politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson can lead Britain out of Europe – if he’s ser
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson can lead Britain out of Europe – if he’s serious about it
So its official, Boris backs Brexit. After a period of intense speculation in Westminster, the Mayor of London has come off the fence and announced that he will campaign for Britain to leave the E.U. Make no mistake, this is a major coup for the ‘Leave’ campaign which, until now, has been widely derided for the apparent lack of credible leaders within its team.
Comments
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First ..... again!0
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Second like Leave0
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Third.. the other important point is the deal is going to fall apart, from the IoS it already appears the other EU leaders are not taking it seriously and planning to kick the treaty changes into the long grass... no treaty changes means extreme vulnerability to ECJ challenges.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-michael-gove-david-cameron-brexit-national-security-a6886711.htmlIt came as doubts emerged over Mr Cameron’s EU reform package. The IoS can reveal that the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, warned the Prime Minister that his pledge to change the EU treaties to lock in his reforms may never happen.
A leaked diplomatic report of the Brussels talks reveals that Ms Merkel told fellow EU leaders not to be overly concerned about Mr Cameron’s demand for treaty changes because “on the question of amending the Treaties, we do not know if we ever will have a change of them”. The revelation undermines a key claim of Mr Cameron’s renegotiation.0 -
peter_from_putney said:
First ..... again!
I was too busy refreshing the old thread like a fool. 0 -
Hm, I find it unlikely there won't be any treaty change at all in the future of the EU.Indigo said:Third.. the other important point is the deal is going to fall apart, from the IoS it already appears the other EU leaders are not taking it seriously and planning to kick the treaty changes into the long grass... no treaty changes means extreme vulnerability to ECJ challenges.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-michael-gove-david-cameron-brexit-national-security-a6886711.htmlIt came as doubts emerged over Mr Cameron’s EU reform package. The IoS can reveal that the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, warned the Prime Minister that his pledge to change the EU treaties to lock in his reforms may never happen.
A leaked diplomatic report of the Brussels talks reveals that Ms Merkel told fellow EU leaders not to be overly concerned about Mr Cameron’s demand for treaty changes because “on the question of amending the Treaties, we do not know if we ever will have a change of them”. The revelation undermines a key claim of Mr Cameron’s renegotiation.0 -
That will either make you deaf, blind or get hair on the palm of your hand. I forget which :-)RobD said:
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Sorry, but that's a very weak excuse.RobD said:0 -
Cameron is going to be severely punished principally for the total inadequacy of his so-called renegotiations, but more especially on account of his trying to pretend to the British people that they actually amounted to a row of beans.
He attempted to take us as fools.0 -
You win this one. Next time.... (you'll probably be first againpeter_from_putney said:
Sorry, but that's a very weak excuse.RobD said:
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Excellent thread Mr Pedley - it does seem odd, Boris wanting to have his cake but not eat it......
And his motives are being called out - even the supportive Sun Editorial says 'Yes, Boris is clearly thinking about the contest to succeed David Cameron', while the Indy 'Out for Himself' and Mirror 'EU Rat Boris' are hostile....
http://suttonnick.tumblr.com0 -
RobD said:
'refreshing the old thread'.......hadn't hear that one before....every day a new euphemism.....0 -
@Tim_B never lets me live it down. That'll teach me for not nabbing the first!CarlottaVance said:RobD said:
'refreshing the old thread'.......hadn't hear that one before....every day a new euphemism.....0 -
CarlottaVance said:
Excellent thread Mr Pedley - it does seem odd, Boris wanting to have his cake but not eat it......
http://suttonnick.tumblr.com
Perhaps he's on a diet .... he could do with losing a few pounds.
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i cant get my head around Theresa May backing Remain, especially after her immigration speech at Tory party conference. Also she's no Cameroon and todays Daily Mail are reporting Cameron offered Boris Home Sec (or Foreign sec) job if he backed In. Surely Theresa backing In has killed her leadership ambitions??0
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Methinks that Sajid Whotsiesname has a bit of Albert Speer about him. Oh: Totally off-topic....0
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Only for those paying attention......peter_from_putney said:Cameron is going to be severely punished principally for the total inadequacy of his so-called renegotiations, but more especially on account of his trying to pretend to the British people that they actually amounted to a row of beans.
He attempted to take us as fools.
For the vast majority - who will tune in around the end of May, if then, its likely going to be 'what does that nice Mr Cameron say?' and 'What side is Boris on, I'm sure I read something a while back...', and then there's 'that Nicola, she's a canny Scot - what sides she on - that'll be where the money is...'0 -
Hm, I find it unlikely there won't be any treaty change at all in the future of the EU.RobD said:Indigo said:Third.. the other important point is the deal is going to fall apart, from the IoS it already appears the other EU leaders are not taking it seriously and planning to kick the treaty changes into the long grass... no treaty changes means extreme vulnerability to ECJ challenges.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-michael-gove-david-cameron-brexit-national-security-a6886711.htmlIt came as doubts emerged over Mr Cameron’s EU reform package. The IoS can reveal that the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, warned the Prime Minister that his pledge to change the EU treaties to lock in his reforms may never happen.
A leaked diplomatic report of the Brussels talks reveals that Ms Merkel told fellow EU leaders not to be overly concerned about Mr Cameron’s demand for treaty changes because “on the question of amending the Treaties, we do not know if we ever will have a change of them”. The revelation undermines a key claim of Mr Cameron’s renegotiation.
I think they plan to spin it out until there is an amenable government that will let them drop the whole idea.0 -
peter_from_putney said:CarlottaVance said:
Excellent thread Mr Pedley - it does seem odd, Boris wanting to have his cake but not eat it......
http://suttonnick.tumblr.com
Perhaps he's on a diet .... he could do with losing a few pounds.
He's not going to lose them 'leading from the rear....'0 -
It's certainly looking that way. That said, few of us ever considered she had much of a chance in the leadership stakes. Cameron's offer to Boris (if true) suggests that Cameron is planning a cabinet re-shuffle and that Mrs May is likely to be a casualty.pinkrose said:i cant get my head around Theresa May backing Remain, especially after her immigration speech at Tory party conference. Also she's no Cameroon and todays Daily Mail are reporting Cameron offered Boris Home Sec (or Foreign sec) job if he backed In. Surely Theresa backing In has killed her leadership ambitions??
What price George Osborne to succeed her at the Home Office after he has wrecked the pension plans of the middle class managers in his forthcoming socialist budget?0 -
I find the whole idea that Boris is going to take a back seat a bit fanciful, there never was a more blatant self-publicist.
He doesn't want to debate Tories because he doesn't want to piss off the people he might rely on as votes for his leadership bid, and because as leader he will want to pull that party back together - he cant do that if he spends four months standing on peoples toes.
Pretty sure he will go in hard against any non-political members of the Remain side, the accident prone Mr Rose appears to be a prime target for him. He will also do the hopey-changey-big picture stuff of course. I am sure he will find a outrider from outside the party to tackle bullshit from remain, especially since Gove knows where a lot of the skeletons are buried and has an endless armoury of ECJ etc idiocy to wheel out.0 -
I still smells like a fit up to me. To have Cameroons on both sides of the debate so which ever side wins the legacy is safe. If Remain wins there will be some public backslapping and talk about no hard feelings and Gove and Boris will slide into senior cabinet positions "to heal the divide with Leave". If Leave wins Cameron will retire early, Osborne will be holed below the waterline, so Boris will lead and Gove will be his right hand man. Boris is the most eurosceptic (ie. not very) successor Dave could countenance.peter_from_putney said:
It's certainly looking that way. That said, few of us ever considered she had much of a chance in the leadership stakes. Cameron's offer to Boris (if true) suggests that Cameron is planning a cabinet re-shuffle and that Mrs May is likely to be a casualty.pinkrose said:i cant get my head around Theresa May backing Remain, especially after her immigration speech at Tory party conference. Also she's no Cameroon and todays Daily Mail are reporting Cameron offered Boris Home Sec (or Foreign sec) job if he backed In. Surely Theresa backing In has killed her leadership ambitions??
What price George Osborne to succeed her at the Home Office after he has wrecked the pension plans of the middle class managers in his forthcoming socialist budget?0 -
***** BETTING POST *****peter_from_putney said:
It's certainly looking that way. That said, few of us ever considered she had much of a chance in the leadership stakes. Cameron's offer to Boris (if true) suggests that Cameron is planning a cabinet re-shuffle and that Mrs May is likely to be a casualty.pinkrose said:i cant get my head around Theresa May backing Remain, especially after her immigration speech at Tory party conference. Also she's no Cameroon and todays Daily Mail are reporting Cameron offered Boris Home Sec (or Foreign sec) job if he backed In. Surely Theresa backing In has killed her leadership ambitions??
What price George Osborne to succeed her at the Home Office after he has wrecked the pension plans of the middle class managers in his forthcoming socialist budget?
À Propos the prospect of George Osborne moving from his position of Chancellor after six years at a time when he is coming under increasing criticism from his own side, his current side kick, Greg Hands, appears to me anyway as a very possible successor, where those nice folk at Ladbrokes have him on offer at 16/1. I've staked £6.25 to win a ton.
DYOR.
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I'm not sure she had any - she's mentioned her health challenges in the past and by 2020 she'll be in her mid-sixties.....the British PM is a lot less protected from his or her opponents than the American President - its a tough old job....pinkrose said:Surely Theresa backing In has killed her leadership ambitions??
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The point about Boris's populsrity is that it's been gained by being a maverick. A loner. Someone who zigs when everyone else zags. Yesterday this was all about Boris the free thinker doing just that.
From tomorrow it's all change. Boris can no longer just be Boris. He's joined the mainstream and chosen a side and previous chums aren't holding back. Last night on radio 5 i heard a taste of things to come. Sweet roly-poly Boris was no more. He'd committed the cardinal Tory sin of being disloyal and they slaughtererd him.
http://jerryhayes.co.uk/posts/2016/02/21/boris-is-a-copper-bottomed-double-dealing-hypocritical-little-shit-the-press-will-destroy-him
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Hm, I find it unlikely there won't be any treaty change at all in the future of the EU.RobD said:Indigo said:Third.. the other important point is the deal is going to fall apart, from the IoS it already appears the other EU leaders are not taking it seriously and planning to kick the treaty changes into the long grass... no treaty changes means extreme vulnerability to ECJ challenges.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-michael-gove-david-cameron-brexit-national-security-a6886711.htmlIt came as doubts emerged over Mr Cameron’s EU reform package. The IoS can reveal that the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, warned the Prime Minister that his pledge to change the EU treaties to lock in his reforms may never happen.
A leaked diplomatic report of the Brussels talks reveals that Ms Merkel told fellow EU leaders not to be overly concerned about Mr Cameron’s demand for treaty changes because “on the question of amending the Treaties, we do not know if we ever will have a change of them”. The revelation undermines a key claim of Mr Cameron’s renegotiation.
I think it's actually plausible, at least regarding treaties of the whole EU. There are just too many veto points. Lisbon was almost entirely uncontroversial, and it still took 10 years and only just squeaked through. And that was with fewer members, and before the various crises that have left voters narked off with the establishment in general and the EU in particular.
An easier way to evolve is through Enhanced Cooperation and institutional mission creep. For example, the ECB just made up the power to print money to keep indebted countries' interest rates down in return for the right to keep an eye on their budgets. And if you look at how the US has evolved, most of the important changes are done without constitutional amendments, through things like gradual accretion of power to the executive branch, slowly ratcheting democratization and the generous interpretation of the commerce clause.
The other thing about this is that the next treaty will most likely be put to a referendum in Britain, where it will probably be voted down.0 -
Interestingly Gove is coming in for none of the opprobrium that Boris is...I suspect the virtue of thirty years of consistency does help......Roger said:He'd committed the cardinal Tory sin of being disloyal and they slaughtererd him.
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Mr Hands will be in the papers again soon - as the father of a successful devolution settlement......or not.....peter_from_putney said:
***** BETTING POST *****peter_from_putney said:
It's certainly looking that way. That said, few of us ever considered she had much of a chance in the leadership stakes. Cameron's offer to Boris (if true) suggests that Cameron is planning a cabinet re-shuffle and that Mrs May is likely to be a casualty.pinkrose said:i cant get my head around Theresa May backing Remain, especially after her immigration speech at Tory party conference. Also she's no Cameroon and todays Daily Mail are reporting Cameron offered Boris Home Sec (or Foreign sec) job if he backed In. Surely Theresa backing In has killed her leadership ambitions??
What price George Osborne to succeed her at the Home Office after he has wrecked the pension plans of the middle class managers in his forthcoming socialist budget?
À Propos the prospect of George Osborne moving from his position of Chancellor after six years at a time when he is coming under increasing criticism from his own side, his current side kick, Greg Hands, appears to me anyway as a very possible successor, where those nice folk at Ladbrokes have him on offer at 16/1. I've staked £6.25 to win a ton.
DYOR.0 -
Is Boris really that popular? I'd love to see regional subsamples of those favourable/ unfavorable numbers.
I strong suspect he runs up vast numbers in the south and tanks dreadfully the further north you go. Toxic in a FPTP system.0 -
And of course no one sees Gove's motivation as a lust for power whereas no one sees Boris's as anything but.CarlottaVance said:
Interestingly Gove is coming in for none of the opprobrium that Boris is...I suspect the virtue of thirty years of consistency does help......Roger said:He'd committed the cardinal Tory sin of being disloyal and they slaughtererd him.
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Old fools require refreshing from time to time ....RobD said:
Why did you REMAIN on the old thread so long before noting the absolute requirement to LEAVE ?
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He's organising underground factories manned by slave labour to make flying bombs???FluffyThoughts said:Methinks that Sajid Whotsiesname has a bit of Albert Speer about him. Oh: Totally off-topic....
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Hi Jack. Good to see you again. As the undisputed PB guru on just about everything after your election performance I suppose it would be impertinant to ask if you have any thoughts on the referendum or are you LEAVING it to others?0
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I think it's actually plausible, at least regarding treaties of the whole EU. There are just too many veto points. Lisbon was almost entirely uncontroversial, and it still took 10 years and only just squeaked through. And that was with fewer members, and before the various crises that have left voters narked off with the establishment in general and the EU in particular.edmundintokyo said:
Hm, I find it unlikely there won't be any treaty change at all in the future of the EU.RobD said:Indigo said:Third.. the other important point is the deal is going to fall apart, from the IoS it already appears the other EU leaders are not taking it seriously and planning to kick the treaty changes into the long grass... no treaty changes means extreme vulnerability to ECJ challenges.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-michael-gove-david-cameron-brexit-national-security-a6886711.htmlIt came as doubts emerged over Mr Cameron’s EU reform package. The IoS can reveal that the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, warned the Prime Minister that his pledge to change the EU treaties to lock in his reforms may never happen.
A leaked diplomatic report of the Brussels talks reveals that Ms Merkel told fellow EU leaders not to be overly concerned about Mr Cameron’s demand for treaty changes because “on the question of amending the Treaties, we do not know if we ever will have a change of them”. The revelation undermines a key claim of Mr Cameron’s renegotiation.
An easier way to evolve is through Enhanced Cooperation and institutional mission creep. For example, the ECB just made up the power to print money to keep indebted countries' interest rates down in return for the right to keep an eye on their budgets. And if you look at how the US has evolved, most of the important changes are done without constitutional amendments, through things like gradual accretion of power to the executive branch, slowly ratcheting democratization and the generous interpretation of the commerce clause.
The other thing about this is that the next treaty will most likely be put to a referendum in Britain, where it will probably be voted down.
Technically, QE was considered permissable because Eurozone inflation was well under 2%, and it is the 'mission' of the ECB to keep inflation close to, but under, 2%.
Also, because the ECB can only buy bonds in proportion to the size of a country's economy, the effect is to supress yields on unindebted Eurozone countries (such as Germany) more than in the the more indebted periphery.0 -
Thank you @Roger .... you too should not hide your considerable and historic election performance guru status on PB ....Roger said:Hi Jack. Good to see you again. As the undisputed PB guru on just about everything after your election performance I suppose it would be impertinant to ask if you have any thoughts on the referendum or are you LEAVING it to others?
Whilst today Boris is the focus of attention for LEAVE, the essentials of this referendum REMAIN the same. The PM will pull sufficient Conservative inclined supporters and waverers to his cause and an essentially conservative nation, will despite misgivings, hold on to nanny rather than embrace the charms of Farage, Galloway and ilk.
A clear win for REMAIN beckons.0 -
Morning. Trying desparately to catch up on the past couple of days after work got in the way at the worst possible time! So we have a referendum, Gove and Boris are for leave, Jeb! won't be president, England got smashed at cricket again...
But most importantly, @JackW is back!0 -
FPT
Indigo Posts:
In that well known Leaver rag the Independent
It came as doubts emerged over Mr Cameron’s EU reform package. The IoS can reveal that the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, warned the Prime Minister that his pledge to change the EU treaties to lock in his reforms may never happen.
A leaked diplomatic report of the Brussels talks reveals that Ms Merkel told fellow EU leaders not to be overly concerned about Mr Cameron’s demand for treaty changes because “on the question of amending the Treaties, we do not know if we ever will have a change of them”. The revelation undermines a key claim of Mr Cameron’s renegotiation.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-michael-gove-david-cameron-brexit-national-security-a6886711.html
Taken for fools ?
Of course Merkel does not need to do anything other than ensure the MEPs vote the changes down. This vote will take place after the referendum so any remain vote will still be subject to this process which naturally will not be in our favour.
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"Boris was no more. He'd committed the cardinal Tory sin of being disloyal and they slaughtered him."Roger said:The point about Boris's populsrity is that it's been gained by being a maverick. A loner. Someone who zigs when everyone else zags. Yesterday this was all about Boris the free thinker doing just that.
From tomorrow it's all change. Boris can no longer just be Boris. He's joined the mainstream and chosen a side and previous chums aren't holding back. Last night on radio 5 i heard a taste of things to come. Sweet roly-poly Boris was no more. He'd committed the cardinal Tory sin of being disloyal and they slaughtererd him.
http://jerryhayes.co.uk/posts/2016/02/21/boris-is-a-copper-bottomed-double-dealing-hypocritical-little-shit-the-press-will-destroy-him
Indeed I can see an inner secret circle of supporters could already convening under fixed elections and then attempting to deselect him to ensure that all others realise that disloyalty to the leader will cost you your seat and your job.
Oh, wait a minute.......0 -
If it gets voted down by MEPs we will simply leave the EU.Moses_ said:FPT
Indigo Posts:
In that well known Leaver rag the Independent
It came as doubts emerged over Mr Cameron’s EU reform package. The IoS can reveal that the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, warned the Prime Minister that his pledge to change the EU treaties to lock in his reforms may never happen.
A leaked diplomatic report of the Brussels talks reveals that Ms Merkel told fellow EU leaders not to be overly concerned about Mr Cameron’s demand for treaty changes because “on the question of amending the Treaties, we do not know if we ever will have a change of them”. The revelation undermines a key claim of Mr Cameron’s renegotiation.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-michael-gove-david-cameron-brexit-national-security-a6886711.html
Taken for fools ?
Of course Merkel does not need to do anything other than ensure the MEPs vote the changes down. This vote will take place after the referendum so any remain vote will still be subject to this process which naturally will not be in our favour.0 -
I imagine that he's 'popular' in a 'would go for a pint with him' kind of way. Less so when it comes to actually voting him to lead the country.asjohnstone said:Is Boris really that popular? I'd love to see regional subsamples of those favourable/ unfavorable numbers.
I strong suspect he runs up vast numbers in the south and tanks dreadfully the further north you go. Toxic in a FPTP system.
The British prefer to be led by a statesman who knows how to behave in public, we are not Italy or Greece. Who would vote to let their wife near him, vs the same question for Mr Cameron?0 -
There will be loads of this coming from other European leaders, and the PM really needs them to shut up for a few months.Moses_ said:FPT
Indigo Posts:
In that well known Leaver rag the Independent
It came as doubts emerged over Mr Cameron’s EU reform package. The IoS can reveal that the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, warned the Prime Minister that his pledge to change the EU treaties to lock in his reforms may never happen.
A leaked diplomatic report of the Brussels talks reveals that Ms Merkel told fellow EU leaders not to be overly concerned about Mr Cameron’s demand for treaty changes because “on the question of amending the Treaties, we do not know if we ever will have a change of them”. The revelation undermines a key claim of Mr Cameron’s renegotiation.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-michael-gove-david-cameron-brexit-national-security-a6886711.html
Taken for fools ?
Of course Merkel does not need to do anything other than ensure the MEPs vote the changes down. This vote will take place after the referendum so any remain vote will still be subject to this process which naturally will not be in our favour.
The problem is that they all have their own domestic audiences to worry about, and it makes every sense from that perspective to talk down the British deal as either meaningless words or not enforceable.
They all help the Leave side with these pronouncements. Maybe deep down some of them would be happy with that outcome.0 -
Mmmm.....or watered down even further?rcs1000 said:
If it gets voted down by MEPs we will simply leave the EU.Moses_ said:FPT
Indigo Posts:
In that well known Leaver rag the Independent
It came as doubts emerged over Mr Cameron’s EU reform package. The IoS can reveal that the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, warned the Prime Minister that his pledge to change the EU treaties to lock in his reforms may never happen.
A leaked diplomatic report of the Brussels talks reveals that Ms Merkel told fellow EU leaders not to be overly concerned about Mr Cameron’s demand for treaty changes because “on the question of amending the Treaties, we do not know if we ever will have a change of them”. The revelation undermines a key claim of Mr Cameron’s renegotiation.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-michael-gove-david-cameron-brexit-national-security-a6886711.html
Taken for fools ?
Of course Merkel does not need to do anything other than ensure the MEPs vote the changes down. This vote will take place after the referendum so any remain vote will still be subject to this process which naturally will not be in our favour.
So we could have a position where there is a large remain vote, this MEP scenario occurs and so we leave anyway. So how could we invoke article 50 after a referendum called for remain? I suspect the process of just leaving will be fraught with legal implications that a simple "we would just leave" would never be as simple as that in such circumstances. It would be a real dogs breakfast.
The one thing with the EU is you rarely get what you think you are getting and commonly don't.0 -
Voted down? Never.rcs1000 said:
If it gets voted down by MEPs we will simply leave the EU.Moses_ said:FPT
Indigo Posts:
In that well known Leaver rag the Independent
It came as doubts emerged over Mr Cameron’s EU reform package. The IoS can reveal that the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, warned the Prime Minister that his pledge to change the EU treaties to lock in his reforms may never happen.
A leaked diplomatic report of the Brussels talks reveals that Ms Merkel told fellow EU leaders not to be overly concerned about Mr Cameron’s demand for treaty changes because “on the question of amending the Treaties, we do not know if we ever will have a change of them”. The revelation undermines a key claim of Mr Cameron’s renegotiation.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-michael-gove-david-cameron-brexit-national-security-a6886711.html
Taken for fools ?
Of course Merkel does not need to do anything other than ensure the MEPs vote the changes down. This vote will take place after the referendum so any remain vote will still be subject to this process which naturally will not be in our favour.
Subtly amended in a fashion that upon closer inspections removes all meaning from it? Well, stranger things have happened....0 -
I think Boris is yet to come to terms, emotionally, with his decision. He's put his career ambitions and dislike of the merits of the deal above his family and closest political friends.
That is tough.
But, if he really does want to win (and it's still a big "if" in my mind) he's going to have to leave all of at that the door TODAY.
He must go all out in this fight: be hard, ruthless and go for the kill.
That means coming to terms with the fact he will lose David Cameron as a friend and politically ally forever. In fact, from Cameron's perspective, that's almost certainly already happened.
Sad, perhaps even tragic, but tough titty. This is politics. And that's why most of us don't do it.
But, if he wants to be PM, he absolutely has to do this.0 -
Good Morning Jack!JackW said:
Thank you @Roger .... you too should not hide your considerable and historic election performance guru status on PB ....Roger said:Hi Jack. Good to see you again. As the undisputed PB guru on just about everything after your election performance I suppose it would be impertinant to ask if you have any thoughts on the referendum or are you LEAVING it to others?
Whilst today Boris is the focus of attention for LEAVE, the essentials of this referendum REMAIN the same. The PM will pull sufficient Conservative inclined supporters and waverers to his cause and an essentially conservative nation, will despite misgivings, hold on to nanny rather than embrace the charms of Farage, Galloway and ilk.
A clear win for REMAIN beckons.
I hope your ARSE makes a regular showing over the next months.0 -
Boris also needs to get a team of very good advisors around him.
Today.0 -
PS. Excellent thread. Keiran is 100% right, IMHO.0
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The Com Res numbers speak for themselves. The UK is a single constituency in this Referendum, so regional splits don't matter.asjohnstone said:Is Boris really that popular? I'd love to see regional subsamples of those favourable/ unfavorable numbers.
I strong suspect he runs up vast numbers in the south and tanks dreadfully the further north you go. Toxic in a FPTP system.0 -
Bumpy weekend for Remain with Cameron's deal creating a wave of ennui and more cabinet ministers than expected coming out for Leave. He has to get the deal through the Commons today as well but thankfully his main questioner is that care in the community chap who never has anything interesting to say.
My guess is that after today the deal will be put in some filing cabinet somewhere and we will hear very little about it again until after the referendum. The text indicates that it will be of no effect if the UK chooses to leave which seems to translate into nothing much will happen until we have voted to stay.
The real question from here is whether putting the deal on the shelf where it belongs makes it easier for the left who want to support Remain but not a Tory PM to get in the game. So far this has been an almost exclusively Tory debate. Whilst their share of the electorate (along with UKIP) are by far the most interested it seems highly unlikely that the 40 odd percent still to their left are going to sit this one out.
I don't think the media will be happy in having the members of one party so dominating the debate. This will become even more the case if we have the spectacle of Tories being excessively polite to each other which makes for very dull viewing or listening.0 -
Free movement is the key issue. If Boris goes hard on that then Leave have a real chance. If he doesn't, then maybe not. The fact that Boris is not going to debate any of the key figures in Remain and is unlikely to do any in-depth TV interviews will make him pretty peripheral in any case. We'll see him in the Leave-friendly press and giving the odd soundbite, but it's pretty clear he won't be front and centre of the campaign. If Leave lose and he hasn't played a big part, that may hinder his leadership prospects. As others have said, Boris is popular because he has worked hard not to come across as a politician. Now, though, he has chosen a side. Let's see how that plays out.0
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The guns of Osborne and Cameron (and their allies) were turned on Theresa May full-force from October-January, who clearly was never a massive EUsceptic anyway.pinkrose said:i cant get my head around Theresa May backing Remain, especially after her immigration speech at Tory party conference. Also she's no Cameroon and todays Daily Mail are reporting Cameron offered Boris Home Sec (or Foreign sec) job if he backed In. Surely Theresa backing In has killed her leadership ambitions??
They had their backs turned to Boris and Gove, and never saw it coming.0 -
He needs to answer the Vicky Pollard question.Casino_Royale said:Boris also needs to get a team of very good advisors around him.
Today.
londonstatto's timeline is hilarious this morning. He is replying to every journalist that read Boris's piece and concluded the same thing, with "You're wrong!"0 -
One can never accuse Nazis of a lack of creativity.rcs1000 said:
He's organising underground factories manned by slave labour to make flying bombs???FluffyThoughts said:Methinks that Sajid Whotsiesname has a bit of Albert Speer about him. Oh: Totally off-topic....
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Because journalists never collectively get things wrong??Scott_P said:
He needs to answer the Vicky Pollard question.Casino_Royale said:Boris also needs to get a team of very good advisors around him.
Today.
londonstatto's timeline is hilarious this morning. He is replying to every journalist that read Boris's piece and concluded the same thing, with "You're wrong!"
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How plausible is:
Remain wins:
General discontent rumbles on.
Cameron resigns in 2018:
The Tory MPs choose Johnson and Osborne for the members to pick from.
The Tory members pick Boris.0 -
There was a most amusing survey ages ago posing just those questions. Wives rather fancied having dinner with Boris, husbands didn't like that idea one little bit.Sandpit said:
I imagine that he's 'popular' in a 'would go for a pint with him' kind of way. Less so when it comes to actually voting him to lead the country.asjohnstone said:Is Boris really that popular? I'd love to see regional subsamples of those favourable/ unfavorable numbers.
I strong suspect he runs up vast numbers in the south and tanks dreadfully the further north you go. Toxic in a FPTP system.
The British prefer to be led by a statesman who knows how to behave in public, we are not Italy or Greece. Who would vote to let their wife near him, vs the same question for Mr Cameron?0 -
Which one would you vote to let your pig near, though?Sandpit said:
I imagine that he's 'popular' in a 'would go for a pint with him' kind of way. Less so when it comes to actually voting him to lead the country.asjohnstone said:Is Boris really that popular? I'd love to see regional subsamples of those favourable/ unfavorable numbers.
I strong suspect he runs up vast numbers in the south and tanks dreadfully the further north you go. Toxic in a FPTP system.
The British prefer to be led by a statesman who knows how to behave in public, we are not Italy or Greece. Who would vote to let their wife near him, vs the same question for Mr Cameron?0 -
@PaulBrandITV: Fallon tells @GMB that Boris Johnson sounds like he wants a second referendum and renegotiation. But PM already as a 'significant deal'.0
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LOL! If the pig's dead, who cares?Sean_F said:
Which one would you vote to let your pig near, though?Sandpit said:
I imagine that he's 'popular' in a 'would go for a pint with him' kind of way. Less so when it comes to actually voting him to lead the country.asjohnstone said:Is Boris really that popular? I'd love to see regional subsamples of those favourable/ unfavorable numbers.
I strong suspect he runs up vast numbers in the south and tanks dreadfully the further north you go. Toxic in a FPTP system.
The British prefer to be led by a statesman who knows how to behave in public, we are not Italy or Greece. Who would vote to let their wife near him, vs the same question for Mr Cameron?
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Who cares about a couple of Tory politicians friendship and their ambitions? This is more important than that.Casino_Royale said:I think Boris is yet to come to terms, emotionally, with his decision. He's put his career ambitions and dislike of the merits of the deal above his family and closest political friends.
That is tough.
But, if he really does want to win (and it's still a big "if" in my mind) he's going to have to leave all of at that the door TODAY.
He must go all out in this fight: be hard, ruthless and go for the kill.
That means coming to terms with the fact he will lose David Cameron as a friend and politically ally forever. In fact, from Cameron's perspective, that's almost certainly already happened.
Sad, perhaps even tragic, but tough titty. This is politics. And that's why most of us don't do it.
But, if he wants to be PM, he absolutely has to do this.
Boris should be making his decision based on what he believes is genuinely right for the country not on whether it makes it more or less likely that he will attain the highest office.0 -
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/21/boris-johnson-dubbed-vick_n_9287194.htmlScott_P said:
He needs to answer the Vicky Pollard question.Casino_Royale said:Boris also needs to get a team of very good advisors around him.
Today.
@IainDale: So have I got this right? Boris is voting OUT so he can become PM to negotiate for us to stay in, but on better terms. Total f*ckwittery.0 -
@business: BREAKING: Pound falls 1.6% against dollar - biggest decline in a year https://t.co/qdU0GPzRWt #Brexit https://t.co/eqBSJGqA2x0
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'Hm, I find it unlikely there won't be any treaty change at all in the future of the EU.'
Indeed, I'm sure there will be - but those changes will increase EU integration, not reduce it.
Nice to read a reasonably rational article on this subject btw instead of 'liberal' huffing and puffing0 -
Since when has Michael Gove been anything but unfailingly polite in interviews? Dan Hannan the same. I fear the media will quickly lose interest as the Budget and local elections dominate until the first week in May.DavidL said:I don't think the media will be happy in having the members of one party so dominating the debate. This will become even more the case if we have the spectacle of Tories being excessively polite to each other which makes for very dull viewing or listening.
Then it will be a six week campaign with the same level of attention as a general election campaign. From abroad it's difficult to work out the level of engagement with the general public. I can understand that a higher turnout will probably benefit Remain, but are we expecting GE levels, AV levels or Scottish referendum levels?0 -
Just saying something is a lie don't substitute for argument. Would terrorist sympathisers from Germany be able to reside in the UK or not if we stay in?Scott_P said:0 -
Nick Confessore
Was on MSNBC, explaining that Trump doesn't need $ for ads because he gets so much free media, when they cut away from me to a Trump rally.0 -
Boris' decision has had an effect. It gives me, for example, first an in-, then an out-, and now an in-waverer, the excuse not to hold my nose when considering the Leave arguments.
IDS, meanwhile, sucks charisma from anyone around him even the air in that tv studio. So, so mediocre.
On balance what have we got? We have got a codified no closer union and no discrimination eurozone vs non-eurozone. It is nothing new but it enshrines what some of us needed to see. It doesn't roll back any of the myriad rules and regulations and if I vote Remain I'm just going to have to suck that up. But our country has it in black and white that we exist with the EU on particular terms.
Of course, for Leavers, the key is not believing that the promises are worth the paper they are printed on and the EU will steamroll us into ECU. That will be tricky to argue against as ofc it hasn't happened and may not happen (I don't think it will we're not that idiotic) but that can't be proved.0 -
Great news for those of us who get paid in dollars and have a mortgage in poundsScott_P said:@business: BREAKING: Pound falls 1.6% against dollar - biggest decline in a year https://t.co/qdU0GPzRWt #Brexit https://t.co/eqBSJGqA2x
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And it won't mindSandpit said:
LOL! If the pig's dead, who cares?Sean_F said:
Which one would you vote to let your pig near, though?Sandpit said:
I imagine that he's 'popular' in a 'would go for a pint with him' kind of way. Less so when it comes to actually voting him to lead the country.asjohnstone said:Is Boris really that popular? I'd love to see regional subsamples of those favourable/ unfavorable numbers.
I strong suspect he runs up vast numbers in the south and tanks dreadfully the further north you go. Toxic in a FPTP system.
The British prefer to be led by a statesman who knows how to behave in public, we are not Italy or Greece. Who would vote to let their wife near him, vs the same question for Mr Cameron?0 -
Boris can yet make a winning coalition in this referendum.
1. Those who want out of the EU, whatever deal Cameron came back with. A few might sit on their hands because they don't much like Boris's veering towards staying in if we get a better deal. But a very few - at least it is a better direction of travel. And they won't vote Remain.
2. Those who are not virulently anti-EU, but cannot support the deal Cameron back with. They are annoyed with Cameron (who they generally quite like otherwise) for insulting their intelligence. These are the people Remain would have hoped to win back - or at least move to not bothering to vote at all. But with Boris (and Gove) supporting their case, they will be much harder to convince with Project Fear.
3. Those who have doubts about the deal but can't stand the thought of Farage getting all the credit for a Leave vote at the Referendum. Remain would have hoped to win some of these, turn others into non-voters. But the idea of Boris staking a claim to that glory will allow most to vote to Leave, regardless of Farage.
4. Those who have doubts about the deal, but whose fears were calmed by the Prime Minister claiming to have got a good deal. Remain would have calculated these votes were in the bag. But then Boris comes along and says "you were right to have doubts; this deal is a crock. We can do better than this. This is the group that will determine this referendum. Only Boris could have prised them away from Remain. He will also get...
5. ...those with a very slight interest in politics, but who just like Boris - and are prepared to give him a quick listen. This is a good vein to mine, because few others will get their engagement.
That coalition could yet be enough for a narrow Leave win.
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We did this last night. IDS claim is refuted by the available facts.NorfolkTilIDie said:Just saying something is a lie don't substitute for argument. Would terrorist sympathisers from Germany be able to reside in the UK or not if we stay in?
He said staying in made a Paris style attack in London more likely.
London has been attacked many times, but the Paris attackers chose not to.
Because it was "too easy" ?0 -
VoteLeave:
Dear Member of Parliament,
am writing to you, as one of your constituents, to ask you to Vote Leave so we can take back control from the European Union.
The EU referendum is much bigger than party politics, or any election – and people in our area will be very interested to know how you will be voting.
We send £350 million to the EU every week – that's money which could be better spent on our priorities here in our local community. I want to see our laws made by the people we elect – representatives like you – not by unelected politicians and judges in the EU.
Will you join me, and countless others from our local area, to Vote Leave in the EU referendum? This is such an important issue, and your constituents will be looking to see how you vote.
Thank you for your time.
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/email_your_mp?utm_content=bufferdff86&utm_medium=
Spot the missing word.......0 -
Excellent thread header.
To repeat a point I made the other day in a different context, it's like karaoke. Regardless of your private qualms, you've got to belt it out with conviction. How odd that Boris Johnson of all people seems to need telling that.0 -
The new spin is that what Boris meant (as opposed to what he actually said) is "If we leave, the EU will give better terms to a non-member state than they give to member states"CarlottaVance said:@IainDale: So have I got this right? Boris is voting OUT so he can become PM to negotiate for us to stay in, but on better terms. Total f*ckwittery.
Total f*ckwittery doesn't even cover it...0 -
@PCollinsTimes: Johnson's piece is a request to keep he things he likes and lose the things he doesn't. It won't be like that if we leave and he knows it.0
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I'm just glad few pay as much attention as we do
Scott_P said:
The new spin is that what Boris meant (as opposed to what he actually said) is "If we leave, the EU will give better terms to a non-member state than they give to member states"CarlottaVance said:@IainDale: So have I got this right? Boris is voting OUT so he can become PM to negotiate for us to stay in, but on better terms. Total f*ckwittery.
Total f*ckwittery doesn't even cover it...0 -
A letter to the Telegraph nails it - Boris is now the Refereferendum.....Scott_P said:
Total f*ckwittery doesn't even cover it...CarlottaVance said:@IainDale: So have I got this right? Boris is voting OUT so he can become PM to negotiate for us to stay in, but on better terms. Total f*ckwittery.
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The talk of national security being affected by EU membership or otherwise is being completely overblown by both sides. Was it not the PM that started it with his speech announcing the referendum? Disingenuous doesn't cover it.Scott_P said:
We did this last night. IDS claim is refuted by the available facts.NorfolkTilIDie said:Just saying something is a lie don't substitute for argument. Would terrorist sympathisers from Germany be able to reside in the UK or not if we stay in?
He said staying in made a Paris style attack in London more likely.
London has been attacked many times, but the Paris attackers chose not to.
Because it was "too easy" ?
In the EU or out of the EU, we will still co-operate with our neighbours on security matters, we will still check passports at our borders and still use the UN, Interpol and other organisations - as well as our own MI5 and MI6 - continuing to co-operate with other governments worldwide in the protection of citizens and visitors from those who wish them harm. To suggest otherwise is, frankly, bollocks.0 -
It is exactly that. We have discussed it at length on here wrt financial services - do people think that we have more leverage inside or outside the EU to help formulate the rules. My opinion is of course we get more leverage inside.Scott_P said:
The new spin is that what Boris meant (as opposed to what he actually said) is "If we leave, the EU will give better terms to a non-member state than they give to member states"CarlottaVance said:@IainDale: So have I got this right? Boris is voting OUT so he can become PM to negotiate for us to stay in, but on better terms. Total f*ckwittery.
Total f*ckwittery doesn't even cover it...
But as I mentioned upthread, the one unarguable, if perhaps specious position of the Leavers is that the EU plans to ignore no ECU and steamroll us and all our trade and services back to Brussels. That is the crux of the Leave argument: that the EU will force us into ECU despite all the agreements and the directives saying they won't.0 -
Errr, I'm paid in Sterling and have a house in the US with a US Dollar mortgage...Sandpit said:
Great news for those of us who get paid in dollars and have a mortgage in poundsScott_P said:@business: BREAKING: Pound falls 1.6% against dollar - biggest decline in a year https://t.co/qdU0GPzRWt #Brexit https://t.co/eqBSJGqA2x
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I see Ms Sturgeon is inferring that the UK leaving the EU will "inevitably" trigger a new independence referendum.
More than happy for them to be able to decide their own destiny of course. What I have Never quite got my head around is the argument that they want independence because they can't determine their own future while demanding that UK remains fully shackled to Europe but if not, then only to immediately shackle themselves to a group, not of 4 members but 27 who will then determine their destiny.0 -
'We did this last night. IDS claim is refuted by the available facts.
He said staying in made a Paris style attack in London more likely.
London has been attacked many times, but the Paris attackers chose not to.
Because it was "too easy" ?'
What an absurdly facile argument0 -
@GdnPolitics: No Boris, you can't have your Brexit cake and eat it too https://t.co/wuAo4Z2BgY0
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Its a nonsense meme. Johnson is saying clearly we should get a better deal outside the EU. This idea that he is advocating staying in is because journos can't get their heads round the idea that "a deal" doesn't just mean the Cameron variety.Plato_Says said:I'm just glad few pay as much attention as we do
Scott_P said:
The new spin is that what Boris meant (as opposed to what he actually said) is "If we leave, the EU will give better terms to a non-member state than they give to member states"CarlottaVance said:@IainDale: So have I got this right? Boris is voting OUT so he can become PM to negotiate for us to stay in, but on better terms. Total f*ckwittery.
Total f*ckwittery doesn't even cover it...
Everyone saying Johnson wants to ultimately stay in will look very silly within 48 hours, when he puts matter to rest.
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I agree. Boris Johnson's endorsement of Leave does seem to eliminate every negative factor associated with the Leave campaign. And gives cover for centrist Conservative MP's who are unhappy with the deal to campaign against it.MarqueeMark said:Boris can yet make a winning coalition in this referendum.
1. Those who want out of the EU, whatever deal Cameron came back with. A few might sit on their hands because they don't much like Boris's veering towards staying in if we get a better deal. But a very few - at least it is a better direction of travel. And they won't vote Remain.
2. Those who are not virulently anti-EU, but cannot support the deal Cameron back with. They are annoyed with Cameron (who they generally quite like otherwise) for insulting their intelligence. These are the people Remain would have hoped to win back - or at least move to not bothering to vote at all. But with Boris (and Gove) supporting their case, they will be much harder to convince with Project Fear.
3. Those who have doubts about the deal but can't stand the thought of Farage getting all the credit for a Leave vote at the Referendum. Remain would have hoped to win some of these, turn others into non-voters. But the idea of Boris staking a claim to that glory will allow most to vote to Leave, regardless of Farage.
4. Those who have doubts about the deal, but whose fears were calmed by the Prime Minister claiming to have got a good deal. Remain would have calculated these votes were in the bag. But then Boris comes along and says "you were right to have doubts; this deal is a crock. We can do better than this. This is the group that will determine this referendum. Only Boris could have prised them away from Remain. He will also get...
5. ...those with a very slight interest in politics, but who just like Boris - and are prepared to give him a quick listen. This is a good vein to mine, because few others will get their engagement.
That coalition could yet be enough for a narrow Leave win.0 -
Remain has to go big on this. It has few other weapons with which to get voters' attention. But it is no knock-out punch.Sandpit said:
The talk of national security being affected by EU membership or otherwise is being completely overblown by both sides. Was it not the PM that started it with his speech announcing the referendum? Disingenuous doesn't cover it.Scott_P said:
We did this last night. IDS claim is refuted by the available facts.NorfolkTilIDie said:Just saying something is a lie don't substitute for argument. Would terrorist sympathisers from Germany be able to reside in the UK or not if we stay in?
He said staying in made a Paris style attack in London more likely.
London has been attacked many times, but the Paris attackers chose not to.
Because it was "too easy" ?
In the EU or out of the EU, we will still co-operate with our neighbours on security matters, we will still check passports at our borders and still use the UN, Interpol and other organisations - as well as our own MI5 and MI6 - continuing to co-operate with other governments worldwide in the protection of citizens and visitors from those who wish them harm. To suggest otherwise is, frankly, bollocks.0 -
Not so great news for you then!rcs1000 said:
Errr, I'm paid in Sterling and have a house in the US with a US Dollar mortgage...Sandpit said:
Great news for those of us who get paid in dollars and have a mortgage in poundsScott_P said:@business: BREAKING: Pound falls 1.6% against dollar - biggest decline in a year https://t.co/qdU0GPzRWt #Brexit https://t.co/eqBSJGqA2x
But to be realistic, both of us are in very small minorities. Most people notice the exchange rate only in the price of fuel and the price of foreign holidays - unless it changes dramatically and causes general inflation in the price of imported goods.0 -
And that is risible.NorfolkTilIDie said:Johnson is saying clearly we should get a better deal outside the EU.
The EU will give better terms to a non-member than members? And pigs might fly out of my butt0 -
That’s when the wholly ridiculous contradiction arises because whilst many nationalists support staying in the EU many more want another vote on separation and currently the only way their leader says that’s going to happen quickly is through a UK ‘Leave’ vote. But irony of ironies, that same leader says she’s going to campaign remorselessly against that ‘Leave’ vote – thus, presumably, helping to make that ‘indy’ vote an even more distant prospect......Moses_ said:I see Ms Sturgeon is inferring that the UK leaving the EU will "inevitably" trigger a new independence referendum.
More than happy for them to be able to decide their own destiny of course. What I have Never quite got my head around is the argument that they want independence because they can't determine their own future while demanding that UK remains fully shackled to Europe but if not, then only to immediately shackle themselves to a group, not of 4 members but 27 who will then determine their destiny.
It’s all very confusing and in many ways contradictory for my nationalist friends. But then that’s not really a new situation for them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/12167435/Sturgeons-confused-and-confusing-message-on-Brexit.html0 -
Why is Jude Law demanding we do something about Calais when the entire situation resides in a sovereign state of the EU and the cause and the outcome. is nothing to do with us whatsoever.
Message to Jude Law... Fuck off.0 -
What Bozza knows - and a lot of Peebies seem to have forgotten - is that if REMAIN wins it will do so on left-wing votes. All that LEAVE has to ask is this: "do you want Jeremy Corbyn running the country without even being elected?" And bang on about it daily.0
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Johnson writes:
"If the “Leave” side wins, it will indeed be necessary to negotiate a large number of trade deals at great speed. But why should that be impossible? We have become so used to Nanny in Brussels that we have become infantilised, incapable of imagining an independent future. We used to run the biggest empire the world has ever seen, and with a much smaller domestic population and a relatively tiny Civil Service. Are we really unable to do trade deals? We will have at least two years in which the existing treaties will be in force."
Why would we be negotiating new trade deals as speed if we were staying In?? Why would he be referring explicitly to the two year time frame mentioned by Article 50??
Remain supporters have got themselves flustered in their panic and misinterpreted him.0 -
Jerry Hayes? Jerry Hayes! calling someone a hypocritical copperbottomed little shit??Roger said:The point about Boris's populsrity is that it's been gained by being a maverick. A loner. Someone who zigs when everyone else zags. Yesterday this was all about Boris the free thinker doing just that.
From tomorrow it's all change. Boris can no longer just be Boris. He's joined the mainstream and chosen a side and previous chums aren't holding back. Last night on radio 5 i heard a taste of things to come. Sweet roly-poly Boris was no more. He'd committed the cardinal Tory sin of being disloyal and they slaughtererd him.
http://jerryhayes.co.uk/posts/2016/02/21/boris-is-a-copper-bottomed-double-dealing-hypocritical-little-shit-the-press-will-destroy-him
Well, it takes ones to know one, I guess0 -
Yup! On this he certainly takes the biscuitScott_P said:@GdnPolitics: No Boris, you can't have your Brexit cake and eat it too https://t.co/wuAo4Z2BgY
* takes cover and peeps out from behind sofa*0 -
Depends on your preferences. Canada gets a better deal than we do. All depends whether you think political union is good idea or not.Scott_P said:
And that is risible.NorfolkTilIDie said:Johnson is saying clearly we should get a better deal outside the EU.
The EU will give better terms to a non-member than members? And pigs might fly out of my butt0 -
The Remainders are generally putting forward surprisingly poor arguments. It seems to boil down to "Yay! The Prime Minister got a great deal. Because, er, the Prime Minister said so. But the other side are ugly. And probably smell of wee."runnymede said:'We did this last night. IDS claim is refuted by the available facts.
He said staying in made a Paris style attack in London more likely.
London has been attacked many times, but the Paris attackers chose not to.
Because it was "too easy" ?'
What an absurdly facile argument0 -
The terms that the PM came back with don't amount to a row of beans.Scott_P said:
And that is risible.NorfolkTilIDie said:Johnson is saying clearly we should get a better deal outside the EU.
The EU will give better terms to a non-member than members? And pigs might fly out of my butt0 -
Tommy Sheridan has come out for Leave on his Twitter account0
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Another so-called journalist who either can't read or can't understand what he reads...CarlottaVance said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/21/boris-johnson-dubbed-vick_n_9287194.htmlScott_P said:
He needs to answer the Vicky Pollard question.Casino_Royale said:Boris also needs to get a team of very good advisors around him.
Today.
@IainDale: So have I got this right? Boris is voting OUT so he can become PM to negotiate for us to stay in, but on better terms. Total f*ckwittery.0
