politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON moves to 9% lead in first GE2020 poll.
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I doubt it'll go down like that, but it'd be quite funny if that did happen!RodCrosby said:
'permission to speak, sir!'The_Apocalypse said:
Popularity is an issue, but given he commanded men in the army, I think he can command a political partyDecrepitJohnL said:
There are a lot of pro-Jarvis posts on the previous thread iirc but most seemed to come from the right. The consensus was that he has an impressive biography. Whether he has the necessary political experience to lead the party, or the popularity within it to be elected, are other questions.pinkrose said:Sorry if already posted but what do people think about Dan Jarvis MP as Labour's next leader? A former Parachute Regiment Commander,single father for a time after his wife died of cancer, Barnsley MP, not associated with divisions of Blair-left etc
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labours-next-leader-steely-eyed-5670953
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What's wrong with multiculturalism? Most people who attack it are just using the issue as a smokescreen for their Islamophobia.Dair said:
Race has never been (or at least today is not) the problem. Cultural differences are. Multiculturalism which is supported by Labour, the Tories, the Liberals and UKIP is the problem. It won't stop. Without a strong domestic culture I really don;t see what England can do., it won't create any civic society.SeanT said:
I was just in a Wetherspoons in Angel, Islington (not my normal drinking estab, but the GF likes her cheap Sailor Jerrys). What struck me was how casually, automatically, unthinkingly multiracial it was - black, brown, white, and Polish, English, Spanish, with not even a hint of awareness of racial difference. Just everyone drinking, dancing and snogging (such is modern Britain, or at least London).AndyJS said:
IMO focusing so strongly on ethnicity is one of the problems for the left in the UK today. Voters in Middle England don't have a problem voting for people who happen to be from an ethnic minority like Sajid Javid and Nadhim Zahawi but they don't like it being a big issue.HYUFD said:Surbiton As I posted below there are now 5 million ethnic minority voters in Britain, and Umunna is perfectly placed to appeal to suburban middle Britain even if he loses a few votes to UKIP in Barnsley
And yet there was an elephant not in the room. Islam.
Chuka Umunna is exactly the leader Labour do NOT need!! Smarmy, London-elite, metrosexual, Blairite that holds the core Labour support in contempt. David Lammy is a much much better candidate.
Dan Jarvis is my favourite for leader but Lammy is second, if he doesn't run for London Mayor.
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Very different organisations. A political party is voluntary and consultative, even argumentative body. A parachute regiment battalion is heirarchichal and subject to Queens regulations.The_Apocalypse said:
Popularity is an issue, but given he commanded men in the army, I think he can command a political partyDecrepitJohnL said:
There are a lot of pro-Jarvis posts on the previous thread iirc but most seemed to come from the right. The consensus was that he has an impressive biography. Whether he has the necessary political experience to lead the party, or the popularity within it to be elected, are other questions.pinkrose said:Sorry if already posted but what do people think about Dan Jarvis MP as Labour's next leader? A former Parachute Regiment Commander,single father for a time after his wife died of cancer, Barnsley MP, not associated with divisions of Blair-left etc
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labours-next-leader-steely-eyed-5670953
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Do you think even very very strong (Sturgeonesque in Scotland) leadership ratings can't win the next Election for Labour with the SNP about ?RodCrosby said:
SNP are in the mix.
JoeVoter: "F*** that, where's my Tory candidate?"
I don't catch your drift. Elaborate!
Well it seems to my mind that the SNP did well in Scotland because Sturgeon's leader ratings were very decent, and Tories in England because of Dave's PM ratings/leader ratings.
Or do the Labour leader ratings not actually matter a jot if the next Con leader has decent PM ratings ?0 -
Bullshit. If the Union ends then the people responsible are those whose life work was ending it, the SNP.Dair said:
I can't blame people for not understanding a joke? The Tories were putting up billboards with Ed Miliband in Alex and then Nicola's pocket. Then posters about Nicola puppeteering miliband.MP_SE said:
You can't really blame people when Alex Salmond was going around saying the SNP would be writing Labour's budget. Hopefully they get FFA and can look on as they squirm.Dair said:
Why, he was as guilty as the Tories for the racist lies about Scotland. He repeated anti-Scottish rhetoric on an hourly basis. If I cost him a seat, good. In reality he just didn't get the votes he needed. He was a failure.MP_SE said:Feel quite sorry for Nige if this is true:
https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/597093924243648512
The only people to blame for Labour's defeat are Labour. The only people to blame for the end of the Union are the Tories and their UKIP friends.
If the Union ends its be an incredible SNP success story. Own it.0 -
That's true, but I guess I was trying to say that he does, at the very least have some leadership skills - which is more than Ed Miliband had.foxinsoxuk said:
Very different organisations. A political party is voluntary and consultative, even argumentative body. A parachute regiment battalion is heirarchichal and subject to Queens regulations.The_Apocalypse said:
Popularity is an issue, but given he commanded men in the army, I think he can command a political partyDecrepitJohnL said:
There are a lot of pro-Jarvis posts on the previous thread iirc but most seemed to come from the right. The consensus was that he has an impressive biography. Whether he has the necessary political experience to lead the party, or the popularity within it to be elected, are other questions.pinkrose said:Sorry if already posted but what do people think about Dan Jarvis MP as Labour's next leader? A former Parachute Regiment Commander,single father for a time after his wife died of cancer, Barnsley MP, not associated with divisions of Blair-left etc
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labours-next-leader-steely-eyed-5670953
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Fox Streatham has plenty of Asian voters and Umunna increased his majority by more than 10,000 there0
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As I said a quarter of the USA is not white. The same can't be said in the UK.HYUFD said:PT No, Obama also won big margins with the Hispanic and Asian vote, more than Kerry won and got more ethnic minority voters to the polls, not just with Black voters. Of course if Labour got almost all those 3% of black voters to the polls and increased black turnout as Obama did that also is not to be sniffed at. In 2012 ethnic minority turnout in the US actually rose higher than white turnout
The situations aren't remotely the same.
The way to win is to target a majority of people, not a fraction.0 -
Labour has no problem winning and stacking up votes in London, it's in the English marginals we need to win and Umunna is not the person to get them back for Labour.HYUFD said:Fox Streatham has plenty of Asian voters and Umunna increased his majority by more than 10,000 there
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The problem with multiculturalism is that it encourages diverse cultures to exist side by side without integration. That endangers social solidarity, and causes politics to move from being about the battle of ideas to simply ethnic competition for the spoils of office. Recent events in Tower Hamlets demonstrate what the future could look like if we follow that path. The situation there also showed how some people use the label "Islamophobic" to stifle accurate criticism and dissent.pinkrose said:
What's wrong with multiculturalism? Most people who attack it are just using the issue as a smokescreen for their Islamophobia.Dair said:
Race has never been (or at least today is not) the problem. Cultural differences are. Multiculturalism which is supported by Labour, the Tories, the Liberals and UKIP is the problem. It won't stop. Without a strong domestic culture I really don;t see what England can do., it won't create any civic society.SeanT said:
I was just in a Wetherspoons in Angel, Islington (not my normal drinking estab, but the GF likes her cheap Sailor Jerrys). What struck me was how casually, automatically, unthinkingly multiracial it was - black, brown, white, and Polish, English, Spanish, with not even a hint of awareness of racial difference. Just everyone drinking, dancing and snogging (such is modern Britain, or at least London).AndyJS said:
IMO focusing so strongly on ethnicity is one of the problems for the left in the UK today. Voters in Middle England don't have a problem voting for people who happen to be from an ethnic minority like Sajid Javid and Nadhim Zahawi but they don't like it being a big issue.HYUFD said:Surbiton As I posted below there are now 5 million ethnic minority voters in Britain, and Umunna is perfectly placed to appeal to suburban middle Britain even if he loses a few votes to UKIP in Barnsley
And yet there was an elephant not in the room. Islam.
Chuka Umunna is exactly the leader Labour do NOT need!! Smarmy, London-elite, metrosexual, Blairite that holds the core Labour support in contempt. David Lammy is a much much better candidate.
Dan Jarvis is my favourite for leader but Lammy is second, if he doesn't run for London Mayor.0 -
Pinkrose Lammy is personable but not very bright, as his Mastermind appearance showed. Umunna is far more articulate, Umunna leader -Jarvis deputy would be best0
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No the hardest work was done last time. I'm sure Osborne has a good idea and plan worked out on what to do from here.notme said:
How do you feel the budgetary pressures this coalition will be working under impact that? 2010 to 2015 will be a picnic compared to this parliament. Outside of specific areas, we have had more consolidation rather than real reductions. But real departmental reductions are part of the budget now. How are they going to find these £12 billion welfare cuts without seriously pissing off a load of people?SeanT said:
PS Congratulations on your prescient observation that 2015 would be another 1992. You nailed it, unlike me (and others).Jonathan said:
Saying it's too early to write anything off does not imply anything is ignored.SeanT said:
I remember people saying the Tories might not win a majority for a generation, after 1997.Jonathan said:
No one knows what 5 years will hold. I remember people saying Labour would never win again in 1992.RodCrosby said:2020
"and all the polls say Labour are 6 points ahead, an amazing turnaround from 2015, for the New New Labour party. However, experts say Labour are still likely to fall short of an overall majority. Labour leader Mary Creagh has ruled out any kind of deal with the SNP. She has even written it in her own blood on the wall of Labour Party HQ in London..."
Voters: "Just show me the box marked Conservative..."
And, as it turned out, they were completely right.
Nationalist Scotland (and now UKIP and potentially PC) represent an existential threat to Labour, like nothing your party has seen before. Ignoring this truth is utterly stupid.
I shall regard your predictions with the requisite respect, in future.
And in return I will offer sincere advice: I really do think this is not another average defeat for Labour, it is possibly epochal, unless the party learns. Scotland changes everything, and the exciting habit of Not Voting Labour might easily spread southwards.
As for the best way to cut welfare, it's getting more people working and paying taxes and less on welfare in the first place. The Tories got 2 million more into work last time, do the same again now and the welfare budget will fall.0 -
Oooh fancy tactics. Your 50% is 47% btw. And irrelevant. Only those that vote count. Today 50% of Scotland voted SNP for Independence and freedom. Next year there will be a Referendum on the bill.HYUFD said:Dair And the only people to blame for voting to keep Scotland in the Union are the Scots themselves, only 35% of Scots voted SNP on Thursday, about 50% of Scots voted No last September
After a full year of Tory disaster, It will be a Yes vote.0 -
Exactly. It is about class. Chuka is a posh public school bloke who happens to be black. Lammy is a different class entirely, with direct personal experience of hardship.pinkrose said:
What's wrong with multiculturalism? Most people who attack it are just using the issue as a smokescreen for their Islamophobia.Dair said:
Race has never been (or at least today is not) the problem. Cultural differences are. Multiculturalism which is supported by Labour, the Tories, the Liberals and UKIP is the problem. It won't stop. Without a strong domestic culture I really don;t see what England can do., it won't create any civic society.SeanT said:
I was just in a Wetherspoons in Angel, Islington (not my normal drinking estab, but the GF likes her cheap Sailor Jerrys). What struck me was how casually, automatically, unthinkingly multiracial it was - black, brown, white, and Polish, English, Spanish, with not even a hint of awareness of racial difference. Just everyone drinking, dancing and snogging (such is modern Britain, or at least London).AndyJS said:
IMO focusing so strongly on ethnicity is one of the problems for the left in the UK today. Voters in Middle England don't have a problem voting for people who happen to be from an ethnic minority like Sajid Javid and Nadhim Zahawi but they don't like it being a big issue.HYUFD said:Surbiton As I posted below there are now 5 million ethnic minority voters in Britain, and Umunna is perfectly placed to appeal to suburban middle Britain even if he loses a few votes to UKIP in Barnsley
And yet there was an elephant not in the room. Islam.
Chuka Umunna is exactly the leader Labour do NOT need!! Smarmy, London-elite, metrosexual, Blairite that holds the core Labour support in contempt. David Lammy is a much much better candidate.
Dan Jarvis is my favourite for leader but Lammy is second, if he doesn't run for London Mayor.
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I suspect that the 'incredible success' depends on what they get after independence, and we're back to the currency / EU / UN etc stuff again.Philip_Thompson said:
Bullshit. If the Union ends then the people responsible are those whose life work was ending it, the SNP.Dair said:
I can't blame people for not understanding a joke? The Tories were putting up billboards with Ed Miliband in Alex and then Nicola's pocket. Then posters about Nicola puppeteering miliband.MP_SE said:
You can't really blame people when Alex Salmond was going around saying the SNP would be writing Labour's budget. Hopefully they get FFA and can look on as they squirm.Dair said:
Why, he was as guilty as the Tories for the racist lies about Scotland. He repeated anti-Scottish rhetoric on an hourly basis. If I cost him a seat, good. In reality he just didn't get the votes he needed. He was a failure.MP_SE said:Feel quite sorry for Nige if this is true:
https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/597093924243648512
The only people to blame for Labour's defeat are Labour. The only people to blame for the end of the Union are the Tories and their UKIP friends.
If the Union ends its be an incredible SNP success story. Own it.
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@Pulpstar
The SNP will harry the Tories with venom and vigour in the Commons. Labour will look like effete bedfellows in comparison.
Some leftists will be begging the SNP to run in England.
Add the Hung Parliament problem I've outlined.
Fade to black... (for Labour)0 -
Don't get our hopes up. You promised that last time but failed to deliver.Dair said:
Oooh fancy tactics. Your 50% is 47% btw. And irrelevant. Only those that vote count. Today 50% of Scotland voted SNP for Independence and freedom. Next year there will be a Referendum on the bill.HYUFD said:Dair And the only people to blame for voting to keep Scotland in the Union are the Scots themselves, only 35% of Scots voted SNP on Thursday, about 50% of Scots voted No last September
After a full year of Tory disaster, It will be a Yes vote.0 -
PT The last yougov had only 47% for independence and 75% of Scots did not vote SNP0
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Disagree sorry, but it's people who dislike or even hate Islamic cultural practices that are always banging on about multiculturalism and banging on about "integration". What is English culture anyway that they are not integrating with?JEO said:
The problem with multiculturalism is that it encourages diverse cultures to exist side by side without integration. That endangers social solidarity, and causes politics to move from being about the battle of ideas to simply ethnic competition for the spoils of office. Recent events in Tower Hamlets demonstrate what the future could look like if we follow that path. The situation there also showed how some people use the label "Islamophobic" to stifle accurate criticism and dissent.pinkrose said:
What's wrong with multiculturalism? Most people who attack it are just using the issue as a smokescreen for their Islamophobia.Dair said:
Race has never been (or at least today is not) the problem. Cultural differences are. Multiculturalism which is supported by Labour, the Tories, the Liberals and UKIP is the problem. It won't stop. Without a strong domestic culture I really don;t see what England can do., it won't create any civic society.SeanT said:
I was just in a Wetherspoons in Angel, Islington (not my normal drinking estab, but the GF likes her cheap Sailor Jerrys). What struck me was how casually, automatically, unthinkingly multiracial it was - black, brown, white, and Polish, English, Spanish, with not even a hint of awareness of racial difference. Just everyone drinking, dancing and snogging (such is modern Britain, or at least London).AndyJS said:
IMO focusing so strongly on ethnicity is one of the problems for the left in the UK today. Voters in Middle England don't have a problem voting for people who happen to be from an ethnic minority like Sajid Javid and Nadhim Zahawi but they don't like it being a big issue.HYUFD said:Surbiton As I posted below there are now 5 million ethnic minority voters in Britain, and Umunna is perfectly placed to appeal to suburban middle Britain even if he loses a few votes to UKIP in Barnsley
And yet there was an elephant not in the room. Islam.
Chuka Umunna is exactly the leader Labour do NOT need!! Smarmy, London-elite, metrosexual, Blairite that holds the core Labour support in contempt. David Lammy is a much much better candidate.
Dan Jarvis is my favourite for leader but Lammy is second, if he doesn't run for London Mayor.
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Multiculturalism creates differences between population within a distinct geographic area, it is anti-integration and causes long term issues and ghettoisation.pinkrose said:
What's wrong with multiculturalism? Most people who attack it are just using the issue as a smokescreen for their Islamophobia.Dair said:
Race has never been (or at least today is not) the problem. Cultural differences are. Multiculturalism which is supported by Labour, the Tories, the Liberals and UKIP is the problem. It won't stop. Without a strong domestic culture I really don;t see what England can do., it won't create any civic society.SeanT said:
I was just in a Wetherspoons in Angel, Islington (not my normal drinking estab, but the GF likes her cheap Sailor Jerrys). What struck me was how casually, automatically, unthinkingly multiracial it was - black, brown, white, and Polish, English, Spanish, with not even a hint of awareness of racial difference. Just everyone drinking, dancing and snogging (such is modern Britain, or at least London).AndyJS said:
IMO focusing so strongly on ethnicity is one of the problems for the left in the UK today. Voters in Middle England don't have a problem voting for people who happen to be from an ethnic minority like Sajid Javid and Nadhim Zahawi but they don't like it being a big issue.HYUFD said:Surbiton As I posted below there are now 5 million ethnic minority voters in Britain, and Umunna is perfectly placed to appeal to suburban middle Britain even if he loses a few votes to UKIP in Barnsley
And yet there was an elephant not in the room. Islam.0 -
I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.0 -
The last Yougov had Ed being PM by now. I'm talking about forthcoming polls.HYUFD said:PT The last yougov had only 47% for independence and 75% of Scots did not vote SNP
If anyone wants a bet on it I'll offer £10 at evens that a survey will show at least 55% backing independence by the end of the year.0 -
The people who are not "integrating" currently, as you see it, what exactly should they be doing that they are not?Dair said:
Multiculturalism creates differences between population within a distinct geographic area, it is anti-integration and causes long term issues and ghettoisation.pinkrose said:
What's wrong with multiculturalism? Most people who attack it are just using the issue as a smokescreen for their Islamophobia.Dair said:
Race has never been (or at least today is not) the problem. Cultural differences are. Multiculturalism which is supported by Labour, the Tories, the Liberals and UKIP is the problem. It won't stop. Without a strong domestic culture I really don;t see what England can do., it won't create any civic society.SeanT said:
I was just in a Wetherspoons in Angel, Islington (not my normal drinking estab, but the GF likes her cheap Sailor Jerrys). What struck me was how casually, automatically, unthinkingly multiracial it was - black, brown, white, and Polish, English, Spanish, with not even a hint of awareness of racial difference. Just everyone drinking, dancing and snogging (such is modern Britain, or at least London).AndyJS said:
IMO focusing so strongly on ethnicity is one of the problems for the left in the UK today. Voters in Middle England don't have a problem voting for people who happen to be from an ethnic minority like Sajid Javid and Nadhim Zahawi but they don't like it being a big issue.HYUFD said:Surbiton As I posted below there are now 5 million ethnic minority voters in Britain, and Umunna is perfectly placed to appeal to suburban middle Britain even if he loses a few votes to UKIP in Barnsley
And yet there was an elephant not in the room. Islam.
I am genuinely interested because I hear this but no-one ever mentions any specific things,which leads me to conclude it's just a smokescreen for their dislike or even hatred of Islam.0 -
Weren't we told by Sturgeon that the vote wasn't about independence?Dair said:
Oooh fancy tactics. Your 50% is 47% btw. And irrelevant. Only those that vote count. Today 50% of Scotland voted SNP for Independence and freedom. Next year there will be a Referendum on the bill.HYUFD said:Dair And the only people to blame for voting to keep Scotland in the Union are the Scots themselves, only 35% of Scots voted SNP on Thursday, about 50% of Scots voted No last September
After a full year of Tory disaster, It will be a Yes vote.0 -
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.0 -
Utterly ridiculous. A peaceful independence movement like the SNP can only ever succeed when they are given boosts by the conservative parties (in our case Unionists). Without Scotland being forced out, it probably wouldn't leave. But Farage and Cameron are making it happen.Philip_Thompson said:
Bullshit. If the Union ends then the people responsible are those whose life work was ending it, the SNP.Dair said:
I can't blame people for not understanding a joke? The Tories were putting up billboards with Ed Miliband in Alex and then Nicola's pocket. Then posters about Nicola puppeteering miliband.MP_SE said:
You can't really blame people when Alex Salmond was going around saying the SNP would be writing Labour's budget. Hopefully they get FFA and can look on as they squirm.Dair said:
Why, he was as guilty as the Tories for the racist lies about Scotland. He repeated anti-Scottish rhetoric on an hourly basis. If I cost him a seat, good. In reality he just didn't get the votes he needed. He was a failure.MP_SE said:Feel quite sorry for Nige if this is true:
https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/597093924243648512
The only people to blame for Labour's defeat are Labour. The only people to blame for the end of the Union are the Tories and their UKIP friends.
If the Union ends its be an incredible SNP success story. Own it.0 -
Off to bed for me. Good to have you aboard Ms Apocalypse. PB does need more diverse voices, just be tolerent of occasional discussions of the conduct of the Punic wars...The_Apocalypse said:
That's true, but I guess I was trying to say that he does, at the very least have some leadership skills - which is more than Ed Miliband had.foxinsoxuk said:
Very different organisations. A political party is voluntary and consultative, even argumentative body. A parachute regiment battalion is heirarchichal and subject to Queens regulations.The_Apocalypse said:
Popularity is an issue, but given he commanded men in the army, I think he can command a political partyDecrepitJohnL said:
There are a lot of pro-Jarvis posts on the previous thread iirc but most seemed to come from the right. The consensus was that he has an impressive biography. Whether he has the necessary political experience to lead the party, or the popularity within it to be elected, are other questions.pinkrose said:Sorry if already posted but what do people think about Dan Jarvis MP as Labour's next leader? A former Parachute Regiment Commander,single father for a time after his wife died of cancer, Barnsley MP, not associated with divisions of Blair-left etc
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labours-next-leader-steely-eyed-56709530 -
Yes. Lammy is also a better communicator than Umunna.foxinsoxuk said:
Exactly. It is about class. Chuka is a posh public school bloke who happens to be black. Lammy is a different class entirely, with direct personal experience of hardship.pinkrose said:
What's wrong with multiculturalism? Most people who attack it are just using the issue as a smokescreen for their Islamophobia.Dair said:
Race has never been (or at least today is not) the problem. Cultural differences are. Multiculturalism which is supported by Labour, the Tories, the Liberals and UKIP is the problem. It won't stop. Without a strong domestic culture I really don;t see what England can do., it won't create any civic society.SeanT said:
I was just in a Wetherspoons in Angel, Islington (not my normal drinking estab, but the GF likes her cheap Sailor Jerrys). What struck me was how casually, automatically, unthinkingly multiracial it was - black, brown, white, and Polish, English, Spanish, with not even a hint of awareness of racial difference. Just everyone drinking, dancing and snogging (such is modern Britain, or at least London).AndyJS said:
IMO focusing so strongly on ethnicity is one of the problems for the left in the UK today. Voters in Middle England don't have a problem voting for people who happen to be from an ethnic minority like Sajid Javid and Nadhim Zahawi but they don't like it being a big issue.HYUFD said:Surbiton As I posted below there are now 5 million ethnic minority voters in Britain, and Umunna is perfectly placed to appeal to suburban middle Britain even if he loses a few votes to UKIP in Barnsley
And yet there was an elephant not in the room. Islam.
Chuka Umunna is exactly the leader Labour do NOT need!! Smarmy, London-elite, metrosexual, Blairite that holds the core Labour support in contempt. David Lammy is a much much better candidate.
Dan Jarvis is my favourite for leader but Lammy is second, if he doesn't run for London Mayor.0 -
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.0 -
Didn't Ron Paul get there first? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ron-Pauls-Revolution-Movement-Inspired/dp/0062114794FrancisUrquhart said:Russell Brand is trademarking his own spelling of the word 'revolution'
His company has reserved right to use the logo with letters spelling 'love'...
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What I want to know is where is the 5% chance David Miliband flies back to Blighty to lead Labour. He's not even an MP 0 is it REALLY 5% ?!0
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A peaceful independence movement can succeed by winning the arguments. The SNP decided to rule out working with the Tories. That makes the SNP (not Scots) our opponents. What arrogance possesses you to think you're free to attack Cameron but he can't attack Surgeon?Dair said:
Utterly ridiculous. A peaceful independence movement like the SNP can only ever succeed when they are given boosts by the conservative parties (in our case Unionists). Without Scotland being forced out, it probably wouldn't leave. But Farage and Cameron are making it happen.Philip_Thompson said:
Bullshit. If the Union ends then the people responsible are those whose life work was ending it, the SNP.Dair said:
I can't blame people for not understanding a joke? The Tories were putting up billboards with Ed Miliband in Alex and then Nicola's pocket. Then posters about Nicola puppeteering miliband.MP_SE said:
You can't really blame people when Alex Salmond was going around saying the SNP would be writing Labour's budget. Hopefully they get FFA and can look on as they squirm.Dair said:
Why, he was as guilty as the Tories for the racist lies about Scotland. He repeated anti-Scottish rhetoric on an hourly basis. If I cost him a seat, good. In reality he just didn't get the votes he needed. He was a failure.MP_SE said:Feel quite sorry for Nige if this is true:
https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/597093924243648512
The only people to blame for Labour's defeat are Labour. The only people to blame for the end of the Union are the Tories and their UKIP friends.
If the Union ends its be an incredible SNP success story. Own it.
Hypocrites.0 -
Dair No voters turn out when it matters, and a rerun referendum would still be a narrow No as the polls show, the SNP still did not get more than half of the electorate who did vote on Thursday, and in any case Scotland is going to get more powers anyway0
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I'm sure some have ambition so high they'd willingly sacrifice their 'tackle' for the chance.Dair said:
You can't have two males as leader and deputy of Labour. It;s not permitted.HYUFD said:Pinkrose Lammy is personable but not very bright, as his Mastermind appearance showed. Umunna is far more articulate, Umunna leader -Jarvis deputy would be best
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Rod By 2020 after EUref the Tories will have just as many problems from UKIP as Labour now have with the SNP0
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Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.0 -
There is more to it than that. Malik wrote an excellent essay on what is wrong with multiculturism a few years ago:pinkrose said:
The people who are not "integrating" currently, as you see it, what exactly should they be doing that they are not?Dair said:
Multiculturalism creates differences between population within a distinct geographic area, it is anti-integration and causes long term issues and ghettoisation.pinkrose said:
What's wrong with multiculturalism? Most people who attack it are just using the issue as a smokescreen for their Islamophobia.Dair said:
Race has never been (or at least today is not) the problem. Cultural differences are. Multiculturalism which is supported by Labour, the Tories, the Liberals and UKIP is the problem. It won't stop. Without a strong domestic culture I really don;t see what England can do., it won't create any civic society.SeanT said:
I was just in a Wetherspoons in Angel, Islington (not my normal drinking estab, but the GF likes her cheap Sailor Jerrys). What struck me was how casually, automatically, unthinkingly multiracial it was - black, brown, white, and Polish, English, Spanish, with not even a hint of awareness of racial difference. Just everyone drinking, dancing and snogging (such is modern Britain, or at least London).AndyJS said:
IMO focusing so strongly on ethnicity is one of the problems for the left in the UK today. Voters in Middle England don't have a problem voting for people who happen to be from an ethnic minority like Sajid Javid and Nadhim Zahawi but they don't like it being a big issue.HYUFD said:Surbiton As I posted below there are now 5 million ethnic minority voters in Britain, and Umunna is perfectly placed to appeal to suburban middle Britain even if he loses a few votes to UKIP in Barnsley
And yet there was an elephant not in the room. Islam.
I am genuinely interested because I hear this but no-one ever mentions any specific things,which leads me to conclude it's just a smokescreen for their dislike or even hatred of Islam.
http://www.kenanmalik.com/essays/against_mc.html
Well worth reading. Goodnight.0 -
No idea, I'm not English. It doesnt happen in Scotland that much. Sure there are hold outs like the Sarwars but most Asian immigrants and pretty much all afro-carribean immigrants are quite happy to integrate, get themselves a tartan, feel part of society, integrate their culture with ours and create a better whole. It does work.pinkrose said:The people who are not "integrating" currently, as you see it, what exactly should they be doing that they are not?
I am genuinely interested because I hear this but no-one ever mentions any specific things,which leads me to conclude it's just a smokescreen for their dislike or even hatred of Islam.0 -
Fox Lammy was a chorister at King's School Peterborough, went to Harvard and became a barrister, hardly Oliver Twist
Pinkrose Yes Lammy is a great communicator as showed by his mastermind answer than Henry VII succeeded Henry VIII!!0 -
It wasn't. But in 2018 it's coming.RobD said:
Weren't we told by Sturgeon that the vote wasn't about independence?Dair said:
Oooh fancy tactics. Your 50% is 47% btw. And irrelevant. Only those that vote count. Today 50% of Scotland voted SNP for Independence and freedom. Next year there will be a Referendum on the bill.HYUFD said:Dair And the only people to blame for voting to keep Scotland in the Union are the Scots themselves, only 35% of Scots voted SNP on Thursday, about 50% of Scots voted No last September
After a full year of Tory disaster, It will be a Yes vote.0 -
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.0 -
One good example of whether an ethnic group is integrated is whether they tend to cluster in neighbourhoods of their own group or not. Another is whether they have a strong preference for voting for political candidates of their own background over those of other backgrounds. Another is whether there is a cultural acceptance for getting married and having children with people from outside their group.pinkrose said:
The people who are not "integrating" currently, as you see it, what exactly should they be doing that they are not?Dair said:
Multiculturalism creates differences between population within a distinct geographic area, it is anti-integration and causes long term issues and ghettoisation.pinkrose said:
What's wrong with multiculturalism? Most people who attack it are just using the issue as a smokescreen for their Islamophobia.Dair said:
Race has never been (or at least today is not) the problem. Cultural differences are. Multiculturalism which is supported by Labour, the Tories, the Liberals and UKIP is the problem. It won't stop. Without a strong domestic culture I really don;t see what England can do., it won't create any civic society.SeanT said:
I was just in a Wetherspoons in Angel, Islington (not my normal drinking estab, but the GF likes her cheap Sailor Jerrys). What struck me was how casually, automatically, unthinkingly multiracial it was - black, brown, white, and Polish, English, Spanish, with not even a hint of awareness of racial difference. Just everyone drinking, dancing and snogging (such is modern Britain, or at least London).AndyJS said:
IMO focusing so strongly on ethnicity is one of the problems for the left in the UK today. Voters in Middle England don't have a problem voting for people who happen to be from an ethnic minority like Sajid Javid and Nadhim Zahawi but they don't like it being a big issue.HYUFD said:Surbiton As I posted below there are now 5 million ethnic minority voters in Britain, and Umunna is perfectly placed to appeal to suburban middle Britain even if he loses a few votes to UKIP in Barnsley
And yet there was an elephant not in the room. Islam.
I am genuinely interested because I hear this but no-one ever mentions any specific things,which leads me to conclude it's just a smokescreen for their dislike or even hatred of Islam.0 -
IDK maybe he's gonna give up a million a year to fly back, maybe to win a seat, then maybe to win the leadership, then maybe to win an election.Pulpstar said:What I want to know is where is the 5% chance David Miliband flies back to Blighty to lead Labour. He's not even an MP 0 is it REALLY 5% ?!
Or not.0 -
PT By the end of the year legislation will have been passed to implement the Smith plans and give more powers for Scotland, maybe going further still0
-
And if the Yessers pull the same trick? (SNP in the constituencies, Green on the lists)HYUFD said:NOA Which is why it makes sense to vote Labour on the constituency vote and Tory on the list to maximise the unionist vote
0 -
It's been 6 months, about half of your majority is dead.HYUFD said:Dair No voters turn out when it matters, and a rerun referendum would still be a narrow No as the polls show, the SNP still did not get more than half of the electorate who did vote on Thursday, and in any case Scotland is going to get more powers anyway
Pure demographics.0 -
Just a point about well he is a posho, he is from a normal background etc....
According to the bible according to Crosby...the data shows it doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the MSM like to bang on about it e.g. Boris vs Red Ken...
What is far more important is that the candidate talking about what the target audience is interested / cares about and is he credible when talking about it and do they have the mood music right. It isn't about a particular background..see Boris doing well with voters who have zero in common with him.
Crosby gives the example of cuts in cost of public transport was the best thing Red Ken came up with and they had to employ the "dead cat strategy" when he did.
I would suggest for instance Miliband banging on and on and on about ZHC's...most of middle England isn't on one, so it is not something that is directly in their sphere of what is super important to them. The people who are concerned most about them are the metro liberals who think it is rather unfair way to treat people, but they aren't going to swing your election for you.0 -
Hahah, dude don't make people spew their drink over their computer!!!RodCrosby said:
I'm sure some have ambition so high they'd willingly sacrifice their 'tackle' for the chance.Dair said:
You can't have two males as leader and deputy of Labour. It;s not permitted.HYUFD said:Pinkrose Lammy is personable but not very bright, as his Mastermind appearance showed. Umunna is far more articulate, Umunna leader -Jarvis deputy would be best
0 -
They have said that about the Tories for years....Dair said:
It's been 6 months, about half of your majority is dead.HYUFD said:Dair No voters turn out when it matters, and a rerun referendum would still be a narrow No as the polls show, the SNP still did not get more than half of the electorate who did vote on Thursday, and in any case Scotland is going to get more powers anyway
Pure demographics.0 -
Dair Given average life expectancy is about 80 then it would take 15 years for a majority of the 65+ No voters to die off, and even then some will still be around, not forgetting 18-24 year olds also voted narrowly No0
-
While it seems like a quite decent school, it is still a public school and you can';t really hoid that against anyone. It's not like he;s one of the posh boys at private schoolHYUFD said:Fox Lammy was a chorister at King's School Peterborough, went to Harvard and became a barrister, hardly Oliver Twist
Pinkrose Yes Lammy is a great communicator as showed by his mastermind answer than Henry VII succeeded Henry VIII!!0 -
NOA Fair enough, but only about 2-3% vote Green in Scotland, even less than vote LD0
-
Where is this bet ?RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.0 -
Rod Indeed, especially if Cameron ends up leading the In campaign, the cries of 'betrayal' from the eurosceptic right and Kippers could match that of nats to Murphy and Miliband0
-
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.0 -
He was talking about Yes Scotland. The No Vote is dying. Six months in about half the 200k is demographically Yes now. That's without considering change of opinions.RobD said:
They have said that about the Tories for years....Dair said:
It's been 6 months, about half of your majority is dead.HYUFD said:Dair No voters turn out when it matters, and a rerun referendum would still be a narrow No as the polls show, the SNP still did not get more than half of the electorate who did vote on Thursday, and in any case Scotland is going to get more powers anyway
Pure demographics.0 -
@ 'surbiton said:
Having not yet recovered from the Thursday night mauling , I wanted to check out my model against the real votes using UNS separately for England, Wales and Scotland.
These are the figures.
Con 319
Lab 243
SNP 55
LD 10
PC 3
GRN 1
SPK 1
NI 18
Total 650
But those weren't your figures which you seem to have conveniently forgotten or hoped nobody would notice.
As posted by you on 6.5.15
'surbiton said:
FINAL FORECAST
based on the Yougov 10000.
England, Scotland and Wales separately calculated by UNS.
LAB 283
CON 271
SNP 52
LD 17
UKIP 3*
PC 3
GRN 1
RES 1*
SPK 1
NI 18
Total 650
* Only 4 seats were not calculated by UNS. Three have been manually adjusted for UKIP. Clacton, Thanet S from Con and Thurrock from Labour. One for Respect from Labour.
No other statistical adjustments have been done.
and, a very Good Morning to all !0 -
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....0 -
Added to which, absent a big SLab recovery, this requires SNP MPs to vote themselves out of jobs. I know they support PR in theory, but they'd be able to find a principled objection to this particular maneuver, or at least an urgent dentist's appointment.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.0 -
It's not the fault of ethnic minorities if whites move out en masse, white flight anyone?JEO said:
One good example of whether an ethnic group is integrated is whether they tend to cluster in neighbourhoods of their own group or not. Another is whether they have a strong preference for voting for political candidates of their own background over those of other backgrounds. Another is whether there is a cultural acceptance for getting married and having children with people from outside their group.pinkrose said:
The people who are not "integrating" currently, as you see it, what exactly should they be doing that they are not?Dair said:
Multiculturalism creates differences between population within a distinct geographic area, it is anti-integration and causes long term issues and ghettoisation.pinkrose said:
What's wrong with multiculturalism? Most people who attack it are just using the issue as a smokescreen for their Islamophobia.Dair said:
Race has never been (or at least today is not) the problem. Cultural differences are. Multiculturalism which is supported by Labour, the Tories, the Liberals and UKIP is the problem. It won't stop. Without a strong domestic culture I really don;t see what England can do., it won't create any civic society.
I am genuinely interested because I hear this but no-one ever mentions any specific things,which leads me to conclude it's just a smokescreen for their dislike or even hatred of Islam.
Overwhelming majority of BME voters vote for Labour, who last time i looked were overwhelmingly white and middle class, no?
There is much more inter racial mixing going on than you seem to realise. Mixed race is the fastest growing segment of the population. I myself am a white woman married to an Asian man, so i know from first hand experience ;-)0 -
In F1 news, the Haas F1 team will be announcing its driver lineup later in the year. It is based in Kannapolis NC, near Charlotte, which is ground zero for NASCAR teams. It will be a legally separate entity than Stewart-Haas Racing, the NASCAR team.
The team has bought the Marussia facility in Banbury Oxfordshire as its European HQ.0 -
Also Rod you're mistakenly believing that the SNP would want voting reform this Parliament to be part of this extraordinary alliance. They don't. They want independence and have no reason to make this ludicrous alliance work. As we all know know it's in the SNP's interest to have the Tories in power. Why would they kick out their useful London opponents and be seen to be making Westminster work rather than be unworkable? Especially when this means sacrificing half their own seats now.
The SNP would find an excuse to kick this into the long grass.0 -
Dair If they both stand and win those positions not much Labour can do about it0
-
Didn't the youngest also vote no?Dair said:
He was talking about Yes Scotland. The No Vote is dying. Six months in about half the 200k is demographically Yes now. That's without considering change of opinions.RobD said:
They have said that about the Tories for years....Dair said:
It's been 6 months, about half of your majority is dead.HYUFD said:Dair No voters turn out when it matters, and a rerun referendum would still be a narrow No as the polls show, the SNP still did not get more than half of the electorate who did vote on Thursday, and in any case Scotland is going to get more powers anyway
Pure demographics.0 -
Dair As I also pointed out 18-24 year olds voted no so young voters are not automatically Yes0
-
The bet is for it to be introduced BEFORE the election.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
So you'd need to
Overcome a Tory majority
Overcome the Irish unionists
Get the SNP to shoot themselves in the head
Get this all rushed through Parliament
All before an election.
0 -
I am speaking on the candidate level when they have the choice between someone of their ethnic background and someone who is not.pinkrose said:
It's not the fault of ethnic minorities if whites move out en masse, white flight anyone?JEO said:
One good example of whether an ethnic group is integrated is whether they tend to cluster in neighbourhoods of their own group or not. Another is whether they have a strong preference for voting for political candidates of their own background over those of other backgrounds. Another is whether there is a cultural acceptance for getting married and having children with people from outside their group.pinkrose said:
The people who are not "integrating" currently, as you see it, what exactly should they be doing that they are not?Dair said:
Multiculturalism creates differences between population within a distinct geographic area, it is anti-integration and causes long term issues and ghettoisation.pinkrose said:
What's wrong with multiculturalism? Most people who attack it are just using the issue as a smokescreen for their Islamophobia.Dair said:
Race has never been (or at least today is not) the problem. Cultural differences are. Multiculturalism which is supported by Labour, the Tories, the Liberals and UKIP is the problem. It won't stop. Without a strong domestic culture I really don;t see what England can do., it won't create any civic society.
I am genuinely interested because I hear this but no-one ever mentions any specific things,which leads me to conclude it's just a smokescreen for their dislike or even hatred of Islam.
Overwhelming majority of BME voters vote for Labour, who last time i looked were overwhelmingly white and middle class, no?
There is much more inter racial mixing going on than you seem to realise. Mixed race is the fastest growing segment of the population. I myself am a white woman married to an Asian man, so i know from first hand experience ;-)
You seem to be presuming a lot about my realisations on the state of racial mixing considering I have not expressed any.0 -
Dair Chuka went to St Dunstan's and Manchester Uni, Lammy to King's School Peterborough, SOAS and Harvard, if anything David Lammy had the posher education0
-
I really don't think the SNP MPs give two hoots for Westminster. It's a means to an end.Philip_Thompson said:Also Rod you're mistakenly believing that the SNP would want voting reform this Parliament to be part of this extraordinary alliance. They don't. They want independence and have no reason to make this ludicrous alliance work. As we all know know it's in the SNP's interest to have the Tories in power. Why would they kick out their useful London opponents and be seen to be making Westminster work rather than be unworkable? Especially when this means sacrificing half their own seats now.
The SNP would find an excuse to kick this into the long grass.
If they make Labour realise they are fecked for as long as they're there, deals will be done, on PR ... on independence...
Labour don't seem to have any other credible options at the moment.0 -
I never said before the election. Try to pay attention!Philip_Thompson said:
The bet is for it to be introduced BEFORE the election.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
So you'd need to
Overcome a Tory majority
Overcome the Irish unionists
Get the SNP to shoot themselves in the head
Get this all rushed through Parliament
All before an election.0 -
Labour need about 50 seats from the Tories. It';s not like they have another choice. Or the Tories. If 2020 happens (as a UK Election) it's purely a Labour vs Tory fight.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....0 -
I doubt they could rope the SNP or Plaid into this, and Lab+LD+Grn for PR probably wouldn't win a majority, since a lot of Lab voters are opposed and in any case hardly anybody cares enough to vote for a bunch of people banging on about the voting system over people talking about the economy or whatever.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
Maybe they could pull it off in future with UKIP also in the mix, but you need a proper electoral-system failure of a general election first. I know, every FPTP election is an electoral-system failure, but that last one looks fine to most voters.0 -
You replied to a post asking what 2% chance leads to a majority Tory government backing PR. That 2% chance referred to PR being introduced before the next GERodCrosby said:
I never said before the election. Try to pay attention!Philip_Thompson said:
The bet is for it to be introduced BEFORE the election.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
So you'd need to
Overcome a Tory majority
Overcome the Irish unionists
Get the SNP to shoot themselves in the head
Get this all rushed through Parliament
All before an election.
0 -
RC Labour would do a deal with the LDs, Greens, SDLP before they deal with the SNP and while they may do a deal on more powers they would not on independence0
-
Nonsense. The SNP will always support voting reform, AMS and abolition of the Lords is a pretty simple movement. Do that and SNP will provide all the support needed. The Lords needs destroyed immediately.Philip_Thompson said:Also Rod you're mistakenly believing that the SNP would want voting reform this Parliament to be part of this extraordinary alliance. They don't. They want independence and have no reason to make this ludicrous alliance work. As we all know know it's in the SNP's interest to have the Tories in power. Why would they kick out their useful London opponents and be seen to be making Westminster work rather than be unworkable? Especially when this means sacrificing half their own seats now.
The SNP would find an excuse to kick this into the long grass.0 -
While Dave's slim majority provides a temporary illusion of unity on the right, is that really going to last through an EU referendum (with Dave campaigning pro-EU) and into 2020?RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
The knives really came out for dave over the past year and the right had a taste of what its like to be screwed over by FPTP - the assumption that PR would automatically favour the left has been called into question by a substantial chunk of the governing party.0 -
Doh!Dair said:
Labour need about 50 seats from the Tories. It';s not like they have another choice. Or the Tories. If 2020 happens (as a UK Election) it's purely a Labour vs Tory fight.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
50 seats brings them to parity with the Tories.
IN A HUNG PARLIAMENT controlled by the SNP...
See 7/5/15 for how that prospect went down with #JoeVoter
Labour now need 100 gains from the Tories for a majority, else see above...0 -
There is NO point in any deals without the SNP, it's a numbers game and SDLP + LD + Uncle Tom Cobbly isn't adding through to the 55+ MPs the SNP will provide in 2020 again.HYUFD said:RC Labour would do a deal with the LDs, Greens, SDLP before they deal with the SNP and while they may do a deal on more powers they would not on independence
0 -
Did I? Mere inconsequential detail in the overall scheme, then...RobD said:
You replied to a post asking what 2% chance leads to a majority Tory government backing PR. That 2% chance referred to PR being introduced before the next GERodCrosby said:
I never said before the election. Try to pay attention!Philip_Thompson said:
The bet is for it to be introduced BEFORE the election.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
So you'd need to
Overcome a Tory majority
Overcome the Irish unionists
Get the SNP to shoot themselves in the head
Get this all rushed through Parliament
All before an election.
Look at the BIG PICTURE for Labour.
(^_-)0 -
The polls need to show a majority for independence including the don't knows as "No" for it to be sure I think.
If there is one thing "Don't knows" do it is cling to nurse...
Mind you I think it'd pass given there if it was held again now. The red pawns have been truly smashed !0 -
2020RodCrosby said:
Doh!Dair said:
Labour need about 50 seats from the Tories. It';s not like they have another choice. Or the Tories. If 2020 happens (as a UK Election) it's purely a Labour vs Tory fight.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
50 seats brings them to parity with the Tories.
IN A HUNG PARLIAMENT controlled by the SNP...
See 7/5/15 for how that prospect went down with #JoeVoter
Labour now need 100 gains from the Tories for a majority, else see above...
"Some polls are showing Labour as far as 9% ahead, but considering the MOE, we still cannot be certain that is enough for a majority. The Labour leader has ruled out all deals with the SNP, and has promised to commit hari-kiri on live TV in the event of reneging on her promise..."
JoeVoter: "Tories, innit...?"0 -
Yes you did, you pay attention. Re-read the thread. The bet was before the election, then when you said a leftist pact I asked you "Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?" and you said "Higher". Press "Show previous quotes" and see for yourself.RodCrosby said:
I never said before the election. Try to pay attention!Philip_Thompson said:
The bet is for it to be introduced BEFORE the election.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
So you'd need to
Overcome a Tory majority
Overcome the Irish unionists
Get the SNP to shoot themselves in the head
Get this all rushed through Parliament
All before an election.
This is a losing bet. There is less than a 2% chance of this getting through Parliament before the next election.0 -
The pact would be before the election, obviously, dufus...Philip_Thompson said:
Yes you did, you pay attention. Re-read the thread. The bet was before the election, then when you said a leftist pact I asked you "Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?" and you said "Higher". Press "Show previous quotes" and see for yourself.RodCrosby said:
I never said before the election. Try to pay attention!Philip_Thompson said:
The bet is for it to be introduced BEFORE the election.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
So you'd need to
Overcome a Tory majority
Overcome the Irish unionists
Get the SNP to shoot themselves in the head
Get this all rushed through Parliament
All before an election.
This is a losing bet. There is less than a 2% chance of this getting through Parliament before the next election.0 -
Don't be naive.Dair said:
Nonsense. The SNP will always support voting reform, AMS and abolition of the Lords is a pretty simple movement. Do that and SNP will provide all the support needed. The Lords needs destroyed immediately.Philip_Thompson said:Also Rod you're mistakenly believing that the SNP would want voting reform this Parliament to be part of this extraordinary alliance. They don't. They want independence and have no reason to make this ludicrous alliance work. As we all know know it's in the SNP's interest to have the Tories in power. Why would they kick out their useful London opponents and be seen to be making Westminster work rather than be unworkable? Especially when this means sacrificing half their own seats now.
The SNP would find an excuse to kick this into the long grass.
Salmond and Sturgeon are interested in two things: What helps get a second indyref get a Yes vote; and what helps the SNP. Voting reform helps neither. It makes indyref less likely and it removes half the SNP's MPs.
Sure they'll mouth platitudes saying they support it, but actually taking action to eliminate half their MPs is a totally different matter. It is remarkably easy to kick into the long grass any action you're supposed to want but suddenly don't and neither Salmond nor Sturgeon will point a gun at their own temple and press the trigger.0 -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3075157/Yes-Ed-DID-spend-money-say-sorry-Miliband-explain-Labour-lost-badly-writes-former-minister-FRANK-FIELD.html
This man is so wasted on the backbenches. While all the lefties are still arguing even today, no Labour definitely didn't borrow too much money...out come all the charts, showing that yes debt did boom during the crash, a lot more that in comparison to Brown racking up of debt in the good times, but Frank is spot on and to the point...
"As Mr Miliband discovered when he appeared in the final party leaders’ TV Election challenge in Leeds, most voters think that the last Labour Government spent too much money.
They gave him a golden opportunity to put his hands up and say sorry.
What did he do? He flunked it. His successor cannot afford to make that mistake. Line one, page one of the next Labour leader’s first speech should be to say loud and clear: we spent too much money and we are sorry.
We borrowed too much money in the boom years."
He then goes on to make many sensible points about a range of policies.0 -
The pact would have to get it through Parliament and not just be spoken about before the election, obviously, dufus.RodCrosby said:
The pact would be before the election, obviously, dufus...Philip_Thompson said:
Yes you did, you pay attention. Re-read the thread. The bet was before the election, then when you said a leftist pact I asked you "Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?" and you said "Higher". Press "Show previous quotes" and see for yourself.RodCrosby said:
I never said before the election. Try to pay attention!Philip_Thompson said:
The bet is for it to be introduced BEFORE the election.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
So you'd need to
Overcome a Tory majority
Overcome the Irish unionists
Get the SNP to shoot themselves in the head
Get this all rushed through Parliament
All before an election.
This is a losing bet. There is less than a 2% chance of this getting through Parliament before the next election.
0 -
An electoral pact...Philip_Thompson said:
The pact would have to get it through Parliament and not just be spoken about before the election, obviously, dufus.RodCrosby said:
The pact would be before the election, obviously, dufus...Philip_Thompson said:
Yes you did, you pay attention. Re-read the thread. The bet was before the election, then when you said a leftist pact I asked you "Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?" and you said "Higher". Press "Show previous quotes" and see for yourself.RodCrosby said:
I never said before the election. Try to pay attention!Philip_Thompson said:
The bet is for it to be introduced BEFORE the election.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
So you'd need to
Overcome a Tory majority
Overcome the Irish unionists
Get the SNP to shoot themselves in the head
Get this all rushed through Parliament
All before an election.
This is a losing bet. There is less than a 2% chance of this getting through Parliament before the next election.
Hello, is there anyone at home?0 -
Welcome to PB, pedant central (you dufus!)RodCrosby said:
An electoral pact...Philip_Thompson said:
The pact would have to get it through Parliament and not just be spoken about before the election, obviously, dufus.RodCrosby said:
The pact would be before the election, obviously, dufus...Philip_Thompson said:
Yes you did, you pay attention. Re-read the thread. The bet was before the election, then when you said a leftist pact I asked you "Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?" and you said "Higher". Press "Show previous quotes" and see for yourself.RodCrosby said:
I never said before the election. Try to pay attention!Philip_Thompson said:
The bet is for it to be introduced BEFORE the election.RodCrosby said:
I said a pact at the 2020 election.Philip_Thompson said:
Fat chance. There'd need to be at least eight Tory by-elections lost by the Tories to give all opposition MPs a majority of one. That even assumes the DUP and UUP want PR, which they don't. So there has to be enough votes to bring down a Tory majority government and overcome the Unionists. Also it assumes all of the opposition MPs unite on doing this without a referendum.RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
No chance this can all happen. To many variables would all need to happen and each is already unlikely let alone all together.
Lab/Grn/LD/SNP/Plaid, etc
Otherwise, for Labour, it's the +100 seats or nothing strategy....
So you'd need to
Overcome a Tory majority
Overcome the Irish unionists
Get the SNP to shoot themselves in the head
Get this all rushed through Parliament
All before an election.
This is a losing bet. There is less than a 2% chance of this getting through Parliament before the next election.
Hello, is there anyone at home?
0 -
You never said that word at the time so why italicise it now other than to claim you forgot to say that? But that wouldn't answer the question.RodCrosby said:
An electoral pact...Philip_Thompson said:The pact would have to get it through Parliament and not just be spoken about before the election, obviously, dufus.
Hello, is there anyone at home?
We were talking about a bet made where he "backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1"Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
introduced in the UK before the next election
Introduced doesn't mean a pact for afterwards.0 -
Dair The Yes result amongst 16-26 year olds was only because of a because of a big Yes lead amongst 16-18 year olds, 18-24 year olds had a small No lead0
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I'm not responsible for the exuberant posts of other people!Philip_Thompson said:
You never said that word at the time so why italicise it now other than to claim you forgot to say that? But that wouldn't answer the question.RodCrosby said:
An electoral pact...Philip_Thompson said:The pact would have to get it through Parliament and not just be spoken about before the election, obviously, dufus.
Hello, is there anyone at home?
We were talking about a bet made where he "backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1"Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
introduced in the UK before the next election
Introduced doesn't mean a pact for afterwards.0 -
Pulpstar Depends how many gains Labour make and how much the LDs recover under, say, Tim Farron0
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The big open question for 2015 is what happens to the UKIP score after an EU referendum, assuming it happens. Assuming an "in" vote, are they defeated and fade away, or do they get a boost from all the resentful voters on the losing "out" side who reckon they were robbed by Cameron? And if it's "out", has their reason to exist disappeared, or can they run on Cameron's betrayal in subsequent negotiations?Pong said:
While Dave's slim majority provides a temporary illusion of unity on the right, is that really going to last through an EU referendum (with Dave campaigning pro-EU) and into 2020?RodCrosby said:
Higher.Philip_Thompson said:
Before the next election? You think that's as high as a 2% chance?RodCrosby said:
A leftist pact, under FPTP, to bring down the Tories in 2020, and immediately introduce PR.Philip_Thompson said:
What 2% situation leads to a majority Tory government backing PR?Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
It's not a 2% chance, it hasn't happened in centuries and while there is a majority Tory government is isn't on the table.
The knives really came out for dave over the past year and the right had a taste of what its like to be screwed over by FPTP - the assumption that PR would automatically favour the left has been called into question by a substantial chunk of the governing party.0 -
If they have any sense they'll go for Lamb. Differentiate.HYUFD said:Pulpstar Depends how many gains Labour make and how much the LDs recover under, say, Tim Farron
Mature, but not a coffin-dodger (sorry, Ming)
Anyone, other than a graduate from the All-Party School for Apparatchiks...0 -
Lamb is too tied to Clegg, I personally would prefer him to Farron, but from a tactical point of view the LDs have to run as far from Clegg and the Coalition as possible if they are going to regain some of those who voted for them in 2005 and 2010 or even in the eighties and nineties and hence some of their lost seats, Farron is their only choice on that score, night0
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Though you are responsible if you respond to them without clarifying you mean something different.RodCrosby said:
I'm not responsible for the exuberant posts of other people!Philip_Thompson said:
You never said that word at the time so why italicise it now other than to claim you forgot to say that? But that wouldn't answer the question.RodCrosby said:
An electoral pact...Philip_Thompson said:The pact would have to get it through Parliament and not just be spoken about before the election, obviously, dufus.
Hello, is there anyone at home?
We were talking about a bet made where he "backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1"Pong said:I just backed PR to be introduced in the UK before the next election @ 50/1
Not likely, but not 50/1 either.
introduced in the UK before the next election
Introduced doesn't mean a pact for afterwards.
Oh well, I guess you agree now then that the odds of electoral reform actually getting through Parliament before the next election is less than 50/1?
Afterwards is higher yes, but that's not the bet.0
This discussion has been closed.