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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Farage the 13/8 betting favourite to “win” tonight’s Challe

SystemSystem Posts: 12,604
edited April 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Farage the 13/8 betting favourite to “win” tonight’s Challengers’ Debate

It is perhaps an indication of how tonight’s event is being regarded is that there is going to be very little polling. Survation are doing a survey for the Mirror and as far as I know at the moment that is it.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    It's sad that Cameron isn't in the debate tonight. Should be there. Daft to step out.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ummm...

    @LadPolitics: We're 30 minutes to kick-off. They've all warmed up and are ready to go. Bet here http://t.co/KLuaM5kO7m #BBCDebate http://t.co/rtkLLPKo9d
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Jonathan said:

    It's sad that Cameron isn't in the debate tonight. Should be there. Daft to step out.

    Another 7 way? Not for me. I think the balance of programmes has been quite reasonable and a good deal better than it might have been. It's just a shame that no-one's got much to say.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Jonathan said:

    It's sad that Cameron isn't in the debate tonight. Should be there. Daft to step out.

    I wonder if the debates negotiations will be a repeat of the Alternative Vote referendum. The Conservatives performed very well in getting a tactical victory, but it ultimately proved a strategic mistake.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Here's hoping Leanne Wood goes for the Welsh language.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    JEO said:

    ultimately proved a strategic mistake.

    No

    AV is the worst electoral system ever devised by man. Winning that referendum was a National necessity, Country before Party, as always.
  • trubluetrublue Posts: 103
    Jonathan said:

    It's sad that Cameron isn't in the debate tonight. Should be there. Daft to step out.

    I don't worry much about tonight. Turning down the head-to-head debate with Miliband would have been the best chance of a gamechanger. With the polls stuck, that's looking the biggest mistake. Debates like tonight are a snooze fest with too many voices saying nothing at all.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited April 2015
    Evening all.

    Last chance to enter your predictions in the PB 2015 seat guessing game. Entries will close AFTER the debate tonight.

    http://show.nojam.com/a2sq/add.php
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,023
    Scott_P said:

    JEO said:

    ultimately proved a strategic mistake.

    No

    AV is the worst electoral system ever devised by man. Winning that referendum was a National necessity, Country before Party, as always.
    Agreed. I'm now in favour of STV. Not so much because I'm a Ukip supporter, but because I don't think it's good for a regional party like the SNP to benefit unfairly from FPTP.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Scott_P said:

    JEO said:

    ultimately proved a strategic mistake.

    No

    AV is the worst electoral system ever devised by man. Winning that referendum was a National necessity, Country before Party, as always.
    It's not as good as multi-member single transferable vote, but I think it's a lot better than First Past the Post. A good electoral system should encourage you to vote for those most representing your own views, rather than encourage you to vote tactically for the least worst of the two leaders.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,538
    I would love to see Farage go claws out for Ed. Rotherham, Janner, Mirror phone-hacking double-standards - whatever it takes to make Ed really, really lose it....

    UKIP need to get Labour's contemptuous treatment of it heartlands into play.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    JEO said:

    I think it's a lot better than First Past the Post.

    No

    You are wrong.

    But that's OK. Please read 3 years worth of back posts on this subject for more info...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That'd be a wowser
    MarqueeMark said:

    I would love to see Farage go claws out for Ed. Rotherham, Janner, Mirror phone-hacking double-standards - whatever it takes to make Ed really, really lose it....

    UKIP need to get Labour's contemptuous treatment of it heartlands into play.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,718
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    JEO said:

    ultimately proved a strategic mistake.

    No

    AV is the worst electoral system ever devised by man. Winning that referendum was a National necessity, Country before Party, as always.
    Agreed. I'm now in favour of STV. Not so much because I'm a Ukip supporter, but because I don't think it's good for a regional party like the SNP to benefit unfairly from FPTP.
    Or like the Tories. They're a regional party too, to all intents and purposes, and benefit hugely from FPTP.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @jonwalker121: Sorry, I have to tweet this: New #starwars trailer https://t.co/wL71WEILnW http://t.co/pIMCFK9uXK
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,383
    JEO said:

    Scott_P said:

    JEO said:

    ultimately proved a strategic mistake.

    No

    AV is the worst electoral system ever devised by man. Winning that referendum was a National necessity, Country before Party, as always.
    It's not as good as multi-member single transferable vote, but I think it's a lot better than First Past the Post. A good electoral system should encourage you to vote for those most representing your own views, rather than encourage you to vote tactically for the least worst of the two leaders.
    Except we vote for our local MP, not for the party leaders (unless you are (un?)lucky enough to live in their constituencies. That should be an important consideration, but sadly is not.

    And I am against any system that gives more power to the parties.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Just spoken to fox jr in Norwich South. He reckons 60/40 in favour of Labour over greens in terms of window posters. Seen a single LD one and a single Tory one. No UKIP.

    Fox poster survey verdict: Lab gain by a whisker.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    12-1 on Ed giving us reprise of "Hell Yes" which could prove to be his catchphrase gimmick,a bit like Brucie with "what do points make? Prizes".Hell Yes.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,023
    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    JEO said:

    ultimately proved a strategic mistake.

    No

    AV is the worst electoral system ever devised by man. Winning that referendum was a National necessity, Country before Party, as always.
    Agreed. I'm now in favour of STV. Not so much because I'm a Ukip supporter, but because I don't think it's good for a regional party like the SNP to benefit unfairly from FPTP.
    Or like the Tories. They're a regional party too, to all intents and purposes, and benefit hugely from FPTP.
    At least the Tories put up candidates in Scotland and get some votes. Perhaps the SNP should stand in England - by the sounds of it they may get a few votes.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,023
    Dan Hodges on Sky News is predicting a car crash for Ed.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    The lowering of expectations is in full flow. All Miliband has to do is step up to the podium without tripping over and he will have had an impressive night.

    Doubt the others will gang up on him as others have forecast. More likely to take the usual 'progressive alliance' crap and gang up on our Nige.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Dear me - Jo Brand in the PEB on C4 - "the NHS won't last another 5yrs under them because they're planning EXTREME CUTS"
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,276
    tlg86 said:

    Dan Hodges on Sky News is predicting a car crash for Ed.

    That's surprising.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    tlg86 said:

    Dan Hodges on Sky News is predicting a car crash for Ed.

    I hope if Miliband becomes PM he offers Dan Hodges a job.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    volcanopete said:

    12-1 on Ed giving us reprise of "Hell Yes" which could prove to be his catchphrase gimmick,a bit like Brucie with "what do points make? Prizes".Hell Yes.

    I thought "Hell yes" worth a quid; and also a couple on "Romanians". If Nigel doesn't say it then one of the others may bait him with it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,804
    edited April 2015
    Interesting that in the profile on Ed Fraser Nelson said the thing about him is that he's a thoroughly decent person.

    That's a very important thing in my opinion and quite a dividing line with Dave who I doubt many would say that about
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,023
    Sean_F said:

    tlg86 said:

    Dan Hodges on Sky News is predicting a car crash for Ed.

    That's surprising.
    It's like he's a caricature of himself. I don't things are going tremendously well for Labour, but nor do I think they are in a terrible position.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Plato said:

    Dear me - Jo Brand in the PEB on C4 - "the NHS won't last another 5yrs under them because they're planning EXTREME CUTS"

    5 years to save the NHS. It used to be 24 hours. Just shows what a Tory PM can do...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,383
    FPT:
    isam said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    isam said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    antifrank said:

    As a sign of how divorced the pb commentariat are from the rest of the country, I was just talking with one of my more senior partners (very switched on, very broad hinterland beyond her job) and mentioned in passing that there was another debate tonight.

    "Is there?", she said.

    It doesn't count cos Dave refused to turn up!
    Don't say he was scared of defending his record though.. "scared" is on the PBPC naughty list regardless of it's context
    Sam, this forces me to repeat the question I asked earlier: is our deal still on?
    Didn't see the earlier question and I don't like deals like that really so I am forgetting about it. You say too much that annoys me to let go!
    That's sad. It was probably to the benefit of PB that we ignore each other ...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Looking at the stage Farage is on the far right and Miliband on the far left .....

    Titter .... just saying .... :smile:
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    There's a Sun worm up for this debate

    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/election-debate-challenger/
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    tlg86 said:

    Dan Hodges on Sky News is predicting a car crash for Ed.

    There's a Fayed/Prince Philip/MI6 gag in there somewhere if anyone has a bit more imagination than I currently possess.

    Anyway, evening all. I won't be watching the debatette as I've got another 3 hours at the pleasure of First Great Western before I reach Penzance... whilst the newly-installed FGW wifi won't allow me to stream TV (the bandwidth is almost as thin as the business case for reprivatising East Coast) it should enable me to keep abreast of PB's objective commentary. It's almost as good as being there.

    Wiltshire and Somerset are surprisingly pretty in early evening April sunshine. Hell, yes.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,282
    Scott_P said:

    Plato said:

    Dear me - Jo Brand in the PEB on C4 - "the NHS won't last another 5yrs under them because they're planning EXTREME CUTS"

    5 years to save the NHS. It used to be 24 hours. Just shows what a Tory PM can do...
    Dave and Nick interviews afterwards you reckon?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,282
    edited April 2015
    Welsh voice too annoying

    Nige has a hair out of place!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,403
    "Are you thinking what we're thinking"
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Farage's suit is too large
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    Leanne doing her primary school teacher voice again,
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    MikeSmithson said:

    Farage's suit is too large

    And his hair needs a comb.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,538
    MikeSmithson said:

    Farage's suit is too large

    Or Farage is too small....
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Dair said:

    There's a Sun worm up for this debate

    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/election-debate-challenger/

    Much appreciated.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,282
    edited April 2015
    MikeSmithson said:

    Farage's suit is too large

    too lairy? or too big?!!

    He is the only one who audibly sounds like a normal English person, I would have thought that will be beg


    An Aussie, A Scot, A Taff and Ed Miliband
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,403
    Roger said:

    Interesting that in the profile on Ed Fraser Nelson said the thing about him is that he's a thoroughly decent person.

    That's a very important thing in my opinion and quite a dividing line with Dave who I doubt many would say that about

    I know people who have met the Chancellor and say that he is a thoroughly decent person and an all around good man. He keeps his family out of politics, doesn't try and be something he is not by eating pasties or bacon sandwiches and apparently he does listen to outside ideas.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    edited April 2015
    Buzzword Bingo- fracking mentioned already.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    Green leader basically saying Caroline Lucas is Prime Minister..
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,908
    Promising start. Could be gang up on the absent
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2015
    Fracking !! Kerching .... :smiley:

    Half an upper for Mrs JackW
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    MarqueeMark said:

    I would love to see Farage go claws out for Ed. Rotherham, Janner, Mirror phone-hacking double-standards - whatever it takes to make Ed really, really lose it....

    UKIP need to get Labour's contemptuous treatment of it heartlands into play.

    Everyone will be play acting. They will all care care care and care again etc...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,488
    JosiasJessop said:

    JEO said:

    Scott_P said:

    JEO said:

    ultimately proved a strategic mistake.

    No

    AV is the worst electoral system ever devised by man. Winning that referendum was a National necessity, Country before Party, as always.
    It's not as good as multi-member single transferable vote, but I think it's a lot better than First Past the Post. A good electoral system should encourage you to vote for those most representing your own views, rather than encourage you to vote tactically for the least worst of the two leaders.
    Except we vote for our local MP, not for the party leaders (unless you are (un?)lucky enough to live in their constituencies. That should be an important consideration, but sadly is not.

    And I am against any system that gives more power to the parties.
    My view exactly. Any system that tries to introduce 'fairness' for parties is simply handing them more power and we should be trying to find ways to decrease their power not increase it. I am all for trying to make the votes within constituencies fairer with transferable votes but not at the cost of giving more power to parties nor removing the constituency link.
  • initforthemoneyinitforthemoney Posts: 736
    Q1 should be a slam dunk for Farage
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JackW said:

    Fracking !! Kerching .... :smiley:

    "Fully costed" too.
  • TykeTyke Posts: 18
    If you are drinking on 'Progressive' then you should be on he floor now.
  • SaltireSaltire Posts: 525
    The BBC news channel has a worm on it from some undecided voters. So far not many highs or lows but it is early yet...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,403
    foxinsoxuk said:

    JackW said:

    Fracking !! Kerching .... :smiley:

    "Fully costed" too.
    Money in the bank!
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Better from Ed - A decent smile not a grin.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    JEO said:

    Scott_P said:

    JEO said:

    ultimately proved a strategic mistake.

    No

    AV is the worst electoral system ever devised by man. Winning that referendum was a National necessity, Country before Party, as always.
    It's not as good as multi-member single transferable vote, but I think it's a lot better than First Past the Post. A good electoral system should encourage you to vote for those most representing your own views, rather than encourage you to vote tactically for the least worst of the two leaders.
    Except we vote for our local MP, not for the party leaders (unless you are (un?)lucky enough to live in their constituencies. That should be an important consideration, but sadly is not.

    And I am against any system that gives more power to the parties.
    My view exactly. Any system that tries to introduce 'fairness' for parties is simply handing them more power and we should be trying to find ways to decrease their power not increase it. I am all for trying to make the votes within constituencies fairer with transferable votes but not at the cost of giving more power to parties nor removing the constituency link.
    Somewhere on the way in order to do this you have to create constituencies. How fair to anyone are the constituency boundaries and the rules that create them. (Bearing in mind the basis is local govt which is a mess.)
  • SaltireSaltire Posts: 525
    Over/under on Ed mentioning Dave? 20,30,40 or more??
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,445
    Plato said:

    Dear me - Jo Brand in the PEB on C4 - "the NHS won't last another 5yrs under them because they're planning EXTREME CUTS"

    I presume it was recorded before the Tories found the magic money tree around the back of #10 and promised £8bn extra.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,908
    Farage has much to gain by attacking Cameron, who can't answer back. Huge tactical error from Cameron.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,282
    UKIP hooligans in the house!
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    Farage got applause! Is this thing BBC-run or not?!
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Farage bombing on the worm
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    BenM said:

    Farage bombing on the worm

    Where are you seeing it?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,403
    Everyone but Nigel wants to reduce the deficit by increasing spending. Okay then. That makes a lot of sense. Honestly it is a joke, how can people take politicians seriously when one minute they say they want to cut the deficit and reduce the debt burden, but then in the very next sentence talk about increasing spending. Surely I can't be the only one to notice this.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Please stop saying "look".
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    MaxPB said:

    Everyone but Nigel wants to reduce the deficit by increasing spending. Okay then. That makes a lot of sense. Honestly it is a joke, how can people take politicians seriously when one minute they say they want to cut the deficit and reduce the debt burden, but then in the very next sentence talk about increasing spending. Surely I can't be the only one to notice this.

    Keynes showed why.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I think he caught that habit from Tony.
    Danny565 said:

    Please stop saying "look".

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Boring !
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2015
    Thought Farage had the best opening. Straight for the Blue Labour vote. Ms PC the worst.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Telegraph has a great cartoon on who the winner actually is

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03270/carousel_3270380b.jpg
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Aa predicted..five fleas fighting on the back of an Elephant..absolutely pathetic
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,488
    Flightpath said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    JEO said:

    Scott_P said:

    JEO said:

    ultimately proved a strategic mistake.

    No

    AV is the worst electoral system ever devised by man. Winning that referendum was a National necessity, Country before Party, as always.
    It's not as good as multi-member single transferable vote, but I think it's a lot better than First Past the Post. A good electoral system should encourage you to vote for those most representing your own views, rather than encourage you to vote tactically for the least worst of the two leaders.
    Except we vote for our local MP, not for the party leaders (unless you are (un?)lucky enough to live in their constituencies. That should be an important consideration, but sadly is not.

    And I am against any system that gives more power to the parties.
    My view exactly. Any system that tries to introduce 'fairness' for parties is simply handing them more power and we should be trying to find ways to decrease their power not increase it. I am all for trying to make the votes within constituencies fairer with transferable votes but not at the cost of giving more power to parties nor removing the constituency link.
    Somewhere on the way in order to do this you have to create constituencies. How fair to anyone are the constituency boundaries and the rules that create them. (Bearing in mind the basis is local govt which is a mess.)
    I agree with you (please don't fall off a chair :-) ). I think there should be a complete overhaul of the boundaries as was proposed at the beginning of this Parliament or even more so. But it should be done with a weather eye to the principle of individual constituency representatives rather than party 'fairness'.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Wry smile from Sturgeon at Farage saying end Barnett formula. A few cheers from the audience.

    Bennet just promised to not just end tuition fees, but also to cancel existing ones. Might get Fox jr's vote...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,383
    MaxPB said:

    Everyone but Nigel wants to reduce the deficit by increasing spending. Okay then. That makes a lot of sense. Honestly it is a joke, how can people take politicians seriously when one minute they say they want to cut the deficit and reduce the debt burden, but then in the very next sentence talk about increasing spending. Surely I can't be the only one to notice this.

    Surely they are talking about increasing spending only in select areas. It is perfectly possible to do that and reduce the deficit, but you will probably have to decrease spending elsewhere.

    It's still disingenuous, though.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    It's strange that Miliband is arguing with Farage and not the others on this question.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Ed seems quite alive and engaging with the debate (rather than the staccato soundbites he threw out last time), but I fear his message just isn't clear/attractive enough.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,870
    MaxPB said:

    Everyone but Nigel wants to reduce the deficit by increasing spending. Okay then. That makes a lot of sense. Honestly it is a joke, how can people take politicians seriously when one minute they say they want to cut the deficit and reduce the debt burden, but then in the very next sentence talk about increasing spending. Surely I can't be the only one to notice this.

    TBF: there is an active Keynesian view - espoused by @Socrates among others - that claims that cutting the deficit is best achieved through growing the economy. And that growing the economy requires increased government spending.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Big applause and huge worm for Sturgeon attack on Cameron's absence.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,023
    Artist said:

    It's strange that Miliband is arguing with Farage and not the others on this question.

    It's because in his mind Farage is the closest thing to Cameron and that's who he'd really like to attack.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_P said:

    JEO said:

    ultimately proved a strategic mistake.

    No

    AV is the worst electoral system ever devised by man. Winning that referendum was a National necessity, Country before Party, as always.
    AV works in Australia. It's better than any form of PR.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,804
    Well there's only one loser. What an arrogant clown Cameron is.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,383
    Saltire said:

    The BBC news channel has a worm on it from some undecided voters. So far not many highs or lows but it is early yet...

    The worms should be ignored, for a multitude of reasons.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    All Miliband is doing by slating Farage's economic plans as on a par with Cameron's is elevating Farage's plans as Cameron and Co are trusted more on the economy.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Can Ed please just take a bit of Nicola's backbone.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,809
    Five attacks on Cameron so far for not being there - in 17 minutes.

    I did predict this would happen on here last week.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Arguing with other left wingers over Evil Tories isn't going to get EdM anywhere. I think he's wasting valuable airtime here.
    Danny565 said:

    Ed seems quite alive and engaging with the debate (rather than the staccato soundbites he threw out last time), but I fear his message just isn't clear/attractive enough.

  • SaltireSaltire Posts: 525
    First time the worm on the BBC moves is when Sturgeon attacks Cameron for not being there. Note no mention of Clegg. The Libdems are in danger if being entirely forgotten about....
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Plato said:

    Dear me - Jo Brand in the PEB on C4 - "the NHS won't last another 5yrs under them because they're planning EXTREME CUTS"

    I presume it was recorded before the Tories found the magic money tree around the back of #10 and promised £8bn extra.
    It may just reflect realistic expectations: many Tory supporters may hope and expect that they are lying, because it's an unfunded deficit increasing last-minute (etc. etc.) pledge; many Tory opponents fear and expect they're lying because it's an unfunded desperate last minute pledge, and of course lying about the NHS is what the Tories do in election campaigns.

    Something there for everyone.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    BenM said:

    MaxPB said:

    Everyone but Nigel wants to reduce the deficit by increasing spending. Okay then. That makes a lot of sense. Honestly it is a joke, how can people take politicians seriously when one minute they say they want to cut the deficit and reduce the debt burden, but then in the very next sentence talk about increasing spending. Surely I can't be the only one to notice this.

    Keynes showed why.
    Keynes said to run a surplus when the economy was growing so as to be able to run a deficit when the economy in recession.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Audience clapping at good old fashioned left wing attacks on austerity.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,282
    Good line from Sturgeon re "not a big enough difference between Ed and Dave" she is pretty good
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,602
    What utter dross. Back to the cricket.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,023
    It does feel a bit more relaxed and genuine tonight. Seven is definitely too many for a decent debate.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,908
    Crikey. I'd vote for Bessie McYessie.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Flightpath said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    JEO said:

    Scott_P said:

    JEO said:

    ultimately proved a strategic mistake.

    No

    AV is the worst electoral system ever devised by man. Winning that referendum was a National necessity, Country before Party, as always.
    It's not as good as multi-member single transferable vote, but I think it's a lot better than First Past the Post. A good electoral system should encourage you to vote for those most representing your own views, rather than encourage you to vote tactically for the least worst of the two leaders.
    Except we vote for our local MP, not for the party leaders (unless you are (un?)lucky enough to live in their constituencies. That should be an important consideration, but sadly is not.

    And I am against any system that gives more power to the parties.
    My view exactly. Any system that tries to introduce 'fairness' for parties is simply handing them more power and we should be trying to find ways to decrease their power not increase it. I am all for trying to make the votes within constituencies fairer with transferable votes but not at the cost of giving more power to parties nor removing the constituency link.
    Somewhere on the way in order to do this you have to create constituencies. How fair to anyone are the constituency boundaries and the rules that create them. (Bearing in mind the basis is local govt which is a mess.)
    I agree with you (please don't fall off a chair :-) ). I think there should be a complete overhaul of the boundaries as was proposed at the beginning of this Parliament or even more so. But it should be done with a weather eye to the principle of individual constituency representatives rather than party 'fairness'.
    What's "representative" about a constituency MP, when at the past two elections (and probably this one), the majority of voters didn't get one they voted for?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Did Ed just say "I want to break up the country"...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    BenM said:

    MaxPB said:

    Everyone but Nigel wants to reduce the deficit by increasing spending. Okay then. That makes a lot of sense. Honestly it is a joke, how can people take politicians seriously when one minute they say they want to cut the deficit and reduce the debt burden, but then in the very next sentence talk about increasing spending. Surely I can't be the only one to notice this.

    Keynes showed why.
    No he didn't. Keynes categorically never supported increasing all spending all the time.

    Keynes backed countercyclical spending which we have. The country is currently growing at out long term growth rate so we are in the boom part of our cycle, we should be saving for the next recession. Instead we're running a major deficit during a boom - Keynes would never have suggested increasing spending now.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,809
    Sturgeon more popular than Ed in London - so presumably a lot, lot, lot more popular in Scotland.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    Danny565 said:

    Did Ed just say "I want to break up the country"...

    Yes. And Dimbleby is getting 'Natalie' and 'Nicola' mixed up...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,403
    BenM said:

    MaxPB said:

    Everyone but Nigel wants to reduce the deficit by increasing spending. Okay then. That makes a lot of sense. Honestly it is a joke, how can people take politicians seriously when one minute they say they want to cut the deficit and reduce the debt burden, but then in the very next sentence talk about increasing spending. Surely I can't be the only one to notice this.

    Keynes showed why.
    No. He. Didn't.

    This country is not going to magically grow at 2% above trend rate because of a bit of extra spending on benefits. There is no point in spending to increase economic capacity when we already such low productivity, it would just cause long term deflation or stagflation. Keynes works in a post-war setting where the economic base is very low and we need rapid expansion of infrastructure and services. In a steady state economy like ours it is just going to blow the budget for possibly 0.5% GDP growth because it will all get pissed away in benefits and welfare.

    Question, do you honestly believe that the UK has the capacity to grow at 4-5% every year on a volume measure at market price, with nominal growth at 6-7%? I don't ever see that with our without fiscal stimulus. Keynes only works to reduce debt levels and the deficit when there is a low base. We don't have a low base. We have a very high base, some would say we are about to head into the end of the current cycle, I just hope the economy is well prepared enough to withstand another shock. We should at least go into a normal crisis with a small housing crash and services downturn. There is little else to strip away.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I don't think EdM is winning against Ms Sturgeon, at all. Ms Greenies has cornered him as well. I can see her picking up the lefty votes floating about.
    MikeL said:

    Sturgeon more popular than Ed in London - so presumably a lot, lot, lot more popular in Scotland.

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