Senatus Populusque – Previewing November’s other elections – politicalbetting.com
Options
Comments
-
Along with an incorrect name too.TheScreamingEagles said:
The disinformation was primarily that he was an illegal/boat person.williamglenn said:
We were told that it was disinformation to link the crime to Islamist terrorism. Now it seems to be the truth.bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.0 -
Do you know when they were found? What's your source?MoonRabbit said:
Seriously? It’s not just this week the rice in the Tupperware and a manual was found is it? These were found hours after the attack.spudgfsh said:
I suspect she found out quite late on. even with high profile cases like this there'd be little to no communication with the home secretary about operational matters.Big_G_NorthWales said:No 10 denying prior knowledge of the decision by the CPS to charge the suspect with terrorism
I expect an urgent question to the Home Secretary asking when she knew ricin and the Al Quaeda manual had been discovered in the suspects house
I’m with Big G on this one. Urgent Ricingate questions for Cooper to answer, what did she know and when.0 -
NPC - people who do not thinkDecrepiterJohnL said:
What does Dominic Cummings mean by NPC in this tweet?maaarsh said:https://x.com/Dominic2306/status/1851291937531445396
Who could possibly have predicted that the 'mainstream' official sources/media were lying as usual about crime, terrorism, Islam. No10 will have known the truth almost immediately the police did, which will have been almost immediately.
And who could possibly have predicted that the NPC pundits like Freedman and Portes and Katwala peddled all the official bullshit 24/7 while babbling the whole time about 'disinformation' and 'Islamophobia' from 'fascists' like
@elonmusk
& demanding people be locked up for spreading 'disinformation'!!!!
NPC pundits ARE THE DISINFORMATION.
It's being shoved out cos of the budget & US election, hoping most voters don't see how they were lied to by the official system yet again.
*The system is working as intended*1 -
The manual could have been encrypted and significant time taken to decrypt etc. The ricin would have needed samples taken and testing. We don't know when the first inklings were that maybe it was terror related.bondegezou said:
Do you know when they were found? What's your source?MoonRabbit said:
Seriously? It’s not just this week the rice in the Tupperware and a manual was found is it? These were found hours after the attack.spudgfsh said:
I suspect she found out quite late on. even with high profile cases like this there'd be little to no communication with the home secretary about operational matters.Big_G_NorthWales said:No 10 denying prior knowledge of the decision by the CPS to charge the suspect with terrorism
I expect an urgent question to the Home Secretary asking when she knew ricin and the Al Quaeda manual had been discovered in the suspects house
I’m with Big G on this one. Urgent Ricingate questions for Cooper to answer, what did she know and when.0 -
The police were lambasted for saying "no comment". The racists complain of the police don't say anything. The racists complain if the police day something and get it wrong when later facts come to light.turbotubbs said:
And to be clear I am not suggesting that they have not been upfront. However they get into difficulties because of the rush to the phrase "not treating as terrorism (related)" when it later turns out to be. Don't give the racists the chance. Just say "no comment" or "its too early to say". We should all be able to respect the police enough to let them do their job.bondegezou said:
There is zero evidence so far that the authorities have not been 100% upfront. They weren't treating it as terrorism; they subsequently found further evidence.turbotubbs said:
On one level three beautiful kids were murdered and that's the important bit. Quite what drove the evil bastard to do it is less important. But there is a problem if we get the impression that the authorities are not being 100 % upfront. They may have their reasons, but if feeds narratives.tlg86 said:Jenrick straight into it:
https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1851294780304863449
There is a parallel with Rochdale and the other "asian grooming gangs' where all too often a narrative has developed of cover-up etc.
They said he wasn't an immigrant or an asylum seeker. He wasn't an immigrant or an asylum seeker. The rioters targeted asylum seekers, remember?
I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
People trying to twist this to suit their narrative are the ones who are not being 100% upfront.
Maybe the solution here is not to pander to racists?0 -
That forthcoming byelection is going to be a bloodbath, and not just if Mike Amesbury has had a few.2
-
I think for the same reason most Muslims chose to call ISIS by the perjorative Daesh.turbotubbs said:
It doesn't bother me. I just wonder why people do it.kamski said:
If the real name is as well-known and you don't like act - why on earth not? Why does it bother you is the more interesting questionturbotubbs said:
And do you refer to everyone who has a stage name in the same way?Anabobazina said:
That is his name: Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. Tommy Robinson is just a stage name, he was tried under his real name.turbotubbs said:
The guy is an arse, but why do you choose to use that name, rather than the name he uses?Anabobazina said:
....carnforth said:
You can also get it - through Sky budget subsidiary Now, at least - without a contract. I pay £35 twice a year for the two months the Tennis is on Sky.turbotubbs said:
I tend to agree. Back when I had more time (young son mitigates against any free time) I would watch Swindon or Bath Rugby on a weekend. Easily 30-50 quid, depending on extras etc. Thats a month of footy, some rugby, cricket and all the rest. Well worth it. And currently its ALL the sport I get to watch...Anabobazina said:
Sky Sports is also very cheap for what you get. It is by far the best value of any subscription TV service, about £30-40 pcm for 4k UHD sports of all kinds. If you like sport, it really is a no-brainer, such that I find it hard to understand why some purported sports fans avoid it (unless they are skint, in which case fair enough).LostPassword said:
The Sky Sports contract is £220m per year. It's a lot of money.DavidL said:
If it had not been I frankly think we would have a lot of our best cricketers on the various T20 franchises earning proper money and simply not wasting their time playing test cricket. Be careful what you wish for.Andy_JS said:Test cricket should never been taken off the list of sports that had to be shown on free-to-air TV imo.
At £150 per ticket, for four days play, two Test matches at Lords (capacity 31,100) and one each at the Oval (27,500), Edgbaston (25,000), Trent Bridge (17,500), Headingley (18,350) and Old Trafford (26,000) you would generate just under £106m in gross revenue, but that's shared with the host ground, there are staging costs, and sometimes matches ends early or are disrupted by rain.
It is hard to see how cricket in England could replace the Sky money. This kinda places Sky in a weird situation. They could drive a hard bargain, because there's no-one willing to pay half as much, but if they do so the game could really struggle, and they'd have a less valuable spectacle to show viewers.
Yaxley-Lennon was jailed for contempt of court.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Names have power, and Tommy Robinson is clearly an evocative name. For someone seeking to avoid conferring the power of that name onto the person using it, avoiding using that name is logical, if only minimally effective.0 -
Seems she is also commentingmaaarsh said:
Meanwhile centrist Kemi maintaining her standoffish say nothing stance, except to suggest that this justifies her saying nothing whilst the misinformation was being spread by the establishment.Luckyguy1983 said:
It's called opposition.tlg86 said:Jenrick straight into it:
https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1851294780304863449
"Keir Starmer must urgently explain to the country what he knew about the Southport attack and when he learned it."
https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1851289607394247082?t=zVJYt62Ykrxw1vSYA_pwfQ&s=190 -
We have still to hear anything much about the strange case of the solider stabber, which was also part of the mix that led to the riots.
That was very odd one. Still unclear if he was stabbed because of being a solider, or was it a targeted stabbing on specifically him.0 -
https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/tlg86 said:
By giving the impression that it wasn't terrorism when it so obviously was terrorism.Malmesbury said:
They should be bowling at them, Shirley?tlg86 said:
Heads should roll over this. Utterly disgraceful for the police to go into bat for terrorists.FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
What "go into bat for terrorists" are you referring to?
There have been some suggestions that having the above in your browser history..... Congrats on getting on the MI5 list, by the way.
What they have is someone who went postal. Who had an Alans Snackbarist manual on his hard drive and tried to produce ricin. It's quite possible he was a nutter looking for a template for his insanity. Rather than an actual Jihadist.0 -
If a bomb had gone off, would the authorities have not treated that as terrorism?0
-
It's amazing how many people have noms des plume, whatever the online name equivalent is...Anabobazina said:
Yes, only Grant Shapps has more aliases than Yaxley-Lennon.kenObi said:
He's had 5 different names or alias.turbotubbs said:
The guy is an arse, but why do you choose to use that name, rather than the name he uses?Anabobazina said:
....carnforth said:
You can also get it - through Sky budget subsidiary Now, at least - without a contract. I pay £35 twice a year for the two months the Tennis is on Sky.turbotubbs said:
I tend to agree. Back when I had more time (young son mitigates against any free time) I would watch Swindon or Bath Rugby on a weekend. Easily 30-50 quid, depending on extras etc. Thats a month of footy, some rugby, cricket and all the rest. Well worth it. And currently its ALL the sport I get to watch...Anabobazina said:
Sky Sports is also very cheap for what you get. It is by far the best value of any subscription TV service, about £30-40 pcm for 4k UHD sports of all kinds. If you like sport, it really is a no-brainer, such that I find it hard to understand why some purported sports fans avoid it (unless they are skint, in which case fair enough).LostPassword said:
The Sky Sports contract is £220m per year. It's a lot of money.DavidL said:
If it had not been I frankly think we would have a lot of our best cricketers on the various T20 franchises earning proper money and simply not wasting their time playing test cricket. Be careful what you wish for.Andy_JS said:Test cricket should never been taken off the list of sports that had to be shown on free-to-air TV imo.
At £150 per ticket, for four days play, two Test matches at Lords (capacity 31,100) and one each at the Oval (27,500), Edgbaston (25,000), Trent Bridge (17,500), Headingley (18,350) and Old Trafford (26,000) you would generate just under £106m in gross revenue, but that's shared with the host ground, there are staging costs, and sometimes matches ends early or are disrupted by rain.
It is hard to see how cricket in England could replace the Sky money. This kinda places Sky in a weird situation. They could drive a hard bargain, because there's no-one willing to pay half as much, but if they do so the game could really struggle, and they'd have a less valuable spectacle to show viewers.
Yaxley-Lennon was jailed for contempt of court.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Best to use his originl name to avoid confusion.
Maybe you can chip into his crowd funder if its hurt his feelings
Weirdly, though, Yaxley-Lennon's latest moniker 'Tommy Robinson' is rather weirdly named after a real person. Tommy Robinson was/is a Luton Town football hooligan.
1 -
It may be for Labour but there's no guarantee the Conservatives will be the beneficiaries - indeed, Reform look much better placed.Luckyguy1983 said:That forthcoming byelection is going to be a bloodbath, and not just if Mike Amesbury has had a few.
One could even argue Labour could try to aqueeze Lib Dem, Green AND Conservative votes on a "Stop Reform" ticket.
We'll see.0 -
After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.0 -
"not treating as terrorism (related)" is not saying that it's definitely not terrorism, or terrorist-motivated, just that there isn't evidence at present to say that it is. It seems like a reasonable form of words to me.bondegezou said:
The police were lambasted for saying "no comment". The racists complain of the police don't say anything. The racists complain if the police day something and get it wrong when later facts come to light.turbotubbs said:
And to be clear I am not suggesting that they have not been upfront. However they get into difficulties because of the rush to the phrase "not treating as terrorism (related)" when it later turns out to be. Don't give the racists the chance. Just say "no comment" or "its too early to say". We should all be able to respect the police enough to let them do their job.bondegezou said:
There is zero evidence so far that the authorities have not been 100% upfront. They weren't treating it as terrorism; they subsequently found further evidence.turbotubbs said:
On one level three beautiful kids were murdered and that's the important bit. Quite what drove the evil bastard to do it is less important. But there is a problem if we get the impression that the authorities are not being 100 % upfront. They may have their reasons, but if feeds narratives.tlg86 said:Jenrick straight into it:
https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1851294780304863449
There is a parallel with Rochdale and the other "asian grooming gangs' where all too often a narrative has developed of cover-up etc.
They said he wasn't an immigrant or an asylum seeker. He wasn't an immigrant or an asylum seeker. The rioters targeted asylum seekers, remember?
I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
People trying to twist this to suit their narrative are the ones who are not being 100% upfront.
Maybe the solution here is not to pander to racists?0 -
To someone who has done chemistry, the world is full of "Put this, this and this in a bucket and you get...."turbotubbs said:
One of my colleagues used to be in possession of mg scale amounts of a drug CC1065 that would kill hundreds in the right environment and be almost undetectable (binds to DNA causing multi-organ failure a few months after administration). The way he talks about what terrorists ought to do is fascinating/scary at the same time.Selebian said:
A chemistry degree would appear to fall under that!carnforth said:
True, but:williamglenn said:
Producing ricin is not just possessing pdfs.carnforth said:
Also:carnforth said:
"Not being treated as terrorism". Not quite the same. I suppose they could start saying "Not currently being treated as terrorism".FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related.
"However, police have not declared the events of 29 July a terrorist incident. "For a matter to be declared as a terrorist incident, motivation would need to be established," Chief Constable Kennedy said."
So we're charging people just for having PDFs on their hard drives again. Lucky no-one went around checking hard drives for the Anarchist's Cookbook when I was a teenager.
"He also faces a terror charge of possession of information "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000"."
Someone could be charged with that alone. They probably wouldn't be, but they could be - and that's not right.1 -
Do you think every detail of a police investigation should be conducted in public? Do you think media reporting should avoid prejudicing the outcome of a trial?eek said:
The discovery of Ricin - alongside which Guido is claiming he knew on Friday and was ordered not to publish...bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
The effective administration of justice requires some things to be not made public until a charging decision is made.
I call that appropriate. Do you call that a "cover up"?1 -
Bollocks. They should have said "we are not ruling anything out at this stage".david_herdson said:
"not treating as terrorism (related)" is not saying that it's definitely not terrorism, or terrorist-motivated, just that there isn't evidence at present to say that it is. It seems like a reasonable form of words to me.bondegezou said:
The police were lambasted for saying "no comment". The racists complain of the police don't say anything. The racists complain if the police day something and get it wrong when later facts come to light.turbotubbs said:
And to be clear I am not suggesting that they have not been upfront. However they get into difficulties because of the rush to the phrase "not treating as terrorism (related)" when it later turns out to be. Don't give the racists the chance. Just say "no comment" or "its too early to say". We should all be able to respect the police enough to let them do their job.bondegezou said:
There is zero evidence so far that the authorities have not been 100% upfront. They weren't treating it as terrorism; they subsequently found further evidence.turbotubbs said:
On one level three beautiful kids were murdered and that's the important bit. Quite what drove the evil bastard to do it is less important. But there is a problem if we get the impression that the authorities are not being 100 % upfront. They may have their reasons, but if feeds narratives.tlg86 said:Jenrick straight into it:
https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1851294780304863449
There is a parallel with Rochdale and the other "asian grooming gangs' where all too often a narrative has developed of cover-up etc.
They said he wasn't an immigrant or an asylum seeker. He wasn't an immigrant or an asylum seeker. The rioters targeted asylum seekers, remember?
I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
People trying to twist this to suit their narrative are the ones who are not being 100% upfront.
Maybe the solution here is not to pander to racists?0 -
They were found in the suspects home and no doubt the timeline will be established and that is one of the questions Cooper will no doubt be askedbondegezou said:
Do you know when they were found? What's your source?MoonRabbit said:
Seriously? It’s not just this week the rice in the Tupperware and a manual was found is it? These were found hours after the attack.spudgfsh said:
I suspect she found out quite late on. even with high profile cases like this there'd be little to no communication with the home secretary about operational matters.Big_G_NorthWales said:No 10 denying prior knowledge of the decision by the CPS to charge the suspect with terrorism
I expect an urgent question to the Home Secretary asking when she knew ricin and the Al Quaeda manual had been discovered in the suspects house
I’m with Big G on this one. Urgent Ricingate questions for Cooper to answer, what did she know and when.1 -
"Non-player character". A recent and somewhat unpleasant repurposing of a phrase by people who wish to demean their opponents. Implies that the person is not actually a human with thoughts and feelings, but instead a caricature incapable of pain.DecrepiterJohnL said:
What does Dominic Cummings mean by NPC in this tweet?maaarsh said:https://x.com/Dominic2306/status/1851291937531445396
Who could possibly have predicted that the 'mainstream' official sources/media were lying as usual about crime, terrorism, Islam. No10 will have known the truth almost immediately the police did, which will have been almost immediately.
And who could possibly have predicted that the NPC pundits like Freedman and Portes and Katwala peddled all the official bullshit 24/7 while babbling the whole time about 'disinformation' and 'Islamophobia' from 'fascists' like
@elonmusk
& demanding people be locked up for spreading 'disinformation'!!!!
NPC pundits ARE THE DISINFORMATION.
It's being shoved out cos of the budget & US election, hoping most voters don't see how they were lied to by the official system yet again.
*The system is working as intended*0 -
You're defending them on the grounds that they were probably incompetent and took months to make the discovery?bondegezou said:
Do you know when they were found? What's your source?MoonRabbit said:
Seriously? It’s not just this week the rice in the Tupperware and a manual was found is it? These were found hours after the attack.spudgfsh said:
I suspect she found out quite late on. even with high profile cases like this there'd be little to no communication with the home secretary about operational matters.Big_G_NorthWales said:No 10 denying prior knowledge of the decision by the CPS to charge the suspect with terrorism
I expect an urgent question to the Home Secretary asking when she knew ricin and the Al Quaeda manual had been discovered in the suspects house
I’m with Big G on this one. Urgent Ricingate questions for Cooper to answer, what did she know and when.1 -
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.1 -
Tommy Multiple Names is following the Cult Victimology Plan. Do something to upset a court - such as harassing witnesses during a legal case. Keep doing it until the court reacts. Ignore the "don't do X" prohibition. Then claim to be a Promethean Victim when you get sent down for repeatedly being a dick.turbotubbs said:
Tommy is in prison because he broke a court order about something else. I suspect deliberately.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.1 -
I don't understand why this isn't being treated as terrorism, the guy had ricin and a terrorist handbook, he's a terrorist and killed children in an act of terrorism. What are the police afraid of?3
-
When I was doing my A-Level chemistry I was paired up with this Chinese kid. Very smart, but had only just arrived in the UK and his English wasn't very good and had shall we say a very lax approach to health and safety....using the fume cupboard was seen as unnecessary hassle, as was bothering to measure things...150ml...300ml, same thing...i just double everything else...Malmesbury said:
To someone who has done chemistry, the world is full of "Put this, this and this in a bucket and you get...."turbotubbs said:
One of my colleagues used to be in possession of mg scale amounts of a drug CC1065 that would kill hundreds in the right environment and be almost undetectable (binds to DNA causing multi-organ failure a few months after administration). The way he talks about what terrorists ought to do is fascinating/scary at the same time.Selebian said:
A chemistry degree would appear to fall under that!carnforth said:
True, but:williamglenn said:
Producing ricin is not just possessing pdfs.carnforth said:
Also:carnforth said:
"Not being treated as terrorism". Not quite the same. I suppose they could start saying "Not currently being treated as terrorism".FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related.
"However, police have not declared the events of 29 July a terrorist incident. "For a matter to be declared as a terrorist incident, motivation would need to be established," Chief Constable Kennedy said."
So we're charging people just for having PDFs on their hard drives again. Lucky no-one went around checking hard drives for the Anarchist's Cookbook when I was a teenager.
"He also faces a terror charge of possession of information "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000"."
Someone could be charged with that alone. They probably wouldn't be, but they could be - and that's not right.0 -
Yes, a lot of jumping to conclusions this afternoon.bondegezou said:
Do you know when they were found? What's your source?MoonRabbit said:
Seriously? It’s not just this week the rice in the Tupperware and a manual was found is it? These were found hours after the attack.spudgfsh said:
I suspect she found out quite late on. even with high profile cases like this there'd be little to no communication with the home secretary about operational matters.Big_G_NorthWales said:No 10 denying prior knowledge of the decision by the CPS to charge the suspect with terrorism
I expect an urgent question to the Home Secretary asking when she knew ricin and the Al Quaeda manual had been discovered in the suspects house
I’m with Big G on this one. Urgent Ricingate questions for Cooper to answer, what did she know and when.
I know you can't buy Ricin at your local Sainsbury's - well, not at mine anyway. The Al-Qaeda manual is a downloaded document and while I imagine the very possession triggers the offence, I'm still curious.
The riots in the immediate aftermath of Southport were the result of the widespread view the perpetrator was a "migrant" or "illegal immigrant" or whatever term you want to use. My understanding is the current accused is a British citizen born in Cardiff.
None of this in any way mitigates the anger and revulsion at the act or the horror of the act itself nor though does it condone the resulting disorder and violence.0 -
He can right his Kampf inside...Malmesbury said:
Tommy Multiple Names is following the Cult Victimology Plan. Do something to upset a court - such as harassing witnesses during a legal case. Keep doing it until the court reacts. Ignore the "don't do X" prohibition. Then claim to be a Promethean Victim when you get sent down for repeatedly being a dick.turbotubbs said:
Tommy is in prison because he broke a court order about something else. I suspect deliberately.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.0 -
So the October Surprise is - Trump is a Commie?!!!!rottenborough said:
Aaron Rupar @atrupar.bsky.social
·
54m
"It was the opposite of Nazism" -- RFK Jr on Trump's MSG rally2 -
Interesting post from Dom.maaarsh said:https://x.com/Dominic2306/status/1851291937531445396
Who could possibly have predicted that the 'mainstream' official sources/media were lying as usual about crime, terrorism, Islam. No10 will have known the truth almost immediately the police did, which will have been almost immediately.
And who could possibly have predicted that the NPC pundits like Freedman and Portes and Katwala peddled all the official bullshit 24/7 while babbling the whole time about 'disinformation' and 'Islamophobia' from 'fascists' like
@elonmusk
& demanding people be locked up for spreading 'disinformation'!!!!
NPC pundits ARE THE DISINFORMATION.
It's being shoved out cos of the budget & US election, hoping most voters don't see how they were lied to by the official system yet again.
*The system is working as intended*0 -
The police clearly have more sense than you, thank heavens.maaarsh said:
The police are still claiming the literal massacre of the innocents has an unknown motive, after the bloke who did it has ricin and islamic terrorist manuals found at his home.bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
Briefing the likely motive was mental health related at the time can be forgiven as naiveity or incompetance, but still saying they don't know what happened now is pushing it a bit too far.
That he has ricin suggests he wanted to kill indiscriminately. We already knew that.
That he had an Islamic terrorist manual doesn't mean he agrees with the ideology.
You jumping to conclusions does nothing to speed up justice or our understanding of events.
The police and CPS have seen more evidence than we have.0 -
Are you telling me the ricin was only found in the last few days and has been hanging around the house for months now? People also assumed it was terrorism related and he has separately been charged with this, while we were told it was not terrorism related and probably mental health. We were also told he wasn't a Muslim, he was a Welsh Christian who loved Dr Who.bondegezou said:
Do you have any actual evidence as to when either the police or Starmer knew? You just appear to be offering assumptions.CharlieShark said:
The police would have known within days and Starmer too. Yet they were happy to prod us towards a mental health problem or neurodivergence, always willing to tar people with mental health concerns, just to divert away from the real issues. Starmer was then piously talking about misinformation, while all the time misinforming us. Gaslighting.stodge said:
Unfortunately the Internet is the epitome of a forum which allows people to rush to judgement. Yes, there are questions to be answered (there always were). I'm not quite clear what element of Starmer's "response" needs to be addressed.FrancisUrquhart said:Kemi Badenoch...
“After the Southport murders and the ensuing protests and riots, some people asked me why I wasn’t commenting. This is why.
Too many on all sides rush to conclusions before all the facts are clear. As more information emerges, it is quite clear that there are serious questions to be asked of the police, the CPS and also of Keir Starmer’s response to the whole situation.
Parliament is the right place for this to happen. While we must abide by the rules of contempt of court and not prejudice this case it is important that there is appropriate scrutiny.“
He presumably had access to information most of us don't and presumably this was correct information not the disinformation peddled by some on social media.
People assumed the attacker was an asylum seeker. He wasn't. They assumed he was an immigrant. He wasn't they assumed the silly made-up Arabic-sounding name was correct. It wasn't.
Certain journalists had information back in the summer, but were afraid to print.
https://x.com/astor_charlie/status/18512945908942934641 -
She took her A levels in 1997 not 1970 - if you can only get a D in A level maths I don't want to rely on anything you've engineered.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Even when Keir was doing it 10% got As - out of the whole country we couldn't be bothered to pick someone in the top decile mentally - admittedly America has 2 similar choices, but it doesn't excuse us.1 -
I think anyone who believes in God is a nutter, but that doesn't mean they are out of their mind which is what "manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility" is all about.Malmesbury said:
https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/tlg86 said:
By giving the impression that it wasn't terrorism when it so obviously was terrorism.Malmesbury said:
They should be bowling at them, Shirley?tlg86 said:
Heads should roll over this. Utterly disgraceful for the police to go into bat for terrorists.FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
What "go into bat for terrorists" are you referring to?
There have been some suggestions that having the above in your browser history..... Congrats on getting on the MI5 list, by the way.
What they have is someone who went postal. Who had an Alans Snackbarist manual on his hard drive and tried to produce ricin. It's quite possible he was a nutter looking for a template for his insanity. Rather than an actual Jihadist.0 -
My grandad was an army cook in the war and his recipe book was full of "put this, this and this in a bucket and you get...."!Malmesbury said:
To someone who has done chemistry, the world is full of "Put this, this and this in a bucket and you get...."turbotubbs said:
One of my colleagues used to be in possession of mg scale amounts of a drug CC1065 that would kill hundreds in the right environment and be almost undetectable (binds to DNA causing multi-organ failure a few months after administration). The way he talks about what terrorists ought to do is fascinating/scary at the same time.Selebian said:
A chemistry degree would appear to fall under that!carnforth said:
True, but:williamglenn said:
Producing ricin is not just possessing pdfs.carnforth said:
Also:carnforth said:
"Not being treated as terrorism". Not quite the same. I suppose they could start saying "Not currently being treated as terrorism".FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related.
"However, police have not declared the events of 29 July a terrorist incident. "For a matter to be declared as a terrorist incident, motivation would need to be established," Chief Constable Kennedy said."
So we're charging people just for having PDFs on their hard drives again. Lucky no-one went around checking hard drives for the Anarchist's Cookbook when I was a teenager.
"He also faces a terror charge of possession of information "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000"."
Someone could be charged with that alone. They probably wouldn't be, but they could be - and that's not right.0 -
When I was a teenager, you could get everything mail order. I still remember the thrill of getting the 100% Sulphuric acid. In those days the use of polystyrene foam round a bottle in a parcel was a bit exotic. Glass bottle of course.....FrancisUrquhart said:
When I was doing my A-Level chemistry I was paired up with this Chinese kid. Very smart, but had only just arrived in the UK and his English wasn't very good and had shall we say a very lax approach to health and safety....using the fume cupboard was seen as unnecessary hassle, as was bothering to measure things...150ml...300ml, same thing...i just double everything else...Malmesbury said:
To someone who has done chemistry, the world is full of "Put this, this and this in a bucket and you get...."turbotubbs said:
One of my colleagues used to be in possession of mg scale amounts of a drug CC1065 that would kill hundreds in the right environment and be almost undetectable (binds to DNA causing multi-organ failure a few months after administration). The way he talks about what terrorists ought to do is fascinating/scary at the same time.Selebian said:
A chemistry degree would appear to fall under that!carnforth said:
True, but:williamglenn said:
Producing ricin is not just possessing pdfs.carnforth said:
Also:carnforth said:
"Not being treated as terrorism". Not quite the same. I suppose they could start saying "Not currently being treated as terrorism".FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related.
"However, police have not declared the events of 29 July a terrorist incident. "For a matter to be declared as a terrorist incident, motivation would need to be established," Chief Constable Kennedy said."
So we're charging people just for having PDFs on their hard drives again. Lucky no-one went around checking hard drives for the Anarchist's Cookbook when I was a teenager.
"He also faces a terror charge of possession of information "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000"."
Someone could be charged with that alone. They probably wouldn't be, but they could be - and that's not right.
The 100% Nitric was fun as well.
My brother (slightly older) was a spoil sport and drew the line at Hydrofluoric......
Mind you, the bit where we teaching ourselves how to silver glass using silver nitrate... and the solution turned black.....1 -
I see no evidence of a cover up. At that time the police said they were not treating it as terror-related because they were not doing so. They subsequently found further evidence.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
You've produced no evidence to contradict this.0 -
The reason for the pin head dancing over been charged under the Terrorism Act but the incident not being a Terrorist incident, is that for charges no motivation needs to be established, for the authorities to deem its a terrorist incident, they have to believe they know the motive.0
-
Once you've finished A-Levels they mean nothing to anyone if you get a Degree. I'm an engineer, I've worked on systems with a safety implication, I got DDE at A-Level. That means nothing to anyone because I got a 2:1 degree and a lot of following experience.maaarsh said:
She took her A levels in 1997 not 1970 - if you can only get a D in A level maths I don't want to rely on anything you've engineered.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Even when Keir was doing it 10% got As - out of the whole country we couldn't be bothered to pick someone in the top decile mentally - admittedly America has 2 similar choices, but it doesn't excuse us.1 -
How does the old Army joke go - "I've killed more men than smallpox. I was a cook." ?DecrepiterJohnL said:
My grandad was an army cook in the war and his recipe book was full of "put this, this and this in a bucket and you get...."!Malmesbury said:
To someone who has done chemistry, the world is full of "Put this, this and this in a bucket and you get...."turbotubbs said:
One of my colleagues used to be in possession of mg scale amounts of a drug CC1065 that would kill hundreds in the right environment and be almost undetectable (binds to DNA causing multi-organ failure a few months after administration). The way he talks about what terrorists ought to do is fascinating/scary at the same time.Selebian said:
A chemistry degree would appear to fall under that!carnforth said:
True, but:williamglenn said:
Producing ricin is not just possessing pdfs.carnforth said:
Also:carnforth said:
"Not being treated as terrorism". Not quite the same. I suppose they could start saying "Not currently being treated as terrorism".FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related.
"However, police have not declared the events of 29 July a terrorist incident. "For a matter to be declared as a terrorist incident, motivation would need to be established," Chief Constable Kennedy said."
So we're charging people just for having PDFs on their hard drives again. Lucky no-one went around checking hard drives for the Anarchist's Cookbook when I was a teenager.
"He also faces a terror charge of possession of information "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000"."
Someone could be charged with that alone. They probably wouldn't be, but they could be - and that's not right.1 -
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled out at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.1 -
We were told it was disinformation to use the made-up name and say the attacker was an asylum seeker. This is because it was disinformation.williamglenn said:
We were told that it was disinformation to link the crime to Islamist terrorism. Now it seems to be the truth.bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
The rioters were attacking asylum seekers. That was because of the disinformation.2 -
I was under the impression that in order to post on PB the rule was minimum AAA and a first class degree.....standards are spilling.spudgfsh said:
Once you've finished A-Levels they mean nothing to anyone if you get a Degree. I'm an engineer, I've worked on systems with a safety implication, I got DDE at A-Level. That means nothing to anyone because I got a 2:1 degree and a lot of following experience.maaarsh said:
She took her A levels in 1997 not 1970 - if you can only get a D in A level maths I don't want to rely on anything you've engineered.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Even when Keir was doing it 10% got As - out of the whole country we couldn't be bothered to pick someone in the top decile mentally - admittedly America has 2 similar choices, but it doesn't excuse us.3 -
Do you think terrorism should have been an immediate line of enquiry?BartholomewRoberts said:
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled our at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.1 -
The pertinent question to me seems to be if you’re charging someone with terror offences how the heck you’re not categorising the incident as terror related? If there’s some labyrinthine operational police reason why not, that seems to me to be a complete nonsense.
Regarding the other side of things, I assume that at least the HS would have been told as and when those materials were found based on the fact I assume (perhaps I am wrong?) that it would be classed as a high profile national security matter. What that means, I can’t really say because I wasn’t privy to the timings of all this.1 -
To be fair, Amanda Spielman has multiple A-levels at Grade A and a degree from Cambridge, and she's still thick as pigshit.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
And Cummings has an A in A-level history and a degree from Oxford, and he's an idiot.
Grades don't tell you everything.
Indeed, David Miliband had pretty ropey A-levels too.3 -
What I mean is that, not infrequently, you see one of the American style spree shooters accumulating weird mixes of violent ideologies to go with their actual violence. It's like they are trying to fill the gapping void between their anger and their actions with some excuse for a motive.tlg86 said:
I think anyone who believes in God is a nutter, but that doesn't mean they are out of their mind which is what "manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility" is all about.Malmesbury said:
https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/tlg86 said:
By giving the impression that it wasn't terrorism when it so obviously was terrorism.Malmesbury said:
They should be bowling at them, Shirley?tlg86 said:
Heads should roll over this. Utterly disgraceful for the police to go into bat for terrorists.FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
What "go into bat for terrorists" are you referring to?
There have been some suggestions that having the above in your browser history..... Congrats on getting on the MI5 list, by the way.
What they have is someone who went postal. Who had an Alans Snackbarist manual on his hard drive and tried to produce ricin. It's quite possible he was a nutter looking for a template for his insanity. Rather than an actual Jihadist.0 -
Yes, as I said I'd add Ireland, Scotland 'County' FC teams and AN Other (Netherlands? Strongest Minor County?) to give 3 divisions of 7 in the Championship. As a problem with 18 now seems to be that 16 games (2 divisions of 9) is too many to fit into the summer with other commitments now. While 10 - 3 divisions of 6 is too few. At the minute we therefore have a weird system of 10 and 8 where some in the top division don't play each other twice.turbotubbs said:
21 county teams? I know of 18 and then the minor counties.MJW said:
The Hundred was an utter fraud from the start, given it was always conceived in the way that it was, as opposed to revamping The Blast alongside other comps, for reasons of financial jiggery pokery. Namely that it was always going to be easier to flog supposedly new 'entities' that only played T20 than a county.turbotubbs said:
The games that will get the crowds are the T20's. I would have the Championship running Monday through to Thursday and then T20 over the weekend, spread over the summer (so in parallel). Back in the day the counties played 6 days a week with few issues. If you need to rest players do so. But a 10 ten Championship Div 1 is 18 games if home and away, or back to 9 each in Div 1 and 2 so 16. Easy to accommodate.Taz said:
The T20 is also great for clubs like mine, Durham. We regularly get good crowds and it is great for the concessions in the ground as well as Chester itself. The street food and the other concessions do well and it is a great day out.FrancisUrquhart said:There are a lot of issues with cricket, but it just can't support Hundred, T20 Blast and to lesser extent 50 over ODI cup competition. You got to pick one format, and it has to be T20, as that is what all the big leagues play.
ECB tripling down on Hundred, it is already losing some of the best players to sodding Major League Cricket....They all want to play for the big bucks which is in T20 cricket, because the likes of the Indians bankroll it, and want a set of global competitions under a travelling tour of the same franchises.
But the ECB pick a weird hybrid, that the counties don't like and potential investors don't like either.
Sure that doesn't give the appeal of a shorter tournament but I think it a better way to develop players in the longer games (spread over the whole of summer's varying conditions) and getting the crowds in on Friday night, Sat and Sun afternoon.
All the PR about new audiences and bringing more money into the game was just that - the sums just didn't add up without overseas money bankrolling it like it bankrolls numerous otherwise unsustainable T20 leagues around the world.
The problem being, it'll be disastrous for English cricket as franchise cricket is a bubble that relies on Indian and oil money - which will always come with strings attached. So they'll take the money and sell off the summer, but what then? The casual fans they pitched at attracting will easily be drawn away by the next thing, especially if the spectacle's a bit second rate. While those who loved cricket before - who previously bankrolled the game by paying through the nose for Sky, tickets, and memberships - will no longer be as loyal.
Personally, the horrific Hundred needs to be stopped before its too late - even if it takes boycotts and interruptions of test matches, if we want a decent domestic game in this country.
Then I'd add 3 'counties' (Ireland, Scotland, AN other) so we can have a 3 division championship of 7 teams each. That's a 12 game season playing home and away. Add 3 more minor counties or invitational Associates to a 24 team One Day Cup - played with 6 Groups of 4 like a football Euros then a knockout - so not too many games but loads of meaningful ones. Play group games in a week early in the season then knock out rounds over the next weekends. Final in June.
Then for T20 I'd take the 21 'County' teams and split them into 3 groups of 7 by region, as The Blast is now. Top 2 qualify as of right. with 3rd and 4th in each group playing off for the remaining 3 spots in a finals league that fills The Hundred TV friendly slot over a few weeks in August. To ensure big test grounds are used if teams don't qualify have 'magic weekends' there. Then finals day as is now.
The women's game could then mirror it but with fewer teams, say an 8 county professional FC comp, and a development Div 2. A 16 team ODC, and a T20 like The Hundred now with some weekend double headers with men's games.
Job done. Slightly less cricket, but much more meaningful cricket. Plenty for Sky to get their teeth into. Though of course it won't be done as the ECB are only interested in lining their own wallets, not cricket.
I always considered the Hundred as the first step to getting rid of counties and getting to a system more akin to Aussie cricket at the top level.
So with 7-7-7 you then get 12 games, members only lose 1 home FC men's game. Which helps the calendar, means the divisions are competitive till the end, and is good for the wider game in terms of giving Ireland and Scotland players decent FC experience.
In T20 you can just use the same entities, while if you add the top three minor counties or top two and an invitational side to the One Day Cup you get 24 teams - which suits a competition with 6 groups of 4 then knockouts from the last 16.0 -
The rule is having an opinion on everything even if you know nothing meaningful about it....FrancisUrquhart said:
I was under the impression that in order to post on PB the rule was minimum AAA and a first class degree.....standards are spilling.spudgfsh said:
Once you've finished A-Levels they mean nothing to anyone if you get a Degree. I'm an engineer, I've worked on systems with a safety implication, I got DDE at A-Level. That means nothing to anyone because I got a 2:1 degree and a lot of following experience.maaarsh said:
She took her A levels in 1997 not 1970 - if you can only get a D in A level maths I don't want to rely on anything you've engineered.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Even when Keir was doing it 10% got As - out of the whole country we couldn't be bothered to pick someone in the top decile mentally - admittedly America has 2 similar choices, but it doesn't excuse us.1 -
No.tlg86 said:
Do you think terrorism should have been an immediate line of enquiry?BartholomewRoberts said:
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled our at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.
I think the Police should keep an open mind and follow the facts and evidence wherever they lead.
No predetermined enquiry.0 -
Somehow, I doubt that argument would be made if this was a Thomas Mair character.Malmesbury said:
What I mean is that, not infrequently, you see one of the American style spree shooters accumulating weird mixes of violent ideologies to go with their actual violence. It's like they are trying to fill the gapping void between their anger and their actions with some excuse for a motive.tlg86 said:
I think anyone who believes in God is a nutter, but that doesn't mean they are out of their mind which is what "manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility" is all about.Malmesbury said:
https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/tlg86 said:
By giving the impression that it wasn't terrorism when it so obviously was terrorism.Malmesbury said:
They should be bowling at them, Shirley?tlg86 said:
Heads should roll over this. Utterly disgraceful for the police to go into bat for terrorists.FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
What "go into bat for terrorists" are you referring to?
There have been some suggestions that having the above in your browser history..... Congrats on getting on the MI5 list, by the way.
What they have is someone who went postal. Who had an Alans Snackbarist manual on his hard drive and tried to produce ricin. It's quite possible he was a nutter looking for a template for his insanity. Rather than an actual Jihadist.0 -
In his case, there is plenty of evidence of his ideological motivation.tlg86 said:
Somehow, I doubt that argument would be made if this was a Thomas Mair character.Malmesbury said:
What I mean is that, not infrequently, you see one of the American style spree shooters accumulating weird mixes of violent ideologies to go with their actual violence. It's like they are trying to fill the gapping void between their anger and their actions with some excuse for a motive.tlg86 said:
I think anyone who believes in God is a nutter, but that doesn't mean they are out of their mind which is what "manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility" is all about.Malmesbury said:
https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/tlg86 said:
By giving the impression that it wasn't terrorism when it so obviously was terrorism.Malmesbury said:
They should be bowling at them, Shirley?tlg86 said:
Heads should roll over this. Utterly disgraceful for the police to go into bat for terrorists.FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
What "go into bat for terrorists" are you referring to?
There have been some suggestions that having the above in your browser history..... Congrats on getting on the MI5 list, by the way.
What they have is someone who went postal. Who had an Alans Snackbarist manual on his hard drive and tried to produce ricin. It's quite possible he was a nutter looking for a template for his insanity. Rather than an actual Jihadist.
What I'm saying is that merely having some items doesn't prove an ideological motivation.0 -
Of course you don't see evidence of a cover up, you're the commissar who does the covering up and pretends it doesn't happen.bondegezou said:
I see no evidence of a cover up. At that time the police said they were not treating it as terror-related because they were not doing so. They subsequently found further evidence.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
You've produced no evidence to contradict this.2 -
Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
Trump takes to the stage in Mar-a-Lago: “They [Kamala] stole the presidency of the United States. You can call it a coup1 -
Your opinion about having opinion on everything even if you know nothing meaningful about it is *wrong*. Signed, Internet Expert.spudgfsh said:
The rule is having an opinion on everything even if you know nothing meaningful about it....FrancisUrquhart said:
I was under the impression that in order to post on PB the rule was minimum AAA and a first class degree.....standards are spilling.spudgfsh said:
Once you've finished A-Levels they mean nothing to anyone if you get a Degree. I'm an engineer, I've worked on systems with a safety implication, I got DDE at A-Level. That means nothing to anyone because I got a 2:1 degree and a lot of following experience.maaarsh said:
She took her A levels in 1997 not 1970 - if you can only get a D in A level maths I don't want to rely on anything you've engineered.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Even when Keir was doing it 10% got As - out of the whole country we couldn't be bothered to pick someone in the top decile mentally - admittedly America has 2 similar choices, but it doesn't excuse us.2 -
Errrr, because there are 70 million people in the UK.williamglenn said:
If that's the case, why not? We have over 40,000 people on terror watchlists. Why wasn't he one of them?bondegezou said:I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
And there's a balance here: either you have so many people on the list that no one is being properly monitored* or you miss someone. Let's not forget either that at the height of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the security services reckoned they knew the identities of less than a fifth of the members of the Provisional IRA.
* And do we really want hundreds of thousands of people on terror watch lists for - say - having visited an Islamist web site?0 -
Not everyone excels in their A Levels. A pretty daft way to judge someone with decades of work experience.maaarsh said:
She took her A levels in 1997 not 1970 - if you can only get a D in A level maths I don't want to rely on anything you've engineered.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Even when Keir was doing it 10% got As - out of the whole country we couldn't be bothered to pick someone in the top decile mentally - admittedly America has 2 similar choices, but it doesn't excuse us.7 -
My comment doesn't necessarily imply that the list should be bigger, but if someone who goes on to commit mass murder wasn't on the list, then questions need to be asked about whether we are monitoring the right people.rcs1000 said:
Errrr, because there are 70 million people in the UK.williamglenn said:
If that's the case, why not? We have over 40,000 people on terror watchlists. Why wasn't he one of them?bondegezou said:I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
And there's a balance here: either you have so many people on the list that no one is being properly monitored* or you miss someone. Let's not forget either that at the height of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the security services reckoned they knew the identities of less than a fifth of the members of the Provisional IRA.
* And do we really want hundreds of thousands of people on terror watch lists for - say - having visited an Islamist web site?0 -
I think we probably do want a watchlist for having visited that type of website, at least passively added to automated communications monitoring for a few months afterwards.rcs1000 said:
Errrr, because there are 70 million people in the UK.williamglenn said:
If that's the case, why not? We have over 40,000 people on terror watchlists. Why wasn't he one of them?bondegezou said:I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
And there's a balance here: either you have so many people on the list that no one is being properly monitored* or you miss someone. Let's not forget either that at the height of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the security services reckoned they knew the identities of less than a fifth of the members of the Provisional IRA.
* And do we really want hundreds of thousands of people on terror watch lists for - say - having visited an Islamist web site?0 -
The word terrorist is used rather loosely now. However the mental health problems that we heard about initially does sound inadequate.MaxPB said:I don't understand why this isn't being treated as terrorism, the guy had ricin and a terrorist handbook, he's a terrorist and killed children in an act of terrorism. What are the police afraid of?
1 -
Given the link I posted above, you quite probably are on a watch list.....MaxPB said:
I think we probably do want a watchlist for having visited that type of website, at least passively added to automated communications monitoring for a few months afterwards.rcs1000 said:
Errrr, because there are 70 million people in the UK.williamglenn said:
If that's the case, why not? We have over 40,000 people on terror watchlists. Why wasn't he one of them?bondegezou said:I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
And there's a balance here: either you have so many people on the list that no one is being properly monitored* or you miss someone. Let's not forget either that at the height of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the security services reckoned they knew the identities of less than a fifth of the members of the Provisional IRA.
* And do we really want hundreds of thousands of people on terror watch lists for - say - having visited an Islamist web site?0 -
It is possible for someone to be both a Islamic extremist, and a common or garden murderer and rapist. And it is entirely possible for the two not to be connected.williamglenn said:
We were told that it was disinformation to link the crime to Islamist terrorism. Now it seems to be the truth.bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
Just as I suspect there will be people who embezzle money from their employers and who are paedophiles.0 -
But they seemed to rule out terrorism as a motivation awfully quickly. It doesn't seem that they had an open mind, they seemed determined not to call this terrorism and in fact they still do despite the terror manual and ricin being found. It's a little odd, no?BartholomewRoberts said:
No.tlg86 said:
Do you think terrorism should have been an immediate line of enquiry?BartholomewRoberts said:
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled our at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.
I think the Police should keep an open mind and follow the facts and evidence wherever they lead.
No predetermined enquiry.2 -
Sunny Hostin - co-host on ABC's morning talk show The View:
"And finally to my fellow Puerto Ricans, trash collection day is 5th November 2024"
Full, fiery 2m clip from ABC is at:
https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/vp-harris-is-bringing-joy-optimism
0 -
The morning after, you had BBC journalists saying how similar it felt to Manchester but then quickly caveating to say "oh, but it's not terrorism".MaxPB said:
But they seemed to rule out terrorism as a motivation awfully quickly. It doesn't seem that they had an open mind, they seemed determined not to call this terrorism and in fact they still do despite the terror manual and ricin being found. It's a little odd, no?BartholomewRoberts said:
No.tlg86 said:
Do you think terrorism should have been an immediate line of enquiry?BartholomewRoberts said:
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled our at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.
I think the Police should keep an open mind and follow the facts and evidence wherever they lead.
No predetermined enquiry.
The target of the attack made it highly likely that we were dealing with an attacker motivated by an ideology.2 -
Not to mention people who sexually assault women, commit fraud and stage a coup.rcs1000 said:
It is possible for someone to be both a Islamic extremist, and a common or garden murderer and rapist. And it is entirely possible for the two not to be connected.williamglenn said:
We were told that it was disinformation to link the crime to Islamist terrorism. Now it seems to be the truth.bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
Just as I suspect there will be people who embezzle money from their employers and who are paedophiles.2 -
"@RobertJenrick
The public had a right to know the truth straight away.
I am seriously concerned that facts may have been withheld from the public.
Keir Starmer must urgently explain what he knew about the Southport attack and when he learned it."
https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/18512947803048634491 -
Who ruled it out?MaxPB said:
But they seemed to rule out terrorism as a motivation awfully quickly. It doesn't seem that they had an open mind, they seemed determined not to call this terrorism and in fact they still do despite the terror manual and ricin being found. It's a little odd, no?BartholomewRoberts said:
No.tlg86 said:
Do you think terrorism should have been an immediate line of enquiry?BartholomewRoberts said:
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled our at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.
I think the Police should keep an open mind and follow the facts and evidence wherever they lead.
No predetermined enquiry.
They quite explicitly did the opposite in saying they're "not currently" treating it as terrorism meaning they might in the future but are currently keeping an open mind.
Please quote a single thing definitively saying "this was not terrorism" or that "terrorism has been ruled out"?1 -
Anyone who believes this is an idiot. The truth is not known straight away. It is good that the police take a bit of time and are cautious nowadays. Otherwise you get stuff like Hillsborough.Andy_JS said:"@RobertJenrick
The public had a right to know the truth straight away.
I am seriously concerned that facts may have been withheld from the public.
Keir Starmer must urgently explain what he knew about the Southport attack and when he learned it."
https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/18512947803048634494 -
Why mention any motive? Why not say "we cannot rule anything out at this stage"?BartholomewRoberts said:
Who ruled it out?MaxPB said:
But they seemed to rule out terrorism as a motivation awfully quickly. It doesn't seem that they had an open mind, they seemed determined not to call this terrorism and in fact they still do despite the terror manual and ricin being found. It's a little odd, no?BartholomewRoberts said:
No.tlg86 said:
Do you think terrorism should have been an immediate line of enquiry?BartholomewRoberts said:
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled our at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.
I think the Police should keep an open mind and follow the facts and evidence wherever they lead.
No predetermined enquiry.
They quite explicitly did the opposite in saying they're "not currently" treating it as terrorism meaning they might in the future but are currently keeping an open mind.
Please quote a single thing definitively saying "this was not terrorism" or that "terrorism has been ruled out"?0 -
Weasel words and if they had an open mind would they say that?BartholomewRoberts said:
Who ruled it out?MaxPB said:
But they seemed to rule out terrorism as a motivation awfully quickly. It doesn't seem that they had an open mind, they seemed determined not to call this terrorism and in fact they still do despite the terror manual and ricin being found. It's a little odd, no?BartholomewRoberts said:
No.tlg86 said:
Do you think terrorism should have been an immediate line of enquiry?BartholomewRoberts said:
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled our at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.
I think the Police should keep an open mind and follow the facts and evidence wherever they lead.
No predetermined enquiry.
They quite explicitly did the opposite in saying they're "not currently" treating it as terrorism meaning they might in the future but are currently keeping an open mind.
Please quote a single thing definitively saying "this was not terrorism" or that "terrorism has been ruled out"?1 -
That's a fair point.williamglenn said:
My comment doesn't necessarily imply that the list should be bigger, but if someone who goes on to commit mass murder wasn't on the list, then questions need to be asked about whether we are monitoring the right people.rcs1000 said:
Errrr, because there are 70 million people in the UK.williamglenn said:
If that's the case, why not? We have over 40,000 people on terror watchlists. Why wasn't he one of them?bondegezou said:I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
And there's a balance here: either you have so many people on the list that no one is being properly monitored* or you miss someone. Let's not forget either that at the height of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the security services reckoned they knew the identities of less than a fifth of the members of the Provisional IRA.
* And do we really want hundreds of thousands of people on terror watch lists for - say - having visited an Islamist web site?
But don't forget that this stuff is hard.
And there's always a difficult balance to be had, because - beyond watching a few individuals - what can the State really do before someone does something that is actually illegal? We can't lock people up for their thoughts: much as I find it repugnant, people are allowed to believe that children are acceptable sexual partners, or in the primacy of Islam or that white people are racially superior to other people.
The essence of freedom is that we accept that some terrible things are going to happen, and that those things might have been stopped.
And we accept that, because when we give the government too much power, then more bad things happen.
Just remember: outside of disease and old age, the entity most likely to kill you is your own government. And it isn't even close.0 -
Unfortuanately, some people have a more Queen of Hearts attitude to justice.BartholomewRoberts said:
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled out at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.
Part of the trouble is that most of us are so damn impatient these days.1 -
There was supposed to be an episode of Dispatches last week that Channel 4 spent a chunk of time scheduling and then unscheduling. I wonder if was related to Southport?1
-
Because people were prematurely claiming the motive without evidence so they clarified they can't currently say the motive.tlg86 said:
Why mention any motive? Why not say "we cannot rule anything out at this stage"?BartholomewRoberts said:
Who ruled it out?MaxPB said:
But they seemed to rule out terrorism as a motivation awfully quickly. It doesn't seem that they had an open mind, they seemed determined not to call this terrorism and in fact they still do despite the terror manual and ricin being found. It's a little odd, no?BartholomewRoberts said:
No.tlg86 said:
Do you think terrorism should have been an immediate line of enquiry?BartholomewRoberts said:
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled our at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.
I think the Police should keep an open mind and follow the facts and evidence wherever they lead.
No predetermined enquiry.
They quite explicitly did the opposite in saying they're "not currently" treating it as terrorism meaning they might in the future but are currently keeping an open mind.
Please quote a single thing definitively saying "this was not terrorism" or that "terrorism has been ruled out"?
Which is the right thing to do as others have said if the Police predetermined the wrong motive, that's how you end up with them buggering things up like Hillsborough.0 -
What?rcs1000 said:
That's a fair point.williamglenn said:
My comment doesn't necessarily imply that the list should be bigger, but if someone who goes on to commit mass murder wasn't on the list, then questions need to be asked about whether we are monitoring the right people.rcs1000 said:
Errrr, because there are 70 million people in the UK.williamglenn said:
If that's the case, why not? We have over 40,000 people on terror watchlists. Why wasn't he one of them?bondegezou said:I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
And there's a balance here: either you have so many people on the list that no one is being properly monitored* or you miss someone. Let's not forget either that at the height of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the security services reckoned they knew the identities of less than a fifth of the members of the Provisional IRA.
* And do we really want hundreds of thousands of people on terror watch lists for - say - having visited an Islamist web site?
But don't forget that this stuff is hard.
And there's always a difficult balance to be had, because - beyond watching a few individuals - what can the State really do before someone does something that is actually illegal? We can't lock people up for their thoughts: much as I find it repugnant, people are allowed to believe that children are acceptable sexual partners, or in the primacy of Islam or that white people are racially superior to other people.
The essence of freedom is that we accept that some terrible things are going to happen, and that those things might have been stopped.
And we accept that, because when we give the government too much power, then more bad things happen.
Just remember: outside of disease and old age, the entity most likely to kill you is your own government. And it isn't even close.
Could you elucidate?
1 -
I mean its not like we can do anything useful if we have information that it was a terrorist event anyway. Unless burning down some hotel with other people that had nothing do with it is considered useful by some.Stuartinromford said:
Unfortuanately, some people have a more Queen of Hearts attitude to justice.BartholomewRoberts said:
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled out at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.
Part of the trouble is that most of us are so damn impatient these days.
Just be sad for the families involved, and leave the justice to the justice system.3 -
I don't think Jenrick cares about that sort of thing. He's trying to out-tweet Farage.noneoftheabove said:
Anyone who believes this is an idiot. The truth is not known straight away. It is good that the police take a bit of time and are cautious nowadays. Otherwise you get stuff like Hillsborough.Andy_JS said:"@RobertJenrick
The public had a right to know the truth straight away.
I am seriously concerned that facts may have been withheld from the public.
Keir Starmer must urgently explain what he knew about the Southport attack and when he learned it."
https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/18512947803048634492 -
Only a few more days until he's consigned to the dustbin of history... hopefully.TimS said:
I don't think Jenrick cares about that sort of thing. He's trying to out-tweet Farage.noneoftheabove said:
Anyone who believes this is an idiot. The truth is not known straight away. It is good that the police take a bit of time and are cautious nowadays. Otherwise you get stuff like Hillsborough.Andy_JS said:"@RobertJenrick
The public had a right to know the truth straight away.
I am seriously concerned that facts may have been withheld from the public.
Keir Starmer must urgently explain what he knew about the Southport attack and when he learned it."
https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/18512947803048634492 -
Really? I thought you sold car insurance?rcs1000 said:
That's a fair point.williamglenn said:
My comment doesn't necessarily imply that the list should be bigger, but if someone who goes on to commit mass murder wasn't on the list, then questions need to be asked about whether we are monitoring the right people.rcs1000 said:
Errrr, because there are 70 million people in the UK.williamglenn said:
If that's the case, why not? We have over 40,000 people on terror watchlists. Why wasn't he one of them?bondegezou said:I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
And there's a balance here: either you have so many people on the list that no one is being properly monitored* or you miss someone. Let's not forget either that at the height of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the security services reckoned they knew the identities of less than a fifth of the members of the Provisional IRA.
* And do we really want hundreds of thousands of people on terror watch lists for - say - having visited an Islamist web site?
But don't forget that this stuff is hard.
And there's always a difficult balance to be had, because - beyond watching a few individuals - what can the State really do before someone does something that is actually illegal? We can't lock people up for their thoughts: much as I find it repugnant, people are allowed to believe that children are acceptable sexual partners, or in the primacy of Islam or that white people are racially superior to other people.
The essence of freedom is that we accept that some terrible things are going to happen, and that those things might have been stopped.
And we accept that, because when we give the government too much power, then more bad things happen.
Just remember: outside of disease and old age, the entity most likely to kill you is your own government. And it isn't even close.0 -
My A levels were better than my degree. I feel you definitely got judged if you're that way round the houses - I chose maths because I felt it'd be a challenge, rather than something easier like economics anywayFrankBooth said:
Not everyone excels in their A Levels. A pretty daft way to judge someone with decades of work experience.maaarsh said:
She took her A levels in 1997 not 1970 - if you can only get a D in A level maths I don't want to rely on anything you've engineered.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Even when Keir was doing it 10% got As - out of the whole country we couldn't be bothered to pick someone in the top decile mentally - admittedly America has 2 similar choices, but it doesn't excuse us.
0 -
To address @Malmesbury 's point that it could be a spree killing and the terrorist stuff was incidental, if he had shot up his school or something, then that would be much more plausible. But it wasn't. It was girls who like Taylor Swift. I don't for one second think it was a coincidence.1
-
I agree. like all exams they're a fuzzy filter of indeterminate value and yes they work in a general sense but not for the individual.FrankBooth said:
Not everyone excels in their A Levels. A pretty daft way to judge someone with decades of work experience.maaarsh said:
She took her A levels in 1997 not 1970 - if you can only get a D in A level maths I don't want to rely on anything you've engineered.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Even when Keir was doing it 10% got As - out of the whole country we couldn't be bothered to pick someone in the top decile mentally - admittedly America has 2 similar choices, but it doesn't excuse us.0 -
#ALevelgate knocks #Donkeygate and #RAFgate into a cocked hat.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Cor!1 -
Cockedhatgate?Anabobazina said:
#ALevelgate knocks #Donkeygate and #RAFgate into a cocked hat.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Cor!
0 -
Sure: in the 20th Century, about 200 million people were killed by their own government. Now, the biggest chunk of these were Communist countries (China, Cambodia), but the stats are pretty undeniable: in most countries it is the government you need to be afraid of. And the more powers you give it, the more afraid you need to be.Daveyboy1961 said:
What?rcs1000 said:
That's a fair point.williamglenn said:
My comment doesn't necessarily imply that the list should be bigger, but if someone who goes on to commit mass murder wasn't on the list, then questions need to be asked about whether we are monitoring the right people.rcs1000 said:
Errrr, because there are 70 million people in the UK.williamglenn said:
If that's the case, why not? We have over 40,000 people on terror watchlists. Why wasn't he one of them?bondegezou said:I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
And there's a balance here: either you have so many people on the list that no one is being properly monitored* or you miss someone. Let's not forget either that at the height of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the security services reckoned they knew the identities of less than a fifth of the members of the Provisional IRA.
* And do we really want hundreds of thousands of people on terror watch lists for - say - having visited an Islamist web site?
But don't forget that this stuff is hard.
And there's always a difficult balance to be had, because - beyond watching a few individuals - what can the State really do before someone does something that is actually illegal? We can't lock people up for their thoughts: much as I find it repugnant, people are allowed to believe that children are acceptable sexual partners, or in the primacy of Islam or that white people are racially superior to other people.
The essence of freedom is that we accept that some terrible things are going to happen, and that those things might have been stopped.
And we accept that, because when we give the government too much power, then more bad things happen.
Just remember: outside of disease and old age, the entity most likely to kill you is your own government. And it isn't even close.
Could you elucidate?
0 -
But they're doing that by not pursuing an investigation into terrorism "currently". They seem to be gun shy even after this guy has been caught red handed with a terror manual and ricin, as I said, it's very odd.BartholomewRoberts said:
Because people were prematurely claiming the motive without evidence so they clarified they can't currently say the motive.tlg86 said:
Why mention any motive? Why not say "we cannot rule anything out at this stage"?BartholomewRoberts said:
Who ruled it out?MaxPB said:
But they seemed to rule out terrorism as a motivation awfully quickly. It doesn't seem that they had an open mind, they seemed determined not to call this terrorism and in fact they still do despite the terror manual and ricin being found. It's a little odd, no?BartholomewRoberts said:
No.tlg86 said:
Do you think terrorism should have been an immediate line of enquiry?BartholomewRoberts said:
The words quite literally do mean something. They mean that terrorism is not being ruled our at this stage and that it might change as it gets investigated.tlg86 said:
The police said:bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:7aba2675-24b3-45ec-958a-af31e7a040cc#post
"We can also confirm that the incident is not currently being treated as terror-related and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.
Now, if you say it's not being treated as terrorism, it can only mean it's because you have a good idea of what it is (e.g. personal, he knew the woman taking the class etc. etc.). I.e. it would come as a huge surprise if the motivation turned out to be terrorism.
The weasel words "not currently" don't mean anything.
Letting justice run it's course is the right thing to do.
I think the Police should keep an open mind and follow the facts and evidence wherever they lead.
No predetermined enquiry.
They quite explicitly did the opposite in saying they're "not currently" treating it as terrorism meaning they might in the future but are currently keeping an open mind.
Please quote a single thing definitively saying "this was not terrorism" or that "terrorism has been ruled out"?
Which is the right thing to do as others have said if the Police predetermined the wrong motive, that's how you end up with them buggering things up like Hillsborough.0 -
The world of work is full of successful but clearly not particularly bright people - good luck to them. I'm merely suggesting for Prime Minister we should aim high.FrankBooth said:
Not everyone excels in their A Levels. A pretty daft way to judge someone with decades of work experience.maaarsh said:
She took her A levels in 1997 not 1970 - if you can only get a D in A level maths I don't want to rely on anything you've engineered.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Even when Keir was doing it 10% got As - out of the whole country we couldn't be bothered to pick someone in the top decile mentally - admittedly America has 2 similar choices, but it doesn't excuse us.
At the stage Kemi did her A-levels you needed to be Intelligent or consciencious to get good grades - not a good sign if she couldn't tick either box.0 -
The Stasi had about 1 full-time spy for every 166 East Germans (plus lots of part-timers and volunteers). Scale that up to the UK, that would need about 400 000 spooks. I suppose it's technically possible, but it will blow a massive hole in any attempts to shrink the public sector. I suppose AI would help a bit. But that wasn't sufficient to stop all trechery either.rcs1000 said:
That's a fair point.williamglenn said:
My comment doesn't necessarily imply that the list should be bigger, but if someone who goes on to commit mass murder wasn't on the list, then questions need to be asked about whether we are monitoring the right people.rcs1000 said:
Errrr, because there are 70 million people in the UK.williamglenn said:
If that's the case, why not? We have over 40,000 people on terror watchlists. Why wasn't he one of them?bondegezou said:I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
And there's a balance here: either you have so many people on the list that no one is being properly monitored* or you miss someone. Let's not forget either that at the height of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the security services reckoned they knew the identities of less than a fifth of the members of the Provisional IRA.
* And do we really want hundreds of thousands of people on terror watch lists for - say - having visited an Islamist web site?
But don't forget that this stuff is hard.
And there's always a difficult balance to be had, because - beyond watching a few individuals - what can the State really do before someone does something that is actually illegal? We can't lock people up for their thoughts: much as I find it repugnant, people are allowed to believe that children are acceptable sexual partners, or in the primacy of Islam or that white people are racially superior to other people.
The essence of freedom is that we accept that some terrible things are going to happen, and that those things might have been stopped.
And we accept that, because when we give the government too much power, then more bad things happen.
Just remember: outside of disease and old age, the entity most likely to kill you is your own government. And it isn't even close.0 -
I agree. I often think that the requirement of AAA* for a medical degree is a waste of good A levels.MightyAlex said:
I agree. like all exams they're a fuzzy filter of indeterminate value and yes they work in a general sense but not for the individual.FrankBooth said:
Not everyone excels in their A Levels. A pretty daft way to judge someone with decades of work experience.maaarsh said:
She took her A levels in 1997 not 1970 - if you can only get a D in A level maths I don't want to rely on anything you've engineered.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Even when Keir was doing it 10% got As - out of the whole country we couldn't be bothered to pick someone in the top decile mentally - admittedly America has 2 similar choices, but it doesn't excuse us.1 -
Isn’t this just correlation/causationturbotubbs said:
Along with an incorrect name too.TheScreamingEagles said:
The disinformation was primarily that he was an illegal/boat person.williamglenn said:
We were told that it was disinformation to link the crime to Islamist terrorism. Now it seems to be the truth.bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
1. He has mental health problems.
2. He is interest in radical Islamic topics
3. He stabbed some kids
2&3 flow from 1. But that doesn’t mean 3 flows from 23 -
And if it's the case that it's terrorism then there's a time and a place for that to be determined.tlg86 said:To address @Malmesbury 's point that it could be a spree killing and the terrorist stuff was incidental, if he had shot up his school or something, then that would be much more plausible. But it wasn't. It was girls who like Taylor Swift. I don't for one second think it was a coincidence.
Like a court of law, after a thorough investigation of the facts.
The Police predetermining "well it looks like this so we are saying its that" prematurely is how you end up with 96 dead football fans being blamed on their own fellow supporters being hooligans instead of the Police taking responsibility for investigating their own failures.0 -
In my day the students who knew what they were doing were allowed to brew up all kinds of things in the back of the chemistry lab at school.Malmesbury said:
When I was a teenager, you could get everything mail order. I still remember the thrill of getting the 100% Sulphuric acid. In those days the use of polystyrene foam round a bottle in a parcel was a bit exotic. Glass bottle of course.....FrancisUrquhart said:
When I was doing my A-Level chemistry I was paired up with this Chinese kid. Very smart, but had only just arrived in the UK and his English wasn't very good and had shall we say a very lax approach to health and safety....using the fume cupboard was seen as unnecessary hassle, as was bothering to measure things...150ml...300ml, same thing...i just double everything else...Malmesbury said:
To someone who has done chemistry, the world is full of "Put this, this and this in a bucket and you get...."turbotubbs said:
One of my colleagues used to be in possession of mg scale amounts of a drug CC1065 that would kill hundreds in the right environment and be almost undetectable (binds to DNA causing multi-organ failure a few months after administration). The way he talks about what terrorists ought to do is fascinating/scary at the same time.Selebian said:
A chemistry degree would appear to fall under that!carnforth said:
True, but:williamglenn said:
Producing ricin is not just possessing pdfs.carnforth said:
Also:carnforth said:
"Not being treated as terrorism". Not quite the same. I suppose they could start saying "Not currently being treated as terrorism".FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related.
"However, police have not declared the events of 29 July a terrorist incident. "For a matter to be declared as a terrorist incident, motivation would need to be established," Chief Constable Kennedy said."
So we're charging people just for having PDFs on their hard drives again. Lucky no-one went around checking hard drives for the Anarchist's Cookbook when I was a teenager.
"He also faces a terror charge of possession of information "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000"."
Someone could be charged with that alone. They probably wouldn't be, but they could be - and that's not right.
The 100% Nitric was fun as well.
My brother (slightly older) was a spoil sport and drew the line at Hydrofluoric......
Mind you, the bit where we teaching ourselves how to silver glass using silver nitrate... and the solution turned black.....
The usual amusement was NI3 which was mostly used to eat shoe soles one crackle at a time but other more exciting compounds may have been attempted.
It was kind of brought to a halt when some fool didn't cool a reaction vessel enough and the main classroom had to be cleared rather quickly.
I don't think anyone deliberately made any fulminates though!
Most of those committing such criminal acts went on to Oxbridge, of course.
[That's me on a list now]
2 -
She was 16 when she moved to the UK. Getting three A levels shortly after is probably quite an achievement considering.maaarsh said:
The world of work is full of successful but clearly not particularly bright people - good luck to them. I'm merely suggesting for Prime Minister we should aim high.FrankBooth said:
Not everyone excels in their A Levels. A pretty daft way to judge someone with decades of work experience.maaarsh said:
She took her A levels in 1997 not 1970 - if you can only get a D in A level maths I don't want to rely on anything you've engineered.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Even when Keir was doing it 10% got As - out of the whole country we couldn't be bothered to pick someone in the top decile mentally - admittedly America has 2 similar choices, but it doesn't excuse us.
At the stage Kemi did her A-levels you needed to be Intelligent or consciencious to get good grades - not a good sign if she couldn't tick either box.2 -
Much better put than I managed.StillWaters said:
Isn’t this just correlation/causationturbotubbs said:
Along with an incorrect name too.TheScreamingEagles said:
The disinformation was primarily that he was an illegal/boat person.williamglenn said:
We were told that it was disinformation to link the crime to Islamist terrorism. Now it seems to be the truth.bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
1. He has mental health problems.
2. He is interest in radical Islamic topics
3. He stabbed some kids
2&3 flow from 1. But that doesn’t mean 3 flows from 21 -
Wouldn't it when that kind of radical Islamic writing says to treat women as sub-human and infidels as animals and then he went to to stab infidel girls?StillWaters said:
Isn’t this just correlation/causationturbotubbs said:
Along with an incorrect name too.TheScreamingEagles said:
The disinformation was primarily that he was an illegal/boat person.williamglenn said:
We were told that it was disinformation to link the crime to Islamist terrorism. Now it seems to be the truth.bondegezou said:
What specifically had been covered up?tlg86 said:
"Not that I want it to kick off"maxh said:
That isn't how your previous post reads, to me at least.tlg86 said:
Nope, I'm saying the powers that be having to ask their officers to deal with shit deserve everything they get. (If I were rank and file, I'd refuse to go out there after this).maxh said:
I find some of the language and sentiments expressed by certain posters on here pretty unpleasant at the moment.tlg86 said:
The weather is set fair for the next week. Plenty of fireworks around too. (Not that I want it to kick off - I don't think it will - but if that was the thinking behind the lies, then the police deserve everything they get)maaarsh said:
It's cold and dark now, safe time to admit the hush up.Sandpit said:
So they’ve put “Tommy” in prison, and are now saying that this attack was terrorism after all?Razedabode said:
I can understand why the police didn’t want to release this pre whatever that Tommy Robinson march was, but the perception I.e what some groups will do with this won’t help.williamglenn said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/security-services-may-look-at-russia-and-farage-in-riots-probe_uk_66ba2494e4b0eabd2393a9a1carnforth said:
The crux was that he was an immigrant, which he wasn't, IIRC.williamglenn said:
Wasn't the crux of the 'fake news' story that he was known to the security services?FrancisUrquhart said:
The teenager accused of the stabbing murders of three young girls in Southport has been charged with producing the poison ricin and possessing a military study of an Al Qaeda training manual.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Southport killer charged with terrorism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05zpdq0lzgo
This isn't going to help all conspiracy theory stuff, as the police were very quick to say not terrorist related and the online stuff which got people out on the streets was all about a cover up of this being a terrorist attack and strange story of the soldier stabbing (which we still don't really know much about).
Farage falsely claimed the police were not telling the whole truth around the tragedies in Southport shortly after the stabbings first happened, and suggested the suspect was already known to the security services.
Hope the police and Home Office are braced for the response, let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t get as ugly as it did earlier in the summer.
Are you really saying that individual police officers deserve to be attacked with fireworks? Pretty shameful imo.
Obviously, police don't have much of choice, so I will retract any suggestion that they deserve it. But this is a cover up. And it is an absolute fucking disgrace.
1. He has mental health problems.
2. He is interest in radical Islamic topics
3. He stabbed some kids
2&3 flow from 1. But that doesn’t mean 3 flows from 21 -
The ability for AI to hallucinate would allow you to carefully remove anyone you didn't like though - just run it enough times until the correct name was invented and arrest the person involved.Stuartinromford said:
The Stasi had about 1 full-time spy for every 166 East Germans (plus lots of part-timers and volunteers). Scale that up to the UK, that would need about 400 000 spooks. I suppose it's technically possible, but it will blow a massive hole in any attempts to shrink the public sector. I suppose AI would help a bit. But that wasn't sufficient to stop all trechery either.rcs1000 said:
That's a fair point.williamglenn said:
My comment doesn't necessarily imply that the list should be bigger, but if someone who goes on to commit mass murder wasn't on the list, then questions need to be asked about whether we are monitoring the right people.rcs1000 said:
Errrr, because there are 70 million people in the UK.williamglenn said:
If that's the case, why not? We have over 40,000 people on terror watchlists. Why wasn't he one of them?bondegezou said:I've seen nothing to support the claim he was previously known to security services.
And there's a balance here: either you have so many people on the list that no one is being properly monitored* or you miss someone. Let's not forget either that at the height of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the security services reckoned they knew the identities of less than a fifth of the members of the Provisional IRA.
* And do we really want hundreds of thousands of people on terror watch lists for - say - having visited an Islamist web site?
But don't forget that this stuff is hard.
And there's always a difficult balance to be had, because - beyond watching a few individuals - what can the State really do before someone does something that is actually illegal? We can't lock people up for their thoughts: much as I find it repugnant, people are allowed to believe that children are acceptable sexual partners, or in the primacy of Islam or that white people are racially superior to other people.
The essence of freedom is that we accept that some terrible things are going to happen, and that those things might have been stopped.
And we accept that, because when we give the government too much power, then more bad things happen.
Just remember: outside of disease and old age, the entity most likely to kill you is your own government. And it isn't even close.
The added advantage in UK law is that the computer is legally correct so good luck trying to appeal your sentence..1 -
I assumed you'd made that one up, but it's so hard to be sure nowadays.Daveyboy1961 said:
Cockedhatgate?Anabobazina said:
#ALevelgate knocks #Donkeygate and #RAFgate into a cocked hat.DecrepiterJohnL said:
In the old days, top grades were harder to get and not many people cared anyway.maaarsh said:After yesterday's tweets about 'engineer' Kemi's sub-par academic achievements (D in A Level maths), I've just spotted Keir only got BBC in his A levels.
Why are we ruled by idiots, and how was this not spotted when muppets were going on about his razor-sharp intellect - the clues of his inability to think on his feet were there all along.
Cor!1 -
Was this premature from Theresa May in 2017?BartholomewRoberts said:
And if it's the case that it's terrorism then there's a time and a place for that to be determined.tlg86 said:To address @Malmesbury 's point that it could be a spree killing and the terrorist stuff was incidental, if he had shot up his school or something, then that would be much more plausible. But it wasn't. It was girls who like Taylor Swift. I don't for one second think it was a coincidence.
Like a court of law, after a thorough investigation of the facts.
The Police predetermining "well it looks like this so we are saying its that" prematurely is how you end up with 96 dead football fans being blamed on their own fellow supporters being hooligans instead of the Police taking responsibility for investigating their own failures.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/23/theresa-may-leads-condemnation-of-cowardly-manchester-attack
Speaking outside Downing Street just over 12 hours after a presumed suicide bomber killed at least 22 people and injured 59 more at the end of an Ariana Grande concert, Theresa May condemned the “sickening cowardice” of the attack. She said those connected to the actions of the attacker, since identified as 22-year-old Salman Abedi, would be brought to justice.
“All acts of terrorism are cowardly attacks on innocent people, but this attack stands out for its appalling, sickening cowardice, deliberately targeting innocent, defenceless children and young people who should have been enjoying one of the most memorable nights of their lives,” the prime minister said.1
This discussion has been closed.