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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Burnham comes out against extending Sunday shopping hours

SystemSystem Posts: 11,723
edited July 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Burnham comes out against extending Sunday shopping hours

The big battle on Sunday trading was fought in the early 90s and the current arrangement under which the opening hours of large supermarkets was restricted to six hours was very much a compromise.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    Hmm...
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Tim Montgomerie is also opposed to these reforms.

    I can't think of any better endorsement for this policy than that.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    Not so sure about this. There's 24 hour shopping online, the High Street needs to try and catch up.

    Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting One True Voice is not the Messiah?

    FPT: Bit quiet, but those into motorsport might be interested in Rallycross. Saw a little last night (I was channel-hopping whilst waiting for news on the dog). Very short races, but quite exciting. It was on Quest (Freeview 37, give or take) about 8pm.

    No betting opportunities, though.

    When Hungary gets going, I'll check for No Safety Car. The Hungaroring is notable for being tedious, and also for having the fewest safety cars of any circuit. The track is wide, there's lots of run-off and the corners are medium speed which means overtaking/following is hard (decreasing car-to-car collisions) and the odds on a high speed crash into the barriers are long.

    Safety Car isn't impossible, though, as reliability's a bit rubbish for some teams this year and a breakdown in certain areas would demand one. Uncertain if the Virtual Safety Car counts (there have been two this year but both occurred in races which also saw a real one emerge).
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    For the wider electorate, this is a vote-loser. The public want to shop. For the Labour party electorate it may be quite a smart move because union workers like such policies.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    Not so sure about this. There's 24 hour shopping online, the High Street needs to try and catch up.

    Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting One True Voice is not the Messiah?

    He is the worst political pundit the Tories have.

    Some of his pieces/tweets before the election, confirmed that.

    He's like a Tory Sion Simon.

    And condolences on the news of your hound.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    edited July 2015
    Soubry:

    "Yes, she knows some people like to go to church and switch off but she thinks more flexible retail options will brighten up Sundays."

    'Brighten up sundays' - make it a bit more convienient for people like me who sometimes fancy doing a bit of a shop at 7 pm on a Sunday but it's stretching the point to say it'll "brighten up a Sunday" doing a grocery shop !

    I am in favour of the Tory proposal, mind.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218
    edited July 2015
    This will certainly turn off libertarians, but they would never back Burnham anyway. However, it will go down well with traditionalist, churchgoing religious voters, including some natural Conservatives. It may also go down well in parts of Scotland too, don't forget in the Western Isles the Sabbath is still sacred and there is no Sunday trading even today
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,059

    'Spy chiefs are warning that new and terrible atrocities are inevitable in the UK – and security services may not be able to stop them.

    The dire warning comes as a Mirror survey reveals up to 1.5 million Britons could be supporters of Islamic State.

    On the 10th anniversary of the 7/7 bombings highlights hardcore support for the terror network, with one in 11 Brits holding a “positive” view of the group.

    But the disturbing poll of 2,016 British adults taken over the weekend also found support for the group was up 2% to 9%.

    It found 3% have a “very favourable view”, up 1% from a year ago – suggesting around half of Britain’s three million Muslims could be IS sympathisers.'

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-terror-attacks-inevitable-theres-6016015
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,520
    FPT

    "Indeed, only this morning Juncker wailed that he had "tried very hard. If only everybody else had tried as hard.""

    Cameron was so right about that man.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited July 2015
    On topic - Burnham shows his significant unsuitability for the job if he is against this - he's the continuity panda candidate.

    He's probably against the spinning jenny, Uber and privatisation of British Airways.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TGOHF said:
    Since we don't yet know who the next Labour leader is going to be it seems a little premature to be speculating about who he or she might be choosing to put in their shadow Cabinet.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    @isam I wish they'd include a link to the survey they refer to. Especially as it's their own.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218

    Not so sure about this. There's 24 hour shopping online, the High Street needs to try and catch up.

    Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting One True Voice is not the Messiah?

    FPT: Bit quiet, but those into motorsport might be interested in Rallycross. Saw a little last night (I was channel-hopping whilst waiting for news on the dog). Very short races, but quite exciting. It was on Quest (Freeview 37, give or take) about 8pm.

    No betting opportunities, though.

    When Hungary gets going, I'll check for No Safety Car. The Hungaroring is notable for being tedious, and also for having the fewest safety cars of any circuit. The track is wide, there's lots of run-off and the corners are medium speed which means overtaking/following is hard (decreasing car-to-car collisions) and the odds on a high speed crash into the barriers are long.

    Safety Car isn't impossible, though, as reliability's a bit rubbish for some teams this year and a breakdown in certain areas would demand one. Uncertain if the Virtual Safety Car counts (there have been two this year but both occurred in races which also saw a real one emerge).

    I don't think shops trading until 10pm rather than 4pm on a Sunday is going to make much difference to their battle with online shopping, the only way they could do that would be to open 24/7. The best shops have an online presence and take orders online anyway
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Pulpstar said:

    @isam I wish they'd include a link to the survey they refer to. Especially as it's their own.

    Is an ICM poll.

    Data tables aren't up yet.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,787
    Better to close on Sunday and stay open longer Monday to Friday. It's crazy leaving work at 5 to make a mad dash to a retailer that shuts at 5:30.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    antifrank said:

    TGOHF said:
    Since we don't yet know who the next Labour leader is going to be it seems a little premature to be speculating about who he or she might be choosing to put in their shadow Cabinet.
    ""If the new leader wants to go down the unity route, they would have to offer jobs to Corbyn and some of his supporters," the Labour source told the newspaper.

    But they also warned: "It would cause outrage among other MPs and probably see resignations from current Shadow Cabinet members.""
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    Labour needs to come out against stuff like this

    Field writes: “My constituents tell me that despite submitting a DS 1500 form drawing attention to a terminal illness, they have been asked directly to their face whether they think they will soon die and by what date they expect to be dead. In one case my constituent’s mother was asked by when she expected her daughter to die and in front of her daughter.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/06/terminally-ill-benefit-claimants-asked-when-they-expect-to-die-mp-says?CMP=share_btn_fb

    Rather than Sunday shopping.

    Back it but insist there is a carrot in there for the workers as a quid pro quo.

    I expect Kendall will be in favour, and Corbyn against. Cooper's positioning will be interesting.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,283
    Does he think this is a dog whistle for the Christian vote, if such a think exists?
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Sunday shopping seems such a trivial thing to get on your high horse about. - I’d have thought Burnham would have learned from the previous leader that band-wagon hopping, instead of addressing serious concerns goes down like a lead balloon with the voters.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,520
    I would sweep away all of these restrictions. They are anachronisms and an inappropriate use of the law. Just because it is legal for a shop or business is open doesn't mean that they have to do so. That is a decision that should be taken in the context of the shop.

    Tescos up here, like other main supermarkets, is open 24 hours 7 days a week. My favourite cheese shop is shut on both Sundays and Mondays. Each choice no doubt reflects the business model and choice of the proprietors. What has the law got to do with it?

    If someone does not want to work Sundays then they need to get a job where that is not a part of the business model. Again, what does the law have to do with it?

    Burnham is showing poor judgment here.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Not so sure about this. There's 24 hour shopping online, the High Street needs to try and catch up.

    Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting One True Voice is not the Messiah?

    He is the worst political pundit the Tories have.

    Some of his pieces/tweets before the election, confirmed that.

    He's like a Tory Sion Simon.

    And condolences on the news of your hound.
    Remember this classic piece of campaign advice for Lynton

    Tim Montgomerie ن ✔@montie
    Embarrassing: Way too personal from Michael Fallon against Ed Miliband

    :D
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas :)

    To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028

    Better to close on Sunday and stay open longer Monday to Friday. It's crazy leaving work at 5 to make a mad dash to a retailer that shuts at 5:30.

    That's the retailer's choice, mind. The TESCO near me now is open 24 hrs already - 6 on a Sunday. If it was allowed I'd assume it'd be open 24/7 on the Sunday.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024
    edited July 2015
    The reports I saw today said not that the plan was to liberalise Sunday trading hours, rather to devolve the regulatory powers to cities and counties - so that the elected representatives at those levels could make decisions on what is best for them, rather than being dictated to by Whitehall. Seems reasonable to me, more of the same tomorrow please.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/11721480/Budget-2015-Shops-to-trade-for-longer-on-Sundays-under-radical-new-plans.html
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    O/T Returning to the Greek situation. Couldn't a face saver be for the EU to assume the whole of the Greek debt on a 0% interest no repayment date basis so that Greece doesn't have to pay back anything and can wait for inflation to erode the capital?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    @DavidL Your local Tesco sounds like it is breaking the law to me.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    Thanks, Mr. Eagles.

    Are you suggesting he's (to use a more up to date comparison) the Conservative Owen Jones?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,671
    Certainly a big improvement in conviction from 'There is a case to be made for more public ownership of our railways'. Obviously an attempt to pull away from meaningless platitudes and stand for something.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Better to close on Sunday and stay open longer Monday to Friday. It's crazy leaving work at 5 to make a mad dash to a retailer that shuts at 5:30.

    Better to leave it up to the shop when to open and when to close.

    No doubt the SNP will oppose this on the grounds that it is a convenient topic to legislate for a petty differential between Scotland and England.

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Pulpstar said:

    Better to close on Sunday and stay open longer Monday to Friday. It's crazy leaving work at 5 to make a mad dash to a retailer that shuts at 5:30.

    That's the retailer's choice, mind. The TESCO near me now is open 24 hrs already - 6 on a Sunday. If it was allowed I'd assume it'd be open 24/7 on the Sunday.
    Different Sunday Trading laws in Scotland
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    @DavidL Your local Tesco sounds like it is breaking the law to me.

    There are different rules in Scotland:

    https://www.gov.uk/trading-hours-for-retailers-the-law

    It would be good to know what Andy Burnham thinks of them.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218
    edited July 2015
    felix said:

    Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas :)

    To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.

    What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs, indeed the religious Tim Montgomerie, former editor of conservativehome and IDS' former aide backs Burnham on this. In Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbath
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,671
    TGOHF said:

    Not so sure about this. There's 24 hour shopping online, the High Street needs to try and catch up.

    Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting One True Voice is not the Messiah?

    He is the worst political pundit the Tories have.

    Some of his pieces/tweets before the election, confirmed that.

    He's like a Tory Sion Simon.

    And condolences on the news of your hound.
    Remember this classic piece of campaign advice for Lynton

    Tim Montgomerie ن ✔@montie
    Embarrassing: Way too personal from Michael Fallon against Ed Miliband

    :D
    Not sure of your point - it was embarrassing, and it was way too personal.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas :)

    To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.

    What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs and in Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbath
    Unions with shop workers oppose it too:

    http://www.usdaw.org.uk/About-Us/News/2012/April/Usdaw-members-overwhelmingly-oppose-suspension-of
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    Thanks, Mr. Eagles.

    Are you suggesting he's (to use a more up to date comparison) the Conservative Owen Jones?

    Yes, I work on the principle of doing exactly the opposite of what Tim Montgomerie says.

    Remember, he was IDS' Chief of Staff when IDS was Tory leader, we all know what a halcyon period that was for the Tory party.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Not so sure about this. There's 24 hour shopping online, the High Street needs to try and catch up.

    Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting One True Voice is not the Messiah?

    He is the worst political pundit the Tories have.

    Some of his pieces/tweets before the election, confirmed that.

    He's like a Tory Sion Simon.

    And condolences on the news of your hound.
    Remember this classic piece of campaign advice for Lynton

    Tim Montgomerie ن ✔@montie
    Embarrassing: Way too personal from Michael Fallon against Ed Miliband

    :D
    Not sure of your point - it was embarrassing, and it was way too personal.
    And highly effective in changing the topic.

    Montie too naive to figure this out.


  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,229
    @isam

    I always think those survey should also contain a 'placebo' question:

    "What do you think about the activities of the PTTQ group?"

    Obviously, have "Don't know" as an answer. I would guess as many as a third of people would not admit ignorance, and would give a random answer.

    Believe it or not, there is a substantial minority of people who don't actually know who ISIS is, and if asked would think it likely to be a shop or a charity. (There was a business called ISIS that rapidly rebranded itself).
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855
    DavidL said:


    Burnham is showing poor judgment here.

    But its typical Burnham - protect the producer - not the consumer.

    When Hitchingbroke Hospital announced its return to the NHS Burnham's comment was along the lines of 'Our thoughts are with the staff at this difficult time'

    Patients? What patients?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    Mr. Eagles, are you saying he's the Marcus Minucius Rufus to Cameron's Cunctator?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218
    TGOHF said:

    On topic - Burnham shows his significant unsuitability for the job if he is against this - he's the continuity panda candidate.

    He's probably against the spinning jenny, Uber and privatisation of British Airways.

    Well polls show backing for renationalisation of the railways and gas and electricity industries, it is not a minority view, even though I disagree with it
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    edited July 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    @isam

    I always think those survey should also contain a 'placebo' question:

    "What do you think about the activities of the PTTQ group?"

    Obviously, have "Don't know" as an answer. I would guess as many as a third of people would not admit ignorance, and would give a random answer.

    Believe it or not, there is a substantial minority of people who don't actually know who ISIS is, and if asked would think it likely to be a shop or a charity. (There was a business called ISIS that rapidly rebranded itself).

    Well, from last month,

    Andy Burnham is the slight favourite to become the next leader of the Labour party, as he is preferred by 15 per cent of people.

    An Ipsos Mori poll shows that 14 per cent of British adults support Yvette Cooper as the next Labour leader - just one percentage point behind Burnham.

    A fake candidate called "Stewart Lewis" was the preferred choice for three per cent of British adults and six per cent of Labour supporters.

    http://tinyurl.com/BurnhamTheScouseEdMiliband
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:

    On topic - Burnham shows his significant unsuitability for the job if he is against this - he's the continuity panda candidate.

    He's probably against the spinning jenny, Uber and privatisation of British Airways.

    Well polls show backing for renationalisation of the railways and gas and electricity industries, it is not a minority view, even though I disagree with it
    Polls showed most seats was a "coin toss" ...
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    rcs1000 said:

    @isam

    I always think those survey should also contain a 'placebo' question:

    "What do you think about the activities of the PTTQ group?"

    Obviously, have "Don't know" as an answer. I would guess as many as a third of people would not admit ignorance, and would give a random answer.

    Believe it or not, there is a substantial minority of people who don't actually know who ISIS is, and if asked would think it likely to be a shop or a charity. (There was a business called ISIS that rapidly rebranded itself).

    I wish it wasn't true as well
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas :)

    To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.

    What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs, indeed the religious Tim Montgomerie, former editor of conservativehome and IDS' former aide backs Burnham on this. In Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbath
    If you need to ask the question your political nous needs a re-tune. Ditto the point about Tim Montgomerie. Or maybe your love affair with Andy is clouding your judgement.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    Mr. Eagles, are you saying he's the Marcus Minucius Rufus to Cameron's Cunctator?

    I say Tim Montgomerie has all the political nous of Incitatus
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    Mr. Eagles, a vile slur on his* good name!

    *his, of course, meaning Incitatus'.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218
    For what it is worth in recent elections the more religious candidate normally wins. Major was C of E, Kinnock an atheist, Blair a devout Christian who converted to Catholicism and more religious than both Major and Hague (Howard was a practising Jew but less overt about his faith). Brown was probably more religious than Cameron, being the son of the Manse, but the churchgoing Cameron was more religious than the atheist Miliband. Burnham is a Catholic who takes his faith seriously, as indeed is Cooper, neither Boris nor Osborne have shown much interest in religion and certainly do not conduct themselves that way
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    He'll oppose it, it will happen and the only people who will remember are those whose votes Burnham might have secured in the Labour leadership election.

    The much bigger issue around supermarkets is the current wages subsidy the state currently provides them (and many other businesses, of course).
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    @isam

    I always think those survey should also contain a 'placebo' question:

    "What do you think about the activities of the PTTQ group?"

    Obviously, have "Don't know" as an answer. I would guess as many as a third of people would not admit ignorance, and would give a random answer.

    Believe it or not, there is a substantial minority of people who don't actually know who ISIS is, and if asked would think it likely to be a shop or a charity. (There was a business called ISIS that rapidly rebranded itself).

    There have been many businesses called ISIS, named I suspect after the female Egyptian god. When I was a student at Nottingham Uni I used to go to a Nightclub in Nottingham called ISIS, so to me ISIS meant cheap booze etc
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,671
    edited July 2015
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Not so sure about this. There's 24 hour shopping online, the High Street needs to try and catch up.

    Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting One True Voice is not the Messiah?

    He is the worst political pundit the Tories have.

    Some of his pieces/tweets before the election, confirmed that.

    He's like a Tory Sion Simon.

    And condolences on the news of your hound.
    Remember this classic piece of campaign advice for Lynton

    Tim Montgomerie ن ✔@montie
    Embarrassing: Way too personal from Michael Fallon against Ed Miliband

    :D
    Not sure of your point - it was embarrassing, and it was way too personal.
    And highly effective in changing the topic.

    Montie too naive to figure this out.


    I hold no brief to speak for Tim Montgomerie, but perhaps he was genuinely embarrassed, and felt that it was too personal, regardless of any cunningly machiavellian advantages the intervention might have created. I hardly think that the Conservative victory rose or fell with that jowly pillock stepping into the attack dog role.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218
    edited July 2015
    felix said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas :)

    To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.

    What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs, indeed the religious Tim Montgomerie, former editor of conservativehome and IDS' former aide backs Burnham on this. In Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbath
    If you need to ask the question your political nous needs a re-tune. Ditto the point about Tim Montgomerie. Or maybe your love affair with Andy is clouding your judgement.
    Sunday trading is not a left or right issue but a religious v secular issue, liberals and libertartians in both parties would back extending hours, social conservatives and traditionalists would oppose it.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    I'm coming to the conclusion, Mike is not a fan of Andy Burnham.

    This is Mike's reply to a tweet showing Tom Watson is on course to become Deputy Leader

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/618344963835883520
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    Mr. 1983, perhaps, but given Montgomerie's continual sniping about how wrong the Conservatives are on just about everything, it sounds just like a default disagreement with no thought troubling him as the words spill forth.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218
    antifrank said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas :)

    To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.

    What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs and in Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbath
    Unions with shop workers oppose it too:

    http://www.usdaw.org.uk/About-Us/News/2012/April/Usdaw-members-overwhelmingly-oppose-suspension-of
    This is not a suspension but an extension of hours. However I agree some shopworkers will take any chance to earn some extra case, others, especially religious voters, would like Sundays to be kept more traditional and special
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2015

    He'll oppose it, it will happen and the only people who will remember are those whose votes Burnham might have secured in the Labour leadership election.

    The much bigger issue around supermarkets is the current wages subsidy the state currently provides them (and many other businesses, of course).

    There is no wage subsidy. If there is an issue with welfare then address that, don't blame businesses for hiring people on legal wages.

    My local Tesco's hires a number of individuals that most other companies wouldn't touch, any time I do a full shop there you pass an employee with a disability (mental or physical) or Downs etc - we could do with less mocking of companies hiring unskilled workers for legal wages here. Blame the politicians for creating a mess of welfare, not companies.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218

    rcs1000 said:

    @isam

    I always think those survey should also contain a 'placebo' question:

    "What do you think about the activities of the PTTQ group?"

    Obviously, have "Don't know" as an answer. I would guess as many as a third of people would not admit ignorance, and would give a random answer.

    Believe it or not, there is a substantial minority of people who don't actually know who ISIS is, and if asked would think it likely to be a shop or a charity. (There was a business called ISIS that rapidly rebranded itself).

    Well, from last month,

    Andy Burnham is the slight favourite to become the next leader of the Labour party, as he is preferred by 15 per cent of people.

    An Ipsos Mori poll shows that 14 per cent of British adults support Yvette Cooper as the next Labour leader - just one percentage point behind Burnham.

    A fake candidate called "Stewart Lewis" was the preferred choice for three per cent of British adults and six per cent of Labour supporters.

    http://tinyurl.com/BurnhamTheScouseEdMiliband
    The ORB poll on net favourability was less prone to name recognition
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    He'll oppose it, it will happen and the only people who will remember are those whose votes Burnham might have secured in the Labour leadership election.

    The much bigger issue around supermarkets is the current wages subsidy the state currently provides them (and many other businesses, of course).

    There is no wage subsidy. If there is an issue with welfare then address that, don't blame businesses for hiring people on legal wages.

    My local Tesco's hires a number of individuals that most other companies wouldn't touch, any time I do a full shop there you pass an employ with a disability (mental or physical) or Downs etc - we could do with less mocking of companies hiring unskilled workers for legal wages here. Blame the politicians for creating a mess of welfare, not companies.

    I am not mocking companies, I am saying they are being subsidised by the state.

  • Options
    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited July 2015
    @HYUFD

    'Well polls show backing for renationalisation of the railways and gas and electricity industries, it is not a minority view, even though I disagree with it'

    With Corbyn part of Burnham's dream team they will definitely find a whole bunch of other stuff to nationalize as well.

    It will make Ed look like a wimp.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218
    TGOHF said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:

    On topic - Burnham shows his significant unsuitability for the job if he is against this - he's the continuity panda candidate.

    He's probably against the spinning jenny, Uber and privatisation of British Airways.

    Well polls show backing for renationalisation of the railways and gas and electricity industries, it is not a minority view, even though I disagree with it
    Polls showed most seats was a "coin toss" ...
    Still, more final polls had the Tories ahead than Labour
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218

    I'm coming to the conclusion, Mike is not a fan of Andy Burnham.

    This is Mike's reply to a tweet showing Tom Watson is on course to become Deputy Leader

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/618344963835883520

    Given OGH said Ed Miliband was far more electable than his brother in 2010 his record on recent Labour leaders is not the best, despite his good tips elsewhere
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,520
    Pulpstar said:

    @DavidL Your local Tesco sounds like it is breaking the law to me.

    As antifrank has pointed out there are different laws in Scotland on these matters. Tescos and other superstores shut Christmas day and New years day. That is it. The panic to buy bread before they do still continues.

    We still have other absurdities such as limitations on when supermarkets can sell alcohol. They cope by closing the relevant aisles.

    One of the more absurd examples is that we have been coming to the Metro Centre for a Christmas Shop/family weekend for over 20 years. Not being able to buy things until 11 on a Sunday just seems absurd, especially since I am always hankering to start the journey back north by mid afternoon. These days you are allowed to "look" and even queue at the tills but it is still annoying. It restricts the ability of these shops to attract the custom they need to survive, thrive and provide employment.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    He'll oppose it, it will happen and the only people who will remember are those whose votes Burnham might have secured in the Labour leadership election.

    The much bigger issue around supermarkets is the current wages subsidy the state currently provides them (and many other businesses, of course).

    There is no wage subsidy. If there is an issue with welfare then address that, don't blame businesses for hiring people on legal wages.

    My local Tesco's hires a number of individuals that most other companies wouldn't touch, any time I do a full shop there you pass an employ with a disability (mental or physical) or Downs etc - we could do with less mocking of companies hiring unskilled workers for legal wages here. Blame the politicians for creating a mess of welfare, not companies.

    I am not mocking companies, I am saying they are being subsidised by the state.

    But they are not. They are paying a fortune to the state. Do you know how much VAT Tesco's collects and pays to the State? How much Employers NI? What about business rates and corporation tax?

    Money is not flowing from the state to them, it is entirely the other way around.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    @leicesterliz: The Sunday Trading Act works: retailers can trade, customers can shop, shopworkers can spend time with families. Why change it? @UsdawUnion
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218
    john_zims said:

    @HYUFD

    'Well polls show backing for renationalisation of the railways and gas and electricity industries, it is not a minority view, even though I disagree with it'

    With Corbyn part of Burnham's dream team they will definitely find a whole bunch of other stuff the nationalize as well.

    It will make Ed look like a wimp.

    At least voters will get more of a choice and on some areas like spending Burnham has taken an approach to Ed's right
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    @leicesterliz: The Sunday Trading Act works: retailers can trade, customers can shop, shopworkers can spend time with families. Why change it? @UsdawUnion

    Wouldn't be saying that if she had kids...

    *innocent face*
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218

    Mr. 1983, perhaps, but given Montgomerie's continual sniping about how wrong the Conservatives are on just about everything, it sounds just like a default disagreement with no thought troubling him as the words spill forth.

    Tim has actually backed some winners, he is close to Australian PM Tony Abbott for example
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.

    I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.

    The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    I'm coming to the conclusion, Mike is not a fan of Andy Burnham.

    This is Mike's reply to a tweet showing Tom Watson is on course to become Deputy Leader

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/618344963835883520

    Doesn't mean he won't win - I seem to recall Mike being profoundly anti-Brown too. Vindicated by events of course, just not by the leadership contest...

    @Morris_Dancer, condolences on your loss.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited July 2015

    He'll oppose it, it will happen and the only people who will remember are those whose votes Burnham might have secured in the Labour leadership election.

    The much bigger issue around supermarkets is the current wages subsidy the state currently provides them (and many other businesses, of course).

    There is no wage subsidy. If there is an issue with welfare then address that, don't blame businesses for hiring people on legal wages.

    My local Tesco's hires a number of individuals that most other companies wouldn't touch, any time I do a full shop there you pass an employ with a disability (mental or physical) or Downs etc - we could do with less mocking of companies hiring unskilled workers for legal wages here. Blame the politicians for creating a mess of welfare, not companies.

    I am not mocking companies, I am saying they are being subsidised by the state.

    But they are not. They are paying a fortune to the state. Do you know how much VAT Tesco's collects and pays to the State? How much Employers NI? What about business rates and corporation tax?

    Money is not flowing from the state to them, it is entirely the other way around.

    There is not that much VAT on food.

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited July 2015

    Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.

    I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.

    The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?

    Why are shops so uniquely different from other places of work and service providers which can open on Sunday if they choose to ?

    Should sports centres, restaurants, pubs and petrol stations only open for a certain number of hours on a Sunday ?

    Labour stuck in the '70s - blinded by their loyalty to the supply side.

  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    It's not going to happen (nor should it) but if George Osborne were to announce tomorrow the complete abolition of tax credits (with nothing replacing them) and the complete abolition of minimum wage laws (with no replacement) then today's minimum wage jobs are more likely to go down than up over time.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218

    Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.

    I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.

    The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?

    Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of rest
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    He'll oppose it, it will happen and the only people who will remember are those whose votes Burnham might have secured in the Labour leadership election.

    The much bigger issue around supermarkets is the current wages subsidy the state currently provides them (and many other businesses, of course).

    There is no wage subsidy. If there is an issue with welfare then address that, don't blame businesses for hiring people on legal wages.

    My local Tesco's hires a number of individuals that most other companies wouldn't touch, any time I do a full shop there you pass an employ with a disability (mental or physical) or Downs etc - we could do with less mocking of companies hiring unskilled workers for legal wages here. Blame the politicians for creating a mess of welfare, not companies.

    I am not mocking companies, I am saying they are being subsidised by the state.

    But they are not. They are paying a fortune to the state. Do you know how much VAT Tesco's collects and pays to the State? How much Employers NI? What about business rates and corporation tax?

    Money is not flowing from the state to them, it is entirely the other way around.

    There is not that much VAT on food.

    You think the only thing large supermarkets sell is food?
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    It does seem very odd that USDAW campaigns against more employment for its members, but that's ideological purity for you, I guess.

    More generally, it's amusing to see people call for less red-tape and/or more local decision making, and then oppose these when they are offered.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    I'm coming to the conclusion, Mike is not a fan of Andy Burnham.

    This is Mike's reply to a tweet showing Tom Watson is on course to become Deputy Leader

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/618344963835883520

    Doesn't mean he won't win - I seem to recall Mike being profoundly anti-Brown too. Vindicated by events of course, just not by the leadership contest...

    @Morris_Dancer, condolences on your loss.
    You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.

    No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    He'll oppose it, it will happen and the only people who will remember are those whose votes Burnham might have secured in the Labour leadership election.

    The much bigger issue around supermarkets is the current wages subsidy the state currently provides them (and many other businesses, of course).

    There is no wage subsidy. If there is an issue with welfare then address that, don't blame businesses for hiring people on legal wages.

    My local Tesco's hires a number of individuals that most other companies wouldn't touch, any time I do a full shop there you pass an employ with a disability (mental or physical) or Downs etc - we could do with less mocking of companies hiring unskilled workers for legal wages here. Blame the politicians for creating a mess of welfare, not companies.

    I am not mocking companies, I am saying they are being subsidised by the state.

    But they are not. They are paying a fortune to the state. Do you know how much VAT Tesco's collects and pays to the State? How much Employers NI? What about business rates and corporation tax?

    Money is not flowing from the state to them, it is entirely the other way around.

    They are not paying the NI they would if they paid their employees a living wage.

  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    He'll oppose it, it will happen and the only people who will remember are those whose votes Burnham might have secured in the Labour leadership election.

    The much bigger issue around supermarkets is the current wages subsidy the state currently provides them (and many other businesses, of course).

    There is no wage subsidy. If there is an issue with welfare then address that, don't blame businesses for hiring people on legal wages.

    My local Tesco's hires a number of individuals that most other companies wouldn't touch, any time I do a full shop there you pass an employ with a disability (mental or physical) or Downs etc - we could do with less mocking of companies hiring unskilled workers for legal wages here. Blame the politicians for creating a mess of welfare, not companies.

    I am not mocking companies, I am saying they are being subsidised by the state.

    But they are not. They are paying a fortune to the state. Do you know how much VAT Tesco's collects and pays to the State? How much Employers NI? What about business rates and corporation tax?

    Money is not flowing from the state to them, it is entirely the other way around.

    There is not that much VAT on food.

    You think the only thing large supermarkets sell is food?

    You think that I think that the only thing large supermarkets sell is food?

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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    I'm coming to the conclusion, Mike is not a fan of Andy Burnham.

    This is Mike's reply to a tweet showing Tom Watson is on course to become Deputy Leader

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/618344963835883520

    Given OGH said Ed Miliband was far more electable than his brother in 2010 his record on recent Labour leaders is not the best, despite his good tips elsewhere
    Do you have a Tardis to see how many seats David would have won? Just because Ed lost doesn't mean David would have done better. He could have done worse.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218

    I'm coming to the conclusion, Mike is not a fan of Andy Burnham.

    This is Mike's reply to a tweet showing Tom Watson is on course to become Deputy Leader

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/618344963835883520

    Doesn't mean he won't win - I seem to recall Mike being profoundly anti-Brown too. Vindicated by events of course, just not by the leadership contest...

    @Morris_Dancer, condolences on your loss.
    You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
    No, as RN says they want Corbyn to win. Regardless of what 'Tory strategists' want, it is Burnham who presently polls best with the public anyway followed by Kendall
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    HYUFD said:

    Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.

    I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.

    The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?

    Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of rest
    Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.

    No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.
    If Corbyn wins - and at 8/1 maybe we have to start taking it vaguely seriously - there'd surely be a Limehouse declaration in short order (can't see a mass defection to Farron having much appeal, but a new SDP might scoop up a few Orange Bookers too).
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,283

    They are not paying the NI they would if they paid their employees a living wage.

    This is a circular argument. They're not paying the wages they would if NI didn't push up the cost of employing people.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    edited July 2015

    You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.

    No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.
    Nah, Corbyn makes it easier for Labour to hoover up the left wing/Green/SNP votes.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    They are not paying the NI they would if they paid their employees a living wage.

    Though why would you assume they'd pay that? They're paying more than if they cut employment instead.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218
    TGOHF said:

    Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.

    I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.

    The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?

    Why are shops so uniquely different from other places of work and service providers which can open on Sunday if they choose to ?

    Should sports centres, restaurants, pubs and petrol stations only open for a certain number of hours on a Sunday ?

    Labour stuck in the '70s - blinded by their loyalty to the supply side.

    From my experience most gyms and sports centres close at 5pm on a Sunday and some restaurants and pubs which do open on Sunday evenings tend to have the quietest night of the week. I would expect a religious Tory would be more in favour of Burnham's proposal than a secular Labour voter in Islington!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,520

    It's not going to happen (nor should it) but if George Osborne were to announce tomorrow the complete abolition of tax credits (with nothing replacing them) and the complete abolition of minimum wage laws (with no replacement) then today's minimum wage jobs are more likely to go down than up over time.

    Some of them yes but others would continue to be ruthlessly exploited by a market that is very much weighted in the employer's favour.

    What I hope will happen tomorrow is that there will be a significant increase in the minimum wage with offsetting reductions in WTC and CTC so that more of the cost of labour falls on the person obtaining the benefit of it. WTC and CTC should also taper out at a lower level, possibly the current cap for benefits.

    Tomorrow may well be the most important political event of this Parliament. It will set the agenda for a rebalancing of our economy onto a sustainable path and set the political context for political debate thereafter.

    Of course, given the current mess in the EZ and the age of this recovery it is all too possible that the country will be blown off the path that Osborne will set. But tomorrow will fix the agenda and the future battlefields. I presume Hattie will be doing the reply.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    He'll oppose it, it will happen and the only people who will remember are those whose votes Burnham might have secured in the Labour leadership election.

    The much bigger issue around supermarkets is the current wages subsidy the state currently provides them (and many other businesses, of course).

    There is no wage subsidy. If there is an issue with welfare then address that, don't blame businesses for hiring people on legal wages.

    My local Tesco's hires a number of individuals that most other companies wouldn't touch, any time I do a full shop there you pass an employ with a disability (mental or physical) or Downs etc - we could do with less mocking of companies hiring unskilled workers for legal wages here. Blame the politicians for creating a mess of welfare, not companies.

    I am not mocking companies, I am saying they are being subsidised by the state.

    But they are not. They are paying a fortune to the state. Do you know how much VAT Tesco's collects and pays to the State? How much Employers NI? What about business rates and corporation tax?

    Money is not flowing from the state to them, it is entirely the other way around.

    There is not that much VAT on food.

    You think the only thing large supermarkets sell is food?

    You think that I think that the only thing large supermarkets sell is food?

    You must have thought it was relevant since you brought it up.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    HYUFD said:

    I'm coming to the conclusion, Mike is not a fan of Andy Burnham.

    This is Mike's reply to a tweet showing Tom Watson is on course to become Deputy Leader

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/618344963835883520

    Doesn't mean he won't win - I seem to recall Mike being profoundly anti-Brown too. Vindicated by events of course, just not by the leadership contest...

    @Morris_Dancer, condolences on your loss.
    You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
    No, as RN says they want Corbyn to win. Regardless of what 'Tory strategists' want, it is Burnham who presently polls best with the public anyway followed by Kendall
    Yes, I should listen to you, as opposed to the strategists that won the Tories a majority a few weeks ago.

    Ask yourself, why Labour wasn't able to damage the Tories over the NHS during the election campaign.

    I'll give you a clue, it was down in part to Labour's Shadow Health Secretary.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218

    I'm coming to the conclusion, Mike is not a fan of Andy Burnham.

    This is Mike's reply to a tweet showing Tom Watson is on course to become Deputy Leader

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/618344963835883520

    Doesn't mean he won't win - I seem to recall Mike being profoundly anti-Brown too. Vindicated by events of course, just not by the leadership contest...

    @Morris_Dancer, condolences on your loss.
    OGH was very in favour of Ed M in 2010 to win, he got the result right then, however in that case he was not vindicated by events
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.

    No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.
    Nah, Corbyn makes it easier for Labour to hoover up the left wing/Green/SNP votes.
    .. in places where it won't do them any good.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,217

    Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.

    I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.

    The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?

    It is done on floor size. If the shop has a floor size of less than 280 m^2, then it can set its own hours. This has been a factor in the size of many shops built over the last few years.

    There will be plenty of small Co-op shops though, which gain (as our very local one does) from the local Morrisons shutting at 16.00 on Sundays. At 15.30 the car park is nearly empty; at 16.30 it is often full.

    If the staff of a Co-op (Labour linked, of course) should be able to work for longer on Sundays, I think the Labour party should let people working for less (ahem) enlightened supermarkets do the same.

    It's a anachronism. Plenty of other people have to work on Sundays; the task is ensuring that employers do not take the p*ss.

    As an aside, a German friend of ours moved over here from Bavaria a few months back, and her first post was on how lovely it was to be able to go to the shops on a Sunday. If only because they arrived at their new house on a Sunday, and the hubby had forgotten to get any groceries. ;)
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.

    I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.

    The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?

    Why are shops so uniquely different from other places of work and service providers which can open on Sunday if they choose to ?

    Should sports centres, restaurants, pubs and petrol stations only open for a certain number of hours on a Sunday ?

    Labour stuck in the '70s - blinded by their loyalty to the supply side.

    From my experience most gyms and sports centres close at 5pm on a Sunday and some restaurants and pubs which do open on Sunday evenings tend to have the quietest night of the week. I would expect a religious Tory would be more in favour of Burnham's proposal than a secular Labour voter in Islington!
    My David Lloyd gym is open from 6.30 to 23.30 on Sunday.

    Why can't John Lewis operate to the same hours if they choose ?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    It's not going to happen (nor should it) but if George Osborne were to announce tomorrow the complete abolition of tax credits (with nothing replacing them) and the complete abolition of minimum wage laws (with no replacement) then today's minimum wage jobs are more likely to go down than up over time.

    Some of them yes but others would continue to be ruthlessly exploited by a market that is very much weighted in the employer's favour.

    What I hope will happen tomorrow is that there will be a significant increase in the minimum wage with offsetting reductions in WTC and CTC so that more of the cost of labour falls on the person obtaining the benefit of it. WTC and CTC should also taper out at a lower level, possibly the current cap for benefits.

    Tomorrow may well be the most important political event of this Parliament. It will set the agenda for a rebalancing of our economy onto a sustainable path and set the political context for political debate thereafter.

    Of course, given the current mess in the EZ and the age of this recovery it is all too possible that the country will be blown off the path that Osborne will set. But tomorrow will fix the agenda and the future battlefields. I presume Hattie will be doing the reply.
    I hope not. It will be a shame to see a big increase in unemployment and bankruptcies that a substantial increase in minimum wage could cause. The minimum wage is already far higher in real terms than it was when it was first introduced, where do you think companies struggling to make ends meet will magic up money to pay ever increasing wage bills? Do companies have magic money trees like Labour governments?
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    HYUFD said:

    I'm coming to the conclusion, Mike is not a fan of Andy Burnham.

    This is Mike's reply to a tweet showing Tom Watson is on course to become Deputy Leader

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/618344963835883520

    Doesn't mean he won't win - I seem to recall Mike being profoundly anti-Brown too. Vindicated by events of course, just not by the leadership contest...

    @Morris_Dancer, condolences on your loss.
    OGH was very in favour of Ed M in 2010 to win, he got the result right then, however in that case he was not vindicated by events
    I'm not convinced David Miliband was much more electable in a personal sense, though he would have positioned the party more adroitly.

    And, to be fair, Ed polled pretty well against the greatest Prime Minister of the 21st century. Shame the polling was wrong, but you can't have everything.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,912
    Liz Kendall ‏@leicesterliz 20m20 minutes ago
    The Sunday Trading Act works: retailers can trade, customers can shop, shopworkers can spend time with families. Why change it?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Liz Kendall ‏@leicesterliz 20m20 minutes ago
    The Sunday Trading Act works: retailers can trade, customers can shop, shopworkers can spend time with families. Why change it?

    Will she campaign for restaurants, pubs and gyms to be limited to 6hrs ?

    Labour are a laughing stock.
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