politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Our thoughts tonight are simply with the people of Paris
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It wasn't "Is Paris Burning?" by any chance?Casino_Royale said:I've been watching a film all evening. Only just caught up on the news.
I can't believe it.0 -
Dealing with IS means backing Assad. Someone needs to tell Obama.RobD said:
We (the West) need to grow a backbone and deal with IS in Syria and Iraq.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
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This'll go down like a cup of cold sick, but you could argue that soldiers are more legitimate targets than civilians. Saying that, the IRA targeted both. I suspect when the final figures are announced, it'll be far worse than any IRA attack.TheScreamingEagles said:
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.RobD said:
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.david_herdson said:
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.Richard_Nabavi said:
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.Cyclefree said:Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
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You're fine.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alas no, they were very sober shoes.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Just to lighten things. Was it your shoes?TheScreamingEagles said:
I also noticed they were looking at me very closely.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Christian Fraser @ChristianFraser 10m10 minutes agoTheScreamingEagles said:
When I was in Paris a few weeks ago, I noticed a much more visible Police presence at Gare du Nord and other touristy places.watford30 said:
The Gendarmerie are a paramilitary force. They'll likely be reinforced with regular troops at sensitive sites.TheWhiteRabbit said:
You can mobilise the regulars, linguistically speaking; not all regularly are war-ready at any particular time.flightpath01 said:
I agree. I am not sure to what extent Schengen is directly relevant but this on top of the clear change in the whole picture of mass movements of ultimately millions of people shows it is a busted flush.watford30 said:That's the end of Schengen.
The French Army are mobilising.
On a pedantic point I am not sure 'mobilising' is the right word, unless the French are indeed calling up reservists.
Paris was already at highest level of alert. The French army guarding train stations, synagogues, tourist sites. Dreading the next attack/s
Judging by what I'm reading on twitter, I'm likely to get deported along with every other Muslim in the country, so enjoy my shoes whilst you can.0 -
At the risk of being an apologist, a paramilitary organisation with definable political objectives is very different from what we face now.TheScreamingEagles said:
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.RobD said:
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.david_herdson said:
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.Richard_Nabavi said:
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.Cyclefree said:Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
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I think they were expecting something for a while, as I said I was there in Paris end of October and there were a lot of Police out and about and taking no shit.watford30 said:I’m impressed by the French. They didn’t hang about once the attacks kicked off.
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On this subject you are, yes.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'm naive? LOL!Floater said:
You are very, very naive - there is a global problem and has been for years.Richard_Nabavi said:
The IRA were more sophisticated. They almost managed to bump off the UK government. They also lobbed mortars at No 10.Floater said:Richard - this is nothing less than a clash of "civilizations" - to compare the current situation to the IRA is frankly laughable.
Look, I've been one of those arguing for us not to under-estimate the threat of terrorist attacks, arguing against people who have complacently said that the risk is not a big deal. But equally, we need to keep a sense of perspective. This is not the Blitz.0 -
Slackbladder said:
They threw explosives at hostages..... I have no words
The French police are reporting that it is carnage inside the theatre.
God help them.
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Associated Press / Sky news
Reporting terrorists threw explosives at the hostages as police stormed in. Sounds like the 5 explosions were the terrorists then.
Just appalling just terrible.
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Bloody Friday, 1972 - 20 bombs in an hour and 20 minutes. Nine dead, 130 injured.RobD said:
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.david_herdson said:
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.Richard_Nabavi said:
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.Cyclefree said:Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
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I stand corrected. Blimey.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Bloody Friday, 1972 - 20 bombs in eight minutes. Nine dead, 130 injured.RobD said:
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.david_herdson said:
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.Richard_Nabavi said:
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.Cyclefree said:Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
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France 24 now talking about 80 - 90 dead.0
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@SouthamObserver and @Y0kel thanks for your replies, they are much appreciated.
My thoughts and prayers goes out to all the French people, to have all these attacks occur in a single year must incredibly traumatic.0 -
I think the worst was a bomb placed by Unionists in Dublin.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.david_herdson said:
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.Richard_Nabavi said:
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.Cyclefree said:Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
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80 minutes sorry! But still...RobD said:
I stand corrected. Blimey.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Bloody Friday, 1972 - 20 bombs in eighty minutes. Nine dead, 130 injured.RobD said:
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.david_herdson said:
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.Richard_Nabavi said:
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.Cyclefree said:Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
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@JeremyCliffe: Crowd at Stade de France sings national anthem during evacuation https://t.co/gh7OOiOxYV0
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I know what you mean, is something that needs to said with a lot of nuance.RobD said:
This'll go down like a cup of cold sick, but you could argue that soldiers are more legitimate targets than civilians. Saying that, the IRA targeted both. I suspect when the final figures are announced, it'll be far worse than any IRA attack.TheScreamingEagles said:
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.RobD said:
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.david_herdson said:
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.Richard_Nabavi said:
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.Cyclefree said:Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
It was the Warrenpoint ambush and 18 British soliders were killed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrenpoint_ambush0 -
Warrenpoint. 2 attacks, the second on the soldiers who arrived on scene to deal with the aftermath of the first explosion.TheScreamingEagles said:
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.RobD said:
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.david_herdson said:
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.Richard_Nabavi said:
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.Cyclefree said:Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
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People mentioning IS – is it pure supposition?0
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With the best will in the world can the concept of refugees and asylum seekers survive much more of this? When does the risk become unacceptable?
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.0 -
Yes, Warrenpoint, 1979 - 18 Paras and other soldiers dead, plus a British tourist killed by friendly fire. Then County Sligo, Lord Louis and two others aboard his boat.TheScreamingEagles said:
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.RobD said:
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.david_herdson said:
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.Richard_Nabavi said:
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.Cyclefree said:Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
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Downthread I explained why such an early strike is actually considered to be a top of the list option. The UK know this practice as well.MikeK said:
Agree with you there. The British are prone to faf about for hours before deciding what to do, for fear of offending someone or making a mistake.watford30 said:I’m impressed by the French. They didn’t hang about once the attacks kicked off.
There isn't anything original about it.0 -
It should happen, simply out of solidarity, though l'equipe is reporting it's postponed.isam said:England vs France on Tuesday night looks like being a non runner
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Tim Ramadan @tim_ramadangeoffw said:
CNN is reporting one attacker has been captured and claims to be recruited by #ISIS along with 3 others coming from #Syria. #ParisAttacks
3:20 PM - 13 Nov 20150 -
Over a 100 dead in the theatre - RIP0
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A tweet from Jesse Hughes, lead singer of the Eagles of Death Metal, three days ago...
https://twitter.com/radioboots/status/6641260712232714240 -
If thats the case... Europe is going to explode.RobD said:
Tim Ramadan @tim_ramadangeoffw said:
CNN is reporting one attacker has been captured and claims to be recruited by #ISIS along with 3 others coming from #Syria. #ParisAttacks
3:20 PM - 13 Nov 20150 -
I don't understand how other human beings can be so utterly evil.Moses_ said:Associated Press / Sky news
Reporting terrorists threw explosives at the hostages as police stormed in. Sounds like the 5 explosions were the terrorists then.
Just appalling just terrible.
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As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?0 -
Hollande now going over to see the sites.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 29s29 seconds ago
Update - Sky Sources: French President Francois #Hollande is travelling to the scene of one of the attacks in #Paris0 -
I bet she is.Moses_ said:Merkel
She is deeply shaken by the attacks. Sky news.0 -
Bloody hell....Floater said:Over a 100 dead in the theatre - RIP
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It's worth remembering that many many refugees and asylum seekers are escaping from nutters like these.DavidL said:With the best will in the world can the concept of refugees and asylum seekers survive much more of this? When does the risk become unacceptable?
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.0 -
Telegraph confirms
100 dead at Bataclan
Police state 100 people were killed in the attack on Bataclan concert hall.
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French Foreign ministers Airports to remain open and trains running.0
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This sounds uncomfortably like the USA gun lobby justification for carrying guns.TheScreamingEagles said:@newtgingrich: Imagine a theater with 10 or 15 citizens with concealed carry permits. We live in an age when evil men have to be killed by good people
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We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?0 -
BFM
Up to 100 dead in concert hall0 -
This has got to be a turning point, surely? Over 100 dead...0
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GeoffW - Esatablished as probable, if not 100% certain IS-related about 2-3 hours agoAndyJS said:
Who else could it possibly be?geoffw said:People mentioning IS – is it pure supposition?
FPT
'Some sources related to IS are apparently expressing joy about events in Paris.
We will know for sure the attack source and motivation within 6 hours. '
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Sky reporting 100 dead inside the theatre.....
Oh dear God.0 -
Correct. The IRA, whatever you may think of them, had their own "Geneva convention" when it came to their attacks, and civilians, although they became victims, were not directly targetted.williamglenn said:
At the risk of being an apologist, a paramilitary organisation with definable political objectives is very different from what we face now.TheScreamingEagles said:
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.RobD said:
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.david_herdson said:
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.Richard_Nabavi said:
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.Cyclefree said:Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
These people have no definable objectives other than our destruction, the end in itself.0 -
It was a Roger Moore James Bond film, and I was laughing away with my wife.Tim_B said:
It wasn't "Is Paris Burning?" by any chance?Casino_Royale said:I've been watching a film all evening. Only just caught up on the news.
I can't believe it.
Which feels very flippant now.0 -
We did both by doing what was needed, which was also some nasty stuff, can we do that now?TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?0 -
BBC now saying that 100 people dead at the Bataclan Theatre. If so it means that the Islamists killed most of them.0
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Yeah, unlike the IRA, they wouldn't even dream of phoning in a bomb warning.RodCrosby said:
Correct. The IRA, whatever you may think of them, had their own "Geneva convention" when it came to their attacks, and civilians, although they became victims, were not directly targetted.williamglenn said:
At the risk of being an apologist, a paramilitary organisation with definable political objectives is very different from what we face now.TheScreamingEagles said:
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.RobD said:
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.david_herdson said:
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.Richard_Nabavi said:
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.Cyclefree said:Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
These people have no definable objectives other than our destruction, the end in itself.0 -
Yes I know. But how do we tell? How do we keep our own people safe? That is the first duty of governments and they have failed.Pong said:
It's worth remembering that many many refugees and asylum seekers are escaping from nutters like these.DavidL said:With the best will in the world can the concept of refugees and asylum seekers survive much more of this? When does the risk become unacceptable?
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.0 -
Where are JEO and Socrates? I miss posters like them at times like these.0
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We appeased the Nazis for a while then we defeated them. I have faith we can do that again.Slackbladder said:
We did both by doing what was needed, which was also some nasty stuff, can we do that now?TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?0 -
If we don't we're doomed.Slackbladder said:
We did both by doing what was needed, which was also some nasty stuff, can we do that now?TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?0 -
Sky saying 140 dead in total with many injured.
RIP
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Plus porous borders and relatively easy access to automatic weapons.SouthamObserver said:
Very, very big, long-established Moslem population with close links to North Africa and Middle East. A lot of disaffected second and third generation young men. Lots of places to hide.The_Apocalypse said:
I hope so. At this stage I feel like we should be closing our borders too, it feels like we've been unbelievably lucky not to have an ISIS related attack here.Y0kel said:
The kernel of the failure of IS as a directed and effective unit and movement is already in evidence. Much of it will be self inflicted.The_Apocalypse said:I refuse to believe that ISIS will win this war. We simply can't let them, and if all the European countries + America unite together, I'm sure we can win this war.
But why France? Why does do these attacks keep happening there?0 -
I think the tide is about to turn and those who use the racist card will be regarded as abetting the enemy.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
It's got to the point where those who bleat "racist" are no different than those in 1938/9 who regarded the Nazis as somewhat misunderstood modernisers of a hard-done-by proud country.0 -
Amen.TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?0 -
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?0 -
Would have been more difficult if there'd been whole towns in England full of Germans with british passports some of whom were nazis, others who sympathised, but it wasn't the done thing to air suspicionsTheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?0 -
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And many are just escaping because they are on the wrong side of brain dead islamic militantism. They believe in islamic miltanitism, just not the people doing it right now.Pong said:
It's worth remembering that many many refugees and asylum seekers are escaping from nutters like these.DavidL said:With the best will in the world can the concept of refugees and asylum seekers survive much more of this? When does the risk become unacceptable?
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.
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Any response from CAGE?0
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read your pathetic comments. I have no wish to debate further with you on this.Richard_Nabavi said:
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How about all people who live in the UK who clearly are terrorist sympathizers (don't care what religion they are) are either imprisoned or exiled.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
Anyone like to argue against that?
Oh and human rights lawyers who are clearly taking the Michael to lose their professional status.0 -
Calling me 'clueless', and my comments 'pathetic', having completely misunderstood what I wrote, is not 'debating' with me.Floater said:
read your pathetic comments. I have no wish to debate further with you on this.Richard_Nabavi said:0 -
It appears it's turned into a massacre. This will fundamentally change Europe now. The chilling thing is that it will one day happen here.0
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I'll never forget that I was in Madrid on 7/7 and the aftermath.Casino_Royale said:
Amen.TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
The Spaniards couldn't understand how calmly Londoners carried on, almost like nothing had happened, which was in stark contrast to the Spanish reaction to the Madrid bombings a year earlier.
It was quietly explained to them this how we are, we keep calm and carry on, is why we've not known fascism or communism running our country.
We need that resolve and stoicism again.0 -
Its only a matter of time. This will become more, not less common.TwistedFireStopper said:It appears it's turned into a massacre. This will fundamentally change Europe now. The chilling thing is that it will one day happen here.
0 -
Worth maybe reposting the following post downthread as it will be interesting to see if subsequent information proves out that the French authorities were on a firm early track.
'I'm woefully lacking in detail here but it looks as if the French authorities have:
a) identified a watch lister who isn't at home
b) an initial thought not all the perpetrators are French
This is early days and they will be working through such a stream of data and ideas that things will come to the front and then be replaced but we'll see.'0 -
It did, a decade ago.TwistedFireStopper said:It appears it's turned into a massacre. This will fundamentally change Europe now. The chilling thing is that it will one day happen here.
0 -
Like Corbyn? according to Dave he's the biggest threat to british security.CornishBlue said:
How about all people who live in the UK who clearly are terrorist sympathizers (don't care what religion they are) are either imprisoned or exiled.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
Anyone like to argue against that?
Oh and human rights lawyers who are clearly taking the Michael to lose their professional status.0 -
Nah, we just need to run Double Cross system againEh_ehm_a_eh said:
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?0 -
The french went on a huge march post Charlie Hebdo. Didnt help them tonight.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'll never forget that I was in Madrid on 7/7 and the aftermath.Casino_Royale said:
Amen.TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
The Spaniards couldn't understand how calmly Londoners carried on, almost like nothing had happened, which was in stark contrast to the Spanish reaction to the Madrid bombings a year earlier.
It was quietly explained to them this how we are, we keep calm and carry on, is why we've not known fascism or communism running our country.
We need that resolve and stoicism again.0 -
I'm still hopeful it won't happen here. After 7/7 people said it would happen again before long but we've had more than a decade without any serious attacks.TwistedFireStopper said:It appears it's turned into a massacre. This will fundamentally change Europe now. The chilling thing is that it will one day happen here.
0 -
Moslem Camp at Calais now burning in possible revenge attack by locals. (BBC)0
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https://twitter.com/WBRCnews/status/665315987659599872Pong said:
It's worth remembering that many many refugees and asylum seekers are escaping from nutters like these.DavidL said:With the best will in the world can the concept of refugees and asylum seekers survive much more of this? When does the risk become unacceptable?
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.
This is huge if true. So huge it goes beyond comprehension.0 -
Could any of these Jihadists ever be turned?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, we just need to run Double Cross system againEh_ehm_a_eh said:
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?0 -
It did, indeed, but we've never had an active shooter terrorist incident in this country on a scale that France or India has suffered. But we will.Tim_B said:
It did, a decade ago.TwistedFireStopper said:It appears it's turned into a massacre. This will fundamentally change Europe now. The chilling thing is that it will one day happen here.
0 -
But they have tried .... again and again and again.AndyJS said:
I'm still hopeful it won't happen here. After 7/7 people said it would happen again before long but we've had more than a decade without any serious attacks.TwistedFireStopper said:It appears it's turned into a massacre. This will fundamentally change Europe now. The chilling thing is that it will one day happen here.
0 -
And how do you tell the difference?Pong said:
It's worth remembering that many many refugees and asylum seekers are escaping from nutters like these.DavidL said:With the best will in the world can the concept of refugees and asylum seekers survive much more of this? When does the risk become unacceptable?
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.
Remember that they can come as refugees and turn into terrorists, as Jihadi John did.
Why take the risk? Governments have a duty to their own citizens above all.
0 -
It's a bit early but I wonder what went wrong with the concert rescue attempt. Maybe they should have gone in sooner.0
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An interesting post on the Figaro live blog:
Des attaques simultanées, une prise d'otages, menées par plusieurs tireurs et au moins un kamikaze: c'est le scénario-cauchemar, que craignaient depuis des mois les services antiterroristes, qui s'est déclenché vendredi soir à Paris.
Au cours des dernières semaines, responsables et experts avaient prévenu que des attentats islamistes, d'une ampleur sans précédent, se préparaient contre la France et seraient quasiment impossibles à déjouer.
"Le thermomètre grimpe. Aujourd'hui, leur but est de tenir dans le temps, pour que les médias puissent s'accrocher à l'événement, le diffuser en direct pour un maximum de publicité", confiait récemment, sous couvert d'anonymat, un haut responsable de la lutte antiterroriste. "Nous craignons désormais des attaques à la kalachnikov, qui vont durer".
i.e. the French have been expecting attacks like this for several weeks.0 -
I just don't know.RobD said:This has got to be a turning point, surely? Over 100 dead...
Terrible things like this happen. Rigby, London, Madrid, 9/11, Charlie Hebdo.. We're extremely shocked, and very angry for a few days..
And then life seems to go on.
I don't know if we're becoming hardened to it, but I just don't know if there will be a political gearshift or not.
I'm not holding my breath for the European continent. If it does happen, it'll be based on the electorate not those in charge at the moment. I think it'd take the actual election of politicians on the right/far-right for that.
In the UK, it might mean more resources for GCHQ/MI5/MI6 in the Defence Review, with a further beefing up of special forces and RAF strike forces. Theresa May's bill will sail through, Parliament and there could be further security measures to come over the next few months.
It could affect the Syria vote, if Cameron pushes for it again, but the choices there are very simple and, unpleasant, now: Asad or ISIS.0 -
Hopefully it kicks us into action in Syria. Maybe with this and the airliner bomb, there can be a coordinated international approach (UK, US, EU, Russia)?notme said:
https://twitter.com/WBRCnews/status/665315987659599872Pong said:
It's worth remembering that many many refugees and asylum seekers are escaping from nutters like these.DavidL said:With the best will in the world can the concept of refugees and asylum seekers survive much more of this? When does the risk become unacceptable?
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.
This is huge if true. So huge it goes beyond comprehension.0 -
We've done it in the pastRobD said:
Could any of these Jihadists ever be turned?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, we just need to run Double Cross system againEh_ehm_a_eh said:
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?TheScreamingEagles said:
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.Casino_Royale said:
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.CornishBlue said:
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.SouthamObserver said:The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
http://www.theweek.co.uk/62771/mi5-double-agent-offers-rare-insight-into-al-qaeda-and-jihad0 -
Now reporting on French TV that the death toll for the Bataclan may be revised down to 70. The 100 figure is for all attacks combined. That is my rough translation so may need checking0
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Did they die during the rescue attempt? I thought it was due to the attackers throwing grenades in there, which would do some pretty bad damage in an enclosed space.AndyJS said:It's a bit early but I wonder what went wrong with the concert rescue attempt. Maybe they should have gone in sooner.
0 -
Accepting my ignorance of French laws on surveillance, I would suggest that any failure of surveillance should not lead to us dropping our guard or failing to doing our best to pick up whatever intelligence we can by whatever means lies within our grasp, subject to safeguards exercised by the judiciary.Richard_Tyndall said:
Perhaps it would help if you realised that the French already have the snooping laws you are trying to support in the UK and it has made not a blind bit of difference. The French authorities have far more power over the population than we have in the UK and what good has that done them?ReggieCide said:
I don't understand how objections would survive but they will, from the usual suspects.Slackbladder said:
On the basis of fhis let the intelligence services have every single thing they bloody well need.AndyJS said:
It's concerning they could do this without being infiltrated by the security services or having their communications hacked.Slackbladder said:This is a huge attack. Multiple people, clearly a large network. How can this happen ?
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Ha! That's what it was like for centuries and what should be the case. But these days it is obviously demonstrable that our governments in the West couldn't care less about the people who live in their own countries. Which, when you consider that they're democratically elected, is all the more incredible.Cyclefree said:
And how do you tell the difference?Pong said:
It's worth remembering that many many refugees and asylum seekers are escaping from nutters like these.DavidL said:With the best will in the world can the concept of refugees and asylum seekers survive much more of this? When does the risk become unacceptable?
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.
Remember that they can come as refugees and turn into terrorists, as Jihadi John did.
Why take the risk? Governments have a duty to their own citizens above all.
Time to wake up people!!0 -
How would bombing Syria have prevented this attack?RobD said:
Hopefully it kicks us into action in Syria. Maybe with this and the airliner bomb, there can be a coordinated international approach (UK, US, EU, Russia)?notme said:
https://twitter.com/WBRCnews/status/665315987659599872Pong said:
It's worth remembering that many many refugees and asylum seekers are escaping from nutters like these.DavidL said:With the best will in the world can the concept of refugees and asylum seekers survive much more of this? When does the risk become unacceptable?
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.
This is huge if true. So huge it goes beyond comprehension.0 -
The version I heard was 70 dead and a further 30 injured at Bataclan.Richard_Tyndall said:Now reporting on French TV that the death toll for the Bataclan may be revised down to 70. The 100 figure is for all attacks combined. That is my rough translation so may need checking
Apparently there's a mistranslation somewhere about what casualties actually means by the look of it.0 -
It would mean the establishment admitting they were wrong, and the people they have been calling scaremongers and racists for 40 years were right... Won't happen, they'd rather let the whole place go up in flamesCasino_Royale said:
I just don't know.RobD said:This has got to be a turning point, surely? Over 100 dead...
Terrible things like this happen. Rigby, London, Madrid, 9/11, Charlie Hebdo.. We're extremely shocked, and very angry for a few days..
And then life seems to go on.
I don't know if we're becoming hardened to it, but I just don't know if there will be a political gearshift or not.
I'm not holding my breath for the European continent. If it does happen, it'll be based on the electorate not those in charge at the moment. I think it'd take the actual election of politicians on the right/far-right for that.
In the UK, it might mean more resources for GCHQ/MI5/MI6 in the Defence Review, with a further beefing up of special forces and RAF strike forces. Theresa May's bill will sail through, Parliament and there could be further security measures to come over the next few months.
It could affect the Syria vote, if Cameron pushes for it again, but the choices there are very simple and, unpleasant, now: Asad or ISIS.0
This discussion has been closed.