politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Farage’s “unresignation” makes him and his party look stupi
Comments
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Same here. My final prediction was Con 282, Lab 261, SNP 50, UKIP 4, Lib Dem 28, Green 1.antifrank said:
I've been wrong about embarrassing numbers of things this time around - I'm going to be putting up a post in the next couple of days when I've got through listing them all. The only comfort that I have is that I am in good company.Richard_Nabavi said:
There's no dishonour in being wrong. What is to be avoided in political betting is not to admit the possibility that you might be wrong. It can be very bad for your wallet to make that mistake.antifrank said:This election made fools of most of us. It's a little unfair to pick on the kippers when there's scarcely a poster on pb who could not be made to blush about one prediction or another.
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UKIP are the only challengers to Labour in the North eh?nigel4england said:
For a fledgling party it's all about winning vote share, which will be transformed into seats at a later date.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is all about winning seats.nigel4england said:
How is going from 3% to 13% not a success?TheScreamingEagles said:From the UKIP statement
The NEC also concluded that UKIP’s general election campaign had been a great success.
How the heck is a net loss of one MP a great success?
You had two incumbents, and Reckless, to quote someone here, was up against the inept Kelly Tolhurst
How did he manage to lose that.
How do you feel about UKIP being the only challengers to Labour in the North?
I nearly voted Tory for the first time, if I lived in a marginal I probably would have done, however arrogant egotistical twats like you are always there to remind me not to.
If you ignore all those seats the Tories won, or are in second place to Labour.
And I love it when you get abusive, means you Kippers have lost the argument.0 -
It will be interesting to see who is appointed Minister of State for Europe. Cameron would surely be running a risk if he reappointed the arch-Europhile David Lidlington MP to the post.0
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Carswell probably thought he'd be in opposition after the GE anyway. So he might as well jump ship to UKIP, and with Farage being ballot-box poison, he'd be a shoo-in as leader of half a dozen UKIP MPs after the GE.antifrank said:
I've been wrong about embarrassing numbers of things this time around - I'm going to be putting up a post in the next couple of days when I've got through listing them all. The only comfort that I have is that I am in good company.Richard_Nabavi said:
There's no dishonour in being wrong. What is to be avoided in political betting is not to admit the possibility that you might be wrong. It can be very bad for your wallet to make that mistake.antifrank said:This election made fools of most of us. It's a little unfair to pick on the kippers when there's scarcely a poster on pb who could not be made to blush about one prediction or another.
So that's not gone wrong, or anything.
Has anyone ever re-defected?0 -
Churchill did.Bond_James_Bond said:
Carswell probably thought he'd be in opposition after the GE anyway. So he might as well jump ship to UKIP, and with Farage being ballot-box poison, he'd be a shoo-in as leader of half a dozen UKIP MPs after the GE.antifrank said:
I've been wrong about embarrassing numbers of things this time around - I'm going to be putting up a post in the next couple of days when I've got through listing them all. The only comfort that I have is that I am in good company.Richard_Nabavi said:
There's no dishonour in being wrong. What is to be avoided in political betting is not to admit the possibility that you might be wrong. It can be very bad for your wallet to make that mistake.antifrank said:This election made fools of most of us. It's a little unfair to pick on the kippers when there's scarcely a poster on pb who could not be made to blush about one prediction or another.
So that's not gone wrong, or anything.
Has anyone ever re-defected?0 -
@JakeReesMogg: I believe it was Mr Marx who opined that history had a habit of repeating itself. The first time as tragedy, the second time as #Farage.0
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Farage is by far the best asset UKIP has, so the best long-term decision for them even if short-term embarrassment. He will now aim to play a key role in the EU Out campaign and, I imagine, try and emulate Salmond's success in winning over Yes voting Scottish Labour voters with Out voting Tory voters, especially if Cameron leads the In campaign0
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@goddersbloom: You put your resignation in,
Your resignation out,
In out in out
Then you shake it all about,0 -
MikeK - have sent you a vanilla message..MikeK said:
Robin Brant made up news during the election campaign and he's still making it up.TGOHF said:Richard_Nabavi said:
No prizes for guessing who that 'very senior figure' is.TGOHF said:Robin Brant @robindbrant 42s42 seconds ago
very senior @UKIP fig tells bbc @Nigel_Farage decision to stay 'was a mistake', which would undermine his record for straight talking.
Return ticket to Clacton ?
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@David_Cameron: Penny Mordaunt will become Armed Forces Minister at Ministry of Defence - first woman in this role0
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Office Lefties wailing and moaning now about Farage staying on the scene after his resignation apparently was one of the few "silver clouds" on Friday.
I did point out it will probably do UKIP no favours.
I've got mixed views now about the party. I had them down as the mob who would deny Dave a second term. But clearly they took vast swathes of Labour voters last week and gave him a majority. I fear Labour would have taken a number of Tory marginals if UKIP hadn't swallowed up thousands of their voters in some seats.
Maybe we are better off with him....0 -
I think I've lost count of the number of times that disaster for UKIP and "Peak UKIP" has been predicted on this website.HYUFD said:Farage is by far the best asset UKIP has, so the best long-term decision for them even if short-term embarrassment. He will now aim to play a key role in the EU Out campaign and, I imagine, try and emulate Salmond's success in winning over Yes voting Scottish Labour voters with Out voting Tory voters, especially if Cameron leads the In campaign
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The only disadvantage for Ukip is that it might prevent any of the other Kippers getting any exposure. Some may say that's an advantage but I would disagree.
But then again, the media will try to ignore them anyway - and that's probably the most effective way to slow them down.0 -
I don't think he ever wanted to be leader. He ruled himself out yesterday for a start. What he wanted was the freedom to vote conscientiously, which given the slim majority of the government I'm sure a lot of Tory backbenchers won't get the chance to do.Bond_James_Bond said:
Carswell probably thought he'd be in opposition after the GE anyway. So he might as well jump ship to UKIP, and with Farage being ballot-box poison, he'd be a shoo-in as leader of half a dozen UKIP MPs after the GE.antifrank said:
I've been wrong about embarrassing numbers of things this time around - I'm going to be putting up a post in the next couple of days when I've got through listing them all. The only comfort that I have is that I am in good company.Richard_Nabavi said:
There's no dishonour in being wrong. What is to be avoided in political betting is not to admit the possibility that you might be wrong. It can be very bad for your wallet to make that mistake.antifrank said:This election made fools of most of us. It's a little unfair to pick on the kippers when there's scarcely a poster on pb who could not be made to blush about one prediction or another.
So that's not gone wrong, or anything.
Has anyone ever re-defected?
Yes he must have expected some company, but he'll get to shape party policy in UKIP and be a more prominent figure in the fight against the EU, so it's not all bad for him.0 -
Conservatives should be very grateful for the damage UKIP did to the Lib Dems and Labour.Bob__Sykes said:Office Lefties wailing and moaning now about Farage staying on the scene after his resignation apparently was one of the few "silver clouds" on Friday.
I did point out it will probably do UKIP no favours.
I've got mixed views now about the party. I had them down as the mob who would deny Dave a second term. But clearly they took vast swathes of Labour voters last week and gave him a majority. I fear Labour would have taken a number of Tory marginals if UKIP hadn't swallowed up thousands of their voters in some seats.
Maybe we are better off with him....0 -
These are the proposed new 600 boundaries.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2012/oct/17/proposed-constituency-boundary-changes-mapped-compare-old-against-new
Had a quick look in anticipation of "city" seats growing to encompass more rural areas and being better for tories presumably. Not that many stick out, although Stoke looks much more favourable. Needs hours spent on it probably!
Surprising number of constituencies untouched. Yorkshire and around Manchester completely carved up (beyond easy analysis?), as is much of London. Most rural tory safe seats just get safer.
Would these not have to be adjusted with latest electoral roll data?0 -
I don't much mind who costs Labour seats, myself, although I couldn't bring myself to vote UKIP.Bob__Sykes said:Office Lefties wailing and moaning now about Farage staying on the scene after his resignation apparently was one of the few "silver clouds" on Friday.
I did point out it will probably do UKIP no favours.
I've got mixed views now about the party. I had them down as the mob who would deny Dave a second term. But clearly they took vast swathes of Labour voters last week and gave him a majority. I fear Labour would have taken a number of Tory marginals if UKIP hadn't swallowed up thousands of their voters in some seats.
Maybe we are better off with him....
UKIP will lose the referendum so the question is what do they then do.
If Farage falls under a bus, it seems like they'll have to disband.0 -
SNP Election facts
36 of the SNP's 56 seats were won with more than 50% of the vote
Biggest win - Dundee East 61.91% (I got on this at 2/5)
Smallest vote share - Edinburgh South 33.79%
Smallest vote share to win a seat - Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk 36.6% (They lost Orkeny & Shetland and Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale with a higher percentage of the vote.
The SNP got less than 40% in only 5 seats.0 -
You never know, Nigel's reappearance might generate a little more publicity for Ukip, and no publicity is bad publicity. Unlike with Ed.
But Antifrank is right, he looks like he needs a long rest.0 -
They helped the Tories win the election by reducing Labour support in many critical constituencies so you probably should take them seriously. And of course more people took them seriously than the Lib Dems and SNP combined.GIN1138 said:Did anybody take UKIP seriously before this debacle? I mean really?
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Judging by the entirely phlegmatic reaction to the final opinion polls on PB last week, we can say with some confidence that there would have been nothing along similar lines if Labour had somehow won. No mention of economic collapse, immigration tidal waves, magic money trees, sweeties, stupid voters, the dictatorship of the Scots, market wipe-out, pound collapse, fleeing investors and so on; no siree. Now, time to feed my flying pigs.Sean_F said:FPT Casino Royale.
Read the article by Libby Purves in today's Times. She records all the comments she's received in her twitter account, from various luminaries, recording their horror, astonishment, and despair at the Conservatives' victory. Apparently, we now live in Mordor; immigrants will be deported; the NHS will be dismantled, and the poor will starve.
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How does one send a vanilla message?TGOHF said:
MikeK - have sent you a vanilla message..MikeK said:
Robin Brant made up news during the election campaign and he's still making it up.TGOHF said:Richard_Nabavi said:
No prizes for guessing who that 'very senior figure' is.TGOHF said:Robin Brant @robindbrant 42s42 seconds ago
very senior @UKIP fig tells bbc @Nigel_Farage decision to stay 'was a mistake', which would undermine his record for straight talking.
Return ticket to Clacton ?
You can send me details via #rcs1000 if you like.
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So all those male MPs who resign saying they "want to spend more time with their family" are basically just lying?
I fully expect Balls and Cable to get back into politics as soon as. They have enormous egos, you only have to look at Alex Salmond, he looks as mad as hell that he has to take a back seat.
I suppose the lesson here is to let the dust settle before resigning.
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SeanF Indeed, but the EU referendum is obviously potentially as good a marketing event for UKIP as the Scottish independence referendum was for the SNP, like the SNP their best result would probably be a reasonably close defeat, a big In vote would obviously set back their campaign, an Out vote would effectively mean they had no reason to exist0
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I am confused by that - what happens to Cambridge - untouched or disappears completely ?JonCisBack said:These are the proposed new 600 boundaries.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2012/oct/17/proposed-constituency-boundary-changes-mapped-compare-old-against-new
Had a quick look in anticipation of "city" seats growing to encompass more rural areas and being better for tories presumably. Not that many stick out, although Stoke looks much more favourable. Needs hours spent on it probably!
Surprising number of constituencies untouched. Yorkshire and around Manchester completely carved up (beyond easy analysis?), as is much of London. Most rural tory safe seats just get safer.
Would these not have to be adjusted with latest electoral roll data?0 -
i just heard the same from over my shoulder in my London office. I expect there's a lot of people outside my office and outside my City that will be quietly delighted he's back.Bob__Sykes said:Office Lefties wailing and moaning now about Farage staying on the scene after his resignation apparently was one of the few "silver clouds" on Friday.
I did point out it will probably do UKIP no favours.
I've got mixed views now about the party. I had them down as the mob who would deny Dave a second term. But clearly they took vast swathes of Labour voters last week and gave him a majority. I fear Labour would have taken a number of Tory marginals if UKIP hadn't swallowed up thousands of their voters in some seats.
Maybe we are better off with him....
HYUFD said it well that the short term embarrassment was worth the long term gain. He is a headache for both Labour and the Tories, and while he eats away at Labour votes in the North, Farage will always be able to draw on disaffected Tories on the right if Cameron takes the country down the 'wrong' path and the PM would have rather he had gone away.0 -
Not at all, i just don't like egotistical people. How did the Tories do in the Labour heartlands?TheScreamingEagles said:
UKIP are the only challengers to Labour in the North eh?nigel4england said:
For a fledgling party it's all about winning vote share, which will be transformed into seats at a later date.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is all about winning seats.nigel4england said:
How is going from 3% to 13% not a success?TheScreamingEagles said:From the UKIP statement
The NEC also concluded that UKIP’s general election campaign had been a great success.
How the heck is a net loss of one MP a great success?
You had two incumbents, and Reckless, to quote someone here, was up against the inept Kelly Tolhurst
How did he manage to lose that.
How do you feel about UKIP being the only challengers to Labour in the North?
I nearly voted Tory for the first time, if I lived in a marginal I probably would have done, however arrogant egotistical twats like you are always there to remind me not to.
If you ignore all those seats the Tories won, or are in second place to Labour.
And I love it when you get abusive, means you Kippers have lost the argument.0 -
Sorry but you have lost all credibility. It is clear now that your attacks on Reckless as a TPD were entirely due to your inability to cope with the fact that you recognised many of his untrustworthy characteristics in yourself. TSE should perhaps stand for Treacherous Scheming Europhile.TheScreamingEagles said:
I see you've not taken the Farage news well, try not to be so grumpy.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting. For a man who has always claimed to be a Eurosceptic. It is interesting to now see your true colours revealed. You really are a disgraceful little man.TheScreamingEagles said:Farage is damaging the Out movement.
Bravo I say.
I'm sceptical about some aspects of the EU, and can see some circumstances in me voting to withdraw from the EU, but, the way Farage and some Kippers make the argument for withdrawal is repugnant.0 -
https://twitter.com/adam_r_ward/status/597735602063351810nigel4england said:
Not at all, i just don't like egotistical people. How did the Tories do in the Labour heartlands?TheScreamingEagles said:
UKIP are the only challengers to Labour in the North eh?nigel4england said:
For a fledgling party it's all about winning vote share, which will be transformed into seats at a later date.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is all about winning seats.nigel4england said:
How is going from 3% to 13% not a success?TheScreamingEagles said:From the UKIP statement
The NEC also concluded that UKIP’s general election campaign had been a great success.
How the heck is a net loss of one MP a great success?
You had two incumbents, and Reckless, to quote someone here, was up against the inept Kelly Tolhurst
How did he manage to lose that.
How do you feel about UKIP being the only challengers to Labour in the North?
I nearly voted Tory for the first time, if I lived in a marginal I probably would have done, however arrogant egotistical twats like you are always there to remind me not to.
If you ignore all those seats the Tories won, or are in second place to Labour.
And I love it when you get abusive, means you Kippers have lost the argument.
Not too badly.0 -
@PickardJE: David Miliband speaks. Translation: "I TOLD YOU SO I TOLD YOU SO I TOLD YOU..."0
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I hope you're not driving, or operating any heavy machinery in the next few hours.Richard_Tyndall said:
Sorry but you have lost all credibility. It is clear now that your attacks on Reckless as a TPD were entirely due to your inability to cope with the fact that you recognised many of his untrustworthy characteristics in yourself. TSE should perhaps stand for Treacherous Scheming Europhile.TheScreamingEagles said:
I see you've not taken the Farage news well, try not to be so grumpy.Richard_Tyndall said:
Interesting. For a man who has always claimed to be a Eurosceptic. It is interesting to now see your true colours revealed. You really are a disgraceful little man.TheScreamingEagles said:Farage is damaging the Out movement.
Bravo I say.
I'm sceptical about some aspects of the EU, and can see some circumstances in me voting to withdraw from the EU, but, the way Farage and some Kippers make the argument for withdrawal is repugnant.0 -
@BBCBreaking: BBC exclusive: David Miliband criticises brother's leadership of Labour but praises "courage" http://t.co/c84vAZ4mhj http://t.co/eCOdNF2Lcp0
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Revenge of the elder brother.0
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James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers 17s17 seconds ago
David Miliband on his brother's election campaign: 'There's no point in blaming the electorate...they didn't want what was being offered'0 -
Another Comment is Free gem:
"I’ll always be a Milifan. Ed was the best prime minister we never had...
...The rightwing smear against Ed Miliband angered me. But his bravery and integrity in the face of it was an inspiration"
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/milifan-prime-minister-ed-miliband0 -
I am afraid that having been involved with UKIP and the wider Eurosceptic movement since before the party actually existed I can only look at all the dozens of talented people who were once part of the team and wanted nothing but to serve the aims of leaving the EU but were driven from the party because of Farage's need to have total control. These people - including many who were original founders and members of the party - have not abandoned the Eurosceptic movement but they will never work with UKIP as long as Farage is in charge. This is why I was so keen to see him lose and step down even whilst wanting UKIP itself to succeed. I thought that on the face of it that had been achieved. Unfortunately Farage is too arrogant to allow that to happen.MikeK said:
I disagree, OGH is just sour mouthed that no one in the L/Dems wants little Nicky back.Richard_Tyndall said:I don't often agree with you about UKIP Mike but in this case you are absolutely right. Farage was a huge asset for UKIP whilst it was growing a few years ago. Now he gas become a liability and needs to step aside.
Very disappointing.
The vast majority of kippers want him to stay as he still has much to give UKIP in the way of leadership. True UKIP needs more leaders and they will have them in time. It's also true that no one is indispensable, but to say that farage isn't still an asset is just plain sour grapes.0 -
Churchill...Bond_James_Bond said:
Carswell probably thought he'd be in opposition after the GE anyway. So he might as well jump ship to UKIP, and with Farage being ballot-box poison, he'd be a shoo-in as leader of half a dozen UKIP MPs after the GE.antifrank said:
I've been wrong about embarrassing numbers of things this time around - I'm going to be putting up a post in the next couple of days when I've got through listing them all. The only comfort that I have is that I am in good company.Richard_Nabavi said:
There's no dishonour in being wrong. What is to be avoided in political betting is not to admit the possibility that you might be wrong. It can be very bad for your wallet to make that mistake.antifrank said:This election made fools of most of us. It's a little unfair to pick on the kippers when there's scarcely a poster on pb who could not be made to blush about one prediction or another.
So that's not gone wrong, or anything.
Has anyone ever re-defected?0 -
Oh, naff off David. If you'd acted like a grown up after you lost I might care what you think.0
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I just don't think that matters to the electorate. She comes across as reasonable and articulate something that Miliband lacked. What a breathe of fresh air compared to a lot of morons who I have seen commenting.Bond_James_Bond said:
Has she ever run a business, had a real job, created a real job? Has she ever been a net taxpayer?Nemtynakht said:
This is a massive problem for Labour. The absolute crap I have seen on my Facebook in the last few days has been appalling. The gullibility of those who now think the NHS will be privatised is breathtaking, as Cameron stood on increased funding, for a service that is extremely important to middle England. It's a none issue really. Liz Kendall hit it on the head when she said what is important is what works. A little bit more work in the NHS by private companies will be tolerated if it works.Sean_F said:FPT Casino Royale.
Read the article by Libby Purves in today's Times. She records all the comments she's received in her twitter account, from various luminaries, recording their horror, astonishment, and despair at the Conservatives' victory. Apparently, we now live in Mordor; immigrants will be deported; the NHS will be dismantled, and the poor will starve.
I think she would be a massive risk for Cameron as he does seem condescending toward women.
People who are senior medical professionals saying the NHS is going to be privatised.
Otherwise intelligent people who cannot perceive that the massive increase in recorded users of food banks is down to the massive expansion of food banks allied to one charity, and the fact the last government allowed job centres to refer clients to them which Labour would not. How could this really be an accurate measure of poverty.
The problem is that they just want to believe it so if someone says it, it must be true. I grew up in the north and did my time in the public sector before retraining. The influence of uncorrected union propaganda I found astonishing, but more so I was astonished at the religious fervour attached to the Labour party.0 -
Wouldn't it be funny if Ed did unresign? All those Labourites who came out of the woodwork to say they always knew he was a dud would have some explaining to do.
At least Farage and Cleggy haven't suffered from that.0 -
That is exactly what Carswell said in his latest blog posting this morning.Life_ina_market_town said:Those who voted UKIP in the election will vote to leave in the referendum. The Out campaign must convince those who voted Tory to do so as well. Farage is not that man.
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Oh, for sure. There are certainly posters here who think people vote Labour because they're benefit scroungers, or hate Britain; vote UKIP because they want to conduct pogroms against Muslims; vote Lib Dem because they're very stupid, etc.SouthamObserver said:
Judging by the entirely phlegmatic reaction to the final opinion polls on PB last week, we can say with some confidence that there would have been nothing along similar lines if Labour had somehow won. No mention of economic collapse, immigration tidal waves, magic money trees, sweeties, stupid voters, the dictatorship of the Scots, market wipe-out, pound collapse, fleeing investors and so on; no siree. Now, time to feed my flying pigs.Sean_F said:FPT Casino Royale.
Read the article by Libby Purves in today's Times. She records all the comments she's received in her twitter account, from various luminaries, recording their horror, astonishment, and despair at the Conservatives' victory. Apparently, we now live in Mordor; immigrants will be deported; the NHS will be dismantled, and the poor will starve.
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I'm getting more and more convinced that the entirety of the Guardian is in fact SeanT taking the pee out of lefties. Also, can anyone write for comment is free?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Another Comment is Free gem:
"I’ll always be a Milifan. Ed was the best prime minister we never had...
...The rightwing smear against Ed Miliband angered me. But his bravery and integrity in the face of it was an inspiration"
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/milifan-prime-minister-ed-miliband0 -
They also took a lot of the Lib Dem vote in the south west. Whether this was a result of them being a protest vote or otherwise only time will tell.Richard_Tyndall said:
They helped the Tories win the election by reducing Labour support in many critical constituencies so you probably should take them seriously. And of course more people took them seriously than the Lib Dems and SNP combined.GIN1138 said:Did anybody take UKIP seriously before this debacle? I mean really?
I think,at least in the short term, Farage is important as a focussing point for them.0 -
We need to settle our bet about the Tory victory and moving right to achieve it. Have I won in your view?Richard_Tyndall said:
They helped the Tories win the election by reducing Labour support in many critical constituencies so you probably should take them seriously. And of course more people took them seriously than the Lib Dems and SNP combined.GIN1138 said:Did anybody take UKIP seriously before this debacle? I mean really?
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And it would have been those messages filling Libby's in box on Friday if Labour had won.Sean_F said:
Oh, for sure. There are certainly posters here who think people vote Labour because they're benefit scroungers, or hate Britain; vote UKIP because they want to conduct pogroms against Muslims; vote Lib Dem because they're very stupid, etc.SouthamObserver said:
Judging by the entirely phlegmatic reaction to the final opinion polls on PB last week, we can say with some confidence that there would have been nothing along similar lines if Labour had somehow won. No mention of economic collapse, immigration tidal waves, magic money trees, sweeties, stupid voters, the dictatorship of the Scots, market wipe-out, pound collapse, fleeing investors and so on; no siree. Now, time to feed my flying pigs.Sean_F said:FPT Casino Royale.
Read the article by Libby Purves in today's Times. She records all the comments she's received in her twitter account, from various luminaries, recording their horror, astonishment, and despair at the Conservatives' victory. Apparently, we now live in Mordor; immigrants will be deported; the NHS will be dismantled, and the poor will starve.
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So Farage staying is good for Ukip but bad for BOO ?Richard_Tyndall said:
That is exactly what Carswell said in his latest blog posting this morning.Life_ina_market_town said:Those who voted UKIP in the election will vote to leave in the referendum. The Out campaign must convince those who voted Tory to do so as well. Farage is not that man.
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If the lib dems refused to accept Cleggs resignation and he stayed on I would think 'good for them, who am I to even have an opinion in it?'CD13 said:Wouldn't it be funny if Ed did unresign? All those Labourites who came out of the woodwork to say they always knew he was a dud would have some explaining to do.
At least Farage and Cleggy haven't suffered from that.
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Prior to the UKIP defections my feeling had been they would win no seats but build up solid amounts of support, which if they worked hard and were lucky, could be transformed into seats next time.
That's basically where they still are, only with 1 MP at least, albeit that being fewer than they had hoped for. It's still an opportunity, just a harder one. I do think a new leader might be needed to push them over that line - much as I do like Farage, it feels like he needs a break and has taken them as far as he personally can.0 -
What companies have our PM and Chancellor ever run?Nemtynakht said:
I just don't think that matters to the electorate. She comes across as reasonable and articulate something that Miliband lacked. What a breathe of fresh air compared to a lot of morons who I have seen commenting.Bond_James_Bond said:
Has she ever run a business, had a real job, created a real job? Has she ever been a net taxpayer?Nemtynakht said:
This is a massive problem for Labour. The absolute crap I have seen on my Facebook in the last few days has been appalling. The gullibility of those who now think the NHS will be privatised is breathtaking, as Cameron stood on increased funding, for a service that is extremely important to middle England. It's a none issue really. Liz Kendall hit it on the head when she said what is important is what works. A little bit more work in the NHS by private companies will be tolerated if it works.Sean_F said:FPT Casino Royale.
Read the article by Libby Purves in today's Times. She records all the comments she's received in her twitter account, from various luminaries, recording their horror, astonishment, and despair at the Conservatives' victory. Apparently, we now live in Mordor; immigrants will be deported; the NHS will be dismantled, and the poor will starve.
I think she would be a massive risk for Cameron as he does seem condescending toward women.
People who are senior medical professionals saying the NHS is going to be privatised.
Otherwise intelligent people who cannot perceive that the massive increase in recorded users of food banks is down to the massive expansion of food banks allied to one charity, and the fact the last government allowed job centres to refer clients to them which Labour would not. How could this really be an accurate measure of poverty.
The problem is that they just want to believe it so if someone says it, it must be true. I grew up in the north and did my time in the public sector before retraining. The influence of uncorrected union propaganda I found astonishing, but more so I was astonished at the religious fervour attached to the Labour party.
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It is quite sad how the usual names on here proceed to cry peak UKIP at every possible opportunity. How many years have they been banging on and on about it...Sean_F said:
I think I've lost count of the number of times that disaster for UKIP and "Peak UKIP" has been predicted on this website.HYUFD said:Farage is by far the best asset UKIP has, so the best long-term decision for them even if short-term embarrassment. He will now aim to play a key role in the EU Out campaign and, I imagine, try and emulate Salmond's success in winning over Yes voting Scottish Labour voters with Out voting Tory voters, especially if Cameron leads the In campaign
Lets hope the Tory backbenchers don't start rioting when Dave attempts to pass a turd off as a golden nugget. There are several dozen backbenchers who truly despise Cameron.0 -
It seems like Farage just couldn't bear to hand over control. UKIP should have let him go. They have various sensible voices at the top who are much less divisive than Farage. Someone like Diane James could have given the Eurosceptic movement a leader who could have reached a lot more voters. Farage staying has just made it a lot harder for the Out Campaign to reach 51%.0
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Brom Exactly, while the likes of Carswell appeal mainly to ex Tories and Nuttall to ex Labour voters Farage can appeal equally well to the shires and working mens' clubs in Barnsley. He can continue to shore up UKIP's vote in the Labour heartlands while being ready to pounce and target Tory eurosceptics who vote Out in the EU referendum, especially if Cameron leads the In campaign0
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I think he's right. Farage play the role of a populist well but the problem is that he's ended up linking in many people's minds issues that don't belong together. Sort of "anti-modern" ideas like opposing gay marriage has become linked with Farage/UKIP and then Out.Richard_Tyndall said:
That is exactly what Carswell said in his latest blog posting this morning.Life_ina_market_town said:Those who voted UKIP in the election will vote to leave in the referendum. The Out campaign must convince those who voted Tory to do so as well. Farage is not that man.
Attacking HIV migrants may work if you're following a 16% strategy but it won't appeal to the 60%+ you need to appeal to in order to get to 51%.
I think Steven Woolfe followed by Diane James would have been the best potential UKIP leaders. Farage is now turning into a serial joker0 -
That's a slipperly slope - who are we to have an opinion on the inner workings of any party then, but we spend most of our time expressing such opinions.isam said:
If the lib dems refused to accept Cleggs resignation and he stayed on I would think 'good for them, who am I to even have an opinion in it?'CD13 said:Wouldn't it be funny if Ed did unresign? All those Labourites who came out of the woodwork to say they always knew he was a dud would have some explaining to do.
At least Farage and Cleggy haven't suffered from that.
Note I don't mind Farage coming back.0 -
Funny coming from someone who is happy to get abusive on a regular basis. I presume this means that you are regularly losing the argument.TheScreamingEagles said:
UKIP are the only challengers to Labour in the North eh?nigel4england said:
For a fledgling party it's all about winning vote share, which will be transformed into seats at a later date.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is all about winning seats.nigel4england said:
How is going from 3% to 13% not a success?TheScreamingEagles said:From the UKIP statement
The NEC also concluded that UKIP’s general election campaign had been a great success.
How the heck is a net loss of one MP a great success?
You had two incumbents, and Reckless, to quote someone here, was up against the inept Kelly Tolhurst
How did he manage to lose that.
How do you feel about UKIP being the only challengers to Labour in the North?
I nearly voted Tory for the first time, if I lived in a marginal I probably would have done, however arrogant egotistical twats like you are always there to remind me not to.
If you ignore all those seats the Tories won, or are in second place to Labour.
And I love it when you get abusive, means you Kippers have lost the argument.
Oh and by the way you should be thanking UKIP. Without them taking all those votes off Labour we would have Miliband in No 10 now. The won you the election.0 -
Are you including the country in this?SouthamObserver said:
What companies have our PM and Chancellor ever run?
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If Clegg had pledged to resign if xyz happened and it did, so he resigned but made clear in his resignation speech he didn't want to resign ... then I think we'd all be bemused and laughing at them. It makes Farage look silly and it makes UKIP look like a one man band.isam said:
If the lib dems refused to accept Cleggs resignation and he stayed on I would think 'good for them, who am I to even have an opinion in it?'CD13 said:Wouldn't it be funny if Ed did unresign? All those Labourites who came out of the woodwork to say they always knew he was a dud would have some explaining to do.
At least Farage and Cleggy haven't suffered from that.0 -
I am afraid you are correct. I don't actually care too much what effect that has on UKIP but I do care what effect it has on the Out vote.Philip_Thompson said:
I think he's right. Farage play the role of a populist well but the problem is that he's ended up linking in many people's minds issues that don't belong together. Sort of "anti-modern" ideas like opposing gay marriage has become linked with Farage/UKIP and then Out.Richard_Tyndall said:
That is exactly what Carswell said in his latest blog posting this morning.Life_ina_market_town said:Those who voted UKIP in the election will vote to leave in the referendum. The Out campaign must convince those who voted Tory to do so as well. Farage is not that man.
Attacking HIV migrants may work if you're following a 16% strategy but it won't appeal to the 60%+ you need to appeal to in order to get to 51%.
I think Steven Woolfe followed by Diane James would have been the best potential UKIP leaders. Farage is now turning into a serial joker0 -
Mr. SE, if Cameron allows a free hand when it comes to campaigning in the referendum, I think splits could be surprisingly few. If he tries not to allow that, he'll both fail and hasten his own demise.0
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Brilliant news that Nige is back.
I imagine Carswell is tweeting his delight at this news...0 -
Incidentally, UKIP should spend its time banging on about the EU trying to force us to take migrants. I suspect more people will be concerned by that than Farage's unique and innovative concept of resignation.0
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Hi JohnJohnO said:
We need to settle our bet about the Tory victory and moving right to achieve it. Have I won in your view?Richard_Tyndall said:
They helped the Tories win the election by reducing Labour support in many critical constituencies so you probably should take them seriously. And of course more people took them seriously than the Lib Dems and SNP combined.GIN1138 said:Did anybody take UKIP seriously before this debacle? I mean really?
I posted about this on here yesterday and have also sent you a PM asking for your details. Agree entirely you won and believe I have £100 with your name on it :-)0 -
Farage the best man for the job and has got the job
Great news for Ukip, bad news for everyone else.. Hence the anger from other party followers
Happy Monday!0 -
Well, indeed. They run the country and have never run a business. Dave somehow ended up as head of PR at Carlton despite having no experience, but George does not seem to have done much, if any, private sector work at all. What's good for the Tories is surely good for all other parties, isn't it?BannedInParis said:
Are you including the country in this?SouthamObserver said:
What companies have our PM and Chancellor ever run?
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Personally I think bad for both. I just don't care too much about UKIP except as a vehicle. I am sure you have noticed in the past my deep rooted dislike of all parties and almost all politicians.TGOHF said:
So Farage staying is good for Ukip but bad for BOO ?Richard_Tyndall said:
That is exactly what Carswell said in his latest blog posting this morning.Life_ina_market_town said:Those who voted UKIP in the election will vote to leave in the referendum. The Out campaign must convince those who voted Tory to do so as well. Farage is not that man.
I know a lot of UKIP supporters think Farage is great but I think his appeal to the voter is outweighed by his ability to drive away people who might otherwise make a huge contribution to the Eurosceptic movement. UKIP is under Farage is now becoming a liability to the BOO campaign.0 -
Will Coral now unaccept every bet I've lost on a three legged donkey ?0
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Mr. Observer, a legitimate point, except that Cameron's won two elections and he and Osborne have the trust (at least more than Labour) of the electorate. Raising doubts about someone's suitability for the job is a blunter attack line when they've just been returned to office with more votes, more seats and (perhaps uniquely) moved from coalition to outright majority.0
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I don't understand why bookies don't go 95% book on markets like this. Gotta be cheaper than raising money on the markets. Plus, they get the chance that some customers won't be around to collect winnings....Tissue_Price said:Most Seats at Next General Election, per @bet365
Tories 4/11
Labour 9/4
UKIP 16/1
Green 100/1
LD 100/10 -
It's fantastic - made my day too.isam said:Farage the best man for the job and has got the job
Great news for Ukip, bad news for everyone else.. Hence the anger from other party followers
Happy Monday!0 -
If UKIP want to win the referendum in 2017, Farage will need to change his approach dramatically. Being adored by his devotees might be enjoyable for him, but it won't win a majority of the country.isam said:Farage the best man for the job and has got the job
Great news for Ukip, bad news for everyone else.. Hence the anger from other party followers
Happy Monday!
Right now, the EU referendum is looking very good for the In side. Farage back at the helm of UKIP and the government with huge leverage going into the EU negotiations. The only way Cameron could mess it up now is by failing to get limits on immigration.0 -
The problem I have is regardless of whether it is a free vote or not Cameron as the leader of the Conservative Party is hugely influential. If he campaigns to stay in despite gaining no significant concessions it will have a bearing on the outcome.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. SE, if Cameron allows a free hand when it comes to campaigning in the referendum, I think splits could be surprisingly few. If he tries not to allow that, he'll both fail and hasten his own demise.
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Of course. I was merely pointing out the stupidity of Mr Bond's original post about Liz Kendall being a no hoper because she had not run a company.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, a legitimate point, except that Cameron's won two elections and he and Osborne have the trust (at least more than Labour) of the electorate. Raising doubts about someone's suitability for the job is a blunter attack line when they've just been returned to office with more votes, more seats and (perhaps uniquely) moved from coalition to outright majority.
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Hi Richard, Sorry, didn't see your post...and have only now read the pm! Many thanks...I hadn't realized that it was £100 (thought it was £50 but I'll take your wordRichard_Tyndall said:
Hi JohnJohnO said:
We need to settle our bet about the Tory victory and moving right to achieve it. Have I won in your view?Richard_Tyndall said:
They helped the Tories win the election by reducing Labour support in many critical constituencies so you probably should take them seriously. And of course more people took them seriously than the Lib Dems and SNP combined.GIN1138 said:Did anybody take UKIP seriously before this debacle? I mean really?
I posted about this on here yesterday and have also sent you a PM asking for your details. Agree entirely you won and believe I have £100 with your name on it :-)
) but why don't you donate it to pbc? Mike will then love us both. 0 -
The EU referendum will do as many favours to UKIP as AV did for the Lib Dems.HYUFD said:SeanF Indeed, but the EU referendum is obviously potentially as good a marketing event for UKIP as the Scottish independence referendum was for the SNP, like the SNP their best result would probably be a reasonably close defeat, a big In vote would obviously set back their campaign, an Out vote would effectively mean they had no reason to exist
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For all those who had any residual doubt that UKIP was just a vanity project for Nigel Farage....0
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On topic - Farage has said a lot of things that haven't turned out to be true. Defections that didn't happen etc...0
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arf - harsh but fare..!Scott_P said:@PickardJE: David Miliband speaks. Translation: "I TOLD YOU SO I TOLD YOU SO I TOLD YOU..."
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Didn't Labour's vote go up by 1.4% v. 2010?Richard_Tyndall said:
Funny coming from someone who is happy to get abusive on a regular basis. I presume this means that you are regularly losing the argument.TheScreamingEagles said:
UKIP are the only challengers to Labour in the North eh?nigel4england said:
For a fledgling party it's all about winning vote share, which will be transformed into seats at a later date.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is all about winning seats.nigel4england said:
How is going from 3% to 13% not a success?TheScreamingEagles said:From the UKIP statement
The NEC also concluded that UKIP’s general election campaign had been a great success.
How the heck is a net loss of one MP a great success?
You had two incumbents, and Reckless, to quote someone here, was up against the inept Kelly Tolhurst
How did he manage to lose that.
How do you feel about UKIP being the only challengers to Labour in the North?
I nearly voted Tory for the first time, if I lived in a marginal I probably would have done, however arrogant egotistical twats like you are always there to remind me not to.
If you ignore all those seats the Tories won, or are in second place to Labour.
And I love it when you get abusive, means you Kippers have lost the argument.
Oh and by the way you should be thanking UKIP. Without them taking all those votes off Labour we would have Miliband in No 10 now. The won you the election.0 -
Additionally some of the turnouts were incredible.Alistair said:SNP Election facts
36 of the SNP's 56 seats were won with more than 50% of the vote
Biggest win - Dundee East 61.91% (I got on this at 2/5)
Smallest vote share - Edinburgh South 33.79%
Smallest vote share to win a seat - Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk 36.6% (They lost Orkeny & Shetland and Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale with a higher percentage of the vote.
The SNP got less than 40% in only 5 seats.
81.9% turnout to hand Jo Swinson her jotters in East Dunbartonshire.0 -
Traditionally many phone customers bet antepost on credit. Obviously that isn't usually the case in the internet age.Pong said:
I don't understand why bookies don't go 95% book on markets like this. Gotta be cheaper than raising money on the markets. Plus, they get the chance that some customers won't be around to collect winnings....Tissue_Price said:Most Seats at Next General Election, per @bet365
Tories 4/11
Labour 9/4
UKIP 16/1
Green 100/1
LD 100/10 -
Thanks John. I've posted the donate button.JohnO said:
Hi Richard, Sorry, didn't see your post...and have only now read the pm! Many thanks...I hadn't realized that it was £100 (thought it was £50) but why don't you donate it to pbc? Mike will then love us both.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hi JohnJohnO said:
We need to settle our bet about the Tory victory and moving right to achieve it. Have I won in your view?Richard_Tyndall said:
They helped the Tories win the election by reducing Labour support in many critical constituencies so you probably should take them seriously. And of course more people took them seriously than the Lib Dems and SNP combined.GIN1138 said:Did anybody take UKIP seriously before this debacle? I mean really?
I posted about this on here yesterday and have also sent you a PM asking for your details. Agree entirely you won and believe I have £100 with your name on it :-)
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That's very generous of you John cheers and happy to do so.JohnO said:
Hi Richard, Sorry, didn't see your post...and have only now read the pm! Many thanks...I hadn't realized that it was £100 (thought it was £50) but why don't you donate it to pbc? Mike will then love us both.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hi JohnJohnO said:
We need to settle our bet about the Tory victory and moving right to achieve it. Have I won in your view?Richard_Tyndall said:
They helped the Tories win the election by reducing Labour support in many critical constituencies so you probably should take them seriously. And of course more people took them seriously than the Lib Dems and SNP combined.GIN1138 said:Did anybody take UKIP seriously before this debacle? I mean really?
I posted about this on here yesterday and have also sent you a PM asking for your details. Agree entirely you won and believe I have £100 with your name on it :-)
cheers and congratulations on your perspicuity :-)
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I think anyone wanting to be Chancellor should have some private sector experience.SouthamObserver said:
Of course. I was merely pointing out the stupidity of Mr Bond's original post about Liz Kendall being a no hoper because she had not run a company.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, a legitimate point, except that Cameron's won two elections and he and Osborne have the trust (at least more than Labour) of the electorate. Raising doubts about someone's suitability for the job is a blunter attack line when they've just been returned to office with more votes, more seats and (perhaps uniquely) moved from coalition to outright majority.
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A bigger problem is that leaving the referendum should be a means to an end in itself (the end being leaving the EU), not a stepping stone to the success of yet another political party.Philip_Thompson said:
The EU referendum will do as many favours to UKIP as AV did for the Lib Dems.HYUFD said:SeanF Indeed, but the EU referendum is obviously potentially as good a marketing event for UKIP as the Scottish independence referendum was for the SNP, like the SNP their best result would probably be a reasonably close defeat, a big In vote would obviously set back their campaign, an Out vote would effectively mean they had no reason to exist
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Pleasure and Richard's donation, if he agrees, is unconditional....however, bends his knee in humble supplication, how about un-banning AudreyAnne?MikeSmithson said:
Thanks John. I've posted the donate button.JohnO said:
Hi Richard, Sorry, didn't see your post...and have only now read the pm! Many thanks...I hadn't realized that it was £100 (thought it was £50) but why don't you donate it to pbc? Mike will then love us both.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hi JohnJohnO said:
We need to settle our bet about the Tory victory and moving right to achieve it. Have I won in your view?Richard_Tyndall said:
They helped the Tories win the election by reducing Labour support in many critical constituencies so you probably should take them seriously. And of course more people took them seriously than the Lib Dems and SNP combined.GIN1138 said:Did anybody take UKIP seriously before this debacle? I mean really?
I posted about this on here yesterday and have also sent you a PM asking for your details. Agree entirely you won and believe I have £100 with your name on it :-)0 -
This sorry episode demonstrates that Nigel is all fur coat and no knickers. The colour purple must be embarrassed to be associated with these shysters0
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I'm with you in that I can't stand the vast majority of them, Farage made me laugh as he was prepared to say what others dare not.Richard_Tyndall said:
Personally I think bad for both. I just don't care too much about UKIP except as a vehicle. I am sure you have noticed in the past my deep rooted dislike of all parties and almost all politicians.TGOHF said:
So Farage staying is good for Ukip but bad for BOO ?Richard_Tyndall said:
That is exactly what Carswell said in his latest blog posting this morning.Life_ina_market_town said:Those who voted UKIP in the election will vote to leave in the referendum. The Out campaign must convince those who voted Tory to do so as well. Farage is not that man.
I know a lot of UKIP supporters think Farage is great but I think his appeal to the voter is outweighed by his ability to drive away people who might otherwise make a huge contribution to the Eurosceptic movement. UKIP is under Farage is now becoming a liability to the BOO campaign.
I am a Kipper for two reasons, I want us out of the EU and the return of grammar schools.
It is nothing to do with supporting Farage though I do admire the way he has taken it to the other parties and could ultimately be responsible for the downfall of Labour, I do agree he needs a rest and someone like Evans or Woolfe should take over, with Farage making the occasional appearance on QT etc.
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It's quite extraordinary how many Labour people apparently knew all along that Ed was crap. One can only wonder why none of them said so at the time.0
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I'd say that the two most important things to come out of the 2015 general election is that I'm going to be very, very happy if Jim Murphy and Nigel Farage both stay in their roles,
Carswell to drop the UKIP whip and become an independent could have good value if anyone's offering it.0 -
Philip Thompson Rubbish, latest yougov polls already show In only has a 9% lead, even less than No won by in indyref, unlike the LDs UKIP are not in coalition with the government. Farage's strategy to win the EU Parliament elections and then get an EU referendum with as high an Out vote as possible follows Salmond's strategy of winning the Holyrood elections and then getting an independence referendum with as high a Yes vote as possible
Farage, like Salmond, is a marmite character, you either love him or hate him, but both have charisma undoubtedly0 -
Done. And with pleasure. Thanks again for a great site Mike.MikeSmithson said:
Thanks John. I've posted the donate button.JohnO said:
Hi Richard, Sorry, didn't see your post...and have only now read the pm! Many thanks...I hadn't realized that it was £100 (thought it was £50) but why don't you donate it to pbc? Mike will then love us both.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hi JohnJohnO said:
We need to settle our bet about the Tory victory and moving right to achieve it. Have I won in your view?Richard_Tyndall said:
They helped the Tories win the election by reducing Labour support in many critical constituencies so you probably should take them seriously. And of course more people took them seriously than the Lib Dems and SNP combined.GIN1138 said:Did anybody take UKIP seriously before this debacle? I mean really?
I posted about this on here yesterday and have also sent you a PM asking for your details. Agree entirely you won and believe I have £100 with your name on it :-)0 -
Mike, I asked Peter from Putney to donate my £20 winnings to the site, I will also have another £20 to come soon from a football bet, I will donate that as well.MikeSmithson said:
Thanks John. I've posted the donate button.JohnO said:
Hi Richard, Sorry, didn't see your post...and have only now read the pm! Many thanks...I hadn't realized that it was £100 (thought it was £50) but why don't you donate it to pbc? Mike will then love us both.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hi JohnJohnO said:
We need to settle our bet about the Tory victory and moving right to achieve it. Have I won in your view?Richard_Tyndall said:
They helped the Tories win the election by reducing Labour support in many critical constituencies so you probably should take them seriously. And of course more people took them seriously than the Lib Dems and SNP combined.GIN1138 said:Did anybody take UKIP seriously before this debacle? I mean really?
I posted about this on here yesterday and have also sent you a PM asking for your details. Agree entirely you won and believe I have £100 with your name on it :-)0 -
I think that Farage made the pledge to resign because he thought he was an absolute certainty to win. You could see by his demeanour during the count just how angry he was at the thought of losing. I was chuffed that so many well known labour/lib dem mps lost their seats but was full of admiration for the way they handled themselves giving their losing speeches and generally in the respectful way that they behaved. Compare that to how Farage behaved.
I know on Friday morning when he said that he may stand again as UKIP leader that he was always going to carry on as I am certain that he would have stood again and have been re-elected. This decision today is just typical of the man. He just could not comtemplate someone else being in charge of his party or him being out of the public eye. He has become addicted to the fame.
I do not see how this will help with UKIPs prime reason for being, withdrawal from the EU. The public will see through him and a large majority will vote to stay in.0 -
https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/597783244432609280
This latest Farage idiocy will prove really toxic, it will run and run. He would have been much better just waiting for a new election after summer and walking that than doing this nonsense.0 -
Full transcript of David Miliband's interview has been released.
"Neener, neener, neener, neener, neener, neener, neener, neener, neener, neener, neener, neener."0 -
I think you mean two sentences.Richard_Nabavi said:But surely Mark Reckles must have won? Kelly Tolhurst was an embarrasing disaster who could get too sentences out without making a fool of herself, were we not told?
0
