politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some fashion advice for Jeremy Corbyn
Comments
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The PPE clones in suits are a symptom, not the disease itself. Corbyn in a suit would still fail but his refusal to fit the image of a politician will reinforce the negative opinion of people who want and expect politicians to look like, well, politicians.Jonathan said:PB spends a good proportion of it's time complaining about careerist PPE clones in smart but empty suits dominating politics.
Then the moment something different crops up, it complains about the lack of said smart empty suit.0 -
The electorate are tolerant but they will not tolerate a threat to national security and that is how the Tories are going to present him ...the Panorama expose is just a mere hint of what is to come ...Corbyn is just too old and set in his ways to ever change , even if he wished to ..he's just two dimensional , too ''authentic '' too much convictions ...I expect him to be forced to resign within a few months0
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As I say, I think he respects them as individuals. But I imagine he holds Britain equally as responsible as Germany for the outbreak of the war; and I have no doubt he has very little time at all four our armed services as institutions.JWisemann said:
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake.SouthamObserver said:
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.DavidL said:
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.kle4 said:
Ditto.JohnLoony said:I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
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People who wear white poppies are always amazed that anyone can be offended by it, and don't understand why everyone doesn't want peace, man.HYUFD said:
Yes shrewd if Corbyn does winInnocent_Abroad said:
If I were Cammo, I'd suggest to HMQ that she reminds everyone to wear red ones...HYUFD said:He may also wear a white poppy to Remembrance Sunday if he becomes leader as expected it was reported yesterday. The FrontPage of the Times today says Corbyn has questioned the drone strike and said he would not have authorised it
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If 70s fashion becomes the in thing, I could finally dust off the wedding photos and let them see the light of day.
I remember voting Labour in 1983 despite Foot. But at least, he was patriotic and had some intellectual weight. A scruffy bastard to be sure, but in a nerdy lecturer way.
Jezza will be remembered for his vest and hatred of all things American, not in a nostalgic way.0 -
Agreed; he is anti-war (his sincerity is unquestionable) and so would have resisted intervention in Poland and as he resists intervention in Syria.SouthamObserver said:
As I say, I think he respects them as individuals. But I imagine he holds Britain equally as responsible as Germany for the outbreak of the war; and I have no doubt he has very little time at all four our armed services as institutions.JWisemann said:
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake.SouthamObserver said:
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.DavidL said:
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.kle4 said:
Ditto.JohnLoony said:I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
With regards to the armed forces, I imagine the feeling is mutual!0 -
Plus fours are rather posh..and i always thought they were only for walking through long grass..but I am merely a peasant so would not know0
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Corbyn has never provided any indication that he is fond of Britain. Patriotism does not equate to believing Britain should rule the world.NickPalmer said:
Innocent is a bit of a troll - he likes to wind us all up, both left and right. But to respond seriously - there is a difference between feeling more affection and responsibility for people close to you than others, and wanting that to be a bedrock of Government policy. Most of us put our families before others and are fond of Britain, but that doesn't mean that we would say that Britain should rule the world, any more than I'd want the Government to tailor nursing home policy for the convenience of my aunt. A fair government that gives us all a reasonable chance (naturally views will differ on the details of that) and enough space to look after those we care about will do fine for most of us, left and right.Innocent_Abroad said:
Scratch a patriot and you will find a racist. Always. Everywhere - look at the current governments of Japan and India. At least Da'esh and the like make no secret of their belief that God prefers Arabs to other people.
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Betting observation.
Most voters vote for what looks like a competent government Leader.
Being scruffy creates for most voters the appearance of incompetence.
TSE is right, but this is just the start.0 -
Why is the left against Globalisation?Innocent_Abroad said:
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.Sean_F said:
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.Innocent_Abroad said:
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?Luckyguy1983 said:
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.SouthamObserver said:
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.Innocent_Abroad said:
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
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Was there ever any doubt?TheScreamingEagles said:I too have made plans for the Zombie apocalypse.
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They want them to look competent. Being unable to dress in a smart manner exudes incompetence to most voters.david_herdson said:
The PPE clones in suits are a symptom, not the disease itself. Corbyn in a suit would still fail but his refusal to fit the image of a politician will reinforce the negative opinion of people who want and expect politicians to look like, well, politicians.Jonathan said:PB spends a good proportion of it's time complaining about careerist PPE clones in smart but empty suits dominating politics.
Then the moment something different crops up, it complains about the lack of said smart empty suit.
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Foot was a great orator too, stirring, passionate and incredibly eloquent.
Jezza- well, when he speaks he kind of lulls you into a snooze.Recidivist said:
And a fat lot of good it did him. The anti-Foot vitriol in the press at the 83 election was at fever pitch. I think the fact that we only have pygmies in all parties now is a lot to do with the way the press behaves.Cromwell said:Corbyn is not like M Foot who was a serious political heavyweight , a talented writer , speaker and intellectual with front bench ministerial experience and anti Nazi resume ...oh no , Corbyn is not even a pound shop M Foot ,he's merely a M Foot garden gnome
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It's the scruffiness actually. Varafoukis is a good example of how you can be a politician but not wear an M&S suit (or the Greek alternative) but still look respectable. We live in an age where suits are no longer required for most jobs, but one is expected to look smart and respectable. A politician in jeans, an open necked shirt and a jacket would be immediately accepted (though not at the cenotaph obv.). Corbyn just looks a mess.david_herdson said:
The PPE clones in suits are a symptom, not the disease itself. Corbyn in a suit would still fail but his refusal to fit the image of a politician will reinforce the negative opinion of people who want and expect politicians to look like, well, politicians.Jonathan said:PB spends a good proportion of it's time complaining about careerist PPE clones in smart but empty suits dominating politics.
Then the moment something different crops up, it complains about the lack of said smart empty suit.0 -
Popular for golfists too (or used to be - unless you are Payne Stewart may he r.i.p)...richardDodd said:Plus fours are rather posh..and i always thought they were only for walking through long grass..but I am merely a peasant so would not know
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Parts of the left are; as are parts of the right.TOPPING said:
Why is the left against Globalisation?Innocent_Abroad said:
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.Sean_F said:
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.Innocent_Abroad said:
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?Luckyguy1983 said:
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.SouthamObserver said:
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.Innocent_Abroad said:
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
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The key there is 'I imagine'.SouthamObserver said:
As I say, I think he respects them as individuals. But I imagine he holds Britain equally as responsible as Germany for the outbreak of the war; and I have no doubt he has very little time at all four our armed services as institutions.JWisemann said:
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake.SouthamObserver said:
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.DavidL said:
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.kle4 said:
Ditto.JohnLoony said:I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
You are erecting a straw man of your own prejudice.
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Re the Zombie Apocolypse...a relative here lives in a moated castle...which has a drawbridge ..that is in working condition....lots of apartments in there...just in case..0
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I do not think Corbyn will be inclined to listen to advice from HM and her courtiers.Innocent_Abroad said:
If I were Cammo, I'd suggest to HMQ that she reminds everyone to wear red ones...HYUFD said:He may also wear a white poppy to Remembrance Sunday if he becomes leader as expected it was reported yesterday. The FrontPage of the Times today says Corbyn has questioned the drone strike and said he would not have authorised it
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An item in my wardrobeDaemonBarber said:
Was there ever any doubt?TheScreamingEagles said:I too have made plans for the Zombie apocalypse.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CRCkoA0AL._SX342_.jpg0 -
why are parts of the left against it? It seems ridiculous that a mechanism which has lifted many of the poorest people out of poverty should be anything other than Article No.1 in any left-leaning manifesto.SouthamObserver said:
Parts of the left are; as are parts of the right.TOPPING said:
Why is the left against Globalisation?Innocent_Abroad said:
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.Sean_F said:
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.Innocent_Abroad said:
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?Luckyguy1983 said:
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.SouthamObserver said:
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.Innocent_Abroad said:
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
The only conclusion I can reach is that it is exploitative MNCs abusing the various indigenous populations: an absurd notion given the many many indigenous companies benefiting from it.
So I ask again: why are (parts of) the left against globalisation?0 -
Mr Wiseman,
"His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake."
Very Citizen Smith and very sixties/seventies speak. Everyone who isn't totally for you is a fascist and that includes social democrats and liberals. That's why they splinter into so many different groups each with their own version of purity.
I suspect Dr Palmer has his tongue in his cheek too while he relives his childhood. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
Jezza is detritus, washed along the beach and left stranded by the march of history.0 -
Of course. I have a view and I express it. I believe Corbyn's history of activism, those he has associated with and his oft-expressed opinions support my view of him as an anti-capitalist, anti-western, class warrior with no regard for the UK or its history. We'll find out if I am wrong soon enough.JWisemann said:
The key there is 'I imagine'.SouthamObserver said:
As I say, I think he respects them as individuals. But I imagine he holds Britain equally as responsible as Germany for the outbreak of the war; and I have no doubt he has very little time at all four our armed services as institutions.JWisemann said:
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake.SouthamObserver said:
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.DavidL said:
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.kle4 said:
Ditto.JohnLoony said:I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
You are erecting a straw man of your own prejudice.
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Because it is antithetical to democracy within nations, and ensures a race to the bottom for worker's rights and environmental regulation. I'm all for global regulation of these things, and would be more than happy for free trade with countries that have the same level of protection in these areas.TOPPING said:
Why is the left against Globalisation?Innocent_Abroad said:
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.Sean_F said:
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.Innocent_Abroad said:
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?Luckyguy1983 said:
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.SouthamObserver said:
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.Innocent_Abroad said:
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
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I think the clue was in the name - British Union of FascistsCD13 said:Mr Wiseman,
"His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake."
Very Citizen Smith and very sixties/seventies speak. Everyone who isn't totally for you is a fascist and that includes social democrats and liberals. That's why they splinter into so many different groups each with their own version of purity.
I suspect Dr Palmer has his tongue in his cheek too while he relives his childhood. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
Jezza is detritus, washed along the beach and left stranded by the march of history.
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Is it wrong to covet your hoodie?TheScreamingEagles said:
An item in my wardrobeDaemonBarber said:
Was there ever any doubt?TheScreamingEagles said:I too have made plans for the Zombie apocalypse.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CRCkoA0AL._SX342_.jpg
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I wonder about Villiers being Northern Ireland Secretary given the difficult situation developing. Might she be reshuffled?0
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The Cabinet Office has plans to cope with A zombie apocalypse, though Leicester is poorly prepared:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9721072/Britain-is-well-prepared-to-fight-apocalyptic-zombie-invasion.html
No doubt George would use his usual genius to resolve the issue.0 -
Mr Wiseman,
"I think the clue was in the name - British Union of Fascists."
How about Ukip? How about Liz Kendall? Just fellow travellers?0 -
Mr. Foxinsox, one suspects Labour voting areas might be mysteriously deprived of protection.
A visit to the Royal Armouries for some chainmail and weapons could be a shrewd move.0 -
So you would rather China didn't export anything to the west? But wait...China is...a left-wing country. One of the most left-wing countries. With hitherto (and still ongoing) grinding poverty that globalisation has helped to alleviate.JWisemann said:
Because it is antithetical to democracy within nations, and ensures a race to the bottom for worker's rights and environmental regulation. I'm all for global regulation of these things, and would be more than happy for free trade with countries that have the same level of protection in these areas.TOPPING said:
Why is the left against Globalisation?Innocent_Abroad said:
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.Sean_F said:
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.Innocent_Abroad said:
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?Luckyguy1983 said:
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.SouthamObserver said:
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.Innocent_Abroad said:
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
But you would wait? For what? And when do you expect it to happen? I mean in the real world. Not in your late night student drinking session after the Uni has closed (do they close these days?). And yes I know, you are a small businessman. Not importing any intermediates from LDCs, I trust.0 -
An entire legitimate position, but one that holds it has no grounds to call pro-trade Eurosceptics "little Englanders".JWisemann said:Because it is antithetical to democracy within nations, and ensures a race to the bottom for worker's rights and environmental regulation. I'm all for global regulation of these things, and would be more than happy for free trade with countries that have the same level of protection in these areas.
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It will still be a political problem whether it's true or not, if most of the country imagines it too.JWisemann said:
The key there is 'I imagine'.SouthamObserver said:
As I say, I think he respects them as individuals. But I imagine he holds Britain equally as responsible as Germany for the outbreak of the war; and I have no doubt he has very little time at all four our armed services as institutions.JWisemann said:
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake.SouthamObserver said:
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.DavidL said:
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.kle4 said:
Ditto.JohnLoony said:I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
You are erecting a straw man of your own prejudice.0 -
Interesting that he doesn't condemn Russia's actually imperialist war in Ukraine then.JWisemann said:
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake.SouthamObserver said:
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.DavidL said:
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.kle4 said:
Ditto.JohnLoony said:I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.0 -
Because caring about your fellow countrymen has nothing to do with race.Innocent_Abroad said:
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.Sean_F said:
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.Innocent_Abroad said:
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?Luckyguy1983 said:
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.SouthamObserver said:
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.Innocent_Abroad said:
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
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The difference between migrants and refugees is quite striking. One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies. The refugees often comprise of families, children, the old, fleeing through fear of their lives. Obviously, Europe has a moral obligation to accept these, but economically, they are likely to be a pull on resources until the children are old enough to enter the workforce.
But the whole narrative used by politicians- "we need to provide a place of refuge to genuine refugees but return economic migrants" is basically flawed. In terms of hard economics it would be much better for Europe to accept the economic migrants and return the refugees.Roger said:Talking about fashion....
Yesterday I went to Menton on the Italian Franch border and saw my first African migrants. They were only a trickle snaking their way from the largely unguarded border post and along the promenade. They wore black tracksuits trainers and heavy backpacks the locals Gucci sandals Prada shorts and Louis Vuiton bags. As the migrants marched along past the cafes in the Old Town heads down looking at the pavement the residents seemed oblivious.
I found it really moving. They had more than likely had horrendous journeys and here they were beside one of the most fashionable waterfronts in the world with no idea of their destination. They'd likely been travelling for weeks or even months. I thought they could at least sleep on the beach though realistically there was no chance and their next stop was Monaco where there was even less chance.
They really needed money and some guidance. If someone could just organize I'm sure there are plenty of people with buckets of money who would like to help. It is an absolute imperative. Europe is not short of resources. People just need to have their eyes opened.0 -
Migrants and refugees are not exclusive groups. If you have been forced to leave your country, you are a refugee. If you are moving from one country to another, you are a migrant.
Those refugees that are crossing Europe are still migrants.0 -
On the other hand, he would probably have also resisted leaping into war with the Kaiser with wild abandon in 1914, a war that was both a human catastrophe and the end of Britain as the dominant world power. People like him also opposed Vietnam - would you have liked to go into that one? You seem to have 'Munich syndrome' as identified by Peter Hitchens - the believe that all tyrants are Hitler, and the date is always September 1938. There are many wars where it was far more in the national interest to stay out, whether we did or not, and it is by no means the patriotic thing to always be an armchair warrior - though such people always wrap themselves in the flag.DearPB said:
Agreed; he is anti-war (his sincerity is unquestionable) and so would have resisted intervention in Poland and as he resists intervention in Syria.
With regards to the armed forces, I imagine the feeling is mutual!
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9622092/forget-chilcot-heres-the-inquiry-we-really-need/0 -
Yup, and coalmen, and lots of builders/groundworkers [those had Dayglo orange shoulders]. Weren't they made of wool and waterproofed too as the ultimate outdoors working coat?
I remember when studenty types started to wear them as a fashion statement and thinking how silly they looked. Then again students wore Greatcoats back then too.CD13 said:Mr Loony,
"I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context."
You young 'uns. They were very popular in the day and very practical. Very hard wearing and you could get leather padding on the shoulders for carrying things. Bin men always had them. And I had one once.0 -
LuckyGuy- sometimes you can say some very clever thingsLuckyguy1983 said:
On the other hand, he would probably have also resisted leaping into war with the Kaiser with wild abandon in 1914, a war that was both a human catastrophe and the end of Britain as the dominant world power. People like him also opposed Vietnam - would you have liked to go into that one? You seem to have 'Munich syndrome' as identified by Peter Hitchens - the believe that all tyrants are Hitler, and the date is always September 1938. There are many wars where it was far more in the national interest to stay out, whether we did or not, and it is by no means the patriotic thing to always be an armchair warrior - though such people always wrap themselves in the flag.DearPB said:
Agreed; he is anti-war (his sincerity is unquestionable) and so would have resisted intervention in Poland and as he resists intervention in Syria.
With regards to the armed forces, I imagine the feeling is mutual!
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9622092/forget-chilcot-heres-the-inquiry-we-really-need/0 -
Looks like Shadsy is going to offer 100/1 on a political accumulator.
: #Corbyn, #Trump, #Brexit & #indyref2 - by end of 20160 -
Us 80s students mainly either wore these jackets, greatcoats or ex-army stuff. Apart from the few remaining New Romantics.Plato said:Yup, and coalmen, and lots of builders/groundworkers [those had Dayglo orange shoulders]. Weren't they made of wool and waterproofed too as the ultimate outdoors working coat?
I remember when studenty types started to wear them as a fashion statement and thinking how silly they looked. Then again students wore Greatcoats back then too.CD13 said:Mr Loony,
"I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context."
You young 'uns. They were very popular in the day and very practical. Very hard wearing and you could get leather padding on the shoulders for carrying things. Bin men always had them. And I had one once.0 -
She's been marvellously monstered by the Mail today - serves her right.SquareRoot said:
Perhaps that ghastly lefty hypocrite lawyer why slagged off a colleague for complimenting her on linked in should star in it. She would be perfect. She needs to take down her Facebook account.. its so easy to see hypocrisy.Scott_P said:@ZoraSuleman: It's reported the sitcom Citizen Smith, starring Robert Lyndsey, is to return.
0 -
Trolololololololol
@stephenkb: Just realised: when Corbyn beats Burnham, Labour will have picked an option considered too crazy for Eoin Clarke.0 -
No. Not wrong at all.DaemonBarber said:
Is it wrong to covet your hoodie?TheScreamingEagles said:
An item in my wardrobeDaemonBarber said:
Was there ever any doubt?TheScreamingEagles said:I too have made plans for the Zombie apocalypse.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CRCkoA0AL._SX342_.jpg0 -
mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.0 -
Indy ref 2 would be the sticker on that one, can't see it happening in the timescale.TheScreamingEagles said:Looks like Shadsy is going to offer 100/1 on a political accumulator.
: #Corbyn, #Trump, #Brexit & #indyref2 - by end of 20160 -
@RorySmithTimes: My Venn diagram showing relation of those who say "help our own first" & those who get upset about "soft" benefits. http://t.co/gc0r5UlI4N0
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Miss Plato, as someone noted on Twitter, a lawyer who publicises private correspondence may not necessarily have enhanced her reputation.
Mr. Eagles, interesting accumulator. I think Trump's the least likely, and a second independence vote by 2016 also very long odds.0 -
Morning Hotstuff
- Indeed, Charlotte played the media game and appears to have lost.
Plato said:She's been marvellously monstered by the Mail today - serves her right.
SquareRoot said:Scott_P said:0 -
I wore a donkey jacket in the 80's and wore red socks- a look I was rather quite pleased with. Now after reading Plato's posts I realise why I wasn't particularly successful with the girls....they must have thought I looked rather silly.rottenborough said:
Us 80s students mainly either wore these jackets, greatcoats or ex-army stuff. Apart from the few remaining New Romantics.Plato said:Yup, and coalmen, and lots of builders/groundworkers [those had Dayglo orange shoulders]. Weren't they made of wool and waterproofed too as the ultimate outdoors working coat?
I remember when studenty types started to wear them as a fashion statement and thinking how silly they looked. Then again students wore Greatcoats back then too.CD13 said:Mr Loony,
"I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context."
You young 'uns. They were very popular in the day and very practical. Very hard wearing and you could get leather padding on the shoulders for carrying things. Bin men always had them. And I had one once.Plato said:Yup, and coalmen, and lots of builders/groundworkers [those had Dayglo orange shoulders]. Weren't they made of wool and waterproofed too as the ultimate outdoors working coat?
I remember when studenty types started to wear them as a fashion statement and thinking how silly they looked. Then again students wore Greatcoats back then too.CD13 said:Mr Loony,
"I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context."
You young 'uns. They were very popular in the day and very practical. Very hard wearing and you could get leather padding on the shoulders for carrying things. Bin men always had them. And I had one once.0 -
Looks like Shadsy will be making some money thenTheScreamingEagles said:Looks like Shadsy is going to offer 100/1 on a political accumulator.
: #Corbyn, #Trump, #Brexit & #indyref2 - by end of 20160 -
Someone should be encouraging the Spanish to head to Germany.blackburn63 said:mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.
Besides, many of the migrants don't have work uppermost in their minds but the expected gifts that 'generous Europeans' will bestow on them such as houses, and women. One only has to listen to the various interviews with the travellers that the BBC are pumping out across the airwaves to work that out.0 -
SSC Before one wades out into that fast flowing media stream it is wise to work out where the shallows are and where the deep dark pools may be...which should be avoided..0
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I'm a hippy peacenik myself so I'm not saying I wouldn't agree with him.Luckyguy1983 said:
On the other hand, he would probably have also resisted leaping into war with the Kaiser with wild abandon in 1914, a war that was both a human catastrophe and the end of Britain as the dominant world power. People like him also opposed Vietnam - would you have liked to go into that one? You seem to have 'Munich syndrome' as identified by Peter Hitchens - the believe that all tyrants are Hitler, and the date is always September 1938. There are many wars where it was far more in the national interest to stay out, whether we did or not, and it is by no means the patriotic thing to always be an armchair warrior - though such people always wrap themselves in the flag.DearPB said:
Agreed; he is anti-war (his sincerity is unquestionable) and so would have resisted intervention in Poland and as he resists intervention in Syria.
With regards to the armed forces, I imagine the feeling is mutual!
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9622092/forget-chilcot-heres-the-inquiry-we-really-need/
But there is the question of judgement - could you imagine JC having stayed out of all those other wars but then getting it right with Hitler?0 -
Nothing Corbyn says, does or wears can make him remotely electable to the British public.0
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Spain's economy is a basket case....the 50% youth unemployment is masked by the black economy.
We only have to compare and contrast the US to Japan to appreciate what economic migration does. One is youthful and vibrant.....and the other is stagnant and ageing.blackburn63 said:mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.0 -
The 50% figure is not accurate. Spain's problem is partly black economy, partly nepotism and also general corruption.blackburn63 said:mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.0 -
So Mr Tyson you are effectively giving up on the youth of Spain but would berate others for giving up on the youth of Syria or Eritrea.0
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Huge numbers already have - and to the UK. not a long-term solution for a healthy Spain however.watford30 said:
Someone should be encouraging the Spanish to head to Germany.blackburn63 said:mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.
Besides, many of the migrants don't have work uppermost in their minds but the expected gifts that 'generous Europeans' will bestow on them such as houses, and women. One only has to listen to the various interviews with the travellers that the BBC are pumping out across the airwaves to work that out.0 -
Hello Gorgeous
!
My timeline has been packed with Mrs Mensch going berserk about it and backing Ms Proudman [who changed her name to that two years ago...].
It was the exact opposite of what I expected. Frankly, I wouldn't want to work with Charlotte - and imagine being stuck in a lift with her.
Her whole confected outrage just looks like a trap to catch some poor nit on LinkedIn, so she could shout about it. I wonder how many she invited to join her network? No wonder a few solicitors are now refusing to send her work.SimonStClare said:Morning Hotstuff
- Indeed, Charlotte played the media game and appears to have lost. Plato said:She's been marvellously monstered by the Mail today - serves her right.
SquareRoot said:Scott_P said:0 -
The economic migrants of course are not heading to Spain or Italy.blackburn63 said:
So Mr Tyson you are effectively giving up on the youth of Spain but would berate others for giving up on the youth of Syria or Eritrea.
0 -
And mr felix, the problems you highlight could easily apply to the countries from which the young men are fleeing.
Anybody who cannot foresee the problems with hundreds of thousands of mainly young men entering into a different country is being naïve.0 -
the coat was also green which probably didn't help0
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Miss Plato, you're not so bad yourself
I was also surprised to see Mensch was supporting Proudman.0 -
Yet. There will come time when Germany says enough is enough. The Hungarian PM is the voice of common sense in this mess.
I saw police hitting migrants/refuges with batons on the news last night, its only a matter of time before something far worse occurs. First it was tripping up, then batons, then.....
Oh but we need them, I hear you cry. We'll see.tyson said:The economic migrants of course are not heading to Spain or Italy.
blackburn63 said:So Mr Tyson you are effectively giving up on the youth of Spain but would berate others for giving up on the youth of Syria or Eritrea.
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She has managed to demonstrate that she would take offence at a manufactured slight, and put private matters into the public domain with a flimsy excuse when it suits her purposes.Plato said:...
Her whole confected outrage just looks like a trap to catch some poor nit on LinkedIn, so she could shout about it. I wonder how many she invited to join her network? No wonder a few solicitors are now refusing to send her work.
Would you trust this person for a legal matter?
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A good article. The media will be lining up to find fault so he his team will have to make sure he behaves appropriately. It is going to be a massive media barrage he could face with not only the right-wing media against him but the Guardian and BBC0
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Mr Tyson ...wrong..there are some towns in Italy that are being overrun by migrants..mainly young men who live in hostels and sleep around the open spaces all day.. the crime rate in some areas has also shot up..which may or may not be a consequence of this.. Even where I live there seems to be some small turf wars breaking out even in supermarket car parks..as to who or what gang will control the trolley return rights..from small beginnings..0
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Someone noticed that she waited a whole 11 minutes between firing off her rebuke to the chappy and publishing her outrage. That included writing it, taking the pic of the message...
She clearly wasn't interested in hearing his response.MarkHopkins said:
She has managed to demonstrate that she would take offence at a manufactured slight, and put private matters into the public domain with a flimsy excuse when it suits her purposes.Plato said:...
Her whole confected outrage just looks like a trap to catch some poor nit on LinkedIn, so she could shout about it. I wonder how many she invited to join her network? No wonder a few solicitors are now refusing to send her work.
Would you trust this person for a legal matter?0 -
The BBC will be interesting to watch.
After the canned sunshine they lobbed at Corbyn via Panorama, I get the impression they aren't very keen on him...GarethoftheVale2 said:A good article. The media will be lining up to find fault so he his team will have to make sure he behaves appropriately. It is going to be a massive media barrage he could face with not only the right-wing media against him but the Guardian and BBC
0 -
Miss Plato, fast typist, or prepared text ready to slot in the chap's name?0
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When do we get London Mayor Labour result?0
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True, but he really should make half an effort as to his appearance. The Leader of Her Majestey's Loyal Opposition should present himself appropriately for the gravity of that office.GIN1138 said:Nothing Corbyn says, does or wears can make him remotely electable to the British public.
If he is going to dinner with the Queen next month as was suggested yesterday, maybe the PM if not one of his better-dressed colleagues (Chuka, Tristam, Dan J etc.) might kindly assist him in how to tie a bow tie and which cutlery is used for which course.
Kudos to the first tailor in London to offer him a free suit for PMQs, or to the hairdresser that gives him a 'short back and sides' and something with the scraggly beard!!0 -
MD She baited the hook..and someone bit..there will always be one..just a question of time.0
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Mr. Borough, between midday and 1pm, but it's subject to change.0
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On the important issue of the day: donkey jackets.
I last saw someone wearing one on a building site near here, either last winter or the one before.
So why have they disappeared? I'd guess 'elf and safety hasn't helped: they're not exactly high vis. Also, as clothing has become cheaper, you might as well buy something slightly trendier that you can throw away in a few months when it's tattered and torn from work. Also, as I remember, they were rather overly warm (then again, I generally feel warm anyway).0 -
Michael Foot at the Cenotaph has some inexplicably totemic status in the in-laws household as the single most shocking political event of the last 40 years. In their version of events, he spent the entire time playing pocket billiards.
Having never seem the film of it myself - was he playing pocket billiards?
In any case, it looks they're going to be talking about Jezza for decades to come.0 -
Mr. Jessop, you've failed to address the substantive point. Would donkey jackets be appropriate for a zombie apocalypse?0
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What does "vibrant" actually mean? It's one of those terms that seems to be thrown about a lot without any explanation of what it entails. I'm assuming "stagnant" means low growth, but Japan has had 2% GDP per capita for the last couple of years now. And a lot of their weakness comes from debt.tyson said:Spain's economy is a basket case....the 50% youth unemployment is masked by the black economy.
We only have to compare and contrast the US to Japan to appreciate what economic migration does. One is youthful and vibrant.....and the other is stagnant and ageing.blackburn63 said:mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.0 -
Because it sucksTOPPING said:
Why is the left against Globalisation?Innocent_Abroad said:
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.Sean_F said:
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.Innocent_Abroad said:
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?Luckyguy1983 said:
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.SouthamObserver said:
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.Innocent_Abroad said:
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
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Corbyn will probably wear a green poppy if any.
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Yes. Fraser Nelson is increasingly idiotic and pointless.Plato said:twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/642256000683257856
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Keep your eyes on E BAY for s sudden supply of donkey jackets..the fashion statement of the future..this could save the Chinese Economy0
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Ms Proudman makes an interesting distinction. Linkedin for professional purposes, Facebook for social things.Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, fast typist, or prepared text ready to slot in the chap's name?
I am not on Linkedin, for a variety of reasons but principally because I do not like people trying to establish new "Old boy networks" for allocating work. It seems to me to be potentially discriminatory and against open competition. In a business like law in particular.0 -
The EU is strong arming Iceland, Lietchenstein, Norway, and Switzerland into accepting asylum seekers:
https://euobserver.com/migration/1301860 -
He's in a race with Tim Montgomerie to see who can out wet the other.flightpath01 said:
Yes. Fraser Nelson is increasingly idiotic and pointless.Plato said:twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/642256000683257856
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The shoulder padding might stop chaffing when using a shoulder-mounted RPG, and the elbow pads would also be more comfortable when shooting from a prone position.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, you've failed to address the substantive point. Would donkey jackets be appropriate for a zombie apocalypse?
And the bulk of the jacket could hide lots of spare weapons and ammo. So, for winter, it'd be good.0 -
The ubiquitous Donkey Jacket..the perfect silent protest garment...comes in all colours and fabrics as long as it is in black and made of wool or cotton..silk by special order...who,d a thunk it..0
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Razor sharp analysis there Malc, as always.malcolmg said:
Because it sucksTOPPING said:
Why is the left against Globalisation?Innocent_Abroad said:
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.Sean_F said:
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.Innocent_Abroad said:
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?Luckyguy1983 said:
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.SouthamObserver said:
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.Innocent_Abroad said:
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
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Mr. JEO, Liechtenstein? It's only a few square miles. Their population couldn't even fill Old Trafford.
Mr. Foxinsox, Facebook can be used in many ways. As for LinkedIn/work, are we saying that workplaces must never have social interactions? Be a damned dreary world where telling someone their hair looks nice is not permitted between 9am and 5pm.0 -
I was born in 1980 so I missed most of this. Good of Labour to turn themselves into a re-enactment society.
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers/cover-5430 -
It's a pity Corbyn's economic policies are so dire: I much prefer his dress style to the car salesman suits which monopolise most of the (male) political spectrum.0
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Mr. Jessop, good quality analysis of the sartorial requirements of the zombie apocalypse.
Ever played The Last Of Us? I realise you probably have sod all time on your hands right now, but it's a fantastically good game [arguably the best ever made].0 -
I read that article and I came across this bit near the bottom: "... in a blog on the left-wing website Left Foot Forward, Ms Proudman wrote: 'The crux of the matter is that men live and work in a brutal society, which is maintained through stratified social order based on ritual humiliation, gentleman's clubs, fights, rites of passage, sexism, and banter."Plato said:She's been marvellously monstered by the Mail today - serves her right.
I find that view of the world completely alien. Perhaps, due to her work, she sees the worst side of humanity, but most men I have come across are not even remotely close to fitting that profile.0 -
Donkey Jackets are also fairly durable so should provide good bite resistance while flexible enough to allow wielding of cricket bats and other suitable anti-Zombie weaponry.JosiasJessop said:
The shoulder padding might stop chaffing when using a shoulder-mounted RPG, and the elbow pads would also be more comfortable when shooting from a prone position.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, you've failed to address the substantive point. Would donkey jackets be appropriate for a zombie apocalypse?
And the bulk of the jacket could hide lots of spare weapons and ammo. So, for winter, it'd be good.
I think a fairly sound choice.0
