The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
We (the West) need to grow a backbone and deal with IS in Syria and Iraq.
Dealing with IS means backing Assad. Someone needs to tell Obama.
Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.
This'll go down like a cup of cold sick, but you could argue that soldiers are more legitimate targets than civilians. Saying that, the IRA targeted both. I suspect when the final figures are announced, it'll be far worse than any IRA attack.
I agree. I am not sure to what extent Schengen is directly relevant but this on top of the clear change in the whole picture of mass movements of ultimately millions of people shows it is a busted flush.
On a pedantic point I am not sure 'mobilising' is the right word, unless the French are indeed calling up reservists.
You can mobilise the regulars, linguistically speaking; not all regularly are war-ready at any particular time.
The Gendarmerie are a paramilitary force. They'll likely be reinforced with regular troops at sensitive sites.
When I was in Paris a few weeks ago, I noticed a much more visible Police presence at Gare du Nord and other touristy places.
Christian Fraser @ChristianFraser 10m10 minutes ago Paris was already at highest level of alert. The French army guarding train stations, synagogues, tourist sites. Dreading the next attack/s
I also noticed they were looking at me very closely.
Just to lighten things. Was it your shoes?
Alas no, they were very sober shoes.
Judging by what I'm reading on twitter, I'm likely to get deported along with every other Muslim in the country, so enjoy my shoes whilst you can.
Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.
At the risk of being an apologist, a paramilitary organisation with definable political objectives is very different from what we face now.
Richard - this is nothing less than a clash of "civilizations" - to compare the current situation to the IRA is frankly laughable.
The IRA were more sophisticated. They almost managed to bump off the UK government. They also lobbed mortars at No 10.
Look, I've been one of those arguing for us not to under-estimate the threat of terrorist attacks, arguing against people who have complacently said that the risk is not a big deal. But equally, we need to keep a sense of perspective. This is not the Blitz.
You are very, very naive - there is a global problem and has been for years.
I’m impressed by the French. They didn’t hang about once the attacks kicked off.
I think they were expecting something for a while, as I said I was there in Paris end of October and there were a lot of Police out and about and taking no shit.
Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.
Bloody Friday, 1972 - 20 bombs in an hour and 20 minutes. Nine dead, 130 injured.
Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.
Bloody Friday, 1972 - 20 bombs in eight minutes. Nine dead, 130 injured.
Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.
I think the worst was a bomb placed by Unionists in Dublin.
Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.
Bloody Friday, 1972 - 20 bombs in eighty minutes. Nine dead, 130 injured.
Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.
This'll go down like a cup of cold sick, but you could argue that soldiers are more legitimate targets than civilians. Saying that, the IRA targeted both. I suspect when the final figures are announced, it'll be far worse than any IRA attack.
I know what you mean, is something that needs to said with a lot of nuance.
It was the Warrenpoint ambush and 18 British soliders were killed
Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.
Warrenpoint. 2 attacks, the second on the soldiers who arrived on scene to deal with the aftermath of the first explosion.
Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.
Yes, Warrenpoint, 1979 - 18 Paras and other soldiers dead, plus a British tourist killed by friendly fire. Then County Sligo, Lord Louis and two others aboard his boat.
One of those arrested said he was a member of ISIS. Not sure if they have a formal membership structure though.
There have been arrests?
Tim Ramadan @tim_ramadan CNN is reporting one attacker has been captured and claims to be recruited by #ISIS along with 3 others coming from #Syria. #ParisAttacks 3:20 PM - 13 Nov 2015
One of those arrested said he was a member of ISIS. Not sure if they have a formal membership structure though.
There have been arrests?
Tim Ramadan @tim_ramadan CNN is reporting one attacker has been captured and claims to be recruited by #ISIS along with 3 others coming from #Syria. #ParisAttacks 3:20 PM - 13 Nov 2015
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 29s29 seconds ago Update - Sky Sources: French President Francois #Hollande is travelling to the scene of one of the attacks in #Paris
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.
At the risk of being an apologist, a paramilitary organisation with definable political objectives is very different from what we face now.
Correct. The IRA, whatever you may think of them, had their own "Geneva convention" when it came to their attacks, and civilians, although they became victims, were not directly targetted.
These people have no definable objectives other than our destruction, the end in itself.
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
We did both by doing what was needed, which was also some nasty stuff, can we do that now?
Yes - but also fight back and defeat this evil. Not just endure it. Long past the time for us to stoically endure this evil. We need to hit back hard and defeat it. I'm not prepared to let European civilization go down without a fight.
Now now, keep a sense of perspective! This is a very nasty set of terrorist attacks, like the IRA bombings of the 70s and 80s, but it's not the end of civilisation.
This is substantially more deadly than anything the IRA did.
Worst single outrage during the Troubles was Omagh, 1998 - 29 dead.
That was one big bomb, wasn't it. I can't recall an IRA attack where multiple targets are hit simultaneously.
When they assassinated Lord Mountbatten they also killed a lot of British soldiers the same day in a separate incident is the one I recall.
At the risk of being an apologist, a paramilitary organisation with definable political objectives is very different from what we face now.
Correct. The IRA, whatever you may think of them, had their own "Geneva convention" when it came to their attacks, and civilians, although they became victims, were not directly targetted.
These people have no definable objectives other than our destruction, the end in itself.
Yeah, unlike the IRA, they wouldn't even dream of phoning in a bomb warning.
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
We did both by doing what was needed, which was also some nasty stuff, can we do that now?
We appeased the Nazis for a while then we defeated them. I have faith we can do that again.
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
We did both by doing what was needed, which was also some nasty stuff, can we do that now?
I refuse to believe that ISIS will win this war. We simply can't let them, and if all the European countries + America unite together, I'm sure we can win this war.
The kernel of the failure of IS as a directed and effective unit and movement is already in evidence. Much of it will be self inflicted.
I hope so. At this stage I feel like we should be closing our borders too, it feels like we've been unbelievably lucky not to have an ISIS related attack here.
But why France? Why does do these attacks keep happening there?
Very, very big, long-established Moslem population with close links to North Africa and Middle East. A lot of disaffected second and third generation young men. Lots of places to hide.
Plus porous borders and relatively easy access to automatic weapons.
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
I think the tide is about to turn and those who use the racist card will be regarded as abetting the enemy.
It's got to the point where those who bleat "racist" are no different than those in 1938/9 who regarded the Nazis as somewhat misunderstood modernisers of a hard-done-by proud country.
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
Would have been more difficult if there'd been whole towns in England full of Germans with british passports some of whom were nazis, others who sympathised, but it wasn't the done thing to air suspicions
With the best will in the world can the concept of refugees and asylum seekers survive much more of this? When does the risk become unacceptable?
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.
It's worth remembering that many many refugees and asylum seekers are escaping from nutters like these.
And many are just escaping because they are on the wrong side of brain dead islamic militantism. They believe in islamic miltanitism, just not the people doing it right now.
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?
How about all people who live in the UK who clearly are terrorist sympathizers (don't care what religion they are) are either imprisoned or exiled.
Anyone like to argue against that?
Oh and human rights lawyers who are clearly taking the Michael to lose their professional status.
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
Amen.
I'll never forget that I was in Madrid on 7/7 and the aftermath.
The Spaniards couldn't understand how calmly Londoners carried on, almost like nothing had happened, which was in stark contrast to the Spanish reaction to the Madrid bombings a year earlier.
It was quietly explained to them this how we are, we keep calm and carry on, is why we've not known fascism or communism running our country.
Worth maybe reposting the following post downthread as it will be interesting to see if subsequent information proves out that the French authorities were on a firm early track.
'I'm woefully lacking in detail here but it looks as if the French authorities have:
a) identified a watch lister who isn't at home b) an initial thought not all the perpetrators are French
This is early days and they will be working through such a stream of data and ideas that things will come to the front and then be replaced but we'll see.'
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?
How about all people who live in the UK who clearly are terrorist sympathizers (don't care what religion they are) are either imprisoned or exiled.
Anyone like to argue against that?
Oh and human rights lawyers who are clearly taking the Michael to lose their professional status.
Like Corbyn? according to Dave he's the biggest threat to british security.
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?
Nah, we just need to run Double Cross system again
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
Amen.
I'll never forget that I was in Madrid on 7/7 and the aftermath.
The Spaniards couldn't understand how calmly Londoners carried on, almost like nothing had happened, which was in stark contrast to the Spanish reaction to the Madrid bombings a year earlier.
It was quietly explained to them this how we are, we keep calm and carry on, is why we've not known fascism or communism running our country.
We need that resolve and stoicism again.
The french went on a huge march post Charlie Hebdo. Didnt help them tonight.
It appears it's turned into a massacre. This will fundamentally change Europe now. The chilling thing is that it will one day happen here.
I'm still hopeful it won't happen here. After 7/7 people said it would happen again before long but we've had more than a decade without any serious attacks.
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?
Nah, we just need to run Double Cross system again
It appears it's turned into a massacre. This will fundamentally change Europe now. The chilling thing is that it will one day happen here.
I'm still hopeful it won't happen here. After 7/7 people said it would happen again before long but we've had more than a decade without any serious attacks.
But they have tried .... again and again and again.
Des attaques simultanées, une prise d'otages, menées par plusieurs tireurs et au moins un kamikaze: c'est le scénario-cauchemar, que craignaient depuis des mois les services antiterroristes, qui s'est déclenché vendredi soir à Paris.
Au cours des dernières semaines, responsables et experts avaient prévenu que des attentats islamistes, d'une ampleur sans précédent, se préparaient contre la France et seraient quasiment impossibles à déjouer.
"Le thermomètre grimpe. Aujourd'hui, leur but est de tenir dans le temps, pour que les médias puissent s'accrocher à l'événement, le diffuser en direct pour un maximum de publicité", confiait récemment, sous couvert d'anonymat, un haut responsable de la lutte antiterroriste. "Nous craignons désormais des attaques à la kalachnikov, qui vont durer".
i.e. the French have been expecting attacks like this for several weeks.
This has got to be a turning point, surely? Over 100 dead...
I just don't know.
Terrible things like this happen. Rigby, London, Madrid, 9/11, Charlie Hebdo.. We're extremely shocked, and very angry for a few days..
And then life seems to go on.
I don't know if we're becoming hardened to it, but I just don't know if there will be a political gearshift or not.
I'm not holding my breath for the European continent. If it does happen, it'll be based on the electorate not those in charge at the moment. I think it'd take the actual election of politicians on the right/far-right for that.
In the UK, it might mean more resources for GCHQ/MI5/MI6 in the Defence Review, with a further beefing up of special forces and RAF strike forces. Theresa May's bill will sail through, Parliament and there could be further security measures to come over the next few months.
It could affect the Syria vote, if Cameron pushes for it again, but the choices there are very simple and, unpleasant, now: Asad or ISIS.
This is huge if true. So huge it goes beyond comprehension.
Hopefully it kicks us into action in Syria. Maybe with this and the airliner bomb, there can be a coordinated international approach (UK, US, EU, Russia)?
The sea is our very good friend. Border controls too. Schengen is dead.
Interesting that on France 24 the commentators are still talking about how Hollande will have trouble closing the borders because of Schengen. They seem totally divorced from the reality of what is happening.
Of course. That is how ingrained the mix of wet-lefty-liberal mentality together with the European integration dream is with the majority on the continent (and many here in Britain). Our leaders either need to get real - NOW - or we will face collapse as a civilizaton.
As Nick Cohen has said, there are plenty of them who wouldn't raise a finger to defend our values even if the terrorists were in their own back yard.
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
We defeated the Nazis and Communism, we'll defeat Islamic Terror too.
That included internment camps for German and Italians. All muslims report to police stations?
Nah, we just need to run Double Cross system again
Now reporting on French TV that the death toll for the Bataclan may be revised down to 70. The 100 figure is for all attacks combined. That is my rough translation so may need checking
It's a bit early but I wonder what went wrong with the concert rescue attempt. Maybe they should have gone in sooner.
Did they die during the rescue attempt? I thought it was due to the attackers throwing grenades in there, which would do some pretty bad damage in an enclosed space.
This is a huge attack. Multiple people, clearly a large network. How can this happen ?
It's concerning they could do this without being infiltrated by the security services or having their communications hacked.
On the basis of fhis let the intelligence services have every single thing they bloody well need.
I don't understand how objections would survive but they will, from the usual suspects.
Perhaps it would help if you realised that the French already have the snooping laws you are trying to support in the UK and it has made not a blind bit of difference. The French authorities have far more power over the population than we have in the UK and what good has that done them?
Accepting my ignorance of French laws on surveillance, I would suggest that any failure of surveillance should not lead to us dropping our guard or failing to doing our best to pick up whatever intelligence we can by whatever means lies within our grasp, subject to safeguards exercised by the judiciary.
With the best will in the world can the concept of refugees and asylum seekers survive much more of this? When does the risk become unacceptable?
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.
It's worth remembering that many many refugees and asylum seekers are escaping from nutters like these.
And how do you tell the difference?
Remember that they can come as refugees and turn into terrorists, as Jihadi John did.
Why take the risk? Governments have a duty to their own citizens above all.
Ha! That's what it was like for centuries and what should be the case. But these days it is obviously demonstrable that our governments in the West couldn't care less about the people who live in their own countries. Which, when you consider that they're democratically elected, is all the more incredible.
This is huge if true. So huge it goes beyond comprehension.
Hopefully it kicks us into action in Syria. Maybe with this and the airliner bomb, there can be a coordinated international approach (UK, US, EU, Russia)?
How would bombing Syria have prevented this attack?
Now reporting on French TV that the death toll for the Bataclan may be revised down to 70. The 100 figure is for all attacks combined. That is my rough translation so may need checking
The version I heard was 70 dead and a further 30 injured at Bataclan.
Apparently there's a mistranslation somewhere about what casualties actually means by the look of it.
This has got to be a turning point, surely? Over 100 dead...
I just don't know.
Terrible things like this happen. Rigby, London, Madrid, 9/11, Charlie Hebdo.. We're extremely shocked, and very angry for a few days..
And then life seems to go on.
I don't know if we're becoming hardened to it, but I just don't know if there will be a political gearshift or not.
I'm not holding my breath for the European continent. If it does happen, it'll be based on the electorate not those in charge at the moment. I think it'd take the actual election of politicians on the right/far-right for that.
In the UK, it might mean more resources for GCHQ/MI5/MI6 in the Defence Review, with a further beefing up of special forces and RAF strike forces. Theresa May's bill will sail through, Parliament and there could be further security measures to come over the next few months.
It could affect the Syria vote, if Cameron pushes for it again, but the choices there are very simple and, unpleasant, now: Asad or ISIS.
It would mean the establishment admitting they were wrong, and the people they have been calling scaremongers and racists for 40 years were right... Won't happen, they'd rather let the whole place go up in flames
Comments
The French police are reporting that it is carnage inside the theatre.
God help them.
Reporting terrorists threw explosives at the hostages as police stormed in. Sounds like the 5 explosions were the terrorists then.
Just appalling just terrible.
My thoughts and prayers goes out to all the French people, to have all these attacks occur in a single year must incredibly traumatic.
It was the Warrenpoint ambush and 18 British soliders were killed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrenpoint_ambush
We are still using laws and concepts from a different age.
There isn't anything original about it.
CNN is reporting one attacker has been captured and claims to be recruited by #ISIS along with 3 others coming from #Syria. #ParisAttacks
3:20 PM - 13 Nov 2015
https://twitter.com/radioboots/status/664126071223271424
At the end of the day, it's a mental fight: what do we fear more? Being accused of racism, or preserving our way of life?
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 29s29 seconds ago
Update - Sky Sources: French President Francois #Hollande is travelling to the scene of one of the attacks in #Paris
100 dead at Bataclan
Police state 100 people were killed in the attack on Bataclan concert hall.
Up to 100 dead in concert hall
FPT
'Some sources related to IS are apparently expressing joy about events in Paris.
We will know for sure the attack source and motivation within 6 hours. '
Oh dear God.
These people have no definable objectives other than our destruction, the end in itself.
Which feels very flippant now.
utterly clueless.
RIP
It's got to the point where those who bleat "racist" are no different than those in 1938/9 who regarded the Nazis as somewhat misunderstood modernisers of a hard-done-by proud country.
Anyone like to argue against that?
Oh and human rights lawyers who are clearly taking the Michael to lose their professional status.
The Spaniards couldn't understand how calmly Londoners carried on, almost like nothing had happened, which was in stark contrast to the Spanish reaction to the Madrid bombings a year earlier.
It was quietly explained to them this how we are, we keep calm and carry on, is why we've not known fascism or communism running our country.
We need that resolve and stoicism again.
'I'm woefully lacking in detail here but it looks as if the French authorities have:
a) identified a watch lister who isn't at home
b) an initial thought not all the perpetrators are French
This is early days and they will be working through such a stream of data and ideas that things will come to the front and then be replaced but we'll see.'
This is huge if true. So huge it goes beyond comprehension.
Remember that they can come as refugees and turn into terrorists, as Jihadi John did.
Why take the risk? Governments have a duty to their own citizens above all.
Des attaques simultanées, une prise d'otages, menées par plusieurs tireurs et au moins un kamikaze: c'est le scénario-cauchemar, que craignaient depuis des mois les services antiterroristes, qui s'est déclenché vendredi soir à Paris.
Au cours des dernières semaines, responsables et experts avaient prévenu que des attentats islamistes, d'une ampleur sans précédent, se préparaient contre la France et seraient quasiment impossibles à déjouer.
"Le thermomètre grimpe. Aujourd'hui, leur but est de tenir dans le temps, pour que les médias puissent s'accrocher à l'événement, le diffuser en direct pour un maximum de publicité", confiait récemment, sous couvert d'anonymat, un haut responsable de la lutte antiterroriste. "Nous craignons désormais des attaques à la kalachnikov, qui vont durer".
i.e. the French have been expecting attacks like this for several weeks.
Terrible things like this happen. Rigby, London, Madrid, 9/11, Charlie Hebdo.. We're extremely shocked, and very angry for a few days..
And then life seems to go on.
I don't know if we're becoming hardened to it, but I just don't know if there will be a political gearshift or not.
I'm not holding my breath for the European continent. If it does happen, it'll be based on the electorate not those in charge at the moment. I think it'd take the actual election of politicians on the right/far-right for that.
In the UK, it might mean more resources for GCHQ/MI5/MI6 in the Defence Review, with a further beefing up of special forces and RAF strike forces. Theresa May's bill will sail through, Parliament and there could be further security measures to come over the next few months.
It could affect the Syria vote, if Cameron pushes for it again, but the choices there are very simple and, unpleasant, now: Asad or ISIS.
http://www.theweek.co.uk/62771/mi5-double-agent-offers-rare-insight-into-al-qaeda-and-jihad
Time to wake up people!!
Apparently there's a mistranslation somewhere about what casualties actually means by the look of it.