The figures for 16-64 do include pensioners - private ones.
A higher inactivity figure can be symptomatic of greater levels of private pensions and independent means. It can also mean that greater numbers of people are in higher education like university, or it can mean there are more people on things like sickness or lone parent benefits.
Miss Plato, the overly emotional aspect I agree with, and I've said he's a lightweight for years, but he'd need some special skills to be worse than Miliband.
More interesting than the debate itself imo, was the chat that Newsnight had with swing voters in the audience afterwards.
One lady did mention in passing that the reason she hadn't voted Labour was because she didn't think they were careful enough with money, and one said they were crap on immigration. But the overwhelming consensus among those people was that Labour didn't seem to stand for anything, and that all the candidates just seemed to be throwing out all the usual vague politics-talk. Is moving closer to the supposed "centre-ground" as Kendall wants going to solve that problem?
Of course the Boris incident just happened to be filmed by a passer-by!!
On reflection, I still think last night's debate was pretty uninspiring. What is equally worrying is the apparent poor education of a lot of the audience who take part in these events. Some struggle to put a coherent sentence together.
Yvette Cooper irritates me to death. There was a fleeting glimpse of her 'barracking' the PM at PMQs last week. I notice she is bragging that she will give the PM an even bigger 'woman' problem (which, in my view he doesn't have). So much for equality when women think they can be as rude as they like to men but throw their toys out of the pram when men are perceived to be rude to them. She is just a female version of her husband.
Miss Plato, the overly emotional aspect I agree with, and I've said he's a lightweight for years, but he'd need some special skills to be worse than Miliband.
Mr. JS, good to hear, though the margin should've been bigger.
It's strange that a 17 year old suicide bomber was described as 'vulnerable' and one or two 16 year old schoolgirls who went to Syria likewise, yet some people want to give them the vote. You can't be of an age to make adult decisions like who governs the UK and yet so weak-minded you can be persuaded it's a good idea to blow yourself up in a foreign country.
Mr. JS, good to hear, though the margin should've been bigger.
It's strange that a 17 year old suicide bomber was described as 'vulnerable' and one or two 16 year old schoolgirls who went to Syria likewise, yet some people want to give them the vote. You can't be of an age to make adult decisions like who governs the UK and yet so weak-minded you can be persuaded it's a good idea to blow yourself up in a foreign country.
Surely if you're old enough to blow yourself, you're old enough to vote on membership of the EU
How the interviewer did not start giggling is beyond me. Sound bite politics at its very worse.
The repetition of soundbites is absolutely woeful but behind that there is nearly as much comedy in the utterly fake sincerity he tries to give to every single word.
How the interviewer did not start giggling is beyond me. Sound bite politics at its very worse.
The repetition of soundbites is absolutely woeful but behind that there is nearly as much comedy in the utterly fake sincerity he tries to give to every single word.
Mr. JS, good to hear, though the margin should've been bigger.
It's strange that a 17 year old suicide bomber was described as 'vulnerable' and one or two 16 year old schoolgirls who went to Syria likewise, yet some people want to give them the vote. You can't be of an age to make adult decisions like who governs the UK and yet so weak-minded you can be persuaded it's a good idea to blow yourself up in a foreign country.
Surely if you're old enough to blow yourself, you're old enough to vote on membership of the EU
Of course the Boris incident just happened to be filmed by a passer-by!!
Maybe not that surprising. Half the cyclists in London seem to sport a camera these days. So they can record and report the abuse they get from taxi drivers, amongst other things
Duncan yawned and scratched at a spot on his temple. “According to my reckoning, you shall be punished thusly. Hanged twice, for major theft and unlawfully slaying a beast in the Comte’s forest. Lashed… let me see… four hundred and twenty-seven times for adultery, fornication and minor theft. Lastly, imprisoned for tax evasion and rigging boxing matches for,” the lieutenant paused and totted up the list of offences, “Ninety-six years.”
Roger the Goat nodded gravely, and asked, “In what order?”
[From Bane of Souls, which is mostly serious but does have the odd lighter moment].
Of course the Boris incident just happened to be filmed by a passer-by!!
Maybe not that surprising. Half the cyclists in London seem to sport a camera these days. So they can record and report the abuse they get from taxi drivers, amongst other things
Good for Boris - those London cabbies had a monopoly long enough.
If anything, the age of majority should be rising.
Also, I think it's crackers that the school leaving age has gone up but some want to decrease the age at which people can vote (and there's a large overlap between those who approved the former and also want the latter).
Duncan yawned and scratched at a spot on his temple. “According to my reckoning, you shall be punished thusly. Hanged twice, for major theft and unlawfully slaying a beast in the Comte’s forest. Lashed… let me see… four hundred and twenty-seven times for adultery, fornication and minor theft. Lastly, imprisoned for tax evasion and rigging boxing matches for,” the lieutenant paused and totted up the list of offences, “Ninety-six years.”
Roger the Goat nodded gravely, and asked, “In what order?”
[From Bane of Souls, which is mostly serious but does have the odd lighter moment].
Anyone who can rig boxing matches for 96 years at least deserves the Don King Follicle Erection Award...
If anything, the age of majority should be rising.
Also, I think it's crackers that the school leaving age has gone up but some want to decrease the age at which people can vote (and there's a large overlap between those who approved the former and also want the latter).
Mr. JS, good to hear, though the margin should've been bigger.
It's strange that a 17 year old suicide bomber was described as 'vulnerable' and one or two 16 year old schoolgirls who went to Syria likewise, yet some people want to give them the vote. You can't be of an age to make adult decisions like who governs the UK and yet so weak-minded you can be persuaded it's a good idea to blow yourself up in a foreign country.
Or, more to the point:
- Be held to a contract (in most cases) - Place a bet or even enter a betting shop - Buy a can of lager - Buy certain DVDs or computer games - Buy a cigarrete lighter refill - Enter into a monthly contract for a mobile phone
The idea that a 16-year old is not sufficiently responsible and aware to do all those, but is sufficiently responsbile and aware to vote, is plainly bonkers. If Labour think that 16- and 17-year olds are responsible adults, they should say so and propose to amend all of the above.
If anything, the age of majority should be rising.
Also, I think it's crackers that the school leaving age has gone up but some want to decrease the age at which people can vote (and there's a large overlap between those who approved the former and also want the latter).
Out of interest, what is the penalty for someone who leaves school at 16 and then drops out of college?
This seems one of the most bizarre and ridiculous law changes of recent years and is a blatantly political manipulation of the economic statistics regardless of the negative impact that it will have.
Thankfully it does not apply in Scotland, where adults can leave school if they so choose.
They most certainly are, in practice as well as in most international legal definitions:
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child defines child as "a human being below the age of 18 years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier".
The age of majority is always going to be a muddle if we think that we need the same age as a marker for all things. Once that idea is abandoned, it all gets much easier.
For good or ill, we have accepted the age of consent as being 16 but we have also accepted that under 18s remain vulnerable to exploitation, so teachers and those in a position of trust cannot have sex with their charges, you can't marry without parental consent until age 18 and any pornography featuring an under 18 is deemed to be child pornography (so you can have sex with a 16 year old but you can't photograph him or her naked).
Where does voting sit in all this? In truth, it's a pretty minor exercise of adult privileges. Is it more important to encourage young people into the habit of voting or to wait until they have reached the age where the law elsewhere deems them to be beyond the need (or help) of protection?
Personally, I would give 16 and 17 year olds the vote in one-off referenda because they're going to be living with the consequences longer than the rest of us. I'm less convinced for general elections, but really not too fussed either way.
Mr. Dair, no idea. Fortunately I'd left high school before that particularly nonsense was dreamt up (although I did have the delight of Key Skills. There were three [maths, English and IT, I think] and were nothing but a waste of time. I believe they were dropped a couple of years after coming in).
Edited extra bit: Miss Plato, ha, that's true.
I find the porn/prostitute argument a bit odd. It's legal to sell yourself for sex, but only to another professional on condition it's filmed/photographed. Seems peculiar to me.
Using your logic anyone able to put X on a ballot has longer - such as 3yrs old. Living with the consequences for the entire population requires maturity that 16yrs olds don't have and I didn't.
The age of majority is always going to be a muddle if we think that we need the same age as a marker for all things. Once that idea is abandoned, it all gets much easier.
For good or ill, we have accepted the age of consent as being 16 but we have also accepted that under 18s remain vulnerable to exploitation, so teachers and those in a position of trust cannot have sex with their charges, you can't marry without parental consent until age 18 and any pornography featuring an under 18 is deemed to be child pornography (so you can have sex with a 16 year old but you can't photograph him or her naked).
Where does voting sit in all this? In truth, it's a pretty minor exercise of adult privileges. Is it more important to encourage young people into the habit of voting or to wait until they have reached the age where the law elsewhere deems them to be beyond the need (or help) of protection?
Personally, I would give 16 and 17 year olds the vote in one-off referenda because they're going to be living with the consequences longer than the rest of us. I'm less convinced for general elections, but really not too fussed either way.
"There were three dolphins," remembers Lovatt. "Peter, Pamela and Sissy. Sissy was the biggest. Pushy, loud, she sort of ran the show. Pamela was very shy and fearful. And Peter was a young guy. He was sexually coming of age and a bit naughty."
"Peter liked to be with me," explains Lovatt. "He would rub himself on my knee, or my foot, or my hand. And at first I would put him downstairs with the girls," she says. But transporting Peter downstairs proved so disruptive to the lessons that, faced with his frequent arousals, it just seemed easier for Lovatt to relieve his urges herself manually.
They most certainly are, in practice as well as in most international legal definitions:
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child defines child as "a human being below the age of 18 years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier".
Personally, I would give 16 and 17 year olds the vote in one-off referenda because they're going to be living with the consequences longer than the rest of us.
All the more reason for them not to be given a vote. You should encourage them to develop by giving them freedom in areas where they won't have to live with the consequences for a long time, not those where they will.
Mr. Nabavi, point four is one I like. If you're too young for Fallout 4, you're too young to vote.
There is a great deal of irony to see those who would normally argue against the Nanny State trying to gerrymander individual behaviour also argue that adults who are 16 and 17 should be subject to just such ridiculous legislation.
Mr. Antifrank, "...because they're going to be living with the consequences longer than the rest of us."
By that line of argument you ought to give 14 year olds the vote as well.
No, because we've decided collectively that 14 year olds don't have the maturity to make decisions about things like who they sleep with or whether they should discontinue their education. 16 to 18 is an intermediate phase where we accept that they have some maturity but don't accept that they have full maturity. The question is whether voting should go with the first stage or the last stage.
Mr. Dair, I've always argued for the age to remain constant or increase.
If you think it's nanny state, you must advocate all living people getting the vote regardless of age. If it's just a question of where you draw the cut-off line, then you and I agree on the principle and simply disagree on the detail.
Using your logic anyone able to put X on a ballot has longer - such as 3yrs old. Living with the consequences for the entire population requires maturity that 16yrs olds don't have and I didn't.
Tricky, isn't it. One could argue that many 30 year olds are insufficiently mature to vote. How do you measure maturity anyway?
Or one could talk about intelligence rather than maturity. Should you need to pass an exam to vote? That would go down like a shit sandwich in most quarters.
In situations like this, I tend to look at the status quo. If it seems ok, or close enough, then I'd leave it well alone.
Finally, for all the support on here for lowering the age, let's not forget it was an utterly cynical change promoted by the SNP. They believed it was to their electoral advantage. Had the polls shown that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO, the change would never, in a million years, have seen the light of day.
Mr. Nabavi, point four is one I like. If you're too young for Fallout 4, you're too young to vote.
And is creating a small but growing number of individuals who will spend their lives on the Sex Offenders Register because they sext with their teenage crush.
But the Law in this area is never going to get fixed because it's virtually impossible for politicians to act rationally, especially in the UK given the nature of the press.
Using your logic anyone able to put X on a ballot has longer - such as 3yrs old. Living with the consequences for the entire population requires maturity that 16yrs olds don't have and I didn't.
Tricky, isn't it. One could argue that many 30 year olds are insufficiently mature to vote. How do you measure maturity anyway?
Or one could talk about intelligence rather than maturity. Should you need to pass an exam to vote? That would go down like a shit sandwich in most quarters.
In situations like this, I tend to look at the status quo. If it seems ok, or close enough, then I'd leave it well alone.
Finally, for all the support on here for lowering the age, let's not forget it was an utterly cynical change promoted by the SNP. They believed it was to their electoral advantage. Had the polls shown that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO, the change would never, in a million years, have seen the light of day.
Fifty years of immigration mapped: How Blair’s decision to open the borders to Eastern Europe changed the face of Britain
More than a third of Britain's foreign-born population are now from Europe, an official study published today shows This includes over half a million migrants born in Poland, 100,000 migrants from Lithuania and 80,000 from Romania Almost one in eight people in the UK were born abroad and the biggest 'ethnic minority' is now 'non British white' Previously Britain's migrant population was dominated by ethnic minorities from Commonwealth countries
Mr. Dair, I've always argued for the age to remain constant or increase.
If you think it's nanny state, you must advocate all living people getting the vote regardless of age. If it's just a question of where you draw the cut-off line, then you and I agree on the principle and simply disagree on the detail.
Most likely we do.
The best solution would be to throw the whole decision over all ages of consent/majority/contract/behaviour to technocrats and base it on some evidence based science. But the chances of that happening are probable as slim as Labour winning in 2020.
Finally, for all the support on here for lowering the age, let's not forget it was an utterly cynical change promoted by the SNP. They believed it was to their electoral advantage. Had the polls shown that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO, the change would never, in a million years, have seen the light of day.
All the polls DID show that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO and they remained fairly solidly NO until the last couple of months of the campaign.
Mr. Dair, I've always argued for the age to remain constant or increase.
If you think it's nanny state, you must advocate all living people getting the vote regardless of age. If it's just a question of where you draw the cut-off line, then you and I agree on the principle and simply disagree on the detail.
Most likely we do.
The best solution would be to throw the whole decision over all ages of consent/majority/contract/behaviour to technocrats and base it on some evidence based science. But the chances of that happening are probable as slim as Labour winning in 2020.
They may give an awkward answer, like there is no set age given people's different personalities, or that one sex can vote a year before the other!
Finally, for all the support on here for lowering the age, let's not forget it was an utterly cynical change promoted by the SNP. They believed it was to their electoral advantage. Had the polls shown that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO, the change would never, in a million years, have seen the light of day.
All the polls DID show that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO and they remained fairly solidly NO until the last couple of months of the campaign.
Not when it was first floated, and not even Salmond has the brass front to U-turn after facts came to light. Remember very little polling of youngsters had been done before the proposed rule change - why bother if they couldn't vote - so the changed was based on extrapolating the trend which showed the YES proportion increasing as age fell.
Mr. Dair, I've always argued for the age to remain constant or increase.
If you think it's nanny state, you must advocate all living people getting the vote regardless of age. If it's just a question of where you draw the cut-off line, then you and I agree on the principle and simply disagree on the detail.
Most likely we do.
The best solution would be to throw the whole decision over all ages of consent/majority/contract/behaviour to technocrats and base it on some evidence based science. But the chances of that happening are probable as slim as Labour winning in 2020.
They may give an awkward answer, like there is no set age given people's different personalities, or that one sex can vote a year before the other!
My feeling is that Politicians make terrible decisions on most things, what they would be much better doing is agreeing broad principles and then handing the policy over to suitably qualified technocrats. Effectively what has happened with the Bank of England.
Things like equality of race/gender/orientation would seem reasonable parts of the broad principles while the details over age itself falls to the technocrats.
I've never really looked into it but I do wonder to what degree the increasing infantilisation of the population through legislation has led to the longer term immaturity which appears to exist in society.
Fifty years of immigration mapped: How Blair’s decision to open the borders to Eastern Europe changed the face of Britain
That chart is odd, and extremely misleading, because the bars represent different time periods. It compares the 20 years 1981-2000 with the six years 2001-2006 and the five years 2007-2011. That actually has the effect of downplaying the massive increase during the Blair years of all the four categories shown other than Caribbean.
Mr. Nabavi, point four is one I like. If you're too young for Fallout 4, you're too young to vote.
And is creating a small but growing number of individuals who will spend their lives on the Sex Offenders Register because they sext with their teenage crush.
But the Law in this area is never going to get fixed because it's virtually impossible for politicians to act rationally, especially in the UK given the nature of the press.
Yes. So in order to send an explicit picture to someone else the age of consent is 18.
No politician will ever lower it.
Even when we did bring online distribution of porn into line with physical distribution it turned out we were tying it to a strange system.
Having a read of the renovation document on the Parliament website. Given the age of austerity, they should opt for the full decant and get it over and done with as cheaply and quickly as possible. No faffing around.
Fifty years of immigration mapped: How Blair’s decision to open the borders to Eastern Europe changed the face of Britain
That chart is odd, and extremely misleading, because the bars represent different time periods. It compares the 20 years 1981-2000 with the six years 2001-2006 and the five years 2007-2011. That actually has the effect of downplaying the massive increase during the Blair years of all the four categories shown other than Caribbean.
It also reads like, of all the immigrants currently here, what make up are they - when a disproportionate number of immigrants in later years have returned home.
I've never really looked into it but I do wonder to what degree the increasing infantilisation of the population through legislation has led to the longer term immaturity which appears to exist in society.
Probably absolutely minor when compared to the media.
Not when it was first floated, and not even Salmond has the brass front to U-turn after facts came to light. Remember very little polling of youngsters had been done before the proposed rule change - why bother if they couldn't vote - so the changed was based on extrapolating the trend which showed the YES proportion increasing as age fell.
Having a read of the renovation document on the Parliament website. Given the age of austerity, they should opt for the full decant and get it over and done with as cheaply and quickly as possible. No faffing around.
It's not just the cost as you say. Can you imagine works for 32 years?
Not when it was first floated, and not even Salmond has the brass front to U-turn after facts came to light. Remember very little polling of youngsters had been done before the proposed rule change - why bother if they couldn't vote - so the changed was based on extrapolating the trend which showed the YES proportion increasing as age fell.
Can you point me to these polls?
The ones I'm claiming don't exist? Er ... no, sorry, no can do.
I've never really looked into it but I do wonder to what degree the increasing infantilisation of the population through legislation has led to the longer term immaturity which appears to exist in society.
Probably absolutely minor when compared to the media.
You're probably right.
Certainly the restrictions on things like alcohol, entertainment ratings and tobacco are effectively meaningless.
It does seem utterly bizarre that, in English law, a 16-year old can be a company director (and therefore, presumably, sign any number or value of binding contracts on behalf of the company), but not sign a mobile phone contract in a personal capacity.
So here's a question for the PB lawyers: does a 16-year old company director who signs a company purchase order for alcoholic beverages to be served at the company Christmas Party commit an offence, and does it depend on whether she'll be partaking? For that matter, does the supplier commit an offence by fulfilling the order?
Not when it was first floated, and not even Salmond has the brass front to U-turn after facts came to light. Remember very little polling of youngsters had been done before the proposed rule change - why bother if they couldn't vote - so the changed was based on extrapolating the trend which showed the YES proportion increasing as age fell.
Can you point me to these polls?
The ones I'm claiming don't exist? Er ... no, sorry, no can do.
No, the ones on which you claim that the SNP cynically based an election strategy (that would have affected the vote by a fraction either way) by extrapolating 'trends'. But since you mention it, you said 'very little' polling, not non-existent.
I've just had a look up on the increase in School Leaving Age which is only England, not even England and Wales.
It is a truly moronic piece of legislation.
In England, your leaving age depends on when you were born. You can leave school on the last Friday in June as long as you’ll be 16 by the end of that year’s summer holidays.
You must stay in some form of education or training until your 18th birthday if you were born on or after 1 September 1997.
Your options are:
full-time education - eg at a school or college an apprenticeship or traineeship part-time education or training - as well as being employed, self-employed or volunteering for 20 hours or more a week
There is no Full Time work exemption. Every single person I grew up with who went into the trades worked full time before gaining a formal apprenticeship.
Just emphasises that the "apprenticeships" government today loves to champion are nothing like the actual, real, coherent, effective, meaningful Apprenticeship most people think of when they hear the term.
I've never really looked into it but I do wonder to what degree the increasing infantilisation of the population through legislation has led to the longer term immaturity which appears to exist in society.
Probably absolutely minor when compared to the media.
You're probably right.
Certainly the restrictions on things like alcohol, entertainment ratings and tobacco are effectively meaningless.
The youth of today, eh?
Drink less than their parents do now, commit less crime than their parents did at their age.
A propos of nothing in particular, if Liz Kendall wins the Labour leadership contest, will the left of the Labour party flake off to the Greens?
What will the Blairites do if Andy Burnham wins? Sulk, snipe or walk away from the Labour party?
A resurgence of the yellow peril, perhaps? Assuming Farron is elected leader, which Labour leader would benefit him the most? Would Kendall leave the parties running in the same policy space?
The question is, just who is the frontrunner in the Labour leadership race? According to the bookmakers, it’s Andy Burnham. But increasingly, it’s Yvette Cooper who is favourite to win in Labour circles.
@bbclaurak: Break out the ouzo - reports aid to Greece will be extended til the end of the year..
What is the source of the reports?
In fact ''International Money Fund (IMF) boss Christine Lagarde has warned there is "no period of grace" for Greece over a debt repayment deadline. She said Greece would be in default on its loans from the IMF if it failed to make a €1.6bn (£1.1bn; $1.8bn) payment on 30 June.'' (BBC)
I'm about to find out. Fox paid $1 billion for the rights to all USGA events (US Open, Womens Open, Senior Open plus various amataur events) for 12 years, outbidding NBC and ESPN.
Fox has previously only covered a single unofficial money event on the PGA Tour, in 2011.
The coverage came on just over half an hour ago. Front man is Joe Buck, Fox's head NFL and baseball guy, partnered by Greg Norman.
The visual coverage is great - plenty of cameras - and the new commentators - all PGA pros - tend to do what rookie commentators do when there's not much to say - they start spouting stats. They will be fine when they understand that dead air is OK during golf coverage.
Thanks to DirecTV I have an additional 7 channels of coverage in addition to the network feed.
Does anybody else find it incredibly annoying when you load a website, say the Guardian, you click on a story only for an advert to push the story link down the page and thus you then click the wrong link? Maybe I just need superfast broadband, but it seems to be happening on lots of webpages.
Bloody hell! I'm not actually opposed to spending plenty of money restoring the building, and obviously without moving them out en masse it would take quite a long time (I think the longest I'd previously seen estimated was something like 20 years), but 32 years?
I guess I'm reluctantly more in favour of the 6 year absence £3.5bn option in that case (as much as I do not like London, I don't like the idea of just putting parliament somewhere else).
Does anybody else find it incredibly annoying when you load a website, say the Guardian, you click on a story only for an advert to push the story link down the page and thus you then click the wrong link? Maybe I just need superfast broadband, but it seems to be happening on lots of webpages.
Absolutely hate it. As with PB yesterday, when the comments either would not load or would not allow me to comment.
I've never really looked into it but I do wonder to what degree the increasing infantilisation of the population through legislation has led to the longer term immaturity which appears to exist in society.
Probably absolutely minor when compared to the media.
You're probably right.
Certainly the restrictions on things like alcohol, entertainment ratings and tobacco are effectively meaningless.
The youth of today, eh?
Drink less than their parents do now, commit less crime than their parents did at their age.
Shocking.
They do play violent videogames a lot more than people did 70 years ago though. I cannot think why.
Comments
If you're lucky, you might get two in a day.
Those who voted No 2 AV, will regret their decision after next week.
A higher inactivity figure can be symptomatic of greater levels of private pensions and independent means. It can also mean that greater numbers of people are in higher education like university, or it can mean there are more people on things like sickness or lone parent benefits.
It's a public course, and is one of the very few courses with no club house.
He's no leader - he's a *cause* bloke. Get him a job working for International Rescue.
One lady did mention in passing that the reason she hadn't voted Labour was because she didn't think they were careful enough with money, and one said they were crap on immigration. But the overwhelming consensus among those people was that Labour didn't seem to stand for anything, and that all the candidates just seemed to be throwing out all the usual vague politics-talk. Is moving closer to the supposed "centre-ground" as Kendall wants going to solve that problem?
On reflection, I still think last night's debate was pretty uninspiring. What is equally worrying is the apparent poor education of a lot of the audience who take part in these events. Some struggle to put a coherent sentence together.
Yvette Cooper irritates me to death. There was a fleeting glimpse of her 'barracking' the PM at PMQs last week. I notice she is bragging that she will give the PM an even bigger 'woman' problem (which, in my view he doesn't have). So much for equality when women think they can be as rude as they like to men but throw their toys out of the pram when men are perceived to be rude to them. She is just a female version of her husband.
Really?
The country had an extremely lucky escape on May 7th. Let's hope our luck lasts.
It's strange that a 17 year old suicide bomber was described as 'vulnerable' and one or two 16 year old schoolgirls who went to Syria likewise, yet some people want to give them the vote. You can't be of an age to make adult decisions like who governs the UK and yet so weak-minded you can be persuaded it's a good idea to blow yourself up in a foreign country.
Did you hear about the Irish kamikaze pilot? 15 successful missions!
Duncan yawned and scratched at a spot on his temple. “According to my reckoning, you shall be punished thusly. Hanged twice, for major theft and unlawfully slaying a beast in the Comte’s forest. Lashed… let me see… four hundred and twenty-seven times for adultery, fornication and minor theft. Lastly, imprisoned for tax evasion and rigging boxing matches for,” the lieutenant paused and totted up the list of offences, “Ninety-six years.”
Roger the Goat nodded gravely, and asked, “In what order?”
[From Bane of Souls, which is mostly serious but does have the odd lighter moment].
If anything, the age of majority should be rising.
Also, I think it's crackers that the school leaving age has gone up but some want to decrease the age at which people can vote (and there's a large overlap between those who approved the former and also want the latter).
- Be held to a contract (in most cases)
- Place a bet or even enter a betting shop
- Buy a can of lager
- Buy certain DVDs or computer games
- Buy a cigarrete lighter refill
- Enter into a monthly contract for a mobile phone
The idea that a 16-year old is not sufficiently responsible and aware to do all those, but is sufficiently responsbile and aware to vote, is plainly bonkers. If Labour think that 16- and 17-year olds are responsible adults, they should say so and propose to amend all of the above.
This seems one of the most bizarre and ridiculous law changes of recent years and is a blatantly political manipulation of the economic statistics regardless of the negative impact that it will have.
Thankfully it does not apply in Scotland, where adults can leave school if they so choose.
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child defines child as "a human being below the age of 18 years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child
Scotland and a couple of other minor jurisdictions are exceptions to this generally-accepted definition.
For good or ill, we have accepted the age of consent as being 16 but we have also accepted that under 18s remain vulnerable to exploitation, so teachers and those in a position of trust cannot have sex with their charges, you can't marry without parental consent until age 18 and any pornography featuring an under 18 is deemed to be child pornography (so you can have sex with a 16 year old but you can't photograph him or her naked).
Where does voting sit in all this? In truth, it's a pretty minor exercise of adult privileges. Is it more important to encourage young people into the habit of voting or to wait until they have reached the age where the law elsewhere deems them to be beyond the need (or help) of protection?
Personally, I would give 16 and 17 year olds the vote in one-off referenda because they're going to be living with the consequences longer than the rest of us. I'm less convinced for general elections, but really not too fussed either way.
Edited extra bit: Miss Plato, ha, that's true.
I find the porn/prostitute argument a bit odd. It's legal to sell yourself for sex, but only to another professional on condition it's filmed/photographed. Seems peculiar to me.
Using your logic anyone able to put X on a ballot has longer - such as 3yrs old. Living with the consequences for the entire population requires maturity that 16yrs olds don't have and I didn't.
By that line of argument you ought to give 14 year olds the vote as well.
You do realise you are now on the side of those who believe the United Kingdom is an user of child soldiers?
For me it's a fairly minor point.
If you think it's nanny state, you must advocate all living people getting the vote regardless of age. If it's just a question of where you draw the cut-off line, then you and I agree on the principle and simply disagree on the detail.
Or one could talk about intelligence rather than maturity. Should you need to pass an exam to vote? That would go down like a shit sandwich in most quarters.
In situations like this, I tend to look at the status quo. If it seems ok, or close enough, then I'd leave it well alone.
Finally, for all the support on here for lowering the age, let's not forget it was an utterly cynical change promoted by the SNP. They believed it was to their electoral advantage. Had the polls shown that a majority of 16/17 year olds would vote NO, the change would never, in a million years, have seen the light of day.
But the Law in this area is never going to get fixed because it's virtually impossible for politicians to act rationally, especially in the UK given the nature of the press.
The best solution would be to throw the whole decision over all ages of consent/majority/contract/behaviour to technocrats and base it on some evidence based science. But the chances of that happening are probable as slim as Labour winning in 2020.
Things like equality of race/gender/orientation would seem reasonable parts of the broad principles while the details over age itself falls to the technocrats.
I've never really looked into it but I do wonder to what degree the increasing infantilisation of the population through legislation has led to the longer term immaturity which appears to exist in society.
No politician will ever lower it.
Even when we did bring online distribution of porn into line with physical distribution it turned out we were tying it to a strange system.
Certainly the restrictions on things like alcohol, entertainment ratings and tobacco are effectively meaningless.
What will the Blairites do if Andy Burnham wins? Sulk, snipe or walk away from the Labour party?
So here's a question for the PB lawyers: does a 16-year old company director who signs a company purchase order for alcoholic beverages to be served at the company Christmas Party commit an offence, and does it depend on whether she'll be partaking? For that matter, does the supplier commit an offence by fulfilling the order?
It is a truly moronic piece of legislation.
In England, your leaving age depends on when you were born. You can leave school on the last Friday in June as long as you’ll be 16 by the end of that year’s summer holidays.
You must stay in some form of education or training until your 18th birthday if you were born on or after 1 September 1997.
Your options are:
full-time education - eg at a school or college
an apprenticeship or traineeship
part-time education or training - as well as being employed, self-employed or volunteering for 20 hours or more a week
There is no Full Time work exemption. Every single person I grew up with who went into the trades worked full time before gaining a formal apprenticeship.
Just emphasises that the "apprenticeships" government today loves to champion are nothing like the actual, real, coherent, effective, meaningful Apprenticeship most people think of when they hear the term.
Drink less than their parents do now, commit less crime than their parents did at their age.
Shocking.
http://www.thelocal.dk/20150618/live-denmark-goes-to-the-polls
"The blue bloc is set to get 50.4 percent of the vote and 88 mandates, and the red bloc 49.5 percent and 87 mandates."
She said Greece would be in default on its loans from the IMF if it failed to make a €1.6bn (£1.1bn; $1.8bn) payment on 30 June.''
(BBC)
I'm about to find out. Fox paid $1 billion for the rights to all USGA events (US Open, Womens Open, Senior Open plus various amataur events) for 12 years, outbidding NBC and ESPN.
Fox has previously only covered a single unofficial money event on the PGA Tour, in 2011.
The coverage came on just over half an hour ago. Front man is Joe Buck, Fox's head NFL and baseball guy, partnered by Greg Norman.
The visual coverage is great - plenty of cameras - and the new commentators - all PGA pros - tend to do what rookie commentators do when there's not much to say - they start spouting stats. They will be fine when they understand that dead air is OK during golf coverage.
Thanks to DirecTV I have an additional 7 channels of coverage in addition to the network feed.
All until 11pm this evening.
Won't know if there is an extension then until Maria Callas sings.
Merkel Only Knows Of Existing Offer From Greek Creditors; Doesn't Know Of Media Reports - BBG $EURUSD $MACRO
Does anybody else find it incredibly annoying when you load a website, say the Guardian, you click on a story only for an advert to push the story link down the page and thus you then click the wrong link? Maybe I just need superfast broadband, but it seems to be happening on lots of webpages.
Of course there's always Nana Mouskouri, who is still extant, I am led to believe..
Major restoration of the Houses of Parliament without moving MPs and peers out would cost £5.7bn and take 32 years, a report says.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33184160
Bloody hell! I'm not actually opposed to spending plenty of money restoring the building, and obviously without moving them out en masse it would take quite a long time (I think the longest I'd previously seen estimated was something like 20 years), but 32 years?
I guess I'm reluctantly more in favour of the 6 year absence £3.5bn option in that case (as much as I do not like London, I don't like the idea of just putting parliament somewhere else).