politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Burnham comes out against extending Sunday shopping hours
Comments
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Not all the big shops want a change. I'm guessing because they know they would pretty much sell the same amount just over a couple of hours longer.0
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Which raises an interesting point... Wouldn't the smarter political move be to say that this is something that should be devolved below the Westminster level? If London wants to be a 24 hour 7 days a week city, let them, but don't force the same thing on the West Country.JosiasJessop said:As an aside, a German friend of ours moved over here from Bavaria a few months back...
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Well my local gyms in Hereford and Tunbridge Wells certainly do not open that late on Sundays, David Lloyd gyms are not typical of the sports centres used by most members of the population, given the price members have to pay for them I am surprised they are not already open 24/7!TGOHF said:
My David Lloyd gym is open from 6.30 to 23.30 on Sunday.HYUFD said:
From my experience most gyms and sports centres close at 5pm on a Sunday and some restaurants and pubs which do open on Sunday evenings tend to have the quietest night of the week. I would expect a religious Tory would be more in favour of Burnham's proposal than a secular Labour voter in Islington!TGOHF said:
Why are shops so uniquely different from other places of work and service providers which can open on Sunday if they choose to ?NickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Should sports centres, restaurants, pubs and petrol stations only open for a certain number of hours on a Sunday ?
Labour stuck in the '70s - blinded by their loyalty to the supply side.
Why can't John Lewis operate to the same hours if they choose ?0 -
Faith based statehood, politics, policy etc have no place in an enlightened, modern world. Allowing shops to open on a day that a minority of people believe is sacred because God took a day off is to be applauded. Now, let's get to work on faith based exceptions to otherwise good laws such as same sex marriage.0
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The proposal is said to be based on higher sales during the Olympics. Can anyone think of a reason there might have been higher sales during the Olympics? Like, more people in London for the Olympics, perhaps?antifrank said:For the wider electorate, this is a vote-loser. The public want to shop. For the Labour party electorate it may be quite a smart move because union workers like such policies.
This just makes me wonder if we are in for another omnishambles budget -- like the 2012 one, a series of reasonable-looking measures to tidy up anomalies but collectively a kick in the undercarriage to Tory supporters.0 -
They won't b forced to open 24 hours on a Sunday.rottenborough said:Not all the big shops want a change. I'm guessing because they know they would pretty much sell the same amount just over a couple of hours longer.
Are there even more stringent rules in place for banks or is that just a commercial decision to open for 2 hours with an hour lunch break on Saturday at the weekend, and not at all on Sundays ?0 -
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http://ind.pn/1IGFvQx0 -
It wouldn't be forced on the West Country - if no-one there wants to go to the shops on Sunday then they won't open then.williamglenn said:
Which raises an interesting point... Wouldn't the smarter political move be to say that this is something that should be devolved below the Westminster level? If London wants to be a 24 hour 7 days a week city, let them, but don't force the same thing on the West Country.JosiasJessop said:As an aside, a German friend of ours moved over here from Bavaria a few months back...
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You do realise this is the government proposal?williamglenn said:
Wouldn't the smarter political move be to say that this is something that should be devolved below the Westminster level?JosiasJessop said:As an aside, a German friend of ours moved over here from Bavaria a few months back...
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Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!0 -
All the polling on best PM showed Ed M well behind David Cameron, that was actually a better indicator of the result than the party pollsTissue_Price said:
I'm not convinced David Miliband was much more electable in a personal sense, though he would have positioned the party more adroitly.HYUFD said:
OGH was very in favour of Ed M in 2010 to win, he got the result right then, however in that case he was not vindicated by eventsTissue_Price said:
Doesn't mean he won't win - I seem to recall Mike being profoundly anti-Brown too. Vindicated by events of course, just not by the leadership contest...TheScreamingEagles said:I'm coming to the conclusion, Mike is not a fan of Andy Burnham.
This is Mike's reply to a tweet showing Tom Watson is on course to become Deputy Leader
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/618344963835883520
@Morris_Dancer, condolences on your loss.
And, to be fair, Ed polled pretty well against the greatest Prime Minister of the 21st century. Shame the polling was wrong, but you can't have everything.0 -
The same dingbats whinge like babies anytime anyone suggests that doctors surgeries open later, or hospitals man up and treat more people at weekends, rather than leave expensive equipment gathering dust.TGOHF said:
Why are shops so uniquely different from other places of work and service providers which can open on Sunday if they choose to ?NickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Should sports centres, restaurants, pubs and petrol stations only open for a certain number of hours on a Sunday ?
Labour stuck in the '70s - blinded by their loyalty to the supply side.0 -
Philip_Thompson said:
You must have thought it was relevant since you brought it up.MarkHopkins said:Philip_Thompson said:
You think the only thing large supermarkets sell is food?MarkHopkins said:Philip_Thompson said:
But they are not. They are paying a fortune to the state. Do you know how much VAT Tesco's collects and pays to the State? How much Employers NI? What about business rates and corporation tax?SouthamObserver said:
I am not mocking companies, I am saying they are being subsidised by the state.Philip_Thompson said:
There is no wage subsidy. If there is an issue with welfare then address that, don't blame businesses for hiring people on legal wages.SouthamObserver said:He'll oppose it, it will happen and the only people who will remember are those whose votes Burnham might have secured in the Labour leadership election.
The much bigger issue around supermarkets is the current wages subsidy the state currently provides them (and many other businesses, of course).
My local Tesco's hires a number of individuals that most other companies wouldn't touch, any time I do a full shop there you pass an employ with a disability (mental or physical) or Downs etc - we could do with less mocking of companies hiring unskilled workers for legal wages here. Blame the politicians for creating a mess of welfare, not companies.
Money is not flowing from the state to them, it is entirely the other way around.
There is not that much VAT on food.
You think that I think that the only thing large supermarkets sell is food?
You said VAT first as (presumably) the major part of their tax payments. However, as a predominantly food store, this element is a much smaller fraction of their turnover than other stores.
The question is whether Tesco is subsidised by the state or contributes to it. Given the large number of low-paid jobs in Tesco, which need top ups from the taxpayer to the individuals, I'm not sure where the line would actually be drawn.
Mr Observer may be right on this one (not often I say that), but I don't know and it would need the numbers to be checked in detail.
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Great - but at least give them and the population the choice.rottenborough said:Not all the big shops want a change. I'm guessing because they know they would pretty much sell the same amount just over a couple of hours longer.
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I think Andy Burnham is reaching out to those supporters who call themselves Christian Socialists, who combined with shopworkers in USDAW in the 90s in the "Keep Sunday Special" campaign.He may still get the support of senior church leaders of various Christian faiths and others.On balance,AB should benefit from the insistence upon "family time" for all faiths and none.0
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I'm pretty certain a Corbyn win would mean another leader election before the 2020 GE. Or even a SNP-style split.Richard_Nabavi said:
.. in places where it won't do them any good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, Corbyn makes it easier for Labour to hoover up the left wing/Green/SNP votes.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.TheScreamingEagles said:You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
I'm sticking to Cooper, a good, solid LOTO who can deal with five years of grinding opposition.0 -
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?0 -
Think I may have her as my 2nd preference. My first preference is Corbyn who i do not really expect to win.rottenborough said:
I'm pretty certain a Corbyn win would mean another leader election before the 2020 GE. Or even a SNP-style split.Richard_Nabavi said:
.. in places where it won't do them any good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, Corbyn makes it easier for Labour to hoover up the left wing/Green/SNP votes.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.TheScreamingEagles said:You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
I'm sticking to Cooper, a good, solid LOTO who can deal with five years of grinding opposition.0 -
The Tory strategists won outright as Survation showed yesterday largely by running a successful campaign warning of the dangers of Miliband being in the pockets of the SNP which saw several late switchers to the Tories. The NHS was actually one of the few areas Labour had a poll lead over the Tories in the electionTheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, I should listen to you, as opposed to the strategists that won the Tories a majority a few weeks ago.HYUFD said:
No, as RN says they want Corbyn to win. Regardless of what 'Tory strategists' want, it is Burnham who presently polls best with the public anyway followed by KendallTheScreamingEagles said:
You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.Tissue_Price said:
Doesn't mean he won't win - I seem to recall Mike being profoundly anti-Brown too. Vindicated by events of course, just not by the leadership contest...TheScreamingEagles said:I'm coming to the conclusion, Mike is not a fan of Andy Burnham.
This is Mike's reply to a tweet showing Tom Watson is on course to become Deputy Leader
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/618344963835883520
@Morris_Dancer, condolences on your loss.
Ask yourself, why Labour wasn't able to damage the Tories over the NHS during the election campaign.
I'll give you a clue, it was down in part to Labour's Shadow Health Secretary.0 -
Not sure Ed was polled against Blair.Tissue_Price said:
And, to be fair, Ed polled pretty well against the greatest Prime Minister of the 21st century. Shame the polling was wrong, but you can't have everything.0 -
That's nonsense, when the Sunday trading laws were relaxed during the Olympics and Paralympics, the increase in takings were more than zero.HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?0 -
Agree that any minimum wage increase should have a counterbalance for costs of employment such as a reduction in employer NI, the 'tax on jobs'.Philip_Thompson said:
I hope not. It will be a shame to see a big increase in unemployment and bankruptcies that a substantial increase in minimum wage could cause. The minimum wage is already far higher in real terms than it was when it was first introduced, where do you think companies struggling to make ends meet will magic up money to pay ever increasing wage bills? Do companies have magic money trees like Labour governments?DavidL said:
Some of them yes but others would continue to be ruthlessly exploited by a market that is very much weighted in the employer's favour.Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen (nor should it) but if George Osborne were to announce tomorrow the complete abolition of tax credits (with nothing replacing them) and the complete abolition of minimum wage laws (with no replacement) then today's minimum wage jobs are more likely to go down than up over time.
What I hope will happen tomorrow is that there will be a significant increase in the minimum wage with offsetting reductions in WTC and CTC so that more of the cost of labour falls on the person obtaining the benefit of it. WTC and CTC should also taper out at a lower level, possibly the current cap for benefits.
Tomorrow may well be the most important political event of this Parliament. It will set the agenda for a rebalancing of our economy onto a sustainable path and set the political context for political debate thereafter.
Of course, given the current mess in the EZ and the age of this recovery it is all too possible that the country will be blown off the path that Osborne will set. But tomorrow will fix the agenda and the future battlefields. I presume Hattie will be doing the reply.0 -
No, the first I'd heard of it was in the thread header.JonathanD said:
You do realise this is the government proposal?williamglenn said:
Wouldn't the smarter political move be to say that this is something that should be devolved below the Westminster level?JosiasJessop said:As an aside, a German friend of ours moved over here from Bavaria a few months back...
In that case it's bone-headed to oppose it.
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I agree that Yvette is the best choice of the bunch, then Andy, then Liz, then Jeremy. But it's the best of a pretty poor bunch. She's not exactly the most inspiring of people, but she'd be the safest pair of hands and I don't think would make any silly mistakes or leave a strategic vacuum as Ed M did so brilliantly.rottenborough said:I'm pretty certain a Corbyn win would mean another leader election before the 2020 GE. Or even a SNP-style split.
I'm sticking to Cooper, a good, solid LOTO who can deal with five years of grinding opposition.0 -
Corbyn might finish ahead of Cooper though, in which case you'll effectively have voted for Andy Burnhambigjohnowls said:
Think I may have her as my 2nd preference. My first preference is Corbyn who i do not really expect to win.rottenborough said:
I'm pretty certain a Corbyn win would mean another leader election before the 2020 GE. Or even a SNP-style split.Richard_Nabavi said:
.. in places where it won't do them any good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, Corbyn makes it easier for Labour to hoover up the left wing/Green/SNP votes.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.TheScreamingEagles said:You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
I'm sticking to Cooper, a good, solid LOTO who can deal with five years of grinding opposition.
Playing with fire here Mr Owls !0 -
Don't cast your vote until you've seen me.bigjohnowls said:
Think I may have her as my 2nd preference. My first preference is Corbyn who i do not really expect to win.rottenborough said:
I'm pretty certain a Corbyn win would mean another leader election before the 2020 GE. Or even a SNP-style split.Richard_Nabavi said:
.. in places where it won't do them any good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, Corbyn makes it easier for Labour to hoover up the left wing/Green/SNP votes.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.TheScreamingEagles said:You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
I'm sticking to Cooper, a good, solid LOTO who can deal with five years of grinding opposition.
I will help you make up your mind.
Remember, I have the Labour Party's best interests at heart.0 -
"He could be portrayed as being more behind the producer interest than the consumer."
Burnham didn't exactly stand up for consumers or patients in Mid Staffs.0 -
On top of EICIPM, your views are definitely wacky.bigjohnowls said:
My first preference is Corbyn who i do not really expect to win.rottenborough said:
I'm pretty certain a Corbyn win would mean another leader election before the 2020 GE. Or even a SNP-style split.Richard_Nabavi said:
.. in places where it won't do them any good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, Corbyn makes it easier for Labour to hoover up the left wing/Green/SNP votes.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.TheScreamingEagles said:You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
I'm sticking to Cooper, a good, solid LOTO who can deal with five years of grinding opposition.
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I suppose it's understandable that the candidates are focusing on the leadership election but this is horrible positioning for Labour. It's like gay marriage: It's controversial until it happens, but once it's done the way things used to be will seem mad in retrospect, and to the extent that anyone can remember who opposed it they just end up seeming ridiculous.0
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Burnham is not proposing anything - he's made a stupid knee-jerk reaction to a possible extension of localism - a total pillock. I see Kendall has now done the same like the good UNITE girl she is underneath the blether about change. All this is great news for the Tories. Your knowledge of the predilections of Tory voters seems as extensive as you others. Have you know polling on this matter to share?HYUFD said:
From my experience most gyms and sports centres close at 5pm on a Sunday and some restaurants and pubs which do open on Sunday evenings tend to have the quietest night of the week. I would expect a religious Tory would be more in favour of Burnham's proposal than a secular Labour voter in Islington!TGOHF said:
Why are shops so uniquely different from other places of work and service providers which can open on Sunday if they choose to ?NickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Should sports centres, restaurants, pubs and petrol stations only open for a certain number of hours on a Sunday ?
Labour stuck in the '70s - blinded by their loyalty to the supply side.0 -
Why not devolve further, from the City level to the individual shop level?williamglenn said:
Which raises an interesting point... Wouldn't the smarter political move be to say that this is something that should be devolved below the Westminster level? If London wants to be a 24 hour 7 days a week city, let them, but don't force the same thing on the West Country.JosiasJessop said:As an aside, a German friend of ours moved over here from Bavaria a few months back...
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To whit, a tweet right on cue:edmundintokyo said:I suppose it's understandable that the candidates are focusing on the leadership election but this is horrible positioning for Labour. It's like gay marriage: It's controversial until it happens, but once it's done the way things used to be will seem mad in retrospect, and to the extent that anyone can remember who opposed it they just end up seeming ridiculous.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb 2 minutes ago
Fun fact: Labour opposed the creation of ITV in 1955 and was still agnostic on it in 1959, four years after its creation.0 -
Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
You misunderstand that. The point of the creation story was to differentiate from the pagan religions which insisted that little "gods" kept everything running which you needed to placate.
Hence God rested means creation was complete, it runs by "itself" then.
Science caught up later on.
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@Conorpope: And yet during the Andy Townsend years they said nothing.Tissue_Price said:
To whit, a tweet right on cue:edmundintokyo said:I suppose it's understandable that the candidates are focusing on the leadership election but this is horrible positioning for Labour. It's like gay marriage: It's controversial until it happens, but once it's done the way things used to be will seem mad in retrospect, and to the extent that anyone can remember who opposed it they just end up seeming ridiculous.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb 2 minutes ago
Fun fact: Labour opposed the creation of ITV in 1955 and was still agnostic on it in 1959, four years after its creation.0 -
HYUFD,
'Could you have imagined John Major as PM in 1989 or Attlee in 1944 or Heath in 1969? '
In 1969 Heath was was very much odds on to become PM. The Toties had been over 20% ahead in the polls fro 2 years and had won a dozen seats at by-elections.A majority of a 100 was on the cards until Spring 1970 when the polls suddenly turned.0 -
This is one of my gripes: gym opening hours at weekends round me are bafflingly short.TGOHF said:
Will she campaign for restaurants, pubs and gyms to be limited to 6hrs ?bigjohnowls said:Liz Kendall @leicesterliz 20m20 minutes ago
The Sunday Trading Act works: retailers can trade, customers can shop, shopworkers can spend time with families. Why change it?
Labour are a laughing stock.0 -
OK thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't cast your vote until you've seen me.bigjohnowls said:
Think I may have her as my 2nd preference. My first preference is Corbyn who i do not really expect to win.rottenborough said:
I'm pretty certain a Corbyn win would mean another leader election before the 2020 GE. Or even a SNP-style split.Richard_Nabavi said:
.. in places where it won't do them any good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, Corbyn makes it easier for Labour to hoover up the left wing/Green/SNP votes.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.TheScreamingEagles said:You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
I'm sticking to Cooper, a good, solid LOTO who can deal with five years of grinding opposition.
I will help you make up your mind.
Remember, I have the Labour Party's best interests at heart.
My MP has just called all candidates except Kendall intellectually bankrupt.
When did you meet Toby?0 -
Steady on! That's a slippery slope towards a free market.JosiasJessop said:
Why not devolve further, from the City level to the individual shop level?williamglenn said:
Which raises an interesting point... Wouldn't the smarter political move be to say that this is something that should be devolved below the Westminster level? If London wants to be a 24 hour 7 days a week city, let them, but don't force the same thing on the West Country.JosiasJessop said:As an aside, a German friend of ours moved over here from Bavaria a few months back...
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Lol - I wish someone would explain this to HYUFD - I'm not sure he reads.williamglenn said:
No, the first I'd heard of it was in the thread header.JonathanD said:
You do realise this is the government proposal?williamglenn said:
Wouldn't the smarter political move be to say that this is something that should be devolved below the Westminster level?JosiasJessop said:As an aside, a German friend of ours moved over here from Bavaria a few months back...
In that case it's bone-headed to oppose it. 0 -
Is it wrong for the NHS to treat people on Sundays? To get the best value out of its static facilities and to treat people more quickly the NHS is moving to ''24/7''.HYUFD said:
Sunday trading is not a left or right issue but a religious v secular issue, liberals and libertartians in both parties would back extending hours, social conservatives and traditionalists would oppose it.felix said:
If you need to ask the question your political nous needs a re-tune. Ditto the point about Tim Montgomerie. Or maybe your love affair with Andy is clouding your judgement.HYUFD said:
What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs, indeed the religious Tim Montgomerie, former editor of conservativehome and IDS' former aide backs Burnham on this. In Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbathfelix said:Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas
To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.
To open more on Sundays, businesses will have to employ more people and arrange shifts to accommodate rotation. Pay will be higher for Sunday working.
Many industries work shifts including weekend shifts if the demand is there. Even if such shifts do not include Sundays it's likely that maintenance work will be done on Sundays as a result.
It occurs to be that if opening hours are liberalised to literally 24/7 then that would mean less Sunday lunchtime shopping, as people shop at 11pm on Saturday (or Monday, or whatever) night say. This liberalisation might free up Sundays for many people. Burnham following the union line should be no surprise, nor should the aim of unions to bankrupt businesses rather than support them. If Montgomerie opposes a tory measure that should be the least surprise of all, he is after all as thick as a plank.0 -
Is the NHS the hidden agenda here?
You could hardly support sunday working for most people and completely oppose it for NHS staff?0 -
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'0 -
To be clear I don't have a vote, I just think Lab will be mad not to give Cooper a run at Cameron over next few years. I like Liz's ideas and willingness to be iconclastic, but is she really ready for the big time?TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't cast your vote until you've seen me.bigjohnowls said:
Think I may have her as my 2nd preference. My first preference is Corbyn who i do not really expect to win.rottenborough said:
I'm pretty certain a Corbyn win would mean another leader election before the 2020 GE. Or even a SNP-style split.Richard_Nabavi said:
.. in places where it won't do them any good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, Corbyn makes it easier for Labour to hoover up the left wing/Green/SNP votes.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.TheScreamingEagles said:You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
I'm sticking to Cooper, a good, solid LOTO who can deal with five years of grinding opposition.
I will help you make up your mind.
Remember, I have the Labour Party's best interests at heart.0 -
I read a similar form re benefits on those lines in Spring 2010 when my father was terminally ill. The wording was unsettling.Pulpstar said:Labour needs to come out against stuff like this
Field writes: “My constituents tell me that despite submitting a DS 1500 form drawing attention to a terminal illness, they have been asked directly to their face whether they think they will soon die and by what date they expect to be dead. In one case my constituent’s mother was asked by when she expected her daughter to die and in front of her daughter.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/06/terminally-ill-benefit-claimants-asked-when-they-expect-to-die-mp-says?CMP=share_btn_fb
Rather than Sunday shopping.
Back it but insist there is a carrot in there for the workers as a quid pro quo.
I expect Kendall will be in favour, and Corbyn against. Cooper's positioning will be interesting.
0 -
There have been some posts of quite breathtaking fatuity from the usual suspects today on what Greece should have done over the past five years to make the situation better today than it is, but they overlook two basic facts of life.
Firstly, the program of reform, whatever it might be, has to be one that would allow the government to get elected, and not subsequently thrown out. Its the Junker Maxim writ large " We all know what to do, we just don't know how to get re-elected after we've done it", or in the case of Greece, elected in the first place. No Greek government is going to get elected on the basis of large increases in pension age and taxes, it might be what they need, but the political reality is it wont happen. For the reasons mentioned below it will take a long time to enact and the government will change before it happens and the ideas will get ditched.
The second and some ways larger problem is that inertia in the system from interest parties and corrupt officials at all levels will just grind any progress to a complete halt. Think how long it takes to get the simplest things done in the UK that the civil service doesn't want to do and then increase that a hundred fold.
Greece is in many ways like many of the countries I do business in, taxes are reduced mostly by making arrangements with your tax collection officer to mutual benefit. He has no interest in changing this because he profits from the arrangement, his boss has no interest in changing it because he gets a cut, and his boss gets a cut as well, and so forth.
Reforming those sort of societies and structures is painfully slow, if you trying a take people to court, you rapidly find the same problem, under the table payments distort results and delay cases indefinitely. Its not reforming a financial system, its changing a culture, and it takes decades, and is monstrously unpopular with everyone who profits, which means all the powerful people in the system, so it takes forever.0 -
That would have more to do with London hosting the biggest sporting event on earth than it being a Sunday I thinkTheScreamingEagles said:
That's nonsense, when the Sunday trading laws were relaxed during the Olympics and Paralympics, the increase in takings were more than zero.HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?0 -
This was at stores all round the country, even when the Olympics were overHYUFD said:
That would have more to do with London hosting the biggest sporting event on earth than it being a Sunday I thinkTheScreamingEagles said:
That's nonsense, when the Sunday trading laws were relaxed during the Olympics and Paralympics, the increase in takings were more than zero.HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?0 -
He's right, I saw greatness in Liz Kendall, that's why I tipped her at 50/1 and 20/1 as next Labour leader (Have I ever mentioned that?)bigjohnowls said:
OK thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't cast your vote until you've seen me.bigjohnowls said:
Think I may have her as my 2nd preference. My first preference is Corbyn who i do not really expect to win.rottenborough said:
I'm pretty certain a Corbyn win would mean another leader election before the 2020 GE. Or even a SNP-style split.Richard_Nabavi said:
.. in places where it won't do them any good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, Corbyn makes it easier for Labour to hoover up the left wing/Green/SNP votes.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.TheScreamingEagles said:You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
I'm sticking to Cooper, a good, solid LOTO who can deal with five years of grinding opposition.
I will help you make up your mind.
Remember, I have the Labour Party's best interests at heart.
My MP has just called all candidates except Kendall intellectually bankrupt.
When did you meet Toby?0 -
City workers must be the main users of gyms round there wouldn't you say? That would be my guess at the limited weekend opening hoursantifrank said:
This is one of my gripes: gym opening hours at weekends round me are bafflingly short.TGOHF said:
Will she campaign for restaurants, pubs and gyms to be limited to 6hrs ?bigjohnowls said:Liz Kendall @leicesterliz 20m20 minutes ago
The Sunday Trading Act works: retailers can trade, customers can shop, shopworkers can spend time with families. Why change it?
Labour are a laughing stock.0 -
Mark Pritchard, Tory MP for the Wrekin, has warned further relaxation of Sunday trading laws “damage relations between the Church and Government”felix said:
Burnham is not proposing anything - he's made a stupid knee-jerk reaction to a possible extension of localism - a total pillock. I see Kendall has now done the same like the good UNITE girl she is underneath the blether about change. All this is great news for the Tories. Your knowledge of the predilections of Tory voters seems as extensive as you others. Have you know polling on this matter to share?HYUFD said:
From my experience most gyms and sports centres close at 5pm on a Sunday and some restaurants and pubs which do open on Sunday evenings tend to have the quietest night of the week. I would expect a religious Tory would be more in favour of Burnham's proposal than a secular Labour voter in Islington!TGOHF said:
Why are shops so uniquely different from other places of work and service providers which can open on Sunday if they choose to ?NickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Should sports centres, restaurants, pubs and petrol stations only open for a certain number of hours on a Sunday ?
Labour stuck in the '70s - blinded by their loyalty to the supply side.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/rowena-mason/9470861/David-Cameron-warned-over-relaxing-Sunday-trading-laws.html0 -
Interesting point of view:
"Britain should charter flight to take wannabe jihadists to Syria, says former counter terror chief
Bob Quick, a former Scotland Yard assistant commissioner, says it may be safer for Britain to help fanatics move to the war torn country and ban them from returning."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11722736/77-anniversary-Britain-should-charter-flight-to-take-wannabe-jihadists-to-Syria-says-former-counter-terror-chief.html0 -
That is, I'm sure, the logic. But they are usually very busy in those shorter opening hours. I have seen queuing outside the gyms at 10am waiting for them to open.isam said:
City workers must be the main users of gyms round there wouldn't you say? That would be my guess at the limited weekend opening hoursantifrank said:
This is one of my gripes: gym opening hours at weekends round me are bafflingly short.TGOHF said:
Will she campaign for restaurants, pubs and gyms to be limited to 6hrs ?bigjohnowls said:Liz Kendall @leicesterliz 20m20 minutes ago
The Sunday Trading Act works: retailers can trade, customers can shop, shopworkers can spend time with families. Why change it?
Labour are a laughing stock.0 -
It was brilliant.TheScreamingEagles said:
This was at stores all round the country, even when the Olympics were overHYUFD said:
That would have more to do with London hosting the biggest sporting event on earth than it being a Sunday I thinkTheScreamingEagles said:
That's nonsense, when the Sunday trading laws were relaxed during the Olympics and Paralympics, the increase in takings were more than zero.HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Super Saturday had nothing on supermarket Sunday0 -
We shall see what is announced tomorrowfelix said:
Lol - I wish someone would explain this to HYUFD - I'm not sure he reads.williamglenn said:
No, the first I'd heard of it was in the thread header.JonathanD said:
You do realise this is the government proposal?williamglenn said:
Wouldn't the smarter political move be to say that this is something that should be devolved below the Westminster level?JosiasJessop said:As an aside, a German friend of ours moved over here from Bavaria a few months back...
In that case it's bone-headed to oppose it.0 -
0
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It's reactionary knee jerkism. It's Mr Angry politics. Hague was great at it, Ed could do it now and then as well. Kinnock was truly the master.
Whatever is said or done, even on things you probably would agree with, you oppose it. You find a vocal group of people who support you.
It's the path to political oblivion, even if you have wider support on that particular issue.0 -
You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of RestFlightpathl said:
Is it wrong for the NHS to treat people on Sundays? To get the best value out of its static facilities and to treat people more quickly the NHS is moving to ''24/7''.HYUFD said:
Sunday trading is not a left or right issue but a religious v secular issue, liberals and libertartians in both parties would back extending hours, social conservatives and traditionalists would oppose it.felix said:
If you need to ask the question your political nous needs a re-tune. Ditto the point about Tim Montgomerie. Or maybe your love affair with Andy is clouding your judgement.HYUFD said:
What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs, indeed the religious Tim Montgomerie, former editor of conservativehome and IDS' former aide backs Burnham on this. In Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbathfelix said:Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas
To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.
To open more on Sundays, businesses will have to employ more people and arrange shifts to accommodate rotation. Pay will be higher for Sunday working.
Many industries work shifts including weekend shifts if the demand is there. Even if such shifts do not include Sundays it's likely that maintenance work will be done on Sundays as a result.
It occurs to be that if opening hours are liberalised to literally 24/7 then that would mean less Sunday lunchtime shopping, as people shop at 11pm on Saturday (or Monday, or whatever) night say. This liberalisation might free up Sundays for many people. Burnham following the union line should be no surprise, nor should the aim of unions to bankrupt businesses rather than support them. If Montgomerie opposes a tory measure that should be the least surprise of all, he is after all as thick as a plank.0 -
I loved Super Saturday.bigjohnowls said:
It was brilliant.TheScreamingEagles said:
This was at stores all round the country, even when the Olympics were overHYUFD said:
That would have more to do with London hosting the biggest sporting event on earth than it being a Sunday I thinkTheScreamingEagles said:
That's nonsense, when the Sunday trading laws were relaxed during the Olympics and Paralympics, the increase in takings were more than zero.HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Super Saturday had nothing on supermarket Sunday
Sheffield's Jess Ennis showed why she's number 1, top shout out to the Ginger Prince, Greg Rutherford and well Mo Farah, how awesome was he?0 -
No.TheScreamingEagles said:
He's right, I saw greatness in Liz Kendall, that's why I tipped her at 50/1 and 20/1 as next Labour leader (Have I ever mentioned that?)bigjohnowls said:
OK thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't cast your vote until you've seen me.bigjohnowls said:
Think I may have her as my 2nd preference. My first preference is Corbyn who i do not really expect to win.rottenborough said:
I'm pretty certain a Corbyn win would mean another leader election before the 2020 GE. Or even a SNP-style split.Richard_Nabavi said:
.. in places where it won't do them any good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, Corbyn makes it easier for Labour to hoover up the left wing/Green/SNP votes.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are praying for Corbyn to win! Andy would be a good consolation prize, though.TheScreamingEagles said:You just know the Tory strategists are praying for Burnham to win.
I'm sticking to Cooper, a good, solid LOTO who can deal with five years of grinding opposition.
I will help you make up your mind.
Remember, I have the Labour Party's best interests at heart.
My MP has just called all candidates except Kendall intellectually bankrupt.
When did you meet Toby?
You are a great visionary.
I remember you telling me when we first met in Ilkley you thought Ed would most likely win.
In fact i am sure you said something about EICIPM!!!
OK that last bits a lie0 -
With reference to the Juncker maxim, perhaps what Greece needs is to find some Nick Cleggs. People who are willing to be reckless with their electoral future for the good of the country. If the government is going to get slaughtered anyway, it may as well go down having implemented some necessary and irreversible changes.Indigo said:There have been some posts of quite breathtaking fatuity from the usual suspects today on what Greece should have done over the past five years to make the situation better today than it is, but they overlook two basic facts of life.
0 -
It gives you an extra healthy incentive to run to the gym to bag a place in the queue.antifrank said:That is, I'm sure, the logic. But they are usually very busy in those shorter opening hours. I have seen queuing outside the gyms at 10am waiting for them to open.
0 -
Lol - a real mainstream Tory example there - is he a member of the Tories for Burnham group? You really are intent on making a complete fool of yourself - do you even know what is being proposed?HYUFD said:
Mark Pritchard, Tory MP for the Wrekin, has warned further relaxation of Sunday trading laws “damage relations between the Church and Government”felix said:
Burnham is not proposing anything - he's made a stupid knee-jerk reaction to a possible extension of localism - a total pillock. I see Kendall has now done the same like the good UNITE girl she is underneath the blether about change. All this is great news for the Tories. Your knowledge of the predilections of Tory voters seems as extensive as you others. Have you know polling on this matter to share?HYUFD said:
From my experience most gyms and sports centres close at 5pm on a Sunday and some restaurants and pubs which do open on Sunday evenings tend to have the quietest night of the week. I would expect a religious Tory would be more in favour of Burnham's proposal than a secular Labour voter in Islington!TGOHF said:
Why are shops so uniquely different from other places of work and service providers which can open on Sunday if they choose to ?NickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Should sports centres, restaurants, pubs and petrol stations only open for a certain number of hours on a Sunday ?
Labour stuck in the '70s - blinded by their loyalty to the supply side.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/rowena-mason/9470861/David-Cameron-warned-over-relaxing-Sunday-trading-laws.html0 -
We could send them an entire LibDem government team, we have one unexpectedly available.williamglenn said:With reference to the Juncker maxim, perhaps what Greece needs is to find some Nick Cleggs. People who are willing to be reckless with their electoral future for the good of the country.
0 -
You should join PureGym (springing up all over London now). No joining fee, c. £20 a month, open 24/7, loads of equipment.antifrank said:
That is, I'm sure, the logic. But they are usually very busy in those shorter opening hours. I have seen queuing outside the gyms at 10am waiting for them to open.isam said:
City workers must be the main users of gyms round there wouldn't you say? That would be my guess at the limited weekend opening hoursantifrank said:
This is one of my gripes: gym opening hours at weekends round me are bafflingly short.TGOHF said:
Will she campaign for restaurants, pubs and gyms to be limited to 6hrs ?bigjohnowls said:Liz Kendall @leicesterliz 20m20 minutes ago
The Sunday Trading Act works: retailers can trade, customers can shop, shopworkers can spend time with families. Why change it?
Labour are a laughing stock.0 -
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!0 -
Did the Lord make an exception for stores less than 3,000 sq feet?HYUFD said:
You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of RestFlightpathl said:
Is it wrong for the NHS to treat people on Sundays? To get the best value out of its static facilities and to treat people more quickly the NHS is moving to ''24/7''.HYUFD said:
Sunday trading is not a left or right issue but a religious v secular issue, liberals and libertartians in both parties would back extending hours, social conservatives and traditionalists would oppose it.felix said:
If you need to ask the question your political nous needs a re-tune. Ditto the point about Tim Montgomerie. Or maybe your love affair with Andy is clouding your judgement.HYUFD said:
What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs, indeed the religious Tim Montgomerie, former editor of conservativehome and IDS' former aide backs Burnham on this. In Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbathfelix said:Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas
To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.
To open more on Sundays, businesses will have to employ more people and arrange shifts to accommodate rotation. Pay will be higher for Sunday working.
Many industries work shifts including weekend shifts if the demand is there. Even if such shifts do not include Sundays it's likely that maintenance work will be done on Sundays as a result.
It occurs to be that if opening hours are liberalised to literally 24/7 then that would mean less Sunday lunchtime shopping, as people shop at 11pm on Saturday (or Monday, or whatever) night say. This liberalisation might free up Sundays for many people. Burnham following the union line should be no surprise, nor should the aim of unions to bankrupt businesses rather than support them. If Montgomerie opposes a tory measure that should be the least surprise of all, he is after all as thick as a plank.
0 -
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" - Matthew 22:21.HYUFD said:
You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of RestFlightpathl said:
Is it wrong for the NHS to treat people on Sundays? To get the best value out of its static facilities and to treat people more quickly the NHS is moving to ''24/7''.HYUFD said:
Sunday trading is not a left or right issue but a religious v secular issue, liberals and libertartians in both parties would back extending hours, social conservatives and traditionalists would oppose it.felix said:
If you need to ask the question your political nous needs a re-tune. Ditto the point about Tim Montgomerie. Or maybe your love affair with Andy is clouding your judgement.HYUFD said:
What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs, indeed the religious Tim Montgomerie, former editor of conservativehome and IDS' former aide backs Burnham on this. In Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbathfelix said:Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas
To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.
To open more on Sundays, businesses will have to employ more people and arrange shifts to accommodate rotation. Pay will be higher for Sunday working.
Many industries work shifts including weekend shifts if the demand is there. Even if such shifts do not include Sundays it's likely that maintenance work will be done on Sundays as a result.
It occurs to be that if opening hours are liberalised to literally 24/7 then that would mean less Sunday lunchtime shopping, as people shop at 11pm on Saturday (or Monday, or whatever) night say. This liberalisation might free up Sundays for many people. Burnham following the union line should be no surprise, nor should the aim of unions to bankrupt businesses rather than support them. If Montgomerie opposes a tory measure that should be the least surprise of all, he is after all as thick as a plank.0 -
David Laws unlikely to stand for Parliament again, interview with BBC Points West.0
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The last 'tory led government' increased the retirement ages. It also cut spending. It also put up VAT. The current tory govt is cutting benefits spending and searching out tax avoidance.Indigo said:There have been some posts of quite breathtaking fatuity from the usual suspects today on what Greece should have done over the past five years to make the situation better today than it is, but they overlook two basic facts of life.
Firstly, the program of reform, whatever it might be, has to be one that would allow the government to get elected, and not subsequently thrown out. Its the Junker Maxim writ large " We all know what to do, we just don't know how to get re-elected after we've done it", or in the case of Greece, elected in the first place. No Greek government is going to get elected on the basis of large increases in pension age and taxes, it might be what they need, but the political reality is it wont happen. For the reasons mentioned below it will take a long time to enact and the government will change before it happens and the ideas will get ditched.
snip
Greece is in many ways like many of the countries I do business in, taxes are reduced mostly by making arrangements with your tax collection officer to mutual benefit. He has no interest in changing this because he profits from the arrangement, his boss has no interest in changing it because he gets a cut, and his boss gets a cut as well, and so forth.
Reforming those sort of societies and structures is painfully slow ....
But hey lets let Greece and the Greeks get away with it.
I imagine official bribery as you suggest is widespread in places like africa and in the far east - probably Russia. But it should not be endemic in Europe, irrespective of the EU the Euro or whatever.
Once again I suggest that its because this govt are doing the right things to reform our broken economy and social security system that we should give it our support.
0 -
If I'm reading the map correctly, the nearest is about 30-45 minutes from me, unfortunately.ThomasNashe said:
You should join PureGym (springing up all over London now). No joining fee, c. £20 a month, open 24/7, loads of equipment.antifrank said:
That is, I'm sure, the logic. But they are usually very busy in those shorter opening hours. I have seen queuing outside the gyms at 10am waiting for them to open.isam said:
City workers must be the main users of gyms round there wouldn't you say? That would be my guess at the limited weekend opening hoursantifrank said:
This is one of my gripes: gym opening hours at weekends round me are bafflingly short.TGOHF said:
Will she campaign for restaurants, pubs and gyms to be limited to 6hrs ?bigjohnowls said:Liz Kendall @leicesterliz 20m20 minutes ago
The Sunday Trading Act works: retailers can trade, customers can shop, shopworkers can spend time with families. Why change it?
Labour are a laughing stock.0 -
God's day is the SabbathSunil_Prasannan said:
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" - Matthew 22:21.HYUFD said:
You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of RestFlightpathl said:
Is it wrong for the NHS to treat people on Sundays? To get the best value out of its static facilities and to treat people more quickly the NHS is moving to ''24/7''.HYUFD said:
Sunday trading is not a left or right issue but a religious v secular issue, liberals and libertartians in both parties would back extending hours, social conservatives and traditionalists would oppose it.felix said:
If you need to ask the question your political nous needs a re-tune. Ditto the point about Tim Montgomerie. Or maybe your love affair with Andy is clouding your judgement.HYUFD said:
What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs, indeed the religious Tim Montgomerie, former editor of conservativehome and IDS' former aide backs Burnham on this. In Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbathfelix said:Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas
To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.
To open more on Sundays, businesses will have to employ more people and arrange shifts to accommodate rotation. Pay will be higher for Sunday working.
Many industries work shifts including weekend shifts if the demand is there. Even if such shifts do not include Sundays it's likely that maintenance work will be done on Sundays as a result.
It occurs to be that if opening hours are liberalised to literally 24/7 then that would mean less Sunday lunchtime shopping, as people shop at 11pm on Saturday (or Monday, or whatever) night say. This liberalisation might free up Sundays for many people. Burnham following the union line should be no surprise, nor should the aim of unions to bankrupt businesses rather than support them. If Montgomerie opposes a tory measure that should be the least surprise of all, he is after all as thick as a plank.0 -
There is an argument allowing small convenience stores only to open late on Sundays gives them their one chance in the week to compete with the big boy supermarketsnotme said:
Did the Lord make an exception for stores less than 3,000 sq feet?HYUFD said:
You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of RestFlightpathl said:
Is it wrong for the NHS to treat people on Sundays? To get the best value out of its static facilities and to treat people more quickly the NHS is moving to ''24/7''.HYUFD said:
Sunday trading is not a left or right issue but a religious v secular issue, liberals and libertartians in both parties would back extending hours, social conservatives and traditionalists would oppose it.felix said:
If you need to ask the question your political nous needs a re-tune. Ditto the point about Tim Montgomerie. Or maybe your love affair with Andy is clouding your judgement.HYUFD said:
What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs, indeed the religious Tim Montgomerie, former editor of conservativehome and IDS' former aide backs Burnham on this. In Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbathfelix said:Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas
To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.
To open more on Sundays, businesses will have to employ more people and arrange shifts to accommodate rotation. Pay will be higher for Sunday working.
Many industries work shifts including weekend shifts if the demand is there. Even if such shifts do not include Sundays it's likely that maintenance work will be done on Sundays as a result.
It occurs to be that if opening hours are liberalised to literally 24/7 then that would mean less Sunday lunchtime shopping, as people shop at 11pm on Saturday (or Monday, or whatever) night say. This liberalisation might free up Sundays for many people. Burnham following the union line should be no surprise, nor should the aim of unions to bankrupt businesses rather than support them. If Montgomerie opposes a tory measure that should be the least surprise of all, he is after all as thick as a plank.0 -
Why would Almighty God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
God's day is the SabbathSunil_Prasannan said:
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" - Matthew 22:21.HYUFD said:
You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of RestFlightpathl said:
Is it wrong for the NHS to treat people on Sundays? To get the best value out of its static facilities and to treat people more quickly the NHS is moving to ''24/7''.HYUFD said:
Sunday trading is not a left or right issue but a religious v secular issue, liberals and libertartians in both parties would back extending hours, social conservatives and traditionalists would oppose it.felix said:
If you need to ask the question your political nous needs a re-tune. Ditto the point about Tim Montgomerie. Or maybe your love affair with Andy is clouding your judgement.HYUFD said:
What is 'Old Labour' about it? Most of the opposition to liberalising the old Sunday trading laws came from Tory MPs, indeed the religious Tim Montgomerie, former editor of conservativehome and IDS' on this. In Scotland some areas like the Western Isles, which are strongly SNP, still have all their shops shut entirely on the Sabbathfelix said:Classic old Labour from Burnham - Mandy will be choking on his guacamole -oops I mean mushy peas
To be serious it suggests that there isn't going to be much in the way of new thinking in his Labour Party. Has he even considered that the measure might give some extra hours or jobs for those who most need it? We do need some credible opposition - looks like it'll be down to the SNP.
To open more on Sundays, businesses will have to employ more people and arrange shifts to accommodate rotation. Pay will be higher for Sunday working.
Many industries work shifts including weekend shifts if the demand is there. Even if such shifts do not include Sundays it's likely that maintenance work will be done on Sundays as a result.
It occurs to be that if opening hours are liberalised to literally 24/7 then that would mean less Sunday lunchtime shopping, as people shop at 11pm on Saturday (or Monday, or whatever) night say. This liberalisation might free up Sundays for many people. Burnham following the union line should be no surprise, nor should the aim of unions to bankrupt businesses rather than support them. If Montgomerie opposes a tory measure that should be the least surprise of all, he is after all as thick as a plank.0 -
Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
It is a day to be set aside for religious worship, for contemplation, family and rest from the labours of the weekSunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!0 -
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.0 -
Ony in Tory fantasy world, Mr Price. You should not forget that the SDP came into being because of Roy Jenkins and David Steel. That set of circmstances is unlikely to repeat itself!Tissue_Price said:If Corbyn wins - and at 8/1 maybe we have to start taking it vaguely seriously - there'd surely be a Limehouse declaration in short order (can't see a mass defection to Farron having much appeal, but a new SDP might scoop up a few Orange Bookers too).
0 -
Well obviously we cannot find out until we see what is in the proposals tomorrow, but I would expect religious MPs from the main parties, plus all the DUP MPs, to vote against, even if it passes anyway0
-
Tesco, Sainsburys, Co-op and others are all 'big boy' companies and run many stores that are just under the required limit to get past the law.HYUFD said:
There is an argument allowing small convenience stores only to open late on Sundays gives them their one chance in the week to compete with the big boy supermarkets0 -
Tsipras, Sturgeon and Farage do not seem to have done too badly out of itnotme said:It's reactionary knee jerkism. It's Mr Angry politics. Hague was great at it, Ed could do it now and then as well. Kinnock was truly the master.
Whatever is said or done, even on things you probably would agree with, you oppose it. You find a vocal group of people who support you.
It's the path to political oblivion, even if you have wider support on that particular issue.0 -
That's a shame, but keep a look out- they're opening new gyms all the time. I joined 18 months ago from Virgin (who used to frustrate me by opening at 8.30 am on weekends, when I like to go around 7). In the process I saved over £40 a month, and now find I now longer have to wait for a cross-trainer etc - as I used to have to do quite often at Virgin. I seriously think they are in the process of smashing the competition (that is if you go to a gym to exercise, rather than meet your friends for coffee/ sit in the sauna).antifrank said:
If I'm reading the map correctly, the nearest is about 30-45 minutes from me, unfortunately.ThomasNashe said:
You should join PureGym (springing up all over London now). No joining fee, c. £20 a month, open 24/7, loads of equipment.antifrank said:
That is, I'm sure, the logic. But they are usually very busy in those shorter opening hours. I have seen queuing outside the gyms at 10am waiting for them to open.isam said:
City workers must be the main users of gyms round there wouldn't you say? That would be my guess at the limited weekend opening hoursantifrank said:
This is one of my gripes: gym opening hours at weekends round me are bafflingly short.TGOHF said:
Will she campaign for restaurants, pubs and gyms to be limited to 6hrs ?bigjohnowls said:Liz Kendall @leicesterliz 20m20 minutes ago
The Sunday Trading Act works: retailers can trade, customers can shop, shopworkers can spend time with families. Why change it?
Labour are a laughing stock.0 -
Lol - so if shops were only open on a Saturday takings would remain static as everyone would do all their shopping in one day ?HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Is online spending on Xmas day zero ?
0 -
This is nothing to do with our government so I don't know why you felt the need to put in a quick commercial for them in your reply.Flightpathl said:The last 'tory led government' increased the retirement ages. It also cut spending. It also put up VAT. The current tory govt is cutting benefits spending and searching out tax avoidance.
But hey lets let Greece and the Greeks get away with it.
I imagine official bribery as you suggest is widespread in places like africa and in the far east - probably Russia. But it should not be endemic in Europe, irrespective of the EU the Euro or whatever.
Once again I suggest that its because this govt are doing the right things to reform our broken economy and social security system that we should give it our support.
Corruption and bribery are pretty rampant in Greece, Fakelaki ("little envelopes") are commonly passed to public officials to "expedite" services or change official amounts. The same is true in Italy, where is is perfectly normal to agree the amount of tax you pay over a couple of bottles of wine, also the amount that will be passed under the table to facilitate this consideration. In my experience a cut from all these payments are paid to their boss, and he passes on a cut of his aggregate payments to his boss and so forth. This means there is no interest from the middle ranking civil servant in promoting reform,because it cuts into their own profits, and they obstruct reform as often as they can. Recent studies in Greece suggest that almost a billion euros a year are paid by the public in these sort of payments, and rather more than a billion by corporations and businesses.0 -
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
It is a day to be set aside for religious worship, for contemplation, family and rest from the labours of the weekSunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!0 -
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.0 -
Well quite.Philip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.0 -
The number who would physically pend their Sunday evening going shopping rather than doing it at any other time on the weekend are virtually nilTGOHF said:
Lol - so if shops were only open on a Saturday takings would remain static as everyone would do all their shopping in one day ?HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Is online spending on Xmas day zero ?0 -
A few of their convenience stores yes, not their main out of town superstores which are the real problem for small businessesJosiasJessop said:
Tesco, Sainsburys, Co-op and others are all 'big boy' companies and run many stores that are just under the required limit to get past the law.HYUFD said:
There is an argument allowing small convenience stores only to open late on Sundays gives them their one chance in the week to compete with the big boy supermarkets0 -
HYUFD Farage doesn't lead a government, unlike Alexis or Nicola!HYUFD said:
Tsipras, Sturgeon and Farage do not seem to have done too badly out of itnotme said:It's reactionary knee jerkism. It's Mr Angry politics. Hague was great at it, Ed could do it now and then as well. Kinnock was truly the master.
Whatever is said or done, even on things you probably would agree with, you oppose it. You find a vocal group of people who support you.
It's the path to political oblivion, even if you have wider support on that particular issue.0 -
You don't know me or my life. I say it is not ample time, who are you to say otherwise?HYUFD said:
You have from 10am-6pm to go to Tesco and B and Q on a Sunday as the law stands, that is ample time to get what you needPhilip_Thompson said:
While many are not. I for one am a Tory atheist and that is far from unusual in this century - or the last. Many who are also see a separation between Church and State laws - as has been quite common since the eighteenth at least.HYUFD said:You are confusing a Tory measure with a laissez-faire measure, the 2 are not the same, many Tories are still churchgoing traditionalist Christians. Even Jesus made an exception for healing on the Day of Rest
Christians can do what they please on Sundays I don't care, but if I want to go to Tesco's or to B&Q I don't see why the law says that isn't an option.
I used to work shift work until midnight and would frequently do shopping on my way home in my so-called 24 hours Tesco's. Sunday trading regulations don't just screw up Sundays but Saturdays too. Saturday and Sunday nights on my way home the Tesco's would be closed.
If they want to open and I want to shop there then you can mind your own business.0 -
Bit of a bugger for those whose holy day is a Friday or Saturday.HYUFD said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
It is a day to be set aside for religious worship, for contemplation, family and rest from the labours of the weekSunil_Prasannan said:
Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?HYUFD said:
Genesis 2:2 'By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.'Sunil_Prasannan said:Why would an Almighty, Omniscient God need to "rest" like a mere mortal?
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!
Exodus 20:8-11 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall LABOR, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'
Anthropomorphism of the worst kind!0 -
I'm lost here - you can choose not to go shopping, why should your religious belief restrict what I want to do?HYUFD said:
The number who would physically pend their Sunday evening going shopping rather than doing it at any other time on the weekend are virtually nilTGOHF said:
Lol - so if shops were only open on a Saturday takings would remain static as everyone would do all their shopping in one day ?HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Is online spending on Xmas day zero ?0 -
No, I remember times when I've felt like doing a shop on a Sunday Evening, definitely. It's a quiet time - and not much else is going on... so can be ideal.HYUFD said:
The number who would physically pend their Sunday evening going shopping rather than doing it at any other time on the weekend are virtually nilTGOHF said:
Lol - so if shops were only open on a Saturday takings would remain static as everyone would do all their shopping in one day ?HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Is online spending on Xmas day zero ?0 -
What about the religious beliefs of the shop staff ?Plato said:I'm lost here - you can choose not to go shopping, why should your religious belief restrict what I want to do?
HYUFD said:
The number who would physically pend their Sunday evening going shopping rather than doing it at any other time on the weekend are virtually nilTGOHF said:
Lol - so if shops were only open on a Saturday takings would remain static as everyone would do all their shopping in one day ?HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Is online spending on Xmas day zero ?0 -
They can make arrangements as individuals. Considering the sabbath is a Saturday, while for Muslims its a Friday then Sunday trading laws for everyone should have nothing to do with religion.Indigo said:What about the religious beliefs of the shop staff ?
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If my cinema can open from 9am on a Sunday, and stay open until 11pm then so should my local Waitrose, Tesco et al.0
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"You should join PureGym (springing up all over London now). No joining fee, c. £20 a month, open 24/7, loads of equipment."
Metropolitan extortion.
I currently use one that charges £9.99 a month and no joining fee, but there's a new one opening up nearby with loads of equipment who will be charging £60 a year.
But this is Burnham land - home of the porky people.0 -
"Latvian central bank chief: new currency is now likely
ECB governing board member Ilmars Rimsevics, who represents the newest member of the eurozone Latvia, has admitted that the monetary union is gearing up for life without one member.
He said today: "The Greek nation has been brave and has voted itself out of the eurozone."
"The overall effect is that we see that a state, which has not kept its promises, which has not done the necessary homework, might be out of the euro zone one day. And it means that the euro zone might become stronger."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11719974/Greece-news-live-Banks-to-remain-shut-for-another-two-days-as-creditors-squeeze-country-after-No-vote.html0 -
Generally speaking, on Sunday, I catch a train from Sheffield at 7pm that gets me into Manchester for 8pm.Pulpstar said:
No, I remember times when I've felt like doing a shop on a Sunday Evening, definitely. It's a quiet time - and not much else is going on... so can be ideal.HYUFD said:
The number who would physically pend their Sunday evening going shopping rather than doing it at any other time on the weekend are virtually nilTGOHF said:
Lol - so if shops were only open on a Saturday takings would remain static as everyone would do all their shopping in one day ?HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Is online spending on Xmas day zero ?
Longer shopping hours on a Sunday would suit me.
The smallish Tesco express near Piccadilly just doesn't cut it for me.0 -
I used to regularly shop at about 3am when I worked very strange hours - the advent of 24/7 Tescos was brilliant.
My new local supermarket is only open 7am-10pm because that's what the local customers will support. A larger store down the road is open 24/7 as it's got a wider reach and fulfills online orders for a large chunk of Eastern Sx.
Talking about Sunday Trading feels so thirty years ago.Pulpstar said:
No, I remember times when I've felt like doing a shop on a Sunday Evening, definitely. It's a quiet time - and not much else is going on... so can be ideal.HYUFD said:
The number who would physically pend their Sunday evening going shopping rather than doing it at any other time on the weekend are virtually nilTGOHF said:
Lol - so if shops were only open on a Saturday takings would remain static as everyone would do all their shopping in one day ?HYUFD said:
The increase in takings from opening on a Sunday evening would be little more than zeroTGOHF said:
Should imagine relaxation of these laws would mean more growth, more employment, more VAT returns, more tax receipts etc etc - which will move votes.HYUFD said:
Indeed, no-one is going to vote on the basis they can shop on Sunday until 10pm rather than 4pm, a few religious voters may switch their vote if a candidate promises to respect the Sabbath's tradition as a day of restNickPalmer said:Smart move for this selectorate - it's USDAW's big campaign issue, and they are the traditional union that backs centre-right (in Labour terms) candidates: this will tilt them away from Kendall if she goes the other way. I also think the public is split between people who find longer opening hours mildly convenient (but won't switch their votes over it) vs people who are strongly opposed: it's one of those issues where you gain votes from a minority who actually take an interest.
I've often met non-Labour voters, especially women, who say they think it's a bit of a shame not to ensure that Sunday's a bit of a break from the normal hectic life. I don't think I've ever met a voter who said that this change was important to them, though of course if shops are open people will use them. It's not obvious that it will increase actual total purchases, so the economic benefits are unclear.
The current law as I understand it allows long opening hours for small shops - I doubt if those Tescos mentioned are Tesco Extras?
Is online spending on Xmas day zero ?0
