Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Cameron versus Corbyn – the first Ipsos MORI comparison sin

1356

Comments

  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    MP_SE said:

    Truly shocking stuff if any of the following turns out to be true:

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/24/exclusive-claims-about-ex-tory-candidate-mark-clarke-embroiled-in-suicide-bullying-allegations/

    Is this sort of behaviour common among the more active elements of the Tories?

    Mark Clarke has not proved to be popular.
    Sean_F said:

    MP_SE said:

    Truly shocking stuff if any of the following turns out to be true:

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/24/exclusive-claims-about-ex-tory-candidate-mark-clarke-embroiled-in-suicide-bullying-allegations/

    Is this sort of behaviour common among the more active elements of the Tories?

    Mark Clarke has not proved to be popular.
    Sean_F said:

    MP_SE said:

    Truly shocking stuff if any of the following turns out to be true:

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/24/exclusive-claims-about-ex-tory-candidate-mark-clarke-embroiled-in-suicide-bullying-allegations/

    Is this sort of behaviour common among the more active elements of the Tories?

    Mark Clarke has not proved to be popular.
    I met him once but never had any direct dealings with him. At the time he was known for being a bit of a ladies man.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1068756/Future-Tatler-Tory-candidate-doubt-party-expresses-grave-concerns-fit-MP.html

    There were (and prob still are) several unpleasant people in CWF when I was a very young activist who I did have dealings with who I wouldn't care to ever meet again.
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    MP_SE said:

    Truly shocking stuff if any of the following turns out to be true:

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/24/exclusive-claims-about-ex-tory-candidate-mark-clarke-embroiled-in-suicide-bullying-allegations/

    Is this sort of behaviour common among the more active elements of the Tories?

    Answer: no. They learn the bad stuff from kippers.

  • Options
    Whoever would have thought the British public would react in this way to Labour making an anti-capitalist, terrorist apologist, class warrior its leader? This is a huge surprise.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,536

    Calling all reactionaries.

    BBC R4 has just broadcast Hilary Mantel's 'The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher'. You don't even have to listen to it, the very fact that it exists and the BBC has broadcast it will give that warm, familiar feeling of outrage!

    For balance, we look forward to their "The Assassination of Alex Salmond"..... I'm sure all SNP voters would be tuning in.
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    JEO said:

    Migrants in Sweden facing disillusionment:

    http://www.voanews.com/content/migrants-find-disappointment-frustration-in-sweden/2973768.html

    Here's an interview with one Syrian migrant, who is upset because his housing is a full 30 minutes away from a supermarket:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHNh-d9INiI

    Of course, when many Dutch Somalis found the Netherlands was not the land of opportunity they hoped for, they waited until they got passports and moved to London. It was a similar case for the mother of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who moved to the UK for the "more Islamic environment".

    The Dutch Somalis were rumoured to have had benefit fraud allegations. Many families moved to Bristol. Is it still correct that 80% are unemployed?

  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Whoever would have thought the British public would react in this way to Labour making an anti-capitalist, terrorist apologist, class warrior its leader? This is a huge surprise.

    SO, so pessimistic. Wait until the public discover that he's "authentic" - the "craft ale" of the Labour movement. Then it'll all change.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,536

    Blimey, the Hajj pilgrimage stampede death toll has reached 717 a further 863 people injured.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34346449

    They’re not having much luck this year what with this and the crane that collapsed.

    Not having much luck...or else God is sending them a missive of his disquiet.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,133

    Whoever would have thought the British public would react in this way to Labour making an anti-capitalist, terrorist apologist, class warrior its leader? This is a huge surprise.

    All very well complaining but you have to ask why the traditional centre left has folded and it's not unique to this country.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,536

    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard:

    Even Foot didn't receive the barrage of hostility Corbyn has received. I am sure the Mirror and the Guardian were on Foot's side.
    Perhaps the barrage of hostility and words of warnings heaped on Corbyn by a former Labour leader, several Labour MPs, Labour Grandees and Labour leaning journalists was also a contributing factor?
    You have to offset those criticisms Jezbollah has received with the praise he's received from Gerry Adams, Argentina and Hamas.

    Oh...
    It is still puzzling...why is the Labour support slowly going up ?
    And with other pollsters the Tories are going up by even more.

    Trust me in marginals like Warrington South the Tories will be reminding the voters that Corbyn is the Sinn Fein endorsed leader and his past comments on the IRA.
    I don't know if you saw that very interesting report I linked to from Lewis Baston yesterday.

    Which is a long-winded way of saying that Corbyn will go down badly in marginal.
    All in play. All really having to win the vote. All representing a true slice of urban and suburban issues....
    Terrible idea.

    That's the classic way town/city seats are gerrymandered into the blue column under FPTP. Draw a thin pizza slice protruding into the countryside to rope in just enough Tory voters from safe rural areas to outvote those who live in the city.
    I specifically said a dozen marginals, all in play.

    Interesting that you want to keep Labour's little inner-city fiefdoms. How well does that work out for their occupants?
    It would make GEs less predictable and magnify swing effects in terms of seats.

    Could be interesting. You've mainly got me thinking about what toppings I'd want on my Birmingham pizza though.
    Balti pizza. It's a multi-culti thing, innit?
  • Options

    Blimey, the Hajj pilgrimage stampede death toll has reached 717 a further 863 people injured.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34346449

    They’re not having much luck this year what with this and the crane that collapsed.

    Not having much luck...or else God is sending them a missive of his disquiet.
    These things come in threes - TSE had better behave himself tonight...
  • Options

    Calling all reactionaries.

    BBC R4 has just broadcast Hilary Mantel's 'The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher'. You don't even have to listen to it, the very fact that it exists and the BBC has broadcast it will give that warm, familiar feeling of outrage!

    For balance, we look forward to their "The Assassination of Alex Salmond"..... I'm sure all SNP voters would be tuning in.
    That would not be comparable, though. There was a very nearly successful attempt to murder Margaret Thatcher and many of her colleagues, and some of those whose lives have been forever blighted are still alive and suffering from it. It is tasteless beyond belief to make entertainment from it.

    Still, after seeing Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell take up the two most senior opposition positions, I suppose we shouldn't be surprised by anything.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    perdix said:

    JEO said:

    Migrants in Sweden facing disillusionment:

    http://www.voanews.com/content/migrants-find-disappointment-frustration-in-sweden/2973768.html

    Here's an interview with one Syrian migrant, who is upset because his housing is a full 30 minutes away from a supermarket:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHNh-d9INiI

    Of course, when many Dutch Somalis found the Netherlands was not the land of opportunity they hoped for, they waited until they got passports and moved to London. It was a similar case for the mother of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who moved to the UK for the "more Islamic environment".

    The Dutch Somalis were rumoured to have had benefit fraud allegations. Many families moved to Bristol. Is it still correct that 80% are unemployed?

    He's travelled all the way from Syria and is now complaining at a 30 minute trip to the supermarket. Amazing!

  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    Reading that table is like watching a Final Destination film - you can see all the elements of catastrophe in place, ready to batter the protagonist in a grisly way, even while he remains blissfully unaware of the fate that awaits him. It induces a cringe of anticipation as what is to come is made clear. The simple facts are well beyond any margin of error – the hard left, readers will be shocked to learn, is disastrously out of step even with the wider electorate and even existing and potential Labour voters.

    For the Corbynites, as for the ill-fated film characters, of course, these fears are nonsense and those who raise them are to be dismissed. No doubt YouGov, the New Statesman, Peter Kellner and the 10,000 people polled will now be added to the list of typical-Tory-bourgeois-capitalist-Murdoch-military-industrial-neocon-lizards who are deceiving everyone to try to stop the glorious revolution.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,397

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard:

    CON 39 (+2)
    LAB 34 (+3)
    LIB 8 (-2)
    UKIP 7 (-2)
    GRN 4 (-4)
    SNP 5 (=)

    19th-22nd
    N=1,255
    https://t.co/hmMOCPJQW5

    I have this theory that Corbyn will cause a Kipper to Con boost.
    It looks like left-right polarisation to me.
    Seems logical, doesn't it? Corbyn's ratings are reasonable given the media barrage - people slightly prefer him to latter-day EdM and see him as far more in touch than Cameron, and 47% for "clear vision" isn't bad after a couple of weeks in the job. Self-effacing as he is, he'll be slightly surprised that 41% think he's got lots of personality.

    Concur with your remark that people move where they're happy - I used to live in upper High Wycombe surrounded by bankers and hunters, and fled to Holloway. When kids are being naughty here we tell them about Tory voters, but they don't really believe they exist.
  • Options
    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,084
    edited September 2015

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard:

    CON 39 (+2)
    LAB 34 (+3)
    LIB 8 (-2)
    UKIP 7 (-2)
    GRN 4 (-4)
    SNP 5 (=)

    19th-22nd
    N=1,255
    https://t.co/hmMOCPJQW5

    I have this theory that Corbyn will cause a Kipper to Con boost.
    It looks like left-right polarisation to me.
    Seems logical, doesn't it? Corbyn's ratings are reasonable given the media barrage - people slightly prefer him to latter-day EdM and see him as far more in touch than Cameron, and 47% for "clear vision" isn't bad after a couple of weeks in the job. Self-effacing as he is, he'll be slightly surprised that 41% think he's got lots of personality.

    Concur with your remark that people move where they're happy - I used to live in upper High Wycombe surrounded by bankers and hunters, and fled to Holloway. When kids are being naughty here we tell them about Tory voters, but they don't really believe they exist.
    The net leader ratings are firstly a measure of support within Labour voters. They should be solidly behind you when you are first elected.

    >> Corbyn clearly can't today.

    An alternative to a good score is to have some reach outside your party.

    >> Corbyn clearly doesn't yet have the ability to fish in the Tory or Lib Dem pool.

    The only thing surprising about these figures is that people are surprised about these figures.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,156
    edited September 2015


    Corbyn's ratings are reasonable given the media barrage - people slightly prefer him to latter-day EdM and see him as far more in touch than Cameron, and 47% for "clear vision" isn't bad after a couple of weeks in the job. Self-effacing as he is, he'll be slightly surprised that 41% think he's got lots of personality.

    Nick, that's more spinning than my washing machine does on the Corbyn cycle. The ratings are appalling.

    Sub Foot.

    And Cameron hasn't exactly had the best publicity in the last few days either.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,122
    Ha!!!!!!!

    They've actually managed to find a leader MORE unelectable than Michael Foot.
  • Options
    Interview with Vanessa Redgrave in the Evening Standard this evening. She describes the election of Corbyn as the "English Spring".
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,084
    Alas, it does seem that VW aren't the only ones fitting "defeat devices" to their products.
  • Options

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.


    Fun With Straw Clutching.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,156

    Interview with Vanessa Redgrave in the Evening Standard this evening. She describes the election of Corbyn as the "English Spring".

    Luvvie winter more like, at least for another decade.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
  • Options

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.


    Fun With Straw Clutching.

    I don't see how I'm straw clutching. Explain please.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210
    edited September 2015

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
  • Options

    Scott_P said:

    @NCPoliticsUK: Ipsos MORI/Evening Standard:

    CON 39 (+2)
    LAB 34 (+3)
    LIB 8 (-2)
    UKIP 7 (-2)
    GRN 4 (-4)
    SNP 5 (=)

    19th-22nd
    N=1,255
    https://t.co/hmMOCPJQW5

    I have this theory that Corbyn will cause a Kipper to Con boost.
    It looks like left-right polarisation to me.
    Seems logical, doesn't it? Corbyn's ratings are reasonable given the media barrage - people slightly prefer him to latter-day EdM and see him as far more in touch than Cameron, and 47% for "clear vision" isn't bad after a couple of weeks in the job. Self-effacing as he is, he'll be slightly surprised that 41% think he's got lots of personality.

    Concur with your remark that people move where they're happy - I used to live in upper High Wycombe surrounded by bankers and hunters, and fled to Holloway. When kids are being naughty here we tell them about Tory voters, but they don't really believe they exist.
    That explains a lot.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,536
    GIN1138 said:

    Ha!!!!!!!

    They've actually managed to find a leader MORE unelectable than Michael Foot.

    Foot - minus five.

    I guess that means Corbyn has no toes? This little piggy will NOT be going to market....
  • Options
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
    Yes and as I said before it doesn't tell us the amount of DKs or figures for the reverse question.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:


    Corbyn's ratings are reasonable given the media barrage - people slightly prefer him to latter-day EdM and see him as far more in touch than Cameron, and 47% for "clear vision" isn't bad after a couple of weeks in the job. Self-effacing as he is, he'll be slightly surprised that 41% think he's got lots of personality.

    Nick, that's more spinning than my washing machine does on the Corbyn cycle. The ratings are appalling.

    Sub Foot.

    And Cameron hasn't exactly had the best publicity in the last few days either.
    I think Nick is trying to convince himself as much as anyone else.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,536

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    Not really. If Osborne isn't streets ahead of Corbyn - then we'll elect someone else who will be.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2015
    I love this excuse that Corbyn's dismal ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,536

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
    Yes and as I said before it doesn't tell us the amount of DKs or figures for the reverse question.
    Labour's night must be very dark. There is a lot of whistling going on....

    Won't keep the monsters away though.
  • Options

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    Not really. If Osborne isn't streets ahead of Corbyn - then we'll elect someone else who will be.
    I don't agree. There is no one who really rivals Osborne in terms of networking and having a base within the party, and his biggest rival and arguably someone who would definitely beat Corbyh - Boris - is looking less and less likely to win the Tory leadership as time goes on.
  • Options
    Good evening, comrades.

    Worth a note of caution. Polling can, just occasionally, be wrong.

    That said, it's bloody dire for the Chairman. I'm not sure the Vindictive Vegan's policy on open warfare with meat-eaters will help, though.
  • Options

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    I don't think they are the only cause, but they certainly part of it. The other part is as I said previously Corbyn is quite a divisive figure looking at his views on everything from the monarchy to immigration. Then again I forgot that the press aren't to be factored in as an influence when they do things Tories approve of...
  • Options

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
    Yes and as I said before it doesn't tell us the amount of DKs or figures for the reverse question.
    Labour's night must be very dark. There is a lot of whistling going on....

    Won't keep the monsters away though.
    ? Tell that to someone dead set on voting Labour. I probably won't even vote Labour under Corbyn, I just simply share a different view re his impact on Labours electoral prospects if he's still there by 2020.
  • Options

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    Cognitive dissonance – tis all the media’s fault and nothing to do with 30 years of baggage.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,536

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    Not really. If Osborne isn't streets ahead of Corbyn - then we'll elect someone else who will be.
    I don't agree. There is no one who really rivals Osborne in terms of networking and having a base within the party, and his biggest rival and arguably someone who would definitely beat Corbyh - Boris - is looking less and less likely to win the Tory leadership as time goes on.
    With due respect, you don't know much about the workings of the Tory party. We will pick somebody who will gt the job done.... There's plenty of talent to choose from.

    And I am one of the selectorate...
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
    Yes and as I said before it doesn't tell us the amount of DKs or figures for the reverse question.
    Will that change the fact that less than half your own supporters don't think he'd be good. Hard to imagine Corbyn changing his ways significantly enough to shift these figures. Of course, if the great purge goes ahead, then it's anyone's guess.
  • Options

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    I don't think they are the only cause, but they certainly part of it. The other part is as I said previously Corbyn is quite a divisive figure looking at his views on everything from the monarchy to immigration. Then again I forgot that the press aren't to be factored in as an influence when they do things Tories approve of...
    All that the press have done in relation to Jeremy Corbyn is to tell people about his views, which are very well-known in Westminster and indeed are no secret - it's not as though he tries to hide them. It's only a barrage of negative publicity in the sense that until recently most people knew nothing about him, but now they are beginning to do so. There's further to go on that, of course.
  • Options

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's dismal ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    At some point we'll get the catastrophe flip when the Corbynites stop blaming the press and decide that the problem is that Jeremy Corbyn was a wholly inadequate presenter of the right and proper views that he held.
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    I don't think they are the only cause, but they certainly part of it. The other part is as I said previously Corbyn is quite a divisive figure looking at his views on everything from the monarchy to immigration. Then again I forgot that the press aren't to be factored in as an influence when they do things Tories approve of...
    The European referendum poll from the other day asked people where they got their news from. The biggest source, by far, was BBC TV News, which 60%+ citing it as a source. All the newspaper together only got about 30%. Given the BBC so obviously leans to the left, I don't think the Labour Party has any grounds to complain about the media.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,536
    Great - Labour to ban the bacon butty. I know they it took it hard about Ed and THAT picture, but that is carrying a grudge....

    The Sun will have great fun telling White Van Man about Labour's latest wheeze. We'll get to recycle all those pork gags from about three days ago....
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,156

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    I don't think they are the only cause, but they certainly part of it. The other part is as I said previously Corbyn is quite a divisive figure looking at his views on everything from the monarchy to immigration. Then again I forgot that the press aren't to be factored in as an influence when they do things Tories approve of...

    It is like stormy weather on a fishing boat for Labour, it is there and a known factor. The predominant broadcast media (the BBC) is broadly seen as more sympathetic than the print media to the left, and the centre right doesn't get a free ride from the press either (Cameron revelations). Labour seems to have Twitter onside more than the Conservatives even for the new media, and Facebook just depends on one's personal friendslist - so will reflect the country as a whole in the round.

    But it'll all be a factor at the 2020 election, so Labour had better deal with it.
  • Options

    Calling all reactionaries.

    BBC R4 has just broadcast Hilary Mantel's 'The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher'. You don't even have to listen to it, the very fact that it exists and the BBC has broadcast it will give that warm, familiar feeling of outrage!

    For balance, we look forward to their "The Assassination of Alex Salmond"..... I'm sure all SNP voters would be tuning in.
    Go for it.
    I'm sure you can tear yourself away from the the big Holywood blockbuster you're doubtless gestating.
  • Options
    antifrank said:

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's dismal ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    At some point we'll get the catastrophe flip when the Corbynites stop blaming the press and decide that the problem is that Jeremy Corbyn was a wholly inadequate presenter of the right and proper views that he held.
    Or that the problem was that he back-tracked from his views and compromised his principles under pressure from the Red Tories in the Shadow Cabinet.

    In fact we'll probably get all three excuses simultaneously.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,156
    antifrank said:

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's dismal ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    At some point we'll get the catastrophe flip when the Corbynites stop blaming the press and decide that the problem is that Jeremy Corbyn was a wholly inadequate presenter of the right and proper views that he held.
    Some time in 2023 perhaps ?

    Or will the realisation hit after the exit polls close in 2020 ?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,126

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    I don't think they are the only cause, but they certainly part of it. The other part is as I said previously Corbyn is quite a divisive figure looking at his views on everything from the monarchy to immigration. Then again I forgot that the press aren't to be factored in as an influence when they do things Tories approve of...
    Lol - I guess you mean:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11887975/The-end-of-the-Labour-Party-might-be-closer-than-any-of-us-really-believed.html
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Corbyn has nothing to worry about - he will outlast VW
    antifrank said:

    At some point we'll get the catastrophe flip when the Corbynites stop blaming the press and decide that the problem is that Jeremy Corbyn was a wholly inadequate presenter of the right and proper views that he held.

    That will not happen until after Comrade Corbyn has been deposed and the lefties are busy expressing their undying loyalty to the new leader by rubbishing the previous one.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210
    On reflection, based on current polling,I can say we are.....

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=ROKXlvYMKQc
  • Options

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    Not really. If Osborne isn't streets ahead of Corbyn - then we'll elect someone else who will be.
    I don't agree. There is no one who really rivals Osborne in terms of networking and having a base within the party, and his biggest rival and arguably someone who would definitely beat Corbyh - Boris - is looking less and less likely to win the Tory leadership as time goes on.
    With due respect, you don't know much about the workings of the Tory party. We will pick somebody who will gt the job done.... There's plenty of talent to choose from.

    And I am one of the selectorate...
    I think I do on this subjects. The Tory party is also prone to electing duds as leaders. Politics in general is lacking 'talent' as in people who can improve Britain as opposed to further the aims of the Tory party. They aren't always the same thing....
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Corbyn has nothing to worry about - he will outlast VW

    antifrank said:

    At some point we'll get the catastrophe flip when the Corbynites stop blaming the press and decide that the problem is that Jeremy Corbyn was a wholly inadequate presenter of the right and proper views that he held.

    That will not happen until after Comrade Corbyn has been deposed and the lefties are busy expressing their undying loyalty to the new leader by rubbishing the previous one.
    That's not good. VW aren't going bust, any time soon.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
    Yes and as I said before it doesn't tell us the amount of DKs or figures for the reverse question.
    Will that change the fact that less than half your own supporters don't think he'd be good. Hard to imagine Corbyn changing his ways significantly enough to shift these figures. Of course, if the great purge goes ahead, then it's anyone's guess.
    I don't dispute that - but if it's a contest between terrible vs terrible then it makes it a contest of who is the least bad.
  • Options

    antifrank said:

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's dismal ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    At some point we'll get the catastrophe flip when the Corbynites stop blaming the press and decide that the problem is that Jeremy Corbyn was a wholly inadequate presenter of the right and proper views that he held.
    Or that the problem was that he back-tracked from his views and compromised his principles under pressure from the Red Tories in the Shadow Cabinet.

    In fact we'll probably get all three excuses simultaneously.
    You're quite right. I'm sure we'll hear "Corbynism wasn't tried and found wanting. It was never tried."
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Blimey, the Hajj pilgrimage stampede death toll has reached 717 a further 863 people injured.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34346449

    They’re not having much luck this year what with this and the crane that collapsed.

    Is it bad luck? There is plenty of previous.
  • Options
    Apocalypse......Come on... that is pure sixth form stuff
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,156

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    Not really. If Osborne isn't streets ahead of Corbyn - then we'll elect someone else who will be.
    I don't agree. There is no one who really rivals Osborne in terms of networking and having a base within the party, and his biggest rival and arguably someone who would definitely beat Corbyh - Boris - is looking less and less likely to win the Tory leadership as time goes on.
    With due respect, you don't know much about the workings of the Tory party. We will pick somebody who will gt the job done.... There's plenty of talent to choose from.

    And I am one of the selectorate...
    I think I do on this subjects. The Tory party is also prone to electing duds as leaders. Politics in general is lacking 'talent' as in people who can improve Britain as opposed to further the aims of the Tory party. They aren't always the same thing....
    The Conservatives have Osborne, Javid, Hammond, May - they might not be everyone's cup of tea but they'll all tonk Corbyn on the PM question.

    Only 43% of firm Labour voters thinking Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne is utterly shocking. 57% will be washing their hair in May 2020.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210
    edited September 2015

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
    Yes and as I said before it doesn't tell us the amount of DKs or figures for the reverse question.
    Will that change the fact that less than half your own supporters don't think he'd be good. Hard to imagine Corbyn changing his ways significantly enough to shift these figures. Of course, if the great purge goes ahead, then it's anyone's guess.
    I don't dispute that - but if it's a contest between terrible vs terrible then it makes it a contest of who is the least bad.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/22/how-did-george-osborne-failure-become-peoples-favourite

    Net approval +19. Not exactly terrible for our heir-to-a-baronetcy.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Interview with Vanessa Redgrave in the Evening Standard this evening. She describes the election of Corbyn as the "English Spring".

    You've just made that up
  • Options

    Blimey, the Hajj pilgrimage stampede death toll has reached 717 a further 863 people injured.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34346449

    They’re not having much luck this year what with this and the crane that collapsed.

    Is it bad luck? There is plenty of previous.
    There must be massive logistical problems in managing a couple of million people who all want to get to one small area in a very limited timeframe.
  • Options
    I don't know why there has been such an overreaction to my mentioning of the press as a factor. I'm not a Corbynite, nor am I blaming the press, nor due I suffer from cognitive dissonance.

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    I don't think they are the only cause, but they certainly part of it. The other part is as I said previously Corbyn is quite a divisive figure looking at his views on everything from the monarchy to immigration. Then again I forgot that the press aren't to be factored in as an influence when they do things Tories approve of...
    All that the press have done in relation to Jeremy Corbyn is to tell people about his views, which are very well-known in Westminster and indeed are no secret - it's not as though he tries to hide them. It's only a barrage of negative publicity in the sense that until recently most people knew nothing about him, but now they are beginning to do so. There's further to go on that, of course.
    Not really - certain headlines deliberately depict Corbyh negatively - it's hardly a neutral expression of Corbyn's views. And that story about Corbyn giving an IRA bloke £45 seems to be on thin ground.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    I don't think they are the only cause, but they certainly part of it. The other part is as I said previously Corbyn is quite a divisive figure looking at his views on everything from the monarchy to immigration. Then again I forgot that the press aren't to be factored in as an influence when they do things Tories approve of...

    It is like stormy weather on a fishing boat for Labour, it is there and a known factor. The predominant broadcast media (the BBC) is broadly seen as more sympathetic than the print media to the left, and the centre right doesn't get a free ride from the press either (Cameron revelations). Labour seems to have Twitter onside more than the Conservatives even for the new media, and Facebook just depends on one's personal friendslist - so will reflect the country as a whole in the round.

    But it'll all be a factor at the 2020 election, so Labour had better deal with it.
    I overall agree although tbh I don't think Twitter really matters.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    Not really. If Osborne isn't streets ahead of Corbyn - then we'll elect someone else who will be.
    Tony Blackburn?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    Not really. If Osborne isn't streets ahead of Corbyn - then we'll elect someone else who will be.
    Tony Blackburn?
    Jacob Rees-Mogg. A true Man of the People.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    I don't think they are the only cause, but they certainly part of it. The other part is as I said previously Corbyn is quite a divisive figure looking at his views on everything from the monarchy to immigration. Then again I forgot that the press aren't to be factored in as an influence when they do things Tories approve of...
    quite?
  • Options
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
    Yes and as I said before it doesn't tell us the amount of DKs or figures for the reverse question.
    Will that change the fact that less than half your own supporters don't think he'd be good. Hard to imagine Corbyn changing his ways significantly enough to shift these figures. Of course, if the great purge goes ahead, then it's anyone's guess.
    I don't dispute that - but if it's a contest between terrible vs terrible then it makes it a contest of who is the least bad.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/22/how-did-george-osborne-failure-become-peoples-favourite

    Net approval +19. Not exactly terrible for our heir-to-a-baronetcy.
    That's on his role as chancellor though, not as a potential PM.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    The Conservatives have Osborne, Javid, Hammond, May - they might not be everyone's cup of tea but they'll all tonk Corbyn on the PM question.

    Plus a decent reserve team (Jeremy Hunt etc). Of course there's Boris as well, but I think he's unlikely.

    There's also one name which never gets mentioned and as far as I know is not offered by any bookie, but should be. And I'm not talking about some obscure backbencher, either.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    watford30 said:

    Corbyn has nothing to worry about - he will outlast VW

    antifrank said:

    At some point we'll get the catastrophe flip when the Corbynites stop blaming the press and decide that the problem is that Jeremy Corbyn was a wholly inadequate presenter of the right and proper views that he held.

    That will not happen until after Comrade Corbyn has been deposed and the lefties are busy expressing their undying loyalty to the new leader by rubbishing the previous one.
    That's not good. VW aren't going bust, any time soon.
    Listening to the lawyer bonanza that seems to be starting up, I have my doubts.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
    Yes and as I said before it doesn't tell us the amount of DKs or figures for the reverse question.
    Will that change the fact that less than half your own supporters don't think he'd be good. Hard to imagine Corbyn changing his ways significantly enough to shift these figures. Of course, if the great purge goes ahead, then it's anyone's guess.
    I don't dispute that - but if it's a contest between terrible vs terrible then it makes it a contest of who is the least bad.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/22/how-did-george-osborne-failure-become-peoples-favourite

    Net approval +19. Not exactly terrible for our heir-to-a-baronetcy.
    That's on his role as chancellor though, not as a potential PM.
    Shame you can't say that about the poll showing less than half your supporters think Corbyn would be a good PM. :D
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Apocalypse......Come on... that is pure sixth form stuff

    She's moved on from the sixth form
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    Not really. If Osborne isn't streets ahead of Corbyn - then we'll elect someone else who will be.
    I don't agree. There is no one who really rivals Osborne in terms of networking and having a base within the party, and his biggest rival and arguably someone who would definitely beat Corbyh - Boris - is looking less and less likely to win the Tory leadership as time goes on.
    With due respect, you don't know much about the workings of the Tory party. We will pick somebody who will gt the job done.... There's plenty of talent to choose from.

    And I am one of the selectorate...
    I think I do on this subjects. The Tory party is also prone to electing duds as leaders. Politics in general is lacking 'talent' as in people who can improve Britain as opposed to further the aims of the Tory party. They aren't always the same thing....
    The Conservatives have Osborne, Javid, Hammond, May - they might not be everyone's cup of tea but they'll all tonk Corbyn on the PM question.

    Only 43% of firm Labour voters thinking Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne is utterly shocking. 57% will be washing their hair in May 2020.
    Osborne certainly isn't tonking Corbyn on the PM question atm http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/09/19/comres-poll-finds-corbyn-with-near-identical-ratings-as-osborne/ All the others would (well Hammond is a bit of a walk in the dark). Given how great Osborne is supposed to be and the lack of negative press he's gotten those MORI ratings are quite shocking tbh.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Blimey, the Hajj pilgrimage stampede death toll has reached 717 a further 863 people injured.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34346449

    They’re not having much luck this year what with this and the crane that collapsed.

    Is it bad luck? There is plenty of previous.
    There must be massive logistical problems in managing a couple of million people who all want to get to one small area in a very limited timeframe.
    We'd get them queueing or buying tickets in advance
  • Options

    Interview with Vanessa Redgrave in the Evening Standard this evening. She describes the election of Corbyn as the "English Spring".

    You've just made that up
    Um. No, I haven't. Pick up a copy of the Evening Standard or read this:

    "All the same, she calls the advent of new Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn the “English Spring”.

    “It’s the English version and it’s greatly to be welcomed."

    http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/vanessa-redgrave-before-i-didn-t-care-at-all-now-i-find-myself-thinking-what-a-miracle-everything-is-a2954866.html

    I will accept your apology now.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,536

    Calling all reactionaries.

    BBC R4 has just broadcast Hilary Mantel's 'The Assassination of Margaret Thatcher'. You don't even have to listen to it, the very fact that it exists and the BBC has broadcast it will give that warm, familiar feeling of outrage!

    For balance, we look forward to their "The Assassination of Alex Salmond"..... I'm sure all SNP voters would be tuning in.
    Go for it.
    I'm sure you can tear yourself away from the the big Holywood blockbuster you're doubtless gestating.
    Actually, no I can't. Got a great producer attached to a project today.....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210
    edited September 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    Not really. If Osborne isn't streets ahead of Corbyn - then we'll elect someone else who will be.
    I don't agree. There is no one who really rivals Osborne in terms of networking and having a base within the party, and his biggest rival and arguably someone who would definitely beat Corbyh - Boris - is looking less and less likely to win the Tory leadership as time goes on.
    With due respect, you don't know much about the workings of the Tory party. We will pick somebody who will gt the job done.... There's plenty of talent to choose from.

    And I am one of the selectorate...
    I think I do on this subjects. The Tory party is also prone to electing duds as leaders. Politics in general is lacking 'talent' as in people who can improve Britain as opposed to further the aims of the Tory party. They aren't always the same thing....
    The Conservatives have Osborne, Javid, Hammond, May - they might not be everyone's cup of tea but they'll all tonk Corbyn on the PM question.

    Only 43% of firm Labour voters thinking Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne is utterly shocking. 57% will be washing their hair in May 2020.
    Osborne certainly isn't tonking Corbyn on the PM question atm http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/09/19/comres-poll-finds-corbyn-with-near-identical-ratings-as-osborne/ All the others would (well Hammond is a bit of a walk in the dark). Given how great Osborne is supposed to be and the lack of negative press he's gotten those MORI ratings are quite shocking tbh.
    One of them has been eating babies and murdreing disabled people faster than the Nazis for the last five years. For Corbyn to be on par with that is quite an achievement.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,084
    George Osborne is roughly as popular as Gordon Brown.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
    Yes and as I said before it doesn't tell us the amount of DKs or figures for the reverse question.
    Will that change the fact that less than half your own supporters don't think he'd be good. Hard to imagine Corbyn changing his ways significantly enough to shift these figures. Of course, if the great purge goes ahead, then it's anyone's guess.
    I don't dispute that - but if it's a contest between terrible vs terrible then it makes it a contest of who is the least bad.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/22/how-did-george-osborne-failure-become-peoples-favourite

    Net approval +19. Not exactly terrible for our heir-to-a-baronetcy.
    That's on his role as chancellor though, not as a potential PM.
    Shame you can't say that about the poll showing less than half your supporters think Corbyn would be a good PM. :D
    My supporters? I've said several times I'm not a Corbynite is anyone who doesn't think Tory majority nailed on considered a die hard Corbynite on here or something?
  • Options

    Great - Labour to ban the bacon butty. I know they it took it hard about Ed and THAT picture, but that is carrying a grudge....

    The Sun will have great fun telling White Van Man about Labour's latest wheeze. We'll get to recycle all those pork gags from about three days ago....
    It really is cracking entertainment.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210
    edited September 2015

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
    Yes and as I said before it doesn't tell us the amount of DKs or figures for the reverse question.
    Will that change the fact that less than half your own supporters don't think he'd be good. Hard to imagine Corbyn changing his ways significantly enough to shift these figures. Of course, if the great purge goes ahead, then it's anyone's guess.
    I don't dispute that - but if it's a contest between terrible vs terrible then it makes it a contest of who is the least bad.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/22/how-did-george-osborne-failure-become-peoples-favourite

    Net approval +19. Not exactly terrible for our heir-to-a-baronetcy.
    That's on his role as chancellor though, not as a potential PM.
    Shame you can't say that about the poll showing less than half your supporters think Corbyn would be a good PM. :D
    My supporters? I've said several times I'm not a Corbynite is anyone who doesn't think Tory majority nailed on considered a die hard Corbynite on here or something?
    Sorry, I thought you were a Labour supporter. The poll showed that while a majority of Corbyn supporters thought he'd make a good PM, there isn't a majority of Labour voters with the same opinion.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Interview with Vanessa Redgrave in the Evening Standard this evening. She describes the election of Corbyn as the "English Spring".

    You've just made that up
    Um. No, I haven't. Pick up a copy of the Evening Standard or read this:

    "All the same, she calls the advent of new Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn the “English Spring”.

    “It’s the English version and it’s greatly to be welcomed."

    http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/vanessa-redgrave-before-i-didn-t-care-at-all-now-i-find-myself-thinking-what-a-miracle-everything-is-a2954866.html

    I will accept your apology now.
    I didn't really mean it, it was my way of expressing incredulity
  • Options
    Mr. Royale, Vanessa Redgrave's a moron.

    The most obvious points are that:
    1) We're a democracy
    2) The Arab Spring worked almost nowhere (maybe Tunisia)

    Still, if I could get more publicity when my next book comes out by saying something daft to get media coverage, I might well [though I'd prefer something witty and insightful].
  • Options
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    Not really. If Osborne isn't streets ahead of Corbyn - then we'll elect someone else who will be.
    I don't agree. There is no one who really rivals Osborne in terms of networking and having a base within the party, and his biggest rival and arguably someone who would definitely beat Corbyh - Boris - is looking less and less likely to win the Tory leadership as time goes on.
    With due respect, you don't know much about the workings of the Tory party. We will pick somebody who will gt the job done.... There's plenty of talent to choose from.

    And I am one of the selectorate...
    I think I do on this subjects. The Tory party is also prone to electing duds as leaders. Politics in general is lacking 'talent' as in people who can improve Britain as opposed to further the aims of the Tory party. They aren't always the same thing....
    The Conservatives have Osborne, Javid, Hammond, May - they might not be everyone's cup of tea but they'll all tonk Corbyn on the PM question.

    Only 43% of firm Labour voters thinking Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne is utterly shocking. 57% will be washing their hair in May 2020.
    Osborne certainly isn't tonking Corbyn on the PM question atm http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/09/19/comres-poll-finds-corbyn-with-near-identical-ratings-as-osborne/ All the others would (well Hammond is a bit of a walk in the dark). Given how great Osborne is supposed to be and the lack of negative press he's gotten those MORI ratings are quite shocking tbh.
    One of them has been eating babies and murdreing disabled people faster than the Nazis for the last five years. For Corbyn to be on par with that is quite an achievement.
    A lot of that is internet stuff. It's certainly not in most of the mainstream press especially The Sun etc.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's not that surprising Corbyn has scored a negative figure. Besides being a divisive figure, he has faced a barrage load of negative publicity - so his figures were hardly going to be great. Interesting though that VI isn't that bad for Labour and hasn't been in any non ComRes poll for the most part. What matters however is not how Corbyn compares with Cameron, but with Osborne.

    The numbers don't look great. Even amongst Labour supporters a majority don't say Corbyn would be better than Osborne.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/09/the-huge-shock-coming-down-the-track-for-the-corbynites.html
    I recall that poll, however most polls previously - including one by MORI, show them pretty much neck and neck. That question also doesn't tell us much - just percentage figures from certain groups. It doesn't tell us don't knows, Osborne's own favourbility figures, or even how many people think Osborne would be a better PM than Corbyn.
    It tells us less than half of Labour voters think Corbyn would be a better PM than Osborne.
    Yes and as I said before it doesn't tell us the amount of DKs or figures for the reverse question.
    Will that change the fact that less than half your own supporters don't think he'd be good. Hard to imagine Corbyn changing his ways significantly enough to shift these figures. Of course, if the great purge goes ahead, then it's anyone's guess.
    I don't dispute that - but if it's a contest between terrible vs terrible then it makes it a contest of who is the least bad.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/22/how-did-george-osborne-failure-become-peoples-favourite

    Net approval +19. Not exactly terrible for our heir-to-a-baronetcy.
    That's on his role as chancellor though, not as a potential PM.
    Shame you can't say that about the poll showing less than half your supporters think Corbyn would be a good PM. :D
    My supporters? I've said several times I'm not a Corbynite is anyone who doesn't think Tory majority nailed on considered a die hard Corbynite on here or something?
    Sorry, I thought you were a Labour supporter. The poll showed that while a majority of Corbyn supporters thought he'd make a good PM, there isn't a majority of Labour voters with the same opinion.
    I know that!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210

    RobD said:



    Sorry, I thought you were a Labour supporter. The poll showed that while a majority of Corbyn supporters thought he'd make a good PM, there isn't a majority of Labour voters with the same opinion.

    I know that!
    So I wasn't accusing you of being a Corbyn supporter.
  • Options
    JEO said:

    I love this excuse that Corbyn's ratings are caused by the 'barrage of negative publicity' about him, as though it were a temporary and accidental setback which (a) is nothing to do with the fact that there's a hell of a lot to be negative about, and (b) is somehow not going to apply or have any effect in the future.

    I don't think they are the only cause, but they certainly part of it. The other part is as I said previously Corbyn is quite a divisive figure looking at his views on everything from the monarchy to immigration. Then again I forgot that the press aren't to be factored in as an influence when they do things Tories approve of...
    The European referendum poll from the other day asked people where they got their news from. The biggest source, by far, was BBC TV News, which 60%+ citing it as a source. All the newspaper together only got about 30%. Given the BBC so obviously leans to the left, I don't think the Labour Party has any grounds to complain about the media.
    The BBC has hardly been pro Corbyn! Leaning to the left doesn't mean supporting Corbyh - I'm a leftie and I disagree with him on most things.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited September 2015
    @Apocalypse

    Why do you concentrate on Osborne as being the next Conservative leader? Have a look at the alternatives - forget Boris and May they are the past - look at some of the youngsters coming through the pack. My money remains on the contest being between Liz Truss and Sajid Javid (assuming neither of them blow up in the stables between now and the race). Justine Greening ought to have made the start but she has been so thoroughly house trained by the DfID I very much doubt she will get a look in (much to Morris Dancer's disappointment I am sure).
  • Options
    RobD said:

    RobD said:



    Sorry, I thought you were a Labour supporter. The poll showed that while a majority of Corbyn supporters thought he'd make a good PM, there isn't a majority of Labour voters with the same opinion.

    I know that!
    So I wasn't accusing you of being a Corbyn supporter.
    I meant 'I know that' in relation to what the poll says. I'm on my phone so it's difficult to highlight stuff in bold to make things more clear.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210

    @Apocalypse

    Why do you concentrate on Osborne as being the next Conservative leader? Have a look at the alternatives - forget Boris and May they are the past - look at some of the youngsters coming through the pack. My money remains on the contest being between Liz Truss and Sajid Javid (assuming neither of them blow up in the stables between now and the contest). Justine Greening ought to have made the start but she has been so thoroughly house trained by the DfID I very much doubt she will get a look in (much to Morris Dancer's disappointment I am sure).

    I'm of the opinion that our illustrious chancellor shouldn't go for leader, and instead let a young'un have a shot.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    I presume we must assume the 37% who think Corbyn 'patriotic' are either living in a parallel universe or (more likely) don't actually know who he is.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210
    edited September 2015

    RobD said:

    RobD said:



    Sorry, I thought you were a Labour supporter. The poll showed that while a majority of Corbyn supporters thought he'd make a good PM, there isn't a majority of Labour voters with the same opinion.

    I know that!
    So I wasn't accusing you of being a Corbyn supporter.
    I meant 'I know that' in relation to what the poll says. I'm on my phone so it's difficult to highlight stuff in bold to make things more clear.
    Yes, but in your reply to me you seemed to suggest I thought you were a Corbyn supporter. I never said that, nor did I imply it.

  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited September 2015

    @Apocalypse

    Why do you concentrate on Osborne as being the next Conservative leader? Have a look at the alternatives - forget Boris and May they are the past - look at some of the youngsters coming through the pack. My money remains on the contest being between Liz Truss and Sajid Javid (assuming neither of them blow up in the stables between now and the contest). Justine Greening ought to have made the start but she has been so thoroughly house trained by the DfID I very much doubt she will get a look in (much to Morris Dancer's disappointment I am sure).

    Liz Truss and Javid youngsters! In all seriousness I think Javid will only bid for the leadership if Osborbe doesn't and Truss doesn't appear to have that much of a base.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210

    @Apocalypse

    Why do you concentrate on Osborne as being the next Conservative leader? Have a look at the alternatives - forget Boris and May they are the past - look at some of the youngsters coming through the pack. My money remains on the contest being between Liz Truss and Sajid Javid (assuming neither of them blow up in the stables between now and the contest). Justine Greening ought to have made the start but she has been so thoroughly house trained by the DfID I very much doubt she will get a look in (much to Morris Dancer's disappointment I am sure).

    Liz Truss and Javid youngsters
    Exactly the type of people who feel most disillusioned from politics. ;)
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    RobD said:

    @Apocalypse

    Why do you concentrate on Osborne as being the next Conservative leader? Have a look at the alternatives - forget Boris and May they are the past - look at some of the youngsters coming through the pack. My money remains on the contest being between Liz Truss and Sajid Javid (assuming neither of them blow up in the stables between now and the contest). Justine Greening ought to have made the start but she has been so thoroughly house trained by the DfID I very much doubt she will get a look in (much to Morris Dancer's disappointment I am sure).

    I'm of the opinion that our illustrious chancellor shouldn't go for leader, and instead let a young'un have a shot.
    I agree Mr D.. If Osborne does not go for the top job then he may go down in history as a passable chancellor (which is probably more than he deserves). If he tries I think he will fail. Not least because on previous form we are due a re-recession towards the end of this parliament which will knock the shine off of any record he may have created. He also has somewhat less leadership ability than my cat and I think most of the Conservative selectorate will know that..
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,210
    RobD said:

    @Apocalypse

    Why do you concentrate on Osborne as being the next Conservative leader? Have a look at the alternatives - forget Boris and May they are the past - look at some of the youngsters coming through the pack. My money remains on the contest being between Liz Truss and Sajid Javid (assuming neither of them blow up in the stables between now and the contest). Justine Greening ought to have made the start but she has been so thoroughly house trained by the DfID I very much doubt she will get a look in (much to Morris Dancer's disappointment I am sure).

    Liz Truss and Javid youngsters
    Exactly the type of people who feel most disillusioned from politics. ;)
    Rich millionaire ex-bankers, that is. :D
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Asylum applications per 1000 population:

    5.6 Sweden
    3.6 Germany
    0.5 UK

    Despite popular belief most people do not want to come to the UK.
  • Options

    Interview with Vanessa Redgrave in the Evening Standard this evening. She describes the election of Corbyn as the "English Spring".

    You've just made that up
    Um. No, I haven't. Pick up a copy of the Evening Standard or read this:

    "All the same, she calls the advent of new Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn the “English Spring”.

    “It’s the English version and it’s greatly to be welcomed."

    http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/vanessa-redgrave-before-i-didn-t-care-at-all-now-i-find-myself-thinking-what-a-miracle-everything-is-a2954866.html

    I will accept your apology now.
    I didn't really mean it, it was my way of expressing incredulity
    Fair enough!
  • Options
    runnymede said:

    I presume we must assume the 37% who think Corbyn 'patriotic' are either living in a parallel universe or (more likely) don't actually know who he is.

    Or what the word means.
  • Options
    surbiton said:

    Asylum applications per 1000 population:

    5.6 Sweden
    3.6 Germany
    0.5 UK

    Despite popular belief most people do not want to come to the UK.

    Or they do want to come to the UK but being an island nation we're harder to get to.
Sign In or Register to comment.