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SystemSystem Posts: 12,685
edited September 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Cameron versus Corbyn – the first Ipsos MORI comparison since LAB’s new leader took over

Ipsos MORI/Standard poll on Cameron vs Corbyn
http://t.co/Dx8eHfXtGU pic.twitter.com/TmBGxko6Dt

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    Killer numbers. Corbyn will destroy Labour.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    I actually particpated in this poll.

    Corbyn is, in effect, confirming existing perceptions of Labour as unfit to govern, and its leader as non-prime ministerial.

    I struggled to answer these for Farron.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    The voting intention & leader favourability figures should be up later today. Could the Tories be in the 40s, or Labour in the 20s? I'll guess at 39-30.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    Divided: 75 plays 38. Labour have added 32% to their divided number. And that is before the wars really start. The public have a pretty shrewd notion of how this is going to play out already.

    Punters don't vote for divided parties.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Tissue_Price said:

    The voting intention & leader favourability figures should be up later today. Could the Tories be in the 40s, or Labour in the 20s? I'll guess at 39-30.

    My guess is that we might have to wait till tomorrow for the rest of the data. The Standard usually has two stabs at getting stories out of its pol.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Out of date, extreme, divided and unpatriotic - what's not to like?
    MarqueeMark said:

    Killer numbers. Corbyn will destroy Labour.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    Those patriotic figures are a killer.

    The country will never elect someone they consider unpatriotic
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,113
    MarqueeMark said:

    Divided: 75 plays 38. Labour have added 32% to their divided number. And that is before the wars really start. The public have a pretty shrewd notion of how this is going to play out already.

    Punters don't vote for divided parties.

    Yep, it's the divided number that's the biggest issue in that lot so far as I can see.

    The rifts are real and very public, and the PLP needs to recognise the new reality that this is Jezza's party now ! 59% of the vote. That's a bigger % than Blair achieved.

    Obviously they probably won't win whatever happens, but trying to keep their rifts somewhat private might bump them from say 170 to 190 seats !
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    @JosiasJessop Thanx for James Randi tip - will check out on iPlayer.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2015
    Alarming that as many as 35% think Labour is currently fit to govern, but I imagine that figure will drop quite a bit more as the spectacle continues.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092
    FPT & OT:

    As Chinese companies are invited to get involved with British high-speed rail projects, British railway companies win contracts on American high-speed rail projects.

    http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/28/brits-move-to-california/
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Out of date, extreme, divided and unpatriotic...

    sounds like Basil Fawlty's comments after the hotel inspector's long list of complaints

    'Other than that OK....????'
  • isamisam Posts: 42,625
    Plato_Says said:

    Out of date, extreme, divided and unpatriotic - what's not to like?

    MarqueeMark said:

    Killer numbers. Corbyn will destroy Labour.

    You cant really justify "extreme" there, but still not good numbers
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :lol:
    taffys said:

    Out of date, extreme, divided and unpatriotic...

    sounds like Basil Fawlty's comments after the hotel inspector's long list of complaints

    'Other than that OK....????'

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Alarming that as many as 35% think Labour is currently fit to govern, but I imagine that figure will drop quite a bit more as the spectacle continues.''

    And, as the last election shows, there's a big difference between answering a poll and putting a cross on a ballot.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092
    edited September 2015
    Plato_Says said:

    @JosiasJessop Thanx for James Randi tip - will check out on iPlayer.

    I hope you enjoy it. Don't read up on his life on Wiki - it might spoil what becomes a rather odd drama at the end.

    As an aside, there was a British TV program a decade or so ago where Randi goes into a science lab that claimed to have scientifically proven homoeopathy. By doing a strict double-blind experiment (including taping results in a sealed envelope to the ceiling) he managed to prove that their procedures were pants, and it was their processes at fault.

    The scientists were rather upset by this.

    For this alone, Randi deserves some form of honour.

    Edit: my memory was more or less correct:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,931
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Those patriotic figures are a killer.

    The country will never elect someone they consider unpatriotic

    "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Dr Johnson
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    JosiasJessop said:

    FPT & OT:

    As Chinese companies are invited to get involved with British high-speed rail projects, British railway companies win contracts on American high-speed rail projects.

    http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/28/brits-move-to-california/

    Network Rail? They can't even get the existing lines into Waterloo running properly.

    The Yanks are dooooooomed.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,931
    MarqueeMark said:

    Killer numbers. Corbyn will destroy Labour.

    #DUJCA

    :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,931
    watford30 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    FPT & OT:

    As Chinese companies are invited to get involved with British high-speed rail projects, British railway companies win contracts on American high-speed rail projects.

    http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/28/brits-move-to-california/

    Network Rail? They can't even get the existing lines into Waterloo running properly.

    The Yanks are dooooooomed.
    Upper deck of the re-vamped Birmingham New Street station opened today - "Grand Central" shopping centre. Unfortunately, the down escalators onto the concourse level weren't working!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Those patriotic figures are a killer.

    The country will never elect someone they consider unpatriotic

    "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Dr Johnson
    Indeed and why do you think the Tories used it on Ed during the election ?

    It works.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    Looks like the eariler media blitz on Corbyn has worked pretty much...
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    This poll also tells you swinehead revisited doesn't matter.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The jump in some of those numbers are eye-boggling.
    Slackbladder said:

    Looks like the eariler media blitz on Corbyn has worked pretty much...

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,931
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Those patriotic figures are a killer.

    The country will never elect someone they consider unpatriotic

    "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Dr Johnson
    Indeed and why do you think the Tories used it on Ed during the election ?

    It works.
    "Patriotism, i.e., a willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons." - Bertrand Russell
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,386
    JosiasJessop said:

    FPT & OT:

    As Chinese companies are invited to get involved with British high-speed rail projects, British railway companies win contracts on American high-speed rail projects.

    http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/28/brits-move-to-california/

    That's a Canadian company and a US company!
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    looks like the earlier media blitz on Corbyn has worked pretty much...

    Yeah its all the right wing media's fault. Everybody loves Jeremy's policies.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn opens his Ipsos MORI satisfaction ratings with a net minus 3% - the worst opening figure ever by a new LAB leader
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    edited September 2015
    Slackbladder said:

    Looks like the eariler media blitz on Corbyn has worked pretty much...

    Do you think Corbyn is patriotic, a nice scottish woman asked me.

    In that moment, all I could think was: won't sing the national anthem, didn't back intervention in the Falklands, happy to let NI go without further comment... whatever the merits of those positions, they aren't patriotic.

    I was polled before pig-gate.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,625
    edited September 2015
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Those patriotic figures are a killer.

    The country will never elect someone they consider unpatriotic

    "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Dr Johnson
    Indeed and why do you think the Tories used it on Ed during the election ?

    It works.
    Hope they use it on Sadiq then... although saying that it could work against them in London
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It was wall to wall in the Mail online for 3 days - I felt it was complete overkill for not much content. It put me off visiting their site as it shoved more entertaining bread/butter stuff out.
    LadyBucket said:

    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    Corbyn's ratings are worse than Hague and IDS
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn opens his Ipsos MORI satisfaction ratings with a net minus 3% - the worst opening figure ever by a new LAB leader

    And this is the honeymoon.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,113
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn opens his Ipsos MORI satisfaction ratings with a net minus 3% - the worst opening figure ever by a new LAB leader

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu9A9rOTjFY
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    taffys said:

    looks like the earlier media blitz on Corbyn has worked pretty much...

    Yeah its all the right wing media's fault. Everybody loves Jeremy's policies.

    It's the age old mistake that both Miliband and now Corbyn have made.

    If you don't define your own image, then other people will do it for you.

    Problem is Corbyns image IS pretty much what he's now seen as, whereas with Ed, he was just too much of a non-entity that it allowed people to portay him a different number of unflattering ways.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,625
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn opens his Ipsos MORI satisfaction ratings with a net minus 3% - the worst opening figure ever by a new LAB leader

    Isn't it a little odd to post a tweet from someone who is posting on this thread anyway?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,931
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This poll also tells you swinehead revisited doesn't matter.

    Pork & Ride
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    Plato_Says said:

    It was wall to wall in the Mail online for 3 days - I felt it was complete overkill for not much content. It put me off visiting their site as it shoved more entertaining bread/butter stuff out.

    LadyBucket said:

    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.

    You forgot to add: the conference may back mandatory re-selection of MPs..

    At that point, I suspect the real fun will start.

    "Those whom the gods will destroy, they first make mad"...seems apposite.

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    Sky News ‏@SkyNews 4 mins4 minutes ago

    At least 717 people are now thought to have been killed in the stampede outside Mecca http://bit.ly/1VaQRnh

    wow, thats a lot of people, and it seems to happen every year..

    why can't something be done about this?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,931
    jayfdee said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn opens his Ipsos MORI satisfaction ratings with a net minus 3% - the worst opening figure ever by a new LAB leader

    And this is the honeymoon.
    Honeymoons? Honeymoons are a right-wing, Bourgeois, Tory concept!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    The Labour conference coverage will be all about splits and plots. There's nothing which political journalists like more, and they'll have a field day.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ed Blank Sheet Of Paper Miliband... in action.
    Slackbladder said:

    taffys said:

    looks like the earlier media blitz on Corbyn has worked pretty much...

    Yeah its all the right wing media's fault. Everybody loves Jeremy's policies.

    It's the age old mistake that both Miliband and now Corbyn have made.

    If you don't define your own image, then other people will do it for you.

    Problem is Corbyns image IS pretty much what he's now seen as, whereas with Ed, he was just too much of a non-entity that it allowed people to portay him a different number of unflattering ways.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    Slackbladder said:

    Sky News ‏@SkyNews 4 mins4 minutes ago

    At least 717 people are now thought to have been killed in the stampede outside Mecca http://bit.ly/1VaQRnh

    wow, thats a lot of people, and it seems to happen every year..

    why can't something be done about this?

    They did. They made the bit where this happens safer and there's been fewer incidents in recent years.

    When I went where you go throw stones at the devil it's a bit like the first twenty minutes of Saving Private Ryan
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,931
    madasafish said:

    Plato_Says said:

    It was wall to wall in the Mail online for 3 days - I felt it was complete overkill for not much content. It put me off visiting their site as it shoved more entertaining bread/butter stuff out.

    LadyBucket said:

    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.

    You forgot to add: the conference may back mandatory re-selection of MPs..

    At that point, I suspect the real fun will start.

    "Those whom the gods will destroy, they first make mad"...seems apposite.

    "See, madness, as you know, is like gravity: all it takes is a little push!" - The Joker
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm bulk-buying popcorn - it's IMO a terrible place to make decisions - all group think and echo chamber reassurance.

    Maybe some more moderate attendees will save the day - but saying the will of conference is setting Party policy is madness.
    madasafish said:

    Plato_Says said:

    It was wall to wall in the Mail online for 3 days - I felt it was complete overkill for not much content. It put me off visiting their site as it shoved more entertaining bread/butter stuff out.

    LadyBucket said:

    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.

    You forgot to add: the conference may back mandatory re-selection of MPs..

    At that point, I suspect the real fun will start.

    "Those whom the gods will destroy, they first make mad"...seems apposite.

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    -3


    Arf.
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    madasafish said:

    Plato_Says said:

    It was wall to wall in the Mail online for 3 days - I felt it was complete overkill for not much content. It put me off visiting their site as it shoved more entertaining bread/butter stuff out.

    LadyBucket said:

    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.

    You forgot to add: the conference may back mandatory re-selection of MPs..

    At that point, I suspect the real fun will start.

    "Those whom the gods will destroy, they first make mad"...seems apposite.

    "See, madness, as you know, is like gravity: all it takes is a little push!" - The Joker
    Yes: my nickname says it all..:-)
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    This is the first concrete sign that English voters won;t simply allow Labour to be one of two dominant parties, whoever they appoint and whatever they do.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This poll also tells you swinehead revisited doesn't matter.

    WHAT???!!!!

    You mean this poll was fielded after Cameron's reputation was 'destroyed', rendered the 'laughing stock of Europe' and if he didn't sue 'would be proof of guilt'?

    I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,113
    @BenM tweeted:

    "Mark Easton ‏@BBCMarkEaston 3h3 hours ago Tottenham, London

    Shocking 25% INCREASE in homeless families with children living in B&Bs in England since last summer."

    B&Bs ?

    Luxury ! Whats wrong with providing them with a tent !
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,198
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    watford30 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    FPT & OT:

    As Chinese companies are invited to get involved with British high-speed rail projects, British railway companies win contracts on American high-speed rail projects.

    http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/28/brits-move-to-california/

    Network Rail? They can't even get the existing lines into Waterloo running properly.

    The Yanks are dooooooomed.
    Upper deck of the re-vamped Birmingham New Street station opened today - "Grand Central" shopping centre. Unfortunately, the down escalators onto the concourse level weren't working!
    I bet the platform level is still a dungeon.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    CarlottaVance said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This poll also tells you swinehead revisited doesn't matter.

    WHAT???!!!!

    You mean this poll was fielded after Cameron's reputation was 'destroyed', rendered the 'laughing stock of Europe' and if he didn't sue 'would be proof of guilt'?

    I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!
    I'm shocked Dave is still PM. I mean Coulson, Pastygate, Going to Morrisons, Chickening out of the debates were all career enders
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    taffys said:

    This is the first concrete sign that English voters won;t simply allow Labour to be one of two dominant parties, whoever they appoint and whatever they do.


    I would turn it round the other way: it shows how out of touch Corbyn and Labour are with their core voters..

    "Even Ed was better." - Kiss of Death.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @election_data: One for the Lab-UKIP watchers: the Pontefract North by-election today. Expect Lab win but +/- important as always.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    JohnLilburne said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    watford30 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    FPT & OT:

    As Chinese companies are invited to get involved with British high-speed rail projects, British railway companies win contracts on American high-speed rail projects.

    http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/28/brits-move-to-california/

    Network Rail? They can't even get the existing lines into Waterloo running properly.

    The Yanks are dooooooomed.
    Upper deck of the re-vamped Birmingham New Street station opened today - "Grand Central" shopping centre. Unfortunately, the down escalators onto the concourse level weren't working!
    I bet the platform level is still a dungeon.
    Rumour has it they like it that way.....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092
    SandyRentool said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    FPT & OT:

    As Chinese companies are invited to get involved with British high-speed rail projects, British railway companies win contracts on American high-speed rail projects.

    http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/28/brits-move-to-california/

    That's a Canadian company and a US company!
    "Network Rail Consulting, the international consultancy arm of Network Rail, has been selected as part Parsons Brinckerhoff’s consultant team."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    edited September 2015
    I find the 'lots of personality' one interesting - unlike some previous fiery left wingers, Corbyn was deliberately not very fiery in his campaign, being staid and measured all the way, and it wasn't until his victory speech that he seemed to really get passionate and show some personality, so people may not really have a sense of that part of him yet, hence why he and Cameron (Cameron the Bland, as some might thignk of him) are tied on how much personality they have.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,113
    Corbyn's ratings are poor, but electing Ed Miliband was a stroke of luck as Corbyn's tenure only lasted a month back in 2010.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    LadyBucket said:

    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.

    It may be that the Mail printed lots of extra copies in expectation of a sales surge on the back of this serialisation.
    I used to work in a newsagents when younger and it was quite common then.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    edited September 2015
    CarlottaVance said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This poll also tells you swinehead revisited doesn't matter.

    WHAT???!!!!

    You mean this poll was fielded after Cameron's reputation was 'destroyed', rendered the 'laughing stock of Europe' and if he didn't sue 'would be proof of guilt'?

    I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!
    I was polled for this before pig-gate. (Sunday afternoon I think)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,113
    Off topic:

    Saw a sign at the local Tesco today for some Eid prayers that took place this morning in the car park there !
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    This poll also tells you swinehead revisited doesn't matter.

    WHAT???!!!!

    You mean this poll was fielded after Cameron's reputation was 'destroyed', rendered the 'laughing stock of Europe' and if he didn't sue 'would be proof of guilt'?

    I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!
    I'm shocked Dave is still PM. I mean Coulson, Pastygate, Going to Morrisons, Chickening out of the debates were all career enders
    You forgot 'riding a horse' and 'leaving a kid in a pub'.......
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,931
    JohnLilburne said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    watford30 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    FPT & OT:

    As Chinese companies are invited to get involved with British high-speed rail projects, British railway companies win contracts on American high-speed rail projects.

    http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/28/brits-move-to-california/

    Network Rail? They can't even get the existing lines into Waterloo running properly.

    The Yanks are dooooooomed.
    Upper deck of the re-vamped Birmingham New Street station opened today - "Grand Central" shopping centre. Unfortunately, the down escalators onto the concourse level weren't working!
    I bet the platform level is still a dungeon.
    It's brighter than what it was!
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    isam said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Those patriotic figures are a killer.

    The country will never elect someone they consider unpatriotic

    "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Dr Johnson
    Indeed and why do you think the Tories used it on Ed during the election ?

    It works.
    Hope they use it on Sadiq then... although saying that it could work against them in London
    It might not work in inner London so much but the outer boroughs could swing it for Zac rather like they've done for Boris.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Article title needs fixing. Missing a 'first'. Like this thread, for a change.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092
    JohnLilburne said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    watford30 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    FPT & OT:

    As Chinese companies are invited to get involved with British high-speed rail projects, British railway companies win contracts on American high-speed rail projects.

    http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/28/brits-move-to-california/

    Network Rail? They can't even get the existing lines into Waterloo running properly.

    The Yanks are dooooooomed.
    Upper deck of the re-vamped Birmingham New Street station opened today - "Grand Central" shopping centre. Unfortunately, the down escalators onto the concourse level weren't working!
    I bet the platform level is still a dungeon.
    Yep, and one that apparently significantly hampers service patterns because they cannot expand.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    This may be Corbyn's honeymoon period, but I cannot discount the possibility he will break the mould a little - he was not expected to have a chance in winning after all - and thus he starts so poorly on thi sranking that he in fact improves with time
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    edited September 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic:

    Saw a sign at the local Tesco today for some Eid prayers that took place this morning in the car park there !

    Which Tesco was that ?

    The Spittal Hill one?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Good to have some data. Turns out that new govt still in its honeymoon and that Corbyn is a controversial choice.

    Who'davthunkit?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Perhaps voters like Jeremy Corbyn's honesty because, when they vote against him, it will be abundantly clear what they are rejecting.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,113
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic:

    Saw a sign at the local Tesco today for some Eid prayers that took place this morning in the car park there !

    Which Tesco was that ?
    Spital Hill
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    Jonathan said:

    Good to have some data. Turns out that new govt still in its honeymoon and that Corbyn is a controversial choice.

    Who'davthunkit?

    It's not really a new government though is it...
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I wonder what % we're catching. 10%?
    Moment police opened lorry at M40 services to find group of FOURTEEN illegal immigrants, including children, hiding in the back

    Police respond to banging from inside lorry at Gaydon Service Station
    Officers discover 14 people, including children, inside parked truck
    Understood lorry had travelled through Spain before coming to UK
    Warwickshire Police force investigating discovery earlier this week

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3247377/Moment-police-opened-lorry-M40-services-group-FOURTEEN-illegal-immigrants-including-children-hiding-back.html#ixzz3mf0GARVX
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,386
    JosiasJessop said:

    SandyRentool said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    FPT & OT:

    As Chinese companies are invited to get involved with British high-speed rail projects, British railway companies win contracts on American high-speed rail projects.

    http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/28/brits-move-to-california/

    That's a Canadian company and a US company!
    "Network Rail Consulting, the international consultancy arm of Network Rail, has been selected as part Parsons Brinckerhoff’s consultant team."
    A UK subby to a Canadian company then :-)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    watford30 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    FPT & OT:

    As Chinese companies are invited to get involved with British high-speed rail projects, British railway companies win contracts on American high-speed rail projects.

    http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/28/brits-move-to-california/

    Network Rail? They can't even get the existing lines into Waterloo running properly.

    The Yanks are dooooooomed.
    Upper deck of the re-vamped Birmingham New Street station opened today - "Grand Central" shopping centre. Unfortunately, the down escalators onto the concourse level weren't working!
    I bet the platform level is still a dungeon.
    It's brighter than what it was!
    In fairness (a user of New Street since the early '70s) they were dealt a very bad hand - but compared to that other sixties disaster Penn Stn they are light years ahead.....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    Pulpstar said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic:

    Saw a sign at the local Tesco today for some Eid prayers that took place this morning in the car park there !

    Which Tesco was that ?
    Spital Hill
    Thought so. I'll be there later on this evening
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Slackbladder said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good to have some data. Turns out that new govt still in its honeymoon and that Corbyn is a controversial choice.

    Who'davthunkit?

    It's not really a new government though is it...
    That's not what the government says though. First Tory govt for 400 years! Big changes afoot!
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    madasafish said:

    Plato_Says said:

    It was wall to wall in the Mail online for 3 days - I felt it was complete overkill for not much content. It put me off visiting their site as it shoved more entertaining bread/butter stuff out.

    LadyBucket said:

    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.

    You forgot to add: the conference may back mandatory re-selection of MPs..

    At that point, I suspect the real fun will start.

    "Those whom the gods will destroy, they first make mad"...seems apposite.

    And also there's Trident and ending the benefit cap. Perfect storm which in any normal party would be enough for a swift rethink and removal.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It will surprise no one to discover that the standard Corbynite reaction has been to blame the wickedness of the media.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    In this clip from PMQs in June, who's the chap in the dogcollar sitting behind Angus Robertson? https://www.facebook.com/bbcnews/videos/10152853358117217/ Thanks
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @NCPoliticsUK: Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard:

    CON 39 (+2)
    LAB 34 (+3)
    LIB 8 (-2)
    UKIP 7 (-2)
    GRN 4 (-4)
    SNP 5 (=)

    19th-22nd
    N=1,255
    https://t.co/hmMOCPJQW5
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    edited September 2015
    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard:

    CON 39 (+2)
    LAB 34 (+3)
    LIB 8 (-2)
    UKIP 7 (-2)
    GRN 4 (-4)
    SNP 5 (=)

    19th-22nd
    N=1,255
    https://t.co/hmMOCPJQW5

    Some before, some after pig-gate then.

    Changes against?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    edited September 2015
    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard:

    CON 39 (+2)
    LAB 34 (+3)
    LIB 8 (-2)
    UKIP 7 (-2)
    GRN 4 (-4)
    SNP 5 (=)

    19th-22nd
    N=1,255
    https://t.co/hmMOCPJQW5

    Labour hoovering up the Green vote, which will get them no where at all.

    Edit: The values still look wrong compared with the GE, Lib dems higher than UKIP?

    Greens way too high especially before, and still now.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Greenies migrating to Labour - no surprises there.
    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard:

    CON 39 (+2)
    LAB 34 (+3)
    LIB 8 (-2)
    UKIP 7 (-2)
    GRN 4 (-4)
    SNP 5 (=)

    19th-22nd
    N=1,255
    https://t.co/hmMOCPJQW5

  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    felix said:

    madasafish said:

    Plato_Says said:

    It was wall to wall in the Mail online for 3 days - I felt it was complete overkill for not much content. It put me off visiting their site as it shoved more entertaining bread/butter stuff out.

    LadyBucket said:

    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.

    You forgot to add: the conference may back mandatory re-selection of MPs..

    At that point, I suspect the real fun will start.

    "Those whom the gods will destroy, they first make mad"...seems apposite.

    And also there's Trident and ending the benefit cap. Perfect storm which in any normal party would be enough for a swift rethink and removal.

    Other "normal" parties have elected IDS - and then fired him ... and Farage - who resigned - and then resurrected himself...

    So such behaviour is far from uncommon...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    Fieldwork for this poll was Saturday to Tuesday. So about half to a third of it would have been post Swinehead Revisted
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,389
    The divided stat is the one that stands out for me. Up 32% points! Almost doubled in fact. And this is before the Conference.

    Labour have made a truly terrible mistake. How do they get out of it?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    madasafish said:

    felix said:

    madasafish said:

    Plato_Says said:

    It was wall to wall in the Mail online for 3 days - I felt it was complete overkill for not much content. It put me off visiting their site as it shoved more entertaining bread/butter stuff out.

    LadyBucket said:

    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.

    You forgot to add: the conference may back mandatory re-selection of MPs..

    At that point, I suspect the real fun will start.

    "Those whom the gods will destroy, they first make mad"...seems apposite.

    And also there's Trident and ending the benefit cap. Perfect storm which in any normal party would be enough for a swift rethink and removal.

    Other "normal" parties have elected IDS - and then fired him ... and Farage - who resigned - and then resurrected himself...

    So such behaviour is far from uncommon...
    You miss the point - I don't think Labour will get rid. They'll be bolstered by the Mori voter intention poll. They'd be wrong - but there you are.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    I am assuming this has done the rounds,

    well if not, this is much nearer to my experience of that side of things

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/2015/09/23/nick-richardson/short-cuts
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It's perfect for Tories - Labour hug a poll bounce to their chests, think the bad numbers don't matter and stick with Corbyn - marvellous.
    felix said:

    madasafish said:

    felix said:

    madasafish said:

    Plato_Says said:

    It was wall to wall in the Mail online for 3 days - I felt it was complete overkill for not much content. It put me off visiting their site as it shoved more entertaining bread/butter stuff out.

    LadyBucket said:

    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.

    You forgot to add: the conference may back mandatory re-selection of MPs..

    At that point, I suspect the real fun will start.

    "Those whom the gods will destroy, they first make mad"...seems apposite.

    And also there's Trident and ending the benefit cap. Perfect storm which in any normal party would be enough for a swift rethink and removal.

    Other "normal" parties have elected IDS - and then fired him ... and Farage - who resigned - and then resurrected himself...

    So such behaviour is far from uncommon...
    You miss the point - I don't think Labour will get rid. They'll be bolstered by the Mori voter intention poll. They'd be wrong - but there you are.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,196
    Is 'out-of-touch' just people's code for 'too posh' ?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    felix said:

    madasafish said:

    felix said:

    madasafish said:

    Plato_Says said:

    It was wall to wall in the Mail online for 3 days - I felt it was complete overkill for not much content. It put me off visiting their site as it shoved more entertaining bread/butter stuff out.

    LadyBucket said:

    Sorry missed the previous thread - I know it's not a scientific survey but there have lots of copies of the Daily Mail left on the shelves over the last few days. I think this tawdry book is going to sink without trace. I would love the know the number of cancelled orders for it. Ashcroft's tweet about the proceeds going to charity was a bit of a give away. Even his friend, Tim Montgomerie, thinks Ashcroft will be more damaged by this.

    Looks like the Labour Party Conference is going to knock everything else off the screens next week, given Corbyn's comments about welfare, HS2 and Trident. The polls are going to be more interesting 'after' the conference.

    You forgot to add: the conference may back mandatory re-selection of MPs..

    At that point, I suspect the real fun will start.

    "Those whom the gods will destroy, they first make mad"...seems apposite.

    And also there's Trident and ending the benefit cap. Perfect storm which in any normal party would be enough for a swift rethink and removal.

    Other "normal" parties have elected IDS - and then fired him ... and Farage - who resigned - and then resurrected himself...

    So such behaviour is far from uncommon...
    You miss the point - I don't think Labour will get rid. They'll be bolstered by the Mori voter intention poll. They'd be wrong - but there you are.
    I think that for the time being, the supplementaries are more usful than the mainline polls.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard:

    CON 39 (+2)
    LAB 34 (+3)
    LIB 8 (-2)
    UKIP 7 (-2)
    GRN 4 (-4)
    SNP 5 (=)

    19th-22nd
    N=1,255
    https://t.co/hmMOCPJQW5

    I have this theory that Corbyn will cause a Kipper to Con boost.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    TBH not sure how much you can read into these numbers at this stage - a group (Kinnock, Blair, Brown, Miliband) all cluster around upper teens and while one was a spectacular success, the others were not. That said, more evidence of the mountain to be climbed by Corbyn.....
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Slackbladder said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard:

    CON 39 (+2)
    LAB 34 (+3)
    LIB 8 (-2)
    UKIP 7 (-2)
    GRN 4 (-4)
    SNP 5 (=)

    19th-22nd
    N=1,255
    https://t.co/hmMOCPJQW5

    Labour hoovering up the Green vote, which will get them no where at all.

    Edit: The values still look wrong compared with the GE, Lib dems higher than UKIP?

    Greens way too high especially before, and still now.
    The biggest problem with the poll and indeed most others, as shown in May - is they appear unable to account for non-voters/unregistered voters and also where the voters are. Labour getting ever more inner-city votes didn't help them much in May.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    edited September 2015
    Casino_Royale said:

    Is 'out-of-touch' just people's code for 'too posh' ?

    Yes I think that's what the Plebs mean. But they don't mind electing as their Tribune of the Plebs a posh boy Aristo
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,414
    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard:

    CON 39 (+2)
    LAB 34 (+3)
    LIB 8 (-2)
    UKIP 7 (-2)
    GRN 4 (-4)
    SNP 5 (=)

    19th-22nd
    N=1,255
    https://t.co/hmMOCPJQW5

    Those numbers look a bit out of whack to me due to the fact that the Greens have lost half their votes and are still on their GE score. Effectively if you add together Lab+LD+Green then this combined total is 4% higher than the GE. I also don't buy that UKIP has lost nearly half its vote while the migrant crisis is in the news every day.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    Doesn't matter what right wing people think of Corbyn as long as enough people vote for labour. And the polls are creeping up already, despite the turnout adjustments,
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,313
    Dadge said:

    In this clip from PMQs in June, who's the chap in the dogcollar sitting behind Angus Robertson? https://www.facebook.com/bbcnews/videos/10152853358117217/ Thanks

    That's a Commons official....probably one of the Sargeant at Arms staff. He's not an MP.
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