Draw your own conclusions, but Donald Trump is not behaving like a leader who expects democratic accountability for himself or his party next year or in 2028.
(1) Even if he does respect the Constitution, which seems most unlikely given his many crimes against it but is not impossible, he will face no further democratic accountability - if he’s not a dictator he’s term limited and if he is it’s irrelevant;
(2) The Republicans are not his party (historically he’s linked more to the Democrats). He’s only using them for his own ends, essentially ego, money, power lust and gratification thereof. Since he has never shown the slightest sign of caring for anyone or anything except himself and to a lesser extent one of his daughters, why should he care what happens to the Republicans?
Which begs the question, why are Republicans not up in arms?
@Scaramucci Why isn’t there more organized, dissent? Public servants need to explain the danger. It has to be elected officials getting together to stop this sort of crazy nonsense. A few Republicans could change the course of history and save their own party.
Because the remaining ones are either so cowed they won't oppose him or just as bad as he is.
Not doing the right things because you are afraid to is a political disease we find on both sides of the Atlantic. The current UK government also suffers from this, as do many others in Europe. It is totally destructive and self-defeating.
Indeed. Starmer knew from the moment May triggered Article 50 that Brexit would be a shit show. Now he is in Government he should be working hard to mitigate the disaster. Instead he has capitulated to Murdoch and Dacre. They hate him anyway so why doesn't he just ignore them.
He should have been working hard to "mitigate the disaster" in opposition too, instead of trying to create it.
There is not a great deal an opposition can do to mitigate a disastrous government policy other than criticise said policy or demand a referendum to overturn thre policy before it is implemented.
My point was since they have been given the opportunity to actually do something to make Brexit at least a little less dreadful, Labour have singularly failed (so far) to grasp the nettle.
Support an alternative instead of mindlessly blocking everything in a doomed attempt to overturn the biggest democratic vote in British history?
Insofar as what we have is a suboptimal settlement (and it's certainly not a disaster unless you're a committed Eurofederalist), it's at least in part because too many people on the losing side didn't actually accept that they had lost and spent years trying to reverse the loss instead of going "ok, we wouldn't have wanted to start from here but we're here now, what's the best way forward?"
That being the case, it probably shouldn't be a surprise that in government they haven't shown any ability to move forward.
The best thing about democracy is that we don’t have to accept shit
We do if more people choose shit than those who don't. The advisory, non- binding Brexit Referendum is a case in point.
Rare to see both adjectives that show the person is clueless deployed right next to each other.
A Reform victory in 28-29 is now basically nailed on (as those senior Labour staffers admit in the Guardian article today)
A sea-change in British politics, and one, I think, that we can all applaud. As we unite, as a nation, behind Big Nige
It's very early days. I'd keep the champagne on ice for now...
But even from this distance you can sense it, can’t you?
It’s like that first tiny, elusive, fugitive glimpse of spring in - yes - early February. When the sun suddenly feels a little bit warmer on your sorrowing face, and you turn your eyes towards it and you faintly smile, and realise: Yes, someday even this winter will end
It is faraway in the future; and yet it is now on the horizon; a precious promise to our children of better times to come
REFORM
I mean we might get a REF government and Farage as PM in 2029. I certainly would discount the possibility, but there's a lot of water to pass under the proverbial bridge yet.
We'll see. Time will tell. It always does...
To me this feels a bit like the post 1979 Tory government. You have an unpopular PM with a solid majority trying to clean up an horrific mess and tanking in the polls. You have the main opposition looking discredited and flailing. You have the added vigorish of a new party surging in the polls. The Falklands War disguised the fact that a few years in the Tories had turned a polling corner and were on their way to a probable second term. Labour performed terribly in 1983 but comfortably saw off the SDP in terms of seats. This is roughly my predicted scenario for 2028.
Shit! 18 years of Starmer to come? Call the Samaritans, Mabel! 😂
Stereodog seems to neglect to look at the specifics of the case. Thatcher was the 'change' right wing party after years of cosy but wholly ineffective post-war consensus. Labour were stongly left. The Alliance was in the mushy middle.
In today's politics, Starmer is not a change candidate - his Government is largely turbocharging all of Sunak's shittest policies. As the world goes right, Starmer's Government is a last redoubt of crappy Davos social democracy, with no solutions to today's problems. The rightward insurgency is Reform. And the Tories (so far) are the mushy middle, because they can't decide what they think.
So (as I think someone said on the Planet Normal pocast, it's not my original thought) Starmer is more like Jim Callaghan, coming in after a profligate Tory Government, but not having any solutions (at least none he can implement) due to being the Labour Party. He then gets swept away by a right wing insurgency. At the moment, the Tories don't want to be that, so it's a clear field for Reform.
The Planet Normal podcast, consisting of Allison Pearson and Liam Halligan, is not really my cup of tea, being a low-rent version of Triggernometry with Konstantin Kisin and that poor mute bloke. But if you want to listen to such, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJnf_DDTfIVC4Y-6d5MVBccDib2wsOhXa
I'm familiar with that podcast, thanks.
Not too familiar presumably. I mean, as in you've heard of it?
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
It also makes importing things blooming hard work.
Many EU companies refuse to export to the UK and vice versa because it's not worth the faff while every order I've made from the US/China in the past 6 months has arrived tax free uninspected...
Most Brexiters were economically idle and it’s perhaps no surprise that many of them claim it’s had no real effects.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
Question for PB brains: Are all these tariffs flying around likely to stoke up inflation globally or will they have an overall dampening effect on economic activity?
Quite possibly both. Soaring prices of some goods, plus a global recession.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
I wonder how close we are to the national veneration of the NHS breaking down, and people people open to smashing the temple walls?
I think that’s the danger zone that creates a potential Reform win: the country saying “sod, why not?” Tory, LibDem, and Labour all seen as failures.
If Farage got a majority he would soon scrap the NHS and replace it with an insurance model as he has long said is his preference
I don't believe the face eating leopard voters will note that prior to casting their vote. Just keep whacking them over the head with small boats and Farage can't go wrong.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
The “Tariff Lobby,” headed by the Globalist, and always wrong, Wall Street Journal, is working hard to justify Countries like Canada, Mexico, China, and too many others to name, continue the decades long RIPOFF OF AMERICA, both with regard to TRADE, CRIME, AND POISONOUS DRUGS that are allowed to so freely flow into AMERICA. THOSE DAYS ARE OVER! The USA has major deficits with Canada, Mexico, and China (and almost all countries!), owes 36 Trillion Dollars, and we’re not going to be the “Stupid Country” any longer. MAKE YOUR PRODUCT IN THE USA AND THERE ARE NO TARIFFS! Why should the United States lose TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SUBSIDIZING OTHER COUNTRIES, and why should these other countries pay a small fraction of the cost of what USA citizens pay for Drugs and Pharmaceuticals, as an example? THIS WILL BE THE GOLDEN AGE OF AMERICA! WILL THERE BE SOME PAIN? YES, MAYBE (AND MAYBE NOT!). BUT WE WILL MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, AND IT WILL ALL BE WORTH THE PRICE THAT MUST BE PAID. WE ARE A COUNTRY THAT IS NOW BEING RUN WITH COMMON SENSE — AND THE RESULTS WILL BE SPECTACULAR!!!
We pay hundreds of Billions of Dollars to SUBSIDIZE Canada. Why? There is no reason. We don’t need anything they have. We have unlimited Energy, should make our own Cars, and have more Lumber than we can ever use. Without this massive subsidy, Canada ceases to exist as a viable Country. Harsh but true! Therefore, Canada should become our Cherished 51st State. Much lower taxes, and far better military protection for the people of Canada — AND NO TARIFFS!
Absolutely raving nuts. Also dumb as a box of rocks.
Exactly! Canada should be the 51st through 63rd States (10 provinces and 3 Territories at present)
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
That wasn't intrinsic to a Leave vote - an awful lot of the bandwidth was consumed battling the sore losers, led, of course, by Starmer.
Draw your own conclusions, but Donald Trump is not behaving like a leader who expects democratic accountability for himself or his party next year or in 2028.
(1) Even if he does respect the Constitution, which seems most unlikely given his many crimes against it but is not impossible, he will face no further democratic accountability - if he’s not a dictator he’s term limited and if he is it’s irrelevant;
(2) The Republicans are not his party (historically he’s linked more to the Democrats). He’s only using them for his own ends, essentially ego, money, power lust and gratification thereof. Since he has never shown the slightest sign of caring for anyone or anything except himself and to a lesser extent one of his daughters, why should he care what happens to the Republicans?
Which begs the question, why are Republicans not up in arms?
@Scaramucci Why isn’t there more organized, dissent? Public servants need to explain the danger. It has to be elected officials getting together to stop this sort of crazy nonsense. A few Republicans could change the course of history and save their own party.
Because the remaining ones are either so cowed they won't oppose him or just as bad as he is.
Not doing the right things because you are afraid to is a political disease we find on both sides of the Atlantic. The current UK government also suffers from this, as do many others in Europe. It is totally destructive and self-defeating.
Indeed. Starmer knew from the moment May triggered Article 50 that Brexit would be a shit show. Now he is in Government he should be working hard to mitigate the disaster. Instead he has capitulated to Murdoch and Dacre. They hate him anyway so why doesn't he just ignore them.
He should have been working hard to "mitigate the disaster" in opposition too, instead of trying to create it.
There is not a great deal an opposition can do to mitigate a disastrous government policy other than criticise said policy or demand a referendum to overturn thre policy before it is implemented.
My point was since they have been given the opportunity to actually do something to make Brexit at least a little less dreadful, Labour have singularly failed (so far) to grasp the nettle.
Support an alternative instead of mindlessly blocking everything in a doomed attempt to overturn the biggest democratic vote in British history?
Insofar as what we have is a suboptimal settlement (and it's certainly not a disaster unless you're a committed Eurofederalist), it's at least in part because too many people on the losing side didn't actually accept that they had lost and spent years trying to reverse the loss instead of going "ok, we wouldn't have wanted to start from here but we're here now, what's the best way forward?"
That being the case, it probably shouldn't be a surprise that in government they haven't shown any ability to move forward.
The best thing about democracy is that we don’t have to accept shit
We do if more people choose shit than those who don't. The advisory, non- binding Brexit Referendum is a case in point.
Rare to see both adjectives that show the person is clueless deployed right next to each other.
I don't see why one can't magnify the point by utilising both. Still I am an ill educated serf and I bow to your greater knowledge.
Although I tend to resort to personal insults only when I find I have lost the argument.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
The “Tariff Lobby,” headed by the Globalist, and always wrong, Wall Street Journal, is working hard to justify Countries like Canada, Mexico, China, and too many others to name, continue the decades long RIPOFF OF AMERICA, both with regard to TRADE, CRIME, AND POISONOUS DRUGS that are allowed to so freely flow into AMERICA. THOSE DAYS ARE OVER! The USA has major deficits with Canada, Mexico, and China (and almost all countries!), owes 36 Trillion Dollars, and we’re not going to be the “Stupid Country” any longer. MAKE YOUR PRODUCT IN THE USA AND THERE ARE NO TARIFFS! Why should the United States lose TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SUBSIDIZING OTHER COUNTRIES, and why should these other countries pay a small fraction of the cost of what USA citizens pay for Drugs and Pharmaceuticals, as an example? THIS WILL BE THE GOLDEN AGE OF AMERICA! WILL THERE BE SOME PAIN? YES, MAYBE (AND MAYBE NOT!). BUT WE WILL MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, AND IT WILL ALL BE WORTH THE PRICE THAT MUST BE PAID. WE ARE A COUNTRY THAT IS NOW BEING RUN WITH COMMON SENSE — AND THE RESULTS WILL BE SPECTACULAR!!!
We pay hundreds of Billions of Dollars to SUBSIDIZE Canada. Why? There is no reason. We don’t need anything they have. We have unlimited Energy, should make our own Cars, and have more Lumber than we can ever use. Without this massive subsidy, Canada ceases to exist as a viable Country. Harsh but true! Therefore, Canada should become our Cherished 51st State. Much lower taxes, and far better military protection for the people of Canada — AND NO TARIFFS!
Absolutely raving nuts. Also dumb as a box of rocks.
Question for PB brains: Are all these tariffs flying around likely to stoke up inflation globally or will they have an overall dampening effect on economic activity?
Quite possibly both. Soaring prices of some goods, plus a global recession.
Wouldn’t that be fun?
NYT
“Analysts at Goldman Sachs have said that if Mr. Trump proceeds with across-the-board tariffs, it would both raise prices in the United States and slow economic growth.”
Question for PB brains: Are all these tariffs flying around likely to stoke up inflation globally or will they have an overall dampening effect on economic activity?
Quite possibly both. Soaring prices of some goods, plus a global recession.
The Kavernacle @thekavernacle.bsky.social 1d I'll say it while Americans are asleep - English speaking online spaces would be infinitely better off if Americans were banned from using them. We all know this is true.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
How does that work in the country that makes the most of use insurance based healthcare - i.e. the USA?
Although one thing I'm starting to pick up from your posts is that you are turning into a Reform voter...
No most OECD nations fund their healthcare largely via insurance. I agree with Reform on more than I agree with Labour but like Kemi I don’t want to withdraw from the ECHR unlike Farage, nor do I want an elected upper house to replace the Lords like he does. Reform are also quite Nimby
It is more a question of what kind of insurance scheme Reform might theoretically propose. This isn't something most of us know much about because we have the NHS model, but I strongly suspect that the systems prevalent in continental Europe are rather different to the American model, which exists solely to maximise shareholder value and where the middle classes fear bankruptcy if they fall seriously ill, the poor are simply abandoned to rot, and everyone is at risk of being fleeced by the marauding fleet of despised pirate insurers that will deploy every trick in the book to avoid paying out on a claim.
Do we think that the likes of Richard Tice are going to be inclined more towards social benefit or shareholder profit? Answers on a postcard.
Of course, Reform wouldn't actually dare propose killing off the NHS. It might be decaying, but at least it's free. Can you imagine what the typical Reform core voter, especially the elderly ones, would make of any plan to get rid of it? "But I paid my taxes!" rage and pure, absolute terror in roughly equal parts, I should imagine.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
It also makes importing things blooming hard work.
Many EU companies refuse to export to the UK and vice versa because it's not worth the faff while every order I've made from the US/China in the past 6 months has arrived tax free uninspected...
If they think it's not worth the faff, they're not good at their job. Exporting to the EU now is easier than exporting to the Channel Islands was in 2015.
Draw your own conclusions, but Donald Trump is not behaving like a leader who expects democratic accountability for himself or his party next year or in 2028.
(1) Even if he does respect the Constitution, which seems most unlikely given his many crimes against it but is not impossible, he will face no further democratic accountability - if he’s not a dictator he’s term limited and if he is it’s irrelevant;
(2) The Republicans are not his party (historically he’s linked more to the Democrats). He’s only using them for his own ends, essentially ego, money, power lust and gratification thereof. Since he has never shown the slightest sign of caring for anyone or anything except himself and to a lesser extent one of his daughters, why should he care what happens to the Republicans?
Which begs the question, why are Republicans not up in arms?
@Scaramucci Why isn’t there more organized, dissent? Public servants need to explain the danger. It has to be elected officials getting together to stop this sort of crazy nonsense. A few Republicans could change the course of history and save their own party.
Because the remaining ones are either so cowed they won't oppose him or just as bad as he is.
Not doing the right things because you are afraid to is a political disease we find on both sides of the Atlantic. The current UK government also suffers from this, as do many others in Europe. It is totally destructive and self-defeating.
Indeed. Starmer knew from the moment May triggered Article 50 that Brexit would be a shit show. Now he is in Government he should be working hard to mitigate the disaster. Instead he has capitulated to Murdoch and Dacre. They hate him anyway so why doesn't he just ignore them.
He should have been working hard to "mitigate the disaster" in opposition too, instead of trying to create it.
There is not a great deal an opposition can do to mitigate a disastrous government policy other than criticise said policy or demand a referendum to overturn thre policy before it is implemented.
My point was since they have been given the opportunity to actually do something to make Brexit at least a little less dreadful, Labour have singularly failed (so far) to grasp the nettle.
Support an alternative instead of mindlessly blocking everything in a doomed attempt to overturn the biggest democratic vote in British history?
Insofar as what we have is a suboptimal settlement (and it's certainly not a disaster unless you're a committed Eurofederalist), it's at least in part because too many people on the losing side didn't actually accept that they had lost and spent years trying to reverse the loss instead of going "ok, we wouldn't have wanted to start from here but we're here now, what's the best way forward?"
That being the case, it probably shouldn't be a surprise that in government they haven't shown any ability to move forward.
The best thing about democracy is that we don’t have to accept shit
We do if more people choose shit than those who don't. The advisory, non- binding Brexit Referendum is a case in point.
Rare to see both adjectives that show the person is clueless deployed right next to each other.
I don't see why one can't magnify the point by utilising both. Still I am an ill educated serf and I bow to your greater knowledge.
Although I tend to resort to personal insults only when I find I have lost the argument.
(1) Zero is not magnified when multiplied by zero
(2) Passing judgement on the quality of your argument is not a personal insult
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
It also makes importing things blooming hard work.
Many EU companies refuse to export to the UK and vice versa because it's not worth the faff while every order I've made from the US/China in the past 6 months has arrived tax free uninspected...
If they think it's not worth the faff, they're not good at their job. Exporting to the EU now is easier than exporting to the Channel Islands was in 2015.
Which is lovely but 90% of my comment was about the fact I can't import things from German suppliers the way I used to..
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
You're assuming that the politically resources of this country have a positive effect upon what they are applied.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
You're assuming that the politically resources of this country have a positive effect upon what they are applied.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
It also makes importing things blooming hard work.
Many EU companies refuse to export to the UK and vice versa because it's not worth the faff while every order I've made from the US/China in the past 6 months has arrived tax free uninspected...
If they think it's not worth the faff, they're not good at their job. Exporting to the EU now is easier than exporting to the Channel Islands was in 2015.
Which is lovely but 90% of my comment was about the fact I can't import things from German suppliers the way I used to..
Right, so why are imports from Germany considered "faff" when from the US and China they aren't? And why are exports from Germany specifically to the UK and not, say, Canada or Australia, considered "faff"?
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
It also makes importing things blooming hard work.
Many EU companies refuse to export to the UK and vice versa because it's not worth the faff while every order I've made from the US/China in the past 6 months has arrived tax free uninspected...
If they think it's not worth the faff, they're not good at their job. Exporting to the EU now is easier than exporting to the Channel Islands was in 2015.
Which is lovely but 90% of my comment was about the fact I can't import things from German suppliers the way I used to..
A recent study found that the range of goods now available from Europe has reduced by a third.
(Evident in the supermarket where you are no longer able to access the range of imported foods you used to).
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
That wasn't intrinsic to a Leave vote - an awful lot of the bandwidth was consumed battling the sore losers, led, of course, by Starmer.
Yes. And the ERG nutters. Whatever, it was a five year shitshow.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
You're assuming that the politically resources of this country have a positive effect upon what they are applied.
That looks doubtful, very doubtful to me.
Ha very good. Not really, but a germ of truth.
More than germ, a lot more.
How many problems have our various 'political resources' created in recent decades compared with how many have they solved ?
Economy, energy, social care, housing, transport, immigration, intergenerational inequality, Middle eastern warmongering ?
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
That wasn't intrinsic to a Leave vote - an awful lot of the bandwidth was consumed battling the sore losers, led, of course, by Starmer.
Yes. And the ERG nutters. But whatever, it was a 5 year shitshow.
Sure. But the ERG nutters in the end got cast as sane - or, at least, democratic - as they were the only people arguing to implement the referendum result come what may.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
That wasn't intrinsic to a Leave vote - an awful lot of the bandwidth was consumed battling the sore losers, led, of course, by Starmer.
Yes. And the ERG nutters. Whatever, it was a five year shitshow.
Two differences: the ERG won (and Starmer, whatever he renegotiates, will end up with a brexit harder than May's deal), and the ERG argued within the spirit of the democratic result, not against it.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
That wasn't intrinsic to a Leave vote - an awful lot of the bandwidth was consumed battling the sore losers, led, of course, by Starmer.
Yes. And the ERG nutters. Whatever, it was a five year shitshow.
Two differences: the ERG won (and Starmer, whatever he renegotiates, will end up with a brexit harder than May's deal), and the ERG argued within the spirit of the democratic result, not against it.
No, they didn’t. Few Brexit voters were motivated by the free trade Singapore on Thames spiel. They wanted an end to both immigration and NHS waiting lists. Just look at what they actually got, and you will see why so many now have buyer’s regret.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
It also makes importing things blooming hard work.
Many EU companies refuse to export to the UK and vice versa because it's not worth the faff while every order I've made from the US/China in the past 6 months has arrived tax free uninspected...
If they think it's not worth the faff, they're not good at their job. Exporting to the EU now is easier than exporting to the Channel Islands was in 2015.
Which is lovely but 90% of my comment was about the fact I can't import things from German suppliers the way I used to..
Right, so why are imports from Germany considered "faff" when from the US and China they aren't? And why are exports from Germany specifically to the UK and not, say, Canada or Australia, considered "faff"?
US and China are faff. Nobody considers them not to be. That is life and one has to do it if you want to export/import to them, but it hardly makes sense to then move all the easy import/export stuff to and from Europe from easy to faff as well does it?. That is bonkers.
As someone who actually did this the difference is huge. Carnets, for instance, if critical to your business is bring stuff back, particularly if it might not be in the same state eg If you are building large scale exhibitions or stages for instance your market was UK and Europe. Europe has now gone.
Moving Europe into the same difficult box as US and China makes no sense.
Also for those saying it makes no difference to people, just businesses, try now taking a pet to Europe (like we would like to do) or having a home abroad or doing a long break abroad. So for all three of those example:
a) You can no longer get a pet passport so no just popping in the car to make a trip. It takes proper planning. b) A friend rents out a villa in Portugal. His pool started leaking. He couldn't get out to fix it because he was up to his time limit and had clients coming in. c) Friends who made long term plans to touring Europe in a motor home had to return.
Question for PB brains: Are all these tariffs flying around likely to stoke up inflation globally or will they have an overall dampening effect on economic activity?
Quite possibly both. Soaring prices of some goods, plus a global recession.
Wouldn’t that be fun?
NYT
“Analysts at Goldman Sachs have said that if Mr. Trump proceeds with across-the-board tariffs, it would both raise prices in the United States and slow economic growth.”
This is a reasonable projection of the impact.
About $200 billion reduction in US GDP over Trump's term, $100 billion to Canadas much smaller economy. Some impact on inflation, but surprisingly little. It may well be that the biggest effect is on worsening trade friction.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
That wasn't intrinsic to a Leave vote - an awful lot of the bandwidth was consumed battling the sore losers, led, of course, by Starmer.
Yes. And the ERG nutters. Whatever, it was a five year shitshow.
Two differences: the ERG won (and Starmer, whatever he renegotiates, will end up with a brexit harder than May's deal), and the ERG argued within the spirit of the democratic result, not against it.
No, they didn’t. Few Brexit voters were motivated by the free trade Singapore on Thames spiel. They wanted an end to both immigration and NHS waiting lists. Just look at what they actually got, and you will see why so many now have buyer’s regret.
I always said that Brexit would not be a bust out but rather rust out.
And so it has proved, a constant drag on GDP but not a fatal one.
Question for PB brains: Are all these tariffs flying around likely to stoke up inflation globally or will they have an overall dampening effect on economic activity?
Quite possibly both. Soaring prices of some goods, plus a global recession.
Wouldn’t that be fun?
NYT
“Analysts at Goldman Sachs have said that if Mr. Trump proceeds with across-the-board tariffs, it would both raise prices in the United States and slow economic growth.”
For the sake of balance, what do they predict would be the increase in GDP if Canada were annexed by the USA?
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
You're assuming that the politically resources of this country have a positive effect upon what they are applied.
That looks doubtful, very doubtful to me.
Ha very good. Not really, but a germ of truth.
More than germ, a lot more.
How many problems have our various 'political resources' created in recent decades compared with how many have they solved ?
Economy, energy, social care, housing, transport, immigration, intergenerational inequality, Middle eastern warmongering ?
Lots of meddling mostly with a negative effect.
So better off without a government then. Fair enough. That's a valid point of view. I'm surprised though. I didn't have you down as an anarchist.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
That wasn't intrinsic to a Leave vote - an awful lot of the bandwidth was consumed battling the sore losers, led, of course, by Starmer.
Yes. And the ERG nutters. Whatever, it was a five year shitshow.
Two differences: the ERG won (and Starmer, whatever he renegotiates, will end up with a brexit harder than May's deal), and the ERG argued within the spirit of the democratic result, not against it.
But another difference. The ERG were part of the governing party whose leader (the PM) had negotiated the deal to leave. They had a greater duty to support it than the opposition (who btw also should have imo).
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
That wasn't intrinsic to a Leave vote - an awful lot of the bandwidth was consumed battling the sore losers, led, of course, by Starmer.
Yes. And the ERG nutters. But whatever, it was a 5 year shitshow.
Sure. But the ERG nutters in the end got cast as sane - or, at least, democratic - as they were the only people arguing to implement the referendum result come what may.
They blocked the exit deal their own PM had negotiated. They (and the DUP) are no less to blame for the prolonged chaos than the opposition parties and the handful of hard Con Remainers.
Question for PB brains: Are all these tariffs flying around likely to stoke up inflation globally or will they have an overall dampening effect on economic activity?
Quite possibly both. Soaring prices of some goods, plus a global recession.
Wouldn’t that be fun?
NYT
“Analysts at Goldman Sachs have said that if Mr. Trump proceeds with across-the-board tariffs, it would both raise prices in the United States and slow economic growth.”
Maybe I should have inverted my GDP growth entries in the PB competition...
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
NHS have apparently (not sure if this is on Foxy's radar too) announced to staff that around 10-15% of admin jobs are to go at NHS England.
So whether Farage is right or wrong he's missed the bus on that.
Natural wastage or huge payoffs at the taxpayers expense ?
Usually it's the first, but as a general rule with hiring freezes etc it is the most talented and able people that leave. This is because they have skills in demand elsewhere, while the duffers and timeservers don't get head-hunted.
In particular the private outsourcing services will cherry pick the NHSE staff from contracting. They are pretty rubbish at running services, but very sharp at writing tight contracts that guarantee profits.
Off Topic It looks like Trump wants Lebensraum. Is this the start of the Anschluss in Canada?
QTWTAIN
QTWTAI well not exactly, but there's a point in there. Trump wants control. He want other countries to kneel. And given the willingness of ordinary United States citizens to stand aside and let him do so, he can.
India on course for a massive score, with Sunak watching in the crowd.
There's a certain joy in England getting stuffed now given what the ECB have done to wreck the domestic game. Anything that makes that lying traitor Richard Gould unhappy can't be all bad!
Thanks for everybody's thoughts on the header. I would agree that a Parliamentary system does have a certain protection via leadership challenge or VONC, but on the other hand it is possible under FPTP to have a comfortable majority on only a third of the popular vote, far below what MAGA needed across the pond.
There is considerable ongoing risk though with the imbalance between an executive that rules via perogative powers, and stacked and truncated discussion in the Commons. The Lords is increasingly poor at scrutiny too, with new Lords being political henchmen and donors rather than able to revise poorly written legislation.
Question for PB brains: Are all these tariffs flying around likely to stoke up inflation globally or will they have an overall dampening effect on economic activity?
Quite possibly both. Soaring prices of some goods, plus a global recession.
Wouldn’t that be fun?
NYT
“Analysts at Goldman Sachs have said that if Mr. Trump proceeds with across-the-board tariffs, it would both raise prices in the United States and slow economic growth.”
Maybe I should have inverted my GDP growth entries in the PB competition...
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
NHS have apparently (not sure if this is on Foxy's radar too) announced to staff that around 10-15% of admin jobs are to go at NHS England.
So whether Farage is right or wrong he's missed the bus on that.
Natural wastage or huge payoffs at the taxpayers expense ?
Usually it's the first, but as a general rule with hiring freezes etc it is the most talented and able people that leave. This is because they have skills in demand elsewhere, while the duffers and timeservers don't get head-hunted.
In particular the private outsourcing services will cherry pick the NHSE staff from contracting. They are pretty rubbish at running services, but very sharp at writing tight contracts that guarantee profits.
I’m sure the NHS with all its CIPS trained Supply Chain teams will be equally adept at negotiating contracts and ensuring there are tight performance clauses in them.
A contract is agreed by two parties not just imposed.
As for the duffers if they are so poor why are they still there why aren’t HR managing their poor performance and getting them on performance plans and managing them out if needed ?
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving. Like Trump he would also slash civil servants and administrators
It would not be a big saving. You pay less tax, but you pay more insurance, so it about balances out… and a Faragian insurance system would probably be less efficient, so you pay more (cf. the US).
Black Doves is very entertaining. Great script, some brilliant characters
However a lot of it demands serious suspension of disbelief. Most unbelievable of all: the idea a humble Minister for Defence could live in a spectacular Georgian house in central-ish London
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
Unfortunately for you, @MattW - but luckily for the rest of us - you don’t get to decide how and where British voters place their cross
But surely if PB has come to 'a general view' according to MattW, that must very decidedly be that?
I know. The pomposity is equaled only by the total un-self awareness
Hilarious
One can, and should acknowledge that there's an element in Reform that is a kind of evolution of the old far right that's mutated into a kind of very online conspiracism. While staring that that's not why they have risen in the polls - nor is it the majority of their leadership or many activists, barring perhaps Anderson - who does enjoy having a paddle in those waters.
Not least as it's liable to cause them problems going forward, a la Farage's tiff with Musk over Tommy Robinson. There may come a point in their evolution when they have a choice between trying to usurp the Tories as a kind of Tebbit-ist, uncompromisingly old school right-wing party, but fundamentally getting real about stuff like spending and trade-offs to stand up to greater scrutiny.
Or going down the chaotic conspiracist "tear everything down regardless of the consequences, truth doesn't matter unless it's our truth" rather post-modernist right-wing route Trumpism 2.0 seems to now be the flagbearer for.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
How does that work in the country that makes the most of use insurance based healthcare - i.e. the USA?
Although one thing I'm starting to pick up from your posts is that you are turning into a Reform voter...
No most OECD nations fund their healthcare largely via insurance. I agree with Reform on more than I agree with Labour but like Kemi I don’t want to withdraw from the ECHR unlike Farage, nor do I want an elected upper house to replace the Lords like he does. Reform are also quite Nimby
It is more a question of what kind of insurance scheme Reform might theoretically propose. This isn't something most of us know much about because we have the NHS model, but I strongly suspect that the systems prevalent in continental Europe are rather different to the American model, which exists solely to maximise shareholder value and where the middle classes fear bankruptcy if they fall seriously ill, the poor are simply abandoned to rot, and everyone is at risk of being fleeced by the marauding fleet of despised pirate insurers that will deploy every trick in the book to avoid paying out on a claim.
Do we think that the likes of Richard Tice are going to be inclined more towards social benefit or shareholder profit? Answers on a postcard.
Of course, Reform wouldn't actually dare propose killing off the NHS. It might be decaying, but at least it's free. Can you imagine what the typical Reform core voter, especially the elderly ones, would make of any plan to get rid of it? "But I paid my taxes!" rage and pure, absolute terror in roughly equal parts, I should imagine.
It would have a lot to do with the insurers, too. The impression I have is that insurers in Europe are in business to insure people. Not confident insurers in the UK would follow that business model.
Draw your own conclusions, but Donald Trump is not behaving like a leader who expects democratic accountability for himself or his party next year or in 2028.
(1) Even if he does respect the Constitution, which seems most unlikely given his many crimes against it but is not impossible, he will face no further democratic accountability - if he’s not a dictator he’s term limited and if he is it’s irrelevant;
(2) The Republicans are not his party (historically he’s linked more to the Democrats). He’s only using them for his own ends, essentially ego, money, power lust and gratification thereof. Since he has never shown the slightest sign of caring for anyone or anything except himself and to a lesser extent one of his daughters, why should he care what happens to the Republicans?
Which begs the question, why are Republicans not up in arms?
@Scaramucci Why isn’t there more organized, dissent? Public servants need to explain the danger. It has to be elected officials getting together to stop this sort of crazy nonsense. A few Republicans could change the course of history and save their own party.
Because the remaining ones are either so cowed they won't oppose him or just as bad as he is.
Not doing the right things because you are afraid to is a political disease we find on both sides of the Atlantic. The current UK government also suffers from this, as do many others in Europe. It is totally destructive and self-defeating.
It's not so much being afraid to do them as afraid of the consequences - namely, losing the next election.
That's the point.
If Republicans don't stand up to Trump, they are gonna lose.
That is not really how American electoral politics works. You might well be right that the Republican Party will lose, but for each individual member of Congress, there is a more immediate question of personal re-election, and MAGA probably has enough influence to ensure you are at least challenged and probably replaced as GOP candidate – primaried as they call it. Country before party before self is a fine aspiration but mainly it's the other way round.
So if Republicans don't stand up to Trump, the party may lose, but anyone who does stand up to Trump almost certainly will lose. It is no coincidence that internal opposition to Trump pretty much falls to Mitch McConnell who is well into his 80s now and who protected Trump last time round when he did want to stand again.
Never underestimate the cowardice of GOP senators and representatives.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
How does that work in the country that makes the most of use insurance based healthcare - i.e. the USA?
Although one thing I'm starting to pick up from your posts is that you are turning into a Reform voter...
No most OECD nations fund their healthcare largely via insurance. I agree with Reform on more than I agree with Labour but like Kemi I don’t want to withdraw from the ECHR unlike Farage, nor do I want an elected upper house to replace the Lords like he does. Reform are also quite Nimby
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
Thanks for everybody's thoughts on the header. I would agree that a Parliamentary system does have a certain protection via leadership challenge or VONC, but on the other hand it is possible under FPTP to have a comfortable majority on only a third of the popular vote, far below what MAGA needed across the pond.
There is considerable ongoing risk though with the imbalance between an executive that rules via perogative powers, and stacked and truncated discussion in the Commons. The Lords is increasingly poor at scrutiny too, with new Lords being political henchmen and donors rather than able to revise poorly written legislation.
Thanks for the header, Foxy. A possible scenario is a majority Reform government, with red wall MPs (think many Lee Andersons) voting in a bloc to implement Trumpian policies. Would/could Farage stop them? It’s unlikely, but not impossible.
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
NHS have apparently (not sure if this is on Foxy's radar too) announced to staff that around 10-15% of admin jobs are to go at NHS England.
So whether Farage is right or wrong he's missed the bus on that.
NHS England lost 40% of its staff in the last Parliament, with the result that lots of thing didn’t get done. This is a false economy.
No, it's an economy. It is an understood and accepted outcome from staff cuts that less will be able to get done. In some cases it may even be a bonus.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
NHS have apparently (not sure if this is on Foxy's radar too) announced to staff that around 10-15% of admin jobs are to go at NHS England.
So whether Farage is right or wrong he's missed the bus on that.
Natural wastage or huge payoffs at the taxpayers expense ?
Usually it's the first, but as a general rule with hiring freezes etc it is the most talented and able people that leave. This is because they have skills in demand elsewhere, while the duffers and timeservers don't get head-hunted.
In particular the private outsourcing services will cherry pick the NHSE staff from contracting. They are pretty rubbish at running services, but very sharp at writing tight contracts that guarantee profits.
I’m sure the NHS with all its CIPS trained Supply Chain teams will be equally adept at negotiating contracts and ensuring there are tight performance clauses in them.
A contract is agreed by two parties not just imposed.
As for the duffers if they are so poor why are they still there why aren’t HR managing their poor performance and getting them on performance plans and managing them out if needed ?
HR will be happy to keep them in place if they don’t rock the boat and pass all their equality, diversity and H&S courses.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving. Like Trump he would also slash civil servants and administrators
It would not be a big saving. You pay less tax, but you pay more insurance, so it about balances out… and a Faragian insurance system would probably be less efficient, so you pay more (cf. the US).
The neoliberal belief that government functions can be better done by third-party entities overseen by offices has been tested over the last forty years. It failed. You get an initial sugar rush then enshittification, regulatory capture and bargaining games take over and it fails. Given this we should stop doing it.
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
NHS have apparently (not sure if this is on Foxy's radar too) announced to staff that around 10-15% of admin jobs are to go at NHS England.
So whether Farage is right or wrong he's missed the bus on that.
NHS England lost 40% of its staff in the last Parliament, with the result that lots of thing didn’t get done. This is a false economy.
No, it's an economy. It is an understood and accepted outcome from staff cuts that less will be able to get done. In some cases it may even be a bonus.
I work in digital health. There’s lots of talk of digital health delivering better services and cheaper cost, the Holy Grail! But national decision making on digital health has been very much stymied by NHS England job cuts. False economy.
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
Black Doves is very entertaining. Great script, some brilliant characters
However a lot of it demands serious suspension of disbelief. Most unbelievable of all: the idea a humble Minister for Defence could live in a spectacular Georgian house in central-ish London
I reviewed in a few weeks back: ‘absurd but entertaining’. It doesn’t make the mistake of taking itself at all seriously.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving. Like Trump he would also slash civil servants and administrators
It would not be a big saving. You pay less tax, but you pay more insurance, so it about balances out… and a Faragian insurance system would probably be less efficient, so you pay more (cf. the US).
The neoliberal belief that government functions can be better done by third-party entities overseen by offices has been tested over the last forty years. It failed. You get an initial sugar rush then enshittification, regulatory capture and bargaining games take over and it fails. Given this we should stop doing it.
That is a very succinct summary of several decades of UK politics.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
NHS have apparently (not sure if this is on Foxy's radar too) announced to staff that around 10-15% of admin jobs are to go at NHS England.
So whether Farage is right or wrong he's missed the bus on that.
Natural wastage or huge payoffs at the taxpayers expense ?
Usually it's the first, but as a general rule with hiring freezes etc it is the most talented and able people that leave. This is because they have skills in demand elsewhere, while the duffers and timeservers don't get head-hunted.
In particular the private outsourcing services will cherry pick the NHSE staff from contracting. They are pretty rubbish at running services, but very sharp at writing tight contracts that guarantee profits.
I’m sure the NHS with all its CIPS trained Supply Chain teams will be equally adept at negotiating contracts and ensuring there are tight performance clauses in them.
A contract is agreed by two parties not just imposed.
As for the duffers if they are so poor why are they still there why aren’t HR managing their poor performance and getting them on performance plans and managing them out if needed ?
I don't think that true. The widespread failures that we see in outsourcing companies are not just in the NHS. We seem them in prisons, PFI, schools, probation services, disability benefit assessments, children's homes, military recruitment and training and perhaps most spectacularly with the Post Office Counters scandal, yet the same companies repeatedly get new contracts and turn profits. The one thing that they are good at is writing contracts, and it's in large part because they pay more and devote more time to writing the contracts than the government quango signing them off.
Black Doves is very entertaining. Great script, some brilliant characters
However a lot of it demands serious suspension of disbelief. Most unbelievable of all: the idea a humble Minister for Defence could live in a spectacular Georgian house in central-ish London
I reviewed in a few weeks back: ‘absurd but entertaining’. It doesn’t make the mistake of taking itself at all seriously.
Yes. It also carries it all off in high style and makes you care - a bit - about the characters even tho it is basically a cartoon
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
"A massive corruption scandal (Systembolagshärvan) first gained widespread media attention in the autumn of 2003, with Systembolaget issuing its first press release regarding the preliminary investigations on 7 November 2003.[23] On 11 February 2005, 77 managers of Systembolaget stores were charged with receiving bribes from suppliers, and one of the largest trials in modern Swedish history followed. 18 managers were found guilty on 19 December, and then on 23 February another 15 managers were found guilty."
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
NHS have apparently (not sure if this is on Foxy's radar too) announced to staff that around 10-15% of admin jobs are to go at NHS England.
So whether Farage is right or wrong he's missed the bus on that.
Natural wastage or huge payoffs at the taxpayers expense ?
Usually it's the first, but as a general rule with hiring freezes etc it is the most talented and able people that leave. This is because they have skills in demand elsewhere, while the duffers and timeservers don't get head-hunted.
In particular the private outsourcing services will cherry pick the NHSE staff from contracting. They are pretty rubbish at running services, but very sharp at writing tight contracts that guarantee profits.
I’m sure the NHS with all its CIPS trained Supply Chain teams will be equally adept at negotiating contracts and ensuring there are tight performance clauses in them.
A contract is agreed by two parties not just imposed.
As for the duffers if they are so poor why are they still there why aren’t HR managing their poor performance and getting them on performance plans and managing them out if needed ?
I don't think that true. The widespread failures that we see in outsourcing companies are not just in the NHS. We seem them in prisons, PFI, schools, probation services, disability benefit assessments, children's homes, military recruitment and training and perhaps most spectacularly with the Post Office Counters scandal, yet the same companies repeatedly get new contracts and turn profits. The one thing that they are good at is writing contracts, and it's in large part because they pay more and devote more time to writing the contracts than the government quango signing them off.
On the other hand: the failures are noticeable, and need addressing. But the failures are noticed, and we ignore the vast majority of time when things just work.
There's also a tendency to think things were better in ye olden days. Often, they were not: and the failures often even more hidden than they are today.
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
Thanks for everybody's thoughts on the header. I would agree that a Parliamentary system does have a certain protection via leadership challenge or VONC, but on the other hand it is possible under FPTP to have a comfortable majority on only a third of the popular vote, far below what MAGA needed across the pond.
There is considerable ongoing risk though with the imbalance between an executive that rules via perogative powers, and stacked and truncated discussion in the Commons. The Lords is increasingly poor at scrutiny too, with new Lords being political henchmen and donors rather than able to revise poorly written legislation.
Thanks for the header, Foxy. A possible scenario is a majority Reform government, with red wall MPs (think many Lee Andersons) voting in a bloc to implement Trumpian policies. Would/could Farage stop them? It’s unlikely, but not impossible.
While Reform is the most likely party to go Trumpist it isn't the only possibility. We could envisage another massive clearout of experienced MPs happens at the next GE in favour of poorly vetted newbies, for example the new Independents caucusing with Corbyn.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving. Like Trump he would also slash civil servants and administrators
It would not be a big saving. You pay less tax, but you pay more insurance, so it about balances out… and a Faragian insurance system would probably be less efficient, so you pay more (cf. the US).
The neoliberal belief that government functions can be better done by third-party entities overseen by offices has been tested over the last forty years. It failed. You get an initial sugar rush then enshittification, regulatory capture and bargaining games take over and it fails. Given this we should stop doing it.
@l_stone #BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
That’s the third province in Canada to announce such retaliation to Trump’s tariffs (and two of the three premiers are Conservatives)
Imagine having a government Liquor Control Board decide what alcoholic drinks you can buy.
Deciding.
If that’s a grammatical correction, it’s unnecessary. Decide was fine.
Yes, Lucky is usually solid if rather 'trad' on grammar but here he errs.
The "decide" is actually better because of the preceding "having".
Without the "having" he'd have been correct to say "deciding" was the right word.
Though the sentence is ambigous, or at least has a double meaning. Does it mean imagine a person being in the postion of having it decided for them, or imagine being a goverment being the position of ordering such a situation.
Comments
Wouldn’t that be fun?
Although I tend to resort to personal insults only when I find I have lost the argument.
It will be the last totem standing.
“Analysts at Goldman Sachs have said that if Mr. Trump proceeds with across-the-board tariffs, it would both raise prices in the United States and slow economic growth.”
The Kavernacle @thekavernacle.bsky.social 1d
I'll say it while Americans are asleep - English speaking online spaces would be infinitely better off if Americans were banned from using them. We all know this is true.
The Kavernacle @thekavernacle.bsky.social 21h
thank you to the Americans agreeing here - we will think of you fondly once you are banned forever
https://bsky.app/profile/thekavernacle.bsky.social
Do we think that the likes of Richard Tice are going to be inclined more towards social benefit or shareholder profit? Answers on a postcard.
Of course, Reform wouldn't actually dare propose killing off the NHS. It might be decaying, but at least it's free. Can you imagine what the typical Reform core voter, especially the elderly ones, would make of any plan to get rid of it? "But I paid my taxes!" rage and pure, absolute terror in roughly equal parts, I should imagine.
(2) Passing judgement on the quality of your argument is not a personal insult
(3) Using "utilising" instead of "using"...
That looks doubtful, very doubtful to me.
Is that HQ and Corporate Services, or across Trusts?
I have a relation at one of the central units, who would probably welcome a retirement deal.
(Evident in the supermarket where you are no longer able to access the range of imported foods you used to).
How many problems have our various 'political resources' created in recent decades compared with how many have they solved ?
Economy, energy, social care, housing, transport, immigration, intergenerational inequality, Middle eastern warmongering ?
Lots of meddling mostly with a negative effect.
It looks like Trump wants Lebensraum. Is this the start of the Anschluss in Canada?
As someone who actually did this the difference is huge. Carnets, for instance, if critical to your business is bring stuff back, particularly if it might not be in the same state eg If you are building large scale exhibitions or stages for instance your market was UK and Europe. Europe has now gone.
Moving Europe into the same difficult box as US and China makes no sense.
Also for those saying it makes no difference to people, just businesses, try now taking a pet to Europe (like we would like to do) or having a home abroad or doing a long break abroad. So for all three of those example:
a) You can no longer get a pet passport so no just popping in the car to make a trip. It takes proper planning.
b) A friend rents out a villa in Portugal. His pool started leaking. He couldn't get out to fix it because he was up to his time limit and had clients coming in.
c) Friends who made long term plans to touring Europe in a motor home had to return.
Just rather more futile and ludicrous.
About $200 billion reduction in US GDP over Trump's term, $100 billion to Canadas much smaller economy. Some impact on inflation, but surprisingly little. It may well be that the biggest effect is on worsening trade friction.
And so it has proved, a constant drag on GDP but not a fatal one.
I have no idea how that will impact their work, which is around commissioning national services and quality control.
I'm actually surprised that 15% are in favour.
In particular the private outsourcing services will cherry pick the NHSE staff from contracting. They are pretty rubbish at running services, but very sharp at writing tight contracts that guarantee profits.
There is considerable ongoing risk though with the imbalance between an executive that rules via perogative powers, and stacked and truncated discussion in the Commons. The Lords is increasingly poor at scrutiny too, with new Lords being political henchmen and donors rather than able to revise poorly written legislation.
A contract is agreed by two parties not just imposed.
As for the duffers if they are so poor why are they still there why aren’t HR managing their poor performance and getting them on performance plans and managing them out if needed ?
However a lot of it demands serious suspension of disbelief. Most unbelievable of all: the idea a humble Minister for Defence could live in a spectacular Georgian house in central-ish London
#BREAKING: Ontario Premier Doug Ford announces starting Tuesday, the province is removing American products from LCBO shelves & also from its catalogue so restaurants and retailers can’t order or restock U.S. products. #onpoli
https://x.com/l_stone/status/1886047979301167465
@AllieRenison
That’s the third province in Canada to announce such retaliation to Trump’s tariffs (and two of the three premiers are Conservatives)
Not least as it's liable to cause them problems going forward, a la Farage's tiff with Musk over Tommy Robinson. There may come a point in their evolution when they have a choice between trying to usurp the Tories as a kind of Tebbit-ist, uncompromisingly old school right-wing party, but fundamentally getting real about stuff like spending and trade-offs to stand up to greater scrutiny.
Or going down the chaotic conspiracist "tear everything down regardless of the consequences, truth doesn't matter unless it's our truth" rather post-modernist right-wing route Trumpism 2.0 seems to now be the flagbearer for.
Good afternoon everybody.
“More than 70% of health spending across OECD countries is funded from public sources.”
https://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/immune/lupoid-onychodystrophy-dogs for those who want details.
@NotHoodlum
Honda and Toyota have made statements about the potential for quick assembly line shutdowns if tariffs were enacted.
Honda has manufacturing facilities in Ohio, Indiana, Alabama, and Georgia.
Toyota has production facilities in Kentucky, Alabama, and Mississippi.
Decide was fine.
It doesn’t make the mistake of taking itself at all seriously.
Very enjoyable. Hope they do another series
https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/coke/reporter/gbr
F.A.A.’s Main Warning System for Pilots Is Down, U.S. Official Says www.nytimes.com/2025/02/02/u... Mike ives
@elizabethodr.bsky.social
Wonder if Elon has his trusted people in the software...
"fixing it'??
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systembolaget
"A massive corruption scandal (Systembolagshärvan) first gained widespread media attention in the autumn of 2003, with Systembolaget issuing its first press release regarding the preliminary investigations on 7 November 2003.[23] On 11 February 2005, 77 managers of Systembolaget stores were charged with receiving bribes from suppliers, and one of the largest trials in modern Swedish history followed. 18 managers were found guilty on 19 December, and then on 23 February another 15 managers were found guilty."
Its easy if you try.
There's also a tendency to think things were better in ye olden days. Often, they were not: and the failures often even more hidden than they are today.
The "decide" is actually better because of the preceding "having".
Without the "having" he'd have been correct to say "deciding" was the right word.