politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson can lead Britain out of Europe – if he’s ser

Nicola wants to leave the UK ... freedom! Nicola wants to stay in the EU and end up part of a conglomerate ... freedom!

Is she saying she doesn't trust the Brits, but does trust the Eurocrats?

TCPoliticalBetting said:

This was one LEAVER that I did not expect.

http://order-order.com/2016/02/21/zahawi-changes-his-mind-and-backs-leave/

HOLY SHIT !

Me neither I'd written the bloke off as an Osborne sockpuppet.

TGOHF said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Can some of the diehard Leavers clarify a point for me? Yesterday I seemed to cause quite a stir by suggesting the public wouldn't find a collection of oddballs leading the charge for Leave very persuasive. The consensus seemed to be that it was the ishoos that mattered.

Today the diehard Leaver consensus seems to be that having Boris Johnson on their side is a huge asset. Which do Leavers actually believe? Or is it, as usual, the case that the diehard Leavers want to have their cake and eat it?

Seems brave of REMAIN to want to fight on personalities not policies when they are led by a heady mixture of the rich, Marxists, common purpose drones, McFacists and hardline Irish Republicans.

OK, I'm curious. What is a "common purpose drone"?

Scott_P said:

Charles said:

But Boris will attract attention from the media.

Boris is box office. A cartoon.

His plan is worthy of Wile E Coyote. Catch the road runner by running off the cliff edge, then pedalling like mad for 2 years...

I mean really Scott ?

Since you're so worried about what happens on 24th June can you explain how EU integration will definitively come to a dead stop on that day ?

Because you see I don't think it will.

Dan Hannan
"There will be no treaty revision, no UK veto, no calling into question of free movement." Jean-Marc Ayrault, French foreign minister.

Plato_Says said:

TBH I can't see much mileage in trying to dissect Boris' article, no one out there cares a jot.

And fighting about it on here seems the definition of a Slow News Day.

To most voters, the news is Boris Johnson supports Brexit. Most people don't parse newspaper columns as if they were contracts.

CD13 said:

Nicola wants to leave the UK ... freedom! Nicola wants to stay in the EU and end up part of a conglomerate ... freedom!

Is she saying she doesn't trust the Brits, but does trust the Eurocrats?

The Scots, as a free nation, had a long history of allying with the French to harass the English. It would be odd indeed if the SNP didn't want to resume where Mary Stewart left off...

"There will be no treaty revision, no UK veto, no calling into question of free movement." Jean-Marc Ayrault, French foreign minister.

Yes, it's a great deal, just like the Prime Minister promised us.

For the French

A plea to my fellow Tories: don’t turn the EU vote into another circular firing squad | Andrew Mitchell https://t.co/Ef6TvWo46g

AlastairMeeks said:

Can some of the diehard Leavers clarify a point for me? Yesterday I seemed to cause quite a stir by suggesting the public wouldn't find a collection of oddballs leading the charge for Leave very persuasive. The consensus seemed to be that it was the ishoos that mattered.

Today the diehard Leaver consensus seems to be that having Boris Johnson on their side is a huge asset. Which do Leavers actually believe? Or is it, as usual, the case that the diehard Leavers want to have their cake and eat it?

I can't speak for all Leavers - we are not a homogenous group - but my view was that there were a number of serious politicians backing Leave even before Boris joined.

I also don't think its fair to say that Leave supporters usually try to have their cake and eat it. Most have said that Theresa May was a loss to the Leave side and that giving Galloway a big slot was a big mistake. Think you are suffering confirmation bias in pathological dislike of Leave side.

CB changes (if they happen at all) are only worth about £30m aren't they?

That's one day's net UK budgetary contributions to the EU isn't it?

What a fantastic achievement - move over Maggie...

Election Data
Poll findings: 17% of @UKLabour members rank immigration as the most important issue facing Britain today, compared to 60% of British public

Great sign on the window of a Donegal house making would-be election canvassers aware of what awaits them. https://t.co/KgGGX5aUFs

Indigo said:

CarlottaVance said:

ThreeQuidder said:

CarlottaVance said:

ThreeQuidder said:

Scott_P said:

Jonathan said:

Boris' position is incoherent. He obviously wants to remain in a reformed EU, but is backing leave.

No wonder he took so long before getting off the fence. If you look closely he is still on it.

He is not backing leave. He is backing a vote for leave, as a lever to renegotiate a "better" deal

Outside the EU.

Where does he say that in his article?

Already quoted by NorfolkTilIDie.

Boris doesn't say it in his article - unlike Gove.......

I know you hate him leading leave,

But he's NOT leading Leave - you really should pay attention to what he says - not what his delirious fanboys spout.....

TheScreamingEagles said:

After reading the Boris article, I'm glad I've been laying him for next Tory leader, that policy won't change.

Absolute pish compared to Gove's spine tingling, intellectually sound parvum opus on Saturday

I'm thinking of laying Boris for next leader too.

The only thing that can be said with certainty about Boris's article is that it's not very good. It's diffuse, rambling and unclear as to what future he advocates. That in itself is surprising. This is the pivotal moment of his career. You'd expect the most tightly argued, engaging article of his life (which is perhaps what Gove produced). At all events, I don't think it's worth dissecting Boris's words. All that matters is that he recommends voting Leave.

If he also campaigns hard (contrary to what we've been hearing) then I think Leave is in with a very serious chance. Definite value at the current odds. (Confession: I'm talking my book here.)

I also suspect Boris *will* campaign hard. His action makes no sense otherwise. The idea that he can lie low and win the leadership by being just slightly more Leave than Osborne is unrealistic. He'll just be eclipsed by some more vigorous Leaver if he does that. For the sake of his own ambitions he has to come out fighting for the side he has chosen and I expect he will figure that out.

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

After reading the Boris article, I'm glad I've been laying him for next Tory leader, that policy won't change.

Absolute pish compared to Gove's spine tingling, intellectually sound parvum opus on Saturday

Pah Eagles you jelly livered munichois, you'll tie yourseld up in knots for the next 4 months and then plump for the party line.

I have defied the current leadership in the past, especially on the most important of matters.

For example my views on AV are well known.

And you should have seen me under the leadership of IDS

I just read Michael Gove's reasons for leaving.

The big businesses bit got me - using the regulations to crush small businesses and make lives worse for employees (I see the grinding results of it every day). That makes me fear for the future of our children more than anything else - I see people in our factory who are akin to zero-hour contract slaves.

I'm a natural risk taker, so screw it, I'm gonna vote for leave.

Wanderer said:

The only thing that can be said with certainty about Boris's article is that it's not very good. It's diffuse, rambling and unclear as to what future he advocates. That in itself is surprising. This is the pivotal moment of his career. You'd expect the most tightly argued, engaging article of his life (which is perhaps what Gove produced). At all events, I don't think it's worth dissecting Boris's words. All that matters is that he recommends voting Leave.

If he also campaigns hard (contrary to what we've been hearing) then I think Leave is in with a very serious chance. Definite value at the current odds. (Confession: I'm talking my book here.)

I also suspect Boris *will* campaign hard. His action makes no sense otherwise. The idea that he can lie low and win the leadership by being just slightly more Leave than Osborne is unrealistic. He'll just be eclipsed by some more vigorous Leaver if he does that. For the sake of his own ambitions he has to come out fighting for the side he has chosen and I expect he will figure that out.

Agree - He's just not going to do head to heads against fellow Tories or difficult interviews where he may get tripped up.

He's do light interviews, rally the troops, public appearances and Boris-will-be-Boris.

isam said:

The front pages that everyone reads say " Boris Backs Brexit"

The political columns that no one reads play Devils advocafe

Home win

Yesterday and today yes.

But tomorrow, next week, next month and through to voting who will lead LEAVE ?

JohnO said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

After reading the Boris article, I'm glad I've been laying him for next Tory leader, that policy won't change.

Absolute pish compared to Gove's spine tingling, intellectually sound parvum opus on Saturday

Pah Eagles you jelly livered munichois, you'll tie yourseld up in knots for the next 4 months and then plump for the party line.

Ah Brookie, old bean, about that £3000 (Eygptian) to join the party and deselect your MP. I am delighted to inform you that your offer has been accepted.

All change Johnny boy my MP has suddenly developed the ability to think for himself ( see down thread )

Wanderer said:

I also suspect Boris *will* campaign hard. His action makes no sense otherwise.

@JoeWatts_: Gallant effort from @theousherwood to get Boris to say something, who would have thought it would be so hard. https://t.co/Uhgs6eCbC8

Who wrote this?

It is also true that the single market is of considerable value to many UK companies and consumers, and that leaving would cause at least some business uncertainty, while embroiling the Government for several years in a fiddly process of negotiating new arrangements, so diverting energy from the real problems of this country – low skills, low social mobility, low investment etc – that have nothing to do with Europe

and this:

My ideal world is, we're there, we're in the EU, trying to make it better.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

After reading the Boris article, I'm glad I've been laying him for next Tory leader, that policy won't change.

Absolute pish compared to Gove's spine tingling, intellectually sound parvum opus on Saturday

Pah Eagles you jelly livered munichois, you'll tie yourseld up in knots for the next 4 months and then plump for the party line.

I have defied the current leadership in the past, especially on the most important of matters.

For example my views on AV are well known.

And you should have seen me under the leadership of IDS

Nonsense you and SeanT will switch sides so many times you'll crash in to each other and cause a mulitiple pile up.

Alanbrooke said:

logical_song said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Can some of the diehard Leavers clarify a point for me? Yesterday I seemed to cause quite a stir by suggesting the public wouldn't find a collection of oddballs leading the charge for Leave very persuasive. The consensus seemed to be that it was the ishoos that mattered.

Today the diehard Leaver consensus seems to be that having Boris Johnson on their side is a huge asset. Which do Leavers actually believe? Or is it, as usual, the case that the diehard Leavers want to have their cake and eat it?

I think the general consensus is that in the oddball stakes both sides are evenly matched.

Farage, Galloway? No, no consensus I'm afraid.

if you say so though Mcdonnell. Osborne and Corbyn are regularly pummelled here as much as Farage and are seen as oddball in their own special domains.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11859648/Jeremy-Corbyn-admits-he-voted-for-Britain-to-leave-Europe-in-1975.html

Plato_Says said:

Great article about innovation being stifled by the EU - Matt Ridley makes a very good case for Leave http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4695987.ece

We innovate plenty. Others inside the EU innovate more. What we are shocking at is investing in R&D and capturing innovation and invention through patents. That's not the EU's fault. That's the fault of our business leaders and investors - who prioritise short-term gain and cost-savings over longer-term investment.

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

After reading the Boris article, I'm glad I've been laying him for next Tory leader, that policy won't change.

Absolute pish compared to Gove's spine tingling, intellectually sound parvum opus on Saturday

Pah Eagles you jelly livered munichois, you'll tie yourseld up in knots for the next 4 months and then plump for the party line.

I have defied the current leadership in the past, especially on the most important of matters.

For example my views on AV are well known.

And you should have seen me under the leadership of IDS

Nonsense you and SeanT will switch sides so many times you'll crash in to each other and cause a mulitiple pile up.

I've promised to post a picture of my postal ballot on PB.

TheScreamingEagles said:

The most important decision in this referendum has yet to be made.

The electoral commission has to appoint the official Leave campaign, if it Grassroots Out then that's a blow for leave.

Whilst Cameron is on the same side as Gerry Adams and John McDonnell, you can be damn sure Remain won't hold a rally and introduce Adams or McDonnell as their special guest.

Lord only knows how they will decide bertween the two.

It's essentially a highly-charged political decision about whether free movement will be the centrepiece of the campaign.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Who wrote this?

It is also true that the single market is of considerable value to many UK companies and consumers, and that leaving would cause at least some business uncertainty, while embroiling the Government for several years in a fiddly process of negotiating new arrangements, so diverting energy from the real problems of this country – low skills, low social mobility, low investment etc – that have nothing to do with Europe

The same person who wrote this in the next paragraph?

Against these points we must enter the woeful defects of the EU. It is manifestly undemocratic and in some ways getting worse. It is wasteful, expensive and occasionally corrupt. The Common Agricultural Policy is iniquitous towards developing countries. The EU is legislating over an ever wider range of policy areas, now including human rights, and with Britain ever more frequently outvoted. There is currently no effective means of checking this one-way ratchet of growth-strangling regulation, and to make matters worse the EU is now devoting most of its intellectual energy to trying to save the euro, a flawed project from which we are thankfully exempt. The EU’s share of global trade is diminishing, and the people who prophesy doom as a result of Brexit are very largely the same people who said we should join the euro.

Richard, you're embarrassing yourself. Sure you've decided to vote remain. Bully for you. But don't partially quote others to give a misleading impression

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

runnymede said:

CB changes (if they happen at all) are only worth about £30m aren't they?

That's one day's net UK budgetary contributions to the EU isn't it?

What a fantastic achievement - move over Maggie...

The £30m was quoted by a Sky journo on Friday,
I was gobsmacked how small it was given the fuss that was made about it.

Especially when you think how much impact some minor tweaking of our existing benefits laws can have ie link to cpi rather than rpi.

Scott_P said:

Wanderer said:

I also suspect Boris *will* campaign hard. His action makes no sense otherwise.

@JoeWatts_: Gallant effort from @theousherwood to get Boris to say something, who would have thought it would be so hard. https://t.co/Uhgs6eCbC8

At least he does say 'Outside the European Union'......more clarity than his thousands of words in the Telegraph......

Plato_Says said:

Matt Ridley in Times makes a more detailed case here

Linked earlier. Well worth a read.

Fenster said:

I just read Michael Gove's reasons for leaving.

The big businesses bit got me - using the regulations to crush small businesses and make lives worse for employees (I see the grinding results of it every day). That makes me fear for the future of our children more than anything else - I see people in our factory who are akin to zero-hour contract slaves.

I'm a natural risk taker, so screw it, I'm gonna vote for leave.

Thank you!

Sentimentally, I feel like a spiteful bastard voting to leave. The peace we've had in Europe for 60 years and the close bonds between once warring countries. I mean, it is impressive, and really it should trump all else.

But the creeping powers, the tentacles stealing away, smidge by smidge, bits of our sovereignty. It has always bothered me and should bother everyone who cares about politics. I regard Gove (the Tories version of Ed Balls) as a decent, intellectually challenging, free-thinking, political hard-nut. He might be crushingly unpopular (again, like Balls) due to his stridency, but there's something noble in that.

I trust him.

Indigo said:

ThreeQuidder said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Can some of the diehard Leavers clarify a point for me? Yesterday I seemed to cause quite a stir by suggesting the public wouldn't find a collection of oddballs leading the charge for Leave very persuasive. The consensus seemed to be that it was the ishoos that mattered.

Today the diehard Leaver consensus seems to be that having Boris Johnson on their side is a huge asset. Which do Leavers actually believe? Or is it, as usual, the case that the diehard Leavers want to have their cake and eat it?

There's actually no contradiction, though I'm not sure it's worth spending the time explaining why to a devout Remainian who has made up his mind because he thinks Farage is a gay-basher and doesn't trust the public to keep him out of government.

Boris is a massive media figure, as a simple for-instance he has more Twitter followers than all the main party leaders put together,he is going to engage people, especially young voters, like no one else in Leave.

99% of voters are not going to give a crap about the minutiae of the deal, they are going to go on gut feel and what key people say. Attempts by Remainers to dissect the details of his text is futile, beyond the obsessives here no one cares.

If Dave runs around doing Project Fear, and Boris runs around doing hopey changey sunlight uplands stuff, its going to be interesting.

Is Boris going to do much running around, though? His usual style is not to debate, not to do press conferences and not to do in-depth interviews. There is no indication that this is going to change. What are his views on free movement, the Leave camp's big potential calling card?

De Facto, Boris Johnson is now the public face of the Leave campaign.

isam said:

JackW said:

isam said:

The front pages that everyone reads say " Boris Backs Brexit"

The political columns that no one reads play Devils advocafe

Home win

Yesterday and today yes.

But tomorrow, next week, next month and through to voting who will lead LEAVE ?

Well I was talking about yesterday and today

As for who will lead LEAVE, I don't know. Personally I think the good cop/bad cop dynamic of Vote Leave and Grassroots OUT works well

Being effectively leaderless is a significant problem for LEAVE because in the vacuum REMAIN will fill the space with marmite.

JohnO said:

Will Boris ask a question in the Commons this afternoon? Will he even turn-up? He is surely bound to be mentioned by not a few mischievous people (prompted by the whips?). How will Dave respond?

He was doorstepped on his way to 'Mayor of London' ing.......I suspect he may be busy through the afternoon....

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

After reading the Boris article, I'm glad I've been laying him for next Tory leader, that policy won't change.

Absolute pish compared to Gove's spine tingling, intellectually sound parvum opus on Saturday

Pah Eagles you jelly livered munichois, you'll tie yourseld up in knots for the next 4 months and then plump for the party line.

I have defied the current leadership in the past, especially on the most important of matters.

For example my views on AV are well known.

And you should have seen me under the leadership of IDS

Nonsense you and SeanT will switch sides so many times you'll crash in to each other and cause a mulitiple pile up.

I've promised to post a picture of my postal ballot on PB.

Can you take Tipp Ex into a ballot box ?

Some questions for a Monday morning:

How are the negotiations going with Switzerland after their referendum to reject Free Movement of Labour and is some kind of Swixit from EFTA still on the cards for 2017?
Might this have any bearing on what conditions there could be for our joining EFTA, for instance, could EEA be a condition of our EFTA membership, preventing us from an EFTA-Bilateral Swiss type arrangement?
Does our current membership of the EEA survive our leaving the EU in any case, unless we negotiate otherwise?
What did UKIP's manifesto say about about our preferred future membership status outside the EU, if anything?
Do some of the agreements made in the latest negotiation fall void on Brexit - i.e. could we end up with an EFTA EEA membership that actually lacks some of the features written in to the latest documents, particularly wrt two-speed financial regulation and the benefits emergency brake?

And more hypothetically:

If David Cameron had come back with a proposal to remain in the EU, but in all key respects that mirrored an EFTA EEA arrangement, how would leave have gone about attacking that?

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

ThreeQuidder said:

Alanbrooke said:

logical_song said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Can some of the diehard Leavers clarify a point for me? Yesterday I seemed to cause quite a stir by suggesting the public wouldn't find a collection of oddballs leading the charge for Leave very persuasive. The consensus seemed to be that it was the ishoos that mattered.

Today the diehard Leaver consensus seems to be that having Boris Johnson on their side is a huge asset. Which do Leavers actually believe? Or is it, as usual, the case that the diehard Leavers want to have their cake and eat it?

I think the general consensus is that in the oddball stakes both sides are evenly matched.

Farage, Galloway? No, no consensus I'm afraid.

if you say so though Mcdonnell. Osborne and Corbyn are regularly pummelled here as much as Farage and are seen as oddball in their own special domains.

McDonnell and Corbyn, yes, along with Sinn Fein. Not Osborne, though, who's just another mainstream politician.

and in a nutshell that's the problem for the politicos in this vote.

The vote is cross party and mudslinging won;t work without offending half the target electorate.

You say Corbyn's mad and Osborne a hero, on the left of your voting spectrum someone thinks the exact opposite. So are you going to offend everyone or just be bland for the next 4 months ?

This is a Tory game because only the Tories are going to be in power for the foreseeable future. What Corbyn or Gerry Adams think about the EU are immaterial, thy are never going to have the chance to do anything about it.

That's just plain daft.

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

After reading the Boris article, I'm glad I've been laying him for next Tory leader, that policy won't change.

Absolute pish compared to Gove's spine tingling, intellectually sound parvum opus on Saturday

Pah Eagles you jelly livered munichois, you'll tie yourseld up in knots for the next 4 months and then plump for the party line.

I have defied the current leadership in the past, especially on the most important of matters.

For example my views on AV are well known.

And you should have seen me under the leadership of IDS

Nonsense you and SeanT will switch sides so many times you'll crash in to each other and cause a mulitiple pile up.

I've promised to post a picture of my postal ballot on PB.

Can you take Tipp Ex into a ballot box ?

I'll come to Warwickshire, hand you my postal ballot and you can post it for me.

SouthamObserver said:

Indigo said:

ThreeQuidder said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Can some of the diehard Leavers clarify a point for me? Yesterday I seemed to cause quite a stir by suggesting the public wouldn't find a collection of oddballs leading the charge for Leave very persuasive. The consensus seemed to be that it was the ishoos that mattered.

Today the diehard Leaver consensus seems to be that having Boris Johnson on their side is a huge asset. Which do Leavers actually believe? Or is it, as usual, the case that the diehard Leavers want to have their cake and eat it?

There's actually no contradiction, though I'm not sure it's worth spending the time explaining why to a devout Remainian who has made up his mind because he thinks Farage is a gay-basher and doesn't trust the public to keep him out of government.

Boris is a massive media figure, as a simple for-instance he has more Twitter followers than all the main party leaders put together,he is going to engage people, especially young voters, like no one else in Leave.

99% of voters are not going to give a crap about the minutiae of the deal, they are going to go on gut feel and what key people say. Attempts by Remainers to dissect the details of his text is futile, beyond the obsessives here no one cares.

If Dave runs around doing Project Fear, and Boris runs around doing hopey changey sunlight uplands stuff, its going to be interesting.

Is Boris going to do much running around, though? His usual style is not to debate, not to do press conferences and not to do in-depth interviews. There is no indication that this is going to change. What are his views on free movement, the Leave camp's big potential calling card?

Even if he is for free movement, it doesn't matter. The key point is that the government we elect gets to choose who comes here... If they are elected on a platform of free movement, so be it. If the public don't like it they can vote them out next time

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

After reading the Boris article, I'm glad I've been laying him for next Tory leader, that policy won't change.

Absolute pish compared to Gove's spine tingling, intellectually sound parvum opus on Saturday

Pah Eagles you jelly livered munichois, you'll tie yourseld up in knots for the next 4 months and then plump for the party line.

I have defied the current leadership in the past, especially on the most important of matters.

For example my views on AV are well known.

And you should have seen me under the leadership of IDS

Nonsense you and SeanT will switch sides so many times you'll crash in to each other and cause a mulitiple pile up.

I've promised to post a picture of my postal ballot on PB.

Can you take Tipp Ex into a ballot box ?

I'll come to Warwickshire, hand you my postal ballot and you can post it for me.

Can I fill it in first ?

Sure is. Even Farage is in his shadow, which is saying something.

I'm finding it rather tricky to get my head around who's for or against amongst some Tories here. Same on Twitter. There's quite a few spats going on.

Presumably, Labour are having them too. It's weird to see fellow Party members squabbling so hotly.

Sean_F said:

De Facto, Boris Johnson is now the public face of the Leave campaign.

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

ThreeQuidder said:

Alanbrooke said:

logical_song said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Can some of the diehard Leavers clarify a point for me? Yesterday I seemed to cause quite a stir by suggesting the public wouldn't find a collection of oddballs leading the charge for Leave very persuasive. The consensus seemed to be that it was the ishoos that mattered.

Today the diehard Leaver consensus seems to be that having Boris Johnson on their side is a huge asset. Which do Leavers actually believe? Or is it, as usual, the case that the diehard Leavers want to have their cake and eat it?

I think the general consensus is that in the oddball stakes both sides are evenly matched.

Farage, Galloway? No, no consensus I'm afraid.

if you say so though Mcdonnell. Osborne and Corbyn are regularly pummelled here as much as Farage and are seen as oddball in their own special domains.

McDonnell and Corbyn, yes, along with Sinn Fein. Not Osborne, though, who's just another mainstream politician.

and in a nutshell that's the problem for the politicos in this vote.

The vote is cross party and mudslinging won;t work without offending half the target electorate.

You say Corbyn's mad and Osborne a hero, on the left of your voting spectrum someone thinks the exact opposite. So are you going to offend everyone or just be bland for the next 4 months ?

This is a Tory game because only the Tories are going to be in power for the foreseeable future. What Corbyn or Gerry Adams think about the EU are immaterial, thy are never going to have the chance to do anything about it.

That's just plain daft.

Why? When will Jeremy Corbyn ever have any influence over the UK's foreign policy?

Right now if he gets off his arse and campaigns - either way. EUref is a foreign policy decision.