
Except you're talking about compulsion in a situation of dire national emergency as if it were a totally novel and unprecedented moral outrage. It isn't.
Not so very long ago, millions of our forebears were conscripted to fight in wars. When society was faced with an existential threat, it demanded, amongst other things, that young people fight in battles and get blown up, shot through the head or drown in icy cold seas. And if you were called up then, unless you had a very good excuse (e.g. a reserved occupation or being medically unfit) then you bloody well went. The small minority of hardcore pacifists who refused to do service of any kind were complete social pariahs who ended up imprisoned.
Fast forward a few decades and now it's considered unforgivable to ask people to have a scratch on the arm every three or six months so as to try and avoid the entire bloody country ending up under house arrest for months on end, with the education of the nation's children wrecked, otherwise viable businesses driven to the wall en masse, and the state hurtling every closer to the cliff edge of bankruptcy into the bargain.
And if the cost of your repeated cancelled operations was that you ended up dead, I doubt your surviving relatives would feel so sanguine about this problem.
I still profoundly disagree. I think people are panicking and trying to find someone, anyone, to ‘blame’ and in doing so are retreating to a level of authoritarianism to impose this panic on others.
The country does not need to be under house arrest. We’re very highly vaccinated. Thats good. The odd person who isn’t isnt going to make a difference.
But of course keep blaming others
People are scared. Some of the virus. Others of another lockdown. Yet others of societal disorder if there is another lockdown. Of the effect on their mental health. On their physical health. On their personal finances. On their kids' education and future. The common factor is fear as a result of the uncertainty and lack of control. After two years of it. And six months when many have thought it over, it is too much to process. Hence panic. And the febrile atmosphere on here and elsewhere. Doesn't help that it has sunk in with most that our leader isn't up to it.
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
Indeed it’s fascinating to read US news right now. Mainly it’s inflation, a storm that killed 2, Russia-Ukraine and abortion in Texas. Covid is being reported largely through the prism of the uk.
But wait I hear you say. The US had its head up its arse in Feb-March 2020, allowing for a historic one way trading bet for anyone aware of what was happening in Italy.
So let’s refer to the South African news. Some race issues, a retiring MP, Zuma, cricket, poaching… there’s a story about “trace levels of omicron found in Cape Town waste water” and another about the difficulty of enforcing any covid restrictions on the beach.
Either our country has gone entirely fucking mad. Or the whole lot of you doomcasters should stop wasting your time betting on a bye election and use every scrap of available liquidity to buy deep out the money NYSE puts with expiry about 6-8 weeks from now.
I don't trade stonks, I just buy companies I like and sit on them forever, or sometimes I let my cat pick them from the Nikkei listing page. But last time they were quite weird: Nothing happened for a while and we were all staring at them wondering why they weren't crashing, had the markets not noticed the incoming global pandemic or what. Then they finally did an almighty crash, and everything seemed to make sense, in a world where pb readers knew what was going on ahead of time but the rest of the world was dozy... but then they bounced back and proceeded to go to record highs.
I don't think just knowing what was happening in Italy would have got you to profitable trades. Working out that the market was going to shit the bed wasn't enough, you also had to know that it was going to unshit it.
I sold 90% or my equities in Feb2020 and bought back in in April and MY of 2020. I timed it pretty well. Not an easy one to repeat!
This time it is harder. We know that large sectors of the economy are actually pretty robust, so likely to be less affected by a massive sell off. There is also increasing pointers to stagflation both here and the USA. Investing for that prospect is quite tricky.
Yesterday's anaemic GDP figures, and the poor trade figures, with us falling further and further behind equally covid affected benchmarks also make stockpicking difficult. At the moment I am 95% equities but in ones not particularly exposed to UK Consumer spending.
The markets Santa rally seems particularly crazy at a time of Omicron, but as the saying goes, the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.
Even by my own standards as a connoisseur of insomnia, had an abysmal night's sleep. Glad the race isn't today.
Stay off the booze is my advice.
I had a white month recently and I’ve not slept better since my childhood.
I reckon that 80% of sleep problems are directly attributable to alcohol and other intoxicants. I can heartily recommend a thorough detox. Christmas is an excellent time to start: all that faux joviality just makes the Jan/Feb dip even worse.
My hunch is that if you are going to back the tories in North Shropshire the odds will improve as the week goes on; as punters abandon their over optimistic positions in favour of a blue win.
I wouldn't be suprised if, by election day, they are down to something like 4/1. And that will be the time to back the tories; not now.
“ Vast majority of Britons have NO PROTECTION against Omicron: After 100 days two AstraZeneca doses offer virtually zero defence while two Pfizer jabs provide just 37% protection against new variant - but boosters cut risk of falling ill by 75%”
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
Indeed it’s fascinating to read US news right now. Mainly it’s inflation, a storm that killed 2, Russia-Ukraine and abortion in Texas. Covid is being reported largely through the prism of the uk.
But wait I hear you say. The US had its head up its arse in Feb-March 2020, allowing for a historic one way trading bet for anyone aware of what was happening in Italy.
So let’s refer to the South African news. Some race issues, a retiring MP, Zuma, cricket, poaching… there’s a story about “trace levels of omicron found in Cape Town waste water” and another about the difficulty of enforcing any covid restrictions on the beach.
Either our country has gone entirely fucking mad. Or the whole lot of you doomcasters should stop wasting your time betting on a bye election and use every scrap of available liquidity to buy deep out the money NYSE puts with expiry about 6-8 weeks from now.
I don't trade stonks, I just buy companies I like and sit on them forever, or sometimes I let my cat pick them from the Nikkei listing page. But last time they were quite weird: Nothing happened for a while and we were all staring at them wondering why they weren't crashing, had the markets not noticed the incoming global pandemic or what. Then they finally did an almighty crash, and everything seemed to make sense, in a world where pb readers knew what was going on ahead of time but the rest of the world was dozy... but then they bounced back and proceeded to go to record highs.
I don't think just knowing what was happening in Italy would have got you to profitable trades. Working out that the market was going to shit the bed wasn't enough, you also had to know that it was going to unshit it.
I sold 90% or my equities in Feb2020 and bought back in in April and MY of 2020. I timed it pretty well. Not an easy one to repeat!
This time it is harder. We know that large sectors of the economy are actually pretty robust, so likely to be less affected by a massive sell off. There is also increasing pointers to stagflation both here and the USA. Investing for that prospect is quite tricky.
Yesterday's anaemic GDP figures, and the poor trade figures, with us falling further and further behind equally covid affected benchmarks also make stockpicking difficult. At the moment I am 95% equities but in ones not particularly exposed to UK Consumer spending.
The markets Santa rally seems particularly crazy at a time of Omicron, but as the saying goes, the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.
I sold 90% or my equities in Feb2020 and bought back in in April and MY of 2020. I timed it pretty well. Not an easy one to repeat!
Nice. Out of interest what motivated the buying back part? Did the crash just seem like it had gone further than it should, or did your take on the underlying situation change between February and April?
Comments
The taxes we have in place clearly haven't had any impact on obesity levels.
Need a different approach.
You've no answers at all, just an apparent willingness to let them all get the disease so that this nightmare can be over and done with. The flaw with that cunning plan, as we always keep coming back to, is that the Government won't deny the refusers medical care, so if they flood in (or threaten to do so) in large enough numbers, the lockdown levers start being pulled in an effort to choke off the flow.
The point of compulsion is to try to break the cycle of lockdowns. Not to be wantonly cruel to the anti-vaxxers or to violate their human rights, simply to prevent their choices from immiserating the rest of us. If the blessed hospitals weren't in danger of falling over because of them then none of the rest of us would need to care if they got sick and kicked the bucket. Unfortunately, this is not the situation in which we find ourselves.
The older people are the more likely they are to be vaccinated.
Now how does voting change among the age bands ?
You might also compare vaccination rates by ethnicity or deprivation.
As to the US Democrats I don't think its a stretch to describe them as the leftist party in that country just as the Republicans are the rightest party (though that bit might suggest they are the correct party).
And in the USA those politicians making vaccinations mandatory are Democrats.
Whereas in the UK the plan to make vaccination compulsory among NHS workers has been opposed by the Labour party.
My initial comment is thus proved.
On the other hand, might not a similar skew among young or at least youngish right-leaning (if not thinking) libertarians skew the balance toward the other side of the ideological line, and then some?
https://fullfact.org/health/dr-hilary-lorraine-kelly-90-percent/
*But*, all the evidence is that the less severe the infection, the less viral shedding there is. (You cough and sneeze when you're sick because that's the way the virus spreads itself, by making you expel it at high velocities.)
But very bad of Times to still be using 90% figure for hospitalizations even last week....I remember when they were the paper of record!
Firstly. Voting Labour doesn't necessarily make you left wing. You should have met my Dad! Many black and Asians do. But they aren't any more left or right wing than average I reckon. They vote Labour for identity. Many others vote Tory without being right of centre.
Secondly. There aren't any stats I could find of any kind for vaccine refusal by political party.
Maybe there are. Or ought to be.
So it remains a moot point very much unproven.
That swings Left, for sure, in toto. If you don't realise this you are either dim or in denial
America seems much more complex, where the antivax sentiment is, contrarily, less race-centred and more politics-oriented
Germany is different again, there a lot of it is driven by middle class Green homeopaths with some faint ancestral links to Nazism (Hitler was Green)
More importantly, France shows that much antivax sentiment is exceedingly feeble, wherever it comes from. It was thought to be madly antivax but then Macron imposed vaxports on everything and now it has one of the better uptakes in the entire world
I mean, Cockshutt? And next to Pettin? Which is not far from Queen's Head (!) by way of Baggy Moor?
Plus Grindley Brook, Norton in Hales and Stanton Upon Hine Heath (hope last two are consensual?)
Also Hampton Wood, North Wood and Wistanwick.
And Lord knows re: Rewl, Wem, Perthy and Great Bolas!
Makes me want to Pant . . .
As it does to voting.
Add in ethnicity and deprivation as lesser factors.
The vaccination map does match the electoral map pretty closely:
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map/vaccinations
I am in the tiny tiny "control group" of people who have had triple Moderna. I think only about 3-4% of people had Moderna first time around. Hope it works!!!
USA Stats.
Gregory Travis -- "The Duke of Mild" (TM)
@greg_travis
At 600 pediatric deaths per year, COVID is now the #1 natural cause of death for children
https://twitter.com/greg_travis/status/1469419381637664776/photo/1
I'd be amazed if the myocarditis risk from vaccination was anywhere near that.
Did a quick Google and couldn't find any evidence that any stats have been taken on the VI of these folk.
It is late. I will consider this overnight.
Overall the age range is between 25 and 95, and the unvaccinated to vaccinated ratio sits at around two thirds of those with us currently have opted not to get the jab to one third that has.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/health/coronavirus/twice-as-many-unvaccinated-covid-patients-as-vaccinated-in-doncaster-hospital-3478086
Given the number of boosters being given to the vulnerable the proportion of unvaccinated might now be higher.
It will be - in all probability - at least an order of magnitude less dangerous; probably two orders of magnitude.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/952716/s0979-factors-influencing-vaccine-uptake-minority-ethnic-groups.pdf
I mean, really. You are as dim as shit
Will I do the same for the likes of @Dura_Ace?
Will I fuck
There is also correlation re: lower levels of educational attainment, which disproportionately affects minorites, and is a major factor as well with non-college educated Whites.
ADDENDUM - Think some of these same (or similar) dynamic may also be at work in UK demography re: vaccination?
And wonder IF this is also a significant factor with some sections of Jewish communities, in particular Orthodox esp. ultras, with memories of Nazi experiments combined with the educational attainment skew, with Orthodox somewhat lower on that scale, at least with respect to non-religious ed?
The fact remains that UK Labour opposes compulsory vaccination for health care workers but the US Democrats support compulsory vaccination for health care workers.
He or she seemed to be a promising young commenter. But, sigh, no
The UK has had a stellar vaccine uptake, particularly in at risk groups - getting the last few stragglers really isn't worth getting excersised about.
Sunak 3.6
Truss 5.2
Gove 9.4
Hunt 13.5
Javid 26
Tugendhat 27
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.160663234
Certainly you have some impact on PB. Though whether enough to, say, power a toaster, is another question. But it's NOT zero.
Say 95% of Conservative voters have been vaccinated and 85% of Labour voters.
The non-vaccinated are a small minority of each but the Labour minority would be three times 15%:5% as large as that of the Conservatives.
I wonder if people are struggling to accept this because it is so different to the situation in the USA, where anti-vaxxery is so predominant among Trump supporters and where Democrats from Biden downwards are pushing compulsory vaccination.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T5ihqv0jiJrtiuk_xAyGCCDttaO3cBaeLXjuAABIVS4/edit?usp=sharing
EDIT - it's all intertwined, interrelated anyway. As shown by references to Trump voters.
In my experience many folks very passionate about their politics are confirmed non-voters. With the one feeding the other.
Especially since I believe the unvaccinated can be more likely to go into ICU, and more likely to be hospitalised for longer, so admissions alone are not the only figure that matters.
A case that ends up in ICU for a fortnight is much more of an issue than a case that ends up precautionary in hospital for 24-48 hours then discharged.
I wonder if they'll make it? 🤔
The parteh to end all partehs!!!!
About as likely as Leon being calm.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10298323/Vast-majority-Britons-NO-PROTECTION-against-Omicron.html
This is the simplistic nonsense that will lead us into lockdown before Christmas. Because our PM and Cabinet are too thick and poorly educated to understand why this sound byte is wrong.
The name of the pollster is Focaldata (and client Times Radio).
Rather oddly, they compare their results with an unpublished “internal poll” last week. The Conservatives are down 4 points since 2-3 December.
Although they claim to be bona fide (“Focaldata is a registered member of the British Polling Council (BPC) and the Market Research Society (MRS)”) they appear to fail to follow BPC rules, ie no detailed tables have been published.
cf Brexit
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/corona-und-die-afd-zwei-von-drei-ungeimpften-waehlen-rechte-parteien-a-da3157d2-c123-4796-898a-9f6bb35ee918
It also has 15% voting for the "Basis" party. This doesn't seem right, only 1.6% voted Basis, so even if 100% of Basis voters are unvaccinated (likely as it is an antivax party) turnout amongst unvaccinated would have to be half that of vaccinated for this to be possible. Similarly the AfD figure would imply all AfD voters being unvaccinated (very unlikely), or very low turnout among unvaccinated. So I'm not sure what's going on here.
Still, it does show only 3% voted Green, which is the most popular party for 18-25 year olds, which would support your idea.
But wait I hear you say. The US had its head up its arse in Feb-March 2020, allowing for a historic one way trading bet for anyone aware of what was happening in Italy.
So let’s refer to the South African news. Some race issues, a retiring MP, Zuma, cricket, poaching… there’s a story about “trace levels of omicron found in Cape Town waste water” and another about the difficulty of enforcing any covid restrictions on the beach.
Either our country has gone entirely fucking mad. Or the whole lot of you doomcasters should stop wasting your time betting on a bye election and use every scrap of available liquidity to buy deep out the money NYSE puts with expiry about 6-8 weeks from now.
They are causing extra harm to the country. They should pay for it (fiscally).
In Sunak & Javid we have backgrounds who should be capable of absorbing technical info outside their expertise and executing decisions. But they’re greasy pole climbers.
18-25 year olds have the lowest rate of vaccination in Germany
The Greens are the most popular party among 18-25 year olds.
Therefore the unvaccinated lean Green.
No, you need some more evidence.
What that poll also seems to say is that while both the SPD and Greens have hardly any unvaccinated voters to lose, their rightwing coalition partners the FDP do have a few.
Huh?
What’s the point @Quincel ?
Low stakes at rubbish odds? I just don’t get it. A thrilling game of tiddlywinks would create more adrenaline.
I’m glad I had my cancer a couple of decades ago. A friend of mine is going through her year in hell right now and it has brought back a lot of otherwise suppressed memories. In retrospect, I had an easy time of it.
I’ve noticed that friends and acquaintances who normally never mention politics are, unprompted, voicing strong political opinions. The general population seems to be awakening from a restless slumber. They look grumpy.
You on the other hand are talking solely about politics (and are also probably wrong).
However, the oddest aspect of this exchange is that moonshine is responding to his own post with “indeed”!! Did he forget to log out and log in?
These have netted *nothing* in additional revenues relative to no devolution. Scottish incomes have risen more slowly, and income tax base has shrunk, relative to UK
https://twitter.com/pjtheeconomist/status/1469245604928888833?s=21
Makes sense.
- “Despite assertions that there is no reason to pursue these abuse cases following Epstein’s death, the cases do not end just because the alleged ringleader cannot be convicted. Former US Attorney General Bill Barr said, “Any co-conspirators should not rest easy. The victims deserve justice and they will get it.” Many others, including the “powerful men, moguls, media giants” Sternheim spoke of have yet to be charged or tried for their alleged abuses in connection with this case.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ghislaine-maxwell-trial-women-sexual-abuse-b1973287.html?amp
Linlithgow MP Martyn Day tabled the early day motion after major pub chain Greene King confirmed plans to change the name of the town’s bar to more “inclusive” title the Black Hound.
The move has sparked outrage in the town, with a petition calling for the name to remain gathering more than 6,000 signatures in a matter of days and former First Minister Alex Salmond wading into the row."
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-black-bitch-pub-renaming-25636777
NOM 11/8
Con Maj 8/5
Lab Maj 6/1
I don't think just knowing what was happening in Italy would have got you to profitable trades. Working out that the market was going to shit the bed wasn't enough, you also had to know that it was going to unshit it.
The fundamental flaw with all these superficially wise insights into equity market trades is that you have to be right *TWICE*.
Once is skill. Twice is fluke.
This Brexit josh turned out well, didn’t it!
BJ’s obituary: he lacked control.
Even by my own standards as a connoisseur of insomnia, had an abysmal night's sleep. Glad the race isn't today.
This time it is harder. We know that large sectors of the economy are actually pretty robust, so likely to be less affected by a massive sell off. There is also increasing pointers to stagflation both here and the USA. Investing for that prospect is quite tricky.
Yesterday's anaemic GDP figures, and the poor trade figures, with us falling further and further behind equally covid affected benchmarks also make stockpicking difficult. At the moment I am 95% equities but in ones not particularly exposed to UK Consumer spending.
The markets Santa rally seems particularly crazy at a time of Omicron, but as the saying goes, the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.
I had a white month recently and I’ve not slept better since my childhood.
I reckon that 80% of sleep problems are directly attributable to alcohol and other intoxicants. I can heartily recommend a thorough detox. Christmas is an excellent time to start: all that faux joviality just makes the Jan/Feb dip even worse.
I wouldn't be suprised if, by election day, they are down to something like 4/1. And that will be the time to back the tories; not now.
Tory minister, 51, 'repeatedly raped and abused his wife'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10296911/Tory-minister-51-repeatedly-raped-abused-wife-nearly-decade-judge-finds.html?ito=native_share_article-masthead
Off topic: this is a bizarre story:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10297833/amp/Jen-Psaki-says-rushed-judgment-Jussie-Smollett-quotes-Trump.html
Amusing that the White House’s defence is “Trump signalled his virtue, too!”