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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Two months before the 2011 AV referendum the polls were poi

SystemSystem Posts: 11,682
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Two months before the 2011 AV referendum the polls were pointing to a YES victory

The table shows the published AV referendum polls for February/early March in 2011 about two months before the election in early May. As can be seen  all the online polls had leads for the YES camp. The only phone poll, ICM, had it level-pegging.

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435
    edited February 2016
    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.
  • Options
    On another note, I'd love to know the thinking behind the launch of New Day. It gives every impression of having being devised on the back of focus group sessions in which people have said: "If only newspapers had more positive news and were not politically biased we'd definitely buy them." Of course they would. I give it weeks.
  • Options

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435
    edited February 2016

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    He's already got an amazing legacy.

    Kept Scotland in the union for a generation.

    Destroyed the Lib Dems, for whom past Tory leaders couldn't shift like a bad STD

    Gove improved education standards.

    IDS has launched excellent welfare reform

    Ozzy has unleashed a jobs miracle as part of a wider economic miracle

    Introduced same sex marriage.

    What a time to be a one nation Tory.

    He drove Labour mad and they elected Corbyn.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    On another note, I'd love to know the thinking behind the launch of New Day. It gives every impression of having being devised on the back of focus group sessions in which people have said: "If only newspapers had more positive news and were not politically biased we'd definitely buy them." Of course they would. I give it weeks.

    I agree 50p next week too.

    Far inferior to i
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited February 2016
    FPT:
    SeanT said:

    To be fair I think we are at cross purposes, because you are incapable of expressing yourself coherently.

    My point is that the eurosceptic vote is concentrated in WWC areas, with the old, the uneducated especially represented, along with a large tranche of Tories of all stripes (as I said).

    Your point was.... dunno.

    My point is that Eurosceptic correlates with right wing voters and not hellholes which is what I said. Europhile correlates with Labour/SNP/PC.

    To get out the Eurosceptic vote the Leave campaign needs to win the vast majority of the right wing Tory style voters first and foremost and appeal to lefties secondary. This again is what I said which you objected to so vehemently:

    isam said:

    ... and while the middle class Tory types chat to each other about treaty change, GDP and CAP, Farage et al will be visiting every hell hole in England telling the underclass this is their chance

    Which is why he'll lose overwhelmingly if he's in charge. As those people don't vote.

    It doesn't even make sense. Look at YouGov's graph of where is eurosceptic and where is europhile. Does euroscepticism correlate with being a hellhole? No, quite the opposite, those are the most europhile areas in the country. Euroscepticism is at its highest by and large where the right wing vote is the highest, that is the target demographic to get out the vote.
    I stand by that Euroscepticism is at its highest by and large where the right wing vote is highest. I never said that it's not a WWC right-wing vote did I? Just that it's not a hell hole.

    I do not think Warrington is a hellhole. I don't think isam considers Havering to be a hellhole. While we do indeed have more right wing voters than our neighbours. I fail to understand what I've written that is objectionable to you.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,845

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    He's already got an amazing legacy.

    Kept Scotland in the union for a generation.

    Destroyed the Lib Dems, for whom past Tory leaders couldn't shift like a bad STD

    Gove improved education standards.

    IDS has launched excellent welfare reform

    Ozzy has unleashed a jobs miracle as part of a wider economic miracle

    Introduced same sex marriage.

    What a time to be a one nation Tory.

    He drove Labour mad and they elected Corbyn.
    So, Conservative voters can say cheerfully " thank you, and goodbye.". If Leave wins, Cameron loses nothing personally. Rather the reverse, he'll earn a fortune.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    Angus Reid No to AV 22% LOL
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    In a democracy with a tinge of anti establishment feeling, the PM can be as ruthless as he likes, however the proletariat may incline away from the wishes of the ruthless PM and serve up a dish with no respect for his desired direction.

    There are a lot of grumpy sectors out there, several of them that vote.
  • Options

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    His family have time invested in the Conservative party. Is Cameron going to leave a legacy of a party split apart by his tactics in winning for REMAIN? How much does he want to be the PM who kept us in the EU and the won who broke his party apart? Not much of a legacy.
  • Options

    Angus Reid No to AV 22% LOL

    To be fair comparing like for like it's 37% once you exclude Don't Knows and Won't Vote.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?

    Sailing Cup in Australia
    Emmm

    Edit - was it to or from Hobart?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    Great news! Cruel Tory #ESACuts defeated after powerful speech by Tanni Grey-Thompson
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    He's already got an amazing legacy.

    Kept Scotland in the union for a generation.

    Destroyed the Lib Dems, for whom past Tory leaders couldn't shift like a bad STD

    Gove improved education standards.

    IDS has launched excellent welfare reform

    Ozzy has unleashed a jobs miracle as part of a wider economic miracle

    Introduced same sex marriage.

    What a time to be a one nation Tory.
    His legacy will be this dreadful referendum, and his lies thereto. It will overshadow everything else, the way Iraq overshadowed Blair. No one remembers anything else Blair did (and some of it was good, as I must reluctantly admit) they remember the electric issue of the day, which poisons Labour even now. Arguably Corbyn's election is a direct result of Labour guilt over Iraq.

    Cameron hasn't done anything spectacularly good which might counterweight this awful EU shit.

    Remember we are only one week into this campaign and Tories are already talking about deposing him. This will only get worse. He will win his referendum with the support of Labourites, the same way Blair got his Iraq vote through, with the help of Tories, the historical result will be the same.
    In 2012/13 Nadine Dorries predicted Dave would be facing a leadership election that year.

    Dave always needed Lab, Lib Dem et al support to win the referendum.

    The Tories polled 37% last year. To win a majority you need over 50%.

    I know you don't understand politics that well, so stop talking about the EU referendum, you're embrassing yourself.

    So if this Dave's Iraq, how many Brits will die and how many Iraqis will die?

    Have you started talking hyperbole pills instead of your viagra?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    Another pointer to the uselessness of polling this far out is the Euros

    Anyone with half a clue knew UKIP would win, yet at this stage, "The Gold Standard" had them 15% behind Labour in third place

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(United_Kingdom)#Opinion_polls
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    @Thescreamingeagles You're a man of impeccable fashion taste but have you thought about renaming the site politicaltoadies.com :D ?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?

    Took Middlesbrough out of Yorkshire and sacked the vile racist Enoch Powell.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    FPT:

    SeanT said:

    To be fair I think we are at cross purposes, because you are incapable of expressing yourself coherently.

    My point is that the eurosceptic vote is concentrated in WWC areas, with the old, the uneducated especially represented, along with a large tranche of Tories of all stripes (as I said).

    Your point was.... dunno.

    My point is that Eurosceptic correlates with right wing voters and not hellholes which is what I said. Europhile correlates with Labour/SNP/PC.

    To get out the Eurosceptic vote the Leave campaign needs to win the vast majority of the right wing Tory style voters first and foremost and appeal to lefties secondary. This again is what I said which you objected to so vehemently:

    isam said:

    ... and while the middle class Tory types chat to each other about treaty change, GDP and CAP, Farage et al will be visiting every hell hole in England telling the underclass this is their chance

    Which is why he'll lose overwhelmingly if he's in charge. As those people don't vote.

    It doesn't even make sense. Look at YouGov's graph of where is eurosceptic and where is europhile. Does euroscepticism correlate with being a hellhole? No, quite the opposite, those are the most europhile areas in the country. Euroscepticism is at its highest by and large where the right wing vote is the highest, that is the target demographic to get out the vote.
    I stand by that Euroscepticism is at its highest by and large where the right wing vote is highest. I never said that it's not a WWC right-wing vote did I? Just that it's not a hell hole.

    I do not think Warrington is a hellhole. I don't think isam considers Havering to be a hellhole. While we do indeed have more right wing voters than our neighbours. I fail to understand what I've written that is objectionable to you.
    It's not objectionable. It's just so badly written I can't understand your point. Sorry.
    The hellhole comment was in response to isam where I've discussed this with him a few times in recent days, though this was the first time since the YouGov data was released. I'm not sure where you consider to be especially a hellhole that is especially a eurosceptic area.

    "Euroscepticism is at its highest by and large where the right wing vote is the highest" - how much clearer does that need to be?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?

    3 DAY WEEK
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    @Thescreamingeagles You're a man of impeccable fashion taste but have you thought about renaming the site politicaltoadies.com :D ?

    I'm such a toadie to Dave, that for the second plebiscite in a row, I'll be opposing Dave, in all likelihood.
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    @Thescreamingeagles You're a man of impeccable fashion taste but have you thought about renaming the site politicaltoadies.com :D ?

    I'm such a toadie to Dave, that for the second plebiscite in a row, I'll be opposing Dave, in all likelihood.
    LOL ditto. Hadn't thought about that.
  • Options

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    His family have time invested in the Conservative party. Is Cameron going to leave a legacy of a party split apart by his tactics in winning for REMAIN? How much does he want to be the PM who kept us in the EU and the won who broke his party apart? Not much of a legacy.

    Country before party and all that. Cameron needed to keep his party together half-way through the last parliament because he wanted to win the next general election. That is why we have the referendum. He has no more general elections to win. This is his last hurrah. And he knows however savage the Tory civil war, the current Labour leader means the Tories will win in 2020. The party will not split.

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435
    edited February 2016
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    He's already got an amazing legacy.

    Kept Scotland in the union for a generation.

    Destroyed the Lib Dems, for whom past Tory leaders couldn't shift like a bad STD

    Gove improved education standards.

    IDS has launched excellent welfare reform

    Ozzy has unleashed a jobs miracle as part of a wider economic miracle

    Introduced same sex marriage.

    What a time to be a one nation Tory.
    His legacy will be this dreadful referendum, and his lies thereto. It will overshadow everything else, the way Iraq overshadowed Blair. No one remembers anything else Blair did (and some of it was good, as I must reluctantly admit) they remember the electric issue of the day, which poisons Labour even now. Arguably Corbyn's election is a direct result of Labour guilt over Iraq.

    Cameron hasn't done anything spectacularly good which might counterweight this awful EU shit.

    Remember we are only one week into this campaign and Tories are already talking about deposing him. This will only get worse. He will win his referendum with the support of Labourites, the same way Blair got his Iraq vote through, with the help of Tories, the historical result will be the same.
    In 2012/13 Nadine Dorries predicted Dave would be facing a leadership election that year.

    Dave always needed Lab, Lib Dem et al support to win the referendum.

    The Tories polled 37% last year. To win a majority you need over 50%.

    I know you don't understand politics that well, so stop talking about the EU referendum, you're embrassing yourself.

    So if this Dave's Iraq, how many Brits will die and how many Iraqis will die?

    Have you started talking hyperbole pills instead of your viagra?
    You seem oddly unnerved.
    Hah, I'm the antithesis of unnerved.

    I'm really looking forward to editing PB during the final stages of the referendum.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Cameron was against AV, he is for the EU
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Pulpstar said:

    @Thescreamingeagles You're a man of impeccable fashion taste but have you thought about renaming the site politicaltoadies.com :D ?

    I'm such a toadie to Dave, that for the second plebiscite in a row, I'll be opposing Dave, in all likelihood.
    ;no you wont you'll crack at the last minute.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?

    Took Middlesbrough out of Yorkshire and sacked the vile racist Enoch Powell.
    Took us into the EEC. Anyone voting Remain presumably thinks that was a good thing. (Notwithstanding those people contorting themselves into "it's horrible that we're in but we mustn't leave" positions.)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    OK This explains Oklahoma:

    It might be the eau de anti-establishment ambrosia that Sanders has doused himself in, but he appears to be appealing to the overwhelmingly white, middle to lower-middle class Democratic voters in Oklahoma in ways that he hasn’t been able to with minorities in other parts of the South (see: South Carolina). Eighty-two percent of Oklahoma’s 2008 Democratic primary voters were white and half had yearly household incomes between $30,000 and $75,000.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?

    3 DAY WEEK
    If it wasn't for him there'd be far fewer muslims here, so no 7/7, no Lee Rigby murder and far less paedophilia from South Yorkshire Asians
  • Options

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    He's already got an amazing legacy.

    Kept Scotland in the union for a generation.

    Destroyed the Lib Dems, for whom past Tory leaders couldn't shift like a bad STD

    Gove improved education standards.

    IDS has launched excellent welfare reform

    Ozzy has unleashed a jobs miracle as part of a wider economic miracle

    Introduced same sex marriage.

    What a time to be a one nation Tory.

    He drove Labour mad and they elected Corbyn.

    If he loses the referendum, none of that counts - even if it were true. Instead, he will be remembered as the PM who could not persuade the British people to back him and stay in the EU. As a handy extra, he may also end up being remembered as the PM who precipitated the end of the UK. That's some legacy.

  • Options

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    He's already got an amazing legacy.

    Kept Scotland in the union for a generation.

    Destroyed the Lib Dems, for whom past Tory leaders couldn't shift like a bad STD

    Gove improved education standards.

    IDS has launched excellent welfare reform

    Ozzy has unleashed a jobs miracle as part of a wider economic miracle

    Introduced same sex marriage.

    What a time to be a one nation Tory.
    His legacy will be this dreadful referendum, and his lies thereto. It will overshadow everything else, the way Iraq overshadowed Blair. No one remembers anything else Blair did (and some of it was good, as I must reluctantly admit) they remember the electric issue of the day, which poisons Labour even now. Arguably Corbyn's election is a direct result of Labour guilt over Iraq.

    Cameron hasn't done anything spectacularly good which might counterweight this awful EU shit.

    Remember we are only one week into this campaign and Tories are already talking about deposing him. This will only get worse. He will win his referendum with the support of Labourites, the same way Blair got his Iraq vote through, with the help of Tories, the historical result will be the same.
    In 2012/13 Nadine Dorries predicted Dave would be facing a leadership election that year.

    Dave always needed Lab, Lib Dem et al support to win the referendum.

    The Tories polled 37% last year. To win a majority you need over 50%.

    I know you don't understand politics that well, so stop talking about the EU referendum, you're embrassing yourself.

    So if this Dave's Iraq, how many Brits will die and how many Iraqis will die?

    Have you started talking hyperbole pills instead of your viagra?
    You seem oddly unnerved.
    Hah, I'm the antithesis of unnerved.

    I'm really looking forward to editing PB during the final stages of the referendum.
    As much as you enjoyed seeing Raheem Sterling make a fool of himself yesterday ?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?

    My uncle became an MP during Ted Heath's reign. Admittedly, Heath didn't really have that much to do with it. :-)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments

    'Imbecility, imbecility' was how Powell put it
  • Options

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    His family have time invested in the Conservative party. Is Cameron going to leave a legacy of a party split apart by his tactics in winning for REMAIN? How much does he want to be the PM who kept us in the EU and the won who broke his party apart? Not much of a legacy.

    Country before party and all that. Cameron needed to keep his party together half-way through the last parliament because he wanted to win the next general election. That is why we have the referendum. He has no more general elections to win. This is his last hurrah. And he knows however savage the Tory civil war, the current Labour leader means the Tories will win in 2020. The party will not split.

    Not getting back soveriegnty is putting the EU before country.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited February 2016

    On another note, I'd love to know the thinking behind the launch of New Day. It gives every impression of having being devised on the back of focus group sessions in which people have said: "If only newspapers had more positive news and were not politically biased we'd definitely buy them." Of course they would. I give it weeks.

    Yep. Though somewhat larger, it reminds me of the little printed newspapers we read in school, about age ten or so, nudging us into thinking about current events. In short, it's pap. Is there a market for that?
    Edit: Actually I think it may be less demanding than that.
  • Options
    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Pulpstar

    'Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments'


    3 day week and giving more away to the EU than Blair.
  • Options

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    He's already got an amazing legacy.

    Kept Scotland in the union for a generation.

    Destroyed the Lib Dems, for whom past Tory leaders couldn't shift like a bad STD

    Gove improved education standards.

    IDS has launched excellent welfare reform

    Ozzy has unleashed a jobs miracle as part of a wider economic miracle

    Introduced same sex marriage.

    What a time to be a one nation Tory.
    His legacy will be this dreadful referendum, and his lies thereto. It will overshadow everything else, the way Iraq overshadowed Blair. No one remembers anything else Blair did (and some of it was good, as I must reluctantly admit) they remember the electric issue of the day, which poisons Labour even now. Arguably Corbyn's election is a direct result of Labour guilt over Iraq.

    Cameron hasn't done anything spectacularly good which might counterweight this awful EU shit.

    Remember we are only one week into this campaign and Tories are already talking about deposing him. This will only get worse. He will win his referendum with the support of Labourites, the same way Blair got his Iraq vote through, with the help of Tories, the historical result will be the same.
    In 2012/13 Nadine Dorries predicted Dave would be facing a leadership election that year.

    Dave always needed Lab, Lib Dem et al support to win the referendum.

    The Tories polled 37% last year. To win a majority you need over 50%.

    I know you don't understand politics that well, so stop talking about the EU referendum, you're embrassing yourself.

    So if this Dave's Iraq, how many Brits will die and how many Iraqis will die?

    Have you started talking hyperbole pills instead of your viagra?
    You seem oddly unnerved.
    Hah, I'm the antithesis of unnerved.

    I'm really looking forward to editing PB during the final stages of the referendum.
    As much as you enjoyed seeing Raheem Sterling make a fool of himself yesterday ?
    Even more than that.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited February 2016

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    His family have time invested in the Conservative party. Is Cameron going to leave a legacy of a party split apart by his tactics in winning for REMAIN? How much does he want to be the PM who kept us in the EU and the won who broke his party apart? Not much of a legacy.

    Country before party and all that. Cameron needed to keep his party together half-way through the last parliament because he wanted to win the next general election. That is why we have the referendum. He has no more general elections to win. This is his last hurrah. And he knows however savage the Tory civil war, the current Labour leader means the Tories will win in 2020. The party will not split.

    Not getting back soveriegnty is putting the EU before country.
    x
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    runnymede said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments

    'Imbecility, imbecility' was how Powell put it

    Amazing how different our country could have been. Powell was supported by a huge cross section of society, real Englishmen who had lived through the war etc

    But, the political elite know best.. and look at the state of the place now
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    'Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments'

    He's TSE's father
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    runnymede said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments

    'Imbecility, imbecility' was how Powell put it

    One long list of failure:

    Trade union reform, inflation, Sunningdale agreement, 3 day week, unemployment over a million, decline of the Scottish Conservatives after renaming the party, messy local government reorganisation in 1974, totally misleading propaganda and underhand tactics used in joining the EEC.......and lets not mention his nefarious private activities.

    Enoch Powell was mistaken on a number of things, but on Heath he was absolutely right.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    He's already got an amazing legacy.

    Kept Scotland in the union for a generation.

    Destroyed the Lib Dems, for whom past Tory leaders couldn't shift like a bad STD

    Gove improved education standards.

    IDS has launched excellent welfare reform

    Ozzy has unleashed a jobs miracle as part of a wider economic miracle

    Introduced same sex marriage.

    What a time to be a one nation Tory.

    He drove Labour mad and they elected Corbyn.

    If he loses the referendum, none of that counts - even if it were true. Instead, he will be remembered as the PM who could not persuade the British people to back him and stay in the EU. As a handy extra, he may also end up being remembered as the PM who precipitated the end of the UK. That's some legacy.

    Doesn't that depend on how well leaving the EU works out. If it goes smoothly with barely a ripple of economic disruption then Leave winning will be a personal failure for Cameron (and the occasion of his departure) but not something the country looks back on with bitterness. The earlier parts of Cameron's career will still be seen for what they were, good or bad depending on your tastes. People will note that he got himself on the wrong side of the (in hindsight) surprisingly controversial EU question and had to resign.

    If leaving goes less smoothly or turns into something like a crisis then Cameron (and the whole Conservative Party) will be blamed for triggering it and that will obscure anything else he has achieved.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    isam said:

    runnymede said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments

    'Imbecility, imbecility' was how Powell put it

    Amazing how different our country could have been. Powell was supported by a huge cross section of society, real Englishmen who had lived through the war etc

    But, the political elite know best.. and look at the state of the place now
    You're barking MAD isam!
  • Options

    'Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments'

    He's TSE's father

    After I've published my Enoch Powell thread, that comparison might be apt.

    Contains the line, Enoch Powell ruined the lives of more children than your average paedophile and didn't have the courage to admit he was wrong
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    What do you make of this thread Sean? Recommend it to journo friends?

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/28/michael-gove-could-be-set-to-play-the-role-of-brutus-to-david-camerons-caesar/
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    OK, I will rephrase. Your point is so trite, boring and obvious it doesn't require expression.

    It does when the argument is to prioritise
    isam said:

    ... visiting every hell hole in England telling the underclass this is their chance

  • Options
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Who's tim? Farron?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    What do you call a troll who is too scared to debate face to face?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    'Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments'

    He's TSE's father

    After I've published my Enoch Powell thread, that comparison might be apt.

    Contains the line, Enoch Powell ruined the lives of more children than your average paedophile and didn't have the courage to admit he was wrong
    One could write that about any leading politician. Try something risky.
  • Options
    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?

    Creating the right set of circumstances for Margaret Thatcher to be elected leader of the Conservatives?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    'Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments'

    He's TSE's father

    Didn't know Ted Heath was alive and well working in the ...... (better not say in case TSE doesnt want it to be known)
  • Options
    Wanderer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?

    Took Middlesbrough out of Yorkshire and sacked the vile racist Enoch Powell.
    Took us into the EEC. Anyone voting Remain presumably thinks that was a good thing. (Notwithstanding those people contorting themselves into "it's horrible that we're in but we mustn't leave" positions.)
    Thing is that this is the idiotic thing about the Remain camp.

    If you believe the polling then many if not the majority of those who are going to vote Remain don't think the EU is a good thing and probably wouldn't think that it was a good thing for us to join in the first place. It is at best a necessary evil to them.

    This is the problem that Cameron will have after a Remain win. As soon as it becomes clear that Cameron's deal is worthless and things start to get worse there are a lot of people on the Remain side who are going to feel very betrayed. Worse for Cameron they will feel guilty or having been taken for a ride.

    I don't really give much for his legacy. Heath will look like the epitome of honesty alongside Cameron.
  • Options

    'Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments'

    He's TSE's father

    After I've published my Enoch Powell thread, that comparison might be apt.

    Contains the line, Enoch Powell ruined the lives of more children than your average paedophile and didn't have the courage to admit he was wrong
    One could write that about any leading politician. Try something risky.
    Well I do have a piece I want to run past you first.

    With the DUP advocating Leave, could the Ulster Scots be responsible for the Scots leaving the UK?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited February 2016
    The opinions of Englishmen in 1968 about Enoch Powell, his speech on immigration, and Ted Heath's decision to sack him

    "...four different opinion polls, Gallup, ORC, NOP and Daily Express, all recorded overwhelming public support for him. Gallup recorded 74%, ORC 82%, NOP 67% and the Express 79%.

    The corresponding opinion figures against were 15%, 12%, 19% and 17%.

    On the question of whether Heath had been right to dismiss him, three of the same polls, in the same order, gave the figures for Heath as 20%, 18% and 25% and against him 69%, 73% and 61%.

    The Daily Express poll did not ask about the dismissal."

    http://www.ukapologetics.net/11/powell.htm
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=V18ui3Rtjz4

    Trump by 13 lengths.
    Secretariat would be a better President then any of them.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
    My daughter is off to work in Kenya again later this month.

    She is taking a suitcase full of easter eggs for her Kenyan colleagues.

    Surely they will melt?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited February 2016

    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
    My daughter is off to work in Kenya again later this month.

    She is taking a suitcase full of easter eggs for her Kenyan colleagues.

    Surely they will melt?
    If they're suckers for Easter Eggs and northern accents I am sure they will
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    isam said:

    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
    My daughter is off to work in Kenya again later this month.

    She is taking a suitcase full of easter eggs for her Kenyan colleagues.

    Surely they will melt?
    If they're suckers for Easter Eggs and northern accents I am sure they will
    By Eck is not a Scottish betting tip?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    'Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments'

    He's TSE's father

    After I've published my Enoch Powell thread, that comparison might be apt.

    Contains the line, Enoch Powell ruined the lives of more children than your average paedophile and didn't have the courage to admit he was wrong
    One could write that about any leading politician. Try something risky.
    Well I do have a piece I want to run past you first.

    With the DUP advocating Leave, could the Ulster Scots be responsible for the Scots leaving the UK?
    I'm just back from Ireland where the electorate know how to treat the politicians.

    I was in a graveyard in Wicklow where a whole line of headstones said Osborne.

  • Options
    SeanT said:

    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
    My daughter is off to work in Kenya again later this month.

    She is taking a suitcase full of easter eggs for her Kenyan colleagues.

    Surely they will melt?
    It's surprisingly cold, at least at night, in much of Kenya. A country of highlands. I spent 3 days in the glorious Ol Pejeta Conservancy, at about 6000 feet. Days were were long, hot and sunny, and splendid, but in the night it went down to about 8C, if not lower.

    No mosquitoes. Wildlife everywhere. Edenic.
    I was amazed to find out how much of Kenya is near uninhabited semi-desert.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    SeanT said:

    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
    My daughter is off to work in Kenya again later this month.

    She is taking a suitcase full of easter eggs for her Kenyan colleagues.

    Surely they will melt?
    It's surprisingly cold, at least at night, in much of Kenya. A country of highlands. I spent 3 days in the glorious Ol Pejeta Conservancy, at about 6000 feet. Days were were long, hot and sunny, and splendid, but in the night it went down to about 8C, if not lower.

    No mosquitoes. Wildlife everywhere. Edenic.
    I was amazed to find out how much of Kenya is near uninhabited semi-desert.
    Lincolnshire's the same - it borders South Yorkshire
  • Options

    Wanderer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?

    Took Middlesbrough out of Yorkshire and sacked the vile racist Enoch Powell.
    Took us into the EEC. Anyone voting Remain presumably thinks that was a good thing. (Notwithstanding those people contorting themselves into "it's horrible that we're in but we mustn't leave" positions.)
    ... As soon as it becomes clear that Cameron's deal is worthless and things start to get worse there are a lot of people on the Remain side who are going to feel very betrayed. Worse for Cameron they will feel guilty or having been taken for a ride.
    I don't really give much for his legacy. Heath will look like the epitome of honesty alongside Cameron.
    Sad but true. Trouble is he trusts the circle closest to him, today.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Wanderer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=V18ui3Rtjz4

    Trump by 13 lengths.
    Secretariat would be a better President then any of them.
    :+1:
  • Options
    Turns out the ban on Leave supporting ministers being told whats going on in their own departments never happened in the last referendum in 1975. Its entirely a Cameron precedent to skew the referendum.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/banning-leave-ministers-from-getting-civil-service-support-is-both-wrong-and-dangerous.html
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    He's already got an amazing legacy.

    Kept Scotland in the union for a generation.

    Destroyed the Lib Dems, for whom past Tory leaders couldn't shift like a bad STD

    Gove improved education standards.

    IDS has launched excellent welfare reform

    Ozzy has unleashed a jobs miracle as part of a wider economic miracle

    Introduced same sex marriage.

    What a time to be a one nation Tory.

    He drove Labour mad and they elected Corbyn.
    'Kept Scotland in the union' - lets review that one on the 24th June, the tide is still running in favour of independence in the long term

    'Destroyed the Lib Dems' - small acorns but they're making a comeback in local government elections, and as Fianna Fail have shown in the past week that parties can bounce back quite quickly from major setbacks, so that's rather premature

    'Gove improved education standards' - it takes years for improvements / declines in standards to be felt

    'More jobs' - yes but at what cost to real wages and take home pay for most?

    To that you can add the increasing adverse effects coming through of the common purpose agenda, the drive to curtail civil liberties with an increasing police state - witness the incident last week at the school in Hedge End, Hampshire where a 15 year old boy had police called to the school just for looking at UKIP and EDL websites. Add the total failure of dealing with paedophiles in public life, the secretive family courts, totally misguided energy policy driven by spurious global warming concerns, misguided foreign policy in Libya, Yemen, Syria, Russia and Turkey to name but a few places......and we haven't had the global sovereign debt crisis yet which will lay waste far more to their record over whatever time remains of the Conservatives being in power.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    FPT

    Oh and doesn't Havering have a Tory MP too? While Central London's Labour areas are europhile while Outer London's more Tory areas are more eurosceptic.

    Look at the South West too. Labour's best area in the South West is Bristol, the only area in the South West to be Europhile.

    Outside of Bristol, Somerset and North Somerset are very Eurosceptic - and unanimously Tory.

    Plymouth is a Tory city compared to Bristol, and guess what it's a Eurosceptic one.

    Havering is full of people who would have lived in the East End and voted Labour in the 1970s, but who find the likes of Livingstone and Corbyn completely repellent.

    Labour Left's idea of 'progress' and 'fairness' is completely toxic to them, paying far too little regard to notions of family, hard work and contribution. They are also proud of the country they come from and what their families did to build and protect it.
  • Options
    Black Wednesday was in hindsight the best thing to happen to the UK economy and sterling despite the PM's wishes.

    In hindsight a Leave victory could definitely be seen as one too. The difference is that the PM isn't ramping up interest rates to avoid it.
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    SeanT said:

    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
    Superb. Just amazing. The Masai Mara is divine. I can see why Englishmen raved about East Africa, especially the wilds of Kenya.
    Good stuff!

    Tanzania and Kilimanjaro gave me a taste for that region - didn't have chance to go to the Serengeti but would like to, although I was pleased to take in 4 days of Zanzibar - Stone Town with its fusion of African and Arabic influence plus the colonial legacy is quite unlike anywhere else I've been.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Black Wednesday was in hindsight the best thing to happen to the UK economy and sterling despite the PM's wishes.'

    'imbecility, imbecility' would be a good description of John Major's approach to the ERM and sterling in 1992.

    My favourite imbecility from back then is Major's ludicrous bluster about Sterling replacing the D-Mark as the key currency in the ERM.
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
    My daughter is off to work in Kenya again later this month.

    She is taking a suitcase full of easter eggs for her Kenyan colleagues.

    Surely they will melt?
    I can think of better presents to take there!
  • Options

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    "halfwits"
    TSE. Time to take a break please.
  • Options

    Wanderer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?

    Took Middlesbrough out of Yorkshire and sacked the vile racist Enoch Powell.
    Took us into the EEC. Anyone voting Remain presumably thinks that was a good thing. (Notwithstanding those people contorting themselves into "it's horrible that we're in but we mustn't leave" positions.)
    Thing is that this is the idiotic thing about the Remain camp.

    If you believe the polling then many if not the majority of those who are going to vote Remain don't think the EU is a good thing and probably wouldn't think that it was a good thing for us to join in the first place. It is at best a necessary evil to them.

    This is the problem that Cameron will have after a Remain win. As soon as it becomes clear that Cameron's deal is worthless and things start to get worse there are a lot of people on the Remain side who are going to feel very betrayed. Worse for Cameron they will feel guilty or having been taken for a ride.

    I don't really give much for his legacy. Heath will look like the epitome of honesty alongside Cameron.
    Most people see things in shades of grey and not just black and white.

    The EU has a great many flaws. It's also done a great many positive things. So the question is how do you balance that. The problem is the flaws keep ratcheting up and the positive parts seem to be banked and not increasing rapidly at all and could probably (but not definitely) be maintained now from the outside.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Whats causing the Democrat price to collapse ?

    Ohio and Florida polling is quite close at this stage.
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited February 2016
    runnymede said:

    'Black Wednesday was in hindsight the best thing to happen to the UK economy and sterling despite the PM's wishes.'
    'imbecility, imbecility' would be a good description of John Major's approach to the ERM and sterling in 1992.
    My favourite imbecility from back then is Major's ludicrous bluster about Sterling replacing the D-Mark as the key currency in the ERM.

    The problem was that it should have taken down the Conservative europhiles with it for following that stupid idea of the EU. We should have seen the end of Major, Clarke and Heseltine along with Lamont (who at least later got smart).
  • Options
    chestnut said:

    FPT

    Oh and doesn't Havering have a Tory MP too? While Central London's Labour areas are europhile while Outer London's more Tory areas are more eurosceptic.

    Look at the South West too. Labour's best area in the South West is Bristol, the only area in the South West to be Europhile.

    Outside of Bristol, Somerset and North Somerset are very Eurosceptic - and unanimously Tory.

    Plymouth is a Tory city compared to Bristol, and guess what it's a Eurosceptic one.

    Havering is full of people who would have lived in the East End and voted Labour in the 1970s, but who find the likes of Livingstone and Corbyn completely repellent.

    Labour Left's idea of 'progress' and 'fairness' is completely toxic to them, paying far too little regard to notions of family, hard work and contribution. They are also proud of the country they come from and what their families did to build and protect it.
    That absolutely makes sense to me and that's the kind of WWC voter that needs to be targeted. Not the "daytime drinking underclass" who don't bother to vote.

    My view of fairness certainly includes working hard not hardly working and that's the difference now between left and right it seems.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    chestnut said:

    FPT

    Oh and doesn't Havering have a Tory MP too? While Central London's Labour areas are europhile while Outer London's more Tory areas are more eurosceptic.

    Look at the South West too. Labour's best area in the South West is Bristol, the only area in the South West to be Europhile.

    Outside of Bristol, Somerset and North Somerset are very Eurosceptic - and unanimously Tory.

    Plymouth is a Tory city compared to Bristol, and guess what it's a Eurosceptic one.

    Havering is full of people who would have lived in the East End and voted Labour in the 1970s, but who find the likes of Livingstone and Corbyn completely repellent.

    Labour Left's idea of 'progress' and 'fairness' is completely toxic to them, paying far too little regard to notions of family, hard work and contribution. They are also proud of the country they come from and what their families did to build and protect it.
    That's pretty much spot on, do you live here too???
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
    My daughter is off to work in Kenya again later this month.

    She is taking a suitcase full of easter eggs for her Kenyan colleagues.

    Surely they will melt?
    It's surprisingly cold, at least at night, in much of Kenya. A country of highlands. I spent 3 days in the glorious Ol Pejeta Conservancy, at about 6000 feet. Days were were long, hot and sunny, and splendid, but in the night it went down to about 8C, if not lower.

    No mosquitoes. Wildlife everywhere. Edenic.
    I was amazed to find out how much of Kenya is near uninhabited semi-desert.
    Isn't it? The north is just empty. And spellbinding. My big new ambition is to go back and tour the Lake Turkana area. Where mankind was born.

    In sad contrast Nairobi is just horrible. Houses in the suburbs with ten feet fences, then razor wire, then electric fencing on top. Hideous crime.
    Johannesburg is the same.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    The problem was that it should have taken down the Conservative europhiles with it for following that stupid idea of the EU

    The bad smell keeps hanging around, unfortunately
  • Options

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    "halfwits"
    TSE. Time to take a break please.
    Truth hurts still.
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    Wanderer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can someone list Ted Heath's accomplishments :) ?

    Took Middlesbrough out of Yorkshire and sacked the vile racist Enoch Powell.
    Took us into the EEC. Anyone voting Remain presumably thinks that was a good thing. (Notwithstanding those people contorting themselves into "it's horrible that we're in but we mustn't leave" positions.)
    Thing is that this is the idiotic thing about the Remain camp.

    If you believe the polling then many if not the majority of those who are going to vote Remain don't think the EU is a good thing and probably wouldn't think that it was a good thing for us to join in the first place. It is at best a necessary evil to them.

    This is the problem that Cameron will have after a Remain win. As soon as it becomes clear that Cameron's deal is worthless and things start to get worse there are a lot of people on the Remain side who are going to feel very betrayed. Worse for Cameron they will feel guilty or having been taken for a ride.

    I don't really give much for his legacy. Heath will look like the epitome of honesty alongside Cameron.
    Most people see things in shades of grey and not just black and white.

    The EU has a great many flaws. It's also done a great many positive things. So the question is how do you balance that. The problem is the flaws keep ratcheting up and the positive parts seem to be banked and not increasing rapidly at all and could probably (but not definitely) be maintained now from the outside.
    Besides the Euro, which as I have argued many times before has a fundamental design flaw of non-consolidated sovereign debt within the euro area, there is the following flaw with the whole EU project - namely that no one you ask within the EU regards themselves first and foremost as a citizen of the EU - we're French, German, Italian, British, Dutch etc first - as I see it the whole yearning for a sense of identity, witness the nationalism in Scotland, Catalonia, the Basque region, Brittany, regions of Italy including Venice, Flemish nationalists etc is all interlinked as a reaction against the desire to harmonise and regulate anything and everything in the EU area. That's not suddenly going to change as a result of European history, going against the grain of what the wider public wishes only stores up resentment and future troubles.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Whats causing the Democrat price to collapse ?

    Ohio and Florida polling is quite close at this stage.

    It's looking like the market has decided it's going to be a Trump/Hillary contest.

    2/1 : 1/2

    I've laid some Hillary @ 1.61, even though I expect that price to hold or shorten a bit more over the next 48 hrs.

    The value is still on trump @ 3/1.

  • Options

    Turns out the ban on Leave supporting ministers being told whats going on in their own departments never happened in the last referendum in 1975. Its entirely a Cameron precedent to skew the referendum.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/banning-leave-ministers-from-getting-civil-service-support-is-both-wrong-and-dangerous.html

    But is Bernard Jenkin able to take apart Heywood? Unfortunately people such as Oliver Dowden and Tom Tugendhat are europhile Conservatives on that committee.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,123
    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
    Superb. Just amazing. The Masai Mara is divine. I can see why Englishmen raved about East Africa, especially the wilds of Kenya.
    Good stuff!

    Tanzania and Kilimanjaro gave me a taste for that region - didn't have chance to go to the Serengeti but would like to, although I was pleased to take in 4 days of Zanzibar - Stone Town with its fusion of African and Arabic influence plus the colonial legacy is quite unlike anywhere else I've been.
    Go to the Ngorongoro Crater. Probably the last giant tuskers in Africa. Plus you can go to Olduvai Gorge from there too.

    Go back to your roots. Everybody's roots....
  • Options

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    He's already got an amazing legacy.

    Kept Scotland in the union for a generation.

    Destroyed the Lib Dems, for whom past Tory leaders couldn't shift like a bad STD

    Gove improved education standards.

    IDS has launched excellent welfare reform

    Ozzy has unleashed a jobs miracle as part of a wider economic miracle

    Introduced same sex marriage.

    What a time to be a one nation Tory.
    His legacy will be this dreadful referendum, and his lies thereto. It will overshadow everything else, the way Iraq overshadowed Blair. No one remembers anything else Blair did (and some of it was good, as I must reluctantly admit) they remember the electric issue of the day, which poisons Labour even now. Arguably Corbyn's election is a direct result of Labour guilt over Iraq.

    Cameron hasn't done anything spectacularly good which might counterweight this awful EU shit.

    Remember we are only one week into this campaign and Tories are already talking about deposing him. This will only get worse. He will win his referendum with the support of Labourites, the same way Blair got his Iraq vote through, with the help of Tories, the historical result will be the same.
    In 2012/13 Nadine Dorries predicted Dave would be facing a leadership election that year.

    Dave always needed Lab, Lib Dem et al support to win the referendum.

    The Tories polled 37% last year. To win a majority you need over 50%.

    I know you don't understand politics that well, so stop talking about the EU referendum, you're embrassing yourself.

    So if this Dave's Iraq, how many Brits will die and how many Iraqis will die?

    Have you started talking hyperbole pills instead of your viagra?
    You seem oddly unnerved.
    Hah, I'm the antithesis of unnerved.

    I'm really looking forward to editing PB during the final stages of the referendum.
    I will be crapping my pants around then.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990

    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
    My daughter is off to work in Kenya again later this month.

    She is taking a suitcase full of easter eggs for her Kenyan colleagues.

    Surely they will melt?
    Depends how long they'll be in transit in Kenya. Plane will be OK, but after that depends on outside temperature.
    We take chocolate to Thailand, and it's OK IF we can get it into a 'fridge quickly after we land. We're OK because after we collect our cases we're max. an hour from where we're going.
    Good idea to keep it in the 'fridge before packing too.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Sooner rather than later Trump endorsements by elected officials will stop being news:

    http://www.knoxnews.com/news/politics/us-rep-desjarlais-casts-ballot-for-trump-during-early-voting-2ced5b73-76f2-7bac-e053-0100007fd265-370524041.html

    "U.S. Rep. Scott DesJarlais on Monday became the first member of Tennessee's congressional delegation to say he is supporting Donald Trump for president."

    That's the 3rd representative for Trump.
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    hunchman said:

    Cameron's a ruthless bastard, Boris received an appetising hors d'oeuvre last week.

    Huzzah for another AV thread.

    Cameron no longer needs friends in the Conservative party - political or personal. What he wants is a legacy.

    He's already got an amazing legacy.

    Kept Scotland in the union for a generation.

    Destroyed the Lib Dems, for whom past Tory leaders couldn't shift like a bad STD

    Gove improved education standards.

    IDS has launched excellent welfare reform

    Ozzy has unleashed a jobs miracle as part of a wider economic miracle

    Introduced same sex marriage.

    What a time to be a one nation Tory.

    He drove Labour mad and they elected Corbyn.
    'Kept Scotland in the union' - lets review that one on the 24th June, the tide is still running in favour of independence in the long term

    'Destroyed the Lib Dems' - small acorns but they're making a comeback in local government elections, and as Fianna Fail have shown in the past week that parties can bounce back quite quickly from major setbacks, so that's rather premature

    'Gove improved education standards' - it takes years for improvements / declines in standards to be felt

    'More jobs' - yes but at what cost to real wages and take home pay for most?

    To that you can add the increasing adverse effects coming through of the common purpose agenda, .....
    Stop Right There !!
    '...common purpose agenda...'

    Danger Danger Danger. Loony toon nutjob alert!!!
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    Picked up 'New Day' today (free) and it seemed very light weight and trying to provide balanced views but does anyone seriously think it will succeed at 50p daily charge and no internet presence. Someone has money to burn
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    I will see you good folk on June 24th. There's too much repetition mixed with equal parts bile and tribalism for me to enjoy the site at present!
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    edited February 2016

    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    Why not shut the F up before we examine your pb record in the past. One word.

    tim.
    Did you have a good time in Kenya?
    My daughter is off to work in Kenya again later this month.

    She is taking a suitcase full of easter eggs for her Kenyan colleagues.

    Surely they will melt?
    Depends how long they'll be in transit in Kenya. Plane will be OK, but after that depends on outside temperature.
    We take chocolate to Thailand, and it's OK IF we can get it into a 'fridge quickly after we land. We're OK because after we collect our cases we're max. an hour from where we're going.
    Good idea to keep it in the 'fridge before packing too.
    She says why the hell you discussing my eggs oh there.

    Apparently lands at 9pm and 40 mins airport to ftidge

    "Case closed" Whoops
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,123
    edited February 2016

    Picked up 'New Day' today (free) and it seemed very light weight and trying to provide balanced views but does anyone seriously think it will succeed at 50p daily charge and no internet presence. Someone has money to burn

    I'm looking forward to the Martin Day, given out for free on 9th May....
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    SeanT said:

    The loyalist PB Tories are behaving very strangely, these past days.

    To be honest we're having to deal with some real nonsense from some halfwits who haven't learned the lessons from 1992 to 2005 nor have they reconciled themselves with Dave winning a majority in 2015
    I was interested in him from 2003, backed Change2Win right at the start, and voted for DC in 2005. I was a big fan (and still am) of the Big Society, and his domestic public services reform programme, and still think he's a huge electoral asset to the Conservative Party.

    But, on the EU, time and again I feel he's badly let me down.
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Just been reading a great thread on Facebook! Loads of left wing headers ranting that the BBC shoukd be shutdown for being too right wing. One contributor said, without a hint of irony "I get my news from RT now, because the BBC is just a government mouthpiece"...

    I love people.
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    Full steam ahead says Merkel.....

    'I'll do my damned duty on refugees,' says Merkel as it emerges nine out of ten Germans want limits on migrants coming to country

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3469535/I-ll-damned-duty-refugees-says-Merkel-emerges-nine-ten-Germans-want-limits-migrants-coming-country.html
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