Never go anywhere "family-orientated" on a bank holiday Monday with kids.
I should now be working. I'm actually having a stiff drink.
We’ve had a nice walk in the local woods and I bumped into an old colleague and had a chat. We spent the rest of the day inside. A family orientated bank holiday is my idea of Hell.
Now retired, as I said earlier, I hate bank holidays.
My wife and I agreed it would have been easier to go to work today, and we've now got a week's worth of deliverables to cram into four days. Which bank holidays do nothing to change.
Fun.
My new firm is open on bank holidays so I have been working today as normal. It’s nice to be able to get through the inbox a bit.
Alas, we had the two little terrors to deal with and no childcare. Impossible to do anything.
We are thinking of punting out our mortgage by another 5 years to lower the repayments just so we can afford a live in lodger or some form of "au pair".
This is killing us.
It's worth it, tho
The other day I had to collect my eldest from St Andrews Uni and bring her back to London, on her 19th birthday, after her first year at uni. I had to drive all the way up and all the way back, on my own (she doesn't drive). Took 3 knackering days
ANYWAY we had a lot of time to chat. It was weirdly great. And at one point she turned to me and said
"I really like St Andrews. I've made a lot of friends. I am happy there, Dad"
The sense of relief and gladness was almost euphoric. She is launched on the world, she is finding hserself, she is happy. That's all you can ever possibly want. Happy kids
I've long thought the questioner who asks whether kids are 'worth it' makes a category error.
Life with kids and life without kids simply aren't comparable. They exist on different scales of value.
(It is possible that this is simply me deluding myself that what I have given up for a 5 year old and a 2 year old is worth it!)
Maybe that's why some have compared it to Brexit. They are two different routes and in the end so different and life changing, no sensible comparison can be made between life with kids and life without, ditto the UK with Brexit, or the UK with no Brexit
That said, most people I know who've had kids do believe it is very much worth it, in the end (but this may be confirmation bias). And there is a definite regret discernible in my friends who have not had kids. A couple of them talk about it, and it is painful for them
I agree - I would think that you would have to be a true nihilist not to regret not having kids. But on the other hand it'd be pretty hard to admit as a parent it wasn't worth it - it sends a rather sinister message to your kids.
Derek Parfit has (as always) something useful to say here - he was deeply skeptical of the idea that our identities persist over time. So he'd argue that you are simply a different person to who you would have been without being a parent, and you are also a different person to the one who made the decision to have kids, and you therefore can't really say that much about what that other person would be like or how happy they would be childless.
ETA the Brexit analogy is rather good, especially as both sides probably went into the vote with no real clue what they were signing up for.
Christ. That sounds very much like a terror attack, or at least an attempt at mass murder - it sounds deliberate and determined. This wasn't some drunk footie fan taking a wrong turning - IF that report is reliable
Christ. That sounds very much like a terror attack, or at least an attempt at mass murder - it sounds deliberate and determined. This wasn't some drunk footie fan taking a wrong turning - IF that report is reliable
In the short term our government will creak on, there’ll be budget day rabbits pulled from hats, and we’ll look at the minutiae of who is a winner or a loser on budget day. But by 2030 (probably made even worse by Net Zero promises) entitlements, health spending and other demand-led services will have grown from around 40% of the budget to over 50%. And it still won’t be enough. There will still be sorry tales of living on benefits, the NHS will still have waiting lists and mismanagement, and less ‘important’ services will have been cut to the bone. Charities, NGOs and assorted campaigners will still use misfortune as a lever to get politicians to promise more funding. And nobody will look at the government saying ‘it has no clothes on’. https://www.viewfromcullingworth.com/p/we-cant-afford-the-government?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=4bs8h&triedRedirect=true
Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.
However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE
The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
I think you are right.
Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?
So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.
1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist 2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy
These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.
So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.
Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.
Boris coming back would be the end of Britain as a serious country.
Britain is a serious country?
Well yes quite. We are falling well behind now. Bucharest in Romania is as rich as Yorkshire now. Take London and the SE away and we are basically eastern european standards of living
Yet there are thousands of eastern Europeans who live in Yorkshire and near zero Yorkshiremen who live in eastern Europe.
Not to mention that London has a lower standard of living than Yorkshire:
Do the figures for Romania include the bribes you have to routinely pay to get things to happen. Source: a family member's Romanian girlfriend , an NHS nurse.
Had a trial with a Romanian who was driving a rather flash BMW with no obvious source of income who picks up a drunk 14 year old and was found to have raped her. I am not persuaded we have got close to the extent of his wrong doing.
Another one from the ‘I came into politics to do nice stuff and not take difficult decisions’
Get onto the Bank of England. Fire up the printer.
We have had seventeen years of difficult decisions and it always seemed to be "take money from poor people and working people and don't tax the rich or pensioners". Can we stop making difficult decisions please?
As difficult as earlier decisions might have seemed, I doubt enough truly difficult ones were in fact taken. I think we're still 5-10 years away from the public realising how bad the situation is, but it's not guaranteed even then - politicians sure aren't going to consistently push the message, as they won't win elections that way.
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
Farage did in Southport when quoting Andrew Tate's X account. Unfortunately he was wrong.
Did he? What did he say?
That the perp was a Syrian (I believe) asylum seeker. Details he got from Andrew Tate's X account, which turned out to be bollocks.
Wasn't Farage bellyaching after Southport that the police weren't informing the public of the suspect's nationality?
I thought he said something along the lines of “Are we being told the whole truth? Was this person known to the security services?”. I didn’t know he actually alleged the race (or country if he said ‘Syrian’), never seen that
Turns out we weren’t being told the whole truth and the person was known to security services
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They certainly did not after Southport, did they?
Trying to forestall the far-right stoking riots, I would guess. Can't say I blame them after Southport.
Edit:
"Police confirm 53-year-old 'white British man' has been arrested Merseyside police has released a new statement which confirms the suspect to be a “53-year-old white British man from the Liverpool area”
Christ. That sounds very much like a terror attack, or at least an attempt at mass murder - it sounds deliberate and determined. This wasn't some drunk footie fan taking a wrong turning - IF that report is reliable
Disgruntled Everton fan?
Very poor taste Sunil.
Has it been ruled out?
You've used an apparent tragedy to make an attempt at humour.
Probably one best forgotten quickly - we all make faux pas, I certainly do.
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
Farage did in Southport when quoting Andrew Tate's X account. Unfortunately he was wrong.
Did he? What did he say?
That the perp was a Syrian (I believe) asylum seeker. Details he got from Andrew Tate's X account, which turned out to be bollocks.
Wasn't Farage bellyaching after Southport that the police weren't informing the public of the suspect's nationality?
Farage was a fucking disgrace on that. We saw what he is.
I see today that a Syrian asylum seeker stopped an attack by a German woman on multiple people in a train carriage there. A lesson not to prejudge people.
Never go anywhere "family-orientated" on a bank holiday Monday with kids.
I should now be working. I'm actually having a stiff drink.
We’ve had a nice walk in the local woods and I bumped into an old colleague and had a chat. We spent the rest of the day inside. A family orientated bank holiday is my idea of Hell.
Now retired, as I said earlier, I hate bank holidays.
My wife and I agreed it would have been easier to go to work today, and we've now got a week's worth of deliverables to cram into four days. Which bank holidays do nothing to change.
Fun.
My new firm is open on bank holidays so I have been working today as normal. It’s nice to be able to get through the inbox a bit.
Alas, we had the two little terrors to deal with and no childcare. Impossible to do anything.
We are thinking of punting out our mortgage by another 5 years to lower the repayments just so we can afford a live in lodger or some form of "au pair".
This is killing us.
Kids are hard work! And yet I was being reassured earlier today on this very forum (not by you!) that poor people would be encouraged to have more kids for benefits. Kids bills not covered by UC and are as you point out a bit of hard work
You think the folk who churn out kids to claim the benefits actually spend any time bothering to take care of them?
You're all not going to believe me but I promise you this is true...... Chatting whilst out today to a vague/not well known acquaintance at an event and politics came up via some lame joke I told about the current state of the Tories. I've no idea this guys allegiances but he jumped in, unbidden, with 'Boris back. That's what I want to see' I'm half expecting to find out someone here paid him to say it to me!
Can't say I'm surprised. The idea of Boris is still attractive, and everyone likes it at first. The catch is the Max Hastings (?) point- sooner or later he betrays everyone and everyone eventually regrets dealing with him. Unfortunately, for all the gifts the good fairy gave him, the bad fairy made him a selfish lying shit; he can't help himself.
It's not difficult to see that some people haven't reached that betrayal point yet. It's an individual thing. But I suspect we're well past the tipping point.
When Boris was PM I had a heated discussion about him with some of his admirers. I was outnumbered and in the end cooler heads present suggested we put it aside and talk about something else. But those admirers have now moved on to Reform and are contemptuous of Boris. Yes, there are probably still some in the Boris zone, but it's emptying and I doubt those who leave will ever return.
There'll always be a market for Boris's kind of feel-good, Panglossian spin on modern Britain, and what better figurehead for it than Mr Eponymous Wave himself?
His former admirers may have deserted him, but he can find new supporters among the metropolitan Labour voters who are so disenchanted with Starmer's Reform act.
The voters don’t want a feel good guy any more. They want something more like General Pinochet
Pussy Pinochets not enough, Papa Doc incoming. It's the Last Days of Rome again in the West. We will be electing absolute fruitcake psychopaths in short order.
Why the displacement? Why say “We will be electing…” when what you mean is “I want to elect…”?
Christ. That sounds very much like a terror attack, or at least an attempt at mass murder - it sounds deliberate and determined. This wasn't some drunk footie fan taking a wrong turning - IF that report is reliable
Disgruntled Everton fan?
Very poor taste Sunil.
Has it been ruled out?
You've used an apparent tragedy to make an attempt at humour.
Probably one best forgotten quickly - we all make faux pas, I certainly do.
Tragic, indeed, horriric events, are used as fodder for humour all the time, there's nothing inherently wrong with seeking to do so, in fact for many it helps process tragedy - but one also cannot object too much if getting a lot of blowback for getting the timing wrong.
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
Farage did in Southport when quoting Andrew Tate's X account. Unfortunately he was wrong.
Did he? What did he say?
That the perp was a Syrian (I believe) asylum seeker. Details he got from Andrew Tate's X account, which turned out to be bollocks.
Wasn't Farage bellyaching after Southport that the police weren't informing the public of the suspect's nationality?
I thought he said something along the lines of “Are we being told the whole truth? Was this person known to the security services?”. I didn’t know he actually alleged the race (or country if he said ‘Syrian’), never seen that
Turns out we weren’t being told the whole truth and the person was known to security services
Never go anywhere "family-orientated" on a bank holiday Monday with kids.
I should now be working. I'm actually having a stiff drink.
We’ve had a nice walk in the local woods and I bumped into an old colleague and had a chat. We spent the rest of the day inside. A family orientated bank holiday is my idea of Hell.
Now retired, as I said earlier, I hate bank holidays.
My wife and I agreed it would have been easier to go to work today, and we've now got a week's worth of deliverables to cram into four days. Which bank holidays do nothing to change.
Fun.
My new firm is open on bank holidays so I have been working today as normal. It’s nice to be able to get through the inbox a bit.
Alas, we had the two little terrors to deal with and no childcare. Impossible to do anything.
We are thinking of punting out our mortgage by another 5 years to lower the repayments just so we can afford a live in lodger or some form of "au pair".
This is killing us.
Kids are hard work! And yet I was being reassured earlier today on this very forum (not by you!) that poor people would be encouraged to have more kids for benefits. Kids bills not covered by UC and are as you point out a bit of hard work
You think the folk who churn out kids to claim the benefits actually spend any time bothering to take care of them?
You know any of those 'folk' personally or have you just read about them on Facebook?
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
Farage did in Southport when quoting Andrew Tate's X account. Unfortunately he was wrong.
Did he? What did he say?
That the perp was a Syrian (I believe) asylum seeker. Details he got from Andrew Tate's X account, which turned out to be bollocks.
Wasn't Farage bellyaching after Southport that the police weren't informing the public of the suspect's nationality?
I thought he said something along the lines of “Are we being told the whole truth? Was this person known to the security services?”. I didn’t know he actually alleged the race (or country if he said ‘Syrian’), never seen that
Turns out we weren’t being told the whole truth and the person was known to security services
Another one from the ‘I came into politics to do nice stuff and not take difficult decisions’
Get onto the Bank of England. Fire up the printer.
We have had seventeen years of difficult decisions and it always seemed to be "take money from poor people and working people and don't tax the rich or pensioners". Can we stop making difficult decisions please?
Let’s make easy decisions, fire up the printer, give everyone what they want and live with the consequences.
These so called UC/PIP benefits cuts sees the rise in benefits over this Parliament increase by circa 26 billion instead of 33 Billion. It’s slowing the rate of growth.
Getting rid of the WFA is the right decision.
Reforming the triple lock would be the right decision, reforming care costs is something needed that has been kicked down the road.
Due to thresholds being frozen more pensioners are paying tax and the change to inheritance rules on SIPPs, rightly, penalises wealthy pensioners using them as a vehicle to transfer wealth.
They got the WASPE decision right, will they fold on that one ?
Since Covid there has been a massive spike in people on out of work benefits. 25% of Brummies for example. How is that sustainable ? Who pays for it ?
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
Farage did in Southport when quoting Andrew Tate's X account. Unfortunately he was wrong.
Did he? What did he say?
That the perp was a Syrian (I believe) asylum seeker. Details he got from Andrew Tate's X account, which turned out to be bollocks.
Wasn't Farage bellyaching after Southport that the police weren't informing the public of the suspect's nationality?
I thought he said something along the lines of “Are we being told the whole truth? Was this person known to the security services?”. I didn’t know he actually alleged the race (or country if he said ‘Syrian’), never seen that
Turns out we weren’t being told the whole truth and the person was known to security services
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
Farage did in Southport when quoting Andrew Tate's X account. Unfortunately he was wrong.
I don't think he did actually.
Farage later back pedalled and blamed Tate for misleading him (Farage) with the asylum seeker angle. Farage might not have directly referenced Syria which I believe Tate did. It was very much a "join the dots" post from Farage
Actually in defence of @Sunil_Prasannan given the ID of the alleged perp, 53 year old White man, it is not entirely impossible that this really IS some crazed Evertonian, driven mad by Liverpool's success
People get violently passionate about football, we all know that. People die in football fights all the time - they get stabbed and the like. This could - however impossible it seems - be one step up from that
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
People who say things are two tier aren’t going to be feeling like they were wrong are they? I don’t use the term, but specifying ‘white British’ so early will only rile them
Never go anywhere "family-orientated" on a bank holiday Monday with kids.
I should now be working. I'm actually having a stiff drink.
We’ve had a nice walk in the local woods and I bumped into an old colleague and had a chat. We spent the rest of the day inside. A family orientated bank holiday is my idea of Hell.
Now retired, as I said earlier, I hate bank holidays.
My wife and I agreed it would have been easier to go to work today, and we've now got a week's worth of deliverables to cram into four days. Which bank holidays do nothing to change.
Fun.
My new firm is open on bank holidays so I have been working today as normal. It’s nice to be able to get through the inbox a bit.
Alas, we had the two little terrors to deal with and no childcare. Impossible to do anything.
We are thinking of punting out our mortgage by another 5 years to lower the repayments just so we can afford a live in lodger or some form of "au pair".
This is killing us.
Kids are hard work! And yet I was being reassured earlier today on this very forum (not by you!) that poor people would be encouraged to have more kids for benefits. Kids bills not covered by UC and are as you point out a bit of hard work
You think the folk who churn out kids to claim the benefits actually spend any time bothering to take care of them?
You know any of those 'folk' personally or have you just read about them on Facebook?
I have seen at least one social services file where a young person made a comment about getting a baby so they could get a house for example, but even if such people do exist the proportions surely are not anywhere near what people think. Unfortunately that doesn't help much since there will always been some amount of abuse in any system, that cannot be denied, which means there will always be some focus for that.
Apologies if I caused offence with my attempt at humour, it was uncalled for given the circumstances.
So, what do we think? A white British male, 53, from Liverpool, would best fit which profile:
An Islamist nutter? A Far Right nutter? Some other kind of nutter?
Speculation is pointless, and inappropriate
Road rage as a motive is not out of question looking at some of the videos.
I'm working on the basis I'm not Columbo. I'm not going to crack the case by speculating and probably at this stage all I want to know/hope is that the damage to life and limb is as limited as possible. The reasons will emerge in due course.
Never go anywhere "family-orientated" on a bank holiday Monday with kids.
I should now be working. I'm actually having a stiff drink.
We’ve had a nice walk in the local woods and I bumped into an old colleague and had a chat. We spent the rest of the day inside. A family orientated bank holiday is my idea of Hell.
Now retired, as I said earlier, I hate bank holidays.
My wife and I agreed it would have been easier to go to work today, and we've now got a week's worth of deliverables to cram into four days. Which bank holidays do nothing to change.
Fun.
My new firm is open on bank holidays so I have been working today as normal. It’s nice to be able to get through the inbox a bit.
Alas, we had the two little terrors to deal with and no childcare. Impossible to do anything.
We are thinking of punting out our mortgage by another 5 years to lower the repayments just so we can afford a live in lodger or some form of "au pair".
This is killing us.
Kids are hard work! And yet I was being reassured earlier today on this very forum (not by you!) that poor people would be encouraged to have more kids for benefits. Kids bills not covered by UC and are as you point out a bit of hard work
You think the folk who churn out kids to claim the benefits actually spend any time bothering to take care of them?
You know any of those 'folk' personally or have you just read about them on Facebook?
My wife was a teacher. She had to contend with shit from both generations.
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
I agree in principle, and would like it if we could expect consistent honesty in public life.
But we all know that if someone is not white (particularly if they look like they might be a Muslim) then announcing their skin colour, ethnicity etc will raise questions that probably can't be answered at that moment and which will lead many to jump to conclusions. Denying that fact doesn't help.
To be fair, even announcing they are white probably raises the question of far-right terror in some minds, so it's not entirely unproblematic.
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
People who say things are two tier aren’t going to be feeling like they were wrong are they? I don’t use the term, but specifying ‘white British’ so early will only rile them
The accusation in Southport was one of "we weren't given enough information".
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
Farage did in Southport when quoting Andrew Tate's X account. Unfortunately he was wrong.
Did he? What did he say?
That the perp was a Syrian (I believe) asylum seeker. Details he got from Andrew Tate's X account, which turned out to be bollocks.
Wasn't Farage bellyaching after Southport that the police weren't informing the public of the suspect's nationality?
I thought he said something along the lines of “Are we being told the whole truth? Was this person known to the security services?”. I didn’t know he actually alleged the race (or country if he said ‘Syrian’), never seen that
Turns out we weren’t being told the whole truth and the person was known to security services
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000) but once you factor in the French and German casualties at the Somme (at least another 15,000)* that would tip it back the other way.
It is worth remembering that by some accounts Towton in March 1461 was actually worse than either, although there's every reason to think the figures were somewhat exaggerated.
*Note casualties not fatalities, which were on a ratio of around 1:3 for the Somme but complicated to determine for Waterloo.
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
People who say things are two tier aren’t going to be feeling like they were wrong are they? I don’t use the term, but specifying ‘white British’ so early will only rile them
The accusation in Southport was we weren't given enough information.
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
Roughly 200,000 on both sides at Waterloo and just over a quarter were killed or injured. The figures I've seen are 55,000 killed and wounded - the Somme first day numbers are famously 60,000 (but that could be an overestimate).
In truth, Waterloo itself was small losses compared to the Battle of the Nations at Leipzig in 1813. The losses (admittedly over a four day period) were 150,000 killed and wounded on both sides.
The real bloodletting in WW1 wasn't the trench warfare but the early battles - the First Battle of the Marne in September 1914 saw over half a million casualties in six days. The French lost 250,000 killed or wounded, the Germans nearly 300,000.
Actually in defence of @Sunil_Prasannan given the ID of the alleged perp, 53 year old White man, it is not entirely impossible that this really IS some crazed Evertonian, driven mad by Liverpool's success
People get violently passionate about football, we all know that. People die in football fights all the time - they get stabbed and the like. This could - however impossible it seems - be one step up from that
It crossed my mind that this might be a Juventus fan, enraged about Heysel all those years ago.
The Boris fanbase thar is left I think is now more the politics-as-entertainmeht-crowd. Trump has these, but he also still has his believers.
I suspect Boris, and the diehards, think he’s far more popular than he actually is.
I agree. The Tories would be insane to rely on hypothetical polls. If Boris came back I reckon he'd be as unpopular as Starmer within three months. It would be like one of those ancient sitcoms unwisely revived - like Frasier. They never work
We all know his shtick, silly hair, bumbling manner, charming humour, annoying laziness, Greek. We've been there done that, maybe enjoyed it - and then paid the price. Also he is now, quite frankly, quite old. It's harder to pull off the funny man with mad hair stuff when the hair is all falling out
It would be an act of utter desperation and be seen as such, and rejected by voters
That's why he's a good London Mayor candidate. Let's test it, see if the magic is still there.
Cleverly is an 'OK' candidate. He's better than Susan. But he isn't a winning candidate. He has no chance of bringing over Reform voters, or non-political stay-at-home voters. Boris is a wild card. Boris going around in a Routemaster battlebus, reminding everyone how fun London was in his heyday, is dangerous to anyone. *Especially* if Labour select James Corden.
Never go anywhere "family-orientated" on a bank holiday Monday with kids.
I should now be working. I'm actually having a stiff drink.
We’ve had a nice walk in the local woods and I bumped into an old colleague and had a chat. We spent the rest of the day inside. A family orientated bank holiday is my idea of Hell.
Now retired, as I said earlier, I hate bank holidays.
My wife and I agreed it would have been easier to go to work today, and we've now got a week's worth of deliverables to cram into four days. Which bank holidays do nothing to change.
Fun.
My new firm is open on bank holidays so I have been working today as normal. It’s nice to be able to get through the inbox a bit.
Alas, we had the two little terrors to deal with and no childcare. Impossible to do anything.
We are thinking of punting out our mortgage by another 5 years to lower the repayments just so we can afford a live in lodger or some form of "au pair".
This is killing us.
Kids are hard work! And yet I was being reassured earlier today on this very forum (not by you!) that poor people would be encouraged to have more kids for benefits. Kids bills not covered by UC and are as you point out a bit of hard work
You think the folk who churn out kids to claim the benefits actually spend any time bothering to take care of them?
You know any of those 'folk' personally or have you just read about them on Facebook?
My wife was a teacher. She had to contend with shit from both generations.
Of course there are people who try to game the system (any process to catch them) but the vast majority of people on benefits are not 'churning out kids to claim more benefits'.
It would certainly not be a very effective strategy given the two-child benefit cap.
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
People who say things are two tier aren’t going to be feeling like they were wrong are they? I don’t use the term, but specifying ‘white British’ so early will only rile them
The accusation in Southport was one of "we weren't given enough information".
Actually in defence of @Sunil_Prasannan given the ID of the alleged perp, 53 year old White man, it is not entirely impossible that this really IS some crazed Evertonian, driven mad by Liverpool's success
People get violently passionate about football, we all know that. People die in football fights all the time - they get stabbed and the like. This could - however impossible it seems - be one step up from that
Thanks for the "intervention" @Leon, though I feel I must apologise for my comment.
I love Liverpool, especially its architectural and railway heritage. I was there less than a year ago, if only to knock off that teeny, weeny extension to Merseyrail to the new Headbolt Lane station from my Bouquet List. Merseyrail is of course notable for its third rail electrification, like the Southern Railway network in south London and southern England, though "interestingly" the Headbolt Lane extension was left unelectrified - a subset of the new Merseyrail trains have battery power available.
The Boris fanbase thar is left I think is now more the politics-as-entertainmeht-crowd. Trump has these, but he also still has his believers.
I suspect Boris, and the diehards, think he’s far more popular than he actually is.
I agree. The Tories would be insane to rely on hypothetical polls. If Boris came back I reckon he'd be as unpopular as Starmer within three months. It would be like one of those ancient sitcoms unwisely revived - like Frasier. They never work
We all know his shtick, silly hair, bumbling manner, charming humour, annoying laziness, Greek. We've been there done that, maybe enjoyed it - and then paid the price. Also he is now, quite frankly, quite old. It's harder to pull off the funny man with mad hair stuff when the hair is all falling out
It would be an act of utter desperation and be seen as such, and rejected by voters
That's why he's a good London Mayor candidate. Let's test it, see if the magic is still there.
Cleverly is an 'OK' candidate. He's better than Susan. But he isn't a winning candidate. He has no chance of bringing over Reform voters, or non-political stay-at-home voters. Boris is a wild card. Boris going around in a Routemaster battlebus, reminding everyone how fun London was in his heyday, is dangerous to anyone. *Especially* if Labour select James Corden.
Boris could probably take London on FPTP with the tide going out on Labour and Reform slightly less popular there than other areas. But it doesn't seem to be what he's after - if he wants the top job back he hasn't got time to do it via London
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
People who say things are two tier aren’t going to be feeling like they were wrong are they? I don’t use the term, but specifying ‘white British’ so early will only rile them
The accusation in Southport was one of "we weren't given enough information".
Never go anywhere "family-orientated" on a bank holiday Monday with kids.
I should now be working. I'm actually having a stiff drink.
We’ve had a nice walk in the local woods and I bumped into an old colleague and had a chat. We spent the rest of the day inside. A family orientated bank holiday is my idea of Hell.
Now retired, as I said earlier, I hate bank holidays.
My wife and I agreed it would have been easier to go to work today, and we've now got a week's worth of deliverables to cram into four days. Which bank holidays do nothing to change.
Fun.
My new firm is open on bank holidays so I have been working today as normal. It’s nice to be able to get through the inbox a bit.
Alas, we had the two little terrors to deal with and no childcare. Impossible to do anything.
We are thinking of punting out our mortgage by another 5 years to lower the repayments just so we can afford a live in lodger or some form of "au pair".
This is killing us.
Kids are hard work! And yet I was being reassured earlier today on this very forum (not by you!) that poor people would be encouraged to have more kids for benefits. Kids bills not covered by UC and are as you point out a bit of hard work
You think the folk who churn out kids to claim the benefits actually spend any time bothering to take care of them?
No, I think that the “folk who churn out kids to claim the benefits” are almost entirely fictional. Everyone angry about “scroungers” always has a story about someone having17 kids for the council mansion and free car. And it’s almost entirely fiction.
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000) but once you factor in the French and German casualties at the Somme (at least another 15,000)* that would tip it back the other way.
It is worth remembering that by some accounts Towton in March 1461 was actually worse than either, although there's every reason to think the figures were somewhat exaggerated.
*Note casualties not fatalities, which were on a ratio of around 1:3 for the Somme but complicated to determine for Waterloo.
I think because Waterloo is regarded as a win the perception around it is different to how we see the first day of the Somme. Which was markedly successful for the French and the right of the British attack, but that gets lost in the usual story.
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000) but once you factor in the French and German casualties at the Somme (at least another 15,000)* that would tip it back the other way.
It is worth remembering that by some accounts Towton in March 1461 was actually worse than either, although there's every reason to think the figures were somewhat exaggerated.
*Note casualties not fatalities, which were on a ratio of around 1:3 for the Somme but complicated to determine for Waterloo.
A battle in history with figures exaggerated? Scandalous.
Next you'll be telling me Herodotus was possibly a little out in estimating Xerxes had 5 million men* at his disposal.
*in fairness he showed his working in making the attempt and seems to question how they could have all been fed, glancing at my histories.
The Boris fanbase thar is left I think is now more the politics-as-entertainmeht-crowd. Trump has these, but he also still has his believers.
I suspect Boris, and the diehards, think he’s far more popular than he actually is.
I agree. The Tories would be insane to rely on hypothetical polls. If Boris came back I reckon he'd be as unpopular as Starmer within three months. It would be like one of those ancient sitcoms unwisely revived - like Frasier. They never work
We all know his shtick, silly hair, bumbling manner, charming humour, annoying laziness, Greek. We've been there done that, maybe enjoyed it - and then paid the price. Also he is now, quite frankly, quite old. It's harder to pull off the funny man with mad hair stuff when the hair is all falling out
It would be an act of utter desperation and be seen as such, and rejected by voters
That's why he's a good London Mayor candidate. Let's test it, see if the magic is still there.
Cleverly is an 'OK' candidate. He's better than Susan. But he isn't a winning candidate. He has no chance of bringing over Reform voters, or non-political stay-at-home voters. Boris is a wild card. Boris going around in a Routemaster battlebus, reminding everyone how fun London was in his heyday, is dangerous to anyone. *Especially* if Labour select James Corden.
I reckon Cleverly has a decent chance at London. I agree Boris has an even better chance. He was a good mayor and it suits his persona. I'd very gladly vote for him as mayor, even tho I now despise the Tories
But it's quite a step down from PM and he has a vast ego
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
People who say things are two tier aren’t going to be feeling like they were wrong are they? I don’t use the term, but specifying ‘white British’ so early will only rile them
The accusation in Southport was one of "we weren't given enough information".
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000)
Yes, that's what I meant. And all achieved within less than three square miles with sword, sabre, bayonet, ball and shot; 18th and 19th Century weapons. And arguably worse than a machine gun bullet since such carnage would have been at close quarters, personal, brutal, and highly violent.
"There is a close up video from just before the incident showing the driver (who through the window appears white) having an argument with football fans, it seems to escalate and they smash his back window in before he speeds into the crowd."
The Boris fanbase thar is left I think is now more the politics-as-entertainmeht-crowd. Trump has these, but he also still has his believers.
I suspect Boris, and the diehards, think he’s far more popular than he actually is.
I agree. The Tories would be insane to rely on hypothetical polls. If Boris came back I reckon he'd be as unpopular as Starmer within three months. It would be like one of those ancient sitcoms unwisely revived - like Frasier. They never work
We all know his shtick, silly hair, bumbling manner, charming humour, annoying laziness, Greek. We've been there done that, maybe enjoyed it - and then paid the price. Also he is now, quite frankly, quite old. It's harder to pull off the funny man with mad hair stuff when the hair is all falling out
It would be an act of utter desperation and be seen as such, and rejected by voters
That's why he's a good London Mayor candidate. Let's test it, see if the magic is still there.
Cleverly is an 'OK' candidate. He's better than Susan. But he isn't a winning candidate. He has no chance of bringing over Reform voters, or non-political stay-at-home voters. Boris is a wild card. Boris going around in a Routemaster battlebus, reminding everyone how fun London was in his heyday, is dangerous to anyone. *Especially* if Labour select James Corden.
I reckon Cleverly has a decent chance at London. I agree Boris has an even better chance. He was a good mayor and it suits his persona. I'd very gladly vote for him as mayor, even tho I now despise the Tories
But it's quite a step down from PM and he has a vast ego
Better gig than most ex-PMs, in terms of getting a profile and some level of influence and attention (which he probably prizes more than some others), for those that are not content to just cash in and sell themselves to the highest bidder (isn't Blair in thrall to some tech billionaire for his 'institute'?)
Apologies if I caused offence with my attempt at humour, it was uncalled for given the circumstances.
So, what do we think? A white British male, 53, from Liverpool, would best fit which profile:
An Islamist nutter? A Far Right nutter? Some other kind of nutter?
Speculation is pointless, and inappropriate
Road rage as a motive is not out of question looking at some of the videos.
You occasionally get people trying to push through cordons for marathons/cycling events, then react violently when people start blocking the car.
..and you can imagine they might panic and make the situation 10x worse if they are being attacked in the car... All magnified by plenty of alcohol and drugs.
(None of which is to condone or excuse the perpetrator if this proves to be the case.)
"There is a close up video from just before the incident showing the driver (who through the window appears white) having an argument with football fans, it seems to escalate and they smash his back window in before he speeds into the crowd."
Road rage?
Is that the one where he opens and shuts the car door ?
Actually in defence of @Sunil_Prasannan given the ID of the alleged perp, 53 year old White man, it is not entirely impossible that this really IS some crazed Evertonian, driven mad by Liverpool's success
People get violently passionate about football, we all know that. People die in football fights all the time - they get stabbed and the like. This could - however impossible it seems - be one step up from that
Thanks for the "intervention" @Leon, though I feel I must apologise for my comment.
I love Liverpool, especially its architectural and railway heritage. I was there less than a year ago, if only to knock off that teeny, weeny extension to Merseyrail to the new Headbolt Lane station from my Bouquet List. Merseyrail is of course notable for its third rail electrification, like the Southern Railway network in south London and southern England, though "interestingly" the Headbolt Lane extension was left unelectrified - a subset of the new Merseyrail trains have battery power available.
Sunil, I am sure that I am not the only one who thought of the same joke, but decided to keep it in my head.
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
People who say things are two tier aren’t going to be feeling like they were wrong are they? I don’t use the term, but specifying ‘white British’ so early will only rile them
The accusation in Southport was one of "we weren't given enough information".
Now you have been given definitive details by the police you are moaning that you didn't want those details if the suspect is white
Fine if the policy has changed but I doubt it has.
Exactly. If the new police policy is to always be as transparent as possible from the start - the person is this race, this age, this nationality, etc - then great. I applaud that. I genuinely believe it is the only way to calm things, and dispel the Two Tier accusations
But I have grave doubts they have actually made this change. The next time the ID of an alleged attacker doesn't suit the agenda, it will once again be "police have released no details, and asked people not to speculate at this difficult time" or "we cannot say anything as it might prejudice a trial" - ie the usual pack of lies
"There is a close up video from just before the incident showing the driver (who through the window appears white) having an argument with football fans, it seems to escalate and they smash his back window in before he speeds into the crowd."
Road rage?
If they smashed his window he might have been in fear of his life.
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000) but once you factor in the French and German casualties at the Somme (at least another 15,000)* that would tip it back the other way.
It is worth remembering that by some accounts Towton in March 1461 was actually worse than either, although there's every reason to think the figures were somewhat exaggerated.
*Note casualties not fatalities, which were on a ratio of around 1:3 for the Somme but complicated to determine for Waterloo.
A battle in history with figures exaggerated? Scandalous.
Next you'll be telling me Herodotus was possibly a little out in estimating Xerxes had 5 million men* at his disposal.
*in fairness he showed his working in making the attempt and seems to question how they could have all been fed, glancing at my histories.
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
People who say things are two tier aren’t going to be feeling like they were wrong are they? I don’t use the term, but specifying ‘white British’ so early will only rile them
The accusation in Southport was one of "we weren't given enough information".
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000) but once you factor in the French and German casualties at the Somme (at least another 15,000)* that would tip it back the other way.
It is worth remembering that by some accounts Towton in March 1461 was actually worse than either, although there's every reason to think the figures were somewhat exaggerated.
*Note casualties not fatalities, which were on a ratio of around 1:3 for the Somme but complicated to determine for Waterloo.
I think because Waterloo is regarded as a win the perception around it is different to how we see the first day of the Somme. Which was markedly successful for the French and the right of the British attack, but that gets lost in the usual story.
I suspect pretty much any WW1 battle, win or lose, would be tinged with the modern interpretation that the whole war was just pointlessly tragic in conception.
Whereas Waterloo would probably not be seen as 'in vain' for those who died in it, even if the conflict at its heart has little emotional resonance for people today.
Never go anywhere "family-orientated" on a bank holiday Monday with kids.
I should now be working. I'm actually having a stiff drink.
We’ve had a nice walk in the local woods and I bumped into an old colleague and had a chat. We spent the rest of the day inside. A family orientated bank holiday is my idea of Hell.
Now retired, as I said earlier, I hate bank holidays.
My wife and I agreed it would have been easier to go to work today, and we've now got a week's worth of deliverables to cram into four days. Which bank holidays do nothing to change.
Fun.
My new firm is open on bank holidays so I have been working today as normal. It’s nice to be able to get through the inbox a bit.
Alas, we had the two little terrors to deal with and no childcare. Impossible to do anything.
We are thinking of punting out our mortgage by another 5 years to lower the repayments just so we can afford a live in lodger or some form of "au pair".
This is killing us.
Kids are hard work! And yet I was being reassured earlier today on this very forum (not by you!) that poor people would be encouraged to have more kids for benefits. Kids bills not covered by UC and are as you point out a bit of hard work
You think the folk who churn out kids to claim the benefits actually spend any time bothering to take care of them?
No, I think that the “folk who churn out kids to claim the benefits” are almost entirely fictional. Everyone angry about “scroungers” always has a story about someone having17 kids for the council mansion and free car. And it’s almost entirely fiction.
I went to Uni with a bloke from Skelmsdale, a massive lefty, who reckoned everyone on his estate was doing it
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000) but once you factor in the French and German casualties at the Somme (at least another 15,000)* that would tip it back the other way.
It is worth remembering that by some accounts Towton in March 1461 was actually worse than either, although there's every reason to think the figures were somewhat exaggerated.
*Note casualties not fatalities, which were on a ratio of around 1:3 for the Somme but complicated to determine for Waterloo.
"There is a close up video from just before the incident showing the driver (who through the window appears white) having an argument with football fans, it seems to escalate and they smash his back window in before he speeds into the crowd."
Road rage?
Is that the one where he opens and shuts the car door ?
I didn't watch it myself. I tend to avoid these things.
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000) but once you factor in the French and German casualties at the Somme (at least another 15,000)* that would tip it back the other way.
It is worth remembering that by some accounts Towton in March 1461 was actually worse than either, although there's every reason to think the figures were somewhat exaggerated.
*Note casualties not fatalities, which were on a ratio of around 1:3 for the Somme but complicated to determine for Waterloo.
A battle in history with figures exaggerated? Scandalous.
Next you'll be telling me Herodotus was possibly a little out in estimating Xerxes had 5 million men* at his disposal.
*in fairness he showed his working in making the attempt and seems to question how they could have all been fed, glancing at my histories.
Unlike Zack Snyder?
IIRC the end of that movie shows that one character is telling the story to people about to fight a different battle, so it would make sense he played up some aspects.
It would make less sense that he'd include all the non-battle stuff the movie also showed.
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000)
Yes, that's what I meant. And all achieved within less than three square miles with sword, sabre, bayonet, ball and shot; 18th and 19th Century weapons. And arguably worse than a machine gun bullet since such carnage would have been at close quarters, personal, brutal, and highly violent.
Simply horrific.
Horrific indeed. Your initial post got me trawling wiki to improve my understanding a bit and I came across this:
Carabinier-à-Cheval cuirass holed by a cannonball at Waterloo, belonging to Antoine Fauveau
"There is a close up video from just before the incident showing the driver (who through the window appears white) having an argument with football fans, it seems to escalate and they smash his back window in before he speeds into the crowd."
Road rage?
Is that the one where he opens and shuts the car door ?
The Boris fanbase thar is left I think is now more the politics-as-entertainmeht-crowd. Trump has these, but he also still has his believers.
I suspect Boris, and the diehards, think he’s far more popular than he actually is.
I agree. The Tories would be insane to rely on hypothetical polls. If Boris came back I reckon he'd be as unpopular as Starmer within three months. It would be like one of those ancient sitcoms unwisely revived - like Frasier. They never work
We all know his shtick, silly hair, bumbling manner, charming humour, annoying laziness, Greek. We've been there done that, maybe enjoyed it - and then paid the price. Also he is now, quite frankly, quite old. It's harder to pull off the funny man with mad hair stuff when the hair is all falling out
It would be an act of utter desperation and be seen as such, and rejected by voters
That's why he's a good London Mayor candidate. Let's test it, see if the magic is still there.
Cleverly is an 'OK' candidate. He's better than Susan. But he isn't a winning candidate. He has no chance of bringing over Reform voters, or non-political stay-at-home voters. Boris is a wild card. Boris going around in a Routemaster battlebus, reminding everyone how fun London was in his heyday, is dangerous to anyone. *Especially* if Labour select James Corden.
Boris could probably take London on FPTP with the tide going out on Labour and Reform slightly less popular there than other areas. But it doesn't seem to be what he's after - if he wants the top job back he hasn't got time to do it via London
Yes, I know he isn't interested in London. And to me it seems a wasted opportunity somehow. Boris suits London. I just don't think he suits a parliamentary dagger fight with Nigel just now.
I also think even if he loses, if he loses pretty good (gets a big increase in the Tory vote and beats Reform out of sight), it doesn't really derail his parliamentary comeback. Whereas if he loses his by-election, he's not going to get another shot at the mayoralty.
"There is a close up video from just before the incident showing the driver (who through the window appears white) having an argument with football fans, it seems to escalate and they smash his back window in before he speeds into the crowd."
Road rage?
If they smashed his window he might have been in fear of his life.
Yes
And then he sped off and hit someone, and then realised - fuck, I am going to die here - so he sped on, hitting even more people. It might have been some small if violent argument that spiralled into mass tragedy, without intent
If so, perhaps that is some tiny consolation in the bleakness
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
I agree in principle, and would like it if we could expect consistent honesty in public life.
But we all know that if someone is not white (particularly if they look like they might be a Muslim) then announcing their skin colour, ethnicity etc will raise questions that probably can't be answered at that moment and which will lead many to jump to conclusions. Denying that fact doesn't help.
To be fair, even announcing they are white probably raises the question of far-right terror in some minds, so it's not entirely unproblematic.
The loudness of their shirt, and the exact built-up-ness of the area is also a factor, I hear.
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000)
Yes, that's what I meant. And all achieved within less than three square miles with sword, sabre, bayonet, ball and shot; 18th and 19th Century weapons. And arguably worse than a machine gun bullet since such carnage would have been at close quarters, personal, brutal, and highly violent.
Simply horrific.
Horrific indeed. Your initial post got me trawling wiki to improve my understanding a bit and I came across this:
Carabinier-à-Cheval cuirass holed by a cannonball at Waterloo, belonging to Antoine Fauveau
You're not surviving that.
How anyone made it through ancient battles (or just life in general) is beyond me.
We moan, and of course we are not going to compare ourselves to this part of the past, but we don't know how good we have it.
From a recommendaiton on here I read 'By sword and fire: cruelty and atrocity in medieval warfare', which was a bit of an eye opener.
I've not read some of the author's other works, such as 'Blood cries afar' and 'Kill them all', about the Albigensian Crusade.
"There is a close up video from just before the incident showing the driver (who through the window appears white) having an argument with football fans, it seems to escalate and they smash his back window in before he speeds into the crowd."
Road rage?
Is that the one where he opens and shuts the car door ?
I didn't watch it myself. I tend to avoid these things.
One tries to, I certainly don’t go looking for it, but Twitter is now just throwing them up, or was when I was last on there.
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000)
Yes, that's what I meant. And all achieved within less than three square miles with sword, sabre, bayonet, ball and shot; 18th and 19th Century weapons. And arguably worse than a machine gun bullet since such carnage would have been at close quarters, personal, brutal, and highly violent.
Simply horrific.
Horrific indeed. Your initial post got me trawling wiki to improve my understanding a bit and I came across this:
Carabinier-à-Cheval cuirass holed by a cannonball at Waterloo, belonging to Antoine Fauveau
You're not surviving that.
Almost entirely tangential but your pic made me think of the statues in Medellin in Colombia: one statue was bombed by Pablo Escobar so the artist donated a replica and both are on display in the square.
This has always stuck with me as a classy way to own your history. Perhaps something similar could be done with that nice Mr Colston?
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000)
Yes, that's what I meant. And all achieved within less than three square miles with sword, sabre, bayonet, ball and shot; 18th and 19th Century weapons. And arguably worse than a machine gun bullet since such carnage would have been at close quarters, personal, brutal, and highly violent.
Simply horrific.
Horrific indeed. Your initial post got me trawling wiki to improve my understanding a bit and I came across this:
Carabinier-à-Cheval cuirass holed by a cannonball at Waterloo, belonging to Antoine Fauveau
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000)
Yes, that's what I meant. And all achieved within less than three square miles with sword, sabre, bayonet, ball and shot; 18th and 19th Century weapons. And arguably worse than a machine gun bullet since such carnage would have been at close quarters, personal, brutal, and highly violent.
Simply horrific.
Horrific indeed. Your initial post got me trawling wiki to improve my understanding a bit and I came across this:
Carabinier-à-Cheval cuirass holed by a cannonball at Waterloo, belonging to Antoine Fauveau
"There is a close up video from just before the incident showing the driver (who through the window appears white) having an argument with football fans, it seems to escalate and they smash his back window in before he speeds into the crowd."
Road rage?
If they smashed his window he might have been in fear of his life.
In the video where he opens and closes his door, the rear window is intact. I suspect it got broken by the righteous mob when he was stopped. Shouldn’t speculate but road rage is almost certainly the cause and he’s fucked his next ten years or so.
The Boris fanbase thar is left I think is now more the politics-as-entertainmeht-crowd. Trump has these, but he also still has his believers.
I suspect Boris, and the diehards, think he’s far more popular than he actually is.
I agree. The Tories would be insane to rely on hypothetical polls. If Boris came back I reckon he'd be as unpopular as Starmer within three months. It would be like one of those ancient sitcoms unwisely revived - like Frasier. They never work
We all know his shtick, silly hair, bumbling manner, charming humour, annoying laziness, Greek. We've been there done that, maybe enjoyed it - and then paid the price. Also he is now, quite frankly, quite old. It's harder to pull off the funny man with mad hair stuff when the hair is all falling out
It would be an act of utter desperation and be seen as such, and rejected by voters
That's why he's a good London Mayor candidate. Let's test it, see if the magic is still there.
Cleverly is an 'OK' candidate. He's better than Susan. But he isn't a winning candidate. He has no chance of bringing over Reform voters, or non-political stay-at-home voters. Boris is a wild card. Boris going around in a Routemaster battlebus, reminding everyone how fun London was in his heyday, is dangerous to anyone. *Especially* if Labour select James Corden.
Boris could probably take London on FPTP with the tide going out on Labour and Reform slightly less popular there than other areas. But it doesn't seem to be what he's after - if he wants the top job back he hasn't got time to do it via London
Yes, I know he isn't interested in London. And to me it seems a wasted opportunity somehow. Boris suits London. I just don't think he suits a parliamentary dagger fight with Nigel just now.
I also think even if he loses, if he loses pretty good (gets a big increase in the Tory vote and beats Reform out of sight), it doesn't really derail his parliamentary comeback. Whereas if he loses his by-election, he's not going to get another shot at the mayoralty.
I mean London is the centre of any popularity he has left and it has some logic. Hall got within about 10%, probably that can be overhauled by a decent candidate. High 20s to 30% is likely to be enough on FPTP with where polling shows reform in London. Still wonder if he won't try the Hail Mary of leader from outside parliament though
Police confirming a white man has been arrested. Hmmm, do they always give the race of the arrested perpetrator?
They do, if White. If not, they urge the public not to speculate on the identity of the attacker.
In both instances, it's for reasons of "community relations".
In both instances, they probably have a point, no?
No, if the perpetrator is White, say it, if he is black, say, it if he Hispanic/Muslim/a Martian, say it. Honesty is the only method that doesn't rile people one way or the other
People who say things are two tier aren’t going to be feeling like they were wrong are they? I don’t use the term, but specifying ‘white British’ so early will only rile them
The accusation in Southport was one of "we weren't given enough information".
Now you have been given definitive details by the police you are moaning that you didn't want those details if the suspect is white
Fine if the policy has changed but I doubt it has.
After the Southport riots ( Farage Riots according to James O'Brexit) it would seem expedient to report ethnicity if that helped to avoid race riots.
Let’s wait until the next time it’s not a white male and see, shall we. I know where my money lies.
Do you not understand? If the police can cut Tommy Robinson fanbois off at the pass they might not set fire to Holiday Inns. I don't see a conspiracy, I see practicality.
The Boris fanbase thar is left I think is now more the politics-as-entertainmeht-crowd. Trump has these, but he also still has his believers.
I suspect Boris, and the diehards, think he’s far more popular than he actually is.
I agree. The Tories would be insane to rely on hypothetical polls. If Boris came back I reckon he'd be as unpopular as Starmer within three months. It would be like one of those ancient sitcoms unwisely revived - like Frasier. They never work
We all know his shtick, silly hair, bumbling manner, charming humour, annoying laziness, Greek. We've been there done that, maybe enjoyed it - and then paid the price. Also he is now, quite frankly, quite old. It's harder to pull off the funny man with mad hair stuff when the hair is all falling out
It would be an act of utter desperation and be seen as such, and rejected by voters
That's why he's a good London Mayor candidate. Let's test it, see if the magic is still there.
Cleverly is an 'OK' candidate. He's better than Susan. But he isn't a winning candidate. He has no chance of bringing over Reform voters, or non-political stay-at-home voters. Boris is a wild card. Boris going around in a Routemaster battlebus, reminding everyone how fun London was in his heyday, is dangerous to anyone. *Especially* if Labour select James Corden.
Boris could probably take London on FPTP with the tide going out on Labour and Reform slightly less popular there than other areas. But it doesn't seem to be what he's after - if he wants the top job back he hasn't got time to do it via London
Timings really aren't great. Next London Mayoral election isn't until 2028. In theory- though it seems unlikely- May 2028 is the earliest "not taking the piss" date for the next General Election.
Anyhoo- if Boris became Mayor again in 2028, he really can't ditch that for Parliament in the fifteen months that follow. And if he loses, even losing well, he is a Loser, and that doesn't help him.
(Which is the other thing. Boris's political gambles tend to be on sureish things. It's hard to see a Conservative candidate in London as one of those.)
The casualties were worse than the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Simply horrific.
Why isn't this more widely known?
I'm not quite sure that's accurate. There were more casualties at Waterloo than were suffered by the British Army on the first day of the Somme (around 60,000 against 57,000)
Yes, that's what I meant. And all achieved within less than three square miles with sword, sabre, bayonet, ball and shot; 18th and 19th Century weapons. And arguably worse than a machine gun bullet since such carnage would have been at close quarters, personal, brutal, and highly violent.
Simply horrific.
Horrific indeed. Your initial post got me trawling wiki to improve my understanding a bit and I came across this:
Carabinier-à-Cheval cuirass holed by a cannonball at Waterloo, belonging to Antoine Fauveau
You're not surviving that.
How anyone made it through ancient battles (or just life in general) is beyond me.
We moan, and of course we are not going to compare ourselves to this part of the past, but we don't know how good we have it.
From a recommendaiton on here I read 'By sword and fire: cruelty and atrocity in medieval warfare', which was a bit of an eye opener.
I've not read some of the author's other works, such as 'Blood cries afar' and 'Kill them all', about the Albigensian Crusade.
As much as I have read widely about wars and conflict, I find myself more drawn to the minutiae of everyday life. Simple things that we take for granted, such as fridges and freezers. How did people in Warminster in 1925 keep food? Back in medieval Warminster did everyone have really, really long days in midsummer? Did people keep,gardens with flowers back then? Or was it only ever useful plants?
Comments
Wasn't Farage bellyaching after Southport that the police weren't informing the public of the suspect's nationality?
Derek Parfit has (as always) something useful to say here - he was deeply skeptical of the idea that our identities persist over time. So he'd argue that you are simply a different person to who you would have been without being a parent, and you are also a different person to the one who made the decision to have kids, and you therefore can't really say that much about what that other person would be like or how happy they would be childless.
ETA the Brexit analogy is rather good, especially as both sides probably went into the vote with no real clue what they were signing up for.
In the short term our government will creak on, there’ll be budget day rabbits pulled from hats, and we’ll look at the minutiae of who is a winner or a loser on budget day. But by 2030 (probably made even worse by Net Zero promises) entitlements, health spending and other demand-led services will have grown from around 40% of the budget to over 50%. And it still won’t be enough. There will still be sorry tales of living on benefits, the NHS will still have waiting lists and mismanagement, and less ‘important’ services will have been cut to the bone. Charities, NGOs and assorted campaigners will still use misfortune as a lever to get politicians to promise more funding. And nobody will look at the government saying ‘it has no clothes on’.
https://www.viewfromcullingworth.com/p/we-cant-afford-the-government?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=4bs8h&triedRedirect=true
Turns out we weren’t being told the whole truth and the person was known to security services
Probably one best forgotten quickly - we all make faux pas, I certainly do.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/26/hamburg-knife-attack-syrian-refugee
Farage stoked the fire with falsehoods from Tate. Spin that however you wish.
“That the perp was a Syrian (I believe) asylum seeker”
He didn’t, you were wrong. Just admit your mistake and move on rather than having a go at me for being correct
So, what do we think? A white British male, 53, from Liverpool, would best fit which profile:
An Islamist nutter?
A Far Right nutter?
Some other kind of nutter?
These so called UC/PIP benefits cuts sees the rise in benefits over this Parliament increase by circa 26 billion instead of 33 Billion. It’s slowing the rate of growth.
Getting rid of the WFA is the right decision.
Reforming the triple lock would be the right decision, reforming care costs is something needed that has been kicked down the road.
Due to thresholds being frozen more pensioners are paying tax and the change to inheritance rules on SIPPs, rightly, penalises wealthy pensioners using them as a vehicle to transfer wealth.
They got the WASPE decision right, will they fold on that one ?
Since Covid there has been a massive spike in people on out of work benefits. 25% of Brummies for example. How is that sustainable ? Who pays for it ?
https://x.com/danbdennis/status/1925670863673696271?s=61
People get violently passionate about football, we all know that. People die in football fights all the time - they get stabbed and the like. This could - however impossible it seems - be one step up from that
The reasons will emerge in due course.
But we all know that if someone is not white (particularly if they look like they might be a Muslim) then announcing their skin colour, ethnicity etc will raise questions that probably can't be answered at that moment and which will lead many to jump to conclusions. Denying that fact doesn't help.
To be fair, even announcing they are white probably raises the question of far-right terror in some minds, so it's not entirely unproblematic.
https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-accused-of-being-tommy-robinson-in-a-suit-over-southport-stabbings-comments-13188129
Now you have been given definitive details by the police you are moaning that you didn't want those details if the suspect is white
It is worth remembering that by some accounts Towton in March 1461 was actually worse than either, although there's every reason to think the figures were somewhat exaggerated.
*Note casualties not fatalities, which were on a ratio of around 1:3 for the Somme but complicated to determine for Waterloo.
You made an incorrect statement, I corrected you. It happens, get over it and don’t start trolling me again because of it
In truth, Waterloo itself was small losses compared to the Battle of the Nations at Leipzig in 1813. The losses (admittedly over a four day period) were 150,000 killed and wounded on both sides.
The real bloodletting in WW1 wasn't the trench warfare but the early battles - the First Battle of the Marne in September 1914 saw over half a million casualties in six days. The French lost 250,000 killed or wounded, the Germans nearly 300,000.
Cleverly is an 'OK' candidate. He's better than Susan. But he isn't a winning candidate. He has no chance of bringing over Reform voters, or non-political stay-at-home voters. Boris is a wild card. Boris going around in a Routemaster battlebus, reminding everyone how fun London was in his heyday, is dangerous to anyone. *Especially* if Labour select James Corden.
Come to think of it most of us do on here.
It would certainly not be a very effective strategy given the two-child benefit cap.
I love Liverpool, especially its architectural and railway heritage. I was there less than a year ago, if only to knock off that teeny, weeny extension to Merseyrail to the new Headbolt Lane station from my Bouquet List. Merseyrail is of course notable for its third rail electrification, like the Southern Railway network in south London and southern England, though "interestingly" the Headbolt Lane extension was left unelectrified - a subset of the new Merseyrail trains have battery power available.
Next you'll be telling me Herodotus was possibly a little out in estimating Xerxes had 5 million men* at his disposal.
*in fairness he showed his working in making the attempt and seems to question how they could have all been fed, glancing at my histories.
But it's quite a step down from PM and he has a vast ego
Simply horrific.
"There is a close up video from just before the incident showing the driver (who through the window appears white) having an argument with football fans, it seems to escalate and they smash his back window in before he speeds into the crowd."
Road rage?
(None of which is to condone or excuse the perpetrator if this proves to be the case.)
And ,BTW, I yellow-penned Merseyrail last year.
But I have grave doubts they have actually made this change. The next time the ID of an alleged attacker doesn't suit the agenda, it will once again be "police have released no details, and asked people not to speculate at this difficult time" or "we cannot say anything as it might prejudice a trial" - ie the usual pack of lies
"Merseyside Police say a 53-year-old white British man has been arrested after a car drove into pedestrians in Water Street, Liverpool"
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cn5xnlkegz0t
Whereas Waterloo would probably not be seen as 'in vain' for those who died in it, even if the conflict at its heart has little emotional resonance for people today.
It would make less sense that he'd include all the non-battle stuff the movie also showed.
Carabinier-à-Cheval cuirass holed by a cannonball at Waterloo, belonging to Antoine Fauveau
You're not surviving that.
I also think even if he loses, if he loses pretty good (gets a big increase in the Tory vote and beats Reform out of sight), it doesn't really derail his parliamentary comeback. Whereas if he loses his by-election, he's not going to get another shot at the mayoralty.
And then he sped off and hit someone, and then realised - fuck, I am going to die here - so he sped on, hitting even more people. It might have been some small if violent argument that spiralled into mass tragedy, without intent
If so, perhaps that is some tiny consolation in the bleakness
https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1927070642152640670?s=61
We moan, and of course we are not going to compare ourselves to this part of the past, but we don't know how good we have it.
From a recommendaiton on here I read 'By sword and fire: cruelty and atrocity in medieval warfare', which was a bit of an eye opener.
I've not read some of the author's other works, such as 'Blood cries afar' and 'Kill them all', about the Albigensian Crusade.
This has always stuck with me as a classy way to own your history. Perhaps something similar could be done with that nice Mr Colston?
Shouldn’t speculate but road rage is almost certainly the cause and he’s fucked his next ten years or so.
Still wonder if he won't try the Hail Mary of leader from outside parliament though
Musket balls could inflict terrible wounds.
Ney’s cavalry charge was a failure, per se, but it forced the allied infantry to remain in squares, which were torn apart by French artillery.
election isn't until 2028. In theory- though it seems unlikely- May 2028 is the earliest "not taking the piss" date for the next General Election.
Anyhoo- if Boris became Mayor again in 2028, he really can't ditch that for Parliament in the fifteen months that follow. And if he loses, even losing well, he is a Loser, and that doesn't help him.
(Which is the other thing. Boris's political gambles tend to be on sureish things. It's hard to see a Conservative candidate in London as one of those.)
https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-05-23/iraqi-man-living-in-liverpool-jailed-for-sending-islamic-state-videos
The Napoleonic wars are full of men like Etienne Dulong, Thomas Cochrane, Ney, Captain O’Hare performing insane acts of bravery.