The CAZ was set up (in 2022) in response to a legal mandate from the then Tory government; reportedly, Burnham recused himself from involvement in the details because his wife had done marketing work for one of the companies involved.
Two years later she became a marketing director of said company.
It was publicly aired both in 2022 and 2024.
Unless there's something new, this is warming over pretty thin, old gruel, but good luck to the UK press in explaining exactly why this is a scandal.
Melania Trump got $28 million for the documentary about her, a film whose total box office take to date is less than $17 million.
The Pentagon has lent $620 million to a start-up partly owned by Donald Trump Jnr.
President Trump lowered tariffs on Vietnam after negotiations that included Vietnam fast-tracking a Trump Organization golf resort.
The US Air Force is spending an undisclosed amount of money in drones from Powerus, a company with links to Eric and Donald Jnr.
Eric and Don Jnr partly own a Kazakhstan mine that received $1.6 billion from the US government.
Jared Kushner has received over $110 million from the Saudi government, while also leading US diplomatic negotiations with Iran.
Another defense company backed by Eric Trump received $24 million from the Pentagon.
I’m just trying to remind @Sandpit what real corruption looks like.
That’s off the charts corruption. The benchmark for acceptable behaviour is far lower
Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.
Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.
I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.
1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.
2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
'You created a stick with which your critics beat your old party.'
Political Editor @ChristopherHope challenges former Prime Minister Boris Johnson on the effects of the Boriswave, a surge in immigration following Brexit, and whether it led to the growth of Reform.
The CAZ was set up (in 2022) in response to a legal mandate from the then Tory government; reportedly, Burnham recused himself from involvement in the details because his wife had done marketing work for one of the companies involved.
Two years later she became a marketing director of said company.
It was publicly aired both in 2022 and 2024.
Unless there's something new, this is warming over pretty thin, old gruel, but good luck to the UK press in explaining exactly why this is a scandal.
Heavily deployed Online in Makerfield to little effect.
And as that's the best they can find it also shows how clean Burnham is relative to say Kemi let alone Farage
He's not one motivated by money. Nor is his Missus. That's why they have lived in a nondescript street in Golborne for twenty years.
I have that on very good authority too.
Which would be quite a departure from most of the recent ones and not to be underestimated as a virtue. From one who knows and who told me in advance that he was standing I'm told he's as straight as they come. He even gives a percentage of his salary to charity
So as long has he kicks John Mann out of every Labour position he holds he'll get my vote
Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.
Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.
I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.
1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.
2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
I suspect for Braverman and Jenrick they read the tea leaves and thought Reform can take us up the greasy pole faster than the Conservatives can.
Lord Glasman, the Labour peer and founder of the influential Blue Labour group, said he is supporting Al Carns to be the next PM.
"He's a soldier, he understands defence and he understands the next war," Lord Glasman told the Telegraph.
Al_Carns has about as much chance of getting the MP nominations and defeating Burnham with the members as his near namesake, Northern_Al.
I dunno. I'd vote for you as Prime Minister even though I'd have some reservations about your line on the DfE.
Cheers mate. I hereby offer to recuse myself from any DfE or associated education decisions. In fact, I may even abolish the DfE, just for you.
How do you feel about abolishing VAT on cat food?
Absolutely not. But dog food, yes, as there are two in my household, both belonging to my better half.
"You keep dog food in your fridge???"
Mr Dog’s food is mostly in the freezer. He has so much in there that sometimes I struggle to fit in my own Waitrose frozen herbs and the odd pizza or two. If I want to splash out on something like handmade frozen Bradford curries (a shout out to Chef Akila) I have to very carefully choreograph the delivery date in relation to his food delivery dates and then live on curries for the fortnight thereafter, with complete disregard to the gastrointestinal consequences.
They do sell chilled dog food now. I don't know any brand names (not having a dog) but it's there (at least in Sainsbury's).
Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.
Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.
I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.
1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.
2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
I understood he was going to advise Farage on how Benefits work in the UK and what might be done about it (Paging Malc and Taz). However Burnham has his own heavyweight for that area in the shape of Kate Green.
TLDR: Her background with CPAG strongly suggests there won't be much of a cutback in that area. CPAG are *the* leading experts in this area and their published handbooks are the go to source for benefits and other related advice,
For those that want to fact check the Daily Mail, Telegraph and Express you can purchase an online version of Benefits for Migrants Handbook here. It's now in its 15th edition.
Good news for the dole out money to the economically inactive or useless brigade is that it is being reported in the ipaper tonight that Burnham will not go forward with the retrospective change to ILR from 5 to 10 years
Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.
Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.
I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.
1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.
2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
Burnham won't have Starmer's utter tin-ear for politics, so an improvement on that front, but that will only carry him for so long.
Ultimately, as @Cyclefree said, the problem is Labour's policies.
He must clean out the stables, get shot of most of the mediocre cabinet who are less than useless. Get some new blood in with ideas and start massive changes to the whole crap structure. Until benefits are cut , triple lock changed , do something to sort out the shambles of a tax system and immigration sorted ( ie the illegal parts and the laissez faire policy of letting any old distant family member follow ) they will continue to slide to oblivion.
Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.
Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.
I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.
1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.
2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
Reform have no ideas for radical reform of the economy, other than wishful thinking and populism.
Right let's go. For all England WC games I wear an England football shirt. 1966 classic red edition. Bit tight for me now but no matter. I trust all patriots are doing the same.
The CAZ was set up (in 2022) in response to a legal mandate from the then Tory government; reportedly, Burnham recused himself from involvement in the details because his wife had done marketing work for one of the companies involved.
Two years later she became a marketing director of said company.
It was publicly aired both in 2022 and 2024.
Unless there's something new, this is warming over pretty thin, old gruel, but good luck to the UK press in explaining exactly why this is a scandal.
Melania Trump got $28 million for the documentary Iabout her, a film whose total box office take to date is less than $17 million.
The Pentagon has lent $620 million to a start-up partly owned by Donald Trump Jnr.
President Trump lowered tariffs on Vietnam after negotiations that included Vietnam fast-tracking a Trump Organization golf resort.
The US Air Force is spending an undisclosed amount of money in drones from Powerus, a company with links to Eric and Donald Jnr.
Eric and Don Jnr partly own a Kazakhstan mine that received $1.6 billion from the US government.
Jared Kushner has received over $110 million from the Saudi government, while also leading US diplomatic negotiations with Iran.
Another defense company backed by Eric Trump received $24 million from the Pentagon.
I’m just trying to remind @Sandpit what real corruption looks like.
That’s off the charts corruption. The benchmark for acceptable behaviour is far lower
But not with Maga apologists.
My issue was with @bondegezou describing Trump as “real corruption”. That implies anything less isn’t “real”
Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.
Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.
I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.
1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.
2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
I suspect for Braverman and Jenrick they read the tea leaves and thought Reform can take us up the greasy pole faster than the Conservatives can.
Them, yes. I thought we were talking about Danny Kruger
The CAZ was set up (in 2022) in response to a legal mandate from the then Tory government; reportedly, Burnham recused himself from involvement in the details because his wife had done marketing work for one of the companies involved.
Two years later she became a marketing director of said company.
It was publicly aired both in 2022 and 2024.
Unless there's something new, this is warming over pretty thin, old gruel, but good luck to the UK press in explaining exactly why this is a scandal.
Heavily deployed Online in Makerfield to little effect.
And as that's the best they can find it also shows how clean Burnham is relative to say Kemi let alone Farage
He's not one motivated by money. Nor is his Missus. That's why they have lived in a nondescript street in Golborne for twenty years.
I have that on very good authority too.
Which would be quite a departure from most of the recent ones and not to be underestimated as a virtue. From one who knows and who told me in advance that he was standing I'm told he's as straight as they come. He even gives a percentage of his salary to charity
So as long has he kicks John Mann out of every Labour position he holds he'll get my vote
He should make John Mann our deputy envoy to Tel Aviv.
Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.
Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.
I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.
1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.
2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
Reform have no ideas for radical reform of the economy, other than wishful thinking and populism.
Fuck Reform. They will take us nowhere.
I agree. But trying to understand why a non racist non careerist like Kruger would stay in reform
I believe Salford is doubling for Boston which maybe explains why in these cost cutting days the BBC are using three Mancunian ex players for their expert commentary.
About 15 Ghanaian guys off the Trawlers just taken in Taxis from the Port to a safe pub outside town where they can watch the match in peace and no aggro from any holiday makers looking to cause agro
Nice Touch from the Harbour Master and Trawler owners
Anyone who thinks Ukraine doesn't have the best and leading ground forces in Europe is completely deluding themselves.
Exhibit A - Vladimir Putin.
I was just trying to work out the last time Russia was involved in a war that lasted over four years (discounting the 2014 invasions of Crimea and Donbas). I keep coming back to the Kazakh rising of the 1830s-1840s.
Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.
Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.
I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.
1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.
2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
Reform have no ideas for radical reform of the economy, other than wishful thinking and populism.
Fuck Reform. They will take us nowhere.
I agree. But trying to understand why a non racist non careerist like Kruger would stay in reform
Pointy-head naivety. Creating social policy for an essentially new party, with no history to manoevre around, is fun. Who wouldn't like to design their perfect society on a blank sheet?
There was a small but vocal slice of something similar in 2016- if you want to be a policy wonk, not having to fit your ideas around the existing Euroregulations is more intellectually satisfying. Keeping all the nice consequences without any of their downsides, even more so.
Burnham won't have Starmer's utter tin-ear for politics, so an improvement on that front, but that will only carry him for so long.
Ultimately, as @Cyclefree said, the problem is Labour's policies.
He must clean out the stables, get shot of most of the mediocre cabinet who are less than useless. Get some new blood in with ideas and start massive changes to the whole crap structure. Until benefits are cut , triple lock changed , do something to sort out the shambles of a tax system and immigration sorted ( ie the illegal parts and the laissez faire policy of letting any old distant family member follow ) they will continue to slide to oblivion.
I suspect you will be disappointed…
There's some real talent in the Cabinet, they just need a leader and to be allowed to communicate properly
Burnham won't have Starmer's utter tin-ear for politics, so an improvement on that front, but that will only carry him for so long.
Ultimately, as @Cyclefree said, the problem is Labour's policies.
He must clean out the stables, get shot of most of the mediocre cabinet who are less than useless. Get some new blood in with ideas and start massive changes to the whole crap structure. Until benefits are cut , triple lock changed , do something to sort out the shambles of a tax system and immigration sorted ( ie the illegal parts and the laissez faire policy of letting any old distant family member follow ) they will continue to slide to oblivion.
I suspect you will be disappointed…
There's some real talent in the Cabinet, they just need a leader and to be allowed to communicate properly
Half of Britons say they would vote to rejoin the EU in a referendum, but there are two key barriers that could shape a real referendum:
Britons don’t really want to give up sovereignty: most Britons say it would not be worth limiting the British government’s powers for a closer relationship with the EU. All right-leaning segments say that accepting ECJ jurisdiction would be unacceptable.
The public worry about what kind of deal Britain would get from rejoining. Only 3 in 10 think the EU would offer favourable conditions for rejoining, while 45 per cent say they would try to punish us by offering unfavourable conditions. Across both sides of the debate, many worry about the prospect of returning to the EU “cap-in-hand”, with our place in the world diminished and our bargaining power weakened, and ending up with a bad deal.
Boris was thrown out because of cumulative scandal
Truss was ejected because of the markets, however that happened
Sunil was defenestrated by a comprehensive general election defeat
Sir Keirdaver is being thrown out because only about four people like him
And he won the biggest majority
Politics can be fucking weird..
All those ejections really are for the same reason really - the fear of unelectability. That is what motivated Tory MPs to remove Boris and Truss, and if you believe the rumours (and I do) they were about to move against Sunil, that's why he called a GE.
It'll be the tedious repetitive jokes.
Repetitive jokes like Keirdaver?
Which has been used precisely twice before this post?
And Keirdaver is so good that everyone should be using it
Dixie was referring to me of course.
I was gently joshing one of our most beloved posters. The one and only and irreplaceable Sunil.
Burnham to review the Barnett formula as it gave Scotland greater protection from austerity than the north of England had. What Scottish Labour MPs think about that not yet clear
Anyone who thinks Ukraine doesn't have the best and leading ground forces in Europe is completely deluding themselves.
Exhibit A - Vladimir Putin.
I was just trying to work out the last time Russia was involved in a war that lasted over four years (discounting the 2014 invasions of Crimea and Donbas). I keep coming back to the Kazakh rising of the 1830s-1840s.
Burnham to review the Barnett formula as it gave Scotland greater protection from austerity than the north of England had. What Scottish Labour MPs think about that not yet clear
Burnham to review the Barnett formula as it gave Scotland greater protection from austerity than the north of England had. What Scottish Labour MPs think about that not yet clear
Anyone who thinks Ukraine doesn't have the best and leading ground forces in Europe is completely deluding themselves.
Exhibit A - Vladimir Putin.
I was just trying to work out the last time Russia was involved in a war that lasted over four years (discounting the 2014 invasions of Crimea and Donbas). I keep coming back to the Kazakh rising of the 1830s-1840s.
Afghanistan 1979-1989?
Quite right. Can't think how I had overlooked that.
Although if we do include 2014 as the start date they've already gone past that.
Half of Britons say they would vote to rejoin the EU in a referendum, but there are two key barriers that could shape a real referendum:
Britons don’t really want to give up sovereignty: most Britons say it would not be worth limiting the British government’s powers for a closer relationship with the EU. All right-leaning segments say that accepting ECJ jurisdiction would be unacceptable.
The public worry about what kind of deal Britain would get from rejoining. Only 3 in 10 think the EU would offer favourable conditions for rejoining, while 45 per cent say they would try to punish us by offering unfavourable conditions. Across both sides of the debate, many worry about the prospect of returning to the EU “cap-in-hand”, with our place in the world diminished and our bargaining power weakened, and ending up with a bad deal.
Yes, the headline figures don't really reflect the mood of the British public. We've left the EU, politically and economically things have stabilised, and the predictions of both sides in the debate, positive or negative, have largely not come true.
Most people are okay with that, to greater and lesser degrees. Many would answer a survey question that they would like to be back in the EU, but in reality are not prepared for the sacrifices, or the toxic political debate, that would be required. They want the good parts of EU membership without the bad bits, which is never going to be on offer.
No PM is going to risk another referendum unless the public mood really shifts dramatically to an overwhelming, rock-solid pro-EU stance.
Before we get to a Join conversation, what does this do for our local politics? The fact of having left is unpopular, and neither "you're wrong, the Brexit water is lovely" nor "it may be dismal, but reversing it will be worse" feel like statements that will endear Parties of Leave to the general public.
The More In Common map of Brexit opinion is interesting as well;
The "only eleven constituencies would vote Leave" finding is a bit showy- lots of narrow outs flipping to narrow ins. But look at the list:
South Basildon and East Thurrock Dagenham and Rainham Castle Point South Holland and The Deepings Romford Hornchurch and Upminster Dudley Bexleyheath and Crayford Aldridge-Brownhills Boston and Skegness Rayleigh and Wickford
Three of them are in the London Borough of Havering, another three are in South Essex. We're not talking abandoned Red Wall, or Channel coast places overrun with small boats. Whatever the problems these areas have (and yes, life's not perfectly peachy), it's not totally obvious what they are, let alone why Brexit helps.
Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.
Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.
I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.
1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.
2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
Reform have no ideas for radical reform of the economy, other than wishful thinking and populism.
Fuck Reform. They will take us nowhere.
I agree. But trying to understand why a non racist non careerist like Kruger would stay in reform
Pointy-head naivety. Creating social policy for an essentially new party, with no history to manoevre around, is fun. Who wouldn't like to design their perfect society on a blank sheet?
There was a small but vocal slice of something similar in 2016- if you want to be a policy wonk, not having to fit your ideas around the existing Euroregulations is more intellectually satisfying. Keeping all the nice consequences without any of their downsides, even more so.
There is never any difficulty distinguishing a brain surgery conference from a PB discussion about Reform. I mean honestly, where does everyone pull this stuff from? Kruger's role within Reform is about implementation, it's not even about social policy. As for the tragicomic wishful thinking that Burnham being elected (to unseat Starmer) means that the rest of Labour will be now re-elected on a joyous wave of Cool Britannia, I really don't quite know where to start.
Burnham is being elected at a very difficult time for the country. We're facing decline in every area following 30 years of progressive consensus, and under Starmer that has gone from slow to fast. If Burnham decides he wants to solve the problems of Britain, he deserves support, and we won't need Farage. If he decides that all Starmerism needs to succeed is his own special brand of chummy matery, he's as good as gone.
Burnham to review the Barnett formula as it gave Scotland greater protection from austerity than the north of England had. What Scottish Labour MPs think about that not yet clear
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
Bullshit! Apart from a few on here I've hardly met anyone in the last ten years who didn't think it a disaster. I got so pissed off listening to the various programmes on it that I took myself off to France.
If anyone has any doubt just go and wonder why all the young bar staff are having such a great time and learning languages and wonder why there are no young English boys and girls.
...........and how they must hate all their old fogie grandparents who denied all this to them
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
Bullshit! Apart from a few on here I've hardly met anyone in the last ten years who didn't think it a disaster. I got so pissed off listening to the various programmes on it that I took myself off to France.
If anyone has any doubt just go and wonder why all the young bar staff are having such a great time and learning languages and wonder why there are no young English boys and girls.
...........and how they must hate all their old fogie grandparents who denied all this to them
If you think grandchildren 'hate' their grandparents because of Brexit then you do not know grandchildren at all
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
Bullshit! Apart from a few on here I've hardly met anyone in the last ten years who didn't think it a disaster. I got so pissed off listening to the various programmes on it that I took myself off to France.
If anyone has any doubt just go and wonder why all the young bar staff are having such a great time and learning languages and wonder why there are no young English boys and girls.
...........and how they must hate all their old fogie grandparents who denied all this to them
That's because you rarely speak to anyone with views different to your own, Roger. How often do you speak to Redorm voters for example? Yet they make up a quarter of the population.
Burnham to review the Barnett formula as it gave Scotland greater protection from austerity than the north of England had. What Scottish Labour MPs think about that not yet clear
Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.
Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.
I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.
1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.
2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
Reform have no ideas for radical reform of the economy, other than wishful thinking and populism.
Fuck Reform. They will take us nowhere.
I agree. But trying to understand why a non racist non careerist like Kruger would stay in reform
Pointy-head naivety. Creating social policy for an essentially new party, with no history to manoevre around, is fun. Who wouldn't like to design their perfect society on a blank sheet?
There was a small but vocal slice of something similar in 2016- if you want to be a policy wonk, not having to fit your ideas around the existing Euroregulations is more intellectually satisfying. Keeping all the nice consequences without any of their downsides, even more so.
There is never any difficulty distinguishing a brain surgery conference from a PB discussion about Reform. I mean honestly, where does everyone pull this stuff from? Kruger's role within Reform is about implementation, it's not even about social policy. As for the tragicomic wishful thinking that Burnham being elected (to unseat Starmer) means that the rest of Labour will be now re-elected on a joyous wave of Cool Britannia, I really don't quite know where to start.
Burnham is being elected at a very difficult time for the country. We're facing decline in every area following 30 years of progressive consensus, and under Starmer that has gone from slow to fast. If Burnham decides he wants to solve the problems of Britain, he deserves support, and we won't need Farage. If he decides that all Starmerism needs to succeed is his own special brand of chummy matery, he's as good as gone.
Just to point out- I didn't mention Burnham or Starmer. (FWIW, I'm expecting worse policy, snazzier presentation and we'll see how that goes down.) But revolutionary movements have always attracted clever people who see an opportunity to plan out their perfect society and the policies to make them happen. Nothing new about Kruger, nothing new about Reform there.
Burnham to review the Barnett formula as it gave Scotland greater protection from austerity than the north of England had. What Scottish Labour MPs think about that not yet clear
I'm going to call that trouble making because I just don't believe Burnham is talking to any journalists about anything at the moment.
Nature - and the media - abhors a vacuum.
Until Burnham gives them something to write they will make stuff up instead.
Burnham has an opportunity to turn the dial for labour but it is far too early to say by how much and when because the basic issues faced by Starmer remain
The first action he has to take is name his cabinet and remember this will be at the time of the summer recess, so I doubt much will happen before September and of course conference season
I expect both reform and the greens to fade with labour and the conservatives benefiting through the autumn
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
- Wes Streeting promised the Chancellorship for not running.
- Capital gains raised to match income tax. Possible exit tax.
- Economic focus: devolution, plus state ownership of cost-of-living essentials (energy, water, transport).
CGT increase is problematic for a whole host of reasons, among them making housing even more attractive as the store of your wealth than it already is.
Won’t come to a conclusion yet but I’m not getting good vibes.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
Bullshit! Apart from a few on here I've hardly met anyone in the last ten years who didn't think it a disaster. I got so pissed off listening to the various programmes on it that I took myself off to France.
If anyone has any doubt just go and wonder why all the young bar staff are having such a great time and learning languages and wonder why there are no young English boys and girls.
...........and how they must hate all their old fogie grandparents who denied all this to them
What I find so funny about this post is that you will totally fail to see the irony laced throughout it.
Before we get to a Join conversation, what does this do for our local politics? The fact of having left is unpopular, and neither "you're wrong, the Brexit water is lovely" nor "it may be dismal, but reversing it will be worse" feel like statements that will endear Parties of Leave to the general public.
The More In Common map of Brexit opinion is interesting as well;
The "only eleven constituencies would vote Leave" finding is a bit showy- lots of narrow outs flipping to narrow ins. But look at the list:
South Basildon and East Thurrock Dagenham and Rainham Castle Point South Holland and The Deepings Romford Hornchurch and Upminster Dudley Bexleyheath and Crayford Aldridge-Brownhills Boston and Skegness Rayleigh and Wickford
Three of them are in the London Borough of Havering, another three are in South Essex. We're not talking abandoned Red Wall, or Channel coast places overrun with small boats. Whatever the problems these areas have (and yes, life's not perfectly peachy), it's not totally obvious what they are, let alone why Brexit helps.
Apart from one they all have below average Englisg=h median earnings. There is a large mix in terms of none UK born residents, so perhaps more about being left behind than squeezed out.
Also they form an almost direct diagonal line from from Dudley to Hornschurch but there are quite a few that aren't in it. Sort of the midlands to me but hen I am from Glasgow!!!!!
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
Bullshit! Apart from a few on here I've hardly met anyone in the last ten years who didn't think it a disaster. I got so pissed off listening to the various programmes on it that I took myself off to France.
If anyone has any doubt just go and wonder why all the young bar staff are having such a great time and learning languages and wonder why there are no young English boys and girls.
...........and how they must hate all their old fogie grandparents who denied all this to them
That's because you rarely speak to anyone with views different to your own, Roger. How often do you speak to Redorm voters for example? Yet they make up a quarter of the population.
Well, worse than that.
If he hears views he doesn't like, he ignores them or fucks off.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Interesting that the Tory vote is pretty evenly split between Rejoin and Stay Out.
My prediction that it will be the Tories reverting to their pro-EU position of pre 2016 that will take us back in.
Before we get to a Join conversation, what does this do for our local politics? The fact of having left is unpopular, and neither "you're wrong, the Brexit water is lovely" nor "it may be dismal, but reversing it will be worse" feel like statements that will endear Parties of Leave to the general public.
The More In Common map of Brexit opinion is interesting as well;
The "only eleven constituencies would vote Leave" finding is a bit showy- lots of narrow outs flipping to narrow ins. But look at the list:
South Basildon and East Thurrock Dagenham and Rainham Castle Point South Holland and The Deepings Romford Hornchurch and Upminster Dudley Bexleyheath and Crayford Aldridge-Brownhills Boston and Skegness Rayleigh and Wickford
Three of them are in the London Borough of Havering, another three are in South Essex. We're not talking abandoned Red Wall, or Channel coast places overrun with small boats. Whatever the problems these areas have (and yes, life's not perfectly peachy), it's not totally obvious what they are, let alone why Brexit helps.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Interesting that the Tory vote is pretty evenly split between Rejoin and Stay Out.
My prediction that it will be the Tories reverting to their pro-EU position of pre 2016 that will take us back in.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Since when do the specifics matter? People voted for Brexit in 2016 with no real sense of what they’d actually get, the same would be the case in another referendum.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Interesting that the Tory vote is pretty evenly split between Rejoin and Stay Out.
My prediction that it will be the Tories reverting to their pro-EU position of pre 2016 that will take us back in.
Andy Burnham is expected to appoint a former Blairite cabinet minister who is one of his oldest political allies as his chief of staff as he seeks to overhaul No 10
James Purnell, who served as pensions minister, culture secretary, and work and pensions secretary in the New Labour governments of Sir Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, is the frontrunner for the role, The Times has been told
He is said to be viewed by Burnham as a “serious figure” who is capable of implementing his radical plans to reform Downing Street and Whitehall
The pair, who entered parliament together in 2001, shared an office as novice Greater Manchester MPs, with Burnham representing Leigh and Purnell holding Stalybridge & Hyde
Burnham frequently joked that he was overlooked for broadcast interviews in favour of Purnell, who was educated in France and Surrey
Purnell is chief executive of Flint Global, a major PR and lobbying firm, a role that may present issues over potential conflicts of interest in government
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Since when do the specifics matter? People voted for Brexit in 2016 with no real sense of what they’d actually get, the same would be the case in another referendum.
Er, no. The terms of Rejoin would be very clear, and totally on the table.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Since when do the specifics matter? People voted for Brexit in 2016 with no real sense of what they’d actually get, the same would be the case in another referendum.
Why? They've seen both now. The only real changes to the status quo ante might be the Euro and Schengen, both of which majorities are implacably against.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Since when do the specifics matter? People voted for Brexit in 2016 with no real sense of what they’d actually get, the same would be the case in another referendum.
Er, no. The terms of Rejoin would be very clear, and totally on the table.
Nah, we’d hold all the cards so would be able to achieve a brilliant settlement.
Burnham to review the Barnett formula as it gave Scotland greater protection from austerity than the north of England had. What Scottish Labour MPs think about that not yet clear
I'm going to call that trouble making because I just don't believe Burnham is talking to any journalists about anything at the moment.
Nature - and the media - abhors a vacuum.
Until Burnham gives them something to write they will make stuff up instead.
Burnham has an opportunity to turn the dial for labour but it is far too early to say by how much and when because the basic issues faced by Starmer remain
The first action he has to take is name his cabinet and remember this will be at the time of the summer recess, so I doubt much will happen before September and of course conference season
I expect both reform and the greens to fade with labour and the conservatives benefiting through the autumn
If Burnham does not get on with making things happen then his opponents - and events - will intervene to define him in the eyes of voters.
It hasn't happened yet, and it may yet turn out well, but I can see how this could go terribly wrong for Burnham, terribly quickly.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Interesting that the Tory vote is pretty evenly split between Rejoin and Stay Out.
My prediction that it will be the Tories reverting to their pro-EU position of pre 2016 that will take us back in.
Burnham to review the Barnett formula as it gave Scotland greater protection from austerity than the north of England had. What Scottish Labour MPs think about that not yet clear
I'm going to call that trouble making because I just don't believe Burnham is talking to any journalists about anything at the moment.
Nature - and the media - abhors a vacuum.
Until Burnham gives them something to write they will make stuff up instead.
Burnham has an opportunity to turn the dial for labour but it is far too early to say by how much and when because the basic issues faced by Starmer remain
The first action he has to take is name his cabinet and remember this will be at the time of the summer recess, so I doubt much will happen before September and of course conference season
I expect both reform and the greens to fade with labour and the conservatives benefiting through the autumn
If Burnham does not get on with making things happen then his opponents - and events - will intervene to define him in the eyes of voters.
It hasn't happened yet, and it may yet turn out well, but I can see how this could go terribly wrong for Burnham, terribly quickly.
He's somewhat stymied by not being able to apply for the job for another two weeks for some mysterious reason.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Who said they are fundamentals;
Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.
I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.
Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.
Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.
As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.
Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.
One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.
I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.
Before we get to a Join conversation, what does this do for our local politics? The fact of having left is unpopular, and neither "you're wrong, the Brexit water is lovely" nor "it may be dismal, but reversing it will be worse" feel like statements that will endear Parties of Leave to the general public.
The More In Common map of Brexit opinion is interesting as well;
The "only eleven constituencies would vote Leave" finding is a bit showy- lots of narrow outs flipping to narrow ins. But look at the list:
South Basildon and East Thurrock Dagenham and Rainham Castle Point South Holland and The Deepings Romford Hornchurch and Upminster Dudley Bexleyheath and Crayford Aldridge-Brownhills Boston and Skegness Rayleigh and Wickford
Three of them are in the London Borough of Havering, another three are in South Essex. We're not talking abandoned Red Wall, or Channel coast places overrun with small boats. Whatever the problems these areas have (and yes, life's not perfectly peachy), it's not totally obvious what they are, let alone why Brexit helps.
Nowhere north of Walsall.
It's one of the central mysteries of Reform and its supporters. Everyone looks for them in decaying Northern towns. And yes, they have voters there, there are understandable reasons why, and people in those places have genuine problems that genuinely need solving.
But the easiest place to find Reformers- because it's where most of them are, frankly- is second-tier Home Counties.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Since when do the specifics matter? People voted for Brexit in 2016 with no real sense of what they’d actually get, the same would be the case in another referendum.
I think that's true, but Rejoin need a better story to tell to gloss over the details. Brexit failed is not enough. It would make rejoining feel too much like a national humiliation.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Who said they are fundamentals;
Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.
I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.
Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.
Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.
As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.
Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.
One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.
I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.
Events Dear Boy!
Peter.
Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.
The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Who said they are fundamentals;
Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.
I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.
Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.
Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.
As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.
Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.
One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.
I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.
Events Dear Boy!
Peter.
Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.
The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
Before we get to a Join conversation, what does this do for our local politics? The fact of having left is unpopular, and neither "you're wrong, the Brexit water is lovely" nor "it may be dismal, but reversing it will be worse" feel like statements that will endear Parties of Leave to the general public.
The More In Common map of Brexit opinion is interesting as well;
The "only eleven constituencies would vote Leave" finding is a bit showy- lots of narrow outs flipping to narrow ins. But look at the list:
South Basildon and East Thurrock Dagenham and Rainham Castle Point South Holland and The Deepings Romford Hornchurch and Upminster Dudley Bexleyheath and Crayford Aldridge-Brownhills Boston and Skegness Rayleigh and Wickford
Three of them are in the London Borough of Havering, another three are in South Essex. We're not talking abandoned Red Wall, or Channel coast places overrun with small boats. Whatever the problems these areas have (and yes, life's not perfectly peachy), it's not totally obvious what they are, let alone why Brexit helps.
Nowhere north of Walsall.
It's one of the central mysteries of Reform and its supporters. Everyone looks for them in decaying Northern towns. And yes, they have voters there, there are understandable reasons why, and people in those places have genuine problems that genuinely need solving.
But the easiest place to find Reformers- because it's where most of them are, frankly- is second-tier Home Counties.
In the "decaying Northern towns" it is the relatively well off that vote Reform. Male Gen X and boomer homeowners rather than those who are skint.
In all three of Caerphilly, Gorton and Denton and Makerfield the key was getting the vote out. I am sure team Burnham noticed that.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
It's a rational disappointment with promise that weee broken, and an act of national self harm. Leavers carry on pretending there's no way back. Which simply isn't true.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
It's a rational disappointment with promise that weee broken, and an act of national self harm. Leavers carry on pretending there's no way back. Which simply isn't true.
As well as 5 million other reasons, it is a strong basis for not believing anything from Farage.
Burnham won't have Starmer's utter tin-ear for politics, so an improvement on that front, but that will only carry him for so long.
Ultimately, as @Cyclefree said, the problem is Labour's policies.
He must clean out the stables, get shot of most of the mediocre cabinet who are less than useless. Get some new blood in with ideas and start massive changes to the whole crap structure. Until benefits are cut , triple lock changed , do something to sort out the shambles of a tax system and immigration sorted ( ie the illegal parts and the laissez faire policy of letting any old distant family member follow ) they will continue to slide to oblivion.
I suspect you will be disappointed…
There's some real talent in the Cabinet, they just need a leader and to be allowed to communicate properly
Mahmood, Healey, Streeting are all great talents...
...for the Conservative Party. And Healey isn't really very good, although he did bail at the right time.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Since when do the specifics matter? People voted for Brexit in 2016 with no real sense of what they’d actually get, the same would be the case in another referendum.
Er, no. The terms of Rejoin would be very clear, and totally on the table.
Nah, we’d hold all the cards so would be able to achieve a brilliant settlement.
As I noted recently, there's an increasing willingness in Europe to consider us concessions, which is borne of a recognition of the mutual benefits of the UK rejoining.
It's neither inevitable, nor impossible. But the debate has certainly shifted in the pro EU direction. To deny that is to deny the last year's polls,
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Polls on rejoining are pointless without knowing what the terms would be. Rejoining on our previous terms, as Barnier has suggested, is a very different proposition to rejoining with Schengen and the Euro. .
What is pretty indisputable however is that by about 2-1 voters now think Brexit was a mistake. Disillusionment has been growing practically since the day we left and I expect that to continue..
I think about how Boris Johnson would sell Rejoin, I can imagine an argument a bit like...
"Britain once led a great Empire that achieved great things - abolished slavery, brought democracy, the rule of law and free trade to the world. Today, with America retreating from its role as a defender of the free world, it is time again for Britain to take up that challenge - this time by leading Europe to become the economic and military superpower that will keep the world safe from the dictators of the 21st century." [Standing ovation and wild cheers]
It might be a large amount of self-aggrandising bollocks, but most of the great reforms were achieved with a large dose of the same. It's also a hell of a lot more positive then - we made a mistake, oops! And it's not complete rubbish. The world does need Europe to step up with the US going mental. Europe does need a kick up the arse. And Britain could bring a lot to the EU - particularly if Britain took a breather to sort itself out before arguing about Europe again.
Comments
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/2069495756579344457
'You created a stick with which your critics beat your old party.'
Political Editor @ChristopherHope challenges former Prime Minister Boris Johnson on the effects of the Boriswave, a surge in immigration following Brexit, and whether it led to the growth of Reform.
Which would be quite a departure from most of the recent ones and not to be underestimated as a virtue. From one who knows and who told me in advance that he was standing I'm told he's as straight as they come. He even gives a percentage of his salary to charity
So as long has he kicks John Mann out of every Labour position he holds he'll get my vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp0KBkum8Ug
Good news for the dole out money to the economically inactive or useless brigade is that it is being reported in the ipaper tonight that Burnham will not go forward with the retrospective change to ILR from 5 to 10 years
It’s unBritish apparently. 🙄
Fuck Reform. They will take us nowhere.
Right to vote to leave: 30%
Wrong to vote to leave: 57%
https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum
He can carry Pritti bags.
One way Ticket
https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/research/brexit-10-years-on/
Nice Touch from the Harbour Master and Trawler owners
I was just trying to work out the last time Russia was involved in a war that lasted over four years (discounting the 2014 invasions of Crimea and Donbas). I keep coming back to the Kazakh rising of the 1830s-1840s.
There was a small but vocal slice of something similar in 2016- if you want to be a policy wonk, not having to fit your ideas around the existing Euroregulations is more intellectually satisfying. Keeping all the nice consequences without any of their downsides, even more so.
Half of Britons say they would vote to rejoin the EU in a referendum, but there are two key barriers that could shape a real referendum:
Britons don’t really want to give up sovereignty: most Britons say it would not be worth limiting the British government’s powers for a closer relationship with the EU. All right-leaning segments say that accepting ECJ jurisdiction would be unacceptable.
The public worry about what kind of deal Britain would get from rejoining. Only 3 in 10 think the EU would offer favourable conditions for rejoining, while 45 per cent say they would try to punish us by offering unfavourable conditions. Across both sides of the debate, many worry about the prospect of returning to the EU “cap-in-hand”, with our place in the world diminished and our bargaining power weakened, and ending up with a bad deal.
The one and only and irreplaceable Sunil.
https://x.com/hmorrison97/status/2069459779718639800?s=46&t=Gsn9rlDEZH5vXP97Cgifnw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6gd1OECL_8
We've heard a tsunami of stuff about what Burnham will do from almost everyone except Andy Burnham.
Although if we do include 2014 as the start date they've already gone past that.
Most people are okay with that, to greater and lesser degrees. Many would answer a survey question that they would like to be back in the EU, but in reality are not prepared for the sacrifices, or the toxic political debate, that would be required. They want the good parts of EU membership without the bad bits, which is never going to be on offer.
No PM is going to risk another referendum unless the public mood really shifts dramatically to an overwhelming, rock-solid pro-EU stance.
The More In Common map of Brexit opinion is interesting as well;
https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/research/brexit-10-years-on/
The "only eleven constituencies would vote Leave" finding is a bit showy- lots of narrow outs flipping to narrow ins. But look at the list:
South Basildon and East Thurrock
Dagenham and Rainham
Castle Point
South Holland and The Deepings
Romford
Hornchurch and Upminster
Dudley
Bexleyheath and Crayford
Aldridge-Brownhills
Boston and Skegness
Rayleigh and Wickford
Three of them are in the London Borough of Havering, another three are in South Essex. We're not talking abandoned Red Wall, or Channel coast places overrun with small boats. Whatever the problems these areas have (and yes, life's not perfectly peachy), it's not totally obvious what they are, let alone why Brexit helps.
Burnham is being elected at a very difficult time for the country. We're facing decline in every area following 30 years of progressive consensus, and under Starmer that has gone from slow to fast. If Burnham decides he wants to solve the problems of Britain, he deserves support, and we won't need Farage. If he decides that all Starmerism needs to succeed is his own special brand of chummy matery, he's as good as gone.
Until Burnham gives them something to write they will make stuff up instead.
If anyone has any doubt just go and wonder why all the young bar staff are having such a great time and learning languages and wonder why there are no young English boys and girls.
...........and how they must hate all their old fogie grandparents who denied all this to them
Happy to discuss full fiscal autonomy any time.
Who knows we might even cut the 75% Tax on Oil & gas in Scottish waters.
Peter.
The first action he has to take is name his cabinet and remember this will be at the time of the summer recess, so I doubt much will happen before September and of course conference season
I expect both reform and the greens to fade with labour and the conservatives benefiting through the autumn
It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
Won’t come to a conclusion yet but I’m not getting good vibes.
Also they form an almost direct diagonal line from from Dudley to Hornschurch but there are quite a few that aren't in it.
Sort of the midlands to me but hen I am from Glasgow!!!!!
Peter.
If he hears views he doesn't like, he ignores them or fucks off.
My prediction that it will be the Tories reverting to their pro-EU position of pre 2016 that will take us back in.
EXCLUSIVE:
Andy Burnham is expected to appoint a former Blairite cabinet minister who is one of his oldest political allies as his chief of staff as he seeks to overhaul No 10
James Purnell, who served as pensions minister, culture secretary, and work and pensions secretary in the New Labour governments of Sir Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, is the frontrunner for the role, The Times has been told
He is said to be viewed by Burnham as a “serious figure” who is capable of implementing his radical plans to reform Downing Street and Whitehall
The pair, who entered parliament together in 2001, shared an office as novice Greater Manchester MPs, with Burnham representing Leigh and Purnell holding Stalybridge & Hyde
Burnham frequently joked that he was overlooked for broadcast interviews in favour of Purnell, who was educated in France and Surrey
Purnell is chief executive of Flint Global, a major PR and lobbying firm, a role that may present issues over potential conflicts of interest in government
It hasn't happened yet, and it may yet turn out well, but I can see how this could go terribly wrong for Burnham, terribly quickly.
Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.
I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.
Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.
Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.
As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.
Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.
One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.
I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.
Events Dear Boy!
Peter.
But the easiest place to find Reformers- because it's where most of them are, frankly- is second-tier Home Counties.
Rejoin needs to have a more positive case.
The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
https://inside.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/men
Second half: hopefully better.
Andy Burnham is believed to be replacing Policemen with cats.
Making Cars drive in reverse so we can see where we've been.
Making the Royal family play for England in the World Cup.
Funding a UK mission to Mars....
We'll everyone else is making stuff up!
Peter.
In all three of Caerphilly, Gorton and Denton and Makerfield the key was getting the vote out. I am sure team Burnham noticed that.
https://x.com/patrick_kidd/status/2069524929171619895
Leavers carry on pretending there's no way back. Which simply isn't true.
Sound defending by Ghana with a narrow back 4 and sweeper.
Ghana is likely to bring on more attacking threat later.
Won't get fooled again.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jun/23/heatwave-france-spain-italy-europe
It's neither inevitable, nor impossible. But the debate has certainly shifted in the pro EU direction.
To deny that is to deny the last year's polls,
What is pretty indisputable however is that by about 2-1 voters now think Brexit was a mistake. Disillusionment has been growing practically since the day we left and I expect that to continue..
"Britain once led a great Empire that achieved great things - abolished slavery, brought democracy, the rule of law and free trade to the world. Today, with America retreating from its role as a defender of the free world, it is time again for Britain to take up that challenge - this time by leading Europe to become the economic and military superpower that will keep the world safe from the dictators of the 21st century." [Standing ovation and wild cheers]
It might be a large amount of self-aggrandising bollocks, but most of the great reforms were achieved with a large dose of the same. It's also a hell of a lot more positive then - we made a mistake, oops! And it's not complete rubbish. The world does need Europe to step up with the US going mental. Europe does need a kick up the arse. And Britain could bring a lot to the EU - particularly if Britain took a breather to sort itself out before arguing about Europe again.