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Knives out. Will Labour MPs remove Sir Keir Starmer? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,175
edited April 15 in General
Knives out. Will Labour MPs remove Sir Keir Starmer? – politicalbetting.com

I’d like you picture a group of Conservative MPs dealing with a struggling leader. And now a group of Labour MPs in the same situation.  Did you come up with something like this?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,695
    No
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,865
    Keir's not going anywhere in the short to medium term, may well be there to lead Labour to likely victory GE 2028
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    QTWTAIN.

    The locals won’t be as bad as they think, they were at a low when most of these seats were last contested, and as we’ve seen in recent history it’s almost impossible to remove a Labour leader against his will.

    Who would 80 MPs stand behind as a challenger? The obvious would have been Burnham, but he’s not an MP.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,622
    Excellent piece, I really enjoyed it.

    Starmer is politically inept (and, worse,doesn't seem to be learning to be any better on the job) but (a) I don't think he wants to go anywhere, and rivals are the one thing he's ruthless about and (b) there's no alternative Labour PM who looks credible and who can deliver results in the remaining time available.

    My working assumption is Starmer stays both this year and next year.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,873

    Starmer goes when there's a replacement available who isn't an obvious downgrade.

    That is to say, not yet.

    May is going to be a slaughter, with Labour getting mullered in Wales, Scotland, Red Wall and Birmingham by 4 different parties.

    After that, anyone will look like an upgrade to Labour MPs.
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    Reform drops to 25% in this weeks voting intention their lowest since April 2025. They lead the Tories by 3 & Labour by 4

    ➡️ REF UK 25% (-5)
    🌳 CON 22% (+3)
    🌹 LAB 21% (+1)
    🌍 GREEN 13% (+1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    ❓OTH 3% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 2% (nc)

    N = 2,011 | 10-13/4 | Change w/ 8/4




    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2044303698600350089?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,865
    isam said:

    Reform drops to 25% in this weeks voting intention their lowest since April 2025. They lead the Tories by 3 & Labour by 4

    ➡️ REF UK 25% (-5)
    🌳 CON 22% (+3)
    🌹 LAB 21% (+1)
    🌍 GREEN 13% (+1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    ❓OTH 3% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 2% (nc)

    N = 2,011 | 10-13/4 | Change w/ 8/4




    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2044303698600350089?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I think Reform are heading for quite a lot of disappointment in local elections and Scotland/Wales elections 2026
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,601
    On topic, this should help Starmer, and also turn the UK into a republic sooner than expected.

    "Over five minutes [Donald Trump] swung from gushing praise for the King to scathing criticism for the prime minister."

    Sky's @Stone_SkyNews provides analysis of his call with Donald Trump

    🔗 Read more


    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2044310684733682069
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,806

    On topic, this should help Starmer, and also turn the UK into a republic sooner than expected.

    "Over five minutes [Donald Trump] swung from gushing praise for the King to scathing criticism for the prime minister."

    Sky's @Stone_SkyNews provides analysis of his call with Donald Trump

    🔗 Read more


    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2044310684733682069

    It's been a while since Trump lavished praise on Farage. Go on Don, you know you want to.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,622
    Foxy said:

    Starmer goes when there's a replacement available who isn't an obvious downgrade.

    That is to say, not yet.

    May is going to be a slaughter, with Labour getting mullered in Wales, Scotland, Red Wall and Birmingham by 4 different parties.

    After that, anyone will look like an upgrade to Labour MPs.
    I don't think that follows.

    This is all priced in and everyone expects it.

    I expect a damp squib.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,622
    I think I may need to join CAMRA.

    I'm seeing far too many people ordering and drinking fizzy cat's piss in pubs these days.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,028
    The biggest challenge facing the UK over the next few years starts with a T and ends with a Rump.

    Starmer has proven himself relatively adept at managing the chaos that is the US President in the interests of the UK. It's a balancing act, but one he's done well. He also has personal rapport with Trump in a way I can't imagine Burnham or Raynor managing. Yes he still gets insults thrown his way, but that's par for the course.

    For this reason, I'd rather he stays the course and is removed in 2028 in time for the general election in 2029. Have the new leader set their stall for the next term of they are able to get a new leader boost.

    Another reason to pause is we are about to go through another bout of unpopular price rises and potential broader disruption. Does the new leader really want to start in a period where all governments will become less popular?
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363

    On topic, this should help Starmer, and also turn the UK into a republic sooner than expected.

    "Over five minutes [Donald Trump] swung from gushing praise for the King to scathing criticism for the prime minister."

    Sky's @Stone_SkyNews provides analysis of his call with Donald Trump

    🔗 Read more


    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2044310684733682069

    It's been a while since Trump lavished praise on Farage. Go on Don, you know you want to.
    It’s more effective when JD does it.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,272
    edited April 15
    Thanks for the header @Garethofthevale and you've encapsulated the whole Labour issue. It's difficult to get rid of a Labour leader no matter how poorly they perform. However there seems to be a change in Starmer in that he's noticed he has a large majority which can be used to push through left leaning or far left leaning policies. On the books so far

    * Renters' Right Act 2025 (bash the Landlords)
    * Employment Rights Act 2025 (bash the Employers)
    * Two Child Limit on UC (Make Love not War)
    * Hug a European (changes to the relations with the EU)
    * Replacing Trump as the hub-and-spoke on Ukraine and Hormuz.


    This pushing himself into places that Trump doesn't want to go while taking abuse from Trump is quite a feat. Shows he has much thicker skin than the presumed. He's not for turning to coin a phrase.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,144
    Having read quite a few posts from GotV I can't think of a poster I would less like to read if I wanted a thoughtful opinion on a viable future for the centre Left........

    However leopards can change their spots so...........
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,695
    It's an interesting header, but I don't think the Biden comparison stands up, either as a comparison, or as a 'what if ?' scenario.

    Biden was (and remains, even after his loss) extremely popular with a significant portion of the Democratic Party and its supporters. Despite never having a reliable majority in Congress, he had an impressive legislative record. As his recent public appearances demonstrate, reports of his 'dementia', and complete incapacity were overstated.

    Once he decided to run again, a serious attempt to primary him would have risked massive division in the party. He would never have been challenged by his VP, and if Harris too was passed over fir the nomination, a large part of the Democratic base would very likely have been alienated.

    It's certainly possible (though by no means certain) that the Democrats could have done better if they had gone through a real primary process - but i think only if Biden himself had chosen much earlier not to run again.

    I suspect the same might be true of Starmer.
    The best chance for Labour is if they actually deliver on policy. A leader contest is likely to be a drawn out distraction which will disrupt their chances of doing so.
    A new figurehead might well help at, but the best chance for that would be Starmer stepping down.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,880
    Foxy said:

    Starmer goes when there's a replacement available who isn't an obvious downgrade.

    That is to say, not yet.

    May is going to be a slaughter, with Labour getting mullered in Wales, Scotland, Red Wall and Birmingham by 4 different parties.

    After that, anyone will look like an upgrade to Labour MPs.
    OK then- who?

    Rayner is still sin binned, Burnham is still trapped in Manchester. And whilst they're better at politics, I suspect they'd be worse at government. Though that might be my inner old Tory wet speaking.

    The traditional shortlist is still Reeves, Cooper, Mahmood, Lammy.

    Starmer got the job faute de mieux. Mieux are still pretty fauteing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,873
    Battlebus said:

    Thanks for the header @Garethofthevale and you've encapsulated the whole Labour issue. It's difficult to get rid of a Labour leader no matter how poorly they perform. However there seems to be a change in Starmer in that he's noticed he has a large majority which can be used to push through left leaning or far left leaning policies. On the books so far

    * Renters' Right Act 2025 (bash the Landlords)
    * Employment Rights Act 2025 (bash the Employers)
    * Two Child Limit on UC (Make Love not War)
    * Hug a European (changes to the relations with the EU)
    * Replacing Trump as the hub-and-spoke on Ukraine and Hormuz.


    This pushing himself into places that Trump doesn't want to go while taking abuse from Trump is quite a feat. Shows he has much thicker skin than the presumed. He's not for turning to coin a phrase.

    I think those things have happened despite Starmer rather than because of him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,601

    Foxy said:

    Starmer goes when there's a replacement available who isn't an obvious downgrade.

    That is to say, not yet.

    May is going to be a slaughter, with Labour getting mullered in Wales, Scotland, Red Wall and Birmingham by 4 different parties.

    After that, anyone will look like an upgrade to Labour MPs.
    OK then- who?

    Rayner is still sin binned, Burnham is still trapped in Manchester. And whilst they're better at politics, I suspect they'd be worse at government. Though that might be my inner old Tory wet speaking.

    The traditional shortlist is still Reeves, Cooper, Mahmood, Lammy.

    Starmer got the job faute de mieux. Mieux are still pretty fauteing.
    Ed Miliband!

    This suggestion has nothing to do with the fact I tipped Ed Miliband at 100/1 to succeed Starmer.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,989

    Foxy said:

    Starmer goes when there's a replacement available who isn't an obvious downgrade.

    That is to say, not yet.

    May is going to be a slaughter, with Labour getting mullered in Wales, Scotland, Red Wall and Birmingham by 4 different parties.

    After that, anyone will look like an upgrade to Labour MPs.
    OK then- who?

    Rayner is still sin binned, Burnham is still trapped in Manchester. And whilst they're better at politics, I suspect they'd be worse at government. Though that might be my inner old Tory wet speaking.

    The traditional shortlist is still Reeves, Cooper, Mahmood, Lammy.

    Starmer got the job faute de mieux. Mieux are still pretty fauteing.
    Did he win faute de mieux? There was a lot of excitement about Starmer through to the election. He was seen as an antidote to Johnson/May, someone with a competent record outside government, someone acceptable to both wings of the party.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,028

    I think I may need to join CAMRA.

    I'm seeing far too many people ordering and drinking fizzy cat's piss in pubs these days.

    Cask ale never really successfully sold itself to millennials and younger. Keg ales, driven by formerly craft beer, or Guinness remain the beer of choice for those who move away from lager.

    There are of course exceptions but there's a reason traditional ales have been declining for years. I suspect you'll be one of the younger CAMRA members!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,197
    edited April 15
    Good morning

    I really do not know what labour will do about Starmer

    I assume he would not survive May if there was an obvious successor, but equally if May is as bad as expected why would labour hang onto him as any recovery in his and labour's prospects would seem highly unlikely

    Nobody is indispensible and if Starmer had a health issue or something else, labour would have to find a successor

    It is a very real problem

    And on today's more in 'common poll' good to see the reduction in reform's lead and Kemi's modest progress
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,958
    Nigelb said:

    It's an interesting header, but I don't think the Biden comparison stands up, either as a comparison, or as a 'what if ?' scenario.

    Biden was (and remains, even after his loss) extremely popular with a significant portion of the Democratic Party and its supporters. Despite never having a reliable majority in Congress, he had an impressive legislative record. As his recent public appearances demonstrate, reports of his 'dementia', and complete incapacity were overstated.

    Once he decided to run again, a serious attempt to primary him would have risked massive division in the party. He would never have been challenged by his VP, and if Harris too was passed over fir the nomination, a large part of the Democratic base would very likely have been alienated.

    It's certainly possible (though by no means certain) that the Democrats could have done better if they had gone through a real primary process - but i think only if Biden himself had chosen much earlier not to run again.

    I suspect the same might be true of Starmer.
    The best chance for Labour is if they actually deliver on policy. A leader contest is likely to be a drawn out distraction which will disrupt their chances of doing so.
    A new figurehead might well help at, but the best chance for that would be Starmer stepping down.

    It seems obvious to me that Starmer should step down, but closer to the election, having taken on the blame for more of the inevitable forthcoming economic bad news and lowering the expectations on whoever is the next leader. What is the point of changing leader now, just as we are about to enter a period of higher inflation and lower cost of living again?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,880

    Foxy said:

    Starmer goes when there's a replacement available who isn't an obvious downgrade.

    That is to say, not yet.

    May is going to be a slaughter, with Labour getting mullered in Wales, Scotland, Red Wall and Birmingham by 4 different parties.

    After that, anyone will look like an upgrade to Labour MPs.
    OK then- who?

    Rayner is still sin binned, Burnham is still trapped in Manchester. And whilst they're better at politics, I suspect they'd be worse at government. Though that might be my inner old Tory wet speaking.

    The traditional shortlist is still Reeves, Cooper, Mahmood, Lammy.

    Starmer got the job faute de mieux. Mieux are still pretty fauteing.
    Ed Miliband!

    This suggestion has nothing to do with the fact I tipped Ed Miliband at 100/1 to succeed Starmer.
    Hmm. Not convinced, but I can see two potential upsides.

    Fist is that Dave's tweet from 2015 really was cursed, añd the only way to break the curse is to experience chaos with Ed Miliband.

    The other is that the flames of fury from the Mail etc would mean that there wasn't an energy crisis.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,873

    Foxy said:

    Starmer goes when there's a replacement available who isn't an obvious downgrade.

    That is to say, not yet.

    May is going to be a slaughter, with Labour getting mullered in Wales, Scotland, Red Wall and Birmingham by 4 different parties.

    After that, anyone will look like an upgrade to Labour MPs.
    OK then- who?

    Rayner is still sin binned, Burnham is still trapped in Manchester. And whilst they're better at politics, I suspect they'd be worse at government. Though that might be my inner old Tory wet speaking.

    The traditional shortlist is still Reeves, Cooper, Mahmood, Lammy.

    Starmer got the job faute de mieux. Mieux are still pretty fauteing.
    I have Rayner as PM at New Year in the PB predictions contest and stand by that.

    I have just had a quick look at Betfair and she is 3.8 for next PM, next nearest is Farage on 10, with Badenoch on 23.

    So it isn't just me thinking this. The question is one of when rather than whether Starmer goes. The 2027 local elections are going to be no better. There never is going to be the perfect time for a challenge.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,933
    Starmer is a terrible politician. In terms of politics or enthusing an audience the likes of Rayner or the Mayor of greater Manchester has him beaten all ends up. He is a terrible and ineffective decision maker. Here the likes of Streeting and Mahmood look far better. He is poor at judging character, need I mention Mandelson? He is ruthless at blocking rivals (Burnham) but not in dealing with inept incompetents such as his Chancellor.

    And yet, I agree with those who point out his greatest strength is that there is no obvious successor in the way that, say, Brown was to Blair. I am not sure what it will take for enough MPs to panic but I doubt it will be a poor set of results in the local elections.

    This country desperately needs some competent leadership. I wonder if Carney would be interested in a job share.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,865

    Good morning

    I really do not know what labour will do about Starmer

    I assume he would not survive May if there was an obvious successor, but equally if May is as bad as expected why would labour hang onto him as any recovery in his and labour's prospects would seem highly unlikely

    Nobody is indispensible and if Starmer had a health issue or something else, labour would have to find a successor

    It is a very real problem

    And on today's more in 'common poll' good to see the reduction in reform's lead and Kemi's modest progress

    I expect it will be PC 1, Labour 2 and Reform 3 in Wales. Con top 6!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,422
    isam said:

    Reform drops to 25% in this weeks voting intention their lowest since April 2025. They lead the Tories by 3 & Labour by 4

    ➡️ REF UK 25% (-5)
    🌳 CON 22% (+3)
    🌹 LAB 21% (+1)
    🌍 GREEN 13% (+1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    ❓OTH 3% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 2% (nc)

    N = 2,011 | 10-13/4 | Change w/ 8/4




    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2044303698600350089?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    On that drop, that is a huge drop in the number of seats Reform might have expected to ain next month.

    Kemi within 3 must be a real worry for Farage. Once she leads him, his USP of "changing the duopoly of power" is in the bin. Qt least on the right.

    Go Kemi!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,958

    isam said:

    Reform drops to 25% in this weeks voting intention their lowest since April 2025. They lead the Tories by 3 & Labour by 4

    ➡️ REF UK 25% (-5)
    🌳 CON 22% (+3)
    🌹 LAB 21% (+1)
    🌍 GREEN 13% (+1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    ❓OTH 3% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 2% (nc)

    N = 2,011 | 10-13/4 | Change w/ 8/4




    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2044303698600350089?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    On that drop, that is a huge drop in the number of seats Reform might have expected to ain next month.

    Kemi within 3 must be a real worry for Farage. Once she leads him, his USP of "changing the duopoly of power" is in the bin. Qt least on the right.

    Go Kemi!
    You'll be pleased to hear that the Conservatives are completely underestimated in the next GE betting.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,873

    I think I may need to join CAMRA.

    I'm seeing far too many people ordering and drinking fizzy cat's piss in pubs these days.

    The main reason that lager in pubs is so pissy is that it is served too warm and in pints. Serve it properly cold and at 330ml it is a fine beverage.

    I like a real ale but in too many pubs it isn't kept properly or turned over quickly enough.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,880
    DavidL said:

    Starmer is a terrible politician. In terms of politics or enthusing an audience the likes of Rayner or the Mayor of greater Manchester has him beaten all ends up. He is a terrible and ineffective decision maker. Here the likes of Streeting and Mahmood look far better. He is poor at judging character, need I mention Mandelson? He is ruthless at blocking rivals (Burnham) but not in dealing with inept incompetents such as his Chancellor.

    And yet, I agree with those who point out his greatest strength is that there is no obvious successor in the way that, say, Brown was to Blair. I am not sure what it will take for enough MPs to panic but I doubt it will be a poor set of results in the local elections.

    This country desperately needs some competent leadership. I wonder if Carney would be interested in a job share.

    I reckon the place to look is the lower ranks of Cabinet- the equivalent of John Major in spring 1989. People who knew, knew, but most people hadn't heard of him. I'm not a sufficient expert on Labour to say who that someone is, but it's in all our interests that they exist.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    edited April 15
    Morning all,
    Freshwater Strategy's monthly poll is out in City AM and shows a large Reform drop like MiC, this time to Labour mainly.
    Reform are currently under 30 with every pollster that has reported in 2026 (Deltapoll had them at 30 in December and havent reported since). So at least for now the 'decline' narrative for Reform seems accurate. Could all change if they have a good set of LEs of course.

    Ref 26 (-4)
    Lab 22 (+4)
    Con 19 (+1)
    Grn 15 (=)
    LD 13 (=)

    10-12 April

    Caveat - Freshwaters numbers tend to fluctuate quite a bit
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    I think I may need to join CAMRA.

    I'm seeing far too many people ordering and drinking fizzy cat's piss in pubs these days.

    One thing I miss about living somewhere where we only ever get the occasional ales, and most pints are too cold and too fizzy.
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,197

    Good morning

    I really do not know what labour will do about Starmer

    I assume he would not survive May if there was an obvious successor, but equally if May is as bad as expected why would labour hang onto him as any recovery in his and labour's prospects would seem highly unlikely

    Nobody is indispensible and if Starmer had a health issue or something else, labour would have to find a successor

    It is a very real problem

    And on today's more in 'common poll' good to see the reduction in reform's lead and Kemi's modest progress

    I expect it will be PC 1, Labour 2 and Reform 3 in Wales. Con top 6!
    I am not convinced about labour in Wales, not least because they have been in office with the Welsh First Minister for all the time since devolution [1999] and this election is likely to be anyone but labour
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,448
    Thanks, @GarethoftheVale2 . But who is going to be better than SKS? Not obvious to me, sadly. Maybe best to wait until the next election is closer, then offer a fresh face. One who has, hopefully, some sort of a vision and is able to sell it to us.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,546
    edited April 15
    A surprisingly good video from yesterday - Ward Carroll interviewing Justin Bronk about the problems of Trump's blockade.

    More or less a single question from Carroll, followed by a gradual and comprehensive demolition of Trump's entire war leadership and (lack of) strategy from Bronk despite a professional performance from the US military of their instructions. And some better insight into the things that US allies have actually been doing.

    "How Epic Fury Won the War but Lost the Peace"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onSiPm9ujOE
  • Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,422

    Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,865

    Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    As Meatloaf said once 'Two out of three ain't bad'! Labour will get at least 30% at the GE, they will be the biggest party but Andy Burnham won't be PM.
  • Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
    I think either is equally likely to be honest.

    Can totally see Tories breaking the 30s next year.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,819
    @GarethoftheVale2

    Great header thanks, but isn't it the 2024 Democrat Primary?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,880
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So they should be deported even if found not guilty? An interesting approach to the law!

    I note AR had been found in possession of a knife by the school 10 times, was known to Prevent, to social workers, CAMHS and Police. If none of these were willing to act, what could the parents be realistically expected to do?
    Willing to act, or able to act? The triaging in social work and CAMHS is brutal.
  • Apart from Iran which was a major misstep Badenoch has made good calls as LOTO.

    No reason why the Tories won’t be the beneficiaries as we get closer to an election. They are in my view very underpriced.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,865

    Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
    I think it will be something like Lab 34 Con 31. And in seats similar to 2005. Obviously I hope Con win but I don't think that's happening.

    Reform to fade away
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726

    I think I may need to join CAMRA.

    I'm seeing far too many people ordering and drinking fizzy cat's piss in pubs these days.

    You should do it anyway. They’re having money troubles and upping headcount can only help fix that.
  • https://x.com/luketryl/status/2044303705315459535

    At the same time all the big five leader approvals are down. Farage hits his lowest since the General Election on -20, though still well above Starmer on -43. Badenoch is -13, Davey -14 and Polanski at a personal low of -19.

    Down Polanski and Farage go. Badenoch holding steady, Tories have to be in a good position.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,030
    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Deport on what basis? Should the government of the day just decide who gets deported? Even if they are British citizens?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,546
    Thank-you for the header, Gareth.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,819
    isam said:

    Reform drops to 25% in this weeks voting intention their lowest since April 2025. They lead the Tories by 3 & Labour by 4

    ➡️ REF UK 25% (-5)
    🌳 CON 22% (+3)
    🌹 LAB 21% (+1)
    🌍 GREEN 13% (+1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    ❓OTH 3% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 2% (nc)

    N = 2,011 | 10-13/4 | Change w/ 8/4




    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2044303698600350089?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sleazy, broken Reform on the slide!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    edited April 15

    Apart from Iran which was a major misstep Badenoch has made good calls as LOTO.

    No reason why the Tories won’t be the beneficiaries as we get closer to an election. They are in my view very underpriced.

    For both Lab and Con trying to get hold of the narrative after May is vital - stopping the 'Reform bandwagon'. They both need a blow out or two somewhere against expectations to focus on. I dont think either can afford another year of drift whilst Nigel and Co do another victory tour
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,030
    edited April 15

    Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
    I think it will be something like Lab 34 Con 31. And in seats similar to 2005. Obviously I hope Con win but I don't think that's happening.

    Reform to fade away
    I think that's very likely. Anyone remember the Alliance polling 51% in 1981? How large a majority did they win two years later?
  • Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
    I think it will be something like Lab 34 Con 31. And in seats similar to 2005. Obviously I hope Con win but I don't think that's happening.

    Reform to fade away
    I think that's very likely. Anyone remember the Alliance polling 51% in 1981? How large a majority did they win two years later?
    I’m too young but were the Alliance talked about a lot at the time and looked certain to win?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,622
    Ratters said:

    I think I may need to join CAMRA.

    I'm seeing far too many people ordering and drinking fizzy cat's piss in pubs these days.

    Cask ale never really successfully sold itself to millennials and younger. Keg ales, driven by formerly craft beer, or Guinness remain the beer of choice for those who move away from lager.

    There are of course exceptions but there's a reason traditional ales have been declining for years. I suspect you'll be one of the younger CAMRA members!
    Agreed. The "old man's" drink thing keeps coming up but that's nothing the right branding/marketing and endorsements can't fix.

    Gin was seen as an old lady's drink 15 years ago.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,622
    Foxy said:

    I think I may need to join CAMRA.

    I'm seeing far too many people ordering and drinking fizzy cat's piss in pubs these days.

    The main reason that lager in pubs is so pissy is that it is served too warm and in pints. Serve it properly cold and at 330ml it is a fine beverage.

    I like a real ale but in too many pubs it isn't kept properly or turned over quickly enough.
    Which is a demand problem, of course.

    It's a much deeper,richer and more interesting drink.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,519
    In snouts in the trough news:

    The costs of managing the insolvency of the main trading arm of Greensill are expected to reach more than £90 million this year.

    Administrators of Greensill Capital (UK), or GCUK, which collapsed more than five years ago, said they are still dealing with the complicated fallout from its failure, including a series of regulatory and legal issues and the fact that more than $587 million “remains outstanding” from Sanjeev Gupta’s GFG Alliance.

    Insolvency practitioners from Grant Thornton disclosed in filings that time costs and expenses on the company have reached £82.6 million, making it one of the most expensive UK corporate collapses of recent years. Administrators said they anticipate a further £11.6 million in time costs and expenses to deal with “remaining matters” this year.

    A further £1.2 million has been incurred on Greensill Capital Management, also in administration. Grant Thornton is charging an average of £779 an hour for the insolvency work.


    https://www.thetimes.com/business/companies-markets/article/greensill-capital-collapse-insolvency-bill-hits-83m-3kbmvhf38
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,200

    Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
    I think it will be something like Lab 34 Con 31. And in seats similar to 2005. Obviously I hope Con win but I don't think that's happening.

    Reform to fade away
    I think that's very likely. Anyone remember the Alliance polling 51% in 1981? How large a majority did they win two years later?
    What’s going to change so that they, and for that matter the Greens, fade away.

    In the eighties you had the Falklands.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,869
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So they should be deported even if found not guilty? An interesting approach to the law!

    I note AR had been found in possession of a knife by the school 10 times, was known to Prevent, to social workers, CAMHS and Police. If none of these were willing to act, what could the parents be realistically expected to do?
    Right, so why did the inquiry chair bring the parents into it?

    My hunch is that the authorities didn't have sight of what he was doing at home and, had they known, he could have been locked up for a long time on terrorism charges.

    But... the powers that be don't like the t word being mentioned in relation to Southport.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,272

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So she’s not in favour of the rule of law then.

    As with the Shamima Begum case, there’s a lot of people who will be worried about stuff like this.
    You are being polite. She benefited from the immigration laws at the time, and now calls out others for wanting the same for their family.

    If she only concentrated on doing the work rather than the soundbites, she might become a so-so politician but she's too lazy for that.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,326
    I wonder what’s behind this fall in Reforms polling ?

    It’s not as if the media have been hammering him on his Trump sycophancy or the numerous dodgy Reform candidates .

  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,272

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So they should be deported even if found not guilty? An interesting approach to the law!

    I note AR had been found in possession of a knife by the school 10 times, was known to Prevent, to social workers, CAMHS and Police. If none of these were willing to act, what could the parents be realistically expected to do?
    Willing to act, or able to act? The triaging in social work and CAMHS is brutal.
    Surely the last government had a large enough majority to sort these issues. There are people who claim to have the solution that were actually in that government.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,873
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So they should be deported even if found not guilty? An interesting approach to the law!

    I note AR had been found in possession of a knife by the school 10 times, was known to Prevent, to social workers, CAMHS and Police. If none of these were willing to act, what could the parents be realistically expected to do?
    Right, so why did the inquiry chair bring the parents into it?

    My hunch is that the authorities didn't have sight of what he was doing at home and, had they known, he could have been locked up for a long time on terrorism charges.

    But... the powers that be don't like the t word being mentioned in relation to Southport.
    They knew he had been at school with a knife 10 times!

    Did they not look into his bedroom and computer? Completely incompetent by Prevent, police and social workers if they did not.

    I am sure that the parents were at their wits end. One week prior to the killings the father prevented AR from taking a taxi.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    edited April 15

    Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
    I think it will be something like Lab 34 Con 31. And in seats similar to 2005. Obviously I hope Con win but I don't think that's happening.

    Reform to fade away
    I think that's very likely. Anyone remember the Alliance polling 51% in 1981? How large a majority did they win two years later?
    I’m too young but were the Alliance talked about a lot at the time and looked certain to win?
    David Steele's famous line from his speech at the Lib conference in 1981 was 'go back to your constituencies and prepare for government'
    The by election wins in Glasgow and Crosby were pretty enormous.
    They were still making massive gains in votes in the by elections 82-83 in Birmingham, Peckham, Darlington, Mitcham and Bermondsey but only won Bermondsey which kinda summed up 1983 GE - massive vote gains, 23 seats

    Whether Reform, Greens etc suffer the same fate? Both Lab and Con are much less popular than the 1980s.....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,869
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So they should be deported even if found not guilty? An interesting approach to the law!

    I note AR had been found in possession of a knife by the school 10 times, was known to Prevent, to social workers, CAMHS and Police. If none of these were willing to act, what could the parents be realistically expected to do?
    Right, so why did the inquiry chair bring the parents into it?

    My hunch is that the authorities didn't have sight of what he was doing at home and, had they known, he could have been locked up for a long time on terrorism charges.

    But... the powers that be don't like the t word being mentioned in relation to Southport.
    They knew he had been at school with a knife 10 times!

    Did they not look into his bedroom and computer? Completely incompetent by Prevent, police and social workers if they did not.

    I am sure that the parents were at their wits end. One week prior to the killings the father prevented AR from taking a taxi.
    But there's cognitive dissonance around the whole situation. Southport was not a terrorist attack.

    And, as for him carrying a knife, I'm not sure why you're surprised that the authorities weren't bothered.
  • https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2044158774819107029

    Green leader Zack Polanski will call for policies to end the "affordability crisis" tomorrow

    - The introduction of a 10:1 pay ratio, whereby the highest-paid employee earns no more than ten times the lowest-paid

    - Free school meals for all primary and secondary pupils

    - Universal energy bill support for households and stronger rent controls

    - A customs union with the EU to cut business costs

    Not sure this is the right moves Zack
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,601

    Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
    I think it will be something like Lab 34 Con 31. And in seats similar to 2005. Obviously I hope Con win but I don't think that's happening.

    Reform to fade away
    I think that's very likely. Anyone remember the Alliance polling 51% in 1981? How large a majority did they win two years later?
    I’m too young but were the Alliance talked about a lot at the time and looked certain to win?
    David Steele's famous line from his speech at the Lib conference in 1981 was 'go back to your constituencies and prepare for government'
    The by election wins in Glasgow and Crosby were pretty enormous.
    They were still making massive gains in votes in the by elections 82-83 in Birmingham, Peckham, Darlington, Mitcham and Bermondsey but only won Bermondsey which kinda summed up 1983 GE - massive vote gains, 23 seats

    Whether Reform, Greens etc suffer the same fate? Both Lab and Con are much less popular than the 1980s.....
    They won Bermondsey on the back of a horrifically homophobic campaign.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,799

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2044158774819107029

    Green leader Zack Polanski will call for policies to end the "affordability crisis" tomorrow

    - The introduction of a 10:1 pay ratio, whereby the highest-paid employee earns no more than ten times the lowest-paid

    - Free school meals for all primary and secondary pupils

    - Universal energy bill support for households and stronger rent controls

    - A customs union with the EU to cut business costs

    Not sure this is the right moves Zack

    Isn't this what Labour should be doing? :)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,215

    Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
    I think it will be something like Lab 34 Con 31. And in seats similar to 2005. Obviously I hope Con win but I don't think that's happening.

    Reform to fade away
    I think that's very likely. Anyone remember the Alliance polling 51% in 1981? How large a majority did they win two years later?
    I've said this for a while. Anyone old enough to remember those times will see the likely/plausible parallel. Unpopular government (Thatcher's first years, the brutal approach to restricting the money supply to squeeze inflation), the opposition recently trashed (winter of discontent), new, fresh party with lots of 'names' from other parties surging in the polls...
    It melted away like a dropped ice cream on a hot pavement in july.

    Of course things are different now, but they have similarities. At heart the British public is not racist, most understand that things do need paying for at some point. There will always be the loons at the edges (right and left are as bad, in different ways). But the centre is where power lies.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,519
    Battlebus said:

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So she’s not in favour of the rule of law then.

    As with the Shamima Begum case, there’s a lot of people who will be worried about stuff like this.
    You are being polite. She benefited from the immigration laws at the time, and now calls out others for wanting the same for their family.

    If she only concentrated on doing the work rather than the soundbites, she might become a so-so politician but she's too lazy for that.
    Badenoch was born in Britain in 1980, a year when the UK had net emigration of 55k.

    Badenoch returned to Britain in 1996, a year when the UK had net immigration of 55k.

    The immigration laws of that time helped keep migration at controlled, planned for levels, something they haven't done for twenty years.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,865

    Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
    I think it will be something like Lab 34 Con 31. And in seats similar to 2005. Obviously I hope Con win but I don't think that's happening.

    Reform to fade away
    I think that's very likely. Anyone remember the Alliance polling 51% in 1981? How large a majority did they win two years later?
    It is just possible that Reform win 1 seat only at the GE. Lee Anderson in Ashfield.

    You heard it here first. DYOR!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,546
    edited April 15
    Photo of the Day, for @TSE .

    Frida Kahlo's Wooden Leg. Frida Kahlo was a Mexican artist from the 1st half of the 20C, who also holds the record for the most expensive artwork at auction by a woman.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frida_Kahlo#:~:text=a Mexican painter known for,nature and artifacts of Mexico.

    Via another blast from teh past - Manolo the Shoe Blogger, who was making a 6 figure income from blogging about fashionable shoes 20 years ago.

    Blog: https://shoeblogs.com/2015/05/13/frida-kahlos-wooden-leg/
    Interview: https://problogger.com/shoeblogs-six-figure-blogger/

    Manolo was a History / Politics Academic called HD Miller, and made enough money to leave academe:
    https://pjmedia.com/ed-driscoll/2015/05/02/legendary-shoe-blogger-reveals-secret-identity-n260081

    And the Conservatives are now the PUNservatives, until they are human again, and he stops.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    edited April 15
    nico67 said:

    I wonder what’s behind this fall in Reforms polling ?

    It’s not as if the media have been hammering him on his Trump sycophancy or the numerous dodgy Reform candidates .

    The lack of recent salience of immigration hasn't helped them as they dont have any other obvious USP (given they are now clearly having to share NOTA with the Greens).
    I honestly dont think the gameshow style giveaways have helped, but thats just a gut feeling
    The 'establishment' parties have a core/base to bump along at, Reforms vote is majority unstable/discontent so has much more capacity to inflate and deflate or burst. Much less tribal loyalty
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,925
    edited April 15
    Labour never get rid of their leaders, even the unpopular ones. The only Labour leader who can be said to have been removed before he wished was Blair, their most successful election winner ever, as Labour MPs pressed for him to be replaced by Brown. Labour also faces the problem that unlike Conservative MPs, who can remove an unpopular Tory leader by a simple VONC from most of them in that leader, Labour has to get party members involved to remove a leader. Hence even though most Labour MPs nominated Owen Smith against Corbyn in the 2016 Labour leadership election, Corbyn still defeated him as Labour members ignored Labour MPs and voted to retain Jezza.

    So even if Labour come third or worse in the May local and devolved elections that does not necessarily mean Starmer will be removed. Labour members polling shows that Starmer would still beat Mahmood, Yvette Cooper and Wes Streeting with Labour members. Burnham would beat him but Starmer ensured the NEC stopped him returning to Parliament, only Rayner leads Starmer with Labour members, so only if Rayner got enough nominations from Labour MPs for a leadership challenge would Starmer really be under threat.

    https://labourlist.org/2026/02/keir-starmer-wes-streeting-leadership-survation-poll/

    The US comparison doesn't really hold though, Biden was never beaten by Trump, indeed Biden is the only Democrat who has ever beaten Trump in the electoral college as he did in 2020. Replacing Biden with Harris saw the Democrats face crushing and humiliating defeat in 2024 as Trump beat Harris in both the popular vote and electoral college, who knows, even a dementia hit Biden might have done better than Harris did in the rustbelt still
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,546

    Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
    I think it will be something like Lab 34 Con 31. And in seats similar to 2005. Obviously I hope Con win but I don't think that's happening.

    Reform to fade away
    I think that's very likely. Anyone remember the Alliance polling 51% in 1981? How large a majority did they win two years later?
    It is just possible that Reform win 1 seat only at the GE. Lee Anderson in Ashfield.

    You heard it here first. DYOR!
    That is the WRONG answer.

    I'd take a resurrection of Blankety-Black in preference.
  • Apart from Iran which was a major misstep Badenoch has made good calls as LOTO.

    No reason why the Tories won’t be the beneficiaries as we get closer to an election. They are in my view very underpriced.

    "Apart from Iran" is rather a large caveat there. She's called the big foreign policy issue of her tenure in a direction that is both wrong and very unpopular.

    In other areas, she's essentially done what you'd expect from an opposition - opposing unpopular decisions. She's somewhat disadvantaged in that respect, though, as the response is always that she was in the cabinet relatively recently, dealing rather poorly with many of the same issues.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,147
    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2044158774819107029

    Green leader Zack Polanski will call for policies to end the "affordability crisis" tomorrow

    - The introduction of a 10:1 pay ratio, whereby the highest-paid employee earns no more than ten times the lowest-paid

    - Free school meals for all primary and secondary pupils

    - Universal energy bill support for households and stronger rent controls

    - A customs union with the EU to cut business costs

    Not sure this is the right moves Zack

    Isn't this what Labour should be doing? :)
    Universal energy bill support should absolutely NOT be a Green policy, it's subsidizing energy usage.
    The Green solution would be financial support to enable a reduction in energy usage and hence reduced costs
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,519

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2044158774819107029

    Green leader Zack Polanski will call for policies to end the "affordability crisis" tomorrow

    - The introduction of a 10:1 pay ratio, whereby the highest-paid employee earns no more than ten times the lowest-paid

    - Free school meals for all primary and secondary pupils

    - Universal energy bill support for households and stronger rent controls

    - A customs union with the EU to cut business costs

    Not sure this is the right moves Zack

    I've suggested the pay ratio before for public sector organisations.

    Applying it to football clubs might be difficult.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376

    Labour recovers to around 30%, job done.

    Andy Burnham PM 2028/2029. Election in one of those years. Labour led government.

    Not if the Tories recover to 33%.

    I know which I think the more likely.
    I think it will be something like Lab 34 Con 31. And in seats similar to 2005. Obviously I hope Con win but I don't think that's happening.

    Reform to fade away
    I think that's very likely. Anyone remember the Alliance polling 51% in 1981? How large a majority did they win two years later?
    I’m too young but were the Alliance talked about a lot at the time and looked certain to win?
    David Steele's famous line from his speech at the Lib conference in 1981 was 'go back to your constituencies and prepare for government'
    The by election wins in Glasgow and Crosby were pretty enormous.
    They were still making massive gains in votes in the by elections 82-83 in Birmingham, Peckham, Darlington, Mitcham and Bermondsey but only won Bermondsey which kinda summed up 1983 GE - massive vote gains, 23 seats

    Whether Reform, Greens etc suffer the same fate? Both Lab and Con are much less popular than the 1980s.....
    They won Bermondsey on the back of a horrifically homophobic campaign.
    Yep. The straight choice was apparently made
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2044158774819107029

    Green leader Zack Polanski will call for policies to end the "affordability crisis" tomorrow

    - The introduction of a 10:1 pay ratio, whereby the highest-paid employee earns no more than ten times the lowest-paid

    - Free school meals for all primary and secondary pupils

    - Universal energy bill support for households and stronger rent controls

    - A customs union with the EU to cut business costs

    Not sure this is the right moves Zack

    I've suggested the pay ratio before for public sector organisations.

    Applying it to football clubs might be difficult.
    The pay ratio one would be good for anyone who works in outsourcing or in task mechanisation.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,869

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2044158774819107029

    Green leader Zack Polanski will call for policies to end the "affordability crisis" tomorrow

    - The introduction of a 10:1 pay ratio, whereby the highest-paid employee earns no more than ten times the lowest-paid

    - Free school meals for all primary and secondary pupils

    - Universal energy bill support for households and stronger rent controls

    - A customs union with the EU to cut business costs

    Not sure this is the right moves Zack

    I've suggested the pay ratio before for public sector organisations.

    Applying it to football clubs might be difficult.
    Surely it would just lead to outsourcing where it wasn't already happening.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,272

    Battlebus said:

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So she’s not in favour of the rule of law then.

    As with the Shamima Begum case, there’s a lot of people who will be worried about stuff like this.
    You are being polite. She benefited from the immigration laws at the time, and now calls out others for wanting the same for their family.

    If she only concentrated on doing the work rather than the soundbites, she might become a so-so politician but she's too lazy for that.
    Badenoch was born in Britain in 1980, a year when the UK had net emigration of 55k.

    Badenoch returned to Britain in 1996, a year when the UK had net immigration of 55k.

    The immigration laws of that time helped keep migration at controlled, planned for levels, something they haven't done for twenty years.
    Would argue she has won what Rhodes says is the "first prize in the lottery of life" but wishes to deny others who legally have that first prize.

    I would call that racism.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,519

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2044158774819107029

    Green leader Zack Polanski will call for policies to end the "affordability crisis" tomorrow

    - The introduction of a 10:1 pay ratio, whereby the highest-paid employee earns no more than ten times the lowest-paid

    - Free school meals for all primary and secondary pupils

    - Universal energy bill support for households and stronger rent controls

    - A customs union with the EU to cut business costs

    Not sure this is the right moves Zack

    Universal energy bill support is a subsidy to the rich or rather a money go round as extra taxes on the rich fund subsidies for the rich.

    Its also an encouragement to waste energy which is not something any party, let alone one which purports to be environmental, should be advocating.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,869

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So they should be deported even if found not guilty? An interesting approach to the law!

    I note AR had been found in possession of a knife by the school 10 times, was known to Prevent, to social workers, CAMHS and Police. If none of these were willing to act, what could the parents be realistically expected to do?
    Right, so why did the inquiry chair bring the parents into it?

    My hunch is that the authorities didn't have sight of what he was doing at home and, had they known, he could have been locked up for a long time on terrorism charges.

    But... the powers that be don't like the t word being mentioned in relation to Southport.
    The strong implication is that the parents were lying about how bad things were to avoid AR being taken from them by the authorities. They do have some blame here. Firstly for raising a murderer (most of manage NOT to do that) and secondly for covering for him. Is that to the level prosecution and punishment? One hopes at least that the knowledge of what he did is some punishment.

    I was reading about Ian Huntly, no longer a guest of the King, and the role of Maxine Carr in helping him to try to cover up his crimes. She served threes for perverting the course of justice. Ultimately justice was done. In this case by failing to be candid his parents have played a role in the death of three children, the wounding of many more children and adults (both physically and psychologically) and there needs to be come back.

    We have, for many years, been reluctant to blame parents for their off-springs misdeeds. Yet there is no bigger influence on a child than their parents.

    Time to change that attitude.
    I agree with that (although I'd note that Maxine Carr was done for what happened after the murders). But Foxy is right to ask what more could his parents have done? I reckon if you went to the authorities and said your child is a proper wrong'un/mentally unstable and the powers that be ought to do something, I'm not sure they'd believe you.

    That's why I come back to the terrorism stuff. That's what they could have got him on, but, of course, we can't say that Southport was terrorism.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,519
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So she’s not in favour of the rule of law then.

    As with the Shamima Begum case, there’s a lot of people who will be worried about stuff like this.
    You are being polite. She benefited from the immigration laws at the time, and now calls out others for wanting the same for their family.

    If she only concentrated on doing the work rather than the soundbites, she might become a so-so politician but she's too lazy for that.
    Badenoch was born in Britain in 1980, a year when the UK had net emigration of 55k.

    Badenoch returned to Britain in 1996, a year when the UK had net immigration of 55k.

    The immigration laws of that time helped keep migration at controlled, planned for levels, something they haven't done for twenty years.
    Would argue she has won what Rhodes says is the "first prize in the lottery of life" but wishes to deny others who legally have that first prize.

    I would call that racism.
    Then you would be wrong.

    Its arguing that someone should be stripped of that prize if their subsequent behaviour shows them to have been unworthy of receiving it.

    Now that may or may not be a good idea but it is not race specific.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,873
    Dopermean said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2044158774819107029

    Green leader Zack Polanski will call for policies to end the "affordability crisis" tomorrow

    - The introduction of a 10:1 pay ratio, whereby the highest-paid employee earns no more than ten times the lowest-paid

    - Free school meals for all primary and secondary pupils

    - Universal energy bill support for households and stronger rent controls

    - A customs union with the EU to cut business costs

    Not sure this is the right moves Zack

    Isn't this what Labour should be doing? :)
    Universal energy bill support should absolutely NOT be a Green policy, it's subsidizing energy usage.
    The Green solution would be financial support to enable a reduction in energy usage and hence reduced costs
    It depends what is meant by that. If it means a basic tariffwithout excessive standing charges to allow everyone acces then that is good, if it means subsidising fossil fuels pro rata then it is bad.
  • isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So she’s not in favour of the rule of law then.

    As with the Shamima Begum case, there’s a lot of people who will be worried about stuff like this.
    Where did she oppose the rule of law?

    Politicians have the ability to change the law. Hiding behind the "rule of law" is not a politicians job.

    If the law is right, argue that. If the law is wrong, argue to change it. She made an argument to change the law, not break the law.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,634
    edited April 15
    It's very rare for there to be a right-wing bandwagon that Badenoch doesn't jump on if she thinks there's political mileage to make out of it. The latest, deporting Rudakubana's parents regardless of whether they have committed an offence, is simply pandering to the base instincts of many of the British people. Politicians should rise above such knee-jerk sentiments, but Badenoch just can't resist it. She's really rather shallow.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,695
    .

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So they should be deported even if found not guilty? An interesting approach to the law!

    I note AR had been found in possession of a knife by the school 10 times, was known to Prevent, to social workers, CAMHS and Police. If none of these were willing to act, what could the parents be realistically expected to do?
    Right, so why did the inquiry chair bring the parents into it?

    My hunch is that the authorities didn't have sight of what he was doing at home and, had they known, he could have been locked up for a long time on terrorism charges.

    But... the powers that be don't like the t word being mentioned in relation to Southport.
    The strong implication is that the parents were lying about how bad things were to avoid AR being taken from them by the authorities. They do have some blame here. Firstly for raising a murderer (most of manage NOT to do that) and secondly for covering for him. Is that to the level prosecution and punishment? One hopes at least that the knowledge of what he did is some punishment.

    I was reading about Ian Huntly, no longer a guest of the King, and the role of Maxine Carr in helping him to try to cover up his crimes. She served threes for perverting the course of justice. Ultimately justice was done. In this case by failing to be candid his parents have played a role in the death of three children, the wounding of many more children and adults (both physically and psychologically) and there needs to be come back.

    We have, for many years, been reluctant to blame parents for their off-springs misdeeds. Yet there is no bigger influence on a child than their parents.

    Time to change that attitude.
    Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of that argument, what Badenoch is suggesting isn't legislation to bring about what you suggest, but the exercise of arbitrary government power to punish a couple of individuals.

    I realise that idea will perhaps have appeal to some (perhaps even some PBers), but whichever side of the argument you're on, it is surely wrong ?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,519
    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2044158774819107029

    Green leader Zack Polanski will call for policies to end the "affordability crisis" tomorrow

    - The introduction of a 10:1 pay ratio, whereby the highest-paid employee earns no more than ten times the lowest-paid

    - Free school meals for all primary and secondary pupils

    - Universal energy bill support for households and stronger rent controls

    - A customs union with the EU to cut business costs

    Not sure this is the right moves Zack

    I've suggested the pay ratio before for public sector organisations.

    Applying it to football clubs might be difficult.
    Surely it would just lead to outsourcing where it wasn't already happening.
    Indeed.

    Though that itself could be taken into account when calculating the ratio or just by basing the ratio not on the lowest paid in an organisation but national minimum or average wage.

    And if the highest paid employees try to set themselves as limited companies then that could be matched by widening the definitions of employment.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,695

    isam said:

    Rudakubana's parents knew their son was stockpiling weapons and planning an attack. They chose silence. Three little girls paid with their lives.

    As I said yesterday morning, they should face the consequences of their actions, or indeed their inaction. If they escape criminal charges on a technicality, the Government should deport them.

    And if the ECHR stands in the way?

    That tells you everything you need to know about why we must leave.


    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2044309663353565509?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So she’s not in favour of the rule of law then.

    As with the Shamima Begum case, there’s a lot of people who will be worried about stuff like this.
    Where did she oppose the rule of law?

    Politicians have the ability to change the law. Hiding behind the "rule of law" is not a politicians job.

    If the law is right, argue that. If the law is wrong, argue to change it. She made an argument to change the law, not break the law.
    The law change her comment implies would hand arbitrary power to government to deport at will.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,695
    The number that matters most in this piece isn’t the margin on Sunday.

    In 2014, Orban’s vote share fell from 52.7% to 44.9% - and he kept his supermajority anyway. Because the constitutional machinery he built between 2010 and 2014 was designed to convert a plurality into unchecked power. Majoritarian multipliers. Gerrymandered maps. Courts with loyalists on 12-year terms. A Budget Council that can dissolve parliament if a budget lapses.

    He said it plainly to an Austrian reporter: “I make no secret of the fact that in this respect I tie the hands of the next government. Not just the next one, but the next ten.”

    Magyar won the election. He did not yet win the system. Those are two different things and the distance between them is where democracies get lost.

    JVL’s point - and it lands hard - is that the American illiberal project is watching Hungary right now not as a cautionary tale but as a how-to guide for what comes after a defeat. The rehabilitation of Orban is already underway in certain op-ed pages. The argument: if he left without bloodshed, he was never really a threat.

    That argument is doing work right now. Pay attention to who’s making it.

    https://x.com/micyoung75/status/2044222566147981538

    That would seem to include some here.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,147

    In snouts in the trough news:

    The costs of managing the insolvency of the main trading arm of Greensill are expected to reach more than £90 million this year.

    Administrators of Greensill Capital (UK), or GCUK, which collapsed more than five years ago, said they are still dealing with the complicated fallout from its failure, including a series of regulatory and legal issues and the fact that more than $587 million “remains outstanding” from Sanjeev Gupta’s GFG Alliance.

    Insolvency practitioners from Grant Thornton disclosed in filings that time costs and expenses on the company have reached £82.6 million, making it one of the most expensive UK corporate collapses of recent years. Administrators said they anticipate a further £11.6 million in time costs and expenses to deal with “remaining matters” this year.

    A further £1.2 million has been incurred on Greensill Capital Management, also in administration. Grant Thornton is charging an average of £779 an hour for the insolvency work.


    https://www.thetimes.com/business/companies-markets/article/greensill-capital-collapse-insolvency-bill-hits-83m-3kbmvhf38

    One of my favourite posts on a different forum was a self-proclaimed "financial expert" saying that Grant Thornton didn't have the accountancy expertise to understand Greensill / GFG's "hypothetical" invoices.

    I think the money's gone folks!
    GFG borrowed money against fictional invoices for supplying steel they didn't supply.

    I like the Greensill model because it's actually really simple.

    Repackage factored invoices as insurance based securities and sell them to someone clueless at Credit Suisse
    Ran out of real invoices? Type up some "hypothetical" invoices or offer 0% salary advances to the public sector "out of the goodness of your heart" as filler to increase the volume.

    All OK until someone at the Aussie underwriters does a check and hits the panic button about the enormous risk his colleague has put them in.
This discussion has been closed.