Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
Lynton Crosby is poisoning the tories.
Anyone in need of urgent medical attention for an injury suffered should get treated
Farages latest idea, which I of course agree with having suggested it months ago, is for drunks to be charged for A&E use
What happens if they're too pished to remember their PIN?
Well the finer details are for the pen pushers to sort out.. the general principle is easy to follow... if its your own fault though being drunk, its not free to get patched up
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
I'm trying to work out how this is a bad news for the SNP and why it indicates they won't do as well as expected but to be honest I'm struggling this time round.
Any optimism I had about Labour has now gone after they've allowed the terms of the debate to move entirely back onto the Tories' turf. Their poll ratings have ALWAYS dropped whenever they start ludicrously posturing about how "tough" they'll be with the deficit: they just push away the many people who are against cuts and don't care about the deficit, while it sounds too implausible to those people who actually do care about the deficit.
You are right it is very odd.
In the early stages Labour were at "tories are going to cut too much", now it seems they are at "tories are going to spend too much"
0%. UKC1 is slowly combining without County Durham. UKC2 is trying to merge county Durham into itself (I think to counter non labour parts of Nothumberland and North Tyneside)...
Michael Gove, the Conservative chief whip, has been responding to the Labour manifest launch. This is what he told the BBC.
It’s got no credibility at all. We know every page in Labour’s manifesto will be subject to sign off by Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. Labour cannot get into Downing Street except on the coattails of the Scottish National Party so every promise they make today is subject to veto or endorsement by the SNP. Labour proposals are not funded and they are not underwritten by the credibility of delivering a strong economy.
Any optimism I had about Labour has now gone after they've allowed the terms of the debate to move entirely back onto the Tories' turf. Their poll ratings have ALWAYS dropped whenever they start ludicrously posturing about how "tough" they'll be with the deficit: they just push away the many people who are against cuts and don't care about the deficit, while it sounds too implausible to those people who actually do care about the deficit.
Labour's line should be that the NHS is more important than the deficit. The books will balance, we'll borrow what we need to borrow - just like Osborne has done for the past 5 years. His 2010 promises turned out to be nonsense, so getting hung up on the size of the deficit in 5 years time is pointless. What is not pointless is promising to fully fund the needs of the NHS. Labour are somehow managing to paint themselves as the anti-NHS party. What is Balls playing at?
Michael Gove, the Conservative chief whip, has been responding to the Labour manifest launch. This is what he told the BBC.
It’s got no credibility at all. We know every page in Labour’s manifesto will be subject to sign off by Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. Labour cannot get into Downing Street except on the coattails of the Scottish National Party so every promise they make today is subject to veto or endorsement by the SNP. Labour proposals are not funded and they are not underwritten by the credibility of delivering a strong economy.
I'm trying to work out how this is a bad news for the SNP and why it indicates they won't do as well as expected but to be honest I'm struggling this time round.
The Lib Dems have doubled their vote share.
Means the SNP aren't going to gain many seats from the Lib Dems, if this trend continues.
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
Lynton Crosby is poisoning the tories.
I suspect this measure will be VERY popular on the doorsteps....even though the practicalities may need some ironing out. I imagine a DVLC drivers licence could be used to the same effect for Brits.
It may also have a significant impact on the NHS, if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by.
Like many other such proposals it sounds good. However, how many people don't have passports?
0%. UKC1 is slowly combining without County Durham. UKC2 is trying to merge county Durham into itself (I think to counter non labour parts of Nothumberland and North Tyneside)...
Anything that stops County Durham being lumped in with Teesside is a good thing in my book!
Michael Gove, the Conservative chief whip, has been responding to the Labour manifest launch. This is what he told the BBC.
It’s got no credibility at all. We know every page in Labour’s manifesto will be subject to sign off by Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. Labour cannot get into Downing Street except on the coattails of the Scottish National Party so every promise they make today is subject to veto or endorsement by the SNP. Labour proposals are not funded and they are not underwritten by the credibility of delivering a strong economy.
I'm trying to work out how this is a bad news for the SNP and why it indicates they won't do as well as expected but to be honest I'm struggling this time round.
The Lib Dems have doubled their vote share.
Means the SNP aren't going to gain many seats from the Lib Dems, if this trend continues.
Good point, probably takes Orkney & Shetland out of reach.
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
Lynton Crosby is poisoning the tories.
I suspect this measure will be VERY popular on the doorsteps....even though the practicalities may need some ironing out. I imagine a DVLC drivers licence could be used to the same effect for Brits.
It may also have a significant impact on the NHS, if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by.
Like many other such proposals it sounds good. However, how many people don't have passports?
The logical, sensible, crosbyite solution to this imaginary problem is ID cards.
I'm trying to work out how this is a bad news for the SNP and why it indicates they won't do as well as expected but to be honest I'm struggling this time round.
The Lib Dems have doubled their vote share.
Means the SNP aren't going to gain many seats from the Lib Dems, if this trend continues.
Good point, probably takes Orkney & Shetland out of reach.
Richard_Nabavi said: No EU referendum promise in the Labour manifesto: isam owes me £25. I feel (almost!) embarrassed at winning such a no-brainer of a bet.
So there you have it... no referendum. Get that Kippers NO REFERENDUM.
The most interesting thing now is watching UKIP with there massive opportunity to get possibly a whole two seats on a good night, split the vote with the one party that actually does offer them a referendum and by doing splitting the vote forever removes any chance of what they crave most
Way to go guys...way to go! and they said trying to ban horse racing was a mad idea
LOL
Which all ignores the fact that what Kippers want is to leave the EU. Under Cameron that will not happen under any circumstances. Get that Moses? Cameron will not take us out of the EU. He is the problem not the solution.
Of course if you don't actually want to leave the EU that won't bother you. But it will also negate any comment you can make on the subject.
Michael Gove, the Conservative chief whip, has been responding to the Labour manifest launch. This is what he told the BBC.
It’s got no credibility at all. We know every page in Labour’s manifesto will be subject to sign off by Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. Labour cannot get into Downing Street except on the coattails of the Scottish National Party so every promise they make today is subject to veto or endorsement by the SNP. Labour proposals are not funded and they are not underwritten by the credibility of delivering a strong economy.
So completely the wrong response by the Tories, but par for the course.
Who in the core marginals the Tories need to retain/win really gives a fig about Sturgeon and Salmond?
I drove through Colne yesterday, a town in the Pendle constituency which the Tories hold by about 3,000 votes. On the main street is a big billboard of Salmond with EdM in his top pocket. Here we are in a hard-working, respectable working class former milltown in Lancashire, where local folk are concerned about jobs, immigrants, so-called cuts, the continued repercussions of the last Labour Govt (but many assume it was Cameron) closing the local A&E, and the Tory billboard words of comfort on their main street are all about Salmond having the Labour leader in his pocket - for many folk in Colne (and no disrespect to them), they won't know who Salmond is, or Ed, and many won't even get the point even if they do.
I just thought it epitomised in one stupid poster how pathetic and ill-conceived this Tory campaign is, and why they are going to lose the General Election.
I'm trying to work out how this is a bad news for the SNP and why it indicates they won't do as well as expected but to be honest I'm struggling this time round.
The Lib Dems have doubled their vote share.
Means the SNP aren't going to gain many seats from the Lib Dems, if this trend continues.
Good point, probably takes Orkney & Shetland out of reach.
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
Lynton Crosby is poisoning the tories.
I suspect this measure will be VERY popular on the doorsteps....even though the practicalities may need some ironing out. I imagine a DVLC drivers licence could be used to the same effect for Brits.
It may also have a significant impact on the NHS, if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by.
Like many other such proposals it sounds good. However, how many people don't have passports?
The logical, sensible, crosbyite solution to this imaginary problem is ID cards.
Open goal.
No. It is not about A&E - all get treated there. It is about somebody from the sub-Continent who speaks no English and presents for a heart by-pass operation.
Before you get on the operating table, show us your passport please....or similar evidence that we aren't doing some other country's healthcare on the British taxpayers' purse.
I'm trying to work out how this is a bad news for the SNP and why it indicates they won't do as well as expected but to be honest I'm struggling this time round.
The Lib Dems have doubled their vote share.
Means the SNP aren't going to gain many seats from the Lib Dems, if this trend continues.
Good point, probably takes Orkney & Shetland out of reach.
Michael Gove, the Conservative chief whip, has been responding to the Labour manifest launch. This is what he told the BBC.
It’s got no credibility at all. We know every page in Labour’s manifesto will be subject to sign off by Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. Labour cannot get into Downing Street except on the coattails of the Scottish National Party so every promise they make today is subject to veto or endorsement by the SNP. Labour proposals are not funded and they are not underwritten by the credibility of delivering a strong economy.
So completely the wrong response by the Tories, but par for the course.
Who in the core marginals the Tories need to retain/win really gives a fig about Sturgeon and Salmond?
I drove through Colne yesterday, a town in the Pendle constituency which the Tories hold by about 3,000 votes. On the main street is a big billboard of Salmond with EdM in his top pocket. Here we are in a hard-working, respectable working class former milltown in Lancashire, where local folk are concerned about jobs, immigrants, so-called cuts, the continued repercussions of the last Labour Govt (but many assume it was Cameron) closing the local A&E, and the Tory billboard words of comfort on their main street are all about Salmond having the Labour leader in his pocket - for many folk in Colne (and no disrespect to them), they won't know who Salmond is, or Ed, and many won't even get the point even if they do.
I just thought it epitomised in one stupid poster how pathetic and ill-conceived this Tory campaign is, and why they are going to lose the General Election.
I have never before done as much as skim-read a Labour GE manifesto.
But I have speed-read this one, and I have to say, as someone who is very much a "One Nation Tory", I find it hard to see much in it that scares the horses, and much of which I approve. Indeed, there are many things I know will simply not be in the Tory manifesto.
I do find Ed is cutting an increasingly credible figure as prospective PM, in the face of the media and political onslaught against him, far more than Dave is with his "can't be arsed" coasting which has infuriated me for at least the past 6 years as regular PBers will know.
Given that some of the few Tory announcements made already either unenthuse me or I disagree with them as priorities, I do increasingly wonder whether 5 years of Labour accompanied by a Boris-led renewal and reunion of the centre-right (patently impossible under Cameron) might be in the best interests of everyone?
And with that in mind, perhaps a Labour Government not in hock to the nationalists would be preferable.
Gosh, me contemplating voting Labour. What is the world coming to?
Dave - you need to do something very special tomorrow and beyond. You are failing to excite and enthuse me, so god knows what message you're sending to the key voters you need to retain/win over!
(Also a repost...actually in reply to the one about tpries borrowing more than Lab etc etc zzz)
They inherited a £156bn deficit. In order to not borrow as much as Labour, they would have had to cut this by ~75% more or less immediately.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that you would not have been cheering the cuts this would have entailed.
Instead they have cut the deficit by 40-odd%, more in terms of Debt:GDP ratio, it is still falling and furthermore they have got the economy growing nicely again.
You are, I contend, one of those types on internet forums who pose as a supporter of X, who is now mysteriously in the process of being persuaded by Y, when Y is in fact what you have supported for some time.
Yawn
If memory serves this very same poster did all of this prior to 2010 election too.
I'm trying to work out how this is a bad news for the SNP and why it indicates they won't do as well as expected but to be honest I'm struggling this time round.
The Lib Dems have doubled their vote share.
Means the SNP aren't going to gain many seats from the Lib Dems, if this trend continues.
Good point, probably takes Orkney & Shetland out of reach.
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
I'm trying to work out how this is a bad news for the SNP and why it indicates they won't do as well as expected but to be honest I'm struggling this time round.
The Lib Dems have doubled their vote share.
Means the SNP aren't going to gain many seats from the Lib Dems, if this trend continues.
Good point, probably takes Orkney & Shetland out of reach.
on the subject of bets I believe you and I had one from a couple of years ago on the basis of whether or not Cameron would win the next election without tracking to the right.
A couple of questions on it.
Do you still have the original terms of the bet (or does Peter who I believe we registered it with?)
Would you agree that Cameron has not tacked to the right so we are really now betting on whether or not he wins?
I don't remember that bet, but I keep a record at home and I'll check. Are you sure it was a bet with me? The only bet I remember that I have with you is on the outcome of any EU referendum.
Michael Gove, the Conservative chief whip, has been responding to the Labour manifest launch. This is what he told the BBC.
It’s got no credibility at all. We know every page in Labour’s manifesto will be subject to sign off by Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. Labour cannot get into Downing Street except on the coattails of the Scottish National Party so every promise they make today is subject to veto or endorsement by the SNP. Labour proposals are not funded and they are not underwritten by the credibility of delivering a strong economy.
So completely the wrong response by the Tories, but par for the course.
Who in the core marginals the Tories need to retain/win really gives a fig about Sturgeon and Salmond?
I drove through Colne yesterday, a town in the Pendle constituency which the Tories hold by about 3,000 votes. On the main street is a big billboard of Salmond with EdM in his top pocket. Here we are in a hard-working, respectable working class former milltown in Lancashire, where local folk are concerned about jobs, immigrants, so-called cuts, the continued repercussions of the last Labour Govt (but many assume it was Cameron) closing the local A&E, and the Tory billboard words of comfort on their main street are all about Salmond having the Labour leader in his pocket - for many folk in Colne (and no disrespect to them), they won't know who Salmond is, or Ed, and many won't even get the point even if they do.
I just thought it epitomised in one stupid poster how pathetic and ill-conceived this Tory campaign is, and why they are going to lose the General Election.
You are not very good at this astroturfing lark Bob.
Richard_Nabavi said: No EU referendum promise in the Labour manifesto: isam owes me £25. I feel (almost!) embarrassed at winning such a no-brainer of a bet.
So there you have it... no referendum. Get that Kippers NO REFERENDUM.
The most interesting thing now is watching UKIP with there massive opportunity to get possibly a whole two seats on a good night, split the vote with the one party that actually does offer them a referendum and by doing splitting the vote forever removes any chance of what they crave most
Way to go guys...way to go! and they said trying to ban horse racing was a mad idea
LOL
Which all ignores the fact that what Kippers want is to leave the EU. Under Cameron that will not happen under any circumstances. Get that Moses? Cameron will not take us out of the EU. He is the problem not the solution.
Of course if you don't actually want to leave the EU that won't bother you. But it will also negate any comment you can make on the subject.
What kippers want is to leave the EU - but whether the rest of the UK's citizens want to or not.
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
Lynton Crosby is poisoning the tories.
I suspect this measure will be VERY popular on the doorsteps....even though the practicalities may need some ironing out. I imagine a DVLC drivers licence could be used to the same effect for Brits.
It may also have a significant impact on the NHS, if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by.
Like many other such proposals it sounds good. However, how many people don't have passports?
The logical, sensible, crosbyite solution to this imaginary problem is ID cards.
Open goal.
No. It is not about A&E - all get treated there. It is about somebody from the sub-Continent who speaks no English and presents for a heart by-pass operation.
Before you get on the operating table, show us your passport please....or similar evidence that we aren't doing some other country's healthcare on the British taxpayers' purse.
White Zimbabwean, Canadian, Australian, Kiwi, South African is OK, I take it.
I don't have a problem with a reformed 2nd chamber, but why can't there be called Lord-Lieutenants or LMP (Lord member of parliament) ?
Thought the same about the "Supreme Court". Borne of a complete lack of self-confidence in British culture and history and an inferiority complex when it comes to the Americans.
People can't bear to look at the true, ugly face of the NHS, so they shroud themselves in delusion and get very angry with people who threaten that delusion. They're scared to take responsibility for their health.
We need more of this drivel from Tories/the Right to ensure their unelectability.
Whilst I doff my cap to your undoubtedly superior knowledge of drivel, this is simply the unvarnished truth about the extent of people's brainwashing on the subject of the clostridium infested death factory we call the NHS. One of the last surviving edifices of state socialism, and like all the others, inherently inhumane.
On the other hand bob, this manifesto looks like a win for tory policies on the economy.
It might not win for the tory party, but right wing fiscal responsiblity seems to be the order of the day, which is excellent as a whole.
Yes, I guess that sort of was where I was coming from.
On a read of what has actually been put into print, it strikes me as perhaps the most "right wing" Labour manifesto of all time, probably more centrist/centre-right economically anything even Blair put before us? The 1997 manifesto and pledge cards had an all-pervasive leftism about them.
(Also a repost...actually in reply to the one about tpries borrowing more than Lab etc etc zzz)
They inherited a £156bn deficit. In order to not borrow as much as Labour, they would have had to cut this by ~75% more or less immediately.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that you would not have been cheering the cuts this would have entailed.
Instead they have cut the deficit by 40-odd%, more in terms of Debt:GDP ratio, it is still falling and furthermore they have got the economy growing nicely again.
You are, I contend, one of those types on internet forums who pose as a supporter of X, who is now mysteriously in the process of being persuaded by Y, when Y is in fact what you have supported for some time.
Yawn
I've been posting on PB for well over 10 years. Anyone who has done the same will know full well where my inclinations lie.
I'm trying to work out how this is a bad news for the SNP and why it indicates they won't do as well as expected but to be honest I'm struggling this time round.
The Lib Dems have doubled their vote share.
Means the SNP aren't going to gain many seats from the Lib Dems, if this trend continues.
Good point, probably takes Orkney & Shetland out of reach.
My company network blocks betting websites - a right arse when Coral or Betfair Sportsbook puts up new markets in the middle of the day,
I've bought at £2 a point @ 40, Tissue Price reckoned the spread of 36-40 was a factor against. 38 is a nice midpoint on that though... Essentially the break-even point is 45 seats and you score 60 pts for 50-54, 80 pts above, 100 for the sweep.
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
There's a candidate in Hampstead called Robin Ellison standing for the 'U party'. I used to know him well. Any idea what the party is all about?
In 2010 the party stood (unsurprisingly given his professional interests) for pension reform. I would have thought he'd chalk the 2010 to 2015 Government down as a success on that front and not waste his time / energy again.
on the subject of bets I believe you and I had one from a couple of years ago on the basis of whether or not Cameron would win the next election without tracking to the right.
A couple of questions on it.
Do you still have the original terms of the bet (or does Peter who I believe we registered it with?)
Would you agree that Cameron has not tacked to the right so we are really now betting on whether or not he wins?
I don't remember that bet, but I keep a record at home and I'll check. Are you sure it was a bet with me? The only bet I remember that I have with you is on the outcome of any EU referendum.
I thought it was but may be wrong. Apologies if so. Maybe Peter has a copy. I have had a computer death in the meantime which is why I am having to ask. (Going back through backed up emails is such a pain :-) )
I don't want to be seen not to be holding up my end in any bets.
Your bet is with me and I recorded it with PtP at the time.
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
Lynton Crosby is poisoning the tories.
I suspect this measure will be VERY popular on the doorsteps....even though the practicalities may need some ironing out. I imagine a DVLC drivers licence could be used to the same effect for Brits.
It may also have a significant impact on the NHS, if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by.
Like many other such proposals it sounds good. However, how many people don't have passports?
The logical, sensible, crosbyite solution to this imaginary problem is ID cards.
Open goal.
No. It is not about A&E - all get treated there. It is about somebody from the sub-Continent who speaks no English and presents for a heart by-pass operation.
Before you get on the operating table, show us your passport please....or similar evidence that we aren't doing some other country's healthcare on the British taxpayers' purse.
White Zimbabwean, Canadian, Australian, Kiwi, South African is OK, I take it.
How does your open borders for everyone work on the nhs ?
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
6-5 SNP Coatbridge, Chryston, Bellshill is the bet of the day imo. This manifesto will go down like a cup of cold sick in the west of Scotland.
Those at outpatients clinics and in A&E will have to fill in forms stating their passport number and expiry date, and say how much time they have spent abroad, if they are to be admitted on to a ward.
What happens if I don't keep my passport number on me at all times? I sure as heck do not at the moment.
Lynton Crosby is poisoning the tories.
I suspect this measure will be VERY popular on the doorsteps....even though the practicalities may need some ironing out. I imagine a DVLC drivers licence could be used to the same effect for Brits.
It may also have a significant impact on the NHS, if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by.
Like many other such proposals it sounds good. However, how many people don't have passports?
The logical, sensible, crosbyite solution to this imaginary problem is ID cards.
Open goal.
No. It is not about A&E - all get treated there. It is about somebody from the sub-Continent who speaks no English and presents for a heart by-pass operation.
Before you get on the operating table, show us your passport please....or similar evidence that we aren't doing some other country's healthcare on the British taxpayers' purse.
White Zimbabwean, Canadian, Australian, Kiwi, South African is OK, I take it.
Ah the leftie snide racism accusations grate just as much when they're aimed at Tories.. good to know it wasn't me being over sensitive
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
6-5 SNP Coatbridge, Chryston, Bellshill is the bet of the day imo. This manifesto will go down like a cup of cold sick in the west of Scotland.
And England too. I'm closer than I've ever been before to throwing the Greens a "fuck it" vote.
The hilarity is this is when Labour had finally got some momentum, before they then shot themselves in the foot yet again. They REALLY don't want to win this election do they.
Here in Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough, I got my first leaflet of the campaign this morning, from the Labour candidate, Harry Harpham. It has contact details, five pledges, and a letter, beginning "Can you afford five more years of David Cameron?" with all the usual anti-Tory rhetoric.
There's no mention of the Lib Dems at all, and just one sentence attacking UKIP, saying that like the Tories they "would increase privatisation in the NHS and slash services."
Presumably, this means Labour think there's more of a threat here from UKIP than from the Lib Dems. There's no realistic chance of them losing, but a strong second place from UKIP might be a little embarrassing.
» show previous quotes Cyclefree said: Teaching British history and the arguments of political thinkers and writers like Locke, Hobbes, Mill, Wilkes, Paine, Burke and Orwell would do far more.
Not sure Wilkes or Paine are good examples - neither were exactly perfectly behaved and Paine in particular had a bit of a penchant for violence and terrorism. Locke, Mill (and Bentham) were both very arrogant, but neither said anything new or meaningful. Burke might be a better example - but at the same time, he was prone to angry outbursts that might not exactly encourage rational thought.
As for Enlightenment values - I teach the French Revolution and Soviet Russia. They are both based on those values and they are both damning indictments of the logical results of them. As a result the idea of teaching 'values' leaves me fairly uneasy.
What I would rather see is a commitment to uphold and promote the value of democracy and the rule of law. I'm happy to go with that because it's (a) simple to understand and (b) allows for some flexibility as the law changes.
In response to ydoethur:
I wasn't suggesting teaching them as exemplars of moral behaviour but I do think that to understand why we think the way we do we need to understand what people in our past have said, why they said it and how those ideas have developed and been taken up by others.
Re Enlightenment ideasI think the Russian revolution is an example of a reaction to Western liberalism rather than being based on its concepts. I would say the same about the French revolution as well. France is one country where the concept of liberalism as we understand it here is not really understood at all.
Personally I think the ideas that developed from the time of the Civil War onwards and in the 18th century (based on earlier ideas of course) and which were taken up, in part, by the American revolutionaries are tremendously interesting and, IMO, essential to an understanding of British history and politics, as well as European and other history, and where we are today.
Tom Paine's "Rights of Man" is a great political book. Well worth reading as it has aged well.
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
6-5 SNP Coatbridge, Chryston, Bellshill is the bet of the day imo. This manifesto will go down like a cup of cold sick in the west of Scotland.
And England too. I'm closer than I've ever been before to throwing the Greens a "fuck it" vote.
Here in Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough, I got my first leaflet of the campaign this morning, from the Labour candidate, Harry Harpham. It has contact details, five pledges, and a letter, beginning "Can you afford five more years of David Cameron?" with all the usual anti-Tory rhetoric.
There's no mention of the Lib Dems at all, and just one sentence attacking UKIP, saying that like the Tories they "would increase privatisation in the NHS and slash services."
Presumably, this means Labour think there's more of a threat here from UKIP than from the Lib Dems. There's no realistic chance of them losing, but a strong second place from UKIP might be a little embarrassing.
All Sheffield Lib Dems are currently being deployed to Sheffield Hallam.
I wouldn't be shocked or surprised to see the Lib Dems in all the other Sheffield seats to collapse on a scale larger than the national trend
(Also a repost...actually in reply to the one about tpries borrowing more than Lab etc etc zzz)
They inherited a £156bn deficit. In order to not borrow as much as Labour, they would have had to cut this by ~75% more or less immediately.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that you would not have been cheering the cuts this would have entailed.
Instead they have cut the deficit by 40-odd%, more in terms of Debt:GDP ratio, it is still falling and furthermore they have got the economy growing nicely again.
You are, I contend, one of those types on internet forums who pose as a supporter of X, who is now mysteriously in the process of being persuaded by Y, when Y is in fact what you have supported for some time.
Yawn
If memory serves this very same poster did all of this prior to 2010 election too.
Your memory doesn't serve you well. This poster rode against the PB Tory tide in saying we wouldn't win a majority and warning that Cameron was being too "cool" and coasting along expecting to beat his "unelectable" opponent with ease with a whopping majority, too scared to do anything bold and exciting which might threaten that.
I reckoned he'd fall short and get barely 300 seats. I wasn't far wrong then, and Dave appears not to have learned much...
Here in Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough, I got my first leaflet of the campaign this morning, from the Labour candidate, Harry Harpham. It has contact details, five pledges, and a letter, beginning "Can you afford five more years of David Cameron?" with all the usual anti-Tory rhetoric.
There's no mention of the Lib Dems at all, and just one sentence attacking UKIP, saying that like the Tories they "would increase privatisation in the NHS and slash services."
Presumably, this means Labour think there's more of a threat here from UKIP than from the Lib Dems. There's no realistic chance of them losing, but a strong second place from UKIP might be a little embarrassing.
Surely UKIP are nailed on for 2nd there ?
Harry to get over 50% of the vote though. In fact you can probably take the vote from last time and just switch Lib Dem and UKIP for a decent guess at Hillsborough.
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
6-5 SNP Coatbridge, Chryston, Bellshill is the bet of the day imo. This manifesto will go down like a cup of cold sick in the west of Scotland.
And England too. I'm closer than I've ever been before to throwing the Greens a "fuck it" vote.
Which constituency are you in ?
Ellesmere Port & Neston. We actually have a Green candidate standing this time for the first time in ages, and a loony-lefty TUSC candidate too!
There's a candidate in Hampstead called Robin Ellison standing for the 'U party'. I used to know him well. Any idea what the party is all about?
Is that Robin Ellison the actor?
No idea about the party. Have never heard of it. Sorry.
BTW thanks for your response on the previous thread. M Nawaz has been very open about his Islamist past so can't imagine what the Mail thought it was doing, other than to try and smear every Muslim as a terrorist. Which is despicable.
I don't think he will win but I hope he does stay in politics. Interestingly both the Lib Dems and the Tories have been focusing on housing in the local campaign.
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
6-5 SNP Coatbridge, Chryston, Bellshill is the bet of the day imo. This manifesto will go down like a cup of cold sick in the west of Scotland.
And England too. I'm closer than I've ever been before to throwing the Greens a "fuck it" vote.
Which constituency are you in ?
Ellesmere Port & Neston. We actually have a Green candidate standing this time for the first time in ages, and a loony-lefty TUSC candidate too!
What do the left wingers on here think of Labours right wing manifesto?
Atleast on the plus-side, it should be clear now that this defeat will not have come about because of a "left-wing" prospectus. Should hopefully blow the chances of Chuka or any other "Blairite" and their "economic credibility" nonsense winning the leadership contest.
Sometimes it seems that the trick modern politicians are trying to pull with the electorate is to have them believe that the solution to squaring the circle - of paying for high quality public services with low taxes - is that the circle exists in a quantum superposition of states where it is simultaneously also a square.
In the spirit of Terry Pratchett, I suggest that the crucial element politicians need to pull this off is "credibilitium". Enough of this and they can say any old inconsistent bollocks and the electorate will swallow it anyway.
So to explain Labour's messaging goes something like this. They've long established that the Tories are evil and have cut lots. Labour won't cut so much. The Labour hope is that this is now established as a given, an axiom. Now, by reference to recent Tory spending pledges, and the magic words of "fully funded" for their own spending pledges, they will try to simultaneously create the impression that the Tories will irresponsibly spend more than Labour, while still cutting more.
This will work, if Labour have more in the way of credibilitium than the Tories.
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
6-5 SNP Coatbridge, Chryston, Bellshill is the bet of the day imo. This manifesto will go down like a cup of cold sick in the west of Scotland.
And England too. I'm closer than I've ever been before to throwing the Greens a "fuck it" vote.
Which constituency are you in ?
Ellesmere Port & Neston. We actually have a Green candidate standing this time for the first time in ages, and a loony-lefty TUSC candidate too!
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
Totally disagree. Labour has been saying the same thing for a few years: cuts do have to be made but they can be made better, they can be made over a long time frame and they do not have to be driven by ideology. That may or may not be bollocks, but it fits exactly with what has been said today.
A reckless cut does not have to be the same as a cut - and most voters recognise that. Labour's issue is much more about whether they sound credible than whether they are alienating a large swathe of voters who might go out and back an end to austerity but would prefer a Tory government to make cuts than a Labour one.
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
6-5 SNP Coatbridge, Chryston, Bellshill is the bet of the day imo. This manifesto will go down like a cup of cold sick in the west of Scotland.
And England too. I'm closer than I've ever been before to throwing the Greens a "fuck it" vote.
Which constituency are you in ?
Ellesmere Port & Neston. We actually have a Green candidate standing this time for the first time in ages, and a loony-lefty TUSC candidate too!
You're calling someone else "loony-left"?!
And you're a Green! I've run out of metaphorical kitchen containers...
I'm trying to work out how this is a bad news for the SNP and why it indicates they won't do as well as expected but to be honest I'm struggling this time round.
The Lib Dems have doubled their vote share.
Means the SNP aren't going to gain many seats from the Lib Dems, if this trend continues.
Good point, probably takes Orkney & Shetland out of reach.
And Charlie Kennedy?
Sir Robeet Smith's agent, who is a member of my extended family seems very confident. Mind, find me an agent who isn't ........ That confidence was expressed in a family situation though!
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
6-5 SNP Coatbridge, Chryston, Bellshill is the bet of the day imo. This manifesto will go down like a cup of cold sick in the west of Scotland.
And England too. I'm closer than I've ever been before to throwing the Greens a "fuck it" vote.
Which constituency are you in ?
Ellesmere Port & Neston. We actually have a Green candidate standing this time for the first time in ages, and a loony-lefty TUSC candidate too!
You're calling someone else "loony-left"?!
I'm not even that left-wing. I was as appalled as anyone at Labour's lurch into CND and Militiant madness in the 1980s. I just believe that public services are more important than getting the figures right on a spreadsheet and showering the super-rich with goodies - like 60%+ of the public also believe.
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
Totally disagree. Labour has been saying the same thing for a few years: cuts do have to be made but they can be made better, they can be made over a long time frame and they do not have to be driven by ideology. That may or may not be bollocks, but it fits exactly with what has been said today.
A reckless cut does not have to be the same as a cut - and most voters recognise that. Labour's issue is much more about whether they sound credible than whether they are alienating a large swathe of voters who might go out and back an end to austerity but would prefer a Tory government to make cuts than a Labour one.
Totally disagree. Labour has been saying the same thing for a few years: cuts do have to be made but they can be made better, they can be made over a long time frame and they do not have to be driven by ideology. That may or may not be bollocks, but it fits exactly with what has been said today.
That may have been the intention, but it has not been the overall effect of what Labour has said or done. It has banged on about "Tory cuts" and has made austerity synonymous with the coalition. It has not been able to identify a single area of budget reduction that it has agreed with the government on and is content with. In fact it has not been bold with many proposed cuts at all: even when Rachel Reeves says "we'll be tougher on welfare than the Tories" this line is, perhaps unsurprisingly, never repeated in words or substance.
Or any mention of the story in yesterday's chip paper re the mere £7.5bn anti-avoidance measures.
Douglas Carswell seems a bit cranky on twitter, because Rob Ford finds it odd that Farage has come to Clacton today.
I'm finding it terribly amusing.
you can be so childish...
Rob Ford (Britain)@robfordmancs Clacton is UKIP's only (probably) safe seat. Seems a bit of a waste of a vital campaign day for Farage to hang around there.
Nick Barlow@nickjbarlow·45m45 minutes ago @robfordmancs but if he didn't go, wouldn't press ask 'why aren't you helping Carswell?'
Totally disagree. Labour has been saying the same thing for a few years: cuts do have to be made but they can be made better, they can be made over a long time frame and they do not have to be driven by ideology. That may or may not be bollocks, but it fits exactly with what has been said today.
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
Totally disagree. Labour has been saying the same thing for a few years: cuts do have to be made but they can be made better, they can be made over a long time frame and they do not have to be driven by ideology. That may or may not be bollocks, but it fits exactly with what has been said today.
A reckless cut does not have to be the same as a cut - and most voters recognise that. Labour's issue is much more about whether they sound credible than whether they are alienating a large swathe of voters who might go out and back an end to austerity but would prefer a Tory government to make cuts than a Labour one.
I think you're right but wrong (!)
A logical examination of the situation might lead one to conclude what you yourself conclude .
But most voters won't do that. the average voter seems as usual to want their cake and to eat it as well. So they want fewer cuts and "an end to austerity" as well as no bad economic consequences of borrowing too much. Labour's new found commitment to austerity will just confuse them, the distinction between "good" and "bad" cuts is hard to see. Motivating Labour voters to go and vote would be easier by saying "no more cuts" rather than "sensible cuts" or some such mushy rubbish.
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
Totally disagree. Labour has been saying the same thing for a few years: cuts do have to be made but they can be made better, they can be made over a long time frame and they do not have to be driven by ideology. That may or may not be bollocks, but it fits exactly with what has been said today.
A reckless cut does not have to be the same as a cut - and most voters recognise that. Labour's issue is much more about whether they sound credible than whether they are alienating a large swathe of voters who might go out and back an end to austerity but would prefer a Tory government to make cuts than a Labour one.
Can you please give us a list of the cuts that the coalition has made over the last five years that the Labour Party supported and did not oppose or vote against?
Sometimes it seems that the trick modern politicians are trying to pull with the electorate is to have them believe that the solution to squaring the circle - of paying for high quality public services with low taxes - is that the circle exists in a quantum superposition of states where it is simultaneously also a square.
In the spirit of Terry Pratchett, I suggest that the crucial element politicians need to pull this off is "credibilitium". Enough of this and they can say any old inconsistent bollocks and the electorate will swallow it anyway.
So to explain Labour's messaging goes something like this. They've long established that the Tories are evil and have cut lots. Labour won't cut so much. The Labour hope is that this is now established as a given, an axiom. Now, by reference to recent Tory spending pledges, and the magic words of "fully funded" for their own spending pledges, they will try to simultaneously create the impression that the Tories will irresponsibly spend more than Labour, while still cutting more.
This will work, if Labour have more in the way of credibilitium than the Tories.
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
Do Labour even realise what they've done? They've now blown up one of their main attack lines for getting reluctant Labour voters to the polls: "just think of the damage the Tories will do to public services with reckless cuts".
Totally disagree. Labour has been saying the same thing for a few years: cuts do have to be made but they can be made better, they can be made over a long time frame and they do not have to be driven by ideology. That may or may not be bollocks, but it fits exactly with what has been said today.
A reckless cut does not have to be the same as a cut - and most voters recognise that. Labour's issue is much more about whether they sound credible than whether they are alienating a large swathe of voters who might go out and back an end to austerity but would prefer a Tory government to make cuts than a Labour one.
I'm just sceptical because it's NEVER worked for them before. They spent most of 2014 trying this trick, and their poll ratings crumbled the whole time.
Comments
Well the finer details are for the pen pushers to sort out.. the general principle is easy to follow... if its your own fault though being drunk, its not free to get patched up
A&E is unaffected I think.
So if asked, you would have time to find details.
Anecdotally again, many of the worst excesses of "NHS tourism" focus around heart disease....
In the early stages Labour were at "tories are going to cut too much", now it seems they are at "tories are going to spend too much"
The same Mr Gove who urged the Scots to vote Labour?
Weak stuff from Gove. He's forgotten Len McCluskey.
Means the SNP aren't going to gain many seats from the Lib Dems, if this trend continues.
Okaaay.
I don't have a problem with a reformed 2nd chamber, but why can't there be called Lord-Lieutenants or LMP (Lord member of parliament) ?
It may also have a significant impact on the NHS, if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by.
Like many other such proposals it sounds good. However, how many people don't have passports?
McCluskey is only a bogey-man.
Alex Salmond has been fully made up to hate-figure.....
When you compute the ELBOW, do you account for :
1. Sample size
2. Frequency of Pollster [ e.g. Yougov may have had 7 polls whilst TNS maybe only once ].
If you do take into account all polls in the week do you "downweight" Yougov ?
The logical, sensible, crosbyite solution to this imaginary problem is ID cards.
Open goal.
SNP "Seatspotting" at 38 by the way.
Of course if you don't actually want to leave the EU that won't bother you. But it will also negate any comment you can make on the subject.
So completely the wrong response by the Tories, but par for the course.
Who in the core marginals the Tories need to retain/win really gives a fig about Sturgeon and Salmond?
I drove through Colne yesterday, a town in the Pendle constituency which the Tories hold by about 3,000 votes. On the main street is a big billboard of Salmond with EdM in his top pocket. Here we are in a hard-working, respectable working class former milltown in Lancashire, where local folk are concerned about jobs, immigrants, so-called cuts, the continued repercussions of the last Labour Govt (but many assume it was Cameron) closing the local A&E, and the Tory billboard words of comfort on their main street are all about Salmond having the Labour leader in his pocket - for many folk in Colne (and no disrespect to them), they won't know who Salmond is, or Ed, and many won't even get the point even if they do.
I just thought it epitomised in one stupid poster how pathetic and ill-conceived this Tory campaign is, and why they are going to lose the General Election.
http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/news/2015/labour-s-manifesto-pledge-immigration
Open goal.
No. It is not about A&E - all get treated there. It is about somebody from the sub-Continent who speaks no English and presents for a heart by-pass operation.
Before you get on the operating table, show us your passport please....or similar evidence that we aren't doing some other country's healthcare on the British taxpayers' purse.
Who in the core marginals the Tories need to retain/win really gives a fig about Sturgeon and Salmond?
I drove through Colne yesterday, a town in the Pendle constituency which the Tories hold by about 3,000 votes. On the main street is a big billboard of Salmond with EdM in his top pocket. Here we are in a hard-working, respectable working class former milltown in Lancashire, where local folk are concerned about jobs, immigrants, so-called cuts, the continued repercussions of the last Labour Govt (but many assume it was Cameron) closing the local A&E, and the Tory billboard words of comfort on their main street are all about Salmond having the Labour leader in his pocket - for many folk in Colne (and no disrespect to them), they won't know who Salmond is, or Ed, and many won't even get the point even if they do.
I just thought it epitomised in one stupid poster how pathetic and ill-conceived this Tory campaign is, and why they are going to lose the General Election.
Colne Valley could be very, very close.
Who in the core marginals the Tories need to retain/win really gives a fig about Sturgeon and Salmond?
I drove through Colne yesterday, a town in the Pendle constituency which the Tories hold by about 3,000 votes. On the main street is a big billboard of Salmond with EdM in his top pocket. Here we are in a hard-working, respectable working class former milltown in Lancashire, where local folk are concerned about jobs, immigrants, so-called cuts, the continued repercussions of the last Labour Govt (but many assume it was Cameron) closing the local A&E, and the Tory billboard words of comfort on their main street are all about Salmond having the Labour leader in his pocket - for many folk in Colne (and no disrespect to them), they won't know who Salmond is, or Ed, and many won't even get the point even if they do.
I just thought it epitomised in one stupid poster how pathetic and ill-conceived this Tory campaign is, and why they are going to lose the General Election.
You are not very good at this astroturfing lark Bob.
What is UKIP's problem with democracy?
Before you get on the operating table, show us your passport please....or similar evidence that we aren't doing some other country's healthcare on the British taxpayers' purse.
White Zimbabwean, Canadian, Australian, Kiwi, South African is OK, I take it.
On a read of what has actually been put into print, it strikes me as perhaps the most "right wing" Labour manifesto of all time, probably more centrist/centre-right economically anything even Blair put before us? The 1997 manifesto and pledge cards had an all-pervasive leftism about them. I've been posting on PB for well over 10 years. Anyone who has done the same will know full well where my inclinations lie.
How does your open borders for everyone work on the nhs ?
Not voting Labour now
Ah the leftie snide racism accusations grate just as much when they're aimed at Tories.. good to know it wasn't me being over sensitive
The hilarity is this is when Labour had finally got some momentum, before they then shot themselves in the foot yet again. They REALLY don't want to win this election do they.
There's no mention of the Lib Dems at all, and just one sentence attacking UKIP, saying that like the Tories they "would increase privatisation in the NHS and slash services."
Presumably, this means Labour think there's more of a threat here from UKIP than from the Lib Dems. There's no realistic chance of them losing, but a strong second place from UKIP might be a little embarrassing.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/economising-with-the-truth/#comments
http://www.historytoday.com/sites/default/files/articles/labourclears_0.jpg
I wouldn't be shocked or surprised to see the Lib Dems in all the other Sheffield seats to collapse on a scale larger than the national trend
I reckoned he'd fall short and get barely 300 seats. I wasn't far wrong then, and Dave appears not to have learned much...
Clegg "Miliband's borrowing claim like 'an alcoholic who drinks a bottle of vodka every day claiming they've no plans for additional vodka'
Harry to get over 50% of the vote though. In fact you can probably take the vote from last time and just switch Lib Dem and UKIP for a decent guess at Hillsborough.
I'm finding it terribly amusing.
No idea about the party. Have never heard of it. Sorry.
BTW thanks for your response on the previous thread. M Nawaz has been very open about his Islamist past so can't imagine what the Mail thought it was doing, other than to try and smear every Muslim as a terrorist. Which is despicable.
I don't think he will win but I hope he does stay in politics. Interestingly both the Lib Dems and the Tories have been focusing on housing in the local campaign.
In the spirit of Terry Pratchett, I suggest that the crucial element politicians need to pull this off is "credibilitium". Enough of this and they can say any old inconsistent bollocks and the electorate will swallow it anyway.
So to explain Labour's messaging goes something like this. They've long established that the Tories are evil and have cut lots. Labour won't cut so much. The Labour hope is that this is now established as a given, an axiom. Now, by reference to recent Tory spending pledges, and the magic words of "fully funded" for their own spending pledges, they will try to simultaneously create the impression that the Tories will irresponsibly spend more than Labour, while still cutting more.
This will work, if Labour have more in the way of credibilitium than the Tories.
A reckless cut does not have to be the same as a cut - and most voters recognise that. Labour's issue is much more about whether they sound credible than whether they are alienating a large swathe of voters who might go out and back an end to austerity but would prefer a Tory government to make cuts than a Labour one.
He is honest and always says it how he sees it, for which he should be respected.
It has only been enlivened by the glorious promise of the destruction of SLAB by the SNP.
Otherwise, I really don't care much whether the winner is a man who can't eat a bacon roll or a man who doesn't eat hot pasties.
That confidence was expressed in a family situation though!
According to Google, the "U" party has been set up to sort out pensions and Robin Ellison is a pensions partner.
Labour cuts = Gentle, Good.
This is getting ridiculous.
:-)
http://www.itv.com/news/london/2015-04-13/nigel-farage-is-the-latest-headline-act-at-a-famous-essex-nightspot/
Nigel Farage will follow in the footsteps of stand-up comedians and darts players to become the latest headline act at a famous Essex nightspot.
Rob Ford (Britain)@robfordmancs
Clacton is UKIP's only (probably) safe seat. Seems a bit of a waste of a vital campaign day for Farage to hang around there.
Nick Barlow@nickjbarlow·45m45 minutes ago
@robfordmancs but if he didn't go, wouldn't press ask 'why aren't you helping Carswell?'
Douglas Carswell @DouglasCarswell·14m14 minutes ago
@nickjbarlow @robfordmancs indeed
Rob Ford (Britain)@robfordmancs·13m13 minutes ago
@DouglasCarswell @nickjbarlow Odd of you to worry about what the Westminster press think Douglas
Douglas Carswell @DouglasCarswell·10m10 minutes ago
@robfordmancs @nickjbarlow I don't. Or indeed academics
@JimForScotland: Ed was really clear at the UK manifesto launch today. It's only Labour that will end austerity. https://t.co/4lUgw5Ra2c
Rod Sherrin @SherrinThePain 10m10 minutes ago
BBC News - Trio defect from Lib Dems to UKIP http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-32283121 …
A logical examination of the situation might lead one to conclude what you yourself conclude .
But most voters won't do that. the average voter seems as usual to want their cake and to eat it as well. So they want fewer cuts and "an end to austerity" as well as no bad economic consequences of borrowing too much. Labour's new found commitment to austerity will just confuse them, the distinction between "good" and "bad" cuts is hard to see. Motivating Labour voters to go and vote would be easier by saying "no more cuts" rather than "sensible cuts" or some such mushy rubbish.