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It’s not getting any better for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,635
    Labour run Nottingham City Council is on the verge of bankruptcy what will you do to reverse Councils going bankrupt

    SKS Sweet FA
    Sunak same as SKS

    What an intellectually bankrupt GE we are having with these 2 Parties
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,273
    Though it wasn't Sunak that made Starmer squirm tonight after Starmer criticised Sunak for getting behind Truss when she became PM.

    Mishal Husain wins applause for pointing out to Starmer: "You know what it's like to fall in behind a leader of a party"

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/1806053807735849155
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415
    Is Sunak able to make any argument other than "DO NOT SURRENDER, RIGHT, YOUR TAXES, RIGHT, TO LABOUR, RIGHT?"
  • Labour run Nottingham City Council is on the verge of bankruptcy what will you do to reverse Councils going bankrupt

    SKS Sweet FA
    Sunak same as SKS

    What an intellectually bankrupt GE we are having with these 2 Parties

    Does that mean they will stop charging council tax?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,567
    pigeon said:

    Determined Georgia still 1-0 up against Portugal over on ITV. If you can't stand any more of this "debate" nonsense then you could do worse.

    Half-time - still 1-0 to Georgia!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,635
    Sunak goes full out loony right

    No surrender to the SKS
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,180
    boulay said:

    Forensic lawyer, crushing with arguments and delivery all comers.

    Or accountant caught in the headlights as his tax scheme falls apart.

    The Post Office had lots of lawyers. I bet they thought they were 'forensic' when they won all their cases... ;)
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    The best barrister in the world, smashing arguments forensically.
  • Sunak's very feisty tonight.

    Shit or bust.
    That's right.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,775
    AlsoLei said:

    Is Sunak able to make any argument other than "DO NOT SURRENDER, RIGHT, YOUR TAXES, RIGHT, TO LABOUR, RIGHT?"

    It would actually be interesting to have a debate on how to solve local government funding. Literally no proposals about a long-term solution, e.g. to business rates.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,449

    Sunak has no other card to play than this. ELE is here. So he is coming out of the blocks swinging, saying literally anything he thinks may resonate. Anything. However absurd the point or how ranty the tone.

    Whatever the question:

    TAX! TAX! TAX!
    Though under Sunaks plans taxes are going up as a percentage of GDP for the next 4 years.

    Both party's are not being straight on tax, and anyone with a brain knows it.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 651
    How is it that Starmer has to answer the questions put to him by the moderator but Sunak just speaks over her until she drops it
  • James_MJames_M Posts: 103
    The Conservative line seems to be "Don't surrender your (fill gap) to Keir Starmer". Wonder how it was constructed. Polling insights?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,776

    Sunak's very feisty tonight.

    Shit or bust.
    That's right.
    Surely it is Shit AND Bust
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,565

    pigeon said:

    Determined Georgia still 1-0 up against Portugal over on ITV. If you can't stand any more of this "debate" nonsense then you could do worse.

    Half-time - still 1-0 to Georgia!
    It's not going to change during half-time, is it Sunil?
  • Foxy said:

    Sunak has no other card to play than this. ELE is here. So he is coming out of the blocks swinging, saying literally anything he thinks may resonate. Anything. However absurd the point or how ranty the tone.

    Whatever the question:

    TAX! TAX! TAX!
    Though under Sunaks plans taxes are going up as a percentage of GDP for the next 4 years.

    Both party's are not being straight on tax, and anyone with a brain knows it.
    Absolutely. They believe we are all morons. We are not.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,942
    Just objectively, this is an excellent debate performance by Rishi Sunak.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,150
    edited June 26

    Labour run Nottingham City Council is on the verge of bankruptcy what will you do to reverse Councils going bankrupt

    SKS Sweet FA
    Sunak same as SKS

    What an intellectually bankrupt GE we are having with these 2 Parties

    Why should taxpayers in the country bail out councils, whatever their politics, who have gone bankrupt through their own ineptitude. Fuck them. The council tax payers voted them in, they can live with the consequences of that.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,635
    Are you 2 the best we have got to lead our great Country

    Sunak - i am turning stuff round trust my plan don't surrender to SKS Labour
    SKS I worked in Northern Ireland and the CPS

    Questioners point proven
  • Incidentally, this debate is exactly the thing responsible for the drop in both Labour and Tory poll ratings. I have been told by so many people that they utterly hate the spectacle to two people petulantly arguing with each other and not answering the question...

    I agree with that. Define the policies and answer the questions.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,150

    pigeon said:

    Determined Georgia still 1-0 up against Portugal over on ITV. If you can't stand any more of this "debate" nonsense then you could do worse.

    Half-time - still 1-0 to Georgia!
    Georgia on my mind.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,776
    OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.

    Two scenarios:
    1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
    2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415

    Sunak's very feisty tonight.

    Shit or bust.
    That's right.
    Or, as Sunak would have it: Right, that's, right, right? Actually, right, right.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,867

    Labour run Nottingham City Council is on the verge of bankruptcy what will you do to reverse Councils going bankrupt

    SKS Sweet FA
    Sunak same as SKS

    What an intellectually bankrupt GE we are having with these 2 Parties

    Why not a consortium of Derby, Leicester and Sheffield to take it over and replace it with Derby East, Leicester North and Sheffield South? Nobody would miss it!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,775

    Are you 2 the best we have got to lead our great Country

    Sunak - i am turning stuff round trust my plan don't surrender to SKS Labour
    SKS I worked in Northern Ireland and the CPS

    Questioners point proven

    I’m trying to think how you’d answer this with more humility…

    “Sorry, but we’re what you’ve got” :D
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 877
    James_M said:

    The Conservative line seems to be "Don't surrender your (fill gap) to Keir Starmer". Wonder how it was constructed. Polling insights?

    I'm going to vote for him, but didn't realise I'd be surrendering my gap to be filled by Keir Starmer
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    edited June 26
    kinabalu said:

    Just objectively, this is an excellent debate performance by Rishi Sunak.

    He’s making Starmer look like he’s defending a rubbish record. He’s much more punchy and dynamic and Starmer look like Penfold from dangermouse.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,278

    If we'd had this Sunak from the start of the campaign, the Tories would be in a very different position today, a week out from polling day

    https://x.com/PeterOuld/status/1806053252300996855

    True. He has nothing to loose now.
    ‘Nothing too loose’ is what he tells his tailor.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,567

    pigeon said:

    Determined Georgia still 1-0 up against Portugal over on ITV. If you can't stand any more of this "debate" nonsense then you could do worse.

    Half-time - still 1-0 to Georgia!
    It's not going to change during half-time, is it Sunil?
    Second half just started.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,567
    BTW I haven't watched ANY of the debate so far :lol:
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,150

    Are you 2 the best we have got to lead our great Country

    Sunak - i am turning stuff round trust my plan don't surrender to SKS Labour
    SKS I worked in Northern Ireland and the CPS

    Questioners point proven

    Really good question and , I agree, the answers prove the point.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,776
    AlsoLei said:

    Sunak's very feisty tonight.

    Shit or bust.
    That's right.
    Or, as Sunak would have it: Right, that's, right, right? Actually, right, right.
    Right
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,553
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Fuxsake.

    Vanilla - the only thing in the known universe more useless than the Department for Education.

    I disagree. The Perl programming language would give it a run for its money. The only "write once, never edit" language known.
    Perl was write once, make sure it works and then never ever go near it again.

    I remember a Perl expert writing what should have been a 200 line script in a single completely and utterly unreadable line, assembler was easier to read and follow...
    It was a thing amongst Perl programmers. They took a perverse delight in writing unreadable code.
    Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
    Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
    Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook.
    Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
    Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook?
    Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
    Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
    Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
    Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook.
    Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook.
    Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
    Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook.
    Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
    Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook.
    Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
    Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook.
    Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook!
    Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook.

    is valid code in the ook language just saying
    You gone librarian poo?
    The important bit is that while you trust Zathras code., You should never trust Zathras code. And as for *Zathras* code..... don't even go there.

    I still have the T shirt with unlimited key length RSA in Perl as a bar code. Which technically makes it software and in turn makes it a munition in various countries.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,106
    edited June 26

    OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.

    Two scenarios:
    1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
    2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong

    Or maybe it's just British politeness. Tory canvassers in 1997 said people were nicer to them than in 1992, but it was because they'd already given up on them, not because they were going to vote for them.
  • Sunak doing well tonight. Where has he been?
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 651
    kinabalu said:

    Just objectively, this is an excellent debate performance by Rishi Sunak.

    Excellent in the sense that Trump is an excellent debater. I find the way he’s been allowed to talk over Starmer and avoid any questions from the moderator disgusting but I’m not naive enough to think that it’s not working this evening.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,635
    Taz said:

    What a great question.

    Labour run Nottingham City Council is on the verge of bankruptcy what will you do to reverse Councils going bankrupt

    SKS Sweet FA
    Sunak same as SKS

    What an intellectually bankrupt GE we are having with these 2 Parties

    Why should taxpayers in the country bail out councils, whatever their politics, who have gone bankrupt through their own ineptitude. Fuck them. The council tax payers voted them in, they can live with the consequences of that.
    Well with current National Policies towards LG the majority of Councils including the well run ones will be bankrupt.
    Not all Councils are inept but even the best ones cant cope with additional cuts after 14 yrs of the same.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Fuxsake.

    Vanilla - the only thing in the known universe more useless than the Department for Education.

    I disagree. The Perl programming language would give it a run for its money. The only "write once, never edit" language known.
    Perl was write once, make sure it works and then never ever go near it again.

    I remember a Perl expert writing what should have been a 200 line script in a single completely and utterly unreadable line, assembler was easier to read and follow...
    You think that's bad? I once had to port over a major codebase - on my own - from a third party company. Lots of the 'code' was written in the C preprocessor. A header file of a few lines became hundreds of K of preprocessor output.

    Try finding a bug in that. If you ever thought Macromedia Flash was an awful buggy hellhole, I'd like to introduce you to the Macromedia Shockwave sourcecode.

    (Weeps gently in the background)
    PB.com Programmers Bragging
    Not really bragging... in need of counselling.

    From memory (and it was thankfully over 25 years ago...) version 4 had MIN and MAX macros. Which returned true if the given was larger or smaller, as you would expect.

    In V5, the MIN and MAX macro operands had been reversed; as had all the places the macros were used.

    In V6, they were back to how they were in V4.

    That, ladies and gentlemen, is Quality Coding...
    I know, I couldn't think of a better B than bragging (didn't feel like BS was appropriate).

    Anyway, as an 80s Cobol programmer who moved on to design and project management by 1990, I am somewhat in awe of you guys with your C, you Perl and your Smalltalk war-wounds.

    Still at least I learnt to spell 'environment' properly - Cobol had that going for it at least.
    Ah.... COBOL. I coded in it for 2 years. I actually liked it.

    Although I moved on from C, its influence is everywhere and I have stayed within the "C" family of languages with Java, Javascript, PHP and the like.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,867

    OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.

    Two scenarios:
    1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
    2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong

    1) seems more likely.
  • Here we go! criticise! And avoid answering the question.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,617
    This would be a good debate performance by Sunak if he was Leader of the Opposition

    He’s not. It just doesn’t work. He’s got 14 years of Tory governance to defend, and he can’t
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,775
    Huh, putting women first?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    ohnotnow said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Fuxsake.

    Vanilla - the only thing in the known universe more useless than the Department for Education.

    I disagree. The Perl programming language would give it a run for its money. The only "write once, never edit" language known.
    Perl was write once, make sure it works and then never ever go near it again.

    I remember a Perl expert writing what should have been a 200 line script in a single completely and utterly unreadable line, assembler was easier to read and follow...
    You think that's bad? I once had to port over a major codebase - on my own - from a third party company. Lots of the 'code' was written in the C preprocessor. A header file of a few lines became hundreds of K of preprocessor output.

    Try finding a bug in that. If you ever thought Macromedia Flash was an awful buggy hellhole, I'd like to introduce you to the Macromedia Shockwave sourcecode.

    (Weeps gently in the background)
    PB.com Programmers Bragging
    Not really bragging... in need of counselling.

    From memory (and it was thankfully over 25 years ago...) version 4 had MIN and MAX macros. Which returned true if the given was larger or smaller, as you would expect.

    In V5, the MIN and MAX macro operands had been reversed; as had all the places the macros were used.

    In V6, they were back to how they were in V4.

    That, ladies and gentlemen, is Quality Coding...
    What about

    #define FOUR 5

    That sort of thing triggers so many mental hiccups when reading code
    Now you've triggered my operator overloading PTSD.
    No C++ please!
  • OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.

    Two scenarios:
    1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
    2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong

    Yes.the 50 seat for the Tories argument is wearing thin now.150 seats will be better than nothing.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,193
    kinabalu said:

    Just objectively, this is an excellent debate performance by Rishi Sunak.

    Agreed. Whatever else you think of him, he knows how to debate. He's a class above Starmer on this.
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 174
    According to the MRP for the mirror today my constituency of North Cotswolds is going Reform
  • boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    Just objectively, this is an excellent debate performance by Rishi Sunak.

    He’s making Starmer look like he’s defending a rubbish record. He’s much more punchy and dynamic and Starmer look like Penfold from dangermouse.
    I agree.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415

    OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.

    Two scenarios:
    1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
    2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong

    The audience has been selected to be 1/3 Tory, 1/3 Labour, 1/3 undecided, I believe. So they're significantly more Tory than the country as a whole
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 651

    OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.

    Two scenarios:
    1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
    2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong

    1) seems more likely.
    I agree given that we’ve had a gender question, someone who thinks Rishi Sunak did a good job as chancellor and someone who asked why we can’t just close our borders.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,617
    Starmer is - yes - so DULL. It will become an issue soon after he wins, but not before
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,776
    Leon said:

    This would be a good debate performance by Sunak if he was Leader of the Opposition

    He’s not. It just doesn’t work. He’s got 14 years of Tory governance to defend, and he can’t

    Its almost convincing. Almost. Remember the *you had 14 years to come up with a plan* attack on Starmer last time?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,273

    According to the MRP for the mirror today my constituency of North Cotswolds is going Reform

    My sympathies.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Fuxsake.

    Vanilla - the only thing in the known universe more useless than the Department for Education.

    I disagree. The Perl programming language would give it a run for its money. The only "write once, never edit" language known.
    To be fair c was always called a "worn" language write once read never though not as bad as perl or javascript
    I like C. As long as you were careful with using the heap you could do so much with C.

    It's way better than that kiddie toy known as Python
    C is brilliant, and will exist as long as conventional programming does. If you're doing embedded code, it was king. And apparently still is.

    You just need to be so careful with it.
    :+1:
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,776
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    Just objectively, this is an excellent debate performance by Rishi Sunak.

    He’s making Starmer look like he’s defending a rubbish record. He’s much more punchy and dynamic and Starmer look like Penfold from dangermouse.
    Congratulations. Penfold is a perfect name for him.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,150

    Taz said:

    What a great question.

    Labour run Nottingham City Council is on the verge of bankruptcy what will you do to reverse Councils going bankrupt

    SKS Sweet FA
    Sunak same as SKS

    What an intellectually bankrupt GE we are having with these 2 Parties

    Why should taxpayers in the country bail out councils, whatever their politics, who have gone bankrupt through their own ineptitude. Fuck them. The council tax payers voted them in, they can live with the consequences of that.
    Well with current National Policies towards LG the majority of Councils including the well run ones will be bankrupt.
    Not all Councils are inept but even the best ones cant cope with additional cuts after 14 yrs of the same.
    No, but Nottingham was mentioned and they are.

    Inept councils like Nottingham and Brum should not be bailed out. The voters can pay for their choices. But that doesn’t mean councils shouldn’t get more money as a whole.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,635
    Some Trans loony shrieking at SKS's answer
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    Rishi should have just gone full “Starmer doesn’t even know what a woman is so how can he work out how to make the country better for women.”

    Then just asked when the last Labour female leader was.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,278
    edited June 26

    According to the MRP for the mirror today my constituency of North Cotswolds is going Reform

    Isn't that where the Tice household is based?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,441

    Foxy said:

    On a new Russian leader after Putin:

    Yes, a replacement for Putin may be 'worse' for Ukraine and the west than Putin. He may be more competent, more liable to press the big red button, whatever.

    That's a concern. Or a replacement might be 'better' for us; one more willing to work with us, to turn Russia back into a civilised nation.

    Russia's in a pickle. Any new leader would be insecure at first, and will want to secure his position. He could do this by continuing Putin's agenda and winning in Ukraine (difficult), or he could do this by ending the war however he can.

    And my point is this: Putin has painted himself into a corner. He has said a load of shite to the Russian public, and although he can do minor changes, any major ones - like a retreat from Ukraine - would mean the end of his premiership and, by extension, his life.

    An successor may well have more latitude to find an accommodation with Ukraine that Putin could not. He would be, to a certain extent, a fresh sheet. Even if he is also a fresh shit as well.

    My view, having previously lived in Russia and worked with Russians for many years, is that Russia as a society is totally poisoned by nationalism, imperialism and victim complex, and won't get out of this short of a postwar-Germany-style transformation of how the country thinks. Even a light interrogation of the most liberal Muscovite will result in 'yeah but NATO yeah but America took our credit for WWII' after a bit. With this in mind, a new leader would change precisely bollock
    I think the ww2 point is a legitimate one. The russians did much of the heavy lifting during ww2 with deccisive battles at Stalingrad and Kursk and certainly dont get the credit for it in the west.
    Stalingrad and Kursk are on the History Channel all the time.

    What irks certain Russians is that the propaganda versions get dissected.
    Ask the average Brit about the battle of Stalingrad you will get a blank stare
    "But its us that won the war we stood alone against the germans mate"
    The Soviets were on the Nazi side in 39-41 of course.
    So were many Americans.
    Oddly enough, though, they didn't invade Poland.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,106
    edited June 26
    One of the independent candidates in Starmer's constituency.

    "Andrew Feinstein for Holborn & St Pancras
    @andrewfeinstein

    Starmer saying he’ll return Bangladeshis to Bangladesh! How can this man claim to be Labour? How can he represent a diverse, inclusive, progressive constituency like Holborn & St. Pancras?"

    https://x.com/andrewfeinstein/status/1805967734309581056

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Feinstein
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    Just objectively, this is an excellent debate performance by Rishi Sunak.

    He’s making Starmer look like he’s defending a rubbish record. He’s much more punchy and dynamic and Starmer look like Penfold from dangermouse.
    Congratulations. Penfold is a perfect name for him.
    Bin 389?
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 174

    According to the MRP for the mirror today my constituency of North Cotswolds is going Reform

    My sympathies.
    About 70% of the punters in the pub are debating Reform.

    It will go one way or the other, surge in reform and they will take it, or when it comes to ballot day its fizzles to nothing and they are nowhere near.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,553

    OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.

    Two scenarios:
    1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
    2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong

    1) seems more likely.
    From talking to people in the world, it seems that

    1) Tories are doomed.
    2) Sunak is shit.
    3) But somehow no actual hate on Sunak

    Maybe it's liberal types a bit scared to go full-on on a PM from an ethnic minority. But I haven't come across anyone seemed angry with him.
  • It just sounds like lawyer speak. Sorry I am not in the trade.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,273
    Georgia about to get a penalty.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,635
    Good job for SKS that this is the last head to head

    He is getting slaughtered by a shit lightweight debater

    What a terrible choice
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,333
    Penalty to Georgia.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    I want Rishi to offer Starmer a packet of Tunes.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,106

    According to the MRP for the mirror today my constituency of North Cotswolds is going Reform

    Even though it apparently voted Remain and has a LD council. 🤔
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,776

    OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.

    Two scenarios:
    1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
    2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong

    Yes.the 50 seat for the Tories argument is wearing thin now.150 seats will be better than nothing.
    Can you clarify that - not sure if you're arguing that 50 seats is a daft argument or not.

    The polls seem pretty clear that 50 is now trending more often than 150. I believe there are a big chunk of voters still unclear how they will vote, so ultimately is a question of do they break to deliver ELE, or do they think "lets give the Tories another go"

    And we just don't know. But the more polls we get, the more people answer, the more they slide towards ELE.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,449
    Andy_JS said:

    One of the independent candidates in Starmer's constituency.

    "Andrew Feinstein for Holborn & St Pancras
    @andrewfeinstein

    Starmer saying he’ll return Bangladeshis to Bangladesh! How can this man claim to be Labour? How can he represent a diverse, inclusive, progressive constituency like Holborn & St. Pancras?"

    https://x.com/andrewfeinstein/status/1805967734309581056

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Feinstein

    Do you not think illegal immigrants from Bangladesh should be returned?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,567
    Penalty given after VAR check.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,635

    Georgia about to get a penalty.

    This is a Political Betting site and our editor is watching the football FFS
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,553

    ohnotnow said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Fuxsake.

    Vanilla - the only thing in the known universe more useless than the Department for Education.

    I disagree. The Perl programming language would give it a run for its money. The only "write once, never edit" language known.
    Perl was write once, make sure it works and then never ever go near it again.

    I remember a Perl expert writing what should have been a 200 line script in a single completely and utterly unreadable line, assembler was easier to read and follow...
    You think that's bad? I once had to port over a major codebase - on my own - from a third party company. Lots of the 'code' was written in the C preprocessor. A header file of a few lines became hundreds of K of preprocessor output.

    Try finding a bug in that. If you ever thought Macromedia Flash was an awful buggy hellhole, I'd like to introduce you to the Macromedia Shockwave sourcecode.

    (Weeps gently in the background)
    PB.com Programmers Bragging
    Not really bragging... in need of counselling.

    From memory (and it was thankfully over 25 years ago...) version 4 had MIN and MAX macros. Which returned true if the given was larger or smaller, as you would expect.

    In V5, the MIN and MAX macro operands had been reversed; as had all the places the macros were used.

    In V6, they were back to how they were in V4.

    That, ladies and gentlemen, is Quality Coding...
    What about

    #define FOUR 5

    That sort of thing triggers so many mental hiccups when reading code
    Now you've triggered my operator overloading PTSD.
    No C++ please!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_(programming_language_from_Kx_Systems)

    is traumatising a whole new generation of programmers.

    They will be the ones living in the woods of Idaho in 30 years time, camo'd up and with thousand yard stares by the camp fire light.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,567
    2-0 to Georgia!!!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,333
    2-0 Georgia.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,336

    OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.

    Two scenarios:
    1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
    2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong

    1) seems more likely.
    From talking to people in the world, it seems that

    1) Tories are doomed.
    2) Sunak is shit.
    3) But somehow no actual hate on Sunak

    Maybe it's liberal types a bit scared to go full-on on a PM from an ethnic minority. But I haven't come across anyone seemed angry with him.
    I am.

    HS2 was a fucking terrible decision as just one example. Plus he has no idea how the benefits system works despite being chancellor.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited June 26

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    You don't have to be a Putin fan to accept that no one is going to evict him from the six counties oblasts (five in Ukraine plus Transdinistra) any time soon and an armistice with partition, then support to make it stick a la South Korea is better than continuing the slaughter and risking it escalating further, and being of the view that interfering in other countries affairs on sanctimonious moral grounds often disguising vested interests (Ukraine 2014, Libya 2011, Iraq 2003, Afghanistan 2003-2022, Iran 1953 ends up causing far worse problems than the ones they were intended to resolve.

    Remember: invading is usually the easy part.

    And it's the occupation that usually kills you.

    Those Oblasts will be a constant resource drain on the Russian economy, in terms of men and material, and they will produce bugger all tax revenue.

    And all the time, Russia will grow economically weaker. It is utterly dependent on energy exports, and it has completely fucked itself.
    And it is hard to consider but Putin will die. He might be like my dad and think he won't, but he will. And the world will be a better place.
    You are joking?

    Whoever replaces Putin will be far worse (if we are lucky he might be less skilled at the art of politics (unless less skilled in the Kaiser Bill sense).

    One reason Putin went in in 2022 was becsause it was a domestic issue big enough that he might have been vulnerable to hardliners if he didn't.
    And so we get closer to house in the Russia talking points bingo. “Whoever succeeds Putin will be worse!” Tell that to Ukrainians being subjected to all out war and the attempted obliteration of their country and culture.

    Seriously, that is straight from the textbook. And if you follow the history of deposed or naturally dying tyrants, most of the time it’s bogus.

    You can presumably point to some solid indications that if Putin falls, he will be replaced by a nice, moderate pro-Westerner? Or perhaps some case studies of other nasty dictators that the West has toppled recently leading to the establishment of a nice, pro-Western peace-loving democracy? Or do people just keep saying it because it's not a bad best guess?
    That’s Russia’s business, not Tim’s.
    Which was his point, if you didn’t get it.
    If we end up with Libya, except with nukes, that's everyone's business - that is everyone sane's point, in case you're struggling.
    Or 1930s Germany with Nukes.
    That's effectively what we have now you pillock. Putin's already tried his version of annexing the Sudatenland, only with more violence.
    No we don't. Putin is Ruthless, patient, Cold and Calculating. Hitler was a nutter liable to make crazy decisions in a fit of rage if crossed.

    Hitler would probably have nuked Kiev after the Kerch Bridge was attacked.

    Putin is a nutter too, who believes his own garbage and spin.

    A calculating leader would never have made such a horrendous mistake as to invade Ukraine.
    All long term leaders suffer from too many people feeding them bullshit because they think that is what they want to hear.

    In Russia, Ukrainan control of Crimea and Donbass (and the coast to Odesa and Kharkiv is seen by many in the same light as Alsace-Lorraine was with France from 1870 to 1918, a historic monumental wrong crying out to heaven for venegance.

    Putin never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. He has by his actions created a Ukranian nationalist consciousness in places that never had it before, and earned the permanent opposition of Russian speaking Ukranians.

    In very much the same way that British actions over the 1916 Easter rising and the Black and Tans created Nationalist Ireland.
    But doubled down in the six Oblasts Counties.

    Its going to end up with Ulster type partition.

    And yes just as much strong feelings on both sides of that partition.

    Thats just reality.
    It's hard to tell, for obvious reasons, but I doubt that pro-Russian sentiment in Russian-occupied Ukraine is as strong as pro-British sentiment in Northern Ireland.
    Crimea 100% certain pro russian. Think county Down or Antrim if the inhabitants of West Belfast had been sent packing at partition

    Donetsk/Luhansk - Londonderry/Armagh - except the Russians don't control the "Bogside" and "South Armagh"

    The halves of Zaporizhzhia (without) and Kherson (wjthout) they have. Think Tyrone and Fermanagh. Majority "Republican" but hung on to make the place viable (and land bridge to Crimea).

    Maybe they are now. Because most of the Ukrainian population left during the 10 years of war in the Donbas. The war started by covert and not so covert Russian agents.

    There are not parallels between Putin’s power/land/money grab in Ukraine and what happened in Ireland.

    I find your take on this deeply objectionable.
    At most the Ukranian population of Crimea was 20% in 2013. Much the same as Antrim and Down Catholic population in 1918.

    The Russian plantation of then place had been generations before, just like the plantations in Ulster.

    Unlike Ireland though it wasn't Ukranians evicted by the Russian plantations but Tatars.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,635

    Georgia about to get a penalty.

    This is a Political Betting site and our editor is watching the football FFS
    Hopefully there is about to be 2 sending offs over on BBC1
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    Keir is so slick - I imagine it’s from being a top barrister. It’s like watching a male version of “The good wife” in a particularly amazing court scene.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,750

    According to the MRP for the mirror today my constituency of North Cotswolds is going Reform

    That was the Mostly Random Predictions one?
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 174
    Andy_JS said:

    According to the MRP for the mirror today my constituency of North Cotswolds is going Reform

    Even though it apparently voted Remain and has a LD council. 🤔
    Of the dozens of customers in the pub I have spoken to, I've only spoken to 2 voting Lib Dem, 0 voting Labour, everyone else Tory or Reform.

    Granted very very small sub sample but people without and agenda.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,273

    Georgia about to get a penalty.

    This is a Political Betting site and our editor is watching the football FFS
    I am watching both.

    I can multitask.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,567

    Georgia about to get a penalty.

    This is a Political Betting site and our editor is watching the football FFS
    Less boring :lol:
  • 2-0 to Georgia!!!

    The Portuguese will go into depression.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,867
    GOAL - Albania 2-0 Portugal

    Typical BBC accuracy.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,635

    2-0 to Georgia!!!

    Even more one sided contest on BBC1
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,635

    Georgia about to get a penalty.

    This is a Political Betting site and our editor is watching the football FFS
    I am watching both.

    I can multitask.
    No you are a man.

    That woman on BBC1 just nailed how shit men are.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,180

    Georgia about to get a penalty.

    This is a Political Betting site and our editor is watching the football FFS
    I am watching both.

    I can multitask.
    But is it co-operative or Pre-emptive multitasking?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,750

    OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.

    Two scenarios:
    1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
    2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong

    1) seems more likely.
    From talking to people in the world, it seems that

    1) Tories are doomed.
    2) Sunak is shit.
    3) But somehow no actual hate on Sunak

    Maybe it's liberal types a bit scared to go full-on on a PM from an ethnic minority. But I haven't come across anyone seemed angry with him.
    However much damage they’ve done, and however short he’s fallen, most of us can see that he’s been dealt a terrible hand.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,635
    SKS fans please explain why your man is having a 75 minute car crash.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,636
    edited June 26

    Georgia about to get a penalty.

    This is a Political Betting site and our editor is watching the football FFS
    I am watching both.

    I can multitask.
    You are a chameleon? Explains a lot, including your colour taste.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaNzChBiOLM

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,867
    AlsoLei said:

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    Just objectively, this is an excellent debate performance by Rishi Sunak.

    He’s making Starmer look like he’s defending a rubbish record. He’s much more punchy and dynamic and Starmer look like Penfold from dangermouse.
    Congratulations. Penfold is a perfect name for him.
    Bin 389?
    Do you think the Tories will lose that many seats?
  • OK, so the audience is fascinating. Sunak is going down much better than you would expect vs a man leading his party to ELE next week.

    Two scenarios:
    1) The BBC audience is a Tory shambles again again again
    2) All the pollsters are catastrophically wrong

    Yes.the 50 seat for the Tories argument is wearing thin now.150 seats will be better than nothing.
    Can you clarify that - not sure if you're arguing that 50 seats is a daft argument or not.

    The polls seem pretty clear that 50 is now trending more often than 150. I believe there are a big chunk of voters still unclear how they will vote, so ultimately is a question of do they break to deliver ELE, or do they think "lets give the Tories another go"

    And we just don't know. But the more polls we get, the more people answer, the more they slide towards ELE.
    Polls Aside. I believe they will get 150 seats based on the fact that some people will be honest and say who they will vote for. In 200 rural seats I feel that they will retain a minimum of 110 in those counties plus 40 in the rest of the country.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,953
    boulay said:

    I want Rishi to offer Starmer a packet of Tunes.

    Yeah, what happened to those?

    Seemed to have just disappeared from sale.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,776

    SKS fans please explain why your man is having a 75 minute car crash.

    He's too polite. Needs more umph.
  • dixiedean said:

    2-0 Georgia.

    They'll be dancing in the streets of Atlanta.
    STOP. THE. COUNT.

    Very bad people.
This discussion has been closed.