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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some fashion advice for Jeremy Corbyn

SystemSystem Posts: 12,220
edited September 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some fashion advice for Jeremy Corbyn

If as expected Labour elect Jeremy Corbyn, his first official appearance as Leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition won’t be Prime Minister’s Questions next Wednesday but a day earlier when the new Labour Leader should be attending a commemoration of the seventy-fifth anniversary of the Battle of Britain alongside David Cameron and others.

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Comments

  • Fashion tips on PB.Com by TSE? – The world’s gone mad. :lol:
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Fashion tips on PB.Com by TSE? – The world’s gone mad. :lol:

    It's wrong on sooooo many levels!
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Fashion item for Jezza - Surely it must be red, red and red again ....

    Someone on PB must be able to donate some red items ....shoes perhaps ?!? .... :smile:
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.
  • JohnLoony said:

    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.

    In one way it's strange that the Donkey Jacket-that-wasn't has become the symbol of that even but in another, it's not. Something always tends to become shorthand for that kind of gaffe and in this case it was the coat.

    But really, just look at the picture: two layers of clothing undone and hanging at all sorts of angles, a big fat checked tie dangling loose over his trousers, hair at all angles. He simply looks scruffy. That some of this might have been normal for him is beside the point: that normal wasn't good enough.

    The comparison with not just Thatcher to his right but with Steele and ex-PM Lord Home to his left:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47407000/jpg/_47407710_008880849-1.jpg
  • Naught but PB Tory Herd Propaganda!

    :lol:
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
  • Be afraid:

    70s man Corbyn and his acolytes could make bell bottoms and kipper ties look trendy again.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ZoraSuleman: It's reported the sitcom Citizen Smith, starring Robert Lyndsey, is to return.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
    Not true of Conservatives.

    They always prefer eating other people's babies to their own.

  • I saw Corbyn in Parliament on Tues and he looked like a tramp, trousers and suit jacket didn't match and it was totally oversized. I don't think he knows any other way.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
    It's not about preference but responsibility. The British Government has a responsibility to its people. Simple as that.
  • On topic, how or even whether Corbyn reconciles the usual constraints placed on political leaders, with his own political habits is one of the biggest unknowns about his leadership, assuming he wins.

    Those constraints exist for a reason: they are borne out of decades of experience about what indulgences go down badly with the public and are consequently best avoided. Corbyn has never avoided them in his life. On the contrary, he has gone out of his way to engage in stunts that he must have known would be controversial even for a backbench MP. But the attention paid to a party leader is many times greater, the leeway for errors of judgement many times narrower and the level of criticism handed out if those lines are crossed far more intense. After all, we are not talking about a single individual maverick but the personification of an entire party and potential prime minister.

    His history would suggest that Corbyn won't take fashion advice from TSE or anyone else. Nor is he likely to moderate his views. He has been exceptionally and refreshingly open in interviews on giving his opinion on pretty much any topic and - assuming he wins - will feel justified in doing so. Criticism is not always bad: it can mean your opponents fear you. While it would be a mistake for Corbyn to draw that lesson, you can see why he might in the light of the surge that would have propelled him to the leadership over precisely that kind of comment.

    In any case, Corbyn would revel in some of the criticism and regard it instead as accurate comment. "Unpatriotic"? Absolutely: patriotism is the refuge of scoundrels.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    woody662 said:

    I saw Corbyn in Parliament on Tues and he looked like a tramp, trousers and suit jacket didn't match and it was totally oversized. I don't think he knows any other way.

    Did you give Jezza some spare change ?

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Scott_P said:

    @ZoraSuleman: It's reported the sitcom Citizen Smith, starring Robert Lyndsey, is to return.

    Presumably as a documentary chronicling the next year of the Labour party.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @Dair FPT

    There are two types of people in this country - those that pay their tax and follow the rules, and those that do well for themselves and their families.

    I'd humbly suggest you are doing something wrong.

    It is perfectly possible to pay your tax, follow the rules, and do well for yourself and your family
  • tlg86 said:

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
    It's not about preference but responsibility. The British Government has a responsibility to its people. Simple as that.
    Does not Maastricht mean that its responsibility extends further than that? Did not right-wingers in the 1960s claim that "its people" included whites in southern Africa - people who had actively chosen not to live in the UK?

    Scratch a patriot and you will find a racist. Always. Everywhere - look at the current governments of Japan and India. At least Da'esh and the like make no secret of their belief that God prefers Arabs to other people.

  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
    Anyone who doesn't prefer their own children to other peoples either has something deeply wrong with them or something deeply wrong with their children.
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
    Anyone who doesn't prefer their own children to other peoples either has something deeply wrong with them or something deeply wrong with their children.
    I agree with you: that is the human condition. We are programmed to be wicked. We do not however need to carry that wickedness over into our politics.



  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175

    Naught but PB Tory Herd Propaganda!

    :lol:

    I understood references to 'herds' were not allowed.
    Charles said:

    @Dair FPT

    There are two types of people in this country - those that pay their tax and follow the rules, and those that do well for themselves and their families.

    I'd humbly suggest you are doing something wrong.

    It is perfectly possible to pay your tax, follow the rules, and do well for yourself and your family

    Quite I certainly do exactly that.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    tlg86 said:

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
    It's not about preference but responsibility. The British Government has a responsibility to its people. Simple as that.
    Does not Maastricht mean that its responsibility extends further than that? Did not right-wingers in the 1960s claim that "its people" included whites in southern Africa - people who had actively chosen not to live in the UK?

    Scratch a patriot and you will find a racist. Always. Everywhere - look at the current governments of Japan and India. At least Da'esh and the like make no secret of their belief that God prefers Arabs to other people.

    IA is a sell out Tory. A pure leftie goes beyond races and has equal feelings about all species - a cats life is as equal as a baby human.

    Especially if that baby is white and British - then the cat is more equal. All animals should be receiving a vote and benefits.
  • Corbyn is a two dimensional quasi Marxist ; he just cannot be anything other than what he is
    He is going to make the Labour brand toxic within a few months
    Furthermore , he does so remind me of Gandhi in his mindless pacifism , after all it was Gandhi who , during the dark days of WW2 , pronounced that Britain should take the ''moral high ground '' , not fight Hitler militarily but should practice non violent resistance like he had with the British in India ...hmmmm I wonder how that would have turned out ?
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

  • woody662 said:

    I saw Corbyn in Parliament on Tues and he looked like a tramp, trousers and suit jacket didn't match and it was totally oversized. I don't think he knows any other way.

    THATS ABOUT RIGHT ...he's a Don Quioxte pining for a romantic bygone era , searching for crusades to fight and dragons to slay , but only managing to tilt at windmills

    In retrospect , it all comes into clear focus , the LP is a sinking ship of fools , who better to fly the Red flag in pride and resistance before finally sinking beneath the waves ?
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    You've lost me. Are you saying that he ought to feel it, even though it's not a virtue, or that he should pretend to when he doesn't? Either way it explains why we have such a low opinion of politicians - it's because we get the ones we deserve, the ones like ourselves.

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited September 2015
    JohnLoony said:

    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.

    It was the kind of thing that navvies or lorry drivers used to wear before the orange hi-vis stuff came in vogue. Dark, with leather patches.

    What Foot wore in 1981 at the Cenotaph was not a donkey-jacket.

    However Foot did wear a donkey-jacket on earlier occasions, so I guess lazy journalists just conflated the two.

    Foot in a donkey-jacket...

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/03/04/article-1255300-088CAFB1000005DC-176_468x506.jpg
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    I suspect Mr Abroad is selective in his criticism of patriots. If England are beaten by an African nation and the African supporters celebrate in the street he won't see that as being racist or wicked.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,979
    Presumably Corbyn will cycle to the BoB commemoration? Bicycle clips will be the new donkey jacket....
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    I suspect Mr Abroad is selective in his criticism of patriots. If England are beaten by an African nation and the African supporters celebrate in the street he won't see that as being racist or wicked.

    I don't know which sport you're referring to, but I certainly enjoy England beating Australia at cricket. At least the players know to have a bevvy with each other after the game.

    Of course I expect Peebies to attribute to me views I don't hold - if you could refute the ones I do, I suppose you would. There's a conclusion in there somewhere if only I could catch hold of it...

  • Scratch a patriot and you will find a racist. Always.

    Only in the Avenue Q sense of the word.
  • Corbyn is not like M Foot who was a serious political heavyweight , a talented writer , speaker and intellectual with front bench ministerial experience and anti Nazi resume ...oh no , Corbyn is not even a pound shop M Foot ,he's merely a M Foot garden gnome
  • felix said:

    Naught but PB Tory Herd Propaganda!

    :lol:

    I understood references to 'herds' were not allowed.
    Sunil is a PB institution. :)
  • I have seen the vitriol aimed at Corbyn and wonder if Tories are as happy with him in charge as they claim to be. There is an underclass Osborne has ripped off over the living wage story and rather than stay at home they might come out to vote.

    England has had a far lower turnout than Scotland recently, perhaps because Scots feel they have more options. If I was in England now I would not know who to vote for as the 3 main parties are mirror images of each other; or were until Corbyn gained momentum. That extra 8 to 10% if engaged who did not bother to vote are key to Labour success after boundary changes.

    I appreciate holding on to right wing of Labour and getting UKIP supporters back also important but first things first.
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,548

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
    If you were to claim that you care for all the world's children as much as you do for your own, it would mean in practice that you cared for none of the world's children, including your own.
  • Cromwell said:

    Corbyn is not like M Foot who was a serious political heavyweight , a talented writer , speaker and intellectual with front bench ministerial experience and anti Nazi resume ...oh no , Corbyn is not even a pound shop M Foot ,he's merely a M Foot garden gnome

    Michael Foot also didn't lead the Labour Party in the era of Twitter, Facebook and easily reproduced images (and easily-produced satirised images using the same theme).
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
    How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?

  • Scratch a patriot and you will find a racist. Always.

    Only in the Avenue Q sense of the word.
    I haven't seen that musical. Care to elucidate?

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,548

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
    Any kind of utopian society that tries to abolish ties of kinship becomes hell on earth.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,548

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
    How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?

    Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.
  • Sean_F said:

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
    If you were to claim that you care for all the world's children as much as you do for your own, it would mean in practice that you cared for none of the world's children, including your own.
    I don't claim that, and for just that reason. I do however regard my love for my children as a moral weakness. The difference between us is that you regard force majeure as a defence, I see it as either a defence or an excuse and I have no reliable rule-book to tell t'other from which.

  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Cromwell said:

    Corbyn is not like M Foot who was a serious political heavyweight , a talented writer , speaker and intellectual with front bench ministerial experience and anti Nazi resume ...oh no , Corbyn is not even a pound shop M Foot ,he's merely a M Foot garden gnome

    And a fat lot of good it did him. The anti-Foot vitriol in the press at the 83 election was at fever pitch. I think the fact that we only have pygmies in all parties now is a lot to do with the way the press behaves.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    1981 was a different era, anyhow. The Times would only have referred to people as "Mr. Foot" and "Mrs. Thatcher", for example, and we were still generally a small-c 'conservative' society.

    I don't think Foot's clothing per se was the problem. It was the poor man's generally shambolic demeanor, his waddling, shuffling gait, bizarre head posture, etc which rather unfairly made him a figure of ridicule. He just looked out of place amid the erect, disciplined ranks of other politicians at the Cenotaph.

    If anything, his tie was far "worse" than his coat...
  • Sean_F said:

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
    How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?

    Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.
    Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Morning all. Jeremy Corbyn has always dressed like a slightly bonkers science teacher, as has been evidenced in the HoC and on the campaign trail.

    One hopes that if elected LotO he will be dragged kicking and screaming by his minders to Savile Row and will turn up at these events suitably attired, as befits his office and the occasion.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,548

    Sean_F said:

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.
    How is "the same true of patriotism"? Are politicians parents and voters children?

    Patriotism is an extension of kinship. Decent people care for their kin, and want to hand on a decent place to live to their issue.
    Please explain why that is not a racist remark. Or perhaps you're like Da'esh - you think your own people better than others.

    If you define "racism" so broadly, then there's nothing morally wrong with racism.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040

    Sean_F said:

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.
    If you were to claim that you care for all the world's children as much as you do for your own, it would mean in practice that you cared for none of the world's children, including your own.
    I don't claim that, and for just that reason. I do however regard my love for my children as a moral weakness. The difference between us is that you regard force majeure as a defence, I see it as either a defence or an excuse and I have no reliable rule-book to tell t'other from which.

    Your love for your own children is a moral weakness? Seriously? With respect that is a bizarre view of the world.

    Scaling up the entirely natural and species enhancing love of our children to those firstly of our local community and beyond that to our country is also a good thing. Many bad things have been done in the name of nationalism but that does not make nationalism bad. We make progress by seeking to improve the lot of our families, our communities and our countries. As we should.
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.

    I'm sorry you aren't bright enough to have understood what I was saying.

  • But really, just look at the picture: two layers of clothing undone and hanging at all sorts of angles, a big fat checked tie dangling loose over his trousers, hair at all angles. He simply looks scruffy. That some of this might have been normal for him is beside the point: that normal wasn't good enough.

    The comparison with not just Thatcher to his right but with Steele and ex-PM Lord Home to his left:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47407000/jpg/_47407710_008880849-1.jpg

    He even seems to have managed to make his wreath lose any form it had.
  • I must be a terrible person. I'm fiercely patriotic and in a zombie apocalypse, I'd trip someone else's kids up, so that mine could escape!

    On topic. Corbyn will only be a disaster for Labour if the Blairites and centre left decide to cause problems. Of course he's unelectable, but it must be possible for the PLP to grit their teeth and work with him, and tread water to get past 2020 and then elect someone more creditable.
    It will be difficult. The press will slaughter him, and PMQs will be tasty. I just hope the Southam Observer wing of the party can pick up the pieces after 2020, or before if it all implodes early.
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.

    I'm sorry you aren't bright enough to have understood what I was saying.

    I missquoted, I was referring to Innocent_Abroad's comments. Sorry for the error, but I would have thought it was fairly obvious.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    JohnLoony said:

    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.

    Ditto.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,009
    He may also wear a white poppy to Remembrance Sunday if he becomes leader as expected it was reported yesterday. The FrontPage of the Times today says Corbyn has questioned the drone strike and said he would not have authorised it
  • HYUFD said:

    He may also wear a white poppy to Remembrance Sunday if he becomes leader as expected it was reported yesterday. The FrontPage of the Times today says Corbyn has questioned the drone strike and said he would not have authorised it

    If I were Cammo, I'd suggest to HMQ that she reminds everyone to wear red ones...

  • Corybn's too old to change his ways, and will instintivly reject anything which seems like spin or image managment

    Oh the fun and games which are going to start... it would hugely amusing if it wasn't so dangerous.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    kle4 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.

    Ditto.
    I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.

    I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.

    Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.

    If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Loony,

    "I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context."

    You young 'uns. They were very popular in the day and very practical. Very hard wearing and you could get leather padding on the shoulders for carrying things. Bin men always had them. And I had one once.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Glad the site seems to be back working.

    When do we learn the London mayoralty result for Labour?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Scott_P said:

    @ZoraSuleman: It's reported the sitcom Citizen Smith, starring Robert Lyndsey, is to return.

    Perhaps that ghastly lefty hypocrite lawyer why slagged off a colleague for complimenting her on linked in should star in it. She would be perfect. She needs to take down her Facebook account.. its so easy to see hypocrisy.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    No, that's the wealthy elite, who are loyal only to their kind, and have no care of borders.
  • Foot was a scruffy old git...batshit crazy...but he was ok. thank heaven no one like him could be leader of the Labour Party again....oops..
    .
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040

    Foot was a scruffy old git...batshit crazy...but he was ok. thank heaven no one like him could be leader of the Labour Party again....oops..
    .

    I disagree. Corbyn is not fit to clean Foot's slightly battered brogues.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2015
    Corbyn appears to prefer bicycle clips to the dreaded Lycra....so far that is the best thing about him...with a bit of training he might ascend to the sartorial dizzy heights of trousers tucked into long grey socks..wazzzo..
  • Scott_P said:

    @ZoraSuleman: It's reported the sitcom Citizen Smith, starring Robert Lyndsey, is to return.

    Perhaps that ghastly lefty hypocrite lawyer why slagged off a colleague for complimenting her on linked in should star in it. She would be perfect. She needs to take down her Facebook account.. its so easy to see hypocrisy.
    Citizen Smith is already back on our screens on a daily basis, he's just changed his name to Owen Jones
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Foot was regularly called Worzel Gummidge. I'm sure that will be up-dated for Jezza.

    I don't think sartorial elegance is necessary, but it's more to do with showing respect. Foot did make an attempt but somehow, I suspect Jezza will only pay lip service.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517
    JohnLoony said:

    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.

    JohnLoony said:

    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.

    RodCrosby said:

    JohnLoony said:

    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.

    It was the kind of thing that navvies or lorry drivers used to wear before the orange hi-vis stuff came in vogue. Dark, with leather patches.

    What Foot wore in 1981 at the Cenotaph was not a donkey-jacket.

    However Foot did wear a donkey-jacket on earlier occasions, so I guess lazy journalists just conflated the two.

    Foot in a donkey-jacket...

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/03/04/article-1255300-088CAFB1000005DC-176_468x506.jpg
    Exactly it is / was a common name from days gone bye. I still use it regularly , though not many "Donkey Jackets" around nowadays, still use it as an expression regarding opinion on items of clothing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040

    Scott_P said:

    @ZoraSuleman: It's reported the sitcom Citizen Smith, starring Robert Lyndsey, is to return.

    Perhaps that ghastly lefty hypocrite lawyer why slagged off a colleague for complimenting her on linked in should star in it. She would be perfect. She needs to take down her Facebook account.. its so easy to see hypocrisy.
    Citizen Smith is already back on our screens on a daily basis, he's just changed his name to Owen Jones
    Hmm... the memory plays tricks. I remember Citizen Smith being clever and funny. Are you sure?
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Glad the site seems to be back working.

    When do we learn the London mayoralty result for Labour?

    I've been told to expect it between midday and one pm. Though that may change.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    edited September 2015
    Talking about fashion....

    Yesterday I went to Menton on the Italian Franch border and saw my first African migrants. They were only a trickle snaking their way from the largely unguarded border post and along the promenade. They wore black tracksuits trainers and heavy backpacks the locals Gucci sandals Prada shorts and Louis Vuiton bags. As the migrants marched along past the cafes in the Old Town heads down looking at the pavement the residents seemed oblivious.

    I found it really moving. They had more than likely had horrendous journeys and here they were beside one of the most fashionable waterfronts in the world with no idea of their destination. They'd likely been travelling for weeks or even months. I thought they could at least sleep on the beach though realistically there was no chance and their next stop was Monaco where there was even less chance.

    They really needed money and some guidance. If someone could just organize I'm sure there are plenty of people with buckets of money who would like to help. It is an absolute imperative. Europe is not short of resources. People just need to have their eyes opened.

  • DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.

    Ditto.
    I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.

    I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.

    Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.

    If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.

    He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    PB spends a good proportion of it's time complaining about careerist PPE clones in smart but empty suits dominating politics.

    Then the moment something different crops up, it complains about the lack of said smart empty suit.





  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,572



    Scratch a patriot and you will find a racist. Always. Everywhere - look at the current governments of Japan and India. At least Da'esh and the like make no secret of their belief that God prefers Arabs to other people.

    Innocent is a bit of a troll - he likes to wind us all up, both left and right. But to respond seriously - there is a difference between feeling more affection and responsibility for people close to you than others, and wanting that to be a bedrock of Government policy. Most of us put our families before others and are fond of Britain, but that doesn't mean that we would say that Britain should rule the world, any more than I'd want the Government to tailor nursing home policy for the convenience of my aunt. A fair government that gives us all a reasonable chance (naturally views will differ on the details of that) and enough space to look after those we care about will do fine for most of us, left and right.
  • Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    Patriotism is not a virtue. It is simply an extension of the morally wicked practice of preferring one's own children to other people's.

    I agree it's not a virtue, but it is a commonly-held feeling, and generally a very positive one - except when it develops into nationalism. Corbyn doesn't feel it and is not capable of pretending to. His world view is very different to most people's.

    Loving one's children is not morally wicked, it is an essential part of the continuation of the species. It doesn't just involve partiality to ones own offspring either, it involves taking responsibility for them, nurturing them and at times chastising them, ensuring they achieve their full potential. The same is true of patriotism. Your attitude shows exactly why leftism is a disease on the body politic.

    I'm sorry you aren't bright enough to have understood what I was saying.

    I missquoted, I was referring to Innocent_Abroad's comments. Sorry for the error, but I would have thought it was fairly obvious.

    Fair enough - apologies for flying off the handle.

  • JohnLoony said:

    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_jacket
  • JWisemann said:

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    No, that's the wealthy elite, who are loyal only to their kind, and have no care of borders.

    Yep, I agree that there is an international, obscenely-moneyed elite that, like the hard left, has no real notion or understanding of patriotism. Wealth accumulation is all they are interested in.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517

    I must be a terrible person. I'm fiercely patriotic and in a zombie apocalypse, I'd trip someone else's kids up, so that mine could escape!

    On topic. Corbyn will only be a disaster for Labour if the Blairites and centre left decide to cause problems. Of course he's unelectable, but it must be possible for the PLP to grit their teeth and work with him, and tread water to get past 2020 and then elect someone more creditable.
    It will be difficult. The press will slaughter him, and PMQs will be tasty. I just hope the Southam Observer wing of the party can pick up the pieces after 2020, or before if it all implodes early.

    Who knows what will happen, most people are really hacked off with politician's and it is not inconceivable that lots of the people will take the hump with the Tories as they go ever more right wing. As we have seen with others you can be rank rotten and still make PM, the public are fickle and people are unsettled.
  • Roger you seem to have time on your hands... get organising.. tap up up a few rich layabouts..
  • Cheers, Mr. Eagles.

    Mr. Jonathan, an incomplete comment. If you get ham sandwiches for dinner every day, you might complain. It doesn't mean you'd welcome razorblade sandwiches as a change.
  • In the 70s in East Kent donkey jackets were quite the fashion, especially if they had NCB on the back of them. I used to wear a donkey jacket to do my paper round.
  • I must be a terrible person. I'm fiercely patriotic and in a zombie apocalypse, I'd trip someone else's kids up, so that mine could escape!

    On topic. Corbyn will only be a disaster for Labour if the Blairites and centre left decide to cause problems. Of course he's unelectable, but it must be possible for the PLP to grit their teeth and work with him, and tread water to get past 2020 and then elect someone more creditable.
    It will be difficult. The press will slaughter him, and PMQs will be tasty. I just hope the Southam Observer wing of the party can pick up the pieces after 2020, or before if it all implodes early.

    Re Zombie Apocalypse... I know exactly what you mean. Glad i'm not the only person who thinks about survival tactics in a zombie horde scenario.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.

    Ditto.
    I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.

    I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.

    Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.

    If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.
    He was wearing a duffel coat
  • HYUFD said:

    He may also wear a white poppy to Remembrance Sunday if he becomes leader as expected it was reported yesterday. The FrontPage of the Times today says Corbyn has questioned the drone strike and said he would not have authorised it

    If I were Cammo, I'd suggest to HMQ that she reminds everyone to wear red ones...

    If I were Cammo, I'd stay schtum.


  • Scratch a patriot and you will find a racist. Always. Everywhere - look at the current governments of Japan and India. At least Da'esh and the like make no secret of their belief that God prefers Arabs to other people.

    Innocent is a bit of a troll - he likes to wind us all up, both left and right. But to respond seriously - there is a difference between feeling more affection and responsibility for people close to you than others, and wanting that to be a bedrock of Government policy. Most of us put our families before others and are fond of Britain, but that doesn't mean that we would say that Britain should rule the world, any more than I'd want the Government to tailor nursing home policy for the convenience of my aunt. A fair government that gives us all a reasonable chance (naturally views will differ on the details of that) and enough space to look after those we care about will do fine for most of us, left and right.
    Indeed.
  • Roger said:

    Talking about fashion....

    Yesterday I went to Menton on the Italian Franch border and saw my first African migrants. They were only a trickle snaking their way from the largely unguarded border post and along the promenade. They wore black tracksuits trainers and heavy backpacks the locals Gucci sandals Prada shorts and Louis Vuiton bags. As the migrants marched along past the cafes in the Old Town heads down looking at the pavement the residents seemed oblivious.

    I found it really moving. They had more than likely had horrendous journeys and here they were beside one of the most fashionable waterfronts in the world with no idea of their destination. They'd likely been travelling for weeks or even months. I thought they could at least sleep on the beach though realistically there was no chance and their next stop was Monaco where there was even less chance.

    They really needed money and some guidance. If someone could just organize I'm sure there are plenty of people with buckets of money who would like to help. It is an absolute imperative. Europe is not short of resources. People just need to have their eyes opened.

    Sounds like its somebody else's problem rather than your's.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited September 2015
    Jonathan said:

    PB spends a good proportion of it's time complaining about careerist PPE clones in smart but empty suits dominating politics.

    Then the moment something different crops up, it complains about the lack of said smart empty suit.

    There's different, then there's JC different.

  • Jonathan said:

    PB spends a good proportion of it's time complaining about careerist PPE clones in smart but empty suits dominating politics.

    Then the moment something different crops up, it complains about the lack of said smart empty suit.





    :)
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    edited September 2015

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    I don't think I've ever heard of the term "donkey jacket" in any context whatsoever, apart from the reference to Michael Foot. I have no idea what it is, or is supposed to be, or looks like. The fact that Foot did not, in fact, wear a donkey jacket, is irrelevant, because I don't and wouldn't know the difference.

    Ditto.
    I see I was not the only one who could not get comments to load.

    I always thought of a donkey jacket as being the heavy duty sort of jacket that manual labourers tend to wear when working out in inclement weather. Something practical giving good insulation and typically having leather patches on the elbows to prevent excessive wear, usually very dark to conceal staining.

    Foot was of course wearing something not even close to that but as David pointed out downthread there is no doubt that he looks something of a mess. I am absolutely confident that although he did there was no intention at all on his part to be anything other than respectful to the fallen. With Corbyn I would not be so sure, in fact I tend to think not.

    If he wins Labour should really be ashamed of themselves.

    He'd respect them as individuals. He would not respect their service or what they died for. One day many of those who voted for Corbyn, for whatever reason, will be hugely embarrassed. But not yet.

    You seriously don't think Corbyn respects those who fought to defend the UK against nazism? His own parents fought against fascists in the streets for christ's sake.
    Stop projecting your own hysterical prejudices, you've lost it.

    Being proud of armed services for actually defending this country whilst being opposed to imperial wars thousands of miles away that actually make this country less safe is quite an easy combination to justify.
  • Time to go to out-patients...

    See you all to-morrow, DV
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040

    I must be a terrible person. I'm fiercely patriotic and in a zombie apocalypse, I'd trip someone else's kids up, so that mine could escape!

    On topic. Corbyn will only be a disaster for Labour if the Blairites and centre left decide to cause problems. Of course he's unelectable, but it must be possible for the PLP to grit their teeth and work with him, and tread water to get past 2020 and then elect someone more creditable.
    It will be difficult. The press will slaughter him, and PMQs will be tasty. I just hope the Southam Observer wing of the party can pick up the pieces after 2020, or before if it all implodes early.

    Re Zombie Apocalypse... I know exactly what you mean. Glad i'm not the only person who thinks about survival tactics in a zombie horde scenario.
    So preparing my family for a zombie apocalypse is something else I should be doing? Sigh, I better get on. Laters.
  • DB..My rather remote house in Italy is like a medieval castle... weapons are everywhere...including an air pistol... .and no one is allowed through the gate.
  • JWisemann said:

    Corbyn is unpatriotic. The hard left does not see the world as a collection of nations. It sees it only in terms of class.

    No, that's the wealthy elite, who are loyal only to their kind, and have no care of borders.
    Correction - both types do. And the average member of the middle or working class despises them for it.
  • DB..My rather remote house in Italy is like a medieval castle... weapons are everywhere...including an air pistol... .and no one is allowed through the gate.

    what's your easting and northing... a 6 figure grid-ref would do.
  • Corbyn appears to prefer bicycle clips to the dreaded Lycra....so far that is the best thing about him...with a bit of training he might ascend to the sartorial dizzy heights of trousers tucked into long grey socks..wazzzo..

    Plus Fours would work, wouldn't they?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,009

    HYUFD said:

    He may also wear a white poppy to Remembrance Sunday if he becomes leader as expected it was reported yesterday. The FrontPage of the Times today says Corbyn has questioned the drone strike and said he would not have authorised it

    If I were Cammo, I'd suggest to HMQ that she reminds everyone to wear red ones...

    Yes shrewd if Corbyn does win
  • I too have made plans for the Zombie apocalypse.
  • Mr. Eagles, you'd be screwed. Your garish costumes would attract even the most visually impaired zombie's attention for miles around.
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439

    Corbyn appears to prefer bicycle clips to the dreaded Lycra....so far that is the best thing about him...with a bit of training he might ascend to the sartorial dizzy heights of trousers tucked into long grey socks..wazzzo..

    Plus Fours would work, wouldn't they?
    I've always been of the opinion that one can guess a person's politics by their shoes. I don't understand why socialism abhors shoe polish.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,979
    edited September 2015
    Jonathan said:

    PB spends a good proportion of it's time complaining about careerist PPE clones in smart but empty suits dominating politics.

    Then the moment something different crops up, it complains about the lack of said smart empty suit.

    Corbyn fits the usual complaint - he has known nothing outside of politics. He is an extraordinarily political figure, every action of his life is dictated by his politics.

    He just wasn't bright enough - or disciplined enough - to be a SPAD.
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