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Will Jenrick or Cleverly be the orange ball-chewing gimp of Boris Johnson? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946
    Andy_JS said:

    Would Ref do even better with a female leader? There's only one candidate atm obviously.

    Not that obvious. Ann Widdecome or Cruella DeVil?

    DeVil just has to cross the floor ( kinda).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,929
    isam said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    What is going to happen with energy today? We're already at 120%, exporting to the continent and the sun is barely up yet.

    I guess we'll be paying lots of turbines to turn off. What a waste.

    And we’re still burning gas, presumably down South because the grid can’t get the electricity from the wind farms quickly enough.

    0.41gw going into pumped storage.

    We’re also, oddly, buying electricity from France up the interconnector at the moment.
    Another good illustration of getting stuff built rather than messing around with planning enquiries and legal challenges for half a decade.

    Far more grid infrastructure could be built by now if that were the case.
    Sure you would love a tower in your garden
    I live in West Yorkshir, Malc.
    Pylons have crisscrossed the landscape for decades.
    they are a blot on the landscape, bet not many in the home counties
    Quite a lot in Essex, Malc, and the promise of more to come, due to the wind farms in the North Sea.
    Certain amount of 'concern, bordering upon hysteria' from the NIMBY brigade.
    There sure is!
    The risk of cancer from living near them being a rather legitimate concern!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,411
    edited May 26

    Cicero said:

    The American far right money men, who have been trying to stage an intervention to save old Blighty from the Libtard woke of universal health care will be interested in the parallels between the return of Trump and the potential return of Boris. Up until now, they have been more interested in Farage, but even now, the RefUk is a far weaker vessel than the Conservative and Unionist Party. Johnson, for all his manifest faults, also looks far more like Trump than the rather ferret-like crawler NF.

    So, there certainly is a constituency for the return of Johnson- and in his own story the temptation of a "Winston´s back" parallel for redemption in the same way as his hero at the outbreak of WW II is going to be overwhelming. The problem is that those who most want the reanimation of Johnson´s political career are not necessarily in the Tory Party. Indeed there is a good fraction of the Tories that wouldn´t have him back at any price, many of these are those who were once closest to him.

    In the same way that he once double crossed Gove for a position in the Oxford Union, so Johnson will seek to find a patsy in the current leadership of the Tory Party to serve his purpose. He will try to return- he has money and the means of getting a lot more before he returns to the Commons- and he truly, deeply believes that it is his right to be the World King.

    The problem is that unless the Tory Party acclaims him, the slightest resistance will seriously damage his plans. The Party is in an extremely fragile position and even a minor spat could now lead to irrelevance. So, perhaps @HYFUD might comment further, but Johnson can only come back if the Tories are united in that cause.

    We know Johnson is reckless, so he may decide to make his move too soon. Then the parallel is not Winston, but Lloyd George. The Americans would then focus on the ramshackle vehicle that is RefUK and the Tories pass into history.

    Personally I think that all foreign money in British politics should be banned and severely policed. We have certainly had Russian and American interventions, and occasionally other countries too. It is not acceptable and must be stopped.

    But if all that Russian money gets us the Governments of Farage or Johnson that the media of the nation all crave, surely it is good and righteous money. When an earlier iteration of that same rouble gets us Harold Wilson, Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock it is dirty money.
    Surely the dependency here is BoJo making it back into Parliament, and the only one I can see is when Rishi leaves if he manages to spin and shovel his way into the seat? Unless Rishi decides he likes the back benches.

    Who would stand down for him? And who would want him as their MP?

    Is he actually better in a Reformy type place, rather than a rich Tory type place?

    (Though TBF Richmond has iirc the highest armed forces vote in the country. Would BoJo be more likely to succeed somewhere like Colchester, or La Truss's old seat?)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,750
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    What is going to happen with energy today? We're already at 120%, exporting to the continent and the sun is barely up yet.

    I guess we'll be paying lots of turbines to turn off. What a waste.

    And we’re still burning gas, presumably down South because the grid can’t get the electricity from the wind farms quickly enough.

    0.41gw going into pumped storage.

    We’re also, oddly, buying electricity from France up the interconnector at the moment.
    Another good illustration of getting stuff built rather than messing around with planning enquiries and legal challenges for half a decade.

    Far more grid infrastructure could be built by now if that were the case.
    Sure you would love a tower in your garden
    I live in West Yorkshir, Malc.
    Pylons have crisscrossed the landscape for decades.
    they are a blot on the landscape, bet not many in the home counties
    In any event, my point was that they'll get built eventually. Delay just makes them a lot more expensive.

    The planning nonsense is every bit as much an unaffordable luxury as the ever increasing welfare bill.

    Everyone wants nice stuff. No one wants to pay the price.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,421
    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,182

    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”

    There might be one in the US, but can't see it happening in European countries.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,750
    edited May 26

    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”

    Sounds Marxist nonsense to me.

    Or he thinks he's Hari Seldon.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946
    MattW said:

    Cicero said:

    The American far right money men, who have been trying to stage an intervention to save old Blighty from the Libtard woke of universal health care will be interested in the parallels between the return of Trump and the potential return of Boris. Up until now, they have been more interested in Farage, but even now, the RefUk is a far weaker vessel than the Conservative and Unionist Party. Johnson, for all his manifest faults, also looks far more like Trump than the rather ferret-like crawler NF.

    So, there certainly is a constituency for the return of Johnson- and in his own story the temptation of a "Winston´s back" parallel for redemption in the same way as his hero at the outbreak of WW II is going to be overwhelming. The problem is that those who most want the reanimation of Johnson´s political career are not necessarily in the Tory Party. Indeed there is a good fraction of the Tories that wouldn´t have him back at any price, many of these are those who were once closest to him.

    In the same way that he once double crossed Gove for a position in the Oxford Union, so Johnson will seek to find a patsy in the current leadership of the Tory Party to serve his purpose. He will try to return- he has money and the means of getting a lot more before he returns to the Commons- and he truly, deeply believes that it is his right to be the World King.

    The problem is that unless the Tory Party acclaims him, the slightest resistance will seriously damage his plans. The Party is in an extremely fragile position and even a minor spat could now lead to irrelevance. So, perhaps @HYFUD might comment further, but Johnson can only come back if the Tories are united in that cause.

    We know Johnson is reckless, so he may decide to make his move too soon. Then the parallel is not Winston, but Lloyd George. The Americans would then focus on the ramshackle vehicle that is RefUK and the Tories pass into history.

    Personally I think that all foreign money in British politics should be banned and severely policed. We have certainly had Russian and American interventions, and occasionally other countries too. It is not acceptable and must be stopped.

    But if all that Russian money gets us the Governments of Farage or Johnson that the media of the nation all crave, surely it is good and righteous money. When an earlier iteration of that same rouble gets us Harold Wilson, Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock it is dirty money.
    Surely the dependency here is BoJo making it back into Parliament, and the only one I can see is when Rishi leaves if he manages to spin and shovel his way into the seat? Unless Rishi decides he likes the back benches.

    Who would stand down for him? And who would want him as their MP?

    Is he actually better in a Reformy type place, rather than a rich Tory type place?

    (Though TBF Richmond has iirc the highest armed forces vote in the country. Would BoJo be more likely to succeed somewhere like Colchester, or La Truss's old seat?)
    Remember Johnson is a reincarnation of Churchill. The military love him.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,108
    Just been out to a closed shop and back again, as I do every Bank Holiday. Perils of self-employment.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,078
    He's a fan of Orban and Putinism, as I recall.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,421
    Nigelb said:


    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”

    Sounds Marxist nonsense to me.

    Or he thinks he's Hari Seldon.
    He’s just applying the principles we use to analyse other societies to our own.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,781
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    What is going to happen with energy today? We're already at 120%, exporting to the continent and the sun is barely up yet.

    I guess we'll be paying lots of turbines to turn off. What a waste.

    And we’re still burning gas, presumably down South because the grid can’t get the electricity from the wind farms quickly enough.

    0.41gw going into pumped storage.

    We’re also, oddly, buying electricity from France up the interconnector at the moment.
    Another good illustration of getting stuff built rather than messing around with planning enquiries and legal challenges for half a decade.

    Far more grid infrastructure could be built by now if that were the case.
    Sure you would love a tower in your garden
    I live in West Yorkshir, Malc.
    Pylons have crisscrossed the landscape for decades.
    they are a blot on the landscape, bet not many in the home counties
    In any event, my point was that they'll get built eventually. Delay just makes them a lot more expensive.

    The planning nonsense is every bit as much an unaffordable luxury as the ever increasing welfare bill.

    Everyone wants nice stuff. No one wants to pay the price.
    And some of that price is having some pylons interrupting their lovely view. Frankly, compared with some of the other prices, it's pretty minor.

    I suspect the question underlying a lot of Britain's problems is "how seriously do we want future generations to be rich?" And for many of those who have made their personal pile already, the answer is "meh".
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946
    Nigelb said:


    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”

    Sounds Marxist nonsense to me.

    Or he thinks he's Hari Seldon.
    Well it was posted by @williamglenn
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,699

    Nigelb said:


    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”

    Sounds Marxist nonsense to me.

    Or he thinks he's Hari Seldon.
    He’s just applying the principles we use to analyse other societies to our own.
    Got your AR-15 and cellar full of tinned goods prepped?
    Who is ‘we’ and which is ‘our own’ society?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,821
    MattW said:

    Cicero said:

    The American far right money men, who have been trying to stage an intervention to save old Blighty from the Libtard woke of universal health care will be interested in the parallels between the return of Trump and the potential return of Boris. Up until now, they have been more interested in Farage, but even now, the RefUk is a far weaker vessel than the Conservative and Unionist Party. Johnson, for all his manifest faults, also looks far more like Trump than the rather ferret-like crawler NF.

    So, there certainly is a constituency for the return of Johnson- and in his own story the temptation of a "Winston´s back" parallel for redemption in the same way as his hero at the outbreak of WW II is going to be overwhelming. The problem is that those who most want the reanimation of Johnson´s political career are not necessarily in the Tory Party. Indeed there is a good fraction of the Tories that wouldn´t have him back at any price, many of these are those who were once closest to him.

    In the same way that he once double crossed Gove for a position in the Oxford Union, so Johnson will seek to find a patsy in the current leadership of the Tory Party to serve his purpose. He will try to return- he has money and the means of getting a lot more before he returns to the Commons- and he truly, deeply believes that it is his right to be the World King.

    The problem is that unless the Tory Party acclaims him, the slightest resistance will seriously damage his plans. The Party is in an extremely fragile position and even a minor spat could now lead to irrelevance. So, perhaps @HYFUD might comment further, but Johnson can only come back if the Tories are united in that cause.

    We know Johnson is reckless, so he may decide to make his move too soon. Then the parallel is not Winston, but Lloyd George. The Americans would then focus on the ramshackle vehicle that is RefUK and the Tories pass into history.

    Personally I think that all foreign money in British politics should be banned and severely policed. We have certainly had Russian and American interventions, and occasionally other countries too. It is not acceptable and must be stopped.

    But if all that Russian money gets us the Governments of Farage or Johnson that the media of the nation all crave, surely it is good and righteous money. When an earlier iteration of that same rouble gets us Harold Wilson, Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock it is dirty money.
    Surely the dependency here is BoJo making it back into Parliament, and the only one I can see is when Rishi leaves if he manages to spin and shovel his way into the seat? Unless Rishi decides he likes the back benches.

    Who would stand down for him? And who would want him as their MP?

    Is he actually better in a Reformy type place, rather than a rich Tory type place?

    (Though TBF Richmond has iirc the highest armed forces vote in the country. Would BoJo be more likely to succeed somewhere like Colchester, or La Truss's old seat?)
    Currently both Labour held.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,074

    Nigelb said:


    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”

    Sounds Marxist nonsense to me.

    Or he thinks he's Hari Seldon.
    He’s just applying the principles we use to analyse other societies to our own.
    He really isn’t - he’s selectively applying the principles in a way that generates the outcome he wants.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,074

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    What is going to happen with energy today? We're already at 120%, exporting to the continent and the sun is barely up yet.

    I guess we'll be paying lots of turbines to turn off. What a waste.

    And we’re still burning gas, presumably down South because the grid can’t get the electricity from the wind farms quickly enough.

    0.41gw going into pumped storage.

    We’re also, oddly, buying electricity from France up the interconnector at the moment.
    Another good illustration of getting stuff built rather than messing around with planning enquiries and legal challenges for half a decade.

    Far more grid infrastructure could be built by now if that were the case.
    Sure you would love a tower in your garden
    I live in West Yorkshir, Malc.
    Pylons have crisscrossed the landscape for decades.
    they are a blot on the landscape, bet not many in the home counties
    In any event, my point was that they'll get built eventually. Delay just makes them a lot more expensive.

    The planning nonsense is every bit as much an unaffordable luxury as the ever increasing welfare bill.

    Everyone wants nice stuff. No one wants to pay the price.
    And some of that price is having some pylons interrupting their lovely view. Frankly, compared with some of the other prices, it's pretty minor.

    I suspect the question underlying a lot of Britain's problems is "how seriously do we want future generations to be rich?" And for many of those who have made their personal pile already, the answer is "meh".
    We want to coast as we are not understanding that if you aren’t growing you are declining. We’ve already had examples where old infrastructure is dying and not been replaced and that’s going to be far more common over the next 20 years
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,078
    Very slow bank holiday.
    Feels like a usual Monday.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946

    isam said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    What is going to happen with energy today? We're already at 120%, exporting to the continent and the sun is barely up yet.

    I guess we'll be paying lots of turbines to turn off. What a waste.

    And we’re still burning gas, presumably down South because the grid can’t get the electricity from the wind farms quickly enough.

    0.41gw going into pumped storage.

    We’re also, oddly, buying electricity from France up the interconnector at the moment.
    Another good illustration of getting stuff built rather than messing around with planning enquiries and legal challenges for half a decade.

    Far more grid infrastructure could be built by now if that were the case.
    Sure you would love a tower in your garden
    I live in West Yorkshir, Malc.
    Pylons have crisscrossed the landscape for decades.
    they are a blot on the landscape, bet not many in the home counties
    Quite a lot in Essex, Malc, and the promise of more to come, due to the wind farms in the North Sea.
    Certain amount of 'concern, bordering upon hysteria' from the NIMBY brigade.
    There sure is!
    The risk of cancer from living near them being a rather legitimate concern!
    Before I bought my doer-upper in Whitchurch, Cardiff I looked at a heavily discounted new build in Talbot Green, it had one foot of a pylon in its very small garden. Could I live with the pylon foot in my garden? I thought with a judicious use of shrubs I probably could. But then again could I live with the low level hum?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 843
    Nigelb said:


    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”

    Sounds Marxist nonsense to me.

    Or he thinks he's Hari Seldon.
    Is Trump the Mule?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,750
    .
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:


    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”

    Sounds Marxist nonsense to me.

    Or he thinks he's Hari Seldon.
    He’s just applying the principles we use to analyse other societies to our own.
    He really isn’t - he’s selectively applying the principles in a way that generates the outcome he wants.
    Had a brief glance. Lots, and lots of words.

    Seems to be a fan of every authoritarian right winger across Europe.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,750
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I don't think the epithet works in the UK, or has resonance. Maurice Glasman afaics got it from amongst other places Steve Bannon, to whom he was introduced by Farage at the Trump inauguration events, if I have it right.

    And it's not clear what it means here in the UK. In the USA Trumpists such as the anti-establishment Bannon are attempting to demonise the "professional, managerial classes" to whom they apply the term. *

    Most people seen with lanyards in the UK are afaik simply service providers - NHS staff, staff in care homes, people in Council Offices and so on. And we recognise that in such settings identifying staff is important. Perasonally, I've always refused to wear any lanyard round my neck, because it gives out of control people something to grab onto and attempt strangulation.

    There are bits of PC to whine about, rainbow lanyards and so on but it's inconsistent getting angry about those if eg you are defending the wearing of a cross or fish badge on the lapel. There are also schemes such as "sunflower lanyards" used to identify people with hidden disabilities without having to go through the whole "Prove to me that you disabled" interrogation.

    I don't see it sticking here. They'll have to invent something else to get angry about.

    * https://observer.co.uk/news/politics/article/labours-trump-card
    Farage is also a lanyard wearer.
    It's utterly meaningless.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,699
    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:


    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”

    Sounds Marxist nonsense to me.

    Or he thinks he's Hari Seldon.
    Is Trump the Mule?
    The Ass at least.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,496
    Andy_JS said:
    I think this is just media meme bollocks. Its really is an Aunt Sally set up by a few journos, I do not get any sense that there is any traction around the water cooler, partly because most office environments-not just the allegedly woke workplaces- use lanyards.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,496

    He's a fan of Orban and Putinism, as I recall.

    Yes, and the analysis he applies to the US is flawed, and to the rest of "the West" is more or less nonsense. So, Putinist projection, rather than serious thinking.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,821

    Very slow bank holiday.
    Feels like a usual Monday.

    No it doesn't; it's not raining.

    Yet, anyway,
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,416
    Nigelb said:


    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”

    Sounds Marxist nonsense to me.

    Or he thinks he's Hari Seldon.
    Or Charles "Helter Skelter" Manson.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,416

    Very slow bank holiday.
    Feels like a usual Monday.

    Not at Tesco. Hell of a scrum in poultry.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,750
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    What is going to happen with energy today? We're already at 120%, exporting to the continent and the sun is barely up yet.

    I guess we'll be paying lots of turbines to turn off. What a waste.

    And we’re still burning gas, presumably down South because the grid can’t get the electricity from the wind farms quickly enough.

    0.41gw going into pumped storage.

    We’re also, oddly, buying electricity from France up the interconnector at the moment.
    Another good illustration of getting stuff built rather than messing around with planning enquiries and legal challenges for half a decade.

    Far more grid infrastructure could be built by now if that were the case.
    Sure you would love a tower in your garden
    I live in West Yorkshir, Malc.
    Pylons have crisscrossed the landscape for decades.
    they are a blot on the landscape, bet not many in the home counties
    In any event, my point was that they'll get built eventually. Delay just makes them a lot more expensive.

    The planning nonsense is every bit as much an unaffordable luxury as the ever increasing welfare bill.

    Everyone wants nice stuff. No one wants to pay the price.
    And some of that price is having some pylons interrupting their lovely view. Frankly, compared with some of the other prices, it's pretty minor.

    I suspect the question underlying a lot of Britain's problems is "how seriously do we want future generations to be rich?" And for many of those who have made their personal pile already, the answer is "meh".
    We want to coast as we are not understanding that if you aren’t growing you are declining. We’ve already had examples where old infrastructure is dying and not been replaced and that’s going to be far more common over the next 20 years
    The hard part isn't working out that money needs to be spent - even Reeves has managed that.

    Reeves to champion £113bn of new capital investment in spending review
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/26/rachel-reeves-new-capital-investment-spending-review

    Spending it effectively - and getting the work done promptly - is much harder.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,253
    isam said:

    Tories would be fools to fall for Boris Johnson again, writes Jenni Russell in The Times

    While Johnson dithers, wondering not what he could do for his country but what his country might do for him, the Tories must decide how to react; they would be culpable fools to fall for this hollow man a second time. The idea that Johnson is the route to Tory recovery is preposterous. He’s the root cause of their current collapse. He broke their brand. He promised to cut immigration only to drive it up by millions. He promised post-Brexit prosperity but made the country poorer. He promised levelling up but couldn’t be bothered, so delivered levelling down. He wrecked his party, expelling so many decent principled Tories that his successor was the catastrophic Truss. He pioneered the recklessness she tried to imitate. He modelled deception, charm and carelessness as a route to highest office. His betrayals have deepened the despairing political cynicism that pervades Britain now. The country has been damaged in every way by his legacy.

    If some inattentive voters have forgotten or forgiven this, Reform haven’t; a party led by Boris would be pulverised on his record. This is not 2016, and Johnson is yesterday’s man. This is no time for a dilettante. Britons are angry, scared and furious at politicians’ paralysis as their lives and prospects get worse. They’re looking for conviction, action, dynamism, and leaders who mean to do what they say.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/1d323e77-2eef-42b2-bf9b-af2dae00d230?shareToken=f530e93df83b65aaed3a941515844785

    It would be a disaster for the Tories. An endless slurry of Boris! stories all about the Great Man which pay sneering lipservice to normal people and their real needs. Reminding them of how shit he was last time and promising the moon on a stick this time with a very visible lack of a moon. Or a stick.

    Go on Tories, do it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891

    DavidL said:

    Boris has character (not necessarily a good one but its a start), wit, an ability to amuse and to make the story about him. Neither Badenoch or Jenrick tick any of those boxes. He also, of course, has a lot of baggage but at least he might get an audience. The problem the Tories have right now is that no one is even listening.

    But yet another child to feed, a child who will be going to University when he is 78. Can he really afford to come back to front line politics?

    This is the key reason why giving him another turn as leader makes sense. Like the return of Trump, the return of the World King would be an endless gift for the news industry. Nobody is interested in what the Conservative Party thinks anymore, but as we all know, Boris is in this for himself and stuff the party.

    The obvious seat is Richmond. Sunak wants away, Boris steps in, the King is no longer over the water. He would absolutely need to mea culpa but knowing him it would be done in a way that is funny.

    The problem is this: people want change and he failed to deliver any - not positive change anyway. Reform keep faffing about and need to professionalise, and think Boris would force them to do so. Boris as LOTO gives Farage the perfect deflection strategy to his non-policies - point at Boris's failure and waffle as the reminder of everything that has already been tried and abjectly failed.

    So yes, lets have Shagger back in parliament. It would be fun.
    To be fair to Boris, we have no idea what his levelling up agenda might have delivered if we hadn't maxed the credit card on Covid.

    But to kick Boris in the nuts, he was all gung-ho about tidal power until he had a chance to implement it, when instead he went nuclear. So fuck him.

    As I've said, there's more chance of a Rolf Harris comeback.
    Boris's levelling up agenda left Downing Street in Dominic Cummings' box when he was sacked for dissing Princess Nut Nut. It was Cummings, architect of Brexit's victory, who understood it was about NOTA and not the EU.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,078
    So Trump has taken away the Euro tariffs again, until July. Just completely unpredictable, each abd every day
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,078
    Or even *and*, that should be.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,416

    isam said:

    Tories would be fools to fall for Boris Johnson again, writes Jenni Russell in The Times

    While Johnson dithers, wondering not what he could do for his country but what his country might do for him, the Tories must decide how to react; they would be culpable fools to fall for this hollow man a second time. The idea that Johnson is the route to Tory recovery is preposterous. He’s the root cause of their current collapse. He broke their brand. He promised to cut immigration only to drive it up by millions. He promised post-Brexit prosperity but made the country poorer. He promised levelling up but couldn’t be bothered, so delivered levelling down. He wrecked his party, expelling so many decent principled Tories that his successor was the catastrophic Truss. He pioneered the recklessness she tried to imitate. He modelled deception, charm and carelessness as a route to highest office. His betrayals have deepened the despairing political cynicism that pervades Britain now. The country has been damaged in every way by his legacy.

    If some inattentive voters have forgotten or forgiven this, Reform haven’t; a party led by Boris would be pulverised on his record. This is not 2016, and Johnson is yesterday’s man. This is no time for a dilettante. Britons are angry, scared and furious at politicians’ paralysis as their lives and prospects get worse. They’re looking for conviction, action, dynamism, and leaders who mean to do what they say.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/1d323e77-2eef-42b2-bf9b-af2dae00d230?shareToken=f530e93df83b65aaed3a941515844785

    It would be a disaster for the Tories. An endless slurry of Boris! stories all about the Great Man which pay sneering lipservice to normal people and their real needs. Reminding them of how shit he was last time and promising the moon on a stick this time with a very visible lack of a moon. Or a stick.

    Go on Tories, do it.
    If Johnson comes back we might as well pack up and accept that our politics is broken. It'd be nothing more than a game show. But I'm not about to lay it at 9. If it were half that, maybe.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,041
    Reform would be a disaster for the UK. Like the Front Nationale. It must be stopped.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,416

    So Trump has taken away the Euro tariffs again, until July. Just completely unpredictable, each and every day

    Although him throwing threats around and then backing down has become about as predictable as anything in this world. At some point the penny will drop and his every utterance will stop being reported as "news".
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,182


    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    What is going to happen with energy today? We're already at 120%, exporting to the continent and the sun is barely up yet.

    I guess we'll be paying lots of turbines to turn off. What a waste.


    I asked around. I was told CCGT was running to meet 24hr interconnection contracts. And that’s due to us not being able to move surplus Scottish wind farm electricity south to France. We need more pylons or more copper on the existing pylons.

    I think this is likely to be right but it’s not horses mouth.


    I guess we could do with more ways to use cheap electricity.
    I would guess the bottleneck is the interconnecter to the continent rather than anything in the UK. Our population centre is near Leicester and offshore wind is more broadly spread around than you might think: https://renewables-map.robinhawkes.com/#5.42/54.843/1.142
    Super map. Thank you.
    Remarkable absence in the South West.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,799
    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,799

    So Trump has taken away the Euro tariffs again, until July. Just completely unpredictable, each abd every day

    While calling Putin 'crazy'
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891
    kinabalu said:

    Very slow bank holiday.
    Feels like a usual Monday.

    Not at Tesco. Hell of a scrum in poultry.
    Another scrum at Aldi apparently, where some sort of pilates gadget is flying (or has already flown) off the shelves at £150 because traditional ones cost ten times that.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,821
    HYUFD said:

    So Trump has taken away the Euro tariffs again, until July. Just completely unpredictable, each abd every day

    While calling Putin 'crazy'
    So he's right once?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946
    kinabalu said:

    So Trump has taken away the Euro tariffs again, until July. Just completely unpredictable, each and every day

    Although him throwing threats around and then backing down has become about as predictable as anything in this world. At some point the penny will drop and his every utterance will stop being reported as "news".
    Most US news is simply sane washing Trump/ MAGA insanity. We can expect the same when Farage or Johnson becomes PM.

    Do you remember? Johnson banging on about picanninies and justifying racist- colonial language as a satirical parody of Blair.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,545
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    What is going to happen with energy today? We're already at 120%, exporting to the continent and the sun is barely up yet.

    I guess we'll be paying lots of turbines to turn off. What a waste.

    And we’re still burning gas, presumably down South because the grid can’t get the electricity from the wind farms quickly enough.

    0.41gw going into pumped storage.

    We’re also, oddly, buying electricity from France up the interconnector at the moment.
    Another good illustration of getting stuff built rather than messing around with planning enquiries and legal challenges for half a decade.

    Far more grid infrastructure could be built by now if that were the case.
    Sure you would love a tower in your garden
    I live in West Yorkshir, Malc.
    Pylons have crisscrossed the landscape for decades.
    It's a complete non issue for 95% - Farage and other bits of the political and media Right scraping around for a marketing narrative, since they have no credible policies.

    Not so long ago RefUK were in support of meeting net-zero.

    And now Mayor of Lincolnshire is supporting investment in Offshore Wind - that old Conservatve pragmatism.
    https://www.desmog.com/2025/05/23/anti-net-zero-reform-mayor-andrea-jenkyns-urges-offshore-wind-investment/
    Why do people,frame this as just being the right against pylons.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgrlx7z64n4o
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,799

    Part two of David Betz’ piece on civil war:

    https://x.com/davidbe31099196/status/1926893498113941561

    “That civil war is looming in the West is a logical conclusion of standard, well-understood precepts of social science.”

    He seems to see it is rural v urban but while there may be electoral clashes between them I can't see that translating into actual conflict
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,768
    edited May 26
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Tories would be fools to fall for Boris Johnson again, writes Jenni Russell in The Times

    While Johnson dithers, wondering not what he could do for his country but what his country might do for him, the Tories must decide how to react; they would be culpable fools to fall for this hollow man a second time. The idea that Johnson is the route to Tory recovery is preposterous. He’s the root cause of their current collapse. He broke their brand. He promised to cut immigration only to drive it up by millions. He promised post-Brexit prosperity but made the country poorer. He promised levelling up but couldn’t be bothered, so delivered levelling down. He wrecked his party, expelling so many decent principled Tories that his successor was the catastrophic Truss. He pioneered the recklessness she tried to imitate. He modelled deception, charm and carelessness as a route to highest office. His betrayals have deepened the despairing political cynicism that pervades Britain now. The country has been damaged in every way by his legacy.

    If some inattentive voters have forgotten or forgiven this, Reform haven’t; a party led by Boris would be pulverised on his record. This is not 2016, and Johnson is yesterday’s man. This is no time for a dilettante. Britons are angry, scared and furious at politicians’ paralysis as their lives and prospects get worse. They’re looking for conviction, action, dynamism, and leaders who mean to do what they say.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/1d323e77-2eef-42b2-bf9b-af2dae00d230?shareToken=f530e93df83b65aaed3a941515844785

    It would be a disaster for the Tories. An endless slurry of Boris! stories all about the Great Man which pay sneering lipservice to normal people and their real needs. Reminding them of how shit he was last time and promising the moon on a stick this time with a very visible lack of a moon. Or a stick.

    Go on Tories, do it.
    If Johnson comes back we might as well pack up and accept that our politics is broken. It'd be nothing more than a game show. But I'm not about to lay it at 9. If it were half that, maybe.
    I think we would need to accept that people are attracted to energy and optimism, something that no one else can exhibit. "Levelling up" was excellent messaging.

    I think this is Reform's weakness. They just come across as whining about everything whether it's LTNs, immigration or wind energy. That can only get you so far - you also need a vision for the country, as Labour are finding to their cost.
  • Smart51Smart51 Posts: 75
    Boris' appeal was a mixture of the fun of watching a clown plus fantastical promises about government. The clown act wore thin and he didn't even attempt to keep many of his promises. The public are less likely to be charmed by him a second time. While Boris might create a flutter in the hearts of a certain type of Tory, he creates a flutter in the bowels of too many voters to win.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,481
    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891
    London borough has 'once-in-a-century opportunity' to split from capital, says MP
    Romford MP Andrew Rosindell is campaigning for the London borough of Havering to leave the capital

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/havering-independence-essex-borough-b1229726.html
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,416

    kinabalu said:

    So Trump has taken away the Euro tariffs again, until July. Just completely unpredictable, each and every day

    Although him throwing threats around and then backing down has become about as predictable as anything in this world. At some point the penny will drop and his every utterance will stop being reported as "news".
    Most US news is simply sane washing Trump/ MAGA insanity. We can expect the same when Farage or Johnson becomes PM.

    Do you remember? Johnson banging on about picanninies and justifying racist- colonial language as a satirical parody of Blair.
    I remember every vomit inducing second of Boris Johnson as PM and cannot believe, even in these crazy times, that we'd go back there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,799
    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Everyone is chasing after this key segment of the voting public - ex-Labour, LEAVE supporters who went strongly for Boris in 2019. They are being courted by Nigel and Boris like two suitors in a pub on a Saturday night.

    Currently they are with Nigel but could they forgive Boris and take him back?


    Forgive Boris for immigration rather than Party gate I take it?

    For those who voted Leave and wanted the referendum result enacted, in many constituencies the only option was to vote Conservative in 2019. BXP didn’t stand against Leave supporters in case they split the vote and let in second referendumers (“People’s Vote” 🤣) through the middle.

    One of the main “People’s Vote” pushers is also courting these voters, realising ten years after that mass immigration isn’t a magic wand. Farage is the only show in town for immigration sceptics, Boris has already failed, and Starmer’s current affectation is not credible after a career saying the opposite
    The recent fall in immigration is mainly down to the tighter rules Rishi and Cleverly brought in
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,182
    One set all in the match between Emma Raducanu and Wang Xinyu at the French Open.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/live/ce3vxvgxvxyt
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,443
    edited May 26
    Excuse me, something seems to have happened with my expected delivery of two-dozen likes for this HILARIOUS comment at 7am no less.

    Leon said:

    This is, in so many ways, a ludicrously bad yet perfectly brilliant Guardian headline

    “Only a third of recommendations to tackle endemic racism in UK implemented”

    It’s literally the front page

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/may/25/only-a-third-of-recommendations-to-tackle-endemic-racism-in-uk-implemented

    Recommendations such as this...

    https://news.sky.com/story/call-for-dog-free-areas-in-wales-to-tackle-racism-13253986

    Call for dog-free areas in Wales to tackle racism
    Dogs can be such racist bastards, can't they? Tsk!
    We badly need a 'lick it out' campaign.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891
    Andy_JS said:

    One set all in the match between Emma Raducanu and Wang Xinyu at the French Open.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/live/ce3vxvgxvxyt

    It's the hope that kills us.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946
    edited May 26

    Excuse me, something seems to have happened with my expected delivery of two-dozen likes for this HILARIOUS comment at 7am no less.


    Leon said:

    This is, in so many ways, a ludicrously bad yet perfectly brilliant Guardian headline

    “Only a third of recommendations to tackle endemic racism in UK implemented”

    It’s literally the front page

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/may/25/only-a-third-of-recommendations-to-tackle-endemic-racism-in-uk-implemented

    Recommendations such as this...

    https://news.sky.com/story/call-for-dog-free-areas-in-wales-to-tackle-racism-13253986

    Call for dog-free areas in Wales to tackle racism
    Dogs can be such racist bastards, can't they? Tsk!
    We badly need a 'lick it out' campaign.
    Lucky, it's very poor form to punt failed comedy posts back into the field of play.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,017
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,443

    Excuse me, something seems to have happened with my expected delivery of two-dozen likes for this HILARIOUS comment at 7am no less.


    Leon said:

    This is, in so many ways, a ludicrously bad yet perfectly brilliant Guardian headline

    “Only a third of recommendations to tackle endemic racism in UK implemented”

    It’s literally the front page

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/may/25/only-a-third-of-recommendations-to-tackle-endemic-racism-in-uk-implemented

    Recommendations such as this...

    https://news.sky.com/story/call-for-dog-free-areas-in-wales-to-tackle-racism-13253986

    Call for dog-free areas in Wales to tackle racism
    Dogs can be such racist bastards, can't they? Tsk!
    We badly need a 'lick it out' campaign.
    Lucky, it's very poor taste to punt failed comedy posts back into the field of play.
    I fear my pearls are being cast before, well, you know.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,890

    London borough has 'once-in-a-century opportunity' to split from capital, says MP
    Romford MP Andrew Rosindell is campaigning for the London borough of Havering to leave the capital

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/havering-independence-essex-borough-b1229726.html

    I lived in Havering most of my life and I think people who still do would vote to Leave London if there were a referendum on it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,963
    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    As soon as I saw the header this morning I knew you'd be regurgitating that polling stat.

    All it does is demonstrate how poor Kemi Badenoch is.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,890
    edited May 26

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    I think that would be what Labour would like, split the right vote and slip through the middle again
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,182
    edited May 26

    London borough has 'once-in-a-century opportunity' to split from capital, says MP
    Romford MP Andrew Rosindell is campaigning for the London borough of Havering to leave the capital

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/havering-independence-essex-borough-b1229726.html

    Bit of a coincidence, I visited Romford for the first time a few days ago. Interesting place, you still hear the traditional London accent there. The reason was that it was the only place in Greater London with a hotel room for less than £100, lol.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    In other words he got all the big calls right.

    Did he, boll...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946
    Andy_JS said:

    London borough has 'once-in-a-century opportunity' to split from capital, says MP
    Romford MP Andrew Rosindell is campaigning for the London borough of Havering to leave the capital

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/havering-independence-essex-borough-b1229726.html

    Bit of a coincidence, I visited Romford for the first time a few days ago. Interesting place, you still hear the traditional London accent there. The reason was that it was the only place in Greater London with a hotel room for less than £100, lol.
    Gor blimey guvvner, strike a light!
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,017
    isam said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    I think that would be what Labour would like, split the right vote and slip through the middle again
    I honestly don't care that much, despite being lifelong Tory. The important thing is stymieing the rise of the hard populist right, who could burn down the house - the antithesis of conservatism.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,929

    Andy_JS said:

    London borough has 'once-in-a-century opportunity' to split from capital, says MP
    Romford MP Andrew Rosindell is campaigning for the London borough of Havering to leave the capital

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/havering-independence-essex-borough-b1229726.html

    Bit of a coincidence, I visited Romford for the first time a few days ago. Interesting place, you still hear the traditional London accent there. The reason was that it was the only place in Greater London with a hotel room for less than £100, lol.
    Gor blimey guvvner, strike a light!
    Does Dick van Dyke still live there then?
  • BarnstableBarnstable Posts: 8
    Hello all.
    I see Trump os whining this morning that Putins acting a bit nasty. Oh dear it seems Trumps Putins bitch now.
    Oh and Trump has once again backed down on his tariff hard man talk with the EU. Pathetic.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,407
    edited May 26

    kinabalu said:

    Very slow bank holiday.
    Feels like a usual Monday.

    Not at Tesco. Hell of a scrum in poultry.
    Another scrum at Aldi apparently, where some sort of pilates gadget is flying (or has already flown) off the shelves at £150 because traditional ones cost ten times that.
    Reminds me of JKR’s comment on a post of Nicola’s at the gym ( where she seems to spend more time than at Holyrood).
    “Pontius Pilates”.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,890
    Andy_JS said:

    London borough has 'once-in-a-century opportunity' to split from capital, says MP
    Romford MP Andrew Rosindell is campaigning for the London borough of Havering to leave the capital

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/havering-independence-essex-borough-b1229726.html

    Bit of a coincidence, I visited Romford for the first time a few days ago. Interesting place, you still hear the traditional London accent there. The reason was that it was the only place in Greater London with a hotel room for less than £100, lol.
    I got a hotel room in Windsor last week for £70…. But there was no hot water in the shower. Great location though - The Harte & Garter
  • BarnstableBarnstable Posts: 8

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    Boris coming back would be the end of Britain as a serious country.
  • BarnstableBarnstable Posts: 8
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    So Trump has taken away the Euro tariffs again, until July. Just completely unpredictable, each and every day

    Although him throwing threats around and then backing down has become about as predictable as anything in this world. At some point the penny will drop and his every utterance will stop being reported as "news".
    Most US news is simply sane washing Trump/ MAGA insanity. We can expect the same when Farage or Johnson becomes PM.

    Do you remember? Johnson banging on about picanninies and justifying racist- colonial language as a satirical parody of Blair.
    I remember every vomit inducing second of Boris Johnson as PM and cannot believe, even in these crazy times, that we'd go back there.
    I agree. It would be the end of Britain as any sort of serious country. Boris would promise the earth and deliver nothing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,799
    edited May 26

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    If Hunt had been Tory leader at the 2019 general election not Boris Farage may have become PM even then.

    Boris is the only Conservative leader Farage really fears, of course if we had PR it would be less of an issue and more difficult for Farage to win a majority on a third of the vote and the Tories would still get 100-150 MPs even on their current poll rating. We don't though, we have FPTP and as long as we do at the moment Boris is the best way to stop Farage becoming PM
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,443

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    Boris coming back would be the end of Britain as a serious country.
    Britain is a serious country?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,799
    Andy_JS said:

    London borough has 'once-in-a-century opportunity' to split from capital, says MP
    Romford MP Andrew Rosindell is campaigning for the London borough of Havering to leave the capital

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/havering-independence-essex-borough-b1229726.html

    Bit of a coincidence, I visited Romford for the first time a few days ago. Interesting place, you still hear the traditional London accent there. The reason was that it was the only place in Greater London with a hotel room for less than £100, lol.
    Romford and Havering are culturally Essex not London certainly, Reform will do far better there than the rest of London though at present as McMahon confirmed no plans for it to be merged into the new Essex unitaries
  • BarnstableBarnstable Posts: 8

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    Boris coming back would be the end of Britain as a serious country.
    Britain is a serious country?
    Well yes quite.
    We are falling well behind now.
    Bucharest in Romania is as rich as Yorkshire now.
    Take London and the SE away and we are basically eastern european standards of living
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891
    isam said:

    London borough has 'once-in-a-century opportunity' to split from capital, says MP
    Romford MP Andrew Rosindell is campaigning for the London borough of Havering to leave the capital

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/havering-independence-essex-borough-b1229726.html

    I lived in Havering most of my life and I think people who still do would vote to Leave London if there were a referendum on it.
    I think that is correct. Whether they'd want to join Essex is something I'm less clear on.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,856

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    As soon as I saw the header this morning I knew you'd be regurgitating that polling stat.

    All it does is demonstrate how poor Kemi Badenoch is.
    or how tory leaning voters wont vote for a party led by a black woman
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,674
    isam said:

    Tories would be fools to fall for Boris Johnson again, writes Jenni Russell in The Times

    While Johnson dithers, wondering not what he could do for his country but what his country might do for him, the Tories must decide how to react; they would be culpable fools to fall for this hollow man a second time. The idea that Johnson is the route to Tory recovery is preposterous. He’s the root cause of their current collapse. He broke their brand. He promised to cut immigration only to drive it up by millions. He promised post-Brexit prosperity but made the country poorer. He promised levelling up but couldn’t be bothered, so delivered levelling down. He wrecked his party, expelling so many decent principled Tories that his successor was the catastrophic Truss. He pioneered the recklessness she tried to imitate. He modelled deception, charm and carelessness as a route to highest office. His betrayals have deepened the despairing political cynicism that pervades Britain now. The country has been damaged in every way by his legacy.

    If some inattentive voters have forgotten or forgiven this, Reform haven’t; a party led by Boris would be pulverised on his record. This is not 2016, and Johnson is yesterday’s man. This is no time for a dilettante. Britons are angry, scared and furious at politicians’ paralysis as their lives and prospects get worse. They’re looking for conviction, action, dynamism, and leaders who mean to do what they say.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/1d323e77-2eef-42b2-bf9b-af2dae00d230?shareToken=f530e93df83b65aaed3a941515844785

    He wrecked his party, expelling so many decent principled Tories that his successor was the catastrophic Truss.

    Can she name any of these people who she says were expelled ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,438
    .
    Andy_JS said:
    This feels a bit like self-employed Times/Spectator writers trying to make lanyards a thing when to a vast proportion of people employed by others, they’re just a routine part of daily working life.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,017

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    Boris coming back would be the end of Britain as a serious country.
    Could say the same about the USA. But the country remains consequential even with a grotesque narcissist as leader.

    Unfortunately we live in a changed world. Social media, short attention spans, celebrity, breakdown in party loyalty, etc, etc.

    Perhaps Trump/Farage will be a spasm? Hope so. But for the time being, we have to reach for whatever tool is available to prevent the bad from getting worse.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946

    Andy_JS said:

    London borough has 'once-in-a-century opportunity' to split from capital, says MP
    Romford MP Andrew Rosindell is campaigning for the London borough of Havering to leave the capital

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/havering-independence-essex-borough-b1229726.html

    Bit of a coincidence, I visited Romford for the first time a few days ago. Interesting place, you still hear the traditional London accent there. The reason was that it was the only place in Greater London with a hotel room for less than £100, lol.
    Gor blimey guvvner, strike a light!
    Does Dick van Dyke still live there then?
    Up the apples and pears I believe and still wearing his whistle and flute and Peckham Rye.
  • SonofContrarianSonofContrarian Posts: 170

    .

    Andy_JS said:
    This feels a bit like self-employed Times/Spectator writers trying to make lanyards a thing when to a vast proportion of people employed by others, they’re just a routine part of daily working life.
    They never used to be..the civil service is not a template for the rest of the workforce..🧐🥴
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    Boris coming back would be the end of Britain as a serious country.
    Britain is a serious country?
    Not since we voted to impose economic sanctions on ourselves in 2016 and that was reinforced when we voted Ronald MacDonald as PM in 2019.
  • BarnstableBarnstable Posts: 8
    Have you noticed how quiet it is out and about.
    My local pub seems to have had business fall off a cliff since the start of April.
    My local coffee shop is quiet when it used to be packed.
    Seaside resorts are noticeably quieter.
    Something is brewing out there and it aint good.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,946

    isam said:

    Tories would be fools to fall for Boris Johnson again, writes Jenni Russell in The Times

    While Johnson dithers, wondering not what he could do for his country but what his country might do for him, the Tories must decide how to react; they would be culpable fools to fall for this hollow man a second time. The idea that Johnson is the route to Tory recovery is preposterous. He’s the root cause of their current collapse. He broke their brand. He promised to cut immigration only to drive it up by millions. He promised post-Brexit prosperity but made the country poorer. He promised levelling up but couldn’t be bothered, so delivered levelling down. He wrecked his party, expelling so many decent principled Tories that his successor was the catastrophic Truss. He pioneered the recklessness she tried to imitate. He modelled deception, charm and carelessness as a route to highest office. His betrayals have deepened the despairing political cynicism that pervades Britain now. The country has been damaged in every way by his legacy.

    If some inattentive voters have forgotten or forgiven this, Reform haven’t; a party led by Boris would be pulverised on his record. This is not 2016, and Johnson is yesterday’s man. This is no time for a dilettante. Britons are angry, scared and furious at politicians’ paralysis as their lives and prospects get worse. They’re looking for conviction, action, dynamism, and leaders who mean to do what they say.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/1d323e77-2eef-42b2-bf9b-af2dae00d230?shareToken=f530e93df83b65aaed3a941515844785

    He wrecked his party, expelling so many decent principled Tories that his successor was the catastrophic Truss.

    Can she name any of these people who she says were expelled ?
    Try this for size.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_suspension_of_rebel_Conservative_MPs
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,781

    isam said:

    London borough has 'once-in-a-century opportunity' to split from capital, says MP
    Romford MP Andrew Rosindell is campaigning for the London borough of Havering to leave the capital

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/havering-independence-essex-borough-b1229726.html

    I lived in Havering most of my life and I think people who still do would vote to Leave London if there were a referendum on it.
    I think that is correct. Whether they'd want to join Essex is something I'm less clear on.
    Some would- especially those who left London to go to Essex. For some, that's an important part of their identity. That's not to be sniffed at.

    However, looking at a map (Havering is much more connected to Barking & Dagenham and to Redbridge. Between Havering and Brentwood or Epping Forest, the Green Belt and the M25 get in the way), it's bonkers. Thurrock probably makes a more geographically logical partner for Havering, but I doubt that anybody wants that.

    Bottom line- the current politically in, societally part-in, part-out thing probably reflects the will of the people fairly well. And many of those who protest the status quo most would be the first to complain at the replacement of City Hall services by whatever came next.

    I've always said that Buster was the brains of the operation. And he died at the age of fifteen, which is about 105 when you convert dog years to human ones.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891

    .

    Andy_JS said:
    This feels a bit like self-employed Times/Spectator writers trying to make lanyards a thing when to a vast proportion of people employed by others, they’re just a routine part of daily working life.
    They never used to be..the civil service is not a template for the rest of the workforce..🧐🥴
    Lanyards became more-or-less universal not as some woke conspiracy but when the (typically) photo id cards worn on said lanyards became NFC cards that are needed to pass through doors and turnstiles and to get your pages from the group printer.
  • BarnstableBarnstable Posts: 8

    Have you noticed how quiet it is out and about.
    My local pub seems to have had business fall off a cliff since the start of April.
    My local coffee shop is quiet when it used to be packed.
    Seaside resorts are noticeably quieter.
    Something is brewing out there and it aint good.

    Is it as good as the potato vodka in Chelyabinsk?
    Did a 4 hour drive to the lakes for a long weekend this month and it was dead there too. Car parks normally full half empty and pubs quiet. Worrying.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,438

    .

    Andy_JS said:
    This feels a bit like self-employed Times/Spectator writers trying to make lanyards a thing when to a vast proportion of people employed by others, they’re just a routine part of daily working life.
    They never used to be..the civil service is not a template for the rest of the workforce..🧐🥴
    They became more common with electronic access systems. I see them used in universities, but also in schools. I’ve seen them used in the civil surface, but also in private sector companies.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,674

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    Boris coming back would be the end of Britain as a serious country.
    Britain is a serious country?
    Well yes quite.
    We are falling well behind now.
    Bucharest in Romania is as rich as Yorkshire now.
    Take London and the SE away and we are basically eastern european standards of living
    Yet there are thousands of eastern Europeans who live in Yorkshire and near zero Yorkshiremen who live in eastern Europe.

    Not to mention that London has a lower standard of living than Yorkshire:

    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/does-living-and-working-in-london-give-you-a-wealthier-lifestyle-c2fwsvxfl
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,443

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    Boris coming back would be the end of Britain as a serious country.
    Britain is a serious country?
    Not since we voted to impose economic sanctions on ourselves in 2016 and that was reinforced when we voted Ronald MacDonald as PM in 2019.
    Thankfully we've now got Sir Statesmanlike restoring our global reputation one compo cheque at a time.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,891

    Have you noticed how quiet it is out and about.
    My local pub seems to have had business fall off a cliff since the start of April.
    My local coffee shop is quiet when it used to be packed.
    Seaside resorts are noticeably quieter.
    Something is brewing out there and it aint good.

    Warm weather and people without children taking cheap foreign holidays before the school term ends and prices rocket for six weeks.

    But yes, I have noticed it's quieter out, but that is my rationalisation for it.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,778

    isam said:

    London borough has 'once-in-a-century opportunity' to split from capital, says MP
    Romford MP Andrew Rosindell is campaigning for the London borough of Havering to leave the capital

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/havering-independence-essex-borough-b1229726.html

    I lived in Havering most of my life and I think people who still do would vote to Leave London if there were a referendum on it.
    I think that is correct. Whether they'd want to join Essex is something I'm less clear on.
    If there’s a referendum, will they be decisive or are they havering?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,443

    isam said:

    Tories would be fools to fall for Boris Johnson again, writes Jenni Russell in The Times

    While Johnson dithers, wondering not what he could do for his country but what his country might do for him, the Tories must decide how to react; they would be culpable fools to fall for this hollow man a second time. The idea that Johnson is the route to Tory recovery is preposterous. He’s the root cause of their current collapse. He broke their brand. He promised to cut immigration only to drive it up by millions. He promised post-Brexit prosperity but made the country poorer. He promised levelling up but couldn’t be bothered, so delivered levelling down. He wrecked his party, expelling so many decent principled Tories that his successor was the catastrophic Truss. He pioneered the recklessness she tried to imitate. He modelled deception, charm and carelessness as a route to highest office. His betrayals have deepened the despairing political cynicism that pervades Britain now. The country has been damaged in every way by his legacy.

    If some inattentive voters have forgotten or forgiven this, Reform haven’t; a party led by Boris would be pulverised on his record. This is not 2016, and Johnson is yesterday’s man. This is no time for a dilettante. Britons are angry, scared and furious at politicians’ paralysis as their lives and prospects get worse. They’re looking for conviction, action, dynamism, and leaders who mean to do what they say.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/1d323e77-2eef-42b2-bf9b-af2dae00d230?shareToken=f530e93df83b65aaed3a941515844785

    He wrecked his party, expelling so many decent principled Tories that his successor was the catastrophic Truss.

    Can she name any of these people who she says were expelled ?
    Who is 'Jenni' Russell when she's at home?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,411
    edited May 26
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    What is going to happen with energy today? We're already at 120%, exporting to the continent and the sun is barely up yet.

    I guess we'll be paying lots of turbines to turn off. What a waste.

    And we’re still burning gas, presumably down South because the grid can’t get the electricity from the wind farms quickly enough.

    0.41gw going into pumped storage.

    We’re also, oddly, buying electricity from France up the interconnector at the moment.
    Another good illustration of getting stuff built rather than messing around with planning enquiries and legal challenges for half a decade.

    Far more grid infrastructure could be built by now if that were the case.
    Sure you would love a tower in your garden
    I live in West Yorkshir, Malc.
    Pylons have crisscrossed the landscape for decades.
    It's a complete non issue for 95% - Farage and other bits of the political and media Right scraping around for a marketing narrative, since they have no credible policies.

    Not so long ago RefUK were in support of meeting net-zero.

    And now Mayor of Lincolnshire is supporting investment in Offshore Wind - that old Conservatve pragmatism.
    https://www.desmog.com/2025/05/23/anti-net-zero-reform-mayor-andrea-jenkyns-urges-offshore-wind-investment/
    Why do people,frame this as just being the right against pylons.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgrlx7z64n4o
    I think because that is how the Right frame it themselves - it's an arm of both Nimbyism and the Reform narrative, plus their media drone on about it endlessly.

    For the MP you link, Adrian Ramsey, TBF to him he is asking for alternatives to be considered ie an offshore grid and buried cables, in advance of pylon lines. I don't see either of those as viable - one for national secutity and fishing reasons, the other because of cost and maintainability.

    I grew up with a pylon in our family paddock in Derbyshire, and I don't see any problem.
  • BarnstableBarnstable Posts: 8

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the MoreinCommon poll has a Boris led Conservatives retaking the lead on 26% to 23% for Reform and 22% for Labour you would expect him to not only win any by election he fights in a Tory held seat but also to increase the Conservative majority.

    However I cannot see him becoming a contender for the leadership before he is back in Parliament. If Kemi lost a VONC next autumn and was replaced by Cleverly or Jenrick they would see themselves as having that mandate not Boris to lead the party until the next GE

    The tories need Johnson to survive. We'll see if they have the will and guile to engineer it.
    I think you are right.

    Declaration: I am no fan of Boris and voted for Hunt against him for leader. I think I was right to at the time, and I certainly accept the many criticisms of Boris expressed in this thread. But what's the alternative? PM Farage?

    So far as BJ is concerned, he does have a few good characteristics.

    1. I don't believe he is personally prejudiced or racialist
    2. He has been absolutely solid on Ukraine and a great friend to President Zelenskyy

    These are things I care about. And can you say the same for Farage and Reform? I don't think so.

    So, if you don't want to see the British Right-of-Centre go the same way as the US, then Boris may be the only realistic solution. Fight fire with fire when it comes to competing with Farage. Do what Farage least wants to happen - the re-emergence of Boris as a competitor. Throw over the card table.

    Hardly ideal. But there we are. Pragmatism is the British way, after all.

    Boris coming back would be the end of Britain as a serious country.
    Britain is a serious country?
    Well yes quite.
    We are falling well behind now.
    Bucharest in Romania is as rich as Yorkshire now.
    Take London and the SE away and we are basically eastern european standards of living
    Yet there are thousands of eastern Europeans who live in Yorkshire and near zero Yorkshiremen who live in eastern Europe.

    Not to mention that London has a lower standard of living than Yorkshire:

    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/does-living-and-working-in-london-give-you-a-wealthier-lifestyle-c2fwsvxfl
    Those eastern europeans came when eastern europe was substantially poorer.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,252

    Have you noticed how quiet it is out and about.
    My local pub seems to have had business fall off a cliff since the start of April.
    My local coffee shop is quiet when it used to be packed.
    Seaside resorts are noticeably quieter.
    Something is brewing out there and it aint good.

    Is it as good as the potato vodka in Chelyabinsk?
    Did a 4 hour drive to the lakes for a long weekend this month and it was dead there too. Car parks normally full half empty and pubs quiet. Worrying.
    You should have tried visiting the beautiful cathedral in Salisbury.

    No queues at all.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,438

    isam said:

    Tories would be fools to fall for Boris Johnson again, writes Jenni Russell in The Times

    While Johnson dithers, wondering not what he could do for his country but what his country might do for him, the Tories must decide how to react; they would be culpable fools to fall for this hollow man a second time. The idea that Johnson is the route to Tory recovery is preposterous. He’s the root cause of their current collapse. He broke their brand. He promised to cut immigration only to drive it up by millions. He promised post-Brexit prosperity but made the country poorer. He promised levelling up but couldn’t be bothered, so delivered levelling down. He wrecked his party, expelling so many decent principled Tories that his successor was the catastrophic Truss. He pioneered the recklessness she tried to imitate. He modelled deception, charm and carelessness as a route to highest office. His betrayals have deepened the despairing political cynicism that pervades Britain now. The country has been damaged in every way by his legacy.

    If some inattentive voters have forgotten or forgiven this, Reform haven’t; a party led by Boris would be pulverised on his record. This is not 2016, and Johnson is yesterday’s man. This is no time for a dilettante. Britons are angry, scared and furious at politicians’ paralysis as their lives and prospects get worse. They’re looking for conviction, action, dynamism, and leaders who mean to do what they say.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/1d323e77-2eef-42b2-bf9b-af2dae00d230?shareToken=f530e93df83b65aaed3a941515844785

    He wrecked his party, expelling so many decent principled Tories that his successor was the catastrophic Truss.

    Can she name any of these people who she says were expelled ?
    Who is 'Jenni' Russell when she's at home?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenni_Russell
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