IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?
Hi Sam! Do you think an "Almighty" God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?
Hi Sam! Do you think an "Almighty" God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Well, almost by definition an omnipotent being can do whatever it likes, c.f. "where does a 700lb gorilla sit?"
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?
Hi Sam! Do you think an "Almighty" God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Well, almost by definition an omnipotent being can do whatever it likes, c.f. "where does a 700lb gorilla sit?"
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
I worked on the 2011 Census and I can assure you that there are enough things to try and fit on to the questionnaire without having a "I'm a fair weather Christian" option!
Yes but I think the majority of British people are in precisely that category: not religious but still feeling culturally connected to a particular tradition. The problem with the no religion category is that militant atheists love to cite the figure as part of their campaign to get rid of religious traditions altogether which I don't think is what most people want.
Well, I appeared as one of the Three Kings in a school Nativity Play when I was about 8. I was the one wot carried Myrrh, IIRC.
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
I worked on the 2011 Census and I can assure you that there are enough things to try and fit on to the questionnaire without having a "I'm a fair weather Christian" option!
Yes but I think the majority of British people are in precisely that category: not religious but still feeling culturally connected to a particular tradition. The problem with the no religion category is that militant atheists love to cite the figure as part of their campaign to get rid of religious traditions altogether which I don't think is what most people want.
I think what you're talking about is out of scope of the Census. My parents fit the category you describe and they insisted I put them down as being Christians.
For what it's worth, I'm an atheist but used the free text field to declare that 'Arsene Knows', which was followed by Arsenal spectacularly collapsing and finishing a distant fourth.
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
How many of these "cultural" Christians would refuse Sunday employment in principle?
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?
Hi Sam! Do you think an "Almighty" God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Well, almost by definition an omnipotent being can do whatever it likes, c.f. "where does a 700lb gorilla sit?"
Ah, but I said NEED, not WANT
I like the King James translation of the bible.
"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.".
Nothing about need. But this is the kind of tedious, tendentious crap we used to go through on alt.atheism (mainly pulverising young earth creationists), I shall graciously bow out and allow you the final word.
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?
Hi Sam! Do you think an "Almighty" God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
What if God was one of us Just a slob like one of us Just a stranger on the bus Trying to make His way home
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?
Hi Sam! Do you think an "Almighty" God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Well, almost by definition an omnipotent being can do whatever it likes, c.f. "where does a 700lb gorilla sit?"
Ah, but I said NEED, not WANT
I like the King James translation of the bible.
"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.".
Nothing about need. But this is the kind of tedious, tendentious crap we used to go through on alt.atheism (mainly pulverising young earth creationists), I shall graciously bow out and allow you the final word.
Well they either make a sufficient turn to justify that labour or they don't. If they don't the taxpayer cannot be expected to make up the shortfall for them indefinitely. It may well encourage them to try to increase the productivity of their workforce which would clearly be a good thing. This might reduce employment at the margins but the jobs market is exceptionally buoyant at the moment so this is unlikely to cause unemployment.
In economic terms encouraging unproductive employers who are inefficient in their use of labour by state subsidy is an inappropriate use of resources and makes it more difficult for better employers to find and train the labour they need.
This is going to be a matter of judgment over time and I fully accept that we would need to keep the NMW under review by reference to the jobs market. At the moment it looks like a correct and relatively painless way of making necessary cuts to welfare spending.
I'm quite OK with the taxpayer taking a big step back, but I'd hope to see corresponding tax cuts of the government taking less off the companies and people too then. As someone who helps run a small business we give more money to the government than any other supplier or employees. There is no state subsidy here, we pay our own wages to our employees and don't get a single penny back off the State to pay for the wages. If the government pays Child Tax Credits as a form of welfare then that has nothing to do with us and is not a subsidy to us or any large The idea there is a subsidy is just factually incorrect - I'd like you to show a single payment to employers from the State rather than the other way around.
Let's assume for the moment that the concept of a living wage has a real meaning. Big assumption I know but for the sake of the exercise. You employ someone for less than the living wage. How do they manage to work for you? Well, in many cases they can afford to supply you with that labour because the State tops up their income with WTC or CTC.
If the State did not do this then they would (on the same hypothesis) have to work somewhere else for more or move somewhere cheaper so they can afford to work for the minimum wage. To say that CTC has "nothing to do with us" is simply incorrect. It increases the supply of labour to you and reduces its price.
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?
Hi Sam! Do you think an "Almighty" God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
What if God was one of us Just a slob like one of us Just a stranger on the bus Trying to make His way home
[Tries in vain to stop self writing "What if God WERE one of us"]
I think we're getting sidetracked here. This issue is not a game changer - far from it. There may be some voters that care strongly about this issue, who could be won over and I think that they're in favor of keeping the status quo. I also suspect that this is something that holds true for conservatives. They'd rather prefer things as they are. So, if any anything, this is a smart move by Andy to reach out to another set of narrow voters driven by one policy issue.
As a libertarian, I personally am in favor of longer opening hours. Having talked to retailers in other countries about this topic, I get the distinct impression that they generally seem to think longer opening hours will not result in more turnover overall (it will just be more spread out) but that it will increase their working hours and labour costs. The situation is different in border regions where people can readily travel to another country with different laws but that does not hold true here.
Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas
snip
snip
snip
Sunday trading is not a left or right issue but a religious v secular issue, liberals and libertartians in both parties would back extending hours, social conservatives and traditionalists would oppose it.
Is it wrong for the NHS to treat people on Sundays? To get the best value out of its static facilities and to treat people more quickly the NHS is moving to ''24/7''. To open more on Sundays, businesses will have to employ more people and arrange shifts to accommodate rotation. Pay will be higher for Sunday working. Many industries work shifts including weekend shifts if the demand is there. Even if such shifts do not include Sundays it's likely that maintenance work will be done on Sundays as a result.
It occurs to be that if opening hours are liberalised to literally 24/7 then that would mean less Sunday lunchtime shopping, as people shop at 11pm on Saturday (or Monday, or whatever) night say. This liberalisation might free up Sundays for many people. Burnham following the union line should be no surprise, nor should the aim of unions to bankrupt businesses rather than support them. If Montgomerie opposes a tory measure that should be the least surprise of all, he is after all as thick as a plank.
You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Did the Lord make an exception for stores less than 3,000 sq feet?
And we do heal people on this 'day of rest'. As it is -- ''The proposal expected in Wednesday's Budget could give elected mayors and councils powers to relax laws locally if it might boost economic activity... The proposal comes after larger stores and supermarkets were allowed to open for longer on Sundays during the 2012 London Olympic and Paralympic Games. Mr Osborne said decisions on similar relaxations of the law should be taken at a local level - if officials think longer opening hours would boost economies.''
I cannot believe people are getting worked up over this little bit of localism. Can we not stop yet again and think. When you sit down on Saturday and order something on line to be delivered Monday ... well do you think it happens by magic or is it because all sorts of people are working Saturdays and Sundays and early Monday morning??
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?
Hi Sam! Do you think an "Almighty" God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
What if God was one of us Just a slob like one of us Just a stranger on the bus Trying to make His way home
[Tries in vain to stop self writing "What if God WERE one of us"]
Bloody Yanks, never really got the hang of English.
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?
Hi Sam! Do you think an "Almighty" God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Well, almost by definition an omnipotent being can do whatever it likes, c.f. "where does a 700lb gorilla sit?"
Ah, but I said NEED, not WANT
I like the King James translation of the bible.
"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.".
Nothing about need. But this is the kind of tedious, tendentious crap we used to go through on alt.atheism (mainly pulverising young earth creationists), I shall graciously bow out and allow you the final word.
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work' That is the relevant verse I believe
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?
Hi Sam! Do you think an "Almighty" God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
While I don't know anything about the wrongs or rights, I'm not sure Mr Bercow was acting in a speaker-like way. Hard to think of Bettry Boothroyd or Bernard Weatherill behaving in that manner.
If more shops open at all hours on Sundays and Saturdays then measures do need to be taken to respect the rights of the religious in the workforce to observe the Sabbath
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
How many of these "cultural" Christians would refuse Sunday employment in principle?
If we are to respect minority rights that has to include practicing Christians
IIRC, there's no "exchange" for government bonds, it's entirely an OTC market. So, I suspect that either there are just very few (if any) transactions going or people are delaying reporting price data to Bloomberg.
IMO there should be an option in the census for people who are atheists but have a cultural affinity with a particular religion.
"Which God is it that you don't believe in?"
That's not as daft as it might sound. I'm an atheist, but I'd be a stupid atheist not to admit that I have grown up with, and been influenced by, the Judeo-Christian tradition. I'm very fond of the CoE, love church architecture, singing hymns and carols on the odd occasion and so forth.
I feel quite protective of the church - religion comforts many people, and I think it's extremely rude to dismiss people's sincerely held faith as deluded belief in a 'sky fairy'. Militant secularists/atheists give us a bad name. No one likes a boor.
But they're soooo clever.... They've got it all sussed. Surely that gives them the right, using logic and reason, to childishly chastise and denigrate the feelings of anyone who mildly disagrees with them?
Hi Sam! Do you think an "Almighty" God would need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Well, almost by definition an omnipotent being can do whatever it likes, c.f. "where does a 700lb gorilla sit?"
Ah, but I said NEED, not WANT
I like the King James translation of the bible.
"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.".
Nothing about need. But this is the kind of tedious, tendentious crap we used to go through on alt.atheism (mainly pulverising young earth creationists), I shall graciously bow out and allow you the final word.
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work' That is the relevant verse I believe
Back in the day, that would have been SATURDAY, not Sunday!
If more shops open at all hours on Sundays and Saturdays then measures do need to be taken to respect the rights of the religious in the workforce to observe the Sabbath
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
How many of these "cultural" Christians would refuse Sunday employment in principle?
If we are to respect minority rights that has to include practicing Christians
What % of the workforce are "practising" Christians?
If more shops open at all hours on Sundays and Saturdays then measures do need to be taken to respect the rights of the religious in the workforce to observe the Sabbath
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
How many of these "cultural" Christians would refuse Sunday employment in principle?
If we are to respect minority rights that has to include practicing Christians
What % of the workforce are "practising" Christians?
What percentage are homosexuals, ethnic minorities etc? In a free country you should respect minority rights
If more shops open at all hours on Sundays and Saturdays then measures do need to be taken to respect the rights of the religious in the workforce to observe the Sabbath
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
How many of these "cultural" Christians would refuse Sunday employment in principle?
If we are to respect minority rights that has to include practicing Christians
What % of the workforce are "practising" Christians?
What percentage are homosexuals, ethnic minorities etc, in a free country you should respect minority rights
So how many homosexuals would refuse Sunday employment?
Fair to say, European finance ministers are not pleased at having been dragged to Brussels to hear a proposal that doesn't yet exist.
And you have to wonder what the Greeks are playing at. It's one thing not to have a Plan B, it's another altogether not to have a Plan A.
Well, quite. And let's not forget that Tsipras promised that a deal would be done within 48 hours of the referendum result.
Looks like the game the Greeks are playing is "whack-a-state".
It's all playing out much as expected.
As if there wasn’t enough drama, Alexis Tsipras will now make an appearance at the European Parliament on Wednesday morning: No doubt the new proposals will be delivered verbally?
If more shops open at all hours on Sundays and Saturdays then measures do need to be taken to respect the rights of the religious in the workforce to observe the Sabbath
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
How many of these "cultural" Christians would refuse Sunday employment in principle?
If we are to respect minority rights that has to include practicing Christians
What % of the workforce are "practising" Christians?
What percentage are homosexuals, ethnic minorities etc, in a free country you should respect minority rights
So how many homosexuals would refuse Sunday employment?
Fair to say, European finance ministers are not pleased at having been dragged to Brussels to hear a proposal that doesn't yet exist.
And you have to wonder what the Greeks are playing at. It's one thing not to have a Plan B, it's another altogether not to have a Plan A.
Well, quite. And let's not forget that Tsipras promised that a deal would be done within 48 hours of the referendum result.
Looks like the game the Greeks are playing is "whack-a-state".
It's all playing out much as expected.
I bet George (and the Greeks for that matter) is really glad he is not involved in this farce. Those that were conned into voting no must be genuinely bewildered.
O/T looking at the migrant crisis in Calais. Can't we load them all on a ferry and ship them back to Libya? I'm sure the cost of that is less than all the policing etc. After a few round trips even the most ardent migrant will think twice about trying to get to the UK/Northern Europe.
I see a lot of parallels in the analysis of Luke Akehurst and Henry G. Mason - "the labor insider" who's talked up the chances of Yvette Cooper. They both peddle the same (misguided) analysis that Corbyn is the "hard left" candidate, Burnham the "soft left" candidate, Cooper "the centrist" and Kendall the "right winger" believing that Cooper will squeeze through on second preferences.
I think it's a flawed analysis in a number of ways... Going for 2nd preferences is not a winning strategy... The best strategy is to reach out to as many special interest groups as possible and take the centrist ground. In my reading, Cooper is not the real centrist in this race, rather it is Andy Burnham... Cooper is the "continuity candidate" given her association with Ed Balls.
In any case, I'd discount Luke Akehurst because he's part of the Cooper campaign:
"Yvette Cooper's campaign team have released a list of MPs backing her in her bid for the Labour leadership. A source said they had more than the 35 required to guarantee a place on the ballot paper, although they are not saying exactly how many have offered their support. Former ministers Chris Bryant, David Hanson and John Healey are among the named MPs. Hazel Blears' former special adviser Paul Richards and activist Luke Akehurst will also work on the campaign, said the source, alongside regional organisers Shelia Murphy and Caroline Badley."
Of course, he's going to talk up the probability of his "horse" winning the race, just as Polly Toynbee would who worked together with Yvette Cooper. And he's trying to craft a narrative to boot...
If more shops open at all hours on Sundays and Saturdays then measures do need to be taken to respect the rights of the religious in the workforce to observe the Sabbath
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
How many of these "cultural" Christians would refuse Sunday employment in principle?
If we are to respect minority rights that has to include practicing Christians
What % of the workforce are "practising" Christians?
What percentage are homosexuals, ethnic minorities etc, in a free country you should respect minority rights
So how many homosexuals would refuse Sunday employment?
If more shops open at all hours on Sundays and Saturdays then measures do need to be taken to respect the rights of the religious in the workforce to observe the Sabbath
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
How many of these "cultural" Christians would refuse Sunday employment in principle?
If we are to respect minority rights that has to include practicing Christians
What % of the workforce are "practising" Christians?
What percentage are homosexuals, ethnic minorities etc, in a free country you should respect minority rights
So how many homosexuals would refuse Sunday employment?
You allow homosexuals to express their sexual identity, you allow the religious to practice their beliefs
If more shops open at all hours on Sundays and Saturdays then measures do need to be taken to respect the rights of the religious in the workforce to observe the Sabbath
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
How many of these "cultural" Christians would refuse Sunday employment in principle?
If we are to respect minority rights that has to include practicing Christians
What % of the workforce are "practising" Christians?
What percentage are homosexuals, ethnic minorities etc, in a free country you should respect minority rights
So how many homosexuals would refuse Sunday employment?
You allow homosexuals to express their sexual identity, you allow the religious to practice their beliefs
How would homosexuals' expression of their sexual identity preclude them from working on a Sunday?
As the only current breadwinner in my household I am totally opposed to shops being open for any longer than they are now. In fact, I'd back fewer hours and a ban on internet shopping.
If more shops open at all hours on Sundays and Saturdays then measures do need to be taken to respect the rights of the religious in the workforce to observe the Sabbath
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
How many of these "cultural" Christians would refuse Sunday employment in principle?
If we are to respect minority rights that has to include practicing Christians
What % of the workforce are "practising" Christians?
What percentage are homosexuals, ethnic minorities etc, in a free country you should respect minority rights
So how many homosexuals would refuse Sunday employment?
You allow homosexuals to express their sexual identity, you allow the religious to practice their beliefs
How homosexuals' expression of their sexual identity preclude them working on a Sunday?
Homosexuality was unlawful until the 1960s, anyway I think we have got the point am off to Wimbledon for the evening
If more shops open at all hours on Sundays and Saturdays then measures do need to be taken to respect the rights of the religious in the workforce to observe the Sabbath
If we get to 24/7 shopping there is greater risk of religious workers being unable to adjust their shift patterns to respect their Sabbath Day then anyone missing getting a pint of milk of an evening!
I think it's the other way around. If you're not working on your Sabbath Day then you need to be working at some other time, and if you close off a bunch of other times then you have less leeway to come up with a shift that leaves the day you want clear.
If everybody had the same day then I suppose you could shut everything down on that day, but there are a bunch of different religious and for whatever reason they don't seem to be able to agree which day it should be.
Provided enough Jewish, Muslim, non-religious workers are able to work on Sunday evenings and Christians and non-religious workers are available to work on Saturdays
There would probably be more non-religious people than Church-goers.
Depends if you include Christmas, Easter, Weddings, Baptisms, Funerals etc, only the most devoted Atheist refuses to ever set foot in a Church
How many of these "cultural" Christians would refuse Sunday employment in principle?
If we are to respect minority rights that has to include practicing Christians
What % of the workforce are "practising" Christians?
What percentage are homosexuals, ethnic minorities etc, in a free country you should respect minority rights
So how many homosexuals would refuse Sunday employment?
You allow homosexuals to express their sexual identity, you allow the religious to practice their beliefs
How homosexuals' expression of their sexual identity preclude them working on a Sunday?
Homosexuality was unlawful until the 1960s, anyway I think we have got the point am off to Wimbledon for the evening
And Sunday trading was unlawful until much more recently than that!
Homosexuality was unlawful until the 1960s, anyway I think we have got the point am off to Wimbledon for the evening
And Sunday trading was unlawful until much more recently than that!
And compelling the religious to work on their Sabbath day would prohibit their practice of their belief, so we need to see what is in the Bill to protect that, anyway am off now
And compelling the religious to work on their Sabbath day would prohibit their practice of their belief, so we need to see what is in the Bill to protect that, anyway am off now
There will be nothing in the Bill, for the very good reason that this is already well covered in existing employment law:
And compelling the religious to work on their Sabbath day would prohibit their practice of their belief, so we need to see what is in the Bill to protect that, anyway am off now
There will be nothing in the Bill, for the very good reason that this is already well covered in existing employment law:
Depends on how contracts are drawn up and measures to ensure no-one is required to include extra hours in their contract on a Sunday if it goes against their beliefs
Depends on how contracts are drawn up and measures to ensure no-one is required to include extra hours in their contract on a Sunday if it goes against their beliefs
They will be drawn up in EXACTLY the same way as now.
You do understand that businesses already operate on Sundays, right? There is no new principle here.
And compelling the religious to work on their Sabbath day would prohibit their practice of their belief, so we need to see what is in the Bill to protect that, anyway am off now
There will be nothing in the Bill, for the very good reason that this is already well covered in existing employment law:
Depends on how contracts are drawn up and measures to ensure no-one is required to include extra hours in their contract on a Sunday if it goes against their beliefs
But this simply must be covered in existing legislation - there is no difference between a christian Cineworld worker, or even a Tesco "Extra" (Sub 3000 sq ft shop) and a christian Tesco worker.
But this simply must be covered in existing legislation - there is no difference between a christian Cineworld worker, or even a Tesco "Extra" (Sub 3000 sq ft shop) and a christian Tesco worker.
This is a complete red herring.
The ones I feel sorry for are vicars. They have to work every Sunday.
Incredible. Still pissed that I sold my sizable position on NO to win at the last minute. The polls were off and there may have a large element of shy NO voters or the YES voters were "no show." First time in more than two decades of political betting that my last-minute instinct failed me... Part of the problem for me was that the Greek pollsters didn't publish anything about their methodology so that it felt like moving in the dark... The one thing that caused me to swing was Paul Mason's statement that some in the government expected YES to win so it seems that just about everybody must have been taken by surprise.
Jeroen Dijsselbloem, president of the Eurogroup, is giving his statement now.
He says that eurozone finance ministers will hold a conference call on Wednesday to discuss a request from Greece for financial assistance through the European Stability Mechanism.
He confirms that the Greek government did not submit a written request today - remarkable, really, given the urgency of the crisis now -- but will produce one by tomorrow.
Jeroen Dijsselbloem, president of the Eurogroup, is giving his statement now.
He says that eurozone finance ministers will hold a conference call on Wednesday to discuss a request from Greece for financial assistance through the European Stability Mechanism.
He confirms that the Greek government did not submit a written request today - remarkable, really, given the urgency of the crisis now -- but will produce one by tomorrow.
It seems like Labour, once again, are going in the direction of protecting a very specific group of workers over the interests of the general public. They did it with the miners, they did it with civil servants, they did it with teachers, they did it with tube drivers and now they're doing it with retail workers.
The last 'tory led government' increased the retirement ages. It also cut spending. It also put up VAT. The current tory govt is cutting benefits spending and searching out tax avoidance. But hey lets let Greece and the Greeks get away with it. I imagine official bribery as you suggest is widespread in places like africa and in the far east - probably Russia. But it should not be endemic in Europe, irrespective of the EU the Euro or whatever.
Once again I suggest that its because this govt are doing the right things to reform our broken economy and social security system that we should give it our support.
This is nothing to do with our government so I don't know why you felt the need to put in a quick commercial for them in your reply.
Corruption and bribery are pretty rampant in Greece, Fakelaki ("little envelopes") are commonly passed to public officials to "expedite" services or change official amounts. The same is true in Italy, where is is perfectly normal to agree the amount of tax you pay over a couple of bottles of wine, also the amount that will be passed under the table to facilitate this consideration. In my experience a cut from all these payments are paid to their boss, and he passes on a cut of his aggregate payments to his boss and so forth. This means there is no interest from the middle ranking civil servant in promoting reform,because it cuts into their own profits, and they obstruct reform as often as they can. Recent studies in Greece suggest that almost a billion euros a year are paid by the public in these sort of payments, and rather more than a billion by corporations and businesses.
You make my point very well. As for our govt. Of course the issue and the principle behind it has to do with us. We are being urged by the left to be a bit like Greece and howl blue murder over 'austerity'. One of the first words Corbyn uttered in his recent QT appearance was 'austerity' and I think they were talking about cross mediterranean immigration from Africa! It was grotesque self serving sloganising.
Indeed. But my original point was that bitching about the Greek government having not made the changes required to get the bailouts is futile. Increasing the tax take can't be done by passing a few laws when the entire culture of your tax collecting apparatus opposes it and will confound it at every turn, its going to take a couple of decades minimum, Italy has been trying for ages and made almost no progress, similarly a number of Asian governments. Before that can happen a government needs to get elected on a platform of making those sort of changes, and that is almost certain not to happen either because too many people profit from the current system.
Jeroen Dijsselbloem, president of the Eurogroup, is giving his statement now.
He says that eurozone finance ministers will hold a conference call on Wednesday to discuss a request from Greece for financial assistance through the European Stability Mechanism.
He confirms that the Greek government did not submit a written request today - remarkable, really, given the urgency of the crisis now -- but will produce one by tomorrow.
Jeroen Dijsselbloem, president of the Eurogroup, is giving his statement now.
He says that eurozone finance ministers will hold a conference call on Wednesday to discuss a request from Greece for financial assistance through the European Stability Mechanism.
He confirms that the Greek government did not submit a written request today - remarkable, really, given the urgency of the crisis now -- but will produce one by tomorrow.
I am a practicing Christian and would prefer not to work on Sunday. For that reason, I would avoid taking a job that requires me to work on Sunday, whether in retail or any other industry.
And compelling the religious to work on their Sabbath day would prohibit their practice of their belief, so we need to see what is in the Bill to protect that, anyway am off now
There will be nothing in the Bill, for the very good reason that this is already well covered in existing employment law:
Depends on how contracts are drawn up and measures to ensure no-one is required to include extra hours in their contract on a Sunday if it goes against their beliefs
But this simply must be covered in existing legislation - there is no difference between a christian Cineworld worker, or even a Tesco "Extra" (Sub 3000 sq ft shop) and a christian Tesco worker.
This is a complete red herring.
Agreed. I fail to see why one set of workers should be protected when everyone else just has to take their chances with whatever is asked by the company.
Those complaining about Sunday working should maybe consider those whose jobs force them to work at Christmas or other bank holidays. One million people in Britain worked last Christmas Day. Most of them would rather have not but they did so because it is their job.
O/T looking at the migrant crisis in Calais. Can't we load them all on a ferry and ship them back to Libya? I'm sure the cost of that is less than all the policing etc. After a few round trips even the most ardent migrant will think twice about trying to get to the UK/Northern Europe.
At the very least, we should pressure the French to do their job. Perhaps we could single out French trucks for migrant searches in Dover until they stop turning a blind eye.
This time round I've not taken much of a betting position on the Labour party leadership contest. I've confined myself to opposing manifestly wrong odds (Yvette Cooper was way too long for a while, Andy Burnham was way too short for a while and now Liz Kendall is way too short). Like our host, I'm trying not to take unnecessary positions since the race seems quite open.
The race isn't yet half-run. So conclusions as yet are dangerous. Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Kendall have each given Labour supporters a clear rationale for voting for them. It appears that Liz Kendall's rationale appeals to too few Labour supporters at present, while Jeremy Corbyn has a stronger emotional pull for Labour supporters but is not transfer-friendly. He has a very outside chance of getting an unassailable lead on the first round of voting, but he looks more likely to be a spoiler than a winner.
Both Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper have so far campaigned on who they are rather than where they would go. Presumably they intend moving the conversation on at some point, as Andy Burnham is apparently trying to do here. My suspicion is that the winner will be whichever of these two is able to persuade the Labour faithful that they can speak to a wider constituency while not losing sight of their Labour roots. At present Andy Burnham looks to me to be doing better but it seems all to play for to me.
This time round I've not taken much of a betting position on the Labour party leadership contest. I've confined myself to opposing manifestly wrong odds (Yvette Cooper was way too long for a while, Andy Burnham was way too short for a while and now Liz Kendall is way too short). Like our host, I'm trying not to take unnecessary positions since the race seems quite open.
The race isn't yet half-run. So conclusions as yet are dangerous. Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Kendall have each given Labour supporters a clear rationale for voting for them. It appears that Liz Kendall's rationale appeals to too few Labour supporters at present, while Jeremy Corbyn has a stronger emotional pull for Labour supporters but is not transfer-friendly. He has a very outside chance of getting an unassailable lead on the first round of voting, but he looks more likely to be a spoiler than a winner.
Both Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper have so far campaigned on who they are rather than where they would go. Presumably they intend moving the conversation on at some point, as Andy Burnham is apparently trying to do here. My suspicion is that the winner will be whichever of these two is able to persuade the Labour faithful that they can speak to a wider constituency while not losing sight of their Labour roots. At present Andy Burnham looks to me to be doing better but it seems all to play for to me.
Anyway, I'm not taking a position on this yet.
You are confusing supporters with those entitled to vote in the leadership election, surely.
As well as the collective hustings each leadership candidate is addressing individual constituency parties and answering questions from members at these. From what I have heard there is a lot more policy talked at these events.
Depends on how contracts are drawn up and measures to ensure no-one is required to include extra hours in their contract on a Sunday if it goes against their beliefs
They will be drawn up in EXACTLY the same way as now.
You do understand that businesses already operate on Sundays, right? There is no new principle here.
HYUFD - not to dilly dally around - is as thick as a plank. We've had a whole afternoon of this nonsense based on a non-existent proposal to enforce Sunday working, entirely because of his absurd devotion to Labour's great white hope - Andy Burnham. When Adny speaks HYUFD is all over him like a rash. It has not been pleasant.
And compelling the religious to work on their Sabbath day would prohibit their practice of their belief, so we need to see what is in the Bill to protect that, anyway am off now
There will be nothing in the Bill, for the very good reason that this is already well covered in existing employment law:
Depends on how contracts are drawn up and measures to ensure no-one is required to include extra hours in their contract on a Sunday if it goes against their beliefs
But this simply must be covered in existing legislation - there is no difference between a christian Cineworld worker, or even a Tesco "Extra" (Sub 3000 sq ft shop) and a christian Tesco worker.
This is a complete red herring.
Agreed. I fail to see why one set of workers should be protected when everyone else just has to take their chances with whatever is asked by the company.
Those complaining about Sunday working should maybe consider those whose jobs force them to work at Christmas or other bank holidays. One million people in Britain worked last Christmas Day. Most of them would rather have not but they did so because it is their job.
My mother in law was taken ill last Christmas Day, two paramedics arrived in double quick time. They were both young with kids of their own and were working a 12-hour shift.
They were fantastic, as were the staff at hospital.
Who would be in the top Shadow Cabinet positions? Cooper, Burnham, Benn, Reeves etc or a group of Corbyn supporters?
Would Cooper, Burnham, Benn, Reeves etc go along with Corbyn's policies?
The make-up of the shadow cabinet is indeed going to be interesting. If Corbyn beats Kendall, then it will be hard to defend the shadow cabinet being as over-represented by the Kendallist ultra-Blairite loony faction as they currently are.
If I were Burnham I'd do the same. There isn't huge demand for the change from consumers - the demand is really only coming from people who want to increase their profits. Of course we need to support business, but it's ridiculous to suggest that's the only important aim of politics or society.
On this matter specifically, if it's rolled up with legislation affecting Scotland that would be another matter entirely.
Did you not see the EVEL debate? The SNP are in full on whinge mode about not voting on anything
The last thing I heard from the SNP (Wishart I think) on the matter was that for instance a change to England and Wales NHS funding would affect Scotland via a Barnet consequential, and thus it would not be an England and Wales only issue.
One may argue that the Barnet formula should be scrapped, but his point seemed valid enough. Sunday working hours in England can't have any impact on Scotland so far as I can tell so would only be opposed if it was part of a wider series of measures aka "The budget"
This time round I've not taken much of a betting position on the Labour party leadership contest. I've confined myself to opposing manifestly wrong odds (Yvette Cooper was way too long for a while, Andy Burnham was way too short for a while and now Liz Kendall is way too short). Like our host, I'm trying not to take unnecessary positions since the race seems quite open.
The race isn't yet half-run. So conclusions as yet are dangerous. Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Kendall have each given Labour supporters a clear rationale for voting for them. It appears that Liz Kendall's rationale appeals to too few Labour supporters at present, while Jeremy Corbyn has a stronger emotional pull for Labour supporters but is not transfer-friendly. He has a very outside chance of getting an unassailable lead on the first round of voting, but he looks more likely to be a spoiler than a winner.
Both Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper have so far campaigned on who they are rather than where they would go. Presumably they intend moving the conversation on at some point, as Andy Burnham is apparently trying to do here. My suspicion is that the winner will be whichever of these two is able to persuade the Labour faithful that they can speak to a wider constituency while not losing sight of their Labour roots. At present Andy Burnham looks to me to be doing better but it seems all to play for to me.
Anyway, I'm not taking a position on this yet.
Not a bad analysis but I think some benefit accrues from being perceived as "the front runner"... Also with union members seemingly not signing up in the same numbers as they voted in the past, the dynamics of the race are a bit different this time round... Burnham has the key advantage that he talks like "an outsider" even if he really is "an insider" (having spent most of his working life inside the Westminster bubble). He doesn't just have the northern accent, he's also able to convey complex issues in plain English without coming across as wooden (Yvette) or pedantic (Liz). His personal story is more compelling to ordinary voters than that of the other candidates... And he's telegenic. I think voters are looking for a candidate that can bring back the bacon for Labour and look completely at ease when eating that bacon sandwich... In fact, I think this race is Andy's to lose just like it is for Farron.
Expect a sharp increase in sales of champers, cigars and stitches for sides.
Possible but unlikely. If there is a perception that he will win, many will coalesce around the one person that is perceived to be most likely to beat him.
Expect a sharp increase in sales of champers, cigars and stitches for sides.
Possible but unlikely. If there is a perception that he will win, many will coalesce around the one person that is perceived to be most likely to beat him.
I suspect you are correct - Labour selecting Jeremy Corbyn as leader has been likened to a corpse, handing out hammer and nails to an old socialist to seal their coffin. They want to avoid that all cost I'd imagine.
Expect a sharp increase in sales of champers, cigars and stitches for sides.
Possible but unlikely. If there is a perception that he will win, many will coalesce around the one person that is perceived to be most likely to beat him.
How will they know until it is too late? Remember Ed. He was astonished as everyone else when it was announced that he had edged out his brother. Without accurate polling the membership will be voting blind and if it turns out the Corbyn is in pole position it will be too late to do anything about it.
It is one of the many reasons that having unelectables like him in the contest was a serious mistake.
Exodus 23:12 "Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest, and so that the slave born in your household and the foreigner living among you may be refreshed."
@SophyRidgeSky: Dutch PM: "I'm very cheerless about this summit and I'm very cheerless about the fact whether Greece wants to come with proposals at all"
@SophyRidgeSky: Dutch PM: "It's up to the Greek government to come with the far reaching proposals, if they don't I think it will be over soon"
Expect a sharp increase in sales of champers, cigars and stitches for sides.
Possible but unlikely. If there is a perception that he will win, many will coalesce around the one person that is perceived to be most likely to beat him.
How will they know until it is too late? Remember Ed. He was astonished as everyone else when it was announced that he had edged out his brother. Without accurate polling the membership will be voting blind and if it turns out the Corbyn is in pole position it will be too late to do anything about it.
It is one of the many reasons that having unelectables like him in the contest was a serious mistake.
I'm sure there will be polls (lots of them) when the time comes and those polls will show who's best placed to beat him. For some voters this will be a consideration, they won't be voting blind... That's why it ultimately suits Andy to have Jeremy in the mix. (The moment Jeremy signed up was the time I started buying Andy.)
Comments
Um, does that count?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Humanist_and_Ethical_Union
For what it's worth, I'm an atheist but used the free text field to declare that 'Arsene Knows', which was followed by Arsenal spectacularly collapsing and finishing a distant fourth.
"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.".
Nothing about need. But this is the kind of tedious, tendentious crap we used to go through on alt.atheism (mainly pulverising young earth creationists), I shall graciously bow out and allow you the final word.
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make His way home
Keep Sunday Sexual
If the State did not do this then they would (on the same hypothesis) have to work somewhere else for more or move somewhere cheaper so they can afford to work for the minimum wage. To say that CTC has "nothing to do with us" is simply incorrect. It increases the supply of labour to you and reduces its price.
As a libertarian, I personally am in favor of longer opening hours. Having talked to retailers in other countries about this topic, I get the distinct impression that they generally seem to think longer opening hours will not result in more turnover overall (it will just be more spread out) but that it will increase their working hours and labour costs. The situation is different in border regions where people can readily travel to another country with different laws but that does not hold true here.
I cannot believe people are getting worked up over this little bit of localism.
Can we not stop yet again and think. When you sit down on Saturday and order something on line to be delivered Monday ... well do you think it happens by magic or is it because all sorts of people are working Saturdays and Sundays and early Monday morning??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIoubZxJrO0
That is the relevant verse I believe
I've heard that the Greek turned up at the Eurogroup meeting without a new proposal today. Apparently, it's not going to be ready until tomorrow.
Fair to say, European finance ministers are not pleased at having been dragged to Brussels to hear a proposal that doesn't yet exist.
And you have to wonder what the Greeks are playing at. It's one thing not to have a Plan B, it's another altogether not to have a Plan A.
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy
http://www.leftfutures.org/2015/07/be-in-no-doubt-jeremy-corbyn-could-win-this-contest/
Note the assumed position of Liz Kendall.
It is weird. He has all the power (in there), so there's no need for him to be rude at all.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/womens-singles/live-scores
Looks like the game the Greeks are playing is "whack-a-state".
It's all playing out much as expected.
I think it's a flawed analysis in a number of ways... Going for 2nd preferences is not a winning strategy... The best strategy is to reach out to as many special interest groups as possible and take the centrist ground. In my reading, Cooper is not the real centrist in this race, rather it is Andy Burnham... Cooper is the "continuity candidate" given her association with Ed Balls.
In any case, I'd discount Luke Akehurst because he's part of the Cooper campaign:
"Yvette Cooper's campaign team have released a list of MPs backing her in her bid for the Labour leadership. A source said they had more than the 35 required to guarantee a place on the ballot paper, although they are not saying exactly how many have offered their support. Former ministers Chris Bryant, David Hanson and John Healey are among the named MPs. Hazel Blears' former special adviser Paul Richards and activist Luke Akehurst will also work on the campaign, said the source, alongside regional organisers Shelia Murphy and Caroline Badley."
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-32727175
Of course, he's going to talk up the probability of his "horse" winning the race, just as Polly Toynbee would who worked together with Yvette Cooper. And he's trying to craft a narrative to boot...
Disclosure: I'm 15K long on Andy Burnham.
The timing of "Sally's affair" coming out in the papers was strange...
As the only current breadwinner in my household I am totally opposed to shops being open for any longer than they are now. In fact, I'd back fewer hours and a ban on internet shopping.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-polls-were-bad-in-greece-the-conventional-wisdom-was-worse/
Are you deep blood red on Yvette ?
Homosexuality was unlawful until the 1960s, anyway I think we have got the point am off to Wimbledon for the evening
And Sunday trading was unlawful until much more recently than that!
And compelling the religious to work on their Sabbath day would prohibit their practice of their belief, so we need to see what is in the Bill to protect that, anyway am off now
https://www.gov.uk/sunday-working
You do understand that businesses already operate on Sundays, right? There is no new principle here.
This is a complete red herring.
Incredible. Still pissed that I sold my sizable position on NO to win at the last minute. The polls were off and there may have a large element of shy NO voters or the YES voters were "no show." First time in more than two decades of political betting that my last-minute instinct failed me... Part of the problem for me was that the Greek pollsters didn't publish anything about their methodology so that it felt like moving in the dark... The one thing that caused me to swing was Paul Mason's statement that some in the government expected YES to win so it seems that just about everybody must have been taken by surprise.
He says that eurozone finance ministers will hold a conference call on Wednesday to discuss a request from Greece for financial assistance through the European Stability Mechanism.
He confirms that the Greek government did not submit a written request today - remarkable, really, given the urgency of the crisis now -- but will produce one by tomorrow.
I am a practicing Christian and would prefer not to work on Sunday. For that reason, I would avoid taking a job that requires me to work on Sunday, whether in retail or any other industry.
Those complaining about Sunday working should maybe consider those whose jobs force them to work at Christmas or other bank holidays. One million people in Britain worked last Christmas Day. Most of them would rather have not but they did so because it is their job.
The race isn't yet half-run. So conclusions as yet are dangerous. Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Kendall have each given Labour supporters a clear rationale for voting for them. It appears that Liz Kendall's rationale appeals to too few Labour supporters at present, while Jeremy Corbyn has a stronger emotional pull for Labour supporters but is not transfer-friendly. He has a very outside chance of getting an unassailable lead on the first round of voting, but he looks more likely to be a spoiler than a winner.
Both Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper have so far campaigned on who they are rather than where they would go. Presumably they intend moving the conversation on at some point, as Andy Burnham is apparently trying to do here. My suspicion is that the winner will be whichever of these two is able to persuade the Labour faithful that they can speak to a wider constituency while not losing sight of their Labour roots. At present Andy Burnham looks to me to be doing better but it seems all to play for to me.
Anyway, I'm not taking a position on this yet.
Put a bit more on any tie-break than one in the first set, and it was 3.25 anyway, so slightly up today.
If he does, what happens?
Who would be in the top Shadow Cabinet positions? Cooper, Burnham, Benn, Reeves etc or a group of Corbyn supporters?
Would Cooper, Burnham, Benn, Reeves etc go along with Corbyn's policies?
As well as the collective hustings each leadership candidate is addressing individual constituency parties and answering questions from members at these. From what I have heard there is a lot more policy talked at these events.
They were fantastic, as were the staff at hospital.
One may argue that the Barnet formula should be scrapped, but his point seemed valid enough. Sunday working hours in England can't have any impact on Scotland so far as I can tell so would only be opposed if it was part of a wider series of measures aka "The budget"
It is one of the many reasons that having unelectables like him in the contest was a serious mistake.
"Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest, and so that the slave born in your household and the foreigner living among you may be refreshed."
Antifrank says "For the wider electorate, this is a vote-loser."
I think you guys might be right. Anyway I don't take seriously people with Velcro eyebrows.
@SophyRidgeSky: Dutch PM: "It's up to the Greek government to come with the far reaching proposals, if they don't I think it will be over soon"