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Why the Republicans are in a panic about Hispanics – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,793
edited 4:03PM in General
Why the Republicans are in a panic about Hispanics – politicalbetting.com

There are things to be said about high/low propensity voters but the big takeaway seems to be this is a new swing voter audience. pic.twitter.com/VfYDMbsyCf

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,841
    FAFO.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,674

    eek said:

    Also worth emphasizing that a lot of Gerrymandering has been done on the basis that Hispanic voters tend Republican. That Gerrymandering is problematic if that logic falls apart

    That would be so funny.

    GOP deserve to be out of office for two generations at least.
    Whilst that would be just, I'm not sure the current Republican leadership are in a position to say "hey ho, we had a good run and probably deserve what's coming".

    That trying to avoid the inevitable will just make the retribution worse is only partially relevant, because the retribution will be on a different generation of red-rosetted politicians.

    (Why did the Latino vote swing so hard towards Trump last time? Long term factors, or did they just not like Harris?)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,800
    Politics, Patriotism, and Penalties | Sir Gareth Southgate
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV7ubGT3lUk

    TRiP Leading – Rory & Al interview the former England manager and penalty-misser (and an advert for software for lawyers at the start).
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,902

    Politics, Patriotism, and Penalties | Sir Gareth Southgate
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV7ubGT3lUk

    TRiP Leading – Rory & Al interview the former England manager and penalty-misser (and an advert for software for lawyers at the start).

    Did they ask him about team / man management and whether scapegoating your more skilled players was a successful strategy?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,742
    There are many different Spanish-speaking communities in the USA, including Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans and Native Americans. It's a mistake to view them all as 'the same'.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,053
    I’ve got some A3 printouts of old music concert posters that I have on my wall in my front room in clip frames of bands and artists I really like

    I’ve got Santana at Fillmore West with Steppenwolf and The Staple Singers supporting, and the same artwork that they used on their first album. James Brown with Bobby Bird and Lynn Collins at the Paramount Theatre. The incredible and unpredictable Sly & the Family Stone with the Staple Singers at Madison Square Garden

    And a three night run at the Fillmore Auditorium by Otis Redding in December 1967, weeks before he died. He had a different support act each night. First night was the Grateful Dead and last night Country Joe and the Fish

    I’d never noticed until today the name of the band that played with him on the second night: Johnny Talbot and De Thangs. So I looked them up

    I like them. This is Watcha Wanna Do from 1964

    https://youtu.be/F6lafuzuGXw?si=6c-jYv8dupz3Ft5R
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,034

    There are many different Spanish-speaking communities in the USA, including Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans and Native Americans. It's a mistake to view them all as 'the same'.

    Do Native Americans speak Spanish?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,883
    edited 4:51PM
    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,446
    FPT
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    WTF ?

    Nearly half of sexually active young people in UK have experienced strangulation, study shows
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/nov/18/sexually-active-young-people-uk-choking-strangulation-sex

    Not half of young people but a very significant proportion of young women. Women - the word which no-one wants to use in case it makes men feel bad even though its use would be factually accurate.

    And what's with the WTF anyway.

    If men had listened to what women, including those pesky feminists, have been saying for some time they would know that -
    (a) this has been going on for a while
    (b) it is largely fuelled by porn
    (c) some sex education in schools has emphasised the importance of getting consent before seeking to choke someone during sex, which rather misses the point I feel. There is no safe way of choking someone. It is associated with a range of health risks. A lot of women do not like it but feel they ought to go along with it.
    (d) Non-fatal strangulation or choking has been a criminal offence since 2022.
    (e) Strangulation is the second most common method of killing women by men.
    (f) It has been announced this month that pornography showing strangulation is to become a criminal offence with tech companies placed under an obligation to prevent users accessing such material.
    I was aware of the practice, as it's been reported (fairly regularly) before.
    It was the sheer numbers which surprised me.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,529

    There are many different Spanish-speaking communities in the USA, including Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans and Native Americans. It's a mistake to view them all as 'the same'.

    Do Native Americans speak Spanish?
    Depends what you mean by American. America = North and South America. But for some reason Usonians seem to think it means USA.

    But, either way, there's a fair Spanish colonial heritage whether in SA/Mexico or in the southern states of the USA such as California, Nevada, and New Mexico. So Spanish/Castilian was the colonial language and perhaps also a lingua franca.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,446

    There are many different Spanish-speaking communities in the USA, including Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans and Native Americans. It's a mistake to view them all as 'the same'.

    Do Native Americans speak Spanish?
    The majority of them, apparently.
    https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/most-native-americans-speak-spanish

    That some do is hardly surprising, since the Spanish were colonists before we were.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,428

    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school

    I don't think sins of adolescence should be visited on the same people when adults. The problem for Farage, it's not clear he's changed his true nature.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,441

    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school

    Don't write off the Tories. It will be they who benefit if Reform implode.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,529
    edited 5:00PM
    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    WTF ?

    Nearly half of sexually active young people in UK have experienced strangulation, study shows
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/nov/18/sexually-active-young-people-uk-choking-strangulation-sex

    Not half of young people but a very significant proportion of young women. Women - the word which no-one wants to use in case it makes men feel bad even though its use would be factually accurate.

    And what's with the WTF anyway.

    If men had listened to what women, including those pesky feminists, have been saying for some time they would know that -
    (a) this has been going on for a while
    (b) it is largely fuelled by porn
    (c) some sex education in schools has emphasised the importance of getting consent before seeking to choke someone during sex, which rather misses the point I feel. There is no safe way of choking someone. It is associated with a range of health risks. A lot of women do not like it but feel they ought to go along with it.
    (d) Non-fatal strangulation or choking has been a criminal offence since 2022.
    (e) Strangulation is the second most common method of killing women by men.
    (f) It has been announced this month that pornography showing strangulation is to become a criminal offence with tech companies placed under an obligation to prevent users accessing such material.
    I was aware of the practice, as it's been reported (fairly regularly) before.
    It was the sheer numbers which surprised me.
    Indeed. One couldn't miss it in the Graun (which might, in seriousness, possibly have something to do with why some of us haven't come across it). Though after the first read or two I shuddered at the headline and moved quickly on.

    Never forgotten a colleague of mine making a joke about oranges back in the post-glacial era and having to have it explained to me, either.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,428

    eek said:

    Also worth emphasizing that a lot of Gerrymandering has been done on the basis that Hispanic voters tend Republican. That Gerrymandering is problematic if that logic falls apart

    That would be so funny.

    GOP deserve to be out of office for two generations at least.
    Whilst that would be just, I'm not sure the current Republican leadership are in a position to say "hey ho, we had a good run and probably deserve what's coming".

    That trying to avoid the inevitable will just make the retribution worse is only partially relevant, because the retribution will be on a different generation of red-rosetted politicians.

    (Why did the Latino vote swing so hard towards Trump last time? Long term factors, or did they just not like Harris?)
    Anecdotal evidence Hispanics voting for Trump admired his strongman rhetoric. They didn't realise it included them and theirs.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    FF43 said:

    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school

    I don't think sins of adolescence should be visited on the same people when adults. The problem for Farage is it's clear he's not changed his true nature.
    FTFY
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,446
    .
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    WTF ?

    Nearly half of sexually active young people in UK have experienced strangulation, study shows
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/nov/18/sexually-active-young-people-uk-choking-strangulation-sex

    Not half of young people but a very significant proportion of young women. Women - the word which no-one wants to use in case it makes men feel bad even though its use would be factually accurate.

    And what's with the WTF anyway.

    If men had listened to what women, including those pesky feminists, have been saying for some time they would know that -
    (a) this has been going on for a while
    (b) it is largely fuelled by porn
    (c) some sex education in schools has emphasised the importance of getting consent before seeking to choke someone during sex, which rather misses the point I feel. There is no safe way of choking someone. It is associated with a range of health risks. A lot of women do not like it but feel they ought to go along with it.
    (d) Non-fatal strangulation or choking has been a criminal offence since 2022.
    (e) Strangulation is the second most common method of killing women by men.
    (f) It has been announced this month that pornography showing strangulation is to become a criminal offence with tech companies placed under an obligation to prevent users accessing such material.
    I was aware of the practice, as it's been reported (fairly regularly) before.
    It was the sheer numbers which surprised me.
    Indeed. One couldn't miss it in the Graun (which might, in seriousness, possibly have something to do with why some of us haven't come across it). Though after the first read or two I shuddered at the headline and moved quickly on.

    Never forgotten a colleague of mine making a joke about oranges back in the post-glacial era and having to have it explained to me, either.
    On the subject of normalising abuse of women.

    This is pretty disgusting behavior to Jennifer Jacobs. Why does the rest of the media act like nothing shocking just happened?
    https://x.com/neeratanden/status/1990799945612603887
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    Nigelb said:

    There are many different Spanish-speaking communities in the USA, including Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans and Native Americans. It's a mistake to view them all as 'the same'.

    Do Native Americans speak Spanish?
    The majority of them, apparently.
    https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/most-native-americans-speak-spanish

    That some do is hardly surprising, since the Spanish were colonists before we were.
    If you don't have the good fortune to be true born, or English, or a man, or a woman, I hope you will join in as a mark of ordinary decent respect. Just remember if it wasn't for the English, you'd all be Spanish!

    Michael Flanders, introducing his song 'The English' in New York.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,446
    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,439
    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    Article 5?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,391
    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The two Ukranian passport holders were apparently already wanted in Ukraine, on charges of terrorism / espionage / aiding the enemy.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,034

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    Article 5?
    A proportionate response would be to demolish every railway bridge in Russia west of the Urals, but for some reason other people might suggest I was "over-reacting".
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,795
    eek said:

    Also worth emphasizing that a lot of Gerrymandering has been done on the basis that Hispanic voters tend Republican. That Gerrymandering is problematic if that logic falls apart

    eg Texas
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,428
    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    Curious to understand Russian thinking behind these sabotage events.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,364

    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school

    17 is legally a child and is also considered one under the UNHRC.

    Unpleasant for sure. Reprehensible certainly. We do not know if it is true or not, of course, it is just an allegation.

    Most of us do stupid things when young.

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,883
    edited 5:30PM
    Taz said:

    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school

    17 is legally a child and is also considered one under the UNHRC.

    Unpleasant for sure. Reprehensible certainly. We do not know if it is true or not, of course, it is just an allegation.

    Most of us do stupid things when young.

    Although the article seems to suggest that this went on throughout his school career, from 13 to 18, and there are multiple, varying allegations from different pupils there, too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,587
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    Curious to understand Russian thinking behind these sabotage events.
    "They blow up our oil refineries. We blow up their trains tracks."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    Curious to understand Russian thinking behind these sabotage events.
    Maybe to make it harder/less appealing for the Ukrainians to regauge their railways?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,391
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    Curious to understand Russian thinking behind these sabotage events.
    Not sure there’s an awful lot of thinking involved. They managed to get a couple of men with friendly passports, and found a way to smuggle a couple of pounds of explosives into Poland.

    The result is probably more Polish borders closed with Belarus, tighter security on Polish borders with Ukraine, and a continuation of NATO intelligence heading the way of the Ukranians with regard to Russian targets.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,183
    edited 5:37PM
    I find it neither surprising, nor particularly newsworthy, that Farage was a bit of a right-wing shit when he was a kid. Rather, I'd be surprised if he weren't, given his adult trajectory.

    As a line of attack on him, however, I think dredging this stuff up from 40+ years ago is a complete waste of time.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,496
    "Chinese embassy calls spying allegations 'pure fabrication and malicious slander'"

    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-starmer-asylum-mahmood-labour-budget-taxes-badenoch-farage-12593360
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    Andy_JS said:

    "Chinese embassy calls spying allegations 'pure fabrication and malicious slander'"

    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-starmer-asylum-mahmood-labour-budget-taxes-badenoch-farage-12593360

    never believe anything until it's been officially denied.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,582
    edited 5:38PM
    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,364
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,883
    edited 5:39PM

    I find it neither surprising, nor particularly newsworthy, that Farage was a bit of a right-wing shit when he was a kid. Rather, I'd be surprised if he weren't, given his adult trajectory.

    As a line of attack on him, however, I think dredging this stuff up from 40+ years ago is a complete waste of time.

    I would say, yes and no. There's being a right-wing shit, and then there's allegedly regularly walking up and down in classrooms aged 18 doing Nazi salutes and doing gas chamber noises to Jewish pupils. amongst all the other stuff described there.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,348
    Sometimes things happen, or things accumulate, that do motivate low-propensity voters to get out and vote. Then, as we know, the establishment can get quite the shock.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,446
    Taz said:

    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school

    17 is legally a child and is also considered one under the UNHRC.

    Unpleasant for sure. Reprehensible certainly. We do not know if it is true or not, of course, it is just an allegation.

    Most of us do stupid things when young.

    Many of us (most ?) acknowledge the stupid things, and change.

    Clearly we can't know for sure who is telling the truth - but denial to the extent you're accusing half a dozen contemporaries of lying about their recollections of you, is rather more unusual.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,348

    eek said:

    Also worth emphasizing that a lot of Gerrymandering has been done on the basis that Hispanic voters tend Republican. That Gerrymandering is problematic if that logic falls apart

    That would be so funny.

    GOP deserve to be out of office for two generations at least.
    Trouble is, so do the Democrats.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,435
    edited 5:40PM

    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school

    Interesting. Would many of us be surprised if he went through a Nazi and a racist phase at boarding school?

    And If they're running Andrew out of town who impacts on none of us surely Farage a possible next PM should be in our cross hairs

    .......Daily Mail where are you?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,446
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    Curious to understand Russian thinking behind these sabotage events.
    It's reportedly the line which moves arms to Ukraine.
    So it's intended both to disrupt and to intimidate.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,348
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,582
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    Shoot them down. Link sabotage like this to direct, limited but overt action in Ukraine.

    The alternative is to simply let Putin do what he wants.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,364
    Growth agenda latest

    https://x.com/edconwaysky/status/1990817996600652147?s=61

    ExxonMobil is closing its plastics refinery in Mossmorran. 400 jobs.
    For the first time since the UK invented polyethylene (the most important of all plastics) we are no longer manufacturing the key ingredient, ethylene, in this country...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    edited 5:45PM
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    The most effective retaliation would be to find a way to sink the Killer Whale, formerly Graceful, now moored in St Petersburg.

    Because that would not only be about the same cost as the damage to the railway line but a direct personal affront to the Womble lookalike.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,446
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    WTF ?

    Nearly half of sexually active young people in UK have experienced strangulation, study shows
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/nov/18/sexually-active-young-people-uk-choking-strangulation-sex

    Not half of young people but a very significant proportion of young women. Women - the word which no-one wants to use in case it makes men feel bad even though its use would be factually accurate.

    And what's with the WTF anyway.

    If men had listened to what women, including those pesky feminists, have been saying for some time they would know that -
    (a) this has been going on for a while
    (b) it is largely fuelled by porn
    (c) some sex education in schools has emphasised the importance of getting consent before seeking to choke someone during sex, which rather misses the point I feel. There is no safe way of choking someone. It is associated with a range of health risks. A lot of women do not like it but feel they ought to go along with it.
    (d) Non-fatal strangulation or choking has been a criminal offence since 2022.
    (e) Strangulation is the second most common method of killing women by men.
    (f) It has been announced this month that pornography showing strangulation is to become a criminal offence with tech companies placed under an obligation to prevent users accessing such material.
    I was aware of the practice, as it's been reported (fairly regularly) before.
    It was the sheer numbers which surprised me.
    Indeed. One couldn't miss it in the Graun (which might, in seriousness, possibly have something to do with why some of us haven't come across it). Though after the first read or two I shuddered at the headline and moved quickly on.

    Never forgotten a colleague of mine making a joke about oranges back in the post-glacial era and having to have it explained to me, either.
    On the subject of normalising abuse of women.

    This is pretty disgusting behavior to Jennifer Jacobs. Why does the rest of the media act like nothing shocking just happened?
    https://x.com/neeratanden/status/1990799945612603887
    There's quite a lot of comment about how none of her colleagues defended her.
    I'm not entirely surprised, since those allowed such access to Trump are a selected group, from which those who are 'awkward' tend to get kicked out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,587
    edited 5:46PM
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    Shoot them down. Link sabotage like this to direct, limited but overt action in Ukraine.

    The alternative is to simply let Putin do what he wants.
    Have a dummy RV delivered to the Kremlin.

    With a PostIt on it

    “Next one’s coming faster”
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,496

    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school

    Really grim stuff.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,364
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    Shoot them down. Link sabotage like this to direct, limited but overt action in Ukraine.

    The alternative is to simply let Putin do what he wants.
    Shoot what down ?

    This sabotage was ground based.

    Unless you catch them at it you cannot take action against it only after the event.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,435

    I find it neither surprising, nor particularly newsworthy, that Farage was a bit of a right-wing shit when he was a kid. Rather, I'd be surprised if he weren't, given his adult trajectory.

    As a line of attack on him, however, I think dredging this stuff up from 40+ years ago is a complete waste of time.

    On the contrary I think there's a whole advertising campaign sitting on a shelf waiting for a Party with a sense of humour to pick up.

    Zack?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,053
    Roger said:

    I find it neither surprising, nor particularly newsworthy, that Farage was a bit of a right-wing shit when he was a kid. Rather, I'd be surprised if he weren't, given his adult trajectory.

    As a line of attack on him, however, I think dredging this stuff up from 40+ years ago is a complete waste of time.

    On the contrary I think there's a whole advertising campaign sitting on a shelf waiting for a Party with a sense of humour to pick up.

    Zack?
    He is the joker in the pack
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,883
    edited 5:54PM
    On the subject of being 17 or 18, I can see that the article also alleges that aged 18 he was teaching other pupils "Gas them" chants in the school bus, and essentially intimidating them into singing along too. What a dreadful teenager.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,446
    edited 5:49PM
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    Shoot them down. Link sabotage like this to direct, limited but overt action in Ukraine.

    The alternative is to simply let Putin do what he wants.
    Shoot what down ?

    This sabotage was ground based.

    Unless you catch them at it you cannot take action against it only after the event.

    We (Europe) should give Ukraine sufficient arms to defeat, rather than stalemate the invasion.
    As we ought to have done much sooner.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,582
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    Shoot them down. Link sabotage like this to direct, limited but overt action in Ukraine.

    The alternative is to simply let Putin do what he wants.
    Shoot what down ?

    This sabotage was ground based.

    Unless you catch them at it you cannot take action against it only after the event.

    Yep, that's what I'm suggesting. Unfortunately, we'll always wriggle out of taking the difficult decision so we can look forward to Russia disrupting our economies and democracies for years to come.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,078
    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,441

    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
    The obvious response was to pull out of the World Cup. Not sure why we didn't.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    edited 5:52PM

    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
    It wasn't 'not fuming,' it was denying Russian involvement while hinting the British government had carried out the operation itself.

    Which was a totally insane position to adopt, and along with the increasingly damaging revelations about his long history of antisemitic behaviour did a great deal to explode the nice guy image he had been carefully building up.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,034
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    Shoot them down. Link sabotage like this to direct, limited but overt action in Ukraine.

    The alternative is to simply let Putin do what he wants.
    The drone incursions have been normalised. The Russians have been sending reconnaissance drones all over Belgium and the RAF have sent a drone countermeasures team, but I don't think any drone has been stopped yet.

    Europe is so scared of the risk of escalation that we're sitting back and letting Russia escalate with no deterrence to them escalating further, again and again.

    Right now we are more scared of them and it shows, and so they can do pretty much what they want.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,364
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    Shoot them down. Link sabotage like this to direct, limited but overt action in Ukraine.

    The alternative is to simply let Putin do what he wants.
    Shoot what down ?

    This sabotage was ground based.

    Unless you catch them at it you cannot take action against it only after the event.

    We (Europe) should give Ukraine sufficient arms to defeat, rather than stalemate the invasion.
    Who’s ‘we’ ? NATO presumably ?

    I doubt the UK has sufficient and if we do that we may as well be at war with Russia ourselves.

    We also risk leaving ourselves without adequate to defend ourselves if we donate too much. We need to stop talking about increasing defence spending and get on with it. The timeline to get new kit is not weeks.

    What would it take in terms of weapons for Ukraine to win and, more importantly, in terms of manpower. Does anyone really know outside of the upper echelons of NATO ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,364
    edited 5:54PM
    tlg86 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
    The obvious response was to pull out of the World Cup. Not sure why we didn't.
    I think I have an idea why ?

    💰💰💰💰
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,674

    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school

    The normal right-wing response to those sorts of claims is the "yes, I said and did some bad things in my youth, and I now regret them". The notorious example is John Bercow.

    Nigel's problem is that it's much harder for him to say that, given the brand he has built up. And at least some of his supporters would leave him, either because they believe in free speech or because they believe in the alleged opinions of Young Nigel. It's not entirely fair to blame Adult Nige for the alleged sins of Young Nige, but since when has politics been fair?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,078
    edited 6:00PM
    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
    It wasn't 'not fuming,' it was denying Russian involvement while hinting the British government had carried out the operation itself.

    Which was a totally insane position to adopt, and along with the increasingly damaging revelations about his long history of antisemitic behaviour did a great deal to explode the nice guy image he had been carefully building up.
    Your memory is better than mine. Must be my age!

    I've still got a soft 'political' spot for Corbyn, though, I don't think he's seriously anti-semitic. Remember, Arabs are Semitic.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
    The obvious response was to pull out of the World Cup. Not sure why we didn't.
    I think I have an idea why ?

    💰💰💰💰
    Are you suggesting it brought little net benefit?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,582
    tlg86 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
    The obvious response was to pull out of the World Cup. Not sure why we didn't.
    At the very least. They sprayed a nerve agent around a British town and chucked it in a bin. We should feel humiliated and ashamed that we did so little in response.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,800

    Politics, Patriotism, and Penalties | Sir Gareth Southgate
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV7ubGT3lUk

    TRiP Leading – Rory & Al interview the former England manager and penalty-misser (and an advert for software for lawyers at the start).

    I’m A Celeb Booking Secrets
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xirOJE2zp-M

    There might have been some sort of email mix-up at Goalhanger. TRiP had the footballer and now TRiE has MPs.

    Richard & Marina name the MP who ITV wanted in the jungle this series but whose party pressured her (spoiler!) into dropping out, and which party leader wanted to do it but was turned down by ITV. And how much Matt Hancock trousered a couple of years ago.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,364
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    Shoot them down. Link sabotage like this to direct, limited but overt action in Ukraine.

    The alternative is to simply let Putin do what he wants.
    Shoot what down ?

    This sabotage was ground based.

    Unless you catch them at it you cannot take action against it only after the event.

    Yep, that's what I'm suggesting. Unfortunately, we'll always wriggle out of taking the difficult decision so we can look forward to Russia disrupting our economies and democracies for years to come.
    They’ve been doing that since the end of the Second World War. The Chinese are a bigger threat in that respect too.

    So what do you think they should shoot down, now as you cannot delay a response to an attack, and where and who shoots it down ? NATO ?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,883
    edited 5:59PM
    If those 18-year old allegations by several other pupils were pursued, Farage could actually conceivably be prosecuted for historical hate crimes.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,496

    If those 18-year old allegations by several other pupils were pursued, Farage could actually conceivably be prosecuted for historical hate crimes.

    Is that possible?
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,364

    If those 18-year old allegations were pursued, Farage could actually be prosecuted for a historical hate crime.

    Should it be pursued then or given the passing of time what is the point.

    Part of me thinks fuck him, he should account for it, part of me thinks should we go after such crimes after 40 plus years as that could open floodgates.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,391

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    Shoot them down. Link sabotage like this to direct, limited but overt action in Ukraine.

    The alternative is to simply let Putin do what he wants.
    The drone incursions have been normalised. The Russians have been sending reconnaissance drones all over Belgium and the RAF have sent a drone countermeasures team, but I don't think any drone has been stopped yet.

    Europe is so scared of the risk of escalation that we're sitting back and letting Russia escalate with no deterrence to them escalating further, again and again.

    Right now we are more scared of them and it shows, and so they can do pretty much what they want.
    Yes there needs to be a serious stepping-up of defending the NATO border, and not being afraid to take decisive action against enemy aircraft or UAVs in European or NATO airspace.

    They’re playing games, knowing that their bluff is unlikely to be called.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,446
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    Shoot them down. Link sabotage like this to direct, limited but overt action in Ukraine.

    The alternative is to simply let Putin do what he wants.
    Shoot what down ?

    This sabotage was ground based.

    Unless you catch them at it you cannot take action against it only after the event.

    We (Europe) should give Ukraine sufficient arms to defeat, rather than stalemate the invasion.
    Who’s ‘we’ ? NATO presumably ?

    I doubt the UK has sufficient and if we do that we may as well be at war with Russia ourselves.

    We also risk leaving ourselves without adequate to defend ourselves if we donate too much. We need to stop talking about increasing defence spending and get on with it. The timeline to get new kit is not weeks.

    What would it take in terms of weapons for Ukraine to win and, more importantly, in terms of manpower. Does anyone really know outside of the upper echelons of NATO ?
    As I said, Europe.
    And no, we don't risk leaving ourselves without adequate defences. The UK alone, obviously, cannot do it; a more determined Europe almost certainly could.

    The bigger future risk is a Russian conquest of a large part of Ukraine, which would significantly increase both their manufacturing base and ability to recruit more cannon fodder. And any lengthy armistice in that situation would allow China to overtly help rebuild Russia's military.

    We either stop this now, or fairly likely face some sort of repeat, within a decade.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,034
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace.
    What do you think we should do then ?
    Shoot them down. Link sabotage like this to direct, limited but overt action in Ukraine.

    The alternative is to simply let Putin do what he wants.
    Shoot what down ?

    This sabotage was ground based.

    Unless you catch them at it you cannot take action against it only after the event.

    We (Europe) should give Ukraine sufficient arms to defeat, rather than stalemate the invasion.
    Who’s ‘we’ ? NATO presumably ?

    I doubt the UK has sufficient and if we do that we may as well be at war with Russia ourselves.

    We also risk leaving ourselves without adequate to defend ourselves if we donate too much. We need to stop talking about increasing defence spending and get on with it. The timeline to get new kit is not weeks.

    What would it take in terms of weapons for Ukraine to win and, more importantly, in terms of manpower. Does anyone really know outside of the upper echelons of NATO ?
    The way to win the war is to have enough long-range weaponry that you can destroy Russian logistics. Then the Russian soldiers at the front line have no fuel, no drones, no ammunition.

    So that's enough long-range firepower to destroy oil refineries, drone factories, railways, ammunition dumps, etc. We don't have that firepower available, but we could do so if we decided to and built the capability and gave the money to the Ukrainians to build the capability.

    If we'd decided to do this three years ago the war would be over already.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,364
    Andy_JS said:

    If those 18-year old allegations by several other pupils were pursued, Farage could actually conceivably be prosecuted for historical hate crimes.

    Is that possible?
    I don’t think we have statute of limitations in the U.K.

    Of course if it went to trial it’s a risk. If he was found not guilty he’d be even more insufferable
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,892
    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    WTF ?

    Nearly half of sexually active young people in UK have experienced strangulation, study shows
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/nov/18/sexually-active-young-people-uk-choking-strangulation-sex

    Not half of young people but a very significant proportion of young women. Women - the word which no-one wants to use in case it makes men feel bad even though its use would be factually accurate.

    And what's with the WTF anyway.

    If men had listened to what women, including those pesky feminists, have been saying for some time they would know that -
    (a) this has been going on for a while
    (b) it is largely fuelled by porn
    (c) some sex education in schools has emphasised the importance of getting consent before seeking to choke someone during sex, which rather misses the point I feel. There is no safe way of choking someone. It is associated with a range of health risks. A lot of women do not like it but feel they ought to go along with it.
    (d) Non-fatal strangulation or choking has been a criminal offence since 2022.
    (e) Strangulation is the second most common method of killing women by men.
    (f) It has been announced this month that pornography showing strangulation is to become a criminal offence with tech companies placed under an obligation to prevent users accessing such material.
    I was aware of the practice, as it's been reported (fairly regularly) before.
    It was the sheer numbers which surprised me.
    We had a presentation to the prosecutors at our weekend training recently. It is very common and very dangerous. Our presenter had some people open cans of juice (alcohol may have been consumed the previous evening) and she pointed out the pressure used to open the cans was more than was necessary to interrupt the vagus nerve in the neck, which is potentially fatal.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,582
    edited 6:02PM

    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school

    The normal right-wing response to those sorts of claims is the "yes, I said and did some bad things in my youth, and I now regret them". The notorious example is John Bercow.

    Nigel's problem is that it's much harder for him to say that, given the brand he has built up. And at least some of his supporters would leave him, either because they believe in free speech or because they believe in the alleged opinions of Young Nigel. It's not entirely fair to blame Adult Nige for the alleged sins of Young Nige, but since when has politics been fair?
    Yes, it's tricky for Farage. He has to persuade people that he's entirely changed from that kind of behaviour, rather than a brilliantly disguised racist and anti-Semite. The correct and right thing to do is assume he's the former - but you wouldn't want to bet on it, would you?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,053
    Wacky Zacky wants to spend, spend, spend

    He will raise the money from under-taxed billionaires

    Britain’s billionaires have a combined (high-) estimated wealth of about £800bn

    I’m pretty sure that’s less than a decade of our current overspend, if you can turn all of their wealth into tax money

    This isn’t serious policy; it’s a story for believers
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,389

    eek said:

    Also worth emphasizing that a lot of Gerrymandering has been done on the basis that Hispanic voters tend Republican. That Gerrymandering is problematic if that logic falls apart

    That would be so funny.

    GOP deserve to be out of office for two generations at least.
    Whilst that would be just, I'm not sure the current Republican leadership are in a position to say "hey ho, we had a good run and probably deserve what's coming".

    That trying to avoid the inevitable will just make the retribution worse is only partially relevant, because the retribution will be on a different generation of red-rosetted politicians.

    (Why did the Latino vote swing so hard towards Trump last time? Long term factors, or did they just not like Harris?)
    The biggest reason is - I think - simple economics. Hispanic voters tend to be poorer, and to be more likely to live paycheck-to-paycheck. That's a really bad place to be if inflation spikes up.

    And inflation spiked on Biden's watch, and the Democrats took the blame.

    (To which I would add that Harris/Waltz was a combination designed almost entirely to not speak to Hispanics. Now, was that an issue as big as economics? Nope. But it didn't help.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    edited 6:04PM

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
    It wasn't 'not fuming,' it was denying Russian involvement while hinting the British government had carried out the operation itself.

    Which was a totally insane position to adopt, and along with the increasingly damaging revelations about his long history of antisemitic behaviour did a great deal to explode the nice guy image he had been carefully building up.
    Your memory is better than mine. Must be my age!

    I still got a soft 'political' for Corbyn, though, I don't think he's seriously anti-semitic. Remember, Arabs are Semitic.
    Corbyn's problem, I think, was that he never paused and asked himself at the time - 'hang on, is it wise to associate with these rather revolting people just because I dislike their enemies?'

    (This could also apply to his associating with the IRA, for example.)

    I think he might still have got away with that - albeit it's not a great look for a political leader to admit poor judgement - if it hadn't been for his extraordinary and cack-handed attempts to cover it up. For example, when that photograph of him emerged laying a wreath to the perpetrators of the Munich massacre, his bizarre explanation that he was 'present, but not involved' made him look not only like an idiot (which was past praying for) but a liar and a coward as well.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,795
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If those 18-year old allegations by several other pupils were pursued, Farage could actually conceivably be prosecuted for historical hate crimes.

    Is that possible?
    I don’t think we have statute of limitations in the U.K.

    Of course if it went to trial it’s a risk. If he was found not guilty he’d be even more insufferable
    Not a *single* one, no. Although plenty of time limits

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limitation_periods_in_the_United_Kingdom
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,364
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
    The obvious response was to pull out of the World Cup. Not sure why we didn't.
    I think I have an idea why ?

    💰💰💰💰
    Are you suggesting it brought little net benefit?
    Well it didn’t come home !!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,389
    edited 6:04PM

    There are many different Spanish-speaking communities in the USA, including Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans and Native Americans. It's a mistake to view them all as 'the same'.

    Sure: but pretty much all those groups (as well as African Americans) swung away from the Democrats hard, while white voters actually swung towards them very slightly.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,364

    Wacky Zacky wants to spend, spend, spend

    He will raise the money from under-taxed billionaires

    Britain’s billionaires have a combined (high-) estimated wealth of about £800bn

    I’m pretty sure that’s less than a decade of our current overspend, if you can turn all of their wealth into tax money

    This isn’t serious policy; it’s a story for believers

    We have fewer billionaires than New York. Something like 115

    It’s insane but it’s popular and cuts through with his target audience
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,446
    edited 6:06PM
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
    It wasn't 'not fuming,' it was denying Russian involvement while hinting the British government had carried out the operation itself.

    Which was a totally insane position to adopt, and along with the increasingly damaging revelations about his long history of antisemitic behaviour did a great deal to explode the nice guy image he had been carefully building up.
    Your memory is better than mine. Must be my age!

    I still got a soft 'political' for Corbyn, though, I don't think he's seriously anti-semitic. Remember, Arabs are Semitic.
    Corbyn's problem, I think, was that he never paused and asked himself at the time - 'hang on, is it wise to associate with these rather revolting people just because I dislike their enemies?'

    (This could also apply to his associating with the IRA, for example.)

    I think he might still have got away with that - albeit it's not a great look for a political leader to admit poor judgement - if it hadn't been for his extraordinary and cack-handed attempts to cover it up. For example, when that photograph of him emerged laying a wreath to the perpetrators of the Munich massacre, his bizarre explanation that he was 'present, but not involved' made him look not only like an idiot (which was past praying for) but a liar and a coward as well.
    Damn, you changed it.
    Corbynks was an excellent typo. It should be his new nickname
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
    It wasn't 'not fuming,' it was denying Russian involvement while hinting the British government had carried out the operation itself.

    Which was a totally insane position to adopt, and along with the increasingly damaging revelations about his long history of antisemitic behaviour did a great deal to explode the nice guy image he had been carefully building up.
    Your memory is better than mine. Must be my age!

    I still got a soft 'political' for Corbyn, though, I don't think he's seriously anti-semitic. Remember, Arabs are Semitic.
    Corbyn's problem, I think, was that he never paused and asked himself at the time - 'hang on, is it wise to associate with these rather revolting people just because I dislike their enemies?'

    (This could also apply to his associating with the IRA, for example.)

    I think he might still have got away with that - albeit it's not a great look for a political leader to admit poor judgement - if it hadn't been for his extraordinary and cack-handed attempts to cover it up. For example, when that photograph of him emerged laying a wreath to the perpetrators of the Munich massacre, his bizarre explanation that he was 'present, but not involved' made him look not only like an idiot (which was past praying for) but a liar and a coward as well.
    Damn, you changed it.
    Corbynks was an excellent typo.
    Ja, Ja.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,053
    @rcs1000

    I asked the other day but didn’t see if you’d responded

    Do you think that the copper crisis might hinder the growth of cheap solar power?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,237
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If those 18-year old allegations by several other pupils were pursued, Farage could actually conceivably be prosecuted for historical hate crimes.

    Is that possible?
    I don’t think we have statute of limitations in the U.K.

    Of course if it went to trial it’s a risk. If he was found not guilty he’d be even more insufferable
    If he were found guilty it would be several times worse for the aims of those behind the trial than an innocent verdict.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If those 18-year old allegations by several other pupils were pursued, Farage could actually conceivably be prosecuted for historical hate crimes.

    Is that possible?
    I don’t think we have statute of limitations in the U.K.

    Of course if it went to trial it’s a risk. If he was found not guilty he’d be even more insufferable
    Would that have been a crime at the time though? I think I'm right in saying the relevant laws only date from Blair's era?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,883
    edited 6:18PM
    If he were prosecuted on the basis of Jewish testimonies, he might be tempted to turn it into a slyly implied, low-wattage Mein Kampf moment, so in the currently toxic political atmosophere that definitely is a consideration, too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    edited 6:14PM

    Wacky Zacky wants to spend, spend, spend

    He will raise the money from under-taxed billionaires

    Britain’s billionaires have a combined (high-) estimated wealth of about £800bn

    I’m pretty sure that’s less than a decade of our current overspend, if you can turn all of their wealth into tax money

    This isn’t serious policy; it’s a story for believers

    Wacky Zacky spending money like he's on the wacky baccy?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,389
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    WTF ?

    Nearly half of sexually active young people in UK have experienced strangulation, study shows
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/nov/18/sexually-active-young-people-uk-choking-strangulation-sex

    Not half of young people but a very significant proportion of young women. Women - the word which no-one wants to use in case it makes men feel bad even though its use would be factually accurate.

    And what's with the WTF anyway.

    If men had listened to what women, including those pesky feminists, have been saying for some time they would know that -
    (a) this has been going on for a while
    (b) it is largely fuelled by porn
    (c) some sex education in schools has emphasised the importance of getting consent before seeking to choke someone during sex, which rather misses the point I feel. There is no safe way of choking someone. It is associated with a range of health risks. A lot of women do not like it but feel they ought to go along with it.
    (d) Non-fatal strangulation or choking has been a criminal offence since 2022.
    (e) Strangulation is the second most common method of killing women by men.
    (f) It has been announced this month that pornography showing strangulation is to become a criminal offence with tech companies placed under an obligation to prevent users accessing such material.
    I was aware of the practice, as it's been reported (fairly regularly) before.
    It was the sheer numbers which surprised me.
    Indeed. One couldn't miss it in the Graun (which might, in seriousness, possibly have something to do with why some of us haven't come across it). Though after the first read or two I shuddered at the headline and moved quickly on.

    Never forgotten a colleague of mine making a joke about oranges back in the post-glacial era and having to have it explained to me, either.
    On the subject of normalising abuse of women.

    This is pretty disgusting behavior to Jennifer Jacobs. Why does the rest of the media act like nothing shocking just happened?
    https://x.com/neeratanden/status/1990799945612603887
    Oh, the normalization of bad behaviour is incredibly dangerous.

    I mean, just look at Megyn Kelly.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,587

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    As a result of the investigation, we now know it was the Russian Secret Services that commissioned the blast of the Polish railway and recruited two Ukrainians to do it. We also know the identities of the perpetrators who immediately fled Poland for Belarus.
    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1990818892491395549

    The most dangerous thing Europe has done over the last decade is let Russia do stuff like this without a response. Now we have no idea where the line will be drawn, and so the risk of miscalculation and escalation is much higher.

    I'm fed up with our timorous leaders. This sabotage is a direct result of us doing nothing about the repeated intrusions into NATO airspace. Next it will be a few metres of Estonia.
    I don't recollect that we did much about the Salisbury 'tourists'.
    Wasn't much, IIRC, we could have done. Those responsible had b******d off out of the country well before anything was found. All we could do was fume impotently and, IIRC blame Jeremy Corbyn for not fuming similarly.
    It wasn't 'not fuming,' it was denying Russian involvement while hinting the British government had carried out the operation itself.

    Which was a totally insane position to adopt, and along with the increasingly damaging revelations about his long history of antisemitic behaviour did a great deal to explode the nice guy image he had been carefully building up.
    Your memory is better than mine. Must be my age!

    I've still got a soft 'political' spot for Corbyn, though, I don't think he's seriously anti-semitic. Remember, Arabs are Semitic.
    “The Arabs are Semitic, so I can’t be anti-Semitic” excuse is used by some very, very anti-Semitic people in the Middle East. The kind of people who advocate the Blood Libel and try and sell copies of the Protocols of the Elders if Zion.

    It’s a tell - like having lots of “88” decorating stuff. Or discussing IQ and black people.

    It also ignores the origin of the term - the original anti-semites in Germany called themselves “anti-semites”.

    All in all, not an argument I’d use.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,959
    FF43 said:

    Afternoon all.

    Grim stuff coming out about the 17-year old Farage. Waiting to find black and Asian pupils alone to intimidate them, regular antisemitic bullying, and Nazi salutes. Not a mild issue, whether 17 years old or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2025/nov/18/deeply-shocking-nigel-farage-faces-fresh-claims-of-racism-and-antisemitism-at-school

    I don't think sins of adolescence should be visited on the same people when adults. The problem for Farage, it's not clear he's changed his true nature.
    I agree the sins of the adolescence may not be relevant, but the tendencies learned are certainly worth challenging.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,391

    Wacky Zacky wants to spend, spend, spend

    He will raise the money from under-taxed billionaires

    Britain’s billionaires have a combined (high-) estimated wealth of about £800bn

    I’m pretty sure that’s less than a decade of our current overspend, if you can turn all of their wealth into tax money

    This isn’t serious policy; it’s a story for believers

    Sounds good for my business anyway. Dubai’s going to be booming next year!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,389

    I find it neither surprising, nor particularly newsworthy, that Farage was a bit of a right-wing shit when he was a kid. Rather, I'd be surprised if he weren't, given his adult trajectory.

    As a line of attack on him, however, I think dredging this stuff up from 40+ years ago is a complete waste of time.

    I would say, yes and no. There's being a right-wing shit, and then there's allegedly regularly walking up and down in classrooms aged 18 doing Nazi salutes and doing gas chamber noises to Jewish pupils. amongst all the other stuff described there.
    Come on; if that was disqualifying behaviour we'd have to ban half the posters on here.

    Actually... maybe it would just be half the usernames. Still.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,085
    Sandpit said:

    Wacky Zacky wants to spend, spend, spend

    He will raise the money from under-taxed billionaires

    Britain’s billionaires have a combined (high-) estimated wealth of about £800bn

    I’m pretty sure that’s less than a decade of our current overspend, if you can turn all of their wealth into tax money

    This isn’t serious policy; it’s a story for believers

    Sounds good for my business anyway. Dubai’s going to be booming next year!
    Are the Russians going to be undertaking railway engineering works?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,388

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If those 18-year old allegations by several other pupils were pursued, Farage could actually conceivably be prosecuted for historical hate crimes.

    Is that possible?
    I don’t think we have statute of limitations in the U.K.

    Of course if it went to trial it’s a risk. If he was found not guilty he’d be even more insufferable
    If he were found guilty it would be several times worse for the aims of those behind the trial than an innocent verdict.
    #FRITLF for the day
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