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Are we set for the greatest polling failure in history? Sunak thinks so – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,079

    MikeL said:

    Did anyone see Curtice on Newsnight last night?

    BBC use him as a numbers man. But seems to me he is just as good as a political commentator - ie analysing why the numbers move as they do.

    Made a very telling remark about the next Govt having to conduct a spending review by October which will flush out where the cuts are going to have to be made. Implication was why aren't journalists challenging politicians on this. Can't be kicked into long grass - decisions will have to be made imminently.

    Did Curtice screw up the numbers on the 2015 exit poll. Can someone clarify this. Thanks.
    No it was close, just that the 'error' was the difference between hung parliament and Con majority.
  • Options
    PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 577
    Cookie said:

    MikeL said:

    IanB2 said:

    @RedfieldWilton
    Labour leads the Conservatives by 19% in our final poll.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (28 June - 2 July):

    Labour 41% (-1)
    Conservative 22% (+3)
    Reform UK 16% (-2)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-1)
    Green 6% (+1)
    SNP 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 26-27 Jun

    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1808168755731878026

    So some swingback, as anticipated.
    It's the smallest Labour lead form Redfield & Wilton since the 18pp lead on 10th March (42 - 24).
    But all agree that Con has had a far worse campaign than Lab.

    Implication is that none of it - not even D-Day - will make any difference at all when people actually cast their votes.
    What a furore that was. I bet most people have already forgotten about DDay gate.
    Well, somewhere between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5 people have already voted. D-Day gate might have been fresher in a lot of their minds.

    I’m wondering if the early postal vote might be less pro Tory than those who turn up on polling day.

    I’m also wondering whether many who were undecided, but would lean Tory - may just not vote at all in the end.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 12,228
    Leon said:

    Christ now there’s some old c*nt sneezing

    Classic bit of pb disproportionate fury there. Well done.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,529
    ..

    WELSH KLAXON
    Welsh Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 40% (-5)
    RFM: 16% (+3)
    CON: 16% (-2)
    PLC: 14% (+2)
    LDM: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 5% (+1)

    Via @YouGov, 27 Jun - 1 Jul.
    Changes w/ 30 May - 3 Jun.

    Is that a stand alone poll or a sub sample?
  • Options

    Cookie said:

    MikeL said:

    IanB2 said:

    @RedfieldWilton
    Labour leads the Conservatives by 19% in our final poll.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (28 June - 2 July):

    Labour 41% (-1)
    Conservative 22% (+3)
    Reform UK 16% (-2)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-1)
    Green 6% (+1)
    SNP 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 26-27 Jun

    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1808168755731878026

    So some swingback, as anticipated.
    It's the smallest Labour lead form Redfield & Wilton since the 18pp lead on 10th March (42 - 24).
    But all agree that Con has had a far worse campaign than Lab.

    Implication is that none of it - not even D-Day - will make any difference at all when people actually cast their votes.
    What a furore that was. I bet most people have already forgotten about DDay gate.
    Well, somewhere between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5 people have already voted. D-Day gate might have been fresher in a lot of their minds.

    I’m wondering if the early postal vote might be less pro Tory than those who turn up on polling day.

    I’m also wondering whether many who were undecided, but would lean Tory - may just not vote at all in the end.
    1 in 5.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,292
    IanB2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Current flap re: UK postal voting in the light of USA vote-by-mail:

    > In USA prior to 2020 general election, lots of coverage in American media concerning problems with United States Postal Service (USPS) which is a quasi-government whatever-you-call-it. Problems both long-term AND exacerbated by Trump administration screw-ups (some accidental, others deliberate).

    > In UK prior to 2024 general, sudden spike (if not frenzy) in media coverage of Royal Mail's Horizon scandal, along with other issues concerning deterioration (if PB's any indication) of basic postal service.

    > In USA attacks by growing numbers of Republican politicos, pundits, activists on absentee and vote-by-mail as alleged conduits of electoral corruption (amplified by ramping & related disinformation) with effect of making many GOP voters reluctant to vote via the mail, and also making many Dems concerned whether Trump-inspired sabotage of USPS could disenfranchise them; in turn this led lost of Republicans to wait until Election Day to vote AND Democrats to either vote earlier via mail OR use ballot boxes and early in-person voting. My own guess is that Dems benefited more than Reps from this dynamic.

    > In WA State where all elections are conducted via vote-by-mail, the Secretary of State and local county auditors have close & frequent contacts with USPS managers, in order to respond to problems that arise in mail ballots out to voters, and with voters mailing them back to election authorities. AND even better, to plan and prepare for massive numbers of individual postal ballots moving both directions through the system - ballots that need to be properly processed, indeed expedited, in order to enfranchise voters, guard against error AND tampering, and (lest we forget) move all that mail down the line so that BlancheLivermore & etc. can get it where it needs to go.

    > In UK, there is relative absence (I think) of MAGA-GOP anti-postalism (though maybe NOT on PB) so that's not much of a factor. But appears to be growing angst about postal votes NOT getting counted because they're stuck on a truck somewhere on the M1.

    On your second point, Horizon is a Post Office issue, FA to do with the Royal Mail.
    But PO and RM were one and the same company for much of the Horizon era, and still are in the public mind.

    On SS's final point, I don't think the M1 delays are an issue so much as the sorting offices in some urban areas.
    In US major postal sorting centers can also be major bottlenecks for absentee and vote-by-mail ballots; this is exacerbated by fact that many 2nd-tier sorting centers on deliver mail every other day or suchlike. Including deliveries of outgoing & incoming ballots.

    Here in WA State you can see this reflected in daily returned ballot statistics, where some counties - including some of the biggest - will have next to no returns one day, then thousands the next, then squat the day after that, then . . .
    Yes, but in the UK, standard envelopes are all machine sorted and the office is configured to be clear of first class mail after every evening despatch. If there’s a problem in RM it’s with staffing shortages in delivery offices - but this affects delivery of PVs to punters and not their return to the council.
    Not sure what differences are between UK vs US postal sorting offices. Except the one just south of Seattle serving much of western Washington is HUMONGOUS the size of a smallish Death Star.

    As for delivery of postal ballots to voters, in WA State the lion's share are mailed out three weeks before primary & general elections; military & overseas ballots go even sooner. Voters who didn't receive a ballot (never arrived OR they weren't previously registered) can request one afterwards, but in final days before Election Day, you're best bet is to show up at the election office in person, to get your ballot and vote it then and there.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,450
    edited July 2

    Leon said:

    Christ now there’s some old c*nt sneezing

    Have a lemsip.
    Touche. One day this will be me

    But right now it isn’t and I want to chuck him in Portsmouth harbour. I hate ferries
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    MikeL said:

    Did anyone see Curtice on Newsnight last night?

    BBC use him as a numbers man. But seems to me he is just as good as a political commentator - ie analysing why the numbers move as they do.

    Made a very telling remark about the next Govt having to conduct a spending review by October which will flush out where the cuts are going to have to be made. Implication was why aren't journalists challenging politicians on this. Can't be kicked into long grass - decisions will have to be made imminently.

    Did Curtice screw up the numbers on the 2015 exit poll. Can someone clarify this. Thanks.
    No it was close, just that the 'error' was the difference between hung parliament and Con majority.
    Yes. That's it. Thanks.
  • Options
    Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 643
    My favourite prediction so far....

    ITV Wales poll saying that Tories will get -4.7% in Rhondda (that is minus 4.7%)

    If only......
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,898

    ..

    WELSH KLAXON
    Welsh Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 40% (-5)
    RFM: 16% (+3)
    CON: 16% (-2)
    PLC: 14% (+2)
    LDM: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 5% (+1)

    Via @YouGov, 27 Jun - 1 Jul.
    Changes w/ 30 May - 3 Jun.

    Is that a stand alone poll or a sub sample?
    Stand alone Welsh poll
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,730
    Evening all - just a test from a different machine.
  • Options

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    mwadams said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    On UNS Sir John Curtice is forecasting a result closer to what Michael Howard got in 2005 for Sunak than what Major got in 1997 and Hague got in 2001. On an MRP forecast though Curtice says the Tory result could be even worse than 1997

    'Sir John Curtice projects 370 Labour seats, 191 Tory seats and 34 LD and 34 SNP seats, 2 Plaid, 1 Green and 0 Reform on universal national swing based on analysis of 8 recent polls.

    However on an MRP change the results look significantly different, with Curtice saying Labour could then get 447 seats, the Tories 98, the LDs 53, the SNP 21, Reform 8 and the Greens and Plaid 2 each'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cl7y2xj728do

    So he doesnt know.

    Here's my regular reminder that if one methodology gives one result and another gives another, the truth is not in splitting the difference, the truth is that one of them is wrong. We now have to decide whether polls+UNS is right, or MRP is right.
    Or neither, because something non-uniform is happening, but not based on the assumptions in the MRP model.
    Curtice, good as he is doesn't know, and he thought Labour was going to win in Rochdale !
    But at 10 PM he will know.
    Even more tantalising than that he will start to know during the day, and will probably have a good idea several hours earlier.
    Will he bet on it though :D
    God what a sickener that would be if Sir John Curtice turns out to have millions offshore from insider betting off his exit poll info over the years.

    It'd be like discovering your dad had another family in the next door town.
    Looking at the state of him, he’d be well advised to go cash in some time very soon.
    Something about him I do like. I do find him trustworthy.
    Correction. I do not find him trustworthy. He has a high opinion of himself. Quite sickening.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,079
    Cookie said:

    @kinabalu - you may be interested in this article, which touches on what we were discussing earlier quite perceptively, I think:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/nigel-farage-is-not-the-future/

    TLDR: Farage <> Le Pen, Reform <> RN

    "So it’s hardly surprising that Nigel Farage isn’t keen on Marine Le Pen and the RN. Rather than ‘far right’, he is really a malcontent of boomer liberalism, railing against the social outcomes of the post-1980s consensus while wishing to maintain the economic conditions that create them. He is ideologically hostile to the populist, nationalist and common good economics practised and advocated elsewhere in Europe by leaders and thinkers whom his followers and opponents would consider his natural allies. His natural ally is fellow boomer-whisperer Donald Trump.

    When the liberal left casts Farage as a 20-a-day Oswald Mosley, it commits a cardinal sin of politics: misunderstanding the enemy. Farage flirts now and then with incendiary rhetoric but if he is the apogee of national populism in Britain, we will be very lucky indeed. I suspect, however, that he won’t be. A few years back, New York Times columnist Ross Douthat observed: ‘If you dislike the religious right, wait till you meet the post-religious right.’ I’d suggest to progressives that the same applies to Reform’s leader: if you dislike Farage, will till you see who comes after him."

    Yes there's a lot worse than Farage in Populist Right world.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,730
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Christ now there’s some old c*nt sneezing

    Classic bit of pb disproportionate fury there. Well done.
    Maybe he's in front of a mirror?
  • Options
    novanova Posts: 663
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    The Conservative campaign is really stepping up:

    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1808155567614992811

    still taller than Rishi
    You do realise that Rishi isn't that short don't you? And that a fair section of the population is by definition short? I'm not sure all these heightist jokes land quite as you want.
    You're saying I shouldn't be punching down?
    I don't really care about punching down. Just why the obsession with Rishi's height?

    If the average height for a man is 5"10, then being 5"7 is no more unusual than being 6"1. He's not even that short anyway!
    He looks shorter than he is, because he is so slender and wears skinny trousers.
    Yes it's not the height that's unusual it's the all round tininess.
    Though the height too - 5'7''? Really? I think there's some stretching of the truth going on there.

    I have, I should point out, nothing against the tragically undersized. But he is remarkably small.
    He doesn't look that small next to Starmer - so if he's rounding up, then 5'7" might not be far off.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,843
    MikeL said:

    IanB2 said:

    @RedfieldWilton
    Labour leads the Conservatives by 19% in our final poll.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (28 June - 2 July):

    Labour 41% (-1)
    Conservative 22% (+3)
    Reform UK 16% (-2)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-1)
    Green 6% (+1)
    SNP 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 26-27 Jun

    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1808168755731878026

    So some swingback, as anticipated.
    It's the smallest Labour lead form Redfield & Wilton since the 18pp lead on 10th March (42 - 24).
    But all agree that Con has had a far worse campaign than Lab.

    Implication is that none of it - not even D-Day - will make any difference at all when people actually cast their votes.
    Most campaigns make no difference. So probably the unwind we will see will unwind the Farage boost and the Tory slump and take their ratings back to where they were two weeks back.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,261
    Cookie said:

    @kinabalu - you may be interested in this article, which touches on what we were discussing earlier quite perceptively, I think:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/nigel-farage-is-not-the-future/

    TLDR: Farage <> Le Pen, Reform <> RN

    "So it’s hardly surprising that Nigel Farage isn’t keen on Marine Le Pen and the RN. Rather than ‘far right’, he is really a malcontent of boomer liberalism, railing against the social outcomes of the post-1980s consensus while wishing to maintain the economic conditions that create them. He is ideologically hostile to the populist, nationalist and common good economics practised and advocated elsewhere in Europe by leaders and thinkers whom his followers and opponents would consider his natural allies. His natural ally is fellow boomer-whisperer Donald Trump.

    When the liberal left casts Farage as a 20-a-day Oswald Mosley, it commits a cardinal sin of politics: misunderstanding the enemy. Farage flirts now and then with incendiary rhetoric but if he is the apogee of national populism in Britain, we will be very lucky indeed. I suspect, however, that he won’t be. A few years back, New York Times columnist Ross Douthat observed: ‘If you dislike the religious right, wait till you meet the post-religious right.’ I’d suggest to progressives that the same applies to Reform’s leader: if you dislike Farage, will till you see who comes after him."

    I somewhat agree with this. Farage is an out and out charlatan. Boris Johnson without the jokes but with a lot more focus. He's very manipulative. It's all about him.

    Le Pen is ideological. She believes the stuff she peddles. She's the leader but it's the movement that's the thing.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,460

    MikeL said:

    Did anyone see Curtice on Newsnight last night?

    BBC use him as a numbers man. But seems to me he is just as good as a political commentator - ie analysing why the numbers move as they do.

    Made a very telling remark about the next Govt having to conduct a spending review by October which will flush out where the cuts are going to have to be made. Implication was why aren't journalists challenging politicians on this. Can't be kicked into long grass - decisions will have to be made imminently.

    Did Curtice screw up the numbers on the 2015 exit poll. Can someone clarify this. Thanks.
    It was a pretty decent exit poll IMO.

    It slightly underestimated the Conservative seat number, though would have been within the MOE and right at the start of the show Curtice was clear he wasn't ruling out a Con majority.

    It correctly identified the Lib-Dem evisceration and the SNP wave in Scotland both of which were pretty bold calls.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,102

    Cookie said:

    MikeL said:

    IanB2 said:

    @RedfieldWilton
    Labour leads the Conservatives by 19% in our final poll.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (28 June - 2 July):

    Labour 41% (-1)
    Conservative 22% (+3)
    Reform UK 16% (-2)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-1)
    Green 6% (+1)
    SNP 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 26-27 Jun

    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1808168755731878026

    So some swingback, as anticipated.
    It's the smallest Labour lead form Redfield & Wilton since the 18pp lead on 10th March (42 - 24).
    But all agree that Con has had a far worse campaign than Lab.

    Implication is that none of it - not even D-Day - will make any difference at all when people actually cast their votes.
    What a furore that was. I bet most people have already forgotten about DDay gate.
    Well, somewhere between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5 people have already voted. D-Day gate might have been fresher in a lot of their minds.

    I’m wondering if the early postal vote might be less pro Tory than those who turn up on polling day.

    I’m also wondering whether many who were undecided, but would lean Tory - may just not vote at all in the end.
    1 in 4 of the electorate or 1 in 4 of expected turnout?
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,807
    GIN1138 said:

    MikeL said:

    Did anyone see Curtice on Newsnight last night?

    BBC use him as a numbers man. But seems to me he is just as good as a political commentator - ie analysing why the numbers move as they do.

    Made a very telling remark about the next Govt having to conduct a spending review by October which will flush out where the cuts are going to have to be made. Implication was why aren't journalists challenging politicians on this. Can't be kicked into long grass - decisions will have to be made imminently.

    Yes, Sir John was very bullish when speaking to Lady Harman. Have a feeling this may be his final election calculating the numbers and he'll be retiring to become a general political commentator soon?
    He is 70, and does not particularly enjoy the spotlight. I think if he retires, he retires, this could indeed be his swan song.
  • Options
    FF43 said:

    Cookie said:

    @kinabalu - you may be interested in this article, which touches on what we were discussing earlier quite perceptively, I think:
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/nigel-farage-is-not-the-future/

    TLDR: Farage <> Le Pen, Reform <> RN

    "So it’s hardly surprising that Nigel Farage isn’t keen on Marine Le Pen and the RN. Rather than ‘far right’, he is really a malcontent of boomer liberalism, railing against the social outcomes of the post-1980s consensus while wishing to maintain the economic conditions that create them. He is ideologically hostile to the populist, nationalist and common good economics practised and advocated elsewhere in Europe by leaders and thinkers whom his followers and opponents would consider his natural allies. His natural ally is fellow boomer-whisperer Donald Trump.

    When the liberal left casts Farage as a 20-a-day Oswald Mosley, it commits a cardinal sin of politics: misunderstanding the enemy. Farage flirts now and then with incendiary rhetoric but if he is the apogee of national populism in Britain, we will be very lucky indeed. I suspect, however, that he won’t be. A few years back, New York Times columnist Ross Douthat observed: ‘If you dislike the religious right, wait till you meet the post-religious right.’ I’d suggest to progressives that the same applies to Reform’s leader: if you dislike Farage, will till you see who comes after him."

    I somewhat agree with this. Farage is an out and out charlatan. Boris Johnson without the jokes but with a lot more focus. He's very manipulative. It's all about him.

    Le Pen is ideological. She believes the stuff she peddles. She's the leader but it's the movement that's the thing.
    I completely agree with your comments about Farage. Hole in One!
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 12,228
    edited July 2
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Christ now there’s some old c*nt sneezing

    Have a lemsip.
    Touche. One day this will be me

    But right now it isn’t and I want to chuck him in Portsmouth harbour. I hate ferries
    Really? I love ferries.
    One of the wonderful thing about ferries is that unlike aircraft, you don't have to stay near the old c*nt sneezing. You can go elsewhere.
    I could stay and stand and stare at the sea for pretty much the whole crossing. On an aeroplane it feels like being picked up from one location and plonked down in another. It's not travel, it's teleportation. Whereas on a ferry you move through the landscape.
    And while it's wonderful to peer out your little window from a plane as you descend through the clouds, and see Kinder Scout below you and tick off the suburbs (Hyde, Bredbury, Stockport, Cheadle Heath, Cheadle Hulme, Heald Green, Moss Nook) as you descend into Manchester Airport; to look out from deck at the slow arrival of land in the distance as it gradually assumes shape, and then becomes the recognisable shape of Devon, and there, THERE is my homeland ,and then be slowly surrounded by Plymouth Harbour, is an order of magnitude more marvellous an arrival.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,843

    IanB2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Current flap re: UK postal voting in the light of USA vote-by-mail:

    > In USA prior to 2020 general election, lots of coverage in American media concerning problems with United States Postal Service (USPS) which is a quasi-government whatever-you-call-it. Problems both long-term AND exacerbated by Trump administration screw-ups (some accidental, others deliberate).

    > In UK prior to 2024 general, sudden spike (if not frenzy) in media coverage of Royal Mail's Horizon scandal, along with other issues concerning deterioration (if PB's any indication) of basic postal service.

    > In USA attacks by growing numbers of Republican politicos, pundits, activists on absentee and vote-by-mail as alleged conduits of electoral corruption (amplified by ramping & related disinformation) with effect of making many GOP voters reluctant to vote via the mail, and also making many Dems concerned whether Trump-inspired sabotage of USPS could disenfranchise them; in turn this led lost of Republicans to wait until Election Day to vote AND Democrats to either vote earlier via mail OR use ballot boxes and early in-person voting. My own guess is that Dems benefited more than Reps from this dynamic.

    > In WA State where all elections are conducted via vote-by-mail, the Secretary of State and local county auditors have close & frequent contacts with USPS managers, in order to respond to problems that arise in mail ballots out to voters, and with voters mailing them back to election authorities. AND even better, to plan and prepare for massive numbers of individual postal ballots moving both directions through the system - ballots that need to be properly processed, indeed expedited, in order to enfranchise voters, guard against error AND tampering, and (lest we forget) move all that mail down the line so that BlancheLivermore & etc. can get it where it needs to go.

    > In UK, there is relative absence (I think) of MAGA-GOP anti-postalism (though maybe NOT on PB) so that's not much of a factor. But appears to be growing angst about postal votes NOT getting counted because they're stuck on a truck somewhere on the M1.

    On your second point, Horizon is a Post Office issue, FA to do with the Royal Mail.
    But PO and RM were one and the same company for much of the Horizon era, and still are in the public mind.

    On SS's final point, I don't think the M1 delays are an issue so much as the sorting offices in some urban areas.
    In US major postal sorting centers can also be major bottlenecks for absentee and vote-by-mail ballots; this is exacerbated by fact that many 2nd-tier sorting centers on deliver mail every other day or suchlike. Including deliveries of outgoing & incoming ballots.

    Here in WA State you can see this reflected in daily returned ballot statistics, where some counties - including some of the biggest - will have next to no returns one day, then thousands the next, then squat the day after that, then . . .
    Yes, but in the UK, standard envelopes are all machine sorted and the office is configured to be clear of first class mail after every evening despatch. If there’s a problem in RM it’s with staffing shortages in delivery offices - but this affects delivery of PVs to punters and not their return to the council.
    Not sure what differences are between UK vs US postal sorting offices. Except the one just south of Seattle serving much of western Washington is HUMONGOUS the size of a smallish Death Star.

    As for delivery of postal ballots to voters, in WA State the lion's share are mailed out three weeks before primary & general elections; military & overseas ballots go even sooner. Voters who didn't receive a ballot (never arrived OR they weren't previously registered) can request one afterwards, but in final days before Election Day, you're best bet is to show up at the election office in person, to get your ballot and vote it then and there.
    I think you’d be surprised at the amount of technology deployed in the UK. Americans often think they’re ahead in the technology race - and in Silicon Valley and the military, they undoubtedly are, but on the deployment of technology in ordinary life applications, Europe is well ahead of the US such that visitors to the US are often surprised how backward many things seem there.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,460
    Cicero said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MikeL said:

    Did anyone see Curtice on Newsnight last night?

    BBC use him as a numbers man. But seems to me he is just as good as a political commentator - ie analysing why the numbers move as they do.

    Made a very telling remark about the next Govt having to conduct a spending review by October which will flush out where the cuts are going to have to be made. Implication was why aren't journalists challenging politicians on this. Can't be kicked into long grass - decisions will have to be made imminently.

    Yes, Sir John was very bullish when speaking to Lady Harman. Have a feeling this may be his final election calculating the numbers and he'll be retiring to become a general political commentator soon?
    He is 70, and does not particularly enjoy the spotlight. I think if he retires, he retires, this could indeed be his swan song.
    I suspect his prediction/warning, that by being so vague about the challenges ahead Labour are just storing up trouble for the future, will turn out to be pretty accurate as well.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,234
    Did Sadiq Khan really announce today, 48 hours before the Parliementary elections, that he was going to start charging (in money) electric cars to come into London?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/02/sadiq-khan-impose-congestion-charge-electric-cars-london/
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,843
    Cicero said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MikeL said:

    Did anyone see Curtice on Newsnight last night?

    BBC use him as a numbers man. But seems to me he is just as good as a political commentator - ie analysing why the numbers move as they do.

    Made a very telling remark about the next Govt having to conduct a spending review by October which will flush out where the cuts are going to have to be made. Implication was why aren't journalists challenging politicians on this. Can't be kicked into long grass - decisions will have to be made imminently.

    Yes, Sir John was very bullish when speaking to Lady Harman. Have a feeling this may be his final election calculating the numbers and he'll be retiring to become a general political commentator soon?
    He is 70, and does not particularly enjoy the spotlight. I think if he retires, he retires, this could indeed be his swan song.
    No pressure, then.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,545

    pigeon said:

    Little bit of a Tory uptick, but nothing to set the world on fire.

    Unless the Reform vote implodes in the privacy of the polling booth, the Conservatives will be well short of 30% of the popular vote. Easily their worst ever result at a GE.

    Probably a swingback in seats where the Reform minded tories know Reform don't have a hope.
    Having had to explain to a neighbour that, despite the postal ballot paper having a local place-name on it, this wasn't an election for the local council ... and then that if she wanted Rishi Sunak to remain prime minister it was the Conservative candidate she should vote for ... I have my doubts as to the sophistication of the electorate.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,325

    ..

    WELSH KLAXON
    Welsh Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 40% (-5)
    RFM: 16% (+3)
    CON: 16% (-2)
    PLC: 14% (+2)
    LDM: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 5% (+1)

    Via @YouGov, 27 Jun - 1 Jul.
    Changes w/ 30 May - 3 Jun.

    Is that a stand alone poll or a sub sample?
    A xenomorph may be involved.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,194
    Cicero said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MikeL said:

    Did anyone see Curtice on Newsnight last night?

    BBC use him as a numbers man. But seems to me he is just as good as a political commentator - ie analysing why the numbers move as they do.

    Made a very telling remark about the next Govt having to conduct a spending review by October which will flush out where the cuts are going to have to be made. Implication was why aren't journalists challenging politicians on this. Can't be kicked into long grass - decisions will have to be made imminently.

    Yes, Sir John was very bullish when speaking to Lady Harman. Have a feeling this may be his final election calculating the numbers and he'll be retiring to become a general political commentator soon?
    He is 70, and does not particularly enjoy the spotlight. I think if he retires, he retires, this could indeed be his swan song.
    He doesn't need to show up for television, he must have colleagues.
  • Options
    ScarpiaScarpia Posts: 50
    DougSeal said:

    Redfield Baxtered

    LAB 468 (41%)
    CON 69 (22%)
    LIB DEM 67 (10%)
    REFUK 6 (16%)
    GREEN 3 (6%)
    SNP 15

    Labour Majority 286

    Lib Dems to finish 2nd in seats without Labour has drifted out to 7.6 and I really like it on these poll showings. Seems like it really doesn’t need a huge amount to line up to come off, even if it looks slightly less likely than when the Tories were polling in the teens
    The importance of the Opposition in the system of parliamentary government has long received practical recognition in the procedure of Parliament. In 1937 statutory recognition was accorded through the grant of a salary to the Leader of the Opposition. The prevalence (on the whole) of the two-party system has usually obviated any uncertainty as to which party has the right to be called the ‘Official Opposition’: it is the largest minority party which is prepared, in the event of the resignation of the government, to assume office [and in a footnote: The Speaker’s decision on the identity of the Leader of the Opposition is final (Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 (c27) s2 (2)).

    - Erskine May, Parliamentary Practice, 23rd edition, pp247-48

    If we ended up with the above results the Greens and LDs should state to the Speaker that they're prepared to form a coalition minority administration should the Government resign. That would give him a headache.
    More likely a conjoining/coalition/arrangement (?) with sister party APNI, especially if the latter gets a decent haul
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,843
    Chris said:

    pigeon said:

    Little bit of a Tory uptick, but nothing to set the world on fire.

    Unless the Reform vote implodes in the privacy of the polling booth, the Conservatives will be well short of 30% of the popular vote. Easily their worst ever result at a GE.

    Probably a swingback in seats where the Reform minded tories know Reform don't have a hope.
    Having had to explain to a neighbour that, despite the postal ballot paper having a local place-name on it, this wasn't an election for the local council ... and then that if she wanted Rishi Sunak to remain prime minister it was the Conservative candidate she should vote for ... I have my doubts as to the sophistication of the electorate.
    That’s merely outing yourself as someone who has never been involved in front line politics.
  • Options
    TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 699

    ..

    WELSH KLAXON
    Welsh Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 40% (-5)
    RFM: 16% (+3)
    CON: 16% (-2)
    PLC: 14% (+2)
    LDM: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 5% (+1)

    Via @YouGov, 27 Jun - 1 Jul.
    Changes w/ 30 May - 3 Jun.

    Is that a stand alone poll or a sub sample?
    A xenomorph may be involved.
    Is this another bug hunt?
  • Options
    ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 37
    Penddu2 said:

    My favourite prediction so far....

    ITV Wales poll saying that Tories will get -4.7% in Rhondda (that is minus 4.7%)

    If only......

    My favourite is the fact the pompously named party of Wales is fourth. How embarrassing for the nationalists.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,542
    Scarpia said:

    DougSeal said:

    Redfield Baxtered

    LAB 468 (41%)
    CON 69 (22%)
    LIB DEM 67 (10%)
    REFUK 6 (16%)
    GREEN 3 (6%)
    SNP 15

    Labour Majority 286

    Lib Dems to finish 2nd in seats without Labour has drifted out to 7.6 and I really like it on these poll showings. Seems like it really doesn’t need a huge amount to line up to come off, even if it looks slightly less likely than when the Tories were polling in the teens
    The importance of the Opposition in the system of parliamentary government has long received practical recognition in the procedure of Parliament. In 1937 statutory recognition was accorded through the grant of a salary to the Leader of the Opposition. The prevalence (on the whole) of the two-party system has usually obviated any uncertainty as to which party has the right to be called the ‘Official Opposition’: it is the largest minority party which is prepared, in the event of the resignation of the government, to assume office [and in a footnote: The Speaker’s decision on the identity of the Leader of the Opposition is final (Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 (c27) s2 (2)).

    - Erskine May, Parliamentary Practice, 23rd edition, pp247-48

    If we ended up with the above results the Greens and LDs should state to the Speaker that they're prepared to form a coalition minority administration should the Government resign. That would give him a headache.
    More likely a conjoining/coalition/arrangement (?) with sister party APNI, especially if the latter gets a decent haul
    A decent haul for the APNI would generally be 1.
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,310
    edited July 2
    MikeL said:

    Did anyone see Curtice on Newsnight last night?

    BBC use him as a numbers man. But seems to me he is just as good as a political commentator - ie analysing why the numbers move as they do.

    Made a very telling remark about the next Govt having to conduct a spending review by October which will flush out where the cuts are going to have to be made. Implication was why aren't journalists challenging politicians on this. Can't be kicked into long grass - decisions will have to be made imminently.

    I think the cliff edge for the spending review is actually December - it played a part in some of our discussions earlier in the year around the likely election date.

    The Institute for Government are recommending an expedited spending review covering only a single year, with a comprehensive review scheduled for next year to cover the remainder of the parliament:


    (https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/2024-05/when-to-run-the-next-spending-review.pdf)
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,529

    ..

    WELSH KLAXON
    Welsh Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 40% (-5)
    RFM: 16% (+3)
    CON: 16% (-2)
    PLC: 14% (+2)
    LDM: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 5% (+1)

    Via @YouGov, 27 Jun - 1 Jul.
    Changes w/ 30 May - 3 Jun.

    Is that a stand alone poll or a sub sample?
    Stand alone Welsh poll
    I went into Barry for work today. Quite a few Reform placards in Barry and in the fields around the airport. Labour in the towns and villages and the usual sea of blue placarded field down to one or two in just a handful.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,250
    edited July 2
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Christ now there’s some old c*nt sneezing

    Have a lemsip.
    Touche. One day this will be me

    But right now it isn’t and I want to chuck him in Portsmouth harbour. I hate ferries
    Really? I love ferries.
    One of the wonderful thing about ferries is that unlike aircraft, you don't have to stay near the old c*nt sneezing. You can go elsewhere.
    I could stay and stand and stare at the sea for pretty much the whole crossing. On an aeroplane it feels like being picked up from one location and plonked down in another. It's not travel, it's teleportation. Whereas on a ferry you move through the landscape.
    And while it's wonderful to peer out your little window from a plane as you descend through the clouds, and see Kinder Scout below you and tick off the suburbs (Hyde, Bredbury, Stockport, Cheadle Heath, Cheadle Hulme, Heald Green, Moss Nook) as you descend into Manchester Airport; to look out from deck at the slow arrival of land in the distance as it gradually assumes shape, and then becomes the recognisable shape of Devon, and there, THERE is my homeland ,and then be slowly surrounded by Plymouth Harbour, is an order of magnitude more marvellous an arrival.
    I like ferries too. Long crossings, preferably overnight with a cabin but not arriving too early in the morning. And with good facilities including restaurants and a nice deck area.

    But hate the idea of a cruise. Very different thing.

    The best ferry journey I’ve done was a Greek one from Piraeus to Naxos. Pleasant weather and not too busy. I have an overnighter coming up in December from Dakar to Ziguinchor, which should be fun if a little nervewracking as that crossing was the scene of one of the world’s worst ever ferry disasters.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,420

    Penddu2 said:

    My favourite prediction so far....

    ITV Wales poll saying that Tories will get -4.7% in Rhondda (that is minus 4.7%)

    If only......

    My favourite is the fact the pompously named party of Wales is fourth. How embarrassing for the nationalists.
    The idea that they are not named for Wales would surprise Welsh Labour and the Welsh Conservative Party.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,545
    IanB2 said:

    Chris said:

    pigeon said:

    Little bit of a Tory uptick, but nothing to set the world on fire.

    Unless the Reform vote implodes in the privacy of the polling booth, the Conservatives will be well short of 30% of the popular vote. Easily their worst ever result at a GE.

    Probably a swingback in seats where the Reform minded tories know Reform don't have a hope.
    Having had to explain to a neighbour that, despite the postal ballot paper having a local place-name on it, this wasn't an election for the local council ... and then that if she wanted Rishi Sunak to remain prime minister it was the Conservative candidate she should vote for ... I have my doubts as to the sophistication of the electorate.
    That’s merely outing yourself as someone who has never been involved in front line politics.
    The other thing that gives me doubts is the frequency with which people jump to false conclusions on the basis of complete ignorance.
  • Options
    ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 37
    Carnyx said:

    Penddu2 said:

    My favourite prediction so far....

    ITV Wales poll saying that Tories will get -4.7% in Rhondda (that is minus 4.7%)

    If only......

    My favourite is the fact the pompously named party of Wales is fourth. How embarrassing for the nationalists.
    The idea that they are not named for Wales would surprise Welsh Labour and the Welsh Conservative Party.
    They call themselves "The" party of Wales. Hench the pomposity accusation.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,843
    Goal?
  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,292
    Sandpit said:

    Did Sadiq Khan really announce today, 48 hours before the Parliementary elections, that he was going to start charging (in money) electric cars to come into London?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/02/sadiq-khan-impose-congestion-charge-electric-cars-london/

    I have just seen this news, a real sign of hubris just over 48 hours before polling booths close, can't imagine that will go down well in some areas.
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,969
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Christ now there’s some old c*nt sneezing

    Have a lemsip.
    Touche. One day this will be me

    But right now it isn’t and I want to chuck him in Portsmouth harbour. I hate ferries
    Really? I love ferries.
    One of the wonderful thing about ferries is that unlike aircraft, you don't have to stay near the old c*nt sneezing. You can go elsewhere.
    I could stay and stand and stare at the sea for pretty much the whole crossing. On an aeroplane it feels like being picked up from one location and plonked down in another. It's not travel, it's teleportation. Whereas on a ferry you move through the landscape.
    And while it's wonderful to peer out your little window from a plane as you descend through the clouds, and see Kinder Scout below you and tick off the suburbs (Hyde, Bredbury, Stockport, Cheadle Heath, Cheadle Hulme, Heald Green, Moss Nook) as you descend into Manchester Airport; to look out from deck at the slow arrival of land in the distance as it gradually assumes shape, and then becomes the recognisable shape of Devon, and there, THERE is my homeland ,and then be slowly surrounded by Plymouth Harbour, is an order of magnitude more marvellous an arrival.
    That is why I love cruises. You are somewhere in the midst of the ocean when you suddenly see a blob on the horizon. As you slowly approach the definition increases and you begin to see the colours and the shapes of the destination. The world becomes real again.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,843
    Checked, offside. Still 1:0
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,020
    rcs1000 said:
    One thing the article fails to make clear is whether eating dog is symptomatic of, or a risk factor for brain worm.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,194
    edited July 2
    Carnyx said:

    Penddu2 said:

    My favourite prediction so far....

    ITV Wales poll saying that Tories will get -4.7% in Rhondda (that is minus 4.7%)

    If only......

    My favourite is the fact the pompously named party of Wales is fourth. How embarrassing for the nationalists.
    The idea that they are not named for Wales would surprise Welsh Labour and the Welsh Conservative Party.
    I don't think that was the claim - one is named the Party of Wales, the others simply add Welsh to their general party name, the for Wales as you put it.

    That might not be an important distinction, but it is a distinction.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,841
    @TomHCalver
    One of the many perks of running a data journalism team is that you can run sweepstakes with lots of very smart people.

    Here are the average @thetimes data team seat predictions for Thursday (n=11)

    🔵 Con 96
    🔴 Lab 446
    🟢 Green 4
    🟡 SNP 16
    🟠 Lib Dem 63
    🟣 Reform 5

    https://x.com/TomHCalver/status/1808089365597270031
  • Options
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Christ now there’s some old c*nt sneezing

    Have a lemsip.
    Touche. One day this will be me

    But right now it isn’t and I want to chuck him in Portsmouth harbour. I hate ferries
    Really? I love ferries.
    One of the wonderful thing about ferries is that unlike aircraft, you don't have to stay near the old c*nt sneezing. You can go elsewhere.
    I could stay and stand and stare at the sea for pretty much the whole crossing. On an aeroplane it feels like being picked up from one location and plonked down in another. It's not travel, it's teleportation. Whereas on a ferry you move through the landscape.
    And while it's wonderful to peer out your little window from a plane as you descend through the clouds, and see Kinder Scout below you and tick off the suburbs (Hyde, Bredbury, Stockport, Cheadle Heath, Cheadle Hulme, Heald Green, Moss Nook) as you descend into Manchester Airport; to look out from deck at the slow arrival of land in the distance as it gradually assumes shape, and then becomes the recognisable shape of Devon, and there, THERE is my homeland ,and then be slowly surrounded by Plymouth Harbour, is an order of magnitude more marvellous an arrival.
    I like ferries too. Long crossings, preferably overnight with a cabin but not arriving too early in the morning. And with good facilities including restaurants and a nice deck area.

    But hate the idea of a cruise. Very different thing.

    The best ferry journey I’ve done was a Greek one from Piraeus to Naxos. Pleasant weather and not too busy. I have an overnighter coming up in December from Dakar to Ziguinchor, which should be fun if a little nervewracking as that crossing was the scene of one of the world’s worst ever ferry disasters.
    Picton Ferry between New Zealand's North and South Island is a highlight of any visit.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,194
    Andy_JS said:

    It looks like every seat is counting overnight for the first time ever at a general election, (although it did happen with the Brexit referendum). Well done Iain Dale, whose campaign prevented many councils from attempting to abandon overnight counts at the 2010 election.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-general-election-results-timing-b2571952.html

    Even St Ives?
  • Options
    PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 577
    edited July 2
    Scott_xP said:

    @TomHCalver
    One of the many perks of running a data journalism team is that you can run sweepstakes with lots of very smart people.

    Here are the average @thetimes data team seat predictions for Thursday (n=11)

    🔵 Con 96
    🔴 Lab 446
    🟢 Green 4
    🟡 SNP 16
    🟠 Lib Dem 63
    🟣 Reform 5

    https://x.com/TomHCalver/status/1808089365597270031

    This is cool.

    Reminds me of, I think it was More In Common, last night posting a Wisdom of the Crowd poll, where the respondents had to guess what the final result would be, and it was very close to recent MiC VI polls!
  • Options
    bobbobbobbob Posts: 76
    edited July 2
    Sandpit said:

    Did Sadiq Khan really announce today, 48 hours before the Parliementary elections, that he was going to start charging (in money) electric cars to come into London?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/02/sadiq-khan-impose-congestion-charge-electric-cars-london/

    No he hasn’t nor has tfl

    if you read it it’s not a real news article it’s a thinly veiled Tory puff piece

    Pretty shameless tbh
  • Options
    novanova Posts: 663
    fitalass said:

    Sandpit said:

    Did Sadiq Khan really announce today, 48 hours before the Parliementary elections, that he was going to start charging (in money) electric cars to come into London?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/02/sadiq-khan-impose-congestion-charge-electric-cars-london/

    I have just seen this news, a real sign of hubris just over 48 hours before polling booths close, can't imagine that will go down well in some areas.
    Have they actually "announced" it?

    Reading the article, it's not clear at all, and certainly doesn't sound like any kind of actual announcement.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,000
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Penddu2 said:

    My favourite prediction so far....

    ITV Wales poll saying that Tories will get -4.7% in Rhondda (that is minus 4.7%)

    If only......

    My favourite is the fact the pompously named party of Wales is fourth. How embarrassing for the nationalists.
    The idea that they are not named for Wales would surprise Welsh Labour and the Welsh Conservative Party.
    I don't think that was the claim - one is named the Party of Wales, the others simply add Welsh to their general party name, the for Wales as you put it.

    That might not be an important distinction, but it is a distinction.
    A distinction of importance may not be that. A distinction but that it may be. :)
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,165
    kjh said:

    DougSeal said:

    Redfield Baxtered

    LAB 468 (41%)
    CON 69 (22%)
    LIB DEM 67 (10%)
    REFUK 6 (16%)
    GREEN 3 (6%)
    SNP 15

    Labour Majority 286

    Lib Dems to finish 2nd in seats without Labour has drifted out to 7.6 and I really like it on these poll showings. Seems like it really doesn’t need a huge amount to line up to come off, even if it looks slightly less likely than when the Tories were polling in the teens
    The importance of the Opposition in the system of parliamentary government has long received practical recognition in the procedure of Parliament. In 1937 statutory recognition was accorded through the grant of a salary to the Leader of the Opposition. The prevalence (on the whole) of the two-party system has usually obviated any uncertainty as to which party has the right to be called the ‘Official Opposition’: it is the largest minority party which is prepared, in the event of the resignation of the government, to assume office [and in a footnote: The Speaker’s decision on the identity of the Leader of the Opposition is final (Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 (c27) s2 (2)).

    - Erskine May, Parliamentary Practice, 23rd edition, pp247-48

    If we ended up with the above results the Greens and LDs should state to the Speaker that they're prepared to form a coalition minority administration should the Government resign. That would give him a headache.
    I'm sure under those circumstances the Alliance would take the LD whip. They already do in the HofL and presumably don't in the HofC because there is no benefit in doing so. A result like that suddenly becomes a huge benefit to do so. Many members of the Alliance are also LD members.
    Yes indeed. My blindspot (and TBF to myself I'm not the only one) led me to overlook the Alliance. Apologies to Norn Iron posters on here.
  • Options
    Starmer leads Sunak by 23%.

    Who do British voters think would be the better PM for the UK? (28 June - 2 July)

    Keir Starmer 48% (-1)
    Rishi Sunak 25% (–)

    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1808178822191501465

    Something has gone wrong with the polling. This implies Starmer has had a very good campaign.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,420
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:
    One thing the article fails to make clear is whether eating dog is symptomatic of, or a risk factor for brain worm.
    Depends what kind of worm. Could be a tapeworm larva or rather intermediate stage (bladderworm) which would come from ingested eggs from e.g. pig or human shit. Other poss are from undercooked meat (some nematodes). And so on and so forth. Depends how well cooked Rover was in the first place, therefore; though he doesn't look that undercooked. I would wonder about the salad garnish.
  • Options
    bobbobbobbob Posts: 76
    edited July 2

    Starmer leads Sunak by 23%.

    Who do British voters think would be the better PM for the UK? (28 June - 2 July)

    Keir Starmer 48% (-1)
    Rishi Sunak 25% (–)

    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1808178822191501465

    Something has gone wrong with the polling. This implies Starmer has had a very good campaign.

    Most people prefer chlamydia to syphilis too and that’s not because chlamydia has good PR
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,800

    Starmer leads Sunak by 23%.

    Who do British voters think would be the better PM for the UK? (28 June - 2 July)

    Keir Starmer 48% (-1)
    Rishi Sunak 25% (–)

    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1808178822191501465

    Something has gone wrong with the polling. This implies Starmer has had a very good campaign.

    Well. Sitting PM's usually win these polls. Maybe folk are already used to the result, regardless of how they intend to vote?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,194
    I do like the prediction of the last constituency being declared by around 6.30am. I really like the idea that normal people will wake up and every single race will be declared and final result known.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,278

    NYT - Giuliani Disbarred From the Practice of Law in New York

    What a fall from grace for a once successful Mayor. If he had any sense the next time he sees Trump he should shoot him (dead zone analysis again).
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,630

    DougSeal said:

    Redfield Baxtered

    LAB 468 (41%)
    CON 69 (22%)
    LIB DEM 67 (10%)
    REFUK 6 (16%)
    GREEN 3 (6%)
    SNP 15

    Labour Majority 286

    Lib Dems to finish 2nd in seats without Labour has drifted out to 7.6 and I really like it on these poll showings. Seems like it really doesn’t need a huge amount to line up to come off, even if it looks slightly less likely than when the Tories were polling in the teens
    The importance of the Opposition in the system of parliamentary government has long received practical recognition in the procedure of Parliament. In 1937 statutory recognition was accorded through the grant of a salary to the Leader of the Opposition. The prevalence (on the whole) of the two-party system has usually obviated any uncertainty as to which party has the right to be called the ‘Official Opposition’: it is the largest minority party which is prepared, in the event of the resignation of the government, to assume office [and in a footnote: The Speaker’s decision on the identity of the Leader of the Opposition is final (Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 (c27) s2 (2)).

    - Erskine May, Parliamentary Practice, 23rd edition, pp247-48

    If we ended up with the above results the Greens and LDs should state to the Speaker that they're prepared to form a coalition minority administration should the Government resign. That would give him a headache.
    Do the Greens and LDs have much in common at the moment? Both are imo certainly closer to Labour than they are each other.
    Apart from a lust for power?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,420

    Carnyx said:

    Penddu2 said:

    My favourite prediction so far....

    ITV Wales poll saying that Tories will get -4.7% in Rhondda (that is minus 4.7%)

    If only......

    My favourite is the fact the pompously named party of Wales is fourth. How embarrassing for the nationalists.
    The idea that they are not named for Wales would surprise Welsh Labour and the Welsh Conservative Party.
    They call themselves "The" party of Wales. Hench the pomposity accusation.
    Sure, but so do The Welsh Conservative Party.

    And wouldn't some folk complain more about Party of Wales without the article?

    Anyway, dinner cooking calls.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,165

    DougSeal said:

    Redfield Baxtered

    LAB 468 (41%)
    CON 69 (22%)
    LIB DEM 67 (10%)
    REFUK 6 (16%)
    GREEN 3 (6%)
    SNP 15

    Labour Majority 286

    Lib Dems to finish 2nd in seats without Labour has drifted out to 7.6 and I really like it on these poll showings. Seems like it really doesn’t need a huge amount to line up to come off, even if it looks slightly less likely than when the Tories were polling in the teens
    The importance of the Opposition in the system of parliamentary government has long received practical recognition in the procedure of Parliament. In 1937 statutory recognition was accorded through the grant of a salary to the Leader of the Opposition. The prevalence (on the whole) of the two-party system has usually obviated any uncertainty as to which party has the right to be called the ‘Official Opposition’: it is the largest minority party which is prepared, in the event of the resignation of the government, to assume office [and in a footnote: The Speaker’s decision on the identity of the Leader of the Opposition is final (Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 (c27) s2 (2)).

    - Erskine May, Parliamentary Practice, 23rd edition, pp247-48

    If we ended up with the above results the Greens and LDs should state to the Speaker that they're prepared to form a coalition minority administration should the Government resign. That would give him a headache.
    Do the Greens and LDs have much in common at the moment? Both are imo certainly closer to Labour than they are each other.
    Apart from a lust for power?
    That was where I was coming from. But, in truth, they hate each other. One of those rhetorical things but file under "not happening".
  • Options
    bobbob said:

    Starmer leads Sunak by 23%.

    Who do British voters think would be the better PM for the UK? (28 June - 2 July)

    Keir Starmer 48% (-1)
    Rishi Sunak 25% (–)

    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1808178822191501465

    Something has gone wrong with the polling. This implies Starmer has had a very good campaign.

    Most people prefer chlamydia to syphilis too and that’s not because chlamydia has good PR
    I thought Chlamydia Syphillis was a Grauniad Columnist?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,020
    Probably 90% of Democrats.

    My first — and probably only — comment on the Democrat’s candidate for POTUS:

    If the party and the Biden family decide that Biden bowing out gives Dems the best chance to win in November, I (agree/)disagree, but I’ll support the nominee and fight like hell to get them elected, and you should too.

    If Biden stays in, I’ll support the nominee and fight like hell to get them elected, and you should too.

    Nothing changes for me. This election is too important to lose.

    You could put a department store mannequin in a suit and superglue it to a podium and I would vote for that over Trump 100 times out of 100.

    https://x.com/Angry_Staffer/status/1808190492922073251

    But it’s the votes at the margin that are the concern.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,278
    Penddu2 said:

    My favourite prediction so far....

    ITV Wales poll saying that Tories will get -4.7% in Rhondda (that is minus 4.7%)

    If only......

    That would certainly improve the efficiency of their vote elsewhere.
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    TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 699
    nova said:

    fitalass said:

    Sandpit said:

    Did Sadiq Khan really announce today, 48 hours before the Parliementary elections, that he was going to start charging (in money) electric cars to come into London?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/02/sadiq-khan-impose-congestion-charge-electric-cars-london/

    I have just seen this news, a real sign of hubris just over 48 hours before polling booths close, can't imagine that will go down well in some areas.
    Have they actually "announced" it?

    Reading the article, it's not clear at all, and certainly doesn't sound like any kind of actual announcement.
    The telegraph wants to make your flesh creep. If you read the article this plan was announced in 2018. It was "confirmed" this week as In the telegraph rang up and said Is this still the plan and got the answer yes it is. That's the peg the story is hung on.

    Seems reasonable to me, EVs are no less congesting than anyone else
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    kle4 said:

    I do like the prediction of the last constituency being declared by around 6.30am. I really like the idea that normal people will wake up and every single race will be declared and final result known.

    Even in Norn Ireland?

    Seems that Count Early, Count Often is the order of the day.
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    DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 424
    Where's this survation poll. I need to go swimming and I'm just sitting here refereshing twitter.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,630
    Scott_xP said:

    @TomHCalver
    One of the many perks of running a data journalism team is that you can run sweepstakes with lots of very smart people.

    Here are the average @thetimes data team seat predictions for Thursday (n=11)

    🔵 Con 96
    🔴 Lab 446
    🟢 Green 4
    🟡 SNP 16
    🟠 Lib Dem 63
    🟣 Reform 5

    https://x.com/TomHCalver/status/1808089365597270031

    Tell you what it would be a real laugh if that was the actual result and a sweepstake beat all the polls :)
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    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,310
    kjh said:

    DougSeal said:

    Redfield Baxtered

    LAB 468 (41%)
    CON 69 (22%)
    LIB DEM 67 (10%)
    REFUK 6 (16%)
    GREEN 3 (6%)
    SNP 15

    Labour Majority 286

    Lib Dems to finish 2nd in seats without Labour has drifted out to 7.6 and I really like it on these poll showings. Seems like it really doesn’t need a huge amount to line up to come off, even if it looks slightly less likely than when the Tories were polling in the teens
    The importance of the Opposition in the system of parliamentary government has long received practical recognition in the procedure of Parliament. In 1937 statutory recognition was accorded through the grant of a salary to the Leader of the Opposition. The prevalence (on the whole) of the two-party system has usually obviated any uncertainty as to which party has the right to be called the ‘Official Opposition’: it is the largest minority party which is prepared, in the event of the resignation of the government, to assume office [and in a footnote: The Speaker’s decision on the identity of the Leader of the Opposition is final (Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 (c27) s2 (2)).

    - Erskine May, Parliamentary Practice, 23rd edition, pp247-48

    If we ended up with the above results the Greens and LDs should state to the Speaker that they're prepared to form a coalition minority administration should the Government resign. That would give him a headache.
    I'm sure under those circumstances the Alliance would take the LD whip. They already do in the HofL and presumably don't in the HofC because there is no benefit in doing so. A result like that suddenly becomes a huge benefit to do so. Many members of the Alliance are also LD members.
    I believe that John Alderdice taking the LD whip in the Lords was a personal decision, not a party one.

    I'm not so sure that they'd be happy to take the whip in the HoC - what would they get out of it? They'd want to be very sure risk that they wouldn't hurt one or more parts of their support base in NI.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,463

    Starmer leads Sunak by 23%.

    Who do British voters think would be the better PM for the UK? (28 June - 2 July)

    Keir Starmer 48% (-1)
    Rishi Sunak 25% (–)

    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1808178822191501465

    Something has gone wrong with the polling. This implies Starmer has had a very good campaign.

    Starmer: 48%
    Not-Starmer: 52%

    It's Brexit all over again.
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    TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 699

    I committed one ballot paper/polling card balls up

    The actor and the archaeologist live next door to each other. Both have similar looking doors, and no numbers. Which is really helpful

    I had mail for every house on that street except, it turned out, for the actor, and I accidentally delivered the archaeologist's mail to the actor's house

    I realised what I'd done as I reached the archaeologist's door, and dashed back to actor's door. Furious knocking yielded no reply, so I tried the same on the archaeologist with the same result

    I knew it was no big deal really, they know each other and would obviously pass the mail on, but I was really angry with myself for messing up one of the few actually important things we have to do

    I remember this happened on a Saturday, because the next morning on my walk to work I saw the actor on his way home with a pile of Sunday papers

    I apologised profusely for delivering the wrong mail to him

    He apologised to me for not answering the door, he was learning lines. He assured me that he'd immediately posted the mail to the archaeologist, and he thanked me for reminding him that he needed to register to vote

    I delivered his polling card on the Wednesday

    If he is any good at his job he would have dug out the card before polling day. Especially if prompted by the actor.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,463
    Based on candidates withdrawing before the second round in France, the number of three-way contests has been reduced from 306 to 95, with the final list of confirmed candidates due to be published tomorrow.

    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/07/02/french-elections-how-many-candidates-have-withdrawn-from-the-second-round_6676407_8.html
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,841
    @SophyRidgeSky

    Two days before the election he called - this is the PM’s message - even Rishi Sunak is conceding Labour is on course to win

    @RishiSunak

    Stop the supermajority. Vote Conservative on 4th July.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,194

    Based on candidates withdrawing before the second round in France, the number of three-way contests has been reduced from 306 to 95, with the final list of confirmed candidates due to be published tomorrow.

    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/07/02/french-elections-how-many-candidates-have-withdrawn-from-the-second-round_6676407_8.html

    I was astonished at the number of three way contests compared to previous elections as reported by the BBC.

    A total of 307 seats could be fought in triangulaires - a huge increase from eight in 2022 and just one in 2017.

    Even now much reduced that's a remarkable increase.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,754

    ..

    WELSH KLAXON
    Welsh Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 40% (-5)
    RFM: 16% (+3)
    CON: 16% (-2)
    PLC: 14% (+2)
    LDM: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 5% (+1)

    Via @YouGov, 27 Jun - 1 Jul.
    Changes w/ 30 May - 3 Jun.

    Is that a stand alone poll or a sub sample?
    A xenomorph may be involved.
    Is this another bug hunt?
    Secure that shit, Hudson!
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,062
    GIN1138 said:

    Right, we wait for Survations final MRP... Think I'll have a Hob Nob :D

    Been watching the tennis. Has this appeared yet?
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    PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 577
    We truly are waiting for survation
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    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,439
    Now summer holidays have started I'm being asked to work loads of days off and doing a lot of overtime

    I'm hoping to save enough over the next couple of months so that I can go away again at the end of September and beginning of October, but I can't decide where to go next

    I've got two options in mind currently: Lisbon to Santiago, or Bayonne to Vannes

    Next Spring I've already decided to walk from Biarritz to Montpellier, via Saint Jean Pied de Port, Lourdes and Perpignan. This walk will join my walk to Perpignan two years ago with this year's Camino

    It would also join all my walks together, including last year's Tro Breizh (tour de Bretagne), if I do Bayonne to Vannes this year

    Or I go to Lisbon this year, and join them all together next Autumn..

    Hmm
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,468
    Sir Geoffrey Boycott has been diagnosed with throat cancer for the second time and is to undergo surgery to treat the illness.

    Boycott, the former England batsman, was told last week that the cancer had returned more than 20 years after he was treated for the illness with a combination of chemotherapy and radiotherapy.

    “In the last few weeks I have had an MRI Scan, CT Scan, a PET Scan and two biopsies and it has now been confirmed I have throat cancer and will require an operation,” he told Telegraph Sport.

    “From past experience I realise that to overcome cancer a second time I will need excellent medical treatment and quite a bit of luck and even if the operation is successful every cancer patient knows they have to live with the possibility of it returning. So I will just get on with it and hope for the best.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2024/07/02/sir-geoffrey-boycott-cancer-diagnosis-england-yorkshire/
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,807
    kle4 said:

    I do like the prediction of the last constituency being declared by around 6.30am. I really like the idea that normal people will wake up and every single race will be declared and final result known.

    Not sure that will be the case. In the North East of Scotland, the last declaration in 2019 was around 5.30. However I think the Highlands, Western Islands, O&S and St Ives were not done until later. It was a 67% Turnout, so with a lower turnout, it might be a bit quicker,

    However it is potential recounts that will really slow the process, I could see the last result being late morning this time.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,898
    Cicero said:

    kle4 said:

    I do like the prediction of the last constituency being declared by around 6.30am. I really like the idea that normal people will wake up and every single race will be declared and final result known.

    Not sure that will be the case. In the North East of Scotland, the last declaration in 2019 was around 5.30. However I think the Highlands, Western Islands, O&S and St Ives were not done until later. It was a 67% Turnout, so with a lower turnout, it might be a bit quicker,

    However it is potential recounts that will really slow the process, I could see the last result being late morning this time.
    Yeah there's the island votes in Argyll etc to boat over, like the Scillies in Cornwall, last ones will be during the morning
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,062
    I see Survation’s not out yet. Right. Across to the men’s TdF highlights on ITV4 - an exciting day in the Alps - then back to the tennis for Surrey boy Jack Draper which I’ve got on pause.

    Election, what election?
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,263

    DougSeal said:

    Redfield Baxtered

    LAB 468 (41%)
    CON 69 (22%)
    LIB DEM 67 (10%)
    REFUK 6 (16%)
    GREEN 3 (6%)
    SNP 15

    Labour Majority 286

    Lib Dems to finish 2nd in seats without Labour has drifted out to 7.6 and I really like it on these poll showings. Seems like it really doesn’t need a huge amount to line up to come off, even if it looks slightly less likely than when the Tories were polling in the teens
    The importance of the Opposition in the system of parliamentary government has long received practical recognition in the procedure of Parliament. In 1937 statutory recognition was accorded through the grant of a salary to the Leader of the Opposition. The prevalence (on the whole) of the two-party system has usually obviated any uncertainty as to which party has the right to be called the ‘Official Opposition’: it is the largest minority party which is prepared, in the event of the resignation of the government, to assume office [and in a footnote: The Speaker’s decision on the identity of the Leader of the Opposition is final (Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 (c27) s2 (2)).

    - Erskine May, Parliamentary Practice, 23rd edition, pp247-48

    If we ended up with the above results the Greens and LDs should state to the Speaker that they're prepared to form a coalition minority administration should the Government resign. That would give him a headache.
    Do the Greens and LDs have much in common at the moment? Both are imo certainly closer to Labour than they are each other.
    Apart from a lust for power?
    I am one of the people reading the runes and feeling that there is going to be a LD overdelivery on Thursday. But even the biggest of overperformances only gets us to the official opposition. Its not quite what I would describe as "power"

    What we have in common with the Greens is that we're a destination for people who want to punish the Tories. And why not - otherwise we'd be on for a Labour majority of 250. In which case the official opposition will be non-payroll Labour MPs...
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,460
    edited July 2
    Survation.
    @Survation
    NEW MRP: Labour 99% Certain To Win More Seats Than in 1997

    Labour on Course to Win 484 seats.

    The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats are in a close race to form the official opposition.

    Probabilistic seat count:
    LAB 484
    CON 64
    LD 61
    SNP 10
    RFM 7
    PC 3
    GRN 3

    34,558 interviews conducted online and on the telephone
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,165
    @Survation
    NEW MRP: Labour 99% Certain To Win More Seats Than in 1997

    Labour on Course to Win 484 seats.

    The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats are in a close race to form the official opposition.

    Probabilistic seat count:
    LAB 484
    CON 64
    LD 61
    SNP 10
    RFM 7
    PC 3
    GRN 3

    34,558 interviews conducted online and on the telephone
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,020

    Sir Geoffrey Boycott has been diagnosed with throat cancer for the second time and is to undergo surgery to treat the illness.

    Boycott, the former England batsman, was told last week that the cancer had returned more than 20 years after he was treated for the illness with a combination of chemotherapy and radiotherapy.

    “In the last few weeks I have had an MRI Scan, CT Scan, a PET Scan and two biopsies and it has now been confirmed I have throat cancer and will require an operation,” he told Telegraph Sport.

    “From past experience I realise that to overcome cancer a second time I will need excellent medical treatment and quite a bit of luck and even if the operation is successful every cancer patient knows they have to live with the possibility of it returning. So I will just get on with it and hope for the best.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2024/07/02/sir-geoffrey-boycott-cancer-diagnosis-england-yorkshire/

    Good luck to him.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,278

    Sir Geoffrey Boycott has been diagnosed with throat cancer for the second time and is to undergo surgery to treat the illness.

    Boycott, the former England batsman, was told last week that the cancer had returned more than 20 years after he was treated for the illness with a combination of chemotherapy and radiotherapy.

    “In the last few weeks I have had an MRI Scan, CT Scan, a PET Scan and two biopsies and it has now been confirmed I have throat cancer and will require an operation,” he told Telegraph Sport.

    “From past experience I realise that to overcome cancer a second time I will need excellent medical treatment and quite a bit of luck and even if the operation is successful every cancer patient knows they have to live with the possibility of it returning. So I will just get on with it and hope for the best.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2024/07/02/sir-geoffrey-boycott-cancer-diagnosis-england-yorkshire/

    If there was ever anybody who was going to stick around at the crease.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,165
    GIN1138 said:


    Survation.
    @Survation
    NEW MRP: Labour 99% Certain To Win More Seats Than in 1997

    Labour on Course to Win 484 seats.

    The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats are in a close race to form the official opposition.

    Probabilistic seat count:
    LAB 484
    CON 64
    LD 61
    SNP 10
    RFM 7
    PC 3
    GRN 3

    34,558 interviews conducted online and on the telephone

    Ah, fuck, ya beat me to it
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,800

    Cicero said:

    kle4 said:

    I do like the prediction of the last constituency being declared by around 6.30am. I really like the idea that normal people will wake up and every single race will be declared and final result known.

    Not sure that will be the case. In the North East of Scotland, the last declaration in 2019 was around 5.30. However I think the Highlands, Western Islands, O&S and St Ives were not done until later. It was a 67% Turnout, so with a lower turnout, it might be a bit quicker,

    However it is potential recounts that will really slow the process, I could see the last result being late morning this time.
    Yeah there's the island votes in Argyll etc to boat over, like the Scillies in Cornwall, last ones will be during the morning
    They've lucked out with Lindisfarne this year. A safe crossing window till 00:45 on the Friday.
    Means ballots boxes won't have to stay with two police officers overnight.

    https://holyislandcrossingtimes.northumberland.gov.uk/
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,278
    DougSeal said:

    @Survation
    NEW MRP: Labour 99% Certain To Win More Seats Than in 1997

    Labour on Course to Win 484 seats.

    The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats are in a close race to form the official opposition.

    Probabilistic seat count:
    LAB 484
    CON 64
    LD 61
    SNP 10
    RFM 7
    PC 3
    GRN 3

    34,558 interviews conducted online and on the telephone

    Oh jeepers. Reform on 7? That’s a disaster
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,194
    dixiedean said:

    Cicero said:

    kle4 said:

    I do like the prediction of the last constituency being declared by around 6.30am. I really like the idea that normal people will wake up and every single race will be declared and final result known.

    Not sure that will be the case. In the North East of Scotland, the last declaration in 2019 was around 5.30. However I think the Highlands, Western Islands, O&S and St Ives were not done until later. It was a 67% Turnout, so with a lower turnout, it might be a bit quicker,

    However it is potential recounts that will really slow the process, I could see the last result being late morning this time.
    Yeah there's the island votes in Argyll etc to boat over, like the Scillies in Cornwall, last ones will be during the morning
    They've lucked out with Lindisfarne this year. A safe crossing window till 00:45 on the Friday.
    Means ballots boxes won't have to stay with two police officers overnight.

    https://holyislandcrossingtimes.northumberland.gov.uk/
    Now that's the kind of go getter attitude I want from election officials.
This discussion has been closed.