politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Burnham comes out against extending Sunday shopping hours
Comments
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He did quadruple his vote though and win the European electionsSunil_Prasannan said:
HYUFD Farage doesn't lead a government, unlike Alexis or Nicola!HYUFD said:
Tsipras, Sturgeon and Farage do not seem to have done too badly out of itnotme said:It's reactionary knee jerkism. It's Mr Angry politics. Hague was great at it, Ed could do it now and then as well. Kinnock was truly the master.
Whatever is said or done, even on things you probably would agree with, you oppose it. You find a vocal group of people who support you.
It's the path to political oblivion, even if you have wider support on that particular issue.0 -
Or for those who don't observe a "Holy Day"SandyRentool said:
Bit of a bugger for those whose holy day is a Friday or Saturday.HYUFD said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
It is a day to be set aside for religious worship, for contemplation, family and rest from the labours of the weekSunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
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"Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean — power over people, power to the State!"TheScreamingEagles said:If my cinema can open from 9am on a Sunday, and stay open until 11pm then so should my local Waitrose, Tesco et al.
- M. H. Thatcher, 1986.0 -
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.0 -
Big whoop. Come back with some news when he wins seats - and he didn't win the European Elections, do you see Farage in government in Europe?HYUFD said:
He did quadruple his vote though and win the European electionsSunil_Prasannan said:
HYUFD Farage doesn't lead a government, unlike Alexis or Nicola!HYUFD said:
Tsipras, Sturgeon and Farage do not seem to have done too badly out of itnotme said:It's reactionary knee jerkism. It's Mr Angry politics. Hague was great at it, Ed could do it now and then as well. Kinnock was truly the master.
Whatever is said or done, even on things you probably would agree with, you oppose it. You find a vocal group of people who support you.
It's the path to political oblivion, even if you have wider support on that particular issue.0 -
But he's not GOVERNING Europe is he, HYUFD?HYUFD said:
He did quadruple his vote though and win the European electionsSunil_Prasannan said:
HYUFD Farage doesn't lead a government, unlike Alexis or Nicola!HYUFD said:
Tsipras, Sturgeon and Farage do not seem to have done too badly out of itnotme said:It's reactionary knee jerkism. It's Mr Angry politics. Hague was great at it, Ed could do it now and then as well. Kinnock was truly the master.
Whatever is said or done, even on things you probably would agree with, you oppose it. You find a vocal group of people who support you.
It's the path to political oblivion, even if you have wider support on that particular issue.0 -
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.0 -
A family outcome to the cinema, perhaps to see 'the Passion of the Christ' arguably constitutes a day of rest anyway!TheScreamingEagles said:If my cinema can open from 9am on a Sunday, and stay open until 11pm then so should my local Waitrose, Tesco et al.
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That's the Junker and Merkel comedy duo !Sunil_Prasannan said:
But he's not GOVERNING Europe is he, HYUFD?HYUFD said:
He did quadruple his vote though and win the European electionsSunil_Prasannan said:
HYUFD Farage doesn't lead a government, unlike Alexis or Nicola!HYUFD said:
Tsipras, Sturgeon and Farage do not seem to have done too badly out of itnotme said:It's reactionary knee jerkism. It's Mr Angry politics. Hague was great at it, Ed could do it now and then as well. Kinnock was truly the master.
Whatever is said or done, even on things you probably would agree with, you oppose it. You find a vocal group of people who support you.
It's the path to political oblivion, even if you have wider support on that particular issue.0 -
0
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If more workers are needed on a Sunday through late opening hours it may not be possible to ensure all Christians, Muslims and Jews can respect their Sabbath Day if the workforce stays the samePhilip_Thompson said:
They can make arrangements as individuals. Considering the sabbath is a Saturday, while for Muslims its a Friday then Sunday trading laws for everyone should have nothing to do with religion.Indigo said:What about the religious beliefs of the shop staff ?
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My German is a bit rusty, I think the Germans are asking for George Osborne...
https://twitter.com/CasMudde/status/6184049605569699840 -
"Socialists don't like ordinary people choosing, for they might not choose Socialism!"Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.
- M. H. Thatcher, 1989.0 -
Muslims and Jews already have the right to respect their own Sabbath Day enshrined by lawSandyRentool said:
Bit of a bugger for those whose holy day is a Friday or Saturday.HYUFD said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
It is a day to be set aside for religious worship, for contemplation, family and rest from the labours of the weekSunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
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Around here, we still get the locally run shops closing for a half-day on a Wednesday - in the middle of the tourist season. They close every Sunday, even the Sunday before Christmas and then moan about lack of business.Plato said:
I used to regularly shop at about 3am when I worked very strange hours - the advent of 24/7 Tescos was brilliant.
My new local supermarket is only open 7am-10pm because that's what the local customers will support. A larger store down the road is open 24/7 as it's got a wider reach and fulfills online orders for a large chunk of Eastern Sx.
Talking about Sunday Trading feels so thirty years ago.Pulpstar said:HYUFD said:
No, I remember times when I've felt like doing a shop on a Sunday Evening, definitely. It's a quiet time - and not much else is going on... so can be ideal.TGOHF said:
The number who would physically pend their Sunday evening going shopping rather than doing it at any other time on the weekend are virtually nilHYUFD said:
Lol - so if shops were only open on a Saturday takings would remain static as everyone would do all their shopping in one day ?TGOHF said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroHYUFD said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.NickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
snip
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of rest
Is online spending on Xmas day zero ?0 -
Paul Mason: "This is a historic day for Europe".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBLLi6Vj9m8&index=1&list=PLXjqQf1xYLQ47IJ7OIRD2uP7cbhhjBU7B0 -
I don't know why in the English language we have to call the German Prime Minister (that's what she is!) a lowly "Chancellor"TheScreamingEagles said:My German is a bit rusty, I think the Germans are asking for George Osborne...
twitter.com/CasMudde/status/618404960556969984 0 -
24 hours to save theAndyJS said:Paul Mason: "This is a historic day for Europe".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBLLi6Vj9m8&index=1&list=PLXjqQf1xYLQ47IJ7OIRD2uP7cbhhjBU7BNHSGreek Economy!0 -
The Tories must be sitting around giggling trying to work out what other stupid shit they can get Labour candidates to commit to ahead of the leadership election.Tissue_Price said:
To whit, a tweet right on cue:edmundintokyo said:I suppose it's understandable that the candidates are focusing on the leadership election but this is horrible positioning for Labour. It's like gay marriage: It's controversial until it happens, but once it's done the way things used to be will seem mad in retrospect, and to the extent that anyone can remember who opposed it they just end up seeming ridiculous.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb 2 minutes ago
Fun fact: Labour opposed the creation of ITV in 1955 and was still agnostic on it in 1959, four years after its creation.0 -
Refusing to move with the times is just idiotic. My local village shops often had Weds PM off, and wondered why town centre shoppers were leaving...Financier said:
Around here, we still get the locally run shops closing for a half-day on a Wednesday - in the middle of the tourist season. They close every Sunday, even the Sunday before Christmas and then moan about lack of business.
Plato said:
Talking about Sunday Trading feels so thirty years ago.Pulpstar said:HYUFD said:
No, I remember times when I've felt like doing a shop on a Sunday Evening, definitely. It's a quiet time - and not much else is going on... so can be ideal.TGOHF said:
The number who would physically pend their Sunday evening going shopping rather than doing it at any other time on the weekend are virtually nilHYUFD said:
Lol - so if shops were only open on a Saturday takings would remain static as everyone would do all their shopping in one day ?TGOHF said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroHYUFD said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.NickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
snip
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of rest
Is online spending on Xmas day zero ?0 -
They're saying 'Bring back the Deutschmark Bismarck'TheScreamingEagles said:My German is a bit rusty, I think the Germans are asking for George Osborne...
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Why? All three are minorities so why couldn't they be respected by the vast majority of non-Church (or other) going people?HYUFD said:
If more workers are needed on a Sunday through late opening hours it may not be possible to ensure all Christians, Muslims and Jews can respect their Sabbath Day if the workforce stays the samePhilip_Thompson said:
They can make arrangements as individuals. Considering the sabbath is a Saturday, while for Muslims its a Friday then Sunday trading laws for everyone should have nothing to do with religion.Indigo said:What about the religious beliefs of the shop staff ?
Fewer than 800,000 people attend Church of England Sunday Services, just 1.2% of the population. I suspect amongst shop workers that figure is even lower. Shops can cope with fewer than 1% of their employees wanting to attend service without the law compelling them to close - especially since finding cover is easier in larger businesses which is the only one the law compels to close.0 -
You still haven't told us WHY an omnipotent, omniscient God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal!HYUFD said:
Muslims and Jews already have the right to respect their own Sabbath Day enshrined by lawSandyRentool said:
Bit of a bugger for those whose holy day is a Friday or Saturday.HYUFD said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
It is a day to be set aside for religious worship, for contemplation, family and rest from the labours of the weekSunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!0 -
Since when has respecting the Bible been socialism? Thatcher suffered her only parliamentary defeat in 1986 on the Shops Bill when 72 Christian Conservative MPs defied the whip to vote against it, being a staunch Methodist herself she took note and did not introduce the measure againSunil_Prasannan said:
"Socialists don't like ordinary people choosing, for they might not choose Socialism!"Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.
- M. H. Thatcher, 1989.0 -
There are loads of examples like this, like calling the King of Japan the "Emperor", even though his empire consists of five uninhabited islets and three barren rocks, and the Chinese are trying to take those.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I don't know why in the English language we have to call the German Prime Minister (that's what she is!) a lowly "Chancellor"TheScreamingEagles said:My German is a bit rusty, I think the Germans are asking for George Osborne...
twitter.com/CasMudde/status/6184049605569699840 -
0
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All the truly great leaders are given the title Dictator.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I don't know why in the English language we have to call the German Prime Minister (that's what she is!) a lowly "Chancellor"TheScreamingEagles said:My German is a bit rusty, I think the Germans are asking for George Osborne...
twitter.com/CasMudde/status/6184049605569699840 -
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.0 -
Or "Dick" for short?TheScreamingEagles said:
All the truly great leaders are given the title Dictator.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I don't know why in the English language we have to call the German Prime Minister (that's what she is!) a lowly "Chancellor"TheScreamingEagles said:My German is a bit rusty, I think the Germans are asking for George Osborne...
twitter.com/CasMudde/status/618404960556969984
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Well neither are Cameron, Sturgeon or TsiprasSunil_Prasannan said:
But he's not GOVERNING Europe is he, HYUFD?HYUFD said:
He did quadruple his vote though and win the European electionsSunil_Prasannan said:
HYUFD Farage doesn't lead a government, unlike Alexis or Nicola!HYUFD said:
Tsipras, Sturgeon and Farage do not seem to have done too badly out of itnotme said:It's reactionary knee jerkism. It's Mr Angry politics. Hague was great at it, Ed could do it now and then as well. Kinnock was truly the master.
Whatever is said or done, even on things you probably would agree with, you oppose it. You find a vocal group of people who support you.
It's the path to political oblivion, even if you have wider support on that particular issue.0 -
Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the budget at the same time as the first day of the first Ashes test?
I'll remember this during the next Tory leadership election.0 -
Since this country isn't a Christian country. Its at most an agnostic country. Cries of "but won't someone think of Sunday Service" are pathetic and laughable when less than 800k attend it. Move on and worship your own sky fairy however you please, you don't need the law to be shaped around your sky fairy.HYUFD said:
Since when has respecting the Bible been socialism? Thatcher suffered her only parliamentary defeat in 1986 on the Shops Bill when 72 Christian Conservative MPs defied the whip to vote against it, being a staunch Methodist herself she took note and did not introduce the measure againSunil_Prasannan said:
"Socialists don't like ordinary people choosing, for they might not choose Socialism!"Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.
- M. H. Thatcher, 1989.0 -
Forget Labour and what Mrs Thatcher said about socialists. If this is to be an omnishambles, then are there any Tory groups who will be damaged by this?DecrepitJohnL said:
This just makes me wonder if we are in for another omnishambles budget -- like the 2012 one, a series of reasonable-looking measures to tidy up anomalies but collectively a kick in the undercarriage to Tory supporters.
Not just those who would keep the sabbath but those who would not, like small business owners who currently have Sundays to themselves, or who now close on Sundays but might be forced to open if Tesco does.0 -
I don't really know why they bother. It's surely irrelevant - the vast majority of members and affiliates will vote for the candidate they want to win, rather than the one their CLP has nominated.Danny565 said:0 -
No there isn't. Anyway that's an issue for them to deal with.HYUFD said:
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.0 -
You still haven't told us unworthy heathens WHY an omnipotent, omniscient God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal!HYUFD said:
Since when has respecting the Bible been socialism? Thatcher suffered her only parliamentary defeat in 1986 on the Shops Bill when 72 Christian Conservative MPs defied the whip to vote against it, being a staunch Methodist herself she took note and did not introduce the measure againSunil_Prasannan said:
"Socialists don't like ordinary people choosing, for they might not choose Socialism!"Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.
- M. H. Thatcher, 1989.0 -
In his infinite wisdom, he can foresee that it'll be raining then?TheScreamingEagles said:Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the budget at the same time as the first day of the first Ashes test?
I'll remember this during the next Tory leadership election.0 -
HYUFD take you blinkers off. Cameron is governing the UK, Sturgeon is FM in Scotland and Tsipras is PM in Greece.HYUFD said:
Well neither are Cameron, Sturgeon or TsiprasSunil_Prasannan said:
But he's not GOVERNING Europe is he, HYUFD?HYUFD said:
He did quadruple his vote though and win the European electionsSunil_Prasannan said:
HYUFD Farage doesn't lead a government, unlike Alexis or Nicola!HYUFD said:
Tsipras, Sturgeon and Farage do not seem to have done too badly out of itnotme said:It's reactionary knee jerkism. It's Mr Angry politics. Hague was great at it, Ed could do it now and then as well. Kinnock was truly the master.
Whatever is said or done, even on things you probably would agree with, you oppose it. You find a vocal group of people who support you.
It's the path to political oblivion, even if you have wider support on that particular issue.
Which country is Nigel PM or FM of?0 -
Because his sky fairy has to rest on a Saturday because a book written thousands of years ago that has been amended throughout those thousands of years said he had to rest on Saturday. That is why we need to close on Sundays.Sunil_Prasannan said:
You still haven't told us unworthy heathens WHY an omnipotent, omniscient God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal!HYUFD said:
Since when has respecting the Bible been socialism? Thatcher suffered her only parliamentary defeat in 1986 on the Shops Bill when 72 Christian Conservative MPs defied the whip to vote against it, being a staunch Methodist herself she took note and did not introduce the measure againSunil_Prasannan said:
"Socialists don't like ordinary people choosing, for they might not choose Socialism!"Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.
- M. H. Thatcher, 1989.0 -
Don't forget all those 800,000 may not even be christians - there are around 10k christenings a month ;pPhilip_Thompson said:
Why? All three are minorities so why couldn't they be respected by the vast majority of non-Church (or other) going people?HYUFD said:
If more workers are needed on a Sunday through late opening hours it may not be possible to ensure all Christians, Muslims and Jews can respect their Sabbath Day if the workforce stays the samePhilip_Thompson said:
They can make arrangements as individuals. Considering the sabbath is a Saturday, while for Muslims its a Friday then Sunday trading laws for everyone should have nothing to do with religion.Indigo said:What about the religious beliefs of the shop staff ?
Fewer than 800,000 people attend Church of England Sunday Services, just 1.2% of the population. I suspect amongst shop workers that figure is even lower. Shops can cope with fewer than 1% of their employees wanting to attend service without the law compelling them to close - especially since finding cover is easier in larger businesses which is the only one the law compels to close.0 -
Union man speaks out as expected...
Shock horror0 -
To set aside a day to appreciate what he had made and for contemplation I would imagine, however sadly I do not have a direct hotline to the Almighty to confirm the answer with him!!Sunil_Prasannan said:
You still haven't told us unworthy heathens WHY an omnipotent, omniscient God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal!HYUFD said:
Since when has respecting the Bible been socialism? Thatcher suffered her only parliamentary defeat in 1986 on the Shops Bill when 72 Christian Conservative MPs defied the whip to vote against it, being a staunch Methodist herself she took note and did not introduce the measure againSunil_Prasannan said:
"Socialists don't like ordinary people choosing, for they might not choose Socialism!"Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.
- M. H. Thatcher, 1989.0 -
You'd have thought Greece would have recognised the urgency of the situation but apparently not:
"Multiple sources are now reporting that Greece hasn’t brought new proposals to the Eurogroup (as rumoured earlier). According to a third eurozone official, Greece will instead present its new plan tomorrow."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/jul/07/greek-debt-crisis-alex-tsipras-seeks-last-chance-deal-live0 -
So you want to have your right for 24 hour shopping respected but not that of the religious to ensure they can observe the Sabbath!Philip_Thompson said:
No there isn't. Anyway that's an issue for them to deal with.HYUFD said:
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.0 -
Do YOU think the Almighty would need to "rest"?HYUFD said:
To set aside a day to appreciate what he had made and for contemplation I would imagine, however sadly I do not have a direct hotline to the Almighty to confirm the answer with him!!Sunil_Prasannan said:
You still haven't told us unworthy heathens WHY an omnipotent, omniscient God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal!HYUFD said:
Since when has respecting the Bible been socialism? Thatcher suffered her only parliamentary defeat in 1986 on the Shops Bill when 72 Christian Conservative MPs defied the whip to vote against it, being a staunch Methodist herself she took note and did not introduce the measure againSunil_Prasannan said:
"Socialists don't like ordinary people choosing, for they might not choose Socialism!"Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.
- M. H. Thatcher, 1989.0 -
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.HYUFD said:
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.0 -
Do you think the Test Cricket will be more boring than the Budget, or vice versa?TheScreamingEagles said:Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the budget at the same time as the first day of the first Ashes test?
I'll remember this during the next Tory leadership election. 0 -
"Sorry Ms Merkel, the dog ate our homework"AndyJS said:You'd have thought Greece would have recognised the urgency of the situation but apparently not:
"Multiple sources are now reporting that Greece hasn’t brought new proposals to the Eurogroup (as rumoured earlier). According to a third eurozone official, Greece will instead present its new plan tomorrow."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/jul/07/greek-debt-crisis-alex-tsipras-seeks-last-chance-deal-live0 -
59% of people declared themselves Christian in the 2011 census, plus the 8% affiliated to other religionsPhilip_Thompson said:
Since this country isn't a Christian country. Its at most an agnostic country. Cries of "but won't someone think of Sunday Service" are pathetic and laughable when less than 800k attend it. Move on and worship your own sky fairy however you please, you don't need the law to be shaped around your sky fairy.HYUFD said:
Since when has respecting the Bible been socialism? Thatcher suffered her only parliamentary defeat in 1986 on the Shops Bill when 72 Christian Conservative MPs defied the whip to vote against it, being a staunch Methodist herself she took note and did not introduce the measure againSunil_Prasannan said:
"Socialists don't like ordinary people choosing, for they might not choose Socialism!"Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start work first thing in the morning, most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the weekPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.
- M. H. Thatcher, 1989.0 -
Not only that but if you shut down Sunday as an option then for those who want to work Mon-Sat you are competing for shifts with those who are willing to work on Sunday. By allowing those who don't care to work on Sundays you free up Mon-Sat shifts for those that do.edmundintokyo said:
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.HYUFD said:
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.0 -
Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the emergency budget at the same time as Greece brings its bailout proposals forwardTheScreamingEagles said:Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the budget at the same time as the first day of the first Ashes test?
I'll remember this during the next Tory leadership election.0 -
If England are batting then hopefully the budget will be more exciting.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Do think the Test Cricket will be more boring than the Budget, or vice versa?TheScreamingEagles said:Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the budget at the same time as the first day of the first Ashes test?
I'll remember this during the next Tory leadership election.
If England are bowling, then the cricket should be more interesting.0 -
How many of them observe the Sabbath?HYUFD said:
59% of people declared themselves Christian in the 2011 census, plus the 8% affiliated to other religionsPhilip_Thompson said:
Since this country isn't a Christian country. Its at most an agnostic country. Cries of "but won't someone think of Sunday Service" are pathetic and laughable when less than 800k attend it. Move on and worship your own sky fairy however you please, you don't need the law to be shaped around your sky fairy.HYUFD said:
Since when has respecting the Bible been socialism? Thatcher suffered her only parliamentary defeat in 1986 on the Shops Bill when 72 Christian Conservative MPs defied the whip to vote against it, being a staunch Methodist herself she took note and did not introduce the measure againSunil_Prasannan said:
"Socialists don't like ordinary people choosing, for they might not choose Socialism!"Philip_Thompson said:
Your choice not mine. I want a 24/7 society, so do many others. You are not compelled to shop if you don't want to, while I am banned from doing what I desire. You need to do better to justify that than say "you can make other arrangements".HYUFD said:
I worked nights for a few months after university, you can quite easily do your shopping before you start workPhilip_Thompson said:
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who aresee a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.
most supermarkets are open from 6/7am on Saturdays as well as in the week
- M. H. Thatcher, 1989.0 -
Sunil Is there a regular "Holy day" in Hinduism - or is that a trait unique to the three abrahamic religions.0
-
So what? Many people tick a box just because their parents were religious, but that doesn't mean they care about working on Sunday just because the Bible forbids working on Saturdays does it. Especially since we know that less than 0.8 million attend CoE Sunday Services The Bible says a lot of stuff but that doesn't mean it should be the law.HYUFD said:
59% of people declared themselves Christian in the 2011 census, plus the 8% affiliated to other religionsPhilip_Thompson said:Since this country isn't a Christian country. Its at most an agnostic country. Cries of "but won't someone think of Sunday Service" are pathetic and laughable when less than 800k attend it. Move on and worship your own sky fairy however you please, you don't need the law to be shaped around your sky fairy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-ip47WYWc0 -
Because he's a truly great master strategist.bigjohnowls said:
Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the emergency budget at the same time as Greece brings its bailout proposals forwardTheScreamingEagles said:Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the budget at the same time as the first day of the first Ashes test?
I'll remember this during the next Tory leadership election.0 -
Well actually not quite.. There will be Christians and those of other religious denominations who don't want to work on Sunday being forced to do so by their employer,.Plato said:Well quite.
Philip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I forsee court cases on this coming down the line.
In any event.... I think I saw a dead cat on the table.0 -
I put myself down as a Muslim on the census.HYUFD said:
59% of people declared themselves Christian in the 2011 census, plus the 8% affiliated to other religions
Trust me, I'm not very religious.0 -
I know, disgraceful. Would never have happened in John Major's day!TheScreamingEagles said:Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the budget at the same time as the first day of the first Ashes test?
I'll remember this during the next Tory leadership election.0 -
Has trading in Greek 10 year bonds been suspended? The figure has been stuck at 18.089 all day:
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GGGB10YR:IND0 -
That goes without sayingTheScreamingEagles said:
Because he's a truly great master strategist.bigjohnowls said:
Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the emergency budget at the same time as Greece brings its bailout proposals forwardTheScreamingEagles said:Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the budget at the same time as the first day of the first Ashes test?
I'll remember this during the next Tory leadership election.
Osborne for leader, can I count you in?0 -
Holy? No.Pulpstar said:Sunil Is there a regular "Holy day" in Hinduism - or is that a trait unique to the three abrahamic religions.
But "Holi" is the festival where you throw coloured powder at each other! It's even catching on over here:
http://holifestival.com/uk/en/index0 -
Well they either make a sufficient turn to justify that labour or they don't. If they don't the taxpayer cannot be expected to make up the shortfall for them indefinitely. It may well encourage them to try to increase the productivity of their workforce which would clearly be a good thing. This might reduce employment at the margins but the jobs market is exceptionally buoyant at the moment so this is unlikely to cause unemployment.Philip_Thompson said:
I hope not. It will be a shame to see a big increase in unemployment and bankruptcies that a substantial increase in minimum wage could cause. The minimum wage is already far higher in real terms than it was when it was first introduced, where do you think companies struggling to make ends meet will magic up money to pay ever increasing wage bills? Do companies have magic money trees like Labour governments?DavidL said:
Some of them yes but others would continue to be ruthlessly exploited by a market that is very much weighted in the employer's favour.Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen (nor should it) but if George Osborne were to announce tomorrow the complete abolition of tax credits (with nothing replacing them) and the complete abolition of minimum wage laws (with no replacement) then today's minimum wage jobs are more likely to go down than up over time.
What I hope will happen tomorrow is that there will be a significant increase in the minimum wage with offsetting reductions in WTC and CTC so that more of the cost of labour falls on the person obtaining the benefit of it. WTC and CTC should also taper out at a lower level, possibly the current cap for benefits.
Tomorrow may well be the most important political event of this Parliament. It will set the agenda for a rebalancing of our economy onto a sustainable path and set the political context for political debate thereafter.
Of course, given the current mess in the EZ and the age of this recovery it is all too possible that the country will be blown off the path that Osborne will set. But tomorrow will fix the agenda and the future battlefields. I presume Hattie will be doing the reply.
In economic terms encouraging unproductive employers who are inefficient in their use of labour by state subsidy is an inappropriate use of resources and makes it more difficult for better employers to find and train the labour they need.
This is going to be a matter of judgment over time and I fully accept that we would need to keep the NMW under review by reference to the jobs market. At the moment it looks like a correct and relatively painless way of making necessary cuts to welfare spending.
0 -
I doubt there's many buyers of Greek bonds at any price today!AndyJS said:Has trading in Greek 10 year bonds been suspended? The figure has been stuck at 18.089 all day:
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GGGB10YR:IND0 -
No mere chancellor.
Otto von Bismarck became ‘Reichskanzler’ which means literally ‘Imperial Chancellor’ of the newly unified Germany. Merkel is the ‘Bundeskanzlerin’ to denote the non-imperialist, federal nature of Germany. The ‘in’ at the end is merely the gender feminisation of the noun.
0 -
In the 2001 Census I put myself down as a Jedi as I think that religion and the State asking about it is a joke. The numbers who ticked Other and wrote Jedi exceeded those who ticked Judaism.TheScreamingEagles said:
I put myself down as a Muslim on the census.HYUFD said:
59% of people declared themselves Christian in the 2011 census, plus the 8% affiliated to other religions
Trust me, I'm not very religious.0 -
There is a difference between an ISIS style theocracry, basing all your laws on the Koran/Bible and a society which has mainly secular laws but still respects the rights of religious people to practice what they believe. That includes exempting churches from carrying out gay marriage laws, ensuring Jewish people have Kosher food at public dinners, allowing the religious not to work on their Sabbath Day, allowing religious medical practitioners not to have to perform abortions etcPhilip_Thompson said:
So what? Many people tick a box just because their parents were religious, but that doesn't mean they care about working on Sunday just because the Bible forbids working on Saturdays does it. Especially since we know that less than 0.8 million attend CoE Sunday Services The Bible says a lot of stuff but that doesn't mean it should be the law.HYUFD said:
59% of people declared themselves Christian in the 2011 census, plus the 8% affiliated to other religionsPhilip_Thompson said:Since this country isn't a Christian country. Its at most an agnostic country. Cries of "but won't someone think of Sunday Service" are pathetic and laughable when less than 800k attend it. Move on and worship your own sky fairy however you please, you don't need the law to be shaped around your sky fairy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-ip47WYWc0 -
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.0
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Yebbut why not "Prime Minister" when translated into English. Germany has a "President" just like other (non-Presidential) republics.SimonStClare said:No mere chancellor.
Otto von Bismarck became ‘Reichskanzler’ which means literally ‘Imperial Chancellor’ of the newly unified Germany. Merkel is the ‘Bundeskanzlerin’ to denote the non-imperialist, federal nature of Germany. The ‘in’ at the end is merely the gender feminisation of the noun.0 -
My vote will be going to Jeremy Hunt or Sajid Javid, Nothing to do with me having backed them at long odds.bigjohnowls said:
That goes without sayingTheScreamingEagles said:
Because he's a truly great master strategist.bigjohnowls said:
Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the emergency budget at the same time as Greece brings its bailout proposals forwardTheScreamingEagles said:Why the eff has George Osborne scheduled the budget at the same time as the first day of the first Ashes test?
I'll remember this during the next Tory leadership election.
Osborne for leader, can I count you in?0 -
JeremyCorbyn4Leader @Corbyn4Leader 7m7 minutes ago
We've smashed through our campaign fund target of £25,000. Thanks so much everyone who has donated. #jeremy4leader
Thinking of donating my Tunisian refund but not sure N4E and the Watcher who have donated to my pension so graciously will approve!!0 -
@JananGanesh: So, Greek government does not bother making a proposal. Just plain bantering the eurogroup now.
@Reuters: BREAKING: Greece says it will submit new aid proposal 'maybe' Wednesday - Senior Eurozone official. More: http://t.co/qTlwcFKXXg0 -
In 2001 I seriously thought about putting "Jedi", but was worried the authorities might not like it! So I chickened out and put "no religion".Philip_Thompson said:
In the 2001 Census I put myself down as a Jedi as I think that religion and the State asking about it is a joke. The numbers who ticked Other and wrote Jedi exceeded those who ticked Judaism.TheScreamingEagles said:
I put myself down as a Muslim on the census.HYUFD said:
59% of people declared themselves Christian in the 2011 census, plus the 8% affiliated to other religions
Trust me, I'm not very religious.
In 2011, unfortunately, I was in the USA at the time of the UK Census, so didn't put myself down as anything 0 -
I'm quite OK with the taxpayer taking a big step back, but I'd hope to see corresponding tax cuts of the government taking less off the companies and people too then. As someone who helps run a small business we give more money to the government than any other supplier or employees. There is no state subsidy here, we pay our own wages to our employees and don't get a single penny back off the State to pay for the wages. If the government pays Child Tax Credits as a form of welfare then that has nothing to do with us and is not a subsidy to us or any large The idea there is a subsidy is just factually incorrect - I'd like you to show a single payment to employers from the State rather than the other way around.DavidL said:Well they either make a sufficient turn to justify that labour or they don't. If they don't the taxpayer cannot be expected to make up the shortfall for them indefinitely. It may well encourage them to try to increase the productivity of their workforce which would clearly be a good thing. This might reduce employment at the margins but the jobs market is exceptionally buoyant at the moment so this is unlikely to cause unemployment.
In economic terms encouraging unproductive employers who are inefficient in their use of labour by state subsidy is an inappropriate use of resources and makes it more difficult for better employers to find and train the labour they need.
This is going to be a matter of judgment over time and I fully accept that we would need to keep the NMW under review by reference to the jobs market. At the moment it looks like a correct and relatively painless way of making necessary cuts to welfare spending.0 -
Can anyone donate, or is restricted to longstanding Labour members?bigjohnowls said:JeremyCorbyn4Leader @Corbyn4Leader 7m7 minutes ago
We've smashed through our campaign fund target of £25,000. Thanks so much everyone who has donated. #jeremy4leader
Thinking of donating my Tunisian refund but not sure N4E and the Watcher who have donated to my pension so graciously will approve!!0 -
Perhaps your question should be why we give our Finance Minister such a grand title as Chancellor.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Yebbut why not "Prime Minister" when translated into English. Germany has a "President" just like other (non-Presidential) republics.SimonStClare said:No mere chancellor.
Otto von Bismarck became ‘Reichskanzler’ which means literally ‘Imperial Chancellor’ of the newly unified Germany. Merkel is the ‘Bundeskanzlerin’ to denote the non-imperialist, federal nature of Germany. The ‘in’ at the end is merely the gender feminisation of the noun.0 -
I worked on the 2011 Census and I can assure you that there are enough things to try and fit on to the questionnaire without having a "I'm a fair weather Christian" option!AndyJS said:IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
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I think they did that for Northern Ireland. "Religion or Religion brought up in"AndyJS said:IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
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Do you believe there isn't a protestant God or a catholic God xDSunil_Prasannan said:
I think they did that for Northern Ireland. "Religion or Religion brought up in"AndyJS said:IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
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Unless they're clumsily stalling whilst trying to snuggle up with Putinesque types/printing millions of 20 Euro notes!Pulpstar said:
How the f*ck can it be "MAYBE" Wednesday.Scott_P said:'maybe' Wednesday
Maybe ?!
I doubt the Greeks have even printed up a few billion Drachma to switch to when they are chucked out the Eurozone.
Amateur hour.0 -
Touchewilliamglenn said:
Perhaps your question should be why we give our Finance Minister such a grand title as Chancellor.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Yebbut why not "Prime Minister" when translated into English. Germany has a "President" just like other (non-Presidential) republics.SimonStClare said:No mere chancellor.
Otto von Bismarck became ‘Reichskanzler’ which means literally ‘Imperial Chancellor’ of the newly unified Germany. Merkel is the ‘Bundeskanzlerin’ to denote the non-imperialist, federal nature of Germany. The ‘in’ at the end is merely the gender feminisation of the noun. 0 -
Whenever I've had to manage people, I've generally tried to do so in a humane, considerate way, rather than swirling my cape, twirling my mustache and crushing my minions beneath my booted heel.SquareRoot said:
Well actually not quite.. There will be Christians and those of other religious denominations who don't want to work on Sunday being forced to do so by their employer,.Plato said:Well quite.
Philip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I forsee court cases on this coming down the line.
In any event.... I think I saw a dead cat on the table.
I confidently predict It's not going to be an issue for the overwhelming majority of employees.0 -
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"AndyJS said:IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
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Indeed, that may well be a possibilitySquareRoot said:
Well actually not quite.. There will be Christians and those of other religious denominations who don't want to work on Sunday being forced to do so by their employer,.Plato said:Well quite.
Philip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I forsee court cases on this coming down the line.
In any event.... I think I saw a dead cat on the table.0 -
In 2001, it was termed "Community Background":Pulpstar said:
Do you believe there isn't a protestant God or a catholic God xDSunil_Prasannan said:
I think they did that for Northern Ireland. "Religion or Religion brought up in"AndyJS said:IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm0 -
ED Miliband on his feet in the HoC arguing against EVEL
Still in Salmond's pocket...0 -
He's actually able to stand???Scott_P said:ED Miliband on his feet in the HoC arguing against EVEL
Still in Salmond's pocket...0 -
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.williamglenn said:
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"AndyJS said:IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.0 -
I believe in Germany, the role of 'prime minister' was already taken and refers to the minister in charge of a er, ministry. Chancellor is the de facto 'leader' - it may confuse you, but why should they adopt an anglo centric political terminology?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Yebbut why not "Prime Minister" when translated into English. Germany has a "President" just like other (non-Presidential) republics.SimonStClare said:No mere chancellor.
Otto von Bismarck became ‘Reichskanzler’ which means literally ‘Imperial Chancellor’ of the newly unified Germany. Merkel is the ‘Bundeskanzlerin’ to denote the non-imperialist, federal nature of Germany. The ‘in’ at the end is merely the gender feminisation of the noun.0 -
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdaysedmundintokyo said:
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.HYUFD said:
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.0 -
I said when the term is translated into English.SimonStClare said:
I believe in Germany, the role of 'prime minister' was already taken and refers to the minister in charge of a er, ministry. Chancellor is the de facto 'leader' - it may confuse you, but why should they adopt an anglo centric political terminology?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Yebbut why not "Prime Minister" when translated into English. Germany has a "President" just like other (non-Presidential) republics.SimonStClare said:No mere chancellor.
Otto von Bismarck became ‘Reichskanzler’ which means literally ‘Imperial Chancellor’ of the newly unified Germany. Merkel is the ‘Bundeskanzlerin’ to denote the non-imperialist, federal nature of Germany. The ‘in’ at the end is merely the gender feminisation of the noun.
But no worries, just remembered there was a "Chancellor" in Star Wars...0 -
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?John_M said:
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.williamglenn said:
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"AndyJS said:IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.0 -
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.HYUFD said:
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdaysedmundintokyo said:
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.HYUFD said:
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.0 -
No names mentioned Professor Richard Dawkins!John_M said:
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.williamglenn said:
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"AndyJS said:IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.0 -
You make my point very well. As for our govt. Of course the issue and the principle behind it has to do with us. We are being urged by the left to be a bit like Greece and howl blue murder over 'austerity'. One of the first words Corbyn uttered in his recent QT appearance was 'austerity' and I think they were talking about cross mediterranean immigration from Africa! It was grotesque self serving sloganising.Indigo said:
This is nothing to do with our government so I don't know why you felt the need to put in a quick commercial for them in your reply.Flightpathl said:The last 'tory led government' increased the retirement ages. It also cut spending. It also put up VAT. The current tory govt is cutting benefits spending and searching out tax avoidance.
But hey lets let Greece and the Greeks get away with it.
I imagine official bribery as you suggest is widespread in places like africa and in the far east - probably Russia. But it should not be endemic in Europe, irrespective of the EU the Euro or whatever.
Once again I suggest that its because this govt are doing the right things to reform our broken economy and social security system that we should give it our support.
Corruption and bribery are pretty rampant in Greece, Fakelaki ("little envelopes") are commonly passed to public officials to "expedite" services or change official amounts. The same is true in Italy, where is is perfectly normal to agree the amount of tax you pay over a couple of bottles of wine, also the amount that will be passed under the table to facilitate this consideration. In my experience a cut from all these payments are paid to their boss, and he passes on a cut of his aggregate payments to his boss and so forth. This means there is no interest from the middle ranking civil servant in promoting reform,because it cuts into their own profits, and they obstruct reform as often as they can. Recent studies in Greece suggest that almost a billion euros a year are paid by the public in these sort of payments, and rather more than a billion by corporations and businesses.0 -
Yes but I think the majority of British people are in precisely that category: not religious but still feeling culturally connected to a particular tradition. The problem with the no religion category is that militant atheists love to cite the figure as part of their campaign to get rid of religious traditions altogether which I don't think is what most people want.tlg86 said:
I worked on the 2011 Census and I can assure you that there are enough things to try and fit on to the questionnaire without having a "I'm a fair weather Christian" option!AndyJS said:IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
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