@paulwaugh: Lab whips cautioning not to get too excited if 45 abstentions tonight; 15 MPs 'slipped' to be away. But still cd be 30 'active' abstentions
Hang on, wasn't this meant to be a three-line whip? Or don't Labour do that kind of thing anymore?
I suppose this is the same sort of thing as Sweden ostensibly having one of the highest rates of rape and sexual harassment in the world. Of course that's nonsense, it just reflects the fact that they take reporting it much more seriously than elsewhere.
Revenue £4 billion Cost of Sales Just over £4 Bn General overheads £600 M "Exceptional items" £650m
Other stuff
etc...
Loss for the year 1.35Bn; Change in equity -1.3Bn.
Equity at yr End -£66 M.
The new MD (Rupert Soames, a grandson of Winston Churchill and a very well respected figure) is doing the standard thing of writing off vast amounts of historic problems in one go.
Only in the UK could the Managing Director of the biggest beneficiary of government largesse be the brother/cousin of at least two MPs and the Grandon/Nephew/Son of yet more.
I seriously doubt that only in the UK could something like that be the case.
I don't think anyone who is grousing about the exceptional level of UK corruption has ever been to France, Spain, Italy, Portugal...never mind Russia!
Surpisingly (to my mind anyway) Norway is rife with claims of nepotism with many of the top politicians and civil servants coming from a few Oslo based families.
Actually no. It is just that in a small country like Norway three or four families who appear to have a number of members in important positions gets noticed. The Gerhardsens, Stoltenbergs and Harlems - all Labour, seem to dominate left wing politics and the high positions of office.
That said, it is a case of perception rather than fact. If you compared it to the UK political dynasties then the Norwegians are rank amateurs.
wow - that's one way to take the focus off the economy...
PoliticsHome ✔ @politicshome Labour could back unilateral disarmament, says Shadow Defence Sec http://polho.me/1k4Uk6l pic.twitter.com/wC6xsXWQOa
Labour could burn the Union Jack right now and use the ashes as toilet paper live on camera - they won't drop any further in the polls.
People are registering protest against the government and what it's doing, and nature abhors a vacuum. Of course, that's very different to voting for Corbyn in GE2020.
What is a good result for Corbyn, There's about 70 votes automagically No (SNP, DUP, Green, Plaid). What figure is untenable for him? Below 200 Nos? Below 150?
@rustinpeace00: McDonnell completely falling to pieces at the box. I genuinely cannot believe that this is what remains of Labour in 2015. #FiscalCharter
The point about rubbishing McDonnell is he is a ready made proxy for Corbyn. There is no need to get deep down and biblical with Corbyn when you can unhinge him by defenestrating his chosen closest ally. And of course the Tories would want to string Corbyn along as long as possible.
Some would argue there are matches that are stopped far too early, when the boxer under a flurry of blows was in fact fine and would have rallied if the refs hadn't called it too soon.
Yes, Labour are going to rally at the end of this debate...
Surely what matters is how many are unhappy enough to do something about it, and whether this debate will impact on that number? If the situation does not get worse, then they have potential to rally as a party. I don't say it is likely, merely curious if things will actually get worse, or if they are treading water and thus giving themselves a chance later.
You're surely not suggesting that this is Ali vs Foreman all over again?
Some would argue there are matches that are stopped far too early, when the boxer under a flurry of blows was in fact fine and would have rallied if the refs hadn't called it too soon.
Yes, Labour are going to rally at the end of this debate...
Surely what matters is how many are unhappy enough to do something about it, and whether this debate will impact on that number? If the situation does not get worse, then they have potential to rally as a party. I don't say it is likely, merely curious if things will actually get worse, or if they are treading water and thus giving themselves a chance later.
You're surely not suggesting that this is Ali vs Foreman all over again?
I never rule anything out completely, but I'm not anticipating that. Just picking at an analogy.
If this was a boxing match it would have been stopped. .
Some would argue there are matches that are stopped far too early, when the boxer under a flurry of blows was in fact fine and would have rallied if the refs hadn't called it too soon.
I think boxing is a bad analogy.
This is more of a Ronda Rousey bout.
No one is trying to suggest that McDonnell is trying to rope a dope are they?
Mark Wallace @wallaceme Absolute must-watch - the whole interview with @RichardBurgon. He may as well have arrived in a clown car. twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/654377154541670400 …
This brief interview probably has the most embarrassment-per-second* I have ever seen.
EPS* - a new metric invented exclusively for the Corbyn Era.
Apt for certain elements of the Miliband era too, Lucy Powell for starters.
Edit: had to skip some parts of the video.. reminds me of watching the office. Ugh.
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
Oh come on, just for abstaining? That's not even a real rebellion.
But it amounts to the same thing when the majority is tiny, as we've seen today: the government got only 320 votes in favour, which is not an absolute majority.
The point is if Labour MPs want to be independents who act freely from what activists want, then they can't then complain if those activists turn around and say "fine, but we'd prefer our money and effort go towards a Labour MP who fights for the aims we want".
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
Looks like the PLP is largely cowed by Corbyn already. He doesn't need to worry now.
Normally The Apprentice is the most cringeworthy thing on TV, but it will have to go some to match that debate
Excitedly copying and pasting tweets from a parliamentary debate as if it's a moon landing is quite cringeworthy, but the Apprentice will top it I'm sure
Oh come on, just for abstaining? That's not even a real rebellion.
But it amounts to the same thing when the majority is tiny, as we've seen today: the government got only 320 votes in favour, which is not an absolute majority.
Oh come on, just for abstaining? That's not even a real rebellion.
But it amounts to the same thing when the majority is tiny, as we've seen today: the government got only 320 votes in favour, which is not an absolute majority.
The point is if Labour MPs want to be independents who act freely from what activists want, then they can't then complain if those activists turn around and say "fine, but we'd prefer our money and effort go towards a Labour MP who fights for the aims we want".
You keep saying this stuff about de-selection and you're not completely stupid so I guess you must want some kind of implosion to bring this sorry mess to a swift end.
Oh come on, just for abstaining? That's not even a real rebellion.
But it amounts to the same thing when the majority is tiny, as we've seen today: the government got only 320 votes in favour, which is not an absolute majority.
You're assuming no pairs.
I thought pairing was normally not used for 3 line whips.
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
Looks like the PLP is largely cowed by Corbyn already. He doesn't need to worry now.
I'd agree. All round a brilliant day for Osborne. If as reported McDonnell was made to look stupid in the eyes of his backbenchers and they squirmingly did nothing then its a good day for the Tories. They can only hope for a few more of the same. The abstainers cannot be happy with the borderlines either.
The govt would have been defeated if all Lab MPs did their job.
Nope.
650 MPs 4 SF not sworn in 4 Speakers don't vote 4 tellers don't vote
So max number of votes that could be cast if every single (sworn in) MP was present = 638
So 320 votes must win.
Ok, if that's the case then I stand corrected.
However, it was still very close, for all those abstainers knew they could've been making the difference between the vote being won or lost, and there will be votes in future where they really would make the difference.
And I'm saying this as someone in the right-wing half of the party who didn't put Corbyn as first preference, so you can imagine what the reaction will be with the majority!
The govt would have been defeated if all Lab MPs did their job.
Nope.
650 MPs 4 SF not sworn in 4 Speakers don't vote 4 tellers don't vote
So max number of votes that could be cast if every single (sworn in) MP was present = 638
So 320 votes must win.
Ok, if that's the case then I stand corrected.
However, it was still very close, for all those abstainers knew they could've been making the difference between the vote being won or lost, and there will be votes in future where they really would make the difference.
And I'm saying this as someone in the right-wing half of the party who didn't put Corbyn as first preference, so you can imagine what the reaction will be with the majority!
30 abstainers wouls have pushed the vote up to 288. Still well short of a potential win. Was there a 3 line govt whip? Very rarely do votes involve every single MP voting. There are always people unavailable for all sorts of legitimate reasons. This is especially true of the governing party.
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
Looks like the PLP is largely cowed by Corbyn already. He doesn't need to worry now.
Cowed? The whole thing is a load of nonsense. Why should Labour get dragged into Osborne's silly games? No previous British government has needed such a law and yet if you ignore having to fight wars the British government has a remarkable history of financial solvency.
This brief interview probably has the most embarrassment-per-second* I have ever seen.
EPS* - a new metric invented exclusively for the Corbyn Era.
2:10 - Ending corporate welfare.
Is there another U-turn coming on tax credits ?
Did that guy know anything about his brief - I trying not to be partisan (!!!) - but that wasn't a car crash. That was the end of the Blues Brothers. With more police cars.
As someone who correctly predicted the use of a major increase in the minimum wage and raising of the starting point of tax as the balance to cutting tax credits.... I reckon that the Chancellor will announce in the Autumn statement that he bringing forward the minimum wage increases to alleviate concerns over tax credits. That will be his "listening to the concerns of his back benchers" move.
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
I would like to know who those 30 MPs are unless specifically allowed to abstain or were paired.
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
I would like to know who those 30 MPs are unless specifically allowed to abstain or were paired.
They genuinely seem to think they have a God-given right to remain MPs forevermore, without any obligations to the activists who put them there. Unbelievable.
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
Looks like the PLP is largely cowed by Corbyn already. He doesn't need to worry now.
Cowed? The whole thing is a load of nonsense. Why should Labour get dragged into Osborne's silly games? No previous British government has needed such a law and yet if you ignore having to fight wars the British government has a remarkable history of financial solvency.
What happens should a Chancellor fail to create a surplus in "good times" ?
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
I would like to know who those 30 MPs are unless specifically allowed to abstain or were paired.
How an MP votes, or doesn't, is not a secret so you will be able to find out, probably tomorrow, by the wonders of the Internet. Having found out what do you plan to do with the information?
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
I would like to know who those 30 MPs are unless specifically allowed to abstain or were paired.
They genuinely seem to think they have a God-given right to remain MPs forevermore, without any obligations to the activists who put them there. Unbelievable.
But maybe the activists in their own area want them to do what they just did, maybe their local party is not on board with Corbyn and company? What should they do in that situation?
The Conservatives were always going to win tonight, just like Brown used to win when his idiocies were pushed through by mindless back benchers who had no idea what he was talking about. This is one of the reasons why politics does not tempt sane people. For me, opposition would be like going into every court case knowing you were going to lose. What on earth is the point or job satisfaction in that?
So the point of tonight was not the government victory but how many Labour MPs were willing to hold their nose and support the absolute tosh produced by McConnell. And the answer is damn near 200 of them. They should be ashamed of themselves. Unless they are willing to act their party is going to die. But they are pathetic.
He's so out of his depth it is excruciating to watch. I honestly think Cathy Newman cut it short there to let him go before he lost all dignity. I guess this Burgon fella was one of the last to be appointed after several dozen other MPs turned down the job.
Ah I see he was one of the idiots that nominated Corbyn!
The Conservatives were always going to win tonight, just like Brown used to win when his idiocies were pushed through by mindless back benchers who had no idea what he was talking about. .
But that was when Labour had much bigger majorities than 12. A parliament of this kind hasn't happened since the 1992-97 parliament (when I'm fairly sure even Tony Blair would've opposed Tea Party-esque lunacy like Osborne's stunt today).
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
I would like to know who those 30 MPs are unless specifically allowed to abstain or were paired.
They genuinely seem to think they have a God-given right to remain MPs forevermore, without any obligations to the activists who put them there. Unbelievable.
Their obligation is to the voters in their parliamentary seat, the activists can take a hike.
I don't think Ive seen a more shambolic shadow chancellor. The charter was the same two weeks ago when he supported it, and it is the same now he's rejected it. I also thought McDonnell verged on rude for the most part, having to remind himself to 'be nice.'
There's some genuine issues that need strong opposition, tax credits being one. I have no faith in labour being coherent enough to hold the government to account. I wonder if Labour MPs on the most part are genuinely feeling the heat from the corbynistas.
The Conservatives were always going to win tonight, just like Brown used to win when his idiocies were pushed through by mindless back benchers who had no idea what he was talking about. .
But that was when Labour had much bigger majorities than 12. A parliament of this kind hasn't happened since the 1992-97 parliament (when I'm fairly sure even Tony Blair would've opposed Tea Party-esque lunacy like Osborne's stunt today).
Remember when he was shadow City Minister? About the time of black Wednesday? He sounded vastly more authoritative than the shell shocked ministers trying to explain what on earth had happened to them.
The comparison with that muppet tonight is not only painful for the Labour party, it is painful for our democracy.
Some of the most persecuted are the middle east Christians. They often take shelter in homes and Churches rather than official camps, as these are often also quite persecutory. Taking just from official camps would exclude them.
Barnabas fund is supporting safe havens, with the support of some prominent clergy:
My apologies, I wasn't referring just to official camps necessarily - in fact I was not even aware there were official and unofficial camps. If you note I made no mention of 'official' camps in my original posting. It is not beyond the wit of those organising airlifts of refugees into the UK to make sure that as many people as possible get an equal chance to be considered. What is important is that the refugees are taken from camps in the countries bordering the war zone rather than accepted once they have taken up the offer of the smugglers and made dangerous journeys into the heart of Europe.
The Archbishop has been directly raising the issue with the PM:
Syrian Christians are least likely to be able to return to their homes, least safe in refugee camps (as these are often Islamist recruiting gounds) and most likely to assimilate here. To me it is a no-brainer to give them priority over the young men in Calais.
Absolutely agree. Lord Weidenfeld is raising money to help persecuted Christians in the Middle East.
(BTW I hope to be at the next PB meet.)
I agree, however the downside might make them an even more persecuted group. It would be sad to see us throw in the towel on Christianity in the mid east, but if we could take them all then we should. The sectarian divide would of course be ever wider.
The Christians were perfectly safe until 2003 when we decided to play God !
Some of the most persecuted are the middle east Christians. They often take shelter in homes and Churches rather than official camps, as these are often also quite persecutory. Taking just from official camps would exclude them.
Barnabas fund is supporting safe havens, with the support of some prominent clergy:
My apologies, I wasn't referring just to official camps necessarily - in fact I was not even aware there were official and unofficial camps. If you note I made no mention of 'official' camps in my original posting. It is not beyond the wit of those organising airlifts of refugees into the UK to make sure that as many people as possible get an equal chance to be considered. What is important is that the refugees are taken from camps in the countries bordering the war zone rather than accepted once they have taken up the offer of the smugglers and made dangerous journeys into the heart of Europe.
The Archbishop has been directly raising the issue with the PM:
Syrian Christians are least likely to be able to return to their homes, least safe in refugee camps (as these are often Islamist recruiting gounds) and most likely to assimilate here. To me it is a no-brainer to give them priority over the young men in Calais.
Absolutely agree. Lord Weidenfeld is raising money to help persecuted Christians in the Middle East.
(BTW I hope to be at the next PB meet.)
I agree, however the downside might make them an even more persecuted group. It would be sad to see us throw in the towel on Christianity in the mid east, but if we could take them all then we should. The sectarian divide would of course be ever wider.
The Christians were perfectly safe until 2003 when we decided to play God !
You haven't really travelled very much in the Middle East, have you?
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
Looks like the PLP is largely cowed by Corbyn already. He doesn't need to worry now.
Cowed? The whole thing is a load of nonsense. Why should Labour get dragged into Osborne's silly games? No previous British government has needed such a law and yet if you ignore having to fight wars the British government has a remarkable history of financial solvency.
What happens should a Chancellor fail to create a surplus in "good times" ?
1. 1 year in prison for each £1bn of deficit
2. A personal fine of 1% of the deficit
3. One lash for each £1bn of deficit
4. None of the above.
What is the point of this farce ?
There are quite a few legal requirements without penalties. It is interesting to see how much of EU stuff is a legal requirement without teeth for example.
Some of the most persecuted are the middle east Christians. They often take shelter in homes and Churches rather than official camps, as these are often also quite persecutory. Taking just from official camps would exclude them.
Barnabas fund is supporting safe havens, with the support of some prominent clergy:
My apologies, I wasn't referring just to official camps necessarily - in fact I was not even aware there were official and unofficial camps. If you note I made no mention of 'official' camps in my original posting. It is not beyond the wit of those organising airlifts of refugees into the UK to make sure that as many people as possible get an equal chance to be considered. What is important is that the refugees are taken from camps in the countries bordering the war zone rather than accepted once they have taken up the offer of the smugglers and made dangerous journeys into the heart of Europe.
The Archbishop has been directly raising the issue with the PM:
Syrian Christians are least likely to be able to return to their homes, least safe in refugee camps (as these are often Islamist recruiting gounds) and most likely to assimilate here. To me it is a no-brainer to give them priority over the young men in Calais.
Absolutely agree. Lord Weidenfeld is raising money to help persecuted Christians in the Middle East.
(BTW I hope to be at the next PB meet.)
I agree, however the downside might make them an even more persecuted group. It would be sad to see us throw in the towel on Christianity in the mid east, but if we could take them all then we should. The sectarian divide would of course be ever wider.
The Christians were perfectly safe until 2003 when we decided to play God !
They were only tolerated because they did not dare rise above their station.
Some of the most persecuted are the middle east Christians. They often take shelter in homes and Churches rather than official camps, as these are often also quite persecutory. Taking just from official camps would exclude them.
Barnabas fund is supporting safe havens, with the support of some prominent clergy:
My apologies, I wasn't referring just to official camps necessarily - in fact I was not even aware there were official and unofficial camps. If you note I made no mention of 'official' camps in my original posting. It is not beyond the wit of those organising airlifts of refugees into the UK to make sure that as many people as possible get an equal chance to be considered. What is important is that the refugees are taken from camps in the countries bordering the war zone rather than accepted once they have taken up the offer of the smugglers and made dangerous journeys into the heart of Europe.
The Archbishop has been directly raising the issue with the PM:
Syrian Christians are least likely to be able to return to their homes, least safe in refugee camps (as these are often Islamist recruiting gounds) and most likely to assimilate here. To me it is a no-brainer to give them priority over the young men in Calais.
Absolutely agree. Lord Weidenfeld is raising money to help persecuted Christians in the Middle East.
(BTW I hope to be at the next PB meet.)
I agree, however the downside might make them an even more persecuted group. It would be sad to see us throw in the towel on Christianity in the mid east, but if we could take them all then we should. The sectarian divide would of course be ever wider.
The Christians were perfectly safe until 2003 when we decided to play God !
You haven't really travelled very much in the Middle East, have you?
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
I would like to know who those 30 MPs are unless specifically allowed to abstain or were paired.
They genuinely seem to think they have a God-given right to remain MPs forevermore, without any obligations to the activists who put them there. Unbelievable.
Their obligation is to the voters in their parliamentary seat, the activists can take a hike.
We'll see when they finance their own re-election as an independents. How many knock on doors for traitors ?
Earlier on I commented that Corbyn did well at PMQS. Credit where due and all that. But I suggested him doing well was largely moot because the whole shadow cabinet operation is largely pathetic.
After watching the C4 Burgon interview you get a sense of the scale of Labour's problem. He was absolutely woeful. In fact, he was unprepared and plain fucking stupid. It's not good enough and Labour grassroots workers deserve better.
The Conservatives were always going to win tonight, just like Brown used to win when his idiocies were pushed through by mindless back benchers who had no idea what he was talking about. .
But that was when Labour had much bigger majorities than 12. A parliament of this kind hasn't happened since the 1992-97 parliament (when I'm fairly sure even Tony Blair would've opposed Tea Party-esque lunacy like Osborne's stunt today).
So Maynard Keynes was a pre-Tea Party member of the Tea Party? His idea was to pay down debt and run a surplus in the good times, so that when the inevitable happened (a) the surplus would absorb some of the shock of the loss of revenue and (b) there would be a capacity to borrow (low deficit) to boost the economy.
It's funny how the left rediscover Keynes every time the economy dips, but can't remember his name during a boom.
"Around 20 Labour MPs abstained from the vote, including around half a dozen shadow ministers.
One shadow minister said he was threatened with the sack after saying he would not oppose the charter on Tuesday morning, only to be given "authorised absence".
The minister said: "It's f*****g chaos. I said I wasn't voting today and they said I would get sacked. This afternoon they said will you just stay away. I said fair enough. They then told me I've got authorised absence. I'm going for dinner tonight instead."
...
The vote came as Mr Corbyn suffered yet more indecision.
He was said to be undecided over whether or not to wear White Tie to a state banquet next week, which will be hosted by the Queen in honour of the Chinese President. "
'Undecided over whether to wear a white tie'? Good grief. It must be exhausting having a conscience as ferocious as Jeremy's.
Earlier on I commented that Corbyn did well at PMQS. Credit where due and all that. But I suggested him doing well was largely moot because the whole shadow cabinet operation is largely pathetic.
After watching the C4 Burgon interview you get a sense of the scale of Labour's problem. He was absolutely woeful. In fact, he was unprepared and plain fucking stupid. It's not good enough and Labour grassroots workers deserve better.
Dan Hodges ✔ @DPJHodges Richard Burgon. Channel 4 news. I'm just leaving this one hanging there...
Some of the most persecuted are the middle east Christians. They often take shelter in homes and Churches rather than official camps, as these are often also quite persecutory. Taking just from official camps would exclude them.
Barnabas fund is supporting safe havens, with the support of some prominent clergy:
My apologies, I wasn't referring just to official camps necessarily - in fact I was not even aware there were official and unofficial camps. If you note I made no mention of 'official' camps in my original posting. It is not beyond the wit of those organising airlifts of refugees into the UK to make sure that as many people as possible get an equal chance to be considered. What is important is that the refugees are taken from camps in the countries bordering the war zone rather than accepted once they have taken up the offer of the smugglers and made dangerous journeys into the heart of Europe.
The Archbishop has been directly raising the issue with the PM:
Syrian Christians are least likely to be able to return to their homes, least safe in refugee camps (as these are often Islamist recruiting gounds) and most likely to assimilate here. To me it is a no-brainer to give them priority over the young men in Calais.
Absolutely agree. Lord Weidenfeld is raising money to help persecuted Christians in the Middle East.
(BTW I hope to be at the next PB meet.)
I agree, however the downside might make them an even more persecuted group. It would be sad to see us throw in the towel on Christianity in the mid east, but if we could take them all then we should. The sectarian divide would of course be ever wider.
The Christians were perfectly safe until 2003 when we decided to play God !
FWIW, I'm involved with the Anglican & Eastern Churches Association (my local church is responsible for Anglican relations with the Orthodox community).
I can tell you, categorically, that your post is utter bollocks.
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
"Around 20 Labour MPs abstained from the vote, including around half a dozen shadow ministers.
One shadow minister said he was threatened with the sack after saying he would not oppose the charter on Tuesday morning, only to be given "authorised absence".
The minister said: "It's f*****g chaos. I said I wasn't voting today and they said I would get sacked. This afternoon they said will you just stay away. I said fair enough. They then told me I've got authorised absence. I'm going for dinner tonight instead."
...
The vote came as Mr Corbyn suffered yet more indecision.
He was said to be undecided over whether or not to wear White Tie to a state banquet next week, which will be hosted by the Queen in honour of the Chinese President. "
'Undecided over whether to wear a white tie'? Good grief. It must be exhausting having a conscience as ferocious as Jeremy's.
He should wear a lounge suit. What would the Chinese President be wearing ?
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
Surprised not to see Jeremy Corbyn on the rebels list.
Comments
Are you not banned however from interacting with almost as many people as 'him'... roger's hero.
That said, it is a case of perception rather than fact. If you compared it to the UK political dynasties then the Norwegians are rank amateurs.
People are registering protest against the government and what it's doing, and nature abhors a vacuum. Of course, that's very different to voting for Corbyn in GE2020.
I know things have always been bad, but this bad!?
We may be a bit fucked!
Reminds me of the time I got a whole thread pulled for tricking someone... Ha ha
I'm banned from interacting with about half a dozen... The apocalypse and flightpath
That sounds a bit complacent. If Osborne finally has some money by, say, 2018, he better give it back to this group.
Mark Wallace @wallaceme
Absolute must-watch - the whole interview with @RichardBurgon. He may as well have arrived in a clown car. https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/654377154541670400 …
Aye 320
No 258
Not bad with a government majority of just 12.
So about 30-40 Labour MPs have abstained.
Edit: had to skip some parts of the video.. reminds me of watching the office. Ugh.
They really deserve what is coming to them.
The govt would have been defeated if all Lab MPs did their job.
Is there another U-turn coming on tax credits ?
Also they're 65 short, not 40.
Assume the Blairites are never going to be in control again. Ever.
So your choices are
1. sing from the Corbyn hymn sheet and risk deselection by voter
2. rebel and face deselection by party member.
Either way you are getting deselected.
The point is if Labour MPs want to be independents who act freely from what activists want, then they can't then complain if those activists turn around and say "fine, but we'd prefer our money and effort go towards a Labour MP who fights for the aims we want".
650 MPs
4 SF not sworn in
4 Speakers don't vote
4 tellers don't vote
So max number of votes that could be cast if every single (sworn in) MP was present = 638
So 320 votes must win.
However, it was still very close, for all those abstainers knew they could've been making the difference between the vote being won or lost, and there will be votes in future where they really would make the difference.
And I'm saying this as someone in the right-wing half of the party who didn't put Corbyn as first preference, so you can imagine what the reaction will be with the majority!
The good tv interviewers must be licking their lips.
As someone who correctly predicted the use of a major increase in the minimum wage and raising of the starting point of tax as the balance to cutting tax credits.... I reckon that the Chancellor will announce in the Autumn statement that he bringing forward the minimum wage increases to alleviate concerns over tax credits. That will be his "listening to the concerns of his back benchers" move.
Democracy is failing though. Even the BBC are taking the piss out of Labour.
1. 1 year in prison for each £1bn of deficit
2. A personal fine of 1% of the deficit
3. One lash for each £1bn of deficit
4. None of the above.
What is the point of this farce ?
So the point of tonight was not the government victory but how many Labour MPs were willing to hold their nose and support the absolute tosh produced by McConnell. And the answer is damn near 200 of them. They should be ashamed of themselves. Unless they are willing to act their party is going to die. But they are pathetic.
Ah I see he was one of the idiots that nominated Corbyn!
There's some genuine issues that need strong opposition, tax credits being one. I have no faith in labour being coherent enough to hold the government to account. I wonder if Labour MPs on the most part are genuinely feeling the heat from the corbynistas.
It's really very funny now that the BBC, has ceased to cheer lead for you that you suddenly feel they are biased.
How long before you start demanding abolition of the licence fee?
The comparison with that muppet tonight is not only painful for the Labour party, it is painful for our democracy.
Both Labour years !
Paul Waugh ✔ @paulwaugh
Tory sources:.37 Labour MPs abstained, of which 9 were paired and that means 28 abstained without being paired in advance.
After watching the C4 Burgon interview you get a sense of the scale of Labour's problem. He was absolutely woeful. In fact, he was unprepared and plain fucking stupid. It's not good enough and Labour grassroots workers deserve better.
It's funny how the left rediscover Keynes every time the economy dips, but can't remember his name during a boom.
"Around 20 Labour MPs abstained from the vote, including around half a dozen shadow ministers.
One shadow minister said he was threatened with the sack after saying he would not oppose the charter on Tuesday morning, only to be given "authorised absence".
The minister said: "It's f*****g chaos. I said I wasn't voting today and they said I would get sacked. This afternoon they said will you just stay away. I said fair enough. They then told me I've got authorised absence. I'm going for dinner tonight instead."
...
The vote came as Mr Corbyn suffered yet more indecision.
He was said to be undecided over whether or not to wear White Tie to a state banquet next week, which will be hosted by the Queen in honour of the Chinese President. "
'Undecided over whether to wear a white tie'? Good grief. It must be exhausting having a conscience as ferocious as Jeremy's.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34524078
Richard Burgon. Channel 4 news. I'm just leaving this one hanging there...
I can tell you, categorically, that your post is utter bollocks.
Fiona Mactaggart
Rushanara Ali
Ian Austin
Ben Bradshaw
Adrian Bailey
Shabana Mahmood
Ann Coffey
Andrew Smith
Simon Danczuk
Jamie Reed
Chris Evans
Graham Stringer
Frank Field
Gisela Stuart
Mike Gapes
Margaret Hodge
Tristram Hunt
Graham Jones
Helen Jones
Liz Kendall
Chris Leslie
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/edmundconway/100004814/a-prime-minister-who-knows-something-about-the-economy/
And if you are Labour weep.