Some of the most persecuted are the middle east Christians. They often take shelter in homes and Churches rather than official camps, as these are often also quite persecutory. Taking just from official camps would exclude them.
Barnabas fund is supporting safe havens, with the support of some prominent clergy:
My apologies, I wasn't referring just to official camps necessarily - in fact I was not even aware there were official and unofficial camps. If you note I made no mention of 'official' camps in my original posting. It is not beyond the wit of those organising airlifts of refugees into the UK to make sure that as many people as possible get an equal chance to be considered. What is important is that the refugees are taken from camps in the countries bordering the war zone rather than accepted once they have taken up the offer of the smugglers and made dangerous journeys into the heart of Europe.
The Archbishop has been directly raising the issue with the PM:
Syrian Christians are least likely to be able to return to their homes, least safe in refugee camps (as these are often Islamist recruiting gounds) and most likely to assimilate here. To me it is a no-brainer to give them priority over the young men in Calais.
Absolutely agree. Lord Weidenfeld is raising money to help persecuted Christians in the Middle East.
(BTW I hope to be at the next PB meet.)
I agree, however the downside might make them an even more persecuted group. It would be sad to see us throw in the towel on Christianity in the mid east, but if we could take them all then we should. The sectarian divide would of course be ever wider.
The Christians were perfectly safe until 2003 when we decided to play God !
They were only tolerated because they did not dare rise above their station.
Pretty much exactly. Christians in the area (and other Muslim countries such as Pakistan) live on whim of the rest of the community. Much as Jews did in Medieval Europe. The Jews in the Muslim world have (in general) already been ethnically cleansed.
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
Surprised not to see Jeremy Corbyn on the rebels list.
In the last 25 years, there have been only 2 years when spending was less than revenue earned.
Both Labour years !
When they followed Tory spending plans.
How come the Tories themselves could not follow their own spending plans and manage do to do it ? Between 1992 and 1997 , they had already been in power for 13 years !!!!
The longer the PLP just do nothing about Corbyn the thicker they are.
Democracy is failing though. Even the BBC are taking the piss out of Labour.
The BBC is the Establishment. They are Tories.
Ha ha ha. You should be careful. Most BBC luvies would sue you for libel for calling them Tories.
In the mid 90s everyone was taking the piss out of the dying Conservative Government. Papers, TV, BBC. Did anyone suggest democracy was dying then - I don't think so.
"Around 20 Labour MPs abstained from the vote, including around half a dozen shadow ministers.
One shadow minister said he was threatened with the sack after saying he would not oppose the charter on Tuesday morning, only to be given "authorised absence".
The minister said: "It's f*****g chaos. I said I wasn't voting today and they said I would get sacked. This afternoon they said will you just stay away. I said fair enough. They then told me I've got authorised absence. I'm going for dinner tonight instead."
...
The vote came as Mr Corbyn suffered yet more indecision.
He was said to be undecided over whether or not to wear White Tie to a state banquet next week, which will be hosted by the Queen in honour of the Chinese President. "
'Undecided over whether to wear a white tie'? Good grief. It must be exhausting having a conscience as ferocious as Jeremy's.
TBF, white tie is a pain in the arse and should be avoided whenever possible.
"Around 20 Labour MPs abstained from the vote, including around half a dozen shadow ministers.
One shadow minister said he was threatened with the sack after saying he would not oppose the charter on Tuesday morning, only to be given "authorised absence".
The minister said: "It's f*****g chaos. I said I wasn't voting today and they said I would get sacked.
Jeremy Corbyn’s ‘New Politics’ does seem a little nasty and authoritarian for my liking.
"Around 20 Labour MPs abstained from the vote, including around half a dozen shadow ministers.
One shadow minister said he was threatened with the sack after saying he would not oppose the charter on Tuesday morning, only to be given "authorised absence".
The minister said: "It's f*****g chaos. I said I wasn't voting today and they said I would get sacked. This afternoon they said will you just stay away. I said fair enough. They then told me I've got authorised absence. I'm going for dinner tonight instead."
...
The vote came as Mr Corbyn suffered yet more indecision.
He was said to be undecided over whether or not to wear White Tie to a state banquet next week, which will be hosted by the Queen in honour of the Chinese President. "
'Undecided over whether to wear a white tie'? Good grief. It must be exhausting having a conscience as ferocious as Jeremy's.
He should wear a lounge suit. What would the Chinese President be wearing ?
What does it matter what the Chinese President will be wearing? If Corbyn's principles tell him he should turn up in a T shirt and jeans then that is what he should wear. The insult to the hosts and other guests will not be not less if he turns up in a lounge suit (has he got one?).
Anyway, I see our fellow posters have given you the information you desired in regards as to who abstained tonight. So I'll repeat, what are you going to do with this information?
In the last 25 years, there have been only 2 years when spending was less than revenue earned.
Both Labour years !
When they followed Tory spending plans.
How come the Tories themselves could not follow their own spending plans and manage do to do it ? Between 1992 and 1997 , they had already been in power for 13 years !!!!
Lol - let's go the whole hog surby - it's all down to ttttthhhhaaatttccchhheeerrrrrrr!!!!
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
Looks like the PLP is largely cowed by Corbyn already. He doesn't need to worry now.
Cowed? The whole thing is a load of nonsense. Why should Labour get dragged into Osborne's silly games? No previous British government has needed such a law and yet if you ignore having to fight wars the British government has a remarkable history of financial solvency.
What happens should a Chancellor fail to create a surplus in "good times" ?
1. 1 year in prison for each £1bn of deficit
2. A personal fine of 1% of the deficit
3. One lash for each £1bn of deficit
4. None of the above.
What is the point of this farce ?
There are quite a few legal requirements without penalties. It is interesting to see how much of EU stuff is a legal requirement without teeth for example.
So you do agree that it is pointless other than silly point scoring. The Tories have never achieved a surplus budget in living memory. In fact, was this not going to be the "surplus" year ?
Also, it was said this morning that the GOP has picked the establishment candidate at every election since 1964. That is not quite true, Bush Snr was the establishment candidate in 1980, Reagan the conservative insurgent , McCain the moderate in 2000, George W Bush the conservative
"Around 20 Labour MPs abstained from the vote, including around half a dozen shadow ministers.
One shadow minister said he was threatened with the sack after saying he would not oppose the charter on Tuesday morning, only to be given "authorised absence".
The minister said: "It's f*****g chaos. I said I wasn't voting today and they said I would get sacked. This afternoon they said will you just stay away. I said fair enough. They then told me I've got authorised absence. I'm going for dinner tonight instead."
...
The vote came as Mr Corbyn suffered yet more indecision.
He was said to be undecided over whether or not to wear White Tie to a state banquet next week, which will be hosted by the Queen in honour of the Chinese President. "
'Undecided over whether to wear a white tie'? Good grief. It must be exhausting having a conscience as ferocious as Jeremy's.
TBF, white tie is a pain in the arse and should be avoided whenever possible.
Went to an interesting coversation this evening between Melvyn Bragg and Andrew Neil too on Bragg's new book on the Peasants Revolt, included a comparison between Corbyn and Wat Tyler
the more interesting list is who was authorised absent i'd suggest?
Well quite! And whether they plus the 21 now get deselected as Danny666 wants or strung up as Surbiton prefers.
Surely if they were authorised by the His Holiness The Corbyn, then attacking them anyway is attacking the authority of the True Faith - for his is the power of absolution of all sins. Attacking The True Faith is only something that Red Tory Scum(TM) do.
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
Looks like the PLP is largely cowed by Corbyn already. He doesn't need to worry now.
Cowed? The whole thing is a load of nonsense. Why should Labour get dragged into Osborne's silly games? No previous British government has needed such a law and yet if you ignore having to fight wars the British government has a remarkable history of financial solvency.
What happens should a Chancellor fail to create a surplus in "good times" ?
1. 1 year in prison for each £1bn of deficit
2. A personal fine of 1% of the deficit
3. One lash for each £1bn of deficit
4. None of the above.
What is the point of this farce ?
There are quite a few legal requirements without penalties. It is interesting to see how much of EU stuff is a legal requirement without teeth for example.
So you do agree that it is pointless other than silly point scoring. The Tories have never achieved a surplus budget in living memory. In fact, was this not going to be the "surplus" year ?
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
Rushanara Ali nominated Corbyn for the leadership.
Shabana Mahmood is Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
Looks like the PLP is largely cowed by Corbyn already. He doesn't need to worry now.
Cowed? The whole thing is a load of nonsense. Why should Labour get dragged into Osborne's silly games? No previous British government has needed such a law and yet if you ignore having to fight wars the British government has a remarkable history of financial solvency.
What happens should a Chancellor fail to create a surplus in "good times" ?
1. 1 year in prison for each £1bn of deficit
2. A personal fine of 1% of the deficit
3. One lash for each £1bn of deficit
4. None of the above.
What is the point of this farce ?
There are quite a few legal requirements without penalties. It is interesting to see how much of EU stuff is a legal requirement without teeth for example.
So you do agree that it is pointless other than silly point scoring. The Tories have never achieved a surplus budget in living memory. In fact, was this not going to be the "surplus" year ?
Such laws have a power in this country - civil servants (among others) refuse (in general) to break them. This is a major reason why we don't use the French approach to the EU - ignore anything we don't like.
@patrickwintour: Labour whips saying that fewer than 30 Labour MPs abstained on charter of budget responsibility admitting this was lower than expected.
Looks like the PLP is largely cowed by Corbyn already. He doesn't need to worry now.
Cowed? The whole thing is a load of nonsense. Why should Labour get dragged into Osborne's silly games? No previous British government has needed such a law and yet if you ignore having to fight wars the British government has a remarkable history of financial solvency.
What happens should a Chancellor fail to create a surplus in "good times" ?
1. 1 year in prison for each £1bn of deficit
2. A personal fine of 1% of the deficit
3. One lash for each £1bn of deficit
4. None of the above.
What is the point of this farce ?
There are quite a few legal requirements without penalties. It is interesting to see how much of EU stuff is a legal requirement without teeth for example.
So you do agree that it is pointless other than silly point scoring. The Tories have never achieved a surplus budget in living memory. In fact, was this not going to be the "surplus" year ?
The Tories always inherit the job of repairing the mess of Labour economies. That's always going to dent their batting average.
Some of the most persecuted are the middle east Christians. They often take shelter in homes and Churches rather than official camps, as these are often also quite persecutory. Taking just from official camps would exclude them.
Barnabas fund is supporting safe havens, with the support of some prominent clergy:
My apologies, I wasn't referring just to official camps necessarily - in fact I was not even aware there were official and unofficial camps. If you note I made no mention of 'official' camps in my original posting. It is not beyond the wit of those organising airlifts of refugees into the UK to make sure that as many people as possible get an equal chance to be considered. What is important is that the refugees are taken from camps in the countries bordering the war zone rather than accepted once they have taken up the offer of the smugglers and made dangerous journeys into the heart of Europe.
The Archbishop has been directly raising the issue with the PM:
Syrian Christians are least likely to be able to return to their homes, least safe in refugee camps (as these are often Islamist recruiting gounds) and most likely to assimilate here. To me it is a no-brainer to give them priority over the young men in Calais.
Absolutely agree. Lord Weidenfeld is raising money to help persecuted Christians in the Middle East.
(BTW I hope to be at the next PB meet.)
I agree, however the downside might make them an even more persecuted group. It would be sad to see us throw in the towel on Christianity in the mid east, but if we could take them all then we should. The sectarian divide would of course be ever wider.
The Christians were perfectly safe until 2003 when we decided to play God !
They were only tolerated because they did not dare rise above their station.
Pretty much exactly. Christians in the area (and other Muslim countries such as Pakistan) live on whim of the rest of the community. Much as Jews did in Medieval Europe. The Jews in the Muslim world have (in general) already been ethnically cleansed.
In the last 25 years, there have been only 2 years when spending was less than revenue earned.
Both Labour years !
When they followed Tory spending plans.
How come the Tories themselves could not follow their own spending plans and manage do to do it ? Between 1992 and 1997 , they had already been in power for 13 years !!!!
There was a stonking great recession in the early 90's. Or had you forgotten?
Paul Waugh ✔ @paulwaugh Tory sources:.37 Labour MPs abstained, of which 9 were paired and that means 28 abstained without being paired in advance.
So there is pairing on a 3-line Whip....
I am not sure how pairing counts as abstaining since your opponent does not vote either. Clearly if you can find a pair and the govt are not fussed, then you can avoid voting. 37 dodgers is a bit more than 21, so labour are a bit frit over this.
Some of the most persecuted are the middle east Christians. They often take shelter in homes and Churches rather than official camps, as these are often also quite persecutory. Taking just from official camps would exclude them.
Barnabas fund is supporting safe havens, with the support of some prominent clergy:
My apologies, I wasn't referring just to official camps necessarily - in fact I was not even aware there were official and unofficial camps. If you note I made no mention of 'official' camps in my original posting. It is not beyond the wit of those organising airlifts of refugees into the UK to make sure that as many people as possible get an equal chance to be considered. What is important is that the refugees are taken from camps in the countries bordering the war zone rather than accepted once they have taken up the offer of the smugglers and made dangerous journeys into the heart of Europe.
The Archbishop has been directly raising the issue with the PM:
Syrian Christians are least likely to be able to return to their homes, least safe in refugee camps (as these are often Islamist recruiting gounds) and most likely to assimilate here. To me it is a no-brainer to give them priority over the young men in Calais.
Absolutely agree. Lord Weidenfeld is raising money to help persecuted Christians in the Middle East.
(BTW I hope to be at the next PB meet.)
I agree, however the downside might make them an even more persecuted group. It would be sad to see us throw in the towel on Christianity in the mid east, but if we could take them all then we should. The sectarian divide would of course be ever wider.
The Christians were perfectly safe until 2003 when we decided to play God !
They were only tolerated because they did not dare rise above their station.
Pretty much exactly. Christians in the area (and other Muslim countries such as Pakistan) live on whim of the rest of the community. Much as Jews did in Medieval Europe. The Jews in the Muslim world have (in general) already been ethnically cleansed.
Saddam's deputy was a Xtian.
And Stalin had loads of Jewish chaps working for him. Didn't stop the regime being very anti-semitic.
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
Rushanara Ali nominated Corbyn for the leadership.
Shabana Mahmood is Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
As gimmicky as the Charter was, and accepting of U-turns as I am, the u-turn on it being so swift is hard to regard as credible, but apparently most of Labour are happy with it, so no pressure increase in Corbyn would surely be the main takeaway, even if his position viz a viz his MPs remains difficult clearly.
Went to an interesting coversation this evening between Melvyn Bragg and Andrew Neil too on Bragg's new book on the Peasants Revolt, included a comparison between Corbyn and Wat Tyler
Go on, Mr. HYUFD, you can't drop a teaser in like that and sat no more. Are we to think that either Bragg or Neil expects Corbyn to attack the sovereign, behead the Archbishop of Canterbury and finally die under the Lord Mayor's dagger? Will Corbyn sack and burn the Savoy (going to be some upset Arabs if he does) or, perhaps, oversee the mass destruction of legal and property records?
Of course it is true that a great many of Tyler's followers ended up ruined.
Went to an interesting coversation this evening between Melvyn Bragg and Andrew Neil too on Bragg's new book on the Peasants Revolt, included a comparison between Corbyn and Wat Tyler
Was it suggested that Corbyn might be killed during negotiations like Wat Tyler?
Earlier on I commented that Corbyn did well at PMQS. Credit where due and all that. But I suggested him doing well was largely moot because the whole shadow cabinet operation is largely pathetic.
After watching the C4 Burgon interview you get a sense of the scale of Labour's problem. He was absolutely woeful. In fact, he was unprepared and plain fucking stupid. It's not good enough and Labour grassroots workers deserve better.
Mr Fenster you may be right about PMQs, however given the the problems that come with govt we have to expect difficult questions at PMQs, and droning through them is not bad but it is not inspiring.
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
Rushanara Ali nominated Corbyn for the leadership.
Shabana Mahmood is Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
In the last 25 years, there have been only 2 years when spending was less than revenue earned.
Both Labour years !
When they followed Tory spending plans.
How come the Tories themselves could not follow their own spending plans and manage do to do it ? Between 1992 and 1997 , they had already been in power for 13 years !!!!
There was a stonking great recession in the early 90's. Or had you forgotten?
How come you had not prepared for it ? Since you keep on saying Labour should have prepared for the World wide credit crunch in 2008-9.
Was the 90's recession bigger or smaller than the 2008-9 WWCC which was, of course, all Labour's fault.
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
Rushanara Ali nominated Corbyn for the leadership.
Shabana Mahmood is Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
Rushanara Ali nominated Corbyn for the leadership.
Shabana Mahmood is Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
Fiona Mactaggart Rushanara Ali Ian Austin Ben Bradshaw Adrian Bailey Shabana Mahmood Ann Coffey Andrew Smith Simon Danczuk Jamie Reed Chris Evans Graham Stringer Frank Field Gisela Stuart Mike Gapes Margaret Hodge Tristram Hunt Graham Jones Helen Jones Liz Kendall Chris Leslie
Rushanara Ali nominated Corbyn for the leadership.
Shabana Mahmood is Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
Went to an interesting coversation this evening between Melvyn Bragg and Andrew Neil too on Bragg's new book on the Peasants Revolt, included a comparison between Corbyn and Wat Tyler
Was it suggested that Corbyn might be killed during negotiations like Wat Tyler?
Was it suggested that Tyler was a 30 year serial rebel.
If the Blairite wing of the party is now only realy 21 MPs, it's not much bigger than the Corbyn wing. I'm assuming a decent number stood down at the last election.
If they abstain on any benefits related bill, the knives will be out.
In the last 25 years, there have been only 2 years when spending was less than revenue earned.
Both Labour years !
When they followed Tory spending plans.
How come the Tories themselves could not follow their own spending plans and manage do to do it ? Between 1992 and 1997 , they had already been in power for 13 years !!!!
There was a stonking great recession in the early 90's. Or had you forgotten?
How come you had not prepared for it ? Since you keep on saying Labour should have prepared for the World wide credit crunch in 2008-9.
1992 - 1997 . The national debt kept on rising !
Possibly something to do with the disaster that was our membership of the ERM? Once we left that, economic policy got a lot better.
@suttonnick: Thursday's Times front page: First new grammar in 50 years approved #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
She will have to explain to me why they are bad - as it has been so long since the last new one opened, and with all these academies and faith schools and community voluntary aided schools or whatever various other types are called, and as someone without children, the educational waters are muddied and I don't ever recall it being explained to me why Grammar schools are bad.
Rough clip (and I still don't understand why he ever took his initial position in the first place), but all things considered the actual vote could have been worse, and it was apparently only the new awkward squad for the most part.
@suttonnick: Thursday's Times front page: First new grammar in 50 years approved #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
She will have to explain to me why they are bad - as it has been so long since the last new one opened, and with all these academies and faith schools and community voluntary aided schools or whatever various other types are called, and as someone without children, the educational waters are muddied and I don't ever recall it being explained to me why Grammar schools are bad.
Article of faith since the 1950s - sorting children into two groups at age 11 is evil.
If the Blairite wing of the party is now only realy 21 MPs, it's not much bigger than the Corbyn wing. I'm assuming a decent number stood down at the last election.
If they abstain on any benefits related bill, the knives will be out.
All this fuss for 21 MP's?
Storm in a tea cup time. I like the quote from an unnamed shadow cabinet figure who abstained describing it as total chaos (which accurately describes the state of the anti-corbyn revolt).
@PCollinsTimes: If he's still there by then (he won't be) John McDonnell saying "embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing" is the Tory election campaign
In the last 25 years, there have been only 2 years when spending was less than revenue earned.
Both Labour years !
When they followed Tory spending plans.
How come the Tories themselves could not follow their own spending plans and manage do to do it ? Between 1992 and 1997 , they had already been in power for 13 years !!!!
There was a stonking great recession in the early 90's. Or had you forgotten?
How come you had not prepared for it ? Since you keep on saying Labour should have prepared for the World wide credit crunch in 2008-9.
Was the 90's recession bigger or smaller than the 2008-9 WWCC which was, of course, all Labour's fault.
1992 - 1997 . The national debt kept on rising !
Well Indeed, but you would expect the Labour government of the time after the Prawn Cocktail circuit not to make things worse by disbanding good financial policing and inserting twattery ...... and ....and the pieced de resistance.....
Saddo that I am, I have made studious plans for the Zombie Apocalypse and for colonising Mars, so little things annoyed me no end, if there's one thing I hate more than bad history in films it is bad science. (Is like a form of OCD)
@suttonnick: Thursday's Times front page: First new grammar in 50 years approved #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
I do not think grammars make sense given where we are now. Was this a govt initiative or a local govt one. I read that 1500 children in Kent are set to miss out on grammar school places. No idea why, just the headline.
That is a truly terrible moment of video. A few seconds, but - ooof.
I thought McDonnell was meant, at least, to be a cunning operator? It turns out the cauldron of the Commons sauteed his cullions.
Politics is harder than it looks.
I chatted to someone at the Tory conference last week, he said Corbyn and McDonnell have spent the last 30 years spending time with only people who agree with them.
They've not been out of their comfort zone and it shows.
The Martian is the best film I've seen in years. Funny, heartwarming, but (unlike something like Gravity) effective building of tension, great soundtrack, and presented as plausible enough to the layman without seeming like magic or nonsense was needed to resolve the plot.
I've seen in twice already, a very rare event, and I only went to see it on a whim in the first place.
Burgon is actually going down in flames AGAIN. On Newsnight.
This must be a record. Twice in one night
How long can this gravity defying go on? Let's face it if these things did not matter then Homer Simpson could be leader of the opposition. Do we know the real numbers yet, was it the magnificent 37 or the motley 21?
@suttonnick: Thursday's Times front page: First new grammar in 50 years approved #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
She will have to explain to me why they are bad - as it has been so long since the last new one opened, and with all these academies and faith schools and community voluntary aided schools or whatever various other types are called, and as someone without children, the educational waters are muddied and I don't ever recall it being explained to me why Grammar schools are bad.
For Lefties, Grammar schools are the spawn of Satan.
Went to an interesting coversation this evening between Melvyn Bragg and Andrew Neil too on Bragg's new book on the Peasants Revolt, included a comparison between Corbyn and Wat Tyler
Go on, Mr. HYUFD, you can't drop a teaser in like that and sat no more. Are we to think that either Bragg or Neil expects Corbyn to attack the sovereign, behead the Archbishop of Canterbury and finally die under the Lord Mayor's dagger? Will Corbyn sack and burn the Savoy (going to be some upset Arabs if he does) or, perhaps, oversee the mass destruction of legal and property records?
Of course it is true that a great many of Tyler's followers ended up ruined.
Melvyn B did say he thought Corbyn could mirror the aims of the Peasants Revolt for further decentralisation of power but was unsure what he stood for
I'm trying to think of a thicker interviewee, my mind drifts to that Scot Lab MP during the expenses saga who essentially pleaded guilty to a crime in a c4 interview.
[I've never seen 'that' interview of the Tory MP from Norwich]
Went to an interesting coversation this evening between Melvyn Bragg and Andrew Neil too on Bragg's new book on the Peasants Revolt, included a comparison between Corbyn and Wat Tyler
Was it suggested that Corbyn might be killed during negotiations like Wat Tyler?
Bragg did suggest that had Tyler gone with aides (many war veterans) rather than on his own to meet the King and his entourage history may have been different, though of course Richard 11 was equally brave in going alone to meet the rebels, making lots of promises which led to their dispersal before swiftly ordering brutal punishments once they had returned to their homes
@suttonnick: Thursday's Times front page: First new grammar in 50 years approved #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
She will have to explain to me why they are bad - as it has been so long since the last new one opened, and with all these academies and faith schools and community voluntary aided schools or whatever various other types are called, and as someone without children, the educational waters are muddied and I don't ever recall it being explained to me why Grammar schools are bad.
Comes down to two things.
1. Dividing children too firmly at age 11 is foolish, since children develop at different rates and stages (added to this the point that the time of year you're born at is still a big factor at that age.
2. A lot of it was that secondary modern's (i.e. where you went if not a grammar school) were a big drop off from grammar schools.
(As a side note, am I alone in wishing we'd change the structure of the school year away from it's current set up with a massive summer break to a more year-round thing? I quite firmly think that'd be better. I also toy with the idea of multiple start points in the year, so children aren't so divided by a fixed date in the year).
Went to an interesting coversation this evening between Melvyn Bragg and Andrew Neil too on Bragg's new book on the Peasants Revolt, included a comparison between Corbyn and Wat Tyler
Go on, Mr. HYUFD, you can't drop a teaser in like that and sat no more. Are we to think that either Bragg or Neil expects Corbyn to attack the sovereign, behead the Archbishop of Canterbury and finally die under the Lord Mayor's dagger? Will Corbyn sack and burn the Savoy (going to be some upset Arabs if he does) or, perhaps, oversee the mass destruction of legal and property records?
Of course it is true that a great many of Tyler's followers ended up ruined.
Melvyn B did say he thought Corbyn could mirror the aims of the Peasants Revolt for further decentralisation of power but was unsure what he stood for
Were not the peasants revolting against a one party state? Whereas the only states Corbyn is noted for supporting are one party states?
Scottish MPs will be blocked from voting on English-only laws under new plans to be brought before the Commons next week.
The timing of the announcement is intended as a deliberate provocation of the Scottish National party at the start of its annual conference, according to Tory sources.
@suttonnick: Thursday's Times front page: First new grammar in 50 years approved #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
She will have to explain to me why they are bad - as it has been so long since the last new one opened, and with all these academies and faith schools and community voluntary aided schools or whatever various other types are called, and as someone without children, the educational waters are muddied and I don't ever recall it being explained to me why Grammar schools are bad.
For Lefties, Grammar schools are the spawn of Satan.
@suttonnick: Thursday's Times front page: First new grammar in 50 years approved #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
She will have to explain to me why they are bad - as it has been so long since the last new one opened, and with all these academies and faith schools and community voluntary aided schools or whatever various other types are called, and as someone without children, the educational waters are muddied and I don't ever recall it being explained to me why Grammar schools are bad.
For Lefties, Grammar schools are the spawn of Satan.
I saw earlier that a shad cab member told the Whips he/she was going to abstain and was told he/she would be sacked if they did but to instead be absent. So they said they'd gone for a meal.
So who is it out of this list?
Paul Waugh ✔ @paulwaugh For sake of completeness, here's Lab MPs who didn't vote but who had prior commitments (not inc watching Apprentice) pic.twitter.com/W8meNOWEOR
Is it too soon to say Burgon could be the next leader of the labour party given the trajectory of labour leadership talent?
Cambridge will be asking for their degree back. No-one that dense could possibly have passed finals without 'help'
Maybe he is smart in some other hard to detect way, but he plainly hasn't a clue about, or any experience for the job he's meant to be doing. It's a bit like the fat health minister in Belgium, you have to wonder how they were picked.
That is a truly terrible moment of video. A few seconds, but - ooof.
I thought McDonnell was meant, at least, to be a cunning operator? It turns out the cauldron of the Commons sauteed his cullions.
Politics is harder than it looks.
I chatted to someone at the Tory conference last week, he said Corbyn and McDonnell have spent the last 30 years spending time with only people who agree with them.
They've not been out of their comfort zone and it shows.
I've seen that written a few times online, by more shrewd observers than me. Neither of them have gone outside their own like minded friends in years, wandering between TUC conferences and stop the war coalition meetings together and discussing how the SDP caused Thatchers reign of terror etc etc. They are thought of as deep thinkers by some, not sure what that is based on aside from them looking like college dons minus the qualifications.
@suttonnick: Thursday's Times front page: First new grammar in 50 years approved #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
She will have to explain to me why they are bad - as it has been so long since the last new one opened, and with all these academies and faith schools and community voluntary aided schools or whatever various other types are called, and as someone without children, the educational waters are muddied and I don't ever recall it being explained to me why Grammar schools are bad.
(As a side note, am I alone in wishing we'd change the structure of the school year away from it's current set up with a massive summer break to a more year-round thing?
Last year I witnessed a debate between school children on that very subject. While obviously the topic would have been chosen by the teacher, I was the only adult in the room who wasn't their teacher or their TA, so I'm minded to believe they were honest as it wasn't for an audience, and I was surprised at the differing opinions they held on the subject, with about a third in the final vote agreeing that a move away from a long summer break was as good thing, which is more than I would have thought for 9 year olds.
Scottish MPs will be blocked from voting on English-only laws under new plans to be brought before the Commons next week. The timing of the announcement is intended as a deliberate provocation of the Scottish National party at the start of its annual conference, according to Tory sources.
Is there a book on the number of exploding heads? Why is the SNP holding its conference so late? Will its MPs be there or at Westminster?
(As a side note, am I alone in wishing we'd change the structure of the school year away from it's current set up with a massive summer break to a more year-round thing? I quite firmly think that'd be better. I also toy with the idea of multiple start points in the year, so children aren't so divided by a fixed date in the year).
I completely agree with both those points, it is an antiquated schedule that could be improved upon.
That is a truly terrible moment of video. A few seconds, but - ooof.
I thought McDonnell was meant, at least, to be a cunning operator? It turns out the cauldron of the Commons sauteed his cullions.
Politics is harder than it looks.
I chatted to someone at the Tory conference last week, he said Corbyn and McDonnell have spent the last 30 years spending time with only people who agree with them.
They've not been out of their comfort zone and it shows.
I've seen that written a few times online, by more shrewd observers than me. Neither of them have gone outside their own like minded friends in years, wandering between TUC conferences and stop the war coalition meetings together and discussing how the SDP caused Thatchers reign of terror etc etc. They are thought of as deep thinkers by some, not sure what that is based on aside from them looking like college dons minus the qualifications.
The other part of the convo was that Corbyn nor McDonnell have been Cabinet/Shadow Ministers, so they've not had the chance to hone their skills.
Got me thinking who was the last party leader without any front bench experience to become leader?
@suttonnick: Thursday's Times front page: First new grammar in 50 years approved #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
She will have to explain to me why they are bad - as it has been so long since the last new one opened, and with all these academies and faith schools and community voluntary aided schools or whatever various other types are called, and as someone without children, the educational waters are muddied and I don't ever recall it being explained to me why Grammar schools are bad.
Grammar schools are apparently really really bad because every child is equally gifted in absolutely everything and one size fits all. All shall have prizes. Helping one child achieve their potential is BAD because it's ONLY FAIR that everyone should equally fail in everything equally. Or something. Scatter the word "fair" in there a few extra times and re-heat to taste.
They didn't poll Biden this time because he wasn't on the debate stage. Now every democratic party candidate is polling more than Jeb Bush in his own race.
That is a truly terrible moment of video. A few seconds, but - ooof.
I thought McDonnell was meant, at least, to be a cunning operator? It turns out the cauldron of the Commons sauteed his cullions.
Politics is harder than it looks.
I chatted to someone at the Tory conference last week, he said Corbyn and McDonnell have spent the last 30 years spending time with only people who agree with them.
They've not been out of their comfort zone and it shows.
I've seen that written a few times online, by more shrewd observers than me. Neither of them have gone outside their own like minded friends in years, wandering between TUC conferences and stop the war coalition meetings together and discussing how the SDP caused Thatchers reign of terror etc etc. They are thought of as deep thinkers by some, not sure what that is based on aside from them looking like college dons minus the qualifications.
The other part of the convo was that Corbyn nor McDonnell have been Cabinet/Shadow Ministers, so they've not had the chance to hone their skills.
Got me thinking who was the last party leader without any front bench experience to become leader?
The fact that even with the uber-churn that happened under Blair and Brown neither got any brief should indicated their standing to people. They are gesture politicians, they want what is best for the people without getting all that messy compromise on their cardigans to actually get anything done. The worst kind of person, that makes good the enemy of perfect....well their perfect anyway.
Scottish MPs will be blocked from voting on English-only laws under new plans to be brought before the Commons next week.
The timing of the announcement is intended as a deliberate provocation of the Scottish National party at the start of its annual conference, according to Tory sources.
Scottish MPs will be blocked from voting on English-only laws under new plans to be brought before the Commons next week.
The timing of the announcement is intended as a deliberate provocation of the Scottish National party at the start of its annual conference, according to Tory sources.
Hoping to give the SNP some fuel for their conference I presume. Are Dave and Nicola in a co-dependent relationship?
@suttonnick: Thursday's Times front page: First new grammar in 50 years approved #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
She will have to explain to me why they are bad - as it has been so long since the last new one opened, and with all these academies and faith schools and community voluntary aided schools or whatever various other types are called, and as someone without children, the educational waters are muddied and I don't ever recall it being explained to me why Grammar schools are bad.
(As a side note, am I alone in wishing we'd change the structure of the school year away from it's current set up with a massive summer break to a more year-round thing?
Last year I witnessed a debate between school children on that very subject. While obviously the topic would have been chosen by the teacher, I was the only adult in the room who wasn't their teacher or their TA, so I'm minded to believe they were honest, and I was surprised at the differing opinions they held on the subject, with about a third in the final vote agreeing that a move away from a long summer break was as good thing, which is more than I would have thought for 9 year olds.
I have a memory floating around that a lot of social mobility is damaged by a long summer break. Pupils from better off households (well both better off and more educationally focussed, which correlates to an extent) are more likely to read/retain knowledge/do helpful things for their development over the summer, whereas other children fall behind.
Whereas if you split holidays up into shorter blocks through the year then you don't get as much drop off and it helps those kids with potential but from less helpful/supportive/educationally-focused backgrounds.
Plus things about it being easier to parents from a childcare kind of things (easier to chain things like family cover and time off work in small chunks than to cover a six week period) and greater flexibility about the timing of family holidays etc.
(I'm not sure if the old thing about the school year being based on children having time off to help with the farming is true or not).
The terms thing is a pet idea of mine (I'm sure others have thought of it in more details of course). That you join at the first term start date after your birthday, complete 3 terms then move up to the next year, so the children enter and progress on a staggered basis.
Makes sense to me but I haven't analysed deeply etc.
(As a side note, am I alone in wishing we'd change the structure of the school year away from it's current set up with a massive summer break to a more year-round thing? I quite firmly think that'd be better. I also toy with the idea of multiple start points in the year, so children aren't so divided by a fixed date in the year).
I completely agree with both those points, it is an antiquated schedule that could be improved upon.
Is it an urban myth that the the State school calendar is designed around medieval harvest times?
Our children go to the local Jewish school and holidays/term times vary slightly each year from other local schools in line with the religious holidays. The school has the freedom to set term times independently which suits the families and teachers hugely.
@suttonnick: Thursday's Times front page: First new grammar in 50 years approved #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
I do not think grammars make sense given where we are now. Was this a govt initiative or a local govt one. I read that 1500 children in Kent are set to miss out on grammar school places. No idea why, just the headline.
Children in Kent miss out on grammar school places because there is so much demand for those places from outside Kent (e.g. Surrey, East Sussex, Essex and London). Passing the 11+ around here does not guarantee a grammar school place.
Comments
In the mid 90s everyone was taking the piss out of the dying Conservative Government. Papers, TV, BBC. Did anyone suggest democracy was dying then - I don't think so.
Although girls do look nice with gloves on
What does it matter what the Chinese President will be wearing? If Corbyn's principles tell him he should turn up in a T shirt and jeans then that is what he should wear. The insult to the hosts and other guests will not be not less if he turns up in a lounge suit (has he got one?).
Anyway, I see our fellow posters have given you the information you desired in regards as to who abstained tonight. So I'll repeat, what are you going to do with this information?
.....
@bbclaurak: .... Labour MPs who abstained cont.... Stuart, Mike Gapes, Margaret Hodge, Tristram Hunt, Jones, Helen Jones
, Kendall, Leslie
Nevada
Trump – 38%
Carson – 22%
Fiorina – 8%
Rubio – 7%
Bush – 6%
Cruz – 4%
Huckabee – 4%
All others – Less than 2%
South Carolina
Trump – 36%
Carson – 18%
Rubio – 9%
Fiorina – 7%
Bush – 6%
Cruz – 5%
Graham – 5%
Paul – 4%
Huckabee – 3%
All others – Less than 2%
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/14/politics/republican-poll-donald-trump-nevada-south-carolina/
Shabana Mahmood is Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
Rest pretty much expected?
That's always going to dent their batting average.
I loathe Corbyn and his acolytes even more than I loathed Brown.. and that's saying something and because they are even more dangerous loons.
Or had you forgotten?
37 dodgers is a bit more than 21, so labour are a bit frit over this.
Of course it is true that a great many of Tyler's followers ended up ruined.
Shabana Mahmood isn't Shadow Chief Secretary, Seema Malhotra is Shadow Chief Secretary
Was the 90's recession bigger or smaller than the 2008-9 WWCC which was, of course, all Labour's fault.
1992 - 1997 . The national debt kept on rising !
@hopisen: @PeterMannionMP @philipjcowley @DavidMills73 it's a really silly thing to do, both in terms of precedent and politics.
If they abstain on any benefits related bill, the knives will be out.
Once we left that, economic policy got a lot better.
First new grammar in 50 years approved
#tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/ylauHS5EFG
@LucyMPowell: So after Cameron & @NickyMorgan01 said I was scaremongering, they are opening new grammar schools. What a retrograde step.
Edit: Mrs M loved the music too. The offspring M's were more meh.
The science is supposed to be pretty sound though or at lease very plausible, I thought from reading various sources:
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nine-real-nasa-technologies-in-the-martian
This seems to be an interesting Good/Bad summary of the science:
http://space.io9.com/science-of-the-martian-the-good-the-bad-and-the-fasc-1734726471
Storm in a tea cup time.
I like the quote from an unnamed shadow cabinet figure who abstained describing it as total chaos (which accurately describes the state of the anti-corbyn revolt).
He's on Newsnight too!!!
Popcorn. Howse his diary looking?
announcing gold to be sold. Then selling it.
Way to go heartbeat......way to go...... NOT
I 'love' this guy,
But overall loved the film.
I read that 1500 children in Kent are set to miss out on grammar school places. No idea why, just the headline.
They've not been out of their comfort zone and it shows.
I've seen in twice already, a very rare event, and I only went to see it on a whim in the first place.
PS have you noticed the last day of the England test and the Spurs v Liverpool match coincide?
What's Spurs and England record like when that happens?
Do we know the real numbers yet, was it the magnificent 37 or the motley 21?
[I've never seen 'that' interview of the Tory MP from Norwich]
What's the phrase?
Oh, yes.
Embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing...
1. Dividing children too firmly at age 11 is foolish, since children develop at different rates and stages (added to this the point that the time of year you're born at is still a big factor at that age.
2. A lot of it was that secondary modern's (i.e. where you went if not a grammar school) were a big drop off from grammar schools.
(As a side note, am I alone in wishing we'd change the structure of the school year away from it's current set up with a massive summer break to a more year-round thing? I quite firmly think that'd be better. I also toy with the idea of multiple start points in the year, so children aren't so divided by a fixed date in the year).
Scottish MPs will be blocked from voting on English-only laws under new plans to be brought before the Commons next week.
The timing of the announcement is intended as a deliberate provocation of the Scottish National party at the start of its annual conference, according to Tory sources.
So who is it out of this list?
Paul Waugh ✔ @paulwaugh
For sake of completeness, here's Lab MPs who didn't vote but who had prior commitments (not inc watching Apprentice) pic.twitter.com/W8meNOWEOR
They are thought of as deep thinkers by some, not sure what that is based on aside from them looking like college dons minus the qualifications.
Why is the SNP holding its conference so late? Will its MPs be there or at Westminster?
Nick Sutton ✔ @suttonnick
Thursday's Sun front page:
One-oui tickets to Calais
#tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/iKyCi1d1t3
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/654410782487257088/photo/1
Got me thinking who was the last party leader without any front bench experience to become leader?
Or something. Scatter the word "fair" in there a few extra times and re-heat to taste.
http://www.hngn.com/articles/140151/20151014/sanders-wins-first-democratic-debates-according-nearly-poll.htm
And a fresh post debate poll from Gravis Marketing:
Hillary 42 (-2)
Sanders 34 (+9)
Webb 12 (+9)
Chaffe 8 (+6)
O'Malley 6 (+4)
They didn't poll Biden this time because he wasn't on the debate stage.
Now every democratic party candidate is polling more than Jeb Bush in his own race.
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
They are gesture politicians, they want what is best for the people without getting all that messy compromise on their cardigans to actually get anything done. The worst kind of person, that makes good the enemy of perfect....well their perfect anyway.
Whereas if you split holidays up into shorter blocks through the year then you don't get as much drop off and it helps those kids with potential but from less helpful/supportive/educationally-focused backgrounds.
Plus things about it being easier to parents from a childcare kind of things (easier to chain things like family cover and time off work in small chunks than to cover a six week period) and greater flexibility about the timing of family holidays etc.
(I'm not sure if the old thing about the school year being based on children having time off to help with the farming is true or not).
The terms thing is a pet idea of mine (I'm sure others have thought of it in more details of course). That you join at the first term start date after your birthday, complete 3 terms then move up to the next year, so the children enter and progress on a staggered basis.
Makes sense to me but I haven't analysed deeply etc.
Our children go to the local Jewish school and holidays/term times vary slightly each year from other local schools in line with the religious holidays. The school has the freedom to set term times independently which suits the families and teachers hugely.
Britain Elects @britainelects
On allowing more Syrian refugees to settle in Britain:
Support: 31%
Oppose: 59%
(via YouGov)
This after all the media(especially the bbc) used all it's propaganda like the little boy on the beach for thousands more refugee's to come here.