Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Norway hates the UK? I mean they sent a bit of a crappy Christmas tree that time..
The Norwegians love us.
"We are best in the world! We have beaten England! England, birthplace of giants..
..Lord Nelson, Lord Beaverbrook, Sir Winston Churchill, Sir Anthony Eden, Clement Attlee, Henry Cooper, Lady Diana, vi har slått dem alle sammen, vi har slått dem alle sammen! [we have beaten them all, we have beaten them all!]. Maggie Thatcher, can you hear me? Maggie Thatcher ... your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!"
I am on a train. The bloke opposite me is talking to the bloke next to him that he has tiny eustachian tubes. The bloke next to him said he thinks he has the mindset to cope. TBOM says he woke up and still thought he was asleep. TBNTH says his wife has ear candles
I want them both dead.
I'm gibbering at this point. It's like two AIs talking to each other. It's all stream of consciousness. There's no mediation between thought and speech, no summaries, it's just event, event, event, event, he said this I said that he said that. If either of them use the phrase "I was loving" instead of "I love" I will not be responsible for my actions. I have my eyes closed and a clenched fist rammed into my lips. Now I know why telepaths go mad.
We need to go back to the 1940s, when men smoked pipes, read newspapers, and only talked on trains when it advanced the plot.
I’m in a pub and there are 5 wasted men in their 70s violently arguing about the best German Chancellor. On the other side there are two people in their 50s on a date and… the flame doesn’t die.
If the answer isn’t Hitler then they are all wrong. I mean he made a few mistakes, but you should have seen his early years…
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Blame Thatcher for the Norwegians selling us oil and gas now (Blair too but Thatcher's more resonant). Was she mentally ill and did she hate this country?
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Blame Thatcher for the Norwegians selling us oil and gas now (Blair too but Thatcher's more resonant). Was she mentally ill and did she hate this country?
I think, based on the sample of a currently mentally ill world leader who hates his country, if she had been either of those she would have done considerably more damage much more quickly.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Norway hates the UK? I mean they sent a bit of a crappy Christmas tree that time..
The Norwegian King is about 90th in line to the British throne. Some judicious accidents and we could unite the two countries under one monarch.
At least Burnham has so far chosen to not call one of the few popular bits of the current government to go.
Shabana Mahmood is doing a good job.
Not much point in changing leader and not changing policy direction, and all the polling finds Labour unpopular.
Isn’t this part of the problem with politics - nothing gets done because there are constant changes to policies because of changes of parties or factions. No fan of Labour but if Mahmoud has a plan that she is implementing and it might work it would be good to allow it to have time to work. Instead it might get killed in infancy because another faction think it’s “un-British”.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Norway hates the UK? I mean they sent a bit of a crappy Christmas tree that time..
The Norwegian King is about 90th in line to the British throne. Some judicious accidents and we could unite the two countries under one monarch.
"Judicius accidents"? He'd probably have to be ruling over a nuked wasteland for that outcome to arise.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
Why are you watching it? Sounds like a pile of wank without having to even view.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Norway hates the UK? I mean they sent a bit of a crappy Christmas tree that time..
The Norwegian King is about 90th in line to the British throne. Some judicious accidents and we could unite the two countries under one monarch.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Norway hates the UK? I mean they sent a bit of a crappy Christmas tree that time..
The Norwegian King is about 90th in line to the British throne. Some judicious accidents and we could unite the two countries under one monarch.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Norway hates the UK? I mean they sent a bit of a crappy Christmas tree that time..
The Norwegian King is about 90th in line to the British throne. Some judicious accidents and we could unite the two countries under one monarch.
89 unrelated accidents. Plausible.
If you have watched King Ralph you will know it’s perfectly plausible.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Norway hates the UK? I mean they sent a bit of a crappy Christmas tree that time..
The Norwegian King is about 90th in line to the British throne. Some judicious accidents and we could unite the two countries under one monarch.
89 unrelated accidents. Plausible.
"People have accidents all the time. What makes you think it's mur-der?"
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Norway hates the UK? I mean they sent a bit of a crappy Christmas tree that time..
The Norwegian King is about 90th in line to the British throne. Some judicious accidents and we could unite the two countries under one monarch.
89 unrelated accidents. Plausible.
"People have accidents all the time. What makes you think it's mur-der?"
On the subject of monarchy, the more ardent republicans on this board are revolutionaries.
At the time of the rape he was homeless, having been discharged from psychiatric care three days earlier without a support package after it was decided he was no longer psychotic.
If he weren't white, I am certain the mental health card would have been played.
I find your final sentence incredibly disconcerting. A rapist bastard is a rapist bastard whatever their colour. No excuses and no pulling the "he got it tougher because he was white" please.
No, I couldn't give a toss about the fate of the junkie. But you only have to look at Nottingham to see how we treat perpetrators who are not white.
I don't believe I have defended AR or the **** in Nottingham because they are not white.
I am fascinated that over the last few days some posters have been keen to post stories about disgusting immigrant criminality and getting substantial likes for doing so, but this one? Not so much.
Unless you are a complete moron, I find it hard to see the fascination. Rape is a disgusting crime that should be severely punished no matter the perpetrator. But if the perpetrator(s) are people who have entered the country illegally on a small boat, that makes it more the establishment's fault than when the rapist is someone who was born here. When people, including me obviously, post these stories of illegal immigrants raping women, it isn't because we think it is bad when they do it but ok when others do, it is to illustrate that letting these people in and putting them up in little villages is madness, and the government should be doing more to stop it. It is the establishment that is being criticised, that rape is an horrific crime goes without saying
People, including myself, also post when a man pretending to be a woman sexually assaults a real woman in prison. We don't post when men sexually assault other men in men's prisons, nor when women sexually assault women in women's prisons. That is not to say those assaults aren't bad, although the man pretending to be a woman's assault on woman is worse as well as being the establishment's fault
That's pure sophistry.
No it isn’t. You just make excuses for the small boat people and refuse to acknowledge any harm that comes from them being here
At the time of the rape he was homeless, having been discharged from psychiatric care three days earlier without a support package after it was decided he was no longer psychotic.
If he weren't white, I am certain the mental health card would have been played.
I find your final sentence incredibly disconcerting. A rapist bastard is a rapist bastard whatever their colour. No excuses and no pulling the "he got it tougher because he was white" please.
No, I couldn't give a toss about the fate of the junkie. But you only have to look at Nottingham to see how we treat perpetrators who are not white.
I don't believe I have defended AR or the **** in Nottingham because they are not white.
I am fascinated that over the last few days some posters have been keen to post stories about disgusting immigrant criminality and getting substantial likes for doing so, but this one? Not so much.
Unless you are a complete moron, I find it hard to see the fascination. Rape is a disgusting crime that should be severely punished no matter the perpetrator. But if the perpetrator(s) are people who have entered the country illegally on a small boat, that makes it more the establishment's fault than when the rapist is someone who was born here. When people, including me obviously, post these stories of illegal immigrants raping women, it isn't because we think it is bad when they do it but ok when others do, it is to illustrate that letting these people in and putting them up in little villages is madness, and the government should be doing more to stop it. It is the establishment that is being criticised, that rape is an horrific crime goes without saying
People, including myself, also post when a man pretending to be a woman sexually assaults a real woman in prison. We don't post when men sexually assault other men in men's prisons, nor when women sexually assault women in women's prisons. That is not to say those assaults aren't bad, although the man pretending to be a woman's assault on woman is worse as well as being the establishment's fault
The rapists in Brighton that were widely posted about on here this week are disgusting individuals for their crimes. I don't believe them being immigrants or Muslims has anything to do their criminality. Likewise the guy who raped the Sikh girl because he thought she was Muslim did not do it because he was white but because he's a nasty bastard.
You have completely missed the point
The rape in Brighton would not have happened if the small boats hadn't arrived. The rape of the Sikh woman would have. That is the reason people mention the former and not the latter. Thousands of crimes a year happen that we don't feel the need to mention on here, because there isn't a government policy angle. When men who arrive on small boats assault women, it is pointed out because we don't want men arriving here on small boats and being put up at the taxpayers expense in places where the locals don't want them, not because they are doing things that we otherwise think ok but decide are bad when they do them
Your argument implies that there is absolutely nothing government could have done that would have led to the latter rape not occurring. Do you really believe that there is no action government can take to reduce rapes by the non-immigrant population?
That’s clearly nonsense. You’re cynically using rape as a reason to oppose immigration. If you cared about rape, there are dozens of policies that government could enact to reduce rapes and/or to find and prosecute those who commit rape that would be far more effective than banning immigration.
At the time of the rape he was homeless, having been discharged from psychiatric care three days earlier without a support package after it was decided he was no longer psychotic.
If he weren't white, I am certain the mental health card would have been played.
I find your final sentence incredibly disconcerting. A rapist bastard is a rapist bastard whatever their colour. No excuses and no pulling the "he got it tougher because he was white" please.
No, I couldn't give a toss about the fate of the junkie. But you only have to look at Nottingham to see how we treat perpetrators who are not white.
I don't believe I have defended AR or the **** in Nottingham because they are not white.
I am fascinated that over the last few days some posters have been keen to post stories about disgusting immigrant criminality and getting substantial likes for doing so, but this one? Not so much.
Unless you are a complete moron, I find it hard to see the fascination. Rape is a disgusting crime that should be severely punished no matter the perpetrator. But if the perpetrator(s) are people who have entered the country illegally on a small boat, that makes it more the establishment's fault than when the rapist is someone who was born here. When people, including me obviously, post these stories of illegal immigrants raping women, it isn't because we think it is bad when they do it but ok when others do, it is to illustrate that letting these people in and putting them up in little villages is madness, and the government should be doing more to stop it. It is the establishment that is being criticised, that rape is an horrific crime goes without saying
People, including myself, also post when a man pretending to be a woman sexually assaults a real woman in prison. We don't post when men sexually assault other men in men's prisons, nor when women sexually assault women in women's prisons. That is not to say those assaults aren't bad, although the man pretending to be a woman's assault on woman is worse as well as being the establishment's fault
The rapists in Brighton that were widely posted about on here this week are disgusting individuals for their crimes. I don't believe them being immigrants or Muslims has anything to do their criminality. Likewise the guy who raped the Sikh girl because he thought she was Muslim did not do it because he was white but because he's a nasty bastard.
You have completely missed the point
The rape in Brighton would not have happened if the small boats hadn't arrived. The rape of the Sikh woman would have. That is the reason people mention the former and not the latter. Thousands of crimes a year happen that we don't feel the need to mention on here, because there isn't a government policy angle. When men who arrive on small boats assault women, it is pointed out because we don't want men arriving here on small boats and being put up at the taxpayers expense in places where the locals don't want them, not because they are doing things that we otherwise think ok but decide are bad when they do them
Your argument implies that there is absolutely nothing government could have done that would have led to the latter rape not occurring. Do you really believe that there is no action government can take to reduce rapes by the non-immigrant population?
That’s clearly nonsense. You’re cynically using rape as a reason to oppose immigration. If you cared about rape, there are dozens of policies that government could enact to reduce rapes and/or to find and prosecute those who commit rape that would be far more effective than banning immigration.
Absolute rubbish. You just defend anything illegal immigrants do out of a false sense of morality
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You mean, unlike people who illegally ran away to Penarth and spent all their time whingeing about how terrified they were of catching a killer disease?
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Norway hates the UK? I mean they sent a bit of a crappy Christmas tree that time..
The Norwegian King is about 90th in line to the British throne. Some judicious accidents and we could unite the two countries under one monarch.
89 unrelated accidents. Plausible.
Or, for the more squeamish here, you just need to persuade about 89 people to convert to Catholicism.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
Norway hates the UK? I mean they sent a bit of a crappy Christmas tree that time..
The Norwegian King is about 90th in line to the British throne. Some judicious accidents and we could unite the two countries under one monarch.
89 unrelated accidents. Plausible.
Or, for the more squeamish here, you just need to persuade about 89 people to convert to Catholicism.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
On topic: It depends on which plural rhymes best in the poem you are writing. (Some of you are talented enough to give us examples -- others talented enough to search for examples, already written.)
Years ago, I asked a marine biologist why octopuses/octopi were so smart, since other smart animals were long lived and social, while octopuses/octopi were neither. He told me that they weren't all that smart, about as smart as rats. Which struck me as evasive, after I thought about it.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
It is his mind that is shut...
More seriously, if people wanted to thank teachers that kept schools open as long as possible - and arguably longer than was possible - under impossible conditions and constant ineptitude from the centre, a public crucifixion of every civil servant who went to those boozy parties would be a much better start.
Just watching a Brian Tyler-Cohen piece about Barron's maternity from an earlier Steven Colbert bombshell, oh and paternity.
Blimey and wow!
What on earth are you talking about?
The question being asked is who mothered Barron, and who fathered Barron?
According to the reports, neither the mother nor the father was likely to be Melania.
Are these reports from social media? Or are they from actual journalists with editorial policies, like fact-checking?
Mainstream anti- Trump. It has been doing the rounds for months. No one has sued yet. The current linkage I think relates to Ghislaine's alleged proposed pardon.
At the time of the rape he was homeless, having been discharged from psychiatric care three days earlier without a support package after it was decided he was no longer psychotic.
If he weren't white, I am certain the mental health card would have been played.
I find your final sentence incredibly disconcerting. A rapist bastard is a rapist bastard whatever their colour. No excuses and no pulling the "he got it tougher because he was white" please.
No, I couldn't give a toss about the fate of the junkie. But you only have to look at Nottingham to see how we treat perpetrators who are not white.
I don't believe I have defended AR or the **** in Nottingham because they are not white.
I am fascinated that over the last few days some posters have been keen to post stories about disgusting immigrant criminality and getting substantial likes for doing so, but this one? Not so much.
Unless you are a complete moron, I find it hard to see the fascination. Rape is a disgusting crime that should be severely punished no matter the perpetrator. But if the perpetrator(s) are people who have entered the country illegally on a small boat, that makes it more the establishment's fault than when the rapist is someone who was born here. When people, including me obviously, post these stories of illegal immigrants raping women, it isn't because we think it is bad when they do it but ok when others do, it is to illustrate that letting these people in and putting them up in little villages is madness, and the government should be doing more to stop it. It is the establishment that is being criticised, that rape is an horrific crime goes without saying
People, including myself, also post when a man pretending to be a woman sexually assaults a real woman in prison. We don't post when men sexually assault other men in men's prisons, nor when women sexually assault women in women's prisons. That is not to say those assaults aren't bad, although the man pretending to be a woman's assault on woman is worse as well as being the establishment's fault
The rapists in Brighton that were widely posted about on here this week are disgusting individuals for their crimes. I don't believe them being immigrants or Muslims has anything to do their criminality. Likewise the guy who raped the Sikh girl because he thought she was Muslim did not do it because he was white but because he's a nasty bastard.
You have completely missed the point
The rape in Brighton would not have happened if the small boats hadn't arrived. The rape of the Sikh woman would have. That is the reason people mention the former and not the latter. Thousands of crimes a year happen that we don't feel the need to mention on here, because there isn't a government policy angle. When men who arrive on small boats assault women, it is pointed out because we don't want men arriving here on small boats and being put up at the taxpayers expense in places where the locals don't want them, not because they are doing things that we otherwise think ok but decide are bad when they do them
Your argument implies that there is absolutely nothing government could have done that would have led to the latter rape not occurring. Do you really believe that there is no action government can take to reduce rapes by the non-immigrant population?
That’s clearly nonsense. You’re cynically using rape as a reason to oppose immigration. If you cared about rape, there are dozens of policies that government could enact to reduce rapes and/or to find and prosecute those who commit rape that would be far more effective than banning immigration.
In the case of the rape in Walsall, we could start by not letting out people who are a clear and obvious danger to the rest of us.
By far and away the worst thing Mrs Thatcher did was care in the community.
Thoroughly disgusted that the unelected house has been able to filibuster the assisted dying bill that the elected house had passed.
I hope next month a supporter of the bill gets drawn high up the private members ballot and reproposes the bill and the elected house passes it again.
Then the Parliament Act should be used and the unelected house removed from the equation.
It's not passing the House in its current form.
That is up to MPs.
They voted for it last year. They should again.
You seem to forget quite a few MPs only supported the bill/didn't vote against it because they wanted to see what the final bill would look like.
Sadly the supporters of the bill have made the safeguards look laughable.
MPs voted how they voted, you may wish they had done otherwise but they did what they did at third reading. They could and should vote the same way yet again.
The safeguards are laughably onerous, agreed. Far too many that should not be there and should be stripped out.
But better to accept it as it is than liberalise it further, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough for now.
I would just say it had a 23 vote majority in the house so no guarantee it would pass if reintroduced
There is never any guarantees in life, agreed.
But MPs should do the right thing and pass it, unamended, then override the unelected Lords.
The Lords could have chosen to pass reasonable amendments to send to the elected chamber to continue. Instead they have chosen to dick about, so the Commons should pass it unamended and have the Lords forfeit the right to suggest amendments.
Nope. I am in favour of assisted dying - very strongly. But this bill was, please excuse the term, an abortion.
If you listen to some of the Lords ex[plaining their objections you realise just how bad this bill was as it was presented to the Lords.
For a start, being a Private Members Bill, it had none of the usual research and support work done in advance - green and white papers, proper consultations etc. It was brought to the Commons as a half arsed emotionally based attempt to get ssisted dying rather than a proper formulated plan for end of life care indcluiding an option for assisted dying.
Then after it passed its second reading in the Commons it was changed with key protections being removed. This is not the same bill the Commons voted on, even before the Lords had had a chance to look at it.
It stands as the largest and most complex private members bill ever put before the Lords and it needed proper scrutiny. All he more so because all the work which would normally be done in advance of a Government bill was missing.
What we need is for a Government to do the right thing and introduce a proper bill which has been properly planned and reseached. Not some half arsed bit of legislation that relies on emotional blackmail to get it through.
I think what we need is the Government to use this bill to kick off the green and white papers with consultations.
And then in 3 years time when all that's been done an MP can introduce the bill again as a private member..
I want the Government to govern. Have the courage of its convictions and actually put forward a properly considered bill with official backing.
Once, again, as with the navy, describing our forces as a shoe string is seriously overstating it.
Fortunately for us, Argentina has seen an even more serious decline in military capability. Their navy and air force are so run down there's basically zero chance of being able to stage a successful invasion against anything more than token opposition.
And they certainly have no way of stopping a pair of QE class carriers loaded with F-35s when they inevitably turn up and politely ask for the islands back.
You think we can get both our carriers seaworthy and manned at the same time? I admire your optimism. God, we are getting so little bang for our bucks.
You think we can get a single carrier with escort vessels seaworthy and manned at the same time? I admire your optimism.
Once, again, as with the navy, describing our forces as a shoe string is seriously overstating it.
Fortunately for us, Argentina has seen an even more serious decline in military capability. Their navy and air force are so run down there's basically zero chance of being able to stage a successful invasion against anything more than token opposition.
And they certainly have no way of stopping a pair of QE class carriers loaded with F-35s when they inevitably turn up and politely ask for the islands back.
You think we can get both our carriers seaworthy and manned at the same time? I admire your optimism. God, we are getting so little bang for our bucks.
You think we can get a single carrier with escort vessels seaworthy and manned at the same time? I admire your optimism.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
It is his mind that is shut...
More seriously, if people wanted to thank teachers that kept schools open as long as possible - and arguably longer than was possible - under impossible conditions and constant ineptitude from the centre, a public crucifixion of every civil servant who went to those boozy parties would be a much better start.
They didn't keep them open for as long as possible. As long as possible would be keeping them open.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
The home grown supply of oil and gas is finite. It can be used just once. The only question is whether we take it all out of the ground as fast as possible, or at a much more measured pace while switching away to lean more on renewable and nuclear sources. If the latter, there will be more oil and gas left for future generations, at a point when you and I are pushing up the daisies and the planet might actually be able to cope with the more measured rate of use.
And as those finite oil and gas supplies run out worldwide, such that the cost of extraction increases and prices are pushed up further due to limits on supply, the fact that fields such as Rosebank are available to bring onstream in 50 years time will make them far more valuable as a national resource then than they are now.
Once we abandon fields they will never be re-opened. It is simply not practical. I know. I am responsible for abandoning them and take it from me we are making sure they are really well abandoned because that is the legal requirement.
What’s your view on the Iranian blockade?
The US narrative is that Kharg island fills up by next weekend, leaving Iran nowhere to store the stuff, so they have to start shutting down production in a way that could be permanent.
Nah. Trump is talking out of his behind. You can keep wells shut in for years. If those wells are onshore then you can keep them shut in for decades. You lose nothing except a bit of cost from having someone monitor them every few months to make sure they are not leaking.
It only becomes an issue when you want to permanently abandon them and they are 300 ft below the surface of the North Sea * Then you have to do a proper abandonment based on the highest possible recharge pressures over several thousand years. That means pulling casings, setting cement plugs and eventually cutting off wellheads and removing any infrastructure above the seabed. That is when it becomes irreversable.
Nothing Trump is doing will reduce Iranian oil reserves or cost them anything beyond the immediate issue of being unable to sell their oil.
*other seas and other depths are available.
While I hate to disagree with you, it's not quite true re onshore production.
Reservoirs can -and do- become damaged by being shut in. For example, if it's a clay formation and they are using water injection to maintain pressures (as I'm pretty sure most Iranian wells will be) then if you stop producing, then the water in the well will end up being absorbed by clays, swelling it and causing the pores to close.
Conventional fractured clay reservoirs are so impossibly rare as to be insignificant. The Iranian reservoirs are either sand of limestone. Moreover, if you are doing water injection properly (and whatever else they are the Iranians are very good reservoir engineers) then you carry out water injection to form a front driving the oil ahead of it, rather than coning which massively reduces production. Unless they are utterly incompetent (and again they are not) then there is no reason that shutting in wells should have any impact on reserves or production. Everyone regulalry shuts in wells for months or sometimes years as a normal part of reservoir management both in the North Sea and around the rest of the world. In some of the wells I am currently abandoning there can be several decades between the first and last sidetrack drilled off a well.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
No they fucking weren't you stupid YouTubing fat freak. I know this BECAUSE MY OLDER DAUGHTER WAS SENT HOME AND STAYED HOME
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
I would be surprised if any of the reservoirs are actually connected, and the maximum distance that oil usually travels -horizontally to the wellbore- is no more than 3-700 meters. For North Sea development, operators will drill many, many well, typically with spacing of 6-800 meters.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
What annoyed me, is that in part due to union influence, the teachers in my area didn't deliver online classes and stay in touch. I can, kinda, understand a reluctance to teach in person, especially for those with health conditions. But refusing to post up a lesson and engage in online chats seemed like a dereliction of duty. The kids should have come first.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
No they fucking weren't you stupid YouTubing fat freak. I know this BECAUSE MY OLDER DAUGHTER WAS SENT HOME AND STAYED HOME
Schools stayed open for the kids of key workers. I don’t think flint knappers cowering in SEWales counted as a key worker.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
What annoyed me, is that in part due to union influence, the teachers in my area didn't deliver online classes and stay in touch. I can, kinda, understand a reluctance to teach in person, especially for those with health conditions. But refusing to post up a lesson and engage in online chats seemed like a dereliction of duty. The kids should have come first.
I despise teachers, Sack them all. Along with the lawyers
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
No they fucking weren't you stupid YouTubing fat freak. I know this BECAUSE MY OLDER DAUGHTER WAS SENT HOME AND STAYED HOME
My memory is the schools were open BUT ONLY for the kids of essential workers.
So most teachers were at home.
But can we just all agree it was a bloody nightmare and it should not be done again.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
It is his mind that is shut...
More seriously, if people wanted to thank teachers that kept schools open as long as possible - and arguably longer than was possible - under impossible conditions and constant ineptitude from the centre, a public crucifixion of every civil servant who went to those boozy parties would be a much better start.
They didn't keep them open for as long as possible. As long as possible would be keeping them open.
Sigh.
I know a lot of misinformation is out there about this, mostly from lunatics who keep saying 'this, or this, could be done.' Cummings, for example, who is a liar, a bully, a failure, a forger, a fantasist and an idiot who kept blaming 'the unions' or 'the teachers' or 'the blob' for his own stupidity and ineptitude in this.
It couldn't.
I've been into this in lots of times and I'm not going to go over the details again. But suffice to say, if you wanted people isolated to stop the spread of the disease, we couldn't keep schools open. We just didn't have the staff. If we did more than half the time we didn't have the children.
We were told to test. The tests weren't provided. When they were provided, the staff to do them weren't. So we couldn't do them. We were ordered to do them, and reopen. We couldn't therefore reopen. We were told exams would go ahead. It was obvious that due to the numbers off with illness we couldn't. We were then, when they were finally cancelled, to do our own assessments. Bizarrely, the Covid year of 2022 had up to five times as many exams as their peers normally would.
We were told to keep children in 'bubbles.' Nobody could tell us what that meant. We had to make it up as we went along because any time we tried to get clarification from the centre they snapped 'it's plain what we mean' (which was a lie, but most DfE civil servants are sadly liars).
We were ordered to keep most children at home in March 2020. We had no say in it. We weren't allowed to reopen before the summer even if we wanted to. That is however to ignore the fact that they *were* still open for some children. All the way through. And we were still teaching. All the way through. Online, under very difficult conditions, because the government refused to spend money on decent technology, although they spent it on foreign holidays and restaurant meals.
If you want my candid opinion the second lockdown could and should have been avoided. But that was entirely due (a) to the utter fucking stupidity of Johnson and Cumstain in allowing their demented 'airbridge' for holidays which reseeded the virus everywhere and (b) the even greater stupidity of not moving to properly blended learning where children had two weeks in and one online to try and spread resources more effectively. The lockdown became needed because of the truly shocking mismanagement of schools in the autumn term of 2020.
Continue to spout the lies and propaganda of neo-Nazis like that loathsome creep Contrarian if you like. But please be aware that is all they are.
Oh and another thing - I don't think Covid caused problems in schools, so much as demonstrating with brutal clarity just how big a shambles and a lash-up the whole system is.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
No they fucking weren't you stupid YouTubing fat freak. I know this BECAUSE MY OLDER DAUGHTER WAS SENT HOME AND STAYED HOME
Schools stayed open for the kids of key workers. I don’t think flint knappers cowering in SEWales counted as a key worker.
My daughter's school didn't even do that. Totally shut. Grotesque cowardice
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
No they fucking weren't you stupid YouTubing fat freak. I know this BECAUSE MY OLDER DAUGHTER WAS SENT HOME AND STAYED HOME
Luv. My kids stayed at home as well. My wife? Went to work as normal at her primary school. Which remained open for all the kids deemed essential.
You may not like it. I may not like it. My kids certainly didn’t like it. But *the schools* remained open.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
No they fucking weren't you stupid YouTubing fat freak. I know this BECAUSE MY OLDER DAUGHTER WAS SENT HOME AND STAYED HOME
Schools stayed open for the kids of key workers. I don’t think flint knappers cowering in SEWales counted as a key worker.
My daughter's school didn't even do that. Totally shut. Grotesque cowardice
Which school was that? It is possible that if it was a private school in London there were no children that met the criteria for coming in. But equally, they found online teaching much easier than state schools with smaller class sizes and better access to equipment.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
Well, you were the one who decided to go to Penarth even though you hate Wales.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
The home grown supply of oil and gas is finite. It can be used just once. The only question is whether we take it all out of the ground as fast as possible, or at a much more measured pace while switching away to lean more on renewable and nuclear sources. If the latter, there will be more oil and gas left for future generations, at a point when you and I are pushing up the daisies and the planet might actually be able to cope with the more measured rate of use.
And as those finite oil and gas supplies run out worldwide, such that the cost of extraction increases and prices are pushed up further due to limits on supply, the fact that fields such as Rosebank are available to bring onstream in 50 years time will make them far more valuable as a national resource then than they are now.
Once we abandon fields they will never be re-opened. It is simply not practical. I know. I am responsible for abandoning them and take it from me we are making sure they are really well abandoned because that is the legal requirement.
What’s your view on the Iranian blockade?
The US narrative is that Kharg island fills up by next weekend, leaving Iran nowhere to store the stuff, so they have to start shutting down production in a way that could be permanent.
Nah. Trump is talking out of his behind. You can keep wells shut in for years. If those wells are onshore then you can keep them shut in for decades. You lose nothing except a bit of cost from having someone monitor them every few months to make sure they are not leaking.
It only becomes an issue when you want to permanently abandon them and they are 300 ft below the surface of the North Sea * Then you have to do a proper abandonment based on the highest possible recharge pressures over several thousand years. That means pulling casings, setting cement plugs and eventually cutting off wellheads and removing any infrastructure above the seabed. That is when it becomes irreversable.
Nothing Trump is doing will reduce Iranian oil reserves or cost them anything beyond the immediate issue of being unable to sell their oil.
*other seas and other depths are available.
While I hate to disagree with you, it's not quite true re onshore production.
Reservoirs can -and do- become damaged by being shut in. For example, if it's a clay formation and they are using water injection to maintain pressures (as I'm pretty sure most Iranian wells will be) then if you stop producing, then the water in the well will end up being absorbed by clays, swelling it and causing the pores to close.
Conventional fractured clay reservoirs are so impossibly rare as to be insignificant. The Iranian reservoirs are either sand of limestone. Moreover, if you are doing water injection properly (and whatever else they are the Iranians are very good reservoir engineers) then you carry out water injection to form a front driving the oil ahead of it, rather than coning which massively reduces production. Unless they are utterly incompetent (and again they are not) then there is no reason that shutting in wells should have any impact on reserves or production. Everyone regulalry shuts in wells for months or sometimes years as a normal part of reservoir management both in the North Sea and around the rest of the world. In some of the wells I am currently abandoning there can be several decades between the first and last sidetrack drilled off a well.
Short shut ins are rarely a problem, but the longer you shut a field down, the lower production is likely to be at restart.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
What annoyed me, is that in part due to union influence, the teachers in my area didn't deliver online classes and stay in touch. I can, kinda, understand a reluctance to teach in person, especially for those with health conditions. But refusing to post up a lesson and engage in online chats seemed like a dereliction of duty. The kids should have come first.
I'm not aware of any union that opposed online teaching. And I was a union rep at the time so I would have expected to know about it. Who gave you that information?
They wanted safeguards and raised concerns about venues. That's a different problem. Maybe the school in question simply messed up its policies?
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
I would be surprised if any of the reservoirs are actually connected, and the maximum distance that oil usually travels -horizontally to the wellbore- is no more than 3-700 meters. For North Sea development, operators will drill many, many well, typically with spacing of 6-800 meters.
Whilst you are right in most cases, there are several fields running down the border that are either shared or which are connected. Equinor alone owns at least half a dozen fields on the Norwegian side which are also producing on the UK side - incuding Statfjord.
And connectivity varies massively. I am dealing with one of the first field developments in the UK which we are now abandoning and where we are having to take into account the abandonment plans of adjacent fields because they can and will affect the recharge pressures of our field.
Indeed there have been some significant cock ups over the years with operators misinterpreting reservoir pressures because of connectivity to adjacent fields.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
I would be surprised if any of the reservoirs are actually connected, and the maximum distance that oil usually travels -horizontally to the wellbore- is no more than 3-700 meters. For North Sea development, operators will drill many, many well, typically with spacing of 6-800 meters.
Whilst you are right in most cases, there are several fields running down the border that are either shared or which are connected. Equinor alone owns at least half a dozen fields on the Norwegian side which are also producing on the UK side - incuding Statfjord.
And connectivity varies massively. I am dealing with one of the first field developments in the UK which we are now abandoning and where we are having to take into account the abandonment plans of adjacent fields because they can and will affect the recharge pressures of our field.
Indeed there have been some significant cock ups over the years with operators misinterpreting reservoir pressures because of connectivity to adjacent fields.
Can I just say I'm finding this a really interesting discussion between two actual experts? I don't know the first thing about it, but it seems that it's very complicated and the only thing we can agree on is that Trump is talking rubbish.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
No they fucking weren't you stupid YouTubing fat freak. I know this BECAUSE MY OLDER DAUGHTER WAS SENT HOME AND STAYED HOME
Luv. My kids stayed at home as well. My wife? Went to work as normal at her primary school. Which remained open for all the kids deemed essential.
You may not like it. I may not like it. My kids certainly didn’t like it. But *the schools* remained open.
Fat? Yes. Freak? Ooh get her…
Is this the new, inverted, "asylum hotels aren't four star because there's no room service"?
If most of the children aren't there, it's not really a school....
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
I would be surprised if any of the reservoirs are actually connected, and the maximum distance that oil usually travels -horizontally to the wellbore- is no more than 3-700 meters. For North Sea development, operators will drill many, many well, typically with spacing of 6-800 meters.
Whilst you are right in most cases, there are several fields running down the border that are either shared or which are connected. Equinor alone owns at least half a dozen fields on the Norwegian side which are also producing on the UK side - incuding Statfjord.
And connectivity varies massively. I am dealing with one of the first field developments in the UK which we are now abandoning and where we are having to take into account the abandonment plans of adjacent fields because they can and will affect the recharge pressures of our field.
Indeed there have been some significant cock ups over the years with operators misinterpreting reservoir pressures because of connectivity to adjacent fields.
Thank you for that. My North Sea knowledge is not as good as my US unconventionals knowledge.
Thinking more about this, gas fields are much more likely to be connected, as gas travels much more easily. Because it's a gas.
South Pars (Iran) and North Field (Qatar) are basically the same geological structure, and that stuff will really travel.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
I've often wondered what would happen if @Leon 2026 met @Leon 2020. I think they'd get into serious fisticuffs.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
I've often wondered what would happen if @Leon 2026 met @Leon 2020. I think they'd get into serious fisticuffs.
Luke Tryl @LukeTryl · 11m There is no doubt Rayner was able to reach lots of people other Labour pols struggle to reach, the problem now is you get lots of versions of “I thought she was different but turned out to be the same” and given low public trust not sure a hmrc outcome changes that immediately.
Luke Tryl @LukeTryl Still think lots of the analysis in Westminster has failed to factor in how much the tax stuff has changed (fairly or not) public opinion of Rayner, even more so because she started from a higher base.
I’ve looked it up. On 19th May 2020 - when Leon insists the schools were closed - I got a phone call. My wife had been injured on playground duty at Layfield school in Yarm. Had ruptured muscles in her foot. I drove over and was escorted through the building into the rear yard.
I did my best to carry her through from the yard through the classrooms to the car. Past the kids who looked shocked. And get her into the car. And off to A&E. Where she got a boot on her foot.
Though, according to Leon, not of that happened. Because the schools were closed and she wasn’t working. Presumably the limp she still has is also a figment of my freak imagination.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
I apologise for having way more foresight and 10 times the ability to extrapolate, than anyone else on this forum
Incidentally, talking about foresight, has anyone else noticed the weird DRYNESS? Apparently London is experiencing its driest April possibly ever, it's certainly in the top five and the forecast says it might win gold
Weird
My EXTRAPOLATIVE ABILITY which is UNEXAMPLED ON THIS FORUM says this is..... weird
I’ve looked it up. On 19th May 2020 - when Leon insists the schools were closed - I got a phone call. My wife had been injured on playground duty at Layfield school in Yarm. Had ruptured muscles in her foot. I drove over and was escorted through the building into the rear yard.
I did my best to carry her through from the yard through the classrooms to the car. Past the kids who looked shocked. And get her into the car. And off to A&E. Where she got a boot on her foot.
Though, according to Leon, not of that happened. Because the schools were closed and she wasn’t working. Presumably the limp she still has is also a figment of my freak imagination.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
I apologise for having way more foresight and 10 times the ability to extrapolate, than anyone else on this forum
Incidentally, talking about foresight, has anyone else noticed the weird DRYNESS? Apparently London is experiencing its driest April possibly ever, it's certainly in the top five and the forecast says it might win gold
Weird
My EXTRAPOLATIVE ABILITY which is UNEXAMPLED ON THIS FORUM says this is..... weird
Are you seeking to become dominant in these stakes and rain over us?
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
What annoyed me, is that in part due to union influence, the teachers in my area didn't deliver online classes and stay in touch. I can, kinda, understand a reluctance to teach in person, especially for those with health conditions. But refusing to post up a lesson and engage in online chats seemed like a dereliction of duty. The kids should have come first.
I despise teachers, Sack them all. Along with the lawyers
My mother and grandmother and aunt were teachers and my memory is they were members of smaller teachers union that did not agree with strikes and so on and is now long gone.
National union of school masters and mistresses is in my head.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
What annoyed me, is that in part due to union influence, the teachers in my area didn't deliver online classes and stay in touch. I can, kinda, understand a reluctance to teach in person, especially for those with health conditions. But refusing to post up a lesson and engage in online chats seemed like a dereliction of duty. The kids should have come first.
I despise teachers, Sack them all. Along with the lawyers
My mother and grandmother and aunt were teachers and my memory is they were members of smaller teachers union that did not agree with strikes and so on and is now long gone.
National union of school masters and mistresses is in my head.
The National Union of School Masters and the Union of Women Teachers merged into NASUWT.
You might be thinking of The Voice, which still exists, and has said it will not strike under any circumstances.
Or the ATL, which was my old union, which said it would never strike except as a last resort and in fact never did strike until the Morgan years and the pensions changes. That has now gone, taken over by the NUT as a power grab based on possibly the most dishonest prospectus I have ever seen, not forgotten Farage on Brexit or Salmond on Sindy.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
Why are we still discussing Brexit? Brexit was sub optimal for the country. That much was obvious then and it is of course obvious now.
It’s done. Let’s move on (all the poorer). Until a party or leader brings up rejoining the EU, what is the point discussing this?
I don't think we discuss it enough (!) Given we are not going back in any time soon, and most people think it was a mistake, we should be discussing how to make the best of a bad job and what compromises we can accept to make it sort of work.
Having said that, right now we really really should be discussing the oil -, gas -, plastics -, fertiliser - and in some cases food - free cliff we will be falling over in a few weeks time.
There's a strange silence
Partly people don't believe it will happen (wrongly I believe) and partly they really still don't get the impact. They have had years of being told that oil and gas are the ultimate evil and are having serious problems coming round to the idea that so much of modern life relies upon them. When your own Government persists in trying to limit or end the home grown supply of oil and gas, it is no susprise that peple find it difficult to understand just how important it is.
Ed Miliband is Crap is Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.
If the UK wasn't putting in increasing renewable generation then we'd be more reliant on oil and gas and even more in the shit.
Jackdaw and Rosebank were halted by a Scottish Judge not Miliband, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e1pw7npklo As EM said when interviewed, they have to get their EIA right to satisfy the court, otherwise they'll be stopped in court again.
Even the most accurate on what a disaster Trump2 would be, didn't have his Iran fiasco on their dance card. UK having more renewables, EVs and less requirement for fossil fuel means we can use oil and gas for other purposes.
You can criticise some specifics, CCS, floating wind, but the direction is correct.
(Snip)
Banning UK drilling and trying to drive out the oil companies has not meant increased UK investment in renewables. One is not dependent on the other.
I don't know how you'd test the counterfactual, nor refute it as you are doing. But happy to stand corrected as I'm sure you know more.
Solar power is completely independent of oil - we have never generated significant electricity from oil.
Solar has soared in installation, because it is cheaper than gas and getting cheaper each year. North Sea production doesn’t really affect the world market for gas, so the price is pretty much independent of that.
So solar would be smashing it in either case.
Thanks both.
Agreed on the oil; I was lazily assuming this was a discussion mainly about gas given we are currently quite reliant on it for electricity but looking back at the comment Richard replied to I see oil and gas were conflated. I entirely agree that oil and renewables are not really related.
On the gas point, I agree with you both in a perfect market. But I wonder about the practical implications in the market as it is. If gas becomes relatively costlier/harder to extract in the UK, to what extent are companies who would like to extract it choosing to reduce their presence in the UK electricity market overall, and to what extent are they transferring investment decisions into renewables? And what would this trend look like in the longer term?
I genuinely don't know, but interested if others have figures on this.
The companies selling it, sell it on the world market, at the world market price.
They have no generating capacity themselves.
The generating companies buy gas at the world market price.
The U.K. production, in any event, is not big enough to shift world prices (the U.K. benefit is taxes and jobs)
So U.K. production of gas would have next to no effect on the decision of the generating companies to buy more solar.
I'm with you on all of that.
What about investment in future generation though?
I can accept that the practical.answer may be that they just invest elsewhere in the world. But I am interested in whether we have figures to say that this is actually happening, rather than that the generating companies are switching investments towards renewable capacity in the UK.
I take the point also about solar being so cheap, but then prima facie does that not making switching investments rather than removing them from UK more attractive?
Apologies if I'm being dense!
The oil and gas producing companies are investing in oil and gas elsewhere. Norway for example. Or in shutting down the North Sea - lots of work in that. For a while.
Solar, in the U.K., is limited by planning. There is more money chasing projects that can happen.
Perhaps the bit you are missing is that oil (in particular) is required to make a lot of things. This is the long tail of net zero.
One of the most ghastly things about it (against stiff competition) is that the Norwegians are just sticking their own straw down there, sucking up what we're leaving, and selling it back to us. It's being perpetrated by people who hate this country, and supported by people who are mentally ill.
I would be surprised if any of the reservoirs are actually connected, and the maximum distance that oil usually travels -horizontally to the wellbore- is no more than 3-700 meters. For North Sea development, operators will drill many, many well, typically with spacing of 6-800 meters.
Whilst you are right in most cases, there are several fields running down the border that are either shared or which are connected. Equinor alone owns at least half a dozen fields on the Norwegian side which are also producing on the UK side - incuding Statfjord.
And connectivity varies massively. I am dealing with one of the first field developments in the UK which we are now abandoning and where we are having to take into account the abandonment plans of adjacent fields because they can and will affect the recharge pressures of our field.
Indeed there have been some significant cock ups over the years with operators misinterpreting reservoir pressures because of connectivity to adjacent fields.
Thank you for that. My North Sea knowledge is not as good as my US unconventionals knowledge.
Thinking more about this, gas fields are much more likely to be connected, as gas travels much more easily. Because it's a gas.
South Pars (Iran) and North Field (Qatar) are basically the same geological structure, and that stuff will really travel.
I am interested in the difference between what you are seeing in the US and what we see in the North Sea in terms of the effect of shut ins. Shut ins are a standard operating procedure on North Sea Fields, done many times as a normal part of reservoir management and because of completion failures. The biggest issue seen, both from personal experience and looking through the literature, is corrosion effects on equipment. The observed and expected impact on reservoir productivity is insignificant.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
I apologise for having way more foresight and 10 times the ability to extrapolate, than anyone else on this forum
Incidentally, talking about foresight, has anyone else noticed the weird DRYNESS? Apparently London is experiencing its driest April possibly ever, it's certainly in the top five and the forecast says it might win gold
Weird
My EXTRAPOLATIVE ABILITY which is UNEXAMPLED ON THIS FORUM says this is..... weird
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
No they fucking weren't you stupid YouTubing fat freak. I know this BECAUSE MY OLDER DAUGHTER WAS SENT HOME AND STAYED HOME
Luv. My kids stayed at home as well. My wife? Went to work as normal at her primary school. Which remained open for all the kids deemed essential.
You may not like it. I may not like it. My kids certainly didn’t like it. But *the schools* remained open.
Fat? Yes. Freak? Ooh get her…
Is this the new, inverted, "asylum hotels aren't four star because there's no room service"?
If most of the children aren't there, it's not really a school....
My kids also stayed at home. But wifey as a specialist teaching assistant went to work as normal because the school remained open.
I can think of plenty of places which are open which I am now allowed to go to. They are open whether I am allowed to attend or not…
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
I've often wondered what would happen if @Leon 2026 met @Leon 2020. I think they'd get into serious fisticuffs.
The Ayahuasca apparently has a half-life.
Actually it doesn't. No, seriously. The first dose I took in March 2022 (IIRC) changed my life hugely for the better - it jolted me out of the last suicidal, post divorce, post Covid shit - and the second dose I took in Colombia in 2024 has made me much more religious, and this seems to be permanent. As in, I was already quite religious, but now it verges on fervent, I no longer have much doubt that the universe, as I know it, is governed by some overriding emotional principle and in its mysterious ways it "tells a story". Actuality has a narrative. Weird but true
Of course you can dismiss this as delusional bollocks, and fair enough, but I got this from doing ayahuasca and it has definitely not worn off. If anything, it has strengthened. I recommend a dose to all PBers
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
I apologise for having way more foresight and 10 times the ability to extrapolate, than anyone else on this forum
Incidentally, talking about foresight, has anyone else noticed the weird DRYNESS? Apparently London is experiencing its driest April possibly ever, it's certainly in the top five and the forecast says it might win gold
Weird
My EXTRAPOLATIVE ABILITY which is UNEXAMPLED ON THIS FORUM says this is..... weird
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
I've often wondered what would happen if @Leon 2026 met @Leon 2020. I think they'd get into serious fisticuffs.
The Ayahuasca apparently has a half-life.
Actually it doesn't. No, seriously. The first dose I took in March 2022 (IIRC) changed my life hugely for the better - it jolted me out of the last suicidal, post divorce, post Covid shit - and the second dose I took in Colombia in 2024 has made me much more religious, and this seems to be permanent. As in, I was already quite religious, but now it verges on fervent, I no longer have much doubt that the universe, as I know it, is governed by some overriding emotional principle and in its mysterious ways it "tells a story". Actuality has a narrative. Weird but true
Of course you can dismiss this as delusional bollocks, and fair enough, but I got this from doing ayahuasca and it has definitely not worn off. If anything, it has strengthened. I recommend a dose to all PBers
Thanks. But the thing is that it being irriversible is exactly what would stop me from trying it.
THE MALVINAS WERE, ARE, AND WILL ALWAYS BE ARGENTINE. LONG LIVE FREEDOM, DAMN IT!
The thing I like about the Falklands/Malvinas dispute is that Argentina's claim is a lot more technical and legalistic than they pretend it is. Lazy people like to make these things moral issues (see also Chagos) when the actual details behind various positions are far from that.
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
I've often wondered what would happen if @Leon 2026 met @Leon 2020. I think they'd get into serious fisticuffs.
The Ayahuasca apparently has a half-life.
Actually it doesn't. No, seriously. The first dose I took in March 2022 (IIRC) changed my life hugely for the better - it jolted me out of the last suicidal, post divorce, post Covid shit - and the second dose I took in Colombia in 2024 has made me much more religious, and this seems to be permanent. As in, I was already quite religious, but now it verges on fervent, I no longer have much doubt that the universe, as I know it, is governed by some overriding emotional principle and in its mysterious ways it "tells a story". Actuality has a narrative. Weird but true
Of course you can dismiss this as delusional bollocks, and fair enough, but I got this from doing ayahuasca and it has definitely not worn off. If anything, it has strengthened. I recommend a dose to all PBers
Thanks. But the thing is that it being irriversible is exactly what would stop me from trying it.
A somewhat confused and confusing response
I do seriously believe that all intelligent people - IQ over 120, say - should try ayahuasca, at least once. I am not sure stupider people will benefit. But if you have a bright and open mind.... wow. It really is potentially life changing
That said, there are risks, and it is not to be taken lightly. It is certainly not a pint of cider. if any PBers want to try it then DM me and I will happily put them in touch with people who will provide, for a price, a safe-as-it-gets introduction. DYOR
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
I apologise for having way more foresight and 10 times the ability to extrapolate, than anyone else on this forum
Incidentally, talking about foresight, has anyone else noticed the weird DRYNESS? Apparently London is experiencing its driest April possibly ever, it's certainly in the top five and the forecast says it might win gold
Weird
My EXTRAPOLATIVE ABILITY which is UNEXAMPLED ON THIS FORUM says this is..... weird
I remember reading a couple of years ago that our weather was going to replicate Alaska's and become continually wet.
Here is the hard data. Make of it what you will, especially the PB atheists
"The 2019 "God encounter" survey (Griffiths, et al) sampled 3,476 psychedelic users - including a 435-person ayahuasca subgroup - alongside 809 non-drug controls. Across the psychedelic group, identification as atheist dropped from 21% before the experience to 8% after. Across thousands surveyed about personal encounters with "God" or "ultimate reality," more than two-thirds of self-identified atheists shed that label after the encounter. The ayahuasca subgroup, notably, tended to have the highest rates of endorsing positive features and enduring consequences of the experience (Johns Hopkins University) among the four psychedelic groups compared."
Just watching Jamie Oliver's "Together" made in 2022 where he cooks up a dinner for "all the lovely teachers that really went through it during the lockdown"
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
You dormant fuck. The schools were open.
Hm. Not entirely. There was one period where schools were closed for, what, three months in summer 2020, and anotger period in winter 2021 for which they were closed for about two, two and a half months. Sone teachera did heroically but the unions were being incredibly difficult.
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
My son's school stayed open for essential workers kids throughout the pandemic. As far as I can tell that was the norm. Teachers taught from their classrooms either with a handful of kids or direct to streaming to students at home. My son did not miss a single day's school throughout the whole of lockdown.
Well, yet again YOU had a really lovely lockdown and everything was perfect as you keep telling us. Others, not so much
One of the most enjoyable things was watching you go to pieces on a daily basis thinking the end of the world was coming. You are in no position to criticise anyone now given your level of scaremongering during the pandemic.
I apologise for having way more foresight and 10 times the ability to extrapolate, than anyone else on this forum
Incidentally, talking about foresight, has anyone else noticed the weird DRYNESS? Apparently London is experiencing its driest April possibly ever, it's certainly in the top five and the forecast says it might win gold
Weird
My EXTRAPOLATIVE ABILITY which is UNEXAMPLED ON THIS FORUM says this is..... weird
We have a small pond in the garden and it is uncannily low of water for April.
Here is the hard data. Make of it what you will, especially the PB atheists
"The 2019 "God encounter" survey (Griffiths, et al) sampled 3,476 psychedelic users - including a 435-person ayahuasca subgroup - alongside 809 non-drug controls. Across the psychedelic group, identification as atheist dropped from 21% before the experience to 8% after. Across thousands surveyed about personal encounters with "God" or "ultimate reality," more than two-thirds of self-identified atheists shed that label after the encounter. The ayahuasca subgroup, notably, tended to have the highest rates of endorsing positive features and enduring consequences of the experience (Johns Hopkins University) among the four psychedelic groups compared."
Here is the hard data. Make of it what you will, especially the PB atheists
"The 2019 "God encounter" survey (Griffiths, et al) sampled 3,476 psychedelic users - including a 435-person ayahuasca subgroup - alongside 809 non-drug controls. Across the psychedelic group, identification as atheist dropped from 21% before the experience to 8% after. Across thousands surveyed about personal encounters with "God" or "ultimate reality," more than two-thirds of self-identified atheists shed that label after the encounter. The ayahuasca subgroup, notably, tended to have the highest rates of endorsing positive features and enduring consequences of the experience (Johns Hopkins University) among the four psychedelic groups compared."
Comments
"We are best in the world! We have beaten England! England, birthplace of giants..
..Lord Nelson, Lord Beaverbrook, Sir Winston Churchill, Sir Anthony Eden, Clement Attlee, Henry Cooper, Lady Diana, vi har slått dem alle sammen, vi har slått dem alle sammen! [we have beaten them all, we have beaten them all!]. Maggie Thatcher, can you hear me? Maggie Thatcher ... your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!"
https://x.com/ZackPolanski/status/2047749191003185503
Wes Streeting's main problem here is that people can't stand Wes Streeting.
Yeah, thanks for STAYING AT HOME and FUCKING UP OUR KIDS you WORKSHY TWATS. Here's a damn canape. Try not to choke. Wankers
It matters not. We are heading for civil unrest, and, likely, deportations
They go round and round in endless circles.
Blimey and wow!
That’s clearly nonsense. You’re cynically using rape as a reason to oppose immigration. If you cared about rape, there are dozens of policies that government could enact to reduce rapes and/or to find and prosecute those who commit rape that would be far more effective than banning immigration.
Darren Johnson
@DarrenJohnson66
·
53m
I fucking love Wes Streeting compared to you.
https://x.com/DarrenJohnson66/status/2047770992521441315
Blue Lab haven't a chance in this forthcoming contest.
According to the reports, neither the mother nor the father was likely to be Melania.
I wouldn't be confident to name names, but fascinating, and if true, morally and legally disgusting nonetheless.
Years ago, I asked a marine biologist why octopuses/octopi were so smart, since other smart animals were long lived and social, while octopuses/octopi were neither. He told me that they weren't all that smart, about as smart as rats. Which struck me as evasive, after I thought about it.
More seriously, if people wanted to thank teachers that kept schools open as long as possible - and arguably longer than was possible - under impossible conditions and constant ineptitude from the centre, a public crucifixion of every civil servant who went to those boozy parties would be a much better start.
In unrelated news, half the Cabinet has been funded by the pro-Israel lobby.
By far and away the worst thing Mrs Thatcher did was care in the community.
It is not looking likely Mark Williams will be joining whichever it is.
Unless, of course, at some point you have talking what we call in polite society shucking fullbit .
It was, without doubt, the most miserable period of my life.
So most teachers were at home.
But can we just all agree it was a bloody nightmare and it should not be done again.
I know a lot of misinformation is out there about this, mostly from lunatics who keep saying 'this, or this, could be done.' Cummings, for example, who is a liar, a bully, a failure, a forger, a fantasist and an idiot who kept blaming 'the unions' or 'the teachers' or 'the blob' for his own stupidity and ineptitude in this.
It couldn't.
I've been into this in lots of times and I'm not going to go over the details again. But suffice to say, if you wanted people isolated to stop the spread of the disease, we couldn't keep schools open. We just didn't have the staff. If we did more than half the time we didn't have the children.
We were told to test. The tests weren't provided. When they were provided, the staff to do them weren't. So we couldn't do them. We were ordered to do them, and reopen. We couldn't therefore reopen. We were told exams would go ahead. It was obvious that due to the numbers off with illness we couldn't. We were then, when they were finally cancelled, to do our own assessments. Bizarrely, the Covid year of 2022 had up to five times as many exams as their peers normally would.
We were told to keep children in 'bubbles.' Nobody could tell us what that meant. We had to make it up as we went along because any time we tried to get clarification from the centre they snapped 'it's plain what we mean' (which was a lie, but most DfE civil servants are sadly liars).
We were ordered to keep most children at home in March 2020. We had no say in it. We weren't allowed to reopen before the summer even if we wanted to. That is however to ignore the fact that they *were* still open for some children. All the way through. And we were still teaching. All the way through. Online, under very difficult conditions, because the government refused to spend money on decent technology, although they spent it on foreign holidays and restaurant meals.
If you want my candid opinion the second lockdown could and should have been avoided. But that was entirely due (a) to the utter fucking stupidity of Johnson and Cumstain in allowing their demented 'airbridge' for holidays which reseeded the virus everywhere and (b) the even greater stupidity of not moving to properly blended learning where children had two weeks in and one online to try and spread resources more effectively. The lockdown became needed because of the truly shocking mismanagement of schools in the autumn term of 2020.
Continue to spout the lies and propaganda of neo-Nazis like that loathsome creep Contrarian if you like. But please be aware that is all they are.
Oh and another thing - I don't think Covid caused problems in schools, so much as demonstrating with brutal clarity just how big a shambles and a lash-up the whole system is.
You may not like it. I may not like it. My kids certainly didn’t like it. But *the schools* remained open.
Fat? Yes. Freak? Ooh get her…
See this TGS piece: https://www.tgs.com/well-and-subsurface-intel/how-do-shut-ins-impact-well-performance
They wanted safeguards and raised concerns about venues. That's a different problem. Maybe the school in question simply messed up its policies?
And connectivity varies massively. I am dealing with one of the first field developments in the UK which we are now abandoning and where we are having to take into account the abandonment plans of adjacent fields because they can and will affect the recharge pressures of our field.
Indeed there have been some significant cock ups over the years with operators misinterpreting reservoir pressures because of connectivity to adjacent fields.
If most of the children aren't there, it's not really a school....
Thinking more about this, gas fields are much more likely to be connected, as gas travels much more easily. Because it's a gas.
South Pars (Iran) and North Field (Qatar) are basically the same geological structure, and that stuff will really travel.
Luke Tryl
@LukeTryl
·
11m
There is no doubt Rayner was able to reach lots of people other Labour pols struggle to reach, the problem now is you get lots of versions of “I thought she was different but turned out to be the same” and given low public trust not sure a hmrc outcome changes that immediately.
Luke Tryl
@LukeTryl
Still think lots of the analysis in Westminster has failed to factor in how much the tax stuff has changed (fairly or not) public opinion of Rayner, even more so because she started from a higher base.
https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2047793090451153042
I did my best to carry her through from the yard through the classrooms to the car. Past the kids who looked shocked. And get her into the car. And off to A&E. Where she got a boot on her foot.
Though, according to Leon, not of that happened. Because the schools were closed and she wasn’t working. Presumably the limp she still has is also a figment of my freak imagination.
Incidentally, talking about foresight, has anyone else noticed the weird DRYNESS? Apparently London is experiencing its driest April possibly ever, it's certainly in the top five and the forecast says it might win gold
Weird
My EXTRAPOLATIVE ABILITY which is UNEXAMPLED ON THIS FORUM says this is..... weird
National union of school masters and mistresses is in my head.
@ydoethur - is my memory correct?
You might be thinking of The Voice, which still exists, and has said it will not strike under any circumstances.
Or the ATL, which was my old union, which said it would never strike except as a last resort and in fact never did strike until the Morgan years and the pensions changes. That has now gone, taken over by the NUT as a power grab based on possibly the most dishonest prospectus I have ever seen, not forgotten Farage on Brexit or Salmond on Sindy.
I can think of plenty of places which are open which I am now allowed to go to. They are open whether I am allowed to attend or not…
Of course you can dismiss this as delusional bollocks, and fair enough, but I got this from doing ayahuasca and it has definitely not worn off. If anything, it has strengthened. I recommend a dose to all PBers
https://x.com/jmilei_english/status/2047781683999514681
THE MALVINAS WERE, ARE, AND WILL ALWAYS BE ARGENTINE.
LONG LIVE FREEDOM, DAMN IT!
I do seriously believe that all intelligent people - IQ over 120, say - should try ayahuasca, at least once. I am not sure stupider people will benefit. But if you have a bright and open mind.... wow. It really is potentially life changing
That said, there are risks, and it is not to be taken lightly. It is certainly not a pint of cider. if any PBers want to try it then DM me and I will happily put them in touch with people who will provide, for a price, a safe-as-it-gets introduction. DYOR
Here is the hard data. Make of it what you will, especially the PB atheists
"The 2019 "God encounter" survey (Griffiths, et al) sampled 3,476 psychedelic users - including a 435-person ayahuasca subgroup - alongside 809 non-drug controls. Across the psychedelic group, identification as atheist dropped from 21% before the experience to 8% after. Across thousands surveyed about personal encounters with "God" or "ultimate reality," more than two-thirds of self-identified atheists shed that label after the encounter. The ayahuasca subgroup, notably, tended to have the highest rates of endorsing positive features and enduring consequences of the experience (Johns Hopkins University) among the four psychedelic groups compared."