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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Looks like LAB is preparing for LD coalition negotiations

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  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: ICM living up to their "gold standard" reputation. Sending Twitter round the f**king bend: not gold but priceless.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    antifrank said:

    That would be just about my worst result imaginable. Hmph.
    Labour sub 250 if this is the score.

    Hopefully.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    After a wobbly week ... wow
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Is there any chance I can get away with pinning ICM on Labour's "spend less than the Tories" manifesto? :D
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I can barely breathe in for laughing. And what did the Guardian have as a front page? :wink:

    This is going to be amusing.

    Sits back with popcorn.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655
    Scotland won't make any difference, as even on those numbers, the Tories would have one Scottish seat. The only question would be the make-up of the opposition.

    As an aside, I don't think a near total LibDem wipe-out in the SW is out of the question. It's possible you could see the LibDems reduced to Yeovil, Westmoreland, O&S, and one or two others (including Cambridge, obviously).
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Truly astonishing poll in more ways than one (all probably interconnected!).

    The lead is one issue but UKIP and Greens tied in fourth place - no other pollster has this!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    @antifrank - with MoE and extra Tory sample, this could be consistent with a general Tory lead of 1-2%.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    That polling is astonishingly good for the Conservatives. But even gold standards can have outliers.

    It is the third ICM poll in a row with the Conservatives at or above 36%. And UKIP's share is a very low (even by ICM's standards) 7%. Presumably these are connected.

    This election is going to make or break some pollsters' reputations.

    6 weeks before last years Euros ICM had Labour on 36% and UKIP in 3rd on 20%
    4 weeks later they had the Conservatives in the lead

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(United_Kingdom)
    Same week 2010, ICM was overstating Labour

    CM/Guardian 2010-04-11 37 31 20

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2015
    rcs1000 said:



    As an aside, I don't think a near total LibDem wipe-out in the SW is out of the question. It's possible you could see the LibDems reduced to Yeovil, Westmoreland, O&S, and one or two others (including Cambridge, obviously).

    Yup, that's one less-discussed aspect of a good Tory performance: it will turn the Lib Dems' night from disaster into absolute carnage. Even if the LDs hold up comparatively well in the Con/LD marginals, the margins are so small that they still will be knocked out in most of them if the Tory share is static or rising on 2010.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    That polling is astonishingly good for the Conservatives. But even gold standards can have outliers.

    It is the third ICM poll in a row with the Conservatives at or above 36%. And UKIP's share is a very low (even by ICM's standards) 7%. Presumably these are connected.

    This election is going to make or break some pollsters' reputations.


    Good. It should reduce the "groupthink" tendency more frequent polling is bringing.
    The pollsters have no clear handle on how to allow for UKIP. ICM have them at 7% today, Populus (which has never been particularly purple-friendly) has them at 15%. Survation have them higher still.

    Betting on which pollster is right is effectively betting on which understands UKIP best.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    If that Baxter was accurate with the 6 SNP seats I'd be stuck like a pig lol
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    weejonnie said:

    SeanT said:

    Clear outlier. But.... HAHAHAHAHA

    The Guardian should make entertaining reading for the next 12 hours.

    "The day the Polls Moved ... "
    ... back.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,956
    *comes back*

    What's been happening?

    Conservatives take six-point lead in Guardian/ICM poll

    BLOODY HELL!!!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    OUTLIER OUTLIER OUTLIER!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Wow. What the hell is that poll. Gold standard pollster as well.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    Does that poll confirm that all the Tories have now returned home from Easter hols?

    Nice numbers but plainly wrong. UKIP on 7? Come off it....
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Well quite
    Danny565 said:

    What do you mean "even before adjusting for Scotland"? Scotland wouldn't affect how many seats the Tories get.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    @antifrank - with MoE and extra Tory sample, this could be consistent with a general Tory lead of 1-2%.

    In a way, it doesn't matter. Party confidence will be important, as will the vague perception that e.g. UKIP will be a wasted vote as postal votes go out. So an outlier can still have an effect, just as Lab lead +6 drew (I suspect) some early Tory policies from the manifesto.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Front page tomorrow:

    "The day the polls turned back"

    Presumably.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    OUTLIER OUTLIER OUTLIER!

    Does that move your Elbow ?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    As the great Bill Mac would say,

    There'll be a lot of happy folk in Auchentennach tonight...
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Six-point lead. LOL.

    Like I've said before, just imagine how different the narrative would be if we had daily ICM phone polls and monthly YouGov online polls.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    What do you mean "even before adjusting for Scotland"? Scotland wouldn't affect how many seats the Tories get.
    Labour on about 240 - would be profitable for me !
    There's some 13/2 about on Lab 226-250. Even if you don't fully buy into this poll (and who does?) it's still value imo.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    antifrank said:

    That would be just about my worst result imaginable. Hmph.
    Mine too. Might need to reverse some of the Labour Maj. A Conservative majority is something I had all but ruled out.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    That would be just about my worst result imaginable. Hmph.
    Labour sub 250 if this is the score.

    Hopefully.
    That would be a compensation, I grant you. If they're going to get an overall majority though, I'd prefer the Conservatives to do still better and get Labour into one of the lower bands that I covered at still longer odds.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Oh my life - check out the Scottish subsample.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    Did Kinnock have a rally or something? Almost unheard of poll movement for this parliament....

    40% strategy knocks a 35% 'soak the rich' strategy out of the park.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    TGOHF said:

    OUTLIER OUTLIER OUTLIER!

    Does that move your Elbow ?
    This was the state of play on Sunday, the last end-of-week ELBOW (12th of April) - Remember an ELBOW week (regarding fieldwork end-dates) runs from Sunday to Saturday.

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/587381169324498944
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Just seen the Gold Standard poll -wow - outlier?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Labour on 12% in Scotland, Tories 35 !
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    Nothing on Comment is Free yet. Guardianistas speechless?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited April 2015
    Take one last look at http://may2015.com/category/seat-calculator/ before they update.

    We will not see a Labour lead again in our lifetimes this campaign.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    UKIP on 7% and Greens on 7% looks a bit weird.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Pulpstar said:

    Labour on 12% in Scotland, Tories 35 !

    Did they exclusively poll in Ayr?! Lol
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Biggest rogue poll since the IndyRef
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Hmm, those personal ratings being so spectacularly out of line with other pollsters are making me suspicious.

    I mean, Clegg rated higher than Ed?!?!?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Bloody irritating that betfair is currently suffering a DDOS attack.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    Lefties On The Verge Of A Nervous Breakdown!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    SeanT said:

    The kippers do seem to be returning. They don't trust the Scots.

    Hard to say. Certainly ICM, Opinium, Com Res, and the last Ashcroft poll have shown a shift from UKIP to Conservative. OTOH, Yougov, Populus, TNS, Panelbase, Survation, all continue to show UKIP polling 13-18%. I certainly don't think UKIP will poll as little as 7%, but nor do I see the party polling in the high teens.

    There's now a very clear inverse correlation between Conservative and UKIP scores in polls.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Labour on 12% in Scotland, Tories 35 !

    It's Brigadoon....its Briga- bloody - doon
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,780
    BOOOOOOM!!!!!
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Pulpstar said:

    Labour on 12% in Scotland, Tories 35 !

    Did they exclusively poll in Ayr?! Lol
    That's actually good news for the Tories. It means they'll be correspondingly underweight in England.
  • SaltireSaltire Posts: 525
    This is also very bad news for the Libdems is the SW. Could be down to a dozen or so MPs which is where they were in 1979!
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited April 2015
    Wot no new thread?

    Presumably, it's taking a while to compose a headline title that's negative towards the Tories.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    antifrank said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    That polling is astonishingly good for the Conservatives. But even gold standards can have outliers.

    It is the third ICM poll in a row with the Conservatives at or above 36%. And UKIP's share is a very low (even by ICM's standards) 7%. Presumably these are connected.

    This election is going to make or break some pollsters' reputations.


    Good. It should reduce the "groupthink" tendency more frequent polling is bringing.
    The pollsters have no clear handle on how to allow for UKIP. ICM have them at 7% today, Populus (which has never been particularly purple-friendly) has them at 15%. Survation have them higher still.

    Betting on which pollster is right is effectively betting on which understands UKIP best.
    And who turns out. The Tory core vote of the over 60s generally turns out in all weathers,but Labour's better ground game in the key marginals may even that out.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    The kippers do seem to be returning. They don't trust the Scots.

    Hard to say. Certainly ICM, Opinium, Com Res, and the last Ashcroft poll have shown a shift from UKIP to Conservative. OTOH, Yougov, Populus, TNS, Panelbase, Survation, all continue to show UKIP polling 13-18%. I certainly don't think UKIP will poll as little as 7%, but nor do I see the party polling in the high teens.

    There's now a very clear inverse correlation between Conservative and UKIP scores in polls.
    UKIP steadying the ship in ELBOW, 13.7% two Sundays in a row now:

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/587377968634318848

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,780
    Rogue poll!!! Rogue poll!!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Brown trouser time for Labour.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    SeanT Looks like the US Presidential 2016 will be 'brilliantly unpredictable' too. This is an excellent analysis by Nate Silver (excellent as it entirely endorses my own far less rigorous analysis!). It is officially a toss up and will stay there at least until well into 2016.

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-begins-the-2016-campaign-and-its-a-toss-up/
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,780
    Paging the Guardian.....
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Probably slightly overstating Con and understating UKIP but looks right.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    Grandiose said:

    @antifrank - with MoE and extra Tory sample, this could be consistent with a general Tory lead of 1-2%.

    In a way, it doesn't matter. Party confidence will be important, as will the vague perception that e.g. UKIP will be a wasted vote as postal votes go out. So an outlier can still have an effect, just as Lab lead +6 drew (I suspect) some early Tory policies from the manifesto.
    True that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,950
    Crikey. I wander off to buy some plants - and Dave gets a majority!

    I shall now plant up all of Devon for the next three weeks.
  • All this probably means Lord A has Lab ahead.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,718
    W Indies win the toss and bowl. Cook & Trott to open.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,950

    All this probably means Lord A has Lab ahead.

    Nah - 9% Tory lead! Never knowingly under-bounced....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    It does look a little bit roguey. Maybe UKIP under by 2-3% and Tories overstated by 2-3%, but I'm guessing.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: May be wrong, but isn't that three "rogue" ICM polls in a row that have shown the Tories ahead?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    SeanT said:

    What a brilliantly unpredictable election. Great fun for us anoraks.

    I still think Miliband will scrape to some horribly narrow plurality, but a couple more polls like this...?

    With this poll volatility, there is surely lots of money to be made on the betting exchanges!
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited April 2015
    @Tissue_Price

    '"The day the polls turned back"

    Where have Compouter2/Tim, & Roger gone ?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    5% Conservative lead in England and Wales (but distorted by 35% vote share in Scotland!)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Wot no new thread?

    Presumably, it's taking a while to compose a headline title that's negative towards the Tories.

    I thought Mike wasn't about?

    When he doesn't write the threads, they read as if they were written in a foreign language and translated through babelfish. So maybe that's down like Betfair
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited April 2015
    The last time that the Conservatives polled at 39% with ICM was just before the omnishambles budget.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    Oh BTW:
    LibDems on 8.2% in yesterday's ELBOW, their biggest score since August!

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/587376864668286976
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Outlier. But LOL.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    john_zims said:

    @Tissue_Price

    '"The day the polls turned back"

    Where have Compouter2,Roger & Murali gone ?


    Reporting for duty! I'm still with SeanT on this - Ed Milliband will be PM, but only just!
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,780
    isam said:

    Wot no new thread?

    Presumably, it's taking a while to compose a headline title that's negative towards the Tories.

    I thought Mike wasn't about?

    When he doesn't write the threads, they read as if they were written in a foreign language and translated through babelfish. So maybe that's down like Betfair
    Mikes probably got brown pants over his spread betting position on these figures...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,950

    Pulpstar said:

    Labour on 12% in Scotland, Tories 35 !

    Did they exclusively poll in Ayr?! Lol
    Just the golf clubs...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Makes Dave's decision not to do the BBC debate on Thursday the right one.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    It'd be funny if CON Gain East Renfrewshire.

    In fact this is probably a bad poll for Murphy in particular as he may not get Con-> Lab tacticals.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    All this probably means Lord A has Lab ahead.

    I reckon it will be a ten point Tory lead :)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415

    isam said:

    Wot no new thread?

    Presumably, it's taking a while to compose a headline title that's negative towards the Tories.

    I thought Mike wasn't about?

    When he doesn't write the threads, they read as if they were written in a foreign language and translated through babelfish. So maybe that's down like Betfair
    Mikes probably got brown pants over his spread betting position on these figures...
    Some of us pointed out the risks...
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @murali_s

    'Reporting for duty! I'm still with SeanT on this - Ed Milliband will be PM, but only just!

    Good for you, at least you don't do a runner when you get a poll you don't like.
  • ukelectukelect Posts: 140
    Wow. That poll would have the Conservatives on 305 seats and Labour on 247. (And if I turn all the "sophiticated" stuff off when forecasting make that more like 320 Conservative seats!
  • ItwasriggedItwasrigged Posts: 154
    I just popped two more ribs from laughing so much. Let the get Millibland witch hunt begin. :)
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Worth remembering that February's ICM had a Tory lead of 4% so not too out of line with that sort of lead (March was only a 1% lead and looks more likely to be the outlier).

    But let's see what Lord Ashcroft's (phone) poll says
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    Where is NicK Palmer and what does he think about the right wing manifesto
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    UKIP outpolled by Greens in the North. Tories ahead of Labour in the North and Labour ahead of Tories in the Midlands. ICM should have buried this one out of embarrassment!
  • WelshBertieWelshBertie Posts: 124
    Probably a rogue but that's going to knock the wind out of Ed's sails. But it's ICM and as SeanT said, can't be totally disregarded given their gold-standard status. Perfect timing for tomorrow's manifesto launch. Pity the poor saps in the Guardian upon receiving it...must have choked on their quinoa.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    It's interesting that the poll rubbishers who were missing the other week when we had some good Labour polls are out in force today. suggested thread header "Tories struggle to get beyond a 6 point lead" ? :)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    They phoned up 90 people in Scotland, and found 9 Labour voters. There's probably a shy Labour effect here to be perfectly honest but I reckon Davidson may well have won over some of the ABC Labour rump.
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Btw presumably ICM are doing more polls before the election?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Freggles said:

    Biggest rogue poll since the IndyRef

    Yup. Still: HAHAHAHAHAHA. Aaahh....
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Pollsters eh... 6 pt lab lead, now 6pt Tory lead

    39% looks toppish to say the least for the tories, no?

    When is the last time they have been on 39%??

    Guardian say early 2012, before the Omnishambles budget.

    Labour haven't been on 39% since August 2014 (with Populus) or March 2013 with ICM itself.

    Even if it is an outlier, it's hard to have an outlier on 39% if your true level of support is not the right side of 35%, particularly as the two previous ICM polls had the Tories on 36%.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,950
    felix said:

    It's interesting that the poll rubbishers who were missing the other week when we had some good Labour polls are out in force today. suggested thread header "Tories struggle to get beyond a 6 point lead" ? :)

    Surely it will be "Cameron still not certain of majority"......
  • antifrank said:

    Grandiose said:

    antifrank said:

    That polling is astonishingly good for the Conservatives. But even gold standards can have outliers.

    It is the third ICM poll in a row with the Conservatives at or above 36%. And UKIP's share is a very low (even by ICM's standards) 7%. Presumably these are connected.

    This election is going to make or break some pollsters' reputations.


    Good. It should reduce the "groupthink" tendency more frequent polling is bringing.
    The pollsters have no clear handle on how to allow for UKIP. ICM have them at 7% today, Populus (which has never been particularly purple-friendly) has them at 15%. Survation have them higher still.

    Betting on which pollster is right is effectively betting on which understands UKIP best.
    And who turns out. The Tory core vote of the over 60s generally turns out in all weathers,but Labour's better ground game in the key marginals may even that out.
    Indeed. A gap of Tories 6 ahead vs 6 behind is just too wide. Someone's badly wrong. FWIW I think also the UKIP numbers depend critically on WHERE the support is coming from geographically. Labour have collapsed in Scotland as the Scots have realised it is the Islington Guardianista party for welfare immigrants (so to speak) and has utterly abandoned the WWC. UKIP is really a WWC party for the non-PC left or non-PC right - and may in the long run be more of a threat to Labour. If UKIP growth has really been in the North and retreat in the South then Labour are very fucked. If the UKIP numbers remain mainly in Tory seats and only very minimally eating into Labour WWC votes up north then Dave is in deep doodoo. I'm hoping the ex-Tory kippers are getting scared at the prospect of PM Miliband and holding their noses to vote blue.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    What has changed to give this poll lead?

    Seems a bit weird.

    Not helpful to Ed on the day of his manifesto launch though.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @currystar

    'Where is NicK Palmer and what does he think about the right wing manifesto'

    He's out canvassing in a Tory ward and already found five Con to Lab switchers.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    They phoned up 90 people in Scotland, and found 9 Labour voters.

    Careful. You are displaying the early symptoms of a bout of surgitis.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    SeanT said:

    I'm calling this a rogue poll (even tho I like it - so I'm not breaking the Golden Rule), however as it is ICM we can't just junk it.

    So. It suggests to me an actual Tory lead of 2-3%. Cameron can still win this.

    The last time I decided that an ICM poll was an outlier was when it showed the Cons on 36 with a 4 point lead a couple of months ago, in the end all of the other polls moved in line with that picture. I don't want to rule this poll as an outlier too quickly.

    I also don't see evidence of a high Tory sample, the 2010 vote shares are pretty much in line with the result. The Scotland subsample looks very strange though.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,718
    England now 1-1. Trott caught at slip.
  • New Thread
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jonathon Trott = Ed Miliband

    Reports of his comeback were exaggerated.
  • ukelectukelect Posts: 140
    I find it difficult to believe the Green and UKIP and Scottish poll figures..

    It's beginning to look like the pollsters are struggling to cope with the complexities of a multi-party system - but who is right and who is wrong?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    May2015, the "nonpartisan" forecaster, is looking to unskew this poll:

    https://twitter.com/May2015NS/status/587616065053663233
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    OGH normally has up the Eng and Wales figures..wonder what they are on this?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Brom said:

    UKIP outpolled by Greens in the North. Tories ahead of Labour in the North and Labour ahead of Tories in the Midlands. ICM should have buried this one out of embarrassment!

    The margin of error on the subsamples is huge. You can't use them to decide whether a poll is rubbish or not.
This discussion has been closed.