Vanilla - the only thing in the known universe more useless than the Department for Education.
I disagree. The Perl programming language would give it a run for its money. The only "write once, never edit" language known.
Perl was write once, make sure it works and then never ever go near it again.
I remember a Perl expert writing what should have been a 200 line script in a single completely and utterly unreadable line, assembler was easier to read and follow...
You think that's bad? I once had to port over a major codebase - on my own - from a third party company. Lots of the 'code' was written in the C preprocessor. A header file of a few lines became hundreds of K of preprocessor output.
Try finding a bug in that. If you ever thought Macromedia Flash was an awful buggy hellhole, I'd like to introduce you to the Macromedia Shockwave sourcecode.
(Weeps gently in the background)
PB.com Programmers Bragging
Not really bragging... in need of counselling.
From memory (and it was thankfully over 25 years ago...) version 4 had MIN and MAX macros. Which returned true if the given was larger or smaller, as you would expect.
In V5, the MIN and MAX macro operands had been reversed; as had all the places the macros were used.
In V6, they were back to how they were in V4.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is Quality Coding...
I know, I couldn't think of a better B than bragging (didn't feel like BS was appropriate).
Anyway, as an 80s Cobol programmer who moved on to design and project management by 1990, I am somewhat in awe of you guys with your C, you Perl and your Smalltalk war-wounds.
Still at least I learnt to spell 'environment' properly - Cobol had that going for it at least.
Sunak has no other card to play than this. ELE is here. So he is coming out of the blocks swinging, saying literally anything he thinks may resonate. Anything. However absurd the point or how ranty the tone.
Incidentally, this debate is exactly the thing responsible for the drop in both Labour and Tory poll ratings. I have been told by so many people that they utterly hate the spectacle to two people petulantly arguing with each other and not answering the question...
Is Sunak able to make any argument other than "DO NOT SURRENDER, RIGHT, YOUR TAXES, RIGHT, TO LABOUR, RIGHT?"
It would actually be interesting to have a debate on how to solve local government funding. Literally no proposals about a long-term solution, e.g. to business rates.
Sunak has no other card to play than this. ELE is here. So he is coming out of the blocks swinging, saying literally anything he thinks may resonate. Anything. However absurd the point or how ranty the tone.
Whatever the question:
TAX! TAX! TAX!
Though under Sunaks plans taxes are going up as a percentage of GDP for the next 4 years.
Both party's are not being straight on tax, and anyone with a brain knows it.
Sunak has no other card to play than this. ELE is here. So he is coming out of the blocks swinging, saying literally anything he thinks may resonate. Anything. However absurd the point or how ranty the tone.
Whatever the question:
TAX! TAX! TAX!
Though under Sunaks plans taxes are going up as a percentage of GDP for the next 4 years.
Both party's are not being straight on tax, and anyone with a brain knows it.
Absolutely. They believe we are all morons. We are not.
Labour run Nottingham City Council is on the verge of bankruptcy what will you do to reverse Councils going bankrupt
SKS Sweet FA Sunak same as SKS
What an intellectually bankrupt GE we are having with these 2 Parties
Why should taxpayers in the country bail out councils, whatever their politics, who have gone bankrupt through their own ineptitude. Fuck them. The council tax payers voted them in, they can live with the consequences of that.
Incidentally, this debate is exactly the thing responsible for the drop in both Labour and Tory poll ratings. I have been told by so many people that they utterly hate the spectacle to two people petulantly arguing with each other and not answering the question...
I agree with that. Define the policies and answer the questions.
Labour run Nottingham City Council is on the verge of bankruptcy what will you do to reverse Councils going bankrupt
SKS Sweet FA Sunak same as SKS
What an intellectually bankrupt GE we are having with these 2 Parties
Why not a consortium of Derby, Leicester and Sheffield to take it over and replace it with Derby East, Leicester North and Sheffield South? Nobody would miss it!
Vanilla - the only thing in the known universe more useless than the Department for Education.
I disagree. The Perl programming language would give it a run for its money. The only "write once, never edit" language known.
Perl was write once, make sure it works and then never ever go near it again.
I remember a Perl expert writing what should have been a 200 line script in a single completely and utterly unreadable line, assembler was easier to read and follow...
It was a thing amongst Perl programmers. They took a perverse delight in writing unreadable code.
Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook.
is valid code in the ook language just saying
You gone librarian poo?
The important bit is that while you trust Zathras code., You should never trust Zathras code. And as for *Zathras* code..... don't even go there.
I still have the T shirt with unlimited key length RSA in Perl as a bar code. Which technically makes it software and in turn makes it a munition in various countries.
OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.
Two scenarios: 1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again 2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong
Or maybe it's just British politeness. Tory canvassers in 1997 said people were nicer to them than in 1992, but it was because they'd already given up on them, not because they were going to vote for them.
Just objectively, this is an excellent debate performance by Rishi Sunak.
Excellent in the sense that Trump is an excellent debater. I find the way he’s been allowed to talk over Starmer and avoid any questions from the moderator disgusting but I’m not naive enough to think that it’s not working this evening.
Labour run Nottingham City Council is on the verge of bankruptcy what will you do to reverse Councils going bankrupt
SKS Sweet FA Sunak same as SKS
What an intellectually bankrupt GE we are having with these 2 Parties
Why should taxpayers in the country bail out councils, whatever their politics, who have gone bankrupt through their own ineptitude. Fuck them. The council tax payers voted them in, they can live with the consequences of that.
Well with current National Policies towards LG the majority of Councils including the well run ones will be bankrupt. Not all Councils are inept but even the best ones cant cope with additional cuts after 14 yrs of the same.
Vanilla - the only thing in the known universe more useless than the Department for Education.
I disagree. The Perl programming language would give it a run for its money. The only "write once, never edit" language known.
Perl was write once, make sure it works and then never ever go near it again.
I remember a Perl expert writing what should have been a 200 line script in a single completely and utterly unreadable line, assembler was easier to read and follow...
You think that's bad? I once had to port over a major codebase - on my own - from a third party company. Lots of the 'code' was written in the C preprocessor. A header file of a few lines became hundreds of K of preprocessor output.
Try finding a bug in that. If you ever thought Macromedia Flash was an awful buggy hellhole, I'd like to introduce you to the Macromedia Shockwave sourcecode.
(Weeps gently in the background)
PB.com Programmers Bragging
Not really bragging... in need of counselling.
From memory (and it was thankfully over 25 years ago...) version 4 had MIN and MAX macros. Which returned true if the given was larger or smaller, as you would expect.
In V5, the MIN and MAX macro operands had been reversed; as had all the places the macros were used.
In V6, they were back to how they were in V4.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is Quality Coding...
I know, I couldn't think of a better B than bragging (didn't feel like BS was appropriate).
Anyway, as an 80s Cobol programmer who moved on to design and project management by 1990, I am somewhat in awe of you guys with your C, you Perl and your Smalltalk war-wounds.
Still at least I learnt to spell 'environment' properly - Cobol had that going for it at least.
Ah.... COBOL. I coded in it for 2 years. I actually liked it.
Although I moved on from C, its influence is everywhere and I have stayed within the "C" family of languages with Java, Javascript, PHP and the like.
Vanilla - the only thing in the known universe more useless than the Department for Education.
I disagree. The Perl programming language would give it a run for its money. The only "write once, never edit" language known.
Perl was write once, make sure it works and then never ever go near it again.
I remember a Perl expert writing what should have been a 200 line script in a single completely and utterly unreadable line, assembler was easier to read and follow...
You think that's bad? I once had to port over a major codebase - on my own - from a third party company. Lots of the 'code' was written in the C preprocessor. A header file of a few lines became hundreds of K of preprocessor output.
Try finding a bug in that. If you ever thought Macromedia Flash was an awful buggy hellhole, I'd like to introduce you to the Macromedia Shockwave sourcecode.
(Weeps gently in the background)
PB.com Programmers Bragging
Not really bragging... in need of counselling.
From memory (and it was thankfully over 25 years ago...) version 4 had MIN and MAX macros. Which returned true if the given was larger or smaller, as you would expect.
In V5, the MIN and MAX macro operands had been reversed; as had all the places the macros were used.
In V6, they were back to how they were in V4.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is Quality Coding...
What about
#define FOUR 5
That sort of thing triggers so many mental hiccups when reading code
Now you've triggered my operator overloading PTSD.
OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.
Two scenarios: 1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again 2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong
1) seems more likely.
I agree given that we’ve had a gender question, someone who thinks Rishi Sunak did a good job as chancellor and someone who asked why we can’t just close our borders.
Labour run Nottingham City Council is on the verge of bankruptcy what will you do to reverse Councils going bankrupt
SKS Sweet FA Sunak same as SKS
What an intellectually bankrupt GE we are having with these 2 Parties
Why should taxpayers in the country bail out councils, whatever their politics, who have gone bankrupt through their own ineptitude. Fuck them. The council tax payers voted them in, they can live with the consequences of that.
Well with current National Policies towards LG the majority of Councils including the well run ones will be bankrupt. Not all Councils are inept but even the best ones cant cope with additional cuts after 14 yrs of the same.
No, but Nottingham was mentioned and they are.
Inept councils like Nottingham and Brum should not be bailed out. The voters can pay for their choices. But that doesn’t mean councils shouldn’t get more money as a whole.
Yes, a replacement for Putin may be 'worse' for Ukraine and the west than Putin. He may be more competent, more liable to press the big red button, whatever.
That's a concern. Or a replacement might be 'better' for us; one more willing to work with us, to turn Russia back into a civilised nation.
Russia's in a pickle. Any new leader would be insecure at first, and will want to secure his position. He could do this by continuing Putin's agenda and winning in Ukraine (difficult), or he could do this by ending the war however he can.
And my point is this: Putin has painted himself into a corner. He has said a load of shite to the Russian public, and although he can do minor changes, any major ones - like a retreat from Ukraine - would mean the end of his premiership and, by extension, his life.
An successor may well have more latitude to find an accommodation with Ukraine that Putin could not. He would be, to a certain extent, a fresh sheet. Even if he is also a fresh shit as well.
My view, having previously lived in Russia and worked with Russians for many years, is that Russia as a society is totally poisoned by nationalism, imperialism and victim complex, and won't get out of this short of a postwar-Germany-style transformation of how the country thinks. Even a light interrogation of the most liberal Muscovite will result in 'yeah but NATO yeah but America took our credit for WWII' after a bit. With this in mind, a new leader would change precisely bollock
I think the ww2 point is a legitimate one. The russians did much of the heavy lifting during ww2 with deccisive battles at Stalingrad and Kursk and certainly dont get the credit for it in the west.
Stalingrad and Kursk are on the History Channel all the time.
What irks certain Russians is that the propaganda versions get dissected.
Ask the average Brit about the battle of Stalingrad you will get a blank stare "But its us that won the war we stood alone against the germans mate"
The Soviets were on the Nazi side in 39-41 of course.
Starmer saying he’ll return Bangladeshis to Bangladesh! How can this man claim to be Labour? How can he represent a diverse, inclusive, progressive constituency like Holborn & St. Pancras?"
According to the MRP for the mirror today my constituency of North Cotswolds is going Reform
My sympathies.
About 70% of the punters in the pub are debating Reform.
It will go one way or the other, surge in reform and they will take it, or when it comes to ballot day its fizzles to nothing and they are nowhere near.
OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.
Two scenarios: 1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again 2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong
Yes.the 50 seat for the Tories argument is wearing thin now.150 seats will be better than nothing.
Can you clarify that - not sure if you're arguing that 50 seats is a daft argument or not.
The polls seem pretty clear that 50 is now trending more often than 150. I believe there are a big chunk of voters still unclear how they will vote, so ultimately is a question of do they break to deliver ELE, or do they think "lets give the Tories another go"
And we just don't know. But the more polls we get, the more people answer, the more they slide towards ELE.
Starmer saying he’ll return Bangladeshis to Bangladesh! How can this man claim to be Labour? How can he represent a diverse, inclusive, progressive constituency like Holborn & St. Pancras?"
Vanilla - the only thing in the known universe more useless than the Department for Education.
I disagree. The Perl programming language would give it a run for its money. The only "write once, never edit" language known.
Perl was write once, make sure it works and then never ever go near it again.
I remember a Perl expert writing what should have been a 200 line script in a single completely and utterly unreadable line, assembler was easier to read and follow...
You think that's bad? I once had to port over a major codebase - on my own - from a third party company. Lots of the 'code' was written in the C preprocessor. A header file of a few lines became hundreds of K of preprocessor output.
Try finding a bug in that. If you ever thought Macromedia Flash was an awful buggy hellhole, I'd like to introduce you to the Macromedia Shockwave sourcecode.
(Weeps gently in the background)
PB.com Programmers Bragging
Not really bragging... in need of counselling.
From memory (and it was thankfully over 25 years ago...) version 4 had MIN and MAX macros. Which returned true if the given was larger or smaller, as you would expect.
In V5, the MIN and MAX macro operands had been reversed; as had all the places the macros were used.
In V6, they were back to how they were in V4.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is Quality Coding...
What about
#define FOUR 5
That sort of thing triggers so many mental hiccups when reading code
Now you've triggered my operator overloading PTSD.
You don't have to be a Putin fan to accept that no one is going to evict him from the six counties oblasts (five in Ukraine plus Transdinistra) any time soon and an armistice with partition, then support to make it stick a la South Korea is better than continuing the slaughter and risking it escalating further, and being of the view that interfering in other countries affairs on sanctimonious moral grounds often disguising vested interests (Ukraine 2014, Libya 2011, Iraq 2003, Afghanistan 2003-2022, Iran 1953 ends up causing far worse problems than the ones they were intended to resolve.
Remember: invading is usually the easy part.
And it's the occupation that usually kills you.
Those Oblasts will be a constant resource drain on the Russian economy, in terms of men and material, and they will produce bugger all tax revenue.
And all the time, Russia will grow economically weaker. It is utterly dependent on energy exports, and it has completely fucked itself.
And it is hard to consider but Putin will die. He might be like my dad and think he won't, but he will. And the world will be a better place.
You are joking?
Whoever replaces Putin will be far worse (if we are lucky he might be less skilled at the art of politics (unless less skilled in the Kaiser Bill sense).
One reason Putin went in in 2022 was becsause it was a domestic issue big enough that he might have been vulnerable to hardliners if he didn't.
And so we get closer to house in the Russia talking points bingo. “Whoever succeeds Putin will be worse!” Tell that to Ukrainians being subjected to all out war and the attempted obliteration of their country and culture.
Seriously, that is straight from the textbook. And if you follow the history of deposed or naturally dying tyrants, most of the time it’s bogus.
You can presumably point to some solid indications that if Putin falls, he will be replaced by a nice, moderate pro-Westerner? Or perhaps some case studies of other nasty dictators that the West has toppled recently leading to the establishment of a nice, pro-Western peace-loving democracy? Or do people just keep saying it because it's not a bad best guess?
That’s Russia’s business, not Tim’s. Which was his point, if you didn’t get it.
If we end up with Libya, except with nukes, that's everyone's business - that is everyone sane's point, in case you're struggling.
Or 1930s Germany with Nukes.
That's effectively what we have now you pillock. Putin's already tried his version of annexing the Sudatenland, only with more violence.
No we don't. Putin is Ruthless, patient, Cold and Calculating. Hitler was a nutter liable to make crazy decisions in a fit of rage if crossed.
Hitler would probably have nuked Kiev after the Kerch Bridge was attacked.
Putin is a nutter too, who believes his own garbage and spin.
A calculating leader would never have made such a horrendous mistake as to invade Ukraine.
All long term leaders suffer from too many people feeding them bullshit because they think that is what they want to hear.
In Russia, Ukrainan control of Crimea and Donbass (and the coast to Odesa and Kharkiv is seen by many in the same light as Alsace-Lorraine was with France from 1870 to 1918, a historic monumental wrong crying out to heaven for venegance.
Putin never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. He has by his actions created a Ukranian nationalist consciousness in places that never had it before, and earned the permanent opposition of Russian speaking Ukranians.
In very much the same way that British actions over the 1916 Easter rising and the Black and Tans created Nationalist Ireland.
But doubled down in the six Oblasts Counties.
Its going to end up with Ulster type partition.
And yes just as much strong feelings on both sides of that partition.
Thats just reality.
It's hard to tell, for obvious reasons, but I doubt that pro-Russian sentiment in Russian-occupied Ukraine is as strong as pro-British sentiment in Northern Ireland.
Crimea 100% certain pro russian. Think county Down or Antrim if the inhabitants of West Belfast had been sent packing at partition
Donetsk/Luhansk - Londonderry/Armagh - except the Russians don't control the "Bogside" and "South Armagh"
The halves of Zaporizhzhia (without) and Kherson (wjthout) they have. Think Tyrone and Fermanagh. Majority "Republican" but hung on to make the place viable (and land bridge to Crimea).
Maybe they are now. Because most of the Ukrainian population left during the 10 years of war in the Donbas. The war started by covert and not so covert Russian agents.
There are not parallels between Putin’s power/land/money grab in Ukraine and what happened in Ireland.
I find your take on this deeply objectionable.
At most the Ukranian population of Crimea was 20% in 2013. Much the same as Antrim and Down Catholic population in 1918.
The Russian plantation of then place had been generations before, just like the plantations in Ulster.
Unlike Ireland though it wasn't Ukranians evicted by the Russian plantations but Tatars.
Keir is so slick - I imagine it’s from being a top barrister. It’s like watching a male version of “The good wife” in a particularly amazing court scene.
Comments
Or accountant caught in the headlights as his tax scheme falls apart.
Anyway, as an 80s Cobol programmer who moved on to design and project management by 1990, I am somewhat in awe of you guys with your C, you Perl and your Smalltalk war-wounds.
Still at least I learnt to spell 'environment' properly - Cobol had that going for it at least.
TAX! TAX! TAX!
SKS Sweet FA
Sunak same as SKS
What an intellectually bankrupt GE we are having with these 2 Parties
Mishal Husain wins applause for pointing out to Starmer: "You know what it's like to fall in behind a leader of a party"
https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/1806053807735849155
No surrender to the SKS
Both party's are not being straight on tax, and anyone with a brain knows it.
Sunak - i am turning stuff round trust my plan don't surrender to SKS Labour
SKS I worked in Northern Ireland and the CPS
Questioners point proven
Two scenarios:
1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong
“Sorry, but we’re what you’ve got”
I still have the T shirt with unlimited key length RSA in Perl as a bar code. Which technically makes it software and in turn makes it a munition in various countries.
Not all Councils are inept but even the best ones cant cope with additional cuts after 14 yrs of the same.
Although I moved on from C, its influence is everywhere and I have stayed within the "C" family of languages with Java, Javascript, PHP and the like.
He’s not. It just doesn’t work. He’s got 14 years of Tory governance to defend, and he can’t
Inept councils like Nottingham and Brum should not be bailed out. The voters can pay for their choices. But that doesn’t mean councils shouldn’t get more money as a whole.
Then just asked when the last Labour female leader was.
"Andrew Feinstein for Holborn & St Pancras
@andrewfeinstein
Starmer saying he’ll return Bangladeshis to Bangladesh! How can this man claim to be Labour? How can he represent a diverse, inclusive, progressive constituency like Holborn & St. Pancras?"
https://x.com/andrewfeinstein/status/1805967734309581056
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Feinstein
It will go one way or the other, surge in reform and they will take it, or when it comes to ballot day its fizzles to nothing and they are nowhere near.
1) Tories are doomed.
2) Sunak is shit.
3) But somehow no actual hate on Sunak
Maybe it's liberal types a bit scared to go full-on on a PM from an ethnic minority. But I haven't come across anyone seemed angry with him.
He is getting slaughtered by a shit lightweight debater
What a terrible choice
The polls seem pretty clear that 50 is now trending more often than 150. I believe there are a big chunk of voters still unclear how they will vote, so ultimately is a question of do they break to deliver ELE, or do they think "lets give the Tories another go"
And we just don't know. But the more polls we get, the more people answer, the more they slide towards ELE.
is traumatising a whole new generation of programmers.
They will be the ones living in the woods of Idaho in 30 years time, camo'd up and with thousand yard stares by the camp fire light.
HS2 was a fucking terrible decision as just one example. Plus he has no idea how the benefits system works despite being chancellor.
The Russian plantation of then place had been generations before, just like the plantations in Ulster.
Unlike Ireland though it wasn't Ukranians evicted by the Russian plantations but Tatars.
Granted very very small sub sample but people without and agenda.
I can multitask.
Typical BBC accuracy.
That woman on BBC1 just nailed how shit men are.