Why oh why oh why didn't we just accept Dave's deal? Look, I know the bloke's a bit of a berk, but voting Brexit just to punish him really was cutting our nose to spite our face.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Meanwhile, this spectacularly sunny Sunday, todays Rawnsley:
Anger about the chancellor’s new commitment to back the expansion of the London airport and others is mingled with bewilderment. A lot of Labour people are scratching their heads trying to work out why she wants to burn political capital on a hugely contentious project that couldn’t possibly be complete until long after she’s done at the Treasury and Sir Keir is gone from Number 10.
Hostile fire was instant, will be continuous for years ahead and comes from several camps with which Labour has wanted to be friendly. Labour MPs and ministers[‘] crystal balls are darkening with a dystopian vista of years of protest and resistance to Heathrow expansion in inquiry rooms, the law courts and parliament, and from antagonistic Londoners and environmental activists. Half of the cabinet – including Darren Jones, the number two at the Treasury, and Sir Keir himself – voted against a third runway the last time the idea was put to parliament.
There are fierce arguments about whether Heathrow expansion would make a meaningful contribution to growth anyway and wildly varying estimates about how much it would cost. Heathrow’s previous plans were priced at about £14bn when an estimate was produced in 2014. At least double that number, probably triple it. If investors can be found to stump up that kind of cash, they will want a return. This will mean higher landing charges, which will most likely be passed on to customers in increased ticket prices. The chancellor asserts, but can’t possibly be confident, that planes will be landing on a third runway by 2035. That sounds worryingly similar to the vainglorious delivery timetable once claimed during the sorry saga called HS2.
Turning the Oxford-Cambridge arc into “Europe’s Silicon Valley” is aiming high and has its own controversies, but at least that is an ambition with plausible claims to be good for growth. Betting on Heathrow expansion looks like an excursion into political Death Valley.
Both Heathrow third runway, and a high speed rail link to the north were on the agenda when Blair took office in 1997.
Queuing to take off at Heathrow is the worst. Time just completely slows down. On @Leon's concept of noom (not the diet brand) I wonder whether he includes songs because this one does for me, I don't know why, somewhat unexplainable but definitely makes me miss my kids even though I'll see them again in a couple of days
I've wondered if Noom can be applied to art; obviously it is mostly relevant to architecture, but maybe painting, even music...
Certainly, English lacks words to describe spiritual states, perhaps because the British/English are a pragmatic, empirical people not given to religious passons, and when we do - the Reformation - it goes horribly wrong. Thus the language reflects its creators?
Consider all the many words for different kinds of snow, in Inuit; if we constantly experienced spiritual moments the way Greenlanders experience snow, we'd likely have a better lexicon to differentiate these raptures and miseries
Noom is one attempt to fill the gap
Yes. And given marks out of 10 for noom. 10s are scored by: The last 20 minutes of Act III of Die Walkure; the opening of Rosenkavalier; Ravel's Tombeau de Couperin; Bach's Passacaglia; Beethoven op 74 1st movement; Books 1 and 2 of Wordsworth's Prelude; everything Vermeer ever did; and some other things too.
OK let’s allow that
But then, much more interesting are artworks that have DARK Noom, remember that is the tingle of God’s absence, of something bleak, inhuman and wrong, some terrific yet ineffable sadness. Dark Noom can be found in death camps from Tuol Sleng to Trebklinka, or on the battlefields of Flanders, and across Virginia
Art with Dark Noom is a much rarer beast, vanishingly rare
I’d say
Some of the more famous works by the Young British Artists “Die Familie Schneider” Hopkins’ Terrible Sonnets have bright AND dark noom You could argue some of the more nihilistic examples of Drill, that vulgar, animalistic worship of violence, greed and misogyny, but I hate tainting G M Hopkins by putting Drill alongside his poetry
Dark noom? The marxist post modern German production of the Marriage of Figaro I sat through at the Edinburgh festival last year. I haven't recovered.
Good dark noom? Shostakovich's Leningrad symphony. Messiaen Quartet for the End of Time.
Interesting that Trump kingmaker and prolific tweeter @elonmusk has not commented on the imposition of massive tariffs on Canada and Mexico… and China …. 🧐
Here is Tesla just last week warning on the impact of tariffs on its profits and revenues…
Draw your own conclusions, but Donald Trump is not behaving like a leader who expects democratic accountability for himself or his party next year or in 2028.
(1) Even if he does respect the Constitution, which seems most unlikely given his many crimes against it but is not impossible, he will face no further democratic accountability - if he’s not a dictator he’s term limited and if he is it’s irrelevant;
(2) The Republicans are not his party (historically he’s linked more to the Democrats). He’s only using them for his own ends, essentially ego, money, power lust and gratification thereof. Since he has never shown the slightest sign of caring for anyone or anything except himself and to a lesser extent one of his daughters, why should he care what happens to the Republicans?
Which begs the question, why are Republicans not up in arms?
@Scaramucci Why isn’t there more organized, dissent? Public servants need to explain the danger. It has to be elected officials getting together to stop this sort of crazy nonsense. A few Republicans could change the course of history and save their own party.
Because the remaining ones are either so cowed they won't oppose him or just as bad as he is.
Not doing the right things because you are afraid to is a political disease we find on both sides of the Atlantic. The current UK government also suffers from this, as do many others in Europe. It is totally destructive and self-defeating.
Indeed. Starmer knew from the moment May triggered Article 50 that Brexit would be a shit show. Now he is in Government he should be working hard to mitigate the disaster. Instead he has capitulated to Murdoch and Dacre. They hate him anyway so why doesn't he just ignore them.
He should have been working hard to "mitigate the disaster" in opposition too, instead of trying to create it.
There is not a great deal an opposition can do to mitigate a disastrous government policy other than criticise said policy or demand a referendum to overturn thre policy before it is implemented.
My point was since they have been given the opportunity to actually do something to make Brexit at least a little less dreadful, Labour have singularly failed (so far) to grasp the nettle.
Support an alternative instead of mindlessly blocking everything in a doomed attempt to overturn the biggest democratic vote in British history?
Insofar as what we have is a suboptimal settlement (and it's certainly not a disaster unless you're a committed Eurofederalist), it's at least in part because too many people on the losing side didn't actually accept that they had lost and spent years trying to reverse the loss instead of going "ok, we wouldn't have wanted to start from here but we're here now, what's the best way forward?"
That being the case, it probably shouldn't be a surprise that in government they haven't shown any ability to move forward.
The best thing about democracy is that we don’t have to accept shit
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Draw your own conclusions, but Donald Trump is not behaving like a leader who expects democratic accountability for himself or his party next year or in 2028.
(1) Even if he does respect the Constitution, which seems most unlikely given his many crimes against it but is not impossible, he will face no further democratic accountability - if he’s not a dictator he’s term limited and if he is it’s irrelevant;
(2) The Republicans are not his party (historically he’s linked more to the Democrats). He’s only using them for his own ends, essentially ego, money, power lust and gratification thereof. Since he has never shown the slightest sign of caring for anyone or anything except himself and to a lesser extent one of his daughters, why should he care what happens to the Republicans?
Which begs the question, why are Republicans not up in arms?
@Scaramucci Why isn’t there more organized, dissent? Public servants need to explain the danger. It has to be elected officials getting together to stop this sort of crazy nonsense. A few Republicans could change the course of history and save their own party.
Because the remaining ones are either so cowed they won't oppose him or just as bad as he is.
Yebbut, why are they cowed?
If the threat from Trump is "I won't help you get elected next time" then they are screwed anyway.
Why not go out with some dignity?
As David Low put it, "They salute with both hands now."
The best time to disown Trump was 2016, the second best was 2021. Now they can't reject him without looking like idiots and having their faces eaten off by the leopards they raised in their face-eating leopard breeding programme.
Hypothesis: a fearty, vow breaking, Tory-lite Labour government is as damaging to the Union as a Johnson-led Tory one. Worse in a way as the ‘if only you vote for us progressives things will be better’ appeal is entirely gone.
Yet the SNP are also polling a pathetic 31%, 10% down on 2021 and well short of a majority even with the Greens.
They would therefore likely have to do a deal with Scottish Labour anyway to keep out Reform. Which would send some SNP voters to Alba ripping Scottish nationalism apart
I keep forgetting there’s arithmetic and HYUFD arithmetic.
So SNP projected to be 13 MSPs down on the 64 they won at the 2021 Holyrood election and of course the Greens aren’t in government with them now and Alba loathe Swinney too
As David Low put it, "They salute with both hands now."
The best time to disown Trump was 2016, the second best was 2021. Now they can't reject him without looking like idiots and having their faces eaten off by the leopards they raised in their face-eating leopard breeding programme.
Except the leopards eat their faces either way.
Do they lie down so the leopards get a better angle, or do they at least try and pretend they don't actually want their faces eaten?
Why oh why oh why didn't we just accept Dave's deal? Look, I know the bloke's a bit of a berk, but voting Brexit just to punish him really was cutting our nose to spite our face.
Now I can understand the rationale behind that. Dave explained to us our relationship with the EU was inequitable and disadvantageous. He went to Brussels and he returned with a blank sheet of paper and explained that this deal ensures our relationship with the EU is no longer inequitable and disadvantageous.
There seems to be quite a lot of confirmedly right wing folk pushing the Reform and Farage aren’t far right line. What can it mean?
It’s a statement of plain fact. They are not remotely “far right”
Of course serious far right parties exist in the west, and they are prospering. The AfD are definitely far right. Trump is arguable
Reform are cuddly in comparison to that. As someone else has said, they are basically the Tories from the late 1950s. They aren’t gonna build death camps or cancel democracy. We should count ourselves lucky if our inevitable populist right wing revolution - which is certainly coming, as it is coming to all western nations - only goes as far as Farage & Co
There seems to be quite a lot of confirmedly right wing folk pushing the Reform and Farage aren’t far right line. What can it mean?
Don't know about right wing folk, not being one unless homeless One Nation Tories are right wing, but I am suggesting it because Reform's actual documented policies are neither right nor far right. (Though they may have some people behind them who are of course).
Worth noting that despite a “fact sheet” from the White House announcing tariffs on goods from Canada, Mexico and China, the only executive action published so far is on Canada (they will apply from 4th Feb)
Interesting cos Canada and Mexico apparently coordinated their response, so Mexico might impose tariffs before Trump does
Draw your own conclusions, but Donald Trump is not behaving like a leader who expects democratic accountability for himself or his party next year or in 2028.
(1) Even if he does respect the Constitution, which seems most unlikely given his many crimes against it but is not impossible, he will face no further democratic accountability - if he’s not a dictator he’s term limited and if he is it’s irrelevant;
(2) The Republicans are not his party (historically he’s linked more to the Democrats). He’s only using them for his own ends, essentially ego, money, power lust and gratification thereof. Since he has never shown the slightest sign of caring for anyone or anything except himself and to a lesser extent one of his daughters, why should he care what happens to the Republicans?
Which begs the question, why are Republicans not up in arms?
@Scaramucci Why isn’t there more organized, dissent? Public servants need to explain the danger. It has to be elected officials getting together to stop this sort of crazy nonsense. A few Republicans could change the course of history and save their own party.
Because the remaining ones are either so cowed they won't oppose him or just as bad as he is.
Not doing the right things because you are afraid to is a political disease we find on both sides of the Atlantic. The current UK government also suffers from this, as do many others in Europe. It is totally destructive and self-defeating.
Indeed. Starmer knew from the moment May triggered Article 50 that Brexit would be a shit show. Now he is in Government he should be working hard to mitigate the disaster. Instead he has capitulated to Murdoch and Dacre. They hate him anyway so why doesn't he just ignore them.
He should have been working hard to "mitigate the disaster" in opposition too, instead of trying to create it.
There is not a great deal an opposition can do to mitigate a disastrous government policy other than criticise said policy or demand a referendum to overturn thre policy before it is implemented.
My point was since they have been given the opportunity to actually do something to make Brexit at least a little less dreadful, Labour have singularly failed (so far) to grasp the nettle.
Support an alternative instead of mindlessly blocking everything in a doomed attempt to overturn the biggest democratic vote in British history?
Insofar as what we have is a suboptimal settlement (and it's certainly not a disaster unless you're a committed Eurofederalist), it's at least in part because too many people on the losing side didn't actually accept that they had lost and spent years trying to reverse the loss instead of going "ok, we wouldn't have wanted to start from here but we're here now, what's the best way forward?"
That being the case, it probably shouldn't be a surprise that in government they haven't shown any ability to move forward.
The best thing about democracy is that we don’t have to accept shit
We do if more people choose shit than those who don't. The advisory, non- binding Brexit Referendum is a case in point.
Draw your own conclusions, but Donald Trump is not behaving like a leader who expects democratic accountability for himself or his party next year or in 2028.
(1) Even if he does respect the Constitution, which seems most unlikely given his many crimes against it but is not impossible, he will face no further democratic accountability - if he’s not a dictator he’s term limited and if he is it’s irrelevant;
(2) The Republicans are not his party (historically he’s linked more to the Democrats). He’s only using them for his own ends, essentially ego, money, power lust and gratification thereof. Since he has never shown the slightest sign of caring for anyone or anything except himself and to a lesser extent one of his daughters, why should he care what happens to the Republicans?
Which begs the question, why are Republicans not up in arms?
@Scaramucci Why isn’t there more organized, dissent? Public servants need to explain the danger. It has to be elected officials getting together to stop this sort of crazy nonsense. A few Republicans could change the course of history and save their own party.
Because the remaining ones are either so cowed they won't oppose him or just as bad as he is.
Not doing the right things because you are afraid to is a political disease we find on both sides of the Atlantic. The current UK government also suffers from this, as do many others in Europe. It is totally destructive and self-defeating.
It's not so much being afraid to do them as afraid of the consequences - namely, losing the next election.
That's the point.
If Republicans don't stand up to Trump, they are gonna lose.
That is not really how American electoral politics works. You might well be right that the Republican Party will lose, but for each individual member of Congress, there is a more immediate question of personal re-election, and MAGA probably has enough influence to ensure you are at least challenged and probably replaced as GOP candidate – primaried as they call it. Country before party before self is a fine aspiration but mainly it's the other way round.
So if Republicans don't stand up to Trump, the party may lose, but anyone who does stand up to Trump almost certainly will lose. It is no coincidence that internal opposition to Trump pretty much falls to Mitch McConnell who is well into his 80s now and who protected Trump last time round when he did want to stand again.
Interesting that Trump kingmaker and prolific tweeter @elonmusk has not commented on the imposition of massive tariffs on Canada and Mexico… and China …. 🧐
Here is Tesla just last week warning on the impact of tariffs on its profits and revenues…
That is not really how American electoral politics works. You might well be right that the Republican Party will lose, but for each individual member of Congress, there is a more immediate question of personal re-election, and MAGA probably has enough influence to ensure you are at least challenged and probably replaced as GOP candidate – primaried as they call it. Country before party before self is a fine aspiration but mainly it's the other way round.
So if Republicans don't stand up to Trump, the party may lose, but anyone who does stand up to Trump almost certainly will lose. It is no coincidence that internal opposition to Trump pretty much falls to Mitch McConnell who is well into his 80s now and who protected Trump last time round when he did want to stand again.
I don't think it's the fear of MAGA itself now but the fear of Trump friendly billionaires swamping any campaign with money.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
They aren’t gonna build death camps or cancel democracy.
They said the same thing about Trump
I dunno @Scott_xP - have you thought of ever - ever - EVER - saying something even a tiny bit funny, interesting, witty, illuminating, or insightful? Your entire commentary since 2016 - EIGHT FUCKING YEARS - has been one long pointless whine. Like someone with halitosis burping the alphabet
You are a tragic and ridiculous spectacle. Get the fuck over it
"Donald drove his daughter through Atlantic City and said, “Sweetie, someday your name will be on the top of all these buildings... ...If you marry a guy named Borgata.” -- Artie Lange at the Roast of Donald Trump, 2004.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
There seems to be quite a lot of confirmedly right wing folk pushing the Reform and Farage aren’t far right line. What can it mean?
It’s a statement of plain fact. They are not remotely “far right”
Of course serious far right parties exist in the west, and they are prospering. The AfD are definitely far right. Trump is arguable
Reform are cuddly in comparison to that. As someone else has said, they are basically the Tories from the late 1950s. They aren’t gonna build death camps or cancel democracy. We should count ourselves lucky if our inevitable populist right wing revolution - which is certainly coming, as it is coming to all western nations - only goes as far as Farage & Co
Farage is certainly not MacMillan who was trying to get us into the EEC, was pro immigration, didn’t want largely insurance funded healthcare and welfare like Farage but suppored the NHS and was a close ally of internationalist JFK who stood up to Russia not isolationist Trump who prefers Putin to most world leaders
Creative bankruptcies to stiff creditors is a standard part of a certain kind of business behaviour. See the back pages of Private Eye - filled with the doings of serial bankrupts/fraudsters.
'Mexico is considering carousel retaliation, which would periodically rotate the U.S. products subject to retaliatory tariffs. This generates uncertainty in U.S. export sectors and has a political impact - agriculture is likely to lobby Congress.'
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
The Reform leadership are economically Thatcherite. They don’t want power to deliver 1950s centrist social democratic policies. They might seem to promise that to their prospective voters, like Trump does, but they have no intention of delivering it.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Great header. I was rather hoping we have already had our Trump in the form of Boris Johnson. Agree with others that parliamentary system offers some good defences that Presidential systems lack.
6 more weeks of winter (well in Punxsutawney anyway)
Apparently it's originally a Northern European thing, if a bear or badger emerges from its burrow on Candlemas and sees its shadow, you will get 6 more weeks of winter. Which is not that unlikely as it only takes you to mid March. Basically, if 2 Feb is sunny, it's a false harbinger of spring
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
There seems to be quite a lot of confirmedly right wing folk pushing the Reform and Farage aren’t far right line. What can it mean?
It’s a statement of plain fact. They are not remotely “far right”
Of course serious far right parties exist in the west, and they are prospering. The AfD are definitely far right. Trump is arguable
Reform are cuddly in comparison to that. As someone else has said, they are basically the Tories from the late 1950s. They aren’t gonna build death camps or cancel democracy. We should count ourselves lucky if our inevitable populist right wing revolution - which is certainly coming, as it is coming to all western nations - only goes as far as Farage & Co
Far right (like progressive, liberal, nationalist etc) is a term very much in the eye of the beholder. Farage and his merry band of wife beaters and victims of anti-white racism have been and will be happy to be in step with Trump, Musk, AdF, Le Pen and all the other goblins. I know your own far rightnesss varies according to your fitness regime but surely you can see building Sobibor isn’t the only signifier of being far right.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
The Reform leadership are economically Thatcherite. They don’t want power to deliver 1950s centrist social democratic policies. They might seem to promise that to their prospective voters, like Trump does, but they have no intention of delivering it.
Vote Reform and you'll be disappointed. There may be spillover to Reform from the inevitable disappointment in Trump by his voters.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
The Reform leadership are economically Thatcherite. They don’t want power to deliver 1950s centrist social democratic policies. They might seem to promise that to their prospective voters, like Trump does, but they have no intention of delivering it.
It'll be fascinating to see if they can get away with a platform that offers anything other than a high spending state without being found out. They can bang on about classic hate figures like immigrants, the disabled and the unemployed, but half the entire budget for health care, social security and adult social care all gets spent on the over 65s. A key segment of Reform's core vote is reactionary old Boomers, many or most of whom would be sunk by a cost-cutting drive in any of these areas. Angry white men on low-to-middling incomes in Brexity towns won't be thrilled at the prospect of being presented with doctor's bills either.
Hard to know with the Trump Tariffs whether Trump is really dumb - and truly doesn't understand that they only get paid by US consumers - or whether he is one of the seven deadly demons visited upon America and is doing it for shitz n gigglez/his rich buddies said it would be a great idea.
Whichever, not sure it will play out for all of them. I wouldn't want to be a Tesla franchise owner in Canada.
Tariffs against industrial imports is how Germany successfully mechanised its economy, and afaicr a large part of how America did the same. It is a shibboleth of both left and right in Britain (the left because such a thing smacks of boorish nationalism, the right because of the influence of Maggie) that tariffs are an abomination, but the fact is that sometimes they work. The free market is a powerful and magical way to distribute resources, but if one player is more advanced and well-resourced, a completely free market will play to their advantage, as it did for Britain in the 19th century, hence powerful enough rivals introducing barriers so that they could develop their own industries.
You can use tariffs to protect a specific industry you want to nurture in your own country. Many countries have done this successfully.
Blanket tariffs on every single import are ultimately self-defeating: Autarchy is not the route to prosperity.
A tariff of 25% is not a trade embargo. It's the same as the level of VAT in Sweden.
It's a bit like saying "if I hit you in the face it's not murder". True, but still unpleasant and worrying.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving. Like Trump he would also slash civil servants and administrators
Great header. I was rather hoping we have already had our Trump in the form of Boris Johnson. Agree with others that parliamentary system offers some good defences that Presidential systems lack.
Yes, Trump leveraged his base to get the GOP nomination and with that, hey presto, a good shot at the presidency, which he converted. A multiparty system with MAGA as just one contender would have made it much harder for him.
Great header. I was rather hoping we have already had our Trump in the form of Boris Johnson. Agree with others that parliamentary system offers some good defences that Presidential systems lack.
We can learn a lot from both Boris and Starmer. On day one of their administrations they had majorities that should mean they could do anything they wanted with more power even then Trump. It has never felt like that though. Hard to say why.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
TBF there might be a good reason why an article about politics went unnoticed in... March 2020... and nothing to do with the merits, or otherwise, of the writing
I know. My timing was sub-optimal. But I was right then and what I said applies even more now. It is worth rereading those articles because they discuss directly both what @Foxy has written about in his excellent header and what is being discussed BTL.
One thing I am good at is spotting the start of what will turn out to be bloody great scandals or disasters (see the Online Safety Bill, for instance). The Cassandra of PB, that's me.
I have not read your article yet. I have read Foxy's but I find the opposite to be the issue in Britain - not a lack of restrictions on an elected leader - a surfeit of restrictions. We hear daily of our central bank's disastrous record, our civil service's useless or outright malicious activities, Natural England killing the economy for bats or jumping spiders, toothless regulators with a revolving door into water company directorships, the Supreme Court taking extraordinary steps into the realm of politics with judicial reviews. We ultimately blame the elected Government for the lack of progress, yet these bodies are proudly 'independent' and make a virtue of resisting/ignoring politicians, and by extension ignoring the democratically expressed wishes of the population. That is my concern, not that a politician gets in who causes a rumpus. I bloody hope they do shake things up - will they shake things up enough is my question.
The response to your point about lawfare is the one I made in this header in the AD Bill -
"This Bill will undoubtedly lead to legal challenge, followed by the usual complaints that lawyers and judges are acting like legislators. Well, legislators should bloody well do their job properly then if they don’t like that. It is time for Parliament to rediscover its moral compass, its proper role in the democratic process and insist that this possible change be debated, consulted on and scrutinised properly, thoroughly and evidence called from all affected parties. If that takes time, so be it."
And yet some of the BTL responses were to the effect that expecting proper scrutiny was somehow an impertinence. Well if you don't have it during Parliament you'll get it elsewhere. Unless of course by "shaking things up" you mean the person at the top doing what they want without any scrutiny at all.
I don't think 'legislators doing their job properly', though it would be good, is an effective solution for legal mission creep and quasi independent bodies expanding their empires.
The British constitution was something that had evolved over (edit - centuries). We thought it was just stuffy men wearing wigs and should all go the way of stays and crinolines, but actually it was really important. The Lord Chancellor as the country's supreme judge sitting within the Cabinet was important because it prevented judges from acting to stymie the will - even the central purpose, of an elected Government. The Government being able to set base interest rates was another important power - we now have that handled entirely by a completely non accountable body. We've had Chancellors be sacked, Governments been brought down, all on the strength of interest rates and inflation, yet the Governor of the Bank of England continues in post without so much as a sneering editorial from Private Eye.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
How does that work in the country that makes the most of use insurance based healthcare - i.e. the USA?
Although one thing I'm starting to pick up from your posts is that you are turning into a Reform voter...
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
A Reform victory in 28-29 is now basically nailed on (as those senior Labour staffers admit in the Guardian article today)
A sea-change in British politics, and one, I think, that we can all applaud. As we unite, as a nation, behind Big Nige
It's very early days. I'd keep the champagne on ice for now...
But even from this distance you can sense it, can’t you?
It’s like that first tiny, elusive, fugitive glimpse of spring in - yes - early February. When the sun suddenly feels a little bit warmer on your sorrowing face, and you turn your eyes towards it and you faintly smile, and realise: Yes, someday even this winter will end
It is faraway in the future; and yet it is now on the horizon; a precious promise to our children of better times to come
REFORM
I mean we might get a REF government and Farage as PM in 2029. I certainly would discount the possibility, but there's a lot of water to pass under the proverbial bridge yet.
We'll see. Time will tell. It always does...
To me this feels a bit like the post 1979 Tory government. You have an unpopular PM with a solid majority trying to clean up an horrific mess and tanking in the polls. You have the main opposition looking discredited and flailing. You have the added vigorish of a new party surging in the polls. The Falklands War disguised the fact that a few years in the Tories had turned a polling corner and were on their way to a probable second term. Labour performed terribly in 1983 but comfortably saw off the SDP in terms of seats. This is roughly my predicted scenario for 2028.
Shit! 18 years of Starmer to come? Call the Samaritans, Mabel! 😂
Stereodog seems to neglect to look at the specifics of the case. Thatcher was the 'change' right wing party after years of cosy but wholly ineffective post-war consensus. Labour were stongly left. The Alliance was in the mushy middle.
In today's politics, Starmer is not a change candidate - his Government is largely turbocharging all of Sunak's shittest policies. As the world goes right, Starmer's Government is a last redoubt of crappy Davos social democracy, with no solutions to today's problems. The rightward insurgency is Reform. And the Tories (so far) are the mushy middle, because they can't decide what they think.
So (as I think someone said on the Planet Normal pocast, it's not my original thought) Starmer is more like Jim Callaghan, coming in after a profligate Tory Government, but not having any solutions (at least none he can implement) due to being the Labour Party. He then gets swept away by a right wing insurgency. At the moment, the Tories don't want to be that, so it's a clear field for Reform.
The Planet Normal podcast, consisting of Allison Pearson and Liam Halligan, is not really my cup of tea, being a low-rent version of Triggernometry with Konstantin Kisin and that poor mute bloke. But if you want to listen to such, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJnf_DDTfIVC4Y-6d5MVBccDib2wsOhXa
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
A Reform victory in 28-29 is now basically nailed on (as those senior Labour staffers admit in the Guardian article today)
A sea-change in British politics, and one, I think, that we can all applaud. As we unite, as a nation, behind Big Nige
It's very early days. I'd keep the champagne on ice for now...
But even from this distance you can sense it, can’t you?
It’s like that first tiny, elusive, fugitive glimpse of spring in - yes - early February. When the sun suddenly feels a little bit warmer on your sorrowing face, and you turn your eyes towards it and you faintly smile, and realise: Yes, someday even this winter will end
It is faraway in the future; and yet it is now on the horizon; a precious promise to our children of better times to come
REFORM
I mean we might get a REF government and Farage as PM in 2029. I certainly would discount the possibility, but there's a lot of water to pass under the proverbial bridge yet.
We'll see. Time will tell. It always does...
To me this feels a bit like the post 1979 Tory government. You have an unpopular PM with a solid majority trying to clean up an horrific mess and tanking in the polls. You have the main opposition looking discredited and flailing. You have the added vigorish of a new party surging in the polls. The Falklands War disguised the fact that a few years in the Tories had turned a polling corner and were on their way to a probable second term. Labour performed terribly in 1983 but comfortably saw off the SDP in terms of seats. This is roughly my predicted scenario for 2028.
Shit! 18 years of Starmer to come? Call the Samaritans, Mabel! 😂
Stereodog seems to neglect to look at the specifics of the case. Thatcher was the 'change' right wing party after years of cosy but wholly ineffective post-war consensus. Labour were stongly left. The Alliance was in the mushy middle.
In today's politics, Starmer is not a change candidate - his Government is largely turbocharging all of Sunak's shittest policies. As the world goes right, Starmer's Government is a last redoubt of crappy Davos social democracy, with no solutions to today's problems. The rightward insurgency is Reform. And the Tories (so far) are the mushy middle, because they can't decide what they think.
So (as I think someone said on the Planet Normal pocast, it's not my original thought) Starmer is more like Jim Callaghan, coming in after a profligate Tory Government, but not having any solutions (at least none he can implement) due to being the Labour Party. He then gets swept away by a right wing insurgency. At the moment, the Tories don't want to be that, so it's a clear field for Reform.
The Planet Normal podcast, consisting of Allison Pearson and Liam Halligan, is not really my cup of tea, being a low-rent version of Triggernometry with Konstantin Kisin and that poor mute bloke. But if you want to listen to such, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJnf_DDTfIVC4Y-6d5MVBccDib2wsOhXa
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
How does that work in the country that makes the most of use insurance based healthcare - i.e. the USA?
Although one thing I'm starting to pick up from your posts is that you are turning into a Reform voter...
No most OECD nations fund their healthcare largely via insurance. I agree with Reform on more than I agree with Labour but like Kemi I don’t want to withdraw from the ECHR unlike Farage, nor do I want an elected upper house to replace the Lords like he does. Reform are also quite Nimby
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
Question for PB brains: Are all these tariffs flying around likely to stoke up inflation globally or will they have an overall dampening effect on economic activity?
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
To be fair, NHS waiting lists could also be abolished by the simple expedient of abolishing the NHS (conveniently permitting the creation of the flat tax utopia, the main beneficiaries of which would be - colour me shocked - high earners.)
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
What does the Very Stable Genius have to say this morning (in the US)?
The “Tariff Lobby,” headed by the Globalist, and always wrong, Wall Street Journal, is working hard to justify Countries like Canada, Mexico, China, and too many others to name, continue the decades long RIPOFF OF AMERICA, both with regard to TRADE, CRIME, AND POISONOUS DRUGS that are allowed to so freely flow into AMERICA. THOSE DAYS ARE OVER! The USA has major deficits with Canada, Mexico, and China (and almost all countries!), owes 36 Trillion Dollars, and we’re not going to be the “Stupid Country” any longer. MAKE YOUR PRODUCT IN THE USA AND THERE ARE NO TARIFFS! Why should the United States lose TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SUBSIDIZING OTHER COUNTRIES, and why should these other countries pay a small fraction of the cost of what USA citizens pay for Drugs and Pharmaceuticals, as an example? THIS WILL BE THE GOLDEN AGE OF AMERICA! WILL THERE BE SOME PAIN? YES, MAYBE (AND MAYBE NOT!). BUT WE WILL MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, AND IT WILL ALL BE WORTH THE PRICE THAT MUST BE PAID. WE ARE A COUNTRY THAT IS NOW BEING RUN WITH COMMON SENSE — AND THE RESULTS WILL BE SPECTACULAR!!!
We pay hundreds of Billions of Dollars to SUBSIDIZE Canada. Why? There is no reason. We don’t need anything they have. We have unlimited Energy, should make our own Cars, and have more Lumber than we can ever use. Without this massive subsidy, Canada ceases to exist as a viable Country. Harsh but true! Therefore, Canada should become our Cherished 51st State. Much lower taxes, and far better military protection for the people of Canada — AND NO TARIFFS!
Absolutely raving nuts. Also dumb as a box of rocks.
A Reform victory in 28-29 is now basically nailed on (as those senior Labour staffers admit in the Guardian article today)
A sea-change in British politics, and one, I think, that we can all applaud. As we unite, as a nation, behind Big Nige
It's very early days. I'd keep the champagne on ice for now...
But even from this distance you can sense it, can’t you?
It’s like that first tiny, elusive, fugitive glimpse of spring in - yes - early February. When the sun suddenly feels a little bit warmer on your sorrowing face, and you turn your eyes towards it and you faintly smile, and realise: Yes, someday even this winter will end
It is faraway in the future; and yet it is now on the horizon; a precious promise to our children of better times to come
REFORM
I mean we might get a REF government and Farage as PM in 2029. I certainly would discount the possibility, but there's a lot of water to pass under the proverbial bridge yet.
We'll see. Time will tell. It always does...
To me this feels a bit like the post 1979 Tory government. You have an unpopular PM with a solid majority trying to clean up an horrific mess and tanking in the polls. You have the main opposition looking discredited and flailing. You have the added vigorish of a new party surging in the polls. The Falklands War disguised the fact that a few years in the Tories had turned a polling corner and were on their way to a probable second term. Labour performed terribly in 1983 but comfortably saw off the SDP in terms of seats. This is roughly my predicted scenario for 2028.
Shit! 18 years of Starmer to come? Call the Samaritans, Mabel! 😂
Stereodog seems to neglect to look at the specifics of the case. Thatcher was the 'change' right wing party after years of cosy but wholly ineffective post-war consensus. Labour were stongly left. The Alliance was in the mushy middle.
In today's politics, Starmer is not a change candidate - his Government is largely turbocharging all of Sunak's shittest policies. As the world goes right, Starmer's Government is a last redoubt of crappy Davos social democracy, with no solutions to today's problems. The rightward insurgency is Reform. And the Tories (so far) are the mushy middle, because they can't decide what they think.
So (as I think someone said on the Planet Normal pocast, it's not my original thought) Starmer is more like Jim Callaghan, coming in after a profligate Tory Government, but not having any solutions (at least none he can implement) due to being the Labour Party. He then gets swept away by a right wing insurgency. At the moment, the Tories don't want to be that, so it's a clear field for Reform.
The Planet Normal podcast, consisting of Allison Pearson and Liam Halligan, is not really my cup of tea, being a low-rent version of Triggernometry with Konstantin Kisin and that poor mute bloke. But if you want to listen to such, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJnf_DDTfIVC4Y-6d5MVBccDib2wsOhXa
I'm familiar with that podcast, thanks.
I assumed that, but the other PBers aren't, so I thought I'd spread the joy.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
Question for PB brains: Are all these tariffs flying around likely to stoke up inflation globally or will they have an overall dampening effect on economic activity?
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
Question for PB brains: Are all these tariffs flying around likely to stoke up inflation globally or will they have an overall dampening effect on economic activity?
IANAE but it is, of course, possible to have both at the same time. Hence the portmanteau 'stagflation.'
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
Unfortunately for you, @MattW - but luckily for the rest of us - you don’t get to decide how and where British voters place their cross
But surely if PB has come to 'a general view' according to MattW, that must very decidedly be that?
I'd be interested if your view differs ... and the basis for the numbers you suggest.
The numbers we debated when I raised were around previous votes going to BNP type parties, and polling amongst Reform supporters. That's where part of the Reform vote comes from; a larger part comes from previously UKIP-type support - which was just under 13% in the 2015 General Election.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
I think that's rather naive, tbh. It is not firmly anti-racist in practice.
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
is very interesting. They are becoming a threat because the people starting to sympathise with it are not racists or extremes. It's mostly about the incompetence of all the others.
I expect Reform to continue its process of detoxifying, deTrumpifying and making it clear that it is an old fashioned 1950s centrist social democratic party + nationalist + low migration policy + firmly anti racist (sotto voce: who have eccentric members some of them extreme, uncosted Noddy economics and no core of leaders, and no actual evidence of competence).
Already all this 'Far Right wing' stuff loks very old fashioned.
Reform is Thatcherite on economics and nationalist on culture and immigration.
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Reform isn't Thatcherite on economics. It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K Extra £17b for the NHS Tax relief on school fees Big tax cuts for small businesses IHT threshold raised to £2m
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for? Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform. But you'll be disappointed.
Farage is open to replacing the NHS with an insurance model and raising tax thresholds, tax relief on school fees and tax cuts for small businesses are Thatcherite policies too
Not if they are unfounded. Thatcher believed in sound money policies. Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
Farage wants to fund healthcare with insurance, which could largely end taxpayer funds for the NHS and be a big saving
That's not in their policy document. This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
I can genuinely say the only impact Brexit has had on my life is that I now have to get a stamp in my passport when I go to Europe. Something I actually quite like. Admittedly, it seems to have impacted you more than most though.
Its had minimal impact on my life and where I work too. A couple of suppliers changed to FOB from DDP aside from that nothing much.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
I doubt it's had any impact upon Scott's life, either. People get worked up online about all sorts of things that don't impact upon them.
Yes, the secret truth of Brexit is that very few people have noticed any real difference.
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
It absorbed virtually all the political resource of the country for half a decade. That in itself is a huge cost. You'd expect big tangible benefits as a result. If the very best one can conclude is that the impact is no big deal either way the project can only be deemed a fail.
It also makes importing things blooming hard work.
Many EU companies refuse to export to the UK and vice versa because it's not worth the faff while every order I've made from the US/China in the past 6 months has arrived tax free uninspected...
Comments
Brexiteers before the vote" "This will be brilliant"
Remainers now: "This is shit"
Brexiteers now: "Waaaaaaaaaaaa. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. Waaaaaaaaaaaa"
If you want social democracy or to rejoin the EU or single market or customs Union and a closer relationship with the EU you will vote Labour or LD. If you want socialism Green. If you want soft Brexit Thatcherism with a bit of anti woke for Badenoch’s Conservatives.
Reform is the party for hard Brexit anti woke hardline anti immigration types who are mostly Thatcherites too
Good dark noom? Shostakovich's Leningrad symphony. Messiaen Quartet for the End of Time.
He isn't. He's a narcissist.
Psychopaths have above average intelligence.
I’m not explaining the economics of tariffs to people who think workplace diversity crashes planes.
The best time to disown Trump was 2016, the second best was 2021. Now they can't reject him without looking like idiots and having their faces eaten off by the leopards they raised in their face-eating leopard breeding programme.
Do they lie down so the leopards get a better angle, or do they at least try and pretend they don't actually want their faces eaten?
“I’ll run the country like a business.” - DJT
Trump Taj Mahal
bankruptcy 1991
Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino: bankruptcy 1992
Trump Castle Hotel and Casino: bankruptcy 1992
Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts: bankruptcy 2004
Trump Entertainment Resorts: bankruptcy 2009
Of course serious far right parties exist in the west, and they are prospering. The AfD are definitely far right. Trump is arguable
Reform are cuddly in comparison to that. As someone else has said, they are basically the Tories from the late 1950s. They aren’t gonna build death camps or cancel democracy. We should count ourselves lucky if our inevitable populist right wing revolution - which is certainly coming, as it is coming to all western nations - only goes as far as Farage & Co
@AllieRenison
Worth noting that despite a “fact sheet” from the White House announcing tariffs on goods from Canada, Mexico and China, the only executive action published so far is on Canada (they will apply from 4th Feb)
Interesting cos Canada and Mexico apparently coordinated their response, so Mexico might impose tariffs before Trump does
So if Republicans don't stand up to Trump, the party may lose, but anyone who does stand up to Trump almost certainly will lose. It is no coincidence that internal opposition to Trump pretty much falls to Mitch McConnell who is well into his 80s now and who protected Trump last time round when he did want to stand again.
The biggest impact I’ve seen is online forums, like this, with the odd diehard FBPE Brexit obsessive ranting about it endlessly. FBPE and Brexit are two terms I muted on twitter ad my experience there is all the better for it.
You are a tragic and ridiculous spectacle. Get the fuck over it
It is proposing to provide lots of unfunded goodies including:
Raising personal allowance for income tax to £20K
Raising stamp duty threshold to £750K
Extra £17b for the NHS
Tax relief on school fees
Big tax cuts for small businesses
IHT threshold raised to £2m
https://www.reformparty.uk/policies
Very attractive shop window. But how's it going to be paid for?
Where is the costed balanced budget?
If you want free goodies, vote Reform.
But you'll be disappointed.
How can I put this?
Get the fuck over me...
'Mexico is considering carousel retaliation, which would periodically rotate the U.S. products subject to retaliatory tariffs. This generates uncertainty in U.S. export sectors and has a political impact - agriculture is likely to lobby Congress.'
https://bylinetimes.com/2025/01/27/nigel-farages-latest-nhs-comments-spark-fresh-scrutiny-of-reform-uks-health-policy/
“someone with halitosis burping the alphabet”
Move on...
Agree with others that parliamentary system offers some good defences that Presidential systems lack.
Fucking hell, what was he like *before*?
Remainers before the vote: "The EU is shit but we can't live without it"
Brexiteers before the vote: "Yes we can"
Remainers now: "The EU is brilliant and we can't live without it"
Brexiteers now: "You what?"
Reform not so much. Reform would borrow the money. A bit like the last Tory Government.
I know your own far rightnesss varies according to your fitness regime but surely you can see building Sobibor isn’t the only signifier of being far right.
There may be spillover to Reform from the inevitable disappointment in Trump by his voters.
However, they are a bunch of grifters selling kool-aid to the terminally deluded.
To get an outright majority of 1 Reform would need 30%, 35% would give Reform a landslide with over 400 seats
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_reform_20241231.html
This annoys some who were Brexiteers because it was not a cure all. It also annoys many who were Remainers because the world has not ended, so they keep looking for edge cases to get excited over.
In reality the impact is a bit of irritation in export focused sectors who had got used to not having to think of EU sales as exports, and a tiny impact on GDP; but we are now so far into the counterfactual no one knows by how much. Certainly, looking at EU economic performance it’s hard to argue that continued membership would have seen us do any better.
The continued tears are because those who know what the process of joining the EU would mean also know us doing so is now inconceivable.
Wittering on about it is a waste of everyone’s time.
The British constitution was something that had evolved over (edit - centuries). We thought it was just stuffy men wearing wigs and should all go the way of stays and crinolines, but actually it was really important. The Lord Chancellor as the country's supreme judge sitting within the Cabinet was important because it prevented judges from acting to stymie the will - even the central purpose, of an elected Government. The Government being able to set base interest rates was another important power - we now have that handled entirely by a completely non accountable body. We've had Chancellors be sacked, Governments been brought down, all on the strength of interest rates and inflation, yet the Governor of the Bank of England continues in post without so much as a sneering editorial from Private Eye.
Although one thing I'm starting to pick up from your posts is that you are turning into a Reform voter...
This is what they say about the NHS. More unfunded goodies.
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/reformuk/pages/253/attachments/original/1718625371/Reform_UK_Our_Contract_with_You.pdf?1718625371
That’s you, that is
Reform borrow their deliberately race-baiting rhetoric from the BNP / Yaxley-Lennon and similar places.
Their claimed platform is around 'traditional conservatism', yet the thing is riddled with Far / Extreme / Radical / Hard (choose your word) Right. At the last Election they only addressed a fraction of the candidates over whom questions were raised.
Reform appointed as their Staffordshire organiser (a lynchpin figure) one David Hyden-Milakovic, who was exposed 3 weeks ago as being associated with Patriotic Alternative *, who are a neo-Nazi group. Details over at Hope not Hate.
When we've debated on PB, we've come to a (I suggest) general view that perhaps 15-20% of Reform support is of that stripe, and there are significant numbers seeking to use Reform UK as a way to promote such views.
There's may be a place for Reform UK on the sharp edge of the mainstream Right, in a kind of UKIP-before-they-went-loopy position - but not until they clean house, and keep it clean. I don't see that happening under the current leadership. If they don't they risk a PR mess in April / May.
* BBC Radio have just done a series of programmes with one of their reporters who was underground inside Patriotic Alternative for a year.
* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0lz0zxryygo
I think that’s the danger zone that creates a potential Reform win: the country saying “sod, why not?” Tory, LibDem, and Labour all seen as failures.
https://ifs.org.uk/articles/reform-uk-manifesto-reaction
If you have a coherent comment on the points I make, do let me know
Absolutely raving nuts. Also dumb as a box of rocks.
Hilarious
The numbers we debated when I raised were around previous votes going to BNP type parties, and polling amongst Reform supporters. That's where part of the Reform vote comes from; a larger part comes from previously UKIP-type support - which was just under 13% in the 2015 General Election.
Matt's 15% doesn't look a bad call to me. Touch generous if anything. It means 85% aren't.
The Conservatives, Lib Dems, and Labour are just as full of shit people as Reform are.
In the 2nd stage of his reforms, The Donald (PBUH) should insist on the return of the Second R
So whether Farage is right or wrong he's missed the bus on that.
Many EU companies refuse to export to the UK and vice versa because it's not worth the faff while every order I've made from the US/China in the past 6 months has arrived tax free uninspected...