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RT @philipjcowley: "Labour will replace the House of Lords with a Senate of the Nations and Regions" (p.69). Good luck with that one…
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Yay for electoral reform0
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Oh dear and I thought it was all over after last night's YouGov - when is the next blind panic due from the wets?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Repost from end of prev thread:
I have never before done as much as skim-read a Labour GE manifesto.
But I have speed-read this one, and I have to say, as someone who is very much a "One Nation Tory", I find it hard to see much in it that scares the horses, and much of which I approve. Indeed, there are many things I know will simply not be in the Tory manifesto.
I do find Ed is cutting an increasingly credible figure as prospective PM, in the face of the media and political onslaught against him, far more than Dave is with his "can't be arsed" coasting which has infuriated me for at least the past 6 years as regular PBers will know.
Given that some of the few Tory announcements made already either unenthuse me or I disagree with them as priorities, I do increasingly wonder whether 5 years of Labour accompanied by a Boris-led renewal and reunion of the centre-right (patently impossible under Cameron) might be in the best interests of everyone?
And with that in mind, perhaps a Labour Government not in hock to the nationalists would be preferable.
Gosh, me contemplating voting Labour. What is the world coming to?
Dave - you need to do something very special tomorrow and beyond. You are failing to excite and enthuse me, so god knows what message you're sending to the key voters you need to retain/win over!0 -
House of Lords reform is on the SNP agenda. Sop to the nats there.
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I agree with Nick.0
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Given that Tory leads are rarer then Hen's teeth with Populus, I'd say it's a pretty good poll for them.TheScreamingEagles said:
ICM and Ashcroft will be interesting - is there another Com-Res due this week?0 -
@paulwaugh: Paul Johnson IFS:'no additional clarity' from Lab today on tax/spend."We literally wd not know what we're voting for if we voted for Labour"0
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Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB
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RT @philipjcowley: "Labour will replace the House of Lords with a Senate of the Nations and Regions" (p.69). Good luck with that one...
12:58 PM - 13 Apr 2015
I can't wait till the whole of southern England gets 'gerrymandered' into a couple of seats
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No EU referendum promise in the Labour manifesto: isam owes me £25.
I feel (almost!) embarrassed at winning such a no-brainer of a bet.0 -
Populus do like to keep changing their methodology.
Does this gender shenanigans have any effect on VI ?0 -
I fear that 'nations and regions' is unsubtle code for carving England up into regions, which would be utterly vile.0
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@nickdebois: Interesting that yesterday's much vaunted £7.5bn from tax avoidance isn't even in Lab manifesto.0
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Nick Eardley @nickeardley 4m4 minutes ago
Line up for BBC debate on Thursday announced (left- right): Miliband, Wood, Bennett, Sturgeon, Farage0 -
Fair dos! Well doneRichard_Nabavi said:No EU referendum promise in the Labour manifesto: isam owes me £25.
I feel (almost!) embarrassed at winning such a no-brainer of a bet.
Send me your bank details and I will transfer dough
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One Tory-shire, 1,000 Labour Statelets...Morris_Dancer said:I fear that 'nations and regions' is unsubtle code for carving England up into regions, which would be utterly vile.
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I'm hopeful we will get ComRes this week.Greenwich_Floater said:
Given that Tory leads are rarer then Hen's teeth with Populus, I'd say it's a pretty good poll for them.TheScreamingEagles said:
ICM and Ashcroft will be interesting - is there another Com-Res due this week?
But we're definitely getting ICM, Lord A today and Ipsos Mori later on this week0 -
Interesting change - I'd have thought it should benefit Labour a tad but it hasn't done so in today's poll. Maybe 'wimmin' are trending blueTheScreamingEagles said: 0 -
Independence for the Kingdom Of East Anglia! Forth Wuffingas!Morris_Dancer said:I fear that 'nations and regions' is unsubtle code for carving England up into regions, which would be utterly vile.
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Scottish certain to vote @ 70%.
I'm hoping these Nats do show up !0 -
Labour manifesto:
British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies will be required to produce publicly available registries of the real owners of companies based there.
How, exactly?0 -
Some real money starting to appear on the betfair next PM market, but the odds still very skewed to DC.
I'd have it down as something like;
EdM 66%
DC 32%
Someone else 2%
What probabilities do the other serious punters assign?0 -
I'll be happy if you make a donation to MSF:isam said:
Fair dos! Well doneRichard_Nabavi said:No EU referendum promise in the Labour manifesto: isam owes me £25.
I feel (almost!) embarrassed at winning such a no-brainer of a bet.
Send me your bank details and I will transfer dough
www.msf.org.uk
0 -
ABC Co. Ltd is a 100% owned subsidiary of XYZ Co of Lichtenstein.CarlottaVance said:Labour manifesto:
British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies will be required to produce publicly available registries of the real owners of companies based there.
How, exactly?
Any the wiser?
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No doubt you'd use Anglo-Saxon language to describe the new Heptarchy ...Morris_Dancer said:I fear that 'nations and regions' is unsubtle code for carving England up into regions, which would be utterly vile.
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Sturgeon has had three debates since the last one, and at times the questioning has been downright hostile. She has been the target in most of them.Artist said:Nick Eardley @nickeardley 4m4 minutes ago
Line up for BBC debate on Thursday announced (left- right): Miliband, Wood, Bennett, Sturgeon, Farage
Also Murphy's quiet/preachy/angry tones are enough to wind anyone up in a way that Miliband isn't.
She'll be looking forward to this debate I suspect.0 -
I couldn't agree more (though I would never dream of voting Labour).Bob__Sykes said:Repost from end of prev thread:
I have never before done as much as skim-read a Labour GE manifesto.
But I have speed-read this one, and I have to say, as someone who is very much a "One Nation Tory", I find it hard to see much in it that scares the horses, and much of which I approve. Indeed, there are many things I know will simply not be in the Tory manifesto.
I do find Ed is cutting an increasingly credible figure as prospective PM, in the face of the media and political onslaught against him, far more than Dave is with his "can't be arsed" coasting which has infuriated me for at least the past 6 years as regular PBers will know.
Given that some of the few Tory announcements made already either unenthuse me or I disagree with them as priorities, I do increasingly wonder whether 5 years of Labour accompanied by a Boris-led renewal and reunion of the centre-right (patently impossible under Cameron) might be in the best interests of everyone?
And with that in mind, perhaps a Labour Government not in hock to the nationalists would be preferable.
Gosh, me contemplating voting Labour. What is the world coming to?
Dave - you need to do something very special tomorrow and beyond. You are failing to excite and enthuse me, so god knows what message you're sending to the key voters you need to retain/win over!
Having left the UK some years ago I've been observing the run up to this election with a detached fascination. The country is undoubtedly sleepwalking into a Miliband-led government. One can only hope that when the Right is reunited, under Boris or whoever, there is a country left to govern.
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Curses of the new thread:
12:14PM
ydoethur said:
» show previous quotes
Cyclefree said:
Teaching British history and the arguments of political thinkers and writers like Locke, Hobbes, Mill, Wilkes, Paine, Burke and Orwell would do far more.
Not sure Wilkes or Paine are good examples - neither were exactly perfectly behaved and Paine in particular had a bit of a penchant for violence and terrorism. Locke, Mill (and Bentham) were both very arrogant, but neither said anything new or meaningful. Burke might be a better example - but at the same time, he was prone to angry outbursts that might not exactly encourage rational thought.
As for Enlightenment values - I teach the French Revolution and Soviet Russia. They are both based on those values and they are both damning indictments of the logical results of them. As a result the idea of teaching 'values' leaves me fairly uneasy.
What I would rather see is a commitment to uphold and promote the value of democracy and the rule of law. I'm happy to go with that because it's (a) simple to understand and (b) allows for some flexibility as the law changes.
In response to ydoethur:
I wasn't suggesting teaching them as exemplars of moral behaviour but I do think that to understand why we think the way we do we need to understand what people in our past have said, why they said it and how those ideas have developed and been taken up by others.
Re Enlightenment ideasI think the Russian revolution is an example of a reaction to Western liberalism rather than being based on its concepts. I would say the same about the French revolution as well. France is one country where the concept of liberalism as we understand it here is not really understood at all.
Personally I think the ideas that developed from the time of the Civil War onwards and in the 18th century (based on earlier ideas of course) and which were taken up, in part, by the American revolutionaries are tremendously interesting and, IMO, essential to an understanding of British history and politics, as well as European and other history, and where we are today.0 -
Mr. Carnyx, I'd view such an arrangement with the same fondness with which I would welcome a prolonged bout of violent diarrhoea.0
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Pulpstar said:
Sturgeon has had three debates since the last one, and at times the questioning has been downright hostile. She has been the target in most of them.Artist said:Nick Eardley @nickeardley 4m4 minutes ago
Line up for BBC debate on Thursday announced (left- right): Miliband, Wood, Bennett, Sturgeon, Farage
Also Murphy's quiet/preachy/angry tones are enough to wind anyone up in a way that Miliband isn't.
She'll be looking forward to this debate I suspect.
Another thing: Mr Murphy was saying at the last debate that Labour would not make any cuts [edit: in Scotland, IIRC]. To use his own favoured fitba metaphor, it's now not so wee an open goal just waiting for Ms Sturgeon ...
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Ordinary polls for Labour so far today (TNS Scotland and Populus).
ICM is the big one today - I'm nervous - are you?0 -
Is an appealing a prospect as receiving a handjob from Edward ScissorhandsMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Carnyx, I'd view such an arrangement with the same fondness with which I would welcome a prolonged bout of violent diarrhoea.
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Sensible regions, with some sort of foundation in the shape of the local economy and culture would be great (in my view, I know you disagree), but if you read other parts of the manifesto there is reference to "city and county regions", so it looks like it could be a real dog's breakfast.Morris_Dancer said:I fear that 'nations and regions' is unsubtle code for carving England up into regions, which would be utterly vile.
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Excellent charity, Richard.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'll be happy if you make a donation to MSF:isam said:
Fair dos! Well doneRichard_Nabavi said:No EU referendum promise in the Labour manifesto: isam owes me £25.
I feel (almost!) embarrassed at winning such a no-brainer of a bet.
Send me your bank details and I will transfer dough
www.msf.org.uk0 -
I'm more looking forward to this week's Ipsos Morimurali_s said:Ordinary polls for Labour so far today (TNS Scotland and Populus).
ICM is the big one today - I'm nervous - are you?
If Ed has made progress on the leader ratings then it should show up in the gold standard of leader ratings.0 -
Mr. Eagles, I was very disappointed when I realised I had to cut that line from Temple [too modern], much as the line 'the sky was bluer than a drowning smurf' is delightful but doesn't really fit fantasy.
Mr. Me, a dog's breakfast? You're too kind, unless you refer to a dog's breakfast after it's passed through the dog's digestive system.0 -
I make 432/1289 = 33.51% by the way.
Unless that itself is a rounded figure from 431.81+...0 -
House of Lords being reformed is a perennial manifesto promise, but "A Senate of the Nations and Regions" is an interesting approach that could potentially provide a framework to solve current unresolved constitutional issues.
Still, I really dislike the idea of an "English Devolution Act". I'm pretty fundamentally opposed to localism and the additional layers of bureaucracy involved. I feel its often used as a backdoor way to entrench right-wing values. For example, look at how the Tories claim localism... then freeze council budgets and issue diktats from up-high. That's how I feel "localism" ends up working in practice.0 -
Richard_Nabavi said:
I'll be happy if you make a donation to MSF:isam said:
Fair dos! Well doneRichard_Nabavi said:No EU referendum promise in the Labour manifesto: isam owes me £25.
I feel (almost!) embarrassed at winning such a no-brainer of a bet.
Send me your bank details and I will transfer dough
www.msf.org.ukRichard_Nabavi said:
I'll be happy if you make a donation to MSF:isam said:
Fair dos! Well doneRichard_Nabavi said:No EU referendum promise in the Labour manifesto: isam owes me £25.
I feel (almost!) embarrassed at winning such a no-brainer of a bet.
Send me your bank details and I will transfer dough
www.msf.org.uk
There you go. All the best
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Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 2 mins2 minutes ago
Umunna slapdown for Jim Murphy: "The leader of the Scottish Labour Party will not be in charge of the UK budget"
Not good for labour north of the border0 -
ICM hint sounds like a juicy Tory lead - 3 points? Impossible to guess Ashcroft!0
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It is almost like Labour have given up on Scotland.Slackbladder said:Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 2 mins2 minutes ago
Umunna slapdown for Jim Murphy: "The leader of the Scottish Labour Party will not be in charge of the UK budget"
Not good for labour north of the border0 -
It depends on who choses the regions. My good friend Mr G Mander could be called in to redistrict them.OblitusSumMe said:
Sensible regions, with some sort of foundation in the shape of the local economy and culture would be great (in my view, I know you disagree), but if you read other parts of the manifesto there is reference to "city and county regions", so it looks like it could be a real dog's breakfast.Morris_Dancer said:I fear that 'nations and regions' is unsubtle code for carving England up into regions, which would be utterly vile.
Personally I always have grave suspicions about this sort of thing. Labour rigged the devolution referenda to ensure both Scotland and Wales devolved - with the aim of Labour voters in Glasgow and the Valleys ensuring that Labour remained in control of the two countries for ever. (Which was also why Durham became Unitary - the old pit-villages on the East coast overriding the more conservative west of the county.)
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I read it as a Labour lead, Mike and yourself read it as a Tory lead.NickPalmer said:ICM hint sounds like a juicy Tory lead - 3 points? Impossible to guess Ashcroft!
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Labour manifesto (p 40):
"invest £2.5 billion more that (sic) the Conservatives to recruit 8,000 more GPs, 20,000 more nurses and 3,000 more midwives"
On top of the Tory £8bn/year? That's expensive
http://www.labour.org.uk/page/-/BritainCanBeBetter-TheLabourPartyManifesto2015.pdf0 -
We'll recruit 1,000 more proofreaders than the Conservatives.Millsy said:Labour manifesto (p 40):
"invest £2.5 billion more that (sic) the Conservatives to recruit 8,000 more GPs, 20,000 more nurses and 3,000 more midwives"
On top of the Tory £8bn/year? That's expensive
http://www.labour.org.uk/page/-/BritainCanBeBetter-TheLabourPartyManifesto2015.pdf
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England already has regions set up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NUTS_of_the_United_Kingdom . What the probability that these will be used by Labour to harmonise UK/ EU facilities.0
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They are notionally subject to the supremacy of the Westminster Parliament and the Colonial Laws Validity Act 1865. Nevertheless, it would be a grave, and perhaps unconstitutional interference with the overseas territories' autonomy to pass laws on a matter as trifling as the administration of trusts. What Labour haven't realised is that much property which is held on trust in certain overseas territories does not have a beneficial owner, so such a register is in many ways pointless. Furthermore, the Recognition of Trusts Act 1987 allows an Englishman to settle English property on such trusts for exclusively English purposes.CarlottaVance said:Labour manifesto:
British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies will be required to produce publicly available registries of the real owners of companies based there.
How, exactly?0 -
You're both applying reverse psychology to what you want the result to be.TheScreamingEagles said:
I read it as a Labour lead, Mike and yourself read it as a Tory lead.NickPalmer said:ICM hint sounds like a juicy Tory lead - 3 points? Impossible to guess Ashcroft!
The simple truth is, we don't know.0 -
what time is ICM likely to come outTheScreamingEagles said:
I read it as a Labour lead, Mike and yourself read it as a Tory lead.NickPalmer said:ICM hint sounds like a juicy Tory lead - 3 points? Impossible to guess Ashcroft!
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The Labour Manifesto has one very interesting feature: the fact that the opening page - even before Ed's foreword - is about the 'Budget Responsibility Lock'.
Leaving aside the question of how credible this is, it is interesting because it demonstrates that Labour think that the perception that they are fiscally irresponsible is their biggest weakness. In other words, Osborne has suceeded in moving the debate onto precisely the area that Labour don't want. It's very much at odds with their 'core vote' strategy - many Labour supporters will I think be bemused by the emphasis on the deficit - and of course also very much plays into the hands of the SNP and other parties of profligacy trying to poach votes from Labour's left.
One thought does strike me: that page might be a last-minute addition. It's certainly very odd in terms of the structure of the document as a whole.
Incidentally, in 2010 when Osborne introduced the OBR, Labour supporters were on here in droves rubbishing it. I predicted then exactly what has happened: that Labour would end up relying on the OBR in an attempt to gain some credibility on the economy. IIRC, Hopi Sen was the only Labour supporter at the time who got it.0 -
Bob__Sykes said:
Repost from end of prev thread:
I have never before done as much as skim-read a Labour GE manifesto.
But I have speed-read this one, and I have to say, as someone who is very much a "One Nation Tory", I find it hard to see much in it that scares the horses, and much of which I approve. Indeed, there are many things I know will simply not be in the Tory manifesto.
I do find Ed is cutting an increasingly credible figure as prospective PM, in the face of the media and political onslaught against him, far more than Dave is with his "can't be arsed" coasting which has infuriated me for at least the past 6 years as regular PBers will know.
Given that some of the few Tory announcements made already either unenthuse me or I disagree with them as priorities, I do increasingly wonder whether 5 years of Labour accompanied by a Boris-led renewal and reunion of the centre-right (patently impossible under Cameron) might be in the best interests of everyone?
And with that in mind, perhaps a Labour Government not in hock to the nationalists would be preferable.
Gosh, me contemplating voting Labour. What is the world coming to?
Dave - you need to do something very special tomorrow and beyond. You are failing to excite and enthuse me, so god knows what message you're sending to the key voters you need to retain/win over!
(Also a repost...actually in reply to the one about tpries borrowing more than Lab etc etc zzz)
They inherited a £156bn deficit. In order to not borrow as much as Labour, they would have had to cut this by ~75% more or less immediately.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that you would not have been cheering the cuts this would have entailed.
Instead they have cut the deficit by 40-odd%, more in terms of Debt:GDP ratio, it is still falling and furthermore they have got the economy growing nicely again.
You are, I contend, one of those types on internet forums who pose as a supporter of X, who is now mysteriously in the process of being persuaded by Y, when Y is in fact what you have supported for some time.
Yawn0 -
Mr. Jonnie, gerrymandering the UK constitutional settlement in line with EU thinking?
Enormo-haddock, prepare thyselves for grievous battle!0 -
Don't know.kjohnw said:
what time is it likely to come outTheScreamingEagles said:
I read it as a Labour lead, Mike and yourself read it as a Tory lead.NickPalmer said:ICM hint sounds like a juicy Tory lead - 3 points? Impossible to guess Ashcroft!
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Great thanks - you are a gent!isam said:
There you go. All the best
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The SNP will be poring all over the Labour Manifesto.Richard_Nabavi said:The Labour Manifesto has one very interesting feature: the fact that the opening page - even before Ed's foreword - is about the 'Budget Responsibility Lock'.
Leaving aside the question of how credible this is, it is interesting because it demonstrates that Labour think that the perception that they are fiscally irresponsible is their biggest weakness. In other words, Osborne has suceeded in moving the debate onto precisely the area that Labour don't want. It's very much at odds with their 'core vote' strategy - many Labour supporters will I think be bemused by the emphasis on the deficit - and of course also very much plays into the hands of the SNP and other parties of profligacy trying to poach votes from Labour's left.
One thought does strike me: that page might be a last-minute addition. It's certainly very odd in terms of the structure of the document as a whole.
Incidentally, in 2010 when Osborne introduced the OBR, Labour supporters were on here in droves rubbishing it. I predicted then exactly what has happened: that Labour would end up relying on the OBR in an attempt to gain some credibility on the economy. IIRC, Hopi Sen was the only Labour supporter at the time who got it.
It sounds great for them tbh.0 -
Clear expectation management there as Mr Palmer is in full politico modeNickPalmer said:ICM hint sounds like a juicy Tory lead - 3 points? Impossible to guess Ashcroft!
You always know they're fibbing....whenever they speak!0 -
I reckon the Tory strategists will be pretty happy today. Ed's last minute "lock in" on Friday gives Crosby & Co 3 weeks now to smash any remaining economic credibility to pieces.
Meantime, the Tories can play the same trick they recently did on VAT with Labour. take a few days of pain, get Labour to go definitive on NHS spending, then show how you do it.0 -
It was added only a few days ago, at last minute, according to BBC Allegra Straton. Balls has done his work.Richard_Nabavi said:The Labour Manifesto has one very interesting feature: the fact that the opening page - even before Ed's foreword - is about the 'Budget Responsibility Lock'.
Leaving aside the question of how credible this is, it is interesting because it demonstrates that Labour think that the perception that they are fiscally irresponsible is their biggest weakness. In other words, Osborne has suceeded in moving the debate onto precisely the area that Labour don't want. It's very much at odds with their 'core vote' strategy - many Labour supporters will I think be bemused by the emphasis on the deficit - and of course also very much plays into the hands of the SNP and other parties of profligacy trying to poach votes from Labour's left.
One thought does strike me: that page might be a last-minute addition. It's certainly very odd in terms of the structure of the document as a whole.
Incidentally, in 2010 when Osborne introduced the OBR, Labour supporters were on here in droves rubbishing it. I predicted then exactly what has happened: that Labour would end up relying on the OBR in an attempt to gain some credibility on the economy. IIRC, Hopi Sen was the only Labour supporter at the time who got it.0 -
On the other hand bob, this manifesto looks like a win for tory policies on the economy.Bob__Sykes said:Repost from end of prev thread:
I have never before done as much as skim-read a Labour GE manifesto.
But I have speed-read this one, and I have to say, as someone who is very much a "One Nation Tory", I find it hard to see much in it that scares the horses, and much of which I approve. Indeed, there are many things I know will simply not be in the Tory manifesto.
I do find Ed is cutting an increasingly credible figure as prospective PM, in the face of the media and political onslaught against him, far more than Dave is with his "can't be arsed" coasting which has infuriated me for at least the past 6 years as regular PBers will know.
Given that some of the few Tory announcements made already either unenthuse me or I disagree with them as priorities, I do increasingly wonder whether 5 years of Labour accompanied by a Boris-led renewal and reunion of the centre-right (patently impossible under Cameron) might be in the best interests of everyone?
And with that in mind, perhaps a Labour Government not in hock to the nationalists would be preferable.
Gosh, me contemplating voting Labour. What is the world coming to?
Dave - you need to do something very special tomorrow and beyond. You are failing to excite and enthuse me, so god knows what message you're sending to the key voters you need to retain/win over!
It might not win for the tory party, but right wing fiscal responsiblity seems to be the order of the day, which is excellent as a whole.0 -
Added in all probability in response to doorstep feedback from marginals.rottenborough said:
It was added only a few days ago, at last minute, according to BBC Allegra Straton. Balls has done his work.Richard_Nabavi said:The Labour Manifesto has one very interesting feature: the fact that the opening page - even before Ed's foreword - is about the 'Budget Responsibility Lock'.
Leaving aside the question of how credible this is, it is interesting because it demonstrates that Labour think that the perception that they are fiscally irresponsible is their biggest weakness. In other words, Osborne has suceeded in moving the debate onto precisely the area that Labour don't want. It's very much at odds with their 'core vote' strategy - many Labour supporters will I think be bemused by the emphasis on the deficit - and of course also very much plays into the hands of the SNP and other parties of profligacy trying to poach votes from Labour's left.
One thought does strike me: that page might be a last-minute addition. It's certainly very odd in terms of the structure of the document as a whole.
Incidentally, in 2010 when Osborne introduced the OBR, Labour supporters were on here in droves rubbishing it. I predicted then exactly what has happened: that Labour would end up relying on the OBR in an attempt to gain some credibility on the economy. IIRC, Hopi Sen was the only Labour supporter at the time who got it.0 -
Which tells you all you need to know about what Labour thinks of its position up there.Slackbladder said:Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 2 mins2 minutes ago
Umunna slapdown for Jim Murphy: "The leader of the Scottish Labour Party will not be in charge of the UK budget"
Not good for labour north of the border
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It's just possible the tweeter himself has no idea what the findings are.felix said:
Clear expectation management there as Mr Palmer is in full politico modeNickPalmer said:ICM hint sounds like a juicy Tory lead - 3 points? Impossible to guess Ashcroft!
You always know they're fibbing....whenever they speak!
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so having had Precotts regional government plans utterly rejected Labour now try to gerrymander the voting system in the same way but under the guise of reform.
You can be sure that if they get away with this you will never see again another government other than Labour. They will secure their fiefdoms for ever.
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As I'm on a roll here: David Cameron + the Labour Manifesto = Unstoppable electoral force. Except in Scotland.0
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well done that man!isam said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I'll be happy if you make a donation to MSF:isam said:
Fair dos! Well doneRichard_Nabavi said:No EU referendum promise in the Labour manifesto: isam owes me £25.
I feel (almost!) embarrassed at winning such a no-brainer of a bet.
Send me your bank details and I will transfer dough
www.msf.org.ukRichard_Nabavi said:
I'll be happy if you make a donation to MSF:isam said:
Fair dos! Well doneRichard_Nabavi said:No EU referendum promise in the Labour manifesto: isam owes me £25.
I feel (almost!) embarrassed at winning such a no-brainer of a bet.
Send me your bank details and I will transfer dough
www.msf.org.uk
There you go. All the best
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Thank you Samuel.
Your donation of £25.00 has been successful.
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You'd be surprised how many people do not know about our work. Help our movement grow by spreading the message.
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Our staff and patients tell their own stories about life on the front line.
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I believe my prediction at the time has been proven correct: The OBR is going to be used by the right-wing press as a stick to beat Labour with while it is utterly ignored under the Conservatives.Richard_Nabavi said:Incidentally, in 2010 when Osborne introduced the OBR, Labour supporters were on here in droves rubbishing it. I predicted then exactly what has happened: that Labour would end up relying on the OBR in an attempt to gain some credibility on the economy.
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We can hope....Oliver_PB said:
I believe my prediction at the time has been proven correct: The OBR is going to be used by the right-wing press as a stick to beat Labour with while it is utterly ignored under the Conservatives.Richard_Nabavi said:Incidentally, in 2010 when Osborne introduced the OBR, Labour supporters were on here in droves rubbishing it. I predicted then exactly what has happened: that Labour would end up relying on the OBR in an attempt to gain some credibility on the economy.
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The plan to divide England into regions is great news as long as the division is done sensibly and without interference from politicians. The absurdly London-centric government of England is damaging the country.0
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Morning RichardRichard_Nabavi said:
Great thanks - you are a gent!isam said:
There you go. All the best
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on the subject of bets I believe you and I had one from a couple of years ago on the basis of whether or not Cameron would win the next election without tracking to the right.
A couple of questions on it.
Do you still have the original terms of the bet (or does Peter who I believe we registered it with?)
Would you agree that Cameron has not tacked to the right so we are really now betting on whether or not he wins?0 -
Don't forget to keep the receipt for your tax return. Cunning way to get 5/4 if you ask me ;-)isam said:
There you go. All the best
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Thank you Samuel.
Your donation of £25.00 has been successful.0 -
Tax?Tissue_Price said:
Don't forget to keep the receipt for your tax return. Cunning way to get 5/4 if you ask me ;-)isam said:
There you go. All the best
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Thank you Samuel.
Your donation of £25.00 has been successful.0 -
Bob_Sykes said
"I do find Ed is cutting an increasingly credible figure as prospective PM, in the face of the media and political onslaught against him, far more than Dave is with his "can't be arsed" coasting which has infuriated me for at least the past 6 years ---"
Some of us altacockers have been saying this for a while.0 -
I don't remember that bet, but I keep a record at home and I'll check. Are you sure it was a bet with me? The only bet I remember that I have with you is on the outcome of any EU referendum.Richard_Tyndall said:Morning Richard
on the subject of bets I believe you and I had one from a couple of years ago on the basis of whether or not Cameron would win the next election without tracking to the right.
A couple of questions on it.
Do you still have the original terms of the bet (or does Peter who I believe we registered it with?)
Would you agree that Cameron has not tacked to the right so we are really now betting on whether or not he wins?0 -
Gift Aidisam said:
Tax?Tissue_Price said:
Don't forget to keep the receipt for your tax return. Cunning way to get 5/4 if you ask me ;-)isam said:
There you go. All the best
More
MENU
Thank you Samuel.
Your donation of £25.00 has been successful.0 -
James Forsyth @JGForsyth 3 mins3 minutes ago
Chuka Umunna’s brutal line that leader of the Scottish Labour party doesn’t set UK Budget, suggests party beginning to write off Scotland0 -
Why? It's a pointless exercise that exists solely for partisan purposes. An honourable right-winger would say such a QUANGO is a waste of government funds!MarqueeMark said:
We can hope....Oliver_PB said:
I believe my prediction at the time has been proven correct: The OBR is going to be used by the right-wing press as a stick to beat Labour with while it is utterly ignored under the Conservatives.Richard_Nabavi said:Incidentally, in 2010 when Osborne introduced the OBR, Labour supporters were on here in droves rubbishing it. I predicted then exactly what has happened: that Labour would end up relying on the OBR in an attempt to gain some credibility on the economy.
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What happened to the labours line " catostrophic tory cuts" It looks like they have put into print that they will do the same0
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There's one tax rise:
With Labour, Britain will continue to have the most competitive rate of Corporation Tax in the G7
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I thought it was but may be wrong. Apologies if so. Maybe Peter has a copy. I have had a computer death in the meantime which is why I am having to ask. (Going back through backed up emails is such a pain :-) )Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't remember that bet, but I keep a record at home and I'll check. Are you sure it was a bet with me? The only bet I remember that I have with you is on the outcome of any EU referendum.Richard_Tyndall said:Morning Richard
on the subject of bets I believe you and I had one from a couple of years ago on the basis of whether or not Cameron would win the next election without tracking to the right.
A couple of questions on it.
Do you still have the original terms of the bet (or does Peter who I believe we registered it with?)
Would you agree that Cameron has not tacked to the right so we are really now betting on whether or not he wins?
I don't want to be seen not to be holding up my end in any bets.
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It held at the start of the Blair years too. But then look how that went so horribly wrong.Slackbladder said:
On the other hand bob, this manifesto looks like a win for tory policies on the economy.Bob__Sykes said:Repost from end of prev thread:
I have never before done as much as skim-read a Labour GE manifesto.
But I have speed-read this one, and I have to say, as someone who is very much a "One Nation Tory", I find it hard to see much in it that scares the horses, and much of which I approve. Indeed, there are many things I know will simply not be in the Tory manifesto.
I do find Ed is cutting an increasingly credible figure as prospective PM, in the face of the media and political onslaught against him, far more than Dave is with his "can't be arsed" coasting which has infuriated me for at least the past 6 years as regular PBers will know.
Given that some of the few Tory announcements made already either unenthuse me or I disagree with them as priorities, I do increasingly wonder whether 5 years of Labour accompanied by a Boris-led renewal and reunion of the centre-right (patently impossible under Cameron) might be in the best interests of everyone?
And with that in mind, perhaps a Labour Government not in hock to the nationalists would be preferable.
Gosh, me contemplating voting Labour. What is the world coming to?
Dave - you need to do something very special tomorrow and beyond. You are failing to excite and enthuse me, so god knows what message you're sending to the key voters you need to retain/win over!
It might not win for the tory party, but right wing fiscal responsiblity seems to be the order of the day, which is excellent as a whole.
Financial irresponsibility is Labour's DNA.0 -
Honorable is a moveable feast when there is an election to win....Oliver_PB said:
Why? It's a pointless exercise that exists solely for partisan purposes. An honourable right-winger would say such a QUANGO is a waste of government funds!MarqueeMark said:
We can hope....Oliver_PB said:
I believe my prediction at the time has been proven correct: The OBR is going to be used by the right-wing press as a stick to beat Labour with while it is utterly ignored under the Conservatives.Richard_Nabavi said:Incidentally, in 2010 when Osborne introduced the OBR, Labour supporters were on here in droves rubbishing it. I predicted then exactly what has happened: that Labour would end up relying on the OBR in an attempt to gain some credibility on the economy.
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Hmmm...
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3036152/Show-passport-use-NHS-Clampdown-stop-migrants-tourists-abusing-Health-Service-costs-2bn-year.html
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.0 -
Richard_Nabavi said:
No EU referendum promise in the Labour manifesto: isam owes me £25.
I feel (almost!) embarrassed at winning such a no-brainer of a bet.
So there you have it... no referendum. Get that Kippers NO REFERENDUM.
The most interesting thing now is watching UKIP with there massive opportunity to get possibly a whole two seats on a good night, split the vote with the one party that actually does offer them a referendum and by doing splitting the vote forever removes any chance of what they crave most
Way to go guys...way to go! and they said trying to ban horse racing was a mad idea
LOL0 -
Cyclefree
There's a candidate in Hampstead called Robin Ellison standing for the 'U party'. I used to know him well. Any idea what the party is all about?0 -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3036152/Show-passport-use-NHS-Clampdown-stop-migrants-tourists-abusing-Health-Service-costs-2bn-year.htmlJosiasJessop said:Hmmm...
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
Lynton Crosby is poisoning the tories.0 -
Is it just me or am I alone in getting the impression that Balls is starting to think " Christ, I may really have to do this. "?
It is not easy to reconcile much of what Labour has said and done in the last 5 years with this Manifesto. Opposition for opposition's sake: meet reality (with some added fluffy bits).0 -
Are Labour actually attacking the Tories for planning to spend too MUCH on the NHS?
Insanity.0 -
SLab is without question an essential pillar of the Labour movement. Is it too much to hope that the whole rotten structure is about to collapse ?0
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Don't know about Balls but I certainly am..... We just never learn.DavidL said:Is it just me or am I alone in getting the impression that Balls is starting to think " Christ, I may really have to do this. "?
It is not easy to reconcile much of what Labour has said and done in the last 5 years with this Manifesto. Opposition for opposition's sake: meet reality (with some added fluffy bits).0 -
Lynton Crosby is poisoning the tories.Pong said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3036152/Show-passport-use-NHS-Clampdown-stop-migrants-tourists-abusing-Health-Service-costs-2bn-year.htmlJosiasJessop said:Hmmm...
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
Anyone in need of urgent medical attention for an injury suffered should get treated
Farages latest idea, which I of course agree with having suggested it months ago, is for drunks to be charged for A&E use0 -
Michael Gove, the Conservative chief whip, has been responding to the Labour manifest launch. This is what he told the BBC.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/13/election-2015-live-ed-miliband-labour-party-manifesto
It’s got no credibility at all. We know every page in Labour’s manifesto will be subject to sign off by Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. Labour cannot get into Downing Street except on the coattails of the Scottish National Party so every promise they make today is subject to veto or endorsement by the SNP. Labour proposals are not funded and they are not underwritten by the credibility of delivering a strong economy.0 -
Sadly i think it's time to cast the Scots adrift. Probably the only way we're ever gonna really be friends again. Nationalism is such a toxic ideology when it gets taken so seriously.SouthamObserver said:As I'm on a roll here: David Cameron + the Labour Manifesto = Unstoppable electoral force. Except in Scotland.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3036152/Show-passport-use-NHS-Clampdown-stop-migrants-tourists-abusing-Health-Service-costs-2bn-year.htmlJosiasJessop said:Hmmm...
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
A&E is unaffected I think.
So if asked, you would have time to find details.
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Lynton Crosby is poisoning the tories.Pong said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3036152/Show-passport-use-NHS-Clampdown-stop-migrants-tourists-abusing-Health-Service-costs-2bn-year.htmlJosiasJessop said:Hmmm...
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
I suspect this measure will be VERY popular on the doorsteps....even though the practicalities may need some ironing out. I imagine a DVLC drivers licence could be used to the same effect for Brits.
It may also have a significant impact on the NHS, if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by.
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Any optimism I had about Labour has now gone after they've allowed the terms of the debate to move entirely back onto the Tories' turf. Their poll ratings have ALWAYS dropped whenever they start ludicrously posturing about how "tough" they'll be with the deficit: they just push away the many people who are against cuts and don't care about the deficit, while it sounds too implausible to those people who actually do care about the deficit.0
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Anyone in need of urgent medical attention for an injury suffered should get treatedisam said:
Lynton Crosby is poisoning the tories.Pong said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3036152/Show-passport-use-NHS-Clampdown-stop-migrants-tourists-abusing-Health-Service-costs-2bn-year.htmlJosiasJessop said:Hmmm...
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
Farages latest idea, which I of course agree with having suggested it months ago, is for drunks to be charged for A&E use
What happens if they're too pished to remember their PIN?
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@JohnRentoul: Lab promise (with typo) to spend "£2.5bn more than the Conservatives" on NHS http://t.co/QGx21ONaOx HT @toadmeister http://t.co/gWjVzOVRU3Danny565 said:Are Labour actually attacking the Tories for planning to spend too MUCH on the NHS?
Insanity.0
