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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,924
    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Ed Miliband lost in 2015 to Cameron and Farage, at least Starmer won an election in 2024, they may as well keep him rather than shift to Red Ed who would be a gift to the Conservatives and Reform
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 2,007
    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,924
    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 2,007
    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,954
    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,366
    Dopermean said:

    After PeterthePunter's disparaging comments about Betfair, I've checked my bets and discovered that the terms for the "local election winning party" market have been changed significantly.
    From Party with the most council leaders and Mayors to most seats, I'm quite disgruntled as I only made the bet because of the original terms.

    So sincere apologies to PtP for any scepticism and I will be more wary of Betfair in future.

    https://support.betfair.com/app/answers/detail/6158-betfairs-complaints-procedure/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420
    kle4 said:

    Badenoch has got to be favourite for PM after the next election.

    Not if the Tories capitulate after the Locals. Never forget that 1/3 of the Tories (estimate) want to capitulate to Reform even now.
    Recent citation required.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,793

    Nigelb said:

    The oil market just passed its breaking point.
    And it doesn’t matter if the Strait of Hormuz opens tomorrow.
    Here’s why the damage is already done 🧵

    https://x.com/AlaliQasem/status/2046260617388933289

    Any oil traders around to comment on this thread ?

    Pretty much on the money

    {shower curtain rustles}

    The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
    Vorlonsbury
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,828
    edited April 21
    Leon said:

    Let's take a step back

    THE WHOLE THING IS RIDICULOUS

    Against the advice of his civil servants, and contrary to actual vetting, Keir Starmer appointed a twice disgraced ex Minister to our most important diplomatic role: not only that Starmer apppointed a man who the PM KNEW maintained a close friendship with a child sex convict and trafficker, Jeffrey Epstein, AFTER that man, Epstein, had been convicted of these crimes

    If the Tories did this the universe would explode in outrage (and, rightly)

    Why did Starmer do it? Why take that insane security risk? There is no explanation other than "Mandelson would know how to talk to Trump, he's another sex criminal"

    Really???

    Setting aside the ongoing lies and cover-up, the absurd "stolen phone", this is enough, Starmer has gotta go

    Johnson would have duked this out. But Johnson should never be the benchmark. Why did Starmer do it? For the reasons you state, and despite the lack of finger prints it was Starmer who made the call.

    At the time it might have been a great call, but now it isn't. Starmer either justifies why he made the call truthfully or he goes. The " I know nothing" defence is absurd and straight out of Fawlty Towers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    edited April 21
    Russia has started selling gold, after years of accumulating the stuff.

    https://united24media.com/latest-news/russia-sells-22-tons-of-gold-to-curb-growing-federal-budget-deficit-18083

    They sold around 22 tons, 1% of their holding and worth around $7bn, in Q1 this year to help plug their budget deficit.

    The sales are likely to China and/or India, at a significant discount to the global market rate, as Western countries won’t touch the stuff.
  • Sandpit said:

    Russia has started selling gold, after years of accumulating the stuff.

    https://united24media.com/latest-news/russia-sells-22-tons-of-gold-to-curb-growing-federal-budget-deficit-18083

    They sold around 22 tons, 1% of their holding and worth around $7bn, in Q1 this year to help plug their budget deficit.

    Quite remarkable that was needed at the same time oil has surged in price.

    Kinetic sanctions working?
  • Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    Sandpit said:

    Russia has started selling gold, after years of accumulating the stuff.

    https://united24media.com/latest-news/russia-sells-22-tons-of-gold-to-curb-growing-federal-budget-deficit-18083

    They sold around 22 tons, 1% of their holding and worth around $7bn, in Q1 this year to help plug their budget deficit.

    Quite remarkable that was needed at the same time oil has surged in price.

    Kinetic sanctions working?
    Kinetic sanctions are definitely working, the Tuapse refinery has been properly on fire for three days now, and is likely offline for years. Many O&G facilities now appear to have very little defence against drone strikes, which are happening on a daily basis.

    The dodgy tankers are also reduced in number, thanks to navies around the world taking them out in various ways.

    There’s been a stream of bad news out of the Russian central bank in recent weeks, loans are being defaulted and the property market has ground to a halt thanks to high interest rates.

    Even sign-on and death-in-service payments to the military have been reduced, which will have an impact on recruitment. There’s constant rumours that the internet crackdown of recent weeks is a forebearer to a general mobilisation over the summer. TV news programmes are starting to openly question the aims of the war.

    As has been discussed, the collapse happens slowly for a while and then all at once. Hopefully it happens sooner rather than later.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
    The GOP already have control of all three branches, and are explicitly not packing the court. I imagine there’s some pressure on Thomas (77) and Alito (76) to retire this summer, if it looks like the mid-term Senate races might be close.

    I agree that GOP antics in the Senate in 2016 were wrong through, at least when compared to their same antics in 2020 when the boot was on the other foot.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    The Iranian-flagged ship seized by the Americans yesterday in the Gulf of Oman, was reportly inbound from China with a cargo of chemicals with military use.

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/2046387656376914124

    Talks continue in Pakistan today, hopefully the ceasefire continues to hold. I may have a personal interest in this!
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338
    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
    The GOP already have control of all three branches, and are explicitly not packing the court. I imagine there’s some pressure on Thomas (77) and Alito (76) to retire this summer, if it looks like the mid-term Senate races might be close.

    I agree that GOP antics in the Senate in 2016 were wrong through, at least when compared to their same antics in 2020 when the boot was on the other foot.
    They are not packing the court as their shenanigans have already packed it to a 6-3 advantage.

    If the shoe were on the other foot and the Democrats had a 6-3 advantage but the GOP won elections across the board to the Presidency and both houses of Congress do you seriously think they would sit back and do nothing?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Morning all
    YouGov sticks it in reverse and floors it

    🚨 Westminster Voting Intention:

    ➡️ REF: 27% (+3)
    🌳 CON: 17% (-2)
    🟢 GRN: 17% (-1)
    🌹 LAB: 16% (-1)
    🔶️ LDEM: 14% (+1)

    From @YouGov
    Changes with 13th April
  • edited April 21

    The eternal puzzle remains why exactly Keir Starmer was so keen to appoint Mandelson as ambassador. Fear of Trump? But he had someone in place who was known to be on good terms with Trump and we know Trump wasn't keen on Mandy. Such an inexplicable and unnecessary own goal.

    The answer is as simple as it is unbelievable, but simple nonetheless.

    Keir Starmer is not only the most evil leader this country has had since 1688, he is also the most stupid.

    All of his actions and those of his front bench suddenly become explicable as soon as you realise his stupidity is no act, it is for real.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
    The GOP already have control of all three branches, and are explicitly not packing the court. I imagine there’s some pressure on Thomas (77) and Alito (76) to retire this summer, if it looks like the mid-term Senate races might be close.

    I agree that GOP antics in the Senate in 2016 were wrong through, at least when compared to their same antics in 2020 when the boot was on the other foot.
    They are not packing the court as their shenanigans have already packed it to a 6-3 advantage.

    If the shoe were on the other foot and the Democrats had a 6-3 advantage but the GOP won elections across the board to the Presidency and both houses of Congress do you seriously think they would sit back and do nothing?
    There’s quite the difference between slow-walking one vacancy in 2016, and packing the court from nine to 13 members.

    I actually don’t think either side would pack the court, but Mr Carville, a well-respected and influential strategist, just handed his opponents a free hit by even suggesting it.
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338
    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,366
    Sandpit said:

    Russia has started selling gold, after years of accumulating the stuff.

    https://united24media.com/latest-news/russia-sells-22-tons-of-gold-to-curb-growing-federal-budget-deficit-18083

    They sold around 22 tons, 1% of their holding and worth around $7bn, in Q1 this year to help plug their budget deficit.

    The sales are likely to China and/or India, at a significant discount to the global market rate, as Western countries won’t touch the stuff.

    Car joke from Russian newspaper (13 seconds):-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PoD5A5hiiyk
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,472

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    For goodness sake. She knew exactly what she was posting and why she was posting it.

    If she is the future of Labour, we're finished outside of the North London supper party set.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986
    Trump tariff refunds begin but consumers likely to miss out : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7vqgge5g8lo

    The US Court of International Trade in March ordered customs officials to refund the more than $160bn (£121bn) the government had collected, putting roughly 330,000 importers in a position to potentially win back some money.

    Has any government ever had to repay as much as $160 billion? That’s over a month’s worth of UK government tax receipts.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,195

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    Yeah, you’re right. She’s clearly the injured party here !
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,870
    edited April 21

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    Social Media never forgets...

    It is why we struggle to find competent politicians. Twitter mobs have killed politics.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    edited April 21

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    It’s not the only evidence of Lady Nugee’s snobbery, but it’s the most high profile and the reason she resigned from the shadow cabinet.

    She’s the stereotypical Champagne socialist.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,870
    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,268

    https://x.com/Baddiel/status/2045867695514534006

    'Confused as to why politicians say, on another attempted arson attack on a Jewish building, “these terrorists are trying to divide us - and will not succeed etc etc.” Are they? I’d say that diviseness is not the object. I’d say it’s trying to kill Jews.'

    Can't say this surprises me. It's true that adversaries like Russia try to stoke division but the main cause of antisemitic attacks is surely Jew hatred, not a desire to divide us. It's very strange that in a country which prides itself on respecting and giving minorities a voice, that attacks on a racial and religious minority would be spun as an attack on all of us, whose target is not really that specific group but the country as a whole. So as to divide us.

    Victimisation as Social Glue.

    "Collective Victimhood and Social Prejudice: A Post-Holocaust Theory of anti-Semitism"

    https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:709e5413-624f-4d0a-ba4d-03360cc8768b/files/m1022dadc8ffc3a4888c32b73248817ed
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986

    Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
    I don’t see why inhabitants of DC should be deprived a vote on the President and deprived of representation in Congress. Imagine if the UK abolished the Cities of London and Westminster constituency and said the people there just didn’t get a vote in general elections. That would be the equivalent.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,287
    It’s funny how the economic indicators for Labour haven’t been bad at all. Not brilliantly good either, but it wasn’t so long ago that some people on PB were predicting an IMF bailout.

    In fairness, always a chance they get revised, and my usual assumption that governments only have a minor impact on this stuff. But the NICs increases, minimum wage etc have not had the catastrophic impact predicted on here.

    UK unemployment rate sees surprise fall to 4.9% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd84pkkjgpo
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,877
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    Social Media never forgets...
    And people who want to be offended (pretty much all of us, it's emotionally very satisfying) will stay offended. Because taking offence can be exciting.

    Oh, and good news: unemployment figures down

    Bad news: measured to the end of February.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,618
    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    China won't be able to afford a single lock with that.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,195
    Eabhal said:

    It’s funny how the economic indicators for Labour haven’t been bad at all. Not brilliantly good either, but it wasn’t so long ago that some people on PB were predicting an IMF bailout.

    In fairness, always a chance they get revised, and my usual assumption that governments only have a minor impact on this stuff. But the NICs increases, minimum wage etc have not had the catastrophic impact predicted on here.

    UK unemployment rate sees surprise fall to 4.9% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd84pkkjgpo

    Due mainly to a rise in economic inactivity. Nothing to celebrate.

    https://x.com/julianhjessop/status/2046472240481394927?s=61

    Oh, and debt is still an issue. It hasn’t gone away. But it’s not just us. Fine is you can service it. However the recent bond auction was not great given the rate the govt was offering

    https://x.com/fahadzaf/status/2046475006868107570?s=61
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
    The GOP already have control of all three branches, and are explicitly not packing the court. I imagine there’s some pressure on Thomas (77) and Alito (76) to retire this summer, if it looks like the mid-term Senate races might be close.

    I agree that GOP antics in the Senate in 2016 were wrong through, at least when compared to their same antics in 2020 when the boot was on the other foot.
    Thomas shouldn’t be retiring. He should be going to jail for taking $4.2 million in “gifts” and failing to declare much of it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,195

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    Social Media never forgets...
    And people who want to be offended (pretty much all of us, it's emotionally very satisfying) will stay offended. Because taking offence can be exciting.

    Oh, and good news: unemployment figures down

    Bad news: measured to the end of February.
    Is it really good news if it’s mainly down to a rise in economic inactivity ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,502

    Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
    I don’t see why inhabitants of DC should be deprived a vote on the President and deprived of representation in Congress. Imagine if the UK abolished the Cities of London and Westminster constituency and said the people there just didn’t get a vote in general elections. That would be the equivalent.
    It’s one of the stupidities of the Constitution, that it’s not part of any State so is neutral ground between them all.

    Which may have worked on some level when almost all the inhabitants were slaves and had no vote anyway, but is ludicrous now.

    It could of course be resolved by restricting DC to the Capitol and SC and merging the city back into Maryland. It doesn’t really need statehood from that point of view. But of course those two Senators would do an awful lot to correct the bias of the Senate towards the Republicans, which is why it is being proposed.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,451
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
    The GOP already have control of all three branches, and are explicitly not packing the court. I imagine there’s some pressure on Thomas (77) and Alito (76) to retire this summer, if it looks like the mid-term Senate races might be close.

    I agree that GOP antics in the Senate in 2016 were wrong through, at least when compared to their same antics in 2020 when the boot was on the other foot.
    They are not packing the court as their shenanigans have already packed it to a 6-3 advantage.

    If the shoe were on the other foot and the Democrats had a 6-3 advantage but the GOP won elections across the board to the Presidency and both houses of Congress do you seriously think they would sit back and do nothing?
    There’s quite the difference between slow-walking one vacancy in 2016, and packing the court from nine to 13 members.

    I actually don’t think either side would pack the court, but Mr Carville, a well-respected and influential strategist, just handed his opponents a free hit by even suggesting it.
    He’s a pundit whose last leading role was in 2008 (advising Clinton). He’s just well known in the media and among political nerds
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    You really don't get this politics thing, do you?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    edited April 21
    ..
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420
    Sandpit said:

    The Iranian-flagged ship seized by the Americans yesterday in the Gulf of Oman, was reportly inbound from China with a cargo of chemicals with military use.

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/2046387656376914124

    Talks continue in Pakistan today, hopefully the ceasefire continues to hold. I may have a personal interest in this!

    But talks without Iran?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,649
    edited April 21

    Dopermean said:

    After PeterthePunter's disparaging comments about Betfair, I've checked my bets and discovered that the terms for the "local election winning party" market have been changed significantly.
    From Party with the most council leaders and Mayors to most seats, I'm quite disgruntled as I only made the bet because of the original terms.

    So sincere apologies to PtP for any scepticism and I will be more wary of Betfair in future.

    https://support.betfair.com/app/answers/detail/6158-betfairs-complaints-procedure/
    @Doperman/DJ

    No apologies necessary.

    For the record, my disdain for Betfair arose from their handling of the 2020 US Election in which I had invested heavily. They declined to pay out in accordance with their market rules. They did not however indicate when they would pay out or in accordance with which rules or subsequent events. They simply remained silent until some time after the failed coup when they finally settled, about two months after the election result was called. No explanation was given for the delay, or for why they did settle when they did.

    I wrote to them many times but got no sense. In fact I got the distinct impression that complaints on the matter were being handled by juniors who knew little about betting, or much else. It was a depressing experience. I also wrote to the Gambling Commission and had some interesting phone conversations with them. They were plainly not happy with Betfair but if they issued them a warning it was not made public.

    I don't think Betfair are crooks but I do think they are incompetent. This is particularly evident in their framing of the terms of bets, and their response to complaints. I still have the occasional small bet with them, usually on football results and other uncomplicated events, but I wouldn't stake large sums, as I once did, because I wouldn't trust them to devise clears rules or stick to them. As Doperman found too, they are far to apt to make it up as they go along.

    You can't be having that where serious sums are at stake.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,930

    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    China won't be able to afford a single lock with that.
    Good morning, everyone.

    When it comes to demographics, China's in poor shape. But South Korea is looking at something absolutely horrendous.
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    For goodness sake. She knew exactly what she was posting and why she was posting it.

    If she is the future of Labour, we're finished outside of the North London supper party set.
    I'm prepared to accept that she could hazard a guess as to what others might draw from it. But unlike you, I'm not a mind reader! 😁
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    You really don't get this politics thing, do you?
    Evidently not.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,451

    Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
    I don’t see why inhabitants of DC should be deprived a vote on the President and deprived of representation in Congress. Imagine if the UK abolished the Cities of London and Westminster constituency and said the people there just didn’t get a vote in general elections. That would be the equivalent.
    Because Washington DC is deliberately not a State (it would give too much power to a State for the capital to be located there). And the president is the chosen leader of the combined States
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,356
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    It’s not the only evidence of Lady Nugee’s snobbery, but it’s the most high profile and the reason she resigned from the shadow cabinet.

    She’s the stereotypical Champagne socialist.
    She may be, and I'm no-one to speak up for socialists of any description, but fwiw a good friend of mine worked for her as an aide for a year and said she's a genuinely nice and well-meaning person.

    So her climb up the greasy pole is probably doomed.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,325
    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    https://x.com/i/status/2046478260796526598
    Dan Hodges noting Labour seem to be 'uncircling the wagons'

    Ed M being helpfully unhelpful
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,649
    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    It’s not the only evidence of Lady Nugee’s snobbery, but it’s the most high profile and the reason she resigned from the shadow cabinet.

    She’s the stereotypical Champagne socialist.
    I must have missed the other examples.

    If she is a snob, and a chapagne socialist (whatever that is), then she has a lot of company.

    I don't view her as any worse than a lot of other politicians, but I quite like her punchiness. She'd be quite a scrapper at PMQs, I think
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
    I don’t see why inhabitants of DC should be deprived a vote on the President and deprived of representation in Congress. Imagine if the UK abolished the Cities of London and Westminster constituency and said the people there just didn’t get a vote in general elections. That would be the equivalent.
    It’s one of the stupidities of the Constitution, that it’s not part of any State so is neutral ground between them all.

    Which may have worked on some level when almost all the inhabitants were slaves and had no vote anyway, but is ludicrous now.

    It could of course be resolved by restricting DC to the Capitol and SC and merging the city back into Maryland. It doesn’t really need statehood from that point of view. But of course those two Senators would do an awful lot to correct the bias of the Senate towards the Republicans, which is why it is being proposed.
    The Republicans will run with it for all they are worth, if they lose a Senate seat in Texas this November.
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    Social Media never forgets...

    It is why we struggle to find competent politicians. Twitter mobs have killed politics.
    Sadly, that's very true. The dark side of social media.
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    But she didn't *say* anything!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,325

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    The incident did make me laugh because there was a lot of pearl clutching by the Tories and the right wing media and then when they wheeled out the owner he looked like your archetypal BNP supporter .
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    Yeah, you’re right. She’s clearly the injured party here !
    She was, she was sacked! Who else was injured in this?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,239

    Sandpit said:

    Russia has started selling gold, after years of accumulating the stuff.

    https://united24media.com/latest-news/russia-sells-22-tons-of-gold-to-curb-growing-federal-budget-deficit-18083

    They sold around 22 tons, 1% of their holding and worth around $7bn, in Q1 this year to help plug their budget deficit.

    Quite remarkable that was needed at the same time oil has surged in price.

    Kinetic sanctions working?
    Well, Q1 includes January and February, before the Iran War boosted oil prices. Ukraine would have to make a lot of progress in their ranged campaign to force Russia to sell more gold in Q2.

    It's a sign of how committed Putin and Russia are to pursuing the war to the very end that they're take this step. Leaves Europe with a choice: prepare for another decade of war, or increase support for Ukraine so that they can win the war more quickly, or deal with the consequences of a Ukrainian defeat.

    Russia does not look likely to settle for a ceasefire on the current lines, as Europeans are aiming for. Win, or lose, there is no draw.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,649

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    But she didn't *say* anything!
    Didn't have to.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,649
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    The incident did make me laugh because there was a lot of pearl clutching by the Tories and the right wing media and then when they wheeled out the owner he looked like your archetypal BNP supporter .
    Yes, it remains an amusing episode, but one that highlights Labour's dilemma. In order to win power, they have to win over voters like that who are alien to their posher clientele.

    Tricky.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,287
    edited April 21
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    It’s funny how the economic indicators for Labour haven’t been bad at all. Not brilliantly good either, but it wasn’t so long ago that some people on PB were predicting an IMF bailout.

    In fairness, always a chance they get revised, and my usual assumption that governments only have a minor impact on this stuff. But the NICs increases, minimum wage etc have not had the catastrophic impact predicted on here.

    UK unemployment rate sees surprise fall to 4.9% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd84pkkjgpo

    Due mainly to a rise in economic inactivity. Nothing to celebrate.

    https://x.com/julianhjessop/status/2046472240481394927?s=61

    Oh, and debt is still an issue. It hasn’t gone away. But it’s not just us. Fine is you can service it. However the recent bond auction was not great given the rate the govt was offering

    https://x.com/fahadzaf/status/2046475006868107570?s=61
    Employment rate, when Labour got in v now: 74.7 v 75
    Inactivity rate: 21.9 v 21
    Unemployment: 4.2 v 4.9

    Small moments but something interesting going on there.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,870

    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    China won't be able to afford a single lock with that.
    Good morning, everyone.

    When it comes to demographics, China's in poor shape. But South Korea is looking at something absolutely horrendous.
    As are Taiwan, Singapore Japan in terms of a greying population, but we shouldn't be complacent. Our population would collapse similarly, albeit more slowly, without immigration.

    I suspect those African projections are too high, fertility rates are dropping quickly there too, albeit still expansionary.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420
    Another 1,040 Russian troops and 83 artillery/MLRS not reporting for duty in Ukraine this morning.

    Context: in only 7 years did the annual number of dead and injured US combatants in the Vietnam war exceed this Russian daily total. The highest annual total - in 1968 - had a number of US dead and injured that would be the equivalent of just over a fortnight of these Russian numbers. The population of the USA was 200m in 1968. The Russian population today is estimated at c.145m.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986

    Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
    I don’t see why inhabitants of DC should be deprived a vote on the President and deprived of representation in Congress. Imagine if the UK abolished the Cities of London and Westminster constituency and said the people there just didn’t get a vote in general elections. That would be the equivalent.
    Because Washington DC is deliberately not a State (it would give too much power to a State for the capital to be located there). And the president is the chosen leader of the combined States
    Does it give too much power to Westminster for the Houses of Parliament to be there? Should we get rid of that MP?

    I know why DC gets no federal representation, but it’s obviously a stupid thing in the modern world. Over half a million people shouldn’t be disenfranchised.

    As for Puerto Rico, both US parties have supported statehood for years, although the GOP changed its platform in 2024. PR has had four referendums, all supporting statehood. Get on with it!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    But she didn't *say* anything!
    The Paddington Hard Stare doesn't SAY anything either...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    edited April 21

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Democratic Party strategist James Carville, about to appear in the Republican mid-term campaign.

    https://x.com/morsereport/status/2045557690953507095
    https://x.com/owengregorian/status/2045486444337107336

    "If the Democrats win the presidency and both houses of Congress, I think on day one, they should make Puerto Rico [and] D.C. a state, and they should expand the Supreme Court to 13. F--- it. Eat our dust.

    "Don't run on it. Don't talk about it. Just do it,"

    They bloody well should do it.

    The GOP would do it if the shoe were reversed.

    The shenanigans not confirming Obama's nominee for SCOTUS is part of why the Court is as it is today.
    I don’t see why inhabitants of DC should be deprived a vote on the President and deprived of representation in Congress. Imagine if the UK abolished the Cities of London and Westminster constituency and said the people there just didn’t get a vote in general elections. That would be the equivalent.
    It’s one of the stupidities of the Constitution, that it’s not part of any State so is neutral ground between them all.

    Which may have worked on some level when almost all the inhabitants were slaves and had no vote anyway, but is ludicrous now.

    It could of course be resolved by restricting DC to the Capitol and SC and merging the city back into Maryland. It doesn’t really need statehood from that point of view. But of course those two Senators would do an awful lot to correct the bias of the Senate towards the Republicans, which is why it is being proposed.
    The Republicans will run with it for all they are worth, if they lose a Senate seat in Texas this November.
    It needs to be framed as "votes for all Americans". I'd say "no Federal taxation without Federal representation", but Federal Taxes paid in USA Territories are a bit of a grey area.

    For me the other one they need is to cut Presidential Pardons off at the knees as part of tackling institutionalised corruption, but that is more tricky as we would probably be in Constitutional Amendment territory. Given the USA system, I'd say a supermajority or majority in both houses for each and every pardon.

    The other half of pardons is sorting out the horrible and wasteful prison system.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,693

    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    China won't be able to afford a single lock with that.
    Good morning, everyone.

    When it comes to demographics, China's in poor shape. But South Korea is looking at something absolutely horrendous.
    Not necessarily.
    You can't assume demographic trends continue in a straight line - and there are already tentative signs of an uptick in S Korean birth rates.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    It’s funny how the economic indicators for Labour haven’t been bad at all. Not brilliantly good either, but it wasn’t so long ago that some people on PB were predicting an IMF bailout.

    In fairness, always a chance they get revised, and my usual assumption that governments only have a minor impact on this stuff. But the NICs increases, minimum wage etc have not had the catastrophic impact predicted on here.

    UK unemployment rate sees surprise fall to 4.9% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd84pkkjgpo

    Due mainly to a rise in economic inactivity. Nothing to celebrate.

    https://x.com/julianhjessop/status/2046472240481394927?s=61

    Oh, and debt is still an issue. It hasn’t gone away. But it’s not just us. Fine is you can service it. However the recent bond auction was not great given the rate the govt was offering

    https://x.com/fahadzaf/status/2046475006868107570?s=61
    Employment rate, when Labour got in v now: 74.7 v 75
    Inactivity rate: 21.9 v 21
    Unemployment: 4.2 v 4.9

    Small moments but something interesting going on there.
    Why do both those figures add up to over 100%?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,930
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    China won't be able to afford a single lock with that.
    Good morning, everyone.

    When it comes to demographics, China's in poor shape. But South Korea is looking at something absolutely horrendous.
    As are Taiwan, Singapore Japan in terms of a greying population, but we shouldn't be complacent. Our population would collapse similarly, albeit more slowly, without immigration.

    I suspect those African projections are too high, fertility rates are dropping quickly there too, albeit still expansionary.

    Lots of countries have that sort of problem, but South Korea's is such that in a few generations they're going to be in a catastrophe if they don't fix the problem.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,553
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    Social Media never forgets...
    And people who want to be offended (pretty much all of us, it's emotionally very satisfying) will stay offended. Because taking offence can be exciting.

    Oh, and good news: unemployment figures down

    Bad news: measured to the end of February.
    Is it really good news if it’s mainly down to a rise in economic inactivity ?
    Depends how you think of it?

    The rise of the UBI class.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    The incident did make me laugh because there was a lot of pearl clutching by the Tories and the right wing media and then when they wheeled out the owner he looked like your archetypal BNP supporter .
    Yebbut - a whole raft of those who look like "your archetypal BNP supporter" are life long Labour. When you've canvassed for 50 years, you 'll even have found some unsavoury looking LibDems too...

    Tory voters on the other hand are universally lovely...not!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,239
    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    300 million 20-69 years olds. Presumably several hundred million oldsters for those 300 million to support.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,870

    Another 1,040 Russian troops and 83 artillery/MLRS not reporting for duty in Ukraine this morning.

    Context: in only 7 years did the annual number of dead and injured US combatants in the Vietnam war exceed this Russian daily total. The highest annual total - in 1968 - had a number of US dead and injured that would be the equivalent of just over a fortnight of these Russian numbers. The population of the USA was 200m in 1968. The Russian population today is estimated at c.145m.

    The Russian graph in the FT piece is pretty impressive too.

    The UN predicts Russias population to be between 74-112 million by the end of the century.

    I am a little suspicious of demographic projections more than a couple of decades into the future as so subject to change in either direction, but the Russian government itself has projected a population of 130 million in 2046.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,306

    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    China won't be able to afford a single lock with that.
    Good morning, everyone.

    When it comes to demographics, China's in poor shape. But South Korea is looking at something absolutely horrendous.
    How much of the world is going to come to the conclusion that the answer is immigration, just as supply is tightening, and will we get to the point where we bemoan the fact we can no longer attract immigrants in a couple of decades time because so many other countries are competing for them?

    I'm not sure the answer here, because over the long term demographics never quite go where you think they were going, but I remain in favour of a level of immigration that balances our current demographics and dependency ratio with the ability to provide housing and services, and this can be done consistently with our population reaching a plateau in the next decade and perhaps even dropping gently after that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,924
    It's GROUNDHOG day! We get to do it all again. Can we make a better job this time?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,146

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    Social Media never forgets...
    And people who want to be offended (pretty much all of us, it's emotionally very satisfying) will stay offended. Because taking offence can be exciting.

    Oh, and good news: unemployment figures down

    Bad news: measured to the end of February.
    Is it really good news if it’s mainly down to a rise in economic inactivity ?
    Depends how you think of it?

    The rise of the UBI class.
    Apparently a rise in economic inactive is also behind Trump's employment boom.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,870

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    China won't be able to afford a single lock with that.
    Good morning, everyone.

    When it comes to demographics, China's in poor shape. But South Korea is looking at something absolutely horrendous.
    As are Taiwan, Singapore Japan in terms of a greying population, but we shouldn't be complacent. Our population would collapse similarly, albeit more slowly, without immigration.

    I suspect those African projections are too high, fertility rates are dropping quickly there too, albeit still expansionary.

    Lots of countries have that sort of problem, but South Korea's is such that in a few generations they're going to be in a catastrophe if they don't fix the problem.
    The obvious fix for them is reunification with the North but what that government would look like...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,693
    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    China won't be able to afford a single lock with that.
    Good morning, everyone.

    When it comes to demographics, China's in poor shape. But South Korea is looking at something absolutely horrendous.
    How much of the world is going to come to the conclusion that the answer is immigration, just as supply is tightening, and will we get to the point where we bemoan the fact we can no longer attract immigrants in a couple of decades time because so many other countries are competing for them?

    I'm not sure the answer here, because over the long term demographics never quite go where you think they were going, but I remain in favour of a level of immigration that balances our current demographics and dependency ratio with the ability to provide housing and services, and this can be done consistently with our population reaching a plateau in the next decade and perhaps even dropping gently after that.
    Small, wealthy countries have a large advantage over very large countries, of course.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,325

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    The incident did make me laugh because there was a lot of pearl clutching by the Tories and the right wing media and then when they wheeled out the owner he looked like your archetypal BNP supporter .
    Yebbut - a whole raft of those who look like "your archetypal BNP supporter" are life long Labour. When you've canvassed for 50 years, you 'll even have found some unsavoury looking LibDems too...

    Tory voters on the other hand are universally lovely...not!
    If there’s one thing guaranteed to lower your house price it’s having your next door neighbour draping England flags .

    Unless it’s during football tournaments. Whether it’s right or wrong having flags outside of that suggests you’re one of the mob on Robinsons so called patriotic marches .

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,287
    edited April 21
    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    It’s funny how the economic indicators for Labour haven’t been bad at all. Not brilliantly good either, but it wasn’t so long ago that some people on PB were predicting an IMF bailout.

    In fairness, always a chance they get revised, and my usual assumption that governments only have a minor impact on this stuff. But the NICs increases, minimum wage etc have not had the catastrophic impact predicted on here.

    UK unemployment rate sees surprise fall to 4.9% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd84pkkjgpo

    Due mainly to a rise in economic inactivity. Nothing to celebrate.

    https://x.com/julianhjessop/status/2046472240481394927?s=61

    Oh, and debt is still an issue. It hasn’t gone away. But it’s not just us. Fine is you can service it. However the recent bond auction was not great given the rate the govt was offering

    https://x.com/fahadzaf/status/2046475006868107570?s=61
    Employment rate, when Labour got in v now: 74.7 v 75
    Inactivity rate: 21.9 v 21
    Unemployment: 4.2 v 4.9

    Small moments but something interesting going on there.
    Why do both those figures add up to over 100%?
    Different denominators. First two is entire working age population, unemployment is just labour force (excludes the inactive).

    I think you need to use them as a set because they each reveal and conceal different things. My reading of this is the proportion that are students, carers, early retired is falling, and that is not being fully absorbed by the labour market, driving unemployment increases.

    Overall the total proportion in work has increased slightly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,693
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    China won't be able to afford a single lock with that.
    Good morning, everyone.

    When it comes to demographics, China's in poor shape. But South Korea is looking at something absolutely horrendous.
    As are Taiwan, Singapore Japan in terms of a greying population, but we shouldn't be complacent. Our population would collapse similarly, albeit more slowly, without immigration.

    I suspect those African projections are too high, fertility rates are dropping quickly there too, albeit still expansionary.

    Lots of countries have that sort of problem, but South Korea's is such that in a few generations they're going to be in a catastrophe if they don't fix the problem.
    The obvious fix for them is reunification with the North but what that government would look like...
    That isn't an obvious fix.
    It might just compound their problems.
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    But she didn't *say* anything!
    The Paddington Hard Stare doesn't SAY anything either...
    Very good 😁
    But isn't this an example of a politician perhaps being a bit more subtle, presenting facts and leaving others to draw their own conclusions?
    But other people's conclusions are their own and to my mind what she did was not a stackable offence. She was just being provocative

    I think calling people "Tory scum" is a far more stackable offence. How rude. But apparently that's forgivable.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,195
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    It’s funny how the economic indicators for Labour haven’t been bad at all. Not brilliantly good either, but it wasn’t so long ago that some people on PB were predicting an IMF bailout.

    In fairness, always a chance they get revised, and my usual assumption that governments only have a minor impact on this stuff. But the NICs increases, minimum wage etc have not had the catastrophic impact predicted on here.

    UK unemployment rate sees surprise fall to 4.9% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd84pkkjgpo

    Due mainly to a rise in economic inactivity. Nothing to celebrate.

    https://x.com/julianhjessop/status/2046472240481394927?s=61

    Oh, and debt is still an issue. It hasn’t gone away. But it’s not just us. Fine is you can service it. However the recent bond auction was not great given the rate the govt was offering

    https://x.com/fahadzaf/status/2046475006868107570?s=61
    Employment rate, when Labour got in v now: 74.7 v 75
    Inactivity rate: 21.9 v 21
    Unemployment: 4.2 v 4.9

    Small moments but something interesting going on there.
    Economic inactivity still rose in the recent data and the decline in unemployment is largely due to it

    The job market seems awful on my LinkedIn. Loads of ‘open to work’ ribbons
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,870
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    The incident did make me laugh because there was a lot of pearl clutching by the Tories and the right wing media and then when they wheeled out the owner he looked like your archetypal BNP supporter .
    Yebbut - a whole raft of those who look like "your archetypal BNP supporter" are life long Labour. When you've canvassed for 50 years, you 'll even have found some unsavoury looking LibDems too...

    Tory voters on the other hand are universally lovely...not!
    If there’s one thing guaranteed to lower your house price it’s having your next door neighbour draping England flags .

    Unless it’s during football tournaments. Whether it’s right or wrong having flags outside of that suggests you’re one of the mob on Robinsons so called patriotic marches .

    I note the flags on lamposts that I drive by are becoming increasingly bedraggled and tatty, often now hanging by a single cable tie.

    Makes you proud to be British. Doesn't it?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420
    Foxy said:

    Another 1,040 Russian troops and 83 artillery/MLRS not reporting for duty in Ukraine this morning.

    Context: in only 7 years did the annual number of dead and injured US combatants in the Vietnam war exceed this Russian daily total. The highest annual total - in 1968 - had a number of US dead and injured that would be the equivalent of just over a fortnight of these Russian numbers. The population of the USA was 200m in 1968. The Russian population today is estimated at c.145m.

    The Russian graph in the FT piece is pretty impressive too.

    The UN predicts Russias population to be between 74-112 million by the end of the century.

    I am a little suspicious of demographic projections more than a couple of decades into the future as so subject to change in either direction, but the Russian government itself has projected a population of 130 million in 2046.
    Ukraine less of a land grab than a population grab..
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    The incident did make me laugh because there was a lot of pearl clutching by the Tories and the right wing media and then when they wheeled out the owner he looked like your archetypal BNP supporter .
    Yes, it remains an amusing episode, but one that highlights Labour's dilemma. In order to win power, they have to win over voters like that who are alien to their posher clientele.

    Tricky.
    I think they're irretrievably lost to Reform
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,195

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    theProle said:

    stjohn said:

    HYUFD said:

    stjohn said:

    Dopermean said:

    I would be staggered if Sir Keir hasn’t worked out or is in the progress of working out a deal with a successor right now.

    Is it the time to weigh in heavily on Ed Miliband?
    Rayner still in HMRC difficulties
    Streeting another Mandelson acolyte
    Burnham ineligible
    Mahmood too authoritarian

    Leaves Cooper vs Miliband
    Or as Old King Cole suggested, maybe it could be Emily Thornberry? If Starmer is forced out before the ‘young cardinals’ are ready or able to replace him, it may be we that they vote for an ‘old Pope’, in the hope that their turn comes around soon.

    I’ve had £9 on Emily Thornberry to be next PM at average odds nearly 600.
    Thornberry? You may as well hand Farage the keys to No 10 on a plate
    Can you develop that point.
    She's immensely dislikable, has a history of being very snobbish about Labour's traditional WWC base, and has been averagely useless at everything she's ever done.

    She's like all the worst attributes of the "NU10K" packaged up into one particularly unattractive package.

    If she is in contention, we've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we're through the ground beneath and Australia is hoving into view. She actually make that prize pratt Burnham look good by comparison, and he's a deeply unimpressive sack of stupidity.
    When has she been snobbish about the WWC?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768

    Ed Miliband has said a Labour MP who tweeted a picture of a house with three England flags and a white van parked outside was "disrespectful".
    Emily Thornberry quit Labour's shadow cabinet and subsequently apologised over the picture, which was branded "snobby" by the family living there.
    The Labour leader said he was "furious" about the tweet, external, which gave a "misleading impression".


    She posted a picture with no commentary

    All the inferences were drawn by the people who viewed it. It says more about them than it does about Emily Thornberry

    The only comment I recall Emily Thornberry made, after the criticisms of her post were made, was that she thought a house draped in flags so you couldn't see out of the windows was "extraordinary".

    It seems others considered that she was guilty of a thought crime.

    This was over a decade ago.

    Is this really the only evidence of her snobbery? Why does it persist?
    Social Media never forgets...
    And people who want to be offended (pretty much all of us, it's emotionally very satisfying) will stay offended. Because taking offence can be exciting.

    Oh, and good news: unemployment figures down

    Bad news: measured to the end of February.
    Is it really good news if it’s mainly down to a rise in economic inactivity ?
    Depends how you think of it?

    The rise of the UBI class.
    Or early retirees like me.

    Getting rid of the bed blockers frees up opportunities for the young
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230

    Morning all
    YouGov sticks it in reverse and floors it

    🚨 Westminster Voting Intention:

    ➡️ REF: 27% (+3)
    🌳 CON: 17% (-2)
    🟢 GRN: 17% (-1)
    🌹 LAB: 16% (-1)
    🔶️ LDEM: 14% (+1)

    From @YouGov
    Changes with 13th April

    Does that make YouGov the best pollster for Reform at the moment?
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,195
    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    China won't be able to afford a single lock with that.
    Good morning, everyone.

    When it comes to demographics, China's in poor shape. But South Korea is looking at something absolutely horrendous.
    How much of the world is going to come to the conclusion that the answer is immigration, just as supply is tightening, and will we get to the point where we bemoan the fact we can no longer attract immigrants in a couple of decades time because so many other countries are competing for them?

    I'm not sure the answer here, because over the long term demographics never quite go where you think they were going, but I remain in favour of a level of immigration that balances our current demographics and dependency ratio with the ability to provide housing and services, and this can be done consistently with our population reaching a plateau in the next decade and perhaps even dropping gently after that.
    Skilled migration rather than chain smoking deliveroo drivers. Absolutely
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,239
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Quite astonishing demographic projections here:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbef9296-2e69-4185-b7f1-f0c8fa01030c?shareType=nongift

    China down to 300 million people by the end of the century. Much of the rest of Developed Asia too

    China won't be able to afford a single lock with that.
    Good morning, everyone.

    When it comes to demographics, China's in poor shape. But South Korea is looking at something absolutely horrendous.
    As are Taiwan, Singapore Japan in terms of a greying population, but we shouldn't be complacent. Our population would collapse similarly, albeit more slowly, without immigration.

    I suspect those African projections are too high, fertility rates are dropping quickly there too, albeit still expansionary.

    Fertility rates almost everywhere have fallen faster than projected over the last few decades.

    The country that stood out to me was Yemen. I had no idea there were so many people in that exceptionally poor country.
  • CJtheOptimistCJtheOptimist Posts: 338

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    The incident did make me laugh because there was a lot of pearl clutching by the Tories and the right wing media and then when they wheeled out the owner he looked like your archetypal BNP supporter .
    Yes, it remains an amusing episode, but one that highlights Labour's dilemma. In order to win power, they have to win over voters like that who are alien to their posher clientele.

    Tricky.
    I think they're irretrievably lost to Reform
    They should be focusing on the centrists, those boring people who believe in civility and common sense.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,193
    edited April 21
    Good morning

    Ed Miliband not helping ? [Sky]
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,195

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    nico67 said:

    Emily Thornberry was basically accused of snobbery and stereotyping in flag gate .

    As it turned out the owner of the house did fit the stereotype !

    Yes, it was a fair enough description but not the kind of thing a politician can say in public!
    The incident did make me laugh because there was a lot of pearl clutching by the Tories and the right wing media and then when they wheeled out the owner he looked like your archetypal BNP supporter .
    Yes, it remains an amusing episode, but one that highlights Labour's dilemma. In order to win power, they have to win over voters like that who are alien to their posher clientele.

    Tricky.
    I think they're irretrievably lost to Reform
    Of course they’re not. The labour movement just needs to stop looking down its nose at them and deliver for their communities
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,287

    Good morning

    Ed Miliband not helping ? [Sky]

    Just saw that clip and either very clumsy or things are afoot.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    edited April 21
    isam said:

    Morning all
    YouGov sticks it in reverse and floors it

    🚨 Westminster Voting Intention:

    ➡️ REF: 27% (+3)
    🌳 CON: 17% (-2)
    🟢 GRN: 17% (-1)
    🌹 LAB: 16% (-1)
    🔶️ LDEM: 14% (+1)

    From @YouGov
    Changes with 13th April

    Does that make YouGov the best pollster for Reform at the moment?
    They had a 28 with JLP last week and the last Survation was 29 (but about 5 weeks ago)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,599

    NEW THREAD

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,239
    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    It’s funny how the economic indicators for Labour haven’t been bad at all. Not brilliantly good either, but it wasn’t so long ago that some people on PB were predicting an IMF bailout.

    In fairness, always a chance they get revised, and my usual assumption that governments only have a minor impact on this stuff. But the NICs increases, minimum wage etc have not had the catastrophic impact predicted on here.

    UK unemployment rate sees surprise fall to 4.9% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd84pkkjgpo

    Due mainly to a rise in economic inactivity. Nothing to celebrate.

    https://x.com/julianhjessop/status/2046472240481394927?s=61

    Oh, and debt is still an issue. It hasn’t gone away. But it’s not just us. Fine is you can service it. However the recent bond auction was not great given the rate the govt was offering

    https://x.com/fahadzaf/status/2046475006868107570?s=61
    Employment rate, when Labour got in v now: 74.7 v 75
    Inactivity rate: 21.9 v 21
    Unemployment: 4.2 v 4.9

    Small moments but something interesting going on there.
    Why do both those figures add up to over 100%?
    The unemployment rate is calculated as a percentage of the economically active population, so it's off a different base than the other two.
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