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Almost all manufactured products made almost anywhere in the world are made to comply with US, EU and - soon - Chinese regulations. Simply, given how expensive changing production lines is, it's easier to build products that comply with all the major regulations. It's why any consumer electronics you buy will have both an FCC (the US), CE (EU) and quite possibly a UL (US) stamp too.Scott_P said:
If it wants to sell anything in the EU, the products have to comply with EU regs they can't write.Philip_Thompson said:Norway implements less than 10% of the EU's regulations (it isn't even compelled to do that much) and chooses for itself on everything else. So how is that resigning sovereignty?
We sell quite a lot of stuff to the EU...
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Don't worry, Obama is holding them back until the time is right for Biden. /tinfoilhatPulpstar said:I could do with the White House blocking the FBI for the next fortnight tbh ^^;
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Right, and how much "sovereignty" do we get by complying?rcs1000 said:Almost all manufactured products made almost anywhere in the world are made to comply with US, EU and - soon - Chinese regulations.
None. The "more sovereignty" argument is total bollocks.0 -
If we vote Leave there's a good chance Cameron will stand down, the Conservatives will elect a new leader who becomes PM. The chances of that govt deporting migrants is zero.Philip_Thompson said:
If Cameron loses a campaign based on anti migrant talk then he'll have to be replaced by a hardliner who is anti migrant.blackburn63 said:
That's right, you're not voting for any bunch.Philip_Thompson said:
It's what I see quite regularly from BNP, UKIP and GO supporters. I'm not voting for any of that bunch.blackburn63 said:
Getting rid of migrants?Philip_Thompson said:
Both. If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants and leaving the EEA altogether to facilitate that then I will not just vote but possibly campaign against that. If that nastiness wins it will harm the country.HurstLlama said:I am struggling trying to understand your position Mr. Thompson. Are you saying that you will vote based on the people or on the issues?
If this is a referendum on regaining sovereignty whole keeping European free trade then I am quite pleased with that.
Get a grip man ffs
On June 24th the bunch will be conservatives.
If Cameron loses a campaign based on pro sovereignty talk then he'll have to be replaced by someone who is probably sovereignty.
If you don't see the difference between those I don't know how much clearer it can be made.
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Under NAFTA rules, you aren't allowed to use local certification as a 'trade barrier'. This has had the consequence of basically meaning that the Mexican and Canadian certification bodies have ceased to have any influence whatsoever.Bob__Sykes said:
But WOULD we adopt our own measures? Your small business might only trade domestically, but thousands of others will trade with the EU. The demand for UK law to coincide with EU standards would be deafening. And even if it wasn't, companies would mostly choose to adopt EU standards for ease and convenience. And anything imported to the UK from the EU would be of a common EU standard, so our consumers would continue to be used to products meeting EU standards.Philip_Thompson said:
If we want to sell anything to the USA, the products have to comply with USA regs we can't write.Scott_P said:
If it wants to sell anything in the EU, the products have to comply with EU regs they can't write.Philip_Thompson said:Norway implements less than 10% of the EU's regulations (it isn't even compelled to do that much) and chooses for itself on everything else. So how is that resigning sovereignty?
We sell quite a lot of stuff to the EU...
I run a small business that does no international trade. Yet I need to observe a whole swathe of European regulations that have nothing to do with trade. If we were in the EEA we could decide on those laws ourselves.0 -
I agree with your points.Philip_Thompson said:
If Cameron loses a campaign based on anti migrant talk then he'll have to be replaced by a hardliner who is anti migrant.blackburn63 said:
That's right, you're not voting for any bunch.Philip_Thompson said:
It's what I see quite regularly from BNP, UKIP and GO supporters. I'm not voting for any of that bunch.blackburn63 said:
Getting rid of migrants?Philip_Thompson said:
Both. If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants and leaving the EEA altogether to facilitate that then I will not just vote but possibly campaign against that. If that nastiness wins it will harm the country.HurstLlama said:I am struggling trying to understand your position Mr. Thompson. Are you saying that you will vote based on the people or on the issues?
If this is a referendum on regaining sovereignty whole keeping European free trade then I am quite pleased with that.
Get a grip man ffs
On June 24th the bunch will be conservatives.
If Cameron loses a campaign based on pro sovereignty talk then he'll have to be replaced by someone who is probably sovereignty.
If you don't see the difference between those I don't know how much clearer it can be made.0 -
PMQs could be interesting tomorrow - perhaps more green visible behind Cam than usual ?
Good time for Jezza to have a good day if he's any sense.0 -
The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.Scott_P said:
If it wants to sell anything in the EU, the products have to comply with EU regs they can't write.Philip_Thompson said:Norway implements less than 10% of the EU's regulations (it isn't even compelled to do that much) and chooses for itself on everything else. So how is that resigning sovereignty?
We sell quite a lot of stuff to the EU...
The U.K. will hold the whip hand in negotiations with the EU post-liberation.0 -
I'm talking about thing like Labour laws. The Working Time Directive etcBob__Sykes said:
But WOULD we adopt our own measures? Your small business might only trade domestically, but thousands of others will trade with the EU. The demand for UK law to coincide with EU standards would be deafening. And even if it wasn't, companies would mostly choose to adopt EU standards for ease and convenience. And anything imported to the UK from the EU would be of a common EU standard, so our consumers would continue to be used to products meeting EU standards.Philip_Thompson said:
If we want to sell anything to the USA, the products have to comply with USA regs we can't write.Scott_P said:
If it wants to sell anything in the EU, the products have to comply with EU regs they can't write.Philip_Thompson said:Norway implements less than 10% of the EU's regulations (it isn't even compelled to do that much) and chooses for itself on everything else. So how is that resigning sovereignty?
We sell quite a lot of stuff to the EU...
I run a small business that does no international trade. Yet I need to observe a whole swathe of European regulations that have nothing to do with trade. If we were in the EEA we could decide on those laws ourselves.
These have bugger all to do with international trade and should not be in the EU's remit and as far as I know are not in the EEA's remit.
As others have said product standards are largely international anyway so would be met whether in the EU, in the EEA or Out of everything.0 -
No, they really don'tMonikerDiCanio said:The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12169049/Jeremy-Corbyn-is-completely-irrelevant-to-the-EU-referendum-and-still-he-screws-it-up.html
Then, as day turned into night and I was about to join the rest of the country in forgetting all about Jeremy Corbyn, I stumbled across an article he’d written for the Observer. One of his staff had clearly also recognised his EU response was cutting through like a cold knife through titanium, and so given it another shove.
It was essentially the same “Europe’s rubbish, we must remain in Europe” line, until I reached the passage dealing with the new curbs on migrants’ benefits. “The evidence suggests that Cameron’s much-heralded 'emergency brake' on in-work migrants’ benefits will do nothing to cut inward migration to Britain,” he wrote. “Nor will it put a penny in the pockets of British workers. But there are dangers it could drive down pay rates still further as migrant workers take second jobs to make up for lower incomes”.0 -
So companies that sell stuff to the EU can continue as normal and companies that don't can do without all of the stupid regulations. The same is true for any export though, and in reality any company exporting finished goods makes them for global use. You don't run different production lines for exports to different countries, they are all the same and you'll notice that most products are certified for use in more than one region. My current phone isn't officially on sale anywhere in the EU and yet it is certified for use here.Scott_P said:
If it wants to sell anything in the EU, the products have to comply with EU regs they can't write.Philip_Thompson said:Norway implements less than 10% of the EU's regulations (it isn't even compelled to do that much) and chooses for itself on everything else. So how is that resigning sovereignty?
We sell quite a lot of stuff to the EU...
Anyway, I'm sure you will rationalise this into something completely different and pretend that an EEA style solution will leave us at a disadvantage.0 -
We have a trade surplus with the EU ?Scott_P said:
No, they really don'tMonikerDiCanio said:The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
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Yes, they really do, we buy more than we sell to the EU.Scott_P said:
No, they really don'tMonikerDiCanio said:The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
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As a backbencher he has as much say in the referendum as you and me. His role was to vote for the referendum to happen.blackburn63 said:
Eh?ThreeQuidder said:
So long as he voted to hold the referendum, it really doesn't matter.blackburn63 said:
You are correct.Bob__Sykes said:
Why?Pulpstar said:
Hmm...blackburn63 said:
I shared a platform with him on several occasions pre GE, he always said he was for Out, I said he'd go along with what Cameron said.Plato_Says said:Sam Coates
New: Dover MP Charlie Elphick for remain - on grounds of borders being safer
That's manna from heaven for UKIP in Dover !
Why does it matter what any MP's view is on the EU now we're having a referendum in June?
The people are deciding this one now, not the politicians.
My point about this MP is pre GE, campaigning in Dover, he was a committed Outer.
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The chance of the new government imposing visa restrictions on new migrants and other European nations doing the same is not zero. It is a lot higher if that is the campaign argument that wins the referendum.blackburn63 said:
If we vote Leave there's a good chance Cameron will stand down, the Conservatives will elect a new leader who becomes PM. The chances of that govt deporting migrants is zero.Philip_Thompson said:
If Cameron loses a campaign based on anti migrant talk then he'll have to be replaced by a hardliner who is anti migrant.blackburn63 said:
That's right, you're not voting for any bunch.Philip_Thompson said:
It's what I see quite regularly from BNP, UKIP and GO supporters. I'm not voting for any of that bunch.blackburn63 said:
Getting rid of migrants?Philip_Thompson said:
Both. If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants and leaving the EEA altogether to facilitate that then I will not just vote but possibly campaign against that. If that nastiness wins it will harm the country.HurstLlama said:I am struggling trying to understand your position Mr. Thompson. Are you saying that you will vote based on the people or on the issues?
If this is a referendum on regaining sovereignty whole keeping European free trade then I am quite pleased with that.
Get a grip man ffs
On June 24th the bunch will be conservatives.
If Cameron loses a campaign based on pro sovereignty talk then he'll have to be replaced by someone who is probably sovereignty.
If you don't see the difference between those I don't know how much clearer it can be made.0 -
It is no more a leap in the dark than staying in. Unfortunately for many who just want things to stay the same as they are now that is basically the one option that is not on the table.Bob__Sykes said:
Problem is this isn't a stated option on the ballot paper. So Leave is, on any analysis, a leap in the dark in terms of where we end up afterwards - we'd end up with one option, and I'd hope a British Government and civil service would find the best option for Britain, but nobody can assert that because the Swiss have a particular arrangement with the EU/EEA which seems attractive, that we could do too.HurstLlama said:
Mr. Tyndall, as you are no doubt aware the EEA is a deal between the EU and three of the four members of the EFTA - Switzerland has negotiated it own deal. Given the size of the UK economy I would expect us to follow the Swiss route rather than accept an off the peg solution designed fro much smaller countries.
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Judging by what you feed Thomas, he is quite some negotiator!! Spoilt that cat is. I don't get a dinner as nice as he does. And nor do my cats, though they try their very best.HurstLlama said:
My cat is a better at negotiation than Cameron, so the bar is quite low. Not that that will necessarily preclude the Conservative Party from choosing a leader who can't jump over it. The pool of available talent isn't very deep or wide.Pulpstar said:
Hopefully the next PM can negotiate a damned sight better than Dave.HurstLlama said:
Mr. Tyndall, as you are no doubt aware the EEA is a deal between the EU and three of the four members of the EFTA - Switzerland has negotiated it own deal. Given the size of the UK economy I would expect us to follow the Swiss route rather than accept an off the peg solution designed fro much smaller countries.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think everything you have said there is accurate. I would add that the EFTA countries in the EEA have far more input into the single market regulations than Flightpath claims.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm probably Free Movement. So that continuing if we go EEA/EFTA is a good thing not a bad thing.
The pros that have convinced me that switching is better are signing new trade deals and losing a lot of regulations. It would not be miraculous to sign new trade deals, other nations have managed it. The difference is that in the EU we negotiate to the lowest common denominator so if the French want to protect their farmers from Kiwi farmers then free trade with New Zealand is impossible etc - if we go by ourselves we don't need to worry about lowest common denominator. Plus as the world's fifth biggest economy we are a good market to trade with.
As for regulations apparently according to Gove and Hannan the EFTA nations implement less than 10% of EU regulations and even those are typically global standards that would be implemented anyway. So we lose stuff we don't need.
I agree that the crude anti immigration notions don't get my vote which is why a Grassroots Out or UKIP led leave campaign will not get my vote.
Personally I feel that for anyone not overly concerned with migration as an issue in the debate, EEA membership is by far the best solution compared to continued EU membership or complete withdrawal.
....
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£120bn reasons you are wrong.Scott_P said:
No, they really don'tMonikerDiCanio said:The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
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As part of this agreement with China, they will have obviously asked us to take unlimited numbers of their citizens, and demanded a final say over banking regulation. Or not.Scott_P said:
Right, and how much "sovereignty" do we get by complying?rcs1000 said:Almost all manufactured products made almost anywhere in the world are made to comply with US, EU and - soon - Chinese regulations.
None. The "more sovereignty" argument is total bollocks.0 -
Go to the Bruges Group website and check his voting record on EU.ThreeQuidder said:
As a backbencher he has as much say in the referendum as you and me. His role was to vote for the referendum to happen.blackburn63 said:
Eh?ThreeQuidder said:
So long as he voted to hold the referendum, it really doesn't matter.blackburn63 said:
You are correct.Bob__Sykes said:
Why?Pulpstar said:
Hmm...blackburn63 said:
I shared a platform with him on several occasions pre GE, he always said he was for Out, I said he'd go along with what Cameron said.Plato_Says said:Sam Coates
New: Dover MP Charlie Elphick for remain - on grounds of borders being safer
That's manna from heaven for UKIP in Dover !
Why does it matter what any MP's view is on the EU now we're having a referendum in June?
The people are deciding this one now, not the politicians.
My point about this MP is pre GE, campaigning in Dover, he was a committed Outer.
In front of hundreds (several hustings) he sat alongside me saying he was a committed Outer. Draw your own conclusions.
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Scott_P said:
What % of UK exports are to the EU?TGOHF said:We have a trade surplus with the EU ?
What % of EU exports are to the UK?
Which side can afford a trade war?
There are standard World Trade tariffs that apply in the mean time, and we would have a £20billion / year war chest to play with.
In reality a deal would be done, without all the extra EU baggage.
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Indeed. Had it been a straight In/Out referendum without Dave's botched negotiation I might actually have been more inclined to stay, but as it is we're in a worse position for EMU/City regulation than when we started, we've moved from an opt-out to a review system. That's not what I would call an improvement.Richard_Tyndall said:
It is no more a leap in the dark than staying in. Unfortunately for many who just want things to stay the same as they are now that is basically the one option that is not on the table.Bob__Sykes said:
Problem is this isn't a stated option on the ballot paper. So Leave is, on any analysis, a leap in the dark in terms of where we end up afterwards - we'd end up with one option, and I'd hope a British Government and civil service would find the best option for Britain, but nobody can assert that because the Swiss have a particular arrangement with the EU/EEA which seems attractive, that we could do too.HurstLlama said:
Mr. Tyndall, as you are no doubt aware the EEA is a deal between the EU and three of the four members of the EFTA - Switzerland has negotiated it own deal. Given the size of the UK economy I would expect us to follow the Swiss route rather than accept an off the peg solution designed fro much smaller countries.0 -
Yup, no guarantees are possible - from either side. Cameron's deal could be unpicked and rejected by the EU parliament after we vote to accept it. On the other hand the EU could decide to erect trade barriers if we decide to leave. The UK is the fifth largest economy in the world and runs a horrendous trade deficit with the EU. So no guarantees, you make your choice and vote accordingly.Bob__Sykes said:
Problem is this isn't a stated option on the ballot paper. So Leave is, on any analysis, a leap in the dark in terms of where we end up afterwards - we'd end up with one option, and I'd hope a British Government and civil service would find the best option for Britain, but nobody can assert that because the Swiss have a particular arrangement with the EU/EEA which seems attractive, that we could do too.HurstLlama said:
Mr. Tyndall, as you are no doubt aware the EEA is a deal between the EU and three of the four members of the EFTA - Switzerland has negotiated it own deal. Given the size of the UK economy I would expect us to follow the Swiss route rather than accept an off the peg solution designed fro much smaller countries.0 -
So you've backtracked on deporting migrants, thanks.Philip_Thompson said:
The chance of the new government imposing visa restrictions on new migrants and other European nations doing the same is not zero. It is a lot higher if that is the campaign argument that wins the referendum.blackburn63 said:
If we vote Leave there's a good chance Cameron will stand down, the Conservatives will elect a new leader who becomes PM. The chances of that govt deporting migrants is zero.Philip_Thompson said:
If Cameron loses a campaign based on anti migrant talk then he'll have to be replaced by a hardliner who is anti migrant.blackburn63 said:
That's right, you're not voting for any bunch.Philip_Thompson said:
It's what I see quite regularly from BNP, UKIP and GO supporters. I'm not voting for any of that bunch.blackburn63 said:
Getting rid of migrants?Philip_Thompson said:
Both. If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants and leaving the EEA altogether to facilitate that then I will not just vote but possibly campaign against that. If that nastiness wins it will harm the country.HurstLlama said:I am struggling trying to understand your position Mr. Thompson. Are you saying that you will vote based on the people or on the issues?
If this is a referendum on regaining sovereignty whole keeping European free trade then I am quite pleased with that.
Get a grip man ffs
On June 24th the bunch will be conservatives.
If Cameron loses a campaign based on pro sovereignty talk then he'll have to be replaced by someone who is probably sovereignty.
If you don't see the difference between those I don't know how much clearer it can be made.0 -
BTW the proposed LSE/Deutsche Borse merger is probably more relevant to the UK's position as a financial centre than the referendum (which I think will result in a Remain vote).
Mind you, for reasons that I'm sure @Charles will understand, I very much hope that DB's current Chief Executive does not take a prominent position in any merged entity.0 -
Can one of you please post a link to some numbers and end this tis - tisnt? Ta.MaxPB said:
£120bn reasons you are wrong.Scott_P said:
No, they really don'tMonikerDiCanio said:The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
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Scott seems to have a Gordon Brown esque view on whether £120Bn is a large sum or not.MaxPB said:
£120bn reasons you are wrong.Scott_P said:
No, they really don'tMonikerDiCanio said:The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
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I have. My conclusion is that it's utterly irrelevant.blackburn63 said:
Go to the Bruges Group website and check his voting record on EU.ThreeQuidder said:
As a backbencher he has as much say in the referendum as you and me. His role was to vote for the referendum to happen.blackburn63 said:
Eh?ThreeQuidder said:
So long as he voted to hold the referendum, it really doesn't matter.blackburn63 said:
You are correct.Bob__Sykes said:
Why?Pulpstar said:
Hmm...blackburn63 said:
I shared a platform with him on several occasions pre GE, he always said he was for Out, I said he'd go along with what Cameron said.Plato_Says said:Sam Coates
New: Dover MP Charlie Elphick for remain - on grounds of borders being safer
That's manna from heaven for UKIP in Dover !
Why does it matter what any MP's view is on the EU now we're having a referendum in June?
The people are deciding this one now, not the politicians.
My point about this MP is pre GE, campaigning in Dover, he was a committed Outer.
In front of hundreds (several hustings) he sat alongside me saying he was a committed Outer. Draw your own conclusions.
But I bet Clair Hawkins would have voted against having a referendum.0 -
A trade war?Scott_P said:
What % of UK exports are to the EU?TGOHF said:We have a trade surplus with the EU ?
What % of EU exports are to the UK?
Which side can afford a trade war?
Project Fear from the Remainers is really revving up now.
Phone the bloke in charge of BMW and ask if he'll put his prices up if we Leave.0 -
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I never meant deporting migrants so sorry if you misinterpreted what I wrote to mean that.blackburn63 said:
So you've backtracked on deporting migrants, thanks.Philip_Thompson said:
The chance of the new government imposing visa restrictions on new migrants and other European nations doing the same is not zero. It is a lot higher if that is the campaign argument that wins the referendum.blackburn63 said:
If we vote Leave there's a good chance Cameron will stand down, the Conservatives will elect a new leader who becomes PM. The chances of that govt deporting migrants is zero.Philip_Thompson said:
If Cameron loses a campaign based on anti migrant talk then he'll have to be replaced by a hardliner who is anti migrant.blackburn63 said:
That's right, you're not voting for any bunch.Philip_Thompson said:
It's what I see quite regularly from BNP, UKIP and GO supporters. I'm not voting for any of that bunch.blackburn63 said:
Getting rid of migrants?Philip_Thompson said:
Both. If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants and leaving the EEA altogether to facilitate that then I will not just vote but possibly campaign against that. If that nastiness wins it will harm the country.HurstLlama said:I am struggling trying to understand your position Mr. Thompson. Are you saying that you will vote based on the people or on the issues?
If this is a referendum on regaining sovereignty whole keeping European free trade then I am quite pleased with that.
Get a grip man ffs
On June 24th the bunch will be conservatives.
If Cameron loses a campaign based on pro sovereignty talk then he'll have to be replaced by someone who is probably sovereignty.
If you don't see the difference between those I don't know how much clearer it can be made.0 -
You've lost your mind.Scott_P said:
No, they really don'tMonikerDiCanio said:The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
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Why would you judge this by % rather than £ ?Scott_P said:
What % of UK exports are to the EU?TGOHF said:We have a trade surplus with the EU ?
What % of EU exports are to the UK?
Which side can afford a trade war?
In any case, we already have a cold trade war, in that lots of EU countries still put up significant barriers to the import of services. Post-Brexit, we could (though I doubt we would) push harder on this in any trade deal that maintained Germany's ability to sell us goods.0 -
Bma 3x48hr strikes.0
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I do not think for one minute the EU will stay the same. The leaders protested that David Cameron achieved too much when we know that the impending immigration crisis will see the EU implode and at that point a whole new settlement will be required. If we are not at the table we will have absolutely no influence on thatRichard_Tyndall said:
It is no more a leap in the dark than staying in. Unfortunately for many who just want things to stay the same as they are now that is basically the one option that is not on the table.Bob__Sykes said:
Problem is this isn't a stated option on the ballot paper. So Leave is, on any analysis, a leap in the dark in terms of where we end up afterwards - we'd end up with one option, and I'd hope a British Government and civil service would find the best option for Britain, but nobody can assert that because the Swiss have a particular arrangement with the EU/EEA which seems attractive, that we could do too.HurstLlama said:
Mr. Tyndall, as you are no doubt aware the EEA is a deal between the EU and three of the four members of the EFTA - Switzerland has negotiated it own deal. Given the size of the UK economy I would expect us to follow the Swiss route rather than accept an off the peg solution designed fro much smaller countries.0 -
Charlie voted against a referendum twice, I repeatedly reminded him.ThreeQuidder said:
I have. My conclusion is that it's utterly irrelevant.blackburn63 said:
Go to the Bruges Group website and check his voting record on EU.ThreeQuidder said:
As a backbencher he has as much say in the referendum as you and me. His role was to vote for the referendum to happen.blackburn63 said:
Eh?ThreeQuidder said:
So long as he voted to hold the referendum, it really doesn't matter.blackburn63 said:
You are correct.Bob__Sykes said:
Why?Pulpstar said:
Hmm...blackburn63 said:
I shared a platform with him on several occasions pre GE, he always said he was for Out, I said he'd go along with what Cameron said.Plato_Says said:Sam Coates
New: Dover MP Charlie Elphick for remain - on grounds of borders being safer
That's manna from heaven for UKIP in Dover !
Why does it matter what any MP's view is on the EU now we're having a referendum in June?
The people are deciding this one now, not the politicians.
My point about this MP is pre GE, campaigning in Dover, he was a committed Outer.
In front of hundreds (several hustings) he sat alongside me saying he was a committed Outer. Draw your own conclusions.
But I bet Clair Hawkins would have voted against having a referendum.
Clair would definitely have voted against it.0 -
Good afternoon on this bright and sun-EU day.taffys said:
As part of this agreement with China, they will have obviously asked us to take unlimited numbers of their citizens, and demanded a final say over banking regulation. Or not.Scott_P said:
Right, and how much "sovereignty" do we get by complying?rcs1000 said:Almost all manufactured products made almost anywhere in the world are made to comply with US, EU and - soon - Chinese regulations.
None. The "more sovereignty" argument is total bollocks.
So, taffys, a question: would you have the UK opt out of Basel III, if you had your way?0 -
exceedingly low targetTCPoliticalBetting said:Kezia aim for the election "Tories will not come second".
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https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/Documents/Webtbls_dec-cum_2015.xls (Warning, it's a download)ThreeQuidder said:
Can one of you please post a link to some numbers and end this tis - tisnt? Ta.MaxPB said:
£120bn reasons you are wrong.Scott_P said:
No, they really don'tMonikerDiCanio said:The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
It was £80bn officially last year, but that figure is heavily padded by re-exports as the value of our re-exports are much higher (finished goods) than the value of the re-imports (raw materials and parts).0 -
Because that's the figure that mattersTissue_Price said:Why would you judge this by % rather than £ ?
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WTOblackburn63 said:
A trade war?Scott_P said:
What % of UK exports are to the EU?TGOHF said:We have a trade surplus with the EU ?
What % of EU exports are to the UK?
Which side can afford a trade war?
Project Fear from the Remainers is really revving up now.
Phone the bloke in charge of BMW and ask if he'll put his prices up if we Leave.
It's hard to start a trade war these days. We seem to forget the other supra-national organisation that deals with global trade.
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He was pretty accurate on the Sindyref too!MarqueeMark said:
JackW (whisper it) is not infallible. I did gently suggest before the election he was too low on SNP seats, too high on LibDems.....foxinsoxuk said:
Newsnight last night had an interesting feature on the 75 referendum.GIN1138 said:
Would have been the other way around in the 1970's.MarkHopkins said:The difference between Tory and Labour MPs is rather marked:
Conservative
In 145
████████████████▌
Out 140
████████████████
Labour
In 220
█████████████████████████
Out 9
█
https://www.nojam.com/post/653
The 75 refernedum was the start of the split that kept Labour out of power for 18 years. Will that, ultimately, be Cameron and Osborne's legacy? A party divided, destroyed and ruined for a generation?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b071z4j5
But polls - schmoles, JackW has forecast for Remain by a clear margin.0 -
Well you wrotePhilip_Thompson said:
I never meant deporting migrants so sorry if you misinterpreted what I wrote to mean that.blackburn63 said:
So you've backtracked on deporting migrants, thanks.Philip_Thompson said:
The chance of the new government imposing visa restrictions on new migrants and other European nations doing the same is not zero. It is a lot higher if that is the campaign argument that wins the referendum.blackburn63 said:
If we vote Leave there's a good chance Cameron will stand down, the Conservatives will elect a new leader who becomes PM. The chances of that govt deporting migrants is zero.Philip_Thompson said:
If Cameron loses a campaign based on anti migrant talk then he'll have to be replaced by a hardliner who is anti migrant.blackburn63 said:
That's right, you're not voting for any bunch.Philip_Thompson said:
It's what I see quite regularly from BNP, UKIP and GO supporters. I'm not voting for any of that bunch.blackburn63 said:
Getting rid of migrants?Philip_Thompson said:
Both. If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants and leaving the EEA altogether to facilitate that then I will not just vote but possibly campaign against that. If that nastiness wins it will harm the country.HurstLlama said:I am struggling trying to understand your position Mr. Thompson. Are you saying that you will vote based on the people or on the issues?
If this is a referendum on regaining sovereignty whole keeping European free trade then I am quite pleased with that.
Get a grip man ffs
On June 24th the bunch will be conservatives.
If Cameron loses a campaign based on pro sovereignty talk then he'll have to be replaced by someone who is probably sovereignty.
If you don't see the difference between those I don't know how much clearer it can be made.
If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants
Hard to misinterpret that0 -
He explained today at Slough how he had traveled on a six year EU journey and had changed his views and was supportive of the EU. Anyone is entitled to change their views in the light of their experiencesblackburn63 said:
Go to the Bruges Group website and check his voting record on EU.ThreeQuidder said:
As a backbencher he has as much say in the referendum as you and me. His role was to vote for the referendum to happen.blackburn63 said:
Eh?ThreeQuidder said:
So long as he voted to hold the referendum, it really doesn't matter.blackburn63 said:
You are correct.Bob__Sykes said:
Why?Pulpstar said:
Hmm...blackburn63 said:
I shared a platform with him on several occasions pre GE, he always said he was for Out, I said he'd go along with what Cameron said.Plato_Says said:Sam Coates
New: Dover MP Charlie Elphick for remain - on grounds of borders being safer
That's manna from heaven for UKIP in Dover !
Why does it matter what any MP's view is on the EU now we're having a referendum in June?
The people are deciding this one now, not the politicians.
My point about this MP is pre GE, campaigning in Dover, he was a committed Outer.
In front of hundreds (several hustings) he sat alongside me saying he was a committed Outer. Draw your own conclusions.0 -
Though Obama promised to increase regulatory standards in NAFTA in his election campaign, and achieved this with signing of TPP.rcs1000 said:
Under NAFTA rules, you aren't allowed to use local certification as a 'trade barrier'. This has had the consequence of basically meaning that the Mexican and Canadian certification bodies have ceased to have any influence whatsoever.Bob__Sykes said:
But WOULD we adopt our own measures? Your small business might only trade domestically, but thousands of others will trade with the EU. The demand for UK law to coincide with EU standards would be deafening. And even if it wasn't, companies would mostly choose to adopt EU standards for ease and convenience. And anything imported to the UK from the EU would be of a common EU standard, so our consumers would continue to be used to products meeting EU standards.Philip_Thompson said:
If we want to sell anything to the USA, the products have to comply with USA regs we can't write.Scott_P said:
If it wants to sell anything in the EU, the products have to comply with EU regs they can't write.Philip_Thompson said:Norway implements less than 10% of the EU's regulations (it isn't even compelled to do that much) and chooses for itself on everything else. So how is that resigning sovereignty?
We sell quite a lot of stuff to the EU...
I run a small business that does no international trade. Yet I need to observe a whole swathe of European regulations that have nothing to do with trade. If we were in the EEA we could decide on those laws ourselves.0 -
The words loony and fruitcake simply don't cut it with gin1138logical_song said:
Cameron didn't want people 'banging on about Europe', hardly a committed Europhile. The 'most passionate lover of the EU we've ever had as Prime Minister' ?? What about Ted Heath? It's difficult to take what you say seriously when you come out with comments like that.GIN1138 said:
Boris hasn't spent years getting people to vote for him on the basis that he's one thing or the other.logical_song said:
And Boris, is he an opportunist too?Tykejohnno said:
Agree.GIN1138 said:
LOL! He's the Ted Heath of modern British politics. Though actually he's worse than Heath because at least Ted was honest about this EUPhillia unlike slimy Cameron.peter_from_putney said:Although having pretty much decided to vote LEAVE, I have to say that I was hugely impressed by David Cameron's terrific performance in the House of Commons yesterday ..... a real tour de force to be sure.
Answering dozens of very varied questions from all shades of political opinion he was totally in command of all the facts and figures.
It is difficult to think of any leader in modern times who has delivered such an impressive performance.
If and when he resigns as Prime Minister he will be a great loss to the HoC it has to be said, irrespective of one's personal political persuasion.
Dave is just an opportunist and a liar (I see today he has been lying that he was actually a eurosceptic when he was LOTO but in office he's "come to his senses" LOL) I should imagine the vast majority of the Conservative Party are wondering whatever they've done having this clown as their leader - They should have just given Ken Clarke the leadership years ago... At least he'd have won the Tories a good majority against Brown in 2010.
EU Referendum: How Boris Johnson Has Changed His Tune On Britain Remaining In The European Union
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/21/boris-johnson-eu-brexit-supports_n_9286400.html
I don't mind Cameron being a passionate and committed europhile. I resent the way he has lied for years and years and made out he's eurosceptic only to reveal himself now as probably the most passionate lover of the EU we've ever had as Prime Minister.
The nonsense about his "non reforms" doesn't help either. He is is taking the people he leads for fools and hoping he can get away with it.
0 -
Titter......
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/breaking-david-icke-backs-brexit/
Wonder what he thinks of the Lizard Line.......0 -
Goodness no!!!TOPPING said:
Good afternoon on this bright and sun-EU day.taffys said:
As part of this agreement with China, they will have obviously asked us to take unlimited numbers of their citizens, and demanded a final say over banking regulation. Or not.Scott_P said:
Right, and how much "sovereignty" do we get by complying?rcs1000 said:Almost all manufactured products made almost anywhere in the world are made to comply with US, EU and - soon - Chinese regulations.
None. The "more sovereignty" argument is total bollocks.
So, taffys, a question: would you have the UK opt out of Basel III, if you had your way?0 -
What was Charlie doing in Slough?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He explained today at Slough how he had traveled on a six year EU journey and had changed his views and was supportive of the EU. Anyone is entitled to change their views in the light of their experiencesblackburn63 said:
Go to the Bruges Group website and check his voting record on EU.ThreeQuidder said:
As a backbencher he has as much say in the referendum as you and me. His role was to vote for the referendum to happen.blackburn63 said:
Eh?ThreeQuidder said:
So long as he voted to hold the referendum, it really doesn't matter.blackburn63 said:
You are correct.Bob__Sykes said:
Why?Pulpstar said:
Hmm...blackburn63 said:
I shared a platform with him on several occasions pre GE, he always said he was for Out, I said he'd go along with what Cameron said.Plato_Says said:Sam Coates
New: Dover MP Charlie Elphick for remain - on grounds of borders being safer
That's manna from heaven for UKIP in Dover !
Why does it matter what any MP's view is on the EU now we're having a referendum in June?
The people are deciding this one now, not the politicians.
My point about this MP is pre GE, campaigning in Dover, he was a committed Outer.
In front of hundreds (several hustings) he sat alongside me saying he was a committed Outer. Draw your own conclusions.
Look, he voted AGAINST a referendum, stated publicly he was for Out, now campaigns for In.
That is some journey0 -
Maybe to you but the reality is millions of jobs in the EU depend on our consumption of their goods. The day we vote to leave will also be the day that the CEOs of BMW, Daimler and VW break down Mrs Merkel's door and demand a free trade deal with us.Scott_P said:
Because that's the figure that mattersTissue_Price said:Why would you judge this by % rather than £ ?
0 -
Yes putting up visa restrictions etc to get rid of migrants who would otherwise be coming into the country. Not to deport people who are already in.blackburn63 said:
Well you wrotePhilip_Thompson said:
I never meant deporting migrants so sorry if you misinterpreted what I wrote to mean that.blackburn63 said:
So you've backtracked on deporting migrants, thanks.Philip_Thompson said:
The chance of the new government imposing visa restrictions on new migrants and other European nations doing the same is not zero. It is a lot higher if that is the campaign argument that wins the referendum.blackburn63 said:
If we vote Leave there's a good chance Cameron will stand down, the Conservatives will elect a new leader who becomes PM. The chances of that govt deporting migrants is zero.Philip_Thompson said:
If Cameron loses a campaign based on anti migrant talk then he'll have to be replaced by a hardliner who is anti migrant.blackburn63 said:
That's right, you're not voting for any bunch.Philip_Thompson said:
It's what I see quite regularly from BNP, UKIP and GO supporters. I'm not voting for any of that bunch.blackburn63 said:
Getting rid of migrants?Philip_Thompson said:
Both. If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants and leaving the EEA altogether to facilitate that then I will not just vote but possibly campaign against that. If that nastiness wins it will harm the country.HurstLlama said:I am struggling trying to understand your position Mr. Thompson. Are you saying that you will vote based on the people or on the issues?
If this is a referendum on regaining sovereignty whole keeping European free trade then I am quite pleased with that.
Get a grip man ffs
On June 24th the bunch will be conservatives.
If Cameron loses a campaign based on pro sovereignty talk then he'll have to be replaced by someone who is probably sovereignty.
If you don't see the difference between those I don't know how much clearer it can be made.
If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants
Hard to misinterpret that0 -
Interesting article by Robert Reich:
"The End of the Establishment?"
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/02/23/the_end_of_the_establishment_129755.html0 -
Looks to me like he voted for it...blackburn63 said:
Charlie voted against a referendum twice, I repeatedly reminded him.ThreeQuidder said:
I have. My conclusion is that it's utterly irrelevant.blackburn63 said:
Go to the Bruges Group website and check his voting record on EU.ThreeQuidder said:
As a backbencher he has as much say in the referendum as you and me. His role was to vote for the referendum to happen.blackburn63 said:
Eh?ThreeQuidder said:
So long as he voted to hold the referendum, it really doesn't matter.blackburn63 said:
You are correct.Bob__Sykes said:
Why?Pulpstar said:
Hmm...blackburn63 said:
I shared a platform with him on several occasions pre GE, he always said he was for Out, I said he'd go along with what Cameron said.Plato_Says said:Sam Coates
New: Dover MP Charlie Elphick for remain - on grounds of borders being safer
That's manna from heaven for UKIP in Dover !
Why does it matter what any MP's view is on the EU now we're having a referendum in June?
The people are deciding this one now, not the politicians.
My point about this MP is pre GE, campaigning in Dover, he was a committed Outer.
In front of hundreds (several hustings) he sat alongside me saying he was a committed Outer. Draw your own conclusions.
But I bet Clair Hawkins would have voted against having a referendum.
Clair would definitely have voted against it.0 -
No, that's a very high bar. Cats are brilliant at negotiation, employing emotional blackmail, intimidation, or walking away from the deal, as they see fit. That's why they always win against mere humans.HurstLlama said:My cat is a better at negotiation than Cameron, so the bar is quite low.
0 -
Yes, they don't. I'll try again, and type slowly...TGOHF said:
MonikerDiCanio :
The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
Scott_P:
No, they really don't
What percentage of UK exports goes to the EU? Clue, it's a big number. We sell them lots of our stuff
What percentage of EU exports come to the UK? Clue, it's not a big number. They don't sell us lots of stuff
The EU, does not sell us a lot more to us than we do to them. We are a small EU customer. They are a huge UK customer.
Sorry if this is too complicated for some0 -
The talking down of Britain by the Remainians is quite startling.MaxPB said:
Maybe to you but the reality is millions of jobs in the EU depend on our consumption of their goods. The day we vote to leave will also be the day that the CEOs of BMW, Daimler and VW break down Mrs Merkel's door and demand a free trade deal with us.Scott_P said:
Because that's the figure that mattersTissue_Price said:Why would you judge this by % rather than £ ?
0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Was the one-off Survation poll that was accurate pre-2015 General Election online or by telephone?
I wonder if we'll see herding again.0 -
...unless they can get a better deal with China.MaxPB said:Maybe to you but the reality is millions of jobs in the EU depend on our consumption of their goods. The day we vote to leave will also be the day that the CEOs of BMW, Daimler and VW break down Mrs Merkel's door and demand a free trade deal with us.
That is why the relative numbers are more important than the absolute.
Are you really claiming the UK is BMW's largest market?0 -
Go to the Bruges Group website and check his voting record on EU.
In front of hundreds (several hustings) he sat alongside me saying he was a committed Outer. Draw your own conclusions.
He explained today at Slough how he had traveled on a six year EU journey and had changed his views and was supportive of the EU. Anyone is entitled to change their views in the light of their experiences
What was Charlie doing in Slough?
Look, he voted AGAINST a referendum, stated publicly he was for Out, now campaigns for In.
That is some journey
My mistake. I thought you were referring to DC0 -
And/but that is the only part of the single rulebook that we are opting in to (CRD-IV).taffys said:
Goodness no!!!TOPPING said:
Good afternoon on this bright and sun-EU day.taffys said:
As part of this agreement with China, they will have obviously asked us to take unlimited numbers of their citizens, and demanded a final say over banking regulation. Or not.Scott_P said:
Right, and how much "sovereignty" do we get by complying?rcs1000 said:Almost all manufactured products made almost anywhere in the world are made to comply with US, EU and - soon - Chinese regulations.
None. The "more sovereignty" argument is total bollocks.
So, taffys, a question: would you have the UK opt out of Basel III, if you had your way?
SSM/SRM we get an opt-out.
Now, I have not rejoined the debate today on all this partly because I think we had a good go at it yesterday, partly because I have a day job, and partly because I am marvelling at the decisive step out of Europe the LSE has just taken by its announced merger with, er, Deutsche Borse.
Suffice to say there is pre-existing and sensible shared banking regulation, via the Basel protocols, and nothing in the negotiated deal has changed that. If you want out of the EU you would still be stuck with CRD-IV.0 -
Richard_Nabavi said:
No, that's a very high bar. Cats are brilliant at negotiation, employing emotional blackmail, intimidation, or walking away from the deal, as they see fit. That's why they always win against mere humans.HurstLlama said:My cat is a better at negotiation than Cameron, so the bar is quite low.
True. But they're always suckers for being stroked behind the ears.
0 -
Yeah he did after the GE, look back to the last parliamentThreeQuidder said:
Looks to me like he voted for it...blackburn63 said:
Charlie voted against a referendum twice, I repeatedly reminded him.ThreeQuidder said:
I have. My conclusion is that it's utterly irrelevant.blackburn63 said:
Go to the Bruges Group website and check his voting record on EU.ThreeQuidder said:
As a backbencher he has as much say in the referendum as you and me. His role was to vote for the referendum to happen.blackburn63 said:
Eh?ThreeQuidder said:
So long as he voted to hold the referendum, it really doesn't matter.blackburn63 said:
You are correct.Bob__Sykes said:
Why?Pulpstar said:
Hmm...blackburn63 said:
I shared a platform with him on several occasions pre GE, he always said he was for Out, I said he'd go along with what Cameron said.Plato_Says said:Sam Coates
New: Dover MP Charlie Elphick for remain - on grounds of borders being safer
That's manna from heaven for UKIP in Dover !
Why does it matter what any MP's view is on the EU now we're having a referendum in June?
The people are deciding this one now, not the politicians.
My point about this MP is pre GE, campaigning in Dover, he was a committed Outer.
In front of hundreds (several hustings) he sat alongside me saying he was a committed Outer. Draw your own conclusions.
But I bet Clair Hawkins would have voted against having a referendum.
Clair would definitely have voted against it.0 -
In 2012 Romney won just 61% of the white electorate to get 50% of the vote. Trump could get a more Texas like 76% to win it, which in 2012 led to Romney winning Texas with 58%.NorfolkTilIDie said:Latinos were 14% of votes in 2014 election in Florida, a must win state for GOP.
http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/2015/03/31/official-voter-turnout-data-for-latinos-in-2014/
Probably more like 16% this year.
If 75% of the electorate are white, and Trump wins 66.6% of that, he wins by a landslide. An updated version of Nixon's southern strategy.0 -
Oh I see, getting rid of people that aren't here yetPhilip_Thompson said:
Yes putting up visa restrictions etc to get rid of migrants who would otherwise be coming into the country. Not to deport people who are already in.blackburn63 said:
Well you wrotePhilip_Thompson said:
I never meant deporting migrants so sorry if you misinterpreted what I wrote to mean that.blackburn63 said:
So you've backtracked on deporting migrants, thanks.Philip_Thompson said:
The chance of the new government imposing visa restrictions on new migrants and other European nations doing the same is not zero. It is a lot higher if that is the campaign argument that wins the referendum.blackburn63 said:
If we vote Leave there's a good chance Cameron will stand down, the Conservatives will elect a new leader who becomes PM. The chances of that govt deporting migrants is zero.Philip_Thompson said:
If Cameron loses a campaign based on anti migrant talk then he'll have to be replaced by a hardliner who is anti migrant.blackburn63 said:
That's right, you're not voting for any bunch.Philip_Thompson said:
It's what I see quite regularly from BNP, UKIP and GO supporters. I'm not voting for any of that bunch.blackburn63 said:
Getting rid of migrants?Philip_Thompson said:
Both. If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants and leaving the EEA altogether to facilitate that then I will not just vote but possibly campaign against that. If that nastiness wins it will harm the country.HurstLlama said:I am struggling trying to understand your position Mr. Thompson. Are you saying that you will vote based on the people or on the issues?
If this is a referendum on regaining sovereignty whole keeping European free trade then I am quite pleased with that.
Get a grip man ffs
On June 24th the bunch will be conservatives.
If Cameron loses a campaign based on pro sovereignty talk then he'll have to be replaced by someone who is probably sovereignty.
If you don't see the difference between those I don't know how much clearer it can be made.
If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants
Hard to misinterpret that0 -
Cats are French: stand offish, occasionally affectionate, elegant, ruthless, contemptuous of non-cats, lethal when they choose and with an enormous sense of entitlement.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, that's a very high bar. Cats are brilliant at negotiation, employing emotional blackmail, intimidation, or walking away from the deal, as they see fit. That's why they always win against mere humans.HurstLlama said:My cat is a better at negotiation than Cameron, so the bar is quite low.
No wonder Cameron didn't stand a chance. A cat will see off an enthusiastic Labrador with ease.
0 -
Yes, BMW are really going to walk away from Britain, where their sales are nearly 9% of the total market.Scott_P said:
...unless they can get a better deal with China.MaxPB said:Maybe to you but the reality is millions of jobs in the EU depend on our consumption of their goods. The day we vote to leave will also be the day that the CEOs of BMW, Daimler and VW break down Mrs Merkel's door and demand a free trade deal with us.
That is why the relative numbers are more important than the absolute.
Are you really claiming the UK is BMW's largest market?
Is someone paying you to post this garbage?0 -
Indeed. They have even persuaded us to cut unsightly holes in our own doors, so as to better facilitate their ability to snub us.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, that's a very high bar. Cats are brilliant at negotiation, employing emotional blackmail, intimidation, or walking away from the deal, as they see fit. That's why they always win against mere humans.HurstLlama said:My cat is a better at negotiation than Cameron, so the bar is quite low.
0 -
X
ScottP: Farage will not be in the debatesScott_P said:
The EU, does not sell us a lot more to us than we do to them. We are a small EU customer. They are a huge UK customer.TGOHF said:
MonikerDiCanio :
The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
Scott_P:
No, they really don't
Sorry if this is too complicated for some
isam: William Hill go 4/11 he isn't, 2/1 he is.. I'll have £100@9/4 with you he is
ScottP: What do you mean by 9/4? What do you mean by in the debates?
isam: I'll have £100 to win £225. And that he will be in one of the debates as a participant
ScottP: You're not being clear, I don't get it. You'll be thanking me when Farage isn't in the debates0 -
Believe in Britain!
Be LEAVE!0 -
This probably overstates Clinton by a fair way, but the "mountain" Sanders has to climb is:
Clinton 1990 vs
Sanders 1085 delegates / 3075 "regular" delegates.
It'll become more accurate as more polls roll in.
Does not include the "supers"0 -
Which is in our favour in the event of a Leave vote.Scott_P said:
Yes, they don't. I'll try again, and type slowly...TGOHF said:
MonikerDiCanio :
The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
Scott_P:
No, they really don't
What percentage of UK exports goes to the EU? Clue, it's a big number. We sell them lots of our stuff
What percentage of EU exports come to the UK? Clue, it's not a big number. They don't sell us lots of stuff
The EU, does not sell us a lot more to us than we do to them. We are a small EU customer. They are a huge UK customer.
Sorry if this is too complicated for some0 -
What does anything in the last Parliament have to do with election pledges made this election?blackburn63 said:
Yeah he did after the GE, look back to the last parliamentThreeQuidder said:Looks to me like he voted for it...
You do realise people don't have a Tardis and that election pledges made in a campaign for this Parliament are for the forthcoming Parliament not the last one.
So you're mad at a politician because he honoured his pledge in full but doesn't have a time machine?0 -
Yes.blackburn63 said:
Oh I see, getting rid of people that aren't here yetPhilip_Thompson said:
Yes putting up visa restrictions etc to get rid of migrants who would otherwise be coming into the country. Not to deport people who are already in.blackburn63 said:
Well you wrotePhilip_Thompson said:
I never meant deporting migrants so sorry if you misinterpreted what I wrote to mean that.blackburn63 said:
So you've backtracked on deporting migrants, thanks.Philip_Thompson said:
The chance of the new government imposing visa restrictions on new migrants and other European nations doing the same is not zero. It is a lot higher if that is the campaign argument that wins the referendum.blackburn63 said:
If we vote Leave there's a good chance Cameron will stand down, the Conservatives will elect a new leader who becomes PM. The chances of that govt deporting migrants is zero.Philip_Thompson said:
If Cameron loses a campaign based on anti migrant talk then he'll have to be replaced by a hardliner who is anti migrant.blackburn63 said:
That's right, you're not voting for any bunch.Philip_Thompson said:
It's what I see quite regularly from BNP, UKIP and GO supporters. I'm not voting for any of that bunch.blackburn63 said:
Getting rid of migrants?Philip_Thompson said:
Both. If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants and leaving the EEA altogether to facilitate that then I will not just vote but possibly campaign against that. If that nastiness wins it will harm the country.HurstLlama said:I am struggling trying to understand your position Mr. Thompson. Are you saying that you will vote based on the people or on the issues?
If this is a referendum on regaining sovereignty whole keeping European free trade then I am quite pleased with that.
Get a grip man ffs
On June 24th the bunch will be conservatives.
If Cameron loses a campaign based on pro sovereignty talk then he'll have to be replaced by someone who is probably sovereignty.
If you don't see the difference between those I don't know how much clearer it can be made.
If this is a proxy referendum on getting rid of migrants
Hard to misinterpret that0 -
This argument over BMW walking away / not walking we away etc is very tiresome. Nobody will want to surrender a profitable market, so stay in or come out arrangements will be made. BMW will still.flog us cars & British business will still have to make stuff to eu regs.
It really comes down to are we better with a tiny voice in eu and have to put up with the ratcheting of non-trade related laws vs uncertainty of coming out no voice in shaping eu regs but not having to take on all their bs.
Neither option is really what people want, but the best thing for UK is not an option nor will it ever.
0 -
Mr Meeks claimed recently there was a Leave plant on here, I'm outing him as Scott_P0
-
The EU accounts for around 35% of our exports once re-exports are stripped out.Scott_P said:
Yes, they don't. I'll try again, and type slowly...TGOHF said:
MonikerDiCanio :
The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
Scott_P:
No, they really don't
What percentage of UK exports goes to the EU? Clue, it's a big number. We sell them lots of our stuff
What percentage of EU exports come to the UK? Clue, it's not a big number. They don't sell us lots of stuff
The EU, does not sell us a lot more to us than we do to them. We are a small EU customer. They are a huge UK customer.
Sorry if this is too complicated for some
We account for for about 9% of EU imports once re-imports are stripped out.
Trade in goods, figures from Eurostat and some estimation of re-import/export values.
We are also the single biggest consumer market in the EU and have the highest consumption per capita within the bloc.
I highly doubt that the EU would start a trade war with Britain if we left. If you really believe that then I think you are just stupid, if you are just trying to make a point then it is disingenuous. Not even RN and other europhiles are arguing that the EU would decide to put a trade barrier up. You need the new crib sheet.0 -
But following your logic down thread, JLR could negotiate a better deal with China and not be too bothered about any loss in the European market.Scott_P said:
No, I am saying, as I have all along, that the UK market for BMW is not nearly as valuable as the EU market to JLRwatford30 said:Yes, BMW are really going to walk away from the British market.
0 -
Trump will get a lot more of the black vote than Romney did because 1 Hillary isn't black ( Romney was up against Obama ) and 2 Trump is far more attractive to black Americans than Romney was.LondonBob said:
In 2012 Romney won just 61% of the white electorate to get 50% of the vote. Trump could get a more Texas like 76% to win it, which in 2012 led to Romney winning Texas with 58%.NorfolkTilIDie said:Latinos were 14% of votes in 2014 election in Florida, a must win state for GOP.
http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/2015/03/31/official-voter-turnout-data-for-latinos-in-2014/
Probably more like 16% this year.
If 75% of the electorate are white, and Trump wins 66.6% of that, he wins by a landslide. An updated version of Nixon's southern strategy.0 -
It's not three Aces. Scott is entirely right that they hold both the Aces and the bigger stack as you need to look in percentage times. You should always look at costs and revenues in percentages not nominal terms.TGOHF said:
The Ace we have is that we have low unemployment and are growing while they're struggling.0 -
-
blackburn63 said:
Mr Meeks claimed recently there was a Leave plant on here, I'm outing him as Scott_P
I'm happy to listen to decent arguments for Remain, but these ones are just scaremongering and farcical.
0 -
Quite - there are good reasons to stay in the EU but these silly scare stories are just pathetic.FrancisUrquhart said:This argument over BMW walking away / not walking we away etc is very tiresome. Nobody will want to surrender a profitable market, so stay in or come out arrangements will be made. BMW will still.flog us cars & British business will still have to make stuff to eu regs.
0 -
That raises an interesting dynamic. What happens when we manufacture goods for the rest of the World markets ignoring EU regsFrancisUrquhart said:This argument over BMW walking away / not walking we away etc is very tiresome. Nobody will want to surrender a profitable market, so stay in or come out arrangements will be made. BMW will still.flog us cars & British business will still have to make stuff to eu regs.
0 -
Sounds like Scott is reading his instructions upside down today and getting confused.Should have stuck to retweets.Scott_P said:
Yes, they don't. I'll try again, and type slowly...TGOHF said:
MonikerDiCanio :
The EU, especially Jerry, sells a lot more to us than we do to them.
Scott_P:
No, they really don't
What percentage of UK exports goes to the EU? Clue, it's a big number. We sell them lots of our stuff
What percentage of EU exports come to the UK? Clue, it's not a big number. They don't sell us lots of stuff
The EU, does not sell us a lot more to us than we do to them. We are a small EU customer. They are a huge UK customer.
Sorry if this is too complicated for some0 -
MaxPB said:
The EU accounts for around 35% of our exports once re-exports are stripped out.
We account for for about 9% of EU imports once re-imports are stripped out.
Trade in goods, figures from Eurostat and some estimation of re-import/export values.
And with that, I shall retire from the frayPhilip_Thompson said:Scott is entirely right that they hold both the Aces and the bigger stack as you need to look in percentage times. You should always look at costs and revenues in percentages not nominal terms.
0 -
Good poll for Cruz in Texas, probably not a decisive enough lead though to make big difference.
Cruz 37, Trump 29
The Donald coming in on BF POTUS market.0
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