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  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,916
    hunchman said:

    Does anyone know when we're getting our next referendum poll out? Its nice not to get night after night of polls like we had before the General Election last May, too many cooks spoil the broth!

    Nah. I want polls every hour... :)
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    SeanT said:

    Dreadful migrant shite on the BBC. Fuck the Calais migrants. I'd happily see them imprisoned, now. Nasty and aggressive. Fuck them.

    I have to say whenever I have dug underneath while chatting to people about it, it is quite rare to come across the "we need to let these people in" attitude. My immediate friendship circle comprises of many people who share my perspective of the world, its the way of things for many of us, so they can be discounted, start moving away from that to wider group, to people i interact with at work etc, people who most certainly do not share my political viewpoint, and arent really politically engaged, their attitude seems to be fairly hostile.

    The middle class leftie corbynites though, and i know a few, would take them all, and as many who could get here.

    A good litmus test, is to ask how they feel about Cameron taking 20,000 over five years from camps around syria. Leftie dingbat = a drop in the ocean, we should be taking hundreds of thousands now directly from Greece and allow all from Calais.
    Ordinary man in the street = shouldnt we be looking after our own lot, 20,000 is far too many.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 64,759

    Imagine if this stuff is going to be on all the front pages and on out TV screens every day for the next FOUR MONTHS

    Lords preserve us, what sins did we commit to suffer that? I'd almost prefer to accept a Remain win if it meant we could get it over with even sooner, I don't think I've ever had enthusiasm for politics drained from me as fast as on this issue. I suppose that's due to it being a continual low level event at all other times.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited February 2016

    Imagine if this stuff is going to be on all the front pages and on out TV screens every day for the next FOUR MONTHS, then the Remain side will lose - no question.

    I really don't think so. It's not enough.

    With the economy too, and a stellar performance from Boris, yes. Maybe. Perhaps.
    Are leave suggesting that if we are out we can close our eyes to this migrant crisis and if not how would they handle the problem
    Also worth noting that what is in the news today is Macedonian border guards tear gassing people trying to leave the EU and the Schengen area. Also the French riot police clearing the camp and fingerprinting the migrants.

    After all haven't kippers been calling for the EU to get tough on the migrants? There's no pleasing some people.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    Imagine if this stuff is going to be on all the front pages and on out TV screens every day for the next FOUR MONTHS, then the Remain side will lose - no question.

    I really don't think so. It's not enough.

    With the economy too, and a stellar performance from Boris, yes. Maybe. Perhaps.
    Agreed, it needs everything to fall into place for leave to win - migration crisis to get worse, Euro to sink further against USD on sovereign debt worries reignited in the periphery at least, and the leave campaign to offer a positive vision of life outside the EU. Something has to be seriously wrong for the British electorate to vote different compared to the status quo - electoral history over the past 35 years when 1997 (18 year old government way past its sell by date) and 2010 after the 2008 crisis and even then they didn't 'clearly' throw the Brown government out, should tell anyone that the leave campaign should be under no illusions about the size of the task. Even if the polls show leave leading 55/45 at the start of June on events against the remain narrative manifesting themselves over the next 3 months, I won't be regarding it as a done deal that the country will vote leave when it comes to it on the 23rd June.

    I'm hoping it will turn into a referendum on Cameron's leadership, and that will obviously put Labour, SNP and the LibDems in a tricky position, but I rather think the remain camp is too broad for that to happen realistically.....and those canny pro-independence Scots to work out that the best way to get a 2nd independence referendum is to vote leave.....if they think its safe to do so given Scotland will vote to remain overall....or is that too calculating even for a wee canny Scot?!
  • Dear me, the ludicrous groupthink continues.

    No, guys. If Remain wins, there will be no backlash, life will continue quite happily (as it has for most of the last 40 years we've been members of the EEC/EC/EU), and Cameron will be quite rightly seen as a great PM. The usual suspects will keep moaning, of course, and bitching about lies and non-existent unravelling of the deal, but no-one will take any more notice of them than they did of their Hague-era predecessors.

    If Leave wins, then the recriminations will happen, and very nasty they will be. Nothing could be more obvious, given the massive split between the pro- and anti-EEA option factions, and the inevitably rocky ride of the transition.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,878
    Fenster said:

    Just been reading a great thread on Facebook! Loads of left wing headers ranting that the BBC shoukd be shutdown for being too right wing. One contributor said, without a hint of irony "I get my news from RT now, because the BBC is just a government mouthpiece"...

    I love people.

    The revelations of social media are the best argument against the universal adult franchise.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited February 2016

    Can anyone doubt Osborne is running to follow Cameron, if they're going to purge the associations for backing Johnson??

    You do wonder if Cameron & Osborne actually thinks this all through beyond 1 or 2 moves. They seem incapable of anticipating the reactions inside their own party to each move or change that is announced. It is a peculiar form of blindness.

    This months great new idea is have a review of the party's organisation after losing 100,000+ members since Cameron came in. The solution is re-structure it to p*** off even more members and activists all lead by the toxic Party Chairman Feldman. A man who's party ratings are scraping the bottom of the barrel and is one of the lowest regarded Chairmen probably since WW2.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    perdix said:

    Front of the telegraph tomorrow, Cull of the Tory grassroots - what ever that means

    There will be no cull. Cons HQ is looking for ways to help associations work with each other for maximum effectiveness. But there will be disagreements

    Typical Daily Mail bullshit.. if the daily mail told us all they knew .. i might have some sympathy... but stuff is hushed up all the time...
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    Imagine if this stuff is going to be on all the front pages and on out TV screens every day for the next FOUR MONTHS, then the Remain side will lose - no question.

    I really don't think so. It's not enough.

    With the economy too, and a stellar performance from Boris, yes. Maybe. Perhaps.
    Are leave suggesting that if we are out we can close our eyes to this migrant crisis and if not how would they handle the problem
    Also worth noting that what is in the news today is Macedonian border guards tear gassing people trying to leave the EU and the Schengen area. Also the French riot police clearing the camp and fingerprinting the migrants.

    After all haven't kippers been calling for the EU to get tough on the migrants? There's no pleasing some people.
    The Schengen area right now is a pretty meaningless concept - it has to all intents and purposes COLLAPSED. Barbed wire fences were not meant to be reality across the EU just 26 and a bit years on from the fall of the Berlin Wall. Lets refer to it as the former Schengen area, just as we'll be referring to the FORMER eurozone area and the FORMER EU once the domino effect has left its mark in time.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 32,492
    hunchman said:

    Imagine if this stuff is going to be on all the front pages and on out TV screens every day for the next FOUR MONTHS, then the Remain side will lose - no question.

    I really don't think so. It's not enough.

    With the economy too, and a stellar performance from Boris, yes. Maybe. Perhaps.
    Agreed, it needs everything to fall into place for leave to win - migration crisis to get worse, Euro to sink further against USD on sovereign debt worries reignited in the periphery at least, and the leave campaign to offer a positive vision of life outside the EU. Something has to be seriously wrong for the British electorate to vote different compared to the status quo - electoral history over the past 35 years when 1997 (18 year old government way past its sell by date) and 2010 after the 2008 crisis and even then they didn't 'clearly' throw the Brown government out, should tell anyone that the leave campaign should be under no illusions about the size of the task. Even if the polls show leave leading 55/45 at the start of June on events against the remain narrative manifesting themselves over the next 3 months, I won't be regarding it as a done deal that the country will vote leave when it comes to it on the 23rd June.

    I'm hoping it will turn into a referendum on Cameron's leadership, and that will obviously put Labour, SNP and the LibDems in a tricky position, but I rather think the remain camp is too broad for that to happen realistically.....and those canny pro-independence Scots to work out that the best way to get a 2nd independence referendum is to vote leave.....if they think its safe to do so given Scotland will vote to remain overall....or is that too calculating even for a wee canny Scot?!
    will do for me , I am Leave
  • isamisam Posts: 35,516
    Typical Daily Mail bullshit in the Daily Telegraph
  • hunchman said:

    Imagine if this stuff is going to be on all the front pages and on out TV screens every day for the next FOUR MONTHS, then the Remain side will lose - no question.

    I really don't think so. It's not enough.

    With the economy too, and a stellar performance from Boris, yes. Maybe. Perhaps.
    Are leave suggesting that if we are out we can close our eyes to this migrant crisis and if not how would they handle the problem
    Also worth noting that what is in the news today is Macedonian border guards tear gassing people trying to leave the EU and the Schengen area. Also the French riot police clearing the camp and fingerprinting the migrants.

    After all haven't kippers been calling for the EU to get tough on the migrants? There's no pleasing some people.
    The Schengen area right now is a pretty meaningless concept - it has to all intents and purposes COLLAPSED. Barbed wire fences were not meant to be reality across the EU just 26 and a bit years on from the fall of the Berlin Wall. Lets refer to it as the former Schengen area, just as we'll be referring to the FORMER eurozone area and the FORMER EU once the domino effect has left its mark in time.
    Its ok the REMAIN camp say we will be quite safe from this so long as we stick inside the EU.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,916
    Tim_B said:

    viewcode said:

    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking
    George Kennedy, star of Cool Hand Luke and Naked Gun, dies aged 91 - grandson announces http://bbc.in/21xku5w

    Does anybody remember Joe Patroni, the character he played in the entertaining-but-wildly-implausible Airport series? The makers took increasingly strained steps to keep him in the movies, ending up with him as a Concorde co-pilot opposite Alain Delon and David Warner, which was...a bit weird. Odd trivia: the Concorde aircraft they used for the non-model shots in "Airport 79/80" was the same one that crashed outside Paris.

    For reasons that are not clear to me, I have the box set of all the Airport movies, plus the soundtrack LP to the first one. One track is called 'Joe Patroni - plane or plow?'

    I have already got the Police Squad dvd (the TV series that was the genesis for Naked Gun) and the Naked Gun dvds piled ready to watch. I'll pull the Airport movies too.
    The Airport series is a mixed bunch. The first one is a serious melodrama, '75 is a Charlton Heston teethgritfest (and so great!), '77 is a proper disaster movie, '79/80 is so over-the-top it's brilliant.

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    isam said:

    Typical Daily Mail bullshit in the Daily Telegraph

    I was going to mention that ;-)

    Toby Young ‏@toadmeister
    .@jeremycorbyn on #theagenda says that Cameron's deal is "legally questionable". Yet he's for staying in the EU. Not helping. #Brexit
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I went to see Rubio's event today. Rubio is trying to be like Trump, criticizing Trump's hands - they're small, and you know what that means.

    When Trump does it, it's amusing. When Rubio does it, it's not.

    Have the Republicans really fallen this far?

    I'm still undecided about who to vote for tomorrow. Cruz has all the dirty tricks his campaign pulled, Rubio is 20 points behind in his home state, and then there's Trump. I like Kasich but that's not going to happen. Tough choice. Jim Gilmore where art thou?
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    Dear me, the ludicrous groupthink continues.

    No, guys. If Remain wins, there will be no backlash, life will continue quite happily (as it has for most of the last 40 years we've been members of the EEC/EC/EU), and Cameron will be quite rightly seen as a great PM. The usual suspects will keep moaning, of course, and bitching about lies and non-existent unravelling of the deal, but no-one will take any more notice of them than they did of their Hague-era predecessors.

    If Leave wins, then the recriminations will happen, and very nasty they will be. Nothing could be more obvious, given the massive split between the pro- and anti-EEA option factions, and the inevitably rocky ride of the transition.

    So the vote remain side is harmoniously united is it? Lets see about that one. Cameron and Osborne argue that the 'deal' about a reformed EU guards against superstate intrusion etc, Corbyn and the SNP argue its vital for workers rights / social legislation / minimum standards and the like. Sturgeon cannily ruled out being on the same platform as Cameron today, so the remain camp are just as internally divided as the leave camp. Lets not have any lectures about how united one camp is compared to the other. I don't deny the leave side is divided, but to say remain is united is frankly ludicrous.

    And I don't think a lot of EU citizens currently would share your prognosis that life is continuing quite happily right now thankyou very much! Have you sampled the 60% of youth unemployed in Greece, those raped in Cologne or those protesting against immigration across the EU to reach your assertion?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    hunchman said:

    Imagine if this stuff is going to be on all the front pages and on out TV screens every day for the next FOUR MONTHS, then the Remain side will lose - no question.

    I really don't think so. It's not enough.

    With the economy too, and a stellar performance from Boris, yes. Maybe. Perhaps.
    Are leave suggesting that if we are out we can close our eyes to this migrant crisis and if not how would they handle the problem
    Also worth noting that what is in the news today is Macedonian border guards tear gassing people trying to leave the EU and the Schengen area. Also the French riot police clearing the camp and fingerprinting the migrants.

    After all haven't kippers been calling for the EU to get tough on the migrants? There's no pleasing some people.
    The Schengen area right now is a pretty meaningless concept - it has to all intents and purposes COLLAPSED. Barbed wire fences were not meant to be reality across the EU just 26 and a bit years on from the fall of the Berlin Wall. Lets refer to it as the former Schengen area, just as we'll be referring to the FORMER eurozone area and the FORMER EU once the domino effect has left its mark in time.
    I don't think that Schengen or the Eurozone are about to break apart, but if you assume that they are, then surely that is the sort of EU reform that Eurosceptics want?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 84,095
    Tim_B said:

    I went to see Rubio's event today. Rubio is trying to be like Trump, criticizing Trump's hands - they're small, and you know what that means.

    When Trump does it, it's amusing. When Rubio does it, it's not.

    Have the Republicans really fallen this far?

    I'm still undecided about who to vote for tomorrow. Cruz has all the dirty tricks his campaign pulled, Rubio is 20 points behind in his home state, and then there's Trump. I like Kasich but that's not going to happen. Tough choice. Jim Gilmore where art thou?

    Dropped out over a fortnight ago
    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/former-virginia-gov-jim-gilmore-suspends-presidential-campaign-n517886
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    malcolmg said:

    hunchman said:

    Imagine if this stuff is going to be on all the front pages and on out TV screens every day for the next FOUR MONTHS, then the Remain side will lose - no question.

    I really don't think so. It's not enough.

    With the economy too, and a stellar performance from Boris, yes. Maybe. Perhaps.
    Agreed, it needs everything to fall into place for leave to win - migration crisis to get worse, Euro to sink further against USD on sovereign debt worries reignited in the periphery at least, and the leave campaign to offer a positive vision of life outside the EU. Something has to be seriously wrong for the British electorate to vote different compared to the status quo - electoral history over the past 35 years when 1997 (18 year old government way past its sell by date) and 2010 after the 2008 crisis and even then they didn't 'clearly' throw the Brown government out, should tell anyone that the leave campaign should be under no illusions about the size of the task. Even if the polls show leave leading 55/45 at the start of June on events against the remain narrative manifesting themselves over the next 3 months, I won't be regarding it as a done deal that the country will vote leave when it comes to it on the 23rd June.

    I'm hoping it will turn into a referendum on Cameron's leadership, and that will obviously put Labour, SNP and the LibDems in a tricky position, but I rather think the remain camp is too broad for that to happen realistically.....and those canny pro-independence Scots to work out that the best way to get a 2nd independence referendum is to vote leave.....if they think its safe to do so given Scotland will vote to remain overall....or is that too calculating even for a wee canny Scot?!
    will do for me , I am Leave
    How do you think the SNP vote is going to split between remain / leave? I saw yesterday from the YouGov poll that Banff and Buchan is one of the most eurosceptic places in the whole of the UK, hardly surprising in view of the decimation of the fishing industry, which is quite ironic given it's in Alex Salmond's backyard.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    I went to see Rubio's event today. Rubio is trying to be like Trump, criticizing Trump's hands - they're small, and you know what that means.

    When Trump does it, it's amusing. When Rubio does it, it's not.

    Have the Republicans really fallen this far?

    I'm still undecided about who to vote for tomorrow. Cruz has all the dirty tricks his campaign pulled, Rubio is 20 points behind in his home state, and then there's Trump. I like Kasich but that's not going to happen. Tough choice. Jim Gilmore where art thou?

    Dropped out over a fortnight ago
    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/former-virginia-gov-jim-gilmore-suspends-presidential-campaign-n517886
    Yes I know that dufus! Hence the comment.
  • The PB EU Referendum competition currently has 302 entries, including a number of duplicates.
    What's surprising is that across the three major parties, plus the 27% who refused to disclose their affiliation, there is a virtual identical view of the likely turnout, ranging by just 1.2% between 62.9% - 64.1%. Potentially useful information for the likes of Wm. Hill, etc when they get around to opening a book on the turnout.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited February 2016

    isam said:

    Typical Daily Mail bullshit in the Daily Telegraph

    I was going to mention that ;-)

    Toby Young ‏@toadmeister
    .@jeremycorbyn on #theagenda says that Cameron's deal is "legally questionable". Yet he's for staying in the EU. Not helping. #Brexit
    Look at the Daily Mail headline.. wifi is crap here relying on poor connection.. it says ...Daily Mail victory for your right to know.. that is what I was referring to

    http://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/704429979879280640/photo/1
  • TomTom Posts: 273

    chestnut said:

    FPT

    Oh and doesn't Havering have a Tory MP too? While Central London's Labour areas are europhile while Outer London's more Tory areas are more eurosceptic.

    Look at the South West too. Labour's best area in the South West is Bristol, the only area in the South West to be Europhile.

    Outside of Bristol, Somerset and North Somerset are very Eurosceptic - and unanimously Tory.

    Plymouth is a Tory city compared to Bristol, and guess what it's a Eurosceptic one.

    Havering is full of people who would have lived in the East End and voted Labour in the 1970s, but who find the likes of Livingstone and Corbyn completely repellent.

    Labour Left's idea of 'progress' and 'fairness' is completely toxic to them, paying far too little regard to notions of family, hard work and contribution. They are also proud of the country they come from and what their families did to build and protect it.
    It wasn't that long ago when Havering and Hillingdon were Labour inclined boroughs whilst Enfield, Harrow, Merton and Redbridge were safe Conservative:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_local_elections,_1986

    There's been lots of demographic and political change in outer London since then.

    Labour hasn't controlled havering for over 40 years and only for 3 years in its history. Residents parties have been significant there. Other than 97 Romford and upminster have both been safe Tory seats since the 70s. Agree on the rest.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,878
    Richard N:

    Party membership form is currently on my desk, not filled in.

    Any more silly japes from Camo and Osbo and I won't be. I know my £150 a year isn't much, but I can't really explain just how disappointed I am at the moment; no need to hail this deal as the new messiah, no need to agree to a weak and possibly unenforceable agreement so easily, no need to alter the constituency associations.

    I have been one of Camo's biggest cheerleaders over the years - I'm currently hoping they are nearing the 50 letters to the '22 chairman; Someone needs to challenge Cameron for the good of the party.
  • hunchman said:

    And I don't think a lot of EU citizens currently would share your prognosis that life is continuing quite happily right now thankyou very much! Have you sampled the 60% of youth unemployed in Greece, those raped in Cologne or those protesting against immigration across the EU to reach your assertion?

    This is the kind of ludicrous hysteria which is deceiving people here.

    About two seconds thought shows that those have got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether the UK should remain in the EU or not, any more than the Rotherham child abuse scandal or the collapse of the Didcot power station building has.

    We've seen this sort of hysteria many times before - Coulson, Peter Cruddas, opinion polls showing Ed Miliband destined for victory, Gordon Brown about to thrown out, Gillian Duffy, etc etc etc - too many to mention.

    Calm down dears.
  • Tim_B said:

    I went to see Rubio's event today. Rubio is trying to be like Trump, criticizing Trump's hands - they're small, and you know what that means.

    When Trump does it, it's amusing. When Rubio does it, it's not.

    Have the Republicans really fallen this far?

    I'm still undecided about who to vote for tomorrow. Cruz has all the dirty tricks his campaign pulled, Rubio is 20 points behind in his home state, and then there's Trump. I like Kasich but that's not going to happen. Tough choice. Jim Gilmore where art thou?

    Why is Kasich still in the race? Presumably just spending the money folk have showered him with.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    hunchman said:

    Imagine if this stuff is going to be on all the front pages and on out TV screens every day for the next FOUR MONTHS, then the Remain side will lose - no question.

    I really don't think so. It's not enough.

    With the economy too, and a stellar performance from Boris, yes. Maybe. Perhaps.
    Are leave suggesting that if we are out we can close our eyes to this migrant crisis and if not how would they handle the problem
    Also worth noting that what is in the news today is Macedonian border guards tear gassing people trying to leave the EU and the Schengen area. Also the French riot police clearing the camp and fingerprinting the migrants.

    After all haven't kippers been calling for the EU to get tough on the migrants? There's no pleasing some people.
    The Schengen area right now is a pretty meaningless concept - it has to all intents and purposes COLLAPSED. Barbed wire fences were not meant to be reality across the EU just 26 and a bit years on from the fall of the Berlin Wall. Lets refer to it as the former Schengen area, just as we'll be referring to the FORMER eurozone area and the FORMER EU once the domino effect has left its mark in time.
    I don't think that Schengen or the Eurozone are about to break apart, but if you assume that they are, then surely that is the sort of EU reform that Eurosceptics want?
    The point is that the Eurozone is incapable of reform, and the civil servants in Brussels care more about protecting their own jobs and cushy lifestyle than the general well being of the citizens of the EU and eurozone. If they were going to consolidate the debts of the Eurozone states then that would have been done pretty much at the outset of the Euro in 1999, when there was a vague positive feeling about the EU project. Do you seriously believe Angela Merkel is going to say now that we'll consolidate German and Greek debt ..... and all other member states sovereign debt?! There would be riots on the streets of Berlin quicker than you could click your fingers! You can go back throughout economic history and currency areas where there is not one common debt across the whole common currency area do not last very long relatively speaking.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    isam said:

    Typical Daily Mail bullshit in the Daily Telegraph

    I was going to mention that ;-)

    Toby Young ‏@toadmeister
    .@jeremycorbyn on #theagenda says that Cameron's deal is "legally questionable". Yet he's for staying in the EU. Not helping. #Brexit
    Look at the Daily Mail headline.. wifi is crap here relying on poor connection.. it says ...Daily Mail victory for your right to know.. that is what I was referring to

    http://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/704429979879280640/photo/1
    Sorry - Glanced past the Daily mail front ;-)
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    The PB EU Referendum competition currently has 302 entries, including a number of duplicates.
    What's surprising is that across the three major parties, plus the 27% who refused to disclose their affiliation, there is a virtual identical view of the likely turnout, ranging by just 1.2% between 62.9% - 64.1%. Potentially useful information for the likes of Wm. Hill, etc when they get around to opening a book on the turnout.

    Herding around the current 5/6 turnout bets on offer at PaddyPower / Ladbrokes me thinks!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 28,426
    edited February 2016
    Mortimer said:

    Richard N:

    Party membership form is currently on my desk, not filled in.

    Any more silly japes from Camo and Osbo and I won't be. I know my £150 a year isn't much, but I can't really explain just how disappointed I am at the moment; no need to hail this deal as the new messiah, no need to agree to a weak and possibly unenforceable agreement so easily, no need to alter the constituency associations.

    I have been one of Camo's biggest cheerleaders over the years - I'm currently hoping they are nearing the 50 letters to the '22 chairman; Someone needs to challenge Cameron for the good of the party.

    Most of the 'silly japes' are just journalists making stories out of gossip.

    David Cameron has given his opponents in the party the referendum they claimed they wanted - exactly as he promised.

    Rather than whingeing about it being unfair, they should bloody well make the case for the alternative, which they are spectacularly failing to do. That's hardly Cameron's fault.
  • I see Jeremy Corbyn has refused to share a pro-Remain platform with David Cameron because he disagrees with him on vision for EU. Now think of all the people Jezza has shared platforms with. What a total cock.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 84,095
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    I went to see Rubio's event today. Rubio is trying to be like Trump, criticizing Trump's hands - they're small, and you know what that means.

    When Trump does it, it's amusing. When Rubio does it, it's not.

    Have the Republicans really fallen this far?

    I'm still undecided about who to vote for tomorrow. Cruz has all the dirty tricks his campaign pulled, Rubio is 20 points behind in his home state, and then there's Trump. I like Kasich but that's not going to happen. Tough choice. Jim Gilmore where art thou?

    Dropped out over a fortnight ago
    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/former-virginia-gov-jim-gilmore-suspends-presidential-campaign-n517886
    Yes I know that dufus! Hence the comment.
    Well given most people probably did not even know he was running in the first place, thought best to clarify!
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    I don't know if you have come across Conquest's Law, propounded by the Anglo-American poet and historian Robert Conquest:

    "In any large organisation, there are people in senior positions who behave as if they were in the pay of that organisation's worst enemies, without necessarily being so."

    This might explain what is happening in all the political parties...
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    I see Jeremy Corbyn has refused to share a pro-Remain platform with David Cameron because he disagrees with him on vision for EU. Now think of all the people Jezza has shared platforms with. What a total cock.

    The Twittersphere are already on it.

    WarGit ‏@WarGit
    Corbyn won't share a platform with: Cameron
    Corbyn will share a platform with: Hamas, Hizballah, IRA, anti-semites, holocaust deniers[1/352]
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    hunchman said:

    And I don't think a lot of EU citizens currently would share your prognosis that life is continuing quite happily right now thankyou very much! Have you sampled the 60% of youth unemployed in Greece, those raped in Cologne or those protesting against immigration across the EU to reach your assertion?

    This is the kind of ludicrous hysteria which is deceiving people here.

    About two seconds thought shows that those have got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether the UK should remain in the EU or not, any more than the Rotherham child abuse scandal or the collapse of the Didcot power station building has.

    We've seen this sort of hysteria many times before - Coulson, Peter Cruddas, opinion polls showing Ed Miliband destined for victory, Gordon Brown about to thrown out, Gillian Duffy, etc etc etc - too many to mention.

    Calm down dears.
    60% youth unemployment in Greece destroys the argument that remain love to use that 3 million jobs supposedly depend on the EU, have you tried telling the 40% lucky enough there to have a job that it somehow depends on the EU? Of course you haven't! Think how many jobs could be created without having to pay £11bn net to the EU each year in terms of a lower tax burden on the UK economy as a result.

    And that the current migration crisis has nothing to do with common EU policy in this area? Pull the other one!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,878

    Mortimer said:

    Richard N:

    Party membership form is currently on my desk, not filled in.

    Any more silly japes from Camo and Osbo and I won't be. I know my £150 a year isn't much, but I can't really explain just how disappointed I am at the moment; no need to hail this deal as the new messiah, no need to agree to a weak and possibly unenforceable agreement so easily, no need to alter the constituency associations.

    I have been one of Camo's biggest cheerleaders over the years - I'm currently hoping they are nearing the 50 letters to the '22 chairman; Someone needs to challenge Cameron for the good of the party.

    Most of the 'silly japes' are just journalists making stories out of gossip.

    David Cameron has given his opponents in the party the referendum they claimed they wanted - exactly as he promised.

    Rather than whingeing about it being unfair, they should bloody well make the case for the alternative, which they are spectacularly failing to do. That's hardly Cameron's fault.
    Must admit I expected better of you Richard.

    Losing members (and especially activists) is the sure fire way to ensure the death of a party.

    And you dismiss it because, because, well Cameron is great and everyone else is dreadful?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited February 2016
    viewcode said:

    @RodCrosby

    Thank you for the pollyvote link you gave in previous thread. Most useful.

    You're very welcome.

    For poll-based forecasts, keep an eye on:-

    Princeton Election Consortium
    Votamatic
    FiveThirtyEight

    probably in that order...
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    I went to see Rubio's event today. Rubio is trying to be like Trump, criticizing Trump's hands - they're small, and you know what that means.

    When Trump does it, it's amusing. When Rubio does it, it's not.

    Have the Republicans really fallen this far?

    I'm still undecided about who to vote for tomorrow. Cruz has all the dirty tricks his campaign pulled, Rubio is 20 points behind in his home state, and then there's Trump. I like Kasich but that's not going to happen. Tough choice. Jim Gilmore where art thou?

    Why is Kasich still in the race? Presumably just spending the money folk have showered him with.
    He's trying to hang on until Ohio on 3/15 when primaries become winner take all.
  • Mortimer said:

    Richard N:

    Party membership form is currently on my desk, not filled in.

    Any more silly japes from Camo and Osbo and I won't be. I know my £150 a year isn't much, but I can't really explain just how disappointed I am at the moment; no need to hail this deal as the new messiah, no need to agree to a weak and possibly unenforceable agreement so easily, no need to alter the constituency associations.

    I have been one of Camo's biggest cheerleaders over the years - I'm currently hoping they are nearing the 50 letters to the '22 chairman; Someone needs to challenge Cameron for the good of the party.

    Most of the 'silly japes' are just journalists making stories out of gossip.

    David Cameron has given his opponents in the party the referendum they claimed they wanted - exactly as he promised.

    Rather than whingeing about it being unfair, they should bloody well make the case for the alternative, which they are spectacularly failing to do. That's hardly Cameron's fault.
    Correct. And to think that Tories were expressing amazement at the Labour membership electing Corbyn.
    The trouble with people in blinkers is they have tunnel vision.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    On the eve of the S.E.C. Primary, aka Super Tuesday, good news and bad news for Hillary. This evening is the last of court ordered releases of her emails.

    One item of potential bad news for her is that the FBI have recovered most of the deleted emails from her server.

    Another bad news item is that she is likely to be deposed, along with Atkinson and Abedin among others, in the Judicial Watch FOIA suit. So regardless of what the FBI does, the email scandal will linger past the election.

    A curious item is that AG Loretta Lynch will be interviewed about the Clinton email scandal on Fox News this evening. I doubt she'll say more than the usual - FBI is non-political, they will take their time, what the public wants is a thorough investigation etc. All reassuring but not giving us any new info. We know that FBI Director Comey is getting daily updates on the progress of the investigation, and Lynch is not.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Trump just announced that he will hold a press conference - not a speech - tomorrow evening at 9pm from Florida.

    Can the man manipulate the media or what?
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,603
    edited February 2016
    Labour shortlist for Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough

    Cllr Jayne Dunn
    Cllr Gill Furniss
    Jayne Lim

    Furniss is the widow of the deceased MP.

    Men were allowed to apply and longlist was 5 men and 5 women.
  • Mortimer said:

    Richard N:

    Party membership form is currently on my desk, not filled in.

    Any more silly japes from Camo and Osbo and I won't be. I know my £150 a year isn't much, but I can't really explain just how disappointed I am at the moment; no need to hail this deal as the new messiah, no need to agree to a weak and possibly unenforceable agreement so easily, no need to alter the constituency associations.

    I have been one of Camo's biggest cheerleaders over the years - I'm currently hoping they are nearing the 50 letters to the '22 chairman; Someone needs to challenge Cameron for the good of the party.

    I agree with virtually all you say, with one significant exception - wild horses wouldn't persuade me to part with a penny piece right now, to a party whose total performance over the past 10 months since the GE has been nothing short of dismal.
  • Mortimer said:

    Must admit I expected better of you Richard.

    Losing members (and especially activists) is the sure fire way to ensure the death of a party.

    And you dismiss it because, because, well Cameron is great and everyone else is dreadful?

    Divisions over Europe are not new. Cameron has done a quite exceptionally good job, over a period of ten years, in keeping the party together. The decision will be made by voters, not by him. No-one is suggesting that people like Gove and Hannan are 'dreadful' - quite the opposite. People should calm down, accept that these divisions exist, and argue their case if they disagree with Cameron.

    What's the problem with that?
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    Labour shortlist for Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough

    Cllr Jayne Dunn
    Cllr Gill Furniss
    Jayne Lim

    Furniss is the widow of the deceased MP.

    Men were allowed to apply and longlist was 5 men and 5 women.

    Do you think they will move the writ for the first Thursday in May to ensure the Labour vote turns out in numbers? Would have thought that is the most likely date for it.

    Good night all, friend and foe alike.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Labour shortlist for Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough

    Cllr Jayne Dunn
    Cllr Gill Furniss
    Jayne Lim

    Furniss is the widow of the deceased MP.

    Men were allowed to apply and longlist was 5 men and 5 women.

    Very decent of Labour to allow men to apply.

  • chestnut said:

    Labour shortlist for Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough

    Cllr Jayne Dunn
    Cllr Gill Furniss
    Jayne Lim

    Furniss is the widow of the deceased MP.

    Men were allowed to apply and longlist was 5 men and 5 women.

    Very decent of Labour to allow men to apply.

    Don't you mean "apply", as in complete the necessary forms?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,878

    Mortimer said:

    Must admit I expected better of you Richard.

    Losing members (and especially activists) is the sure fire way to ensure the death of a party.

    And you dismiss it because, because, well Cameron is great and everyone else is dreadful?

    Divisions over Europe are not new. Cameron has done a quite exceptionally good job, over a period of ten years, in keeping the party together. The decision will be made by voters, not by him. No-one is suggesting that people like Gove and Hannan are 'dreadful' - quite the opposite. People should calm down, accept that these divisions exist, and argue their case if they disagree with Cameron.

    What's the problem with that?
    Thing is Richard, I'm not sure he has. The activist support I saw last May was generally m/c, small business man and One Nationer. I'd say about 80% eurosceptic. And we've already lost a good deal of activists to UKIP, and locally, to independent splinter groups.

    I really, really worry about the future if it is a Corporatist Europhile party that pisses off it's activists. It sounds rather too much like the Lib Dems for my liking.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 28,426
    edited February 2016
    The Irish count grinds on: independent Kevin 'Boxer' Moran has won the second seat in Longford-Westmeath (as expected). Looks like FG might win both of the remaining two, which would take them up to 51.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/2016/0229/771477-election-count-blog-day-three/
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Tim_B said:

    Trump just announced that he will hold a press conference - not a speech - tomorrow evening at 9pm from Florida.

    Can the man manipulate the media or what?

    It could be an endorsement by Florida governor Rick Scott.
    He also just got this endorsement:

    The HillVerified account ‏@thehill 5m5 minutes ago
    JUST IN: NASCAR CEO and race car drivers endorse Trump http://hill.cm/srSJ8iU
  • Mortimer said:

    Thing is Richard, I'm not sure he has. The activist support I saw last May was generally m/c, small business man and One Nationer. I'd say about 80% eurosceptic. And we've already lost a good deal of activists to UKIP, and locally, to independent splinter groups.

    I really, really worry about the future if it is a Corporatist Europhile party that pisses off it's activists. It sounds rather too much like the Lib Dems for my liking.

    The referendum was always going to strain the party's unity. No way to avoid that, I think. Hopefully it will be a temporary strain.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,878

    Mortimer said:

    Thing is Richard, I'm not sure he has. The activist support I saw last May was generally m/c, small business man and One Nationer. I'd say about 80% eurosceptic. And we've already lost a good deal of activists to UKIP, and locally, to independent splinter groups.

    I really, really worry about the future if it is a Corporatist Europhile party that pisses off it's activists. It sounds rather too much like the Lib Dems for my liking.

    The referendum was always going to strain the party's unity. No way to avoid that, I think. Hopefully it will be a temporary strain.
    It is not just the referendum, and Europe is just one reason why the party is weakening.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453
    edited February 2016
    Listening to the fivethirtyeight podcast. They sound like they're going to vote for Hillary to me.
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Thing is Richard, I'm not sure he has. The activist support I saw last May was generally m/c, small business man and One Nationer. I'd say about 80% eurosceptic. And we've already lost a good deal of activists to UKIP, and locally, to independent splinter groups.

    I really, really worry about the future if it is a Corporatist Europhile party that pisses off it's activists. It sounds rather too much like the Lib Dems for my liking.

    The referendum was always going to strain the party's unity. No way to avoid that, I think. Hopefully it will be a temporary strain.
    It is not just the referendum, and Europe is just one reason why the party is weakening.
    People worked jolly hard last May.

    In any case, there will be a new leader sometime in the not too distant future, whatever happens. Cameron has done a whole decade.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Listening to the fivethirtyeight podcast. They sound like they're going to vote for Hillary to me.

    They are democrats, that's why they got the GOP race so wrong, they look at things from the democratic perspective so their judgement became clouded.

    There is a reason why I exclude partisans from polls and analysis of polls.
    Goodnight.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
    And all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by,
    And the wheel's kick, and the wind's song, and the white sails shaking,
    And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453
    Some big money stepping in at low odds on the Democrat race.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited March 2016
    RodCrosby said:

    I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
    And all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by,
    And the wheel's kick, and the wind's song, and the white sails shaking,
    And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking...
    Nice poem to fit this sad story Mr Crosby.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RodCrosby said:

    I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
    And all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by,
    And the wheel's kick, and the wind's song, and the white sails shaking,
    And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking...
    It sounds as if twenty years of sailing the world yet couldn't escape his demons.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Pulpstar said:

    Some big money stepping in at low odds on the Democrat race.

    Well the primary races will be over soon.
    Also 2nd Congressman endorsing Trump today:

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/donald-trump-endorsement-tom-marino-220002

    The KKK controversy hasn't stopped republican elected officials starting to coalesce around Trump.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    RodCrosby said:

    I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
    And all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by,
    And the wheel's kick, and the wind's song, and the white sails shaking,
    And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking...
    Nice poem to fit this story Mr Crosby.
    I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide,
    Is a wild call, and a clear call that may not be denied.
    And all I ask is a windy day, with the white clouds flying,
    And the flung spray, and the blown spume, and the seagulls crying.

    I must go down to the seas again, to the vagrant, gypsy life,
    To the gull's way, and the whale's way, where the wind's like a whetted knife.
    And all I ask is a merry yarn with a laughing fellow-rover,
    And quiet sleep, and a sweet dream, when the long trick's over.

    [Masefield, Sea Fever. I read it at my Dad's funeral]
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453
    @RodCrosby Your GOP spreadsheet seems to be broken...
  • ViceroyViceroy Posts: 128
    I am not even a member of the Conservative Party but the news the Telegraph is reporting that Cameron is planning to cull 90% of local Tory Associations has my blood boiling. If this sort of attitude is already evident among the Cameroons/Remain side, it should tell any Tory member who is still on the fence as to which way they should go. And it ain't Remain.

    I have a feeling regardless of the result Mr Cameron is going to be as popular as Mr Heath and Mr Blair are not just among activists but among the population at large.

    News for those who are posting leaflets or planning to, Labour Leave have announced they are printing their own leaflets and have asked for people to get in touch to volunteer to hand them out. I've already emailed them.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453
    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Some big money stepping in at low odds on the Democrat race.

    Well the primary races will be over soon.
    Also 2nd Congressman endorsing Trump today:

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/donald-trump-endorsement-tom-marino-220002

    The KKK controversy hasn't stopped republican elected officials starting to coalesce around Trump.
    This is one of the most disgraceful bits of journalism I've ever seen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcWbpGMzSjc

    Utterly disgusting.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
    And all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by,
    And the wheel's kick, and the wind's song, and the white sails shaking,
    And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking...
    Nice poem to fit this story Mr Crosby.
    I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide,
    Is a wild call, and a clear call that may not be denied.
    And all I ask is a windy day, with the white clouds flying,
    And the flung spray, and the blown spume, and the seagulls crying.

    I must go down to the seas again, to the vagrant, gypsy life,
    To the gull's way, and the whale's way, where the wind's like a whetted knife.
    And all I ask is a merry yarn with a laughing fellow-rover,
    And quiet sleep, and a sweet dream, when the long trick's over.

    [Masefield, Sea Fever. I read it at my Dad's funeral]
    I read "High Flight" while giving the eulogy at the funeral of a decorated ww2 Lancaster pilot, a friend of my father, who flew over 90 missions and survived the war.

    "Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
    And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
    Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
    of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
    You have not dreamed of — wheeled and soared and swung
    High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there,
    I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
    My eager craft through footless halls of air....

    Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
    I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace.
    Where never lark, or even eagle flew —
    And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
    The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
    - Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Pulpstar said:

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Some big money stepping in at low odds on the Democrat race.

    Well the primary races will be over soon.
    Also 2nd Congressman endorsing Trump today:

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/donald-trump-endorsement-tom-marino-220002

    The KKK controversy hasn't stopped republican elected officials starting to coalesce around Trump.
    This is one of the most disgraceful bits of journalism I've ever seen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcWbpGMzSjc

    Utterly disgusting.
    It's MSNBC - the network that employs Brian Williams and Al Sharpton. What did you expect? That's why they have the reputation they have.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    @RodCrosby Your GOP spreadsheet seems to be broken...

    Ah, yes, Bush, dropping out. Without a tweak, the sheet still thinks he's in, and falls over if (when) it can't find him in the polls.

    Fixed now. Thanks!
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Tim_B said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
    And all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by,
    And the wheel's kick, and the wind's song, and the white sails shaking,
    And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking...
    Nice poem to fit this story Mr Crosby.
    I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide,
    Is a wild call, and a clear call that may not be denied.
    And all I ask is a windy day, with the white clouds flying,
    And the flung spray, and the blown spume, and the seagulls crying.

    I must go down to the seas again, to the vagrant, gypsy life,
    To the gull's way, and the whale's way, where the wind's like a whetted knife.
    And all I ask is a merry yarn with a laughing fellow-rover,
    And quiet sleep, and a sweet dream, when the long trick's over.

    [Masefield, Sea Fever. I read it at my Dad's funeral]
    I read "High Flight" while giving the eulogy at the funeral of a decorated ww2 Lancaster pilot, a friend of my father, who flew over 90 missions and survived the war.

    "Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
    And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
    Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
    of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
    You have not dreamed of — wheeled and soared and swung
    High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there,
    I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
    My eager craft through footless halls of air....

    Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
    I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace.
    Where never lark, or even eagle flew —
    And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
    The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
    - Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."
    Ronnie Reagan concatenated the first and last lines in tribute to the Challenger crew...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2016
    RodCrosby said:

    viewcode said:

    @RodCrosby

    Thank you for the pollyvote link you gave in previous thread. Most useful.

    You're very welcome.

    For poll-based forecasts, keep an eye on:-

    Princeton Election Consortium
    Votamatic
    FiveThirtyEight

    probably in that order...
    Votamatic doesn't seem to have been updated since November 2014:

    http://votamatic.org/
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    viewcode said:

    @RodCrosby

    Thank you for the pollyvote link you gave in previous thread. Most useful.

    You're very welcome.

    For poll-based forecasts, keep an eye on:-

    Princeton Election Consortium
    Votamatic
    FiveThirtyEight

    probably in that order...
    Votamatic doesn't seem to have updated since November 2014:

    http://votamatic.org/
    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    viewcode said:

    @RodCrosby

    Thank you for the pollyvote link you gave in previous thread. Most useful.

    You're very welcome.

    For poll-based forecasts, keep an eye on:-

    Princeton Election Consortium
    Votamatic
    FiveThirtyEight

    probably in that order...
    Votamatic doesn't seem to have updated since November 2014:

    http://votamatic.org/
    Oh, it will. It will...

    Drew Linzer is very active still.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 15,994
    Big election expense story breaking in the Mirror tomorrow.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/

    Apparently they're doing a 5-page spread on it (they rang me and numerous others for comment). Whether it actually leads to by-elections as they speculate appears to depend on whether people make formal complaints and whether the police decide to follow up. The precedent is the Fiona Jones case, where the issue of whether election-related phone canvassing should have been declared raged on for years.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,650
    edited March 2016
    Fenster said:

    Just been reading a great thread on Facebook! Loads of left wing headers ranting that the BBC shoukd be shutdown for being too right wing. One contributor said, without a hint of irony "I get my news from RT now, because the BBC is just a government mouthpiece"...

    I love people.

    That is amazing. And hilarious. Though sadly, not incredible.

    I just wonder if this is Poe's law in action?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RodCrosby said:

    Tim_B said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
    And all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by,
    And the wheel's kick, and the wind's song, and the white sails shaking,
    And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking...
    Nice poem to fit this story Mr Crosby.
    I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide,
    Is a wild call, and a clear call that may not be denied.
    And all I ask is a windy day, with the white clouds flying,
    And the flung spray, and the blown spume, and the seagulls crying.

    I must go down to the seas again, to the vagrant, gypsy life,
    To the gull's way, and the whale's way, where the wind's like a whetted knife.
    And all I ask is a merry yarn with a laughing fellow-rover,
    And quiet sleep, and a sweet dream, when the long trick's over.

    [Masefield, Sea Fever. I read it at my Dad's funeral]
    I read "High Flight" while giving the eulogy at the funeral of a decorated ww2 Lancaster pilot, a friend of my father, who flew over 90 missions and survived the war.

    "Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
    And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
    Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
    of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
    You have not dreamed of — wheeled and soared and swung
    High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there,
    I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
    My eager craft through footless halls of air....

    Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
    I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace.
    Where never lark, or even eagle flew —
    And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
    The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
    - Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."
    Ronnie Reagan concatenated the first and last lines in tribute to the Challenger crew...
    He did indeed. I first came across the poem when Orson Welles read it in a NASA film.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    The overnights are in - the Oscar telecast on ABC last night was the 3rd lowest rated ever.

    I haven't watched the show since Chariots of Fire in 1982(?) It's overblown, pretentious and I don't care about the winners political views.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Sometime at eve when the tide is low,
    I shall slip my mooring and sail away,
    With no response to the friendly hail
    Of kindred craft in the busy bay.

    In the silent hush of the twilight pale,
    When the night stoops down to embrace the day,
    And the voices call in the waters' flow,
    Sometime at eve when the tide is low,
    I shall slip my mooring and sail away.

    Through the purpling shadows that darkly trail
    O’er the ebbing tide of the Unknown Sea,
    I shall fare me away, with a dip of sail,
    And a ripple of waters to tell the tale
    Of a lonely voyager, sailing away
    To the Mystic Isles where at anchor lay
    The crafts of those who have sailed before
    O’er the Unknown Sea to the Unseen Shore.

    A few who have watched me sail away
    Will miss my craft from the busy bay;
    Some friendly barques that were anchored near,
    Some loving souls that my heart held dear,
    In silent sorrow will drop a tear—

    But I shall have peacefully furled my sail
    In moorings sheltered from storm or gale
    And greeted the friends who have sailed before
    O’er the Unknown Sea to the Unseen Shore.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453
    Tim_B said:

    The overnights are in - the Oscar telecast on ABC last night was the 3rd lowest rated ever.

    I haven't watched the show since Chariots of Fire in 1982(?) It's overblown, pretentious and I don't care about the winners political views.

    How many came out against Trump :D ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,861
    edited March 2016

    Big election expense story breaking in the Mirror tomorrow.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/

    Apparently they're doing a 5-page spread on it (they rang me and numerous others for comment). Whether it actually leads to by-elections as they speculate appears to depend on whether people make formal complaints and whether the police decide to follow up. The precedent is the Fiona Jones case, where the issue of whether election-related phone canvassing should have been declared raged on for years.

    It all revolves around the RoadTrip bus visiting a constituency. It seems far from concrete if breaks the rules and is a rehash of a Paul Staines story, that he ran 1-2 weeks ago. He claims that those on RoadTrip where then feed and watered and housed elsewhere and the claims where then made at the other locations as a neat "sidestep".

    In comparison to the Crick investigation where individuals were staying in somewhere day in day out (although again he never makes it clear if the hotels in question where located in the constituency or if the Tories are again stretching the elastic band by staying outside of it).
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,650
    edited March 2016
    Chinese friend of mine (bright, Oxbridge first, investment banker) once told me she didn't trust Western media, for various hackneyed reasons - whether it's for-profit corporations or state broadcasting, none of them would tell you The Truth, and they kept a lot of secrets.

    Fortunately Chinese agencies were more reliable. For example, the news that Russia had developed genetically modified frogmen-soldiers who are able to breathe underwater using gills, and that their military trials in the had been successful had been completely suppressed in the West.

    Had to be true. She showed me the story. Pointed at her laptop screen, see!

    Bloody self-made millionairess plonkerette.

    I look at my bank account sometimes, and wonder if there's something wrong about the way I think. Not optimally adapted for the world, I fear. Why can't I just think like "normal" people/people several 0's richer than me?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Chinese friend of mine (bright, Oxbridge first, investment banker) once told me she didn't trust Western media, for various hackneyed reasons - whether it's for-profit corporations or state broadcasting, none of them would tell you The Truth, and they kept a lot of secrets.

    Fortunately Chinese agencies were more reliable. For example, the news that Russia had developed genetically modified frogmen-soldiers who are able to breathe underwater using gills, and that their military trials in the had been successful had been completely suppressed in the West.

    Had to be true. She showed me the story. Pointed at her laptop screen, see!

    Bloody self-made millionairess plonkerette.

    I look at my bank account sometimes, and wonder if there's something wrong about the way I think. Not optimally adapted for the world, I fear. Why can't I just think like "normal" people/people several 0's richer than me?

    Normal people aren't rich. They're in debt.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Pulpstar said:

    Tim_B said:

    The overnights are in - the Oscar telecast on ABC last night was the 3rd lowest rated ever.

    I haven't watched the show since Chariots of Fire in 1982(?) It's overblown, pretentious and I don't care about the winners political views.

    How many came out against Trump :D ?
    Probably all of them :lol:
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Pulpstar said:

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Some big money stepping in at low odds on the Democrat race.

    Well the primary races will be over soon.
    Also 2nd Congressman endorsing Trump today:

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/donald-trump-endorsement-tom-marino-220002

    The KKK controversy hasn't stopped republican elected officials starting to coalesce around Trump.
    This is one of the most disgraceful bits of journalism I've ever seen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcWbpGMzSjc

    Utterly disgusting.
    What's disgusting? the bias? isn't that par for the course in US tv news?
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,785
    I'm not even sure if I heard correctly or remember correctly, but I think Marco Rubio referred to the "Klu Klux Klan". Another thing he hasn't got a klue about.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,861
    edited March 2016
    Tim_B said:

    The overnights are in - the Oscar telecast on ABC last night was the 3rd lowest rated ever.

    I haven't watched the show since Chariots of Fire in 1982(?) It's overblown, pretentious and I don't care about the winners political views.

    Fronted by a man who has made a career on the back of racial jokes. Thanks but no thanks. Actually the best "gag" I heard that was actually really cutting. Sasha Baron Cohen (showing he is extremely smart) in Ali G character saying

    'Ow come there’s no Oscar for dem very hard-working little yellow people with tiny d***s. You know, the Minions.'

    I am not sure the audience got it. He has never repeated the cutting nature of the original incarnation of Ali G interviewing the great and the good.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    Chinese friend of mine (bright, Oxbridge first, investment banker) once told me she didn't trust Western media, for various hackneyed reasons - whether it's for-profit corporations or state broadcasting, none of them would tell you The Truth, and they kept a lot of secrets.

    Fortunately Chinese agencies were more reliable. For example, the news that Russia had developed genetically modified frogmen-soldiers who are able to breathe underwater using gills, and that their military trials in the had been successful had been completely suppressed in the West.

    Had to be true. She showed me the story. Pointed at her laptop screen, see!

    Bloody self-made millionairess plonkerette.

    I look at my bank account sometimes, and wonder if there's something wrong about the way I think. Not optimally adapted for the world, I fear. Why can't I just think like "normal" people/people several 0's richer than me?

    lol
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,650
    edited March 2016
    AndyJS said:

    Chinese friend of mine (bright, Oxbridge first, investment banker) once told me she didn't trust Western media, for various hackneyed reasons - whether it's for-profit corporations or state broadcasting, none of them would tell you The Truth, and they kept a lot of secrets.

    Fortunately Chinese agencies were more reliable. For example, the news that Russia had developed genetically modified frogmen-soldiers who are able to breathe underwater using gills, and that their military trials in the had been successful had been completely suppressed in the West.

    Had to be true. She showed me the story. Pointed at her laptop screen, see!

    Bloody self-made millionairess plonkerette.

    I look at my bank account sometimes, and wonder if there's something wrong about the way I think. Not optimally adapted for the world, I fear. Why can't I just think like "normal" people/people several 0's richer than me?

    Normal people aren't rich. They're in debt.
    Well yes, hence the stroke.

    You only need £100 in your name to be richer than a surprisingly large percentage of the UK population. And if you save up a few paycheques and get it up to £3000, say, there are many, many millions of people worse off than you.

    I really intended my comment as a counterpoint - not a counterargument, more a complement - to @Mortimer's claim that the revelations of social media are the best argument against the universal adult franchise. Which is probably true. It's like having a one-sided "conversation" with the average voter, except it's smeared into your eyeballs and leaks on for more than five minutes (or whatever Winston was reputed to have said).

    The thing about the idiocy is that it isn't confined to the lumpenproletariat and Scumville Polytechnic's sociology graduates. Goes all the way to the top of society. Heck, if the US primaries are any guide, all the way to the very top.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453
    @dugarbandier

    The way they dismiss the voter's opinion because he's a black Trump supporter !

    Trump is alot of things, but racist against black people he ain't.

    Speaking of which look at this great photo of Trump, Don King and H W ! http://www.bustle.com/articles/138853-8-old-photos-of-donald-trump-that-look-nothing-like-donald-trump/image/675719
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 57,861
    edited March 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    @dugarbandier

    The way they dismiss the voter's opinion because he's a black Trump supporter !

    Trump is alot of things, but racist against black people he ain't.

    Speaking of which look at this great photo of Trump, Don King and H W ! http://www.bustle.com/articles/138853-8-old-photos-of-donald-trump-that-look-nothing-like-donald-trump/image/675719

    They might as well have had big flashing lights saying "stupid black man...stupid black man...we think he is a stupid black man"....seemed a pretty racist reaction to me.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    I'm hearing on the grapevine that Prof Norpoth may have adjusted his forecast slightly, in the light of Clinton's performance in SC.

    5% GOP lead, instead of 9.4%

    87% chance of Prez Trump, instead of 97%.

    I'm waiting for his final paper to appear on his website.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 36,665
    viewcode said:

    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking
    George Kennedy, star of Cool Hand Luke and Naked Gun, dies aged 91 - grandson announces http://bbc.in/21xku5w

    Does anybody remember Joe Patroni, the character he played in the entertaining-but-wildly-implausible Airport series? The makers took increasingly strained steps to keep him in the movies, ending up with him as a Concorde co-pilot opposite Alain Delon and David Warner, which was...a bit weird. Odd trivia: the Concorde aircraft they used for the non-model shots in "Airport 79/80" was the same one that crashed outside Paris.

    Airport gets a good 80% on Rotten Tomatoes
    Airport 75 gets only 31%
    Airport 77 gets only 40%
    Airport 80: The Concorde gets a terrible 17%!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453
    RodCrosby said:

    I'm hearing on the grapevine that Prof Norpoth may have adjusted his forecast slightly, in the light of Clinton's performance in SC.

    5% GOP lead, instead of 9.4%

    87% chance of Prez Trump, instead of 97%.

    I'm waiting for his final paper to appear on his website.

    He'll have alot more data points tommorow if he wants them
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I just turned on my Apple TV Fire device and found there was an update. Not for the Fire itself but for the remote control. Weird.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 36,665

    Tim_B said:

    The overnights are in - the Oscar telecast on ABC last night was the 3rd lowest rated ever.

    I haven't watched the show since Chariots of Fire in 1982(?) It's overblown, pretentious and I don't care about the winners political views.

    Fronted by a man who has made a career on the back of racial jokes. Thanks but no thanks. Actually the best "gag" I heard that was actually really cutting. Sasha Baron Cohen (showing he is extremely smart) in Ali G character saying

    'Ow come there’s no Oscar for dem very hard-working little yellow people with tiny d***s. You know, the Minions.'

    I am not sure the audience got it. He has never repeated the cutting nature of the original incarnation of Ali G interviewing the great and the good.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-YYroSudUs
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    I'm hearing on the grapevine that Prof Norpoth may have adjusted his forecast slightly, in the light of Clinton's performance in SC.

    5% GOP lead, instead of 9.4%

    87% chance of Prez Trump, instead of 97%.

    I'm waiting for his final paper to appear on his website.

    He'll have alot more data points tommorow if he wants them
    Are you all in on trump?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453
    edited March 2016
    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    I'm hearing on the grapevine that Prof Norpoth may have adjusted his forecast slightly, in the light of Clinton's performance in SC.

    5% GOP lead, instead of 9.4%

    87% chance of Prez Trump, instead of 97%.

    I'm waiting for his final paper to appear on his website.

    He'll have alot more data points tommorow if he wants them
    Are you all in on trump?
    GOP Race I am like -400 Rubio; +700 Trump +3500 or something Cruz. The rest are onside.

    POTUS I am 0 Clinton; -1700 Sanders; + 1580 Trump. Rubio is -400 or so. Everyone else who I think could possibly have an effect is onside, but I'm playing a backing game here so there is a whole bunch of 1000-1 shots I have not covered at the bottom on Betfair. Romney is a small +ve, Ryan ~0. Carson is a big red.

    How about yrself ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453
    Tricky to extract back the capital at this pointin the POTUS race.Hopefully can create some ~ 100% lay books when the field has winnowed hopefully to Trump/Hillary.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Pulpstar said:

    @dugarbandier

    The way they dismiss the voter's opinion because he's a black Trump supporter !

    Trump is alot of things, but racist against black people he ain't.

    Speaking of which look at this great photo of Trump, Don King and H W ! http://www.bustle.com/articles/138853-8-old-photos-of-donald-trump-that-look-nothing-like-donald-trump/image/675719

    I guess the OB team didn't get them the kind of vox pops they wanted..

    that is a good picture. He was a lot less orange in those days
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited March 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    I'm hearing on the grapevine that Prof Norpoth may have adjusted his forecast slightly, in the light of Clinton's performance in SC.

    5% GOP lead, instead of 9.4%

    87% chance of Prez Trump, instead of 97%.

    I'm waiting for his final paper to appear on his website.

    He'll have alot more data points tommorow if he wants them
    Are you all in on trump?
    GOP Race I am like -400 Rubio; +700 Trump +3500 or something Cruz. The rest are onside.

    POTUS I am 0 Clinton; -1700 Sanders; + 1580 Trump. Rubio is -400 or so. Everyone else who I think could possibly have an effect is onside, but I'm playing a backing game here so there is a whole bunch of 1000-1 shots I have not covered at the bottom on Betfair. Romney is a small +ve, Ryan ~0. Carson is a big red.

    How about yrself ?
    Yeah. My judgment of value isn't much different to yours.

    GOP
    Cruz +£11.5k
    everyone else -£250

    POTUS
    Trump +£8k
    Rubio/biden/kasich +£800
    Sanders/Clinton +-£0
    Cruz +£40k
    Bloomberg +£14k
    Romney/Ryan +£silly
    everyone else +£15k

    I'd lay trump @ <2/1 right now, if I could. @ 3/1 he's a hold or back.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "More people in their 70s earn enough to pay 40pc higher-rate income tax than those in their thirties, new figures have revealed.

    Despite the vast majority being retired, an "astonishing turnaround" in pensioner wealth now means a higher proportion of septuagenarians have incomes above the £42,385 higher-rate tax threshold than their younger counterparts, most of whom are in full-time employment."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/12178150/More-people-in-their-70s-in-higher-tax-bracket-than-those-in-their-thirties.html
This discussion has been closed.