PB spends a good proportion of it's time complaining about careerist PPE clones in smart but empty suits dominating politics.
Then the moment something different crops up, it complains about the lack of said smart empty suit.
The PPE clones in suits are a symptom, not the disease itself. Corbyn in a suit would still fail but his refusal to fit the image of a politician will reinforce the negative opinion of people who want and expect politicians to look like, well, politicians.
The electorate are tolerant but they will not tolerate a threat to national security and that is how the Tories are going to present him ...the Panorama expose is just a mere hint of what is to come ...Corbyn is just too old and set in his ways to ever change , even if he wished to ..he's just two dimensional , too ''authentic '' too much convictions ...I expect him to be forced to resign within a few months
I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
Ditto.
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake. Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
As I say, I think he respects them as individuals. But I imagine he holds Britain equally as responsible as Germany for the outbreak of the war; and I have no doubt he has very little time at all four our armed services as institutions.
He may also wear a white poppy to Remembrance Sunday if he becomes leader as expected it was reported yesterday. The FrontPage of the Times today says Corbyn has questioned the drone strike and said he would not have authorised it
If I were Cammo, I'd suggest to HMQ that she reminds everyone to wear red ones...
Yes shrewd if Corbyn does win
People who wear white poppies are always amazed that anyone can be offended by it, and don't understand why everyone doesn't want peace, man.
If 70s fashion becomes the in thing, I could finally dust off the wedding photos and let them see the light of day.
I remember voting Labour in 1983 despite Foot. But at least, he was patriotic and had some intellectual weight. A scruffy bastard to be sure, but in a nerdy lecturer way.
Jezza will be remembered for his vest and hatred of all things American, not in a nostalgic way.
I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
Ditto.
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake. Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
As I say, I think he respects them as individuals. But I imagine he holds Britain equally as responsible as Germany for the outbreak of the war; and I have no doubt he has very little time at all four our armed services as institutions.
Agreed; he is anti-war (his sincerity is unquestionable) and so would have resisted intervention in Poland and as he resists intervention in Syria.
With regards to the armed forces, I imagine the feeling is mutual!
Scratch a patriot and you will find a racist. Always. Everywhere - look at the current governments of Japan and India. At least Da'esh and the like make no secret of their belief that God prefers Arabs to other people.
Innocent is a bit of a troll - he likes to wind us all up, both left and right. But to respond seriously - there is a difference between feeling more affection and responsibility for people close to you than others, and wanting that to be a bedrock of Government policy. Most of us put our families before others and are fond of Britain, but that doesn't mean that we would say that Britain should rule the world, any more than I'd want the Government to tailor nursing home policy for the convenience of my aunt. A fair government that gives us all a reasonable chance (naturally views will differ on the details of that) and enough space to look after those we care about will do fine for most of us, left and right.
Corbyn has never provided any indication that he is fond of Britain. Patriotism does not equate to believing Britain should rule the world.
Betting observation. Most voters vote for what looks like a competent government Leader. Being scruffy creates for most voters the appearance of incompetence. TSE is right, but this is just the start.
Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.
PB spends a good proportion of it's time complaining about careerist PPE clones in smart but empty suits dominating politics.
Then the moment something different crops up, it complains about the lack of said smart empty suit.
The PPE clones in suits are a symptom, not the disease itself. Corbyn in a suit would still fail but his refusal to fit the image of a politician will reinforce the negative opinion of people who want and expect politicians to look like, well, politicians.
They want them to look competent. Being unable to dress in a smart manner exudes incompetence to most voters.
Corbyn is not like M Foot who was a serious political heavyweight , a talented writer , speaker and intellectual with front bench ministerial experience and anti Nazi resume ...oh no , Corbyn is not even a pound shop M Foot ,he's merely a M Foot garden gnome
And a fat lot of good it did him. The anti-Foot vitriol in the press at the 83 election was at fever pitch. I think the fact that we only have pygmies in all parties now is a lot to do with the way the press behaves.
PB spends a good proportion of it's time complaining about careerist PPE clones in smart but empty suits dominating politics.
Then the moment something different crops up, it complains about the lack of said smart empty suit.
The PPE clones in suits are a symptom, not the disease itself. Corbyn in a suit would still fail but his refusal to fit the image of a politician will reinforce the negative opinion of people who want and expect politicians to look like, well, politicians.
It's the scruffiness actually. Varafoukis is a good example of how you can be a politician but not wear an M&S suit (or the Greek alternative) but still look respectable. We live in an age where suits are no longer required for most jobs, but one is expected to look smart and respectable. A politician in jeans, an open necked shirt and a jacket would be immediately accepted (though not at the cenotaph obv.). Corbyn just looks a mess.
Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.
I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
Ditto.
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake. Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
As I say, I think he respects them as individuals. But I imagine he holds Britain equally as responsible as Germany for the outbreak of the war; and I have no doubt he has very little time at all four our armed services as institutions.
The key there is 'I imagine'. You are erecting a straw man of your own prejudice.
Re the Zombie Apocolypse...a relative here lives in a moated castle...which has a drawbridge ..that is in working condition....lots of apartments in there...just in case..
He may also wear a white poppy to Remembrance Sunday if he becomes leader as expected it was reported yesterday. The FrontPage of the Times today says Corbyn has questioned the drone strike and said he would not have authorised it
If I were Cammo, I'd suggest to HMQ that she reminds everyone to wear red ones...
I do not think Corbyn will be inclined to listen to advice from HM and her courtiers.
Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.
Why is the left against Globalisation?
Parts of the left are; as are parts of the right.
why are parts of the left against it? It seems ridiculous that a mechanism which has lifted many of the poorest people out of poverty should be anything other than Article No.1 in any left-leaning manifesto.
The only conclusion I can reach is that it is exploitative MNCs abusing the various indigenous populations: an absurd notion given the many many indigenous companies benefiting from it.
So I ask again: why are (parts of) the left against globalisation?
"His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake."
Very Citizen Smith and very sixties/seventies speak. Everyone who isn't totally for you is a fascist and that includes social democrats and liberals. That's why they splinter into so many different groups each with their own version of purity.
I suspect Dr Palmer has his tongue in his cheek too while he relives his childhood. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
Jezza is detritus, washed along the beach and left stranded by the march of history.
I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
Ditto.
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake. Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
As I say, I think he respects them as individuals. But I imagine he holds Britain equally as responsible as Germany for the outbreak of the war; and I have no doubt he has very little time at all four our armed services as institutions.
The key there is 'I imagine'. You are erecting a straw man of your own prejudice.
Of course. I have a view and I express it. I believe Corbyn's history of activism, those he has associated with and his oft-expressed opinions support my view of him as an anti-capitalist, anti-western, class warrior with no regard for the UK or its history. We'll find out if I am wrong soon enough.
Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.
Why is the left against Globalisation?
Because it is antithetical to democracy within nations, and ensures a race to the bottom for worker's rights and environmental regulation. I'm all for global regulation of these things, and would be more than happy for free trade with countries that have the same level of protection in these areas.
"His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake."
Very Citizen Smith and very sixties/seventies speak. Everyone who isn't totally for you is a fascist and that includes social democrats and liberals. That's why they splinter into so many different groups each with their own version of purity.
I suspect Dr Palmer has his tongue in his cheek too while he relives his childhood. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
Jezza is detritus, washed along the beach and left stranded by the march of history.
I think the clue was in the name - British Union of Fascists
Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.
Why is the left against Globalisation?
Because it is antithetical to democracy within nations, and ensures a race to the bottom for worker's rights and environmental regulation. I'm all for global regulation of these things, and would be more than happy for free trade with countries that have the same level of protection in these areas.
So you would rather China didn't export anything to the west? But wait...China is...a left-wing country. One of the most left-wing countries. With hitherto (and still ongoing) grinding poverty that globalisation has helped to alleviate.
But you would wait? For what? And when do you expect it to happen? I mean in the real world. Not in your late night student drinking session after the Uni has closed (do they close these days?). And yes I know, you are a small businessman. Not importing any intermediates from LDCs, I trust.
Because it is antithetical to democracy within nations, and ensures a race to the bottom for worker's rights and environmental regulation. I'm all for global regulation of these things, and would be more than happy for free trade with countries that have the same level of protection in these areas.
An entire legitimate position, but one that holds it has no grounds to call pro-trade Eurosceptics "little Englanders".
I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
Ditto.
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake. Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
As I say, I think he respects them as individuals. But I imagine he holds Britain equally as responsible as Germany for the outbreak of the war; and I have no doubt he has very little time at all four our armed services as institutions.
The key there is 'I imagine'. You are erecting a straw man of your own prejudice.
It will still be a political problem whether it's true or not, if most of the country imagines it too.
I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
Ditto.
I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.
I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.
Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.
If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.
You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake. Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.
Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
Interesting that he doesn't condemn Russia's actually imperialist war in Ukraine then.
Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.
Because caring about your fellow countrymen has nothing to do with race.
The difference between migrants and refugees is quite striking. One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies. The refugees often comprise of families, children, the old, fleeing through fear of their lives. Obviously, Europe has a moral obligation to accept these, but economically, they are likely to be a pull on resources until the children are old enough to enter the workforce.
But the whole narrative used by politicians- "we need to provide a place of refuge to genuine refugees but return economic migrants" is basically flawed. In terms of hard economics it would be much better for Europe to accept the economic migrants and return the refugees.
Yesterday I went to Menton on the Italian Franch border and saw my first African migrants. They were only a trickle snaking their way from the largely unguarded border post and along the promenade. They wore black tracksuits trainers and heavy backpacks the locals Gucci sandals Prada shorts and Louis Vuiton bags. As the migrants marched along past the cafes in the Old Town heads down looking at the pavement the residents seemed oblivious.
I found it really moving. They had more than likely had horrendous journeys and here they were beside one of the most fashionable waterfronts in the world with no idea of their destination. They'd likely been travelling for weeks or even months. I thought they could at least sleep on the beach though realistically there was no chance and their next stop was Monaco where there was even less chance.
They really needed money and some guidance. If someone could just organize I'm sure there are plenty of people with buckets of money who would like to help. It is an absolute imperative. Europe is not short of resources. People just need to have their eyes opened.
Migrants and refugees are not exclusive groups. If you have been forced to leave your country, you are a refugee. If you are moving from one country to another, you are a migrant.
Those refugees that are crossing Europe are still migrants.
Agreed; he is anti-war (his sincerity is unquestionable) and so would have resisted intervention in Poland and as he resists intervention in Syria.
With regards to the armed forces, I imagine the feeling is mutual!
On the other hand, he would probably have also resisted leaping into war with the Kaiser with wild abandon in 1914, a war that was both a human catastrophe and the end of Britain as the dominant world power. People like him also opposed Vietnam - would you have liked to go into that one? You seem to have 'Munich syndrome' as identified by Peter Hitchens - the believe that all tyrants are Hitler, and the date is always September 1938. There are many wars where it was far more in the national interest to stay out, whether we did or not, and it is by no means the patriotic thing to always be an armchair warrior - though such people always wrap themselves in the flag. http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9622092/forget-chilcot-heres-the-inquiry-we-really-need/
Yup, and coalmen, and lots of builders/groundworkers [those had Dayglo orange shoulders]. Weren't they made of wool and waterproofed too as the ultimate outdoors working coat?
I remember when studenty types started to wear them as a fashion statement and thinking how silly they looked. Then again students wore Greatcoats back then too.
"I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context."
You young 'uns. They were very popular in the day and very practical. Very hard wearing and you could get leather padding on the shoulders for carrying things. Bin men always had them. And I had one once.
Agreed; he is anti-war (his sincerity is unquestionable) and so would have resisted intervention in Poland and as he resists intervention in Syria.
With regards to the armed forces, I imagine the feeling is mutual!
On the other hand, he would probably have also resisted leaping into war with the Kaiser with wild abandon in 1914, a war that was both a human catastrophe and the end of Britain as the dominant world power. People like him also opposed Vietnam - would you have liked to go into that one? You seem to have 'Munich syndrome' as identified by Peter Hitchens - the believe that all tyrants are Hitler, and the date is always September 1938. There are many wars where it was far more in the national interest to stay out, whether we did or not, and it is by no means the patriotic thing to always be an armchair warrior - though such people always wrap themselves in the flag. http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9622092/forget-chilcot-heres-the-inquiry-we-really-need/
Yup, and coalmen, and lots of builders/groundworkers [those had Dayglo orange shoulders]. Weren't they made of wool and waterproofed too as the ultimate outdoors working coat?
I remember when studenty types started to wear them as a fashion statement and thinking how silly they looked. Then again students wore Greatcoats back then too.
"I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context."
You young 'uns. They were very popular in the day and very practical. Very hard wearing and you could get leather padding on the shoulders for carrying things. Bin men always had them. And I had one once.
Us 80s students mainly either wore these jackets, greatcoats or ex-army stuff. Apart from the few remaining New Romantics.
@ZoraSuleman: It's reported the sitcom Citizen Smith, starring Robert Lyndsey, is to return.
Perhaps that ghastly lefty hypocrite lawyer why slagged off a colleague for complimenting her on linked in should star in it. She would be perfect. She needs to take down her Facebook account.. its so easy to see hypocrisy.
mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.
@RorySmithTimes: My Venn diagram showing relation of those who say "help our own first" & those who get upset about "soft" benefits. http://t.co/gc0r5UlI4N
I wore a donkey jacket in the 80's and wore red socks- a look I was rather quite pleased with. Now after reading Plato's posts I realise why I wasn't particularly successful with the girls....they must have thought I looked rather silly.
Yup, and coalmen, and lots of builders/groundworkers [those had Dayglo orange shoulders]. Weren't they made of wool and waterproofed too as the ultimate outdoors working coat?
I remember when studenty types started to wear them as a fashion statement and thinking how silly they looked. Then again students wore Greatcoats back then too.
"I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context."
You young 'uns. They were very popular in the day and very practical. Very hard wearing and you could get leather padding on the shoulders for carrying things. Bin men always had them. And I had one once.
Us 80s students mainly either wore these jackets, greatcoats or ex-army stuff. Apart from the few remaining New Romantics.
Yup, and coalmen, and lots of builders/groundworkers [those had Dayglo orange shoulders]. Weren't they made of wool and waterproofed too as the ultimate outdoors working coat?
I remember when studenty types started to wear them as a fashion statement and thinking how silly they looked. Then again students wore Greatcoats back then too.
"I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context."
You young 'uns. They were very popular in the day and very practical. Very hard wearing and you could get leather padding on the shoulders for carrying things. Bin men always had them. And I had one once.
mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.
Someone should be encouraging the Spanish to head to Germany.
Besides, many of the migrants don't have work uppermost in their minds but the expected gifts that 'generous Europeans' will bestow on them such as houses, and women. One only has to listen to the various interviews with the travellers that the BBC are pumping out across the airwaves to work that out.
SSC Before one wades out into that fast flowing media stream it is wise to work out where the shallows are and where the deep dark pools may be...which should be avoided..
Agreed; he is anti-war (his sincerity is unquestionable) and so would have resisted intervention in Poland and as he resists intervention in Syria.
With regards to the armed forces, I imagine the feeling is mutual!
On the other hand, he would probably have also resisted leaping into war with the Kaiser with wild abandon in 1914, a war that was both a human catastrophe and the end of Britain as the dominant world power. People like him also opposed Vietnam - would you have liked to go into that one? You seem to have 'Munich syndrome' as identified by Peter Hitchens - the believe that all tyrants are Hitler, and the date is always September 1938. There are many wars where it was far more in the national interest to stay out, whether we did or not, and it is by no means the patriotic thing to always be an armchair warrior - though such people always wrap themselves in the flag. http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9622092/forget-chilcot-heres-the-inquiry-we-really-need/
I'm a hippy peacenik myself so I'm not saying I wouldn't agree with him.
But there is the question of judgement - could you imagine JC having stayed out of all those other wars but then getting it right with Hitler?
Spain's economy is a basket case....the 50% youth unemployment is masked by the black economy.
We only have to compare and contrast the US to Japan to appreciate what economic migration does. One is youthful and vibrant.....and the other is stagnant and ageing.
mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.
mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.
The 50% figure is not accurate. Spain's problem is partly black economy, partly nepotism and also general corruption.
mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.
Someone should be encouraging the Spanish to head to Germany.
Besides, many of the migrants don't have work uppermost in their minds but the expected gifts that 'generous Europeans' will bestow on them such as houses, and women. One only has to listen to the various interviews with the travellers that the BBC are pumping out across the airwaves to work that out.
Huge numbers already have - and to the UK. not a long-term solution for a healthy Spain however.
My timeline has been packed with Mrs Mensch going berserk about it and backing Ms Proudman [who changed her name to that two years ago...].
It was the exact opposite of what I expected. Frankly, I wouldn't want to work with Charlotte - and imagine being stuck in a lift with her.
Her whole confected outrage just looks like a trap to catch some poor nit on LinkedIn, so she could shout about it. I wonder how many she invited to join her network? No wonder a few solicitors are now refusing to send her work.
Yet. There will come time when Germany says enough is enough. The Hungarian PM is the voice of common sense in this mess.
I saw police hitting migrants/refuges with batons on the news last night, its only a matter of time before something far worse occurs. First it was tripping up, then batons, then.....
Her whole confected outrage just looks like a trap to catch some poor nit on LinkedIn, so she could shout about it. I wonder how many she invited to join her network? No wonder a few solicitors are now refusing to send her work.
She has managed to demonstrate that she would take offence at a manufactured slight, and put private matters into the public domain with a flimsy excuse when it suits her purposes.
A good article. The media will be lining up to find fault so he his team will have to make sure he behaves appropriately. It is going to be a massive media barrage he could face with not only the right-wing media against him but the Guardian and BBC
Mr Tyson ...wrong..there are some towns in Italy that are being overrun by migrants..mainly young men who live in hostels and sleep around the open spaces all day.. the crime rate in some areas has also shot up..which may or may not be a consequence of this.. Even where I live there seems to be some small turf wars breaking out even in supermarket car parks..as to who or what gang will control the trolley return rights..from small beginnings..
Someone noticed that she waited a whole 11 minutes between firing off her rebuke to the chappy and publishing her outrage. That included writing it, taking the pic of the message...
She clearly wasn't interested in hearing his response.
Her whole confected outrage just looks like a trap to catch some poor nit on LinkedIn, so she could shout about it. I wonder how many she invited to join her network? No wonder a few solicitors are now refusing to send her work.
She has managed to demonstrate that she would take offence at a manufactured slight, and put private matters into the public domain with a flimsy excuse when it suits her purposes.
A good article. The media will be lining up to find fault so he his team will have to make sure he behaves appropriately. It is going to be a massive media barrage he could face with not only the right-wing media against him but the Guardian and BBC
Nothing Corbyn says, does or wears can make him remotely electable to the British public.
True, but he really should make half an effort as to his appearance. The Leader of Her Majestey's Loyal Opposition should present himself appropriately for the gravity of that office.
If he is going to dinner with the Queen next month as was suggested yesterday, maybe the PM if not one of his better-dressed colleagues (Chuka, Tristam, Dan J etc.) might kindly assist him in how to tie a bow tie and which cutlery is used for which course.
Kudos to the first tailor in London to offer him a free suit for PMQs, or to the hairdresser that gives him a 'short back and sides' and something with the scraggly beard!!
On the important issue of the day: donkey jackets.
I last saw someone wearing one on a building site near here, either last winter or the one before.
So why have they disappeared? I'd guess 'elf and safety hasn't helped: they're not exactly high vis. Also, as clothing has become cheaper, you might as well buy something slightly trendier that you can throw away in a few months when it's tattered and torn from work. Also, as I remember, they were rather overly warm (then again, I generally feel warm anyway).
Michael Foot at the Cenotaph has some inexplicably totemic status in the in-laws household as the single most shocking political event of the last 40 years. In their version of events, he spent the entire time playing pocket billiards.
Having never seem the film of it myself - was he playing pocket billiards?
In any case, it looks they're going to be talking about Jezza for decades to come.
Spain's economy is a basket case....the 50% youth unemployment is masked by the black economy.
We only have to compare and contrast the US to Japan to appreciate what economic migration does. One is youthful and vibrant.....and the other is stagnant and ageing.
mr Tyson: One group, essentially the African migrants, mostly passing through Italy are young, eager and healthy- exactly what Europe requires to provide the cheap labour required to power our economies.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.
What does "vibrant" actually mean? It's one of those terms that seems to be thrown about a lot without any explanation of what it entails. I'm assuming "stagnant" means low growth, but Japan has had 2% GDP per capita for the last couple of years now. And a lot of their weakness comes from debt.
Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.
Miss Plato, fast typist, or prepared text ready to slot in the chap's name?
Ms Proudman makes an interesting distinction. Linkedin for professional purposes, Facebook for social things.
I am not on Linkedin, for a variety of reasons but principally because I do not like people trying to establish new "Old boy networks" for allocating work. It seems to me to be potentially discriminatory and against open competition. In a business like law in particular.
Mr. Jessop, you've failed to address the substantive point. Would donkey jackets be appropriate for a zombie apocalypse?
The shoulder padding might stop chaffing when using a shoulder-mounted RPG, and the elbow pads would also be more comfortable when shooting from a prone position.
And the bulk of the jacket could hide lots of spare weapons and ammo. So, for winter, it'd be good.
The ubiquitous Donkey Jacket..the perfect silent protest garment...comes in all colours and fabrics as long as it is in black and made of wool or cotton..silk by special order...who,d a thunk it..
Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.
Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?
Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.
Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.
Mr. JEO, Liechtenstein? It's only a few square miles. Their population couldn't even fill Old Trafford.
Mr. Foxinsox, Facebook can be used in many ways. As for LinkedIn/work, are we saying that workplaces must never have social interactions? Be a damned dreary world where telling someone their hair looks nice is not permitted between 9am and 5pm.
It's a pity Corbyn's economic policies are so dire: I much prefer his dress style to the car salesman suits which monopolise most of the (male) political spectrum.
Mr. Jessop, good quality analysis of the sartorial requirements of the zombie apocalypse.
Ever played The Last Of Us? I realise you probably have sod all time on your hands right now, but it's a fantastically good game [arguably the best ever made].
She's been marvellously monstered by the Mail today - serves her right.
I read that article and I came across this bit near the bottom: "... in a blog on the left-wing website Left Foot Forward, Ms Proudman wrote: 'The crux of the matter is that men live and work in a brutal society, which is maintained through stratified social order based on ritual humiliation, gentleman's clubs, fights, rites of passage, sexism, and banter."
I find that view of the world completely alien. Perhaps, due to her work, she sees the worst side of humanity, but most men I have come across are not even remotely close to fitting that profile.
Mr. Jessop, you've failed to address the substantive point. Would donkey jackets be appropriate for a zombie apocalypse?
The shoulder padding might stop chaffing when using a shoulder-mounted RPG, and the elbow pads would also be more comfortable when shooting from a prone position.
And the bulk of the jacket could hide lots of spare weapons and ammo. So, for winter, it'd be good.
Donkey Jackets are also fairly durable so should provide good bite resistance while flexible enough to allow wielding of cricket bats and other suitable anti-Zombie weaponry.
Comments
I remember voting Labour in 1983 despite Foot. But at least, he was patriotic and had some intellectual weight. A scruffy bastard to be sure, but in a nerdy lecturer way.
Jezza will be remembered for his vest and hatred of all things American, not in a nostalgic way.
With regards to the armed forces, I imagine the feeling is mutual!
Most voters vote for what looks like a competent government Leader.
Being scruffy creates for most voters the appearance of incompetence.
TSE is right, but this is just the start.
Jezza- well, when he speaks he kind of lulls you into a snooze.
You are erecting a straw man of your own prejudice.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CRCkoA0AL._SX342_.jpg
The only conclusion I can reach is that it is exploitative MNCs abusing the various indigenous populations: an absurd notion given the many many indigenous companies benefiting from it.
So I ask again: why are (parts of) the left against globalisation?
"His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake."
Very Citizen Smith and very sixties/seventies speak. Everyone who isn't totally for you is a fascist and that includes social democrats and liberals. That's why they splinter into so many different groups each with their own version of purity.
I suspect Dr Palmer has his tongue in his cheek too while he relives his childhood. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
Jezza is detritus, washed along the beach and left stranded by the march of history.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9721072/Britain-is-well-prepared-to-fight-apocalyptic-zombie-invasion.html
No doubt George would use his usual genius to resolve the issue.
"I think the clue was in the name - British Union of Fascists."
How about Ukip? How about Liz Kendall? Just fellow travellers?
A visit to the Royal Armouries for some chainmail and weapons could be a shrewd move.
But you would wait? For what? And when do you expect it to happen? I mean in the real world. Not in your late night student drinking session after the Uni has closed (do they close these days?). And yes I know, you are a small businessman. Not importing any intermediates from LDCs, I trust.
But the whole narrative used by politicians- "we need to provide a place of refuge to genuine refugees but return economic migrants" is basically flawed. In terms of hard economics it would be much better for Europe to accept the economic migrants and return the refugees.
Those refugees that are crossing Europe are still migrants.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9622092/forget-chilcot-heres-the-inquiry-we-really-need/
I remember when studenty types started to wear them as a fashion statement and thinking how silly they looked. Then again students wore Greatcoats back then too.
: #Corbyn, #Trump, #Brexit & #indyref2 - by end of 2016
@stephenkb: Just realised: when Corbyn beats Burnham, Labour will have picked an option considered too crazy for Eoin Clarke.
Spain has 50% of its youngsters unemployed, I'm not sure how importing cheap labour helps the situation.
Mr. Eagles, interesting accumulator. I think Trump's the least likely, and a second independence vote by 2016 also very long odds.
Besides, many of the migrants don't have work uppermost in their minds but the expected gifts that 'generous Europeans' will bestow on them such as houses, and women. One only has to listen to the various interviews with the travellers that the BBC are pumping out across the airwaves to work that out.
But there is the question of judgement - could you imagine JC having stayed out of all those other wars but then getting it right with Hitler?
https://twitter.com/MarkHopkins123/status/642257596540420096
We only have to compare and contrast the US to Japan to appreciate what economic migration does. One is youthful and vibrant.....and the other is stagnant and ageing.
My timeline has been packed with Mrs Mensch going berserk about it and backing Ms Proudman [who changed her name to that two years ago...].
It was the exact opposite of what I expected. Frankly, I wouldn't want to work with Charlotte - and imagine being stuck in a lift with her.
Her whole confected outrage just looks like a trap to catch some poor nit on LinkedIn, so she could shout about it. I wonder how many she invited to join her network? No wonder a few solicitors are now refusing to send her work.
Anybody who cannot foresee the problems with hundreds of thousands of mainly young men entering into a different country is being naïve.
I was also surprised to see Mensch was supporting Proudman.
I saw police hitting migrants/refuges with batons on the news last night, its only a matter of time before something far worse occurs. First it was tripping up, then batons, then.....
Oh but we need them, I hear you cry. We'll see.
Would you trust this person for a legal matter?
She clearly wasn't interested in hearing his response.
After the canned sunshine they lobbed at Corbyn via Panorama, I get the impression they aren't very keen on him...
If he is going to dinner with the Queen next month as was suggested yesterday, maybe the PM if not one of his better-dressed colleagues (Chuka, Tristam, Dan J etc.) might kindly assist him in how to tie a bow tie and which cutlery is used for which course.
Kudos to the first tailor in London to offer him a free suit for PMQs, or to the hairdresser that gives him a 'short back and sides' and something with the scraggly beard!!
I last saw someone wearing one on a building site near here, either last winter or the one before.
So why have they disappeared? I'd guess 'elf and safety hasn't helped: they're not exactly high vis. Also, as clothing has become cheaper, you might as well buy something slightly trendier that you can throw away in a few months when it's tattered and torn from work. Also, as I remember, they were rather overly warm (then again, I generally feel warm anyway).
Having never seem the film of it myself - was he playing pocket billiards?
In any case, it looks they're going to be talking about Jezza for decades to come.
I am not on Linkedin, for a variety of reasons but principally because I do not like people trying to establish new "Old boy networks" for allocating work. It seems to me to be potentially discriminatory and against open competition. In a business like law in particular.
https://euobserver.com/migration/130186
And the bulk of the jacket could hide lots of spare weapons and ammo. So, for winter, it'd be good.
Mr. Foxinsox, Facebook can be used in many ways. As for LinkedIn/work, are we saying that workplaces must never have social interactions? Be a damned dreary world where telling someone their hair looks nice is not permitted between 9am and 5pm.
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers/cover-543
Ever played The Last Of Us? I realise you probably have sod all time on your hands right now, but it's a fantastically good game [arguably the best ever made].
I find that view of the world completely alien. Perhaps, due to her work, she sees the worst side of humanity, but most men I have come across are not even remotely close to fitting that profile.
I think a fairly sound choice.