politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris reminds us once again why the normal rules of politic
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Imagine the look on Angela's face when he wheeled in a new Edstone carved from the Parthenon.williamglenn said:
The Greeks should draft in Ed Miliband as a negotiator. Merkel would back down just to make it stop.Sandpit said:
Surely the moment that the general public realised Ed was crap?Morris_Dancer said:"What I'm saying is that these strikes are wrong. The government's acted in a reckless and provocative manner."
youtube.com/watch?v=wCem9EZb-YA
"These debts are wrong. The IMF has acted in a reckless and irresponsible manner."0 -
Standing next to a swamp. All that's missing is a banjo.dr_spyn said:Suspect with Rhodesian and Union of South Africa Flags on jacket.
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-06-18/church-shooting-suspect-received-gun-as-21st-birthday-present/0 -
Yes, next week, Monday to Friday I plan to run at least one daily thread on AV/electoral reform.Scott_P said:Are we going to get a thread on how AV impacted the select committee chair elections?
If you're lucky, you might get two in a day.
Those who voted No 2 AV, will regret their decision after next week.0 -
I laughed way too much at thiswilliamglenn said:
The Greeks should draft in Ed Miliband as a negotiator. Merkel would back down just to make it stop.Sandpit said:
Surely the moment that the general public realised Ed was crap?Morris_Dancer said:"What I'm saying is that these strikes are wrong. The government's acted in a reckless and provocative manner."
youtube.com/watch?v=wCem9EZb-YA
"These debts are wrong. The IMF has acted in a reckless and irresponsible manner."
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The figures for 16-64 do include pensioners - private ones.
A higher inactivity figure can be symptomatic of greater levels of private pensions and independent means. It can also mean that greater numbers of people are in higher education like university, or it can mean there are more people on things like sickness or lone parent benefits.
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Mr. 565, Labour went from Brown to Miliband. But who is next? Hard to believe anyone standing could be as bad as Miliband.0
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Rory tees off at the US Open in about 20 minutes. It's an interesting course, with only one - count it ONE - tree on the property.
It's a public course, and is one of the very few courses with no club house.0 -
How the interviewer did not start giggling is beyond me. Sound bite politics at its very worse.Dair said:
I saw this with a split screen where the buzz phrases get highlighted each time he repeats them. It's such a great example of Waffle Politics.Sandpit said:
Surely the moment that the general public realised Ed was crap?Morris_Dancer said:"What I'm saying is that these strikes are wrong. The government's acted in a reckless and provocative manner."
youtube.com/watch?v=wCem9EZb-YA
Ah found it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g4ivIid12o0 -
I think Burnham would be. He shouts overly emotional tribal signaling to me.
He's no leader - he's a *cause* bloke. Get him a job working for International Rescue.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 565, Labour went from Brown to Miliband. But who is next? Hard to believe anyone standing could be as bad as Miliband.
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Miss Plato, the overly emotional aspect I agree with, and I've said he's a lightweight for years, but he'd need some special skills to be worse than Miliband.0
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OT Fascinating stuff
A Kamikaze pilot has spoken of the moment he was saved from a suicide mission after Japan surrendered in the Second World War just before he took off.
Hishashi Tezuka was on a train headed to take off on his mission in September 1945 and was aware he wouldn't return.
But before he had a chance to reach his final destination, Emperor Hirohiti announced Japan's surrender in a radio broadcast.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3129884/The-Kamikaze-pilot-survived-Japan-s-Emperor-surrendered-just-suicide-mission.html#ixzz3dQXvKy8A
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook0 -
More interesting than the debate itself imo, was the chat that Newsnight had with swing voters in the audience afterwards.
One lady did mention in passing that the reason she hadn't voted Labour was because she didn't think they were careful enough with money, and one said they were crap on immigration. But the overwhelming consensus among those people was that Labour didn't seem to stand for anything, and that all the candidates just seemed to be throwing out all the usual vague politics-talk. Is moving closer to the supposed "centre-ground" as Kendall wants going to solve that problem?0 -
Of course the Boris incident just happened to be filmed by a passer-by!!
On reflection, I still think last night's debate was pretty uninspiring. What is equally worrying is the apparent poor education of a lot of the audience who take part in these events. Some struggle to put a coherent sentence together.
Yvette Cooper irritates me to death. There was a fleeting glimpse of her 'barracking' the PM at PMQs last week. I notice she is bragging that she will give the PM an even bigger 'woman' problem (which, in my view he doesn't have). So much for equality when women think they can be as rude as they like to men but throw their toys out of the pram when men are perceived to be rude to them. She is just a female version of her husband.0 -
MPs have voted against 16 and 17 year olds voting in the EU referendum by 310 votes to 265.0
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I can't quite believe that Labour were forced into EdM Speaks Human.
Really?Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, the overly emotional aspect I agree with, and I've said he's a lightweight for years, but he'd need some special skills to be worse than Miliband.
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A pretty frightening thought that there are 265 MPs in favour of giving children the vote.AndyJS said:MPs have voted against 16 and 17 year olds voting in the EU referendum by 310 votes to 265.
The country had an extremely lucky escape on May 7th. Let's hope our luck lasts.0 -
Mr. JS, good to hear, though the margin should've been bigger.
It's strange that a 17 year old suicide bomber was described as 'vulnerable' and one or two 16 year old schoolgirls who went to Syria likewise, yet some people want to give them the vote. You can't be of an age to make adult decisions like who governs the UK and yet so weak-minded you can be persuaded it's a good idea to blow yourself up in a foreign country.0 -
Surely if you're old enough to blow yourself, you're old enough to vote on membership of the EUMorris_Dancer said:Mr. JS, good to hear, though the margin should've been bigger.
It's strange that a 17 year old suicide bomber was described as 'vulnerable' and one or two 16 year old schoolgirls who went to Syria likewise, yet some people want to give them the vote. You can't be of an age to make adult decisions like who governs the UK and yet so weak-minded you can be persuaded it's a good idea to blow yourself up in a foreign country.0 -
Indeed. The Liberal Democrats even wanted to expand the number of foreigners voting in our elections.Richard_Nabavi said:
A pretty frightening thought that there are 265 MPs in favour of giving children the vote.AndyJS said:MPs have voted against 16 and 17 year olds voting in the EU referendum by 310 votes to 265.
The country had an extremely lucky escape on May 7th. Let's hope our luck lasts.0 -
That reminded me of a joke from my 1960s school days, when political correctness was unheard of.Plato said:OT Fascinating stuff
A Kamikaze pilot has spoken of the moment he was saved from a suicide mission after Japan surrendered in the Second World War just before he took off.
Hishashi Tezuka was on a train headed to take off on his mission in September 1945 and was aware he wouldn't return.
But before he had a chance to reach his final destination, Emperor Hirohiti announced Japan's surrender in a radio broadcast.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3129884/The-Kamikaze-pilot-survived-Japan-s-Emperor-surrendered-just-suicide-mission.html#ixzz3dQXvKy8A
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Did you hear about the Irish kamikaze pilot? 15 successful missions!0 -
The repetition of soundbites is absolutely woeful but behind that there is nearly as much comedy in the utterly fake sincerity he tries to give to every single word.DavidL said:
How the interviewer did not start giggling is beyond me. Sound bite politics at its very worse.Dair said:
I saw this with a split screen where the buzz phrases get highlighted each time he repeats them. It's such a great example of Waffle Politics.Sandpit said:
Surely the moment that the general public realised Ed was crap?Morris_Dancer said:"What I'm saying is that these strikes are wrong. The government's acted in a reckless and provocative manner."
youtube.com/watch?v=wCem9EZb-YA
Ah found it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g4ivIid12o0 -
Not to mention that plummy adenoidal voice.Dair said:
The repetition of soundbites is absolutely woeful but behind that there is nearly as much comedy in the utterly fake sincerity he tries to give to every single word.DavidL said:
How the interviewer did not start giggling is beyond me. Sound bite politics at its very worse.Dair said:
I saw this with a split screen where the buzz phrases get highlighted each time he repeats them. It's such a great example of Waffle Politics.Sandpit said:
Surely the moment that the general public realised Ed was crap?Morris_Dancer said:"What I'm saying is that these strikes are wrong. The government's acted in a reckless and provocative manner."
youtube.com/watch?v=wCem9EZb-YA
Ah found it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g4ivIid12o0 -
Not in that order, no.rcs1000 said:
Surely if you're old enough to blow yourself, you're old enough to vote on membership of the EUMorris_Dancer said:Mr. JS, good to hear, though the margin should've been bigger.
It's strange that a 17 year old suicide bomber was described as 'vulnerable' and one or two 16 year old schoolgirls who went to Syria likewise, yet some people want to give them the vote. You can't be of an age to make adult decisions like who governs the UK and yet so weak-minded you can be persuaded it's a good idea to blow yourself up in a foreign country.0 -
Maybe not that surprising. Half the cyclists in London seem to sport a camera these days. So they can record and report the abuse they get from taxi drivers, amongst other thingsLadyBucket said:Of course the Boris incident just happened to be filmed by a passer-by!!
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Well it won't be for lack of trying.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 565, Labour went from Brown to Miliband. But who is next? Hard to believe anyone standing could be as bad as Miliband.
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16yos are not children.Richard_Nabavi said:
A pretty frightening thought that there are 265 MPs in favour of giving children the vote.AndyJS said:MPs have voted against 16 and 17 year olds voting in the EU referendum by 310 votes to 265.
The country had an extremely lucky escape on May 7th. Let's hope our luck lasts.0 -
Mr. Antifrank, reminds me of this:
Duncan yawned and scratched at a spot on his temple. “According to my reckoning, you shall be punished thusly. Hanged twice, for major theft and unlawfully slaying a beast in the Comte’s forest. Lashed… let me see… four hundred and twenty-seven times for adultery, fornication and minor theft. Lastly, imprisoned for tax evasion and rigging boxing matches for,” the lieutenant paused and totted up the list of offences, “Ninety-six years.”
Roger the Goat nodded gravely, and asked, “In what order?”
[From Bane of Souls, which is mostly serious but does have the odd lighter moment].0 -
Good for Boris - those London cabbies had a monopoly long enough.Anorak said:
Maybe not that surprising. Half the cyclists in London seem to sport a camera these days. So they can record and report the abuse they get from taxi drivers, amongst other thingsLadyBucket said:Of course the Boris incident just happened to be filmed by a passer-by!!
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Mr. Dair, bah, humbug.
If anything, the age of majority should be rising.
Also, I think it's crackers that the school leaving age has gone up but some want to decrease the age at which people can vote (and there's a large overlap between those who approved the former and also want the latter).0 -
Anyone who can rig boxing matches for 96 years at least deserves the Don King Follicle Erection Award...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Antifrank, reminds me of this:
Duncan yawned and scratched at a spot on his temple. “According to my reckoning, you shall be punished thusly. Hanged twice, for major theft and unlawfully slaying a beast in the Comte’s forest. Lashed… let me see… four hundred and twenty-seven times for adultery, fornication and minor theft. Lastly, imprisoned for tax evasion and rigging boxing matches for,” the lieutenant paused and totted up the list of offences, “Ninety-six years.”
Roger the Goat nodded gravely, and asked, “In what order?”
[From Bane of Souls, which is mostly serious but does have the odd lighter moment].0 -
Ageists!!AndyJS said:MPs have voted against 16 and 17 year olds voting in the EU referendum by 310 votes to 265.
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Sense at last from the HOC..0
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Well quite.Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Dair, bah, humbug.
If anything, the age of majority should be rising.
Also, I think it's crackers that the school leaving age has gone up but some want to decrease the age at which people can vote (and there's a large overlap between those who approved the former and also want the latter).0 -
Or, more to the point:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. JS, good to hear, though the margin should've been bigger.
It's strange that a 17 year old suicide bomber was described as 'vulnerable' and one or two 16 year old schoolgirls who went to Syria likewise, yet some people want to give them the vote. You can't be of an age to make adult decisions like who governs the UK and yet so weak-minded you can be persuaded it's a good idea to blow yourself up in a foreign country.
- Be held to a contract (in most cases)
- Place a bet or even enter a betting shop
- Buy a can of lager
- Buy certain DVDs or computer games
- Buy a cigarrete lighter refill
- Enter into a monthly contract for a mobile phone
The idea that a 16-year old is not sufficiently responsible and aware to do all those, but is sufficiently responsbile and aware to vote, is plainly bonkers. If Labour think that 16- and 17-year olds are responsible adults, they should say so and propose to amend all of the above.
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Out of interest, what is the penalty for someone who leaves school at 16 and then drops out of college?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Dair, bah, humbug.
If anything, the age of majority should be rising.
Also, I think it's crackers that the school leaving age has gone up but some want to decrease the age at which people can vote (and there's a large overlap between those who approved the former and also want the latter).
This seems one of the most bizarre and ridiculous law changes of recent years and is a blatantly political manipulation of the economic statistics regardless of the negative impact that it will have.
Thankfully it does not apply in Scotland, where adults can leave school if they so choose.0 -
Or they don't trust their illegitimate offspring ....Sunil_Prasannan said:
Ageists!!AndyJS said:MPs have voted against 16 and 17 year olds voting in the EU referendum by 310 votes to 265.
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Mr. Nabavi, point four is one I like. If you're too young for Fallout 4, you're too young to vote.0
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They most certainly are, in practice as well as in most international legal definitions:Dair said:16yos are not children.
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child defines child as "a human being below the age of 18 years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child
Scotland and a couple of other minor jurisdictions are exceptions to this generally-accepted definition.0 -
The age of majority is always going to be a muddle if we think that we need the same age as a marker for all things. Once that idea is abandoned, it all gets much easier.
For good or ill, we have accepted the age of consent as being 16 but we have also accepted that under 18s remain vulnerable to exploitation, so teachers and those in a position of trust cannot have sex with their charges, you can't marry without parental consent until age 18 and any pornography featuring an under 18 is deemed to be child pornography (so you can have sex with a 16 year old but you can't photograph him or her naked).
Where does voting sit in all this? In truth, it's a pretty minor exercise of adult privileges. Is it more important to encourage young people into the habit of voting or to wait until they have reached the age where the law elsewhere deems them to be beyond the need (or help) of protection?
Personally, I would give 16 and 17 year olds the vote in one-off referenda because they're going to be living with the consequences longer than the rest of us. I'm less convinced for general elections, but really not too fussed either way.0 -
Having sex but being unable to buy someone filming it strikes me as very peculiar.Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Nabavi, point four is one I like. If you're too young for Fallout 4, you're too young to vote.
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Mr. Dair, no idea. Fortunately I'd left high school before that particularly nonsense was dreamt up (although I did have the delight of Key Skills. There were three [maths, English and IT, I think] and were nothing but a waste of time. I believe they were dropped a couple of years after coming in).
Edited extra bit: Miss Plato, ha, that's true.
I find the porn/prostitute argument a bit odd. It's legal to sell yourself for sex, but only to another professional on condition it's filmed/photographed. Seems peculiar to me.0 -
Does it apply equally to both people and farm animals?Plato said:Having sex but being unable to buy someone filming it strikes me as very peculiar.
Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Nabavi, point four is one I like. If you're too young for Fallout 4, you're too young to vote.
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I think the opposite is true.
Using your logic anyone able to put X on a ballot has longer - such as 3yrs old. Living with the consequences for the entire population requires maturity that 16yrs olds don't have and I didn't.antifrank said:The age of majority is always going to be a muddle if we think that we need the same age as a marker for all things. Once that idea is abandoned, it all gets much easier.
For good or ill, we have accepted the age of consent as being 16 but we have also accepted that under 18s remain vulnerable to exploitation, so teachers and those in a position of trust cannot have sex with their charges, you can't marry without parental consent until age 18 and any pornography featuring an under 18 is deemed to be child pornography (so you can have sex with a 16 year old but you can't photograph him or her naked).
Where does voting sit in all this? In truth, it's a pretty minor exercise of adult privileges. Is it more important to encourage young people into the habit of voting or to wait until they have reached the age where the law elsewhere deems them to be beyond the need (or help) of protection?
Personally, I would give 16 and 17 year olds the vote in one-off referenda because they're going to be living with the consequences longer than the rest of us. I'm less convinced for general elections, but really not too fussed either way.0 -
Mr. Antifrank, "...because they're going to be living with the consequences longer than the rest of us."
By that line of argument you ought to give 14 year olds the vote as well.0 -
According to this Guardian article - not appreciating interspecies sex is horrid. I'm sure someone will teach dolphins how to use nose-cams. http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/08/the-dolphin-who-loved-me
"There were three dolphins," remembers Lovatt. "Peter, Pamela and Sissy. Sissy was the biggest. Pushy, loud, she sort of ran the show. Pamela was very shy and fearful. And Peter was a young guy. He was sexually coming of age and a bit naughty."
"Peter liked to be with me," explains Lovatt. "He would rub himself on my knee, or my foot, or my hand. And at first I would put him downstairs with the girls," she says. But transporting Peter downstairs proved so disruptive to the lessons that, faced with his frequent arousals, it just seemed easier for Lovatt to relieve his urges herself manually.Tim_B said:
Does it apply equally to both people and farm animals?Plato said:Having sex but being unable to buy someone filming it strikes me as very peculiar.
Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Nabavi, point four is one I like. If you're too young for Fallout 4, you're too young to vote.
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I thought you were one of those who wanted sovereignty returned to Westminster?Richard_Nabavi said:
They most certainly are, in practice as well as in most international legal definitions:Dair said:16yos are not children.
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child defines child as "a human being below the age of 18 years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child
Scotland and a couple of other minor jurisdictions are exceptions to this generally-accepted definition.
You do realise you are now on the side of those who believe the United Kingdom is an user of child soldiers?0 -
All the more reason for them not to be given a vote. You should encourage them to develop by giving them freedom in areas where they won't have to live with the consequences for a long time, not those where they will.antifrank said:Personally, I would give 16 and 17 year olds the vote in one-off referenda because they're going to be living with the consequences longer than the rest of us.
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There is a great deal of irony to see those who would normally argue against the Nanny State trying to gerrymander individual behaviour also argue that adults who are 16 and 17 should be subject to just such ridiculous legislation.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Nabavi, point four is one I like. If you're too young for Fallout 4, you're too young to vote.
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No, because we've decided collectively that 14 year olds don't have the maturity to make decisions about things like who they sleep with or whether they should discontinue their education. 16 to 18 is an intermediate phase where we accept that they have some maturity but don't accept that they have full maturity. The question is whether voting should go with the first stage or the last stage.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Antifrank, "...because they're going to be living with the consequences longer than the rest of us."
By that line of argument you ought to give 14 year olds the vote as well.
For me it's a fairly minor point.0 -
Mr. Dair, I've always argued for the age to remain constant or increase.
If you think it's nanny state, you must advocate all living people getting the vote regardless of age. If it's just a question of where you draw the cut-off line, then you and I agree on the principle and simply disagree on the detail.0 -
Tricky, isn't it. One could argue that many 30 year olds are insufficiently mature to vote. How do you measure maturity anyway?Plato said:I think the opposite is true.
Using your logic anyone able to put X on a ballot has longer - such as 3yrs old. Living with the consequences for the entire population requires maturity that 16yrs olds don't have and I didn't.
Or one could talk about intelligence rather than maturity. Should you need to pass an exam to vote? That would go down like a shit sandwich in most quarters.
In situations like this, I tend to look at the status quo. If it seems ok, or close enough, then I'd leave it well alone.
Finally, for all the support on here for lowering the age, let's not forget it was an utterly cynical change promoted by the SNP. They believed it was to their electoral advantage. Had the polls shown that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO, the change would never, in a million years, have seen the light of day.0 -
And is creating a small but growing number of individuals who will spend their lives on the Sex Offenders Register because they sext with their teenage crush.Plato said:Having sex but being unable to buy someone filming it strikes me as very peculiar.
Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Nabavi, point four is one I like. If you're too young for Fallout 4, you're too young to vote.
But the Law in this area is never going to get fixed because it's virtually impossible for politicians to act rationally, especially in the UK given the nature of the press.0 -
Yes, can you imagine just how bad it would have been if Ed had won? Not that I'm threatening to leave the country (as I'm not in it).....Richard_Nabavi said:
A pretty frightening thought that there are 265 MPs in favour of giving children the vote.AndyJS said:MPs have voted against 16 and 17 year olds voting in the EU referendum by 310 votes to 265.
The country had an extremely lucky escape on May 7th. Let's hope our luck lasts.0 -
I think 18 is a sensible age, less hormonal for starters.Anorak said:
Tricky, isn't it. One could argue that many 30 year olds are insufficiently mature to vote. How do you measure maturity anyway?Plato said:I think the opposite is true.
Using your logic anyone able to put X on a ballot has longer - such as 3yrs old. Living with the consequences for the entire population requires maturity that 16yrs olds don't have and I didn't.
Or one could talk about intelligence rather than maturity. Should you need to pass an exam to vote? That would go down like a shit sandwich in most quarters.
In situations like this, I tend to look at the status quo. If it seems ok, or close enough, then I'd leave it well alone.
Finally, for all the support on here for lowering the age, let's not forget it was an utterly cynical change promoted by the SNP. They believed it was to their electoral advantage. Had the polls shown that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO, the change would never, in a million years, have seen the light of day.0 -
Fifty years of immigration mapped: How Blair’s decision to open the borders to Eastern Europe changed the face of Britain
https://twitter.com/PlatoSays/status/611563774034739200
More than a third of Britain's foreign-born population are now from Europe, an official study published today shows
This includes over half a million migrants born in Poland, 100,000 migrants from Lithuania and 80,000 from Romania
Almost one in eight people in the UK were born abroad and the biggest 'ethnic minority' is now 'non British white'
Previously Britain's migrant population was dominated by ethnic minorities from Commonwealth countries0 -
Most likely we do.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Dair, I've always argued for the age to remain constant or increase.
If you think it's nanny state, you must advocate all living people getting the vote regardless of age. If it's just a question of where you draw the cut-off line, then you and I agree on the principle and simply disagree on the detail.
The best solution would be to throw the whole decision over all ages of consent/majority/contract/behaviour to technocrats and base it on some evidence based science. But the chances of that happening are probable as slim as Labour winning in 2020.0 -
All the polls DID show that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO and they remained fairly solidly NO until the last couple of months of the campaign.Anorak said:Finally, for all the support on here for lowering the age, let's not forget it was an utterly cynical change promoted by the SNP. They believed it was to their electoral advantage. Had the polls shown that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO, the change would never, in a million years, have seen the light of day.
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They may give an awkward answer, like there is no set age given people's different personalities, or that one sex can vote a year before the other!Dair said:
Most likely we do.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Dair, I've always argued for the age to remain constant or increase.
If you think it's nanny state, you must advocate all living people getting the vote regardless of age. If it's just a question of where you draw the cut-off line, then you and I agree on the principle and simply disagree on the detail.
The best solution would be to throw the whole decision over all ages of consent/majority/contract/behaviour to technocrats and base it on some evidence based science. But the chances of that happening are probable as slim as Labour winning in 2020.0 -
Not when it was first floated, and not even Salmond has the brass front to U-turn after facts came to light. Remember very little polling of youngsters had been done before the proposed rule change - why bother if they couldn't vote - so the changed was based on extrapolating the trend which showed the YES proportion increasing as age fell.Dair said:
All the polls DID show that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO and they remained fairly solidly NO until the last couple of months of the campaign.Anorak said:Finally, for all the support on here for lowering the age, let's not forget it was an utterly cynical change promoted by the SNP. They believed it was to their electoral advantage. Had the polls shown that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO, the change would never, in a million years, have seen the light of day.
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My feeling is that Politicians make terrible decisions on most things, what they would be much better doing is agreeing broad principles and then handing the policy over to suitably qualified technocrats. Effectively what has happened with the Bank of England.RobD said:
They may give an awkward answer, like there is no set age given people's different personalities, or that one sex can vote a year before the other!Dair said:
Most likely we do.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Dair, I've always argued for the age to remain constant or increase.
If you think it's nanny state, you must advocate all living people getting the vote regardless of age. If it's just a question of where you draw the cut-off line, then you and I agree on the principle and simply disagree on the detail.
The best solution would be to throw the whole decision over all ages of consent/majority/contract/behaviour to technocrats and base it on some evidence based science. But the chances of that happening are probable as slim as Labour winning in 2020.
Things like equality of race/gender/orientation would seem reasonable parts of the broad principles while the details over age itself falls to the technocrats.
I've never really looked into it but I do wonder to what degree the increasing infantilisation of the population through legislation has led to the longer term immaturity which appears to exist in society.0 -
That chart is odd, and extremely misleading, because the bars represent different time periods. It compares the 20 years 1981-2000 with the six years 2001-2006 and the five years 2007-2011. That actually has the effect of downplaying the massive increase during the Blair years of all the four categories shown other than Caribbean.Plato said:Fifty years of immigration mapped: How Blair’s decision to open the borders to Eastern Europe changed the face of Britain
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Yes. So in order to send an explicit picture to someone else the age of consent is 18.Dair said:
And is creating a small but growing number of individuals who will spend their lives on the Sex Offenders Register because they sext with their teenage crush.Plato said:Having sex but being unable to buy someone filming it strikes me as very peculiar.
Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Nabavi, point four is one I like. If you're too young for Fallout 4, you're too young to vote.
But the Law in this area is never going to get fixed because it's virtually impossible for politicians to act rationally, especially in the UK given the nature of the press.
No politician will ever lower it.
Even when we did bring online distribution of porn into line with physical distribution it turned out we were tying it to a strange system.0 -
Having a read of the renovation document on the Parliament website. Given the age of austerity, they should opt for the full decant and get it over and done with as cheaply and quickly as possible. No faffing around.0
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It also reads like, of all the immigrants currently here, what make up are they - when a disproportionate number of immigrants in later years have returned home.Richard_Nabavi said:
That chart is odd, and extremely misleading, because the bars represent different time periods. It compares the 20 years 1981-2000 with the six years 2001-2006 and the five years 2007-2011. That actually has the effect of downplaying the massive increase during the Blair years of all the four categories shown other than Caribbean.Plato said:Fifty years of immigration mapped: How Blair’s decision to open the borders to Eastern Europe changed the face of Britain
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"What I'm saying is that these MPs are wrong. Parliament has acted in a reckless and provocative manner."RobD said:
Yes, can you imagine just how bad it would have been if Ed had won? Not that I'm threatening to leave the country (as I'm not in it).....Richard_Nabavi said:
A pretty frightening thought that there are 265 MPs in favour of giving children the vote.AndyJS said:MPs have voted against 16 and 17 year olds voting in the EU referendum by 310 votes to 265.
The country had an extremely lucky escape on May 7th. Let's hope our luck lasts. 0 -
Can you point me to these polls?Anorak said:Not when it was first floated, and not even Salmond has the brass front to U-turn after facts came to light. Remember very little polling of youngsters had been done before the proposed rule change - why bother if they couldn't vote - so the changed was based on extrapolating the trend which showed the YES proportion increasing as age fell.
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It's not just the cost as you say. Can you imagine works for 32 years?RobD said:Having a read of the renovation document on the Parliament website. Given the age of austerity, they should opt for the full decant and get it over and done with as cheaply and quickly as possible. No faffing around.
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The ones I'm claiming don't exist? Er ... no, sorry, no can do.Theuniondivvie said:
Can you point me to these polls?Anorak said:Not when it was first floated, and not even Salmond has the brass front to U-turn after facts came to light. Remember very little polling of youngsters had been done before the proposed rule change - why bother if they couldn't vote - so the changed was based on extrapolating the trend which showed the YES proportion increasing as age fell.
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You're probably right.RobD said:
Probably absolutely minor when compared to the media.Dair said:
I've never really looked into it but I do wonder to what degree the increasing infantilisation of the population through legislation has led to the longer term immaturity which appears to exist in society.
Certainly the restrictions on things like alcohol, entertainment ratings and tobacco are effectively meaningless.0 -
A propos of nothing in particular, if Liz Kendall wins the Labour leadership contest, will the left of the Labour party flake off to the Greens?
What will the Blairites do if Andy Burnham wins? Sulk, snipe or walk away from the Labour party?0 -
It does seem utterly bizarre that, in English law, a 16-year old can be a company director (and therefore, presumably, sign any number or value of binding contracts on behalf of the company), but not sign a mobile phone contract in a personal capacity.
So here's a question for the PB lawyers: does a 16-year old company director who signs a company purchase order for alcoholic beverages to be served at the company Christmas Party commit an offence, and does it depend on whether she'll be partaking? For that matter, does the supplier commit an offence by fulfilling the order?0 -
No, the ones on which you claim that the SNP cynically based an election strategy (that would have affected the vote by a fraction either way) by extrapolating 'trends'. But since you mention it, you said 'very little' polling, not non-existent.Anorak said:
The ones I'm claiming don't exist? Er ... no, sorry, no can do.Theuniondivvie said:
Can you point me to these polls?Anorak said:Not when it was first floated, and not even Salmond has the brass front to U-turn after facts came to light. Remember very little polling of youngsters had been done before the proposed rule change - why bother if they couldn't vote - so the changed was based on extrapolating the trend which showed the YES proportion increasing as age fell.
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I've just had a look up on the increase in School Leaving Age which is only England, not even England and Wales.
It is a truly moronic piece of legislation.
In England, your leaving age depends on when you were born. You can leave school on the last Friday in June as long as you’ll be 16 by the end of that year’s summer holidays.
You must stay in some form of education or training until your 18th birthday if you were born on or after 1 September 1997.
Your options are:
full-time education - eg at a school or college
an apprenticeship or traineeship
part-time education or training - as well as being employed, self-employed or volunteering for 20 hours or more a week
There is no Full Time work exemption. Every single person I grew up with who went into the trades worked full time before gaining a formal apprenticeship.
Just emphasises that the "apprenticeships" government today loves to champion are nothing like the actual, real, coherent, effective, meaningful Apprenticeship most people think of when they hear the term.0 -
The youth of today, eh?Dair said:
You're probably right.RobD said:
Probably absolutely minor when compared to the media.Dair said:
I've never really looked into it but I do wonder to what degree the increasing infantilisation of the population through legislation has led to the longer term immaturity which appears to exist in society.
Certainly the restrictions on things like alcohol, entertainment ratings and tobacco are effectively meaningless.
Drink less than their parents do now, commit less crime than their parents did at their age.
Shocking.0 -
A resurgence of the yellow peril, perhaps? Assuming Farron is elected leader, which Labour leader would benefit him the most? Would Kendall leave the parties running in the same policy space?antifrank said:A propos of nothing in particular, if Liz Kendall wins the Labour leadership contest, will the left of the Labour party flake off to the Greens?
What will the Blairites do if Andy Burnham wins? Sulk, snipe or walk away from the Labour party?0 -
edit0
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New Statesman says the consensus among Labour MPs is now that Yvette Cooper is the favourite.0
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@bbclaurak: Break out the ouzo - reports aid to Greece will be extended til the end of the year..0
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YouGov — Danish exit poll:
http://www.thelocal.dk/20150618/live-denmark-goes-to-the-polls
"The blue bloc is set to get 50.4 percent of the vote and 88 mandates, and the red bloc 49.5 percent and 87 mandates."
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What is the source of the reports?Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: Break out the ouzo - reports aid to Greece will be extended til the end of the year..
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Yet more fudge in the EU, it seems.0
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The question is, just who is the frontrunner in the Labour leadership race? According to the bookmakers, it’s Andy Burnham. But increasingly, it’s Yvette Cooper who is favourite to win in Labour circles.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/bet-yvette-yvette-cooper-really-frontrunner-labour-leadership0 -
Is it an actual exit poll?AndyJS said:YouGov — Danish exit poll:
http://www.thelocal.dk/20150618/live-denmark-goes-to-the-polls
"The blue bloc is set to get 50.4 percent of the vote and 88 mandates, and the red bloc 49.5 percent and 87 mandates."0 -
In fact ''International Money Fund (IMF) boss Christine Lagarde has warned there is "no period of grace" for Greece over a debt repayment deadline.MTimT said:
What is the source of the reports?Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: Break out the ouzo - reports aid to Greece will be extended til the end of the year..
She said Greece would be in default on its loans from the IMF if it failed to make a €1.6bn (£1.1bn; $1.8bn) payment on 30 June.''
(BBC)0 -
What do you get for $1 billion these days?
I'm about to find out. Fox paid $1 billion for the rights to all USGA events (US Open, Womens Open, Senior Open plus various amataur events) for 12 years, outbidding NBC and ESPN.
Fox has previously only covered a single unofficial money event on the PGA Tour, in 2011.
The coverage came on just over half an hour ago. Front man is Joe Buck, Fox's head NFL and baseball guy, partnered by Greg Norman.
The visual coverage is great - plenty of cameras - and the new commentators - all PGA pros - tend to do what rookie commentators do when there's not much to say - they start spouting stats. They will be fine when they understand that dead air is OK during golf coverage.
Thanks to DirecTV I have an additional 7 channels of coverage in addition to the network feed.
All until 11pm this evening.
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On Greece. So the reports are from a German newspaper and do not give the conditions attached to any potential bailout extension or new cash.
Won't know if there is an extension then until Maria Callas sings.0 -
@bbclaurak: Here's the rumour http://t.co/pyUL4uE44H0
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Live Squawk @livesquawk 3m3 minutes ago
Merkel Only Knows Of Existing Offer From Greek Creditors; Doesn't Know Of Media Reports - BBG $EURUSD $MACRO0 -
O/T
Does anybody else find it incredibly annoying when you load a website, say the Guardian, you click on a story only for an advert to push the story link down the page and thus you then click the wrong link? Maybe I just need superfast broadband, but it seems to be happening on lots of webpages.0 -
Mr. Rob, that drives me mad. Doesn't happen often, but it's bloody annoying.0
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Already shot down? Lasted 5 minutes.Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: Here's the rumour http://t.co/pyUL4uE44H
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Maria Callas died in 1977, so I could suggest a more recent demise, that of Demis Roussos who died last January.MTimT said:On Greece. So the reports are from a German newspaper and do not give the conditions attached to any potential bailout extension or new cash.
Won't know if there is an extension then until Maria Callas sings.
Of course there's always Nana Mouskouri, who is still extant, I am led to believe.. 0 -
Just seen this news:
Major restoration of the Houses of Parliament without moving MPs and peers out would cost £5.7bn and take 32 years, a report says.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33184160
Bloody hell! I'm not actually opposed to spending plenty of money restoring the building, and obviously without moving them out en masse it would take quite a long time (I think the longest I'd previously seen estimated was something like 20 years), but 32 years?
I guess I'm reluctantly more in favour of the 6 year absence £3.5bn option in that case (as much as I do not like London, I don't like the idea of just putting parliament somewhere else).0 -
Or Yanni. But I was going for the opera and fat (even though Callas was not) lady sort of thingTim_B said:
Maria Callas died in 1977, so I could suggest a more recent demise, that of Demis Roussos who died last January.MTimT said:On Greece. So the reports are from a German newspaper and do not give the conditions attached to any potential bailout extension or new cash.
Won't know if there is an extension then until Maria Callas sings.
Of course there's always Nana Mouskouri, who is still extant, I am led to believe..0 -
@BBCNormanS: Scotland First Minister @NicolaSturgeon writes to PM demanding re-think over "peverse" decision to scrap wind farm subsidies0
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It happens with PB when there's loads of tweets in the main thread. Seems to have made local news sites unreadable too!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Rob, that drives me mad. Doesn't happen often, but it's bloody annoying.
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Absolutely hate it. As with PB yesterday, when the comments either would not load or would not allow me to comment.AllyPally_Rob said:O/T
Does anybody else find it incredibly annoying when you load a website, say the Guardian, you click on a story only for an advert to push the story link down the page and thus you then click the wrong link? Maybe I just need superfast broadband, but it seems to be happening on lots of webpages.
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They do play violent videogames a lot more than people did 70 years ago though. I cannot think why.TheWhiteRabbit said:
The youth of today, eh?Dair said:
You're probably right.RobD said:
Probably absolutely minor when compared to the media.Dair said:
I've never really looked into it but I do wonder to what degree the increasing infantilisation of the population through legislation has led to the longer term immaturity which appears to exist in society.
Certainly the restrictions on things like alcohol, entertainment ratings and tobacco are effectively meaningless.
Drink less than their parents do now, commit less crime than their parents did at their age.
Shocking.0
